August 25, 2025 • 18 mins
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Affair of the Poisons. Part III: All the Venomous People.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Jesse Wiseman Crime Corner is not suitable for all audiences.
It is created by and intended for the fun and flirty listener.
Discretion is advised. Looking for a new crime show to
binge? I know you are From the crew at
drinking Bros Podcast and Tetherball Academy media comes
(00:20):
Crime Corner with Jesse Wiseman.Described as a crime show that
is more like how you talk with your friends or spouse while
watching Dateline. Crime corner covers cases
untouched by other true crime shows as well as the heavy
hitters and the occasional serial killer.
Rodger was meeting his wife, the.
Emery shot him two times. He fell back.
So when Detective Charlie Cox, you guys, guys.
(00:44):
Every. Time there's a detective in the
80s. Their names are amazing, right?
I love that it's real. 911 call from the Wingers home.
We're going to listen to that now.
Oh shit, hold. Me.
What's the problem? I just saw this man in my house.
(01:05):
It's inside your house. It'd be my wife.
Is he there right now? Does he have a gun?
Things are everywhere. You can find Prime Corner with
Jesse Wiseman wherever you listen to podcasts, and video is
now available on Spotify. OK, I still don't believe that.
Face off. Oh, God, we're not doing this.
Look, we're not. Moving on, we talked to it
(01:26):
again, talked about it before. You're not changing my mind.
Welcome back to MC Cop, a dark history podcast, a macabre
feature on the Affair of the Poisons Part 3.
All the venomous people. One night, Maribos, surrounded
(01:51):
by friends and associates, had alittle too much to drink.
She had bragged about how rich she got by selling inheritance
powders to those with high status.
Her indiscretions and immodesty had been reported to Lieutenant
General Gabriel. Nicola de la Rainie boss was
(02:16):
swiftly arrested and tortured for information in the height of
the poison ring investigations. It didn't take long for Marie to
avail a number of names in the Paris underground.
The one name that stopped La Rainie in his tracks, that
dripped off Marie Boss's tongue with hatred, was Catherine
(02:40):
Lavoisan. He knew that name.
She was in the inner circles of the aristocracy, circles that
interlinked with the king. In February of 1677, the Affair
of the Poisons officially began with the arrest of the fortune
(03:01):
teller Magdalen de La Grange. She was charged with forgery and
murder. She appealed, claiming she had
important information on other crimes related to the
investigation. The accusations of attempted
poisonings, murder, witchcraft, and other dealings in the
(03:22):
macabre French underground had the Sun King commanding the
police to round up as many alchemists, fortune tellers,
magicians, and any other diviners they could find.
La Rey NI soon realized that this went deeper than any of
them had anticipated. Many of them confess under
(03:45):
duress a select number of their clients.
Some of these clients were in the Royal Court.
Among this growing collective list of clients were alleged to
have purchased poisons to get rid of their spouses or enemies.
(04:05):
The interrogators weren't just looking for clients, they wanted
the people facilitating the darkoccupations as well to find the
culprits responsible for King Louise Fear.
When they arrested Marie Boss for her drunken banter and
claims of riches received by I'll Means, they didn't know
(04:27):
what they were getting into. It didn't take long for Boss to
point a finger at her rival Lavoisan, pinning all of the
blame for the poison network on her.
When they searched Catherine's place of residence, the police
knew this went deeper than a ring of poisoners.
(04:48):
They arrested her and just days later arrested Adam Lesage.
Massage, along with other prisoners stood by what Marie
Boss had confessed. Catherine Lavoisan was more than
a midwife and fortune teller. Orders were given not to torture
(05:09):
Lavoisan like the others. They used her addiction to
alcohol instead. They kept the drinks flowing to
get as much information out of her as possible.
At first she didn't tell them anything valuable and denied all
accusations against her, but eventually she did concede.
(05:34):
She gave up names and confessed aspects of her practice.
Lorrainy was astonished up a number of countesses, Dukes and
Duchess that all relied on Catherine to resolve their dark
wishes. The authorities needed more
information from her. She was unwilling to give
details. She had been tortured during her
(05:57):
last interrogation, at which time she stated Paris is full of
this kind of thing and there is an infinite number of people
engaged in this evil trade. When they pressured her For more
information on client specifics,she only said a great number of
(06:20):
persons of every sort of rank and condition address themselves
to her to seek the death of or find the means to kill many
people. Lavoisan never revealed her
complete list of clients. She was afraid they would
discover her plot to kill King Louis the 14th, but that never
(06:42):
surfaced during her questioning.While she did admit to some of
the practices she dabbled in that were punishable by law, it
wasn't enough to give her the death penalty.
That is, until they found out about her abortions.
Abortions were highly illegal inFrance.
(07:02):
If one was found guilty of abortion, both the abortionist
and the mother of the aborted fetus would be put to death.
Catherine's accusers leaned heavily on this and all of the
accounts of clients requesting the service from her and how
there was evidence on her premises.
Love Was On knew this was her end.
(07:25):
She was tried and convicted of witchcraft.
On February 17th, 1680. She was sentenced to death by
burning at the stake. Just five days later, she was
taken to La Place de Greve, where she would be burned alive.
On her way to the platform, she pushed a priest away.
(07:48):
She attempted to push the hay piled around her away multiple
times before finally succumbing to the flames.
But her secrets did not perish with her on the pyre.
It was clear to officials that they were dealing with more than
(08:11):
just a group of conspiring revolutionists.
This was an interwoven underworld that seemed more
extensive than the catacombs. The special court known as
Chhabra Arndant, which translates to burning court or
burning chamber. This was a court of carefully
(08:32):
appointed magistrates designed to judge cases of witchcraft and
poisonings. Its proceedings were hidden from
the public eye. They held court in the basement
of the arsenal and even blocked out the windows with black
curtains. The only light within the
chamber were lit torches, thus giving the name Chambre Ardent.
(08:57):
In this unique court, defendantsthat were found guilty of a
capital offence could be subjectto torture before their
execution. This would be an order from the
judge as a last attempt to obtain information in any way.
In cases of serious suspicion ofan individual, Royal law would
(09:17):
be sentenced, which means an individual could be tortured
before receiving a guilty verdict, but a prisoner legally
in this situation could only be tortured once unless further
information was given. These sessions could not exceed
85 minutes. The means of torture varied in
(09:39):
severity. The most common methods were
boot torture and water torture. The boot torture consisted of
the prisoner's legs and feet in a wooden mold where the wedges
were driven into the sides. This would cause the mold to
tighten, leading to the agony ofcrushed bones.
In the case of water torture, the prisoner would be stretched
(10:02):
naked over a short stool that was placed under the small of
their back. Their hands and feet would be
tied and pulled in opposite directions.
They would be forced to swallow 3 pints of water, in more severe
cases, an additional 4 jugs of water.
This would cause the stomach to almost burst and nearly drown.
(10:23):
The subject, Catherine Lavoisan was subject to the boot torture
before her death. People of every social level
were arrested and tried in this court.
The king demanded that they takeevery precaution necessary and
to go as deeply into the public as needed to get to the
(10:47):
epicenter of the black market. This means of torture proved to
be ineffective by the end of theduration of the trials because
only a small percentage confessed valuable information
under duress. Despite this, King Louis ordered
every measure taken, every connection questioned, which led
(11:09):
to the arrest of Lavoisan's daughter Marie Marguerite
Mavoisan and her two brothers onJanuary 26th, 1680.
There was no buffer of protection for them now that
their father had passed away theyear prior from natural causes.
Several weeks later, their mother was put to death after
(11:30):
her trial in the Chambre Ardant.In July and August of the same
year, Marguerite, feeling no hope after her mother's
execution, made a confession. She revealed the sought after
complete list of clients with a name that shocked everyone in
its absurdity, Madame de Montespa.
(11:54):
She explained the request for poison, to murder the king and
his mistress in a jealous rage, and that she'd participated in
black masses. She also gave details on her
mother's practices and the reality of her services.
Her mother, Catherine Mauvoisin,used real infants in these black
(12:16):
masses and that for Multi Spa's requests alone, they needed
three to four her sacrifice. No one would confess if these
infants were alive or deceased before these Masses, but it was
confirmed that she used aborted infants for some of them.
She had confessed A detailed incident which was documented in
(12:39):
La Rayne's notebook, which stated an altar had been set up
in my mother's bedroom, the cross in place, the candles lit.
A lady was stretched out stark naked on a mattress.
Her legs dangled off one side ofit, her head hanging down on the
other, propped up on a pillow which had been placed on an
(13:03):
upended chair. A linen cloth was folded on her
stomach, the chalice reposed on her groin.
Madame de Montespa arrived at 10in the evening and did not leave
until midnight. At another one of Madame
Montespa's masses I saw my mother bring in an infant,
(13:23):
obviously premature, and place it in a basin over which the
priest slit its throat, drainingthe blood into the chalice,
where he consecrated the blood and the wafer, speaking the
names of Madame Montespa and theking.
At the moment of the offertory, the body of the infant was
(13:44):
incinerated in the garden oven and the entrails taken the day
next by my mother for distillation, along with the
blood and the consecrated host, all of which was then poured
into a glass vial which Madame de Montespa came by later to
pick up and take away. The remains will be buried in
(14:08):
her garden and sometimes in cemeteries with the help of a
priest. At the same time, Catherine's ex
lover Adam Lesage confessed in detail about the practices of
Lavoisan which matched Marguerite's testimony.
Child sacrifices had taken place.
A priest that was arrested that worked under Lavoisan confirmed
(14:32):
this as well. Over 1500 children were murdered
by Lavoisan, but many believe the actual number to be over
2000. Marguerite's confession was
considered vital in the trials and she was never charged
personally for any of these crimes.
Only a witness. Once multiple witnesses
(14:54):
confessed evidence that lined upwith other counts, it became
horrifically clear that there was a significant number of
aristocrats with a high level ofpower that were part of this
dark underground movement. But once the details came out
about the King's former lover and her pleading for poison to
(15:15):
kill him and his new found interest in another woman, he
called off the trials abruptly. He couldn't bear the truth.
King Louis the 14th never held Madame de Montespa in favor ever
again. Madame de Montena replaced her
(15:36):
as the official royal mistress. Montespa retired from court and
spent the remaining years of herlife in a convent, where she
devoted her life to charity workuntil her death in 17 O 7.
Louis the 14th died on the 1st of September in 1715 of
gangrene, shortly after the War of Spanish Succession.
(16:00):
His eldest son and grandson preceded him in death, leaving
his great grandson to succeed him on the throne.
The Affair of the Poisons was one of the most sensational
cases of the 17th century. The trials that were held for
the accused, known as the ShabraArdant, held 210 sessions at the
(16:22):
arsenal in Paris, France. There were 442 suspects, 319
rights of arrest were issued. 36people were sentenced to death,
23 exiled. Some of those who were accused
ended their lives while imprisoned.
(16:45):
Many of the accused were never brought to trial, but were
imprisoned for life instead by the king with an issued warrant
of arrest that had no right of appeal, called letter de cachet.
Those involved in this case never regained their reputation
and lost the statuses they held.This incident exposed A
(17:06):
prominent black market, a dark underbelly of France that was
riddled with the aristocracy. It was refinement turned into
raw degradation of vices, affirmation of defects with the
monarchy, inadequacies clothed in extravagant costumes.
The scrutiny of the bourgeoisie increased after the trials, and
(17:31):
it would only prove to rattle French society further, causing
a string of events that would evolve into intense upheaval in
the years to come, with the French Revolution just starting
a century later. Thank you for listening to this
special presentation and limitedseries on Macabre, a dark
(17:54):
history podcast. Stay tuned for Macabre features
in the future. We're together.
We will uncover the darkest parts of history.
Jesse Wiseman Crime Corner is not suitable for all audiences.
It is created by and intended for the fun and flirty listener.
Discretion is advised. Looking for a new crime show to
binge? I know you are From the crew at
drinking Bros Podcast and Tetherball Academy media comes
(00:20):
Crime Corner with Jesse Wiseman.Described as a crime show that
is more like how you talk with your friends or spouse while
watching Dateline. Crime corner covers cases
untouched by other true crime shows as well as the heavy
hitters and the occasional serial killer.
Rodger was meeting his wife, the.
Emery shot him two times. He fell back.
So when Detective Charlie Cox, you guys, guys.
(00:44):
Every. Time there's a detective in the
80s. Their names are amazing, right?
I love that it's real. 911 call from the Wingers home.
We're going to listen to that now.
Oh shit, hold. Me.
What's the problem? I just saw this man in my house.
(01:05):
It's inside your house. It'd be my wife.
Is he there right now? Does he have a gun?
Things are everywhere. You can find Prime Corner with
Jesse Wiseman wherever you listen to podcasts, and video is
now available on Spotify. OK, I still don't believe that.
Face off. Oh, God, we're not doing this.
Look, we're not. Moving on, we talked to it
(01:26):
again, talked about it before. You're not changing my mind.
Welcome back to MC Cop, a dark history podcast, a macabre
feature on the Affair of the Poisons Part 3.
All the venomous people. One night, Maribos, surrounded
(01:51):
by friends and associates, had alittle too much to drink.
She had bragged about how rich she got by selling inheritance
powders to those with high status.
Her indiscretions and immodesty had been reported to Lieutenant
General Gabriel. Nicola de la Rainie boss was
(02:16):
swiftly arrested and tortured for information in the height of
the poison ring investigations. It didn't take long for Marie to
avail a number of names in the Paris underground.
The one name that stopped La Rainie in his tracks, that
dripped off Marie Boss's tongue with hatred, was Catherine
(02:40):
Lavoisan. He knew that name.
She was in the inner circles of the aristocracy, circles that
interlinked with the king. In February of 1677, the Affair
of the Poisons officially began with the arrest of the fortune
(03:01):
teller Magdalen de La Grange. She was charged with forgery and
murder. She appealed, claiming she had
important information on other crimes related to the
investigation. The accusations of attempted
poisonings, murder, witchcraft, and other dealings in the
(03:22):
macabre French underground had the Sun King commanding the
police to round up as many alchemists, fortune tellers,
magicians, and any other diviners they could find.
La Rey NI soon realized that this went deeper than any of
them had anticipated. Many of them confess under
(03:45):
duress a select number of their clients.
Some of these clients were in the Royal Court.
Among this growing collective list of clients were alleged to
have purchased poisons to get rid of their spouses or enemies.
(04:05):
The interrogators weren't just looking for clients, they wanted
the people facilitating the darkoccupations as well to find the
culprits responsible for King Louise Fear.
When they arrested Marie Boss for her drunken banter and
claims of riches received by I'll Means, they didn't know
(04:27):
what they were getting into. It didn't take long for Boss to
point a finger at her rival Lavoisan, pinning all of the
blame for the poison network on her.
When they searched Catherine's place of residence, the police
knew this went deeper than a ring of poisoners.
(04:48):
They arrested her and just days later arrested Adam Lesage.
Massage, along with other prisoners stood by what Marie
Boss had confessed. Catherine Lavoisan was more than
a midwife and fortune teller. Orders were given not to torture
(05:09):
Lavoisan like the others. They used her addiction to
alcohol instead. They kept the drinks flowing to
get as much information out of her as possible.
At first she didn't tell them anything valuable and denied all
accusations against her, but eventually she did concede.
(05:34):
She gave up names and confessed aspects of her practice.
Lorrainy was astonished up a number of countesses, Dukes and
Duchess that all relied on Catherine to resolve their dark
wishes. The authorities needed more
information from her. She was unwilling to give
details. She had been tortured during her
(05:57):
last interrogation, at which time she stated Paris is full of
this kind of thing and there is an infinite number of people
engaged in this evil trade. When they pressured her For more
information on client specifics,she only said a great number of
(06:20):
persons of every sort of rank and condition address themselves
to her to seek the death of or find the means to kill many
people. Lavoisan never revealed her
complete list of clients. She was afraid they would
discover her plot to kill King Louis the 14th, but that never
(06:42):
surfaced during her questioning.While she did admit to some of
the practices she dabbled in that were punishable by law, it
wasn't enough to give her the death penalty.
That is, until they found out about her abortions.
Abortions were highly illegal inFrance.
(07:02):
If one was found guilty of abortion, both the abortionist
and the mother of the aborted fetus would be put to death.
Catherine's accusers leaned heavily on this and all of the
accounts of clients requesting the service from her and how
there was evidence on her premises.
Love Was On knew this was her end.
(07:25):
She was tried and convicted of witchcraft.
On February 17th, 1680. She was sentenced to death by
burning at the stake. Just five days later, she was
taken to La Place de Greve, where she would be burned alive.
On her way to the platform, she pushed a priest away.
(07:48):
She attempted to push the hay piled around her away multiple
times before finally succumbing to the flames.
But her secrets did not perish with her on the pyre.
It was clear to officials that they were dealing with more than
(08:11):
just a group of conspiring revolutionists.
This was an interwoven underworld that seemed more
extensive than the catacombs. The special court known as
Chhabra Arndant, which translates to burning court or
burning chamber. This was a court of carefully
(08:32):
appointed magistrates designed to judge cases of witchcraft and
poisonings. Its proceedings were hidden from
the public eye. They held court in the basement
of the arsenal and even blocked out the windows with black
curtains. The only light within the
chamber were lit torches, thus giving the name Chambre Ardent.
(08:57):
In this unique court, defendantsthat were found guilty of a
capital offence could be subjectto torture before their
execution. This would be an order from the
judge as a last attempt to obtain information in any way.
In cases of serious suspicion ofan individual, Royal law would
(09:17):
be sentenced, which means an individual could be tortured
before receiving a guilty verdict, but a prisoner legally
in this situation could only be tortured once unless further
information was given. These sessions could not exceed
85 minutes. The means of torture varied in
(09:39):
severity. The most common methods were
boot torture and water torture. The boot torture consisted of
the prisoner's legs and feet in a wooden mold where the wedges
were driven into the sides. This would cause the mold to
tighten, leading to the agony ofcrushed bones.
In the case of water torture, the prisoner would be stretched
(10:02):
naked over a short stool that was placed under the small of
their back. Their hands and feet would be
tied and pulled in opposite directions.
They would be forced to swallow 3 pints of water, in more severe
cases, an additional 4 jugs of water.
This would cause the stomach to almost burst and nearly drown.
(10:23):
The subject, Catherine Lavoisan was subject to the boot torture
before her death. People of every social level
were arrested and tried in this court.
The king demanded that they takeevery precaution necessary and
to go as deeply into the public as needed to get to the
(10:47):
epicenter of the black market. This means of torture proved to
be ineffective by the end of theduration of the trials because
only a small percentage confessed valuable information
under duress. Despite this, King Louis ordered
every measure taken, every connection questioned, which led
(11:09):
to the arrest of Lavoisan's daughter Marie Marguerite
Mavoisan and her two brothers onJanuary 26th, 1680.
There was no buffer of protection for them now that
their father had passed away theyear prior from natural causes.
Several weeks later, their mother was put to death after
(11:30):
her trial in the Chambre Ardant.In July and August of the same
year, Marguerite, feeling no hope after her mother's
execution, made a confession. She revealed the sought after
complete list of clients with a name that shocked everyone in
its absurdity, Madame de Montespa.
(11:54):
She explained the request for poison, to murder the king and
his mistress in a jealous rage, and that she'd participated in
black masses. She also gave details on her
mother's practices and the reality of her services.
Her mother, Catherine Mauvoisin,used real infants in these black
(12:16):
masses and that for Multi Spa's requests alone, they needed
three to four her sacrifice. No one would confess if these
infants were alive or deceased before these Masses, but it was
confirmed that she used aborted infants for some of them.
She had confessed A detailed incident which was documented in
(12:39):
La Rayne's notebook, which stated an altar had been set up
in my mother's bedroom, the cross in place, the candles lit.
A lady was stretched out stark naked on a mattress.
Her legs dangled off one side ofit, her head hanging down on the
other, propped up on a pillow which had been placed on an
(13:03):
upended chair. A linen cloth was folded on her
stomach, the chalice reposed on her groin.
Madame de Montespa arrived at 10in the evening and did not leave
until midnight. At another one of Madame
Montespa's masses I saw my mother bring in an infant,
(13:23):
obviously premature, and place it in a basin over which the
priest slit its throat, drainingthe blood into the chalice,
where he consecrated the blood and the wafer, speaking the
names of Madame Montespa and theking.
At the moment of the offertory, the body of the infant was
(13:44):
incinerated in the garden oven and the entrails taken the day
next by my mother for distillation, along with the
blood and the consecrated host, all of which was then poured
into a glass vial which Madame de Montespa came by later to
pick up and take away. The remains will be buried in
(14:08):
her garden and sometimes in cemeteries with the help of a
priest. At the same time, Catherine's ex
lover Adam Lesage confessed in detail about the practices of
Lavoisan which matched Marguerite's testimony.
Child sacrifices had taken place.
A priest that was arrested that worked under Lavoisan confirmed
(14:32):
this as well. Over 1500 children were murdered
by Lavoisan, but many believe the actual number to be over
2000. Marguerite's confession was
considered vital in the trials and she was never charged
personally for any of these crimes.
Only a witness. Once multiple witnesses
(14:54):
confessed evidence that lined upwith other counts, it became
horrifically clear that there was a significant number of
aristocrats with a high level ofpower that were part of this
dark underground movement. But once the details came out
about the King's former lover and her pleading for poison to
(15:15):
kill him and his new found interest in another woman, he
called off the trials abruptly. He couldn't bear the truth.
King Louis the 14th never held Madame de Montespa in favor ever
again. Madame de Montena replaced her
(15:36):
as the official royal mistress. Montespa retired from court and
spent the remaining years of herlife in a convent, where she
devoted her life to charity workuntil her death in 17 O 7.
Louis the 14th died on the 1st of September in 1715 of
gangrene, shortly after the War of Spanish Succession.
(16:00):
His eldest son and grandson preceded him in death, leaving
his great grandson to succeed him on the throne.
The Affair of the Poisons was one of the most sensational
cases of the 17th century. The trials that were held for
the accused, known as the ShabraArdant, held 210 sessions at the
(16:22):
arsenal in Paris, France. There were 442 suspects, 319
rights of arrest were issued. 36people were sentenced to death,
23 exiled. Some of those who were accused
ended their lives while imprisoned.
(16:45):
Many of the accused were never brought to trial, but were
imprisoned for life instead by the king with an issued warrant
of arrest that had no right of appeal, called letter de cachet.
Those involved in this case never regained their reputation
and lost the statuses they held.This incident exposed A
(17:06):
prominent black market, a dark underbelly of France that was
riddled with the aristocracy. It was refinement turned into
raw degradation of vices, affirmation of defects with the
monarchy, inadequacies clothed in extravagant costumes.
The scrutiny of the bourgeoisie increased after the trials, and
(17:31):
it would only prove to rattle French society further, causing
a string of events that would evolve into intense upheaval in
the years to come, with the French Revolution just starting
a century later. Thank you for listening to this
special presentation and limitedseries on Macabre, a dark
(17:54):
history podcast. Stay tuned for Macabre features
in the future. We're together.
We will uncover the darkest parts of history.
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