November 2, 2022 • 57 mins
In the second part of A Conversation With Artists I am joined by artist Libita Sibungu. Our conversation responds to topics raised in Part 1, and further talks of growing up in Cornwall, wildness, granite, dislocation, the subterranean, and writing new narratives for Cornwall.
Libita made a presention at the MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh symposium on Sat 29th October. A recording of this event will be available on the MESKLA website from late November 2022.
Podcast 2 - A Conversation with Artists.
Artists Libita Sibungu, Georgia Gendall, & Liam Jolly share their experiences of growing up in Cornwall & becoming artists. They also talk about how their relationship to Cornwall has shifted over the years and how it plays out in their work.
We had planned to all be in a room together to have this conversation. But we were meeting on one of the hottest days of the year, when a storm brought the first rain for weeks and disrupted rail and road travel and took out some mobile masts. In very Cornish fashion we were disrupted by weather, and we couldn’t all be in the same place, so we recorded the conversation in two parts.
Libita Sibungu currently lives and works in West Cornwall, where she grew up - a daughter to Namibian and English parents, born in the late 1980’s just after the first sight of a birth of a galaxy, and a few years before Namibia's independence. As an interdisciplinary artist, Sibungu works with writing, drawing, performance, photography, print, and sound to build environments that weave decolonial narratives into immersive installations and poetic arrangements. Through collaboration - research is expanded towards a collective experience, inspired by living archives, sonic cartographies and speculative fiction.
Sibungu is the recipient of the 2022 Arts Foundation Future Award, and has presented work with Temple Bar Gallery, Ireland, and Sonsbeek, Netherlands (2021); Somerset House, UK, and Cabaret Voltaire, Zurich (2020). Sibungu’s solo exhibition and ongoing body of work ‘Quantum Ghost’ was presented with Gasworks, and Spike Island, (UK) in 2019.
Part 1 with Liam and Georgia is also available via the project website, and platforms such as Podbean & Spotify.
Please note: These podcasts were recorded in different locations and with a range of equipment. As such the sound quality varies and at times external factors are more present than ideal in the recordings.
Govenek a'm beus hwi dhe omlowenhe goslowes orto/ I hope you enjoy listening
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sovay Berriman (00:00):
Dydh da ha dynnargh pub huni dhe bodkastow
MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh ostyesgenev, Sovay Berriman. Hello
(00:25):
and welcome everyone to theMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh podcasts,
hosted by me Sovay Berriman.MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh is a
multi platform project, usingsculpture making and
conversation to explorecontemporary Cornish cultural
identity. Through workshops,podcasts, a symposium, and an
(00:50):
exhibition. The project invitespeople to share their
experiences of identity andCornwall, and their views on
Cornish culture and itsrelationship to land, language,
heritage, tourism, the Cornishdiaspora, and much, much more.
These podcasts were calledConversations with guests whose
(01:14):
research or lived experiencetouches on the project themes.
The views, thoughts and opinionsexpressed the speaker's own. All
conversations are carried outwith a spirit of generosity and
openness, creating space for thediscussions to twist and turn.
And I'm very grateful to all whohave taken part. This podcast is
(01:41):
recorded in two parts. ArtistsLibita Sibungu, Georgia Gendall,
Liam Jolly and I had planned tobe in a room together to talk
about our relationships withCornwall, but we were meeting on
one of the hottest days of theyear, when a storm brought the
first rain for weeks anddisrupted rail and road travel
(02:03):
and took out some mobile masts.Due to the disruptions we
couldn't all be in the sameplace. So we recorded the
conversation in two parts. Thisis part two, I'm joined by
Libita Sibungu, aninterdisciplinary artist.
Sibungu works with writingdrawing, performance,
(02:23):
photography, print and sound tobuild environments that we
decolonial narratives intoimmersive installations and
poetic arrangements. Sibungu isthe recipient of the 2022 Arts
Foundation feature award. Andshe has presented her work with
Spike Island gasworks andSomerset House in the UK, Temple
(02:46):
Bar gallery, Ireland and Sonsbeek in the Netherlands. Here we
join Libita telling us about herwork and practice.
Libita Sibungu (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, sure. It's constantly shifting.
So let's go with what it istoday. I'm interested in
entangled histories, how weexperience memory, and also
wanting to create spaces for forhealing and catharsis. So I
speak a lot through my personalhistory as a mixed race, African
(03:22):
Celtic, black woman, and myexperiences of growing up as a
person of colour in Cornwall inrural England. And yeah, I work
a lot with sound. I work a lotwith drawings and with analogue
processes.
Sovay Berriman (03:38):
And they have you worked away as an artist.
What's your sort of journey?Yeah, so
Libita Sibungu (03:47):
journey, I guess. I I grew up here in
Cornwall, mainly in Penzance.And then when I was at, you
know, I fled. I think it was,no, no, what did I do? I
actually did a foundation atFalmouth. That was my first
stepping stone, I knew thatthere was a golden ticket out.
(04:09):
And for me, there was only onepath left. And that was three
education. I wasn't primed to goto university, you know, I don't
think it was necessarily afeeling in my family structure.
This is what would happen next,but it just became quite quite
an urgent, like this is the onlyway so yeah. When I went to
(04:29):
Falmouth was my best friend andshout out Nina Royal. And it was
wonderful because there were somany people not from Cornwall
there. So it was like a year ofjust us and all these people
that weren't from Cornwall wasabsolutely like so great. And so
then yeah, it was a steppingstone to go and study in London,
(04:50):
as I'm sure you know, thosepeople do. People go to
university for many reasons, buta part of it is mobility and
that way, a chance to go to a Apart of the country that perhaps
you feel that you couldn'tafford to do so otherwise and,
and then, and then I spent 10years in Bristol, and then have
(05:11):
travelled a bit to SouthernAfrica, mainly Namibia in the
last few years. And now I'mback.
Sovay Berriman (05:19):
So you've heard a bit of Georgia and Liam's
conversation, and they spoke abit about this coming back and
through the workshops, that someare also running, dropping
workshops and conversation aspart of muscular. And a few
people have brought up you'veattended those workshops, sort
of really kind of mixed tensionsaround coming back to Cornwall
(05:43):
and the decision when to do it.And has has that for you.
Libita Sibungu (05:50):
Yeah, I mean, I was one of those that kind of,
like I said, like kind of fledwas absolutely chomping at the
bit, to just see more. There'sgot to be more, there's got to
be some black people somewhere.You know, did it grow up with
the Internet? Come on, where areyou? And so once I was in
London, it was just like, I'mnot not coming back. So I've
(06:15):
really, yeah, I mean, I come mymum lives here, my brother lives
here. And obviously, when yougrew up here, you've got lots of
friends as well. So I alwayscome back for you know, holidays
couple times a year, but really,really didn't think that I would
I just I just didn't think I'dcome back for many reasons,
work, all the things I justthought, you know, I'm not going
to come back. But I did. Soyeah, I moved back last year.
(06:39):
You know, because of manycircumstances, I suppose coming
out the pandemic? And also, Ihave a Yeah, I gave I gave birth
to my child a month before, youknow, the that happen that that
big world change. So, so manythings converge for me to come
back. It just just made sense.You know, lots of borders were
(07:01):
closing, they felt like thingswere closing in terms of being
able to live between twocountries, two continents. And
so yeah, it was it just feltlike well, I think I've got to
go home, I think I've got to goall the way back and financially
like an otherwise just pullingmy resources and make things
(07:22):
really small contract for aminute. And, and, and start
making steps again, and in kindof another, I suppose in another
path in another way. So it'sbeen almost a year now
commemorate my year back withthis with this discussion.
Sovay Berriman (07:42):
And how's how's it going? How you feeling about
it? I
Libita Sibungu (07:46):
mean, did you feel sort of trepidation about
about coming back? Oh,interesting. It wasn't
momentous. It just felt like itspirits so much, you know, I
spent half my life away fromhere. And it's kind of poetic
that it's like, you know, this,you know, first 18 years here,
(08:07):
then 18 years away, and now I'mback. So it kind of feels like
natural. And a lot of the hangups that I had about the place I
think of have left me in a way,like it is what it is, there's a
lot of similarities. And also,it's, I'm so different, that I'm
trying to be here in in thenewness of it, you know, because
(08:28):
I think when you grow up in aplace, you have so many memories
and hang ups about it. Butactually, that's you know, your
18 year old self. So I'm alsotrying to like get a sense of,
of what it what it's like now.And how do I relate to Penzance
now to call more now, because somuch, so much has changed. So
yeah, I'm from this place, butalso there's a lot I don't know
(08:50):
about it. So I'm trying to becurious. But it feels right, it
feels it feels pretty natural. Imean, like, like I said, because
I've got a child now. It'simportant for them to have
roots. And so the main thing forme at the minute is around
grounding and being present, andwhat does it mean to cultivate
roots and I've realised thatthat sense of belonging that I
(09:13):
thought was to do with a placeor an environment I don't think
is so much so I think it's it'sa really internal thing that I
think if you feel like you don'tbelong because of whatever
conditions in how you grew up,or maybe it's a you know,
ancestral trauma ordisplacement. I think there's a
(09:33):
lot of inner work to do aroundbelonging that isn't in the
external so I think I'm muchmore concerned with roots now. I
have roots in multiple places.And this is this is one of my
homes so I kind of need to beslow into water the roots and,
and to, to be a bit stable withthem.
Sovay Berriman (09:54):
And talk that's interesting. What you say about
it. sort of belonging, not beingabout place. We you and I've
spoken before about how we feelabout being Cornish and what
connects us in a way to the landor to the place. So how does
(10:18):
that fit in? With what you'retalking about there? And with
you making that choice to bringyour child here?
Libita Sibungu (10:28):
Yeah, I mean, I love the sea. I love the sea. I
do feel like, um, it wasinteresting here like, Liam
speak, you know? And I was like,yeah, in terms of like, some of
these things like, what, what dowe actually connect with those
that grew up here? And what isthat kind of tourist lens, but
for me, I think a constant hasalways been this, the sea has
(10:51):
always felt like home, actually,you know, wherever I go in the
world, if I'm, if I go to seethe sea, I just feel in awe. I
feel really good about that. Andin terms of, I mean, I know this
place at the back of my hand. Sothere's, you know, sometimes
when you've been through wildtimes, there's something
comforting in there. And it'sall right, like, it just is what
(11:15):
it is, you know, it just is thisplace just is what it is. And,
and there's things that arechanging, but I don't know how
much things really will change.But the thing I think the thing
about COBOL the only way that Ithat I guess I really know about
it is it's It's wild. I justthink there's wild energy,
(11:36):
whether whether you study thisstuff and go like it's the
Neolithic monuments has the leylines. It's the I don't know,
but I just know, there is a goddamn wildness here. And that
wildness, you know, I feel likeI have a wild spirit and I
express it in a different way towhat I used to in my youth, but
I think that might be the commonground of me and my, you know, I
(12:00):
speak from my experience me andmy friends that grew up here.
There was a wildness that weexpressed that just seemed to be
echoed in the landscape. Thatdidn't mean that we were in
these, you know, sacred sites,doing rituals, you know, like,
that could be in a in a carpark, do whatever we're doing,
(12:24):
or in, you know, we have oneclub. So being in in that place,
or, you know, being at afriend's house, but there's
just, I suppose it's a wildnessof youth, but there's just I
think there's just somethingenergetically here that isn't
about that romantic, beautifullandscapes that are on postcards
(12:45):
and in photos, but actually,it's it's the wildness that I
enjoy that I that I know to betrue.
Sovay Berriman (12:57):
Yeah, that I mean, it feels like that really
connects to part of thatconversation again with lemon
Giorgio, where we were talkingabout Urbanus and, and a bit
about the rough edges. Yeah, ofwhat Cornwall is. And for me,
sure, I feel as though I can bemore of myself in this place.
(13:23):
And I do think the landscape hasgot something to do with that.
The that's we're sort of aseries of peninsulas and high
ground and low ground, withinthe peninsula, we'd say much sea
and sky, there's quite a fewwild places you can go to that
(13:46):
are unkempt and crooked, andquite evidently affected by the
winds or the soul.
Libita Sibungu (13:59):
Yeah, I mean, I I wonder, I think in my most
cynical times, it was like, ifI'm away from people, then this
place is great. You know, if Imay cynical times, if I am in
(14:22):
nature, then that wow, this iswhere I'm from, this is where I
belong, and I feel thatspaciousness. However, as a
person of colour. There'ssomething very pervasive about
the longer that you spend insuch a white place. And how when
you talk about edges, it's likeyou start to absorb, you start
(14:46):
to absorb things you start totake on, I don't know, maybe
look so comments or feelings,that that can be difficult. You
know, Um, so that, that thatkind of total, I guess that,
(15:11):
that sense of being free or thatthat total feeling of being
yourself is, can be challengingin that situation, but then, you
know, that's, that's veryspecific to here. And then it
also makes me wonder about, youknow, when you go to other
places that you're not from thechallenges that you have in
your, in your body. In, in, inother circumstances, but yeah,
(15:37):
there's there's a discomfortthere, that becomes more
comfortable.
Sovay Berriman (15:43):
Is that? I mean, I'm wondering, is that something
about if you think, like,absorbing licks or comments,
denying and those links incomments, undermining? I mean,
it sounds like, I'm assumingtheir looks and comments that
(16:07):
other ring and having someracist Sure thing behind them.
Yeah, yeah. So underminingwhatever sense of I don't know,
what the
Libita Sibungu (16:22):
the only thing that I know, that I suppose I
came to a conclusion of a whileago, when I would speak about
this stuff. And it was kind oflike, growing up here, it's
like, you're, you're, you're soyou're hyper visible. But you're
invisible. You know, it's likeyou, you are so see, and you're
so known, because of the bodythat you are in that, but yet,
(16:50):
that you're you go there's alevel of invisibility within
that, you know, I don't know,it's your experiences, so can be
so isolating that there's,there's a, there's a there's a
loneliness in that. I mean, Ithink the the invisible it could
(17:11):
be like, you know, like peoplebeing colorblind. So like,
you're not different. You'relike one of us. But you know, we
need to acknowledge ourdifferences to them, be proud of
them or to understand them. Butthen I think if you're going
through experiences where you'renot vocalising, what's
happening, if you're havingdisturbing experiences, which
(17:35):
are making you uncomfortable,but you're not speaking about
them, because you don't feel youhave a safe space to say that,
there's, there's those parts ofyou become fragmented, right?
You become fractured. So thoseparts that you start become less
and less whole, because you'renot speaking to your full
experience. There's a retreat,there's, there's a, there's an
(17:57):
inwardness and there's a there'sa self silencing, and with that,
you know, that's, that's whererepression can happen. That's,
that's quite dangerous in termsof the realms of, of trauma and,
and these kind of day to dayexperiences. I guess that's what
I mean by things can get heavy.So it's important to, I think,
check in with that and find waysof speaking, to release to move
(18:17):
through and to process you know,but yeah, I don't know, it's
just that there is somethingthat in the way that you move
through these spaces, I guessthat, that you that can be
exhausting, that can beexhausting. I have to check in
(18:37):
with that and get a sense of,you know, like, how am I
feeling? Where's my energy at?am I feeling a certain way
because of this? And, you know,maybe I've got to get out of
town or or maybe I need to, youknow, cold cultivate some some
time with some friends thatunderstand my experience. And
(19:02):
there are, you know, there areother things that play but with
that particular experience as aperson of colour here, yeah,
that's something that can Ithink, if you're not careful,
can can be absorbed in actuallycould get a bit heavier after
some time.
Sovay Berriman (19:15):
I can, I could totally imagine that. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. And, and so as anartist and with the artwork you
make these this range is wealthof experience of being who you
(19:37):
are in Cornwall, and an AfricanCeltic person. Does that come
into your artwork? Do you think?Does it come into it
deliberately? Like did you setout to make work? That was did
you one day kind of make himwork?
Libita Sibungu (19:57):
out as much Data though. I mean, I've been on a
journey I after my degree I, youknow, I quit. I actually, in my
degree, what did I do? I had areally tough time at uni. And
then I presented in aperformance, I ate my birth
certificate and present, Ishouldn't say this life, this
type of thing that you justdon't, why am I doing this? I've
(20:19):
written it out. It doesn't existanymore. But basically, I, you
know, I decided that this newbeginning needed to happen. And
yeah, I didn't consider myselfas an artist for about five
years. I graduated in 2009. Andthen it was in 2014, that I
started to make work again, butit was that silencing. I
(20:43):
couldn't see in my curriculum,artists that reflected my
experience as a person ofcolour, the language of
blackness were the things thatyou know, that I understand that
I didn't have the vocabulary forthat. And so I became really,
really stuck. And it becamereally, very, very difficult
time for me and, and so in 2014,I started when I was in Bristol,
(21:06):
started to reform my practicethat was looking at community
and experience of black peoplearound my studio suppose at the
time and looking at broadcastingand radio, I think about
facilitation as a practice,which led me into eventually
working with sound, and thenthinking about installations.
But I, yeah, I was kind ofmoving in and around and then
(21:31):
started to look at like,performance and objects that I
could carry that would speak tothe landscape. And it felt like
the materials and some of theworks came before I realised
what they were talking to whatthey were speaking to. So
there's, I think I did this bigwork in 2017, where I carried
like these big rocks, bouldersthat looked like there were
(21:54):
these huge, like, granite,Cornish rocks, throughout
Venice. And but they were madeof polystyrene. But you know,
when I, when I look at thatwork, I didn't really know what
the work was about. But now I'mlike, Oh, of course, you know, I
wanted to speak to this kind ofthis experience of growing up in
(22:14):
Cornwall, but then also of mykind of displaced African
heritage and journeying. And soyeah, that kind of converged
into me, going straight at it, Ithink in 2019, and realising I
couldn't dance around what thiswork was anymore, and it was
(22:37):
about me speak about mypersonal, you know, my family
experience and my heritage.
Sovay Berriman (22:46):
And those, it was that piece that really
chimed with me around. I know,I've mentioned this to you
before, around the way thesegranite blocks are used to
delineate space and close downspace and control. Yeah, pool.
Libita Sibungu (23:07):
But also, I've just, I've just started to find
it really funny. Like when Iwhen I just started to learn and
like when I actually started tolook at these lumps of granite
as like, Okay, this is our wayof delineating space that is
just fucking hilarious. Like,this is where a car park is his
two giant granite block, like,you know, not like, I'm not
(23:31):
trying to make us out to bereally backward, but like, that
is just how it is when you startwhen when I started to look
around it things I was like,This is fucking funny. There are
two lumps of granite to tell usthat this is a zone. And and
that to be like, yeah, granite.You know, it is this place. You
(23:52):
know, when you look at thehouses, you just know it and but
also, I think there's somethingreally funny, you know, there's
a seriousness to all of this,but also there's there's a lot
of humour, I think,
Sovay Berriman (24:05):
in the way things are just plunked down,
like,
Libita Sibungu (24:09):
yeah, plunked down it's just it's just like
okay, that's that's just how itis that did the job why change
it
Sovay Berriman (24:17):
and it and it and it does then there's more
time to sit down have a cup oftea and eat you pasty that crew
Libita Sibungu (24:28):
Yeah, granite granite. I put granite into my
last show actually in 2019 loadsof Cornish I demanded Cornish
granite gravel be in my show. Asa homage to this place. But
yeah, I didn't know there'ssomething there's something
important I think aboutmaterials and and provenance and
(24:52):
what you what you ascribe tothem? That can be an interesting
symbolism. If you want to thinkof it in that way. Oh, no.
Sovay Berriman (25:01):
Yeah, yeah. Well, thinking, thinking about
that, that plunked down nervous.Again, it feels like this is
something Lehman, Georgia sortof touched upon as well like the
the space to make things happen.And being back in, like red
(25:25):
wreath and Falmouthrespectively, they felt like
there's space to make thingshappen, that people do just set
stuff up. Oh, yeah, here's afield, right? We've got an air
show on No, that's it done.Things are sometimes really put
together without much finesse.But they can also happen quite
(25:47):
quickly without too much fuss.And I don't need that fair. I
don't think that that issomething that's just COBOL. But
it certainly feels somethingthat is easy to happen here. And
comes into my work a bit. ADean, do any of those sorts of
(26:11):
attitudes come through?
Libita Sibungu (26:15):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I I don't know, if
I relate that to my, if I canrelate that to my Cornish
experience, in terms of just,you know, having my second wave
(26:35):
coming, being back here for ayear, but
certainly, I feel like I camethrough an artist led DIY.
Space, you know, when I cameback to my practice, in 2014,
and, you know, like, justputting things on with, you
(26:56):
know, with no money, I sawworking other jobs. And I think
there's something maybe aboutclass in that, you know, like,
not coming from economicallyprivileged backgrounds, and
therefore having to work acouple of part time jobs, at
(27:17):
least, and then have a studio.And then in the spare time, you
know, you do things. So, priorto the position that I'm in now,
you know, and whatever number ofyears ago, it was an economic
thing as well of how can we putstuff on how can we have
(27:38):
community you know, with withoutmuch and best use the resources
that we have, and I think that'sreflected my, the outcome of my
practices, you know, what, whatresources do I have to hand and,
and maybe in that more DIYenvironment, I was making more
(28:02):
performative works, you know,and like carrying these rocks
or, or broadcasting or beingpart of a collective because I
had to and and now, you know, Ihaven't been haven't been in the
studio really haven't had astudio for a few years. And, and
so my practice operates in adifferent way again, but I
wonder now, being back herebeing in Penzance? Yeah, what's
(28:29):
the pulse of the arts? And I'mcurious, I don't feel like I'm
in it, you know, I hang out incertain spots. I don't drive.
But I'm not. Yeah, I'm not sureof what's going on in terms of
artists led communities or DIYprojects here in pens out
(28:50):
specifically, you know? Yeah.What do you think like, because
we feel very regional within asmall region, it's, you know,
there are these, that's what I'mrealising. I'm trying to, like,
observe like, Okay, so there'skind of like, an art scene isn't
just there's an art scene in newthat there's an art scene and
(29:11):
there's about okay, there'sthese. Okay, there's a lot of
little pockets, right.
Sovay Berriman (29:18):
Yeah, I mean, I feel Cornwall's really, really
dispersed and broken up and hasreally poor connectivity between
the different areas, towns andvillages. And feels to me like
there's strong really strongidentities connected to certain
(29:44):
places. Like I'm, yeah, I wasborn in Penzance and grew up
around Campbell in and aroundCampbell and I went to secondary
school in Touray, but I don'tsort of connect Chertow um, for
of West. I'm from West Cornwall,and that sort of really part of
my identity and even I live inFalmouth now. And yeah, it's
(30:12):
lovely, lovely living inFalmouth and I make it made a
choice to come to the besidescase to have a different
experience when I moved backthen what, eight years ago but
it's difficult and then there'sBob mu more like completely
splits Cornwall as well. Like,yeah,
Libita Sibungu (30:31):
I that is elusive to
Sovay Berriman (30:33):
me. Like how often do people from West
Cornwall go up to North and EastCornwall?
Libita Sibungu (30:40):
I know if you're not from here. I mean, it seems
bonkers. But it's so true. Likemaybe do you think wherever you
go, there's always like a northsouth divide. You know, there's
always like, well, a coastal,
Sovay Berriman (30:54):
my mother moved to London in the early 80s,
though, she's lived there for areally long time. And she is
really disparaging about southof the river. If I'm when I
lived in depth for a time, andshe was just like, what?
Libita Sibungu (31:17):
Not just the East End but safe. So maybe it's
in our nature.
Sovay Berriman (31:23):
Yeah, to ascribe what to become connected to a
zone and feel that. Yeah, Imean, I, I wonder if it is yeah,
to an extent. And I wonder aboutthe geography of Cornwall? Sort
of. Also, we've got so many upsand downs and the wild spaces
you're talking about, like theMoors. Yeah. Oh, even now.
(31:45):
Harder to be in on. So I dothink they sort of key people in
their little conurbations andyou know, we don't have great
public transport doing we're notgoing to just like jump on the
central line and nip down toPenzance
Libita Sibungu (32:05):
No, that's an issue, you're like, you really
do need to drive, right. And ifyou don't drive here, then
there's, there's, you reallyexperience it in a different
this place in a different way.And I grew up not with, you
know, driving family. And Ithink I became aware later in
life when I was like, reflectingand being like, whoa, and just
seeing friends that havedifferent mobilities and in lots
(32:29):
of different ways, how theyexperienced growing up here and,
and their, their language aroundthe state. And it was just so
different, you know, there wasjust such a different
understanding of the histories,it was interesting hearing, you
know, the conversation withGiorgio, and Liam, like, around
these kind of, you know,esoteric, like sacred histories
(32:52):
and, and how inaccessible, thoseknowledges were, and maybe still
are, and thinking about thatphysically as well, like, who
has access to these heritagesites that tourists want to come
and see, and also people, youknow, with a certain
(33:14):
understanding, go to see,because I certainly know that I
didn't experience that stuff.You know, it was only when I did
this project in 2019, when Ithought I need to look at my
heritage here. And I need toface some things. And I need to
make peace with some things andwalk through some some things
that when I started to walkalong some of these paths, it
was amazing. But I also kind ofjust thought, wow, I just, I
(33:39):
didn't I didn't think I likedwalking, you know, I was just
like, ah, for years, I was like,you know, walking in it's
interesting here live sayingthat, because I was like, I hear
you. And I'm really differentnow. But like, I just didn't get
it because it wasn't a hobby.Like, why would you go for a
walk on the weekend? Like I'm intown, like we're gonna go out
(34:01):
and do something local andbecause we didn't drive it just
wasn't part of our my family'slike vocabulary or something to
do. And I wonder when I thinkabout kids from the estate as
well, like, they sure as hellwasn't you know, they were not
doing that as well. So I justthink there's, there's a big
there's a big gap in, in ourexperience here in terms of
(34:26):
mobility, economic, social, youknow, like physical mobility in
who can access these sites,claimed sites of heritage of
beauty of wonder. And so then ifyou live in a place where
everybody's talking about thisstuff, and yet you can't access
(34:47):
it, there's also thatinvisibility thing happening
again, where like the Cornishidentity is really hyper visible
in you know, in terms of thelanguage or you know, media, and
yet you're exposed variants isinvisible, in terms of you not
being within that narrative, andthat's where I have a problem
with dominant narratives.Because it does this eclipses,
(35:09):
you know, eclipses that it's notinclusive, is it? And sometimes
it's just not real. It's real toa certain part, but also like
how many people feel outside ofthat
Sovay Berriman (35:24):
there's so much dislocation in that. Like, if
there's, yeah, this dominantnarrative, this is what Cornish
and this is, this is the Cornishheritage will prancing around
merry maidens, like everyweekend or something, or always
spending time down at the beach.And actually, we know loads and
(35:46):
loads and loads of marine landare not doing that. Yeah. And
even if they aren't coastal,they're sort of facing away from
the beach because of all theother month, sort of mundane
disease, but essentials like dayjobs and how you get to a day
job.
Libita Sibungu (36:05):
Yeah, and transport. You know,
transportation is a big one. Butit's interesting, that
dislocation was interesting.
Sovay Berriman (36:15):
Huh? And that, going back to what you were
talking about there aroundfractured cultures? I mean, I'm
really interested in how wellnot necessarily how culture
become fractured. But how do we,as individuals put those things
(36:36):
for ourselves? To an extent? Andhow easy is it to claim
something that you can't access?Like you say, like, maybe you
can't get to, I don't know,Lani, and coin, or men and toe
or one of these places. But youknow, it's part of that
(36:57):
heritage. And you always see itpresented in this certain, in a
in a way. That is, maybe not,maybe not something you relate
Libita Sibungu (37:12):
to I suppose it's about storytelling, isn't
it? And who's speaking? Who'snarrating? And so, you know,
that those? That is true, isn'tit that is a part of Cornwall.
(37:32):
But then there are there areother parts and other
experiences that I think arelesser known. And so then that
makes you think about powerdynamics around who is speaking
and who, who are telling thestories. And, you know, what are
the intentions around,constantly telling the same
stories here, because that issomething that I found stifling.
(37:55):
Growing up here, and still, to acertain extent, is the level of
repetition around Cornwallheritage, you know, it's not to
say that the stories that aretold aren't true, but also, you
know, 50 years on, there havegot to be other experiences and
(38:16):
other histories emerging, thataren't just majorly you know,
marginalised experiences. And sothat gets me wondering about the
author and the narrator, and,and the writers of, you know,
the creators of these postcards.And I think there's something
(38:39):
important in I don't know, when,I guess when we think about
fragments, it's like anarchaeological dig or something.
You know, like, where are theother pieces and, and I think we
can stick something we can, youknow, make something again, this
(38:59):
is like your work, isn't it? Wemake something again, but it
won't ever be what it was. Butthat's okay. And sometimes when
there's the conversationsperhaps around Cornish identity
and where we're going, I thinkthere can be a desire to there's
(39:20):
a tension isn't there betweenthe past and where we're going,
and where we are now. And that'sit's quite disorientating and
quite difficult because youknow, we can't stay in the past
and we can't hark back. But wecan bring things forwards to
create something new and andrelevant and expressive and
(39:45):
important, but I think it's whenyou don't have the perspective
on on what you're digging whatyou know what the what what
you're finding on the site. It'shave these little fragments,
isn't it?
Sovay Berriman (40:02):
Hmm. And then there's, I mean, this really
connects to that. Okay? So ifyou're real rebuilding those
narratives, or building a newnarrative, with these fragments
that you find, then who? Who isit? He's rebuilding that
(40:26):
narrative or writing that newnarrative? And who is it for?
And who's it for? And hit andwho does that? Who does it seek
to include?
Libita Sibungu (40:38):
And include? Inclusion is really important.
Yeah.
Sovay Berriman (40:42):
And and we spoke, Georgia spake a bit about
and those tensions around what Isort of picked up that it was
around there is that changing?And being open to that shift?
(41:02):
But also, there's a griefattached to it and, and fear
around? Am I going to beincluded in that narrative? In
that new narrative?
Libita Sibungu (41:15):
I think when there's a like a feeling of a
loss of identity there, there isthere is fear. And I think a lot
of strange things can happen.And I you know, when you when
you ask someone what it is to beCornish
it's a really we all got adifferent idea about that,
(41:40):
haven't we?
Sovay Berriman (41:45):
I went to red reef pride on Saturday. I did
you and that was awesome. Itreally what I loved about that
was it brought together youknow, on a really personal
level, like my hopes andambitions for Cornwall, and my
(42:06):
beliefs of Cornwall. And what Iwill say like, my sort of
historic life, sort oftraditional life of como se,
like, old Cornish lady standingoutside the pasty shop going,
lovely, it's beautiful. And thenalso this enormous, like, this
(42:29):
huge pride flag rolling downbeing filled up for, like a
massive blast is like blastingout a load of Freddie Mercury.
And like, some gazes of wingsand gold hot pants, like, on car
night, for me, is thatcompletely summed up where it is
(42:56):
and where it's going, in my sortof in my fantasy world.
Libita Sibungu (43:03):
So that, but that also sounds like
intergenerational as well. Youknow, how do we I think there's
maybe something aboutintergenerational conversations
that are really important interms of like, rebuilding or
constructing, reconstructingwhatever, this new site or place
(43:27):
old places, you know, becausethat sounds like, you know, that
kind of mash up in one place,and that kind of wild spirit of,
of a number of things happeningat the same time in a, you know,
in a kind of chaotic cohesion.That's working. And that's, that
(43:49):
also feels that feels like here,right? In a lot of ways, like
there's so and just, you know,I'm thinking about a town
setting. And this happens incities as well, of course, but
just where there's there is alevel of understanding isn't
there, and cohesion,cooperation, something
(44:13):
happening, that allows it all tohappen at the same time? And I
think, with gentrification, orwith these kinds of railroading,
fast paced projects as a kind ofhomogeny that happens that maybe
like drops out some of that, youknow, we've said edge we've said
(44:37):
wildness, just that kind ofmashup of like daily life of
people being in a spacetogether. You know, like people
hanging out on a bench. Youknow, maybe there's a gallery or
something going on. There's acouple of the old shops, you
know, and we have a like yearlycarnival that brings everyone
(44:58):
together or whatever you There'sall those things need to happen
in their own small way at thesame time.
Sovay Berriman (45:09):
Yeah. And there's that's where there's
this, I think class comes intothis as well. In in that moment
of, it's not about homogenising.Like, it's not I don't know what
it is when I talked about this,but homogenising or smoothing
(45:30):
those edges. Is is thefrightening thing. Yeah, yeah.
It should, it should be likethis pipe down. Yeah. You know,
yeah. Actually, it's thatpeeling paint is that unfurling,
it's what it's what the, like,80% humidity or whatever it is
that we have here does to almostevery single material that, that
(45:57):
opens up these cracks for allsorts of things to come
together. And I read the sort ofgentrification in the class sort
of dynamic is trying toendeavouring to smooth down
those feelings. Yeah. Anythoughts on that? On those? On
(46:30):
my class comes into that?
Libita Sibungu (46:33):
I don't know. I think I think it maybe not so
directly, I think class andaccess and maybe like spatial
engineering, I think that justthat weaves in, in and out of
these conversations. And I don'tknow, there's just still like an
(46:56):
undertone for me about, like,when you're a person of colour
here, you are constantly assumedthat you're not from here. It's
terms of just of that, likepeeling or if that like claiming
of land or in terms of like thatmash up of what works. There's
(47:18):
still that, that lens of like,but where, you know, where are
you from? That kind ofdatabases, you know, Stu bases
so much that if you're, youknow, if one of your parents is
from here, your grandparent, itdoesn't matter. Like you can go
(47:42):
into all the validation aroundlike whatever that passport is
to your to your credentials ofbeing here, but if you it feels
like to me and you know, I'msure to a lot of other POCs.
That when and this is but thisis also Penzance, right? I'm
(48:03):
down here. And I'm sure in Truroand Falmouth and other places is
a different experience. Butthere is, yeah, just just the
assumption that when you are notwhite, when you're a person of
colour, that you're already fromanother place. And it just it's
(48:24):
just, it's just an undertone,you know, that just the basis so
much around. Maybe around thereclaiming of heritage. It kind
of just shifts, shifts thefoundation of it's a different
(48:45):
start point to the conversationsaround Cornish identity when you
have mixed ancestry or when youare Corniche. But you are told
quite regularly or ask quiteregularly, where are you from?
It just creates a differentbuilding foundation for whatever
(49:06):
the house is that comes on top.So it's like the base the
structure, the perspective, inmy mind, is just so it's just
different. So it's almost likewhen we're when we're talking
about this landscape, and youknow, like I love like mines,
(49:26):
and as part of my heritage and Ithink they're super fascinating.
But that's what I love thesubterranean as well, you know,
there's this empty caverns belowus that also have the potential
for so much in terms of likealternative, alternative energy,
sustainable energy systems aswell and think about geothermal
energy. But anyway, I digress.There's something there in the
(49:50):
subterranean realm to thinkabout what can come like what's
already under us that's quitemurky and maybe toxic and here
It's in, you know, mines areally good analogy for it. But
then, you know, water can bepumped in, we can go to the S
corp, he can come up andsomething sustainable could come
(50:10):
through. But I think there'ssomething about that base and
the conversation around manyperspectives, which is why these
conversations are reallyimportant. My perspective here
being really important, just asmuch as everyone else is, that
perhaps helps us all bring inthese kinds of materials or
components into like, what isgoing on under there to include
(50:37):
those toxic parts as well. Andthose rotten parts and those
eroded parts into us making andbuilding a foundation? I don't
know if that makes sense. Butthat's kind of the best way to
get to it in my mind's eye.
Sovay Berriman (50:55):
I will I think it's really essential to think
about that. The role of thoseminers in the day of sporer,
sort of when talk about it canbe spoken about really proudly,
the Cornish Diaspora. Yeah,yeah. But that Cornish diaspora
is really connected to a wholeother project.
Libita Sibungu (51:19):
colonial legacy. Yeah. A very violent colonial
project. And, yeah, that's that,again, is, you know, like a
dominant narrative that thatneeds to be updated. And that's,
you know, it's not about aroading history, because the
truth is, what the truth is,it's just about including other
(51:42):
histories and other narrativesthat make it a fuller truer
reflection of something that hashappened, right. And, you know,
I've, I've looked at the KresenKernow website, and they've got,
you know, a whole black historysection, and a whole like, you
(52:02):
know, Cornish, this Bora andcolonial legacy project. So
there's, there's work that'sbeing done that I think is
really important. And again,back to that work of like,
inclusivity, of bringinginclusivity into, into the
narratives and the conversationsand also, you know, when I was
(52:25):
listening to Liam and Georgia,there was this sense that I can
identify with as well, which islike, there's just also
something you don't know, that'slike a bit of disease. When you
start to try and place what'shappening with identity with
place, in terms of, you know,the specifics of Cornwall, like,
(52:49):
there's also something going on,and I've had conversations with
friends where we can't, youknow, maybe there's like an
anger. And it's like, I don'tknow where that anger is, like,
I feel angry about something todo with, like the rate of change
here. But I don't know what thatis to do with. And there's
(53:14):
something great as well about,you know, coming back, and
having so much more choicearound, you know, like food and
drink and sharps and somegalleries that I absolutely
embrace and love, but I totallyidentify with, I think what you
all were saying about therebeing something that is unknown
(53:37):
and uncomfortable going oninternally about this, that is
hard to even place. But it'simportant to say also, like, you
know, I don't know, but I havefeelings coming up that that are
kind of conflicting. And and,yeah, I've certainly felt you
know, a medley of emotions andideas about the Cornish identity
(54:02):
and I don't know, like nationstates and, you know, borders.
And, and these things arechallenging for me, you know, I
just, they're just, they're justreally challenging notions. What
are we putting out there interms of like, what's reflecting
us now? There needs to be someother reflections about our
(54:26):
contemporary landscape thatbring in you know, are entangled
histories as well, of course,but I think this is where the
role of artists is reallyexciting and interesting
and important, right?
Sovay Berriman (54:41):
Yeah, totally. Totally. Thanks so much Libita
that was like so generous, andthoughtful.
Libita Sibungu (54:53):
Thank you so much. Sovay for hosting these
conversations are really, reallyimportant and yeah, Thank you
for the invitation.
Sovay Berriman (55:01):
Meur ras, a’gas goslowes, thank you for
listening. further episodes ofthe MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh
The MESKLA | Brewyon Drudhpodcast and project has been
made possible due to a wealth ofinkind help and support for many
parties, including the LowenderPeran festival. Gorsedh Kernow,
Cornwall Council's Cornishlanguage office, Kowethas an
yeth Kernewek, Cornwallneighbourhoods for change and
Falmouth University Falmouth campus. The project has been
supported using public fundingby the National Lottery through
Arts Council England, andfurther funding has been
gratefully received fromHistoric England by Redruth Unlimited.
Meur ras dhywgh a'gas termyn,agas gweles. Thank you for your
podcast can be find on mywebsite Sovay berriman.co.uk.
(55:24):
That's sovayberriman.co.uk Whereyou also find guest's
biographies and a resource pageof links to further reading on
the topics discussed. If youfeel inspired to join the MESKLA
(55:48):
conversation about contemporaryCornish cultural identity,
please get in touch with meSovay Berriman. via my website
or social media, you'll findMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh on
Facebook, Instagram, andTwitter.
(56:31):
time. See you later.
Dydh da ha dynnargh pub huni dhe bodkastow
MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh ostyesgenev, Sovay Berriman. Hello
(00:25):
and welcome everyone to theMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh podcasts,
hosted by me Sovay Berriman.MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh is a
multi platform project, usingsculpture making and
conversation to explorecontemporary Cornish cultural
identity. Through workshops,podcasts, a symposium, and an
(00:50):
exhibition. The project invitespeople to share their
experiences of identity andCornwall, and their views on
Cornish culture and itsrelationship to land, language,
heritage, tourism, the Cornishdiaspora, and much, much more.
These podcasts were calledConversations with guests whose
(01:14):
research or lived experiencetouches on the project themes.
The views, thoughts and opinionsexpressed the speaker's own. All
conversations are carried outwith a spirit of generosity and
openness, creating space for thediscussions to twist and turn.
And I'm very grateful to all whohave taken part. This podcast is
(01:41):
recorded in two parts. ArtistsLibita Sibungu, Georgia Gendall,
Liam Jolly and I had planned tobe in a room together to talk
about our relationships withCornwall, but we were meeting on
one of the hottest days of theyear, when a storm brought the
first rain for weeks anddisrupted rail and road travel
(02:03):
and took out some mobile masts.Due to the disruptions we
couldn't all be in the sameplace. So we recorded the
conversation in two parts. Thisis part two, I'm joined by
Libita Sibungu, aninterdisciplinary artist.
Sibungu works with writingdrawing, performance,
(02:23):
photography, print and sound tobuild environments that we
decolonial narratives intoimmersive installations and
poetic arrangements. Sibungu isthe recipient of the 2022 Arts
Foundation feature award. Andshe has presented her work with
Spike Island gasworks andSomerset House in the UK, Temple
(02:46):
Bar gallery, Ireland and Sonsbeek in the Netherlands. Here we
join Libita telling us about herwork and practice.
Libita Sibungu (02:57):
Yeah, yeah, sure. It's constantly shifting.
So let's go with what it istoday. I'm interested in
entangled histories, how weexperience memory, and also
wanting to create spaces for forhealing and catharsis. So I
speak a lot through my personalhistory as a mixed race, African
(03:22):
Celtic, black woman, and myexperiences of growing up as a
person of colour in Cornwall inrural England. And yeah, I work
a lot with sound. I work a lotwith drawings and with analogue
processes.
Sovay Berriman (03:38):
And they have you worked away as an artist.
What's your sort of journey?Yeah, so
Libita Sibungu (03:47):
journey, I guess. I I grew up here in
Cornwall, mainly in Penzance.And then when I was at, you
know, I fled. I think it was,no, no, what did I do? I
actually did a foundation atFalmouth. That was my first
stepping stone, I knew thatthere was a golden ticket out.
(04:09):
And for me, there was only onepath left. And that was three
education. I wasn't primed to goto university, you know, I don't
think it was necessarily afeeling in my family structure.
This is what would happen next,but it just became quite quite
an urgent, like this is the onlyway so yeah. When I went to
(04:29):
Falmouth was my best friend andshout out Nina Royal. And it was
wonderful because there were somany people not from Cornwall
there. So it was like a year ofjust us and all these people
that weren't from Cornwall wasabsolutely like so great. And so
then yeah, it was a steppingstone to go and study in London,
(04:50):
as I'm sure you know, thosepeople do. People go to
university for many reasons, buta part of it is mobility and
that way, a chance to go to a Apart of the country that perhaps
you feel that you couldn'tafford to do so otherwise and,
and then, and then I spent 10years in Bristol, and then have
(05:11):
travelled a bit to SouthernAfrica, mainly Namibia in the
last few years. And now I'mback.
Sovay Berriman (05:19):
So you've heard a bit of Georgia and Liam's
conversation, and they spoke abit about this coming back and
through the workshops, that someare also running, dropping
workshops and conversation aspart of muscular. And a few
people have brought up you'veattended those workshops, sort
of really kind of mixed tensionsaround coming back to Cornwall
(05:43):
and the decision when to do it.And has has that for you.
Libita Sibungu (05:50):
Yeah, I mean, I was one of those that kind of,
like I said, like kind of fledwas absolutely chomping at the
bit, to just see more. There'sgot to be more, there's got to
be some black people somewhere.You know, did it grow up with
the Internet? Come on, where areyou? And so once I was in
London, it was just like, I'mnot not coming back. So I've
(06:15):
really, yeah, I mean, I come mymum lives here, my brother lives
here. And obviously, when yougrew up here, you've got lots of
friends as well. So I alwayscome back for you know, holidays
couple times a year, but really,really didn't think that I would
I just I just didn't think I'dcome back for many reasons,
work, all the things I justthought, you know, I'm not going
to come back. But I did. Soyeah, I moved back last year.
(06:39):
You know, because of manycircumstances, I suppose coming
out the pandemic? And also, Ihave a Yeah, I gave I gave birth
to my child a month before, youknow, the that happen that that
big world change. So, so manythings converge for me to come
back. It just just made sense.You know, lots of borders were
(07:01):
closing, they felt like thingswere closing in terms of being
able to live between twocountries, two continents. And
so yeah, it was it just feltlike well, I think I've got to
go home, I think I've got to goall the way back and financially
like an otherwise just pullingmy resources and make things
(07:22):
really small contract for aminute. And, and, and start
making steps again, and in kindof another, I suppose in another
path in another way. So it'sbeen almost a year now
commemorate my year back withthis with this discussion.
Sovay Berriman (07:42):
And how's how's it going? How you feeling about
it? I
Libita Sibungu (07:46):
mean, did you feel sort of trepidation about
about coming back? Oh,interesting. It wasn't
momentous. It just felt like itspirits so much, you know, I
spent half my life away fromhere. And it's kind of poetic
that it's like, you know, this,you know, first 18 years here,
(08:07):
then 18 years away, and now I'mback. So it kind of feels like
natural. And a lot of the hangups that I had about the place I
think of have left me in a way,like it is what it is, there's a
lot of similarities. And also,it's, I'm so different, that I'm
trying to be here in in thenewness of it, you know, because
(08:28):
I think when you grow up in aplace, you have so many memories
and hang ups about it. Butactually, that's you know, your
18 year old self. So I'm alsotrying to like get a sense of,
of what it what it's like now.And how do I relate to Penzance
now to call more now, because somuch, so much has changed. So
yeah, I'm from this place, butalso there's a lot I don't know
(08:50):
about it. So I'm trying to becurious. But it feels right, it
feels it feels pretty natural. Imean, like, like I said, because
I've got a child now. It'simportant for them to have
roots. And so the main thing forme at the minute is around
grounding and being present, andwhat does it mean to cultivate
roots and I've realised thatthat sense of belonging that I
(09:13):
thought was to do with a placeor an environment I don't think
is so much so I think it's it'sa really internal thing that I
think if you feel like you don'tbelong because of whatever
conditions in how you grew up,or maybe it's a you know,
ancestral trauma ordisplacement. I think there's a
(09:33):
lot of inner work to do aroundbelonging that isn't in the
external so I think I'm muchmore concerned with roots now. I
have roots in multiple places.And this is this is one of my
homes so I kind of need to beslow into water the roots and,
and to, to be a bit stable withthem.
Sovay Berriman (09:54):
And talk that's interesting. What you say about
it. sort of belonging, not beingabout place. We you and I've
spoken before about how we feelabout being Cornish and what
connects us in a way to the landor to the place. So how does
(10:18):
that fit in? With what you'retalking about there? And with
you making that choice to bringyour child here?
Libita Sibungu (10:28):
Yeah, I mean, I love the sea. I love the sea. I
do feel like, um, it wasinteresting here like, Liam
speak, you know? And I was like,yeah, in terms of like, some of
these things like, what, what dowe actually connect with those
that grew up here? And what isthat kind of tourist lens, but
for me, I think a constant hasalways been this, the sea has
(10:51):
always felt like home, actually,you know, wherever I go in the
world, if I'm, if I go to seethe sea, I just feel in awe. I
feel really good about that. Andin terms of, I mean, I know this
place at the back of my hand. Sothere's, you know, sometimes
when you've been through wildtimes, there's something
comforting in there. And it'sall right, like, it just is what
(11:15):
it is, you know, it just is thisplace just is what it is. And,
and there's things that arechanging, but I don't know how
much things really will change.But the thing I think the thing
about COBOL the only way that Ithat I guess I really know about
it is it's It's wild. I justthink there's wild energy,
(11:36):
whether whether you study thisstuff and go like it's the
Neolithic monuments has the leylines. It's the I don't know,
but I just know, there is a goddamn wildness here. And that
wildness, you know, I feel likeI have a wild spirit and I
express it in a different way towhat I used to in my youth, but
I think that might be the commonground of me and my, you know, I
(12:00):
speak from my experience me andmy friends that grew up here.
There was a wildness that weexpressed that just seemed to be
echoed in the landscape. Thatdidn't mean that we were in
these, you know, sacred sites,doing rituals, you know, like,
that could be in a in a carpark, do whatever we're doing,
(12:24):
or in, you know, we have oneclub. So being in in that place,
or, you know, being at afriend's house, but there's
just, I suppose it's a wildnessof youth, but there's just I
think there's just somethingenergetically here that isn't
about that romantic, beautifullandscapes that are on postcards
(12:45):
and in photos, but actually,it's it's the wildness that I
enjoy that I that I know to betrue.
Sovay Berriman (12:57):
Yeah, that I mean, it feels like that really
connects to part of thatconversation again with lemon
Giorgio, where we were talkingabout Urbanus and, and a bit
about the rough edges. Yeah, ofwhat Cornwall is. And for me,
sure, I feel as though I can bemore of myself in this place.
(13:23):
And I do think the landscape hasgot something to do with that.
The that's we're sort of aseries of peninsulas and high
ground and low ground, withinthe peninsula, we'd say much sea
and sky, there's quite a fewwild places you can go to that
(13:46):
are unkempt and crooked, andquite evidently affected by the
winds or the soul.
Libita Sibungu (13:59):
Yeah, I mean, I I wonder, I think in my most
cynical times, it was like, ifI'm away from people, then this
place is great. You know, if Imay cynical times, if I am in
(14:22):
nature, then that wow, this iswhere I'm from, this is where I
belong, and I feel thatspaciousness. However, as a
person of colour. There'ssomething very pervasive about
the longer that you spend insuch a white place. And how when
you talk about edges, it's likeyou start to absorb, you start
(14:46):
to absorb things you start totake on, I don't know, maybe
look so comments or feelings,that that can be difficult. You
know, Um, so that, that thatkind of total, I guess that,
(15:11):
that sense of being free or thatthat total feeling of being
yourself is, can be challengingin that situation, but then, you
know, that's, that's veryspecific to here. And then it
also makes me wonder about, youknow, when you go to other
places that you're not from thechallenges that you have in
your, in your body. In, in, inother circumstances, but yeah,
(15:37):
there's there's a discomfortthere, that becomes more
comfortable.
Sovay Berriman (15:43):
Is that? I mean, I'm wondering, is that something
about if you think, like,absorbing licks or comments,
denying and those links incomments, undermining? I mean,
it sounds like, I'm assumingtheir looks and comments that
(16:07):
other ring and having someracist Sure thing behind them.
Yeah, yeah. So underminingwhatever sense of I don't know,
what the
Libita Sibungu (16:22):
the only thing that I know, that I suppose I
came to a conclusion of a whileago, when I would speak about
this stuff. And it was kind oflike, growing up here, it's
like, you're, you're, you're soyou're hyper visible. But you're
invisible. You know, it's likeyou, you are so see, and you're
so known, because of the bodythat you are in that, but yet,
(16:50):
that you're you go there's alevel of invisibility within
that, you know, I don't know,it's your experiences, so can be
so isolating that there's,there's a, there's a there's a
loneliness in that. I mean, Ithink the the invisible it could
(17:11):
be like, you know, like peoplebeing colorblind. So like,
you're not different. You'relike one of us. But you know, we
need to acknowledge ourdifferences to them, be proud of
them or to understand them. Butthen I think if you're going
through experiences where you'renot vocalising, what's
happening, if you're havingdisturbing experiences, which
(17:35):
are making you uncomfortable,but you're not speaking about
them, because you don't feel youhave a safe space to say that,
there's, there's those parts ofyou become fragmented, right?
You become fractured. So thoseparts that you start become less
and less whole, because you'renot speaking to your full
experience. There's a retreat,there's, there's a, there's an
(17:57):
inwardness and there's a there'sa self silencing, and with that,
you know, that's, that's whererepression can happen. That's,
that's quite dangerous in termsof the realms of, of trauma and,
and these kind of day to dayexperiences. I guess that's what
I mean by things can get heavy.So it's important to, I think,
check in with that and find waysof speaking, to release to move
(18:17):
through and to process you know,but yeah, I don't know, it's
just that there is somethingthat in the way that you move
through these spaces, I guessthat, that you that can be
exhausting, that can beexhausting. I have to check in
(18:37):
with that and get a sense of,you know, like, how am I
feeling? Where's my energy at?am I feeling a certain way
because of this? And, you know,maybe I've got to get out of
town or or maybe I need to, youknow, cold cultivate some some
time with some friends thatunderstand my experience. And
(19:02):
there are, you know, there areother things that play but with
that particular experience as aperson of colour here, yeah,
that's something that can Ithink, if you're not careful,
can can be absorbed in actuallycould get a bit heavier after
some time.
Sovay Berriman (19:15):
I can, I could totally imagine that. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. And, and so as anartist and with the artwork you
make these this range is wealthof experience of being who you
(19:37):
are in Cornwall, and an AfricanCeltic person. Does that come
into your artwork? Do you think?Does it come into it
deliberately? Like did you setout to make work? That was did
you one day kind of make himwork?
Libita Sibungu (19:57):
out as much Data though. I mean, I've been on a
journey I after my degree I, youknow, I quit. I actually, in my
degree, what did I do? I had areally tough time at uni. And
then I presented in aperformance, I ate my birth
certificate and present, Ishouldn't say this life, this
type of thing that you justdon't, why am I doing this? I've
(20:19):
written it out. It doesn't existanymore. But basically, I, you
know, I decided that this newbeginning needed to happen. And
yeah, I didn't consider myselfas an artist for about five
years. I graduated in 2009. Andthen it was in 2014, that I
started to make work again, butit was that silencing. I
(20:43):
couldn't see in my curriculum,artists that reflected my
experience as a person ofcolour, the language of
blackness were the things thatyou know, that I understand that
I didn't have the vocabulary forthat. And so I became really,
really stuck. And it becamereally, very, very difficult
time for me and, and so in 2014,I started when I was in Bristol,
(21:06):
started to reform my practicethat was looking at community
and experience of black peoplearound my studio suppose at the
time and looking at broadcastingand radio, I think about
facilitation as a practice,which led me into eventually
working with sound, and thenthinking about installations.
But I, yeah, I was kind ofmoving in and around and then
(21:31):
started to look at like,performance and objects that I
could carry that would speak tothe landscape. And it felt like
the materials and some of theworks came before I realised
what they were talking to whatthey were speaking to. So
there's, I think I did this bigwork in 2017, where I carried
like these big rocks, bouldersthat looked like there were
(21:54):
these huge, like, granite,Cornish rocks, throughout
Venice. And but they were madeof polystyrene. But you know,
when I, when I look at thatwork, I didn't really know what
the work was about. But now I'mlike, Oh, of course, you know, I
wanted to speak to this kind ofthis experience of growing up in
(22:14):
Cornwall, but then also of mykind of displaced African
heritage and journeying. And soyeah, that kind of converged
into me, going straight at it, Ithink in 2019, and realising I
couldn't dance around what thiswork was anymore, and it was
(22:37):
about me speak about mypersonal, you know, my family
experience and my heritage.
Sovay Berriman (22:46):
And those, it was that piece that really
chimed with me around. I know,I've mentioned this to you
before, around the way thesegranite blocks are used to
delineate space and close downspace and control. Yeah, pool.
Libita Sibungu (23:07):
But also, I've just, I've just started to find
it really funny. Like when Iwhen I just started to learn and
like when I actually started tolook at these lumps of granite
as like, Okay, this is our wayof delineating space that is
just fucking hilarious. Like,this is where a car park is his
two giant granite block, like,you know, not like, I'm not
(23:31):
trying to make us out to bereally backward, but like, that
is just how it is when you startwhen when I started to look
around it things I was like,This is fucking funny. There are
two lumps of granite to tell usthat this is a zone. And and
that to be like, yeah, granite.You know, it is this place. You
(23:52):
know, when you look at thehouses, you just know it and but
also, I think there's somethingreally funny, you know, there's
a seriousness to all of this,but also there's there's a lot
of humour, I think,
Sovay Berriman (24:05):
in the way things are just plunked down,
like,
Libita Sibungu (24:09):
yeah, plunked down it's just it's just like
okay, that's that's just how itis that did the job why change
it
Sovay Berriman (24:17):
and it and it and it does then there's more
time to sit down have a cup oftea and eat you pasty that crew
Libita Sibungu (24:28):
Yeah, granite granite. I put granite into my
last show actually in 2019 loadsof Cornish I demanded Cornish
granite gravel be in my show. Asa homage to this place. But
yeah, I didn't know there'ssomething there's something
important I think aboutmaterials and and provenance and
(24:52):
what you what you ascribe tothem? That can be an interesting
symbolism. If you want to thinkof it in that way. Oh, no.
Sovay Berriman (25:01):
Yeah, yeah. Well, thinking, thinking about
that, that plunked down nervous.Again, it feels like this is
something Lehman, Georgia sortof touched upon as well like the
the space to make things happen.And being back in, like red
(25:25):
wreath and Falmouthrespectively, they felt like
there's space to make thingshappen, that people do just set
stuff up. Oh, yeah, here's afield, right? We've got an air
show on No, that's it done.Things are sometimes really put
together without much finesse.But they can also happen quite
(25:47):
quickly without too much fuss.And I don't need that fair. I
don't think that that issomething that's just COBOL. But
it certainly feels somethingthat is easy to happen here. And
comes into my work a bit. ADean, do any of those sorts of
(26:11):
attitudes come through?
Libita Sibungu (26:15):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I I don't know, if
I relate that to my, if I canrelate that to my Cornish
experience, in terms of just,you know, having my second wave
(26:35):
coming, being back here for ayear, but
certainly, I feel like I camethrough an artist led DIY.
Space, you know, when I cameback to my practice, in 2014,
and, you know, like, justputting things on with, you
(26:56):
know, with no money, I sawworking other jobs. And I think
there's something maybe aboutclass in that, you know, like,
not coming from economicallyprivileged backgrounds, and
therefore having to work acouple of part time jobs, at
(27:17):
least, and then have a studio.And then in the spare time, you
know, you do things. So, priorto the position that I'm in now,
you know, and whatever number ofyears ago, it was an economic
thing as well of how can we putstuff on how can we have
(27:38):
community you know, with withoutmuch and best use the resources
that we have, and I think that'sreflected my, the outcome of my
practices, you know, what, whatresources do I have to hand and,
and maybe in that more DIYenvironment, I was making more
(28:02):
performative works, you know,and like carrying these rocks
or, or broadcasting or beingpart of a collective because I
had to and and now, you know, Ihaven't been haven't been in the
studio really haven't had astudio for a few years. And, and
so my practice operates in adifferent way again, but I
wonder now, being back herebeing in Penzance? Yeah, what's
(28:29):
the pulse of the arts? And I'mcurious, I don't feel like I'm
in it, you know, I hang out incertain spots. I don't drive.
But I'm not. Yeah, I'm not sureof what's going on in terms of
artists led communities or DIYprojects here in pens out
(28:50):
specifically, you know? Yeah.What do you think like, because
we feel very regional within asmall region, it's, you know,
there are these, that's what I'mrealising. I'm trying to, like,
observe like, Okay, so there'skind of like, an art scene isn't
just there's an art scene in newthat there's an art scene and
(29:11):
there's about okay, there'sthese. Okay, there's a lot of
little pockets, right.
Sovay Berriman (29:18):
Yeah, I mean, I feel Cornwall's really, really
dispersed and broken up and hasreally poor connectivity between
the different areas, towns andvillages. And feels to me like
there's strong really strongidentities connected to certain
(29:44):
places. Like I'm, yeah, I wasborn in Penzance and grew up
around Campbell in and aroundCampbell and I went to secondary
school in Touray, but I don'tsort of connect Chertow um, for
of West. I'm from West Cornwall,and that sort of really part of
my identity and even I live inFalmouth now. And yeah, it's
(30:12):
lovely, lovely living inFalmouth and I make it made a
choice to come to the besidescase to have a different
experience when I moved backthen what, eight years ago but
it's difficult and then there'sBob mu more like completely
splits Cornwall as well. Like,yeah,
Libita Sibungu (30:31):
I that is elusive to
Sovay Berriman (30:33):
me. Like how often do people from West
Cornwall go up to North and EastCornwall?
Libita Sibungu (30:40):
I know if you're not from here. I mean, it seems
bonkers. But it's so true. Likemaybe do you think wherever you
go, there's always like a northsouth divide. You know, there's
always like, well, a coastal,
Sovay Berriman (30:54):
my mother moved to London in the early 80s,
though, she's lived there for areally long time. And she is
really disparaging about southof the river. If I'm when I
lived in depth for a time, andshe was just like, what?
Libita Sibungu (31:17):
Not just the East End but safe. So maybe it's
in our nature.
Sovay Berriman (31:23):
Yeah, to ascribe what to become connected to a
zone and feel that. Yeah, Imean, I, I wonder if it is yeah,
to an extent. And I wonder aboutthe geography of Cornwall? Sort
of. Also, we've got so many upsand downs and the wild spaces
you're talking about, like theMoors. Yeah. Oh, even now.
(31:45):
Harder to be in on. So I dothink they sort of key people in
their little conurbations andyou know, we don't have great
public transport doing we're notgoing to just like jump on the
central line and nip down toPenzance
Libita Sibungu (32:05):
No, that's an issue, you're like, you really
do need to drive, right. And ifyou don't drive here, then
there's, there's, you reallyexperience it in a different
this place in a different way.And I grew up not with, you
know, driving family. And Ithink I became aware later in
life when I was like, reflectingand being like, whoa, and just
seeing friends that havedifferent mobilities and in lots
(32:29):
of different ways, how theyexperienced growing up here and,
and their, their language aroundthe state. And it was just so
different, you know, there wasjust such a different
understanding of the histories,it was interesting hearing, you
know, the conversation withGiorgio, and Liam, like, around
these kind of, you know,esoteric, like sacred histories
(32:52):
and, and how inaccessible, thoseknowledges were, and maybe still
are, and thinking about thatphysically as well, like, who
has access to these heritagesites that tourists want to come
and see, and also people, youknow, with a certain
(33:14):
understanding, go to see,because I certainly know that I
didn't experience that stuff.You know, it was only when I did
this project in 2019, when Ithought I need to look at my
heritage here. And I need toface some things. And I need to
make peace with some things andwalk through some some things
that when I started to walkalong some of these paths, it
was amazing. But I also kind ofjust thought, wow, I just, I
(33:39):
didn't I didn't think I likedwalking, you know, I was just
like, ah, for years, I was like,you know, walking in it's
interesting here live sayingthat, because I was like, I hear
you. And I'm really differentnow. But like, I just didn't get
it because it wasn't a hobby.Like, why would you go for a
walk on the weekend? Like I'm intown, like we're gonna go out
(34:01):
and do something local andbecause we didn't drive it just
wasn't part of our my family'slike vocabulary or something to
do. And I wonder when I thinkabout kids from the estate as
well, like, they sure as hellwasn't you know, they were not
doing that as well. So I justthink there's, there's a big
there's a big gap in, in ourexperience here in terms of
(34:26):
mobility, economic, social, youknow, like physical mobility in
who can access these sites,claimed sites of heritage of
beauty of wonder. And so then ifyou live in a place where
everybody's talking about thisstuff, and yet you can't access
(34:47):
it, there's also thatinvisibility thing happening
again, where like the Cornishidentity is really hyper visible
in you know, in terms of thelanguage or you know, media, and
yet you're exposed variants isinvisible, in terms of you not
being within that narrative, andthat's where I have a problem
with dominant narratives.Because it does this eclipses,
(35:09):
you know, eclipses that it's notinclusive, is it? And sometimes
it's just not real. It's real toa certain part, but also like
how many people feel outside ofthat
Sovay Berriman (35:24):
there's so much dislocation in that. Like, if
there's, yeah, this dominantnarrative, this is what Cornish
and this is, this is the Cornishheritage will prancing around
merry maidens, like everyweekend or something, or always
spending time down at the beach.And actually, we know loads and
(35:46):
loads and loads of marine landare not doing that. Yeah. And
even if they aren't coastal,they're sort of facing away from
the beach because of all theother month, sort of mundane
disease, but essentials like dayjobs and how you get to a day
job.
Libita Sibungu (36:05):
Yeah, and transport. You know,
transportation is a big one. Butit's interesting, that
dislocation was interesting.
Sovay Berriman (36:15):
Huh? And that, going back to what you were
talking about there aroundfractured cultures? I mean, I'm
really interested in how wellnot necessarily how culture
become fractured. But how do we,as individuals put those things
(36:36):
for ourselves? To an extent? Andhow easy is it to claim
something that you can't access?Like you say, like, maybe you
can't get to, I don't know,Lani, and coin, or men and toe
or one of these places. But youknow, it's part of that
(36:57):
heritage. And you always see itpresented in this certain, in a
in a way. That is, maybe not,maybe not something you relate
Libita Sibungu (37:12):
to I suppose it's about storytelling, isn't
it? And who's speaking? Who'snarrating? And so, you know,
that those? That is true, isn'tit that is a part of Cornwall.
(37:32):
But then there are there areother parts and other
experiences that I think arelesser known. And so then that
makes you think about powerdynamics around who is speaking
and who, who are telling thestories. And, you know, what are
the intentions around,constantly telling the same
stories here, because that issomething that I found stifling.
(37:55):
Growing up here, and still, to acertain extent, is the level of
repetition around Cornwallheritage, you know, it's not to
say that the stories that aretold aren't true, but also, you
know, 50 years on, there havegot to be other experiences and
(38:16):
other histories emerging, thataren't just majorly you know,
marginalised experiences. And sothat gets me wondering about the
author and the narrator, and,and the writers of, you know,
the creators of these postcards.And I think there's something
(38:39):
important in I don't know, when,I guess when we think about
fragments, it's like anarchaeological dig or something.
You know, like, where are theother pieces and, and I think we
can stick something we can, youknow, make something again, this
(38:59):
is like your work, isn't it? Wemake something again, but it
won't ever be what it was. Butthat's okay. And sometimes when
there's the conversationsperhaps around Cornish identity
and where we're going, I thinkthere can be a desire to there's
(39:20):
a tension isn't there betweenthe past and where we're going,
and where we are now. And that'sit's quite disorientating and
quite difficult because youknow, we can't stay in the past
and we can't hark back. But wecan bring things forwards to
create something new and andrelevant and expressive and
(39:45):
important, but I think it's whenyou don't have the perspective
on on what you're digging whatyou know what the what what
you're finding on the site. It'shave these little fragments,
isn't it?
Sovay Berriman (40:02):
Hmm. And then there's, I mean, this really
connects to that. Okay? So ifyou're real rebuilding those
narratives, or building a newnarrative, with these fragments
that you find, then who? Who isit? He's rebuilding that
(40:26):
narrative or writing that newnarrative? And who is it for?
And who's it for? And hit andwho does that? Who does it seek
to include?
Libita Sibungu (40:38):
And include? Inclusion is really important.
Yeah.
Sovay Berriman (40:42):
And and we spoke, Georgia spake a bit about
and those tensions around what Isort of picked up that it was
around there is that changing?And being open to that shift?
(41:02):
But also, there's a griefattached to it and, and fear
around? Am I going to beincluded in that narrative? In
that new narrative?
Libita Sibungu (41:15):
I think when there's a like a feeling of a
loss of identity there, there isthere is fear. And I think a lot
of strange things can happen.And I you know, when you when
you ask someone what it is to beCornish
it's a really we all got adifferent idea about that,
(41:40):
haven't we?
Sovay Berriman (41:45):
I went to red reef pride on Saturday. I did
you and that was awesome. Itreally what I loved about that
was it brought together youknow, on a really personal
level, like my hopes andambitions for Cornwall, and my
(42:06):
beliefs of Cornwall. And what Iwill say like, my sort of
historic life, sort oftraditional life of como se,
like, old Cornish lady standingoutside the pasty shop going,
lovely, it's beautiful. And thenalso this enormous, like, this
(42:29):
huge pride flag rolling downbeing filled up for, like a
massive blast is like blastingout a load of Freddie Mercury.
And like, some gazes of wingsand gold hot pants, like, on car
night, for me, is thatcompletely summed up where it is
(42:56):
and where it's going, in my sortof in my fantasy world.
Libita Sibungu (43:03):
So that, but that also sounds like
intergenerational as well. Youknow, how do we I think there's
maybe something aboutintergenerational conversations
that are really important interms of like, rebuilding or
constructing, reconstructingwhatever, this new site or place
(43:27):
old places, you know, becausethat sounds like, you know, that
kind of mash up in one place,and that kind of wild spirit of,
of a number of things happeningat the same time in a, you know,
in a kind of chaotic cohesion.That's working. And that's, that
(43:49):
also feels that feels like here,right? In a lot of ways, like
there's so and just, you know,I'm thinking about a town
setting. And this happens incities as well, of course, but
just where there's there is alevel of understanding isn't
there, and cohesion,cooperation, something
(44:13):
happening, that allows it all tohappen at the same time? And I
think, with gentrification, orwith these kinds of railroading,
fast paced projects as a kind ofhomogeny that happens that maybe
like drops out some of that, youknow, we've said edge we've said
(44:37):
wildness, just that kind ofmashup of like daily life of
people being in a spacetogether. You know, like people
hanging out on a bench. Youknow, maybe there's a gallery or
something going on. There's acouple of the old shops, you
know, and we have a like yearlycarnival that brings everyone
(44:58):
together or whatever you There'sall those things need to happen
in their own small way at thesame time.
Sovay Berriman (45:09):
Yeah. And there's that's where there's
this, I think class comes intothis as well. In in that moment
of, it's not about homogenising.Like, it's not I don't know what
it is when I talked about this,but homogenising or smoothing
(45:30):
those edges. Is is thefrightening thing. Yeah, yeah.
It should, it should be likethis pipe down. Yeah. You know,
yeah. Actually, it's thatpeeling paint is that unfurling,
it's what it's what the, like,80% humidity or whatever it is
that we have here does to almostevery single material that, that
(45:57):
opens up these cracks for allsorts of things to come
together. And I read the sort ofgentrification in the class sort
of dynamic is trying toendeavouring to smooth down
those feelings. Yeah. Anythoughts on that? On those? On
(46:30):
my class comes into that?
Libita Sibungu (46:33):
I don't know. I think I think it maybe not so
directly, I think class andaccess and maybe like spatial
engineering, I think that justthat weaves in, in and out of
these conversations. And I don'tknow, there's just still like an
(46:56):
undertone for me about, like,when you're a person of colour
here, you are constantly assumedthat you're not from here. It's
terms of just of that, likepeeling or if that like claiming
of land or in terms of like thatmash up of what works. There's
(47:18):
still that, that lens of like,but where, you know, where are
you from? That kind ofdatabases, you know, Stu bases
so much that if you're, youknow, if one of your parents is
from here, your grandparent, itdoesn't matter. Like you can go
(47:42):
into all the validation aroundlike whatever that passport is
to your to your credentials ofbeing here, but if you it feels
like to me and you know, I'msure to a lot of other POCs.
That when and this is but thisis also Penzance, right? I'm
(48:03):
down here. And I'm sure in Truroand Falmouth and other places is
a different experience. Butthere is, yeah, just just the
assumption that when you are notwhite, when you're a person of
colour, that you're already fromanother place. And it just it's
(48:24):
just, it's just an undertone,you know, that just the basis so
much around. Maybe around thereclaiming of heritage. It kind
of just shifts, shifts thefoundation of it's a different
(48:45):
start point to the conversationsaround Cornish identity when you
have mixed ancestry or when youare Corniche. But you are told
quite regularly or ask quiteregularly, where are you from?
It just creates a differentbuilding foundation for whatever
(49:06):
the house is that comes on top.So it's like the base the
structure, the perspective, inmy mind, is just so it's just
different. So it's almost likewhen we're when we're talking
about this landscape, and youknow, like I love like mines,
(49:26):
and as part of my heritage and Ithink they're super fascinating.
But that's what I love thesubterranean as well, you know,
there's this empty caverns belowus that also have the potential
for so much in terms of likealternative, alternative energy,
sustainable energy systems aswell and think about geothermal
energy. But anyway, I digress.There's something there in the
(49:50):
subterranean realm to thinkabout what can come like what's
already under us that's quitemurky and maybe toxic and here
It's in, you know, mines areally good analogy for it. But
then, you know, water can bepumped in, we can go to the S
corp, he can come up andsomething sustainable could come
(50:10):
through. But I think there'ssomething about that base and
the conversation around manyperspectives, which is why these
conversations are reallyimportant. My perspective here
being really important, just asmuch as everyone else is, that
perhaps helps us all bring inthese kinds of materials or
components into like, what isgoing on under there to include
(50:37):
those toxic parts as well. Andthose rotten parts and those
eroded parts into us making andbuilding a foundation? I don't
know if that makes sense. Butthat's kind of the best way to
get to it in my mind's eye.
Sovay Berriman (50:55):
I will I think it's really essential to think
about that. The role of thoseminers in the day of sporer,
sort of when talk about it canbe spoken about really proudly,
the Cornish Diaspora. Yeah,yeah. But that Cornish diaspora
is really connected to a wholeother project.
Libita Sibungu (51:19):
colonial legacy. Yeah. A very violent colonial
project. And, yeah, that's that,again, is, you know, like a
dominant narrative that thatneeds to be updated. And that's,
you know, it's not about aroading history, because the
truth is, what the truth is,it's just about including other
(51:42):
histories and other narrativesthat make it a fuller truer
reflection of something that hashappened, right. And, you know,
I've, I've looked at the KresenKernow website, and they've got,
you know, a whole black historysection, and a whole like, you
(52:02):
know, Cornish, this Bora andcolonial legacy project. So
there's, there's work that'sbeing done that I think is
really important. And again,back to that work of like,
inclusivity, of bringinginclusivity into, into the
narratives and the conversationsand also, you know, when I was
(52:25):
listening to Liam and Georgia,there was this sense that I can
identify with as well, which islike, there's just also
something you don't know, that'slike a bit of disease. When you
start to try and place what'shappening with identity with
place, in terms of, you know,the specifics of Cornwall, like,
(52:49):
there's also something going on,and I've had conversations with
friends where we can't, youknow, maybe there's like an
anger. And it's like, I don'tknow where that anger is, like,
I feel angry about something todo with, like the rate of change
here. But I don't know what thatis to do with. And there's
(53:14):
something great as well about,you know, coming back, and
having so much more choicearound, you know, like food and
drink and sharps and somegalleries that I absolutely
embrace and love, but I totallyidentify with, I think what you
all were saying about therebeing something that is unknown
(53:37):
and uncomfortable going oninternally about this, that is
hard to even place. But it'simportant to say also, like, you
know, I don't know, but I havefeelings coming up that that are
kind of conflicting. And and,yeah, I've certainly felt you
know, a medley of emotions andideas about the Cornish identity
(54:02):
and I don't know, like nationstates and, you know, borders.
And, and these things arechallenging for me, you know, I
just, they're just, they're justreally challenging notions. What
are we putting out there interms of like, what's reflecting
us now? There needs to be someother reflections about our
(54:26):
contemporary landscape thatbring in you know, are entangled
histories as well, of course,but I think this is where the
role of artists is reallyexciting and interesting
and important, right?
Sovay Berriman (54:41):
Yeah, totally. Totally. Thanks so much Libita
that was like so generous, andthoughtful.
Libita Sibungu (54:53):
Thank you so much. Sovay for hosting these
conversations are really, reallyimportant and yeah, Thank you
for the invitation.
Sovay Berriman (55:01):
Meur ras, a’gas goslowes, thank you for
listening. further episodes ofthe MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh
The MESKLA | Brewyon Drudhpodcast and project has been
made possible due to a wealth ofinkind help and support for many
parties, including the LowenderPeran festival. Gorsedh Kernow,
Cornwall Council's Cornishlanguage office, Kowethas an
yeth Kernewek, Cornwallneighbourhoods for change and
Falmouth University Falmouth campus. The project has been
supported using public fundingby the National Lottery through
Arts Council England, andfurther funding has been
gratefully received fromHistoric England by Redruth Unlimited.
Meur ras dhywgh a'gas termyn,agas gweles. Thank you for your
podcast can be find on mywebsite Sovay berriman.co.uk.
(55:24):
That's sovayberriman.co.uk Whereyou also find guest's
biographies and a resource pageof links to further reading on
the topics discussed. If youfeel inspired to join the MESKLA
(55:48):
conversation about contemporaryCornish cultural identity,
please get in touch with meSovay Berriman. via my website
or social media, you'll findMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh on
Facebook, Instagram, andTwitter.
(56:31):
time. See you later.
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