July 22, 2025 • 57 mins
Join Mike and Trey Farley of Farley Pool Designs in the latest episode of the Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast as they dive deep into creating perfect backyard entertainment spaces. With over 40 years of expertise, they discuss Step 3—entertainment features. Learn how to design with gatherings in mind, whether for intimate hangouts or large crowds. Discover the importance of size and layout for outdoor spaces, the latest trends in built-in versus movable furniture, and the need for precise measurements in planning. From sunken fire pits and fireplaces to TV placements and shade structures, Mike and Trey offer inside tips to transform your backyard into a luxurious retreat. Listen in for practical advice and detailed insights on outdoor kitchen additions and more!
Be sure to listen to the previous steps if you missed them.
Discover more:
https://www.farleypooldesigns.com/ https://www.instagram.com/farleydesigns/ https://www.instagram.com/luxuryoutdoorlivingpodcast/ https://www.instagram.com/poolzila/
00:00 Introduction to Luxury Outdoor Living 01:33 Step Three: Entertainment Essentials 02:02 Designing for Different Gathering Sizes 05:38 Outdoor Furniture and Space Planning 12:22 Fire Features and Safety Considerations 21:31 Heating Solutions for Outdoor Spaces 25:58 Outdoor Living BBQ Bits: Barbecue and Beverage Cooling Solutions 28:06 Serving Shelf and Drink Cooling Tips 28:51 Fire Pit Placement and Seating Arrangements 30:12 Movable Fire Features and City Codes 31:45 Smokeless Fire Pits and Woodburning Options 34:22 Sunken Fire Pits: Design and Drainage 39:01 Outdoor TVs and Audio-Visual Innovations 43:56 Designing Outdoor Structures: Codes and Considerations 55:41 Final Thoughts and Upcoming Topics
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.
(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping you.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.
(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
If you have any questions, ideas, orjust want to be part of the conversation,
if you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.
Mike (01:17):
Good afternoon.
This is Mike Farley fromFarley Pool Designs.
We're hosting Luxury Outdoor LivingPodcast, and we're here for the
homeowner to figure out theirguide to their backyard Oasis.
And we've got a reallycrucial episode here.
We call it step three.
It's a big step.
Step three is an important step.
(01:37):
So step three is goingto cover entertainment.
And in entertainment youneed a great outdoor living
Trey (01:46):
setting.
Yeah.
That's probably one of thefunnest steps, honestly.
'cause everyone likes to entertain.
Mike (01:50):
Yeah.
And it applies to everybody, whether youhave a pool or you don't have a pool.
Yeah.
Or, whatever you're gonna do.
Most
Trey (01:57):
entertaining your friends or family or maybe just you, your spouse.
Yeah, exactly.
Mike (02:02):
Yeah.
which goes to the very first andprobably most critical question
that I ask people, which is, whatis your average size gathering?
Trey (02:11):
Yeah.
Mike (02:11):
And the reason this is important, several years ago, I ask people this all
the time and their answer was a hundred.
Trey (02:20):
That's probably not their average, but their, if you had a
gathering, how many people would it be?
And they automaticallythink about the maximum.
Mike (02:26):
Actually, that's what I thought.
Trey (02:28):
Oh, really?
Well, not that
Mike (02:29):
and not for them.
Trey (02:31):
Oh, that's their average.
That was their average.
Oh wow.
Okay.
That's crazy.
Mike (02:34):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So you're gonna design that space totallydifferent than a typical backyard.
Oh yeah.
Which the average gathering is what,
Trey (02:43):
15 to 10 I'd imagine?
Maybe.
Yeah.
Mike (02:46):
10, 12, 15 people is the average answer that we
get probably 90% of the time.
Yeah.
Some people say two.
Yep.
They're like, we don't entertain.
This is just for me and my spouseand this is our place of tranquility
and peace and we don't need awhole lot of entertainment set up.
Yeah.
And we did that right down theroad at the frame residence.
(03:07):
Yeah.
Beautiful
Trey (03:08):
job.
And do you have people also thatentertain, like you did back when me
and my sisters used to be at y'all'shouse and, you would have just.
Crews of people coming through,there's people that entertain
like, youth groups for instance.
We had that one job and it was likestructured around 50 people for
seating and everything like that.
Mike (03:24):
Yeah.
So this one couple, theyattended a large church.
Yeah.
And they were in a large class andthey would have average gatherings
of a hundred people, on a weekend.
Oh wow.
in their backyard.
you know, You think about it,everything including like walkways and
staircases and just your circulation.
(03:44):
You're setting up for peopleto be all over the place.
And this wasn't like, oh, we'regonna entertain a hundred kids,
like some people with youth groups,but, this is, was a hundred adults.
So the outdoor kitchen areahad to be totally different.
It was one of the only places I'veput two full size grills in and
put in a full size refrigerator.
(04:06):
In the cabana and a dishwasher.
Trey (04:08):
Yeah.
Mike (04:08):
Because, that was their setup.
So you gotta be able to handle thatand where's the catering gonna go
and, all that type of situation.
But most people and the reason thisis an important question to ask
is in your outdoor living space,most people set up their furniture
based on an average gathering.
Trey (04:27):
Yeah.
Mike (04:28):
So you're not gonna set up, 10 lounge chairs if your average
gathering is, 10 to 12 people.
Yeah.
You're not gonna do that
Trey (04:36):
in a situation with that.
You usually where you have a lotmore with a hundred, I'm assuming
you're trying to utilize every spaceto have built-in seating and certain
kind of features where you can siton comfortably to maximize the seat.
Area.
Mike (04:49):
Correct.
that was on a hillside.
And so we set up, the cabana area wasup close to the house elevation, but
then there was some massive steps goingdown to the pool area where people could
gather and then there was seat walls onboth sides so people could sit there.
Yeah.
So it wasn't just to set it up fortables and chairs and lounge chairs
(05:10):
and day beds for a hundred people.
You didn't set up onetable for six either.
Yeah.
You're setting up a, multipleareas that we could set up banquet
tables with eight foot rounds.
You could set people, banquets,tile on two different terraces.
We set it up where there was.
Capability, I think for 10tables that set eight people.
(05:31):
Yeah.
That was a pretty big, situation,when you set up the terrace, you
need to have a certain width forcertain size pieces of furniture.
So probably one of the mostimportant things that I look at
is minimum areas for furniture.
Yeah.
So if we've got a table that sitsfor people, you want a 12 by 12.
(05:52):
Okay.
So you want to be ableto sit at the table.
People can still walk around the table
Trey (05:57):
comfortably without bumping in at anybody, right?
Mike (06:00):
Yeah.
With that situation.
So you have a four foot roundtable, it takes up two feet for
the chairs all the way around, andthen you've got two more feet for
people to walk all the way around.
And so that gives you a 12 by 12.
So if you.
Set it up for six, it's a 12 by 14.
If you set it up foreight, it's a 12 by 18.
(06:21):
Or if you're gonna go to a six footround, then you've gotta have a 14 by 14.
it's just math on how you putthis out and lay this out.
But it's crucial for you to figureout how the patio space works
when you're gonna be entertaining.
Trey (06:37):
Yeah.
The flow of the every, how themovement's gonna be around the job.
Mike (06:40):
So you can look at two lounge chairs.
You need a 10 by 10 chairsare typically six feet.
You want four feet for two people atto pass each other, either in front
of the chairs or behind the chairs,but somewhere around the chairs.
A walkway going one way or the other.
Front walkway's, four feet wide.
But if you got water on one side, like apool or something like that, five's a lot
(07:02):
nicer because now somebody doesn't haveto pass each other's shoulder to shoulder.
And someone gets bumped intothe pool and takes a bath.
Yeah.
But if three people are going downa walkway, you need a six by six.
Those are all things you want tothink about with the economy of scale.
Now, also, if it's massive, just wantmore mass in, so it doesn't seem like
(07:23):
the walkway's a little dinky thingaround some big, massive pool too.
Trey (07:26):
What about furniture?
So actual furniture you buy andthen you can move around as you
please on the square footage, andthen also just built in furniture.
what's the trade off of those two?
Mike (07:36):
built in allows you to work in a smaller space.
Okay?
So when we have a really tightspace, a lot of times we're gonna
do a built in seat along one sidethat the table will slide up to.
Okay?
So now I don't have to havea walkway space behind me.
So it eliminates two feet.
Okay.
Like we did the project over inUniversity Park that had the all turf
(07:59):
that had the table underneath the arbor.
Trey (08:02):
Yeah.
Mike (08:02):
We did built in seating up against the garage so we could sit
there and we could still have the table.
And then there was enough space betweenthe table and the pool for people to
walk comfortably on the turf area.
in small yards.
It's really critical to thinkabout how you're gonna entertain.
And one of the best comments that I'veheard on all the episodes was a comment
(08:24):
that was made is the best way to makeall these pieces work is especially,
to make sure you have all the placesthat the client's going to need.
you have to understand when you'reentertaining, what's the priority.
For some people it's a table.
Yeah.
That they're all gonna die in that.
Yeah.
(08:45):
So that's a critical piece thatyou've gotta put in the, a puzzle.
Some people it's, we want to have loungechairs and they need to be oriented
towards the sun, and so we need thismany, whether it's two or four or six or
whatever they're trying to accommodate.
You gotta have the space for thosepeople to sit in that location.
(09:06):
And it's important.
One of the things as we talk aboutfurniture is, it need to be around when
you're looking at your site analysis,like a lot of people lounge chairs,
they could care less about the sun.
Trey (09:17):
That's true.
Some people you gotta have that onethat you at least can tan in, but yeah.
Yeah.
No, there's some peoplethat don't tan at all.
They just wanna lounge
Mike (09:24):
and a lot of 'em want umbrellas.
Yeah.
They're like, pleasedon't put me in the sun.
Okay, give me shade.
Yeah.
So I can hang out here.
But some people they'recritical about the sun.
And so then you wanna putthem where they're gonna get a
good sunning area in the yard.
So you have to look at the orientationof the sun and shade trees that are
there and all those different things.
(09:46):
Yeah.
So you accommodate it.
Now the table, a lot of times people wantto be under shelter with the table, and
so that may be an existing porch or thatcould be a structure that you're going to
have to create to create a space for them.
Some people want to go sleep.
Okay.
So they want a day bed.
so there's day beds that are swings allkinds of different things that you have.
(10:08):
So you wanna figure out how big a spaceand then how big is that bed gonna be?
We've done some day beds that are, justreally deep benches that you can cuddle
up into in that type of situation.
But we've also done day beds thatare full queen-sized mattresses.
Yeah.
So that's a totallydifferent size situation.
And setup that you're gonna do.
And is that a piece of pre-made furnitureor is this something that you're going
(10:32):
to actually build and create that space?
So there's different swingcompanies that make swings.
There's different companiesthat make furniture.
And there's, whatever youcould construct is whatever's
in your creative environment.
Trey (10:46):
Yeah.
Maybe you don't want a lounge or youjust want a daybed that's, in the water.
So there's the custom thing right there.
Mike (10:51):
Yeah.
with furniture, some people alsowant to have a space, like a bar.
so with the bar, they want to have bar
Trey (10:59):
stools.
Yeah.
When you talking entertainmentfor adults, yeah.
It's the bar.
Mike (11:03):
And some people that's a bar that's in conjunction with a kitchen,
and some people are like, oh, pleasedon't make me sit there in the
smoke and the heat off the kitchen.
I just want a double sided seating area.
that's basically an island Yeah.
That we can sit and hang out on.
And so you have to look at thespace for the island itself.
And one of the critical things that youwanna look at when you do that is you
(11:27):
wanna make sure that you've got somenice overhang with whatever your counter
material is, so people's knees cancomfortably be tucked into that space.
Mm-hmm.
And nine inches is typically aminimum that I look at to do that.
So if you have an overhangon both sides of a structure,
and then you basically have.
(11:48):
an island, you're gonna look atsomething that's probably at least
three feet wide, that you could havebasically, seating on both sides.
And then some people are like, let's buildthis in conjunction with our kitchen.
So let's just do a back splashon the kitchen and then that can
give us some additional seating.
Because a lot of times there'snot somebody that's cooking there.
And it's a great place forme to sit and watch the tv.
Trey (12:10):
Yeah.
And then there's some people that wannabe, wet in the pool at the bar as well.
Mike (12:14):
Swim up bar.
Trey (12:15):
Yep.
Okay.
The wet bar.
Mike (12:17):
Yeah.
We'll touch on that whenwe get to swimming pools.
Okay.
Save it for later.
Save it for later.
But another thing that's really criticalwith people entertaining is the fire.
Trey (12:27):
A lot of fire features, a lot of just fire in general adds
another element to the picture.
Mike (12:32):
Yeah.
a lot of times a fire pit orfireplace is a place to gather.
Yeah.
And so we want to be able to sit there andcomfortably enjoy our interaction today.
And so a fire pit when I grew upis a totally different thing than a
fire pit that we typically see today.
Trey (12:50):
So you're talking about the fire pits that we would see in Colorado.
Or you would make Yeah.
So we Okay.
A ring.
Mike (12:56):
Yeah, we'd make a stone ring and put some wood in it and light it.
And that was the fire pit.
Trey (13:01):
People still do that, you know, there's, there's some people
that are around my age that might,go get some pallets from Walmart
and throw it in their own ring andput some lighter fuel fluid on it.
So that still happens these days,don't, I don't think it doesn't.
Mike (13:13):
Oh I saw something today at Bucky's.
It said this was environmentallyfriendly wood something like that.
And I thought what does that mean?
Is that mean that it's a tree?
Trey (13:24):
Maybe it didn't have any squirrel families in there
when they chopped it down.
I don't
Mike (13:27):
know.
Interesting.
I don't know what that meant.
it wasn't chopped up pallets though, so.
Well, it means
Trey (13:32):
it's environmentally friendly, obviously, whatever that means.
So
Mike (13:36):
most people today want their fire pit.
Not to actually be wood burning.
Yeah.
And that, disappoints some people.
'cause they love thesmell of wood burning.
However, when you're gatheringaround a fire pit and it's wood,
you have to realize 25% of thecrowd is gonna get wiped out.
Or they're gonna get smoked to perfection.
Trey (13:56):
Yeah.
They're gonna smell really bad.
Mike (13:58):
Well, It depends on if you think that smells bad or not.
That's true.
Yeah.
So anyway most people have ahard time sitting around that.
So most of the ones we construct,we actually run gas out there.
And it used to be we'd run gas outso they could light their wood.
And it was like a starter.
So it was easy to start the fire, butmost people today don't want wood.
(14:18):
In fact, most cities don't allow it, justflat out won't allow you to burn wood.
Yeah.
What they're looking for is somethingthat you're just gonna burn the gas with.
And that's going to be,some media that's in there.
And that can be glass, that can beconcrete spheres, that can be your
(14:38):
tumbled lava rock or something like that.
So
Trey (14:41):
Is the reason that the city does that, is because they
want it to be a controlled fire?
Is that the thinking behind it?
Mike (14:47):
I think there's a couple reasons why.
One is there aren't sparksthat's coming off a gas Yeah.
Lit fire.
So the chances of you burning down theneighborhood with that greatly lessen.
Yeah.
And so there's been a lot ofwildfires over the time period.
Oh yeah.
In recent years that, whole cities havegotten just about burned down Yeah.
(15:10):
Because of things getting lit on fire.
the cities basically,don't allow you to do that.
So the, okay.
Burning of the natural gasor sometimes it's propane.
Just a slight note betweenthe two differences.
There is the propane's heavy and settles.
And the gas is light and dissipates.
(15:30):
And so in both cases venting the unitis very critical, but especially for
propane, because if propane settles andbuilds up, then it eventually goes boom.
Yeah.
Which is not a very good situationfor anybody that's involved.
Trey (15:45):
So if you have a propane fire pit that's custom made, you need
to make sure that your vents areas close to the bottom as possible.
So if some reason is left on thatway the propane can leak out of
the the shell of your fire pit.
So the next time you light it.
It doesn't blow up like a bomb.
Mike (16:02):
Yeah.
now some fire pits are manually operated.
In other words, you're gonna go downand you're gonna turn a key, just
like you turn a key in a fireplaceand you'll light that with a lighter.
Yeah.
So that's what's donewith a lot of people.
And a lot of people considerthat just fine because again,
this is a gathering thing.
They're gonna go down there and gather.
(16:24):
So there's no reason to put automaticignition on something like that and
spend thousands of dollars extra.
Trey (16:29):
It's not something, a fire feature you're turning on when
you come home just so you can seeit while you're in the kitchen.
Mike (16:34):
So most people, it's the gather around.
Okay.
Versus what you're talking aboutis a fire feature, not a fire pit.
Yeah.
And a lot of times those are in keypoints on your visuals that you're gonna
look out, which we'll get into whenwe talk about things that look nice.
But for gathering, one of thethings about a fire pit two things.
(16:54):
One is the size of it.
Most residential settings, a fivefoot outside measurement of a
fire pit with a three foot insidemeasurement is a nice size fire pit.
Yeah.
Okay.
You can make 'em a little smaller,but you gotta realize if it's a
three foot inside, the ring offire is even smaller than that.
(17:16):
So you don't have fire all the way outto the edges of the, the situation.
There's a plate that usually has thefire ring in six inches on each side.
So if it's a three foot round, yourfire is now only two feet across.
Trey (17:30):
You know, A lot of people want to know how much heat
is it gonna actually put off.
'cause they hear, oh,so and so had one and.
You know, It looked really nice.
It was expensive, but it'sfor gathering, like you said,
and they want it to be warm.
Mike (17:44):
Depends.
Like in the summer, some peopledon't want it to be warm.
True.
But we'll touch on that in just a second.
But your heat is generated by the media.
Okay.
So you've got, I mentionedthree things a minute ago.
I mentioned glass.
Yep.
I mentioned tumbled, lab, rock, and Imentioned concrete spheres or cannonballs.
Okay.
So the glass is pretty.
Yes.
(18:04):
But it gets everywhere.
Yeah, it does get everywhere.
Especially if kids yes.
But the flames go right through it and theglass doesn't really generate any heat.
Trey (18:13):
Yeah.
It doesn't put any off.
Mike (18:14):
that is going to be the least warm of the different features.
Okay.
So we've done photo shoots before,and when we finished and we
turned off the lava rock, whatdid the lava rock look like?
Trey (18:27):
It was glowing, like it was some magma right next to a volcano.
Mike (18:31):
Yeah.
So really
Trey (18:32):
cool.
Look,
Mike (18:33):
It's glowing and it is generating heat even though there's
no flame there anymore at all.
Trey (18:38):
Yeah.
Make sure the littleBilly doesn't grab that.
Yeah.
So that
Mike (18:41):
would not be a good situation.
So your lava rock will generate some meat.
Now your spheres do the same as well?
Yes.
They generate heat off of it evenafter you turn the flames off.
So those two medias are gonna be warmer.
Trey (18:57):
I think the cannonballs glow a little bit more.
I feel like they hold moreheat than the lava rock might.
Mike (19:02):
A lot of times they're stacked and so that's true in between those areas.
It's colds, it gets reallywarm in that space and
Trey (19:09):
maybe lava rock puts off more heat because there's more mass versus the
cannonballs are more of a aesthetic,
Mike (19:16):
We ought to get a temperature gun and
Trey (19:18):
yeah, I think we need to do a little MythBuster
Mike (19:20):
action.
This is to be some research on it, okay.
if you think that's a good idea, send usa message and let us know what you think.
Okay?
And let us know which oneyou think would be warmer.
you mentioned a couple of things.
A little Billy grabbing the rock.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
there's a couple of thingsthat you're gonna look at.
Some people will actually come inwith a screen around the fire pit
(19:42):
that's a glass or something like that.
Yep.
To prevent someone fromreaching into the fire.
Now you gotta realize theglass is still hot as well.
That's true.
Okay.
But you can't reach in and grab something.
The other thing is the heightof the fire pit is in debate.
My personal opinion is to makean fire pit 18 inches tall as a
(20:06):
total disservice to the homeowner.
Trey (20:08):
Why is that?
Mike (20:08):
Because they're gonna sit on the edge of it.
'cause it's the height of a chair.
That's true.
When you sit on the edge of it,what are you sitting next to?
You're
Trey (20:15):
sitting next to a fire.
Mike (20:16):
You're sitting next to a fire.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's not a real comfortable placeto sit or should you be sitting there?
Yeah.
Okay.
So what I typically do is onlymake the fire pit 12 inches tall.
Okay.
At 12 inches tall, it'snot comfortable to sit on.
Okay.
But it makes a great foot rest.
It does.
(20:36):
Okay.
So you can prop your feet up there.
Okay.
So I'm a fan of neverhaving a fire pit flush.
Mm-hmm.
Just walk into it.
Somebody could just walk right into it.
Okay.
Or trip over it.
Trey (20:48):
Yeah.
Mike (20:48):
My opinion is twelve's a great height, eighteen's a little bit dangerous.
Now another great heightis actually 30 inches.
Trey (20:57):
Okay.
Why so?
tabletop, it's the height of a table.
Mike (21:01):
Okay.
So that's a big feature.
You can basically put an overhangaround it, like it's a bar top.
Yep.
And then people can sit around thatwith chairs and it makes a nice feature.
that's another solution that a lot ofpeople consider as they look at the
height of what their fire pit should be.
Now this is for gathering.
Trey (21:21):
Yes.
And I know you mentioned somethingearlier, I just want to say
something else that you didn'tsay that you might consider.
It's not really a fire featurebut it works in a similar way.
It's a patio heaters, I knowyou said fireplace as well.
But patio heaters, if you thinkabout it, people gather around those.
It's typically underneaththe patio, obviously, but.
Mike (21:40):
Heaters will greatly extend your season.
Yeah.
there's a couple of different heaterelements that you can consider.
There's a couple units that are built in.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So they're built into theceiling of a structure.
And so what you look at is there'san electric option and there's a gas
option of those respective heaters.
(22:02):
There's a number of differentbrands that are out there that you
can consider, but one of the bigconsiderations as you go through this is.
Your utility availability on your project.
Yeah.
I just messed up rurally ona project not too long ago.
Okay.
So one of the things we do is when we'relooking at all these things we're going
(22:24):
to add, we look at the load calc that'savailable for the overall situation.
Yes.
And we had a client that we talkedabout using a gas heater and
then they switched to an electricheater after we did the load calc.
Yeah.
And it was assumed thatsomeone had gone out.
And checked to make sure thatwe still had enough electricity.
(22:47):
I assumed an assistant did it.
They assumed I did it.
Nobody did it.
Yeah.
We did the job.
We went to go out and we'vegot too much electrical.
'cause each one of theseheaters pulls 25 amps.
Yeah.
Over the ampage.
Yeah.
So we were three heaters, 75 amps.
We were over the ampage by over60, and so there was no way we
(23:10):
could get those heaters into place.
Yeah.
So we had to switch back to gas, orthe alternative was a total electrical
service upgrade to the property, whichwas gonna cost over $10,000 to do.
Yeah.
Now some people.
Would consider that and other peoplewould be like, that's ridiculous.
But that's something that youneed to discuss in the beginnings.
(23:34):
Not make the mistake that Idid on that particular project.
Which
Trey (23:38):
with heaters it's in their propane options as well.
Are they not suitable?
Mike (23:42):
off the top of my head, I'm sure that the gas can either
come as natural gas or propane.
Okay.
But you have to decide.
How these are gonna be mounted, the heightabove the ceiling, the ceiling height.
Yeah.
Whether they're gonna be recessed or not.
Some cannot, some can,
Trey (24:02):
some people don't like having natural gas lines everywhere on
their project as well, so that'swhy they might want to do electric,
Mike (24:08):
The whole thing is you have to hide these things.
Yeah.
So that's where, like a full masonrycolumn is a nice feature because you
can run chases up inside of that andhide the plumbing or the electric,
whichever conduit you know you're goingto need, you're gonna need something if
you're putting heaters in the ceiling.
Now some people are gonna use heatersthat are free freestanding units.
(24:28):
There's a real cool looking bro heaterthat is a nice freestanding unit that
you could roll into a space and use it.
I've seen them used in quite a few, placesof hospitality for, serving outside.
Now if you're doing heaters, one thingyou may also want to consider is do we
want to provide some type of screening?
(24:51):
with screening, therefore we can blockthe wind and the space that we're
heating up is going to stay warmer.
The other thing is, if you're doingheaters, most people are going to do
that where they have a solid roof.
Yeah.
Not something that's opened
Trey (25:06):
like a pergola or
Mike (25:07):
something.
Yeah.
So because your heat disis just gonna dissipate up
through that unit of pointless.
Yeah.
Now you could use likea louvered arbor mm-hmm.
type thing, like an Equinoxor Apollo type unit or
Trey (25:19):
put that clear stuff on top.
Mike (25:21):
We could come in and put the clear stuff on top.
Yeah.
I forgot what it's called.
Me too, off the top of my head.
Trey (25:27):
Have you ever heard of heated patios?
Like the actual flooring wherethey have systems where you can
like pretty much built in radiantheating systems underneath like
concrete stone tile pavers.
And it like warms thesurface of the floor.
And it's usually usedin like colder climates.
Mike (25:43):
Certainly it is used in colder climates that some people
will heat sidewalks with that,so Oh yeah, the snow melts off.
So yeah, that's a definite possibility.
It's not done a lot here in the southbecause it's cold for like two months.
It's not that cold for very long.
Yeah.
BBQ Intro (26:01):
We are gonna take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we like togo to barbecue bits here we're gonna
share some information of everythingthat you may want to consider in
your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.
Mike (26:20):
We have a party and some people have large events and when
they have a large event, I meanit could be 25, 30, 40, 50 people.
Right.
And we want to have drinksfor everybody, right.
And so it, standard refrigerator'snot gonna keep pace with that.
Mm-hmm.
So to walk me through this solution.
Bobby (26:40):
We see a lot of people that have drop in coolers.
Uh, a drop in cooler would be whereyou'd put your drinks in and add ice,
and it'll hold for a couple of days.
But this is constant.
This requires a one 10 power.
Uh, it can hold up to108 cans, uh, or bottles.
This is only 24.
They make it two sizes, 24 and 36.
(27:01):
Um, this would build either buildin or you can get a wheel kit.
It can be freestanding.
This is something a lot of youknow about but have not specified.
And, uh, it's began popularity, um,here in our DFW market within the la
within the last two or three years.
Um, and it's a volume server, likeyou said, instead of going inside
(27:23):
and out of the house, you can seetop down, you can put glasses in
there, you can put a wine bottle, awhite wine bottle, or two in there.
It's something that will define youto be different when you specify
versus any of your competition.
Mike (27:35):
Okay,
Bobby (27:36):
so how do we deal with this bottle cap?
Uh, in a built in?
This is a good question.
This is only mounted here for displaypurposes, but we would probably put
it around the end of the cabinets.
What we would do, or up front is what youdo, this would be all of your dema, uh,
your, uh, import, uh, beers that don'thave the spinoff tops or any of your pops
and things like that, or, or soft drinks.
Um.
(27:57):
Cream sodas, things like that.
Specialty drinks.
Mike (27:59):
Okay, so this is gonna be mounted just like you had to do a drop in,
co go off the top of the counter.
So
Bobby (28:05):
it's just reaching.
That's right.
It's gonna be a slide top.
Um, also you can, thisis the serving shelf.
Your finished top can go overthe top of this to hide this.
If it's extremely busy.
You'll see a lot of this in restaurants.
They'll take off the top itselfand it will keep the drinks.
Cool.
If there's constant.
People that are getting inside of it, itwill domicile all the air down in below.
(28:27):
You wanna be careful on the setting ofthis, not to set it down too low with
the top one 'cause it can freeze drinks.
Mike (28:32):
Okay.
Yep.
Awesome.
Yep.
Bobby (28:34):
Pretty cool.
That's a cool detail to consider.
Well, thank you.
Yep.
BBQ End (28:37):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today,
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.
Mike (28:51):
back to the fire pit.
One thing is you wanna leave enough spacearound a fire pit for your furniture.
Again, you're trying to figureout how many people are gonna
sit around this fire pit.
some people do four foot.
Trey (29:05):
Away from the fire or away from the actual fire pit.
Away.
From the fire
Mike (29:09):
pit.
Okay.
Four foot, because thatyou can put a chair there.
Yeah.
I don't like forefoot because itdoesn't give me any flexibility.
Okay.
Now if I'm gonna use a fire pitand it's cold all the time, then
four foot would probably work.
But in Texas it gets hot.
Yeah.
Like now.
Okay.
And some people still are like, I'dlike to go cook out and have, roasted
(29:31):
marshmallows for the 4th of July.
Yeah.
Okay.
But it's plenty hot at that point in time.
So I like to have six foot ofpaving outside of my fire pit
at least so I can move my chair.
Okay.
So in the summer I wanna move twofeet farther away from the fire
so people can walk in front of me.
In the fire pit and I'm fartherdistance away in the wintertime, I
(29:56):
wanna move up close and have themwalk behind me to get to the fire.
So yeah, if I have a five foot outsidefire ring, six feet and six feet, I
need a 17 foot area by 17 foot area,which that's a big area for a fire pit.
And so a lot of people will consider usingan appliance instead of a built in unit.
(30:19):
Okay.
Because with an appliance,they can move it.
now some people are goingto use a unit that's got a
little propane gas tank in it.
Yeah.
And so they can light theirfire feature from that.
And the one thing that also comesinto play is if it's an appliance and
it's movable, generally those don'thave to be approved by the city.
Trey (30:44):
Yeah.
Mike (30:44):
Every city I'm sure is gonna be different.
And this again, fires one ofthe most modified codes that has
occurred in the last five years
Trey (30:53):
naturally.
'cause it's so destructive.
Mike (30:55):
and more and more people are doing things.
And more and more cities are running intoproblems 'cause people do stupid things.
And so they write codes to protectfrom people doing stupid things.
Well,
Trey (31:06):
Taste is getting, a little bit better.
You know, look at what Fire by design.
Yeah.
Everyone's pushing limitsnow, so the industry's growing
and Yeah, that makes sense.
Mike (31:14):
we've used several Luma cast units lately on projects.
And Luma cast makes some modernlooking appliance fire features.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, Some people just go,order something online and get it
delivered and then what happensis they store it off season.
Yeah.
So what happens is now the 17 by17 area could be set up for, hey,
(31:38):
a table that sits eight people or10 people comfortably because the
fire pit's not there in the middle.
Trey (31:45):
Yeah.
And then you have stuff that's like thesmokeless fire pits where you actually use
a wood to burn it or use wood as a fuel.
Yeah.
Mike (31:52):
So then there's the solo stove.
Yeah.
And that type of situation'sgot really popular too.
Is a also a unit that's a portableunit for actually burning wood.
Which doesn't generate a smoke.
Yes.
So there's a lot of smokelessunits that are out there now.
Solo happens to be thebrand of one that I have.
(32:13):
But they're really nice in that aspect.
And then there's some people that arelike, I have to have a Woodburn fire.
A lot of them do a fireplace.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because now we can control the smoke.
Yeah.
Smoke goes up thechimney, it's dissipated.
We're not having a problem with the crowd.
Although from a gatheringstandpoint, you're not gonna put
(32:34):
12 people around a fireplace.
Trey (32:36):
No.
But it can be in an areawhere 12 people are at.
Yeah.
Which I think the fireplace is very key.
'cause it's also, you're adding theelement of, you're maybe able to
put a TV here too, so you know thegrandpa or dad or whoever might be
that you might not really want to.
Associate with the conversations somepeople are having already at a fire pit,
(32:58):
they can chill with everyone and stillhave a good time 'cause they're busy
watching TV or whatever it might be.
And then, you can have a outdoorliving grill area behind them
and someone's cooking up andso yeah it's, very versatile.
Mike (33:10):
the fireplace, the typical scenario is I want a couch in two chairs there.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna sit fivepeople in that space.
Now, a couch, some couches aresix feet by two and a half feet.
But then some couches are eight feet by.
Three to three and a half feet.
So you gotta understand also the scaleof the furniture you might be using.
(33:35):
Yeah.
In the space.
' cause there can be some big massdifferences in just what we're using.
A lot of people with a moremodern is a little more sleek
and clean lines and smaller.
Although I had somebody the otherday, it's like, we want mid-century
modern, but we're not a hilltop.
So we're realistic in the factthat we know our mid-century modern
furniture will blow into the pool.
(33:56):
Yeah.
And so
Trey (33:57):
I was thinking about that job with like a hundred people.
I was just thinking about all thecushions that could be blowing around.
Yeah.
Just chasing 'em down during a storm.
Jeez.
Mike (34:05):
And squirrels would have a field day too, right?
Yeah, yeah.
All those cushions.
What you look at with the fireplaces, howmuch furniture, so some people are like,
I want it big enough for three couches.
To sit around So people can gather.
that's a really cool situation as well.
Although I should probablyback up a second on the fire
pit, 'cause I forgot something.
(34:27):
What'd you forget?
The sunken fire pit?
Yes.
Trey (34:30):
Which typically that's built in seating, which you
can't really push back and forth.
Knowing that distance is probably key.
Mike (34:37):
So usually you're exactly right.
Usually between the fire pit andthe front of the bench is two feet.
Okay.
And I, when I first did that,I was like, that's too tight.
There's no way someone could sit thereand someone could walk around this thing.
Okay.
But you can, yeah.
Okay.
So two feet's, generally thedimension that people have.
(34:57):
Then you have this built in seating.
And so with that you can get alot more people into a space.
You have to figure out howyou're gonna sink this.
The other thing that becomes criticalwith a sunken fire pit is drainage.
Big time.
How do you get the water out of the space?
Because it rains in most places.
Yeah.
And so you have to figure that.
(35:18):
Although I've know some buildersare like it's not that big a deal
'cause it doesn't happen that often.
And every place is different.
Here we try to use gravity as muchas we can and therefore get water out
of the space with a gravity drain orhave it sunken on maybe three sides.
And the fourth side,it's actually a grade.
(35:38):
Which we can do a lot of times.
Some places use sub pumps.
So
Trey (35:42):
with those places that use sub pumps, I would assume they're
making sure that nothing electricis in that area, because worst case
scenario, that becomes a pool, right?
So you don't want to like, not justsunken fire pits, but there's also
sunken cabanas and barbecue areas becausethey're gonna be that poolside bar.
So this, concept appliesto multiple things.
Mike (36:02):
I know in Houston it's flatter a pancake.
Okay?
every place down there, they dopractically, they're not gonna be
able to work with natural gradeto get water out of a sunken area.
Yeah.
And they do sump pumps all the time.
And what you have to understand is aslong as your sump pump is working and
serviceable, then your space is safe.
But when that sump pump fails, if you'vegot electronics like you're talking
(36:26):
about an electronic fire pit, you'vegot a. Refrigerator outlets down there.
Outlets, yeah.
Outlet, refrigerator.
Yeah.
You're gonna get damaged by the water.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So it's just something you haveto understand the risk and reward
if you're looking at a space.
Okay.
Here, because of the way that we haveto topography, a lot of times we can set
it up where we don't have to do that.
(36:48):
That's the reward aspect of itis where there's minimal risk
because we can work with gravity.
Yeah.
Trey (36:54):
We have a
Mike (36:54):
nice canvas.
So your sunken fire pit, you knowyou're gonna be able to put more chairs,
not chairs, butts and seats, benches'cause you're gonna have benches.
Now if you do benches, one thing you wantto consider from that is it's critical to
understand where the cushions are going.
Yes.
Are there cushions goingon the seating portion?
(37:15):
Are there cushions goingon the back portion?
Trey (37:18):
Are you gonna have armrests?
Mike (37:19):
Are you gonna have are you gonna have an armrest?
No, it's gonna be pitched, yeah.
Is there gonna be an angle on theback so it's not straight up and down?
Yeah.
So these are all important thingsthat you have to consider with
a built-in seating aspect of
Trey (37:33):
it.
Also, how deep is theseat gonna be as well?
Like how deep can you get before youcan't even lean back on that thing.
It's pretty much a bed at that point.
Mike (37:42):
Well There's some people that, like we did one that there was a section
that was set up to be like a day bed.
Yep.
But then the interior designerso loved the woodwork that we did
that she decided she didn't wantto cover anything with a cushion.
Trey (37:57):
What a comfy bed.
Mike (37:58):
The daybed area wasn't that comfortable place to hang out
because you're just sitting on wood
Trey (38:04):
unless you like sleeping on the floor, yeah.
Mike (38:06):
Anyway so it's just, there's always form aesthetics versus function
issues that you have to look at tocome up with what's the best situation.
So
Trey (38:15):
you gotta write a book upon that.
Yeah.
Because you, you're a very bigstickler when it comes to that stuff.
Check.
Mike (38:20):
It's just you gotta understand, 'cause I've screwed all these things up
over the years, then you get another layerof, oh, let's make sure we take care of
this 'cause we don't wanna do this again.
The first built-in fire pits that wedid, none of them had tapered backs.
It was just straight up and down.
Yeah.
'cause that's the way we built everything.
And then it was like, duh.
Look at a chair.
(38:41):
There's not a single chair out therethat's got a straight up and down back.
They all have a littlebit of a pitch on them.
Yeah.
Although there's a few dining roomchairs that I've seen that, I swear
they were straight up and down.
Oh yeah.
People wanted to have astiff back and sit upright.
No slouching in those chairs.
Not my kind of chair.
Trey (38:59):
You'll have to tie me to the back of it
Mike (39:00):
anyway.
one of the things you mentioneda minute ago was a tv.
And a TV in a lot of outdoor livingspaces is a very popular thing to do.
Oh yeah.
there are countless people.
That I worked with in the past that werelike, I need a cabana with a fireplace.
And my question was, why?
(39:21):
And they're like, 'causewe wanna watch a tv.
And I'm like, so you're gonnabuild a $25,000 cabana and put a
$15,000 fireplace in it so you canput a TV in so you can watch it.
Trey (39:34):
A couple grand for the TV too.
A
Mike (39:35):
couple grand for the tv.
And they're like, yeah.
And I said, have you heardof outdoor rated TVs?
And they're like what'san outdoor rated tv?
Outdoor rated tv?
You can take a sprinkler hoseand just run it right onto it.
Trey (39:48):
Yep.
Mike (39:49):
And it's fine.
It's set up where it handles glare better.
Because it's designed to be outside.
The other thing is it's sealed,which is really important.
'cause bugs are what gets into a lotof TVs and actually causes them to go
Trey (40:03):
bad.
That's the most commonway a TV goes bad outside.
Yeah.
And people to the argument will say,oh, I'll just put a cover on it.
We're not gonna put a coveron it every single night.
If you're entertaining outsideone night out of the whole
year, you're gonna forget.
And then it just takes one bug.
Mike (40:18):
what happens is you're gonna spend, and it used to be a big cost
difference between an outdoor rated tv.
Yeah.
Indoor rated tv.
But now we're talkingthousands of dollars.
Two or $3,000 in difference in costversus I'm gonna build a $25,000 cabana
and build in a $15,000 fireplace.
(40:38):
So now I'm invested $40,000into where my TV goes.
I can spend a couple thousand moreand I can put the TV anywhere.
Trey (40:45):
someone like that might be like, if I'm not, gonna
put the TV on the fireplace.
where am I gonna put the tv?
It's just gonna be on a polein the middle of the yard.
Mike (40:52):
I've done that.
Okay.
And then we've also done just ascreen wall that the TV's mounted on.
Trey (41:00):
You put on your house too.
House.
Yeah.
The thing
Mike (41:01):
is, it can be in an arbor.
Mm-hmm.
Not necessarily a solid roof structure.
gives you flexibilityplus it performs better.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's something.
The other thing that's cominginto play is the size of TVs.
Because we used to build a six footwide fireplace and we put a TV over it.
Yeah.
People were like, that'snot a very big tv.
(41:24):
'Cause it's only five feet acrossif I leave six inches on both sides.
Trey (41:28):
Yeah.
Mike (41:29):
And scale wise, we don't want it look like it's swallowed an eighth.
That fireplace.
So then we started building sevenfoot wide fireplaces just so we
could accommodate a bigger tv.
Yeah.
I just did a project and theywere like it's not big enough.
So we made the sides ofthe fireplace even bigger.
Trey (41:46):
Someone that's listening to this might be like, what does it
mean it's not big enough if the TVoverhangs the fireplace it looks funky
when you see the sides of the tv.
Mike (41:55):
Yeah.
Trey (41:56):
Overhanging
Mike (41:56):
it.
So usually you wanna do arecess panel into the fireplace
and put the TV into that.
We used to do wooden boxes and, we'dopen 'em up in the tv, be in there.
I haven't seen one of those in a decade.
Trey (42:10):
A big trend now is they have these really nice industrial mount systems
where you can pretty much turn it andpull it out and that way if you're,
in the patio, everyone can see it.
Or if you'all are out, out at thepool or in the hot tub, you can turn.
Completely 90 degrees or whatever youwanna do and extend it three feet out.
(42:30):
It's really cool.
I love TVs by the way so
Mike (42:32):
yeah.
We actually had a client that I met withthis week that, that was the exact 'cause
the, they were like the spa's right inline with the face of the fireplace.
Yeah.
And they're like, so we'll haveto be able to just turn it nine
degrees, but that's not a big deal.
You know the structure thatyou need for that is flexible.
(42:52):
There's also, there's TVs that come upout of the ground and telescope out.
Oh yeah.
Fold out.
And you can have a massive tv.
Trey (43:02):
Yeah.
Or you could just put it in a vaultand it could just pop right up.
Mike (43:05):
Yeah.
So you can have it.
Yes.
Doesn't
Trey (43:07):
even need to fold.
I've seen the folding onesnow, and that's crazy.
Yes.
You mentioned the other day and Ihad never seen one, and I saw Danny
Wink post it on his Instagram.
I was like, oh, of course.
There it's crazy.
Mike (43:16):
Yeah.
So we've tried to get them on the podcast.
We haven't got there yet.
But there's some really interestingthings you can do with audio and visual.
So there's people that are doing,projectors that, are on big side areas.
So there's a lot of different thingsthat you can do that's available on
the market that you don't necessarilyhave to put inside of a structure.
Trey (43:38):
With audio, I think back when you built your pool they had
technology to have underwater speakers.
The technology is, a lot ofoptions out there that are wild.
Mike (43:47):
that's a episode that's hopefully upcoming soon is on audio and all its
capabilities that we can do outside.
Yeah.
a lot of people start with a structure.
When they talk about outdoorliving space, we wanna look at a
structure that we're going to use.
And that structure, you have tounderstand what you're looking at it for.
(44:12):
Okay.
So there's structures that are justfor shade and there's structures
that are for rain protection.
There's structures that, you'regonna look at different sizes, you're
gonna look at different materials.
So you have to understand whatyou want this structure to do.
Just
Trey (44:30):
also extending the patio or going to a isolated structure.
Mike (44:34):
Okay, so that's an excellent point.
The last design I just didyesterday the backyard was small.
And so from the house to theback fence was about 35 feet.
Okay.
So the number one thing to look atwhen you're gonna do a structure that's
attached to the home is you have tounderstand what the rear building line is.
(44:57):
So on your survey, almost everysurvey shows the front building line.
Trey (45:02):
Yeah.
Mike (45:03):
Almost all of them are 25 feet.
That's a very popular size.
Sometimes they're bigger than that, butmost of the, and sometimes they're smaller
than that, but most of 'em are 25 feet.
And almost every house in theneighborhood will be pushed all the
way up to where it touches that line.
Trey (45:19):
Yeah.
Mike (45:20):
Then you have a rear building line.
As well as side building lines.
Most of the time thosearen't on the survey.
Trey (45:26):
This is for the home itself.
Mike (45:28):
This is for the home itself.
Trey (45:31):
So you're talking about if it's attached, then it
becomes part of the home?
Mike (45:34):
That's exactly right.
Okay.
If it's attached, itbecomes part of the home.
Trey (45:38):
I've never heard of a rear building line ever.
That's
Mike (45:40):
that makes sense though.
We, the one that we met with theother day Yeah I looked it up and
the rear building line was 25 feet.
Okay.
yard was only like 35 feet deep.
That means all I could addto the house was 10 feet.
And they wanted a full dining area anda full kitchen area and a fireplace.
Trey (45:59):
Yeah.
And some seating areas
Mike (46:01):
that doesn't fit the furniture stacked on top of each other.
Takes up more than 10 feet.
Trey (46:06):
Yeah.
Can you do a two story, three story?
Like, how's this gonna work?
So
Mike (46:10):
now most cities have different rules if it's detached from the home.
Now that same city said it hasto be six feet off the property.
If it's detached from the home.
Trey (46:25):
This is why step one and two are very important.
Mike (46:27):
Yes.
So you've got a differenceof 19 feet there.
Yeah.
That's possible.
So then the critical thing isto understand from the city what
is it required to be detached?
Now, in some cities, this city in has inpoint all that you have to be away from.
The existing home is an inch.
(46:49):
Wow.
It's now detached.
Trey (46:51):
Interesting.
Mike (46:52):
Okay.
Some cities requireyou to be 10 feet away.
Yeah.
And the reason why is it's fire code.
They want you to, if a structurecatches on fire, it won't jump to the
next structure if it's 10 feet away.
You have to understand what theirdefinition of detached is in
almost every city's different.
(47:13):
And so these are all things that arereally important when you look at your
structure on how close you can be.
the city of Frisco was really good.
They would allow you to callup on the individual piece of
property and they would tellyou exactly what the rules were.
So some cities are like,oh, go look at our codes.
And you have to read through it andfigure everything out and understand.
(47:35):
And hopefully they haven't changedanything, as you go through stuff.
As you're designing these structures, youhave to understand in some cities a solid
roof structure has a different code thanan arbor with an open roof structure.
And most cities consider a louveredarbor a solid roof because it
will be solid most of the time
Trey (47:57):
you're talking about roof square footage for permeable or
Mike (48:01):
permeability.
Yeah.
That becomes an issue as well.
Yeah.
So you have to look at that froma calculation standpoint of what's
possible with your settings.
'cause there's more and more cities.
That's becoming an a real big issuebecause the drain systems for the
city initially were calculated ona 2,500 square foot home, which
(48:23):
is now being tore down and they'reputting in a 8,000 square foot home.
So there's a lot more roofarea, there's less runoff.
There's a lot more runoff.
Yeah.
And so less place for itto go into the ground.
So there's a calculationthat you have to follow.
Trey (48:37):
There's builders out there where they will build a house
and it's actually past the limit.
And you're, and you might be trying todesign something that with something
in the backyard of structure, and youdon't even have any room in the builder,
might not even have room, they to cuttheir, the roof square footage down.
Mike (48:52):
So there's builders that go get a variance for their house Yeah.
And got approved becausethey went over the limit.
But then when you come in to dosomething, they're already over the limit.
Yeah.
So you don't have aprayer of doing anything.
Or, so when you look at thesestructures, you have to understand
how you're gonna use the space.
(49:13):
So now one thing that comesin, okay, I want some shade,
or I want rain protection.
And I don't have thecapability to add anything.
What you can put in umbrella.
Oh.
Okay.
There's umbrellas that havecanopies that are 14 by 14.
Trey (49:28):
Yeah.
Mike (49:29):
It's the size of a, small room.
There's not a code that requires that.
So there's some places that you can dosales that you're fabric that you put
up that can create a shade structure.
There's also retractable shadesails, which are structures that
have fabric that you can pull backand open so you can allow different
(49:53):
degrees of sun or shade into a space.
Trey (49:55):
Is that something you would put on the side of the patio?
Because I feel like a lot, likeinitially when someone talks about a
structure, typically they want to extendtheir patio that they already have.
Mike (50:05):
those are options that you could consider.
Okay.
Okay.
When you create something that's a solidroof, what you wanna do is look at.
Can we match the existingmaterial that's on the roof?
Oh yeah.
up until today or up untilFriday that was always a, yeah,
that's not a problem at all.
We can come in and match that situation.
(50:26):
We have a custom home that was constructeda number of years ago that used a
designer roofing shingle, and that roofingshingle was discontinued 15 years ago.
So now we're going to add on a solid roofthat's extended off the home attached.
We can't get a shingle that matches it.
Trey (50:47):
Not perfectly
Mike (50:48):
now either.
It's gonna be the wrongtexture or the wrong color.
So we're gonna have a meetingwith the homeowner to discuss.
The options of it.
'cause he may we're notsure what he'll pick.
Or we could use come in with a steelroof that would be totally different.
But we've gotta set up how wetransition those materials.
So those are all things that you have tothink about when you're doing a structure.
(51:10):
Now when Arbor that hasPoly Gal on top of it,
Trey (51:15):
you remember the name, I remember the name, I couldn't.
Mike (51:17):
We'll provide a fairly solid surface and be a lower cost
point than a solid roof would be.
Yeah.
Now the other thing, when you're attachingto a home, a lot of times what you have
to look at is, are there second storywindows that your ridge and roof is gonna
go up and project in front of that window?
Trey (51:36):
Yeah.
And roof lines in general.
Mike (51:37):
And so you have to figure out how all those pieces are
gonna go together as well.
And then you have to figure out.
Is it gonna be a gable roof?
Is it gonna be a shed roof?
Is it gonna be a hip roof?
There's all different styles ofroofs that you can look at, and
what you usually look at is whatmatches the architecture of the home.
So all these things blend together.
Trey (51:57):
Yeah.
This one concept that, like I've seena bunch of I guess they're trying
to extend the patio and they added astructure right next to it, and it's
not built into the side of the home.
And it looks like it's been added onafter the fact, versus trying to make it
look like it was built with the house.
Mike (52:15):
Yeah.
So again, there's formand there's function.
there's function and there's aesthetics.
some people are gonna look at.
I just wanna stay dry.
I don't care what it looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And this is $10,000 cheaperthan to look like something
that matched up with a home.
Yeah.
I mean, Everybody's different in whattheir acceptance level is in that aspect.
Trey (52:37):
City codes are different too.
So that could play a factor into
Mike (52:40):
Oh that's a big deal.
So one of the challenges I'verun into with cities also is
they limit the height to 10 feet.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
It's hard to put a, roof onsomething and stay under 10 feet in
Trey (52:54):
height, especially if there's windows, big windows.
Mike (52:56):
So on your new structure
Trey (52:59):
No.
On the home, if the structure'sbuilt into the home, yeah.
Mike (53:02):
So 10 feet basically you'd be flat.
Yeah.
So that's where a lot of times youcan't come in with a typical roof
pitch because you have to tie in andyou can't go over a certain height.
I've had several cities that I'vegotten variances on by going in front
of a city council or something likethat to allow a different height
(53:23):
than what's standard by the city.
Some things also that comeinto play is the difference.
Distance.
Your structure is gonna have tobe away from the, if you have
water with a swimming pool.
Mm-hmm.
That's something that sometimescities are like, it's five feet.
what they're looking at is, someof them, they're looking at the
(53:44):
electrical lights, fixtures inthe structure relative to water.
Although you can get intolow voltage type situations.
The other thing you can look atis you can get variances too for
those based on, depth the pool tothe foundation of the structure.
So there's lots of differentthings to look at there.
(54:06):
When you're looking at a structure
In protection.
Now when you have a structure, wementioned briefly earlier about
screens to protect you from wind.
There's some people that wanna putscreens up to protect you from bugs.
Some people also want screens toprovide you shade uh, or keep the
Trey (54:25):
heat in if they have heaters as well.
Correct.
Mike (54:27):
So those are all reasons that people like to do retractable screens,
which if you know that you're going to dothose, those could be built into columns.
So the tracks are very non-visible.
But they can also bedone with add-ons later.
It's just the tracking system's gonna be alittle bit more visible that you look at.
(54:49):
We mentioned a hybrid where you could openand shut it with a louver type situation.
Those.
Work really well, because those are flat.
And so if you have a heightrestriction, those are something
that can work usually with thoseheights that you're working with.
Are
Trey (55:05):
you talking about like the blinds type screen?
Mike (55:08):
Like an Equinox or an Apollo structure,
Trey (55:10):
but vertically and not a roof.
Oh, you're actually talkingabout the structure.
Okay.
The structure itself.
Okay.
Mike (55:14):
Yeah.
But one of the things that's reallyimportant for people, they've
got this outdoor living space.
We've looked at different furniturethat you're gonna put in the space.
We, we've looked at, where you're gonnagather and how many is an average.
But one of the big things tothink about also is the kitchen.
So that's gonna be anotherstep that we're gonna go into.
(55:38):
And we will jump intothat in a little bit.
Sounds good.
Hopefully this has beenhelpful information.
And if it has been, then, share itwith your friends, pass it on, give
us a thumbs up, whatever works well.
We want to give you different steps toconsider as you look at your project.
And from here we're gonnalook at, outdoor kitchens.
(55:58):
The other thing that we're gonna lookat is pools and things that, that are
gonna make your backyard a great oasis.
So, If you've got other questions,please let us know those, and we'll
look forward to talking to you soon.
Trey (56:11):
Y'all have a good one.
Outro (56:12):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're gonna findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a
pool in the future or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
(56:36):
We wanna be that resource for you, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.
(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping you.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.
(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
If you have any questions, ideas, orjust want to be part of the conversation,
if you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.
Mike (01:17):
Good afternoon.
This is Mike Farley fromFarley Pool Designs.
We're hosting Luxury Outdoor LivingPodcast, and we're here for the
homeowner to figure out theirguide to their backyard Oasis.
And we've got a reallycrucial episode here.
We call it step three.
It's a big step.
Step three is an important step.
(01:37):
So step three is goingto cover entertainment.
And in entertainment youneed a great outdoor living
Trey (01:46):
setting.
Yeah.
That's probably one of thefunnest steps, honestly.
'cause everyone likes to entertain.
Mike (01:50):
Yeah.
And it applies to everybody, whether youhave a pool or you don't have a pool.
Yeah.
Or, whatever you're gonna do.
Most
Trey (01:57):
entertaining your friends or family or maybe just you, your spouse.
Yeah, exactly.
Mike (02:02):
Yeah.
which goes to the very first andprobably most critical question
that I ask people, which is, whatis your average size gathering?
Trey (02:11):
Yeah.
Mike (02:11):
And the reason this is important, several years ago, I ask people this all
the time and their answer was a hundred.
Trey (02:20):
That's probably not their average, but their, if you had a
gathering, how many people would it be?
And they automaticallythink about the maximum.
Mike (02:26):
Actually, that's what I thought.
Trey (02:28):
Oh, really?
Well, not that
Mike (02:29):
and not for them.
Trey (02:31):
Oh, that's their average.
That was their average.
Oh wow.
Okay.
That's crazy.
Mike (02:34):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So you're gonna design that space totallydifferent than a typical backyard.
Oh yeah.
Which the average gathering is what,
Trey (02:43):
15 to 10 I'd imagine?
Maybe.
Yeah.
Mike (02:46):
10, 12, 15 people is the average answer that we
get probably 90% of the time.
Yeah.
Some people say two.
Yep.
They're like, we don't entertain.
This is just for me and my spouseand this is our place of tranquility
and peace and we don't need awhole lot of entertainment set up.
Yeah.
And we did that right down theroad at the frame residence.
(03:07):
Yeah.
Beautiful
Trey (03:08):
job.
And do you have people also thatentertain, like you did back when me
and my sisters used to be at y'all'shouse and, you would have just.
Crews of people coming through,there's people that entertain
like, youth groups for instance.
We had that one job and it was likestructured around 50 people for
seating and everything like that.
Mike (03:24):
Yeah.
So this one couple, theyattended a large church.
Yeah.
And they were in a large class andthey would have average gatherings
of a hundred people, on a weekend.
Oh wow.
in their backyard.
you know, You think about it,everything including like walkways and
staircases and just your circulation.
(03:44):
You're setting up for peopleto be all over the place.
And this wasn't like, oh, we'regonna entertain a hundred kids,
like some people with youth groups,but, this is, was a hundred adults.
So the outdoor kitchen areahad to be totally different.
It was one of the only places I'veput two full size grills in and
put in a full size refrigerator.
(04:06):
In the cabana and a dishwasher.
Trey (04:08):
Yeah.
Mike (04:08):
Because, that was their setup.
So you gotta be able to handle thatand where's the catering gonna go
and, all that type of situation.
But most people and the reason thisis an important question to ask
is in your outdoor living space,most people set up their furniture
based on an average gathering.
Trey (04:27):
Yeah.
Mike (04:28):
So you're not gonna set up, 10 lounge chairs if your average
gathering is, 10 to 12 people.
Yeah.
You're not gonna do that
Trey (04:36):
in a situation with that.
You usually where you have a lotmore with a hundred, I'm assuming
you're trying to utilize every spaceto have built-in seating and certain
kind of features where you can siton comfortably to maximize the seat.
Area.
Mike (04:49):
Correct.
that was on a hillside.
And so we set up, the cabana area wasup close to the house elevation, but
then there was some massive steps goingdown to the pool area where people could
gather and then there was seat walls onboth sides so people could sit there.
Yeah.
So it wasn't just to set it up fortables and chairs and lounge chairs
(05:10):
and day beds for a hundred people.
You didn't set up onetable for six either.
Yeah.
You're setting up a, multipleareas that we could set up banquet
tables with eight foot rounds.
You could set people, banquets,tile on two different terraces.
We set it up where there was.
Capability, I think for 10tables that set eight people.
(05:31):
Yeah.
That was a pretty big, situation,when you set up the terrace, you
need to have a certain width forcertain size pieces of furniture.
So probably one of the mostimportant things that I look at
is minimum areas for furniture.
Yeah.
So if we've got a table that sitsfor people, you want a 12 by 12.
(05:52):
Okay.
So you want to be ableto sit at the table.
People can still walk around the table
Trey (05:57):
comfortably without bumping in at anybody, right?
Mike (06:00):
Yeah.
With that situation.
So you have a four foot roundtable, it takes up two feet for
the chairs all the way around, andthen you've got two more feet for
people to walk all the way around.
And so that gives you a 12 by 12.
So if you.
Set it up for six, it's a 12 by 14.
If you set it up foreight, it's a 12 by 18.
(06:21):
Or if you're gonna go to a six footround, then you've gotta have a 14 by 14.
it's just math on how you putthis out and lay this out.
But it's crucial for you to figureout how the patio space works
when you're gonna be entertaining.
Trey (06:37):
Yeah.
The flow of the every, how themovement's gonna be around the job.
Mike (06:40):
So you can look at two lounge chairs.
You need a 10 by 10 chairsare typically six feet.
You want four feet for two people atto pass each other, either in front
of the chairs or behind the chairs,but somewhere around the chairs.
A walkway going one way or the other.
Front walkway's, four feet wide.
But if you got water on one side, like apool or something like that, five's a lot
(07:02):
nicer because now somebody doesn't haveto pass each other's shoulder to shoulder.
And someone gets bumped intothe pool and takes a bath.
Yeah.
But if three people are going downa walkway, you need a six by six.
Those are all things you want tothink about with the economy of scale.
Now, also, if it's massive, just wantmore mass in, so it doesn't seem like
(07:23):
the walkway's a little dinky thingaround some big, massive pool too.
Trey (07:26):
What about furniture?
So actual furniture you buy andthen you can move around as you
please on the square footage, andthen also just built in furniture.
what's the trade off of those two?
Mike (07:36):
built in allows you to work in a smaller space.
Okay?
So when we have a really tightspace, a lot of times we're gonna
do a built in seat along one sidethat the table will slide up to.
Okay?
So now I don't have to havea walkway space behind me.
So it eliminates two feet.
Okay.
Like we did the project over inUniversity Park that had the all turf
(07:59):
that had the table underneath the arbor.
Trey (08:02):
Yeah.
Mike (08:02):
We did built in seating up against the garage so we could sit
there and we could still have the table.
And then there was enough space betweenthe table and the pool for people to
walk comfortably on the turf area.
in small yards.
It's really critical to thinkabout how you're gonna entertain.
And one of the best comments that I'veheard on all the episodes was a comment
(08:24):
that was made is the best way to makeall these pieces work is especially,
to make sure you have all the placesthat the client's going to need.
you have to understand when you'reentertaining, what's the priority.
For some people it's a table.
Yeah.
That they're all gonna die in that.
Yeah.
(08:45):
So that's a critical piece thatyou've gotta put in the, a puzzle.
Some people it's, we want to have loungechairs and they need to be oriented
towards the sun, and so we need thismany, whether it's two or four or six or
whatever they're trying to accommodate.
You gotta have the space for thosepeople to sit in that location.
(09:06):
And it's important.
One of the things as we talk aboutfurniture is, it need to be around when
you're looking at your site analysis,like a lot of people lounge chairs,
they could care less about the sun.
Trey (09:17):
That's true.
Some people you gotta have that onethat you at least can tan in, but yeah.
Yeah.
No, there's some peoplethat don't tan at all.
They just wanna lounge
Mike (09:24):
and a lot of 'em want umbrellas.
Yeah.
They're like, pleasedon't put me in the sun.
Okay, give me shade.
Yeah.
So I can hang out here.
But some people they'recritical about the sun.
And so then you wanna putthem where they're gonna get a
good sunning area in the yard.
So you have to look at the orientationof the sun and shade trees that are
there and all those different things.
(09:46):
Yeah.
So you accommodate it.
Now the table, a lot of times people wantto be under shelter with the table, and
so that may be an existing porch or thatcould be a structure that you're going to
have to create to create a space for them.
Some people want to go sleep.
Okay.
So they want a day bed.
so there's day beds that are swings allkinds of different things that you have.
(10:08):
So you wanna figure out how big a spaceand then how big is that bed gonna be?
We've done some day beds that are, justreally deep benches that you can cuddle
up into in that type of situation.
But we've also done day beds thatare full queen-sized mattresses.
Yeah.
So that's a totallydifferent size situation.
And setup that you're gonna do.
And is that a piece of pre-made furnitureor is this something that you're going
(10:32):
to actually build and create that space?
So there's different swingcompanies that make swings.
There's different companiesthat make furniture.
And there's, whatever youcould construct is whatever's
in your creative environment.
Trey (10:46):
Yeah.
Maybe you don't want a lounge or youjust want a daybed that's, in the water.
So there's the custom thing right there.
Mike (10:51):
Yeah.
with furniture, some people alsowant to have a space, like a bar.
so with the bar, they want to have bar
Trey (10:59):
stools.
Yeah.
When you talking entertainmentfor adults, yeah.
It's the bar.
Mike (11:03):
And some people that's a bar that's in conjunction with a kitchen,
and some people are like, oh, pleasedon't make me sit there in the
smoke and the heat off the kitchen.
I just want a double sided seating area.
that's basically an island Yeah.
That we can sit and hang out on.
And so you have to look at thespace for the island itself.
And one of the critical things that youwanna look at when you do that is you
(11:27):
wanna make sure that you've got somenice overhang with whatever your counter
material is, so people's knees cancomfortably be tucked into that space.
Mm-hmm.
And nine inches is typically aminimum that I look at to do that.
So if you have an overhangon both sides of a structure,
and then you basically have.
(11:48):
an island, you're gonna look atsomething that's probably at least
three feet wide, that you could havebasically, seating on both sides.
And then some people are like, let's buildthis in conjunction with our kitchen.
So let's just do a back splashon the kitchen and then that can
give us some additional seating.
Because a lot of times there'snot somebody that's cooking there.
And it's a great place forme to sit and watch the tv.
Trey (12:10):
Yeah.
And then there's some people that wannabe, wet in the pool at the bar as well.
Mike (12:14):
Swim up bar.
Trey (12:15):
Yep.
Okay.
The wet bar.
Mike (12:17):
Yeah.
We'll touch on that whenwe get to swimming pools.
Okay.
Save it for later.
Save it for later.
But another thing that's really criticalwith people entertaining is the fire.
Trey (12:27):
A lot of fire features, a lot of just fire in general adds
another element to the picture.
Mike (12:32):
Yeah.
a lot of times a fire pit orfireplace is a place to gather.
Yeah.
And so we want to be able to sit there andcomfortably enjoy our interaction today.
And so a fire pit when I grew upis a totally different thing than a
fire pit that we typically see today.
Trey (12:50):
So you're talking about the fire pits that we would see in Colorado.
Or you would make Yeah.
So we Okay.
A ring.
Mike (12:56):
Yeah, we'd make a stone ring and put some wood in it and light it.
And that was the fire pit.
Trey (13:01):
People still do that, you know, there's, there's some people
that are around my age that might,go get some pallets from Walmart
and throw it in their own ring andput some lighter fuel fluid on it.
So that still happens these days,don't, I don't think it doesn't.
Mike (13:13):
Oh I saw something today at Bucky's.
It said this was environmentallyfriendly wood something like that.
And I thought what does that mean?
Is that mean that it's a tree?
Trey (13:24):
Maybe it didn't have any squirrel families in there
when they chopped it down.
I don't
Mike (13:27):
know.
Interesting.
I don't know what that meant.
it wasn't chopped up pallets though, so.
Well, it means
Trey (13:32):
it's environmentally friendly, obviously, whatever that means.
So
Mike (13:36):
most people today want their fire pit.
Not to actually be wood burning.
Yeah.
And that, disappoints some people.
'cause they love thesmell of wood burning.
However, when you're gatheringaround a fire pit and it's wood,
you have to realize 25% of thecrowd is gonna get wiped out.
Or they're gonna get smoked to perfection.
Trey (13:56):
Yeah.
They're gonna smell really bad.
Mike (13:58):
Well, It depends on if you think that smells bad or not.
That's true.
Yeah.
So anyway most people have ahard time sitting around that.
So most of the ones we construct,we actually run gas out there.
And it used to be we'd run gas outso they could light their wood.
And it was like a starter.
So it was easy to start the fire, butmost people today don't want wood.
(14:18):
In fact, most cities don't allow it, justflat out won't allow you to burn wood.
Yeah.
What they're looking for is somethingthat you're just gonna burn the gas with.
And that's going to be,some media that's in there.
And that can be glass, that can beconcrete spheres, that can be your
(14:38):
tumbled lava rock or something like that.
So
Trey (14:41):
Is the reason that the city does that, is because they
want it to be a controlled fire?
Is that the thinking behind it?
Mike (14:47):
I think there's a couple reasons why.
One is there aren't sparksthat's coming off a gas Yeah.
Lit fire.
So the chances of you burning down theneighborhood with that greatly lessen.
Yeah.
And so there's been a lot ofwildfires over the time period.
Oh yeah.
In recent years that, whole cities havegotten just about burned down Yeah.
(15:10):
Because of things getting lit on fire.
the cities basically,don't allow you to do that.
So the, okay.
Burning of the natural gasor sometimes it's propane.
Just a slight note betweenthe two differences.
There is the propane's heavy and settles.
And the gas is light and dissipates.
(15:30):
And so in both cases venting the unitis very critical, but especially for
propane, because if propane settles andbuilds up, then it eventually goes boom.
Yeah.
Which is not a very good situationfor anybody that's involved.
Trey (15:45):
So if you have a propane fire pit that's custom made, you need
to make sure that your vents areas close to the bottom as possible.
So if some reason is left on thatway the propane can leak out of
the the shell of your fire pit.
So the next time you light it.
It doesn't blow up like a bomb.
Mike (16:02):
Yeah.
now some fire pits are manually operated.
In other words, you're gonna go downand you're gonna turn a key, just
like you turn a key in a fireplaceand you'll light that with a lighter.
Yeah.
So that's what's donewith a lot of people.
And a lot of people considerthat just fine because again,
this is a gathering thing.
They're gonna go down there and gather.
(16:24):
So there's no reason to put automaticignition on something like that and
spend thousands of dollars extra.
Trey (16:29):
It's not something, a fire feature you're turning on when
you come home just so you can seeit while you're in the kitchen.
Mike (16:34):
So most people, it's the gather around.
Okay.
Versus what you're talking aboutis a fire feature, not a fire pit.
Yeah.
And a lot of times those are in keypoints on your visuals that you're gonna
look out, which we'll get into whenwe talk about things that look nice.
But for gathering, one of thethings about a fire pit two things.
(16:54):
One is the size of it.
Most residential settings, a fivefoot outside measurement of a
fire pit with a three foot insidemeasurement is a nice size fire pit.
Yeah.
Okay.
You can make 'em a little smaller,but you gotta realize if it's a
three foot inside, the ring offire is even smaller than that.
(17:16):
So you don't have fire all the way outto the edges of the, the situation.
There's a plate that usually has thefire ring in six inches on each side.
So if it's a three foot round, yourfire is now only two feet across.
Trey (17:30):
You know, A lot of people want to know how much heat
is it gonna actually put off.
'cause they hear, oh,so and so had one and.
You know, It looked really nice.
It was expensive, but it'sfor gathering, like you said,
and they want it to be warm.
Mike (17:44):
Depends.
Like in the summer, some peopledon't want it to be warm.
True.
But we'll touch on that in just a second.
But your heat is generated by the media.
Okay.
So you've got, I mentionedthree things a minute ago.
I mentioned glass.
Yep.
I mentioned tumbled, lab, rock, and Imentioned concrete spheres or cannonballs.
Okay.
So the glass is pretty.
Yes.
(18:04):
But it gets everywhere.
Yeah, it does get everywhere.
Especially if kids yes.
But the flames go right through it and theglass doesn't really generate any heat.
Trey (18:13):
Yeah.
It doesn't put any off.
Mike (18:14):
that is going to be the least warm of the different features.
Okay.
So we've done photo shoots before,and when we finished and we
turned off the lava rock, whatdid the lava rock look like?
Trey (18:27):
It was glowing, like it was some magma right next to a volcano.
Mike (18:31):
Yeah.
So really
Trey (18:32):
cool.
Look,
Mike (18:33):
It's glowing and it is generating heat even though there's
no flame there anymore at all.
Trey (18:38):
Yeah.
Make sure the littleBilly doesn't grab that.
Yeah.
So that
Mike (18:41):
would not be a good situation.
So your lava rock will generate some meat.
Now your spheres do the same as well?
Yes.
They generate heat off of it evenafter you turn the flames off.
So those two medias are gonna be warmer.
Trey (18:57):
I think the cannonballs glow a little bit more.
I feel like they hold moreheat than the lava rock might.
Mike (19:02):
A lot of times they're stacked and so that's true in between those areas.
It's colds, it gets reallywarm in that space and
Trey (19:09):
maybe lava rock puts off more heat because there's more mass versus the
cannonballs are more of a aesthetic,
Mike (19:16):
We ought to get a temperature gun and
Trey (19:18):
yeah, I think we need to do a little MythBuster
Mike (19:20):
action.
This is to be some research on it, okay.
if you think that's a good idea, send usa message and let us know what you think.
Okay?
And let us know which oneyou think would be warmer.
you mentioned a couple of things.
A little Billy grabbing the rock.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
there's a couple of thingsthat you're gonna look at.
Some people will actually come inwith a screen around the fire pit
(19:42):
that's a glass or something like that.
Yep.
To prevent someone fromreaching into the fire.
Now you gotta realize theglass is still hot as well.
That's true.
Okay.
But you can't reach in and grab something.
The other thing is the heightof the fire pit is in debate.
My personal opinion is to makean fire pit 18 inches tall as a
(20:06):
total disservice to the homeowner.
Trey (20:08):
Why is that?
Mike (20:08):
Because they're gonna sit on the edge of it.
'cause it's the height of a chair.
That's true.
When you sit on the edge of it,what are you sitting next to?
You're
Trey (20:15):
sitting next to a fire.
Mike (20:16):
You're sitting next to a fire.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's not a real comfortable placeto sit or should you be sitting there?
Yeah.
Okay.
So what I typically do is onlymake the fire pit 12 inches tall.
Okay.
At 12 inches tall, it'snot comfortable to sit on.
Okay.
But it makes a great foot rest.
It does.
(20:36):
Okay.
So you can prop your feet up there.
Okay.
So I'm a fan of neverhaving a fire pit flush.
Mm-hmm.
Just walk into it.
Somebody could just walk right into it.
Okay.
Or trip over it.
Trey (20:48):
Yeah.
Mike (20:48):
My opinion is twelve's a great height, eighteen's a little bit dangerous.
Now another great heightis actually 30 inches.
Trey (20:57):
Okay.
Why so?
tabletop, it's the height of a table.
Mike (21:01):
Okay.
So that's a big feature.
You can basically put an overhangaround it, like it's a bar top.
Yep.
And then people can sit around thatwith chairs and it makes a nice feature.
that's another solution that a lot ofpeople consider as they look at the
height of what their fire pit should be.
Now this is for gathering.
Trey (21:21):
Yes.
And I know you mentioned somethingearlier, I just want to say
something else that you didn'tsay that you might consider.
It's not really a fire featurebut it works in a similar way.
It's a patio heaters, I knowyou said fireplace as well.
But patio heaters, if you thinkabout it, people gather around those.
It's typically underneaththe patio, obviously, but.
Mike (21:40):
Heaters will greatly extend your season.
Yeah.
there's a couple of different heaterelements that you can consider.
There's a couple units that are built in.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So they're built into theceiling of a structure.
And so what you look at is there'san electric option and there's a gas
option of those respective heaters.
(22:02):
There's a number of differentbrands that are out there that you
can consider, but one of the bigconsiderations as you go through this is.
Your utility availability on your project.
Yeah.
I just messed up rurally ona project not too long ago.
Okay.
So one of the things we do is when we'relooking at all these things we're going
(22:24):
to add, we look at the load calc that'savailable for the overall situation.
Yes.
And we had a client that we talkedabout using a gas heater and
then they switched to an electricheater after we did the load calc.
Yeah.
And it was assumed thatsomeone had gone out.
And checked to make sure thatwe still had enough electricity.
(22:47):
I assumed an assistant did it.
They assumed I did it.
Nobody did it.
Yeah.
We did the job.
We went to go out and we'vegot too much electrical.
'cause each one of theseheaters pulls 25 amps.
Yeah.
Over the ampage.
Yeah.
So we were three heaters, 75 amps.
We were over the ampage by over60, and so there was no way we
(23:10):
could get those heaters into place.
Yeah.
So we had to switch back to gas, orthe alternative was a total electrical
service upgrade to the property, whichwas gonna cost over $10,000 to do.
Yeah.
Now some people.
Would consider that and other peoplewould be like, that's ridiculous.
But that's something that youneed to discuss in the beginnings.
(23:34):
Not make the mistake that Idid on that particular project.
Which
Trey (23:38):
with heaters it's in their propane options as well.
Are they not suitable?
Mike (23:42):
off the top of my head, I'm sure that the gas can either
come as natural gas or propane.
Okay.
But you have to decide.
How these are gonna be mounted, the heightabove the ceiling, the ceiling height.
Yeah.
Whether they're gonna be recessed or not.
Some cannot, some can,
Trey (24:02):
some people don't like having natural gas lines everywhere on
their project as well, so that'swhy they might want to do electric,
Mike (24:08):
The whole thing is you have to hide these things.
Yeah.
So that's where, like a full masonrycolumn is a nice feature because you
can run chases up inside of that andhide the plumbing or the electric,
whichever conduit you know you're goingto need, you're gonna need something if
you're putting heaters in the ceiling.
Now some people are gonna use heatersthat are free freestanding units.
(24:28):
There's a real cool looking bro heaterthat is a nice freestanding unit that
you could roll into a space and use it.
I've seen them used in quite a few, placesof hospitality for, serving outside.
Now if you're doing heaters, one thingyou may also want to consider is do we
want to provide some type of screening?
(24:51):
with screening, therefore we can blockthe wind and the space that we're
heating up is going to stay warmer.
The other thing is, if you're doingheaters, most people are going to do
that where they have a solid roof.
Yeah.
Not something that's opened
Trey (25:06):
like a pergola or
Mike (25:07):
something.
Yeah.
So because your heat disis just gonna dissipate up
through that unit of pointless.
Yeah.
Now you could use likea louvered arbor mm-hmm.
type thing, like an Equinoxor Apollo type unit or
Trey (25:19):
put that clear stuff on top.
Mike (25:21):
We could come in and put the clear stuff on top.
Yeah.
I forgot what it's called.
Me too, off the top of my head.
Trey (25:27):
Have you ever heard of heated patios?
Like the actual flooring wherethey have systems where you can
like pretty much built in radiantheating systems underneath like
concrete stone tile pavers.
And it like warms thesurface of the floor.
And it's usually usedin like colder climates.
Mike (25:43):
Certainly it is used in colder climates that some people
will heat sidewalks with that,so Oh yeah, the snow melts off.
So yeah, that's a definite possibility.
It's not done a lot here in the southbecause it's cold for like two months.
It's not that cold for very long.
Yeah.
BBQ Intro (26:01):
We are gonna take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we like togo to barbecue bits here we're gonna
share some information of everythingthat you may want to consider in
your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.
Mike (26:20):
We have a party and some people have large events and when
they have a large event, I meanit could be 25, 30, 40, 50 people.
Right.
And we want to have drinksfor everybody, right.
And so it, standard refrigerator'snot gonna keep pace with that.
Mm-hmm.
So to walk me through this solution.
Bobby (26:40):
We see a lot of people that have drop in coolers.
Uh, a drop in cooler would be whereyou'd put your drinks in and add ice,
and it'll hold for a couple of days.
But this is constant.
This requires a one 10 power.
Uh, it can hold up to108 cans, uh, or bottles.
This is only 24.
They make it two sizes, 24 and 36.
(27:01):
Um, this would build either buildin or you can get a wheel kit.
It can be freestanding.
This is something a lot of youknow about but have not specified.
And, uh, it's began popularity, um,here in our DFW market within the la
within the last two or three years.
Um, and it's a volume server, likeyou said, instead of going inside
(27:23):
and out of the house, you can seetop down, you can put glasses in
there, you can put a wine bottle, awhite wine bottle, or two in there.
It's something that will define youto be different when you specify
versus any of your competition.
Mike (27:35):
Okay,
Bobby (27:36):
so how do we deal with this bottle cap?
Uh, in a built in?
This is a good question.
This is only mounted here for displaypurposes, but we would probably put
it around the end of the cabinets.
What we would do, or up front is what youdo, this would be all of your dema, uh,
your, uh, import, uh, beers that don'thave the spinoff tops or any of your pops
and things like that, or, or soft drinks.
Um.
(27:57):
Cream sodas, things like that.
Specialty drinks.
Mike (27:59):
Okay, so this is gonna be mounted just like you had to do a drop in,
co go off the top of the counter.
So
Bobby (28:05):
it's just reaching.
That's right.
It's gonna be a slide top.
Um, also you can, thisis the serving shelf.
Your finished top can go overthe top of this to hide this.
If it's extremely busy.
You'll see a lot of this in restaurants.
They'll take off the top itselfand it will keep the drinks.
Cool.
If there's constant.
People that are getting inside of it, itwill domicile all the air down in below.
(28:27):
You wanna be careful on the setting ofthis, not to set it down too low with
the top one 'cause it can freeze drinks.
Mike (28:32):
Okay.
Yep.
Awesome.
Yep.
Bobby (28:34):
Pretty cool.
That's a cool detail to consider.
Well, thank you.
Yep.
BBQ End (28:37):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today,
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.
Mike (28:51):
back to the fire pit.
One thing is you wanna leave enough spacearound a fire pit for your furniture.
Again, you're trying to figureout how many people are gonna
sit around this fire pit.
some people do four foot.
Trey (29:05):
Away from the fire or away from the actual fire pit.
Away.
From the fire
Mike (29:09):
pit.
Okay.
Four foot, because thatyou can put a chair there.
Yeah.
I don't like forefoot because itdoesn't give me any flexibility.
Okay.
Now if I'm gonna use a fire pitand it's cold all the time, then
four foot would probably work.
But in Texas it gets hot.
Yeah.
Like now.
Okay.
And some people still are like, I'dlike to go cook out and have, roasted
(29:31):
marshmallows for the 4th of July.
Yeah.
Okay.
But it's plenty hot at that point in time.
So I like to have six foot ofpaving outside of my fire pit
at least so I can move my chair.
Okay.
So in the summer I wanna move twofeet farther away from the fire
so people can walk in front of me.
In the fire pit and I'm fartherdistance away in the wintertime, I
(29:56):
wanna move up close and have themwalk behind me to get to the fire.
So yeah, if I have a five foot outsidefire ring, six feet and six feet, I
need a 17 foot area by 17 foot area,which that's a big area for a fire pit.
And so a lot of people will consider usingan appliance instead of a built in unit.
(30:19):
Okay.
Because with an appliance,they can move it.
now some people are goingto use a unit that's got a
little propane gas tank in it.
Yeah.
And so they can light theirfire feature from that.
And the one thing that also comesinto play is if it's an appliance and
it's movable, generally those don'thave to be approved by the city.
Trey (30:44):
Yeah.
Mike (30:44):
Every city I'm sure is gonna be different.
And this again, fires one ofthe most modified codes that has
occurred in the last five years
Trey (30:53):
naturally.
'cause it's so destructive.
Mike (30:55):
and more and more people are doing things.
And more and more cities are running intoproblems 'cause people do stupid things.
And so they write codes to protectfrom people doing stupid things.
Well,
Trey (31:06):
Taste is getting, a little bit better.
You know, look at what Fire by design.
Yeah.
Everyone's pushing limitsnow, so the industry's growing
and Yeah, that makes sense.
Mike (31:14):
we've used several Luma cast units lately on projects.
And Luma cast makes some modernlooking appliance fire features.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, Some people just go,order something online and get it
delivered and then what happensis they store it off season.
Yeah.
So what happens is now the 17 by17 area could be set up for, hey,
(31:38):
a table that sits eight people or10 people comfortably because the
fire pit's not there in the middle.
Trey (31:45):
Yeah.
And then you have stuff that's like thesmokeless fire pits where you actually use
a wood to burn it or use wood as a fuel.
Yeah.
Mike (31:52):
So then there's the solo stove.
Yeah.
And that type of situation'sgot really popular too.
Is a also a unit that's a portableunit for actually burning wood.
Which doesn't generate a smoke.
Yes.
So there's a lot of smokelessunits that are out there now.
Solo happens to be thebrand of one that I have.
(32:13):
But they're really nice in that aspect.
And then there's some people that arelike, I have to have a Woodburn fire.
A lot of them do a fireplace.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because now we can control the smoke.
Yeah.
Smoke goes up thechimney, it's dissipated.
We're not having a problem with the crowd.
Although from a gatheringstandpoint, you're not gonna put
(32:34):
12 people around a fireplace.
Trey (32:36):
No.
But it can be in an areawhere 12 people are at.
Yeah.
Which I think the fireplace is very key.
'cause it's also, you're adding theelement of, you're maybe able to
put a TV here too, so you know thegrandpa or dad or whoever might be
that you might not really want to.
Associate with the conversations somepeople are having already at a fire pit,
(32:58):
they can chill with everyone and stillhave a good time 'cause they're busy
watching TV or whatever it might be.
And then, you can have a outdoorliving grill area behind them
and someone's cooking up andso yeah it's, very versatile.
Mike (33:10):
the fireplace, the typical scenario is I want a couch in two chairs there.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna sit fivepeople in that space.
Now, a couch, some couches aresix feet by two and a half feet.
But then some couches are eight feet by.
Three to three and a half feet.
So you gotta understand also the scaleof the furniture you might be using.
(33:35):
Yeah.
In the space.
' cause there can be some big massdifferences in just what we're using.
A lot of people with a moremodern is a little more sleek
and clean lines and smaller.
Although I had somebody the otherday, it's like, we want mid-century
modern, but we're not a hilltop.
So we're realistic in the factthat we know our mid-century modern
furniture will blow into the pool.
(33:56):
Yeah.
And so
Trey (33:57):
I was thinking about that job with like a hundred people.
I was just thinking about all thecushions that could be blowing around.
Yeah.
Just chasing 'em down during a storm.
Jeez.
Mike (34:05):
And squirrels would have a field day too, right?
Yeah, yeah.
All those cushions.
What you look at with the fireplaces, howmuch furniture, so some people are like,
I want it big enough for three couches.
To sit around So people can gather.
that's a really cool situation as well.
Although I should probablyback up a second on the fire
pit, 'cause I forgot something.
(34:27):
What'd you forget?
The sunken fire pit?
Yes.
Trey (34:30):
Which typically that's built in seating, which you
can't really push back and forth.
Knowing that distance is probably key.
Mike (34:37):
So usually you're exactly right.
Usually between the fire pit andthe front of the bench is two feet.
Okay.
And I, when I first did that,I was like, that's too tight.
There's no way someone could sit thereand someone could walk around this thing.
Okay.
But you can, yeah.
Okay.
So two feet's, generally thedimension that people have.
(34:57):
Then you have this built in seating.
And so with that you can get alot more people into a space.
You have to figure out howyou're gonna sink this.
The other thing that becomes criticalwith a sunken fire pit is drainage.
Big time.
How do you get the water out of the space?
Because it rains in most places.
Yeah.
And so you have to figure that.
(35:18):
Although I've know some buildersare like it's not that big a deal
'cause it doesn't happen that often.
And every place is different.
Here we try to use gravity as muchas we can and therefore get water out
of the space with a gravity drain orhave it sunken on maybe three sides.
And the fourth side,it's actually a grade.
(35:38):
Which we can do a lot of times.
Some places use sub pumps.
So
Trey (35:42):
with those places that use sub pumps, I would assume they're
making sure that nothing electricis in that area, because worst case
scenario, that becomes a pool, right?
So you don't want to like, not justsunken fire pits, but there's also
sunken cabanas and barbecue areas becausethey're gonna be that poolside bar.
So this, concept appliesto multiple things.
Mike (36:02):
I know in Houston it's flatter a pancake.
Okay?
every place down there, they dopractically, they're not gonna be
able to work with natural gradeto get water out of a sunken area.
Yeah.
And they do sump pumps all the time.
And what you have to understand is aslong as your sump pump is working and
serviceable, then your space is safe.
But when that sump pump fails, if you'vegot electronics like you're talking
(36:26):
about an electronic fire pit, you'vegot a. Refrigerator outlets down there.
Outlets, yeah.
Outlet, refrigerator.
Yeah.
You're gonna get damaged by the water.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So it's just something you haveto understand the risk and reward
if you're looking at a space.
Okay.
Here, because of the way that we haveto topography, a lot of times we can set
it up where we don't have to do that.
(36:48):
That's the reward aspect of itis where there's minimal risk
because we can work with gravity.
Yeah.
Trey (36:54):
We have a
Mike (36:54):
nice canvas.
So your sunken fire pit, you knowyou're gonna be able to put more chairs,
not chairs, butts and seats, benches'cause you're gonna have benches.
Now if you do benches, one thing you wantto consider from that is it's critical to
understand where the cushions are going.
Yes.
Are there cushions goingon the seating portion?
(37:15):
Are there cushions goingon the back portion?
Trey (37:18):
Are you gonna have armrests?
Mike (37:19):
Are you gonna have are you gonna have an armrest?
No, it's gonna be pitched, yeah.
Is there gonna be an angle on theback so it's not straight up and down?
Yeah.
So these are all important thingsthat you have to consider with
a built-in seating aspect of
Trey (37:33):
it.
Also, how deep is theseat gonna be as well?
Like how deep can you get before youcan't even lean back on that thing.
It's pretty much a bed at that point.
Mike (37:42):
Well There's some people that, like we did one that there was a section
that was set up to be like a day bed.
Yep.
But then the interior designerso loved the woodwork that we did
that she decided she didn't wantto cover anything with a cushion.
Trey (37:57):
What a comfy bed.
Mike (37:58):
The daybed area wasn't that comfortable place to hang out
because you're just sitting on wood
Trey (38:04):
unless you like sleeping on the floor, yeah.
Mike (38:06):
Anyway so it's just, there's always form aesthetics versus function
issues that you have to look at tocome up with what's the best situation.
So
Trey (38:15):
you gotta write a book upon that.
Yeah.
Because you, you're a very bigstickler when it comes to that stuff.
Check.
Mike (38:20):
It's just you gotta understand, 'cause I've screwed all these things up
over the years, then you get another layerof, oh, let's make sure we take care of
this 'cause we don't wanna do this again.
The first built-in fire pits that wedid, none of them had tapered backs.
It was just straight up and down.
Yeah.
'cause that's the way we built everything.
And then it was like, duh.
Look at a chair.
(38:41):
There's not a single chair out therethat's got a straight up and down back.
They all have a littlebit of a pitch on them.
Yeah.
Although there's a few dining roomchairs that I've seen that, I swear
they were straight up and down.
Oh yeah.
People wanted to have astiff back and sit upright.
No slouching in those chairs.
Not my kind of chair.
Trey (38:59):
You'll have to tie me to the back of it
Mike (39:00):
anyway.
one of the things you mentioneda minute ago was a tv.
And a TV in a lot of outdoor livingspaces is a very popular thing to do.
Oh yeah.
there are countless people.
That I worked with in the past that werelike, I need a cabana with a fireplace.
And my question was, why?
(39:21):
And they're like, 'causewe wanna watch a tv.
And I'm like, so you're gonnabuild a $25,000 cabana and put a
$15,000 fireplace in it so you canput a TV in so you can watch it.
Trey (39:34):
A couple grand for the TV too.
A
Mike (39:35):
couple grand for the tv.
And they're like, yeah.
And I said, have you heardof outdoor rated TVs?
And they're like what'san outdoor rated tv?
Outdoor rated tv?
You can take a sprinkler hoseand just run it right onto it.
Trey (39:48):
Yep.
Mike (39:49):
And it's fine.
It's set up where it handles glare better.
Because it's designed to be outside.
The other thing is it's sealed,which is really important.
'cause bugs are what gets into a lotof TVs and actually causes them to go
Trey (40:03):
bad.
That's the most commonway a TV goes bad outside.
Yeah.
And people to the argument will say,oh, I'll just put a cover on it.
We're not gonna put a coveron it every single night.
If you're entertaining outsideone night out of the whole
year, you're gonna forget.
And then it just takes one bug.
Mike (40:18):
what happens is you're gonna spend, and it used to be a big cost
difference between an outdoor rated tv.
Yeah.
Indoor rated tv.
But now we're talkingthousands of dollars.
Two or $3,000 in difference in costversus I'm gonna build a $25,000 cabana
and build in a $15,000 fireplace.
(40:38):
So now I'm invested $40,000into where my TV goes.
I can spend a couple thousand moreand I can put the TV anywhere.
Trey (40:45):
someone like that might be like, if I'm not, gonna
put the TV on the fireplace.
where am I gonna put the tv?
It's just gonna be on a polein the middle of the yard.
Mike (40:52):
I've done that.
Okay.
And then we've also done just ascreen wall that the TV's mounted on.
Trey (41:00):
You put on your house too.
House.
Yeah.
The thing
Mike (41:01):
is, it can be in an arbor.
Mm-hmm.
Not necessarily a solid roof structure.
gives you flexibilityplus it performs better.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's something.
The other thing that's cominginto play is the size of TVs.
Because we used to build a six footwide fireplace and we put a TV over it.
Yeah.
People were like, that'snot a very big tv.
(41:24):
'Cause it's only five feet acrossif I leave six inches on both sides.
Trey (41:28):
Yeah.
Mike (41:29):
And scale wise, we don't want it look like it's swallowed an eighth.
That fireplace.
So then we started building sevenfoot wide fireplaces just so we
could accommodate a bigger tv.
Yeah.
I just did a project and theywere like it's not big enough.
So we made the sides ofthe fireplace even bigger.
Trey (41:46):
Someone that's listening to this might be like, what does it
mean it's not big enough if the TVoverhangs the fireplace it looks funky
when you see the sides of the tv.
Mike (41:55):
Yeah.
Trey (41:56):
Overhanging
Mike (41:56):
it.
So usually you wanna do arecess panel into the fireplace
and put the TV into that.
We used to do wooden boxes and, we'dopen 'em up in the tv, be in there.
I haven't seen one of those in a decade.
Trey (42:10):
A big trend now is they have these really nice industrial mount systems
where you can pretty much turn it andpull it out and that way if you're,
in the patio, everyone can see it.
Or if you'all are out, out at thepool or in the hot tub, you can turn.
Completely 90 degrees or whatever youwanna do and extend it three feet out.
(42:30):
It's really cool.
I love TVs by the way so
Mike (42:32):
yeah.
We actually had a client that I met withthis week that, that was the exact 'cause
the, they were like the spa's right inline with the face of the fireplace.
Yeah.
And they're like, so we'll haveto be able to just turn it nine
degrees, but that's not a big deal.
You know the structure thatyou need for that is flexible.
(42:52):
There's also, there's TVs that come upout of the ground and telescope out.
Oh yeah.
Fold out.
And you can have a massive tv.
Trey (43:02):
Yeah.
Or you could just put it in a vaultand it could just pop right up.
Mike (43:05):
Yeah.
So you can have it.
Yes.
Doesn't
Trey (43:07):
even need to fold.
I've seen the folding onesnow, and that's crazy.
Yes.
You mentioned the other day and Ihad never seen one, and I saw Danny
Wink post it on his Instagram.
I was like, oh, of course.
There it's crazy.
Mike (43:16):
Yeah.
So we've tried to get them on the podcast.
We haven't got there yet.
But there's some really interestingthings you can do with audio and visual.
So there's people that are doing,projectors that, are on big side areas.
So there's a lot of different thingsthat you can do that's available on
the market that you don't necessarilyhave to put inside of a structure.
Trey (43:38):
With audio, I think back when you built your pool they had
technology to have underwater speakers.
The technology is, a lot ofoptions out there that are wild.
Mike (43:47):
that's a episode that's hopefully upcoming soon is on audio and all its
capabilities that we can do outside.
Yeah.
a lot of people start with a structure.
When they talk about outdoorliving space, we wanna look at a
structure that we're going to use.
And that structure, you have tounderstand what you're looking at it for.
(44:12):
Okay.
So there's structures that are justfor shade and there's structures
that are for rain protection.
There's structures that, you'regonna look at different sizes, you're
gonna look at different materials.
So you have to understand whatyou want this structure to do.
Just
Trey (44:30):
also extending the patio or going to a isolated structure.
Mike (44:34):
Okay, so that's an excellent point.
The last design I just didyesterday the backyard was small.
And so from the house to theback fence was about 35 feet.
Okay.
So the number one thing to look atwhen you're gonna do a structure that's
attached to the home is you have tounderstand what the rear building line is.
(44:57):
So on your survey, almost everysurvey shows the front building line.
Trey (45:02):
Yeah.
Mike (45:03):
Almost all of them are 25 feet.
That's a very popular size.
Sometimes they're bigger than that, butmost of the, and sometimes they're smaller
than that, but most of 'em are 25 feet.
And almost every house in theneighborhood will be pushed all the
way up to where it touches that line.
Trey (45:19):
Yeah.
Mike (45:20):
Then you have a rear building line.
As well as side building lines.
Most of the time thosearen't on the survey.
Trey (45:26):
This is for the home itself.
Mike (45:28):
This is for the home itself.
Trey (45:31):
So you're talking about if it's attached, then it
becomes part of the home?
Mike (45:34):
That's exactly right.
Okay.
If it's attached, itbecomes part of the home.
Trey (45:38):
I've never heard of a rear building line ever.
That's
Mike (45:40):
that makes sense though.
We, the one that we met with theother day Yeah I looked it up and
the rear building line was 25 feet.
Okay.
yard was only like 35 feet deep.
That means all I could addto the house was 10 feet.
And they wanted a full dining area anda full kitchen area and a fireplace.
Trey (45:59):
Yeah.
And some seating areas
Mike (46:01):
that doesn't fit the furniture stacked on top of each other.
Takes up more than 10 feet.
Trey (46:06):
Yeah.
Can you do a two story, three story?
Like, how's this gonna work?
So
Mike (46:10):
now most cities have different rules if it's detached from the home.
Now that same city said it hasto be six feet off the property.
If it's detached from the home.
Trey (46:25):
This is why step one and two are very important.
Mike (46:27):
Yes.
So you've got a differenceof 19 feet there.
Yeah.
That's possible.
So then the critical thing isto understand from the city what
is it required to be detached?
Now, in some cities, this city in has inpoint all that you have to be away from.
The existing home is an inch.
(46:49):
Wow.
It's now detached.
Trey (46:51):
Interesting.
Mike (46:52):
Okay.
Some cities requireyou to be 10 feet away.
Yeah.
And the reason why is it's fire code.
They want you to, if a structurecatches on fire, it won't jump to the
next structure if it's 10 feet away.
You have to understand what theirdefinition of detached is in
almost every city's different.
(47:13):
And so these are all things that arereally important when you look at your
structure on how close you can be.
the city of Frisco was really good.
They would allow you to callup on the individual piece of
property and they would tellyou exactly what the rules were.
So some cities are like,oh, go look at our codes.
And you have to read through it andfigure everything out and understand.
(47:35):
And hopefully they haven't changedanything, as you go through stuff.
As you're designing these structures, youhave to understand in some cities a solid
roof structure has a different code thanan arbor with an open roof structure.
And most cities consider a louveredarbor a solid roof because it
will be solid most of the time
Trey (47:57):
you're talking about roof square footage for permeable or
Mike (48:01):
permeability.
Yeah.
That becomes an issue as well.
Yeah.
So you have to look at that froma calculation standpoint of what's
possible with your settings.
'cause there's more and more cities.
That's becoming an a real big issuebecause the drain systems for the
city initially were calculated ona 2,500 square foot home, which
(48:23):
is now being tore down and they'reputting in a 8,000 square foot home.
So there's a lot more roofarea, there's less runoff.
There's a lot more runoff.
Yeah.
And so less place for itto go into the ground.
So there's a calculationthat you have to follow.
Trey (48:37):
There's builders out there where they will build a house
and it's actually past the limit.
And you're, and you might be trying todesign something that with something
in the backyard of structure, and youdon't even have any room in the builder,
might not even have room, they to cuttheir, the roof square footage down.
Mike (48:52):
So there's builders that go get a variance for their house Yeah.
And got approved becausethey went over the limit.
But then when you come in to dosomething, they're already over the limit.
Yeah.
So you don't have aprayer of doing anything.
Or, so when you look at thesestructures, you have to understand
how you're gonna use the space.
(49:13):
So now one thing that comesin, okay, I want some shade,
or I want rain protection.
And I don't have thecapability to add anything.
What you can put in umbrella.
Oh.
Okay.
There's umbrellas that havecanopies that are 14 by 14.
Trey (49:28):
Yeah.
Mike (49:29):
It's the size of a, small room.
There's not a code that requires that.
So there's some places that you can dosales that you're fabric that you put
up that can create a shade structure.
There's also retractable shadesails, which are structures that
have fabric that you can pull backand open so you can allow different
(49:53):
degrees of sun or shade into a space.
Trey (49:55):
Is that something you would put on the side of the patio?
Because I feel like a lot, likeinitially when someone talks about a
structure, typically they want to extendtheir patio that they already have.
Mike (50:05):
those are options that you could consider.
Okay.
Okay.
When you create something that's a solidroof, what you wanna do is look at.
Can we match the existingmaterial that's on the roof?
Oh yeah.
up until today or up untilFriday that was always a, yeah,
that's not a problem at all.
We can come in and match that situation.
(50:26):
We have a custom home that was constructeda number of years ago that used a
designer roofing shingle, and that roofingshingle was discontinued 15 years ago.
So now we're going to add on a solid roofthat's extended off the home attached.
We can't get a shingle that matches it.
Trey (50:47):
Not perfectly
Mike (50:48):
now either.
It's gonna be the wrongtexture or the wrong color.
So we're gonna have a meetingwith the homeowner to discuss.
The options of it.
'cause he may we're notsure what he'll pick.
Or we could use come in with a steelroof that would be totally different.
But we've gotta set up how wetransition those materials.
So those are all things that you have tothink about when you're doing a structure.
(51:10):
Now when Arbor that hasPoly Gal on top of it,
Trey (51:15):
you remember the name, I remember the name, I couldn't.
Mike (51:17):
We'll provide a fairly solid surface and be a lower cost
point than a solid roof would be.
Yeah.
Now the other thing, when you're attachingto a home, a lot of times what you have
to look at is, are there second storywindows that your ridge and roof is gonna
go up and project in front of that window?
Trey (51:36):
Yeah.
And roof lines in general.
Mike (51:37):
And so you have to figure out how all those pieces are
gonna go together as well.
And then you have to figure out.
Is it gonna be a gable roof?
Is it gonna be a shed roof?
Is it gonna be a hip roof?
There's all different styles ofroofs that you can look at, and
what you usually look at is whatmatches the architecture of the home.
So all these things blend together.
Trey (51:57):
Yeah.
This one concept that, like I've seena bunch of I guess they're trying
to extend the patio and they added astructure right next to it, and it's
not built into the side of the home.
And it looks like it's been added onafter the fact, versus trying to make it
look like it was built with the house.
Mike (52:15):
Yeah.
So again, there's formand there's function.
there's function and there's aesthetics.
some people are gonna look at.
I just wanna stay dry.
I don't care what it looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And this is $10,000 cheaperthan to look like something
that matched up with a home.
Yeah.
I mean, Everybody's different in whattheir acceptance level is in that aspect.
Trey (52:37):
City codes are different too.
So that could play a factor into
Mike (52:40):
Oh that's a big deal.
So one of the challenges I'verun into with cities also is
they limit the height to 10 feet.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
It's hard to put a, roof onsomething and stay under 10 feet in
Trey (52:54):
height, especially if there's windows, big windows.
Mike (52:56):
So on your new structure
Trey (52:59):
No.
On the home, if the structure'sbuilt into the home, yeah.
Mike (53:02):
So 10 feet basically you'd be flat.
Yeah.
So that's where a lot of times youcan't come in with a typical roof
pitch because you have to tie in andyou can't go over a certain height.
I've had several cities that I'vegotten variances on by going in front
of a city council or something likethat to allow a different height
(53:23):
than what's standard by the city.
Some things also that comeinto play is the difference.
Distance.
Your structure is gonna have tobe away from the, if you have
water with a swimming pool.
Mm-hmm.
That's something that sometimescities are like, it's five feet.
what they're looking at is, someof them, they're looking at the
(53:44):
electrical lights, fixtures inthe structure relative to water.
Although you can get intolow voltage type situations.
The other thing you can look atis you can get variances too for
those based on, depth the pool tothe foundation of the structure.
So there's lots of differentthings to look at there.
(54:06):
When you're looking at a structure
In protection.
Now when you have a structure, wementioned briefly earlier about
screens to protect you from wind.
There's some people that wanna putscreens up to protect you from bugs.
Some people also want screens toprovide you shade uh, or keep the
Trey (54:25):
heat in if they have heaters as well.
Correct.
Mike (54:27):
So those are all reasons that people like to do retractable screens,
which if you know that you're going to dothose, those could be built into columns.
So the tracks are very non-visible.
But they can also bedone with add-ons later.
It's just the tracking system's gonna be alittle bit more visible that you look at.
(54:49):
We mentioned a hybrid where you could openand shut it with a louver type situation.
Those.
Work really well, because those are flat.
And so if you have a heightrestriction, those are something
that can work usually with thoseheights that you're working with.
Are
Trey (55:05):
you talking about like the blinds type screen?
Mike (55:08):
Like an Equinox or an Apollo structure,
Trey (55:10):
but vertically and not a roof.
Oh, you're actually talkingabout the structure.
Okay.
The structure itself.
Okay.
Mike (55:14):
Yeah.
But one of the things that's reallyimportant for people, they've
got this outdoor living space.
We've looked at different furniturethat you're gonna put in the space.
We, we've looked at, where you're gonnagather and how many is an average.
But one of the big things tothink about also is the kitchen.
So that's gonna be anotherstep that we're gonna go into.
(55:38):
And we will jump intothat in a little bit.
Sounds good.
Hopefully this has beenhelpful information.
And if it has been, then, share itwith your friends, pass it on, give
us a thumbs up, whatever works well.
We want to give you different steps toconsider as you look at your project.
And from here we're gonnalook at, outdoor kitchens.
(55:58):
The other thing that we're gonna lookat is pools and things that, that are
gonna make your backyard a great oasis.
So, If you've got other questions,please let us know those, and we'll
look forward to talking to you soon.
Trey (56:11):
Y'all have a good one.
Outro (56:12):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're gonna findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a
pool in the future or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
(56:36):
We wanna be that resource for you, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.
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