Ep 084 Outdoor Living Design with Jesse of Calimingo Pools for Homeowners

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor LivingPodcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.

(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades ofdesigning and teaching in this
industry, we're here to share ourknowledge, helping you navigate.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.

(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
If you have any questions, ideas, orjust want to be part of the conversation,
if you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.

(01:13):
So we're having Jesse with Callo Poolson today, and I'm gonna read his bio.
His bio reads.
Hi, I'm Jesse Escal.
Founder and CEO of Cal Flamingo Pools.
You may also recognize me from thelast 12 years I was on HDTV, but that
just barely scratches the surfaceof who I am and what I stand for.

(01:36):
I came to the pool industry asa outsider, and so I do things
differently, but there is much moreto tell you in order for you to
understand how callo pools is different.
First, you need to understand how therest of the pool industry operates.
I. This is a little story about howthe pool industry has been operating
since 1950s until now, and that isthe bio that he has on his website.

(02:00):
If you wanna read the wholestory, you can go check it out,
or you can listen to this podcast.
I think you should do, the last one
Jesse, this is Mike Farley from FarleyPool Designs, and we're here with
Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast today.
And just wanted to thank you for being on.
And we just read your bio, so is theresomething you could tell us that's

(02:21):
interesting that wasn't in your bio?
Something interesting?
It depends on what you're askingabout because a lot of people
depending on who you ask, want toknow about how I started the business.
And then somewhat like businessowners have questions about how to
run a business and then homeownershave questions about what the.
Best tile to use or thebest color for plaster is.
So it depends on what you wanna know.
we'll talk about how you got startedhere in a minute, but if there's

(02:42):
something that's interesting in yourhistory, whatever you want to go with,
I don't have a historywith in the pool industry.
As far as my beginnings, Istarted out as a handyman.
So I was just doing whateveranybody asked me to do.
So my first job was a brokenwindow and like I had a doorknob
that needed to be fixed.
And there was like aspatula stuck in a drawer.

(03:04):
I did pull that out.
So this came from yourPenny saver ad, right?
Yeah, exactly.
recently they made a post.
I saw that.
They interviewed me a few weeksago and then they just posted it.
But Yeah, that was from the Penny Saver.
I just never said no to anything.
And eventually somebody asked me to do,I don't know, fix my sprinklers and then,
do these bricks for me and do this turf.
Eventually somebody asked me to buildthem a pool and then the rest is history,

(03:27):
one of the things, 'cause I was listeningto some of your stuff in the past and
you said that, they loved your design andthey really wanted you to do the pool.
how did you happen to create the design?
where did the training or backgroundor the inspiration or come forth from
when you were first doing design work?
I've always been an artist my wholelife and my family is artists so

(03:48):
that just came naturally to me.
When I started the business, it was justout of necessity, like as I mentioned, and
it was just, not saying no to anything.
And eventually when I started doing morelandscaping, then I had all these ideas.
So eventually I started drawing the ideasand showing my designs to the clients.
I would do everything with a pencilon a piece of paper, and then
eventually that was like a biggerpiece of paper, and then a big Ikea

(04:11):
glass table with a lamp under it.
And that was my drafting table.
that's how I got startedwith the design work.
It wasn't pools, it was justlandscaping, hardscape.
Patio covers and,
sketch.
So were you doing scale drawings?
How did you learn to do that?
Or were sketches?
At first it was just gonna
sketches.
Yeah.
And then eventually itwas drafting to scale.
Yeah, for sure.

(04:32):
I mean, I was draftingmy permit sets by hand.
I understand that.
'cause I'm an old guy and I stilldraw by hand that's where I came from.
But, so for timeline, when was this, whenyou're first designing and getting into
the industry and making your own designshow long ago was that, do you think?
All right.
So then I'll just kinda giveyou the elevator pitch of how I
got started in the business andthen what, we'll go from there.

(04:53):
Okay.
I so I started working when I was 12 andthen I dropped outta school when I was 14.
because I had to work 'cause mydad was sick and then my little
brother was a couple years youngerthan me, so he is too young.
So then I started my littlehandyman business when I was 19.
I did work some odd jobs hereand there before that, but
nothing really in construction.
So I really didn't knowhow to do anything.
But I know my buddy was a helperfor this contractor or somebody.

(05:17):
So then he said, golook in the penny saver.
and hit up the contractors in there.
So I did.
And nobody wanted to hire me.
And then I just started gettingdesperate and calling the handymen in
there and said, let me work for you.
So then these guys are usuallyunlicensed and they're usually, to be
honest with you, like drug addicts.
They're trying to get some moneyfor their drugs and 'cause they're
unlicensed a few of them would say,you have to tell me if you're a cop.

(05:37):
'Cause I guess it's illegal that they'redoing this, this one guy, and he is like.
How did you find my number?
You know, I don't have an ad out.
And I'm like, listen, I'm not a cop.
And he goes no, no, no.
it's not that, it's justyou're so resourceful.
you should be doing this.
And he's telling me the ropes,you gotta get some tools.
Here's the tools you're gonna need.
Here's how you sell the job.
Here's what you shouldbe charging and stuff.
And I'm like, listen, 'cause if youlike me so much, why don't you hire me?

(05:58):
And he goes, listen kid, youshould be my boss someday.
He goes, I can tell you're smart.
This is what he's saying to me, right?
So he got me pumped up to do it.
And I called a few more guysand they told me to go to hell.
And then I'm sitting there thinkingabout this guy for a while and I'm
doing the math and I have a couplehundred bucks left in my wallet.
I was paying a guy to crashon his couch $200 a month.
And I said, man, if I spend thismoney Josh will have me kicked

(06:20):
down in the street like that.
And right when I was thinking that I sawthis guy Mark come walking in the door.
'cause I used to pay this guy thatmultiple people would pay this guy
Sean, that crashed around the houseor whatever it was, destitute.
Back then, I was living inStanton, California, and that's
another story for another day.
But right when I was thinkingthat if I spend this money,
I'll wind up back in the street.

(06:41):
This guy Mark comes walkingand the door falls flat on
his face right in front of me.
And then that made my decision easy.
I said, I could either sit here with Markor I could shoot my shot and then spend
this 200 bucks and see what happened.
So I did, I put $30 out in thePenny Saver and then I spent a,
rest of the money on some tools.
and that's how I starteddoing the handyman work.
I didn't have a car either, so my buddy'smom had a minivan that she didn't drive,

(07:04):
and I thought it was broken down andI said, Hey, can I see if I can work
on that broken down minivan and getit to go and I'll pay you, 50 bucks a
week or something to rent it from you.
And she said well, it runs, I'm just tooscared to drive it, so just go take it.
so she was a maid shedidn't speak English.
and she just bought theminivan and just never used it.
it was covered in dust.
So I started it, it ran, I put newfuel in it and then I would have to

(07:28):
put water in it every couple milesin the radiator 'cause it leaked.
But it started me off, it got me going.
and then my first jobwas the job I mentioned.
I went and worked on thisguy's house he was this big.
Giant fat gay guy that washitting on me the whole time.
But he was really funny.
I never forget the guy.
He was hilarious.
Super nice guy.
And he was just floatingaround the pool all day.

(07:50):
Hey, boys, can you fix this?
Can you fix that?
He had a, like a down south sort ofaccent, from back from down south.
But anyhow, so that was my first job.
and then from there it just eventually Ineeded help and I got my buddy to help me.
And that's how I started the business.
So you were doing landscaping and youwere doing drawings, and the guy wanted

(08:10):
a pool, you sketched something out andhe liked it were, would you say your
designs were conventional pool designs?
Or do you look at things at akind of a different perspective?
'cause you didn't start in thepool industry, you were just, Yeah.
Artist,
right?
Yeah, that's a great question.
had no idea the way the pool industryran or what the right thing to do was.

(08:30):
eventually, somebody asked me tobuild a pool and I actually, the first
pool I did, okay his name was Dan.
And Dan.
I had been doing his whole backyard.
He loved everything I was doing Hishouse kinda looked like a hobbit,
lived there, it was a multimilliondollar home in the Huntington Harbor.
and he just loved what I was doing.
and I was drawing everything by hand.
And so then he said, do my pool.

(08:50):
I said, listen, I don't even have alicense, let alone a pool license at all.
So he begged me for months to dohis pool, and I finally caved.
He said, you can do it.
Okay, fine.
I'll do the dang pool.
So here I am doing the pool.
Here's the way the pool worked out sothat we didn't know how to do a pool.
So what we did was we dug it up and thenwhen we did the dig, overbuilt everything.
We overdid it 'cause we didn'tknow what we were doing.

(09:11):
So then the cut was perfectlyshaped like the pool's gonna be.
And then we put in the rebar, andthen we overdid the rebar, when we
go to do the shop Crete I calledmy concrete guy and I said, Hey, I
need to, do the shelf for this pool.
He goes, oh yeah, no big deal.
He goes, you rent the compressor andI'll bring the pipe and the jet, the tip.
And I said, oh, okay.
I didn't know.
So I'm like, okay, great.

(09:33):
Yeah.
Wonderful.
So then he shows up the next day withthis stuff and I rent the compressor.
and we bought some trows at Roseborothat we're like Coved trow, because we
thought that's the way, you look insideof the pool and the pool looks like this
and like that, that's what we thought.
So like, all the edges are bullnosed.
So we thought that's the way, you know,the pool needed to be chalk created.
So then we bought thesespecialized, trs acrylic trs.

(09:56):
we did the shot creed in the poolthe seat in the pool, instead of
doing just like a bench seat, right?
We did a recliner seat with a pitch,with an ergonomic pitch on it, right?
It was like a lounger, the way webuilt the seats in the pool, like
all the whole bench and everything.
It was a spool.
It was like a. Like a spa, like a largespa or, small pool, I guess you would

(10:17):
call it like maybe 12 or 15 feet longby, you know, 10 feet wide or something
like that.
Today's trend you werea trend setter there.
Yeah.
So we did a spool.
and I did it shallow becauselike I overthink things.
I overdid the things.
So I did it really shallow so you couldkind of lay in it, your feet would be
up a little bit and so that it wouldheat up quickly 'cause it was so big.
I didn't want it to takea long time to get hot.

(10:37):
So I perseverated about all these details.
I've always been that way.
When the plaster guy showed up, 'cause Igo, Hey, Ron we got the shot creep done.
Now what do we do about the plaster?
He goes, oh you don't do that 'causeI thought we'd do that ourselves too.
He goes no, you don't do that, thatyou need a plaster guy for that.
Okay, great.
So then he recommended this guyJose, and then Jose come over.
he just told this story the otherday in front of me to his kid.

(10:59):
His son's 27 I think now.
This one, his son was a baby when we met.
And Jose comes in the backyard andhe's telling the story to his son.
And he goes, so I go in the backyardand I see this kid, and he must've
been 17 years old, and I'm like tellingmyself, this kid's not even gonna pay me.
I bet.
But I liked the kid, so I wentand did the job Anyway, Jose
showed up, he's talking about me.
When he showed up and met me he likekinda Yelp out loud like, oh my God.

(11:23):
And we messed something up.
And I was, What did we do?
And he goes you didn't do anything wrong.
It's you overbuilt this thing,you don't even need be anymore.
Because we did the shockand it was perfect, reed's
supposed to be this kind of
rough Yeah.
Rough thing, so he's laughing at us.
He is you don't even need me anymore.
This thing's too good.
He goes need, you didn't needto do that, but it's fine.
You didn't screw it up.
So anyway, he plasterers thepool and it all turned out great.

(11:44):
Like even all my plumbing.
Was oversized pipe.
Like I think even back then Idid two and a half inch pipe and
then I heat molded all the pipes.
So all of the pipe was torched and likeheat molded instead of using elbows.
Because in my mind I think thatlike a joint, like an elbow.
'cause I go to the store andI'm seeing these nineties and I
wanted to create sweeps because Ithought that would impede the flow.

(12:06):
There you go, trendsetting again.
this was 27 years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
'cause I'm 47 now, so Yeah.
Awesome.
About that.
Yeah.
that was my first pool andit overbuilt everything.
It's probably the best pool I ever built,
That's incredible.
how'd you get from, building yourfirst pool to realizing, okay, this
isn't just like a thing, I can do this.
I'm good at this.
one big turning point in thecompanies in my career, I guess

(12:30):
was when I met Diane and Joe.
So Joe calls me somebody recommendedme I go to meet Joe, the husband,
and he was gruff, like very nononsense kind of businessman.
so I meet with him and talkwith him, I don't know, maybe 15
minutes and go through his project.
And then he just, dismissed me.
I left, I was like, man I guessI must have screwed that up.
I don't think he likes me.

(12:50):
And this is like ahigh-end home, probably.
I think back then it was probably a $4million house in Huntington Harbor, I
felt like it was a lost opportunity.
Two weeks later, his wife calls meDiane, and she's totally the opposite.
So she's all, oh my god.
Jesse, I'm so excited to meet you.
When can you come over here?
my husband says, you're a genius.

(13:10):
I can't wait to meet, so I'm like,oh, I didn't think the guy liked me.
So anyway, I go to Meeter.
Those engineer types, they'realways like that, right?
Yeah.
Good poker fish.
So I go over to meet her and she shows methese plans and she's look at these plans.
And she's so proud of these plans.
I go to meet, JoeWake's Joe's wife Diane.

(13:30):
And she shows me these plansand they're very detailed
and she's very proud of them.
And she paid for them.
She paid $20,000 for them.
Oh no.
And this is back, this is a long time ago.
So this was like this, I don't evenremember the guy's name, but it was
some renowned architect in the area.
Somebody that's a big deal.
somebody I aspired tobe like someday, right?
So then she shows me that and I giveher a bid like, oh, gimme a bid for

(13:52):
this, we're excited to work with you.
Okay?
So I give her a bid.
She's sitting there, we're sittingthere looking over the bid and the
plans and she gives me the job.
She goes, okay, you're hired.
I'm excited to work with you.
You're hired.
she says to me, she goes,you're not telling me something.
I think are you notexcited about this project?
Something like that.
I think she sensed something about mydemeanor and I naturally just blurted out.
I said well, I think we can do better.

(14:14):
So then as soon as I said that, it's likeyou know, you left your keys in the car
and you go to close the door and you'relike, I'm leaving my keys in the car.
wanted to put the words back in my mouth.
Right.
It's too late
now.
The way Yeah, because shegoes, really well, that's okay.
She goes, why don't you doyour best and you tell me what
you're thinking and show me.
How much time do you need it?
And she goes, just takeas much time as you want.
As a matter of fact, Ithink that's what she said.

(14:35):
I said, okay gimme a weekand I'll show you something.
She goes, okay, great.
So I'm leaving the house and I'm likehitting myself in the head, you know,
and I'm like, why did you do that?
The job's already sold,
right?
It was gonna be the biggestjob I ever did already.
And now I not only took a crapon this designer who I wish I
could be like someday, so I'mprobably gonna piss him off.

(14:56):
and I potentially could have ruinedthis deal, and I'm also diminishing her
$20,000 expenditure on this person thatshe's so proud of, anyway, so I leave
with my tail between my legs and a fewdays later I'm sitting at Kinko's with
my pencil drawings finished and I'mlike printing them out, copies of them.
And I'm sitting there looking at thisthing, and I'm telling you, I go.

(15:16):
go, man, if these people don't seethat this is so much better than what
they showed me, then they don't knowwhat they're talking about because
I'm convinced this is much better.
So I went back there and Iunraveled the plans for her and
I could have gone either way.
Oh sure.
And she goes, yeah she looked at theplans and she grabbed the other guy's
plans, crushed them up like this andthrows 'em and goes, that's garbage.

(15:41):
This is real artwork.
You have any other ideas?
You let me know.
And basically told me in so manywords is, you got a blank check.
Just let me know what this costs, if youcome up with anything else, you let me
know and so on, so sure enough, yeah Idid the bid and then she hired me right
away and then we started doing the work.
Turns out that Joe was one ofthe owners of freeway insurance.
he was a big deal, bigexecutive owner of the company.

(16:03):
So then we did that job and thenfrom then on, it's a Lebanese family.
the thing about the Lebanese communityis like all of their friends hired me.
All of their family hired me.
They were just handing me around andthen they all like to top each other.
So now I go to this guy's house.
So I go to his cousin's house and hiscousin's you know, I want you to build
something really cool, but whateverit is, I want it be better than Joe.

(16:26):
I understand that.
So I work in Texas and there's a lotof people that feel that way as well.
Yeah.
Family members
and neighbors for sure.
It's a blessing.
Oh yeah.
So that got you started whatwas one of the cool elements
that was on that project?
Just outta curiosity.
Oh man.
so back then I was,doing some crazy stuff.
We do some really cool stuff now, but backthen I was just really avant garde and

(16:47):
just, it was really hard to get me to dothe same thing again on another project
back then, because I got really soughtafter I really got a name for myself in
my own little community of followers.
So I would have these guys call meand we were just doing all high end
work, like you're talking back then,I wouldn't really, I didn't really
talk to anybody unless they had abudget of at least, a quarter million.

(17:10):
Wow.
And that was back a long time ago,
so is this back, around twothou, you know, 2000 Diane?
Yeah.
Maybe 2000.
Yeah, right before the bubble burst.
So like 2005.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Was there like certain features thatyou were doing that was before its
time that no one else was doing?
Because I know on the way here Oh yeah.
My dad was thinking that.

(17:30):
He was like, he heard ' you dosunken fire pits and stuff like that.
But what you say like 15 yearsago or something like that.
So I was
just noticing that you'vebeen doing 'em a long time.
that's something that'sreally popular now.
But you've been incorporatingthat for a long period of time.
When did you start doing that?
20 years ago.
Yeah.
maybe 22 years ago.
22 years ago.
Yeah.
So I don't know anybody else thatwas doing that type of feature in a

(17:53):
residential setting, that long ago.
it's a really cool space.
Why do you like 'em?
I'm just curious about the fire
pits.
Yes, sir.
You've seen 'em before, right?
They're pretty cool, aren't they?
Oh,
I know why I like 'em.
I like it because now you can bedry and interact with somebody
that's wet and you're eye to eyein doing that type situation.
Yeah.
So it gives great interaction with people,especially today, in today's world, a

(18:17):
lot of people like to just to relax andhang out and that type of situation.
It's not about swimming, it'sjust we want to create this space
that we can interact with people.
So I tell people all the time,it's not even about the fire.
Okay.
It's about the set space that's sunken.
The fire's great, three quarters of theyear as well, but there's some times of
the year you may not even turn it on.

(18:38):
that's why I like it.
I was just curious ofwhat you like about 'em
when they're underground like that.
It acts as a wind shear.
So even if it's cold outside orespecially if it's cold outside, people
are gonna wind up down in that fire pit.
And it also, even if nobody wants to goin the pool, 'cause it's too cold, you can
turn that waterfall on and it comes overinto the pit and it has that kinda magical

(18:58):
effect of disappearing into the ground.
'cause we usually have the bottomof the pit's, always gravel,
usually some kind of pebble.
And you can still use youroutdoor space and even your pool
for that matter in the winter.
'cause you still turn the lights on andthe pool, you turn the waterfall on.
So now the pool is like this artisticfeature and now you're sitting down in
the pit in this really comfy seating area.
'cause also the seating, the way we doit is we pitch it, the seat tilts back

(19:21):
and then the, it's a cradling effect.
The seat comes up like this,so you're laying in it, yeah.
with your feet up on the fire.
So Yeah.
one of the features you just mentioned,I know that you did on some, but I
didn't know if you did it on all ofthem, is you actually do where the
water overflows into the fire pit space.
is that something you do commonly?
Or is that Yeah,
we do a ton of them.
Okay.
And so we do a hundred of 'em a year.

(19:43):
The bottom of the sunken fire pitthen becomes your vanishing edge
basin that you just recycle thewater back into the pool with?
Exactly.
Yeah.
So you've gotta get thatbasin to be big enough.
'cause you gotta push the water up.
That water's gotta stand up like aninch, we call it an inch and a half.
Right.
it's an equation that you comeup with for that and that's
how big your basin needs to be.
So that basins, a lot of times, dependingon the size of the pool, it's gonna be,

(20:05):
half to almost the full size of the sunkenpit and then down another four feet.
Okay.
Yeah.
The first sunken pit we did wasactually at that job that I told
you I built my first pool at.
So we did this like retaining wall.
A fireplace against the wall.
And then we did the sunken pitwith a cage over it, and then
like a vine growing over the cage.

(20:25):
So you climbed down in there andyou were down in the sunken pit.
It was cool.
That's
cool.
Like I said, it was like ahobbit, like a hobbit house.
Like
the Shire.
Yeah, kinda.
It really did look like that.
Yeah.
I'll have to send you theaddress so you can look at it.
It's still that way.
That'd be sweet.
I'm wondering 'cause this is verytrendy, like you're ahead of your time
with these trends like 20 years ago.
This is a long time,,
Yeah.
The fire pillars.
The other one was the halo lighting.

(20:46):
I've been calling it Halolighting for, that was just a
way to describe to the clients.
It's like a halo that goesaround, that's what they call
it out here now is Halo lighting.
And that's just something I came up,like we were doing it with rope lighting.
Cause you used to be ableto buy rope lighting.
It was kinda like Christmas lightingand people were using the rope lights
to do Christmas lights on their eaves.
that's what I did.
So then this was 20,whatever, 22 years ago.

(21:09):
And we started, like, when we pouredour concrete coping or the concrete
caps on the walls, we would putin a piece of foam, leave a little
channel, and then we'd jam rope lightand it's an incandescent rope light.
We jam it up in there, in thecap, and then glow down on the
walls, on the retaining walls,garden walls, stuff like that.
On the steps,
yeah.
So one of the things that mentionedwas we were looking is you actually

(21:32):
make a lot of your own precast.
Is that right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So we did, how did that start?
Just outta necessity?
I actually just recently got ridof that company because it just
turned into a big rabbit hole andit took up a lot my bandwidth.
We might do it again, but it'sprobably gonna be a few years
before I go and wanna do that again.
'cause it just takes up a lotof, like I said, bandwidth.
Right.
But we did it because a lot ofthe custom stuff, we still work

(21:54):
with those guys if we want stuff.
I just didn't want to I didn'twanna run and manage the company and
finance it and everything anymore.
So let them make what you needand deal with it separately.
Custom made bowls that are massive,seven foot planter bowl that needs
to be craned in, stuff that we need.
The channel lighting and the caps noother precasts company seems to wanna do.

(22:16):
The moldings that goaround the weeping walls.
We are gonna take a break here for asecond and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we like togo to barbecue bits here we're gonna
share some information of everythingthat you may want to consider in
your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.

(22:37):
Hope you enjoy this.

(28:33):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecuebits that we just featured today, and
we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.
you're working in Southern California.
Most, the lots are typically fairly small,so you've got some really cool features

(28:55):
that you incorporate with a lot of jobs.
And the weeping walls isanother one that I really like.
The work that you've done, you dounique tile work on it, you do all kinds
of, you do a lot of different ones.
So how did that start and how long haveyou been doing that as a feature as well?
Sweeping walls, same thing.
It's one of those things that, all ofthese features like you said, that are

(29:17):
just like now starting to become a thingor just like All of those are things
that I came up with the first few yearsthat I was like doing all the custom work
back when I used to do all the designs.
Because like I said, I would just innovatenew things every time we got a new client.
'cause these are projects thatgo, some of these projects will
last a year and I'm only doingtwo or three projects at a time.

(29:37):
Right.
'Cause I was running 'em all myself.
So I wouldn't even takemore work than that.
This is back when I was glorifyingthe idea of being an artist.
And I didn't care about making money.
I hadn't married my wife yet, soI didn't really, I just wanted
to do my artwork and that's it.
And I wanted to be, I just fancied myselfas this guy who was, like I'm such an
artist that I won't even replicate.
I already did that piece of work.

(29:58):
And now we're gonna do something elseand it's gonna be even better, but
I'm not gonna replicate that again.
So every job would be different.
And that's how you have all thesecrazy things that, even nowadays,
this is stuff we still don't evendo like we started doing wood water
jetting started becoming a thing.
So then like we would take like a black,ubatuba slab of granite and then we would
cut it out like a crazy pattern, and thenwe would do a negative inside of it with

(30:23):
a honey ons, like translucent honey ons.
So then you've got like a patio coverwith archways and everything, like very
sort of Mediterranean looking house, youknow, with this patio cover with archways.
And then the walls for the patio coverhave this scroll work that's in the stone,
and then it's glowing through the stone.
If you can imagine that, like Isaid, I'll send you some pictures.

(30:44):
Yeah.
But
that'd be perfect.
We do, yeah, we do.
So the YouTube that goes out, we, yeah,we add the photographs so People can see
all the things that we're talking about.
it's sort of , the negativecut slabs that we used to do
that with the designs in there.
When Banksy started becoming a big thing,some of the stuff like we used to do the,
like we did a job where it was the Banksybear that was like cut into this slab and

(31:04):
then it's got the glowing through the onyxto show the Banksy bear with the guns.
And then you know, the Banksybear with the guns and then it's
got 50 caliber bullets all theway around the piece of work.
And then that's the backsplash for an outdoor kitchen.
Wow.
Just crazy stuff like that.
Yeah.
We used to do, back in the old days.
Fireballs.
So if you do these big spheres that looklike a nest, it's just a bunch of little

(31:25):
sticks, little steel square not tubes.
They're like square littlerods, like metal rods.
And then we just cut those up inlittle pieces and then we'd lay
them all, you know, it looked likea nest, but it was like a sphere.
So that's a fire cage, a fireball.
It's like fire coming out of that thing.
That's cool.
It's like something outta Troy.
I'm wondering what values did youcarry from like your early life?

(31:49):
' you have a really interestingupr background Yeah.
Background.
But what'd you bring fromthat to your company now?
is there anything specific besides,obviously you're very creative and
that's been there the whole time.
my work ethic.
My dad beat it into my head.
Yeah.
Since I was really small.
Like I remember even when I was likeseven, eight years old, my dad used
to tell me like, whatever you ever do.

(32:10):
Even when I was just working on my littleprojects, like playing with Legos and
stuff like that, he would make sure hegoes, whatever you do, you gotta make sure
that it's like the best that it could be.
and then he would even tell me thingslike when you start working someday, make
sure that everything goes through you.
like, I don't care if you're washingdishes or sweeping floors or anything.
He goes, you figure out a systemto make it more efficient.

(32:30):
Because then if you do that, theneverything will have to go through you.
It'll be forced to go through you.
Yeah.
he said, and I'm telling you since Iwas little, he used to tell me this.
if you do that, you'regonna make a lot of enemies.
Most of the people thereare gonna hate you for it.
'cause most the people there are working.
The company, they're not gonnalike you you're gonna make 'em
look bad, but the right people whoactually matter will notice that.

(32:52):
'cause exceptional people are gonnanotice and another exceptional person,
they're gonna wanna work with you.
Yeah.
I just had it in myhead since I was a kid.
And when I started my business,I had just had that work ethic.
So is that where the efficiency, you'rejust always trying to build on it?
I know with your company now today, youtry to have people that are specialists.

(33:13):
Yeah.
everybody is geared towardstheir strengths of what they do.
One of the things you said wassomething about, estimators and
engineers or certain types of peopleand designers or other types of people.
And so let's have each ofthem work on their strengths.
Is that where that comes from?
Before I met my wife.
Before I got married, I was just,like I said, more of an artist type.

(33:35):
Right?
And then after I met my wife, Imade a promise to her dad, cause we
lived in a $1,300 a month apartment,didn't really have much going on.
I drove a 10-year-old pickup truck.
My wife had a Hyundaithat her dad bought her.
And when I went to go ask her parentsand marry her, I told her dad, I said,
I'm not worth much now, but I promiseyou, if you let me take responsibility
for someday, she'll want for nothing.

(33:55):
It's, I had the guts to say thatridiculous thing to him, right?
So then I just started obsessingover systems and processes and ERP
software and if this, then that,and all the different pathways of
what could happen in production.
And everything from intake todesign to sales design, drafting,
permitting, engineering.

(34:16):
Production, you know, all of it.
So I knew that I had to turn thecompany into a real corporation.
And fortunately I had a friend of minewho had a patio cover company, Southern
California Patios, and my friendKyle is the owner of that company.
And he was also getting interestedin that sort of thing, like standard
operating procedures, ERP software.

(34:37):
And he was dabbling in different sortsof softwares and stuff like that.
And he said, listen, thisis the way of the future.
This is how we're gonnaget our companies to grow.
And he was just obsessive.
He and I both have obsessivepersonalities, so we just took to each
other real well and became really close.
And then he rubbed off on meand almost forced me to do it.
'cause I was like in thethought of I'm the designer.
I'm the guy that theywant, how can I scale that?

(34:59):
I can't scale that Kyle.
And he insisted on it.
And eventually he came to myhouse and made me set it up.
He said, let's pull up Trelloand here's how you're gonna run.
So he just started showing me, he showedme like Trello and like a pipe drive.
And then once I understood how,if this, then that, if this,
then that, then it goes down adomino effect, like a path, right?
And I saw you can design a path forthe business and then follow that path

(35:21):
and know what you're supposed to do.
Then I just started obsessing over that.
fast forward now, many years later ourERP softwares, it's taken years and
years and thousands of hours to build.
And there's multiple differentdepartments in the company, pretty
much all the other pool companies.
I don't know how you guys operate,but they're pretty much all
come from Anthony and Sylvan.
You understand that, right?
Anthony and Sylvan is the oldestcompany that came out in what,
1944 or something like that, or

(35:43):
They're production style.
So
yeah, so like that, pretty muchall of the other pool companies
are the kids of Anthony and Sylvan,like that's where it all came from.
to Anthony and Sylvans credit, likethey designed that whole, system.
The one guy wears eight hats.
Yeah.
it makes sense in a way.
We didn't do it that way becauseI didn't know any better.
I'd never worked for a poolcompany, so I didn't even know

(36:04):
about that until way later.
We were already well established.
like they pioneered the whole like,okay, the same guy goes out, takes
the lead, goes out, meets the client.
Does the design, does the survey,does the design, does the estimating.
sells it makes the contract up.
In some cases, even like obviouslyhe designed and everything,
makes the drafting for the plansand submits it for permits.

(36:25):
And then if you're lucky, hehands it off to a project manager
depending on the size of the company.
But usually that one guywears like eight hats,
right?
No.
So we're like, this company is,our company is, the designers
are, they think with their hearts,they fall in love with the jobs.
an engineer or a drafter or,and or an estimator for that
matter has square minded.
They wanna put their headphones in,throw their hoodie on, and just focus

(36:48):
and just forget about the world around'em and just crunch numbers all day.
And they're happy to do that,salesmen are just like werewolves,
they hunt, they kill, and theywanna move on to the next one.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like Share the kill with the restof the tribe and then go off and
cu more, that's what they wanna do.
So I believe that they each shouldhave their own departments and
be efficient in what they do.
But I'm probably nuts.

(37:08):
I probably don't know what I'm talkingabout because I didn't come from the
industry, so I think I probably ruinedCalifornia for the pool industry.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
At least that's what I was told.
but I had a guy come visit me from oneof the bigger, the biggest pool companies
in the country, and he came visit me andI spent two days with him and he just
told me everything about it and he said,we have meetings about you and we left.
California because of you.

(37:29):
I guess you probably narrow it downnow, but he said because you ruined
California, because now California is soupto nuts every other place in the country.
Here's the pool and the spa.
Yeah.
Maybe you get the deck and then thelandscaper comes in, does everything else.
You don't have to mess with it.
pool shelves are easy.
They're easy to run, they'reeasy to sell, they're easy to,
everything's easy about 'em.
There's no liability hardly at all.

(37:50):
It's very low liability now whatwe do in the, in California.
And now the other buildershave adopted that the last few
years since maybe like covid.
Now these guys are comingand they do everything.
Yeah.
So from soup to nuts.
Yeah.
So I was the weirdo.
I have a degree in landscapearchitecture and so I worked
to Northern California in 85.
I. And started in the landscape businessthere and in 92 moved up the food

(38:14):
chain and became a pool salesperson.
And Sacramento.
I worked from Sacramento toNapa, but the unique thing is
I was the guy that did it all.
I did the landscaping and the arborand the lighting and so people loved it
because usually you had to go throughthe process you're talking about.
And I was a one-stop shop that, couldcontrol the whole environment for them.

(38:38):
Now I worked with different companies.
To facilitate that.
It wasn't under one company.
But I was the bridgebetween all the pieces.
So I understand that concept.
The other thing I understand isthere's things that I'm really good
at and there's stuff I suck at.
I always would go hire someone todo the stuff I was really bad at
because, that's not my strength.

(38:58):
And there's nobody thatcan do all of this.
everybody has a certain partof it that they do really good.
it's great because right now Ihave a team that works with me.
Trey does some parts of the job.
Megan does other parts of the job.
I do some parts of the job we canwork all of it to create something
similar to what you guys do.
Yeah makes a better flow for a client.

(39:19):
Which is ultimately what we'retrying to do is create a,
good situation for the client.
It could be a jacket, alltrades or a master or none.
do you guys incorporate the landscapingas well in, in your process?
I think I saw something about yourwife talking about fruit trees
and stuff on one of your videos.
So anyway, yeah.
We handle everything.
Okay.
Like every stitch of everything.
Yeah.

(39:39):
That's awesome.
The furniture is maybe one of thethings that we don't get into too much.
Yeah.
But as far as the buildYeah we do everything.
Yeah.
Do your designers do the wholedesign, like landscaping included?
Or is there some that might just dopool and some might just do landscaping?
I'm wondering 'cause
there's landscape designers out here thatusually do the landscaping and there's
pool designers that usually do the pools.
But if you do the whole package,that's a lot of creative freedom.

(40:01):
And I would imagine, doingthe whole thing by designer.
So the guys that,
the designers that do.
The whole rendering and everything,don't get involved in picking out plants.
Okay.
But we have the plant nerds thatdeal with dialing in the landscaping.
Yeah.
This plant grows in the shade and thisone grows in the sun and, you gotta
use this here and that type situation.
Yeah.
The initial concept they can do, youguys do 3D modeling with your concepts.

(40:25):
Now
of course, every single oneof them's got a 3D model.
Yeah.
Unless it's for a contractor andthen they hand us a set of plans.
Do you use pool studio?
Is that what y'all use?
SketchUp maybe?
Or
for the most part is Poolstudio and then we use VIP 3D.
Yes.
And then in some cases we use
Lumion.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I do a designchallenge in the industry.

(40:47):
It's called a millionDollar Pool Challenge.
The top five finalists get to go tothe pool show where they present, and
then the class votes on who's the best.
the very first time we did it,there was a student at Oklahoma's
ou and he used Lumion and nobodyhad even seen it in the pool.
And they were all like,wow, that's amazing.
And almost every winter untilthis year then the next guy's

(41:10):
like, I need to learn that too.
So it's a pretty cool program.
I don't like I don't likethe fire though on it.
I think it doesn't look as goodas what pool studios got or VIP.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway.
But yeah.
That's cool that really helps peopleto visualize things, which you guys
do a lot of small spaces, so that mustbe critical to help people understand

(41:30):
how their spaces all go together.
Yeah, it is pretty muchevery single project's.
Gotta get the 3D renderings now.
And yes, we do have a lot of smallspaces out here in Orange County and
especially in LA County, there's alot of small spaces, but occasionally
we've got, an acre or half an acre.
Some of the bigger projects.
Yeah.
So I'm wondering what the efficiency ofyour company on your website you talk

(41:51):
about, the big five draw system that'sobviously been around for a long time.
There's people that are probablylistening that don't even know
that some pool companies chargeevery week or something like that.
So do you want to talk about theexpress program that y'all do
Yeah.
pretty much the wholeindustry has the same way.
it's very rare.
I can't think of another company thatthan us that does progress billing.

(42:11):
Maybe you guys can share what youdo but phase payments is the way
it's always been with everybody.
And back in the old days whenAnthony and Sylvan started, they
had the, a hole in the ground.
Yeah.
As a pool.
It's not even a spa in there,
right.
In the beginning.
So in order to get paid on time,you couldn't just do the work and
then have 'em pay at the end ofthe week because some of these
pools would be done in a week.
They didn't even have all the breaktests and everything we have now.

(42:32):
So they had to get these phase payments.
We dig the hole, give me, 25%, dothe rebar, 25% do the shell, 25%.
Tile, 15% and 10% at the plaster orsomething like that, right there.
Varies a little bit, but that's prettymuch what it's, some guys are 30,
30, 30 and 10 and five or whatever.
But anyhow that's the way it was.
for a long time.
And then in the late nineties nowyou've got all the, waterfalls, outdoor

(42:56):
kitchens, outdoor living rooms, retainingwalls, like all the craziness that
goes along with the pool projects.
Now, they're not even reallypool projects, they're outdoor
living projects, right?
A hundred percent, yes, sir.
So now you've got, half a million orwhatever, a quarter million dollar,
half a million dollar, milliondollar project, and these guys
are still getting paid that way.
They still are charging, we know,because we see the contracts, so they

(43:16):
still go, same thing, 25% at the.
Dig 25% at rebar, 24% atchare, 50% at classroom coping.
And they still have, they've got,75% of the projects still to do and
they've collected 75% of the money.
Right.
There's builders now that we've seen theircontracts where where they 5% discount
if you gimme 90% of the money up front.

(43:37):
Wow.
Yeah.
I don't wanna name names, but theparticular builder I'm talking
about, he's on his fourth company.
Yeah.
he was here, I thinkhe started out in Texas.
Then he came here.
he was in a major franchise.
You can, I'm sure you can guess who thatis, but the biggest franchise in the
pool industry there is, he was there.
he tanked that office.
Then he came out here.

(43:57):
Then he got into this other franchisethat was a local franchise here.
He tanked that.
Then he switched over to his,he's changed the name of that
office now he is a new name.
Okay.
So he is on his third one right now.
Okay.
And I think he's on his way out.
I think he's on his way because whenI started seeing those contracts
for 90%, 5% discount for 90%.
So the stor the idea with thatis and this is probably boring

(44:19):
for anybody who's not in the poolindustry, but these guys have come in.
This is really important for a homeownerunderstand, oh, 100 percentand.
Yeah.
You know why, actually youright now that I think of it.
No, this is so important.
Hopefully they sit and listento this because this is what the
whole industry's all about now.
Because what Covid did is it created abunch of these little guys that are just
and don't get me wrong, a lot of thesepeople are just, and they start out

(44:42):
this way, even the bad ones sometimes,where they're just hardworking, people
that are just trying to make a buck.
So here's what happened.
It's almost trap for them too.
Here's what happens.
These guys, I can dopools, I can do 'em myself.
They start out with their little business.
They take 75% by the shell.
they do four or five of 'em like that.
Now they're cash rich.
They got, a million bucks in the bank andthey feel like they got all this money.

(45:03):
'cause, typ, the old thing withcontractors is, Hey, how's the
contracting business going for you?
Are you doing all right?
He goes I don't know, but I gota million bucks in the bank.
You know, I think I'm doing all right.
Because these guys don't know, typically,they don't really sit there and,
they're usually, a lot of the guysare like me, they're just, high school
dropouts, or in my case, I dropped outin junior high, and don't know how to
read a spreadsheet or a balance sheet,

(45:23):
right?
So they're not, it just feels like youhave a lot of money, but you really
don't, you're really borrowing the money.
Understood.
you're going down the road and as longas you keep digging more holes every
month or every quarter even, you're fine.
You seems like you got all thismoney in the bank, but you're really
not, you're really borrowing it.
So during Covid Perfect storm,stay at home order free money,

(45:43):
the rates were super low.
People were borrowing moneyagainst their houses like crazy.
So it was just like a perfect storm foruh, people to start these pool companies.
Yeah.
The pool industry wetripled in size in a year.
Oh.
It was the
biggest bonanza in the poolindustry ever in history.
Yeah.
It was perfect.
People wanted to be outsideto avoid, getting infected
That was the demand on the industry.
And most people, that's why they failedis they couldn't produce fast enough.

(46:06):
Yeah.
So that was hard.
Let's talk about that.
So here's what happened.
Here.
Are these guys going nuts?
What's signing contracts like crazy.
Oh
yeah.
Sign them up.
Sign them up.
Oh yeah.
My guys, I shut down the businessin the beginning of Covid.
I shut it down.
We turned it into a designfirm, and then I revamped all
my price book to be dynamic.
So my price book's live.
when the vendor changes theirprices it's live on my, books

(46:29):
and I wouldn't restart it.
It took months for us to build it out.
I think it was four months, March,April, may, June, July, August.
We did it almost five months.
And my staff is crying.
Please let us sell, like we need to sell.
Like just sell the designs.
We're not ready to sell the pools yet.
Because I knew, 'cause I was operatingduring 2008 during the housing crash.

(46:51):
Yeah.
So I said, guys, I'm tellingyou, I know what's gonna happen.
This is a bubble.
We'll be ready for it When we'reready to strike, we'll be ready to go.
Like it'll be the right time.
sure enough, what happened was itdrove up the prices of material.
Crazy
right I hedged my bet.
I bought a quarter milliondollars in pool equipment.
So then I had all this stuffstockpiled, and then in August

(47:11):
I opened up the floodgates.
We started selling, except forour pricing was dynamic pricing.
And then we did a it's called amarket price adjustment.
That's what we coined thatphrase, a market price adjustment.
what we would do is we would signthe contract then now you're talking
instead of, a month or two for apermit, now you're waiting 3, 4, 5,
6 months a year for permits, right?
Now it's not crazy to waita year for a permit here.

(47:34):
So what happened was you got six monthsdown the road at least, typically on
average for a permit, and then you'reon the job for another six months.
So you're a year down the road andyour pricing is from pre covid.
A lot of these guys went out of businessbecause they were just like, there's some
of this stuff literally went up 500%.
Oh, yeah.
And they signed a contractwhen it was regular pricing.

(47:55):
So that's we kicked ass, becausewe did dynamic pricing and we
did market price adjustments.
So by the time they got their permit,we would revisit the contract with the
client and go, Hey, here's what it is.
this is your new price for your permit.
or for your project.
Technically we sold them a permit package,and then when they were done getting their

(48:15):
permits, then we would contract yeah.
Then we would sign thecontract for the bills.
And that was huge.
And so then it went from like ourStaffie and really pissed off at
me and thinking I was losing mymind to oh my God, you're a genius.
Thank God you did that.
we're crushing it, that's awesome.
And as a result, we're stillfixing a lot of rotten projects
that these guys took on.
Oh yeah.

(48:36):
There there's a whole slewof projects that are gonna be
coming out of 2020 through 2023for a lot of different reasons.
Yeah.
Because people that were notbuilding that didn't understand
and they didn't overbuild them.
They underbuilt them.
Yeah.
So that's a whole nother story.
But
can we talk about that for a second?
How to avoid that maybe?

(48:56):
Yeah, for sure.
So the trick to that is pretty simple.
You just, if you go on their Yelpand they've got, 20 reviews or
something like their five or 10 or20 reviews, that's probably, they're
probably gonna be pretty new, right?
Okay.
The thing is with a pool companyis we're not a restaurant.
We're not making enchiladas everyfive minutes and we're not gonna
get thousands of reviews a year.
Yeah.
It's really hard for a poolcompany to get reviews.

(49:18):
It takes a long time, six monthsor more to have the whole thing
done from start to finish.
So for us to get a review,it it's a big deal.
So if you see a pool company that'sgot 50 or 60 or a hundred reviews,
or in our case we've got almost200 reviews, that's a big deal.
depends on what you want too.
But if you want a high endproject, look for that.
Right.
it has to be a high end project 'causethere's guys out there that are in the
pool industry and you look at the review.

(49:40):
And it's like, oh, I did a filter clean.
Yeah.
And I repaired the masickaround a pool and that.
Okay.
Now
that's a good point.
Yeah.
So you
That's a good point.
Yeah.
You wanna
look at the quality ofthe review that was done.
I think's,
well, there's a couple, there'sa few things to touch on.
That was one of the things I was gonnapoint out is that you gotta look and see
what type of pool company it is, becausea lot of these guys that have a lot of
reviews, like if they've got more thana hundred reviews, look at the pictures.

(50:02):
Because if it's just like a poolcompany that's a pool maintenance
company and they occasionally builda pool, or they, plaster them or
whatever, that's not your guy.
If you're building a custom pool and youwanna weeping wall or waterfall or sunken
pit or whatever then you need to finda company that actually does all that.
So look at their Instagram and theirYelp and the pictures on Yelp and make
sure that it's what you're looking for,

(50:22):
right?
A hundred percent.
And if they got a good amount of reviews.
The other thing is look at whenthey're established okay, how
long have they been on Yelp?
And then go and look at thecontractor state license board.
If you see, here's another dead giveaway.
If the company's got two years ofreviews and the company says it's
30 years old, because a lot of theseguys, what they did, especially the
guys during covid, is they would justpay the old timers for their license.

(50:45):
These guys are retired, theyfind an inactive license.
Hey, let's reactivate your license.
I'll pay you 10 grand for it, or whatever.
yep, that's
sneaky.
So
yeah.
So they're acting as if they'vebeen around for a long time and they
don't, and you look at their insuranceinformation and their reviews, their
Yelp account or their Google account,and you see it's like pretty new.
Right?
And there's not really a record.
So if you really try and look how,like, how many pictures do they have?

(51:07):
Like you see how establisheda company is, like how many
videos do they have on YouTube?
You could see that it's likerelatively a new company with a super
old license that's a dead giveaway.
Yeah.
Or it's an old guy like me,and I just learned technology.
You've been on YouTube for a while.
Yeah.
10 years.
So
that's, see, there you go.
you've been doing it, if you got 10 yearsof a footprint, that's well established,
especially in the pool industry.

(51:27):
that's really impressive toeven be around for 10 years.
Most of these guys, you look on Yelpand most of them are, a few years old.
Especially just forsocial media companies.
Yeah.
Pool companies are not,that's not an easy business.
Like the thing is, it's extremelyeasy to run it like a scam, but
then there's a longevity problem.
Like there you can only run the Ponzischeme until there's a dip in the market.

(51:48):
then you have to make a decision.
Are you gonna be a real honest person?
And then just regroup and file forchapter 11 and then regroup and try again.
Or are you gonna go to the dark side andgo, I got a million bucks in the bank and
I got, 12 projects that are underground,that are underwater upside down.
Yeah.
If I just keep that money and run and goto another town, I could start over again.

(52:10):
And
I, and that's what these guys do.
Yeah.
And they make that decision togo to the dark side or not, yeah.
So they're jumping back betweenNashville and Dallas and Orange
County and then rotating around again.
That's been going on fora long time, but, yeah.
That's good information for a homeownerto be aware of in the process.
So what's your favorite thing to design?

(52:32):
My, me personally?
Yes, sir.
I like it when they have a nice budgetand I love when a. I still have clients
that just really want to deal with me.
Oh sure.
when a client says, just listen,I just wanna do whatever you wanna
do, got a million bucks or 2 millionbucks or whatever, then I get excited.
it's not really a money thing, becauseit's actually a waste of my time.
And I'd make more money if I don't payattention into a job like that and then

(52:55):
just go off and keep running the business.
But then my art, my artistic side getsturned on and then I get involved.
So I've got a project right now, we'redoing a Shady Canyon that's pretty
high-end project, and I'm super into it.
That's my baby.
I've got another one, actually, I'vegot two projects right now like that.
I got one in San Clementeand one in in Shady Canyon.
And it's got my sauce all over it.
I'm working with the clients andwe're going and picking all the

(53:15):
materials out and all that stuff.
And it's very rare that I do thatanymore, but occasionally, like
maybe a couple projects a year.
I really get involved in like that.
That's cool.
Jesse, if you could for allof it Oh my God is the answer.
All of
it?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
The whole project.
As long as it's fits that criteria.
if a homeowner could or should askyou something but they never do, or
something that's common that homeownersshould ask you, what would that be?

(53:36):
You mean a
common mistakes that I wish they wouldn't,
yeah,
I think the most important things thatclients should really focus on when
they're building their project is don'tscrimp on the planting and the lighting.
'cause it's the last thing.
So a lot of times these clients webuild all the, like some clients
go I want all the fancy detail.
Like, I want the fire cages and Iwant the weeping wall and the sunken

(53:57):
pit and all that stuff, right?
And then they scrimp on at the last.
Phases, the lighting, the planting,the irrigation system, but to get
those plants dialed in, it's likeputting jewelry on the thing, oh yeah.
Oh, and it's like lightingmakes such a difference too.
It does.
And most people enjoy their space at nightmore than they do during the daytime.

(54:17):
The lighting I think is a really keything that and you do some really
nice lighting work on your projects.
I appreciate that.
It's a big deal for us.
Lighting, I think is, huge.
So the plant specimens andthe way you light the plant
specimens are super important.
Even the facets, like how you light uplike a 3D, a tile that's popped out 3D
and then you, like a lot of ar to stuffis 3D and you hit that with an angled B

(54:40):
light and it creates like a silhouettekind of, you know, it's really important.
It's kind like, think about youever been to Restoration Hardware?
Yes.
You guys have one of those in Texas?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So where are you again?
You're up north, right?
We're in Dallas, Fort Worth.
Oh, you're in Texas.
Okay.
So Restoration Harbor, you go in thereand everything's either bei, some
stage of beige or brown or whatever.
Like everything is that, but thelighting is what's the reason they're

(55:01):
so successful really, I think is moretheir lighting even than their furniture,
'cause they're all like running like a2000, it looks like a 2000 Kelvin to me.
So everything's got this really nice glow.
So the lighting's important.
Yeah.
So that's one thing that I thinkthe clients need to focus on.
The plants and the lighting.
What else?
Give it true crime.
We've talked about a lotof crimes already, but is

(55:22):
there a specific true crime?
Well, what
Crimes?
Crimes
committed by contractors or crimescommitted by the homeowners, by the,
now you're talking, here we go.
is that a conversation off the record.
Well, it'd be good for, you know,a homeowner to hear what not to do.
But we were specifically thinking aboutcontractors, but, we can talk about both,
but Yeah, it's up to you.
Yeah.
So if you're gonna do phasepayments, I think you just need to

(55:42):
really do your homework and makesure that the, like us, right?
Like we do hundreds of pools ayear, and we have a great reputation
and there's a lot of reasonsfor us not to burn ourselves.
So the clients really have the leverage.
We're not gonna burn ourselvesfor a hundred thousand dollars.
So if you're gonna do phase paymentsthen that would be the way to do it.
Other than that, if you're dealing witha new contractor, like somebody that's

(56:04):
just Joe, Bob and his cousin and their oldpickup truck, then you should probably do
phase payments every week because you'rejust setting these people up for failure.
'cause you give 'em all this money upfront and if they, even if they have
the best intentions and they windup spending all your money to build
this thing, maybe they undersold it.
Some of these guys are40% cheaper than me.
no, they can't.
Yeah.
I'm sorry to interrupt, but that wasalso something on your your website.

(56:26):
You said when you started out, youwere underselling a lot of this stuff
and you were finishing it no matterwhat, just out of the, the art.
But yeah, that's a huge point.
Yeah.
absolutely.
I just barely scraped by and we alwaysdid face sorry, not face families.
We did progress billing, so wejust charged the client based
on what we did every week.
there's a lot of people that aredoing large projects that do cost
plus and they're doing cost plusand they're billing it every week,

(56:49):
and that's a fair way to do it.
But there's some peoplethat do it by phase.
But I think a lot of 'em break thephases up into a lot smaller pieces now
because, you've got everything, like yousaid earlier, from, an outdoor kitchen
to, all these different componentsthat you may have in the project.
So it may be broken into smaller piecesbecause the client doesn't want to give

(57:10):
you a check when you dig the pool for.
$450,000 just 'cause you dug a pool.
it, they're all different.
I think how some people do it,at least here in Texas, it's
a little bit different, but
it's, yeah.
I think you guys mostly, do you guys dothe phase payments though too, right?
Like That's mainly whatyou guys do out there?
Mostly, but the phases are broke up.
It's not like just four or five.

(57:31):
There might be like eight ornine, it's depending on the
components of the job, yeah.
But you guys are getting prepaid, right?
We get a deposit that's justfive or 10% so to get Yeah, but
it's ahead of what?
You're not putting the work outand then you're not the bank.
Right?
We are not the bank.
So we work and then we ask for thedraw after it's been completed.
Which is true.

(57:51):
Oh, so you are the bank?
That's what I call being the bank.
Yeah.
Okay.
Sorry.
You're loaning the money.
Yes.
We do the work and thenwe ask for the money.
a lot of companies aren't that way.
it's funny when you said yes and we needto check before we plaster the pool.
'Cause there's a lot of peoplethat, they're like, get that run.
We gotta have the money and then they runout the door and don't finish the project.

(58:12):
' cause there's all kinds ofstuff on a punch list, oh, yeah.
So anyway,
yeah.
I'm, I have really strongbeliefs about that sort of thing.
About when to collect the moneyfrom the clients and how, and what,
yeah.
So we got one right recently, I reallydon't taking these, but we don't
really have the time to take 'em,but we had a client recently that was
really nice and was very complimentary.
She said all the right things toget us to do the work with her.

(58:34):
so she's got this sunken pit most,a lot of people screw those up.
So you got this sunken pit.
Then you got the pool water thatcomes into the sunken pit, right?
Like a waterfall.
Yeah.
These guys did a couple of themost obvious mistakes that people
make with these sunken pits.
So one thing they did wasthe basin was too small.
So if the pump iscavitating the whole time.

(58:56):
Oh yeah.
So then they're telling the homeownerlisten, if you want this thing to work
properly, you gotta stick a hose in it andlet it run until it starts coming over.
Yeah, the hose feature.
Yeah, the hose feature.
Exactly.
if you run the hose in it for halfan hour or whatever, like maybe an
hour it'll eventually start working.
Yeah.
It'll work until you turn it off.
exactly.
Overflow.
Yeah.
So anyway that's one thing.

(59:17):
The other thing they did, this is anothersuper common thing, is here's the pool and
then the spa is in the pool, obviously.
But the spa is right up to the bond beam.
It's sharing the bondbeam of the sunken pit.
it's like inside the pool, right?
So the wall of the pool and thespa is like touching each other.
They're essentially the same wall.
So in order for the waterfall tocome over and the sunken pit to

(59:39):
work, it's taking water from thespa and the pool at the same time.
So if you have, that's not gonna work.
The, you can never use their spaand have your weeping wall working.
Right.
Because they would both come over and mixthe water between the pool and the spa.
They both mix.
And you would never, you could neverhave a hot spa and use your weeping wall.
Right.
Outdoor pizza oven, is it useless?
Is that upgrade?

(59:59):
No, if you're the type of personthat likes to tinker, then I think
it's an absolutely a win becausethe thing about the outdoor pizza
ovens is it's like a ritual, right?
So you gotta get your whole little,you know, a little teepee going
or a little rack with the woodand you gotta get that right.
And then you get your kindling inthere and this involves, a six pack
of beer at least too, by the way.

(01:00:21):
Oh yeah.
And it takes at least two people.
'Cause the whole point is to sit thereand, the two of you are sitting there
kind of having a conversation andget this thing going and light it,
and then you gotta let the fire go.
That takes at least a beer to do that.
So you got the fire burning really good,and then you start shoving it down into
the pizza oven around inside there andclearing a little path for the pizza.
And then and then you've got your laserout and you're seeing what the temperature

(01:00:42):
of the fire is and, it's a ritual.
So once you get it up to, you know,900 degrees, then you've got this
pizza and sometimes the kids getinvolved and they throw the toppings
on there and that's fun for them.
it's a whole to do, you know?
yeah.
And then you get the pizza, youslide it in there and you throw
the, whatever the flour in there.
And then you throw the pizza ovenin there and then you watch it go

(01:01:02):
and then you can close the doorand then you watch the temperature.
Like it's a whole ritual, like I said.
So
yeah.
Like you're, yes, it makes amazingpizza, but if you're not into sitting
there and doing this whole thingthen it's a waste of your money.
I mean, They look cool.
They do good Paperweight,
they look cool.
but it can be really fun for likeyour friends and your family to go
through the ritual of making a pizza.

(01:01:22):
It's really, and thepizza comes out amazing.
But it's not just pizza though.
You can put like baked, scallopsin there and casseroles and
stuff that you can throw in there.
Cook cookies.
yeah.
Cookies.
Yeah.
what else you got?
Acrylic pool wall, eh, so I thinkthe acrylic pool walls are, cool,
but It's not always the answer.
So sometimes, depending on the style,like the look of the pool, like if you're

(01:01:43):
doing a very sort of traditional lookingbackyard with really nice stone and
whitewash and the opposite of modern, thenyou don't wanna do an acrylic pool while
it just, the stone is gonna look nicer.
But if you're doing a very modern poolthen the acrylic is really cool feature
because you're gonna see the lightingeffects in the bottom of the pool,
especially if you have RGV lights andyou've got a light colored pool bottom.

(01:02:04):
That's another one of your for a mistakethat people make is be careful with the
pool bottom color versus the lighting.
If you have a dark colored pool, you'regonna need three times as many lights.
You could do a light coloredpool, then you, the light refracts
them through the whole pool.
So the acrylic is gonna look nice if youhave a colored pool, if you have colored
pool lights in a white bottom pool.
Yeah, there it looks great.
Oh yeah we got motorized pergolas.

(01:02:24):
I hate those.
I just hate those.
So useless.
I think they're pieces of crap.
I haven't seen a good one yetthat doesn't either malfunction
or break or get stuck it just getsfull of crap and you get, dirty.
It's hard to clean the thing.
That's funny.
'cause there's so many in Californiaand you're based in California.
It's ironic.
I told
my guys, I'm like,don't sell those things.
If somebody really insists on it,go sell it to 'em and then just

(01:02:45):
tell 'em how much you hate it.
Yeah, I don't like 'em.
Putting green, putting
putting, greens are cool, but it's reallymore so because of the turf is cool.
unless you have a really hugeproperty, like a little area
that you don't have to mow.
If your cutting green doubles as yourgreen belt or whatever, then fine.
But.
I wouldn't give up a sportscourt a basketball court
to put in a punting green.
' cause a punting green, you'regonna get over it real quick.

(01:03:06):
'cause if you really golf, the puntinggreen's not gonna do anything for you.
It's true.
Yeah.
Cold plunge.
Cold plunge.
I hate being cold.
Okay.
So I'm the wrong guy to ask.
I think it's a no for me, becauseeven if you like cold plunge,
just buy a damn cold plunge.
because if you're gonna hire us to putin a cold plunge, like it's way more
expensive to have a custom one made.

(01:03:26):
you're talking about a small thing.
So for some of our clients that, justgot so much scratch, they don't know
what to do with it, well then fine.
We incorporate it into the design, but.
put it somewhere and getyourself a steel cold plunge.
It's way cheaper.
It looks cool.
You could stick it anywhere.
And then if you ever get over this thing,you just pull it out and get rid of it.
Yeah.
The only time I see it is when it's forconvenience where you can just put it

(01:03:47):
right next to the spa and it's literally,you can just go from one to the other.
That's the only time.
But like I
said, that's cool, but I just buy one.
Yeah.
Have you ever seen acold plunge by itself?
Like a inground cold plunge?
No hot tub, just cold plunge.
I've never seen that before.
Okay.
cold plunge without a hottub or a cool you mean, or
Yeah, like
a custom made one.
Yeah.
Well,

(01:04:07):
In ground, you see the highend resorts, you'll see that.
Okay.
But there's always, but there's a spa too
yeah, it's a resort too.
Outdoor movie theater.
So I'm getting readyto do one at my house.
We're both, it's gonna take a yearto get the permits, so we've got
a massive 40 foot weeping wall,and then a projector that's gonna
project images onto the waterfall.
that's a thumbs up for me.
I think it's really cool to have Ilike to entertain, have lots of people

(01:04:28):
over, and if you've got some imagesplaying, whether it's music videos
or a movie that people like to watchor something, so the weep people all
can go and you can still see thepicture of the it's the quality
of the video still gonna be good.
Confusion.
I mean, It's not gonna be like ifyou projected it onto a white Yeah.
Movie screen.
But it'll do the trick, forwhat you're trying to do.
It's a cool concept.
Like trust me, if you've got theSuper Bowl going, or let's say

(01:04:50):
you got a UFC fight going andyou've got a couple TVs outside.
Yeah.
And you also have a 40 foot waterfall.
And it's hitting the, because thething is, there's still gonna be
cool, dude, even if it's not perfect.
Oh yeah,
yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So are you gonna use a smoother tile onthat or like an island stone with the, no,
the opposite.
So the thing is with okay, soturbulent water turns white,

(01:05:13):
right?
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
So then, and whitewater refract the light.
So that's why if you've got a waterfall,even if the wall's black and the water's
turning white because it's so bouncy.
'cause it's bouncy all over the wall.
Yeah.
Then you hit that with a RGV lights,the wall's gonna turn the color of the
lights, it's gonna turn purple or blueor red or green or whatever, right?

(01:05:35):
Exactly.
So that's the answer to your question.
I mean, Really it's, I thinkthe 3D tile is is the best.
Okay.
we don't ever do 'em with a flat tile.
It's always a 3D tile.
I just wanted to get your take on it.
That was my take.
But anyway.
Mm-hmm.
done a lot more water walls than me, so
Yeah.
We always put a 3D tile on 'em.
Yeah.
Swim up bar.
How do you feel about that one?
I think they're cool, butpeople really screw those up

(01:05:56):
more than they get 'em, right?
it's rare that you seeone they did it right.
Yeah.
So a lot of times, okay, soI'll give you an example.
So how to do it rightand how to do it wrong.
So most of these things, what is like.
You got the whole pool and everything andlike the way they would just do it and
then a hole where you go down the stairsand then there's just like the bar there,
sometimes there'll be like a refrigeratorand maybe the barbecue's in there, it

(01:06:17):
just looks like a hole in the ground.
So what we do is we'll take ahole, big area of the backyard and
then counter sink the backyard.
So like you've got a whole area that'ssunken down, not just the little 10 foot,
area that you're doing the sunken bit.
it might be, a thousand square feetor whatever that's sunken down and
then the perimeter retaining wall.

(01:06:38):
Is now, whatever, what isthat, 32 inches or whatever.
It's 32 inches I think.
So four steps down boom.
And now that whole area, there'seven like a lawn and everything
and the whole thing's sunken down,
doesn't give you the claustrophobicfeel of your, in a little
bitty, tiny enclosed space.
so if you look at the Cabernet Falls,'cause it sounds like you guys are,
have looked to a lot of my stuff.
So then if you rememberthis project, okay.

(01:06:59):
There's a big curvedpatio cover like this.
It's 25 foot, it looks like a wave.
Yeah.
It's an awesome feature.
do you remember that job?
Oh yeah.
Okay.
There's a guy in Australia.
That was the first time I saw that.
Did that I saw yours.
Yes.
It's spectacular looking.
So that project, Where that waveis like that, then the outdoor
kitchen's under it and it's abig giant round outdoor kitchen.

(01:07:22):
Then one side of the outdoorkitchen is up to the pool and
it looks like you're on grade.
And the pool is raised, right?
So you got this big raised pool, andthen there's a massive waterfall behind
it, like a 50 foot waterfall behind it.
And it's two stories high, remember?
So if you remember that job, it appearslike you're on grade and the pool's
raised, but that's not what it is.
It's actually from the house.

(01:07:43):
You step down into the yardbecause we lowered the yard.
So we lowered the yard, it, two stepsinto the yard, and then, or no, hold on.
Four steps.
It's three steps into the yard,and then another two steps
going into the sunken pit.
but you can't tell.
because the barbecue is all a bar height,and then kitchen table height is the
outside of the bar where people sit.

(01:08:03):
But The steps are hidden.
They're snuck in there.
Like you don't really notice itthat much but it's all actually
countersunk into the backyard.
You tear us a large area.
Yeah.
I'm wondering now how do you feel aboutsub pumps when you're doing drainage
in these sunken areas like that?
I hate sun pumps.
Yeah, me too.
I hate pump.
Okay.
I think you should just use poolpumps, because I don't care what
kind of a pump you get a sump pump.

(01:08:25):
I don't know.
You buy a German sump pump, it'sgonna last a lot longer, but it's
still gonna get full of calcium.
Okay.
It's got airs, but anything that'sgonna be in the air and the water
in the air and the water in the airand the water is gonna have trouble.
Like you're gonna havecalcium build up, you
know?
Yeah.
I like gravity.
Gravity's nice too.
We do a lot of hillside work andso we usually can get gravity
to flow out of our sunken areas.

(01:08:46):
So that's ideally what we try to do.
Ideally, I've heard nightmaresfrom some customers.
Past experiences, but yeah,when a SubT we have a hillside
So we'll do the, sunken area will be ona hillside, so we're using the terracing
of the hillside that we can get thewater out of the sunken, kitchen area
or, the sunken cabana or whatever.

(01:09:07):
that, that's, yeah.
We're blessed with that changesin elevation that we can do that.
And
so you guys have a lotof hillsides in Texas?
Yes.
Quite a bit.
Yeah.
It's one of the things I know my mind.
It's
all flat.
Yeah.
I grew up in Lubbock andthat's what you're thinking of.
But it's one of the things I'm knownfor is doing hillside projects.
Although we had a guy from Atlantaon here the other day, and.
He was talking about 45 feetin a backyard, and I was

(01:09:30):
like, that's a hillside.
I'm usually
45 or more than that.
Yeah.
but yes, we have some pretty goodtopography changes in some parts
of the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
Usually towards the end,Jesse, we ask four questions.
One, my dad he'll ask you the lastone, but I'm curious what your
favorite book, your favorite meal,and your favorite movie is just to
get to know you a little bit better.

(01:09:51):
Geez.
Okay.
My favorite book.
Wow.
What's my favorite book?
you mean like fiction or,
It doesn't matter whatpops into your head.
cause I know favorites change,
Yeah, but I'm gonna be really, I'mgonna sound really boring though.
I have a few different books that I like.
It's hard to pick one.
Oh, the founder.
Okay.
So the McDonald's story?
Yeah.
that one's so good.
I've done that one like three times.

(01:10:11):
And then what's the one that's written?
Can I just say a couple?
Do you mind if I just pick?
Yeah, that's fine.
Okay.
The book the Sam Walton story, theWalmart story, that one's amazing.
I've done that one atleast two or three times.
there's a lot of books I like Traction.
I've read of five times.
Yeah, we've had several people say that.
Yeah that's decent.
lots of business books.
Okay.

(01:10:31):
Like I'm super into just like thepeople's stories and especially
these big companies and how theybecame what they are and stuff.
So a lot of those, and yousaid movie or what'd you say?
Yeah, movie and the meal.
My favorite movie.
Let's see.
There's so many.
I don't wanna say the obvious ones,like everybody says Goodfellas
and godfather and stuff like that.
I recently saw a movie called poorThings that I was really impressed with.

(01:10:53):
I think it's one of the bestmovies I've seen in a long time.
And I was raised in the eightiesand nineties, so I didn't think that
people made real movies anymore.
It's all just like,
oh, it's a new release.
I haven't even heard of it.
Yeah.
It's new and it's really good.
Interesting.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
We'll, to go check it out.
Yeah.
What's the other one?
Go ahead.
Sorry.
Favorite
meal?
My favorite meal.

(01:11:14):
Barbecue.
Oh yeah.
Where do you travel that you enjoy?
Or it could be about inspiration.
I do remember you backpack too.
We we do that.
Yeah.
That was the first time I reached out toyou when you were backpacking last summer.
yeah.
Yeah.
So the Sierras are amazing.
It just looks like it's not even real.
It looks like a fake So I love that.

(01:11:34):
But as far as inspiration fordesign, like just Europe, France,
okay.
Italy, you know, like those placesare just, I don't know for example,
lake Como, So when I first went toLake Como, I'm like, I don't get it.
it's just a, old everywhere.
Everything's old, but I feelstupid saying that because I. After
a two days there I was just well,my point is everything was old.

(01:11:56):
there's no fresh new takes on,how's like a house, structural like
architecture, it's, everything's old.
So then I said, okay it's cool, I get thatit's Italy, but , where's the new energy?
Like where's that?
So the thing about Lake Como that Ihadn't realized until I was there for a
while is that you can't build new stuff.
They hate when you try to build new stuff.
When you take a closer look, a lot ofthe, stuff is restored, but the point

(01:12:21):
is to, even if you're going to restoresomething, to really try your best to
make it look like it's been there forever.
Yeah.
So some of it is restored,but you gotta be very careful
not to really look restored.
Like you'll see maybe they they won'tpaint a house, instead they'll plaster
it, but they'll really burn theplaster so that it looks very modeled.

(01:12:41):
And then instead of restoring thewooden blinds, they won't paint them.
You'd have to like standthem and then re stain them.
Because then it gets, hasthat the richness of the old
wood that's been there, yeah.
So the plaster it gets repaired and theywant the patches to look like patches,
like it's been like repair, patched.
where it's crumbling, like justclean the crumbled mar it's

(01:13:01):
just authentic authenticity
of the space is still retained.
Yeah.
A wealth of age.
Yeah,
yeah.
It's like where there's war all overEurope, and there's signs of war all
over the place, so they're careful.
Like all the 50 caliber bullets thattook out, like some of the statues
and stuff, like at the churches.
And they're just very careful.
Which ones do you fix andwhich ones do you not?

(01:13:21):
And if you're gonna fix this, thencareful not to make it look too
fixed, So just that the charm of likejust Europe, like old world, like
Europe is super interesting to me.
it affects my sort of like thinking.
A lot of my clients want the super moderntricked out, stuff that we were known for.
Yeah.
And I think my personal taste has changedover the years, and we still do that

(01:13:44):
stuff, but I've incorporated some of thosefeatures like fire cages and sunken pits
and stuff like that into this more I guessEuropean more sort of muted effect of,
using like a German smeared stone or likea whitewashed brick or incorporating more
of the wood tones and the softer tones andthe monotone plasters and stuff like that.

(01:14:07):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Lake Cuomo's beautiful.
I love it.
It's like a whole different planet.
Hopefully one day I can go there too.
Highly recommend, butthank you for coming on.
I can't say this enough.
It has been amazing.
Yeah.
I really, yeah.
Appreciate it.
Really appreciate your time.
I'm just curious because Icame from the landscape side.
I've been involved in the poolindustry for a long time, and I try
to meet people and find people thatI really respect their work and

(01:14:30):
that's why I reached out to you.
Do you ever go to the pool showor any of those type of things?
You know
What, it's not for any particular reason,but I just wind up like not having a
chance to, something always comes up.
I've never been to one.
Yeah.
I was trying, there's a lot ofpeople that are like that and
I know that they're very busy.
some people that, they don'tget the opportunity to do that.

(01:14:52):
but I was just curious if I justmissed you or if you actually
did go to those type of things.
But
I've never once been to one.
What it used to be in Vegasit now not there anymore or,
It rotates and actually theinternational show is in Vegas this year.
So it'll be in Vegas insome part of October.
I can't remember the exactdates off the top of my head.

(01:15:13):
But
you know, Yeah, last timethey F1 was there for the
first time when we were there.
Yeah, that was the last time we werein Vegas and we were in Dallas this
last year, and so it rotates around.
Anyway.
But again, I appreciate your time.
I appreciate yourknowledge, your creativity.
Appreciate your stories hopefully wewill get to meet in person sometime
and, i'll share some more, so

(01:15:33):
Sounds good.
Yeah, you boys let me know ifyou ever come to Orange County,
We certainly will.
So thanks again.
You have a good one.
Thanks guys.
Thank you.
Have a good night.
This show is all about helping you becomea better buyer, a better pool owner,
and hopefully you're gonna find someinsights into how to enjoy your pool even
more so how to help your friends, yourfamily, anybody looking to buy a pool in

(01:15:56):
the future or that want to remodel theirbackyard, add an outdoor fireplace, fire
pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
We wanna be that resource for you and, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.

(01:16:18):
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.
I.

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