Unleash the power of social finance in your life with our podcast, "Conversations of Change". Join our host, Nabilah, as she talks to Eric, a visionary leader from GoodWhale. He shares inspiring insights about his organization’s mission to revolutionize financial literacy and investing education, with a particular focus on helping tech-savvy individuals to fulfil their financial goals.
Fathom the depth of social impact with Eric, as he narrates GoodWhale’s journey towards achieving B Corp certification. Recognizing the seamless alignment of GoodWhale's objectives with impact-driven values, Eric stresses the importance of making a social impact as a B Corp company. He even elaborates on grappling with the initial challenges of balancing profit generation with social value creation.
Eric addresses the various pillars that B Corp certification entails. Drawing inspiration from Duolingo's business model, GoodWhale looks to provide a similar impact using a sustainable model. Eric advocates care while considering investment options and GoodWhale's aspiration to become everyone's trusted 'life investing companion'.
In this in-depth conversation, embrace the opportunity to learn more about how GoodWhale cultivates financial literacy as a fundamental right, the role of AI in personalizing financial education, and the organization's march towards B Corp certification.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:08):
Hello everyone, welcome to Conversation of Change, the podcast that features
social entrepreneurs that create inspiring and positively impactful work.
My name is Nabilah and I am a change maker with Make the Change,
a social enterprise in Singapore offering learning programs to tertiary students
and persons with disabilities,
(00:29):
offering creative services to businesses as well as educating corporates about
creating lasting impact and attaining their targeted CSR goals.
Today, we are joined by a remarkable individual. He is none other than Eric from Goodwill.
He is a visionary leader in the realm of finance and social impact dedicated
(00:51):
to revolutionizing the way we approach investing.
Welcome, Eric. Hi, Nabila. Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah, It is a pleasure to have you here with us. But before we start,
would you mind sharing more about yourself?
Hi everyone, my name is Eric. I'm an accidental entrepreneur because not like
(01:14):
other entrepreneurs out there, they are determined to start a company from ground zero.
So for us, we did so-called reverse takeover from the previous management of these assets.
And right now we are running this so-called goodwill products that we offer
people on learning about investing, learning about how to make better personal
(01:34):
finance decisions. So this is WHOYA.
I see. Okay, that's nice. Can you tell us more about the mission,
vision, or maybe the goals as well of Goodwill and how it aims to promote financial
literacy at the same time doing good?
So for us, our vision is a world where there's no financial constraint.
(01:56):
So in short, our vision is really a world where people can be their best version
of their life unrestrained by money.
And our mission is to support people in building their life blueprint by creating
the best life, best thing, companion in the world and make it universal available.
(02:16):
So for us, our really belief in financial literacy is based on human rights
and we like to spread this financial knowledge to everyone around the world. Thank you for sharing.
I do know that there are a lot of investing platforms or apps or websites currently
in the market and in the digital world.
So how does Goodwill itself differentiate from the rest?
(02:39):
Okay, so for us, we are not exactly investing platform or investing so-called
brokerage platform that you find out there.
Or even like some of the financial institutions, like the banks and stuff like
that. We are not exactly like that.
So for us, we see ourselves more like educational platform.
So we provide educational learning for people.
(03:01):
So maybe two steps back on how we came about.
So we have been doing investing education for years, more than 10 years.
We break down very complex investing knowledge concepts, make it more interactive
learning with games so that people could easily pick up fundamentals investing knowledge.
(03:22):
So fundamental investing knowledge is not a sexy thing. It's quite a boring thing.
So we do our best to make it as interesting, as interactive,
so that people can pick up the knowledge easily.
So this is how we have grown.
Throughout the COVID days, we see a lot of people making money, losing money.
And then we are asking ourselves, are they satisfied or are they happy on what they achieved?
(03:45):
So some of the things that we found that people would have made positive returns,
which is good, but they are unsatisfied with what they have made.
They are constantly comparing people who make more or better in their investing returns.
So we are asking them, so what are you looking for?
So they just say, I would just like to make more money. and then we subsequently delve further.
(04:07):
So why you like to make more money? What is the reason of making more money in that sense?
So that's why we found that actually a lot of people, before they go into their
personal finance or investings, they may not look into why they are doing this
or what's the reason and purpose or what's their goal in life.
Because if you just like to have, maybe go to a very simple and easy life,
(04:30):
actually you don't need to be a multi-billionaire. And you can have as simple
as three meals a day or just like go to copy down, whatever,
just have your meal fixed.
You don't need to be like, you need to fly to maybe Hong Kong for a high school.
I don't know. Yeah, so that's the things that we found.
We need to be more close to their life. So that's why our mission is really
to really build their life blueprint so they understand what they want,
(04:54):
be in their, as their companion so that they can constantly review why they
are doing certain stuff or making certain financial decisions.
So in the end of the day, they are content and satisfied with what they have achieved and also live.
Carefreer life. So this is what we are looking for.
And how do we compare with other technology or other companies out there?
(05:19):
It's really the purpose that we like to build. So it's not like make the best
investment in life, make the best situation in life.
So what we thought is like a situation where it's more suitable to their goal
or more suitable to their lifestyle kind of thing. So this is what we are aiming for.
You mentioned that Goodwill conducts perhaps workshops or invests to walk through
(05:42):
with them in terms of educating what finance can be or should be.
So are there particular communities that you target or any profile that you target?
Yeah, that's a very, very good question. So along what we have been doing for
a couple of years, we always thought that we just like to target everyone who
(06:02):
would like to build their so-called personal finance and investing journey.
But we found out that if you target everyone, it means you target no one.
Because a lot of things like we have been doing previously is like in offline manner.
So offline manners is more of a group whereby more elder, which means they are
more prone to like life or physical class.
(06:26):
So when we go into like technology, which means app or even websites,
we find the age group tend to be younger.
So along the way, we have shifted our so-called target group to people who are like 24 to 40 years old.
25, 40 years old, who are more tech savvy, who can learn through online,
(06:47):
who can learn through like app and stuff like that.
So these are the target group, age group that we are looking for.
And in terms of like, whether it's their specific niche or certain type of people,
I would say people who are in their career, they are
especially building their so-called financial planning, financial goals.
Especially in their highest human capital life age so that they can really.
(07:12):
Other than making money in their so-called active income route,
so how to grow their passive income route and how to grow their financial plan along the way.
So these are the group of people which is like you and me, 25 to 40 years old,
working or even running their own business.
So these are the people that we are looking for. So when you talk about like,
(07:33):
is there like, are we just purely like education, which is training?
So maybe I just share with you a bit more on how we approach this.
So we have these three ways of approaching, like giving values to the people out there.
So first is really good academy, like we provide like what you see just now,
workshop, training, education, program, stuff like that.
(07:55):
And the second is like more of like an online manner. So online manner in a
sense that I'd I would like to build our app, our community.
So we have our Google app, Google community app that's available in like Google
Play Store, or Google and Play Store, sorry, Google Play Store and App App Stores.
So this, it can be found online.
And the third is really the auto-pick investments that we provide to our users if they need with.
(08:21):
So for us, like, I think in terms of app itself, it's in a very interesting
age and stage right now because like AI is the common topic that people talk about.
For those who are in AI, they also talk about LL.
So I think technological atmosphere right here has changed and the technology tools that we could.
(08:42):
We could embark on is also a bit different like not like
last time it's like you give a question and give your answers like one
one on like one question one answer basis like faqs so
right now because of ais lm it can it
can be very highly personalized very highly customized
to a person question so for
example for example like a lot
(09:05):
of people who have different meaning when it comes to money like
money is like different meaning to them so they see
money as a tool or they see money as like their life
you stuff like that so money will be different for
every other people so maybe money for me right now at this stage is like i i
i would use this money to to raise my kid raise my child or for some other people
(09:25):
i want to use this money to to go travel and stuff like so so it carries different
meaning and also in cultural term it's also different so for for people raising kids in
maybe in like Asian part of world is different from Western part of world.
So in terms of like background may also different, but with AI and LMS that
are available out there, it can deliver it in a manner that's really with your taste.
(09:51):
So for example, people in Gen Z. So when we talk about money,
it's like, oh, how can I grow my money so that I can go to all the concerts
that happening in Singapore?
So I like to have my funds that I can go to all the concerts without worry in
the grade A stage or whatever.
It means I want to be in the center stage or whatever. So for people who are
(10:15):
in their 30s with kids at home, so they are thinking, how can I make sure that
my children's education funds are sufficient?
With or without me having like living like for example accidental whatever happens lah.
So these are the things that we like to build with AI and LLM so that when we
deliver the stories, we deliver the knowledge, it can customize to their culture
(10:39):
and to their background and different states of life.
Yeah. Okay, that's true. I just want to touch on because you mentioned AI which
is an interesting concept like right now it's currently trending.
So in terms of these changes along the way that will happen in the digital world?
How is Goodwill adapting to it?
Are you looking to like maybe every few months reformulating or maybe you can share more about that?
(11:06):
Okay, so for us, we are also very new to this. We are not like,
so we are not a technical, technological, innovative kind of companies like
some of the things that you see out there.
We are not the forerunner. So we are not like Google, Facebook.
I think yesterday, Yesterday, Facebook just announced that they have this Lama 3, the third version.
(11:26):
So we are not like the technological innovators. So for us, we focus more on
like applications and the user needs and to provide the best experience for them.
So previously, when we talk about teaching, so once, for example,
a lecture day at the hall.
So lecture day at the hall that like 200-300 students in front.
So these 200-300 students or 200-300 participants in the hall itself,
(11:49):
of they may not have the same learning so-called, they call it like learning
method, so are you audio kinesthetic or whatever, so different people have different learning method.
And it become more complicated when people will have like different language, different culture.
So it's difficult in that sense. So AI and LLM provide us the tools that we
(12:12):
can create or apply it so that our knowledge, when we deliver the knowledge,
it can be really customized to their experience.
So when we talk about money in our Asia part, we always have this thinking behind,
oh, we must save money, we must save money, we must save money,
but we don't know how to invest our money.
(12:32):
But in our Western part of the world, it's like, wow, I need to spend money,
I need to spend money, I need to spend money.
But when I spend money, how do I know that I didn't over-search myself?
So these are different contexts, even if in the same hall itself,
right now we are talking about globalization, people will have different thinking behind this.
So how, as Goodwill, can use all these learnings or the knowledge that we have
(12:58):
infused into AI and LLM so that deliver the knowledge catered to them.
So for example, So I come in in a knowledge like,
ah, how can I get the best credit card so we can deliver in a way that in your context,
this is the best credit card for you or in a context whereby I want to look
for the highest investment or so-called interest rate returns in terms of bank account.
(13:22):
So in your context, in your country, how can I share with you like the best
interest rate that you can find through your context itself?
Outcome and other than that it's like really depends on your your stage of life
so maybe you are just new to investing you have to get baby step investing but
a lot of like trainers or program out there they just straight away tell you
(13:43):
oh crypto is the best investment tool.
So so it's like it's not catered to the different stage of life or different.
Situation because it may or may not apply to you but
with ai i am that the technological empowerment or
tools that like created by all these technological firm
is really empower a lot of like people like us SMEs that
(14:05):
we can really create a better user experience so for us really focus much on
user experience and user needs application of it thank you for sharing Eric
now let's move on to maybe discussing about your B Corp certification about
how the company is still on the pending process.
So what motivated firstly for the company to pursue this particular certification.
(14:31):
Okay. So, this is a very, very interesting journey that we have. So, I think,
So there's a stage of time, there's some restructuring of the team.
And that's when the teams that run Goodwill, we come together and have this strategic meeting.
So we ask ourselves these three different questions.
So we ask ourselves, what do we ambition for the company in maybe next two, three years?
(14:56):
And then second is like, what do we ambition for the team? So how do we want our team to be?
And then lastly is like, how do we ambition ourselves in this journey?
Journey so these three different questions that we
find out all our team members are very particularly
so-called impact driven we are
not here just for for money of course money is important but
(15:18):
we are not just here just for money we are
here really see what we can like create value create the the highest impact
for the people for the for the the world as a large so we find out we are very
very impact driven and this is when we found B Corp values and B Corp targets
is very aligned with what we wanted to be.
(15:40):
Not really be a force for good, so a business for a force of good.
We think if we are really committed to this calling, we are really committed
to these values and the path that we like to create a company.
So we thought, why not just commit ourselves?
Like what ISO does, we commit ourselves as a B Corp company.
(16:02):
So this is how we started our process and we go into like applying as a B Corp
and why unlike other companies like they got a B Corp full status but we are
in pending status is this.
So for our companies to go for B Corp, that's one of the criteria that we haven't
met yet. So we incorporate our companies around August.
(16:25):
So we are not one year old, August last year. So we have yet to reach our one year old.
Although we have run different activities and stuff longer than that,
but registered as a company, we are lesser than a year old.
So that's why we are still at the pending stage at current.
But we will get this full B Corp status likely in the end.
(16:46):
Know this year yeah all right looking
forward to that to happen okay besides that
were there any other challenges that you or maybe
the team faced when it comes to this certification process yeah definitely yeah
that's the question that we have asking ourselves day by day yeah so i mean
(17:06):
as a b corp uh it's very different from uh what we what we used to run as a
company Because like as a company,
we have to put more emphasis on shareholders.
So profit generating, generating income is one of the more priority in running a company.
So why do we run a company if we cannot pay ourselves and make money for our
(17:29):
shareholders kind of thing?
So this is the thing whereby traditional companies would very much focus on generating income.
So for going to B Corp, other than like financially sustainable,
available, which is important as a B Corp.
It is not a social enterprise whereby we don't look at bottom line.
So as a B Corp, we have to look at the bottom line. We need to make money,
but at the same time, how do we create social impact?
(17:51):
So the societal impact that we need to go for as well.
So I think it's the fine balance between like social and also profit bottom line.
Thinking like what is the best price to charge or what is the money profiting
balance, we cannot charge too high whereby it defeats the purpose of spreading financial literacy.
(18:13):
We cannot charge too low whereby in the end, we are not financially sustainable.
So I think these are the things whereby when we go for B Corp or as a company
alone, we are so-called finding this balancing at times challenging at this moment.
I see. Okay, for those listeners out there who are still on the fence or not
(18:35):
too sure about what the B Corp pillars are. I'll just explain a little bit.
So, I mean, Eric, you can correct me if I'm wrong, because you are the one who
personally is applying for it.
But based on their website, B Corp certification involves or includes like customers,
governance, community workers, and lastly, would be environment.
(18:57):
So, when it comes to Goodwill's context are there certain pillars that you focus
more or is it more or less equal as a whole okay so for us we.
We are more on the societal impact not so much about environmental impact
because for us we we doesn't like we
(19:17):
are not manufacturing companies or we are not like a physical
product companies whereby like we we create a lot of like so carbon or whatever
in the price so for us we focus more on societal impact so for us uh really
focus on how we can like help improve family finances how we can increase the
financial literacy of a company or of a family or for
(19:38):
our family as a whole, to improve the financial literacy so that the companies
could have more savings or could did their family budget so to grow their family
as a whole so that this family,
not just individual, this family
can live their best version of their life without financial constraint.
So this is the societal impact that we are going. And then we find that actually
(19:58):
very much inspired by Duolingo.
So if you have used Duolingo, like learning language, So, do you use Duolingo to learn any language?
I think because I learned Mandarin when I was young and then it got a little
bit not as proficient over the years.
(20:19):
So, I did use it now and then, especially when I'm traveling to like a new country.
I think it's quite useful in terms of learning like short phrases.
Yeah. So, are you a paying user? No.
All right. So, for Duolingo, their goal is very, very simple.
So how they found it is like they find English is very
(20:39):
important especially for people in maybe Latin
America Southern America because the founder is
from there and they find or he find
he can able to earn better or
have a better quality of life because he know English so he find like if he
can so called empower his group of people people with the same background with
(21:01):
the ability of conversing or writing English all these people can have a better
life and increase their life, maybe quality of life and stuff like that.
So this is how it started. And then he find the exactly same group of people,
may not be able to pay fees for
the language learning so if he creates some
(21:22):
things that require high fee it deferred the purpose of helping this group of
people so that's when the business model is something like so they they have
like close to 600 billion users so have a guess these 600 million users how
many of them are paying users or how like what's the percentage are paying users?
(21:43):
I think maybe 20% of it are paying users. Okay.
Yeah. So it's lesser than that. Oh. So it's like roughly 7% to 8% of their users
are the paying users that are supporting the rest of the 93% of people.
So in other words, they are creating this company really good for 93% of people,
(22:07):
but they also understand that they need to be financially sustainable.
So the 7% people are really paying for their operations, for their team and stuff like that.
So beauty itself, they have this high impact to the world, but also achieving
this financial sustainability.
So this is what we aspire ourselves to be and really pretty much inspired by them.
(22:31):
So we also believe that financial literacy is for all. It's not just for certain
group of people whereby they have money so that they need to manage money.
No, it's like for every other people, if you like to have a better life,
actually, we need to be financially literate.
And this is why we are building for, really aspire by them, create for the so-called
(22:51):
90% above people so that we can have bigger impact to the world.
Yeah, so we have a lot of different plans of like going to these people,
not just like for technological aspect, which is the app itself.
We plan to achieve that but we also like go to schools we go we teach like secondary
school students we also like creating formulating our so-called programs that
(23:13):
can target like people at a younger age helping them to understand financial
receipts yeah so this is what what we are going for as a B Corp really,
create the highest impact that we can with the society.
Right thank you for sharing especially about your the insights about Dolingo
I didn't know about that at all but for those companies company outside who
(23:33):
are also on the same page as you, trying to get their B Corp certification,
what kind of advice would you give to them? How does it benefit them at the end of the day?
Maybe not just benefiting them, but for the community that they are targeting per se? I think.
B Corp is something like ISO standard where we commit to
(23:54):
it really like serve for a higher purpose
so it's really a message that we send
out to people whereby we really accompanies for
force of good so i think this is a message whereby it's really if this message
really struck you i think there's no reason why you don't go for it so this
is the first thing and then the second thing about because like they they have
(24:15):
a really strong community like make the change like ourselves We are a strong
community whereby we really like to empower each other,
to support each other in all our different causes because we really believe
if we are just purely focusing on profits,
the world might not be as beautiful as we envision it to be.
(24:36):
So if we're focusing on the world as a whole, we like to create good value,
really be a force of good.
I think with this belief, this community is really great that we can come to each other.
And then B Corp itself, they provide a lot of different causes,
programs, or even events for us to come together.
(24:56):
So I think this is a really great community that we really love to be in.
We didn't know it before we got ourselves in this application,
but right now, after enjoying all this program, like leadership,
like sustainability leadership program, our so-called gatherings.
Knowing each other, I think these are the avenues whereby we can seek collaborations,
(25:18):
we can seek better, greater goods whereby we can really create together.
So I think this is a great space to be in.
Right. I think it's very nice to see and enlightening to hear about how Goodwill
is being committed to doing good, to promote financial literacy at the same
time to schools and to the public as well.
(25:40):
And at the same time, Goodwill is promoting social responsibility in this world of investing.
So I just want to ask before we wrap up from an individual level, for example, myself,
what kind of advice or key takeaway would you share when it comes to using investing
apps or maybe considering investment options? Would goodwill be one of it?
(26:04):
Yeah, definitely. So I think it's really back to the visions that we have.
We really like a world where people can be the best versions of their life.
So that's why we really like to be your life investing companion to journey this along with you.
So unlike others like investing app or platforms out there, they generate a
(26:26):
profit based on your volume, your transaction and stuff like that.
That really focus on your investing education or investing learning journey.
This is really your life investing companion to journey this along together
with you, not taking advantage of your protection or whatever.
So really focus on how we can be in your so-called life blueprint and support you along this journey.
(26:52):
So in terms of learning, we have this quest module.
So you can always go to download our Google app. you can
learn from the basics from like personal finance saving budgeting to
investing like what is profit what is like profit margin and stuff like that
so these are the journeys that we like to go along with you as your like investing
companion all right thank you eric so much for being a part of this episode
(27:16):
are there any last words or parting advice for anyone,
yep so thanks nabila for for these like
opportunities and really uh thanks for reaching out to us
so i'm not a really good person in
giving advice but if i were just to
tell the younger self uh that on on this like journey investing is just a part
(27:38):
of your life there's bigger part which is your life so don't treat investing
as your your only measurement in your life uh we should also take care of our
health take care of our family relationship uh all you all.
So this is what we also like to journey along with all the users.
So be the best version of our life.
(27:59):
All right, thank you. That was very insightful. So as we reflect on the main
takeaways from our conversation, it's evident about how goodwill brings good.
And I guess in a way, it creates some sort of critical thinking in the users
to think that it's not just about profiting, that there are other aspects in
(28:20):
life that we can contribute, essentially.
So as we draw this episode to a close, thank you, Eric, for your time and sharing today.
Thank you. Thank you, Nabila. And thank you to our listeners out there for joining
us on this journey of exploration and discovery.
So for more information on Make the Change, please visit our website at makethechange.sg.
(28:42):
And to know more about Goodwill, be sure to check out goodwill.com.
Stay tuned for our next episode of Conversation of Change, where we will continue
bringing you captivating stories and thought-provoking discussions.
Music.
Music.
(00:08):
Hello everyone, welcome to Conversation of Change, the podcast that features
social entrepreneurs that create inspiring and positively impactful work.
My name is Nabilah and I am a change maker with Make the Change,
a social enterprise in Singapore offering learning programs to tertiary students
and persons with disabilities,
(00:29):
offering creative services to businesses as well as educating corporates about
creating lasting impact and attaining their targeted CSR goals.
Today, we are joined by a remarkable individual. He is none other than Eric from Goodwill.
He is a visionary leader in the realm of finance and social impact dedicated
(00:51):
to revolutionizing the way we approach investing.
Welcome, Eric. Hi, Nabila. Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah, It is a pleasure to have you here with us. But before we start,
would you mind sharing more about yourself?
Hi everyone, my name is Eric. I'm an accidental entrepreneur because not like
(01:14):
other entrepreneurs out there, they are determined to start a company from ground zero.
So for us, we did so-called reverse takeover from the previous management of these assets.
And right now we are running this so-called goodwill products that we offer
people on learning about investing, learning about how to make better personal
(01:34):
finance decisions. So this is WHOYA.
I see. Okay, that's nice. Can you tell us more about the mission,
vision, or maybe the goals as well of Goodwill and how it aims to promote financial
literacy at the same time doing good?
So for us, our vision is a world where there's no financial constraint.
(01:56):
So in short, our vision is really a world where people can be their best version
of their life unrestrained by money.
And our mission is to support people in building their life blueprint by creating
the best life, best thing, companion in the world and make it universal available.
(02:16):
So for us, our really belief in financial literacy is based on human rights
and we like to spread this financial knowledge to everyone around the world. Thank you for sharing.
I do know that there are a lot of investing platforms or apps or websites currently
in the market and in the digital world.
So how does Goodwill itself differentiate from the rest?
(02:39):
Okay, so for us, we are not exactly investing platform or investing so-called
brokerage platform that you find out there.
Or even like some of the financial institutions, like the banks and stuff like
that. We are not exactly like that.
So for us, we see ourselves more like educational platform.
So we provide educational learning for people.
(03:01):
So maybe two steps back on how we came about.
So we have been doing investing education for years, more than 10 years.
We break down very complex investing knowledge concepts, make it more interactive
learning with games so that people could easily pick up fundamentals investing knowledge.
(03:22):
So fundamental investing knowledge is not a sexy thing. It's quite a boring thing.
So we do our best to make it as interesting, as interactive,
so that people can pick up the knowledge easily.
So this is how we have grown.
Throughout the COVID days, we see a lot of people making money, losing money.
And then we are asking ourselves, are they satisfied or are they happy on what they achieved?
(03:45):
So some of the things that we found that people would have made positive returns,
which is good, but they are unsatisfied with what they have made.
They are constantly comparing people who make more or better in their investing returns.
So we are asking them, so what are you looking for?
So they just say, I would just like to make more money. and then we subsequently delve further.
(04:07):
So why you like to make more money? What is the reason of making more money in that sense?
So that's why we found that actually a lot of people, before they go into their
personal finance or investings, they may not look into why they are doing this
or what's the reason and purpose or what's their goal in life.
Because if you just like to have, maybe go to a very simple and easy life,
(04:30):
actually you don't need to be a multi-billionaire. And you can have as simple
as three meals a day or just like go to copy down, whatever,
just have your meal fixed.
You don't need to be like, you need to fly to maybe Hong Kong for a high school.
I don't know. Yeah, so that's the things that we found.
We need to be more close to their life. So that's why our mission is really
to really build their life blueprint so they understand what they want,
(04:54):
be in their, as their companion so that they can constantly review why they
are doing certain stuff or making certain financial decisions.
So in the end of the day, they are content and satisfied with what they have achieved and also live.
Carefreer life. So this is what we are looking for.
And how do we compare with other technology or other companies out there?
(05:19):
It's really the purpose that we like to build. So it's not like make the best
investment in life, make the best situation in life.
So what we thought is like a situation where it's more suitable to their goal
or more suitable to their lifestyle kind of thing. So this is what we are aiming for.
You mentioned that Goodwill conducts perhaps workshops or invests to walk through
(05:42):
with them in terms of educating what finance can be or should be.
So are there particular communities that you target or any profile that you target?
Yeah, that's a very, very good question. So along what we have been doing for
a couple of years, we always thought that we just like to target everyone who
(06:02):
would like to build their so-called personal finance and investing journey.
But we found out that if you target everyone, it means you target no one.
Because a lot of things like we have been doing previously is like in offline manner.
So offline manners is more of a group whereby more elder, which means they are
more prone to like life or physical class.
(06:26):
So when we go into like technology, which means app or even websites,
we find the age group tend to be younger.
So along the way, we have shifted our so-called target group to people who are like 24 to 40 years old.
25, 40 years old, who are more tech savvy, who can learn through online,
(06:47):
who can learn through like app and stuff like that.
So these are the target group, age group that we are looking for.
And in terms of like, whether it's their specific niche or certain type of people,
I would say people who are in their career, they are
especially building their so-called financial planning, financial goals.
Especially in their highest human capital life age so that they can really.
(07:12):
Other than making money in their so-called active income route,
so how to grow their passive income route and how to grow their financial plan along the way.
So these are the group of people which is like you and me, 25 to 40 years old,
working or even running their own business.
So these are the people that we are looking for. So when you talk about like,
(07:33):
is there like, are we just purely like education, which is training?
So maybe I just share with you a bit more on how we approach this.
So we have these three ways of approaching, like giving values to the people out there.
So first is really good academy, like we provide like what you see just now,
workshop, training, education, program, stuff like that.
(07:55):
And the second is like more of like an online manner. So online manner in a
sense that I'd I would like to build our app, our community.
So we have our Google app, Google community app that's available in like Google
Play Store, or Google and Play Store, sorry, Google Play Store and App App Stores.
So this, it can be found online.
And the third is really the auto-pick investments that we provide to our users if they need with.
(08:21):
So for us, like, I think in terms of app itself, it's in a very interesting
age and stage right now because like AI is the common topic that people talk about.
For those who are in AI, they also talk about LL.
So I think technological atmosphere right here has changed and the technology tools that we could.
(08:42):
We could embark on is also a bit different like not like
last time it's like you give a question and give your answers like one
one on like one question one answer basis like faqs so
right now because of ais lm it can it
can be very highly personalized very highly customized
to a person question so for
example for example like a lot
(09:05):
of people who have different meaning when it comes to money like
money is like different meaning to them so they see
money as a tool or they see money as like their life
you stuff like that so money will be different for
every other people so maybe money for me right now at this stage is like i i
i would use this money to to raise my kid raise my child or for some other people
(09:25):
i want to use this money to to go travel and stuff like so so it carries different
meaning and also in cultural term it's also different so for for people raising kids in
maybe in like Asian part of world is different from Western part of world.
So in terms of like background may also different, but with AI and LMS that
are available out there, it can deliver it in a manner that's really with your taste.
(09:51):
So for example, people in Gen Z. So when we talk about money,
it's like, oh, how can I grow my money so that I can go to all the concerts
that happening in Singapore?
So I like to have my funds that I can go to all the concerts without worry in
the grade A stage or whatever.
It means I want to be in the center stage or whatever. So for people who are
(10:15):
in their 30s with kids at home, so they are thinking, how can I make sure that
my children's education funds are sufficient?
With or without me having like living like for example accidental whatever happens lah.
So these are the things that we like to build with AI and LLM so that when we
deliver the stories, we deliver the knowledge, it can customize to their culture
(10:39):
and to their background and different states of life.
Yeah. Okay, that's true. I just want to touch on because you mentioned AI which
is an interesting concept like right now it's currently trending.
So in terms of these changes along the way that will happen in the digital world?
How is Goodwill adapting to it?
Are you looking to like maybe every few months reformulating or maybe you can share more about that?
(11:06):
Okay, so for us, we are also very new to this. We are not like,
so we are not a technical, technological, innovative kind of companies like
some of the things that you see out there.
We are not the forerunner. So we are not like Google, Facebook.
I think yesterday, Yesterday, Facebook just announced that they have this Lama 3, the third version.
(11:26):
So we are not like the technological innovators. So for us, we focus more on
like applications and the user needs and to provide the best experience for them.
So previously, when we talk about teaching, so once, for example,
a lecture day at the hall.
So lecture day at the hall that like 200-300 students in front.
So these 200-300 students or 200-300 participants in the hall itself,
(11:49):
of they may not have the same learning so-called, they call it like learning
method, so are you audio kinesthetic or whatever, so different people have different learning method.
And it become more complicated when people will have like different language, different culture.
So it's difficult in that sense. So AI and LLM provide us the tools that we
(12:12):
can create or apply it so that our knowledge, when we deliver the knowledge,
it can be really customized to their experience.
So when we talk about money in our Asia part, we always have this thinking behind,
oh, we must save money, we must save money, we must save money,
but we don't know how to invest our money.
(12:32):
But in our Western part of the world, it's like, wow, I need to spend money,
I need to spend money, I need to spend money.
But when I spend money, how do I know that I didn't over-search myself?
So these are different contexts, even if in the same hall itself,
right now we are talking about globalization, people will have different thinking behind this.
So how, as Goodwill, can use all these learnings or the knowledge that we have
(12:58):
infused into AI and LLM so that deliver the knowledge catered to them.
So for example, So I come in in a knowledge like,
ah, how can I get the best credit card so we can deliver in a way that in your context,
this is the best credit card for you or in a context whereby I want to look
for the highest investment or so-called interest rate returns in terms of bank account.
(13:22):
So in your context, in your country, how can I share with you like the best
interest rate that you can find through your context itself?
Outcome and other than that it's like really depends on your your stage of life
so maybe you are just new to investing you have to get baby step investing but
a lot of like trainers or program out there they just straight away tell you
(13:43):
oh crypto is the best investment tool.
So so it's like it's not catered to the different stage of life or different.
Situation because it may or may not apply to you but
with ai i am that the technological empowerment or
tools that like created by all these technological firm
is really empower a lot of like people like us SMEs that
(14:05):
we can really create a better user experience so for us really focus much on
user experience and user needs application of it thank you for sharing Eric
now let's move on to maybe discussing about your B Corp certification about
how the company is still on the pending process.
So what motivated firstly for the company to pursue this particular certification.
(14:31):
Okay. So, this is a very, very interesting journey that we have. So, I think,
So there's a stage of time, there's some restructuring of the team.
And that's when the teams that run Goodwill, we come together and have this strategic meeting.
So we ask ourselves these three different questions.
So we ask ourselves, what do we ambition for the company in maybe next two, three years?
(14:56):
And then second is like, what do we ambition for the team? So how do we want our team to be?
And then lastly is like, how do we ambition ourselves in this journey?
Journey so these three different questions that we
find out all our team members are very particularly
so-called impact driven we are
not here just for for money of course money is important but
(15:18):
we are not just here just for money we are
here really see what we can like create value create the the highest impact
for the people for the for the the world as a large so we find out we are very
very impact driven and this is when we found B Corp values and B Corp targets
is very aligned with what we wanted to be.
(15:40):
Not really be a force for good, so a business for a force of good.
We think if we are really committed to this calling, we are really committed
to these values and the path that we like to create a company.
So we thought, why not just commit ourselves?
Like what ISO does, we commit ourselves as a B Corp company.
(16:02):
So this is how we started our process and we go into like applying as a B Corp
and why unlike other companies like they got a B Corp full status but we are
in pending status is this.
So for our companies to go for B Corp, that's one of the criteria that we haven't
met yet. So we incorporate our companies around August.
(16:25):
So we are not one year old, August last year. So we have yet to reach our one year old.
Although we have run different activities and stuff longer than that,
but registered as a company, we are lesser than a year old.
So that's why we are still at the pending stage at current.
But we will get this full B Corp status likely in the end.
(16:46):
Know this year yeah all right looking
forward to that to happen okay besides that
were there any other challenges that you or maybe
the team faced when it comes to this certification process yeah definitely yeah
that's the question that we have asking ourselves day by day yeah so i mean
(17:06):
as a b corp uh it's very different from uh what we what we used to run as a
company Because like as a company,
we have to put more emphasis on shareholders.
So profit generating, generating income is one of the more priority in running a company.
So why do we run a company if we cannot pay ourselves and make money for our
(17:29):
shareholders kind of thing?
So this is the thing whereby traditional companies would very much focus on generating income.
So for going to B Corp, other than like financially sustainable,
available, which is important as a B Corp.
It is not a social enterprise whereby we don't look at bottom line.
So as a B Corp, we have to look at the bottom line. We need to make money,
but at the same time, how do we create social impact?
(17:51):
So the societal impact that we need to go for as well.
So I think it's the fine balance between like social and also profit bottom line.
Thinking like what is the best price to charge or what is the money profiting
balance, we cannot charge too high whereby it defeats the purpose of spreading financial literacy.
(18:13):
We cannot charge too low whereby in the end, we are not financially sustainable.
So I think these are the things whereby when we go for B Corp or as a company
alone, we are so-called finding this balancing at times challenging at this moment.
I see. Okay, for those listeners out there who are still on the fence or not
(18:35):
too sure about what the B Corp pillars are. I'll just explain a little bit.
So, I mean, Eric, you can correct me if I'm wrong, because you are the one who
personally is applying for it.
But based on their website, B Corp certification involves or includes like customers,
governance, community workers, and lastly, would be environment.
(18:57):
So, when it comes to Goodwill's context are there certain pillars that you focus
more or is it more or less equal as a whole okay so for us we.
We are more on the societal impact not so much about environmental impact
because for us we we doesn't like we
(19:17):
are not manufacturing companies or we are not like a physical
product companies whereby like we we create a lot of like so carbon or whatever
in the price so for us we focus more on societal impact so for us uh really
focus on how we can like help improve family finances how we can increase the
financial literacy of a company or of a family or for
(19:38):
our family as a whole, to improve the financial literacy so that the companies
could have more savings or could did their family budget so to grow their family
as a whole so that this family,
not just individual, this family
can live their best version of their life without financial constraint.
So this is the societal impact that we are going. And then we find that actually
(19:58):
very much inspired by Duolingo.
So if you have used Duolingo, like learning language, So, do you use Duolingo to learn any language?
I think because I learned Mandarin when I was young and then it got a little
bit not as proficient over the years.
(20:19):
So, I did use it now and then, especially when I'm traveling to like a new country.
I think it's quite useful in terms of learning like short phrases.
Yeah. So, are you a paying user? No.
All right. So, for Duolingo, their goal is very, very simple.
So how they found it is like they find English is very
(20:39):
important especially for people in maybe Latin
America Southern America because the founder is
from there and they find or he find
he can able to earn better or
have a better quality of life because he know English so he find like if he
can so called empower his group of people people with the same background with
(21:01):
the ability of conversing or writing English all these people can have a better
life and increase their life, maybe quality of life and stuff like that.
So this is how it started. And then he find the exactly same group of people,
may not be able to pay fees for
the language learning so if he creates some
(21:22):
things that require high fee it deferred the purpose of helping this group of
people so that's when the business model is something like so they they have
like close to 600 billion users so have a guess these 600 million users how
many of them are paying users or how like what's the percentage are paying users?
(21:43):
I think maybe 20% of it are paying users. Okay.
Yeah. So it's lesser than that. Oh. So it's like roughly 7% to 8% of their users
are the paying users that are supporting the rest of the 93% of people.
So in other words, they are creating this company really good for 93% of people,
(22:07):
but they also understand that they need to be financially sustainable.
So the 7% people are really paying for their operations, for their team and stuff like that.
So beauty itself, they have this high impact to the world, but also achieving
this financial sustainability.
So this is what we aspire ourselves to be and really pretty much inspired by them.
(22:31):
So we also believe that financial literacy is for all. It's not just for certain
group of people whereby they have money so that they need to manage money.
No, it's like for every other people, if you like to have a better life,
actually, we need to be financially literate.
And this is why we are building for, really aspire by them, create for the so-called
(22:51):
90% above people so that we can have bigger impact to the world.
Yeah, so we have a lot of different plans of like going to these people,
not just like for technological aspect, which is the app itself.
We plan to achieve that but we also like go to schools we go we teach like secondary
school students we also like creating formulating our so-called programs that
(23:13):
can target like people at a younger age helping them to understand financial
receipts yeah so this is what what we are going for as a B Corp really,
create the highest impact that we can with the society.
Right thank you for sharing especially about your the insights about Dolingo
I didn't know about that at all but for those companies company outside who
(23:33):
are also on the same page as you, trying to get their B Corp certification,
what kind of advice would you give to them? How does it benefit them at the end of the day?
Maybe not just benefiting them, but for the community that they are targeting per se? I think.
B Corp is something like ISO standard where we commit to
(23:54):
it really like serve for a higher purpose
so it's really a message that we send
out to people whereby we really accompanies for
force of good so i think this is a message whereby it's really if this message
really struck you i think there's no reason why you don't go for it so this
is the first thing and then the second thing about because like they they have
(24:15):
a really strong community like make the change like ourselves We are a strong
community whereby we really like to empower each other,
to support each other in all our different causes because we really believe
if we are just purely focusing on profits,
the world might not be as beautiful as we envision it to be.
(24:36):
So if we're focusing on the world as a whole, we like to create good value,
really be a force of good.
I think with this belief, this community is really great that we can come to each other.
And then B Corp itself, they provide a lot of different causes,
programs, or even events for us to come together.
(24:56):
So I think this is a really great community that we really love to be in.
We didn't know it before we got ourselves in this application,
but right now, after enjoying all this program, like leadership,
like sustainability leadership program, our so-called gatherings.
Knowing each other, I think these are the avenues whereby we can seek collaborations,
(25:18):
we can seek better, greater goods whereby we can really create together.
So I think this is a great space to be in.
Right. I think it's very nice to see and enlightening to hear about how Goodwill
is being committed to doing good, to promote financial literacy at the same
time to schools and to the public as well.
(25:40):
And at the same time, Goodwill is promoting social responsibility in this world of investing.
So I just want to ask before we wrap up from an individual level, for example, myself,
what kind of advice or key takeaway would you share when it comes to using investing
apps or maybe considering investment options? Would goodwill be one of it?
(26:04):
Yeah, definitely. So I think it's really back to the visions that we have.
We really like a world where people can be the best versions of their life.
So that's why we really like to be your life investing companion to journey this along with you.
So unlike others like investing app or platforms out there, they generate a
(26:26):
profit based on your volume, your transaction and stuff like that.
That really focus on your investing education or investing learning journey.
This is really your life investing companion to journey this along together
with you, not taking advantage of your protection or whatever.
So really focus on how we can be in your so-called life blueprint and support you along this journey.
(26:52):
So in terms of learning, we have this quest module.
So you can always go to download our Google app. you can
learn from the basics from like personal finance saving budgeting to
investing like what is profit what is like profit margin and stuff like that
so these are the journeys that we like to go along with you as your like investing
companion all right thank you eric so much for being a part of this episode
(27:16):
are there any last words or parting advice for anyone,
yep so thanks nabila for for these like
opportunities and really uh thanks for reaching out to us
so i'm not a really good person in
giving advice but if i were just to
tell the younger self uh that on on this like journey investing is just a part
(27:38):
of your life there's bigger part which is your life so don't treat investing
as your your only measurement in your life uh we should also take care of our
health take care of our family relationship uh all you all.
So this is what we also like to journey along with all the users.
So be the best version of our life.
(27:59):
All right, thank you. That was very insightful. So as we reflect on the main
takeaways from our conversation, it's evident about how goodwill brings good.
And I guess in a way, it creates some sort of critical thinking in the users
to think that it's not just about profiting, that there are other aspects in
(28:20):
life that we can contribute, essentially.
So as we draw this episode to a close, thank you, Eric, for your time and sharing today.
Thank you. Thank you, Nabila. And thank you to our listeners out there for joining
us on this journey of exploration and discovery.
So for more information on Make the Change, please visit our website at makethechange.sg.
(28:42):
And to know more about Goodwill, be sure to check out goodwill.com.
Stay tuned for our next episode of Conversation of Change, where we will continue
bringing you captivating stories and thought-provoking discussions.
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