February 29, 2024 • 21 mins
In an eye-opening and insightful episode of "Conversations of Change," we host an intriguing conversation with Keith, a leading force from B Lab Singapore. As his responsibilities lie within business development and partnerships, Keith provides a high-level perspective on how the B Corps revolution is creating a global ripple effect. He showcases Singapore-based standout B Corps like Salad Stop and BP The Silver, who exemplify the transformative potential of integrating social and environmental responsibility into their business ethos.
Keith unwraps the benefits of becoming a B Corp, which includes increased employee engagement, attracting value-aligned capital, and better branding. He explores why an increasing number of companies are striving towards this certification, despite the challenges, demonstrating how the mission is embedding purpose into business to drive positive societal change.
Our conversation further pivots to individual roles to sustain and propel the B Corps movement. Spanning a gamut of micro-actions from volunteering to creating awareness, we dive into how individuals can also be catalysts for change alongside enterprises. Additionally, Keith enlightens us on specific actions companies can take to step into the realm of B Corps, including inclusive hiring, customer education, and income disparity checks.
Enhancing the dialogue, we discuss the importance of adopting sustainable and equitable practices that benefit not just the employees, but the broader community as well. We conclude with ways organizations and individuals can join the B Corp wave and create lasting change in their respective spheres. This episode is a powerful narrative of change-making initiatives, profiled through the B Corps lens.
To tap into more conversations around the transformative B Corps movement, tune in to this enlightening episode and visit our websites at makethechange.sg and bcopsingapore.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:07):
Welcome to Conversation of Change, the podcast that features social entrepreneurs
that create inspiring and positively impactful work.
My name is Nabilah and I am a changemaker with Make the Change,
a social enterprise in Singapore offering learning programs to tertiary students
and persons with disabilities,
(00:29):
offering creative services to businesses, as well as educating corporates about
creating lasting impact,
and attaining their targeted CSR goals.
So for today's episode, we are celebrating B Corp Month, and then it will be
a B Corp special episode.
(00:49):
On that note, we will be speaking to Keith, a very special guest with us.
He is a team member of the B Lab Singapore, a non-profit organization.
Welcome, Keith! Thank you, Nabilah. Before we start, I would like to introduce
you a little bit. Can you share with us more about who you are?
(01:10):
Sure. So right now, I've just joined B-Lab Singapore about a month ago,
and I lead the business development and partnerships team.
Prior to joining B-Lab, I was in the technology outsourcing industry.
I was an entrepreneur and founder there for about 15 years. And I really joined
(01:31):
B-Lab because I believe that business is the best platform for social change.
And in my previous firm, I saw firsthand how job creation was really the key,
best way to uplift people, families, and ultimately communities.
And so when this opportunity to join B-Lab came up,
(01:55):
I jumped at the opportunity because I thought, hey, this was a great chance
for me to get involved with a global movement and one that really is going out
there and making transformation happen within companies.
And companies impact so many people, their customers, their stakeholders, and society at large.
I see that you are leading the business development and partnerships of B-Lab, is that right?
(02:20):
That's right. Then what does your role entail from a day-to-day basis?
Well, in essence, my role is to go out there and get people to sign up to become
B Corps or to use our B Impact Assessment Framework to assess their company's
impact on that community,
(02:42):
on their customers, on their employees, on their governance frameworks.
Works and so yeah in essence I'm the sales person for B Corp which you know.
I see. Okay. Maybe a little bit for the listeners out there who might not have
a good idea of what the B Corp is about.
Maybe you'd like to share what is the B Corp movement, and maybe you can share
(03:04):
some examples of the existing organizations that we have in Singapore, the local scene.
Absolutely. So the B Corp movement, the B, is actually short for benefit,
and it really represents a transformative approach to business.
And it seeks to get businesses to balance profit with purpose, profit with impact,
(03:25):
and profit with taking into consideration the wider stakeholder network that
a business ultimately comes into contact with.
And B Corps are companies that have committed to meeting high standards of social
and environmental performance, transparency, and accountability.
And they do this by going through
(03:47):
the bee impact assessment and assessing themselves
on five key areas once they do this and they achieve a particular score they
can then get independently verified and once they get independently verified
they become a what we call a certified bee corp some of the best known bee corps
(04:07):
in the world include the guardian newspaper Vapor,
Danone, Palms, Body Shop, Ben & Jerry's, L'Occitane.
So these are some of the most famous brands in the world that are B-cops.
In Singapore, some of our most well-known consumer brands, Salad Stop,
for example, which became a B-cop last year,
(04:29):
Another company in Singapore is called BP The Silver, which is the region's
oldest family business.
They're a B Corp as well. They're a very famous jeweler.
They also own tea plantations as well.
And might I also add that Make The Change is perhaps also a B Corp. Yes. Indeed.
(04:51):
I do find it very meaningful to see that several companies in Singapore are
doing their part into making the world a better place, getting B Corp certified and all.
But speaking of that, what are the benefits of a company being on board,
being B Corp certified? Right.
So being a B Corp is a lot more than just getting a certification,
(05:14):
but it really represents a continuous commitment to improvement.
Certified B Corps are required to recertify every three years,
so they have to go through the assessment again every three years.
And what we've seen across many companies is that they've improved their score
as time went on. For example, Patagonia has improved their score by more than
(05:37):
50% over the years that they've been a B Corp.
And what this means is they're really creating more impact.
They're being more employee-focused. They're being more customer-focused.
They're being more stakeholder-focused throughout the years.
And this does not mean that their business is suffering. It means that you can
do well by doing good, and it can come together.
(06:02):
And so that's kind of like the basic tenet of why people become B Corps,
because they want to create a business that has a positive social impact.
And what we offer is a framework for them to track, to create a baseline,
to benchmark and to track how they're doing that across a period of time.
(06:22):
Because a lot of people can say, yeah, I'm creating a business and my business
does well in the world, but how do you know for sure that you're doing well?
Well, we offer a framework that has been evolved and modified over the many
years to ensure that it's up to date and that it's relevant to companies.
So that's, I think, the main thing about being a B Corp is that it's this core
(06:44):
commitment and companies who want to do it, do it, right?
And they do it well. The other more, I would say, obvious reasons,
for example, about being a sustainable company, about being a company that takes
care of its customers, employees,
and community, is that it generally comes back to the companies in profits. Yes.
(07:07):
Many companies have better employee engagement, much better than peers who aren't
focused on these issues, focused on making sure that they're a good company.
Because good companies are more
resilient, and they tend to have better engagement with their employees.
And when your employees are more engaged, well, they perform better.
(07:28):
They're more creative. They're more innovative.
They're more happy. They're just happier people. And then happier employees
generally makes happier customers.
And so we see that in a lot of our B Corps who actually grow throughout the
years. And we're talking about revenues while being a B Corps.
So I would say employee engagement, attracting another big benefit is attracting
(07:51):
values aligned capital, as we call it, from impact investors or investors who
say, I want to invest in a company that does well in this world, does good things.
No one wants to invest in a tobacco company today, right?
And this is just the opposite on that spectrum.
Well, it's not just neutral, but we're actually doing positive things in this world.
(08:14):
And many investors out there, they want to invest in companies like that because why not?
Why not invest, put your money in something that actually generates positivity,
change, positive change in this world?
And I'll say the last thing, in essence, is the branding.
(08:36):
Consumers today, we know in the marketplace, they want branding.
To be a good consumer. They want to consume things that make them feel that
they're putting their dollars towards something that is good.
And what the B Corp logo is, when you have a certified B Corp logo on your product,
(08:58):
your service, it tells consumers, it tells your business customers that you're a good company.
And I think that translates into better sales. We see a lot of great brands
across the world, consumer brands that have become B Corps because they want
to do well, but there is a business purpose to that as well.
(09:18):
Because they want their customers to know that they're a good company,
that their products are well-designed, their products are well-made,
their products don't create unnecessary waste in this world.
Then their products perhaps are something that are in line with the ethical
and moral and aspirational values of the consumers themselves.
(09:41):
I think you gave a very good brief on how organizations could actually get on
board into becoming a B Corp.
But it leaves me the question of, would there be potential challenges when it
comes to getting certified? Because I do understand that there will be changes along the way.
Example, like the relevant topics and the standards as well.
(10:03):
So then what would be the challenges for these organizations?
Sure. Let me kind of start off by saying that, look, not every company today
can and should be a B Corp.
We would love every company in the world to be a B Corp. I think that's basically
part of our mission and our vision, to see every company be a platform for social
(10:25):
change, be a platform for doing good.
But not every company can really be a B Corp. And if you take it to a normal
for-profit company and they come and apply and they go through the B impact
assessment, they'll typically probably get somewhere between 50 to 60 points.
To become a B Corp, you need to have 80 points. you
(10:46):
know so it's it's not a low bar by
any chance it's a high bar and going
through an assessment many companies
will find that it's difficult to really meet the 80 points to really first become
a b-corp but many b-corps have scores that are 100 and 100 points 120 points
130 points and so you know there's this there is still a huge gap between what is a traditional.
(11:14):
Generic for-profit company and what a b-club is and one of that is that does
your product your service create impact in this world and most for-profit companies
don't create impact in this world.
Most for-profit companies, maybe they do no harm, but they're not in the positive realm either.
(11:39):
And I think that's why it's difficult. It's challenging.
But many companies, if you think about companies like Danone,
Sanofi, Unilever, Nespresso, probably one of our most famous B Corps,
how did they become a B Corps?
Well, because they had to implement a lot of changes in their business model
to create positivity within their business model before they could become a B Corp.
(12:04):
And I think that's the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is creating
change within a business that has existed for some time.
If your business has existed for 25 years and you want to change that business,
to say now I'm going to intertwine my business model with impact business models,
how can I create create positive change in the environment or the community
(12:27):
or change my HR policy so that I'm treating my workers in a totally different
way than I've been doing. Well, that's a lot of change, right?
And you've got internal stakeholders who may not be happy about it. You have pushback.
And so I think that's, I would say, the biggest summarized challenge for B Corps or for companies Okay.
(12:50):
All right. So I do understand that to be a certified B Corp,
it is a global movement for an inclusive and, you know, equitable economy.
So then how do individuals like us get involved in this besides being in an organization?
Absolutely. Well, I would say that there are many ways to get involved with the B Corp movement.
(13:11):
As you're right, the B Corp movement is primarily targeted at companies,
and we try and target people within the companies to get trained,
to get educated, to become aware about the B Impact Assessment Framework and the B Corp in general.
But any single person can come to us, volunteer with the B Corp movement in
(13:32):
Singapore and anywhere in the world, because really what we need are champions.
We need people who see that business is a force for good, can be a force for
good, should be a force for good.
And how can they be part of that? that we need everything from people who help
us at events, who help us to do design, help us do social media,
(13:53):
help us do a podcast maybe, right?
And how can someone help us to go out and talk to more companies,
tell friends and family about the B Corp movement?
And that's really what we need. We need evangelists who can help us spread the
word about B Corp, especially because in Asia, it is very nascent,
the B Corp movement. where B-Lab was only set up in 2002.
(14:17):
So we're really only into our third year of operation right now,
formally setting up B-Lab in Singapore to promote the B Corp movement here.
So we need all the help that we can get.
I see. Thank you for that. Before we wrap up this episode, I do have one last question for you.
As a company, what are some specific impact efforts in becoming a B Corp?
(14:42):
Certainly. I'll just talk maybe about two or three separate examples that companies
could do to create impact in the world.
And it doesn't have to be specific to the B Corp movement.
It could be, you know, if you're a company out there or you're an entrepreneur
out there and you say, hey, you know, how can I create a business and I want
(15:03):
to create a business, a for-profit business, but how can I also then create impact in the world?
Well, the first thing, let me just talk about hiring, right?
Make the change, works with people with disabilities. And I think that in many companies today,
you can say, look, there are some roles within any company where I could be
(15:26):
a little bit more diverse in my hiring.
I could hire people with disabilities and they could work from home and that
would have totally zero impact on my operations.
Or maybe even if they had some impact on your operations, then you had to change
your operations to accommodate the diversity in your hiring,
then you should do that because that is impact in itself, right?
(15:48):
Giving a job to someone who might not necessarily have gotten the job without
you saying, yes, let me hire someone with disability, right?
And I think so that's an example where companies could do that and be more diverse
in their hiring and be more deliberately diverse in their hiring and say,
how can I use this job to change someone's life? and then perhaps that person's family's life.
(16:12):
That's one way to think about it.
Another way to think about what a company could do would be in relevance to their customers.
So for example, you could, through your service or your product,
encourage customers to consume something that is better for the environment,
(16:34):
it might be better for communities, It might be better for your workers.
It could be better for anything.
But how can you, as a company, promote and encourage consumers to consume something that's better?
And that's an impact in itself because you are basically using your platform
as a business to get consumers to consume something a little bit better.
(16:59):
And that's also another thing that someone can do.
And that would be considered by the B Corp movement or the B-Impact Assessment
Framework as an impact business model, you know.
And if you, for example, if that formulated 20%, 30% of your revenues.
Then that's still a great impact, you know what I mean?
So you're still getting some change in this world by saying,
(17:21):
oh, you know what, why don't, you know, there are two options here.
We offer option one, which is maybe the less positive option.
Now we've got more environmentally positive option.
And then maybe the one that's more environmentally positive,
that's 10% more, 15% more. Are you willing to do that?
And maybe we tell you why it's better to do that.
(17:42):
And customers, sometimes, some portion of customers will say, yeah, you know what?
I would pay more to get the better, the one that's better for the world,
better for the environment.
And so that's how companies can create change. And I'll talk about the last
one, the last thing, for example, how can companies create impact?
(18:02):
Look at any company has a set of people, right?
And this is one of the things that we look at within the B impact assessment.
What is the variance between the highest paid person in the organization and
the lowest paid person in an organization?
And we ask ourselves, is that variance fair? If that's a huge variance,
(18:25):
then maybe there's something wrong with the organization.
Why is the lowest paid person paid so much less than the highest paid person?
What's wrong with the organization?
So that's one thing for companies to think about.
And then maybe companies can ask themselves, how could you create a program
such that the lowest paid person has the opportunity to move up and earn more?
(18:50):
Or are we providing them the right tools, the right capability,
building blocks, training, education?
What can you do to change someone's life that's within your organization itself?
And if you're changing the lives of the people within your organization,
then you're making an impact every single day that these people come to work for you.
(19:13):
It is really heartwarming to see a lot of businesses in Singapore doing this
as a force for good. and I guess the main purpose is not just making money as
like what you mentioned, but more importantly, to serve the community in a sustainable way.
And that comes back to the business, you know, that be creating a sustainable,
resilient company is going to be better for business in the long run.
(19:36):
I do agree, especially when we are talking about a long-term impact,
how the community benefits and how the employees, for example,
in our organization are happy at the end of the day. And I do have a sentence
that you mentioned earlier.
Previously, I feel that it really resonates with myself when you said,
(19:57):
how can I create impact in the world?
Not only just an organization perspective, but individually, how can I contribute?
And I do really like that you emphasize on that.
Absolutely. Every single person has a lot of ways that they can impact the world positively.
Even if you're not in the impact space, even if you're not working in a charity or a social enterprise,
(20:20):
there are so many ways and I think we should get
everyone to come forward be involved the
only way to make change is to get involved it is
definitely not easy being be caught but it is inspiring to
see change of people as change makers so with that I would like to thank you
for being a part of this episode for your time and sharing today and of course
(20:45):
to all of our listeners out there for joining us and tuning in into the topic of B Corp.
So for more information on how you can get involved and be a part of this movement,
please visit our website at makethechange.sg.
And to know more about B Corp, please visit bcopsingapore.org.
Don't forget to tune to our next episode of our Conversation of Change,
(21:09):
where we will be bringing you inspiring stories and insightful conversations.
Music.
Music.
(00:07):
Welcome to Conversation of Change, the podcast that features social entrepreneurs
that create inspiring and positively impactful work.
My name is Nabilah and I am a changemaker with Make the Change,
a social enterprise in Singapore offering learning programs to tertiary students
and persons with disabilities,
(00:29):
offering creative services to businesses, as well as educating corporates about
creating lasting impact,
and attaining their targeted CSR goals.
So for today's episode, we are celebrating B Corp Month, and then it will be
a B Corp special episode.
(00:49):
On that note, we will be speaking to Keith, a very special guest with us.
He is a team member of the B Lab Singapore, a non-profit organization.
Welcome, Keith! Thank you, Nabilah. Before we start, I would like to introduce
you a little bit. Can you share with us more about who you are?
(01:10):
Sure. So right now, I've just joined B-Lab Singapore about a month ago,
and I lead the business development and partnerships team.
Prior to joining B-Lab, I was in the technology outsourcing industry.
I was an entrepreneur and founder there for about 15 years. And I really joined
(01:31):
B-Lab because I believe that business is the best platform for social change.
And in my previous firm, I saw firsthand how job creation was really the key,
best way to uplift people, families, and ultimately communities.
And so when this opportunity to join B-Lab came up,
(01:55):
I jumped at the opportunity because I thought, hey, this was a great chance
for me to get involved with a global movement and one that really is going out
there and making transformation happen within companies.
And companies impact so many people, their customers, their stakeholders, and society at large.
I see that you are leading the business development and partnerships of B-Lab, is that right?
(02:20):
That's right. Then what does your role entail from a day-to-day basis?
Well, in essence, my role is to go out there and get people to sign up to become
B Corps or to use our B Impact Assessment Framework to assess their company's
impact on that community,
(02:42):
on their customers, on their employees, on their governance frameworks.
Works and so yeah in essence I'm the sales person for B Corp which you know.
I see. Okay. Maybe a little bit for the listeners out there who might not have
a good idea of what the B Corp is about.
Maybe you'd like to share what is the B Corp movement, and maybe you can share
(03:04):
some examples of the existing organizations that we have in Singapore, the local scene.
Absolutely. So the B Corp movement, the B, is actually short for benefit,
and it really represents a transformative approach to business.
And it seeks to get businesses to balance profit with purpose, profit with impact,
(03:25):
and profit with taking into consideration the wider stakeholder network that
a business ultimately comes into contact with.
And B Corps are companies that have committed to meeting high standards of social
and environmental performance, transparency, and accountability.
And they do this by going through
(03:47):
the bee impact assessment and assessing themselves
on five key areas once they do this and they achieve a particular score they
can then get independently verified and once they get independently verified
they become a what we call a certified bee corp some of the best known bee corps
(04:07):
in the world include the guardian newspaper Vapor,
Danone, Palms, Body Shop, Ben & Jerry's, L'Occitane.
So these are some of the most famous brands in the world that are B-cops.
In Singapore, some of our most well-known consumer brands, Salad Stop,
for example, which became a B-cop last year,
(04:29):
Another company in Singapore is called BP The Silver, which is the region's
oldest family business.
They're a B Corp as well. They're a very famous jeweler.
They also own tea plantations as well.
And might I also add that Make The Change is perhaps also a B Corp. Yes. Indeed.
(04:51):
I do find it very meaningful to see that several companies in Singapore are
doing their part into making the world a better place, getting B Corp certified and all.
But speaking of that, what are the benefits of a company being on board,
being B Corp certified? Right.
So being a B Corp is a lot more than just getting a certification,
(05:14):
but it really represents a continuous commitment to improvement.
Certified B Corps are required to recertify every three years,
so they have to go through the assessment again every three years.
And what we've seen across many companies is that they've improved their score
as time went on. For example, Patagonia has improved their score by more than
(05:37):
50% over the years that they've been a B Corp.
And what this means is they're really creating more impact.
They're being more employee-focused. They're being more customer-focused.
They're being more stakeholder-focused throughout the years.
And this does not mean that their business is suffering. It means that you can
do well by doing good, and it can come together.
(06:02):
And so that's kind of like the basic tenet of why people become B Corps,
because they want to create a business that has a positive social impact.
And what we offer is a framework for them to track, to create a baseline,
to benchmark and to track how they're doing that across a period of time.
(06:22):
Because a lot of people can say, yeah, I'm creating a business and my business
does well in the world, but how do you know for sure that you're doing well?
Well, we offer a framework that has been evolved and modified over the many
years to ensure that it's up to date and that it's relevant to companies.
So that's, I think, the main thing about being a B Corp is that it's this core
(06:44):
commitment and companies who want to do it, do it, right?
And they do it well. The other more, I would say, obvious reasons,
for example, about being a sustainable company, about being a company that takes
care of its customers, employees,
and community, is that it generally comes back to the companies in profits. Yes.
(07:07):
Many companies have better employee engagement, much better than peers who aren't
focused on these issues, focused on making sure that they're a good company.
Because good companies are more
resilient, and they tend to have better engagement with their employees.
And when your employees are more engaged, well, they perform better.
(07:28):
They're more creative. They're more innovative.
They're more happy. They're just happier people. And then happier employees
generally makes happier customers.
And so we see that in a lot of our B Corps who actually grow throughout the
years. And we're talking about revenues while being a B Corps.
So I would say employee engagement, attracting another big benefit is attracting
(07:51):
values aligned capital, as we call it, from impact investors or investors who
say, I want to invest in a company that does well in this world, does good things.
No one wants to invest in a tobacco company today, right?
And this is just the opposite on that spectrum.
Well, it's not just neutral, but we're actually doing positive things in this world.
(08:14):
And many investors out there, they want to invest in companies like that because why not?
Why not invest, put your money in something that actually generates positivity,
change, positive change in this world?
And I'll say the last thing, in essence, is the branding.
(08:36):
Consumers today, we know in the marketplace, they want branding.
To be a good consumer. They want to consume things that make them feel that
they're putting their dollars towards something that is good.
And what the B Corp logo is, when you have a certified B Corp logo on your product,
(08:58):
your service, it tells consumers, it tells your business customers that you're a good company.
And I think that translates into better sales. We see a lot of great brands
across the world, consumer brands that have become B Corps because they want
to do well, but there is a business purpose to that as well.
(09:18):
Because they want their customers to know that they're a good company,
that their products are well-designed, their products are well-made,
their products don't create unnecessary waste in this world.
Then their products perhaps are something that are in line with the ethical
and moral and aspirational values of the consumers themselves.
(09:41):
I think you gave a very good brief on how organizations could actually get on
board into becoming a B Corp.
But it leaves me the question of, would there be potential challenges when it
comes to getting certified? Because I do understand that there will be changes along the way.
Example, like the relevant topics and the standards as well.
(10:03):
So then what would be the challenges for these organizations?
Sure. Let me kind of start off by saying that, look, not every company today
can and should be a B Corp.
We would love every company in the world to be a B Corp. I think that's basically
part of our mission and our vision, to see every company be a platform for social
(10:25):
change, be a platform for doing good.
But not every company can really be a B Corp. And if you take it to a normal
for-profit company and they come and apply and they go through the B impact
assessment, they'll typically probably get somewhere between 50 to 60 points.
To become a B Corp, you need to have 80 points. you
(10:46):
know so it's it's not a low bar by
any chance it's a high bar and going
through an assessment many companies
will find that it's difficult to really meet the 80 points to really first become
a b-corp but many b-corps have scores that are 100 and 100 points 120 points
130 points and so you know there's this there is still a huge gap between what is a traditional.
(11:14):
Generic for-profit company and what a b-club is and one of that is that does
your product your service create impact in this world and most for-profit companies
don't create impact in this world.
Most for-profit companies, maybe they do no harm, but they're not in the positive realm either.
(11:39):
And I think that's why it's difficult. It's challenging.
But many companies, if you think about companies like Danone,
Sanofi, Unilever, Nespresso, probably one of our most famous B Corps,
how did they become a B Corps?
Well, because they had to implement a lot of changes in their business model
to create positivity within their business model before they could become a B Corp.
(12:04):
And I think that's the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is creating
change within a business that has existed for some time.
If your business has existed for 25 years and you want to change that business,
to say now I'm going to intertwine my business model with impact business models,
how can I create create positive change in the environment or the community
(12:27):
or change my HR policy so that I'm treating my workers in a totally different
way than I've been doing. Well, that's a lot of change, right?
And you've got internal stakeholders who may not be happy about it. You have pushback.
And so I think that's, I would say, the biggest summarized challenge for B Corps or for companies Okay.
(12:50):
All right. So I do understand that to be a certified B Corp,
it is a global movement for an inclusive and, you know, equitable economy.
So then how do individuals like us get involved in this besides being in an organization?
Absolutely. Well, I would say that there are many ways to get involved with the B Corp movement.
(13:11):
As you're right, the B Corp movement is primarily targeted at companies,
and we try and target people within the companies to get trained,
to get educated, to become aware about the B Impact Assessment Framework and the B Corp in general.
But any single person can come to us, volunteer with the B Corp movement in
(13:32):
Singapore and anywhere in the world, because really what we need are champions.
We need people who see that business is a force for good, can be a force for
good, should be a force for good.
And how can they be part of that? that we need everything from people who help
us at events, who help us to do design, help us do social media,
(13:53):
help us do a podcast maybe, right?
And how can someone help us to go out and talk to more companies,
tell friends and family about the B Corp movement?
And that's really what we need. We need evangelists who can help us spread the
word about B Corp, especially because in Asia, it is very nascent,
the B Corp movement. where B-Lab was only set up in 2002.
(14:17):
So we're really only into our third year of operation right now,
formally setting up B-Lab in Singapore to promote the B Corp movement here.
So we need all the help that we can get.
I see. Thank you for that. Before we wrap up this episode, I do have one last question for you.
As a company, what are some specific impact efforts in becoming a B Corp?
(14:42):
Certainly. I'll just talk maybe about two or three separate examples that companies
could do to create impact in the world.
And it doesn't have to be specific to the B Corp movement.
It could be, you know, if you're a company out there or you're an entrepreneur
out there and you say, hey, you know, how can I create a business and I want
(15:03):
to create a business, a for-profit business, but how can I also then create impact in the world?
Well, the first thing, let me just talk about hiring, right?
Make the change, works with people with disabilities. And I think that in many companies today,
you can say, look, there are some roles within any company where I could be
(15:26):
a little bit more diverse in my hiring.
I could hire people with disabilities and they could work from home and that
would have totally zero impact on my operations.
Or maybe even if they had some impact on your operations, then you had to change
your operations to accommodate the diversity in your hiring,
then you should do that because that is impact in itself, right?
(15:48):
Giving a job to someone who might not necessarily have gotten the job without
you saying, yes, let me hire someone with disability, right?
And I think so that's an example where companies could do that and be more diverse
in their hiring and be more deliberately diverse in their hiring and say,
how can I use this job to change someone's life? and then perhaps that person's family's life.
(16:12):
That's one way to think about it.
Another way to think about what a company could do would be in relevance to their customers.
So for example, you could, through your service or your product,
encourage customers to consume something that is better for the environment,
(16:34):
it might be better for communities, It might be better for your workers.
It could be better for anything.
But how can you, as a company, promote and encourage consumers to consume something that's better?
And that's an impact in itself because you are basically using your platform
as a business to get consumers to consume something a little bit better.
(16:59):
And that's also another thing that someone can do.
And that would be considered by the B Corp movement or the B-Impact Assessment
Framework as an impact business model, you know.
And if you, for example, if that formulated 20%, 30% of your revenues.
Then that's still a great impact, you know what I mean?
So you're still getting some change in this world by saying,
(17:21):
oh, you know what, why don't, you know, there are two options here.
We offer option one, which is maybe the less positive option.
Now we've got more environmentally positive option.
And then maybe the one that's more environmentally positive,
that's 10% more, 15% more. Are you willing to do that?
And maybe we tell you why it's better to do that.
(17:42):
And customers, sometimes, some portion of customers will say, yeah, you know what?
I would pay more to get the better, the one that's better for the world,
better for the environment.
And so that's how companies can create change. And I'll talk about the last
one, the last thing, for example, how can companies create impact?
(18:02):
Look at any company has a set of people, right?
And this is one of the things that we look at within the B impact assessment.
What is the variance between the highest paid person in the organization and
the lowest paid person in an organization?
And we ask ourselves, is that variance fair? If that's a huge variance,
(18:25):
then maybe there's something wrong with the organization.
Why is the lowest paid person paid so much less than the highest paid person?
What's wrong with the organization?
So that's one thing for companies to think about.
And then maybe companies can ask themselves, how could you create a program
such that the lowest paid person has the opportunity to move up and earn more?
(18:50):
Or are we providing them the right tools, the right capability,
building blocks, training, education?
What can you do to change someone's life that's within your organization itself?
And if you're changing the lives of the people within your organization,
then you're making an impact every single day that these people come to work for you.
(19:13):
It is really heartwarming to see a lot of businesses in Singapore doing this
as a force for good. and I guess the main purpose is not just making money as
like what you mentioned, but more importantly, to serve the community in a sustainable way.
And that comes back to the business, you know, that be creating a sustainable,
resilient company is going to be better for business in the long run.
(19:36):
I do agree, especially when we are talking about a long-term impact,
how the community benefits and how the employees, for example,
in our organization are happy at the end of the day. And I do have a sentence
that you mentioned earlier.
Previously, I feel that it really resonates with myself when you said,
(19:57):
how can I create impact in the world?
Not only just an organization perspective, but individually, how can I contribute?
And I do really like that you emphasize on that.
Absolutely. Every single person has a lot of ways that they can impact the world positively.
Even if you're not in the impact space, even if you're not working in a charity or a social enterprise,
(20:20):
there are so many ways and I think we should get
everyone to come forward be involved the
only way to make change is to get involved it is
definitely not easy being be caught but it is inspiring to
see change of people as change makers so with that I would like to thank you
for being a part of this episode for your time and sharing today and of course
(20:45):
to all of our listeners out there for joining us and tuning in into the topic of B Corp.
So for more information on how you can get involved and be a part of this movement,
please visit our website at makethechange.sg.
And to know more about B Corp, please visit bcopsingapore.org.
Don't forget to tune to our next episode of our Conversation of Change,
(21:09):
where we will be bringing you inspiring stories and insightful conversations.
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