MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh #2 A Conversation with Artists Part 1

The push and pull of connection to place - belonging, othering, disconnection, discrimination and barriers imposed by others. Pace and space, drekly does it, wildness, rough edges, more commodification, and what just is. 

 

Artists Libita Sibungu, Georgia Gendall, &  Liam Jolly share their experiences of growing up in Cornwall & becoming artists. They also talk about how their relationship to Cornwall has shifted over the years and how it plays out in their work.

 

We had planned to all be in a room together to have this conversation. But we were meeting on one of the hottest days of the year, when a storm brought the first rain for weeks and disrupted rail and road travel and took out some mobile masts. In very Cornish fashion we were disrupted by weather, and we couldn’t all be in the same place, so we recorded the conversation in two parts.

 

This is Part 1, I am joined by Georgia and Liam. Georgia is an artist, gardener, baker and member of the band ShagRat. Georgia has set up projects such as The Allotment Club, Residency in Shed and Forced Collaboration. Liam is an artist, curator and member of the band Disco Roccoco. Liam also set-up and runs the Redruth gallery, Auction House. 

 

Please note: These podcasts were recorded in different locations and with a range of equipment. As such the sound quality varies and at times external factors are more present than ideal in the recordings.

 

Govenek a'm beus hwi dhe omlowenhe goslowes orto/ I hope you enjoy listening

Episode Transcript

Sovay Berriman (00:00):
Dydh da ha dynnargh pub huni dhe bodkastow
MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh ostyesgenev, Sovay Berriman. Hello

(00:25):
and welcome everyone to theMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh podcasts,
hosted by me Sovay Berriman.MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh is a
multi platform project, usingsculpture making and
conversation to explorecontemporary Cornish cultural
identity. Through workshops,podcasts, a symposium, and an

(00:50):
exhibition. The project invitespeople to share their
experiences of identity andCornwall, and their views on
Cornish culture and itsrelationship to land, language,
heritage, tourism, the Cornishdiaspora, and much, much more.
These podcasts recordConversations with guests whose

(01:14):
research or lived experiencetouches on the project themes.
The views, thoughts and opinionsexpressed the speaker's own. All
conversations are carried outwith a spirit of generosity and
openness, creating space for thediscussions to twist and turn.
And I'm very grateful to all whohave taken part.

(01:39):
This podcast is recorded in twoparts. Artists Libita Sibungu
Georgia Gendall, Liam Jolly andI had planned to be in a room
together to talk about ourrelationships with Cornwall. But
we were meeting on one of thehottest days of the year, when a
storm brought the first rain forweeks and disrupted rail and

(02:02):
road travel and took out somemobile masts. Due to the
disruptions. We couldn't all bein the same place. So we
recorded the conversation in twoparts. This is part one, I'm
joined by Georgia and Liam.Georgia is an artist,
gardener,baker and member of theband Shagrat. Georgia has set up

(02:25):
projects such as the AllotmentClub, Residency in a Shed and
Forced Collaboration. Liam is anartist, curator and member of
the band Disco Rococo he alsoset up and runs the Redruth
gallery Auction House. We jointhe conversation with Liam
telling us about being born andgrowing up in Redruth.

Liam Jolly (02:49):
I yeah, I grew up here. I was born here, born in
Redruth a long time ago. Andyes, I grew up in the town, went
to school, here secondaryschool, although I started sixth
form here then escaped. And wemoved out of out of court when
our outcome we're out of out oftown moves over towards sort of

(03:10):
parent Portway. So we're kind oflike teenage years we're kind of
spent in that direction, sort ofNewquay area, I suppose
Perranporth and then went off todo the uni thing and plans
really not to have come backagain, but many years later,
here I am back in Redruth. So,yeah. Which was probably

(03:32):
something I never planned. Yeah,but actually very happy about
now. But

Sovay Berriman (03:37):
that's interesting. We might come back
but what about you, Georgia,

Georgia Gendall (03:45):
I grew up in Falmouth born in Cornwall. And
yeah, did went to school theredid just was there and then did
my uni stint away as well. Butcame back. I was away for five
years and came back six or sevenyears ago, so yeah, but I unlike

(04:05):
Liam, Liam. And like, Liam, Ialways imagined myself back
here. There was no yeah, when Ileft it was just to be able to
come back again. That's so yeah.Maybe a bit of a different
relationship with it. Was that

Liam Jolly (04:21):
come back to Falmouth or Cornwall generally.

Georgia Gendall (04:25):
Falmouth is just my home. Yeah. And I
struggle to see myself anywhereelse in Cornwall, but yeah,
okay.

Sovay Berriman (04:38):
What helped you find that pathway? If it's a
positive thing or not, to be anartist to work as an artist it
was with how did you come aboutthat?

Georgia Gendall (04:52):
For me, um, I don't necessarily know I think
in school, it was like, maybethe only thing that I I was good
at or got like any praise for atall. So it sort of felt like
something I should do, and myparents in the creative
industries, so it was sort offelt like something that was

(05:13):
like in me and my sister. Andthen yeah, I just, I think it is
just because it was the onlything that I got any praise for
but then I did the found I sortof followed in my sister's
footsteps to the foundation atFalmouth. And it sort of opened
my eyes to what art could be,because I could never be like,

(05:34):
just a painter, just a sculpturesculptor, just whatever. So just
learning that it can be. It'ssuch a broad thing, just so I
was sold, because I could justdo everything that I wanted to
do under this umbrella. Andbeing an artist, you chose to go

(05:54):
away

Sovay Berriman (05:57):
to study for degree. What was that? What was
the sort of thinking behindthat?

Georgia Gendall (06:06):
Just sort of like I guess that's what I have
to do. There wasn't I didn'treally think about it just felt
like something everyone did. Andafter you after Foundation,
everyone was in foundation.Everyone was applying for the
unis and I literally just pickeda unit that I'd heard of before,
which was St. Martin's and Ihadn't I didn't know of any

(06:27):
other unis. It was just someonethat worked for my mum had gone
there. And she said, I've heardthis is quite good art school.
So I applied and I got in and Ijust went because that's what I
heard. It was an okay one. So Idid that. So there was literally
no yeah. Yeah, there was noformula to it. I wasn't sat at
home like, like, researchingstrategy. Yeah, like my whole

(06:51):
life now, though, it was just aseries of a series of, like,
events that took me there.

Sovay Berriman (06:59):
Cool. What about you Liam?

Liam Jolly (07:02):
Yes, I guess similarly to Georgia actually,
like, I mean, it was all Iguess, through education, it's
anything I ever seem to be anygood at. You know, like, when we
have art class at school. And,you know, you'd get praised by
the teachers anytime it everhappened. So similar, similar
story to you, Georgia, but Iguess I'd always I always knew

(07:23):
that that was what I wanted todo. I don't know why I knew
that. But it was like a want tobe an artist, you know. I don't
think I had any idea what thatreally meant, at that point. And
then went to kind of did sort ofSixth Form thing at the time, it
was a gym BBQ, when that was athing. And it was just art
design. So just spent all daydoing art design, which is

(07:44):
fantastic. And then I was reallyserious about I was painting a
lot. And I was really seriousabout being an artist. And I
remember my my sixth form, tutorsaid, You need to go to
university, if you're seriousabout this, and that had never
ever, like, even becomesomething that I thought could
be a possibility, you know, andI was not interested at all as

(08:07):
like now and it's not it's notfor me, you know, but she was
like, you're not gonna be ableto compete at all. Like, if
you're serious about this,that's what you have to go and
do. So I was very unsure ofthat. And yeah, it just seemed
like it's that's what otherpeople do. You know, so to clear
out actually and, and sort ofwas still at night, I really
want to do this then a bit likeusual, I didn't really know

(08:31):
where, how and a friend of minewent to the University of hearts
JB gun, the head of me, wereborn on the same day in Redruth.
And he was like, he went there,he said, it was good. So then
there was no, there was no kindof I wish now like looking back
that I'd done a bit moreresearch, but it was good. You

(08:51):
know, it was a good a good time.And you know, and I think being
from Cornwall you know, the onlysort of art but I was the first
time I went to an art goes likeTate in 95. I think we've six
forms first time sort ofcontemporary art and that was
like,

Sovay Berriman (09:07):
going and just as specified that would have
been Tate London.

Liam Jolly (09:11):
No, this takes no sorry. That's like a school
trip. And I was just like, oh mygod, this is amazing, like the
low the lanyards and the Frost'sand all those sort of abstract
paintings. And I was like,that's why it's amazing. I was
banging into Picasso, I thoughtthat was the pinnacle of it, you
know, and I didn't know thatthis whole other world of art
existed until I did go to Londonspecifically to see a real

(09:34):
Picasso and happen to just swingby the Turner Prize that day is
October 96. and had my mindcompletely blown. And I was I
have no idea about what art isor what an artist is. So I've
got a lot to do. I've got a lotof work to do. And I think at
that point, I realised thatactually Cornwall wasn't gonna
give that to me because I hadI'd been here thinking I've got

(09:56):
this sussed I know what it is,and then had my mind blown in
London. I see in the TurnerPrize seems like there's a whole
other world out here. And Isuppose that's where I thought I
need to be here. This is whatthis is where it's happening,
you know? I mean, we're talkingsort of 96. So things have
changed a lot since but I thinkyeah, that was, and in terms of
continuing, it was finishinguniversity, still being dead set

(10:21):
on this, what I'm gonna do andsort of ended up going back to
Cornwall because of money, youknow, working part time in a
record store, still being anartist delay. And it's just been
a really long, arduous time tokeep trying to do it. So. But
again, that's another longestYeah, perhaps come back to
later.

Sovay Berriman (10:40):
But Hi. So how do you find so you came back to
Cornwall because of money? Andhow do you how did you find
after those experiences ofstudying sort of just outside
London and in London, comingback to Cornwall, and trying to
continue your practices ascontemporary artists, I suppose.

Georgia Gendall (11:05):
It took a few years to find any sort of feet
in it. I think my when I left,like just yet. So Liam said, he
went and saw to the Tate and sawlike, big abstract paintings.
And that was something that hewas like, that's what I need to

(11:25):
be doing. And for me, I alwayswas, like, I'd see art or what
was in a lot of traditionalgalleries. And that was never, I
would see it and be like, stillnot me, it's still not me. Like,
like, it's just still nothitting the spot. And it was

(11:46):
only when I moved to London thatI just learned that it could be
so much more. But I still hadthis whole like thing of like,
I'm just not sure what what partof its me but so like that, in
my uni course was nurtured. AndI was very much like around
people doing something, thingsthat are a bit more, just a bit
different to the norm. So comingback to Cornwall, it was yeah,

(12:09):
it was quite confusing, becauseI had to sort of slightly find,
find slightly different pocketsof art and find different
people. And yeah, becausethere's, it's very accessible or
not accessible. But you can veryeasily see paintings in Cornwall
and sculptures and Cornwall andseascapes and all that. But it's

(12:30):
you have to, like scratch thesurface a bit to find people
having other conversations andpeople doing things a bit
differently. So yeah, movingback was like a few years of
working out a bit and actuallystarting my own things that that
maybe invited that to me insteadof trying to find it in

(12:51):
different ways. So yeah, I, Iended up starting things. I
think that was my sort of way ofcoping with Cornwall, and it
being quite a bit quite a bigart scene, like geographically.
There's a lot of miles between.Yeah, it's spread out. So it's
not Yeah, you have to? I don'tknow. Yeah. What about you?

Liam Jolly (13:16):
I think, I think we're quite similar in terms of
like, me, sort of instigated ourown thing. Yeah,

Georgia Gendall (13:22):
a little bit. I

Liam Jolly (13:22):
mean, when I came back as early noughties, and I
felt like there was just nothinghere, like, you know, I think I
mean, savour your room, but thenI mean, I didn't think there was
really like, it wasn't therewasn't many artists run
projects, when it's not that theexchange didn't exist. At that
point, it was just noodling. Andtakes knives. And it didn't feel

(13:43):
like, you know, talking aboutsort of contemporary, like
critically engaged contemporaryart real, you know, new stuff, I
still felt was just seeing,like, the old stuff, the old
good stuff, you know, and

Sovay Berriman (13:54):
there was there was like, just to give a sort of
shout to pen with artists ledprojects help. So they they had
there were these moments orthings like flaring up. But
yeah, they said they wouldcertainly wasn't that sort of
structure of support around, youknow, to help them continue, but
it felt

Liam Jolly (14:14):
hard to kind of work out where those things were, and
how to access them. And, yeah,so I mean, I, I just kind of set
up shop in my mom's Garriage asa studio, and then had a few
shows, like, out of Columbus, hewas continuing continuing to
make stuff. But then it was justsort of found it was getting

(14:37):
harder and harder, you know, andjust working in a shop when I
was looking at a record shop,which was fun anyway, and
playing in bands. And to behonest, I was like, Oh, I'm
working part time. So I could bean artist, but I think the
reality was that most of thetime, I was just kind of having
a good time with my friendsplaying in bands and, you know,
talking about records in a shop.It was, you know, the art was
kind of like, we'll get back tothat in a bit, you know? And

(14:59):
yeah, so it took it took a longtime. It just it just felt that
there's no one to engage with.Like there was no. Like, now
there's loads of us. We've gotloads of loads of art powers to
talk to and have a coffee with,but it didn't feel it was any
until I think it's about 2000.And where you'll tell me Sovay,
when you're each show at Crowderwas because that was the sort of
hallelujah moment for me. Like,walking into my old school and

(15:24):
there being this art show peoplesaid, Oh, someone's doing an art
show up at the old school. And Iwas like, oh, it's gonna be
rubbish, right? Because, youknow, that was how cynical I was
about it. Oh, then walked in,and there was two fans on the
wall with a black bag, and hecarry blowing in the wind. And I
was like, I think everything'sgonna be alright. And so very
curated that show. So

Sovay Berriman (15:44):
with Jackie Knight, right. Okay, so that was
what year was that? That was2005. Right? Jesus? Yeah.
JACKIE, and I both just comeback from our Ma's in London.
And we're both like, okay, we'rejust going to have to do
something, aren't we? Now we'vegot here a bit like us saying

(16:06):
Georgia law. I really relate tothat. Strategy, I suppose of
deciding to do one's own stuff.Well, I'll just make it I'll
make it happen. Do you thinkthere's something about like, so
we've talked about doingindependent projects, artists

(16:28):
led projects? Is there anythingabout the framework the
landscape of Cornwall, theparticular situation that that
makes, encourages thatindependent sort of making, or
the reason I ask is because Ifound like, I've worked in

(16:51):
London, and, and Bristol, andankle and my experience,
sometimes being in a largeeconomization, certainly in
London, was almost feeling a bitsuffocated with all the stuff,
so much stuff to go on, likethat's going on my eyes is just
completely filled and brimming.And whenever I've been back in

(17:16):
Cornwall, I feel like I can sortof mentally breathe a bit more,
and there's space for me to makemy work. And I really relate
that to the particular landscapesituation of us being a
peninsula, there's been a lot ofsky, a lot of sea, there's a lot

(17:38):
of big open space. And then thatkind of, yeah, it has an impact
on my ability to create. Iwondered if he shared that
experience, or No,

Georgia Gendall (17:51):
I think I definitely think there's more
space to make things happenhere. And, and, and maybe being
someone from Cornwall in London,and, and then being someone from
Cornwall in Cornwall, I felt Ihad a bit more confidence to

(18:14):
make things happen in Cornwallthat I might have not felt in
London, just through belonging abit more and belonging in that
space and being able to holdspace through belonging that I
maybe gave me a bit moreconfidence to be able to say,
right, I'm gonna make this thinghappen. Or, right, I'm just

(18:35):
gonna, like, Yeah, I thinkthat's her maybe how I feel a
bit. A little bit.

Liam Jolly (18:41):
Yeah, I think I agree with you actually. And
what you're saying about beingLondon Sovay If there's too much
of things, you know, like when Ifirst came back to Cornwall, it
was an early noise thing. So I'mgonna talk in a musical sense
now. But like, there was like,London was alive with gigs. You
know, it's like the time andlike The Libertines, and the
strokes and all that kind oflike, the indie sleeves, which
is now come back again, fullcircle, it's now fashionable,
yet again. And, you know, we'dgo to like, indie club nights,

(19:05):
and there'd be four bands, cheapair, and it's, you know, you go
to sleep every night, I came atCornwall, loving that life. And
there was nothing, you know,there was literally nothing but
what I guess there was theopportunity was, was to start
something, you know, and spacesto go and have a chat. Like
there was a place in Truro thatfirst started putting on, like,
a little club night to kind ofdo this thing, get some bands,

(19:25):
you know, and that would havebeen impossible to do in London,
because it was it was there, youknow, so in that thing, you
talked about confidence,Georgia, yeah, it was kind of
like well, we can try somethinghere. And it doesn't matter like
so, start small. Build it up andI suppose doing that is
musically and artistically sinceit started because there is

(19:46):
space to try these things, Isuppose. Yeah.

Sovay Berriman (19:51):
Yeah. And then how do you find like, do you? Do
you feel that um, Being based inCornwall or coming from
Cornwall, a tool sort of playsout when you're working with

(20:11):
people from elsewhere or maybeshowing your work elsewhere or
trying to get gigs elsewhere? Ordoes it have a negative or a
positive impact or

Liam Jolly (20:22):
can't surf I've personally found to either
really neither two

Georgia Gendall (20:31):
of you, Georgia, I feel like for some of
the things I do, it's a bit oflike a unique selling point
sometimes. And I think that'sbecause maybe people who don't
aren't engaged in what'shappening in Cornwall can't
believe anything's happeninghere. And so a few times, I've

(20:52):
felt like it's a bit like it's abit of like a woe from Cornwall
and making things happen inCornwall, it felt felt like a
bit of a unique selling pointsometimes.

Liam Jolly (21:01):
But I've had it earlier, like, you know, quite
some time ago when people wouldbe like, surprised. Yeah. You
know what, you'd have anightclub? Yeah. I remember one.
Someone said to me, once theywere like, wait, what do you do
when you when you want to go outin Cornwall? Yeah, go to the pub
to, like club. And I was like,Yeah, you know, it. And I

(21:22):
remember that being a thing.Like, that seems to stop. I
mean, I don't know. It'sanymore. That was certainly
remembered that kind ofresponse. But I feel that like,
I mean, people have got betterunderstand, or maybe a skewed
understanding that Coleman isnow thanks to all the TV
programmes, and, you know, itfeels that people have got,
like, a bit more than Oh, theydo have electric and, you know,

(21:46):
stuff.

Georgia Gendall (21:46):
I think people are, like, just shocked that
you're not paying seascapes. Andyeah. And yeah, we have a
musical man, Liam are both inbands and have a musical thing.
And I think people are shockedthat of maybe the music that's
coming out of Cornwall, or thatthat could be possible here that
you wouldn't just be playing theviolin on a rock. About the sea.

(22:11):
I think that's the I thinkthere's just like a bit of
surprise suck because I mean,the TV shows.

Liam Jolly (22:17):
Yeah, and there's, there is a lot of that as well,
you know, even in sort of musicon this so much of that stuff.
It's not to knock it becausethere's places for everything,
but absolutely so much. Youknow, I think when I when I get
an artist come towards me nowwith an acoustic guitar talking
about the same time Alright,thanks me. You know, I want to
see shag rug, you know, I wantto see something different on

(22:38):
you know, I think I supposethings like what you're talking
about musically, George, likewith shag rat with what you do,
it's like, those things havestarted to pop up more people
are being more confident that hecan there is a platform for
those sorts of artists orartworks or projects to exist
now. Because there's anaudience. So whereas before,
people did want to hear thesongs about the see played by

(23:00):
the acoustic guy, yeah, youknow,

Georgia Gendall (23:02):
that's for fun growing up and calm. Well,
that's like, I just so wish Iknew that that could be here.
And I didn't, I didn't know thatthat could be here. What the
alternative? Yeah, totally likethat. Like, there was so it was
just so like one string of whatit could be. And though I was in

(23:24):
a creative family, and I knewthere was like this other bit,
but it was never what I knownow, but that's maybe just age
but I just hope that surfacepeople have access to
alternative have a slightlydifferent

Liam Jolly (23:39):
feeling to you on that. I guess being from
injuries, like I was alwaysaware of like a FX twin and
things like that, and thosekinds of things that were
happening here and like the kindof rave scene and like I feel
that there was a Reggie has beenvery edgy in many ways compared
to perhaps lots of other sort ofmore coastal towns. So I suppose

(24:01):
I always had an understandingthat there was something other
didn't know what that other was.And I suppose that's what you
said earlier about the artworkseeing seeing his paintings and
stuff here and then go intoLondon and knowing there was
something else yeah, whatfinding what that could be I
suppose that was yeah, that wasexciting. But

Sovay Berriman (24:20):
yeah, I sort of and maybe it is just about like
we're all different ages here. Ithink we cover three different
decades. So we've we've haddifferent experiences of sort of
growing up and yeah, and I livedin a lot of like winter let's
and pretty like not saying nicerental accommodations. So seeing

(24:46):
or perhaps experiencing bays,those rough edges. And what then
sort of frustrated me quite alot when I started working as an
artist. which I didn't go to unito my mid 20s. So when I came
back and I started working as anartist, what I felt frustrated

(25:08):
about was that sort of the moreprofessional kind of art stuff,
seem to not itself be aware ofthose rough edges. And I was
thinking, hang on, that's beenthere for decades, right? Like,
and also, we just really watcheda complete demise of like two

(25:31):
big mining towns of Campbell andred roof, through the 80s and
the 90s, like, slowly peelingaway, and say, like, I, I can
sort of get take that away frommy eyes. So I, I felt like there
was a moment in the 2000s, itwas almost sort of like right

(25:52):
now we're going to beprofessional creatives, and that
stuff doesn't exist. Peopledidn't want to see these rough
edges so much. And I do wonderabout tourism as well, if we're
trying to sell Cornwall as likea nice seaside place. Do
tourists want to see those roughedges? What do you guys think

(26:13):
about that?

Liam Jolly (26:15):
I'm just, I was just thinking of a conversation I had
a little while ago about it.Someone moved down here. And
they were talking about like,they were talking about my work
originally been like urban andfrom, you know, to urban, which
really means to urban, like, youknow, it's like, my work my
work. You know, it's always likethat, you know, and it's like,

(26:35):
and, and I thought a lot aboutit after and I thought is this
because you know, this issomeone who's moved from from
London to Cornwall livescoastal, and has this idea of
what Cornwall is. And I just wasthinking about, like, you know,
the sort of chocolate boxversion of Cornwall, and then
this rough edged inland versionof Cornwall that I know very

(26:58):
well. And that I thought thatmade absolute sense to me. And
funnily enough, Joel, do you wehad an open and we were starting
steps one day here at auctionhouse and you said oh my god, I
always forget how urban Redruthis. And I was like Oh good. It's
not just me making this up, thensomeone else has noticed, you
know, so

Sovay Berriman (27:16):
no, I've always felt Yeah, read read read wreath
and said, Oh, still maybe alight bulb emits of

Georgia Gendall (27:25):
true tours quite a bit sinister. It's

Sovay Berriman (27:27):
got a tower block.

Georgia Gendall (27:29):
Yeah, just just got three.

Sovay Berriman (27:31):
I don't know, I used to ride the lift in one
when I was a naughty childeating batter bits from the fish
and chip shop.

Liam Jolly (27:40):
It's really niche.

Sovay Berriman (27:45):
Again, that that that contrast of the romanticism
of the coastline and thecoastline is hard, but it has
been really romanticised thecontrast of that and the poverty
that exists in Cornwall. I mean,I feel like there's some thing

(28:08):
in some in both of your works.It's sometimes like making a
point about I don't know, someof that stuff like Georgia,
you've just done the wormcharming championships. And
well,

Georgia Gendall (28:25):
yeah, it's not well, the bloody newspapers are
twisted. Again, now she's DailyStar.

Sovay Berriman (28:36):
But it feels like there's something around
that that is, I mean, it's fun.But it's also making a point
about connection with land.Yeah,

Georgia Gendall (28:47):
absolutely. And I was thinking on the way here
and earlier, I sort of made thispoint, but because I'm from
here, I feel like I can claimthat space and make that happen.
I'd never dream of making thathappen somewhere that I didn't
know so well. Or feel like Icould claim that space in and

(29:09):
it's and that's interesting,because if I was in London, I
wouldn't or anywhere else. Iwouldn't make the work that I
feel like I'm allowed to makehere or Yeah, claim the space
that I felt like I'm allowed toclaim here.

Sovay Berriman (29:24):
And you're you're also drawing the
participants or the audiences.

Georgia Gendall (29:31):
Yah, yah, yah, yah, yah and, and sort of asked
him to do something that'sreally quite silly and takes a
lot of confidence. And that'sit's a big ask. So it's Yeah,
but Yeah, completely drawingattention to the land in a
really silly way. But in like aperfect way because, I mean, on
Sunday, we didn't have anyworms. And that was really

(29:53):
interesting because we're in themiddle of a massive heatwave
where hasn't rained in about amonth apart from today. So
that's People are learning aboutwhat it means. What were the
means to are in this. We did itin a community field and just
what it means to that space thatthat the towns built around.
Yeah, it's very interesting.

Sovay Berriman (30:14):
And you also have a project where you've been
growing out. It's a it's

Georgia Gendall (30:20):
sort of it's sort of my sister's project. But
I don't, I was I was growingsome corner shirts that are
granddad gave to us, thatspecies about that have sort of
a sort of extinct but my sisteris writing a PhD on it. And

(30:42):
she's trying to bring these oatsback. So I was growing these
oats that are granddad gave usthat he was growing. But they
weren't actually the cornershow. So I was going to them for
years. And then my sister cameback and researched it and said,
actually, they weren't the rightone. So I was trying to
circulate this out. There wasn'tactually the specific one. But

(31:04):
it still is out from Cornwalland yeah, but it's not that.
Yeah. But yeah, my sister's sortof doing that. And I'm
sidelining it. That's a

Sovay Berriman (31:13):
quite an interesting conversation. They
around like the eighth as a sortof metaphor for Cornish
identity. Absolutely. Yeah. Andthere's so much like we've we've
all heard people who say you canonly be Kunis. Yeah. If you're
like, great, great, great.Great. I don't know amoebas.

(31:37):
Were Cornish or you move tocomo, you know, we've got no
national minority status. Ioften feel well, if a nation you
can apply for nationhood, right,you can apply to be a citizen as
a nation. So if we're a nation,then can't people apply to be

(32:00):
citizens of the nation? And thatthat out project feels like
alright, so yeah, this is thisis the authentic ownership. Oh,
it isn't the authenticownership, but it still, it
still actually is the one.You've been growing it and

Georgia Gendall (32:19):
it's Yeah. And it was, and there was this
lovely link with my granddadgiving it to us that felt
really, like special, likehanded down from a Cornish man,
to the grandchildren to keepkeep going, which felt very
like, yeah, that felt symbolicof our Cornish nests. Yeah. And

(32:42):
it was nice.

Sovay Berriman (32:43):
Do you feel how do you feel about sort of
Cornish? SNESs? Liam.

Liam Jolly (32:51):
It's you know what, I've been thinking more and more
about this reason, I feel thatthis is becoming more of a
conversation generally. I mean,things I know, Seamus is
brilliant podcast. Why things? Imean, I was listening to that.
And it's like, I sort of asked,started asking myself lots of
questions, you know, so it was areal. It was a good sort of
trigger, I guess to dig into.Yeah, yeah. Duff. Definitely.

(33:12):
And it's stuff that I've beenthinking a bit more about over
the last few years. I think I'vealways just taken it for
granted. My dad's from London.And so I've always felt. I don't
know that I've always felt I getstrung out for saying this. But
I've always felt more at home inLondon, right? This way. And my

(33:34):
mum's from Redbooth. And youknow, her grand so that we read
truth as well. But we didn'tknow my mom's granddad. She
didn't know her dad. So there'sa bit of that Cornish pneus that
I don't know anything about.Which is to me kind of quite
fascinating. And then my dad'sside, and recently, I say
recently, 10 years ago, Mikefound my older brother who was

(33:55):
like my dad's oldest son from aprevious marriage, who's like
5253 now, so he's like, was bornin East London. He's a Cockney,
that lives in lives in CanveyIsland works in the city that
are so I know so much about thatside of my family that are all
EastEnders in London all spreadout now because they've all been

(34:17):
priced out. So I've always feltmore that the more of that made
sense to me. But alongside thatyou say about Cornish nurse, and
this might sound going a bittoo. I've always felt more read
truth. Oh, yeah. And Cornish.And I know, I don't mean to sort

(34:40):
of, like, get too small aboutit. But it's yeah, that's
that's, that's made more senseto me that I'm from read truth.
Right. And I don't know theseare the questions I've been
asking myself recently because,you know, there's a lot about
Coolmore that's me personally.Makes no sense. Right. You know,
I don't feel part of you know,and I don't know what that is. I
don't know what What that isbecause I'm sort of sort of

(35:02):
struggled with this thing ofbeing from rotary for years. And
like I said to you, I wanted toleave and get out of here was
just like people say, where areyou from? And go, Reg, if you
would be judged, you would belike, Oh, well, what, you know,
what are you doing here? Kind ofwhat's what's your opinion? You
know, there was a kind of,

Sovay Berriman (35:19):
well, that's this sort of classist. So yes,
she's around.

Liam Jolly (35:23):
Cool. I suppose that actually is crossover. Yeah,
because I suppose some of thatstuff of Cornwall felt beyond
me, you know, some of the frillynice, you know? What the word
but yeah, I mean, so be it fromRedbooth as a certain that that
grittiness that kind of, like,rough around the edges. pneus
that's it from Reggie, you know.So, you know, going to school

(35:46):
here was, you know, tough, youknow, it was a tough school, you
know, because because it is apoor town, you know, and, again,
I didn't fit, you know, playrugby. So it wasn't a sport kid,
you know, and was the kid whoany sort of did well, in the art
classes, bricks, nobody elsecared about it wants to leave
once we get out. And I thinkthat's for me, where the London

(36:08):
thing was the London bus, I'mgonna go there, be myself and
then coming back and then movingback to Truro. And then I met my
now wife, who was working inRedruth in the shelter, the
homeless charity, and she said,Oh, our landlord at the office
is building a flat, we couldlook at moving into it. And I
was like, there is no way I'mgoing back to red roof, you

(36:30):
know? Because it was this kindof like, this, this sort of,
like, I knew that's where I wasfrom, but it's almost I don't
want to, I don't want to go backthere. I've moved away from
that. It's like, you know, itwasn't all but it wasn't
positive, you know, and thereaction from people was, like,
I'm done, right? Anyway, here Iam. So drags drags my heels for

(36:52):
a while. And actually, now, Iwould not have it any other way.
I love being here. Now. Iabsolutely love it. And I feel
so proud now to be from Redreef. I like, you know, I feel
like it's, there's a goodcommunity here. And I mean, even
things like, you know, we sortof couple years ago started

(37:13):
going to the red line in town,which for years there, you said,
Johnny gets red light a bit likeno way. Because you get beat.
And it's, yeah, go into evengoes to the red line and
actually feel more part of thecommunity than ever now. Because
you walk in and they're like,you know, there's the kind of
the rhetoric of characters,shall we say, you know, people

(37:33):
are still we had a bigconversation recently, there's
all these conversations going onabout the future of rhetoric and
these people talking about whatit's going to be and it's what,
what it needs, what it doesn'tneed, and they sort of have a
turning their nose up at thingslike the red line, and that
thing he was talking aboutearlier, so they have tried to
pretend that the rough edgesaren't there. They feel that
that's been glossed over. AndI've keep now pulling that up

(37:53):
and saying to people, no,actually these people are here,
there's, there's still problemsin this town, but actually go
into places like the red lineand engaging with that part of
the community has actually mademe feel even more part of this
community. So yeah, I think Idon't know if that answers your
call your question aboutcoalition this, but I certainly
now feel much more myself, Iguess, here feel like I've my

(38:18):
places here now. And I supposewith the practice, and with all
the things we do, I'm now seeingthis is my base, this is my
home, this is where I love andthis where I want to do some
great things for the community.And for people that use the work
to try and go elsewhere andexplore and network and find
others. Beyond

Sovay Berriman (38:37):
that. Are you a tool driven by wanting to
demonstrate or make people lookat this is also what Kamala is,
this is yeah, you know, readtruth is here. And it's not just
that 100 ice creams, and

Liam Jolly (38:57):
Yeah, cuz I think that's, I get annoyed about that
generally with things whenpeople are just like, that's
that and that's all it can be.It's like, no, like, I don't
agree with that with anything.You know, I think there's
anything can be anything kinda,you know, and done. And, and,
and, you know, when I started toauction house here, like, have
conversations with people, andthere was a particular funding
thing I had a conversation with,and they said, Oh, you know, we,

(39:17):
we couldn't fund you becauseyou're talking about high art,
and it's not for commute. It'snot, you know, and I was like,
okay, the time I thought, fairenough, and over the period of
time that I've been running thisproject, I completely disagree
with that now, because I the wayI see it, is that yes, what we
did in is, is a niche thing. Butwhen

Sovay Berriman (39:37):
you say this project or just when that's in
house,

Liam Jolly (39:39):
yeah. So, you know, contemporary art, the things
that us guys do. Yeah, it'sniche in the grand scheme of
things, I guess. But I washaving this conversation with
Kevin Owens the record shortstore downstairs and he said the
other day was like them. Thething is, he said, I sell vinyl
records to people. That's alsoniche, you know, and we are
public facing here. The doorsare open and The amount of

(40:00):
people from this town to come into see what's going on. I've had
the most incredibleconversations with people in
this building about art thataren't artists, right? artists
coming in never looking thebugger off. And they, the people
from the town come in andthey're fascinated. And they, at
first like, what's what's goingon here? Right? But they engage,

(40:20):
they talk, we they people havecome back, there was a guy
recently brought his mom back,he said, Can I bring my mother
back? And I was like, Yeah,because for me doing things,
it's like I was from here, Imoved away, I went to study the
thing that I was passionateabout. And I just feel that I've
come back. And I just want to dowhat I do. In the town where I'm

(40:41):
from. So like you said, Georgia,maybe doing somewhere else might
not feel quite so natural. Butit's like, I feel like, I'm from
here, I'm allowed to do that,you know, but around all these
conversations about the town andwhat's going on, there's still
this thing of like, well, Isteal from having to sort of
fight to defend it, that this isalso allowed to be here, you

(41:02):
know, like, you know, I mean, anearly plan for the redevelopment
of this was that it was going tobecome a commercial gallery. And
it's, you know, that's how'sthat any more, you know, for the
community than what I'm doing?So, yeah, I mean, I, I'm very
much feel that, like, this is adifferent part, a different

(41:25):
version of Cornwall, that I wantpeople to also see, you know,
that this is here, under peoplehave addressed here. And this
not just brushed them under thecarpet, and try and sort of put
in French farmers markets andgentrify the place, which I know
I'm also now part of theproblem. Like, which I don't
feel necessarily great about butit's also that's trying to sort
of hold on to the reins of that.

Sovay Berriman (41:46):
I've often struggled with that actually,
like I want a flat whites onabsolutely joyous that I can get
an eight flat white and redroof. But I'm also really aware
of, of the potentialimplications of that around
gentrification and aroundexclusivity. And I suppose the

(42:09):
thing that I always strivestrive for, or is this sort of
campaign is that actually, it'sokay to one or to have like an
eight flower pie. At the sametime, as one can have a pint at
the red lights, or just have alittle chat with someone like,

(42:30):
in just somebody you don't evenknow in the street, you sat on
the same bench?

Georgia Gendall (42:34):
Yeah, it becomes a problem when those
things can't sit alongside eachother. And that's not awful.
That's the that's like the flatwhite being pulled above the the
day to day running of a town.

Liam Jolly (42:50):
And there's also something that's kind of
concerns me a lot actually isparticularly for red roof at the
moment. And I should imagineCamborne as well, is that as the
coast is kind of being sucked upby, you know, second home stuff,
it feels like, you know, that'sclosing in on us now, you know,

(43:11):
and it feels like we're thelast,

Georgia Gendall (43:13):
the tides. It really is. It does feel like
that it is but it's also like,that's just what is being
projected out of Cornwall, butthat's actually like, I mean,
like there's so much stuff thatstill like you know, I work for
a food charity in court inFalmouth, and it's being swamped

(43:34):
as well. And it's like, we run ameal service for people that
need it. And we have done it forthree years. And we're still
cooking for the same amount ofpeople. And it's just those
sorts of things are just gettingalso just getting Yeah, tides
come in around them and they'vebeen forgotten about but they're
still it's still happening. Andit's gonna. Yeah, I don't know.

(43:56):
It's

Sovay Berriman (43:57):
a decade they test the gentrification of
places like Falmouth in

Georgia Gendall (44:02):
100% Yeah.

Liam Jolly (44:04):
I mean, I suppose that was my sort of concern with
that thing of the tide coming inhere like say went with
lockdown, there was thisstories, which I'm sure happened
to overcome, but there's there'sstories of people buying houses
like that come in to see themand like the house prices, red
roof has gone through the roof.And there's, there's a lot of
that I kind of enjoy in terms ofthat sort of young professionals
moving here and sort of changingthe community slightly like, you

(44:25):
know, we were talking earlierabout some of the artists that
have moved to Cornwall, that,you know, they feel that they've
moved down from London orwhatever, they are actually
gonna stabilise the seats thatcome in to stay rather than
coming to go. So perhaps wedon't have that thing we were
talking about when I first movedback when there was fellow
there's nothing going on. Yeah,be artists, projects and stuff
will sort of sustain now andthings will we'll have a good

(44:47):
scene but you Yeah, but it'sthat. There's been lots of
conversations that oh, you know,we're looking at rent rates
because we've had, it's amazingand it's like, there's that I
guess what trying to say as itfeels like it's now getting its
own chocolate box version. Yeah.Yeah, if that makes sense, you
know? And that sort of makes mea bit nervous. I mean, we were

(45:09):
joking recently, because there'salways people moving in various
projects popping up underdeliver. And we were like, well,
we've, we were here one nightwith, with bands like Alison
Stewart, we were in fact,outside, we were talking about
this move, like, can everyonejust give us like, couple more
years, like, we've only just, wefeel like we've been there for
ages, just chipping away doingthings, and we've only got a
groove going on. Now it feelslike we've been swamped with all

(45:30):
this activity of people wantingto come and join in on the
party. And it's like, just comeback in a few years time. It's
like, Give us five minutes justto enjoy ourselves. I that I
remember, that's really smallminded. But that's what we were
saying.

Sovay Berriman (45:45):
No, it feels like that. Because that feels
like there's something in thatabout wanting to have your voice
heard, or like that tide comingin. All those analogies you've
just spoken about is like, isthere a threat of the sort of
place or the ground that youbase speaking about that you

(46:08):
kind of claim or connect withbeing I don't know, taken away,
or maybe that sounds too like,threatening, but that it's gonna
shift again, and it won't beyour space

Georgia Gendall (46:26):
is so difficult to talk about it because it's a,
it creates a, like a problemwithin you of like, wanting to
share, wanting to be inclusive.And that being exactly what,

(46:47):
like my works about sharingbeing inclusive, opening up the
space. I don't even know how toframe it, but there's definitely
still a territorial part of me,that feels feels it as well.
And, and I guess that also linksback to feeling Cornish being

(47:11):
allowed to, and feel like you'reallowed to do that. And then I
don't even know how to word itwithout sounding like.

Sovay Berriman (47:22):
I know, I know what you mean, I think about
some of that. Those tensionsthere is and totally wanting to
be open. Yeah. But like itpersonally, I can feel quite
vulnerability, like a fear ofI've home a safe place where I

(47:48):
know who I am. And where I canmake the kind of art I make and
chat to people on the street whoI know through like carrying my,
my brand or for like, goneschool with whatever. And that
being in some somewhere, somesort of a day like mythical day,

(48:13):
not understanding the fragilityand specialness, of have all
those little connections, andthe, and how easy they can be
broken and lost. And it'sinteresting, Liam talking about
the East End a bit there. Andlike I've, I've lived in

(48:36):
different parts of London, I'velived in a few different parts
of the East End in in plaster inStratford, and also Danny's,
Sophie's London in Deptford. Andif you look at their histories
of the clearances, andgentrification of East London,
like it's really, it's reallyscary, really, really horrible

(48:58):
stuff and breaking up withcommunities. And of course, you
know, the histories that Britainand indeed Cornish people have
been a part of in ripping upcommunities around the world. I
suppose. I feel an echo of someof the fears of that happening

(49:22):
here. And then on a really like,personal level feeling like
that, then we're where I go.Yeah, like, what? There is no
place then for me. Yeah.

Georgia Gendall (49:34):
Now you've just put it exactly how I wanted to
put it and changed my territoryon this to vulnerability, which
of course, a very similarthings. But I do think como
feels like a vulnerable place.And particularly with tourism
and the chocolate box version ofit being sent up the train line

(49:56):
for people to come and consumeAnd for people to come and live
here, which is brilliant. It'sjust it's a fragile thing. And
yeah, I feel that conflictwithin within me. And I don't
think there's an answer to theconflict. Or an easy way of

(50:18):
explaining it.

Liam Jolly (50:19):
No. I mean, you both articulate that same thing that
I was thinking to say itdifferently. But we're all
saying the same thing is I don'tthink you're right. There is no,
no answer to it, I suppose. Isuppose the awareness of it,
perhaps. Do you feel? Do youfeel you've become more aware of
it recently? Yeah, I do. Know Ido as well. Yeah. And I don't

(50:41):
know why that is. I don't knowif that's, as you know, it feels
like particularly so I'm justgonna read through it again, it
feels like it shifted veryquickly. Within five years,
though, all of a sudden, youknow, and it feels like it's
currently being sort ofturbocharged even further, you

(51:02):
know, to become this thing.There's lots of conversations
we've been to a few meetingswith, to hear about the plans
for the town. And it's like,this is all good. But just,
let's, you know, I brought it upactually, a meeting, we went to
someone's the lady said, howwould you register be if you
came back in 10 years? And therewas all these answers, like, we

(51:24):
would like it to be a sort of,you know, global scientific art
community and all these crazythings. And, and there was a few
sort of local businesses at thetable. And I was just like, I
would like it to actually bethat these people are still
here, that little coffee shopthat those guys run is still
here. Or maybe they've moved toa bigger coffee shop, you know,
and that person is still here.And that person is still there.

(51:47):
Because there was like a videothat I'd seen on YouTube,
probably about 10 years ago orso. And someone had done this
walk around with red roof, justfilming it. And it looks, it's
all boarded up. And it lookssort of you know, warzone. And I
was like, actually, if you gofind that video, you see what it
looks like now, it has changedand it is better. So let's just
let it do its thing. You know,that feels like this kind of

(52:08):
speeding up to kind of almostbulldoze, meet new and it's,
it's embrace what's here. And Isuppose that fragility and that
kind of nervousness that wecan't quite articulate or
answer. It's around that stuff.Of trying to protect that. A
little.

Georgia Gendall (52:26):
Yeah, yeah. And it's, I think there's the
there's like the chocolate boxversion of it, that's, that's a
problem. And then there's alsoother version of it, which is, I
think, due to like social media,of like, a lot of our histories
and mythologies, and folkloreand stuff being trendy, turned

(52:49):
into this trendy thing. That'svery much to do with social
media. And, and, and I feelprotective. Of that. I've really
feel protective of that. And Idon't really know, that's
another tension inside me that Idon't really know how to cope
with.

Sovay Berriman (53:09):
I have similarly eat.

Georgia Gendall (53:12):
I just don't know what to do about that.
Because it's just yeah, I'vefelt

Sovay Berriman (53:20):
particularly frustrated by the real interest
in the last few years. And thatsort of mysticism of, of
Cornwall sort of connects itreally sort of focusing on
Cornwall as this mystical placewith the standing stones with

(53:42):
these, like, amazing peoplelike, Oh, I feel cool, who know.
And I feel like that, that allall feels like part of a
heritage of otherness, andothering and that kind of like
aspects of colonialism actually,like taking off somewhere

(54:05):
without looking at the wholewithout understanding or
thinking about the implicationsof that will say, like, without
giving the time that the placeand those people have the place
perhaps need to catch up withthose conversations because if
something's just mundane andusual to you, it's not other and

(54:30):
it's not special, and it's notromantic. So it can take a
little while to shiftperspective. And like, almost
everyone in Cornwall laughs backdirectly right but there is
something there around just needa bit more time. It's kind of
what you were saying earlierabout like to process that

(54:54):
thinking and bearing in mindthat, that that mysticism that
that other stuff isn't just,that's not just the rare,
special exciting, they'reactually like, I don't know, a
May a random market still isalso rare and special and
exciting. And all of it is not,you know, not just that little

(55:22):
magical bit that looks grey in ain a Facebook paste stuff

Liam Jolly (55:27):
I sort of sort of made it earlier when I said
about about Cornish nurse and Isaid, well, a lot of it never
really made sense to me becausethat stuff didn't really it was
never on my radar to me. He'slike, ya know, we've got
standard stones. We live by thecoast of New York, this amazing
coastline and all that stuff.But you know, the, the myths,
the legends, just wasn't I justdidn't know about

Georgia Gendall (55:43):
and also just well, it just is like, yeah,
it's just, um, when you're fromit. It Yeah, it doesn't maybe. I
mean, yes, I have quite a lot ofit. We have no idea about
really, no, I, my, we grew upgoing and visiting my granny and
granddad. And he was a Cornishlanguage expert. So he wrote

(56:07):
several Cornish dictionaries.And yeah, it was a complete like
fanatic about the Cornishlanguage and Cornish culture.
And we used to go and visit themin their house and this guard,
and their house was like amuseum to Cornish Cornish nests.
And they saw on the walls,they'd have like, bows and

(56:27):
arrows, and like corn dolliesthey had made and it was an It
was literally like, insane. Andhe would talk you know, he the
dog was trained in Cornish. Andthey had all this she only she
like, had like, like, keptdoves. And she went and COO to
them and Cornish. And there wasjust this like, it was like

(56:50):
that, as a child. It was weirdto me. And it was this weird
world that I stepped into. Andwhen we went to stay there for
the weekend, we would be sort ofprocessing wool and like be put
in the barn and be so makingcorn dollies and like that. So
it's quite funny that then thisthis whole, like culture around
being cornishmen is being like,turned into this trendy thing.

(57:13):
Because to me, it's like it'slike, yes, it's almost like a
thing that I used to have to godo some weekends. And like, I
just wanted to be watching TV.Yeah. And so it just is. And
like, that's something I grew upwith. And so also the Cornish
language was something that Inever wanted to learn because to
me, it was something that oldpeople did, and it was they were

(57:34):
stuck in their way and like, andnow, since my grandpa has died,
and I've researched it, it'samazing. I want to learn all
about it. But it was neversomething that I wanted him to
pass on to me as a child orYeah, it was just like stuck in
their ways. Like, and it's sointeresting that it's like, sort
of this like, yeah, there'sYeah, I don't know. It's a it's

(57:57):
a funny tension with me and myfamily, like my family thing of
it just being a thing that is

Sovay Berriman (58:03):
I think that thing about it just being a
thing that is is reallyimportant. And that like I
always feel Cornish nurses, likegranite and solidity and like
laughing and carrying on andlike overcoming adversity, and

(58:25):
then having a relationship withthe land. And yeah, definitely
walking across the scrub land.And the old mind works. Yeah.
And, but it also just is, and itbeing sort of magic ified
somehow, it concerns me that ittakes something from it. Yeah. I

(58:47):
wondered if there was justanything else you wanted to add
about your, your particularartwork or practices or being
artists in Cornwall, maybe howyou see things might develop?
Or?

Liam Jolly (59:02):
So, I mean, I don't know, I don't know how to answer
that, actually. I mean, I don'tfeel that my work is necessarily
if we talk about Cornwall, Idon't feel that it's, um,
there's not much there. That's,I'm just as I'm saying that
actually, I'm also going aboutto contradict myself. So when I
was saying to you earlier aboutthis thing about being from

(59:23):
here, not named my sort of mymom's granddad, she didn't know
who was over blah. So this thingabout family and lineage and all
this stuff started to come intomy work. And so I've been doing
more and more sort of researchabout that. And this thing about
being in Redruth and kind ofmaking peace with the fact that
I'm here. There's that I'vebecome completely obsessed with

(59:44):
Cambray as this kind of like,anchor, if you like, I was very
aware of the fact and it waslocked down really that. I mean,
I never used to be a walker.Really, I would sort of go to
the gym. That was my exerciseand then when my wife would be
like you to come for a walk.We're like now I've been to the
gym. You know, I'd be quitehappy sitting at home getting on
with some work on my computer orsomething, you know, that
obviously locked down, we'll beable to go for our our day

(01:00:07):
exercise, I just sort of fell inlove with like that, actually,
and try to go out most days nowand spent, I spent an awful lot
of time calm brain just realisedthat walking around the town
through lockdown, and seeingseeing the car from different
perspectives and realising thatactually, for most of my life
that has been there, you know,this kind of thing, which is,

(01:00:31):
was just that it's just Cambrayis Josh just come very close,
that's home, you don't even haveto come over. But the more you
can kind of see it silhouettekind of you in the distance,
that's where we're going. Andstuff that I suppose it started
to sort of figure in my practicea bit more, which is something
that I would never have seencome in. I mean, I think sort of
collecting stones for knownpainting and colours and

(01:00:53):
sticking them on things. Like, Imean, with with my practice at
that moment is just, yeah, justkeeping going, I suppose. And
like I said earlier, trying tofind ways to sort of branch out,
being very aware of that I'mhere now. And like I say, made
peace with being here now andquite happy about being here.
But I don't want to be justhere, you know, on a sort of be

(01:01:14):
able to go to see things andtravel and network and meet
people in other places. BecauseI believe that, you know, that
thing about things can bedifferent things. And I think
we're gonna see in other,bringing other back kind of
keeps things exciting. So Ihaven't answered your question
at all, I've just waffled at youbut hasn't given you time to

(01:01:36):
think about what you're gonnasay.

Sovay Berriman (01:01:41):
Think about what you said there was just about it
being calm, grey didn't used tobe important to you. And now it
is it is that thing of it beingthere, and that it's always been
in your life, like looking at itout of the corner of your eye.

Liam Jolly (01:01:57):
But I think there's there's this thing really
quickly, sort of digressing veryslightly, but this this thing is
on Cambray. But I don't know,you can see obviously see both
coasts, and you can see quite aclear day, quite a way up. And
it's just this kind of feelingof being very small, and very
insignificant. And being awareof the things that have happened

(01:02:19):
on this land, over lots and lotsand lots and lots of years, you
know, and then kind of feelingabout where you fit into that,
you know, it's like, sitting inthe cups of sources, rocks, you
know, which are my faves. Like,how many people have done that?
I don't know, it's like thosesorts of conversations I have
with myself up there and justeven I'm gonna lean on a rock
and feeling that energy. It'slike, you know, I think it's a

(01:02:39):
bit of a, it's a bit of adriver. So like, well, what,
what, what, what am I saying?What's my point? Do you know? So
there's something quitewonderful about that, which is a
very new thing for me. Yes,great. sound cool. Yeah. It's
nice. It's nice. The heatwave?

Georgia Gendall (01:02:58):
Yeah, I don't know. I think I just want to
continue, like, working with theland work, like feeling it with
my hands. And just really tryand bring that into my work
more. And yeah, I think it'sthis thing of feeling that's

(01:03:19):
become more and more importantto me recently. And it's all
about my hands and where they'regoing and what they're touching.
And I think that is something Ijust have to keep on making sure
I do. Because it's so easy tojust like, shut the door. And
think that there are other waysof working particularly for me,

(01:03:40):
but there isn't any other way ofworking I have to go and feel in
order to be able to work. Soyeah, I think that's just
something I keep on happening tomake sure I do. And I'm
hopefully putting the wheels inmotion for that happen more
easily for me. So yeah, just tokeep on like, putting my hands

(01:04:00):
in the ground and and yeah,things things like that. And try
and like just respond to it. Andyeah, just keep on feeling

Sovay Berriman (01:04:10):
sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you both very
much. Now I only I've returnedback to coma laughter another
one of my away since in 2015 andnew tea being here and the
things that you to put on and doyou know amongst another great
group of people break now a partof what made me feel like Oh,

(01:04:32):
good, it's gonna be okay. I wasable to return return

Liam Jolly (01:04:37):
greatly. Yeah. Oh, thanks.

Sovay Berriman (01:04:39):
Meur ras, a’gas goslowes, thank you for
listening. further episodes ofthe MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh
podcast can be find on mywebsite Sovay berriman.co.uk.
That's sovayberriman.co.uk Whereyou also find guest's

(01:05:00):
biographies and a resource pageof links to further reading on
the topics discussed. If youfeel inspired to join the Mesker
conversation about contemporaryCornish cultural identity,
please get in touch with meSovay Berriman. via my website

(01:05:26):
or social media, you'll findmascula booya Andrews on
Facebook, Instagram, andTwitter. The mascula Breon
Drew's podcast and project hasbeen made possible due to a
wealth of inkind help andsupport for many parties,

(01:05:49):
including the Wendy parentfestival. Go Seth Curnow,
Cornwall Council's Cornishlanguage office Coworth,
Kowethas an yeth Kernewek,Cornwall neighbourhoods for
change and Falmouth UniversityFalmouth campus. The project

(01:06:12):
has been supported using publicfunding by the National Lottery
through Arts Council England,and further funding has been
gratefully received fromHistoric England by Redruth Unlimited.
Meur ras dhywgh a'gas termyn,agas gweles.

(01:06:33):
Thank you for your time. See youlater.