Maker That Money S2 Ep4: No Good Deed Goes UnPunished with Bill Doran of Punished Props

Today we're joined by Bill Doran owner of Punished Props to discuss his MANY adventures in Maker Entrepreneurism as a Prop Builder, Author, Educator, 3D Designer, and the adventures still to come with his latest brand GizmoThrill!

Today's Guest: Bill Doran, Owner Punished Props: https://www.punishedprops.com/  @punishedprops  Twitter / Insta: @chinbeard

Two small business owners who got their start as makers share their experiences and unsolicited opinions a few years into their adventures.

Andrew Mayhall, Founder & Owner of 3D Gloop: @3dgloop Alan Puccinelli, Founder & Owner of Repkord: @Repkord ​

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
go

(00:04):
good morning everyone happy Friday as
always welcome back to the podcast where
we talk about turning your hobby into
your Joby this is
maker that money live here on the
YouTubes we record just about every
Friday at 9 00 a.m Pacific uh if you are
with us on YouTube this morning you may

(00:26):
notice uh my trusty sidekick Mr Andrew
May Hall is not with us today but we did
find a decent stand-in I think in Mr
Bill Duran from punish props Bill
welcome how are you today
hello I'm doing great I've had a
fantastic week this is a pretty pretty
wonderful way to round it out I'm gonna

(00:47):
get to work on some products today and
then I'm gonna grab some pee beer for
this lovely Friday that's a plan oh man
tjif we're lucky to have you with us for
it I'm glad to hear that uh it's been a
good week for you and we'll we hope to
finish strong with you here so we'll
we'll have some fun today on the Pod
today we've got a lot of ground to cover

(01:08):
now uh Bill's gonna introduce himself in
a minute but I'll just uh I'll just lead
with uh this is a man of many many uh
talents both you know artistically and
entrepreneurially he's a published
author he's he's an incredibly
accomplished prop builder and uh dare I

(01:30):
say like educator I guess and some of
your content that you've put out in your
book and stuff and yeah uh I know you
have a background in 3D modeling and
design and we're gonna get into all of
that all of that so that's that's
exciting uh and I know you've got some
new new adventures coming up that I'm
hoping you can share with us as well so

(01:50):
we're gonna we're gonna talk about that
but before we do Bill we have a
tradition here on maker that money where
we like to share
a win for the week because we're very
positive here we're very very positive
energy we harness the good energy we
block out the bad honest good block bad
okay I like it so now you get to leave
you have the honor of leading off the

(02:11):
positivity in your lead and then I'm
asking uh all our friends that are with
us in the chat to share their wins for
the week as well I'll share one we'll
have a nice Kumbaya moment and then
we'll dive in deeper on the pod
awesome why don't you go for it
uh so this week I've got to work on
um I'm I'm making uh one of the Epistles

(02:33):
from Starfield new video game I've been
playing a ton of it very into it so I've
got to spend my time and go to my
computer making a 3D model I'm going to
3D print it
um and that's like my happy place so
much of what we do for work during the
day we're filming and I can't listen to
music but when I'm 3D modeling I'm not

(02:54):
recording so I can put on some ska some
third wave scar some Less Than Jake yeah
some mighty Moody Boss Tones some uh a
real big fish which by the way in
college I was in a real big fish cover
band no no way you were that's a what
did you play
I'm the guitar and I sang oh my gosh

(03:16):
is there is there video somewhere in the
vault is there is there's there's got to
be some footage there's audio I've got
we recorded
um from the audience my my wife Brittany
recorded with a high eight video camera
I lost the video but I still have the
audio okay of us playing uh a gig uh in
Oneonta New York in 2005.

(03:38):
um and they paid us in beer and they
paid us before we played so oh that's a
putting a lot of faith all right but it
was a lot of fun so anyway I got to
spend like the last three days just 3D
modeling noodling out I could even share
uh oh yeah this project and just

(04:00):
listening to music which I don't usually
get to do all that I'm calling that a
big win this is the the Rattler from uh
yeah so if you're listening back to the
Pod guys just really uh quick he he well
he just described it it's the Rattler
gun from Starfield and it looks
absolutely incredible I'll just tell you

(04:20):
this right now uh you need to go to
Bill's website it's punishprops.com
uh and uh he has an incredible array of
just amazing stuff so you can get a
sense of like what he was showing us
here he's got other prop weapons and all
kinds of other stuff and we'll dive in
on that uh in a second

(04:41):
uh looks like we had a little blip we
lost you for a second but uh you're
coming back so I don't know something
going on in the pot in the prop dungeon
uh with the the Wi-Fi is who knows we're
gonna just we're gonna muscle through
though we do the best we can here
um share in the chat guys if uh you have
a good win for us and uh I'll highlight

(05:02):
it uh just really quick to say hi to
some uh some good friends here Josh
Manley from CAD class uh Grant from
three day Musketeers good to see you
Mike from never let the machines win
George White good to see you again my
friend awesome having you guys all here
uh I will share my win
um I I had a great week of just

(05:22):
reconnecting with some old friends uh
and and I always feel like
I do a poor job of staying in touch with
a lot of these little like people I've
known 20 25 years you know from back in
High School College days and stuff like
that and so you know every once in a
while I'll I'll get on myself where I'm

(05:42):
like I gotta I'll look through the the
contact list and be like I haven't
talked to him in a while and so I
reached out and it's just really nice
because most of my friends are just so
fantastic about just picking up wherever
we left off and uh that that was my
happy place
so great wherever wherever you guys
happy place is I I love connecting
people I was talking to people sharing

(06:03):
stuff and I know we don't get to do
nearly enough of that in this day and
age especially like virtually and all
that stuff uh so you know sometimes
picking up the phone is good if you
can't do a face-to-face uh I encourage
you everybody call your mom call your
dad call your friends just you know
connect with people that's always a good
message
yeah that's terrific

(06:25):
thank you thank you
um so let's let's dive in a little bit
why don't you just give uh I I I I
hesitate to say brief because there's
just so much there but like an overview
of your professional life and and kind
of
how you got into you know running your
own business and what the venture has

(06:46):
evolved to be over the years oh yeah and
it has definitely evolved if there's one
thing any uh budding entrepreneurs can
take from this conversation to today is
that thing today is good
foreign

(07:07):
and it's indistinguishable from what it
was when I started okay so
um I got it uh cosplay in the in like
2010
and uh
after a couple of years I started taking
commissions from the internet people
liked the things I was making uh props
and stuff so that people reached out and
said hey can you make me the thing and

(07:27):
I'll give you money for it and I was
like business plan form
there it is how hard can it be I know I
can do this yeah
um so I did that in 2012 I quit my job I
worked at Microsoft for a while I did
video publishing there
um which is funny enough a lot of what I
do now for my current job a lot of video

(07:47):
publishing
um
so uh that's what it started as people
would reach out and um say I want a
costume I want to prop uh here's how
much I'll pay for it and I did that for
a while
but a few things I learned making
costumes for people over the Internet
very difficult hard to size them

(08:10):
hard to money to cover what it costs to
make a bespoke costume
so I quickly transitioned to just making
props for people hence the punished
props who's being punished you or the
customer both the pro the props are
you'll see they're all they're all props
we call that season weathering right

(08:32):
seasoning or whatever yeah lots of
weathering
um so the thing with hand props is one
size fits all so that became a lot
easier so like this is uh something for
Mass Effect I made a silicone mold of
that and I would cast copies
to uh and that turns out way easier like
you make the one that you make the mold
and then you can just make copies really

(08:52):
quickly and sell the copies and that was
my my bread and butter for a while
uh selling uh
um from this this is before 3D printing
too I that was made by hand with the
hand tools and stuff there was stuff
before 3D printing build that's
incredible right yeah who knew uh
everything else is here is 3D printed
yeah yeah yeah that's not true we got a

(09:13):
we got foam we got this was handmade
this was handmade oh you were a you were
a master of foam too and I'm sure we'll
get into more on that yeah we will uh so
so the it transitioned into that and
then um I got into making tutorials so
people started asking how I made this
stuff
um I followed a lot of other people that
were sharing their techniques on the

(09:34):
replica prop Forum or on their own
website so I started my own website
where I was sharing my builds uh and
that just started to snowball uh I have
a background in video production anyway
okay so I started filming my YouTube
videos
and that kind of took off
uh and by 2015 I think that's when

(09:56):
Britney quit her job okay
um my Britney's my wife and my partner
and everything yeah uh she quit her job
and uh we started producing our books
and I believe I have one oh right here
oh he just happens to have it and it's
called foam Smith ladies and gentlemen
yeah this is my this is the stunt book
whenever I need to like take photos of

(10:19):
uh of a book uh or a video like we did a
video where I had to drop this to make
it look cool in slow motion okay so it
gets punished as well then it is very
much punished yeah so we started making
props and costumes out of EVA foam like
this this fella right here yeah uh and I
wrote a book about it and that's this is

(10:39):
the first one and we've since written
two more okay I do all the writing and
photos Britney does all the layout and
editing and everything and they look
great because Brit's awesome it really
does look great and yes I can attest
Brit is awesome I wish it was with us
today but I understand it's uh you got
to divide and conquer we're gonna get
into that partnership in a little bit
too because being married to your

(11:00):
business partner there's got to be some
stuff there to talk about that's that's
the whole thing and we work great
together and it's not for everyone but
Brittany and I are a dynamic duo yes
indeed yes indeed all right more history
so by then I think I took my last
Commission in 2014. uh okay and every
once in a while I'll I'll do a job for
someone if a friend reaches out if Adam

(11:21):
Savage reaches out I'll do it I'll work
for Adam
you know when Adam calls you you pick up
the phone right yeah yeah but for the
most part we transitioned into doing
educational stuff so we make our videos
the videos are uh free on YouTube uh
they're supported by patreon and YouTube
memberships but they're also a Content
marketing platform for our books and

(11:43):
other products that we have on our
website yeah uh the website by the way
punishprops.com
um if you go into the video section
there is a there is a section called
business talk
uh so a lot of what I've learned about
running a business I've shared there
including books that I recommend in any
videos or podcasts I've done that cover
the subject so if anyone wants to know

(12:04):
what I know about running a business
on the website that's actually a real I
one I was not aware of that I feel I
should have done some better homework
ahead of this but two that is a very
unique uh offering because I know
there's just a lot of people that are
that are aspiring to do this I mean

(12:24):
we've seen you and I run in a lot of the
same crowds and you know we see online
just these up and coming people and the
talent that is out there in the next
generation and but they are very hungry
and eager to learn which is part of what
this podcast is about uh and so kudos to
you for actually realizing the demand
for that and laying that out because
yeah thank you it's one of those things

(12:46):
where I feel like a lot of people either
um
I don't know they they either want to
keep it close to the vest or they don't
feel like they have a lot to share there
or maybe they're just like like all of
us feeling a little bit of imposter
syndrome where they're like ah you know
I'm figuring it out as we get we're all
figuring out as we go oh yeah so so
that's really cool uh I do have a link

(13:08):
to the website in the description so if
you're listening back after the fact
please go check them out uh
massive resource on multiple fronts and
an inspiring uh Duo that bill and Brit
both are
uh carry on
one quick recommendation if there's only
one thing you take from that the list uh

(13:30):
the e-myth Revisited why small most
small businesses don't work and what to
do about it go read that book if you're
starting a business go read that book
that's that's all I don't have to go
into it any further they do a great job
of explaining it you're like the I think
you're like the third person to bring
that book up to me in the last like six
months I've heard just and I have yet to

(13:50):
I have it in my Audible and I haven't I
haven't gone through it yet so maybe I
need to move it up in the list because
I've got a I love I love audiobooks
specifically because I can you know
multitask while I'm listening yeah I've
done all all of those as audiobooks I
believe yeah yeah yeah very good and so
you know and we're looking for a workout

(14:11):
yeah all right right nothing like
getting your getting all swole and
listening to uh good business tips at
the same time it's just I just that's
just the blood pumping at least for me
but hey maybe I'm biased I I do a you
know entrepreneurial podcast so uh okay
so where are we in the timeline here
we've gotten up to you you're not taking

(14:31):
commissions anymore except for Adam
Savage and uh
um
uh 2015. okay so we got a couple more
years to go
yeah so Brit this this was eight
between the team so we
punished props pays all
of it for the last eight years uh and
we're not like ultra wealthy or anything

(14:53):
um not by Seattle standards because he
lives in a I've been to his house he
lives in a Glass Castle yeah no it's
it's amazing
and you're in such a great you actually
made a foam though the whole house is
made of foam guys
ha ha
living the actual dream
so we we've we've been making it work

(15:14):
it's not not without its pitfalls or
challenges
um but we've been making it work
um and and uh another another sort of
turning point for me I think it was
2013. I sat down my friend Mark
and Mark and Nicole spagnolo from The
Wood Whisperer if anyone who follows
relax

(15:37):
um give me a list like here's a bunch of
stuff you need to do for your business
like you need to have your own website
you gotta start a mailing list yeah it
was just a check
checklist of all these things to do and
I was like you got it Nicole and I went
and I did all that uh actually one thing
I remember I asked Mark I said Mark how
do you pick which projects to film and

(15:59):
he said I film all of them and I said
very well I will do that too and now we
have over 700 videos on our YouTube
channel incredible yeah I was gonna say
you're a prolific content creator and um
but I'm sure over time you start to
learn you know maybe be more selective
or it's you can always record stuff and

(16:21):
not publish right but better to do that
than to say not have the recording at
all I guess
yeah it's better to have the footage
than to not yeah it's always good to
have too much footage trust me
see uh so yeah there's a sort of
returning part Point talking to Mark and
Nicole and
um part of the reason why I share all

(16:43):
that stuff on my website is because I
have I have gleaned that information
from other people and I want to pass it
on and the other thing I want to remind
people is if you get good advice from
people and you follow through with it
and it works well tell them that makes
them feel amazing yeah because I've I've
gone in and passed out information to
other people who and a handful of them

(17:03):
have run with it and it feels so good
when they say hey I gave that a shot and
it worked thanks so much so it goes both
like the the mutual respect thing goes
both ways for sure
um yeah so thank you Margaret Nicole if
you're listening
yeah I'm sure they regularly tune in and
uh I'm sure I'm sure they're
appreciative to hear that uh okay that

(17:25):
no that's that's that's awesome man it's
good to hear and it's uh like a great
reminder in general too just you know be
appreciative we're all built on the
shoulders of giants to some extent uh
and it's always nice to hear about what
works uh and then you know if somebody
gives you advice and it doesn't work
um you know that's when you follow mom's
rules you don't have something nice to
say you don't say it at all I suppose I

(17:46):
don't know hey that was terrible advice
never talking to you again yeah yeah
unsubscribe uh okay
so yeah we we um we had YouTube we had
we had a podcast for a while we don't do
that anymore but it was an excuse for me
to bring a friend in once a week I was
for a long time working in the basement

(18:07):
by myself I'm very social so I was
lonely and I decided to start a podcast
so that I could con a friend in to come
hanging out for an hour every week I
mean why do you think I'd do it yeah
yeah I know right yeah yeah yeah so so
yeah we did that for okay we did a
couple hundred of those
um on YouTube if you want to watch
something called prop live yeah

(18:30):
um we ran we started our patreon to
support all of that including our videos
um
we started doing the books you know
what's funny I started selling eBooks on
my website because the cost was so low I
it doesn't cost anything to fulfill an
ebook yeah uh just PDF to people buy it
on our website it gets emailed to them
you know what people were doing they

(18:51):
were printing them and binding them
themselves so they could have a copy in
the shop
that's a that's such a great thing to
hear
so uh
uh started yeah she she turned it into a

(19:12):
print book like this was an ebook first
but her first job when she when she
started here full-time was to to do the
the print book and now we have three of
them
my goodness maybe I should just ask you
what you haven't done instead of what
you have because like get you you really
have
just been through a lot of it uh this is
great and we're not even through it yet

(19:33):
so let's go
here we've so we published those out
ourselves
um we Brit does all the layout I do all
the photo and uh text
uh we pay to have them printed we we um
so the first one we did like a pre-order
so we could get a little money ahead of
time uh to go pay to get them printed
but we get them done a thousand copies

(19:54):
at a time
uh which is it's cheaper per unit but
you gotta cough up like 12 Grand to uh
to get that run down and so that's what
we do yeah and uh we keep in inventory
we have a storage unit where we keep all
of our book inventory and
um while it does cost a lot more up
front to do all that we get all the

(20:17):
proceeds sure um when you when you go
through a publisher there's a lot of
good reasons to go through a publisher
um but they they they get most of that
margin yeah when we do it our way we
have to pay to you know get it
and everything but the markup is way
better to do it ourselves
okay excuse me

(20:40):
again which are free
to do content marketing to sell the
books uh and since then we've added
other products like we have our own
Putters props branded snap blade knives
that you use for everything including
foam making I've got mine right over
there you got one yeah oh yeah yeah well
that was like the first thing that break

(21:00):
we got to your house was like okay
everybody get your get your razor you
know like all the goodies came out yeah
yeah I'm right here we've got we've got
uh replacement blades yeah which is
great for me because I use these all the
time and I think I have about 20 000 of
these left I was gonna say you must burn
through those things yeah
so yeah we've been we've we've tinkered

(21:21):
with things like that
um we've tried merch merch didn't really
work well for us no but that's fine
it it does okay it doesn't that's the
sort of thing we go through we wanted to
um we bought a a
thing for making our own t-shirts what
do you call one of those things oh yeah

(21:41):
oh okay not like a thermal press like
the the legit silk screen machine okay
and uh turns out
way too much to do ourselves
we have videos to make and edit uh so we
go through uh like printful or one of
those other companies to do it
um so and again they they take most of
the margin there and we sell a few

(22:02):
shirts every week but nothing nothing
like our books or our knives so you
Tinker you know you experiment with
different products see what works see
what doesn't work
um and we found what works for us over
many many years of experimentation
you are your you are your own guinea pig
uh in business and honestly I think it's
a fantastic strategy we're we live in an

(22:25):
interesting time where we can do you
know trial and error like that to and
and like you said like sometimes the
costs of it you know can be more and you
learn some lessons and like ah that did
not pan out uh but sometimes you know
you you find what Hooks and then you can
just work on scaling that and I think
that's a perfectly valid business

(22:46):
strategy
um and hopefully you're learning what's
bringing you Joy and what's not bringing
you Joy along the way to and not letting
yourself get wrapped up in the grind of
something that's just not not doing it
for you yeah yeah actually when I so
when I quit my job I gave myself one
rule that rule was if I don't if I'm not

(23:07):
having fun then I might as well go back
to my day job because my day I had a
good job I had a great job that paid
well and was very secure yeah I was
giving that up yeah uh look it wasn't a
very fun job
so if this new job stops being fun might
as well go back to that other one so
that that's a huge guiding fact like I
said I got to spend the last three days

(23:28):
3D modeling in my happy place yeah like
so I want to be able to find a way to be
able to do that as much as possible as
opposed to other part there are there
are certain parts of running a business
that you just gotta do that are kind of
boring and dumb that's one thing but you
don't want to find yourself in a
situation where every day you're getting
up doing something you don't enjoy just
because it pays the bills absolutely

(23:49):
we've been able to mostly maintain that
absolutely absolutely I think
um
finding that right balance it just takes
some time and it just takes some putting
some some hours in but it's it's what
you just said something that just sounds
like so just unbelievably obvious but
really not because I I've been going

(24:10):
through a lot of that in my my own life
I'd be like man I am grinding hard here
and I'm not enjoying this at all like
why you know why am I putting myself
through this and we keep you know
telling yourself for the promise for the
independence I mean I I remind myself
it's like it still beats the heck out of
having to go report to somebody else and
yeah that's true you know in all of that

(24:31):
um but for the long the longest time you
know with this Venture and the one
before I think I always had it in the
back of my head that it was just like
well you know like hopefully the phone
keeps ringing the orders keep coming in
and if not you know I'll just go get a
job again
um how long do you think it took for you
to like really accept the fact that you
were like this is gonna work like did

(24:53):
you have these moments where you're just
like ah this might not work and I'll
just get job again in a year
um let's see so the first year we really
made decent money I think was 2016. okay
once we started so like four years after
quitting my job before I thought hey
this is working yeah
um so yeah 2016 was probably

(25:15):
when it really kicked off uh you know
what happened during that year is I had
during the time I had a little bit of
credit card debt from running the
business sure I had uh student loans and
during that year I was able to pay all
of that off with money oh in a in a car
as well a car loan I paid all of that
off during 2016 with money I made with

(25:37):
my prop making
um and then everything I made after that
was gravy I just was just money in the
bank and my savings started I looked at
that and I was like hold this hold on I
didn't even recognize it happening until
until I had a chunk of money saved up I
was like this is this is working what a
what a great feeling that is

(25:59):
I think that that three to four year
mark was was very similar for me but
prior to uh opening rep Court up I I was
a web developer a freelance web
developer totally different you know
service trade and uh you know just
building websites for other people and
all that stuff but I fell into that kind
of by accident as like something I was

(26:19):
doing when I got laid off from my job
before that and I was just thinking like
oh this is gonna you know make some
money while I'm looking for another job
and you know the phone just kind of kept
ringing before I knew it I was like
three years in and I'm like I guess this
is my job now
um but for some reason it doesn't always
you know I didn't do the business plan
either I didn't do you know any of that

(26:41):
stuff and so a lot of times with these
things I feel like I'm playing catch-up
on a lot of the fundamental
administrative and things that I just
like now I'll figure it out later and
then before I know it it's like you know
three years in so did you did you come
across any of that stuff where you
probably put off you know finding an
accountant or doing any of this stuff
like until you know much longer than you

(27:02):
probably should have
yeah yeah I found that it was really
easy to put that stuff off when I wasn't
making any money sure like I don't need
an accountant there's no money
yeah exactly
exactly yeah that's funny oh yeah that
the administrative stuff is the stuff I
struggle with the most um getting myself

(27:22):
to do that that sort of thing I put it
all off until the last minute that's why
Achilles heel I get it done but but uh
it is the least fun part of what I do
well I I feel that uh more than you know
my friend and going so proceeding on
with your your story are we to the point
yet where you you got the big shop and

(27:43):
you started uh you know doing like
physical oh okay I don't wanna okay that
was that was 2018 but before that I
wanted to talk a little bit about 3D
printing something we're both passionate
about yes
we can for a long time the prop
Community was kind of hesitant about
getting into 3D printing
and we decided started because I have a

(28:04):
background in 3D modeling and uh but I
was worried that people were gonna be
push back against it a little bit okay
um so we we actually had a partnership
with Autodesk to uh show off some of
their software and I did a series on 3D
modeling

(28:25):
um but we doubled up the content so I
would do like my normal builds normal
traditional prop making uh and also that
week I would do a um a 3D modeling 3D
printing video we got the um
the Dremel idea Builder we had which was
a really terrific machine

(28:45):
um but on top of that uh I also put out
some uh educational content some premium
educational content so I use uh 2D
software called inkscape all the time
it's free it's for doing 2D patterns and
and
um vectors and all that so I made a
video course like a premium video course

(29:05):
that we sell on our website on
everything I know about inkscape okay
um
and since then we've done a few more
things like that including I have one on
Fusion 360 now so the I use Fusion 360
for all my 3D modeling it's what I was
I've been using this week so I made a
short four hour video course on just the
basics of what I need to do

(29:25):
um to model 3D props for printing okay
um so that that's another sort of facet
of what we do we do free videos on
YouTube but I've we've dipped our toe
into doing premium videos uh that people
have to pay for and it's filmed very
differently it's filmed more like an
actual instructional course but the
response from that has been really great
as well

(29:46):
um so yeah like you said we're
supporting out we try a lot of different
things and it's not that
I'm looking for something that's going
to be the new thing I do all the time
it's more just like it's diversifying
diversifying your products you have a
bunch of different products that you can
push so now whenever so I'm building
this this prop from uh
uh a few um from Starfield yeah and the

(30:09):
video on YouTube is not a 3D modeling
tutorial um I don't want to make 3D
modeling
it's really painful to edit yourself 3D
modeling at least that's what I find
it's tough yeah so
in the video I say hey I'm going to
juice I'm going to tell you some of the
concepts of the 3D modeling but if you
want to Deep dive you can go buy the uh

(30:29):
the fusion course so I find that's a
really great way to Market that we have
our wow we have our first call Bill your
goodness you ready to take a call
all right here we go let's see if uh
let's see if the system still works uh
let's see greetings caller you're on the
air with uh Pooch and Bill Duran of

(30:49):
punished props can you hear us
let's see
oh I don't know if we lost him I don't
know if he's muted he is supposedly
piped through oh wait a second wait a
second I think I know exactly what the
problem might be I was messing with let
me see if I can do this on the Fly Guys
bear with me here just a second here
because I think

(31:11):
I think uh and hold on if uh let's see
here
that input
is the guest caller feed I might have
screwed something up here in the sense
that I've rebuilt the layout so that
just bill and I could do the split here
and I think I might have forgotten to
pull in the audio feed from the calls oh

(31:33):
audio input add existing
uh
uh we have USB he should be feeding on
the USB I don't know
let's try unmuting this
he's not muted
and
oh

(31:54):
we're not getting any audio from him
well
that was a big womp womp womp we're
gonna have to plug on I uh I apologize I
don't know if it's on my end or yours uh
It Was Daryl from off Earth 3D so maybe
we can get him to at least uh hit us in
the chat if he's got some questions or
something like that uh and then we'll

(32:15):
figure out uh for our next one with
What's Happening Here uh
I just saw Daryl at Dragon Con in
Atlanta uh he okay so let's see last
time I saw him uh was I think Emerald
City when I saw you one of the last
couple times I saw you uh very talented
guy uh if you guys aren't falling off

(32:37):
Earth uh 3D you guys need to go check
out his stuff uh he is incredible he's
been doing a lot of uh stuff uh around
Halo content and just other you know
builds in general but uh
super talented guy and uh yeah he just
finished the Starfield helmet I just saw
this morning very exciting yeah I I know

(32:59):
how much you're into that too and I
think you were kind of eyeballing some
maybe like noodling some ideas on that
front so we can talk about that
uh sorry Daryl I don't know what's going
on with the call-in right now so
technical difficulties here we go this
is what happens when we just don't test
our stuff enough or we change things
around but uh yeah live live performance
for you

(33:19):
um all right bill so you were talking uh
you're talking about uh you know the
educational content recording yourself
on
um
uh on on doing Fusion doing like content
that being you know a difficult thing uh
to present
um I did have a question for you around

(33:40):
that in the sense that I know that we
see a lot of a lot of people coming up
with Fusion content and I I think that
uh Autodesk is like they kind of do
their own thing but I they seem to be
open to the idea of like collaborating
and so I'll see stuff but if
right now it's interesting because it
feels a little uh discontinuous in the

(34:01):
sense that it's like the software is
almost updating so fast that the content
doesn't keep up with it
um when you're trying to learn a
platform like this and you go to
somewhere like YouTube and you look for
those kinds of resources
um it can be frustrating when like the
video you're pulling up is six months
old but the UI doesn't even look the
same and you know I don't know what that
does for the the learning process did

(34:23):
you learn I mean I know you're more like
old school type you said you studied
this in school but do you like to learn
in that fashion do you have any feels
around like that type of content and why
it doesn't work or why it might work
I do when I'm 3D modeling in Fusion at
least once a day I'm look ing up

(34:43):
something on YouTube I'll go to YouTube
Fusion 360.
how do I get this my loft isn't working
what's wrong sort of thing yeah
um so yeah I I looked at stuff all up
all itself learning
um but yeah like uh blow is a great
example a few years ago they went
through a major overhaul especially in
their UI so a lot of that old content

(35:04):
instructional content is is not as
useful anymore and that's just kind of
part of the game
um
I've found though because I've used I I
when I was in school I learned Maya
I've used blender I've used 3D Studio
Max yeah um and then a bunch of
different CAD platforms
um the concepts don't change very much

(35:25):
the operations
um learning what one software calls that
thing that you use it's it's the it's
the Rumple stiltskin
uh principle once you learn the name
that you can Master the thing
um so I found that traveling between
those different softwares once you
understand the concept uh is really

(35:48):
useful so like in the fusion 360 course
that I do I try and just really cover
the concepts of what it is you're trying
to do
drawing a two-dimensional sketch and
then extruding it like that operation
hasn't changed in decades so that's the
pretty uh common concept that you can do
in Fusion or on shape or inventor or or

(36:11):
any of those those programs there
um that's kind of like like in the
YouTube video I'm filming for this I I I
want people to be to understand the sort
of the mindset you want to be in when
you're when you're 3D modeling something
so for this this gun that I'm making
um I modeled half of it and I'm gonna
mirror it because it's it's the same uh

(36:31):
and that's just that's just a good thing
to know no matter what you're 3D
modeling or what socks sure yeah but
yeah you have to be nimble because
they'll change they'll change where
things are they'll teacher things are
called sometimes you have to I may have
to um at some point
um go in and do a
um a digital remaster of my Fusion 360

(36:52):
course and update some of the
information in it yeah I mean I guess
there's a reason why textbooks uh will
do like revisions and changes and stuff
over the years so I I got a message from
from Daryl he he's just uh one he's
curious about uh advice for scaling
specifically from going from that hobby
level to more official business stuff

(37:15):
now I know we haven't quite gotten
through your complete Arc here so I
don't know if we'd be better off like
kind of going because like I said you I
I think you've kind of like you've gone
up and you've gone bad and there's been
some experimentation and all that stuff
and so scaling for you might look
different from what you know what you
would have recommended back in 2018 2019

(37:36):
may not be what you do now
lot there what do you think
yeah so like so when it comes to
deciding if you have a day job and you
you have this hobby that's sort of
taking off uh that you you're
considering turning into a job
um it's there's no like hard and fast
rule on like when to pull the trigger or
if ever to pull the trigger sometimes

(37:57):
keeping your day job and just having
this thing on the side that kind of
makes you a little money is better for a
lot of people
um what I would say is uh Don't Be
Afraid necessarily to take the plunge
but also don't be afraid to go back to
the way things were that's fine No One's
Gonna think less of you it's very hard
to do it's a very personal thing to do

(38:18):
I'll tell you what what
how I arrived at that decision okay
um
the first thing and most important thing
is I had the support of my my partner
and wife Brittany
um she was pushing me to give it a go I
had a backlog of commissions I had six
months of commissions lined up so I had
work in the pipeline and I didn't have

(38:39):
enough time to do it all
um so
uh uh gave me a little bit of a bit of a
push
[Music]
like I didn't have a lot of
um
uh
uh uh what would you call it I didn't
have a ton of liability yeah yeah they

(39:02):
are a liability I will tell you
right absolutely uh so I I could afford
to take that risk for a couple of years
okay uh Britney still had her job so we
had insurance and we had a second income
um so these were all factors that that
um that told me let's let's give it a

(39:23):
shot
um and all but also and this is
something I didn't think of at the time
uh consider an exit strategy consider
what it would take if you had to go back
to a job
um you don't want to be in a position
where you like took a bunch of orders
and people paid for them and you realize
that you're not making any money on

(39:44):
these orders yeah
but you got to fulfill them like you got
it so you're like oh I have to spend the
next year fulfilling these orders that
aren't making me any money yeah
um so be wary of how much of what you
commit to as well so for example in 2013
we did a Kickstarter I designed my own
space Blaster I don't even have one here

(40:04):
I made so many of them I'm kind of sick
of them yeah I designed a space Blaster
it was very ambitious it was 13 pieces I
had I was making molds of molds of molds
I hired people to cast the molds
um the uh the kickstarter was successful
we made like 30 000 bucks okay and I
spent every last penny of that casting

(40:24):
those things
and I didn't I ended up breaking even
which which was actually a kind of a
happy ending that was at least you
didn't lose money okay all right yeah
and you built some reputation and some
stuff so there's like value but it's not
necessarily always cash value and that's
not yeah
I was at a point where where I was like

(40:44):
realizing these weren't making any money
and I still had like a hundred of these
things to make
yeah
um and I just had to we just had to take
it down the chin and
yeah
consider having some sorts of strategy
as well I I really like that actually uh

(41:05):
well you know I I advocate more for
sustainability and again like oh they're
gone good
um I I was just drinking my coffee yeah
yeah yeah no I was gonna say I I think
that's a that's a really powerful
message and I wanted to think about you
know sustainability digestible chunks
you know just don't like bury yourself
and uh in things and and especially

(41:28):
don't over commit to things where you
don't actually know I mean you're
describing the the Common Thread between
every uh you know maker prop builder
that I've you know heard stories like
this from in fact I was just listening
to something you talked about Adam
Savage earlier and he was sharing I
really enjoy some of the little um you
know q a sessions he does out of his

(41:49):
Workshop because he's just got such
great little tasty morsel nuggets in
there of you know his time in the early
90s getting his start before pre-myth
Busters and all that stuff but he was
talking about the exact same thing or
it's just like grossly under bid you
know wasn't charging nearly enough
wasn't making money
um and and like how to manage that

(42:11):
client because the I think the Common
Thread that I see with a lot of makers
is like we're not and this is
this is stereotypically speaking I'm not
saying to everybody
but the sales process of the whole thing
is like the least glamor like we don't
want to sell we don't want to negotiate
we don't want to deal with like a lot of
that stuff we just want to make cool

(42:33):
[ __ ] we always say right
um
that's right and and so uh I think a lot
of times we'll gloss over the the devil
in the details of like what is the scope
what am I gonna get paid what happens if
there's a scope overrun or change orders
or all the things that inevitably happen

(42:54):
when you deal with commission work
um and and you know how do I how do I
deal with it because that that's the
stuff that'll just it's just soul
sucking sometimes right and you're just
like this is not fun anymore
um so you know what advice do you have
real quick oh okay jump ahead because
the topic is perfect Brittany and I are
are building a new Endeavor right now a

(43:14):
3D printing endeavor
and uh so we're building a new business
from the ground up okay knowing what I
know now which is a very different
position than when I started this this
you don't even let me get to the
question bill but that's fine how would
you do it differently if you do if
knowing what you know now good go so I'm
I'm starting this new thing

(43:35):
thinking in my head what happens when I
don't want to do this anymore right okay
so we're going to be 3D modeling stuff
for other people to print fun neat
projects for people to print and a huge
question is how much do I want to commit
to uh-huh right work do I want to commit
to I'm still going to do this job this
is a new thing I'm adding yeah

(43:56):
um so for example we want to deliver
um my first thought was like Brittany
and I will each 3D model a kit per month
so we'll have two kits per month okay
and then then I thought
well what if
what if we can one
per month and then with the potential to
add a second one later it's way easier

(44:18):
to add more to pull it away when you
take stuff away from Full they get upset
yeah
um yeah and then on top of that uh we're
considering a subscription model so we
want this to be an ongoing thing we make
a thing we get paid per month sort of
thing right but we also want to run a
website where people can buy these
things a la carte and the idea is when I

(44:40):
get sick of doing this every month which
is might have or if I get distracted or
if there's a new thing I want to do yeah
I can turn off the subscription thing
and I have this store that
okay
so yeah yeah that's that's we're
building this new thing with an exit

(45:01):
strategy in mind what happens when this
isn't working or we don't want to do it
anymore
uh so yeah there's my advice to Daryl I
I like that I guess I would push back
just slightly on you and say is that a
luxury of success to some extent right
because we don't all have the choice to
just pick and choose in the same way you

(45:21):
know having having been there so
you know
sustainability as a choice once you're
in it for 10 plus years versus starting
from nothing you know sure I can see
that yeah yeah I don't know just trying
to call BS or anything I'm just saying
you know that's absolutely that's an
interesting thing I mean what you're
look there is no shortcut to having to

(45:42):
go through your grind everybody's gonna
have to pay some dues uh and everybody
has different amount of resources
available but the wisdom is there and it
is good and if you have that mentality
in mind now what you can afford to you
know be able to not do is going to vary
as you have more options but yeah yeah

(46:02):
that's actually something I found is
really useful is you want to you want to
work your way into a position where you
can
four
four
and started you don't necessarily have
that that uh
that luxury get there yeah

(46:24):
yeah I I remember that feeling from the
web development days too it's like you
earned the right to say no you know you
earn you you you kind of you know at
some point you're just trying to make a
name for yourself you need that
portfolio you need to build the
portfolio do the portfolio pieces and
all that stuff I don't know maybe
sometimes I would argue let me ask you
this because you probably have some
feels on it I think we like to take the

(46:45):
work to build up the portfolio
originally we want that experience and
all that stuff you definitely need
experience working with a customer and
stuff but are there times where
sometimes you might be better off just
like doing some passion projects for
your portfolio because like you're not
beholden to anything and that maybe it
can be more efficient because you're not
dealing with scope creep and you know
all that stuff so maybe a combination of

(47:05):
those things and then you can inject
some of the things that you get to
choose and are bringing you Joy
not necessarily like that you had to do
uh to get paid
sure yeah and it's actually
one of the reasons like the way we do
our YouTube channel
um because people will send me a message
and they'll say hey can you make
something from uh Warhammer and I get to

(47:26):
say uh no uh I don't play Warhammer uh I
just make stuff that I want yeah yeah
yeah yeah and the the product is the the
instructional video the product is you
get to learn no matter what I'm making
you'll still learn something that you
could use on your own thing right um but
everything you see behind me is a

(47:46):
passion project it was
no the rose quartz sword from Steven
Universe but I think that's one of the
best TV shows ever made so that's what I
decided I wanted to make
um amazing and and it's cool because
[Music]
um
so sometimes I'll make stuff because
it's like new or neat I've made some I
made some fortnite stuff even though I

(48:07):
don't play fortnite
but uh
all the
type stuff I do I try to make sure it's
something that I'm deeply invested in
um I find that makes the video
those thing that you're making

(48:27):
um and all of the stuff I make gets to
be a part of my portfolio which is
really cool yeah uh a lot of times
though so like I was saying before I
cast mold and cast a lot of mass effects
up now fortunately I love Mass Effect uh
and I'm really into that but that was
how I earned a living I wasn't excited I
made one of these and that was great but
I made money by casting copies of it

(48:49):
yeah that wasn't necessarily fun I
wasn't passionate about making copies of
a thing but that's how I made my money
then every once in a while I would have
to go all right let's make a new Mass
Effect Blaster I'll have one right here
let's make let's make my other favorite
Mass Effect Blaster
and that's kind of a way of telling the
world The World At Large that's like I

(49:10):
want to make more of these yeah does
anyone want one of these I'm I'm excited
about this who else is excited about
this yeah yeah yeah
yeah because you can find yourself in a
position where you're just making making
copies of a thing that you don't you're
not
United yeah uh and every once in a while
you have to go all right hold off hold
the orders for a second I'm gonna go
make something I'm really excited about

(49:31):
um for myself it just feels good to do
it but it's also a way of telling the
world like hey is anyone want one of
these
so there's a there's a question or
comment from Alex Gibson in the chat he
says he's in a situation where he's
doing okay but working way too many
hours to be sustainable he needs to hire
some staff so that the business can keep
rolling so that when he stops or takes a

(49:53):
break goes on holiday I'm sure or any of
that stuff uh if he wants to improve
things
um and he feels like that's the only way
he's going to be able to retire uh so he
wants to start building toward that now
any experience with that like any fear
around like like right now if you and
Brit are not I mean you guys are the
business right so if you don't do it

(50:14):
operations or are ceased right or they
pause at least
so a couple of things though we
this is great we can talk about for a
while uh but a couple of things one
anything you can do any Revenue that you
can get that is
um uh passive is huge so for us we

(50:35):
started with our ebooks okay there you
go to our website you buy a PDF it gets
emailed right to you end of transaction
I don't have to lift a finger
um if if I get you know
knocked out for a month
that still works that that's still
churning that still makes us money right
um our print books Britney does the
Fulfillment on those

(50:56):
um so if uh if we both get knocked out
those should be awful yeah uh that would
suck we wouldn't have anyone to uh
fulfill those orders for us we'd
probably hire a friend to come in and do
that like once a week come in fulfill
all the orders send them out yeah uh but
the but the digital stuff that's passive

(51:17):
stop
that you can either lift a finger that
that is a huge part
of making
that's so that can be churning making
you money while you're building the next
prototype or filming the next video or
whatever it is
uh and then the other thing the thing
that I learned is that hiring people can

(51:39):
be really super helpful but also once
you have employees managing those
employees as a part of your job yeah uh
and and it turns out I'm not interested
in doing that it's not fun for me I
don't like it I don't want to do it and
when we had we had employees for three
or four years

(52:00):
uh it was one of those things I put off
until the last minute and unfortunately
when you do that if I do that with my
taxes nobody gets upset with me right so
long as it gets done by the end right if
you put off people
they get a little bummed yeah right yeah
yeah uh so just keep that in mind if
you're gonna hire someone managing those

(52:20):
people and that means not not just sure
they have work or anything but dealing
with people problems and you know every
people has a problem
you're never going to avoid that that
becomes a part of your job and just make
sure that something that you're willing
to put the time in to do otherwise
having employees can be as much of a
headache as you're hoping it would solve

(52:42):
yeah
that is man you're just you're just
cranking out the wisdom I mean it
resonates so well because it's like
managing people seems like one of those
things just like I can yeah how hard can
it be it's like I can I'm a sociable
person you're a sociable person like we
know how to deal with people we know how
to talk to people but the problem is is
in the context of business
um

(53:02):
everything's out the window in terms of
like these are not like you're
I don't say you're not your friend
because like a lot of times you develop
relationships like substantial
relationships with these people but
there there are people that you can have
a great friendship with that would be
terrible employees and vice versa that
might be a great employee that you're
not really interested in pursuing uh

(53:23):
outside friendship with so
you know the the challenges is that
they're always The X Factor they're the
most unpredictable element of what you
do and potentially the most expensive uh
you know the payroll yeah is uh easily
the most is easily the most expensive
thing right and so here here you go what

(53:43):
percentage of your cost is tied up in
this this resource that can potentially
be gone in two two weeks if you're lucky
if they don't just you know if it's not
something crazy but life happens people
people move you know they may be a great
employee for years and years and years
and then they uh some medical issue
happens something happens in the family
uh addiction you know any number of

(54:06):
things
um and that's that's a massive threat to
operations a lot of the time
um yeah so you know it's not to say that
it can't be done and it is potentially
an important thing for growth of certain
types of business
but
um I would say the the common thought of

(54:29):
like well we just need to throw more
people at this problem is not always the
solution that we think and oftentimes we
probably do that too late which rushes
the higher which means that there's more
potential for something to go wrong
because we haven't like vetted that so
you know very much buyer beware around
the um

(54:50):
you know the the Staffing side of things
but I I suspect if we were to take a
survey of makers that have had employees
we would hear a lot of what you're
talking about from them
yeah the the best advice I got when it
came to hiring
people is people make sure you get the

(55:12):
kind of people that you can give a task
to and they're gonna run with it
um
without
needing to be handheld the whole time
yeah
um
and it's and like I said I'm not great
at it yeah uh so if you're looking to
hire people there are resources out
there that are going to help you get the
right information that you need yeah um

(55:33):
so yeah we in 2018 we we decided to
expand big time um we run a lean ship
it's me and Brit and our cats and our
basement uh it's very lean here what do
the cats do
the cats yeah they're really just here
to look cute that's all
yeah and I'm like oh that's cute cat I
pet his head yeah yeah and I feel a

(55:54):
little bit better there's value in that
okay good all right yeah sorry uh we
don't pay them much either though it's
an even exchange nice
mutually benefit um
so we decided to make this Heap we
rented a big space here in Seattle which
was expensive we hired a couple of
people which was expensive uh we had a
three-year lease there
um and we what we wanted to do was make

(56:15):
bigger projects make film more Grand
videos yeah and have a bigger presence
on YouTube who put a ton of effort into
YouTube we were filming a new video
every single week
um
and uh Brittany and I did the video so
so we spent most of our time filming
Brittany does the editing uh we had uh
my friend Everett who was working for us

(56:37):
he was kind of running the operations
behind the scene and then we had my
friend Paige who was kind of like the uh
social media assistant she was posting
stuff she was answering comments that
sort of thing and it was great to have
for a while but it was it just wasn't
where we were pretty much just breaking
even for a couple of years yeah let's
keep it going

(56:57):
uh
um once a global pandemic we still had a
year left on our lease and that kind of
that kind of goofed up everything all
right Dad
he ended up leaving uh under amicable

(57:17):
terms we decided it was best because he
was he was expensive
um we decided it was best for him to uh
in his family for him to have a
um more secure job so he went up and got
hired at blizzard immediately because
he's a rock star yeah
um we can't page on for another year or
so

(57:37):
but then we our lease was up and we
decided well that was a experiment that
was an expensive experiment we want to
go back to the way things were before
before now and we're back in our
basement
um the overhead is low
um our hours are a lot more flexible and

(57:58):
it turns out that that's what we wanted
um so yeah that was a huge expensive
learning experience for us
um but we're at a happy replaced now and
we realized uh it took us it took all of
that one thing I do I don't know if
you're the same way of Pooch but uh I
have to learn everything the hard way
it's just how I roll yeah

(58:20):
I gotta if I have an idea in my head
I have to see a big big old thing and it
really didn't work out for us
uh and we learned a lot about ourselves
along the way
you know so now the way things are now
in our shop
we have our our YouTube videos that we
make we have our books that we sell the

(58:40):
videos are really exist to
support the the products that we sell
um and we get to
build whatever we want at pretty much
much whatever Pace that we want uh and
it turns out that's what makes me happy
like I said I got to spend this week
listening to Ska music making a Space
Gun in fusion 360. and it turns out

(59:03):
that's what I wanted to do at least for
now
you know what and that my friend is
winning and I have to say this is one of
the things that I find to be most
enduring about all the interactions I've
had with with you and Brit is that you
just have a good sensible head on your
shoulders and you are the best uh

(59:23):
articulation I've come across so far of
uh well we tried that and we're moving
on like like what is right for you at
certain points in your life uh it is
variable and we go through seasons and
all this stuff and that's okay I think
um one of the challenges in this current
you know day and age and environment of
like social media and youtubing and all

(59:45):
this stuff is like there's just like we
want to to show the world like we're
under this microscope and we people see
and we want to show off that we're
growing and we're succeeding in like the
metrics that we use for that are kind of
backwards right like the things we're
talking about it's like oh we got to
have a bigger place we gotta have more
employees we have like more and and

(01:00:05):
where is that road and it's not to say
that you can't have success with that
but
that's a big animal to grow and to
maintain and and frankly a a recipe for
Burnout a lot of the times
oh yeah yeah and that then that's what
ended up happening we ended up getting
super super burnt out we're we're

(01:00:27):
publishing a 45 minute video every week
um every two weeks that's a feature film
that's it's a lot of video I haven't
even thought of it like that that's an
interesting perspective to put in there
content creation man I I thought about
it a lot I'm sure you have and listen
you mentioned you know you guys do all
the editing and stuff and I'm like I I

(01:00:48):
did a good amount of editing back in the
day like early like when I was dabbling
with with early Premiere and Maya and
stuff like that and I realized really
quickly it's like yeah it's fun but man
the amount of hours and and I'm like
that I'm very you mentioned like I'm the
same way as you too it's like I have to
experience it myself I have to go

(01:01:08):
through the motions but I also I'm like
now that cuts not quite right and then
I'll fiddle with it and I'm spending an
entire day or whatever fiddling with
ridiculous stuff
um I look at creators nowadays like like
uh my good friend Clayton he's uh Uncle
Jesse for real and man that guy can
crank out
endless amounts of content uh and uh

(01:01:31):
repeatedly and he's done it for years
and I'm like I don't know how he
operates that fast and but he's got a
good workflow so if oh gee
I gotta reach out to them I hope they're
okay
you know that maybe this is astonishing

(01:01:51):
amount of video this is their journey
and yeah you're absolutely right and
when it's your livelihood it's easy to
justify I'm just like wait I gotta go to
work I gotta get paid
um and I hope you're having some Joy I
had a I had a moment
we were in our big shop we were just
running at 100 miles an hour yeah at a
moment that I remember very clearly now
my a friend of mine was in town we were

(01:02:12):
building my Ghostbusters there's proton
uh he
he had the molds and got so he had done
a lot of the work and we were cranking
this thing out okay and we built that
proton pack in less than a week we built
the proton pack filmed and edited the
video in less than a week and as we put
this thing together he goes man we did

(01:02:33):
this fast usually takes six months
I was like oh oh is that is that so
yeah that was kind of hard to realize I
was like maybe
our paces
so can I can I share it by the way yeah

(01:02:54):
my mom my mom made this mug this is
where Ruth Bader gives her one she's a
Potter wow and she's got a little studio
and she's really tired she got a little
studio and she made these a bunch of
these Ruth Bader kids bear monkeys when
she passed away
[Music]
RBD passed away and that's the uh the
The Descent caller in in Pottery glaze
form over that's right over the course

(01:03:16):
of the uh uh the yeah rbg's uh
quintessential descent caller uh very
cool so obviously you come from a very
artistic family in multimedia and we
didn't even get into this but you
haven't uh this is something near and
dear to me because I have identical
twins you are an identical twin and I
have met your brother and he is an
awesome dude just like you uh and and it

(01:03:39):
is awesome that you guys have everyone
attractive medium yeah
oh yeah
and he was uh he was a a superstar at
DragonCon a lot of people went up to him
to tell him how much they enjoyed his
videos
I'll bet that never gets old he did a
funny little bit too where he did an

(01:03:59):
instructional video on how to cosplay as
Bill Duran and uh it was well done go
look that up if you get a chance uh
really funny guy um but it was
interesting because it's like I you guys
are very you know different in a lot of
ways but uh uh it's nice that you guys
share you know your love of Cosplay and
uh uh and that and and so at least it's

(01:04:20):
an excuse for you guys to get together
and do some cool stuff every uh every so
often yeah
um man Bill we could go on forever we've
already gone a little bit long I wanna I
wanna devote just a little little extra

(01:04:41):
time you you tease I think we've gotten
most the way through your Arc which is
good and I think this was a good way of
kind of doing it here we are and we've
we've learned some little nuggets on the
way we're gonna have to have you back at
some point because there's just so much
meat on this bone
uh but uh I'm wondering if you can tell
so this new Venture you said you get
you're leaning more into 3D printing

(01:05:01):
you're getting more into that which is
which is cool you said a lot of prop
Builders are resistant to that now it
sounds like you're embracing it do you
have a name for this Venture where can
people find it what do we what do we get
um sure and by the way the prop making
compute Community has fully embraced 3D
printing no no one is hesitating anymore

(01:05:24):
um which is exciting for me except for
Beverly get Beverly Beverly needs to get
on board with 3D printing more anyway oh
yeah yeah yeah
um uh the new thing is not it's not a
proper costume thing um what I want to
do is I want to make 3D printable kits
the sort of thing where you print all
the pieces then you have the experience
of putting them together
um I love putting together Lego kits or

(01:05:46):
model kits and that's kind of the
experience that we want to deliver okay
um yeah we do have a name for it there's
no we we don't have anywhere to follow
yet we we got the website and everything
there's nothing there yet but it's
called Gizmo thrill so Gizmo thrill all
one word okay yeah and right now we're
just we're we're laying the foundation
we're we're um putting together

(01:06:09):
launch it we have a bunch of stuff to
offer
um and the idea is like I was saying
before we want to have something that is
more of a um a passive in
yep
so the thing right

(01:06:31):
and make us having to put stuff in a box
or continue to to deliver stuff yeah
um so we're we're designing
um a campaign we're probably going to go
with printables.com the prusa machine uh
or website for
good choice

(01:06:52):
and uh like I said we there's no there's
no sight yet for it but that's that's
kind of the idea to have a reoccurring
thing where we deliver one of these kits
per month kind of like the way keto
Works where you get a thing in the mail
and you get to put it together only this
is all just 3D printed if you have
filament and a machine you can just get

(01:07:12):
the kit and put it together yourself you
know I've got nieces and nephews now who
would really love getting a little thing
a little toy to put together
uh once per month so that's kind of kind
of the the experience that we want to
deliver something that you might have
fun putting together with your kids yeah
yeah I I you know I've been calling this
uh and this is just something I'm work

(01:07:34):
shopping but just the the term and maybe
somebody else has said this too but the
the idea of experiential making where uh
you know the the make itself is the
journey is the reward and we've seen
some of that in the past whether it's in
the actual building of your 3D printer
through like you know you you want to
learn the process this robotics that's
why I think Bruce has been so successful

(01:07:54):
over the years gives people an
understanding of like what actually goes
into the technology uh I know I've built
many a printer with my kids and then
we've done pro and then there's just so
much amazing high quality content coming
out day after day and more platforms
than ever you mentioned printables which
is a huge one but obviously uh you know

(01:08:16):
we're familiar with others things and uh
new companies are coming up with their
their own and some are successful some
aren't but but as a Creator it's awesome
to see that you have these options and
have these uh other funnels for uh your
your content and revenue generation
which is which is Big obviously it makes
you guys sustainable and um you showed

(01:08:39):
me some uh some stuff early on and when
we were last together in uh at Proto
pasta a couple months ago uh can I talk
about the the model you were showing off
there yeah yeah so I I don't know if it
was intended to be an homage to Banshee
I think you said that it it kind of was
but in the 3D printing space there's a

(01:09:01):
small model boat that is often used for
benchmarking we call it benchy and it is
probably the most prolific most most 3D
printed thing in the history of 3D
printing uh I don't know if if there's
anything else that could compete with
that but you had come up with just such
a great boat model that Harkens to

(01:09:23):
benchy that that has all these great
little working parts and print and I
think you were even employing some print
and place stuff and you know things that
really show off the the things that a 3D
printer can do that you can't Fab in any
other way so there we go I got a I got a
photo of it on my phone there is look at
that guys so if you're if you're tuning
in he's got a picture of it here what
what is it called do we have a name for

(01:09:43):
it
oh it's scooter scooter the tugboat
scooter I just like I grew up I grew up
uh boating sailing boats and everything
so I just really like boats yeah uh but
yeah the it's multiple pieces so you can
print each piece in a different color if
you want uh and then you have the
experience of putting them together
there's a little
um a little crane on the back with a

(01:10:05):
chain and a little crank to move it the
the propeller spins the
tiller spins the door opens I want
things to build things that have moving
parts
so it's not just attic after all done
with it and I've tested it too I gave it
to my my nephews and and they love
playing with a little crank I loved
playing with it man it was it was really
cool yeah

(01:10:31):
for people to go um check out and play
with to see if they want to jump on
board with what we're doing yeah and we
have a ton of other ideas like that
just fun fun those are more like desktop
size uh toys or models
um
and uh and that's the stuff I want to

(01:10:53):
design that's I wanna I love replicating
stuff obviously but I wanna I wanna
experiment with designing my own stuff
especially things with mechanical moving
parts that just that gets Mike that's
what I think about when I go when I'm
trying to fall asleep I think about
designing mechanical things in my head
that's what that's what lulls me to
sleep I love it yeah you can only be a
cover band for so long before you want

(01:11:14):
to Branch out and start writing your own
hit hit music and hits they will be my
friend I will tell you that uh you guys
really need to go check out like I said
if you want a teaser of things to come
you can go see kind of some of their
past work on punish pops punishpops.com
obviously I expect fully that we will
when you are ready with this uh new
Gizmo thrill Venture uh you know

(01:11:36):
whatever we can do to help shine a light
on that of course and uh uh but you know
you guys have quite a a history Rich
history of of uh top quality stuff and
and a good name uh to write about so I
have no doubt that you'll be successful
no matter where you go with it and I'm
glad to hear that it's sustainable and
bringing you Joy at the same time

(01:11:58):
um
that's the goal I think that's a great
place to close for today Bill thank you
so much for your time I know you're a
busy dude and uh I I love this I guess I
want to leave you with one last question
too because you mentioned you did a
podcast for a while it did what
eventually LED you away from it was just
the time commitment or you're not

(01:12:18):
getting joy out of it anymore like what
made the Pod run its course
we when we moved into that big shop
um live streaming was just we didn't
have time for it and it was the first
thing to cut so that's really what it
was it was it was just a time thing
interesting you can't do you can't do
all you can't stop how you want to do

(01:12:39):
all the stuff I know I know it's cool
stuff to do but you can't do it all
yeah yeah you you're I think you got a
good head on your shoulders you got to
be a little selective about it but I
think you're also smart about finding
those things that you create your own
sales funnels and your ability to Brand
yourself to right and so I think there's
value in having your face out there in

(01:13:00):
front of people uh in combination with
the talent of the the stuff that you
make but you gotta pick and choose like
you said so I look forward to seeing
more from what uh the both of you have
to uh uh offer thank you for joining us
again uh if you've stayed with us this
long thank you so much for tuning for
having me yeah man uh looking forward to

(01:13:21):
seeing you again soon obviously give my
best to Brit and uh some pets to the
cats and I look forward to being up
there and hopefully you could do all
that myself uh soon thank you guys for
tuning in I wish everybody a happy
Friday weekend and we encourage you to
tune in Next Friday now next Friday is
special because we're gonna be at the
East Coast rep rap Festival doing a live

(01:13:43):
a lot live recording uh with my good
friend Andrew from 3D gloops so uh
please be sure to tune in to that if I'm
not even gonna see you there so uh until
look at that Bill's got his gloop right
there I hope you I hope you're glooping
all the things together uh Shameless
plug right there
Bill you're amazing brother thank you so

(01:14:05):
much uh stay right there I'm gonna sign
off of the stream and then we'll say our
our project advice uh everybody Tata
enjoy your Friday we'll catch you on the
next maker that money bye-bye
uh oh good good question