Ep 102 Pickleball and Other Sports Courts for the Luxury Outdoor Living Space

Mike and Trey Farley welcome Scott Armstrong from Synthetic Turf Experts to discuss the evolution of backyard sports courts. With over 40 years of experience at Farley Pool Designs, the hosts delve into the design and installation of various courts, including pickleball, tennis, and basketball, as well as multi-sport setups and emerging trends like sunken trampolines and in-ground trampolines. Scott shares insights on materials, maintenance, and the importance of proper drainage and slopes, while also touching on common homeowner questions and potential pitfalls to avoid in backyard transformations. Special segments include 'True Crime' stories from the field and 'Barbecue Bits' for enhancing outdoor living spaces.

 

Discover more:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/synturfexperts/

https://www.farleypooldesigns.com/ https://www.instagram.com/farleydesigns/ https://www.instagram.com/luxuryoutdoorlivingpodcast/ https://www.instagram.com/poolzila/

 

00:00 Introduction to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast 01:17 Meet the Hosts: Mike and Trey Farley 01:40 Special Guest: Scott Armstrong from Synthetic Turf Experts 03:09 The Rise of Pickleball and Sports Courts 05:03 Building and Maintaining Sports Courts 12:19 Lighting and Fencing for Sports Courts 19:30 Basketball Goals and Custom Logos 22:05 Versa Court Tiles and Surface Options 26:14 BBQ Bits: Fire Place Media 30:19 Using Existing Decking for Sports Courts 31:57 Innovative Sunken Trampolines 34:03 Trampoline Safety and Family Stories 35:44 Cost Considerations for Pickleball Courts 36:38 Sports Court Drainage Solutions 38:31 Turf and Court Maintenance Tips 43:24 True Crime: Construction Mishaps 47:54 Unique Backyard Sports Setups 54:02 Guest's Personal Favorites and Closing Remarks  

Episode Transcript

Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we've helpedhomeowners turn their backyards
into personal retreats, spaces ofjoy, relaxation and unforgettable
memories, and whether it's a cozy as.
Scape or a resort style oasis.
We design it all.

(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel, and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping you.
The process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips that
turn your vision into reality.

(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment.
If you have any questions, ideas, orjust want to be part of the conversation,
if you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.

Mike (01:17):
Good afternoon, everybody.
This is Mike Farley fromLuxury Outdoor Living Podcast
sponsored by Farley Pool Designs.
And here with my wonderful co-host

Trey (01:27):
Trey Farley.

Mike (01:28):
we've got a fun subject to talk about today.
lots of fun.

Trey (01:31):
Oh, yeah.
I love sports.
I play sports all the timefor just fitness in general.
And this can be a really good onebecause it, it lines up really
well with luxury outdoor living.

Mike (01:39):
Yeah.
we have Scott Armstrong from SyntheticTurf Experts, who also is a sports
court expert, and he's gonna share hiswisdom and knowledge with us today.
So welcome, Scott.

Scott (01:51):
Hello, guys.
How are y'all?

Mike (01:53):
Doing well on this fabulous summer day fall's coming soon.
we're blessed with lots ofgreat weather here in Texas.
So although you must enjoy thissummer and the fact that it's
been one of the cooler ones, huh.

Scott (02:04):
We got teased a little or two weeks ago.
Dropped down quite a bit.
Definitely hot this weekend.
Looks like next weekendit'll be a little better.
definitely been a better summeroverall than we usually get.

Mike (02:14):
I'm just curious, how does one become a sports court expert?
How did your journey begin in all this?
Is this something that, just played alot of ball like Trey to begin with?

Scott (02:25):
No honestly, I skateboarded professionally when I was young, so

Trey (02:29):
That's cool.
Getting

Scott (02:30):
into this was I worked at a pool company.
We cleaned a ton of pools and built poolsand Larry Long was our neighbor and he
does a lot of basketball hoops still does.
This is 20 years ago and That led usdown the road into a sport court company
and had some putting greens on the side.

(02:50):
And, the sport courts are gonna turn intotennis courts and we used to always put
pickleball courts on the tennis courts,and nowadays it's just pickleball.
So it's funny how thingsevolve and turn out.
used to wonder how many peopleplayed pickleball on those tennis
courts and nowadays they'renot even doing the tennis.
It's almost a thing of the past.
It's not, definitelypickleball is big right now.

Trey (03:11):
Yeah.
That happens so quick too.

Scott (03:13):
Yeah.
It was just like, boom, here we are.
It's pickleball.
Doing the courts with the swimmingpools the owner that I was working with
eventually got out of building the poolsand is just a pool cleaning company now.
And he didn't care for the courts.
He really didn't care for the turf andthe turf manufacturer in Dalton, Georgia
called me and said, Hey we'll backyou if you want to go out on your own.

(03:33):
And so I talked to Larry and two of ushave been working together for 20 years.
First project we did was a tenniscourt with a putting green, and a
lot of times they fall in together.
So we've done probably every kindof sport there is in a backyard.
Feel like we're specialists at that.
Whether it's pickleball, tennis, courtcutting, green bocce ball, inground,

(03:55):
trampolines, we do everything.

Mike (03:57):
you've been doing it for 20 years?
would say the pendulum hasswung all over the place.
So 20 years ago, what was the mostpopular thing that you were doing?

Scott (04:06):
The sport courts were popular.
If somebody had the room and the money,tennis courts were probably the biggest.
Okay.
The turf was just coming around.
It wasn't until, and the manufacturerstell you this, once it was in Lowe's
and Home Depot and more peoplesee it, it becomes more popular.
And that's where the turf is these days.
The courts went from tennis courtsto sport courts, and I think that

(04:27):
has to do with the size of the yards.
'Cause me and Larry joke, if somebodycalls us and says, I want a tennis court,
it's like, okay, well how much room doyou have and how much money do you have?
'cause they're big and concrete'sexpensive that got down to where
it was more sport courts alwaysdoing a ton of basketball goals.
And then the pickleball thing, likeyou said, just almost came out nowhere
and it's almost hard to keep up.
Right now.

(04:47):
There's a ton of pickleballcourts being built.
They're more accessibleto somebody's backyard.
And they can be scaled down.
You would prefer that you havea little bit larger court, so
you have some area around it.
But if somebody wants it, theycan squeeze it into a backyard.
They, can do that wayeasier than a tennis court.
Yeah.

Mike (05:03):
So is there a particular size that is typically done
commonly with a pickleball court?

Scott (05:10):
The out of bounds lines are 20 by 44.
Usually building them around 30 by 55.
That gives you some areas out of it.
You could put benches, you cansit down, you can stand around.
It's just easier.
You're not cramped.
But that's, the pickleball courts, ifsomebody said, oh, I have 20 by 44 you're
gonna have to have some more room aroundthat somewhere in the 30 by 50 range.

Mike (05:30):
Yeah.
If you don't have any room,then it's more like racketball.
You're bouncing off the fenceand the walls and everything.
So This is rabbit hole I'm goingdown, but does anybody ever
do a outdoor racketball court?

Scott (05:43):
I haven't seen them.
I, what is it, Huntington or Venice Beach?

Mike (05:46):
Yeah.
I,

Scott (05:47):
They have some walls built where guys are playing racquetball
and handball along the beach.
But I. I don't know that we'veever built one that was outside.

Mike (05:54):
I grew up in Lubbock and they had outdoor racketball courts at
tech and we used to go up thereand play and we called 'em sweat
boxes because yeah, it was brutal.
Was there no roof?
No, it was a chain link on the roof.

Trey (06:08):
Okay.

Mike (06:08):
Concrete walls and concrete walls.
I, when I said that, I was like, man,I've never seen it since then, okay.
Flashback to history in Lubbock, Texasin the seventies and early eighties.
so pickleball courts, you would say isthe most popular thing that y'all do now?

Scott (06:25):
it's on fire right now.

Mike (06:26):
And is that res for people's homes as well as commercial applications?

Scott (06:31):
There's a number of indoor facilities that are popping up and.
there's some guys who were gonnado an indoor tennis court facility
and they swapped to pickleballjust because it's so popular.
I wanna say it was 10 years now,maybe eight or 10 years ago, we were
going through Colorado and therewas a city park that had a ton of
pickleball courts and it was a tonof older people out playing on them.

(06:55):
They have good weather a little bitcooler up there than it is here.
But just the amount of older peoplethat I noticed on 'em, I thought,
that's, it's definitely a largercrowd or a larger base of customers.
The ones that are still very mobilecan get out there and play and, you're
not moving near as much as tennis.

Mike (07:10):
Do you see that done as a, I'm gonna do a pickleball court.
I'm gonna do a 30 by 55.
Do we typically pour that in concrete?
Is that the Yes.
The base material that's used?

Scott (07:23):
Yes.
You would prefer post tension.
Sometimes you're upagainst retaining walls.
You may not be able to use the cables.
You're gonna have to have room to stressthe cables after the concrete is poured.
But, you would prefer post tension.
It's longevity wise it's better and it'ssturdier more stability over the years.

Mike (07:41):
for people that don't know what post tension means, can you explain that?

Scott (07:46):
Yes.
If you're looking at 'em, builda sidewalk, then you're gonna see
the rebar grid that's put down.
lot of times they'll have thelittle feet, so it stands up in
the middle of the concrete and theypour the sidewalk and you're good.
We all know sidewalks crack.
So with post tension, it's likewhat you see on a house slab.
The cables are attached to one side.
They hang out three or fourfeet on the opposite side.

(08:07):
two sides don't havethe cables coming out.
Two sides do.
And once it's poured,you'll stress the cables.
They're cut off and little patchwork.
But it pulls the concretetogether and holds it.
for the movement that we get in Texasfoundation repairs and those kind
of things it's a more sturdy baseor foundation that's not gonna move.
'cause if you're getting movement oryou're getting cracks, it's gonna show

(08:28):
through the acrylic surfacing over time.
So post tension's the way to go if youhave the ability to do it, or the room.

Mike (08:35):
Okay.
So is that something that they need todo in all parts of the country or is
that something because of our soil thatwe have here, that it's recommended?

Scott (08:44):
It's recommended here for the soil.
I know concrete's poureddifferent in California.
Bases in general.
Foundations are a little differentout there than they are here.
just don't have the movement orthe weather or the up and down
tempts that we have here where,could be 82 1 day and 32 the next.
so we're getting the climateand the ground here moving.
The answer would be no.
I know up in Canada with the heaving andthe snow and the ice and the freezing

(09:08):
I'm not sure what they're having to doup there, but I know the base material
on the artificial turf of the puttinggreens is sometimes, twice what we would
do down here to account for that heaving

Mike (09:19):
for the frost line.
Yeah, I would sure that makes sense.
So you, they've got, youmentioned acrylic covering.
Yes.
what's that?
Does that go over the concrete?

Scott (09:29):
Yes.
Whenever you're looking at atennis court, blue and green is
probably the most popular color,but that isn't an acrylic surface.
Once the concrete is poured, itneeds to sit for 28 days and out
gas just so nothing's coming up.
You do a vapor barrier under theconcrete, which is a black plastic
that you'll see under a house slab.
It just stops moisture from comingthrough the concrete prep the

(09:51):
concrete, scrape it, and then you doa coat of black that has sand in it.
So once the coat of black withthe sand goes down then the color
goes on top two coats of color.
And a lot of people think that you justpaint with regular paint on these tennis
courts, but it's actually a surfacethat's designed to grab a little bit
with the sand that's included so thatyou're not just sliding your shoes

(10:13):
aren't sliding as you're running andgetting a ball or hitting a ball.

Trey (10:16):
So the sand's there for a grip?
Yes.
Okay.

Scott (10:18):
So it's always funny 'cause.
Most people look at 'em andthink they've just been painted.
But there is a process and let'ssay you didn't do a vapor barrier
you can, there's a mixture that youcan put down that, that helps keep
the water vapor from coming through.
It's not ideal, but it works.
It's a, there's ways you can get aroundit, but if you're starting from start
to finish, you would prefer or reallyrequire a vapor barrier under the plastic

(10:41):
before the acrylic surfacing is done.

Mike (10:43):
So you put the vapor barrier down and then you pour
the concrete on top of that?
Yes.
Okay.
And then you would be ableto come up with the acrylic
covering on top of the concrete.
Yes.
So do you ever use we do soilinjection with decks around pools and
patio areas to limit soil movement?

(11:06):
Instead of a vapor barrier.
Do you y'all ever do that with courts?

Scott (11:10):
Only on the larger projects.
East Park was one in Dallas that hada lot of tennis courts and pickleball.
They had a little bit different lines.
It was a, it was for young kids.
This was before the pickleballbecame very popular.
They were trying to scaledown courts for kids.
But yes, on those types ofprojects, there's thousands and
thousands of concrete they'redoing the soil stabilizer on those.
Typically when we're in a backyard,you're not covering enough

(11:32):
ground for that to be necessary.

Mike (11:34):
Cool.
So that's a pickleball court.
Do you use them where they're multisports, where it's not just pickleball?
Is there a combination ofthings that you do commonly?

Scott (11:47):
The most popular is having a basketball goal on one side or another.
it's 30 by 55, you would prefer thegoal to be on the 50 or 55 foot side.
But, depending on size and design, youhave a light pole in the middle that's
right by the net, then you may havethe basketball goal on either end.
But yes I usually tell customers, ifwe're doing this and it's this much
concrete in your yard, then let'sfigure out what all we can do on this.

(12:10):
What else can we add in?
What else can your kids use?
So that they're not just getting tired ofpickleball one day and not using it for
a week or two, they've got basketball.
They can do other things on it.

Mike (12:19):
So you mentioned something that I'm sure comes into play and people
don't think about it, which is lighting.
Yes.
So is lighting easy to do?
Is it hard to do withhomeowners associations?
So does it have to be certaindistances from fences or
certain height restrictions?

(12:40):
Tell us about what wecan do with lighting.

Scott (12:42):
So the homeowners association is gonna be different with everyone.
It really depends on what they wanna see.
But the lights, typically,they're non-directional lights.
They have shields that can go on 'emlet's say you're next door, you're in
a residential area and your lights aregonna shine onto the other house, or
that you're gonna bleed over a little.
You have guards that youcan put on 'em to stop that.
So the lights are just gonnabe where the court is and.

(13:06):
That helps a lot with HOAsor a residential setting.
There's different styles of lights.
They're not floodlights,they're sports lighting.
So that they help you see the ballbetter, they help illuminate better.
The floodlights are pretty directional.
They're just gonna be in your eyes.
The, you're looking for lightingthat's just keeping everything bright,
not really shining in your eyes.
But the homeowners associations, theirbiggest concern is are you bleeding

(13:30):
light over onto your neighbors andit's going in their bedroom windows.
That's probably the biggestchallenge with them.
And also lights, how in a neighborhood,extends the time that it could be used.
And I don't think a lot of people wantyour neighbor playing tennis or pickleball
at midnight, and that's, a lot of theHOAs will say if they're gonna say
no to the lights, that's the reason.
when it gets dark, y'allneed to stop basically.

Mike (13:51):
So you're saying some HOAs will not allow you to put
lights in at all, so that's Yes.
Yeah.
Real important to check on,

Scott (13:58):
yes, I've had a situation the neighborhood, I'm building a, it
was a sport court, but it was nextto a house that has a tennis court.
And the tennis court hada 10 foot fence in lights.
And the HOA is telling me that I can't doa 10 foot fence in lights on this court.
And I'm on the phone with them saying I'mlooking at the next door neighbor's house
and it has a 10 foot fence in lights.
And that was the first housebuilt in the neighborhood

(14:20):
before the HOA was established.
so they did the courtwhen they did the house.
so it was a challengeto get the fence done.
We weren't allowed to do thelights, but we were able to
get a 10 foot fence approved.
But that's a funny situation whenyou're just literally looking next
door at what you're wanting tobuild and they're telling you no.

Mike (14:36):
How tall are lights typically?
How tall do you want 'em to be?

Scott (14:40):
They're usually 15 to 18 feet.

Mike (14:42):
Okay.
And with a court, say a pickleballcourt, do you have two of those or four
of those, or what's an ideal situation?

Scott (14:50):
The job we're on right now has a basketball goal in the middle, on the 50
foot side, and then two lights beside it.
Some people will do, a lightpole on each side of the net.
It depends on how big the court is.
One of the last ones we did the basketballgoal just to fit in the backyard.
The basketball goal was onthe 30 foot side There's one
light pole where the net is.

(15:10):
And it has enough lightsto light everything up.
it was a kind of a tighter court notas much space to cover or to light up.

Mike (15:16):
So do people usually have a switch out at the court that
they turn that on and off with?
Or is it something that'sturned on from inside the house?
Or how do most people control that?

Scott (15:27):
They can do whatever they wanna do.
The electrician can hook it up howeverthey would like, if they wanna run
it to the house, if they wanna,have to go out to the court and
turn it on, it's really up to them.
As the electrical's being installedyou've definitely got options.

Trey (15:40):
Is that 15 to 18 foot light pole the most common type of lighting for
the tennis courts or pickleball courtsor basketball courts you're putting in?

Scott (15:48):
Yes.
You want 'em up high enough thatthey're, shining down on the court?
Yeah.
Okay.
I was at some baseball fields not longago, and the guy that ran the place we
were talking as we were walking out andit's nine o'clock at night or 10 o'clock
at night, and he pulls out his phone andturned off all the lights at this place.
So there's d different options these days.

(16:09):
And I didn't realize what hewas doing and it made me laugh,
there's options on the lighting.
You've got apps that you can do on thephone now that can control everything.
So it really just depends on what thecustomer wants, what their budget is,
and how they're wanting to control it.

Mike (16:20):
So you mentioned something else in there, which was fencing.
And you said 10 foot tall.
I know tennis courts in my park havefences that are up like that tall.
Do they typically want thesame height for pickleball?

Scott (16:35):
Pickleball?
A lot of 'em are four feet.
You're not.
Hitting it as much andit's not bouncing as much.
So some of the four feets that'sstill going over, but it's doable.
you start getting to a tennis ball,the bounciness of the tennis ball or
a basketball, a five to six foot fenceis not always gonna keep the ball in.
It's not gonna contain it.
So eight to 10 foot on a tenniscourt or a basketball court is ideal.

(16:59):
Most of the tennis courts that we're doingor we're seeing are four foot fencing.

Mike (17:03):
You say tennis or pickleball.

Scott (17:05):
Sorry.
Pickleball, sorry.

Mike (17:06):
Okay.
But tennis is usually eight to 10?

Scott (17:09):
Yes.

Mike (17:09):
Okay.
And are those typically chain link?

Scott (17:12):
Yes.
You prefer a lot of the commercialmay just be regular chain,
link, but residential, you'ddo the black vinyl chain link.
It's a better look for a yard.

Mike (17:20):
So my wife.
Is gonna wanna know theanswer to this question.
She grew up and she wasa big tennis player.
Yep.
And she was like, nobodyputs in backboards so you
can go practice by yourself.
is that just not a thingthat's done here in Texas?
Or is she's just notlooking in the right place?

Scott (17:40):
No I think longevity wise, those were being built outta wood and Correct.
They just weren't holding up andthey're warping or looking bad over
time and it doesn't seem like peopleare wanting 'em or asking for 'em.
They have a rebounder net that is like atrampoline, it has bungee cords all the
way around and you can hit into it andit's gonna bounce the ball back to you.

(18:03):
It's probably not as true asa backboard wall to hit on.
But again, I think just fromlooking at it as the longevity.
The wall.
The wall people aren't doing them.

Trey (18:13):
Okay.
Can you just make a, like a concretewall for one of the back the walls or no?

Scott (18:18):
You could, but then that gets into budget a lot of times and
people don't wanna spend the money.
That's true.

Mike (18:23):
Yeah.
And what's really toughis the grout joints.
Will send the ball a little bit.
Could be a little wonky.
Yeah.
Yeah.
and again, this is when I was living inCalifornia in Northern California, which
they get a ton of rain in the winter.
But no rain in the summer.
But, every tennis court hadbackboards which was great if
you wanted to play by yourself.

(18:43):
Or they're all wood.
Or?
They were all wood.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I've never seen one of them.

Scott (18:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm older, and when I look back or thinkabout it, they all had 'em for a while.

Mike (18:52):
Yeah.

Scott (18:52):
Almost every court.

Mike (18:53):
it was nice because a lot of times nobody wanted to play tennis with me.
'cause I was the one that wasbombing them clear over the fence.
I thought it was baseball.
I couldn't get my racquetball swingand my tennis swing to work together
But it was good they'd give me abucket of balls and say, practice,
see if you can figure this thing out.
So anyway okay.

Scott (19:13):
My kids go through stretches.
They'll play lacrosse,they'll play tennis.
They'll play golf.
they're baseball kids.
But it's funny to watch themplay other sports because they're
typically not the greatest at it.

Trey (19:23):
But I wanted to switch it up though.

Scott (19:24):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (19:26):
when we have a pickleball court and a basketball combination.
Is there like a recommendedbasketball gold that you want to
use that's like a really good one?
Or is that personal preference witheverybody or something like that?

Scott (19:41):
There is a brand ironclad that we use.
It is produced by First Teamand you have Goal Setter.
You have Gorilla.
The ironclad is a beefier goal.
It's gonna last longer.
And that's what we're alwayslooking at, me and Larry is,
how long is this gonna last?
Are we putting in the best?
that's the one that found that we prefer.
The Gorilla goals you can buythem at a sporting goods store.

(20:03):
They'll typically fade out overtime and a lot of times the
backboard is gonna haze up.
So if you're looking for a higherend goal, there's goal setter,
there's first team, there's ironcladthose are your more, I guess you
would say, professional style goals.

Mike (20:18):
Okay.
And are those do they makethem or they're adjustable or
are they a fixed 10 foot goal?

Trey (20:24):
They're adjustable.

Scott (20:25):
They're adjustable.
They do have a couple ofoptions that are non adjustable.
When you're looking at these at,they're typically a 60 inch backboard
or a 72 inch backboard, and they areadjustable from six foot to 10 foot.
most of 'em are doable by a kid.
They can adjust it up and down.

Mike (20:39):
So you said 60 or 72 inch backboard?

Scott (20:42):
Yes.

Mike (20:42):
Do you ever recommend, do you have a preference?

Scott (20:45):
Really is, if you've had to fit a pickleball cord into a tight backyard,
you may not wanna put a 72 inch goalon it because it's just overwhelming.
It's huge.
But if you're big time basketball,that might be what you want.
But, the 60 inch goal might helpthe the height fit pickleball court.
It might not look so overwhelming on it,

Mike (21:04):
you would definitely want a 72 hun Trey.
Yeah.
Oh yeah,

Scott (21:07):
I would.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most people do.
And

Mike (21:11):
Trey's a baller,

Scott (21:12):
is he?
Yeah.
I love basketball.
That's typically what peoplewant, and they, again, like
you build stuff for people.
I've built a tennis court for aguy that wasn't even gonna use it,
but all of his neighbors had 'em.
You're gonna build stuff for peoplethat, they don't care either way.
If the 60 is gonna look betterin this situation, then do it.
The people that are reallyinto basketball like you, Trey,
are, they're gonna want the 72.

Trey (21:31):
Yeah.

Mike (21:31):
the acrylic covering, can you do custom logos and stuff like that in it?

Scott (21:37):
You can.
It's time consuming.
De depending on what it is we usuallyhave a stencil for the jump man.
People want in the key area.
You can order some stencils pre-cut thatyou can put down for different colors.
Prefer like the jump man's one color.
It's easy, lay it down.
Paint it, you're outta there.
lot of other ones can get more laborintensive and they get expensive.

Trey (21:58):
Done.
Any maverick logos?

Scott (22:00):
Not the whole thing.

Trey (22:01):
No.

Scott (22:01):
A lot, A lot of times the people will look at it and then they'll just
do the colors to match the mavericks.
One thing we didn't talk aboutis there's a sport court tile.
You have a couple of surfacing options.
You can leave the concreteas is and paint lines on it.
You can do the acrylic surfacingor you can do the sport court style
tile, which we use Versa Court.
They're spring loaded.

(22:22):
They're supposed to take the loadin the, when you're jamming your
knees basically playing basketball.
The run and the stop andthe run and the stop.
So this tile is a little springy.
You're not gonna feel it, but itgives a little to take that off
your knees and put it into the tile.
That pressure.

Trey (22:35):
So it's like simulating wood in a way.

Scott (22:37):
Yes.
Okay.
And it's the most expensivesurface that you can do.
So a lot of times people are gonnalook and say, okay, I don't want it
to just be concrete with lines on it.
Now I'll do the acrylic.
The acrylic is more affordable andtennis players are like golfers.
They're a little picky.
And that's what they're used to playing on

Trey (22:52):
that tile.
I'm looking at it right now.
I just pulled it up.
is that durable?
Because I feel like if you're using it forlike multiple purpose things, I feel like
this might get scuffed up really easily.
I could be real.
No.
Okay.

Scott (23:03):
No.
It's durable.
You're gonna have to do a a roughbroom finish on the concrete.
Okay.
So that the feet of the tilehave something to grab onto.
you're putting tile on a, pre pouredsurface that's a little slick, then
you may have to redhead the packedinto the concrete to hold one side
so it's not sliding off because it'stypically not attached to the concrete

(23:24):
so that you have that movement ability.

Mike (23:26):
Okay.
So how big are these tiles?

Scott (23:29):
10 by 10.

Trey (23:30):
Okay.
Yeah I've used it before.
I remember growing up one ofthe parks where everyone used to
live they had it on their car.
It's like kind of the towel they had,it felt kinda like plastic in a way.
But yeah, it was weird.
But now that you're saying it makessense that it like lessens the blow
on your knees and stuff like that.

Scott (23:46):
the original tiles had one injection point in the middle,
so they would squirt the, the hotplastic into it and it would change
color once it sat out on the sun.
I don't believe it hadUV inhibitors in it.
So now the verta quartile hasmultiple injection points.
And it has UV inhibitors in itto help because once it's gonna

(24:08):
take a beating out in the sun,especially somewhere like Arizona.
It was changing colors when itwas first around, 25 years ago.
So they've done a lottechnology wise on it.
Like everything.

Mike (24:17):
can you play pickleball on it as well, or is it You

Scott (24:21):
can, and that's back to some people, whether it's true
or not, they feel like the ballbounces better on the acrylic.
And I think that's just becauseit's what they're used to.

Mike (24:31):
Yeah.

Scott (24:31):
It's hard to sell a tennis court with tile on it.

Trey (24:34):
Okay.
Depends on how competitive they are too.
'cause Yeah, if they're more competitive,they're gonna be a lot more stubborn
on what they're comfortable with.
It's yeah.

Scott (24:41):
Yeah.
I had a neighbor growing up thatwould pay us in the summer to take
care of his clay tennis court.
We would have to go water itwhile they were outta town.

Mike (24:49):
Wow.
Yeah.
I was gonna ask if you guysever installed any clay courts?

Scott (24:53):
No.
Have not.

Mike (24:54):
Okay.

Scott (24:55):
Before we got into this they were doing a, concrete curb and then
asphalt, and then the black undercoatof the acrylic would smooth out any
imperfections in the asphalt andthen the acrylic color would go down.
The problem with that is asphalt is gonnadry out over time, and so you're gonna get
some larger cracks in those quarts overtime that you're gonna have to use a patch

(25:18):
binder and then go back and resurface 'em.
But you're always gonna get cracksbecause it's always gonna dry out.
that's another back to the rebar andthe post tension on the surfaces.
You're gonna tend to have more cracks in arebar court than you are on a post tension
court and, five, 10 years down the road.
With the movements that we get,you're gonna see the cracks

(25:39):
through the acrylic surfacing.
And we do a ton of resurfacing on courts.
That's part of owning one.
You're gonna have to resurfaceit at one, one point or another.

Mike (25:48):
I was gonna ask, what common maintenance and with
what regularity does that occur?

Scott (25:53):
it's usually guys are going 8, 10, 15 years.
It depends on how much it's used.
Sometimes the resurfacing is just toget more sand in it, or to update the
sand so that you have the same grip.
It's gonna take wear andtear if it's being played on,
competitively all the time.

BBQ Intro (26:11):
We are gonna take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we like togo to barbecue bits here we're gonna
share some information of everythingthat you may want to consider in
your outdoor living space as far asfeatures, especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.

Mike (26:31):
Okay, so we got a display of all kinds of different, you
know, pretties here, right?
So, uh, what's the differencebetween all these things?

Bobby (26:39):
So back in the late seventies, early eighties, it was quarter inch
of one half inch, uh, covered glass.
It was fractured.
Then we've gone into crystal.
You can use this, you'll see these asfar as river rock fire pits, these are
more of a, a tumbled is what it is.
Then you've got bead versus differenttypes of spheres, uh, and different

(27:02):
colors that are mixed and pre-mixed.
And then one thing that I've seenon a lot of your jobs on your
Instagram is the tumbled lava rockthat comes in different sizes.
But all in all, what's thedifference between a. Bucket
of glass in a mass merch store.
Then custom it has to do how it's, it hasto be how it's manufactured and the dyes.

(27:24):
If you buy a, Hey, I found 50 poundsof glass for $10, it's probably
gonna fade within that year.
And um, these glass manufacturers,you get what you get.
So usually it's about 75, $80, uh, for 10pounds, and these are gonna be your higher
end qualities that will keep your colors.
And they won't fade maintenance, uh,you know, one part vinegar, three

(27:49):
parts water to clean it in a bucketand then reappropriated back into
the fire pit or the burner itself.
So,

Mike (27:55):
awesome.

Bobby (27:56):
So one

Mike (27:56):
thing that we found over a period of time is we can use all
these medias with natural gas.

Bobby (28:02):
That's correct.

Mike (28:02):
What we found is it's not a good idea to use all these medias with propane.

Bobby (28:07):
That's right.
So how do you get around it?
Let's say you've got a big bulktank and you've gotta use propane.
How in productive forest as whatyou're talking about, propane tends to
blacken the glass is what it does Allyou have to do, and you can use glass
with bulk propane or propane tank, yougotta make sure there's an airspace

(28:30):
under the burner and with an air mixwith, which will give a clean burner
because propane goes from liquid to gas.
If we have the air mixerunderneath the plate of the burner.
There needs to be a void for airspaceand ventilation, then you will not get
the blackening or the soot that you will.
So

Mike (28:47):
one thing also with the propane is it's heavier.
It is.
And so it wants to sit.
Yes.
And so we've cautioned peoplewith using glass, especially with
putting heavy levels of glass.
That's correct.
'cause it'll almost make a blanket.
That's correct.
Your propane sits down there and theydon't think they're lighting it right.

(29:09):
And then all of a sudden it goes, boom.
That's correct.
Uh, so, you know, I withpropane, use a lot of Avar rock.
Correct.
Um, just because I don'twant homeowners to Right.
Risk safety situations.
Right.
However, if properly doneyou could use glass as well.

Bobby (29:25):
You, you can.
I think another thing that we'velooked at is technology has gotten
a lot better with fire pits.
Um, I'm gonna use some verbiage that'snot familiar in the industry, but VIK
systems, WeatherBeater systems are lowvoltage one 10 systems that you can
flip a switch or can go in your homeautomated system and they run a low

(29:46):
voltage current to the fire pit whereit can automate it on and off with.
That's, that's, that'sgotten a lot better.
But you're right, you have tosafety first when it comes to.
What you recommend to the customer,how you ventilated and, um, what
the customer's expectations areas sort of what it looks like.
So, yeah.
Awesome.
Yep.
Thank you.
Yep.

BBQ Ends (30:05):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today,
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.

Trey (30:19):
I'm wondering if someone has their backyard already done, they
already remodeled, or whatever itmight be, they already have their
outdoor patio and decking and theylike their decking material a lot.
Does anyone, because a lot of timepeople want to maybe use a basketball
court or a tennis court or whatever itmight be for extra staging if they're
having events or something like that.
But does anyone ever use stone orthe same decking material they use

(30:42):
to cap a concrete slab for a court?
Or is the stone maybe too slippery?
Or maybe it's too I don't know.
But does that ever happen?

Scott (30:51):
We haven't done it outdoors.

Trey (30:53):
Okay.

Scott (30:54):
Because it is slippery.

Trey (30:55):
Yeah.

Scott (30:55):
If even sweat could get it to a point where you'd hit a
spot slip, but we had one housethat had a huge event center.
Basically, it was not a garage, but ithad garage doors that went straight up.
They didn't roll back like a garage door.
They went straight up into the wall.
Oh, wow.
On three sides.
And we have tile there.
They have a closet to put it in.
And whenever they're not.

(31:16):
This is a $25 million house.
So whenever they're having eventsat the house, they'll take up the
tile and the goals retract up intothe ceiling and that's an extra
space for them to hold events.
but when it's just kids there, the goalscome down, the tile goes back on the
floor and they have a basketball court.

Mike (31:32):
Okay.

Trey (31:32):
It's kinda like the church we

Mike (31:33):
had.
So do you ever switch out icerinks and basketball courts?
Like at the uh, a NA?

Scott (31:40):
No.
And for some reason it may just be thathockey's not as big here, but I haven't
done any of the they have the hockey rinks
that are not ice.
And never had anybody ask for one.
I've looked into 'em and,'cause it's something that
could definitely get asked for.
But just haven't had theopportunity to do one.

Trey (31:56):
Yeah.
Street hockey, the roller hockey.

Mike (31:59):
I saw you sent me some pictures.
You guys do sunken trampolines though.

Scott (32:04):
they might be getting more common now.
Used to you had to do the concretewall and, they got really pricey,
really expensive, and out of a lot ofpeople's budget, maybe not even their
budget, but what they wanna spend.
I did one at DeMarcus Ws housethat was a circle of concrete.
And, that's not a low, that's avery expensive project to get that

(32:25):
concrete, so what we've seen now,they've created this trampoline.
The picture I sent you, we just did,finished it on Friday, and you're digging
down one foot and coming out one footand creating a shelf, then you're angling
down to three and a half feet deep.
And the trampoline has no legs on it.
It sits on that shelf.
So once you dig it out, you're doinga little bit of base material like

(32:47):
we would for the turf around theshelf and compacting it, and then
sitting the trampoline on that shelf.
And the way that it angles down is, it'slooking at how much does the trampoline
go in when you jump on it at the edge,You're digging a pit and they're not
even requiring drainage out of it.
It's we do gravel in the bottom, aboutsix inches and trampoline sits in

(33:09):
there and much easier, much more budgetfriendly to do something like that.
And they're stable.
They last that's a game changer really.
'cause I only did probably three or fourof 'em over the years just because it was.
It was a big project.

Mike (33:22):
I used to tell people, you want me to do another pool?
In other words, I gotta come in andI gotta, dig a hole and gunite the
walls like I would a pool, you gottaput a drain in the bottom to, to get
the water out and all this stuff.
Interesting.
So is that a particular brandof trampoline that you're
working with on the shelf?

Scott (33:41):
It comes from trampolines.com.

Mike (33:43):
Okay.

Scott (33:44):
And it has LED light strip that goes around them.
They can change colors.
Like they're really pretty cool.
it's changed, it for sure made it muchmore accessible to more people, so I
would expect to get more calls for those.
It's a newer thing, but oncepeople see that it's not what it
used to be and it's affordable.
I would expect more peopleto start doing them.

Mike (34:03):
The number one injury in a home is a trampoline.
Yeah.
And that's because peoplefall off them all the time.
Yeah.
So it's really nice whenyou can put one at grade.
You grew up using one like that.

Trey (34:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's fun.
Yeah.
Just being able to walkonto it and use it.
You don't have climb up a ladder and Yeah.
But I do like the, when they havebig walls, it's, it is fun to jump
full speed, full tilt, and do awall, and they get saved by the net.
But maybe that's just me.

Scott (34:31):
I have some good memories in the eighties falling off our trampoline.

Trey (34:35):
Oh man.

Mike (34:35):
Yeah, we

Scott (34:36):
have, and I would be lying if I wasn't happy the day that the trampoline
ripped at my house with my four boys.
I was not upset.
I was like, ' cause theyare, they're four boys.
Yep.
And you're almost having to watch'em the whole time they're on it,
so they don't, throw somebody off.
But yeah, they ripped it andthey came in the house instead
of, man, the trampoline ripped.
And I'm like, oh, awesome.
Let's get rid of it.

Mike (34:55):
And you have four boys in six years, right?

Scott (34:58):
Yes.

Mike (34:58):
Yeah.
That's a boring household.

Scott (35:00):
Yeah.

Mike (35:00):
14 to eight, is that right?

Scott (35:03):
Yes.
8, 9, 13, and 14.

Mike (35:05):
Yeah.

Scott (35:06):
it's getting to the point now.
This weekend I stopped and I'mlike, okay, where are they at?
it takes a village so

Mike (35:13):
to feed them, right?

Scott (35:14):
Yeah, that too.
it's funny, if you don'treplenish stuff in the pantry,
they'll eat what's in there.
So about every two months orso, just let look around in the
pantry and just let them, they'regonna eat it once they get hungry.
Whatever's in there.
The funny thing Dr. Sanjay Gupta,he said, if you starve a kid,
they'll eat whatever you give them.
The same thing goes forwhatever's in that pantry.

(35:35):
If they're hungry, they're gonna eat it.
Yeah.
All the stuff that they've looked at andsaid, no, maybe I'm not gonna eat that.
You'll eat it now.
it's funny to watch.

Mike (35:42):
Oh, no doubt.
No doubt.
So costs, I know it's gotta be hardto give people any point of reference
on costs, but is there is startingpoint for a pickleball court?
I

Scott (35:56):
think if concrete costs around here could be, 12 to $18.
Just depending on who's doing it.
I used to think Californiaran about seven to $9 more.
Square foot than we do here.
So that's getting pretty pricey.
it's like this, a tennis court is7,200 square feet and if concrete's
$15 a square foot, you're getting wayup there just to get the slab port.

(36:20):
Same on a pickleball.
even if you're around 1500 square feet,the majority of it is the concrete.
So it's hard to price.
You can give a roundabout, Hey, it's,if you wanna say it's $15 a square
foot, 13, 16, somewhere in thatrange and then, figure out the square
footage that'll fit in your yard.
We can at least get a starting point

Mike (36:38):
right Now, one thing I think a lot of people don't think about is if you're
gonna put a cord in, it has to be fairlyflat, but it also has to drain right.

Scott (36:49):
Yeah.
And you're, what's the typical,the, one inch every 10 feet?
That's a little bit much.
We do what's considered sports slope.
It's one inch every 15 feet.
Just so you're not affectingthe ball in any way, or the play
or the field under your feet.
Water's gonna go where water's gonna go.
If you give it a direction,that's where it's going.
And it's important.

(37:10):
You have to take that into account.
You just don't want it tobe too much of a slope,

Mike (37:14):
so sometimes you have to get in and do retaining walls and things like that.
I imagine.

Scott (37:19):
Yes.
I'm sure you guys know too, the retainingwalls are almost dead money in a budget,
and, they can eat up a lot of money.
Oh yeah.
They can really make a project expensive.
Yeah.
They can really make 'em look good.
They can add to it for sure.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Adding a dollar value to it.

Mike (37:34):
Again, it's something you have to take into account, especially
on a lot of property around here.
It's not flat.
So, Yeah,

Scott (37:43):
I've done one tennis court that was sunken.
It was the guy's dream and ithad four foot walls around it and
we did gunite and that was thefirst time I've ever done that.
It seemed like the easiestretaining wall I've ever done.
'Cause they were gonna be stuccoed andpainted and they did the gunite piano,
wired it off and we're out of there.

(38:04):
and it's, probably sturdier than concreteor block as far as longevity goes.
But it was a cool project.
It was something different.

Mike (38:10):
It's a a big swimming pool.
Yeah.

Scott (38:13):
That's basically what it was.
We had drains on the edges.
But, the landscape architect suggestedit and started looking into it, and
it was like, Hey this is doable,but this is a, it's more affordable.
I don't think you'd want it if youweren't gonna stucco and paint it.
But, for that scenario it worked.
Perfect.

Trey (38:29):
I'm going back to the sports court.
so obviously in Texas it gets really hot.
You were saying mostpeople do blue and green.
Is there a reason people don't do white?
For the actual color.
So it's cooler

Scott (38:39):
dirty?

Trey (38:40):
Okay.
It's gonna get

Scott (38:41):
dirty.
Yeah, that makes

Trey (38:42):
sense.

Scott (38:43):
I've gotten away from doing bunkers on putting greens with the turf.
One, they attract cats and they get dirty.
So we started using turf and you'vegotten to the point where the white turf
looked good, then it didn't look good.
So, Doing more of a tan turfnow to match a brown sand.
Okay.
Is better.
And it's the same on the courts.
depending on the colorit's gonna get dirty.
The blue and the green don'tshow as many scuff marks really.

(39:04):
Larry's doing one today that is bluein the court themselves as orange.
And to me that leads to a little bityou can see the scuff marks a little
bit more on it than you could the green.

Trey (39:13):
Okay.

Scott (39:14):
I'm sure the white would probably, the reflection may burn your eyes too.
Yeah.
It may be too much.

Mike (39:20):
So I'm just curious.
Has anyone ever tried to doa sports court at a turf?

Scott (39:26):
I've done 'em in turf so that the kids you're still gonna get the
same bounce pretty much out of the turf.
You're gonna want to use a shorterlike, pet turf that doesn't hold a lot
of sand or doesn't really necessarilyneed infill sand in it you can do 'em
with the base material or it couldbe concrete and the turf is glued
down on the concrete and it gives,the kids a basketball court, but they

(39:47):
also have turf to use as the backyard.
So I've done a number ofthose just because of that.
They don't want, a lot ofparents don't want the kids
falling down on the concrete.
And that gives 'em a softer surface.

Trey (39:58):
So the ball still bounces the same

Scott (40:00):
Yes, as close as possible.

Trey (40:02):
Okay.
Okay.
So the turfs like a carpet almost.
'cause it's like really short.

Scott (40:06):
Yeah.
if you're using a pet turf, you'regonna get a better ball bounce.
If you're using a putting green turf,it's almost too tight that stuff
should pull down and then shear it offand it's a little bouncy itself, so
it's gonna mess with the ball bounce.
It's gonna make it feel not natural.
pet turf is, a different, it'sjust longer blades cut down
short and it bounces better.

Trey (40:23):
That's cool.
I never thought that would be impossible.
That's,

Mike (40:25):
I've seen some pictures of people doing that and I,
anyway, I was just curious.
Yeah.
I had never personally done it.

Scott (40:31):
You can cut white lines in it just like they do on a football field.
So you could cut, the key, everything.
Most people would just do the key the,the rectangle and leave it at that

Mike (40:41):
three point line.

Scott (40:42):
Yeah.
It would be really hard to get.
We use a machine to dothe lines on the courts.
If you're doing a basketball courtor sport court whether it's on
the acrylic or the tile you've gotsomething that has given you the
exact arc, but it'd be difficult todo that, cutting it into the turf.

Trey (40:58):
Oh, yeah.
That takes a little bit of craftsmanship.

Scott (41:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's

Trey (41:02):
Have you ever done a football field or a I don't, like a half court or

Scott (41:05):
I've done an infield on a baseball field.
Okay.
But there's two parts to the turf.
And I always tell people the, there'sfields are a different animal.
if you look at some of the largercompanies, you've got AstroTurf and Cinon
and, they're owned by the same people, butthey're two separate entities completely.
You've got the guys that do the fieldsWay more involved is soil stabilization

(41:25):
and how thick they are and the drainageand everything that goes into 'em.
It's completely different than whatyou're gonna do in a yard, drainage in a
yard, typically, you're not gonna have tohave drains in the turf because there's
not just not enough movement of water.
That stuff's like a coffee filter.
Once it gets wet, it's gonna seepthrough the turf in the base.
And it's gonna do likereal grass would do.
You're not gonna have a lot of sheetdraining that you would need drains

(41:49):
unless it's just a, gigantic yard.
The yard we're on right now it has aswell that heads to the side of the yard.
And what we did there was just alarger rock as the first part of
the base material in that swelland around the side of the house.
And then we came back over thatwith our regular base material.
So the water's gonna find that swelljust because of the lay of the dirt,

(42:13):
the lay of the land, basically.
Our turf may be level, but what'sunderneath is definitely, sloped to
that swell and it'll carry it outsideof the house if there is enough rain.

Mike (42:23):
Yeah.
Subsurface drainage.

Scott (42:24):
now they have a product called airfield that goes under
the turf, which sits it up aboutan inch and a quarter and, creates
a wicking effect under the turf.
So these dog areas that, used tosmell so bad you getting a better
ability for drainage and airing outand, you want the urine to dissipate.
you want it to get down to the dirt sothat it can dissipate and not smell.

(42:47):
If it gets hung up in the basematerial, then it's a problem.
But a lot of these dogfacilities, they can do concrete.
Seal the concrete, do the airfielddrain, and then the turf on top and
they're just running a water hose.
Or they'll hook up, a systemwhere they can turn it on
and it'll wash the area down.

Mike (43:03):
It's called an airfield drain?

Scott (43:05):
Yes.
Airfield drain system.

Mike (43:07):
Interesting.

Scott (43:08):
It's probably one of the bigger things with the
turf is the dogs peeing on it.
Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:12):
The urine.

Scott (43:12):
Wow.
And trying to figure out how to keep itout of the base that's the whole problem.
If it gets hung up in the basematerial, it's gonna smell.

Mike (43:19):
Gotcha.
we have a segment that we call TrueCrime, which is something that's
happened that you've seen that it wasa crime, that it happened to somebody,
and you have recommendations sothey don't fall to the same type of.

(43:40):
Situation.
Do you have any stories you can think of?

Scott (43:42):
I've got two one to stay away from and one that is a
little bit comical, to be honest.

Mike (43:47):
Okay.

Scott (43:48):
Wasn't funny.
mean, In the end it's funny, thefirst is a lot of people will call
and say, Hey, we poured a courtwhenever we poured our house slab.
And, it's not poured theway that we would pour it.
We're looking for five inches thickwith a grade beam around the edge.
Post tension, vaporbarrier for the acrylic.
And a lot of times the guys doingthat are, they're pouring the
driveway in the shape of a court.

(44:09):
And when we show up, it's hit ormiss if it was done right or done
well enough or, there was one thathad multiple dips in it where it
had sunk and it needs to be redone.
But us coming in after the fact and.
if somebody wants to use their ownconcrete people and they call us and say,
Hey, we're gonna use them, that's fine.
We'll tell 'em how we want itdone or how we need it done.

(44:31):
And nine times outta 10 it getsdone and there's not a problem.
It's more so the ones that arecalling us saying, Hey, we had it
done and it's out here waiting on you.
Can you come do it?
And you get out thereand it's just not right.
So the one major one is probablygonna have to be dug out.
it was done, I believe, throughthe builder, but it's got major
problems and major areas thatit's dipped down and sunk.

(44:53):
It just wasn't a good quality job.
Did they, so

Mike (44:56):
did they do post tension with it?

Scott (44:58):
No, it was rebar.

Mike (45:00):
Okay.

Scott (45:00):
So that one is probably the worst.
I've.
Had one that was poured that we didn'tpour and it was sloped towards the house.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
And that was

Mike (45:09):
sheet flow going the wrong way.

Scott (45:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not good.
The comical part was that iswe told 'em how to do it, it
just got sloped the wrong way.
Just miscommunication.

Mike (45:17):
In what world would you think that's a good idea to slope it towards the house?

Scott (45:22):
Yeah.
I don't know if Jody O'Donnell that usedto own LMI landscapes he was always funny.
He's like, I sit down with theselandscape architects and look at their
plan and go, where's the water going?
The water's gonna go downhilland it's all gonna end up here.
So it's funny.
Yeah.
Slope it towards the house, but themore comical one, there's a Frank
Lloyd Wright house in Dallas andit's down off Meadowbrook around

(45:44):
midway Northwest Highway and.
That house overlooks Turtle Creek andit overlooks an empty lot, basically.
And our customer bought the housenext door and the lot behind the
Frank Lloyd Wright house on theother side of Turtle Creek had to
go through flood plain management.
I walked, knocked ondoors, talked to neighbors.
They said it hadn'tflooded in 12 or 15 years.
There they had tennis courts.

(46:05):
If you cut a tree down infloodplain you have to replace
that diameter with other trees.
So we did everything by the book.
And that court had been doneprobably six months and it flooded.
It's not funny.
It's funny now, there was afoot of mud on this quarter.
Mm-hmm.
And having talked to theneighbors and stuff, we were

(46:26):
like, oh, we're probably good.
They said 12 years.
Six months later it floods.
Yeah, so

Mike (46:31):
those hundred year floods, they come every so often.
So

Scott (46:34):
That's more of the comical one.
It's just, there was a lot ofcleaning up, a lot of power washing.

Mike (46:39):
So I was gonna ask, what kind of maintenance recovery do
you have when you have a bunchof mud on top of a tennis court?

Scott (46:46):
You can use a power broom, you just don't wanna bear down.
it's gonna leave lines in the acrylic.
Just light power washing it.
With that it was getting itwet and just trying to move the
dirt, brooms soft bristle brooms.
It was a pain, but, definitelylook back and laugh at it now.
'cause it's like what are the oddsthat it happens six months later?

Mike (47:02):
That's construction sometimes.
Is there any particular maintenancethat you should look at to help?
Make the court last longer?

Scott (47:11):
They have the roller squeegees that help get the dirt off.
The one that we just did, there'sa flower bed that's overflowing.
We're gonna go back and do alittle bit of something around
it, but it's just in one corner.
But when it rains, it runsdiagonally out onto the court.
The just dirt it's just the elevationchange from the patio down to the court.
Not a big deal, he's out therewith a roller squeegee because the
roller squeegee will pick up thedirt, take up the mud, and those

(47:34):
usually, they're typically enoughto pick up whatever's on the court
and keep 'em clean and good looking.

Mike (47:39):
So you just do that as needed.

Scott (47:41):
Yes.
And this guy's doing it everytime it rains we're gonna fix it.
it's another one of those that's funny.
There's not anywhere else except thisone little corner flower bed that's
leaking a little bit of dirt on it,but a little bit of dirt runs across
the court looks, doesn't look good.
Yeah.

Trey (47:53):
Okay.
I have a list of different type ofcourts and I'm just seeing what kind
of niche courts you dealt with.
Or maybe have advice for.
'cause if someone's clicking on thisvideo, they might have something
specific that they're looking for.
I don't know.
But I'll just go throughthe list real quick.
There's bocce ball, obviously.
You have, badminton the futsal, which islike the mini soccer those little rinks.

Scott (48:16):
I've done mini soccer in people's backyards.
Bocce balls if you're Italian, I thinkyou'd wanna play on the oyster shell.
That's a big deal to them.
A lot of them are donewith turf around here.
There is a very fine granitethat you can do 'em with.
But, I think if it's truebocce ball, what somebody wants
is the crushed Oyster shell.

Trey (48:37):
Is that a type of stone oyster shell?

Scott (48:39):
No,

Trey (48:39):
No.
I think it's the true oyster shell.
It's crushed oyster shells.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
So it's like sand almost.
It's

Mike (48:46):
done to a Yeah, it's a little bit bigger than a sand granule.

Scott (48:50):
There's a quarter inch minus dark gray granite that
you can get that emulates that.
Okay.
And it's, and people have saidit's as close as possible.
The maintenance on those is raking it out.
So a lot of the commercial ones, they'lldo a putting green style turf on it and.
That way they're not having tomaintain it other than blowing it off.

Trey (49:07):
Wait, why oysters?

Mike (49:08):
Well, Because in Italy, they ate a lot of oysters.
They're good.
And they're near near theocean here in North Texas.
We don't have any shells near us.
So no, there's quite a bit ofshipping involved in getting
your oyster shell here.

Scott (49:22):
had a customer ask me to call around down around the
coast and see if it was possible.

Mike (49:26):
Oh, anything's possible if your jet book's big enough.

Scott (49:30):
Exactly.
That's, just funny that's what it's,

Trey (49:32):
are they hogging all the oysters in Houston?
What's going on?

Mike (49:36):
Well, you, You ought to get a contract with the shuck me boys
the restaurants, maybe they couldget some and you can smash 'em up.
So anyway.

Scott (49:44):
I sent you a video of one project that I worked on, and that
guy has the sand brought in fromFlorida, just so it's still white.

Trey (49:50):
Oh wow.
That's cool.

Scott (49:52):
Yeah,

Trey (49:52):
do you have any pointers for like, driveway setups?
Because a lot of people want todo sports stuff in their driveway,
whether that be ba typically it'sbasketball hop, scotch and shuffleboard.
But

Scott (50:02):
We do a lot of painted lines on driveways.
Okay.
When we put up a goal.

Mike (50:06):
Yeah.

Scott (50:06):
It's usually the easiest thing to do.
I've done turf on driveways again,just to open up an area for the kids.
And we've had people do thesport court tiles on a driveway.
You just can't turn the wheels.
If you drive straight on and straight offthe turf or straight on and straight off
the tile, you know it's gonna be fine.
you do the acrylic and you turnthe tires, it's gonna leave a mark.

(50:27):
But, turf and tilesstraight on, straight off.
It's doable.

Trey (50:31):
So if you turn the wheels on the turf, what does it do?
Does it just imprint it?

Scott (50:34):
It's gonna, it gonna twist it off?
Twist it up?
Yeah.
Almost like a bed sheetor something, yeah.
It's gonna do just that.
And if it's glued down, it's gonna rip it.

Mike (50:41):
Okay.

Scott (50:41):
With tiles it's probably just gonna pop 'em apart.
You can probably get 'em back together,depending on if it didn't break one of
the little pegs or the feet or the, yeah.
The connectors.
But yeah it's a straight in, straight out.
Not a problem.
Any of 'em that I've done is, a slidegate and they're coming straight
into the driveway, straight into thegarage, not having to turn on the turf.

(51:02):
Not a slide gate in a Dallas alleywaythey're always a little tight.
You would be turning on the turf.

Trey (51:07):
Have you done any, is the wild one boxing or MMA training
pads or yoga or Pilate decks or,

Scott (51:15):
no, we do a ton of indoor batting cage facilities.

Trey (51:18):
Okay.

Scott (51:19):
And Larry's done some things where there's these four by six rubber mats.
You'll see 'em around batting cage places.
They're in the walkways sometimes.
That's typically what we're around.
Just trying to create a a walkway ofsomething that's this comfortable.

Trey (51:33):
Yeah.
Have you ever encountered this, if youhave, this can be crazy 'cause this
was a big deal for my childhood, butGaga ball, have you ever heard of that?

Scott (51:42):
Yeah.
Okay.
I've done some at some schools and I hadno clue what it was when they called and
asked me, hey, can you do a Gaga pit?
And I'm like, what?
Like What?
I don't even know what that is.
Like, what'd you say?
It

Mike (51:54):
must be a thing with churches, because I noticed driving by the Baptist
church by our house the other day.
They got a gaga pit out there.
Yeah.

Trey (52:01):
That, That's that church camp mentality,

Scott (52:03):
That's where I did 'em.
Okay.
That's a funny, this is a funny story.
Out in East Texas I did a lot ofchurches around the Jacksonville
area and it was just word of mouth.
I would do the playgrounds.
The playgrounds have a, two inchpad in turf on 'em, and they, they
pass for fall ratings, gmax ratings.
But some of them had gagahits and they had me do 'em.

Trey (52:21):
there's some dry blood from my knuckles in the Gaga ball pit.
'cause I don't know whose idea wasit to be like, okay, the game is, you
hit the ball as hard as you can withyour knuckles on a concrete slab.
It's just whatever.
And then there's tetherball courts.
I don't even think there'seven tetherball courts.
It's just really poles.

Scott (52:38):
Their grandma used to play tether ball.
And she lived out in East Texas ina and they were like, you did what?
And then it's on Napoleon Dynamite.

Trey (52:46):
Yep.

Scott (52:46):
They're like, how boring is that?

Trey (52:48):
That's a lot of sports they can have in your backyard.

Mike (52:51):
It's people love to have stuff in their backyard.
We can simulate all kinds of activities.

Scott (52:57):
I think I just sent you the backyard that had the pickleball
the basketball goal and theinground trampoline and the turf.
And what they said was a lot oftheir neighbors at their friends
with, and have kids have pools.
So they were like, let's dosomething different here.
Not just this, typical pool.
So the kids can have something to do.
They can stay in the neighborhoodand they can go house to house and
have some different things to do.

Mike (53:19):
Build it and they will come.
Yeah.
And hopefully a lot of parentswant them to come and stay and,
make sure they know where theirkids are at and what they're doing.
And so it, it makes for great homeenvironments, great family situations.
Grandparents, I know we're buildinga lot of cool stuff too, to also also
compete with Disneyland and DisneyWorld and try to have some fun.

(53:41):
Yep.
I'm sure there's a lot ofpeople that are gonna be building
more fun stuff to come, but

Scott (53:46):
that's, I do believe when people see the ease of the in-ground
trampoline, that we'll go through aphase of a lot of those, again, it
adds a feature with the LED lights.

Mike (53:55):
Yeah.

Scott (53:55):
It's cost effective to get it done.
Why not?
If we're gonna own a trampoline,why not throw it in the ground?
Yeah.

Mike (54:00):
Makes it safer.
Yeah.
You have some questionsfor Scott in closing?
Yes.
To,

Trey (54:06):
yeah.
So at the end of the podcast, I alwaysask a couple questions just to get to
know the guests a little bit better.
So I'm just wonderingwhat your favorite movie?
Favorite book and favorite food,

Scott (54:16):
books.
I may have to go on.
Recent I read the MatthewMcConaughey book, green Lights.

Trey (54:22):
Oh, I don't, I haven't

Scott (54:22):
read that yet.
It was pretty cool.

Trey (54:24):
It's a good book.
I forgot it.
Yeah.

Scott (54:26):
I dunno if it's a favorite.
I don't know if, at the moment.
I eat a ton of Mexican food and.
Can be a little picky with it.
We lived in Cabo San Lucas for ayear and a half before we had kids,
and it gave you a little bit ofa different taste than Tex-Mex.
Oh, yeah.
And I tend to look around and tryto eat different Mexican food.
And

Trey (54:43):
do you like the Tex-Mex or do you like the authentic stuff more?

Scott (54:46):
I like 'em both, and I eat a ton of jalapenos.
Yep.
I came home the other day, my9-year-old is eating jalapenos out of
the jar like pickles that's crazy.
So I like the spice, and that was hardto get used to in Cabo was they don't
necessarily have the spice that we have.

Trey (54:59):
No.

Scott (55:00):
my guy's grandmother will make tamales and, oh, you want 'em spicy?
Yeah.
And they're not really spicy.
Not what we're used to.

Trey (55:07):
And we use a lot of cheese too, like the queso and all that kind of stuff.

Scott (55:10):
Yeah, Yeah.
Yeah.
And they typically don't.
What was the other one?

Trey (55:13):
What's your favorite movie?

Scott (55:14):
That's a tough one, man.
I tend to be a little bit more violent.
Maybe I like street Kingsof a movie that I like.
It's entertaining

Trey (55:22):
As a kid I used to watch Die Hard every night before I went to bed, so
it's I guess people could say that.
Movie's a little violent too,but I thought it was a great
Christmas movie to go to sleep too.

Scott (55:32):
Yeah.
that's funny.
I referenced Sanjay Gupta twice now inthis, but he was saying the other day,
if you watch tv, watch something calmbefore you go to sleep, he is like,
it's not the worst if you leave the TVon, it just depends on what's on it.
Yep.

Mike (55:46):
And I have one more question.
So if you're gonna go somewhere andtravel, where would that be for fun?

Scott (55:52):
Man, I like trees more than the ocean.
I think I realized that livingin, in Cabo it's funny because I
looked at Asheville, North Carolinatoday, that might be top of my list.
I've been looking aroundthat area for our next trip.
Lots of trees, lots of mountains.
It's

Mike (56:08):
pretty place.
Pretty

Scott (56:09):
place.
Yeah.
and the weather's notterrible there right now.
Or now going into the end of the year Ithink moving back from Cabo one day she
looked at me and said, I wanna go home.
There's no seasons.
We're used to seasons here, four seasons.
And down there it's the same thing.
And somebody had told methat before we went and.
They were like it's Phoenixwith water basically.

(56:29):
And when you're there for alittle while, you're like, okay,
it's the same thing every day.
It's good weather, but youmiss fall, you miss the spring.
So I tend to like now goingto places with the trees.

Mike (56:40):
I was gonna say, our fall here is two weeks we go from

Scott (56:44):
Yeah.

Mike (56:45):
95 degrees at Thanksgiving and then it'll snow on us.
Yep.
But
we like trees too.
I have a tendency to go to Colorado asmuch as I can and see some nice fur trees.
But anyway,

Scott (56:58):
There's a landscape architect here who designs baseball fields
and did his mom's backyard.
I've known him for yearsand we were just talking.
He's designed what I consider thebest places that we play baseball
here, and they all have trees.
The trees were definitely kept inthe design, like Oak Grove out at
grapevine Lake and down in Burleson.

(57:19):
There's lots of shade and it'sjust funny sitting with him and
he is like, I designed that one.
And I was like, oh, thenwe played in Burleson.
It's, he's like, I designed that one.
So it's pretty funny that, he incorporatesthe trees into 'em and it's much better,
at least with the shade for around here.
Oh yeah.

Mike (57:33):
Scott, we really appreciate you taking time today and coming on with
us and sharing lots of information.
If people have a question for youor is there a good way to reach you?

Scott (57:43):
You can call me [phone] or send me an email,
synthetic turf [e-mail].

Mike (57:51):
Okay.

Scott (57:52):
have been told that I geek out on this stuff between the turf
and the courts, I can answer anyquestions anybody wants to call.
I'm more than happy to talk to 'em.
So that's what my ex-wife always said.
She's they just buy from you 'causeyou won't stop talking about it.

Mike (58:06):
If you're passionate about it, it comes through.

Scott (58:08):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny.

Mike (58:09):
And we thanks again.
So we look forwardtalking to you again soon.

Scott (58:13):
Alright.
Appreciate the time.

Mike (58:14):
Thank you.

Trey (58:15):
Thank you.

Outro (58:16):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're gonna findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a
pool in the future or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.

(58:40):
We wanna be that resource for you, andthat's the end goal here, and we promise.
That there's gonna bea ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we wanna share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.