March 17, 2024 • 32 mins
In the latest episode of 'Making It Happen', our podcast tailored for budding performers, we explore Broadway artist Curtis Holland's journey in the performing arts. From his initial steps at arts schools and dance companies, to making the top 20 on FOX's So You Think You Can Dance television show, to his successful career on Broadway, Curtis reveals the trials and triumphs of his path.
Worthwhile for performers at all levels, this eye-opening discussion also dives into the nuances between competitive and recreational dance spaces, and how each contributes to a performer's skill set. Tune in for an honest look into the performing arts industry.
Drawing upon Curtis's experiences, we explore different ways to climb professional ladders and how persistence, individual growth, and learning are key.
Subscribe to 'Making It Happen' to stay updated with more inspiring stories and a realistic reflection of the performing arts industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Making It Happen, a career in the performing arts where we discuss
how to break into the performing arts industry for yourself or your child, teen, or young adult.
Guests include professionals who are passionate and share my vision of helping
talented individuals land professional representation and have successful careers in the arts.
My name is Leesa Csolak and I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
(00:27):
a career in the performing arts, having helped hundreds of clients break into
the performing arts business on stage, including Broadway, in films,
television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
For more information, you can check out all the ways that you can benefit from
my courses, my how-to videos, my live seminars, my free weekly newsletters,
and free guides. Go to lbctalent.com.
(00:49):
My guest today is Curtis Holland.
Hi, Curtis. How are you? I'm good. How are you?
I'm so good, and I'm so excited that you're here. I know we've been talking
about this for like a year.
And I'm glad that we were able to make it work.
And I appreciate your time today because I know you're starting something really
big tomorrow, but we'll talk about that later.
(01:12):
So yeah, so we're here to share with parents of talented kids and teens and
to share with young adults who are possibly in college, graduated,
you know, in the performing arts.
Maybe they aren't going to going through the collegiate program type thing,
and they're are just heading into this space of being a performer.
And they might be people who are in various cities wishing to be working professionally
(01:38):
and being able to make a living doing this.
And they might be lost or they're not sure what to do next.
And they haven't been able to really land where they possibly needed to land at this point.
So we want to share all of the inner secrets of of the industry.
But what we really want to know, you are definitely a highly acclaimed Broadway performer.
(02:02):
And I think you have a lot to share about your journey.
I'm not going to give too much away. I'm going to let you talk about that.
So yeah, if you could kind of share when things started for you and where,
you know, when was that time in your life when you knew performing was going to be a career path.
(02:26):
I am not sure that my answer to when I knew that being a performer was going
to be my career path is a straight shot because I went to a performing arts
middle school. I went to a magnet middle school, a magnet high school.
And while I was a child, my father also owned a dance studio where my mother
(02:48):
and he taught me how to dance.
They taught me ballet, tap, jazz, hip hop. So I was immersed in the arts from
a very, very, very young age.
And when you are immersed in the arts, it's kind of a given or expected that
your trajectory is that you want to be on Broadway.
Or if you are a boisterous kid, people say, oh my gosh, put him on Broadway.
(03:13):
He needs something to do. He has so much energy.
He just seems so destined. And when actually I was just bossy and full out.
So, you know, but I genuinely think that I went through seasons where I just
started to believe that it was what I was supposed to do because that was kind of the path.
(03:35):
And so i so i
was dancing and and performing and doing all
these things through elementary school middle school high
school i was dancing seven eight hours a week and then i would go in middle
school i would go to school we would have theater class then we would have after
(03:56):
school theater practice and then i would go back and i would dance for more
hours and same thing at high school So I was just immersed in it,
immersed in it, immersed in it.
And then I also decided to go to college for something more practical because that was my parents'.
Desire for me at the time was to get a practical degree, like something that
(04:18):
did not have anything to do with the arts.
If you want to do the arts after you finish your degree, that is fine.
If you want to move to New York after, that is fine.
But just get a degree first in something practical.
Which, more on that later.
And remind me. Remind me about that. I will.
So I went to school for sound design and audio engineering at Middle Tennessee
(04:44):
State University in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
If you're in Nashville, don't quote me. If you're in Tennessee and you know
the MTSU, don't quote me.
But I feel like it's about 30, 25, 30 minutes away from Nashville and 44 hours,
four hours away from Memphis.
(05:05):
This so i went there for college
and i went there for sound design started
my program the fall of 2012 and i did
well and i liked it i was mostly doing my prereqs but
i still wanted to dance and do a hobby and
at this point i'm still not like oh my gosh i want to be on broadway obviously
i'm like i'm thinking of just getting a
(05:26):
practical job and having a college experience too because
i'm away from home i am experiencing kind
of the world for the first time like this is my first time being on my own
my first time having new
friends for the first time in my life probably since i was
you know born or at least from high school
like i've had the same group of people around me so i'm one
(05:46):
of people having a blast doing all these things and i find out about this dance
troupe up there that they have called mpac m-p-a-c again don't quote me but
it's either murfreesboro's Performing Arts Company or Middle Tennessee Performing Arts Company.
I can't remember, but I love you all just the same if you're watching.
(06:09):
And so I joined that group and it satiated my desire to keep dancing because
performance had become such a part of my life.
And I'm just thinking about this now, but it was such a routine part of my life
and something that I bonded over with friends that.
When I didn't have it, it felt like a different world.
(06:30):
And it was nice to be able to include that normalcy back into my life again.
During the second semester of school, I had already been a part of MPAC for one semester.
And during the second semester, one of the girls comes up to me and says,
during rehearsals or something,
it would be a month, two months in, And hey, Curtis, I am going to Memphis this
(06:54):
or in, I think, maybe let's pick a number, maybe two weeks.
Like I'm going to Memphis soon because So You Think You Can Dance is holding auditions.
And I think you should come with me.
And I said, okay, great. And for some reason, I didn't really even think too much of it.
I wasn't in this is my big break moment. A lot of my career has not been,
(07:18):
this is my big break moment.
It's kind of been stumbling into things.
And again, we can talk more about that later. I feel like it'll probably wrap
what I'm trying to say. We'll wrap up later, but we decided to go.
We practice. She did hip hop and I did tap. And she mentioned to me that she
had gone maybe times before she got maybe twice before to auditions and just
(07:42):
likes to go for the experience.
So I said, yeah, sure. I'll come along and I'll come from the experience.
I end up going to the audition. I get capped after she gets cut and I keep getting
capped and I keep getting capped throughout the day.
And then I get invited to go to Vegas week.
We go to Vegas week. People are getting cut. I'm still there.
People are getting cut. I'm still there.
(08:03):
We're finally down to like the last number before the top 20.
And I find out that I get accepted to be on the show. So I was on season 10
of So You Think You Can Dance, again, more so by happenstance than anything.
And not only by happenstance, because there's a lot of hard work that went into it and a lot of...
(08:24):
That went into it. There are so many aspects of it. Everything was just kind
of happening at the right time. I was in the right place.
Did you consciously choose to audition with tap? Yes.
Okay. Was that your main genre? Do you feel, because I know you as obviously
an amazing tap dancer, but also a phenomenal contemporary dancer,
(08:45):
a phenomenal ballet dancer.
I feel like you could You could have picked any genre.
I had the most success with tap and I was the most competitive out of my skill set with tap.
But I also don't think that was the most conscious decision.
Tap is what I did. Anytime that we had a competition, because we didn't compete
(09:06):
much, we competed for scholarships, we competed for talent shows.
We basically competed for anywhere where dance could be used as a way to gain
scholarships or gain resources for the future.
We competed for. We didn't compete for... Did you do conventions at the time?
Not too many. We only did one every year, the Florida Dance Masters,
(09:28):
and did that for scholarship purposes, and just because we were known in that
community, but we didn't compete.
Much in that only individuals would compete for solo titles,
and then we would go and perform there often, but we never competed.
There was a difference where a lot of our.
Training was performance-based, not competition-based. I love that.
(09:52):
Yeah, it was really helpful. And what I learned, though, for dancers watching
this, every dance space has something to offer.
So if you go to a competition studio, I am so enamored by my friends who have
this insane amount of technique from going to a competition studio.
Sometimes lots more than you get at a recreational studio that is only performance-based
(10:15):
because because stakes are just always higher.
So you're forced to operate on a higher level and to see, for lack of a better
term, the competition around you often.
And so you see what the goalpost is, where without being disrespectful to anyone's
upbringing, including my own,
there's a little bit of big fish syndrome that can happen when you are in a
(10:40):
space where you're not seeing other dancers often.
And even seeing them on Instagram and social media,
I think is different than having to have that energy in the same room with you
and recognize what their work ethic is and compare like their fire versus yours,
I just think is a different journey.
(11:00):
But there is something that being in a recreational space and a performance-based
space does to your spirit that cannot be taught. I am grateful to say that I got that.
And I'm grateful to say that even my friends who grew up in the studio with
me, who don't dance anymore, who don't dance professionally,
let me say, still have this level of discipline,
(11:24):
heart, fun, and camaraderie that...
I attribute to all dance spaces, but I know it was very present in our recreational space.
And the culture, the family, the way that my parents looked after every child
like they were their own in a very specific way.
(11:45):
And again, it is not exclusive to studios that do not compete because I know
people who compete who say, I have the same experience.
I definitely felt just as loved, just as nurtured, just as cared about,
just as looked after, and just as much that my teachers have my best interest
(12:06):
at heart as any other studio.
And I think after working in competitive spaces.
We have more time to sit down with a piece of music and figure out what it means,
understand it more and like get underneath layers rather than just producing a dance.
(12:27):
Both have a really great space, and I am so, again, in awe of people who can produce.
And I've had to learn how to produce quickly in being in this space.
It's like the difference between concert dance versus other spaces that you
(12:48):
would work professionally with.
I've interviewed a lot of concert dance choreographers, and many of them,
when we talk about their process, the process is very different from someone
who was hired to choreograph the Tonys.
Oh, yeah. choreograph you know what I'm saying like because
there's there's the budget and the limitations and all of
(13:10):
that and it's a very different world so what you're describing kind
of feels to me a little bit like those differences when you get to a professional
level you know and it more time in the in the creative space is always all the
things you just mentioned you know what I mean even as as an adult artist,
(13:30):
being in that creative space is everything.
Like for me, I love the process so much.
And the actual performance was just, I don't even know if I would call it icing on the cake.
It was wonderful to perform, but the magic is happening in the room.
Where the creation is going on and where the collaboration is going on.
(13:54):
You know what I mean? And in your school, obviously your parents were very passionate
about what they decided to do with their lives.
And they were willing to give all of that time that was necessary to give you all of that.
And as you had said, to mimic what you said, many competition schools are the
same. They do the same. They function in that way.
(14:17):
Others, not so much. So, you know, you kind of have to find if you're a parent
out there and you're thinking about, okay, my child needs dance, where do we go?
I mean, the basic is they've got to learn technique, you know?
So I always tell people, find a school that's going to teach proper technique.
That's going to be, you know, you're gonna have teachers there that have either
worked in the industry or are very passionate about what they're doing and have
(14:40):
all of that background so that your child isn't learning improper technique.
But beyond that, I would think it's just a personal choice as to whether or
not you want to be involved in the competition.
But I do agree with you completely about the stakes that are involved constantly
and how competition dance and dance schools in general,
when I think about when I first opened my performing arts schools back in, oh my gosh,
(15:06):
1970 something, something. No, 1980s.
Do you know what I'm saying? It was a different space. It was a different world.
Now, So You Think You Can Dance, I think, made a huge difference in the amount
of children dancing, in the amount of male dancers dancing,
and it gave support to the industry, very much so.
(15:29):
Though, you know, but so let's, let's go back to when you were really young,
were you taking class just because that was your life? That was what you were surrounded by.
And in that young age, and the reason I'm asking is a lot of parents ask about
how do I determine if my child is ready?
Like, how do I determine if they're being successful in the space?
(15:51):
Like, do you have any any thoughts on how you
felt when you were how far back can
you remember age eight nine ten like how
far back do you remember being in the room further three four
i was in the room at two i was out but
again i am coming from a specific space where
i had to be at the studio all the
(16:13):
time i mean that's why you and for everyone watching kevin so like is my best
friend and but that's why Kevin and I get along so well is because we have this
very similar upbringing and this very similar way of looking at dance because
we've been in this space all our lives.
And many studio babies who I know have this same type of vibe about them where.
(16:39):
The creative space is just home because we've been around it since we were actually
born. So it's not, it's just our couch.
It's just our sofa. I was assimilating things at such an early age just because, again, I'm around it.
So by the time I was three, four, I was in the back of my parents' classes twirling around.
(17:01):
So the version of when you're ready, it's almost like a little sensei,
Mr. Miyagi, if you will, of the child will tell you when they're ready.
And there are also, something's inclined me to say this. There are so many different
spaces of dance that your child or you, a child, can occupy.
Like you don't have to go to the ballet school and get this training.
(17:25):
You don't have to, you can go to your musical theater camp and say that I dance
for an hour a week and learn something from it because my trajectory is my trajectory.
And I'm in the spaces because of the bring room that I have,
but you will end up in the spaces where you're supposed to because of whatever
you're working on and they're not meant to be the same.
(17:49):
And everyone's kind of ratio of dance to theater to boys is simply different
based on their environment, how they grow up, what they're inspired by.
If you're not moved by dancing like and
you know that you only need to do it for you know the purpose
of getting ready for work the way that you approach it and how much you approach
(18:13):
it is simply going to be different and like there's only so much you can do
to change that and so i'm a big proponent of number one do what you love number
two train everything else in a very sensible way.
And then after that, the chips are just going to fall where they must.
That's a wonderful way of putting all of that, because it's so very true that people,
(18:37):
especially I think high school students that are interested in doing this as
a career, I think they get concerned about where their abilities lie regarding the three areas.
And they shouldn't at that point, they should enjoy what they're doing and certainly
Certainly seek out training if that's something that works for your family dynamic,
(18:58):
your financial constraints, if any, your time constraints, if any.
Everybody's life is different.
And certainly moving through the process and starting to get more serious about
it, things change a little bit because your focus changes.
But I agree totally with everything that you said. And you said it so simply,
which is incredible. Thank you for that.
(19:20):
Do you know what I mean? In a way that everyone can really understand because
you are going to land where you're supposed to land at the end of the game anyway.
Yeah. And so at this point is when I stop and I say two things.
Number one, I'm obviously speaking from a space. I did not go to college for musical theater.
And I have two thoughts on that.
(19:40):
There are times when I wished that I went to school for musical theater.
And that is because, and my friends who have gone to college state this much
better than I'm about to.
And I'm about to paraphrase a little bit from theirs, mixed with what I know
myself. But the way that they prepare you to audition and the way that they
prepare you for what the world, quote unquote, is, is immeasurable.
(20:07):
They get your book ready. They get you in classes. The amount of classes and
the amount of training that you're doing, your chops are just thick.
You're just ready to go at all times. You come out of there a machine.
And it's really cool to watch some of my friends just come out and book and
(20:28):
just come out of the gate swinging.
So they're coming out of the gate swinging from a very technical space. space.
I came out of the gate swinging from a place of joy, hunger,
and the willingness to learn that was not tarnished by professors telling me
that I need to look a certain way or that I need to be a certain thing.
(20:50):
College kids don't come for me, but there was this originality.
And I've heard this from my friends as well. So that's why I'm saying it y'all,
but there's this originality that was not stripped away from me.
And this uniqueness that when I walk into the room, I wasn't quite as polished by everybody else,
but it made everybody lean in because it's not as often that they see this type
(21:15):
of unpolished thing and this fire that hasn't been as snuffed out yet.
But you mainly find in people who are just getting to the city,
regardless of their age or 19 years old. I see it in a 19-year-old that I know
right now in love with all of my heart.
And when he's in the audition room, and he's in college, but even on top of
(21:40):
that, there's just this fire.
There's just this throw-anything-at-me energy that makes people lean in.
And at the end of the day, we forget that we are in the business of making people
lean in. So if you make the fellow auditionees or the people who are auditioning
you lean in, you're already doing what they want you to do.
(22:03):
And that means that you can do it for a whole audience. there is
a space for if you go to school if you don't go to school there is way too many
ways to get on broadway or get to the top that and we all know those are in
quotation marks because it's
not the end of the world right okay but there's a way to to get to these,
(22:26):
benchmarks that you want and everyone's is
different some people went to college for
musical theater graduated got their masters in musical
theater ended up on broadway some people went to school for sound design went
on a tv show and then from that tv show came back to new york and started the
whole grind ended up on broadway some people went to school for a little bit and And in the middle of,
(22:52):
for musical theater, in the middle of their training,
got their first job, never went back.
Some people are legends in our community now because they went to school,
got their first job in like their first, second semester,
always tried to go back to school and never could go back to school because
they always kept booking.
(23:13):
I know somebody who, and I'm not going to say his name because I would botch
his credits and how long he's been out. But I think he did.
I'm going to probably exaggerate and say he did maybe six Broadway shows before
he came back and got and finished his undergrad degree.
Went back and finished it. You know what I'm talking about? I know who it is. Yeah.
(23:34):
But it's like, I think it's a number like that, but that is amazing and legendary.
And it shows that there were so many ways. There were so many ways to do this.
I've had people tell me every version of the story, save your money.
Don't go to college, just invest in training, go to college, get this information.
(23:55):
Just don't lose your heart in the middle of it. And don't let these people break
you down. Know your worth.
Yes. Those are kind of the first two houses that I will start from and then
recognize inside of that, there are going to be many iterations and do not beat
yourself up for whatever iteration yours turns out to be. Yeah.
That is so true in so many ways.
(24:16):
I am so with you. You have no idea. We are on the same page, Curtis. Yeah.
I know we are. I do know we are.
And so I went on the show. I went on So You Think.
Then after we finished the show i went
on tour with the show so we toured the united states and
(24:36):
canada and then after that you know when you're on so you think you basically
at this point you're with a whole bunch of people your age we're like okay we're
in the mix now people know our names what are we doing next we're going to la
are we going to new york and that's basically the big question are you going
to la or are you going to new york a lot of them went to la it was closer A lot of them are amazing,
like, commercial dancers and wanted to explore that life. A few people and I...
(25:03):
Went to New York. And that's kind of when I started the grind.
I got here in January. I got here January 15th, 2014.
So my 10-year anniversary of being in New York City just passed.
Congratulations. Thank you very much. It was a big thing. My dad came up and
(25:23):
celebrated with me, and it was really nice.
We went to get some food where my first apartment was.
And one of the places where i used
to eat all the time it was just really sweet i got here january 15th
2014 and i told
myself i'm going to try this out for six
(25:44):
months if i don't get anything in six months i'm going
back home and i will get back into
school and i'll figure everything else out so you
were only going to give yourself six months i was only going to
give myself six months that's not a lot curtis y'all
that's not a lot not a lot but that's not a lot i
was 19 oh my goodness okay 19 and
(26:06):
so i said six months
let's let's start by first month obviously i
had no bites because nobody knew who i
was and i had i got
my agent through basically i had
two different different channels working for me one
this one of the dancers who used
(26:27):
to dance with my father was represented by this agency
and put my name into the hat at the same time that i just finished so you think
and they were already looking at me i think i started i was doing the reaching
out and like to all the different agencies and they were like we actually just
heard about you and we want to represent you as well so come in let's talk about
about it and i am represented with clear your talent group.
(26:51):
And I'm having a wonderful time with them.
And what I'm about to say, I think applies to every agency. It just takes time.
Relationship with your agent takes time.
And I didn't know that at first. At first, as soon as I get an agent,
I'm like, okay, so I'm supposed to have a job now.
And it's just not how it works. I still had to go to a whole bunch of open calls.
(27:15):
I still had to do the grind. And a lot of the things I was doing on my own at
first, and I was wondering why I wasn't getting jobs from my agents and why
I wasn't getting auditions and things.
And it wasn't until I began to find out that sometimes your agent only acts
(27:36):
as a liaison between casting and you.
So if casting doesn't know who you are they
can't talk to your agent to say hey get curtis
into the room so the more that you
just go out into open calls first and you're
just out there like getting your name out there and now being 10 years in the
game the game notices when somebody new walks into the room oh yes the gang
(28:01):
knows the gang sees people often
and so when somebody new comes in and and somebody fierce new comes in.
We're all like, who's that? It just happened to us recently.
A new batch of performers are coming in, and we're all like.
Who's that? And where to start to get out around them, along my friend group,
(28:23):
who is the next group of people to kind of be in charge in the next 30 years, give us some time.
You know, we're talking about, which means that every tier is talking about
these young performers.
And so getting in front, just getting in front of people is very important.
And then from there, my agents started to send me out on more things.
(28:44):
I started getting more callbacks, but I would still never get any bites because
I had to update my resume. I had to get new headshots.
And as soon as I sat down, maybe around three months of being into New York,
I sat down with my agent kind of like, what's happening? Like, why am I not booking?
And they had all this. They were like, well, you know, look at this.
(29:07):
Look at that. Look at this. Look at that. Look at getting some new headshots.
Look at some voice lessons. Look at all these things. And things that,
again, if you go to school, a lot of this will be chopped out of the way for
you. You'll have this handled.
If you choose not to go to school, make sure those headshots are together.
Make sure your resume, even it's just not going to be much at the time,
(29:29):
but put something on there.
Like, figure it out. Because we're also in a space where we get to back up ourselves
in real time with our performance.
So do not be too disheartened when you don't have anything on your resume,
go in there, crush the audition and let your work speak for itself.
And then your resume will just start to bulk up. This is coming from somebody
(29:52):
who came into this with no resume and now has five Broadway shows on it.
So like your resume builds, it just builds because your work when you're good
and you do what you do speaks for itself. That's it.
Very true. Oh, I love talking about this. Very true.
So I was here for maybe seven months before I basically got my first performance gig.
(30:20):
And until then, my hustle job was working at dance competitions,
rolling out Marley, putting it up, checking. Really? You did? Oh, that's amazing.
And that was on the weekends, right? So that's a perfect mix of what you can
do to make some really great money. Long hours.
Long hours. Long hours. Long hours. Like in different states,
(30:44):
driving, like doing the whole thing.
But you're young. You have the energy. You'll be okay.
Do it now. Do it now. Yeah. When your back hurts.
And it just paid the bills. And again, there was something about all of this that was so just innate.
It was like this is what has i have to make
money and i'm not sure whether this
(31:06):
fell into my lap or whether i was conscious at the time oh oh i need to make
some money how do i go about making some money but things just happened in a
way that i grabbed onto when the opportunity came so take with that word what
you will y'all but you know it's almost like working out or like like even dance training,
at first, it's not about doing the best thing for your career.
(31:30):
It's about doing something.
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(31:50):
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Welcome to Making It Happen, a career in the performing arts where we discuss
how to break into the performing arts industry for yourself or your child, teen, or young adult.
Guests include professionals who are passionate and share my vision of helping
talented individuals land professional representation and have successful careers in the arts.
My name is Leesa Csolak and I am the CEO and founder of Making It Happen,
(00:27):
a career in the performing arts, having helped hundreds of clients break into
the performing arts business on stage, including Broadway, in films,
television, commercial work, and more.
This podcast is supplemental to my groundbreaking online courses.
For more information, you can check out all the ways that you can benefit from
my courses, my how-to videos, my live seminars, my free weekly newsletters,
and free guides. Go to lbctalent.com.
(00:49):
My guest today is Curtis Holland.
Hi, Curtis. How are you? I'm good. How are you?
I'm so good, and I'm so excited that you're here. I know we've been talking
about this for like a year.
And I'm glad that we were able to make it work.
And I appreciate your time today because I know you're starting something really
big tomorrow, but we'll talk about that later.
(01:12):
So yeah, so we're here to share with parents of talented kids and teens and
to share with young adults who are possibly in college, graduated,
you know, in the performing arts.
Maybe they aren't going to going through the collegiate program type thing,
and they're are just heading into this space of being a performer.
And they might be people who are in various cities wishing to be working professionally
(01:38):
and being able to make a living doing this.
And they might be lost or they're not sure what to do next.
And they haven't been able to really land where they possibly needed to land at this point.
So we want to share all of the inner secrets of of the industry.
But what we really want to know, you are definitely a highly acclaimed Broadway performer.
(02:02):
And I think you have a lot to share about your journey.
I'm not going to give too much away. I'm going to let you talk about that.
So yeah, if you could kind of share when things started for you and where,
you know, when was that time in your life when you knew performing was going to be a career path.
(02:26):
I am not sure that my answer to when I knew that being a performer was going
to be my career path is a straight shot because I went to a performing arts
middle school. I went to a magnet middle school, a magnet high school.
And while I was a child, my father also owned a dance studio where my mother
(02:48):
and he taught me how to dance.
They taught me ballet, tap, jazz, hip hop. So I was immersed in the arts from
a very, very, very young age.
And when you are immersed in the arts, it's kind of a given or expected that
your trajectory is that you want to be on Broadway.
Or if you are a boisterous kid, people say, oh my gosh, put him on Broadway.
(03:13):
He needs something to do. He has so much energy.
He just seems so destined. And when actually I was just bossy and full out.
So, you know, but I genuinely think that I went through seasons where I just
started to believe that it was what I was supposed to do because that was kind of the path.
(03:35):
And so i so i
was dancing and and performing and doing all
these things through elementary school middle school high
school i was dancing seven eight hours a week and then i would go in middle
school i would go to school we would have theater class then we would have after
(03:56):
school theater practice and then i would go back and i would dance for more
hours and same thing at high school So I was just immersed in it,
immersed in it, immersed in it.
And then I also decided to go to college for something more practical because that was my parents'.
Desire for me at the time was to get a practical degree, like something that
(04:18):
did not have anything to do with the arts.
If you want to do the arts after you finish your degree, that is fine.
If you want to move to New York after, that is fine.
But just get a degree first in something practical.
Which, more on that later.
And remind me. Remind me about that. I will.
So I went to school for sound design and audio engineering at Middle Tennessee
(04:44):
State University in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
If you're in Nashville, don't quote me. If you're in Tennessee and you know
the MTSU, don't quote me.
But I feel like it's about 30, 25, 30 minutes away from Nashville and 44 hours,
four hours away from Memphis.
(05:05):
This so i went there for college
and i went there for sound design started
my program the fall of 2012 and i did
well and i liked it i was mostly doing my prereqs but
i still wanted to dance and do a hobby and
at this point i'm still not like oh my gosh i want to be on broadway obviously
i'm like i'm thinking of just getting a
(05:26):
practical job and having a college experience too because
i'm away from home i am experiencing kind
of the world for the first time like this is my first time being on my own
my first time having new
friends for the first time in my life probably since i was
you know born or at least from high school
like i've had the same group of people around me so i'm one
(05:46):
of people having a blast doing all these things and i find out about this dance
troupe up there that they have called mpac m-p-a-c again don't quote me but
it's either murfreesboro's Performing Arts Company or Middle Tennessee Performing Arts Company.
I can't remember, but I love you all just the same if you're watching.
(06:09):
And so I joined that group and it satiated my desire to keep dancing because
performance had become such a part of my life.
And I'm just thinking about this now, but it was such a routine part of my life
and something that I bonded over with friends that.
When I didn't have it, it felt like a different world.
(06:30):
And it was nice to be able to include that normalcy back into my life again.
During the second semester of school, I had already been a part of MPAC for one semester.
And during the second semester, one of the girls comes up to me and says,
during rehearsals or something,
it would be a month, two months in, And hey, Curtis, I am going to Memphis this
(06:54):
or in, I think, maybe let's pick a number, maybe two weeks.
Like I'm going to Memphis soon because So You Think You Can Dance is holding auditions.
And I think you should come with me.
And I said, okay, great. And for some reason, I didn't really even think too much of it.
I wasn't in this is my big break moment. A lot of my career has not been,
(07:18):
this is my big break moment.
It's kind of been stumbling into things.
And again, we can talk more about that later. I feel like it'll probably wrap
what I'm trying to say. We'll wrap up later, but we decided to go.
We practice. She did hip hop and I did tap. And she mentioned to me that she
had gone maybe times before she got maybe twice before to auditions and just
(07:42):
likes to go for the experience.
So I said, yeah, sure. I'll come along and I'll come from the experience.
I end up going to the audition. I get capped after she gets cut and I keep getting
capped and I keep getting capped throughout the day.
And then I get invited to go to Vegas week.
We go to Vegas week. People are getting cut. I'm still there.
People are getting cut. I'm still there.
(08:03):
We're finally down to like the last number before the top 20.
And I find out that I get accepted to be on the show. So I was on season 10
of So You Think You Can Dance, again, more so by happenstance than anything.
And not only by happenstance, because there's a lot of hard work that went into it and a lot of...
(08:24):
That went into it. There are so many aspects of it. Everything was just kind
of happening at the right time. I was in the right place.
Did you consciously choose to audition with tap? Yes.
Okay. Was that your main genre? Do you feel, because I know you as obviously
an amazing tap dancer, but also a phenomenal contemporary dancer,
(08:45):
a phenomenal ballet dancer.
I feel like you could You could have picked any genre.
I had the most success with tap and I was the most competitive out of my skill set with tap.
But I also don't think that was the most conscious decision.
Tap is what I did. Anytime that we had a competition, because we didn't compete
(09:06):
much, we competed for scholarships, we competed for talent shows.
We basically competed for anywhere where dance could be used as a way to gain
scholarships or gain resources for the future.
We competed for. We didn't compete for... Did you do conventions at the time?
Not too many. We only did one every year, the Florida Dance Masters,
(09:28):
and did that for scholarship purposes, and just because we were known in that
community, but we didn't compete.
Much in that only individuals would compete for solo titles,
and then we would go and perform there often, but we never competed.
There was a difference where a lot of our.
Training was performance-based, not competition-based. I love that.
(09:52):
Yeah, it was really helpful. And what I learned, though, for dancers watching
this, every dance space has something to offer.
So if you go to a competition studio, I am so enamored by my friends who have
this insane amount of technique from going to a competition studio.
Sometimes lots more than you get at a recreational studio that is only performance-based
(10:15):
because because stakes are just always higher.
So you're forced to operate on a higher level and to see, for lack of a better
term, the competition around you often.
And so you see what the goalpost is, where without being disrespectful to anyone's
upbringing, including my own,
there's a little bit of big fish syndrome that can happen when you are in a
(10:40):
space where you're not seeing other dancers often.
And even seeing them on Instagram and social media,
I think is different than having to have that energy in the same room with you
and recognize what their work ethic is and compare like their fire versus yours,
I just think is a different journey.
(11:00):
But there is something that being in a recreational space and a performance-based
space does to your spirit that cannot be taught. I am grateful to say that I got that.
And I'm grateful to say that even my friends who grew up in the studio with
me, who don't dance anymore, who don't dance professionally,
let me say, still have this level of discipline,
(11:24):
heart, fun, and camaraderie that...
I attribute to all dance spaces, but I know it was very present in our recreational space.
And the culture, the family, the way that my parents looked after every child
like they were their own in a very specific way.
(11:45):
And again, it is not exclusive to studios that do not compete because I know
people who compete who say, I have the same experience.
I definitely felt just as loved, just as nurtured, just as cared about,
just as looked after, and just as much that my teachers have my best interest
(12:06):
at heart as any other studio.
And I think after working in competitive spaces.
We have more time to sit down with a piece of music and figure out what it means,
understand it more and like get underneath layers rather than just producing a dance.
(12:27):
Both have a really great space, and I am so, again, in awe of people who can produce.
And I've had to learn how to produce quickly in being in this space.
It's like the difference between concert dance versus other spaces that you
(12:48):
would work professionally with.
I've interviewed a lot of concert dance choreographers, and many of them,
when we talk about their process, the process is very different from someone
who was hired to choreograph the Tonys.
Oh, yeah. choreograph you know what I'm saying like because
there's there's the budget and the limitations and all of
(13:10):
that and it's a very different world so what you're describing kind
of feels to me a little bit like those differences when you get to a professional
level you know and it more time in the in the creative space is always all the
things you just mentioned you know what I mean even as as an adult artist,
(13:30):
being in that creative space is everything.
Like for me, I love the process so much.
And the actual performance was just, I don't even know if I would call it icing on the cake.
It was wonderful to perform, but the magic is happening in the room.
Where the creation is going on and where the collaboration is going on.
(13:54):
You know what I mean? And in your school, obviously your parents were very passionate
about what they decided to do with their lives.
And they were willing to give all of that time that was necessary to give you all of that.
And as you had said, to mimic what you said, many competition schools are the
same. They do the same. They function in that way.
(14:17):
Others, not so much. So, you know, you kind of have to find if you're a parent
out there and you're thinking about, okay, my child needs dance, where do we go?
I mean, the basic is they've got to learn technique, you know?
So I always tell people, find a school that's going to teach proper technique.
That's going to be, you know, you're gonna have teachers there that have either
worked in the industry or are very passionate about what they're doing and have
(14:40):
all of that background so that your child isn't learning improper technique.
But beyond that, I would think it's just a personal choice as to whether or
not you want to be involved in the competition.
But I do agree with you completely about the stakes that are involved constantly
and how competition dance and dance schools in general,
when I think about when I first opened my performing arts schools back in, oh my gosh,
(15:06):
1970 something, something. No, 1980s.
Do you know what I'm saying? It was a different space. It was a different world.
Now, So You Think You Can Dance, I think, made a huge difference in the amount
of children dancing, in the amount of male dancers dancing,
and it gave support to the industry, very much so.
(15:29):
Though, you know, but so let's, let's go back to when you were really young,
were you taking class just because that was your life? That was what you were surrounded by.
And in that young age, and the reason I'm asking is a lot of parents ask about
how do I determine if my child is ready?
Like, how do I determine if they're being successful in the space?
(15:51):
Like, do you have any any thoughts on how you
felt when you were how far back can
you remember age eight nine ten like how
far back do you remember being in the room further three four
i was in the room at two i was out but
again i am coming from a specific space where
i had to be at the studio all the
(16:13):
time i mean that's why you and for everyone watching kevin so like is my best
friend and but that's why Kevin and I get along so well is because we have this
very similar upbringing and this very similar way of looking at dance because
we've been in this space all our lives.
And many studio babies who I know have this same type of vibe about them where.
(16:39):
The creative space is just home because we've been around it since we were actually
born. So it's not, it's just our couch.
It's just our sofa. I was assimilating things at such an early age just because, again, I'm around it.
So by the time I was three, four, I was in the back of my parents' classes twirling around.
(17:01):
So the version of when you're ready, it's almost like a little sensei,
Mr. Miyagi, if you will, of the child will tell you when they're ready.
And there are also, something's inclined me to say this. There are so many different
spaces of dance that your child or you, a child, can occupy.
Like you don't have to go to the ballet school and get this training.
(17:25):
You don't have to, you can go to your musical theater camp and say that I dance
for an hour a week and learn something from it because my trajectory is my trajectory.
And I'm in the spaces because of the bring room that I have,
but you will end up in the spaces where you're supposed to because of whatever
you're working on and they're not meant to be the same.
(17:49):
And everyone's kind of ratio of dance to theater to boys is simply different
based on their environment, how they grow up, what they're inspired by.
If you're not moved by dancing like and
you know that you only need to do it for you know the purpose
of getting ready for work the way that you approach it and how much you approach
(18:13):
it is simply going to be different and like there's only so much you can do
to change that and so i'm a big proponent of number one do what you love number
two train everything else in a very sensible way.
And then after that, the chips are just going to fall where they must.
That's a wonderful way of putting all of that, because it's so very true that people,
(18:37):
especially I think high school students that are interested in doing this as
a career, I think they get concerned about where their abilities lie regarding the three areas.
And they shouldn't at that point, they should enjoy what they're doing and certainly
Certainly seek out training if that's something that works for your family dynamic,
(18:58):
your financial constraints, if any, your time constraints, if any.
Everybody's life is different.
And certainly moving through the process and starting to get more serious about
it, things change a little bit because your focus changes.
But I agree totally with everything that you said. And you said it so simply,
which is incredible. Thank you for that.
(19:20):
Do you know what I mean? In a way that everyone can really understand because
you are going to land where you're supposed to land at the end of the game anyway.
Yeah. And so at this point is when I stop and I say two things.
Number one, I'm obviously speaking from a space. I did not go to college for musical theater.
And I have two thoughts on that.
(19:40):
There are times when I wished that I went to school for musical theater.
And that is because, and my friends who have gone to college state this much
better than I'm about to.
And I'm about to paraphrase a little bit from theirs, mixed with what I know
myself. But the way that they prepare you to audition and the way that they
prepare you for what the world, quote unquote, is, is immeasurable.
(20:07):
They get your book ready. They get you in classes. The amount of classes and
the amount of training that you're doing, your chops are just thick.
You're just ready to go at all times. You come out of there a machine.
And it's really cool to watch some of my friends just come out and book and
(20:28):
just come out of the gate swinging.
So they're coming out of the gate swinging from a very technical space. space.
I came out of the gate swinging from a place of joy, hunger,
and the willingness to learn that was not tarnished by professors telling me
that I need to look a certain way or that I need to be a certain thing.
(20:50):
College kids don't come for me, but there was this originality.
And I've heard this from my friends as well. So that's why I'm saying it y'all,
but there's this originality that was not stripped away from me.
And this uniqueness that when I walk into the room, I wasn't quite as polished by everybody else,
but it made everybody lean in because it's not as often that they see this type
(21:15):
of unpolished thing and this fire that hasn't been as snuffed out yet.
But you mainly find in people who are just getting to the city,
regardless of their age or 19 years old. I see it in a 19-year-old that I know
right now in love with all of my heart.
And when he's in the audition room, and he's in college, but even on top of
(21:40):
that, there's just this fire.
There's just this throw-anything-at-me energy that makes people lean in.
And at the end of the day, we forget that we are in the business of making people
lean in. So if you make the fellow auditionees or the people who are auditioning
you lean in, you're already doing what they want you to do.
(22:03):
And that means that you can do it for a whole audience. there is
a space for if you go to school if you don't go to school there is way too many
ways to get on broadway or get to the top that and we all know those are in
quotation marks because it's
not the end of the world right okay but there's a way to to get to these,
(22:26):
benchmarks that you want and everyone's is
different some people went to college for
musical theater graduated got their masters in musical
theater ended up on broadway some people went to school for sound design went
on a tv show and then from that tv show came back to new york and started the
whole grind ended up on broadway some people went to school for a little bit and And in the middle of,
(22:52):
for musical theater, in the middle of their training,
got their first job, never went back.
Some people are legends in our community now because they went to school,
got their first job in like their first, second semester,
always tried to go back to school and never could go back to school because
they always kept booking.
(23:13):
I know somebody who, and I'm not going to say his name because I would botch
his credits and how long he's been out. But I think he did.
I'm going to probably exaggerate and say he did maybe six Broadway shows before
he came back and got and finished his undergrad degree.
Went back and finished it. You know what I'm talking about? I know who it is. Yeah.
(23:34):
But it's like, I think it's a number like that, but that is amazing and legendary.
And it shows that there were so many ways. There were so many ways to do this.
I've had people tell me every version of the story, save your money.
Don't go to college, just invest in training, go to college, get this information.
(23:55):
Just don't lose your heart in the middle of it. And don't let these people break
you down. Know your worth.
Yes. Those are kind of the first two houses that I will start from and then
recognize inside of that, there are going to be many iterations and do not beat
yourself up for whatever iteration yours turns out to be. Yeah.
That is so true in so many ways.
(24:16):
I am so with you. You have no idea. We are on the same page, Curtis. Yeah.
I know we are. I do know we are.
And so I went on the show. I went on So You Think.
Then after we finished the show i went
on tour with the show so we toured the united states and
(24:36):
canada and then after that you know when you're on so you think you basically
at this point you're with a whole bunch of people your age we're like okay we're
in the mix now people know our names what are we doing next we're going to la
are we going to new york and that's basically the big question are you going
to la or are you going to new york a lot of them went to la it was closer A lot of them are amazing,
like, commercial dancers and wanted to explore that life. A few people and I...
(25:03):
Went to New York. And that's kind of when I started the grind.
I got here in January. I got here January 15th, 2014.
So my 10-year anniversary of being in New York City just passed.
Congratulations. Thank you very much. It was a big thing. My dad came up and
(25:23):
celebrated with me, and it was really nice.
We went to get some food where my first apartment was.
And one of the places where i used
to eat all the time it was just really sweet i got here january 15th
2014 and i told
myself i'm going to try this out for six
(25:44):
months if i don't get anything in six months i'm going
back home and i will get back into
school and i'll figure everything else out so you
were only going to give yourself six months i was only going to
give myself six months that's not a lot curtis y'all
that's not a lot not a lot but that's not a lot i
was 19 oh my goodness okay 19 and
(26:06):
so i said six months
let's let's start by first month obviously i
had no bites because nobody knew who i
was and i had i got
my agent through basically i had
two different different channels working for me one
this one of the dancers who used
(26:27):
to dance with my father was represented by this agency
and put my name into the hat at the same time that i just finished so you think
and they were already looking at me i think i started i was doing the reaching
out and like to all the different agencies and they were like we actually just
heard about you and we want to represent you as well so come in let's talk about
about it and i am represented with clear your talent group.
(26:51):
And I'm having a wonderful time with them.
And what I'm about to say, I think applies to every agency. It just takes time.
Relationship with your agent takes time.
And I didn't know that at first. At first, as soon as I get an agent,
I'm like, okay, so I'm supposed to have a job now.
And it's just not how it works. I still had to go to a whole bunch of open calls.
(27:15):
I still had to do the grind. And a lot of the things I was doing on my own at
first, and I was wondering why I wasn't getting jobs from my agents and why
I wasn't getting auditions and things.
And it wasn't until I began to find out that sometimes your agent only acts
(27:36):
as a liaison between casting and you.
So if casting doesn't know who you are they
can't talk to your agent to say hey get curtis
into the room so the more that you
just go out into open calls first and you're
just out there like getting your name out there and now being 10 years in the
game the game notices when somebody new walks into the room oh yes the gang
(28:01):
knows the gang sees people often
and so when somebody new comes in and and somebody fierce new comes in.
We're all like, who's that? It just happened to us recently.
A new batch of performers are coming in, and we're all like.
Who's that? And where to start to get out around them, along my friend group,
(28:23):
who is the next group of people to kind of be in charge in the next 30 years, give us some time.
You know, we're talking about, which means that every tier is talking about
these young performers.
And so getting in front, just getting in front of people is very important.
And then from there, my agents started to send me out on more things.
(28:44):
I started getting more callbacks, but I would still never get any bites because
I had to update my resume. I had to get new headshots.
And as soon as I sat down, maybe around three months of being into New York,
I sat down with my agent kind of like, what's happening? Like, why am I not booking?
And they had all this. They were like, well, you know, look at this.
(29:07):
Look at that. Look at this. Look at that. Look at getting some new headshots.
Look at some voice lessons. Look at all these things. And things that,
again, if you go to school, a lot of this will be chopped out of the way for
you. You'll have this handled.
If you choose not to go to school, make sure those headshots are together.
Make sure your resume, even it's just not going to be much at the time,
(29:29):
but put something on there.
Like, figure it out. Because we're also in a space where we get to back up ourselves
in real time with our performance.
So do not be too disheartened when you don't have anything on your resume,
go in there, crush the audition and let your work speak for itself.
And then your resume will just start to bulk up. This is coming from somebody
(29:52):
who came into this with no resume and now has five Broadway shows on it.
So like your resume builds, it just builds because your work when you're good
and you do what you do speaks for itself. That's it.
Very true. Oh, I love talking about this. Very true.
So I was here for maybe seven months before I basically got my first performance gig.
(30:20):
And until then, my hustle job was working at dance competitions,
rolling out Marley, putting it up, checking. Really? You did? Oh, that's amazing.
And that was on the weekends, right? So that's a perfect mix of what you can
do to make some really great money. Long hours.
Long hours. Long hours. Long hours. Like in different states,
(30:44):
driving, like doing the whole thing.
But you're young. You have the energy. You'll be okay.
Do it now. Do it now. Yeah. When your back hurts.
And it just paid the bills. And again, there was something about all of this that was so just innate.
It was like this is what has i have to make
money and i'm not sure whether this
(31:06):
fell into my lap or whether i was conscious at the time oh oh i need to make
some money how do i go about making some money but things just happened in a
way that i grabbed onto when the opportunity came so take with that word what
you will y'all but you know it's almost like working out or like like even dance training,
at first, it's not about doing the best thing for your career.
(31:30):
It's about doing something.
Join me on Sundays at 8 p.m. Eastern. Need more information?
Visit lbctalent.com and follow me on socials at leesacsolak_lbctalent.
By sharing our stories, we can help other talented individuals land the career
(31:50):
of their dreams. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe
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