Maker That Money S2 Ep3: Holding out for a Hero

Today we're joined by Andy Soderberg founder of the Hero Me advanced 3D printhead modular platform. We'll discuss what its like building a modular platform that supports over 35 BILLION different configurations for all the best brands of 3D printers!

Today's Guest: Andy Soderberg, Media Man - https://merlinmedia.com/  @MediaMan3D 

Two small business owners who got their start as makers share their experiences and unsolicited opinions a few years into their adventures.

Andrew Mayhall, Founder & Owner of 3D Gloop: @3dgloop Alan Puccinelli, Founder & Owner of Repkord: @Repkord ​

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
all right here we go

(00:05):
good morning happy Friday to everyone
welcome to maker that money season two
episode three I am your host Pooch of
repcord with me as always my trusty
partner in crime Mr Andrew mayhal of 3D
gloop and today we have with us as our
special guest Mr Andy Soderberg am I

(00:26):
saying that right Soderberg
uh you may know him as media Man 3d but
he is the should we call you the founder
the head the big the head honcho of the
my hero me project no so so let me yeah
let me uh do a little uh do a little
intro for us yeah the little clearing up
of that so sure I am not the original

(00:48):
designer of the hero me okay all right
that was done by uh gentleman uh from uh
the Dominican Republic back in middle of
2018 just a little over five years ago
um it's still on on
um thingiverse okay uh he created this
um cooling system that was modular the
me stands for modular Edition uh that

(01:10):
supported creality Ender three Ender
five a couple of hot ends
um and a couple different fan types and
that was it okay and he
um had to step away uh he had his wife
had a baby uh so I focused on family and
you know left the involvement I had been
involved in in using his stuff giving

(01:31):
some feedback
um and I saw a real value in this and I
took it off from there in in that I
started making my remixes
um and left the name the same
so what in respect for it what shall we
call you inter what is your title then
in terms of of this I'm going to update
your Chiron in real time here so we so

(01:53):
we get it so I I am uh uh you could you
could call me the curator curator there
it is okay it's been updated curator my
hero me and I didn't know the me was
modular Edition but we're gonna get into
all of that uh for those of you who are
uh Tuning In For the First Time welcome

(02:13):
uh this is podcast where we talk about
making makers uh all that good stuff and
the intersection of that and
entrepreneurism we record this just
about every Friday Live on YouTube so if
you want to interact with us that's a
great way we love seeing some familiar
faces in the chat let me give some quick
shout outs granted 3D Musketeers always

(02:34):
good to see you my friend Mike never let
the machines win I don't uh we got Gtech
Studios Andrew Rogers thank you so much
for being here thank you for your
support super chats all the things that
you guys do to help us keep this fun
content coming I know it's kind of Niche
and different we're all makers we all
enjoy talking about making but uh really

(02:55):
digging into the weeds and really
learning what it is to take that to a
full-time job is what we like to really
get in on uh regularly so if you're
listening back after the fact on your
favorite podcasting platforms we are on
all of them are just about all of them
as far as I'm aware uh and uh we we

(03:15):
welcome you to join us live sometime if
you'd like to interact there's uh also a
call-in option if you want there's a a
live uh maker that money hotline there's
a link right above my head on the
YouTube stream if you want to just watch
our bouncing bobbling heads while we
talk
and I and I that's it oh uh uh you know
do the usual like subscribe bring a

(03:36):
friend uh and then give us feedback all
of our tags for social media are down
below including uh Andy so if you need
to find us and we always put that stuff
in the description as well so uh we
appreciate you guys and thank you for
joining us this morning
today on the Pod we are going to get
into what it is uh all about I just put

(03:57):
a generic uh you know Holding Out for a
Hero because I I love a good a good
title hook but but what I'm really
particularly excited to get into uh Andy
is uh talking about modular design
talking about building community and
your particular business model around I
know you have a very robust patreon
support group uh and and other groups

(04:19):
that we're going to get into as well so
that's a little lead into that but
before we do
we're gonna do our uh typical we we have
a little bit we do we're very positive
we encourage everybody in the chat to do
the same thing we talk about our wins
for the week I feel like I need a like a
sound effect wins for the week ding ding
ding
Andrew mayhal not to so we're gonna call

(04:41):
you Andrew and Andy you'll be Andy just
so we don't confuse things so Andrew
will you please start us off with
something great that happened in your
life whether it's professionally or
personally sure
um let's see uh uh I got uh I got some
new equipment coming in
um you know expanding these yeah yeah
expanding you know my maker abilities if

(05:03):
you will uh I ordered a brand new welder
um and then uh
a MIG and then I pre-ordered a a TIG and
I got a new plasma cutter coming in as
well so building out the metal shop
there oh yeah what's your what's what's
your use case so you just you wanted to
get more into building yeah it's just
personal stuff yeah I've had it for a

(05:26):
while I've had a welder for a while but
uh you know it was time to upgrade
there's something so satisfying about
just welding and joining metal work in
general Andy you ever do any welding or
any uh no that's uh I I had wood shop in
high school but never got into the metal
shop side so that's all all Greek to me
yeah yeah okay well but we know you're a

(05:47):
man of many maker skills still uh
otherwise too so why don't you give us a
win for the week if you would sure sure
uh I I got a couple
um I have uh uh a new client uh on uh on
the uh
3D uh uh
print Farm space uh doing a a project

(06:10):
that I'm under non-disclosure on so I
can't talk about but it's a very cool
design it's something a patent is being
applied for uh that will be 3D printed
um and so and I've been working with
with that uh that client the last couple
of weeks on refining and and proving out
the repeatability uh manufacturability

(06:32):
of that uh his designs
um and then the other just um just
before this podcast I checked and saw my
email that my prusa XL uh the shipping
uh order you know the the shipping slip
email came through so uh my first day
order of a a two head semi-assembled

(06:55):
prus XL is on its way 660 odd days later
oh that's exciting and that's what I
hopefully it proves worth the wait I
love uh mine and I know it's been a
journey uh for the the prusa team to get
that out there it's a it's a been a wild
time getting uh getting product launches

(07:15):
and stuff like that done as um I'm sure
we can all kind of relate in some level
so anyway that's exciting I can't wait
to hear what uh what you think of it
when you get it Andy yeah yeah
absolutely I'm looking forward to it uh
very good my win for the week I'm gonna
go with I've been just like on this wild
organization kick and I've used this one
before
um I I uh I've just been breathing some

(07:37):
new life into some uh the rep rack setup
that I've got because I've just invested
heavily and cleaning all of my walls for
various things already and so
um building out like some actual like
usable shelving so you know the rep rack
for those that don't know is just like a
really basic open design that I put out
there that uses uh EMT

(08:00):
um metallic conduit that's just like
ubiquitous it's probably one of like the
cheapest most affordable sturdy little
you know things that you can get here
you know six bucks a stick for a 10 10
foot stick at any home store and I just
love building stuff out of it I'm a
project with EMT going on for the summer
for my wife uh above ground gardening
creating a trellis system of design all

(08:22):
the all the corner brackets and all the
dimensions to be able to use EMT to to
make a trellis for the running the wires
so that the plants you know the tomatoes
isn't it just the coolest stuff now
you're you're gonna bend it or are you
actually gonna do it do some Corner are
you know do some 3D no no the the the
EMT is all just gonna be cut straight
pieces and it's all going to be

(08:43):
assembled with uh
um uh polycarbonate uh or ASA uh printed
corners and T's and triangles and elbows
and ends I can't wait to see that uh I
love that stuff so yeah I was gonna say
if it's out and subject to UV you know
we hear ASA is good for that as
polycarbonate good under UV as well
cool

(09:08):
yeah that sounds like a good project so
anyway I've been on a kick where I'm
just making shelving out of it so the
the the main rep rack design was for
just you know holding spools and stuff
like that but then I've since kind of
developed some modular shelving some
parametric design for that so it's
really easy to just kick out you know if
you've got a CNC or if you've got a
laser cutter and then I'm working on a
printable version so I I like to call

(09:29):
what I share
um uh uh PCL or I haven't decided which
order or whatever but I like I like my
designs to be multi-mode makeable mmm
Triple M
um so so you know whatever tool that you
might have handy I know that you know
it's not necessarily ideal to be just
printing shelving out of you know
plastic but if that's all you got and it

(09:52):
works I know a lot of us just have a ton
of filament and we're just it's it's one
of those you know when everything is a a
hammer a nail I'm getting this right now
everything's a nail everything's a
hammer you know like you got a 3D
printer and you just want to print
everything right I've got no uh no wall
space no you're you're a bookshelf guy
you're well read it would seem I'm

(10:14):
described actually yeah I have to give
credit this is mostly uh my wife's books
uh she's a surgical RN uh and a
homeopathic Healthcare practitioner and
a double Reiki master and so this is all
of her uh all of her medical and other
uh books so that's mostly that's of the
office that's what she has left I've
taken over everything else for those

(10:36):
listening to the podcast later Andy's
coming to us from the Lincoln bedroom in
the White House was a very very chic
background actually and then there's a
bunch of 3D printers in the in the kind
of in some metal racking which I see as
well which is of near and dear to me
also uh tell us in the chat what's your
wins of for the week of men if you
haven't already let me see if has
anybody shared any uh some commentary on

(10:58):
the expensive EMT in Canada we went over
that on Liz's stream on Monday for some
reason in Canada they just EMT is
expensive there I don't know if it's
just not is commonly used or there's
some import
issues with it or if we're just spoiled
here I don't know but uh that's
unfortunate uh but the part of the thing
with the with the designs I did and

(11:19):
we've seen tons of remixes where people
have just used material that's uh more
readily available to them
internationally I know there's been
remixes to use you know other pipe
dimensions stuff from Ikea closet rod
you know whatever is easy which is which
is one of the coolest things about being
a maker and seeing these like
marketplaces that we talked about last
week popping up where people can share

(11:42):
designs and and all that stuff and that
is a perfect segue into what we're going
to talk about today uh because Andy I
know that the hero me uh project is is
based on these uh shareable shareable
designs and uh and all that stuff but
why don't you give us more of the

(12:02):
background you you kind of started at
the top so we know what the basis is but
you know tell people where they can find
it I think you've mentioned to me that
you're on things and on it printables
and you have a patreon
yeah so um yeah the the Hear Me project
uh all of the sdl's
um are are available and online uh for

(12:22):
free uh it's on um printables it's on
thingiverse it's on calls 3D uh it's on
things
um and uh so that's where where you can
go and search and get it the the hero me
uh which is for those who don't know it
is a modular printhead uh system uh and

(12:45):
part cooling uh and so that's
it supports uh Hear Me Now Sports over
115 3D printer models and growing uh I
support over 47 hot ends uh I support 37
different extruders wow over 20
different abl sensors uh

(13:06):
1480 XL 345 accelerometers and Counting
um
yeah yeah for for uh yeah uh for Clipper
um and
uh uh then 35 different print fan
combinations so you know this goes back

(13:28):
to to you know my 70s days where you
know tinkering on cars you know I wanted
to have a um a Holley carburetor and
Edelbrock headers and a Hurst shifter
and you know everybody had their own
particular brand of thing right and uh
you needed to have a way that it would
all you know fit together and work so

(13:50):
um you know what makers are are until
the hero me you know are having to
either if they can design their own uh
if they want to upgrade from something
stock you know that that's basically the
core is all of the the vast majority of
the consumer 3D printers out there part
cooling is an afterthought it's a chat
box oh we have to have it have that

(14:11):
feature there's no in no engineering
design done in these 4010 fans being
slapped on the side yeah the printhead
uh that have to run 100 to try and keep
up uh and for certain print scenarios
you know part cooling is not that
necessary but for a lot of people people
with PLA and PDG uh Park cooling is is
extremely important but besides Park

(14:32):
Cooling
uh you know they want to upgrade and
change so every different printer's got
a different X Carriage got a different
Mount points yeah
um all these different hotends well yes
there are the the e3d collar type Mount
there is the creality two screw type
Mount but there are others the you know
the borons have top mounts so what I've

(14:54):
done um with the uh extending the the
hero me line out is build
um modular uh components it's all based
around this base it's called the base uh
and yep uh Universal base and so you
know on the front you've got the the
heatsink fan

(15:15):
um on the top which we'll get into is
where the modularity comes in on on hot
ends and extruders on the sides you've
got mounts for the part cooling on the
back you've got standard mounts for
connecting up to the interface plate
Gantry adapter to a next Carriage on the
bottom there's mounts for accessories
like an endoscope or hooking up to

(15:36):
accelera you know a mount point for
accelerometers so this design has been
kind of locked in for the last couple
years now in fact that there's now over
600 now going on 700 uh consumer uh or
maker remixes and mods that are out
there
um that you know I'm not involved in so
there's a there's a real community in

(15:57):
people using uh the hero me but it all
comes down to you know what makes it
really good is the part Cooling and so
while I show off dual fan scenarios it
can be a single fan with dual ducts
um but with a single fan coming down

(16:18):
you've got cooling hitting this side
well if I've got a part with an overhang
over here and the cooling is coming from
this side you guys know what happens you
can get you know drooping right so you
you droopies right so that's what this
solves is uh uh getting full uh cooling
there's a lot of mods out there where
there's two ducks and they just come

(16:38):
down and the airflow just points at each
other well that doesn't create effective
cooling because you get a lot of
turbulence there turbulence is not uh
conducive to good part cooling so these
ducks have all been designed uh and
tested through computational fluid
dynamics to prove that it's creating a
laminar airflow and so in fact the issue

(17:02):
here is
the nozzle you see is not in the center
it doesn't look like oh it's not
centered well actually it is because the
airflow
is angled like a y
and when you've got airflow coming like
this it makes it easier to blend and
flow and come out so it's kind of an
upside down Y and the same thing is true

(17:23):
for this side is that you'll see a lot
of cooling ducts where the airflow is
just pointing across at each other no
the airflow is coming down in a y shape
so this creates a really nice laminar
flow blend below the tip of the nozzle
to do really effective part cooling so
that's that's the the core of this is

(17:43):
having proved that this really does uh
great design there's a lot of examples
out there as one on YouTube where you
see uh in fact a Gen 5 we're now at gen
7.4 uh over five years
um that that using a Gen 5 version uh a
guy on Ender 3 did a bridge from Two

(18:05):
Towers uh in the fork in the corners of
the Zender 3 plate so about 240
millimeters uh with no support and no
sagging going back and just building a
bridge
great video of that I'm not sure if it
was the video was it that video at uh
Rocky Mountain rep rap festival and
every you know people saw that in the
mic that's not real it like it it just

(18:26):
looked surreal over that that thing so
it's funny you want you said something
earlier that I just wanted to just touch
on the the the fact that Cooling
on 3D printers in my experience like I
would agree with you like to some extent
that it feels like an afterthought that
that and and I think that that might be

(18:47):
changing as we get a better awareness
and we try to print more at speed now
right because we're seeing how critical
the cooling is to get effectiveness at
at higher speed right like how quickly
that plastic is is is hardening and then
what that's doing to layer inner layer
adhesion strength because if you cool it
too quickly you can lose layer bonding

(19:09):
so one of the things that is interesting
to me
um and I I can only speak anecdotally
just from my experience but I've noticed
that like some cooling duct profiles
seem to do great with some geometries
and others not so much and so it's it's
a hard thing to design for like a
one-size-fits-all solution as I've seen

(19:31):
it what do you think
so the the thing is I can't say that I
was precognizant of what would come but
uh sure
that gee two this this particular
example is uh dual 4020s uh on it I I
personally use dual 50 15s whatever

(19:52):
those of you don't know yeah
yeah and the you know those who first in
and go well gee that's way too much air
well yeah but you don't run it at 100
that's the thing the the airflow uh here
is done like at 30 or 40 volume to get
really efficient Cooling and when you
want to do that bridge like I talked

(20:13):
about the airflow gets dialed up to 55
65 maybe even 70 uh air flow the so with
now wanting to print faster and faster
uh doing the speed benchy test Etc uh
having something like this that can add
that additional airflow can make a huge
huge difference sure

(20:33):
um so so yeah it's it's uh it's become
more relevant uh as more printers go
into a faster faster mode even if you're
not going after speed benching you know
trials uh it's uh it's important to get
the proper cooling out so you know this
whole thing was that um I had Ender

(20:54):
threes I had an Ender five I wanted it
for my printers I wanted to be able to
choose an e3d and V6 back in the day uh
instead of the creality stock uh I
wanted to go to direct drive instead of
instead of Bowdoin and so
you know I started designing this and
and

(21:15):
Rift off of that design that came from
uh
the gentleman in the Dominican Republic
to expand on that to add uh different
printer models so you know it's
this is an example of a Gantry adapter
so every printer you know their X
Carriage is going to be different and so

(21:37):
there's going to be a different Gantry
adapter for the hearing amount to so the
hirami has its standard Mount points and
when you put the Gantry adapter on there
we now interfaced it to that printer
then you know I mentioned e3d there is
uh this is the the mount piece for the

(21:58):
V6 there's you know collar type or V6
style and the way it works is it's like
Lego bricks there's little Pogo pins in
there that sits right in and now the hot
end
and if I want say
um uh a a
creality you know stock I have a mount

(22:19):
for that and that just sits on top so to
do M3 screws describe what people are uh
uh listening back to he's he's got what
I would almost describe and I think
you've done this before India is like a
Lego system almost of of components that
all the various parts of a 3D printer
that uh are part of the like what we
call the what the print head I suppose

(22:41):
the the hot end that melts the you know
the melty bits and the the sensor
packages and lighting now and
accelerometers and and extruder and all
of that so sorry to interrupt so yeah no
so you know here's one for uh Ubuntu lgx
uh the simple one is for an Orbiter um

(23:01):
V2
um this one for uh a BMG so like I said
there's there's a single part instead of
having to redesign and rebuild it from
scratcher find a bespoke one for a given
printer here now you can start with this
basic and you whatever hot end you like
whatever extruder you like whatever uh

(23:22):
uh abl sensor you want Etc
you hear me he's got you covered and if
if you don't I can you know make one for
you uh and so that actually kind of
leads into uh G Andy do you own these
115 printers no I don't uh so how do I
prove that what I've made works well the
the way that is done is through the

(23:45):
community uh in that someone who comes
up with a new printer
um
if the manufacturers provided a step
file of the X Carriage great I can just
model to that oftentimes they don't
exist so I have uh instructions for
someone to go and and disassemble their
their printhead take a photograph of the

(24:06):
X carriage and then do about 30
different calipered uh measurements to
get me the dimensions I then model that
that xcarriage uh and then I'm able to
create the entry adapter uh same thing's
true for the hotends now in the hot ends
and extruder area the manufacturers are
a bit more uh um supportive in that they

(24:28):
often do
supply thedas for example is great every
single different hotend they've got
they've got step files for it uh Bond
Tech with their extruders they've got uh
step files for us so I take those and I
use those to model then the parts needed
to mount that component to the hirami

(24:49):
base and so the this particular example
what we've got down here is a a
fetus dragon with a BMG lgx a pair of 40
20s and then I don't have it on here but
uh a uh out the side would be a a a

(25:11):
abl sensor of either creality or or
um
any any other in in this example while
it's the same extruder here now the uh
it's flipped the other way so I can
handle you know forward facing and
reverse facing but now this particular

(25:31):
hot end is the creality spider 4 was the
ceramic and
so it it's it's very very the the
I made a mistake of actually doing the
calculation a year ago of how many
possible combinations uh and and I call
it a mistake because people kind of got

(25:52):
scared away from that but at that time
uh of 115 different printers 47
different hotends 37 different extruders
etc etc etc it came out to over 35
billion 35 possible combinations
from these 650 uh different stls well

(26:13):
let me let me stop you for a second that
you you've done a fantastic job of just
appealing to that like crack addiction
of the maker of like being able to
Tinker and work and try uh all different
things so you know we talk about a
number of different applications I do a
lot of 3D printing for actual part

(26:34):
production and so like I make it a point
to try not to Tinker even though it's
still hard for me
but I know that I'm not necessarily the
you know typical and I know a lot of
people like the the journey is the uh
adventure and and part of that is just
like you know what I want to try this
new extruder I want to try and this new
thing and it is fantastic to have a

(26:55):
system where you do not have to tear
everything apart to do that if you want
to you know what I'm gonna just upgrade
this piece I print out one new bracket I
bolted onto the system and all that
stuff and I think that's great and and
you're able to build a very robust
Community around this because it doesn't
have to necessarily be a one size fits
all

(27:16):
right now as a and I can I can tell
Andrew's probably thinking the same
thing as a business-minded individual
and stuff like that thinking about
supporting this and all this stuff you
have all the advantages of the modern
era continuous Improvement very rapid
development uh abilities to to release
new things as new new product comes out

(27:38):
which it does every day which is
fantastic but the support around that
the documentation requirements around
that like all of the logistical
components that make that a challenge
how do you how do you handle that how do
you mitigate that so so that's that's
where the business comes in that's
that's the business side of it um for

(27:59):
the first four years
um there was no money that I made I
didn't put any effort into gee how can I
uh reimburse myself for the thousands of
hours you know invested in in designing
this and and so I was answering
uh uh um uh not so much emails then but
comments on on posts on on thingiverse

(28:21):
Etc thousands uh uh in a year uh over
over four years yeah and it got to the
point where you know uh it's become at
that time was the halftime halftime or
more job you know that I was spending uh
above and beyond my day job
um
and so uh I finally uh decided no you

(28:42):
know this is not sustainable I can't
keep doing what I need to do and keep
doing my love of doing 3D printing uh
and make this supportable so I had done
documentation and I had done FAQs uh and
uh there was a very uh compared today a
much simplified version of it that was
available online and I took it offline I

(29:03):
went behind uh patreon paywall uh uh a
year and a half ago I'm coming up uh two
years in January
uh to make it possible for me to
continue to do this and and be able to
afford to you know keep the lights on in
the house because uh you know I had a
company I was working for that merged

(29:23):
and I got uh um merged out oh no and and
so
um you know this became okay you know
I'm gonna turn my hobby into a business
uh and so I I created a patreon account
uh and so all the sdls
are free you can take them you can use

(29:45):
them you don't have to contact me but if
you want support if you want
documentation on how to do this you know
of the 650 and growing Parts you only
need somewhere between 5 and 12 sdls for
any given setup right now the
organization of those sdls uh that are

(30:05):
on on the services where you can get it
printables thingiverse uh um things Etc
are in the zip file and it's organized
in folders and subfolders by component
by brand Etc and the file names are very
well Divine so if you really know your
printer and your components you can
download that zip go through uh find the

(30:27):
files you need print them and set it up
there are thousands of people who've
done that without ever contacting me but
for those who want support uh I've got
uh patreon and now uh um also things uh
membership and uh printables memberships
where for five dollars you get my 56
page uh Parts uh selection and color

(30:50):
Illustrated assembly guide
um that's you get very cool for five
dollars
um and then for ten dollars you get the
documentation plus two videos I have an
orientation video it's a half hour long
and I have an assembly example video
that's a half hour long so those get
included plus you get access to my

(31:11):
Discord server where there is a
community of a couple of thousand uh
like-minded makers out there who um uh
contribute as well as ask questions and
and help the community and I contribute
to then there is a 15 dollar
uh um
tier where Additionally you get uh

(31:33):
access to a private channel on the
Discord where you can get direct support
from me uh within a couple of days
um I'm for those who uh maybe watching
or reading this who are my patrons I
know I'm behind uh I'm playing catch up
here you know it's just me and uh there
are a lot of you and I very much
appreciate all of my patrons but I have

(31:55):
some catching up to do on questions so
I'll put that right out there
um and then uh I have a 30 tier
um where all those same things you get
plus you get a um a monthly hour-long
um video chat like this where you can
ask me questions we can talk about it I
can walk through it Etc so
um yeah I did that like I said in

(32:17):
January
um a year and a half ago and it's taken
off uh way better than I expected
um and it's uh allowing to keep the
lights on it's it's uh not a uh a
profitable business yet but it's working
that direction and uh you know this year

(32:37):
uh I start I added uh um Rocky Mountain
Festival I went to I went to murf in the
midwest
um unfortunately I got invited uh
accepted but couldn't go to open source
and irf I got accepted but there's
another reason I'm not gonna be able to
go to that one so I need to find someone
to sponsor me you're out there you know

(33:01):
that seems to be the common lament right
it's like there's just more events than
there are money and time and yeah so
it's
it's uh yeah am I making am I making
money off it yes
um is it open source no it's not open
source it's it's Creative Commons you
know you know you can take these and you
can make your own mods uh uh to them you

(33:23):
know and and use them but my knowledge
my support my documentation my videos
those are something that I you know uh
um uh put value on and uh if you want
that support you want that information
that's where you can support me by
becoming a member for one month uh and
or or several months it's a really
clever way to to kind of go about

(33:45):
building a business uh you know is is
you have this intellectual property that
you've been building and while releasing
the digital files and assets for people
to build their own and create you know
like that's that's awesome for like the
community piece but then sharing that
knowledge you know there's there's value
there and I think you're recognizing

(34:05):
that and so I I think that there's going
to be more of these businesses start up
over time uh because it's a really
interesting model I find this I find
this model fascinating and I think you
know again dabbling with it as well
because I you know I've got a printables
club I'm not everywhere you know uh like
a lot of people are with you know being

(34:25):
on all these other platforms because it
seems administratively like it could be
a challenge to manage all of that as a
as you add more of them
um and that's one of the things that I
look at as a business owner a lot of
times is like how well does this scale
so so when you talk about your personal
time absolutely very valuable probably

(34:46):
the most valuable thing we have and and
Andrew likes to point out a lot like as
makers we don't typically value that
component nearly as much as we can so I
love hearing Andy say this is this is
where the value is I think it's very
clear to people that if you draw a line
in the sand here's what you get for free
here's what you get for paid support it
should be it should be and and I

(35:08):
understand that people's consumer
expectations very wildly
across the board right everybody's just
like I should get this for free
entitlement abounds especially in our
culture uh uh in in the states here but
um talk to me for a little bit Andy if
you would about scalability you know
because the more patrons you have the

(35:29):
more people that need your time your
time is finite you know yeah that is
what is that what happened so that's
yeah that's that is that is the exact
Big Challenge in Crux there there is
this
Flex point where
it's way more work for one person but
not yet enough uh income to make it

(35:52):
where I can hire somebody so you know uh
a lot of YouTube you know Joel you know
everybody knows Joel 3D printing nerd uh
he started off just doing something in
his basement because he loved it and
doing it I started watching him probably
in the first month or two after he got
online and you know he grew it and grew
it and grew it uh and there's a point
where it was overwhelming for him it got

(36:13):
to a point where he could afford to
leave his day job uh um but there's this
inflection point where you can't do it
alone and now he's got a team I don't
know how big his team is but I know he's
got at least a couple of people that uh
are helping him uh build his business
out in his brand recognition Etc so yeah
that is my challenge is how to get over
that inflection point where to make it

(36:36):
sustainable to make it so that uh I can
continue to grow uh what it is that
Merlin media which is uh the business
end of this uh where uh hiromi uh falls
under there are other things my my 3D
printing Farm Etc falls under Merlin
media
um I have a Consulting business on the
the web develop side that falls under my

(36:57):
soderber Consulting
yeah like a true entrepreneur who's got
like 10 gigs going at the same time yeah
you have to have you get multiple gigs
but then there's side hustles
[Music]
so but that's that's something
somebody's thinking about doing this
um I don't know that I couldn't could
have done this if I didn't have the

(37:20):
background that I've had uh in in my own
business experience having been uh um uh
uh in product development and product
marketing I worked for Atari in the 80s
I was a product manager for the 600 and
800 XL home computers I work for Apple
Internet yeah I worked for Apple in the
90s I was the first QuickTime uh

(37:42):
evangelist for Hardware that makes what
we see here uh possible
um and doing digital video uh and
interacting with with hundreds of of
hardware and software companies to adopt
uh QuickTime uh
um and then you know I had my own
business for 15 years uh when I left
Apple to to do

(38:04):
um web development and also
um about that time that when the
2000.com bus happened
I survived that in web development
because I transitioned into working with
colleges in redesigning websites and
they have a need for web accessibility
that's a big thing you know everybody's
website should be accessible for all

(38:25):
people everyone who's got differently uh
able access and so over the last 20 plus
years I've become web accessibility
expert and so I consult in that Arena so
yeah I've got I've got a number of irons
in the fire but the last uh 20 years uh
I've been an exec uh in uh doing Global

(38:47):
Tech Support customer service building
customer success teams customer support
teams and operational teams uh so that
we can properly support the the services
those companies provide so I've I've
absolutely understand what it is to
build teams to manage teams and to build
infrastructure so with with hirami

(39:08):
um I've got now you know an ongoing
building out of whatever new question
comes in that I haven't answered before
that gets added to the FAQ
um ideas and requests come in they
haven't been covered it gets added to my
uh documentation that's available
through patreon
um and uh

(39:30):
the and then to continue on you know I
to on the marketing side to get the word
out there I I've branded it you know um
we've got the superhero
um and you know the slogan that you know
when it comes to cooling everybody
deserves a hero right yeah so everything
from you know hirami coffee mugs with

(39:51):
with the with the slogan
um to what was a big hit at Irfan and
and uh how would you pronounce it uh
Rocky Mountain one yeah
every everybody in 3D printing needs
cable ties right I love this guys so
he's holding up some swag here

(40:12):
they're velcro based it's logo yeah yeah
so so I got these on AliExpress I had
sent them the artwork and it was real
inexpensive uh and so I give these away
uh um that has the logo and and the
slogan on it uh and it's it's a real hit
so
um if you're listening back uh this is
this is just all the rage of the stage

(40:34):
because we all have way too many cables
to deal with so they're just this little
reusable cable tie velcro things that
he's had branded and I think it's a
really great idea for marketing swag and
he's got some stickers here too yeah
yeah and so you know everybody kids love
stickers and and even as 3D makers you
know have our uh either a wall or a
suitcase or something covered you know

(40:55):
with all the stickers you get stickers
right or or you get the Ducks from from
uh uh big tree Tech I've got 13 ducks
in a row huh so uh uh and then and then
um the uh on the front here uh one of
the the shrouds for the park cooling fan

(41:19):
is the hirami superhero uh logo
um and then you know everybody make the
coins your branding game is strong yeah
look at this yeah I've got uh um a maker
coin so there's the superhero guy and
then on the flip side you know uh when
it comes to schooling everybody deserves
a hero and then on the end oh look at
this

(41:39):
wow yeah the edge you know it's it's got
my my patreon and my website is that
printed in is that a multi-color print
that you just cranked on you probably on
your bamboos yeah yeah so yeah crank
these out uh on on bamboo and and and
they're great so I've got a slew though

(41:59):
so yeah it's it's it's the marketing
side it's the promotion side it's uh you
know continuing to uh it's a continuous
Improvement and modifications
um you know and and yeah it's now
generation seven release four uh I do a
release every few months uh in about

(42:20):
every year and a half uh get a new
generation I'm always working on new
things there's
um coming you know I I did a tease at
the shows it was probably was a little
uh uh uh premature at the time but
there's going to be uh hirami Pro which
will be a hit form where uh we'll sell
prepare printed kits for those who don't

(42:41):
want to print it and do it themselves
they would be able to go in and from an
order form I have I have this printer
model I have this hot end I have this
extruder or not Bowden I have these fans
I have this abl sensor Etc and from that
we will get the the items that need to
be bundled up in a kit and sent off so

(43:02):
it's bespoke to their exact printer
setup so I got it
go ahead Andrew yeah yeah I mean you're
you're kind of now moving towards the
traditional you know manufacturing and
you know product productization uh you
know of your of your designs but uh you
know leveraging additive manufacturing

(43:23):
and licensed okay licensing
so will I start it off sure do I want to
be in the manufacturing business not
really
um yeah yeah I I do uh like I said uh
you know my win uh mentioned I've got a
um a couple of uh clients that I do uh

(43:43):
do additive manufacturing for
um uh for custom things uh um and this
one new client that I can't talk about
that has got a great great idea and a
great product and something that's been
around for hundreds of years but this
new take on it is like once you get it

(44:03):
in your hands you go
why didn't someone think about this way
back when because it's just so obvious
once it's in your hands
um so I'm really really excited uh to be
working with this client uh on this new
product that's that's going to be very
easily
um uh 3D print manufacturable uh and you

(44:25):
know it you know in in the 3D printing
space and Manufacturing it's all about
shipping right that's where the the real
headaches are you know put you you know
you you got to ship your stuff all over
Andrew you know you gotta oh especially
you've got real challenges I love 3D
gloop guys 3D bloop is the bomb yeah
um I use it all the time

(44:46):
um
and so uh the the idea with licensing is
is to get it that closer to the last
mile maybe the last state you know to
get it printed somewhere and so that the
shipping can be really low cost and
really quick so that's the model I'm
working on there is to try and take this
uh for hear me Pro uh in a licensed

(45:09):
scenario uh where I I find uh a couple
uh partners
spread around the country and also
spread around the world I've been
talking to some people in Germany and
Italy who you know maybe uh taking over
the Europe side
um and yeah they you know
they license for me for each kit

(45:29):
whatever Parts number it is will be a a
flat license fee uh and uh they can sell
it you know uh for for whatever you know
if you if you look online you know voron
kits right ldo sells Boron kits a lot of
people sell Boron kits if if you want to
get just the pre-printed parts in Europe
for a a printhead assembly uh an an Eva

(45:51):
3 or something you can be spending 100
120 or more Euros on just as printer
Parts sure right so um you know there's
a there's a market there for this uh and
I think a hiramine bespoke system for
for each person being able to get
customized to the thing for 70 or 80 you
know I think that's that's a steal in my

(46:12):
in my research at Murph and at Rocky
Mountain I found that uh there was wide
Acceptance in fact people who would
otherwise print themselves they say you
know what I'd buy the kit and I print it
then for my other for my other printers
right so there is
um been a strong strong interest and and
so that's a way I'm going so yeah it's

(46:34):
for me from the business side talking
about the MTM uh maker that money it's
it's multi Avenues multi-layered uh
multi-segmented to find a way to
leverage your makercraft
um into something that is sustainable uh
even if it's a single operator right so

(46:55):
lots of nuggets in here that just are
like you know setting off uh all my
Tangles
um my my poochy senses
um license to manufacture deals and
stuff like this is a really fascinating
subject to me because uh I've tried to
crack this nut personally uh with repbox

(47:17):
and with some other stuff and
um while in the in the theoretical realm
and you know writing it out on paper and
doing the plan and stuff like that it
makes a lot of sense yeah
in practice you know the the it's not
it's certainly not easy now I think a
lot of this is going to depend on what
the product is and what what level of

(47:37):
complexity there's but obviously the the
compromises that you make when you hand
off manufacturing are making sure that
the quality is to standard you're
basically having to support the
manufacturer so this is almost like
something of a franchise model where you
have to provide a lot of the details
around what uh the quality assurances

(47:59):
are going to be what the packaging needs
to be and then of course regionally
just annoying little details like this
like the the packaging that we use here
in the states is not ubiquitous in
Europe and so we have to come up with
either substitutions or do different
packaging and so what's sexy in this day
and age the idea of distributed

(48:21):
manufacturing and that we want to get
that last mile bit in and and you know
take a lot of that cost of like
freighting things all over the place out
of the equation
um but you really have to there's a lot
of people in the maker world that that
talk a good game they're like oh yeah
yeah I can I can do that and they gloss
over all the things that are actually

(48:42):
the the important details like the make
like yes you may have a 3D printer and
you can run these parts you know
non-stop but that's actually like the
easiest part of the whole thing
um and so I will be very curious to hear
how that goes for you I know that what
you have uh you have a process of adding

(49:03):
threaded inserts to a lot of these
things so that adds manual labor process
and creating standards for like get good
part adhesion and you know it's it's
easy but try doing a hundred a thousand
of them consistently to the same depth
every time and so you have to advise on
making proper Jigs and all sorts of
other you know things that the the

(49:24):
average person doesn't have to do
right right um now
one more thing and then I'll let you go
on this because there's just so much
great stuff to talk about here
um we talk about taking you you started
in an interesting spot where it's like
we have uh it's not an open model but we
have a make your own you know a kit uh

(49:45):
uh an instruction build of sorts and
we've seen people do that all the time
um and and you're starting to realize
okay now we can start doing pre-made
ones and we look at the size of the
market and when you think about the
amount of people out there that think
that they want to print their own but
then ultimately go you know what I'd
rather pay the 80 bucks or the 100 bucks
or whatever the price ends up being

(50:06):
there are arguably far more people out
there that probably just want to buy it
than there are make their own but when
you're getting when you're making a name
for yourself you're building Community
all of those things like I like the
pattern that you're building on top of
because you're proving out that there is
interest that there is a market and now
you're layering the next thing on which

(50:27):
is a big thing by the way going to
manufacturer
um and especially if you're gonna do it
yourself if you're gonna license it
there's a lot of other things in that uh
so I commend you for that I I'm curious
to know
you know what you're optimistic about
what you're pessimistic about uh what
the size of the market you think may be

(50:48):
in terms of the thing and I love your
notion that people want to buy one
because I'm in the same thing I'll buy
one because it's easy to get an
understanding of what I need and that's
the best way to understand it and then I
can make more myself so it's great that
you have that one-two punch that
availability
so the um there's I I'm big on analytics
very very big on analytics uh I do

(51:10):
that's I I actually
um uh I'm not a mathematician but you
know using uh the tools that are there
online now uh uh doing uh modeling of
charting out
um downloads and uh um uh you know
people using and visits to the website
and tracking The Funnel of people have

(51:32):
an interest
to visiting a website to go oh gee I'll
I'll look at the product uh on
printables I'll download it to I'll
actually print it install it to those
who then I'll support it so it's it's
this for me I'm finding that it's this
um typically a 10 10 right

(51:52):
um and so it's just any more more
eyeballs so in the case of over the last
uh five years now and actually this week
is the five-year anniversary of of um
when uh uh he stopped and I started uh
on on on doing things with with the
hiromi okay
um
that there have been over a million uh

(52:15):
uh downloads of the various permutations
over here I mean in five years
um there have been
um uh
uh tens of thousands to I would think
over a hundred thousand that uh actually
end up getting made there are thousands
and thousands who over the years have
have

(52:35):
um post questions and posted you know uh
images or videos or or uh pictures on
Facebook and everywhere
um uh of having implemented it
um and of those who go to say a
thingiverse or printables uh and
actually download it

(52:57):
um I get about 10 of them go to and look
at patreon my you know my memberships
now on printables that can look locally
um and then of those uh who visit
patreon
um when I was first taking off when I
first started offering this I actually
got contacted by marketing at patreon I

(53:21):
wanted to interview me about what I was
doing because they spotted something
before I did uh where they knew
something I didn't know the typical
YouTuber who is fairly well known uh who
does YouTube videos who has a patron
um the statistics from patreon is
roughly for every 100 people that visit

(53:42):
their patreon page three or four will
sign up well that's one or two percent
above spam right when
my first four or five months uh for
every 100 people that visited my patreon
page
for excuse me for every for every 10
people who visited

(54:04):
uh two and a half or three would sign up
so about 25 to 30 closure of people
signing up uh well that's yeah it was it
was blew me away
um and the my numbers now uh uh um you
know almost two years later is that for
every hundred uh people who see who
visit my patreon page for the first time

(54:25):
10 to 12 will sign up so it's that you
know 10 model
um so that's the thing is is getting the
awareness you know it's the marketing
I'm doing this this interview with you
guys I did one with zombie Hedgehog on
znz two weeks ago I uh you know there's
a there's a number of them out there
um there have been reviews there hear me

(54:46):
uh I'm uh members of I'm a member of
many many Facebook groups uh that are
different You Know cover different
brands of printers to get the word out
there uh so it's it's it's a lot of
marketing but getting that that funnel
in of people to look at it who are
interested uh so that as you said uh

(55:06):
Alan if if you know if people want to
Tinker it maybe print themselves but the
market for those who would probably buy
one either from sales before they print
it is even larger well if the market
size of what it is that I've scoped it
for those who are interested in printing
it themselves then I'm very much looking
forward to what the my license model
could be uh and yeah you're absolutely

(55:28):
right at pointing out the the new
challenges uh of uh uh quality control
of supporting those who I license to uh
Etc so but but those are things that
that in you know my past lives uh I've
done and and you know I'm skilled at so
I uh

(55:49):
yeah I'm I'm excited uh for for where
this goes but um and by no means to be
clear do I say any of that to be
discouraging I just we love no knocking
about these whole things obviously
drawing a wealth of experience and stuff
like that and I know that these are
things you're well aware of I'm not
telling I'm not saying this to tell you
anything I think just to have no
discussion around this is interesting

(56:10):
um fantastic man this is great and so
you know we we've we've covered a lot of
territory and gotten into some
interesting things like maybe to wrap up
you know give us a little bit of of
things that maybe you're excited for you
know new versions to come uh talk about
you know what the future might hold here

(56:31):
okay
um so in the hero me World
um there is uh for my patrons
um there's a version specific for them
who who are at the
um
ten dollar no 15 level uh and above uh
get access to this the step files that

(56:53):
we're making I said by the way always uh
uh for those who are in the know out
there you may already know but those who
aren't uh all the design work of all
these 650 odd Parts
um has been done in tinkercast
[Music]
uh we love tinkercad uh yeah very
capable free CAD package uh I started in

(57:15):
it as well and and that's great
to move to move on to something like
Fusion 360 or or shaper or sculpt or
whatever you gotta you gotta completely
unlearn and relearn so I'm in the
relearning process for those to be able
to do because tinkercad doesn't do step
files
um no it doesn't but the the uh

(57:37):
or can import at least I don't know if
it can export go go ahead sorry it can
it can import the message but then you
still gotta you gotta rebuild yeah yeah
um the the uh
for for patrons they get access to a
magnetic version of the hirami uh so
that to disassemble to get at the stuff

(57:58):
from behind uh the whole piece comes off
it's keyed so it's locked in so yes it
can survive a a a a crash
well Craftsman also survive the the
accelerometer testing that gets done
yeah right no right
um but it so it's keyed locked in and

(58:19):
and but you know pull one uh lock part
out and the whole piece can can come off
without having to get in the back and
that's why disassembled and screw it
there's also the pro version uh is a
front mount so where uh hear me gen 7
you know for your X Carriage it mounts
uh the
it all mounts to this Gantry adapter

(58:40):
from the back and then the Gantry
adapter gets mounted to your X Carriage
um with the hear me Pro it's front
mounted so four screws and the whole
assembly comes off so there are uh
additional new improvements being done
um
very cool yeah so I'm excited for the
future yeah there's lots of room for
growth and again more new printers uh uh

(59:02):
hot ends as they come out the the what
we haven't talked about is uh uh um
obsolescence uh you know bamboo is a
good example right uh it's it's so I got
several bamboos here behind me uh love
the printers it's closed Source
um but uh it's not a problem for me uh

(59:22):
these things just work for me uh they're
my go-to I've got Enders I've got uh uh
uh Ender fives I got Ender threes I've
got prusas I had seven I sold four of
them to be able to buy uh more more uh
uh bamboo p1ps
um but you know and the maintenance
parts for these are really expensive but

(59:43):
this is a you know the printhead there
isn't a hero me for a bamboo there are
going to be more bamboo like printers
going forward so you know uh I think
there will always be a market for uh um
maker tinkerable uh 3D printers but as
this gets to me more of a consumer thing
you know it's it's the Macintosh moment

(01:00:04):
1984. big switch where you could take
that thing out of the box and be up and
running in five minutes bamboo out of
the box in 15 minutes and you're
printing
um so yeah it's it's uh I'm you know
very cognizant of that of uh you know
how big and how much of a market can I
scoop as things move

(01:00:25):
you know towards towards this so it's
Brent yeah so it's branching out and and
looking at other things that are going
on um the one uh uh approach that that
you and I shared that you were a nice uh
beta tester for but unfortunately got
hit with uh a a great advancement from

(01:00:45):
e3d online with their Revo yeah uh had
that not happen so what I've got here is
uh a Mark III S uh plus and what I'm
going to talk about could easily be done
with the mark IV uh but this
is
yeah that is removing you know moving

(01:01:06):
the print head uh with the the product
by Wham Bam called the mutant uh that
just is a one lever pop and allows you
to take off and swap out your your print
head
uh rapidly so this is a cool design the
thing the thing with prusa is
um two things one is they've got a well

(01:01:27):
designed but very hard to maintain
should there be issues that printhead
assembly if you need to replace the hot
end you need to deal with a clog or
whatever
and and this is a printer that's in a
production environment right it goes on
your bench for two days or more and the
machine's out so you either have a yeah
right you either have a three weeks just

(01:01:48):
sitting there that you run in but that
printer's out of business until that's
dealt with right so with the mutant if
you've got this uh uh uh spare uh print
end module yep Ready to plug on you know
here's one with the mutant uh uh uh um
uh faceplate yep that just that one goes
bad I just put put another one on and

(01:02:09):
I'm back in business in 15 seconds
um serviceability is huge in business
obviously and we don't there's a
personal thing like that's not something
that most people care about but it's a
great Advantage you bring up yes
so the the so the the one of the
disadvantages with prusa is that uh uh
it's really hard to maintain so this is
an idea to solve that problem another

(01:02:30):
thing though is prusa is that makes it
really manageable for them to sell kit
yes they've got these built-in tests
process software knows where that nozzle
and and uh uh abl sensor are at any
given time right it's got these
calibration tests if you don't pass you
don't print right and so what I did to
make it because uh for those who are are

(01:02:53):
not seeing it this is a much wider in
fact 30 millimeters wider printhead
assembly than what Chris's is right well
you go gee if I go and home that X
that's no longer where the home is from
what prusa did that's right well if you
look close if you can see it I've
re-engineered reverse engineered the
geometry and created uh Mount points to

(01:03:16):
widen the x-axis to lengthen the z-axis
uh and such that no build volume is lost
it passes everything every single
calibration test so it's just a matter
of yeah there's some new parts to print
but you can turn a prusa into a prism
mutant so you can have this real face

(01:03:36):
ability and I saw a big Market in print
farms for it and Pooch was very very
interested and willing and so I modified
one of his printers for him uh and he
put it in his production environment and
then still have it with their yeah
they they came up with the revo and the

(01:03:56):
most common thing is swapping nozzles
right that was the vast majority of what
was most appealing to me was the rapid
nozzle swap now what you bring up is a
is an interesting point now I'm thinking
about in terms of machine failure you're
absolutely right I would say eighty
percent of the the failure problems
could probably be attributed to
something going on with the print head
assembly so the extruder the the hot end

(01:04:19):
uh you know the the PIN the sensor and
all that stuff uh so there is value in
being able to rapidly you know I'll
diagnose that part on the bench later
Swap this thing in cost of that there's
a lot of other factors that key and so
yeah the overhead though is is that you
I know you thought about and we talked

(01:04:40):
about is that with something like this
is you've you've got a lot of time and
energy needing to if you've got already
a print Farm to rework it to you know
recreate and reassemble and kit those to
take advantage of say a wham bam uh uh
modular system uh and but if you're if

(01:05:01):
you're building it up from scratch you
know you're buying these uh prusa or
prusa clones
um and you're building in the first
place well if you build them with this
uh Parts instead right up front you know
you you're really not wasted any any
time but yeah refitting an existing
print Farm is a lot of Labor and a lot
of time well not just that you're now

(01:05:21):
you're off the reservation so you did a
good job to design to try to stay within
the bounds as best as possible with no
firmware changes firmware changes and
stuff like that and there was some as I
recall there was some little things
about like maybe a calibration wouldn't
work or something like that but that
wasn't the the biggest
deal although I am finding now even with
the revo setup with the latest firmware

(01:05:44):
as they're you know releasing Advanced
thermal um models and stuff like that
that and now I have to have a forked
um firmware to support Revo and and the
appeal of that is becoming less now that
said we're already looking at Mark IV in
the future and and analyzing this right

(01:06:05):
do we still can we still milk you know
this a little bit further or do we need
platform changes you know I don't know a
lot of that stuff is still to be
determined I think there's still plenty
of great life and the Mark III ecosystem
is going to live on for quite some time
and part of the benefit of that prusa
ecosystem is that they will continue to

(01:06:26):
support it for quite some time they
still release updates to Mark II and all
that stuff so if you're in the market
for some a Workhorse capable stuff
actually there's never been a better
time than now uh to probably find used
Mark threes you
Marketplace there's some good value in
that yeah
um yeah but let me let's take two

(01:06:47):
questions if we could really quick from
the chat for you Andy and then maybe
we'll close up there with a little ask
uh ask Andy some questions so first one
comes from vast CNC uh he's curious to
know what your churn this is a great
question and I it might be a little
personal but if you're happy with
sharing what's your turn for memberships
what do you think the primary challenge

(01:07:07):
is to that membership model so how when
he says churn how often are people
subscribing and unsubscribing
yeah so so
um they hear me is you know the hero me
if you think about it it is a weekend to
maybe one month long project it's a
slice in time in your life of a 3D

(01:07:27):
printer right true you want to upgrade
it and add it you know uh you come to me
and and you could subscribe for one
month uh because you got what you needed
and and you go on
um in the first year and a half with
with
um
with patreon because they only have a
membership model
um 30 of those who joined basically

(01:07:50):
joined and canceled they get 30 days but
they join and cancel because all they
wanted was the documentation sure all
right uh and so there's this you know
churn well again big on research and big
on analytics
um
those are really not churn those are
buyers they've bought a product right
they bought a document uh and so uh uh

(01:08:13):
my churn uh and it the thing is it's
still
the average life of a subscriber is
still growing for me so that's the good
news
um out of uh 20 odd months uh of data
I'm at um an average subscriber is is
nine months oh wow I love how analytics

(01:08:33):
you are man this is great and good info
so my my churn is really when it comes
to churn is 10 to 12
um and now that's now that's average or
do you think the I have no concept I I I
don't really know how it is compared to
uh you know if something's big into a
podcast they're gonna subscribe and they

(01:08:54):
like that topic I got a friend who does
an airline podcast and they you know
they're in it for for years because
that's their that's their hobby
um the hero me is is you know just
the slice in time and so one of the
things that I'm going to be doing is
um expanding on that set of services in
that you know I've got a lot of

(01:09:15):
knowledge of uh you know kit printers uh
and so I'm gonna be uh expanding what uh
my uh Patron services and information
are to things that extend
you know more window of time of
someone's involvement because there's a
reprint or from buying and configuring
and setting up to tuning and using yeah

(01:09:36):
there are a lot of people who do
YouTubes on that but having a single
place with a community people who share
uh and and have a like-minded use uh I
think I've got a window there to kind of
to grow that hero me uh Beyond I've got
uh I've got a a track record there
um so yeah uh now that patreon has sales

(01:09:57):
ability those folks who subscribed and
canceled now simply buy they go and to
the shop and they buy the docs and they
buy the videos
um and uh
so yeah it's it's
um it's been very interesting tracking
that and and following it and
um I absolutely monitor uh my my track

(01:10:17):
summer months uh it's it's you know
things drop off in the summer months
because they're going outside they're
spending time with their kids whatever
that's right uh it's you guys I watch
you guys uh your your uh podcast two or
three weeks ago where you talked exactly
about this what's what's it like uh uh
for the year where's the business uh and
yeah it's it's fall winter and spring

(01:10:37):
for me where where my growth is things
slow down in the summer uh and uh uh my
total numbers will taper off but then
they you know pick back up and again
I've got two seasons two two year cycle
Seasons to have shown this so things may
change
um but yeah it's it's um let me stay on

(01:10:58):
that for just a sec 25 yeah that's a
that's a really interesting thing that I
think a lot of people Miss uh well maybe
don't miss but don't think about
necessarily as like the experience of
seeing your business through a couple
Seasons so that you can take those
analytics and understand and strategize
is so valuable but you know until you
until you've done that it's it's it's

(01:11:19):
hard to say but excellent point
um let me go ahead more go ahead no I
was just going to follow up as saying is
is the the direct correlation on on my
stuff is the more active I am in
Facebook groups and other social media
Avenues Twitter Etc the more people and
more traffic I get in the door so that's

(01:11:40):
really where my challenge is
um is being able to stay on top of an
active and that's where again that
earlier we talked about the inflection
point of where's your time your valuable
time where I'm you know gee could I have
an assistant that I could you know give
the FAQs and go and listen to and look
for uh hear me related posts Etc uh and

(01:12:02):
respond to that's the Gap I need to fill
is is that I've been really uh lucky
in that there's a group uh on uh uh
Facebook called I love the 3D print uh
put together uh by a gentleman named
Robert I forgot how to pronounce his
last name
um he's in Texas he's a bookkeeper by
day but he's starting a print farm with

(01:12:24):
Enders and his 30 or 40 Ender fives and
their five pros and pluses every single
one of them are hero me he posts three
more times a day videos and stills of
his finished print and in that photo in
the background is the hiromi printhead
so I've got a a great you know uh uh uh
example of of a print Farm where hiromi

(01:12:46):
is is the go-to uh and there's a lot of
yeah so go ahead you had another
question uh yeah so more from the chat
uh and we got a couple more coming in
um one from Mitch our dear friend Mitch
3D uh he he asked this at Murph but uh
have you played or do you have any plans

(01:13:06):
for Delta printer effector designs for
this this
um I've talked to to at those shows I
talked to Delta owners
um and the challenges there I I have in
the past owned uh one Delta uh it was a
Kickstarter uh the uh um
uh failed Kickstarter although I did get

(01:13:28):
one from it and and the tico oh man yeah
yeah yeah
so uh and and this is an anecdote my
very what got me into 3D printing was a
Kickstarter it was the uh print m3d the
little four inch by four inch by four
inch yeah
um printer 300 bucks in fact I still
have it up on the Shelf uh that's what

(01:13:48):
got me in and then Tico was the second
one and I spent a lot of time with that
and that of course is not you know uh it
didn't survive Etc but
Deltas are are much more robust and
complicated uh than that but the space
constraint it's a big deal in space
constraint yeah the other thing I get
requested all the time is well what

(01:14:10):
about the Hamera what about the Sprite
what about the biq H2 that's all of
these new integrated extruder hotend
combos yeah well they're much physically
bigger than what will fit into you know
a hero meet and so no there are no hero
memes for those integrated units but I

(01:14:31):
am working on
um uh
yeah bespoke for each model uh hiromi
inspired part cooling ducts that would
also have an abl Mount uh and an adxl
345 Mount uh interesting so that they
can get hero me quality part cooling
um because that's you know a big lament

(01:14:53):
for those people who bought that is
there's not really great part cooling
out there available for those integrated
uh um extruder hot-end combos you know
it's so fascinating to hear this because
there's parts of this that just are
really appealing to me when I hear them
I'm like oh I get to you get to play
with all these different like you get to
spend this time doing design and all

(01:15:13):
this stuff but then like the business
side of me goes that's terrible you're
constantly going through these
um opportunity cost evaluations uh where
the general public doesn't care that uh
they don't accept as an answer a lot of
the time you're like I'm not gonna do
that because like the size of the amount

(01:15:34):
of people that you have Delta printer no
offense Mitch I love Deltas I have a
Delta that's been non-functional for
like two years now but um uh when it
comes down to like the business decision
side of things you have to go where the
the you know the biggest opportunities
lie and if you start tailing off into

(01:15:55):
these other cases
but then the compound is hear me
wouldn't be what it is I know if it
weren't for me going over and so and
supporting these edge cases yeah it's
the collective now there are you know
many many uh uh dozens uh of the 115
printers supported so far that are Niche
printers but they're from a manufacturer

(01:16:17):
that has a family Etc and you know the
there's a big following for uh the any
cubics there's a big following for the
elegant Neptunes there's a big following
obviously for the crealities you know
out there and
um I'm evaluating every one of us that's
the thing is where I get the most fun is
I love doing the design work I love

(01:16:38):
doing the prototypings like that's sync
yeah I I I I just you know look up and
go eight hours went by oh my God I'm
like where did it go yeah yeah yeah um
but but yeah it's it's
um it's finding and making those
decisions about if it's only this one
thing and and you don't have this
ecosystem around it yeah it may not be

(01:16:59):
the right business decision but adding
that one additional uh um level of you
know so anyone else going oh wow
people come in and they they're just
confused go oh it's way too complicated
and I I'm working on on that
um but others going wow this has got
support this has got a lot of effort

(01:17:19):
into it it's got a lot of design into it
yeah uh um he's got my model oh I've
seen in the notes that that
um people made requests and he'll make
you know one for them
um it's it's the interaction with the
community that has helped make uh my uh
uh generations of the hiromi uh modular
printhead system successful absolutely

(01:17:41):
it's been been from that interaction and
feedback and requests absolutely uh and
and I I hope that you're able to
continue to do so but you're only going
to have more and more and more and more
of this and like I said because your
time is finite you know the coming up
with the calculus of where the best
opportunities lie and then the internal

(01:18:01):
struggles that you're gonna find with
yourself where the things that you're
actually excited to do are not always
the the right business decisions to make
so so balancing again we're back to that
inflection point you know is it is it
big enough profitable enough where I can
bring on resources and other people
part-time at least or whatever to allow
me to continue to focus on on what I do

(01:18:24):
best
um uh and versus putting in you know 60
80 hour weeks Pooch I I don't have to
even know but I know you're putting in
100 hours every week uh whether you're
directly in your business or you're at
home you are always going as a small
business person uh got you know this is
what you're invested in uh it's all you

(01:18:44):
think about really you know you spend as
much time with your family and your kids
and your and your dogs or cats uh but
but
until you can get to that
you're never going to sit back and go ah
but that you get to a level where okay
it's an oiled machine it's running you
know
I know where I need to focus on to keep

(01:19:06):
that ball going uphill and getting
better right versus the the the
underlying uh um mechanics of it yeah
well and to finish up my thought it was
I was gonna say it's not necessarily a
bad thing that like I'll I'll make the
decision that's not the right business
decision a lot of the time because a lot
of those things are what keep me sane
too so there is value in in allowing

(01:19:28):
yourself the joy of what it is that we
why we love doing it and so don't always
go one way or another that that balance
is going to vary wildly from person to
person depending on where they are but
yeah your cr-30 is one of those right
yeah exactly I still have it because
it's near and dear to me but it's not
necessarily a great you know choice

(01:19:50):
um one more question and we're going to
close on this uh and it's a good one
from Mike it never let the machines win
did the rep rap festivals uh affect your
memberships do you find a spike in
membership when you put in the personal
time at the event yes absolutely yeah
the my
um my goals
um for going to those because this is my
first year doing it

(01:20:11):
um absolutely I wanted to be able to
have face-to-face discussions with
people interested and and share what I
have and and and but find out what their
needs are uh to the local community who
come and attend but
um also my other goals were uh meeting
the vendors and meeting the the
influencers and the show was exceedingly

(01:20:33):
exceptional uh successful for me on
those on for both on those both those
fronts
um but yes the the uh um showing off the
system having a printer are working and
printing with it answering questions uh
there absolutely were long lasting
spikes Spike but then long lasting I
think accelerated growth again it's the

(01:20:54):
more whether whether it be Facebook
whether it be uh uh Murph uh whether it
be Twitter whatever social media channel
the more I can get out there and show
and talk about and share the the more uh
folks come back but absolutely it helped
the uh my patreon community grow was
attending those and I really lament not

(01:21:16):
being able to to go to Earth uh it's the
granddaddy of them
um but uh other things preclude me but
yes
absolutely yeah it you know and again I
went unsupported no no uh uh uh
um uh sponsor it was on my own nickel uh

(01:21:37):
invested my my time to to grow my
business and and it was absolutely worth
every minute well see now that's that's
I'm really glad to hear you come that
conclusion because I've said multiple
times that that these events are so
critical in terms of building reputation
legitimacy all that stuff so in my
opinion yeah I know it sucks when you're
getting started too because it's not

(01:21:57):
cheap to travel but that is that is so
that is money well spent that's uh
investing in your yourself your brand
um and Andrew he probably gets sick of
hearing me say it but it's like you
don't have a sales problem you have an
awareness problem for the first couple
years and so whatever you can do to get
out in front of people to have people
experience it and then ultimately want

(01:22:19):
to advocate for you one of the things I
don't do well I know how many people
leverage Discord so well to build their
own communities I love hearing that
stuff and I I know I could stand to be
doing that so but uh yeah the the the
you know again this is where to that one
point
um my 20 years in doing customer service
customer success is it's not about
making satisfied customers

(01:22:41):
That's the basis that's the that's the
grand old make cat customer satisfied
it's going that extra mile that you are
turning customers into Advocates they
are now your free sales people if you
can make it such that you've got
something that they're so excited about
that solved their problems that made
their life easier that they want to tell
their friends about their their peers

(01:23:01):
about that's what makes a successful
business and it's so it's putting the
energy in to going that extra mile uh uh
to to help turn customers into Advocates
that's what makes a business take off
mm-hmm well said
well said well listen I think that's a
great closing Point uh for today Andy I

(01:23:21):
want to thank you so much for your time
and wish you of course all the success
in growing this very exciting business
very cool design I'm glad that it's
enabling you to get some Joy uh and and
engage with the community in such a
positive way and whatever we can do to
help shine a light uh is fantastic I
want to thank you for the collaborative

(01:23:41):
that we've done in the past with you
know the stuff you did with the mutant
is fantastic uh and if you're still with
us on the in the chat thank you for
joining us we look forward to having you
uh hopefully again with us next week
we'll we'll pick back up and um I'm
really excited we got some interesting
guests in the in the mix uh things to
come the conversation we had last week

(01:24:02):
around
um the the new maker economy and stuff
is has uh drawn some attention for some
really interesting individuals
requesting to be on uh to talk about
some stuff so like we can look forward
to that and uh it's more of the same but
uh thank you so much for tuning in for
supporting us we are maker that money uh
the podcast where we talk about turning

(01:24:23):
your hobby into your Joby and uh join us
again soon for more conversation on uh
such exciting things so thank you
everybody have a fantastic weekend Andy
stay right there I'm gonna sign off of
the stream and uh we'll see you guys
next time