MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh #8 - A Conversation About Cornish Life & Lifestyle Cornwall, with Joanie Willett & Natasha Carthew - MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh

Episode Transcript
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Sovay Berriman (00:00):
Dydh da ha dynnargh pub huni dhe bodkastow
MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh ostyesgenev, Sovay Berriman. Hello

(00:25):
and welcome everyone to theMESKLA | Brewyon Drudh podcasts,
hosted by me Sovay Berriman.MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh is a
multi platform project, usingsculpture making and
conversation to explorecontemporary Cornish cultural
identity. Through workshops,podcasts, a symposium, and an

(00:50):
exhibition. The project invitespeople to share their
experiences of identity andCornwall, and their views on
Cornish culture and itsrelationship to land, language,
heritage, tourism, the Cornishdiaspora, and much, much more.
These podcasts recordConversations with guests whose

(01:14):
research or lived experiencetouches on the project themes.
The views, thoughts and opinionsexpressed are the speaker's own.
All conversations are carriedout with a spirit of generosity
and openness, creating space forthe discussions to twist and
turn. And I'm very grateful toall who have taken part.

(01:37):
For this eighth podcast, Iinvited Dr. Joanni Willett to
talk about socio economicsituations and lifestyle culture
in Cornwall and Joanie invitedNatasha Carthew to join her in
this conversation. NatashaCarthew is a working class

(01:59):
writer from Cornwall. Her newbook, undercurrent a Cornish
memoir of poverty, nature andresilience is a powerful
exploration of rural poverty,and a story of hope, beauty and
fierce resilience. undercurrentpublishes with coronet Hodder
and Stoughton in April 2023.Natasha is well known for

(02:24):
writing on socio economicissues, and has written
extensively on the subject ofhow authentic working class
voices are represented inliterature. She is founder and
artistic director of the workingclass Writers Festival and the
nature writing prize workingclass writers in association
with octopus Hashim Joanie is asenior lecturer in politics with

(02:49):
the University of Exeter and codirector of the Institute of
Cornish studies. Jenny'sresearch about social and
economic development in Cornwallis a deeply personal topic for
her, beginning with an awarenessthat many of her contemporaries
felt that there was littlefuture and Cornwall for their

(03:11):
children. Joanie begins ourconversation. Govenek a'm beus
hwi dhe omlowenhe goslowes orto.I hope you enjoy listening

Joanie Willett (03:24):
Hi, um, first of all, I really want to say that
it's been thank you so muchNatasha for agreeing to this
because I've been following yourwork for a little while. And I
really, really love it. I'm verymuch looking forward to your
next book. And so yeah, so Ijust wanted to start out really
with asking you about whatCornwall means to you as a place

(03:44):
and why it matters. If it does

Natasha Carthew (03:47):
Cornwall matters to me as a place as a
Cornish person. First andforemost, I'm born and raised
here. I live here still. Andreally, as a place it's, it's in
my heart, it's in the it's in mybones, salted my blood. Cornwall
is just is what makes me it'sbecause where I grew up, it's

(04:10):
because of my parents. It'severything really. So it's,
it's, for me, it's it's reallythe foundation of me as well.
And the foundation of me as awriter, and how far I've come I
suppose in my career.

It's really interesting, isn't it the way
the places that we that we grewup in and the kind of people
that were around the kinds ofthings that the way that we
create our own sense of meaningand stuff like that. It's really
interesting how important thatthen becomes in how we then end
up going and approaching theworld as well. But you said that

(04:47):
you're still you're still livingin Cornwall and I'm really very
much aware that how thatlifestyle calm was very middle
class. And, and realise reallyheavily on having like a good
solid income and all of thatkind of stuff. And I'm just
wondering about how how youmanaged to manage to stay here

(05:10):
how you've managed to make itin, keep to keep it going. And
to still be here.

Well, it's fine. Yeah, despite
everything I mean, so manypeople have had to move away,
whether it's for work or becausethey can't afford to live here.
For me, I'm very lucky becausemy partner has a proper job. She
works in education. So she earnsthe lion's share. I mean, as a
writer, you don't own a lotanyway, even though no matter

(05:36):
what, how big the the nextadvance I get as a writer, when
it comes back to you work itout. Over the course of a couple
of years, between hardback,paperback, all the payments are
split up, obviously. So you endup with not a lot and most
writers are minimum wage, andI'm a successful writer. So for
me, she has allowed me to livehere in Cornwall, in that

(05:58):
respect, otherwise, I wouldn'tbe able to, and I still can't
live anywhere near the villagewhere I grew up. I live in
inland in southeast Cornwall,the village where I grew up
houses, the average price is700,000. Yeah, so you know, as
for me, it's heartbreakingbecause when I go and visit, and
I walk on the beach, and I justsee all these houses. I mean, to

(06:20):
be fair, I kind of wouldn't wantto live there. Now. It's a
village called down Derry, andall the houses are so crammed
together, and they have, youknow, their balconies look at
over each other. And it's just,it's just a massive buildings
basically. So I can't, Icouldn't I can't live in the
village where I grew up, wheremy family grew up, where my
grandfather, great grandfather,they were builders, they built

(06:41):
the first affordable homes inthe village. So for me, I'm in
Cornwall, but I'm not perhaps bythe sea where I was born and
raised. And yeah, if I didn'thave a partner who was getting a
wage every month, then Iprobably wouldn't be able to
live here. Or I'd be living on acaravan site where lots of us do

(07:02):
you know, we are being pushedto, not to the perimeters
because that's the coast youknow, we're being brought into
the centre and a lot of us arehaving to move away and then you
can't get back. So you know,it's a kind of a fight. It's a
fight for a lot of us to stayhere and to be proud of being
Cornish Dale, and without peoplethinking oh, yeah, but you're

(07:23):
not we'll because sometimespeople might think we're not,
you know, we're kind ofmythological I think sometimes
as Cornish in Cornwall, becausethere's less and less of us, you
know, we move away and we'revery proud of me. We celebrate
St payments day and we carry ourflag and but still, you know to
be Cornish in Cornwall isgetting rarer and rarer.

So one of the things that I've been noticing
an awful lot over the pastcouple of years, especially but
it will be longer. I just wasn'treally thinking about it at the
time. But most of the groups ofpeople that I'm around I live in
today, so I live in a tiny clayarea. And I love it when I grew
up in I grew up in NorthCornwall new Weybridge and, and

(08:10):
I knew if the clay area issomewhere you didn't want to go
to on during the daytime, letalone on the dark night. But
I've actually I've been hereI've been here since 2000, which
is really quite shocking. And Ilove it. It's great. Unless I'm
around a village which is stillreally quite vocal on it and
very local. But in most otherenvironments that are made in

(08:33):
Cornwall and I'm either the onlyor one of maybe two people who
were raised in Cornwall my myfamily moved here in the 50s So
yeah, but But I grew up here andmy dad grew up here but I'm in

(08:54):
enormous minority just havingbeen raised here rather than
having rather than choosing tomove here later on as an adult I
find that

quite do you find that tourism is still
avoids the centre as well, liketourists will go through say
Austin area play country as fastas they can on the way down.
Yeah, I find that quite strictbecause Cornwall is so beautiful
wherever you are. And fordifferent reasons. And yeah, I
find that incredible, becausethey don't get to see the wheel

(09:25):
people in the wheel culture whenthey walk up and say I was a
Padstow there then with eachother, and half of them of all
you know, and I love the worldof publishing, I work in the
world of publishing because ofmy festival, but still I know
they all go to the same placesand they will bump into each
other. You know, it's just just,it's crazy because why would you

(09:46):
want to have a holiday somewherewhere you're all English you all
from London. You've all whitepredominantly, you know, it's
it's kind of sad and it's ashame they're not going to other
other areas like St. AustinEvery country everybody,
especially the village Casio, Idon't know if anyone knows kung

(10:07):
fu. But that's kind of you.Yeah. So that's where we are
Martin is. So that's where myfamily 1000 years ago or
something crazy would have comefrom, I suppose. Yeah.

One of the things you've mentioned, I mean,
there's loads of things therethat I was just like nodding my
head vigorously to but one ofthe things you mentioned around
people believing that you'reCornish or not. And I wonder if

(10:37):
you noticed that if you're indifferent spaces. I wondered if,
yeah, if you could pick up onthat at all this kind of,
perhaps fetishization of whatCornish is.

One of the things that I've noticed about
myself is that over the pastcouple of years, and I'm
noticing that I'm not really,I'm not really using my accent
very much right now. But if I'maround people who aren't calling
it I bloody well do. And it'sover, I'm using dialect become,
it's become really political forme. And at one point, when I

(11:20):
first started teaching down inCameroon, so Senior Lecturer in
politics at the University ofExeter, at the campus in
payment, when I first startedteaching there, I always kind of
tried to hide, hide it. And Ifelt a little bit embarrassed,
actually about about beingCournot. And I felt very
strongly that I was imaginedActually, it wasn't just that I

(11:44):
felt it, I actually got this,this was reinforced as well, the
people thought that I didn'tknow I wasn't quite good enough.
Or I do I use Cornwall a lot asa case study in my research,
which isn't just about corn wasactually about rural areas more
generally. But, but people thensort of pigeon holed me as being

(12:06):
like, oh, okay, she just doeswork on formulae, therefore,
it's not so good. So I wasfinding that I'd like a
definitely try to talk much moreproper, then. Then I might in
other environments. Now. I'mlike, that. This is me. And

(12:26):
actually, I'm going to put on myaccent specifically, just for
you all.

I think, yeah, we definitely put our accents on
like I find throughout thesummer, whenever you go
anywhere, there might beEmirates, you always say away as
they pass. Right? And that, youknow, and then Oh, I'm fine.
Thank you, how are you? And youjust start now? You know, God, I
do that. And I really put it onmy partner. So you really, you
know, it's almost like bullying,like on the cliff path, and you

(12:54):
just say away, and then they sayright back, then that's it, you
know, it's almost like yeah, youcan pass Go on, especially up
here in southeast corner.Because we're so close to the
bridge. You know, I'm alwaysreally protective of that
bridge, and who comes across.And, you know, when the end of
January comes, and all thenumber plates, and I'm always
just obsessed with where thenumber plates are coming from.

(13:14):
It's mad, we've just got it inus to be kind of protected. But
I think we are wanting to justprotect where we are and where
we're from. I know talking aboutaccidents. A lot of work that I
do as part of the working classwages festival is talk to people
from all across the country, asyou were saying about different
world and communities. And it'sso interesting in publishing how

(13:38):
people try, just even aswriters, they try to downplay
their accent in it because theythink they're more likely to get
a book deal or more like to getan agent or an editor when they
go to festivals. And they get totalk to people from the
industry. And I just thinkthat's just so sad because of
whether it's a subconsciousthing that people are actually
prejudiced against people withaccents or not. You know, maybe

(14:01):
they have something maybe peopledo take posture accents. Maybe
they hear a posh accent andthey're like yeah, okay, you
know, you are one of us. Do youknow what I mean?

Generally like romanticising or stereotyping in
people's minds of all sorts youknow all sorts of different
people with all different kindsof accents and and you can see
these patterns through like TV.Yeah, like an accent from the
northeast of England might beconsidered good for certain

(14:39):
things or and yeah, I wondersometimes about though the, the
keys that gate give access tolike through the doors of I
don't know prosperity orwhatever. More nonverbal than

(15:00):
Just an accent. But there's awhole host of ways of being that
give access. And I wonder ifeither we could talk a little
bit about to, like intangibleculture. But Are there aspects
of intent the Cornish culturethat is intangible but is a way

(15:25):
that that is common in Cornwallor is important to our cultural
identity? I mean, Natasha, youtouched upon saying hello to
people on the street and in theon the past?

I don't know. I think, for me Cornishness, being
part of this place is so deeplyembedded in I don't know, just
like my understandings, I alwaysdon't even really understand
what some of that intangiblestuff is. It's only really, I

(16:01):
guess, a couple of a couple ofmonths ago, I was in an
environment where some peoplefrom other parts of Europe and
and I didn't think that I wasbeing particularly cool it at
all, I really didn't. And thenso there's this guy comes up to
me, he goes, You are so Cordish,I was taught English by a
coolest person. And I was like,how am I? Right now? I've got no

(16:26):
idea that I was.

Yeah, I think people that people think that
we're quite suspicious, and youknow, where we have strangers
and outsiders and stuff? Andlike, yeah, we are, you know,
we're kind of an islandcommunity in many ways, you
know, with the two seas and theriver. We are quite insular at
times, but, but that's, that'sfun. I like being like that. I
like being a bit secretive.Because then, you know, people

(16:53):
think they know you, they thinkthat they will get on and stuff.
But you know, we always keep alittle bit back. But then when
we do give that extra then thatperson knows that they are they
are trusted. And you know, it'sI think it's more special when
we kind of let people in asCornish folk, whereas other
people might be more kind offrivolous and be all pally pally

(17:14):
and, you know, we're not likethat. And I like that. I think
that we are different. We are aCeltic nation. My partner's
Irish, we are very similar inmany ways. It's the same when we
go over to Britney, you know, wewe just have that, which is a
little bit different from thearts a lot different from the
English, but I think yeah, Ithink it's, I think we're very

(17:35):
proud. And we will continue tobe proud. But I just hope that
our pride isn't just a quicktick box of all the things, you
know, the things that we'requickly proud of, I think, you
know, it goes blood deep, itgoes bone deep. And I think
we're our pride has to come fromthings that we're doing now and
things that we'll be doing inthe future as well as just

(17:56):
looking back at the past. Andthen just saying, Well, wasn't
weren't the pirates, great orwhatever, you know, wasn't that
fun, how they used to get peopleonto the rocks with the light
and fires or wherever, you know,we need to move forward, as
opposed to just being thispicture that people have of us
as Cornish. Because then we arelosing our culture because we're

(18:18):
just like stuck in one place.And we're just looking back we
need to be looking forwards.I've been told off many times
about writing about sad thingsbad things, you know, basically
that are that have gone on abouthomelessness about poverty in my

(18:39):
books, because people wantCornwall to be that picture of
of a cottage with roses and thesea in the background. You know,
it's the story of she worked inLondon and she came down to
Cornwall and she was sad becauseshe'd lost her boyfriend and
then look a fisherman and youknow, it's just, I mean, how
many times can you write thatshit basically, and that is in

(18:59):
all the front of all thebookshelves all the time down
here every summer and I'vepeople have said, How dare you
write about Corbin in the waythat you do? Like, well, this is
Cornwell This is the real corewall. Not that

and on the converse of that. Those stories
of middle class escape, whetherit's for a holiday or for or to
relocate, actually, that'shugely alienating for those of
us that are actually familiar,because it doesn't get any kind
of relationships or anything butthat I imagine is normal and

(19:34):
kind of like a bit of anintangible thing as well. But
I've noticed when I have foundmedia from people from Cornwall,
it's tangible. It's it'sintangibly, different. It's not
just subject matter. It's notjust it's a way it's kind of put
together and I can't really putmy finger on quite what it is.
But it is a way of kind of likespeaking that says, Yeah, this

(19:57):
is recognisable, and that otherstuff you know Can we can be can
taught middle class, and middleclass migrant and or visitor and
all of that kind of stuff.Because that's a language that
we had that we've learnedgrowing up around here, because
you're encountering it all thetime. But seeing other people
that are talking to us, isreally well, overnight.

Yeah, absolutely. And you said also
Joanie about research with otherrural communities around the
country? So do you find thatthat is very similar in places
like Cumbria or Scotland orwherever I'm,

I haven't actually done that much within
the UK, but myself, but I did abit of work a couple of years
ago, I shouldn't go back thereagain, next year, I'm in
Appalachia, in the US. And thatwas absolutely fascinating,
because there was so many, somany things that are so many
points of similarity about theway that people, people in urban

(20:57):
areas, stereotype rural people,and the way that rural people
that end up responding to that,and say, No, I've got a very
good academic friend that worksin it's from Northland, from a
man in Sweden. And she's foundvery similar kinds of things
that people in urban areas don'treally understand what the rule

(21:20):
is for, unless it's for theirown immunity value. You know,
unless it's poor, nice holidaysand leisure time, they really
don't understand the point ofthe rural, and which then that
they don't make it means thatthey don't understand the point
of rural lives. And so don'tvalue rural life. And also
imagine, you know, part of thiskind of like rural story that
you see across Europe and acrossacross America. It was us is

(21:44):
that is that people in ruralareas, but I'm characterised as
being a little bit backward alittle bit to storing. Yes,
torturing deeply. Yeah,everything all we're all people
that are just characterised asbeing suspicious of strangers,
and not very inviting, and notvery welcoming. And yet, it was
crazy. Because I Appalachia wasgenuinely the friendliest place

(22:08):
I've ever been to, it wasactually quite overwhelming. But
I was talking to people who weresaying that about how when they
went to, when they went tocollege, outside of outside of
the Appalachians, or a lotfurther north, or wherever, and
they had, you know, they didn'tthink they had that hillbilly
accent. And yet, apparently,they totally did. And that they

(22:29):
were called things like bumpkinand stuff like that they were,
they were really treated quitebadly, because of the way
people, people imagined them.And I think that's a regularity
that, that you see across rural,rural areas throughout
throughout the western world.And it makes me really cross.
And it'll say on the slide, thatone of the things that also

(22:51):
makes me really cost is whenpeople move to Cornwall, and and
encounter encounter us and theway that you also had this kind
of like culture shock thing,because they're not used to
being in the rural area, thatmuch, it wasn't that much of an
extended period of time, andthen take that culture shock.

(23:11):
Rather than it being Oh, mygoodness, I didn't do my
research quite so well, itbecomes Oh, my God, you people
are just not, you know, youcouldn't organise your way out
of a paper bag, or whatever. AndI've heard this ever since I was
growing up. It winds me up likecrazy,

where they all moved down here during COVID.
And then they were complainingbecause there wasn't a customer
on the corner of their villageor Hamlet. You know, that was
that is absolutely the lack ofresearch. They just think the
country and also they don'tthink of us out of season
either. And I write a lot aboutthat as well. My books, the out

(23:49):
of season kind of when it's notsunny, and it's not beautiful,
and you can't live outside, youcan't sleep on the beach, if
you're homeless. My new bookunder current covers a lot of
that what we did with thatundercurrent is called a Cornish
memoir of poverty, nature andresilience, which is my
childhood and growing up toabout the age of about 20. And

(24:10):
every chapter we deal with, Italk about myself and my
upbringing and growing up in thevillage on the south coast of
Cornwall, and then we will touchon something that say like
transport or something likethat. So every every chapter
deals with something that onlyaffects us well, and especially
when we're poor. Soinfrastructure travel, food, you

(24:33):
know, the jobs because I mean,of course the jobs in Cornwall
are very low paid and they'reseasonal and it's that sort of
thing tied housing. So yeah,I've had a lot of I wouldn't say
a lot of fun with it, but withresearching you know, it's the
detail that we went into wasjust was was incredible because

(24:53):
we have such problems here. Andpeople don't realise because
people think Cornwall is whichand and Sunni and happy and
lovely. And of course, it's not.Because we've, you know, we
don't just exist in summer. Andalso we, we have such such
problems with our infrastructureand with poverty and lack of

(25:14):
resources, you know, so yeah,it's a talk about like being gay
as well, when young people inrural areas don't have access to
somebody to talk to, you know,that's it, you just don't. And
if you want to get a train to gointo the nearest sound city that
costs so then you might have toask for that money. And then
where are you going on thetrain? Why are you using that

(25:35):
money? Because you want to go toa youth group to talk about, you
know, so yeah, so it's that kindof thing as well, you know,
access to sport, it's, it'speople just do not realise how
being deeply low Well, whateffect it has on people and
young people. So yeah, I'mreally interested in exploring
that as well.

Erm just to pick up on that rural thing now. So
rural is defined is like havingsort of smaller populations. So
in, like, I've always consideredCornwall is a rural place, like
across, despite the townsbecause it feels like there's a

(26:16):
rural like, you might live in avillage or you might live in a
town. You might live in ahamlet. But the connectivity is
one of the things that feelslike it defines it still as
being rural. And someone else Iwas speaking with as part of
this project, saying, well,actually Cornwall has these
urban centres of like, Redruthbeing more urban or St Austell,

(26:43):
Truro, ,Falmouth so like atowns, I wondered what your, as
a sort of a sub clause on theconversation, you two could say
what you might think about that?

Well, for me growing up, I was my my school
was 10 miles away. So going toschool, which was Torpoint was a
20 mile round trip every day.And when I wanted to do sports
and things like that, because wedidn't have a car, we didn't
have transport. I had to get theschool bus home. I couldn't do

(27:16):
sport. I couldn't do anythingafter school. We were deeply
worried well, because of that.We weren't you know, we had no
public they had one bus, whichwas on the weekend, on a
Saturday. You couldn't go andmeet your friends. That's,
that's what that is, you know.So for me growing up, yeah. 20
mile round trip, just to go toschool. And if you missed that

(27:37):
bus, that was it. Because that,no, I couldn't. So I had to get
that bus. I had to get home. Icouldn't stand around chatting
to friends, you had to get thebus to get home. And then in our
village, we didn't have much,you know, we had a shop and a
pub. So that was it.

We had a Young Farmers Club in my village as
well. And I understand that thatwas perfect. That was really
good fun for some people. But itwasn't something that I was able
to do it to to be a part of. So.Yeah, very much very much. That
resonates with me as well. Wewere we were about four miles

(28:19):
from from town. But yeah, theweek that the weekend bus was a
supermarket one. And I rememberbeing really surprised when when
I came to live in St. Denis. Andbecause here there was a half
hour bus service. There's anawful lot Nicki, and it was
like, Oh, my God,

(28:41):
it actually is connected,

that is uncommon.

really uncommon, really uncommon. But but it has
such an enormous impact on theway that you experience the
world as well, doesn't it andabout whether you know how much
you're actually able to takeadvantage of all of the
different kinds of opportunitiesthat there are available for
you, because you just physicallycan't get there. In in, you do

(29:06):
figure out other ways of doingstuff. But the things they're
kind of like cultural thingsthat are privilege tend to be
the more urban ones, the morethe kinds of things that are
happening in the hands anyway.But yeah, so it just becomes a
bit more challenging.

but also say there was a couple of things
that we touched on there, aroundclass and tourism that I'd
really like to pick up on. Butone of the things around tourism
and around sort of protection.Point of protection, I suppose
of culture is now in one of theother podcasts I have a

(29:49):
conversation with someone arounddifferent kinds of tourism and
they're kind of like tourismwhere It's looked down on and
tourism that is consideredacceptable and like good
tourism. And these are tightlylike class connected so that a

(30:10):
package holiday in might beconsidered as bad tourism that
is not interested in culture andgoes on maths. And then there's
this more privileged, likeexploratory tourism, which is a
very middle class sort ofbehaviour going in discovering

(30:31):
something new. So we thinkingabout that malls sort of felt
like right, that sort of,actually, that middle class sort
of tourism is perhaps quitecolonial, and carries on that
thread of discovery andtherefore ownership. And that
perhaps the sort of package totourism, provide some protection

(30:53):
for the local communitiesbecause it's boundaried. To an
extent. And just thinking aboutwhat you were saying there
Natasha, around sort of creatinga protection against Perhaps
those who are coming and visitin Cornwall to take something
away from a touristic experienceis, is there a benefit there,

(31:18):
then, to the tourism thatprovides a clear boundary
between this is the real cultureand this is the culture for
sale?

I suppose you're talking about
stereotypes, then, aren't you?Because you're talking about
middle class people who, youknow, and I don't, I don't think
that's true. Anyway, I do. A lotof campsites by us. Near near
where I grew up, the blue area,poor power area, which are those

(31:50):
people on the holidays on maths,it doesn't mean that they're not
indulging in culture, and goingon hikes and visiting. I don't
know Eden Project or whatevertheatre. And I think a lot of
those middle class people ininverted commas, don't do any of
those things, perhaps becausethey literally just go on their

(32:11):
boat, or their yacht, or theirfriends, or they go to the
friend's restaurant, and theydon't do anything else. So I
think, for me, tourism has itsplace, obviously. I think we
could do more. To make sureit's, it doesn't kind of, you

(32:34):
know, overwhelm certain towns, Isuppose. Like, I know, there's a
recent article about people whoworked in se or know St. Ives,
how they felt that it was like atheme park. And that they were
going to work in a theme parkbecause they were, you know,
catering to those people'sneeds. And then going back

(32:56):
again, to wherever they lived.Outside of those big fancy
towns, so I think tourism hasalways been here, it always will
be here, we complain about them.But obviously, we do need
tourism. It's not our numberone, I know farming and fishing,
I think is still our number one.Trade as it were. And I don't

(33:20):
have I don't have a problem withtourism. But I do think I do
have problems with second homes.And I do have a problem with
that kind of thing that happenedduring COVID Where people you
know, the long let's I thinkthat's that's where the, the
shit has hit the fan really,tourism will always be here. And
I think it's fine. I just weneed to make sure we manage it.

(33:41):
And especially from an ecoperspective, we need to make
sure that people are not buyingthe plastic crap, but it's those
shops, those local shops thatare selling the look the plastic
crap, that they then leave onthe beach, you know, I mean, the
you know, the pretend Bodyboardsand everything else, we need to
stop selling that stuff. Andwe're going to complain about
the tourists buying it and thenleaving on the beach when they

(34:03):
go home. So it's that sort ofthing, you know, and the coastal
paths and the state of thecoastal paths. I've never known
people to run I bought thecoastal path all the time. I've
never known people to jump inthe coastal path, except since
COVID COVID. You know. Sothat's, that's another kind of
long term tourism that'shappened in Cornwall where these
people are just coming down anddoing what the hell they like

(34:25):
that kind of tourism I don'tlike but you know, there's room
for everyone. We just peopleneed to be more aware of what
what they're doing. You know,when in my book, I have a whole
chapter on the cost of livingduring summer months, and our
local village shop and how thosethose shops would just sell a
boring loaf of bread and thenall of a sudden it will be

(34:46):
packaged up in summer to be kindof some kind of artists on
special Cornish bakery low for10 times 10 times the price and
locals then have to buy thatbread. Like in our village my
mum we couldn't we didn't have acache Single parent, we had to
buy the bread that was up duringthe summer months, you know, and
that still goes on so we haveand that we have to do better in

(35:10):
our communities as well. To notgo oh, here come the Taurus
idiots his loaf of bread for afiver you know and bug of
everybody else and pusheverybody out of their housing
during the summer months. AndAirbnb, you know, all that has
as needs to be blamed. But weneed to blame ourselves. For a
lot of the mess that has gone onin the last two, three years in

(35:32):
Cornwall. Yeah,

it's a really complicated one. And I could go
into a slight rant. So if I do,if you want me to finish, please
just do some kind of gesture.I've got a couple of stories
that I'd like to share actually.The first one is a is when I was
doing my last major researchproject. And I was asking people

(35:56):
about their experiences ofliving in Cornwall and, and
there are a wide variety ofpeople. And there's this one
woman who had actually grown upin a rural area in the US, but
is now living in Cornwall. And,and she was really thought
provoking actually, because shewas saying about how it stores

(36:18):
and really she finds it livingin a rural area that people not
only want to come and visitactually wants to come and
visit, but also but but alsothat they go away and and buy
souvenirs from this place. Andit just it got me thinking about
how special is for other peopleknow about us, not just people

(36:41):
in Britain, but also people inother parts of the world know
about it. So potentially, ourvisitors could be amazing brand
ambassadors kind of thing. Youknow, they could have some
amazing stuff to take away. Butit feels that what we're doing
with our tourism offer is we'resaying it precisely this

(37:02):
discover your own Cornwall, whenwe've got our own Cornwall, we
we'd like to we'd like to tellpeople what our own call is into
and share that with them withthem rather than discover your
own thing. And the other storythat I've got is about a couple

(37:22):
of years ago, I was swimming outof a swimming pool Quinn, which
is a beach that I grew up goingto. But I was doing a lot I do a
lot of open water swimming. Andwe went out to out of the bay.
And it was really clear day andwe swam to where there's some

(37:42):
caves. And it was amazing. Andwe swam over a wreck. And we
some a little bit further andthere was still a wreck in the
middle a little bit furtherstill, and there was still a
wreck, it was an enormous wreck.And I came back and got straight
onto your search engine of yourchoice. Just to try to find out

(38:02):
what was going on. Or what thewreck was. It turns out that it
was a ship that sank it was a itsank in the 70s. And it gave the
Padstow lifeboat an absolutelyhorrendous fine because it was
really quite, it was quite adramatic. I have a dramatic
thinking but everybody got off.So it's lovely. Anyways, um, but

(38:26):
my my sort of search it wassearching online for it.
Everything that was coming up tostart out with was, um, was
discovered, discovered pork whenyou can go, you can go sailing,
and kayaking and coastal walkingand eating and posh restaurants.
And you can discover all ofthese amazing things. But what

(38:47):
you couldn't discover was localhistory at all. And I've had
that same experience in a coupleof other parts of Google as
well, where you just look atsomething and go, Oh my god,
what is that? I want to knowmore. But you can't because
because all it takes quite aquite a while it's hard. Because
everywhere that's talking aboutthis particular place is talking

(39:10):
about what an amazing visitorexperience you can have if
you're quite wealthy. And Ithink that we need to find a way
of bit of, of developing ourtourism offer that says this is
us. These are our stories comeand find out our stories come

(39:30):
and learn about us and learnabout our culture. And, you
know, that actually could bereally quite attractive people.
And it'd be really quiteinteresting if we could do that.
But where we're at at the momentand I think you touched on this
quite a bit Natasha as well isthat you know, if you go to
Disneyland, you I've never beento Disneyland, but I'm just

(39:51):
imagining if you go toDisneyland, you know, but it's a
performance. You know thatMickey Mouse will go home at the
end of the day and take off ofthe office off his hat, and
there'll be an ordinary person.And you certainly don't go, You
know what, I'm going to move toParis because I'm going to live
in Disneyland. But what ourvisitors don't actually

(40:15):
understand is that out of theCornwall that they experience is
a performance. And we're really,really good at that performance
to the extent that peopleactually think it's authentic.
And they actually think that thecall that they get on their
week, two weeks wait howeverlong is the real Cornwall. But
and, you know, and then you'vegot all of that extra thing

(40:36):
about, you know, second homes.And not understanding what it's
like here in the winter, orabout how poorly the labour
market you know, how, what lowincomes are and stuff like that.
But yeah, so I think that weneed to fundamentally rework
reimagine what it is that we do.And also, one of the things that

(40:59):
also happens just because peoplesee formal only through the lens
of tourism, it also means thatthe other industries we got,
people just don't, don't noticedon't even know that existed
exist. One of the little statsthat I came across the other day
that I absolutely love, is thatone of our largest employers,
what about absolutely largestemployers is not in the visitor

(41:22):
industry is actually a clothingcompany. And believe it or not,
we've got some fabulous clothingcompanies that do amazing
clothes that they sell, not justin other parts of the UK, but
globally as well. How fabulousis that?

Yeah, absolutely. I know SeaSalt is.
Yeah, they're funding actuallymy event at North Cornwall
festival, Book Festival end ofthis month. And I love that
because for me as an artisticdirector and for other
festivals, you know, you wantpeople on board, you want brands
on board. And I think that wasreally good that they've they've

(41:58):
obviously they're funding acouple of events, North
Colborne, which is which isabsolutely brilliant. But as you
were saying about what peoplelook at Cornwall, they just want
it how they think it's going tobe so they completely ignore
everything else. I don't knowhow many people visit who don't
know what actually an injuredhouse is. Like they think oh,
that's pretty because Poldarkthat's what that is and they

(42:20):
don't even think about ourmining history. And our history
is so incredible. It's sobrilliant. I bought something on
where I live on the railheadPeninsula I don't know if you
know it, Kingston core sound,but it's a beautiful piece of
our coastline up here. And I wascommissioned to write it for the
BBC and I had to do lots ofresearch in order to as you were

(42:43):
saying about search to just geta real sense of the history as
well as the you know, thegeology and the geography which
I know about what the historyside and with Devonport Dockyard
as well and all the ships and,you know, if you walk that piece
of land that so much that youfind that to do with naval
history and that sort of thing.People wouldn't have a clue. You

(43:03):
know, you see the plinths wherethe cannons were during the
First World War. That's what'sthat's what I find is
interesting, too. Ah, you know,the art corner history, there's
so much, but people don't reallywant the history, they don't
want to go to little villagesand enjoy a local celebration.
And that's it, they go intoPadstow and it's on the obvious
and, you know, the things theyknow, you know, the floor Dance

(43:28):
Floor today, that's they don'twant to experiment in other
places and see what othervillages because it's gonna be
more more authentic. If you goto other towns villages around
Cornwall that aren't the onesthat you know, are gonna put on
an event. Because those eventshave kind of, I think, have been

(43:50):
taken over by the English alittle bit anyway, they're like
no, this is how this should be.Where it's not part of their
culture and it's kind of plasticit's they just as well put
Mickey Mouse hats on. You know,and yeah, dance around and sing
silly songs. Well, they do butyeah, it's filtering it's
they're filtering our culture Ithink.

I just think it'd be it'd be so much more
authentic wouldn't it if if theyjust had a big sign that says By
the way, this community is adestination it is not a
community as long as you knowthat
all good

just touching upon that, like I also, so,
think about confidence, and likethe responsibility of like you
were saying Natasha, the peoplein Cornwall who sell these
things, but also have like our,like Cornwall Council and other
organisations based in Cornwallthat manage part of that sort of

(44:50):
brand call mall image. I mean,you know, I don't feel like I've
ever been consulted on brandCornwall and I'm cool. soonish
and I feel like brand Cornwallimpacts on me as a person and my
identity and how other people inthe world understand who I am.
And I then have to justifymyself against brown Cornwall.

(45:15):
So I wonder about that. It seemsas though perhaps marketing
Comillas a destination seemslike an easy route perhaps to

(45:35):
follow, and the confidence topromote Cornwall for I don't
know, auth I've always hadtrouble with the word authentic.
But like with something perhapsthat might be considered more
authentic or perhaps like, thespine, all the stuff that's
going on in the spine ofCornwall, there doesn't seem to

(45:57):
be much confidence in promotingthat. So, like, whoever manages
tourism and brand Cornwalldoesn't promote Redruth.

It's just I think it's just laziness. You
know, it's always hard when youhave to reinvent, not reinvent,
but you have to do a bit ofresearch and come up with new
stuff. Because it's there. Andthat's in the whole of Cornwall
is beautiful. And yet, yeah,it's just like, it's laziness. I
went to for a couple of daysago, and there's new signs up

(46:28):
sold for you that saysdefinitely tomorrow in a
country. And for me, being SouthEast ma Cornish maid, I was just
like, you know, I love DaphneDuMaurier. But there's that's
not definitely America. That'sjust lazy. Again, people who go
to foyer and that area, no,Daphne DuMaurier lived in
Bodinic. And she wrote aboutmany places that you don't have

(46:51):
to put these bloody signs upthat taxpayers are paying for,
you know, the Council havebothered to say that. And you
get this busloads of people fromall over Europe, they come for
that they don't need to see asign. So that's wasted money, as
you say they could have usedthat. And worked on something in
say austere or redwoods, or, youknow, kellington, which is near

(47:13):
me. Nobody knows what Canningtonis, you know, and there's
history there this historyeverywhere.

I think it's this thing about it. I'd be
really interested to know howmuch the people who devise the
kind of like official brand, howmuch they actually understand
what it what ordinary people'slives are like, I kind of feel
that there's a disjuncturebetween people who are kind of

(47:43):
making a lot of these strategicdecisions and the lives that
most most most of us ordinarypeople are actually live in. And
I feel that there needs to beand this also touches on some
Oh, what a hell of athunderstorm out here. So I
don't know. This also touches onsomething that you were saying
earlier, Natasha about how weneed to think about what we're

(48:07):
moving forward to in a fewminutes. It's not just about the
past, it's also about what weare and where we're going. And
I'm, I feel that there needs tobe much more of a public
conversation within Cornwallthere says outside of all that
lifestyle stuff, because that'sfantasy, what some people's
reality, but mostly, it'sfantasy. And outside of all

(48:29):
that, what are we? And where canfrom where we are, where can we
go to? And what are the steps tobe able to do that? And I don't
you know, and then we mightactually get something that's a
little bit more real or a way ofyeah, all of us being able to
move forward together ratherthan it being like, oh my god,
here's another bunch of peoplewho's talking about us. That

(48:52):
doesn't bear any relation towhat I how I experienced.

Yeah, and another TV show, you know, it's
just on properties in Cornwalland come and live the corny
stream and everyone's just youknow, social media just like
what is this? And yet you know,it's been a gone you know, no,
people will be watching none ofus were asked about it or to put

(49:15):
any kind of, you know, our twopennies worth in Yeah, it's it's
hard. It's an up it's an uphillbattle, isn't it? You know,
really is.

So another thread that has come up through
my conversations is around thekind of ancestors we will be and
being ancestors for the feature.So thinking about how Cornish
identity continues. I often feelthat tourism, and some of this

(49:54):
lifestyle, commodification ofCornish culture, does dislocate
us, and perhaps futuregenerations from, from Cornish
culture, because it's so it's soomnipresent. It's just, it's

(50:16):
always around us and how, how dowe unpick on a daily basis?
Particularly when it's on TV somuch say, oh, that's, that's the
sort of lifestyle tourism bitand then this is actually
Cornish culture? What do youguys think about that, so what

(50:37):
we then pass on? What do we setup for the future?

I think, you know, we want a sense of pride,
but we don't want people to belike young people. I think both
those things need to be kind ofmixed, you know, we need to mix
things up a bit. Becauseotherwise people, young people,
just think of culture andhistory and as just old, old
people stuff, old stuff. So wewant them to kind of get

(51:05):
involved in rewriting it alittle bit, and what their
contributions are. We want tocelebrate that. Yeah, I think,
for me, I hope my books go on.And, you know, I hope people
will read my books and kind ofthink about how far because some

(51:27):
of them a little bit, you know,especially the young adult ones
that kind of I call it justtopia, because it's like
dystopia, but it's just happenedor just about to happen, it's
kind of in that kind of, youknow, if you don't watch it as
this is kind of thing gonnahappen. Because, yeah, we'll be
the first if there was any, asas, as the weather changes, and
that sort of thing, like, youknow, there was one free Janie,

(51:49):
as you were talking aboutearlier, you know, if we did
have more mass flooding andstuff, we would be the last to,
for anyone to really give a shitabout because we are often cut
off by weather and that sort ofthing. So I think we need to
celebrate what young people aredoing now. And have them say

(52:09):
their Cordish when they're doingwhat they're doing, whether
they're in music or the arts, isto have some sense of pride,
that they're not just a youngperson or they're not just you
know, in this moment in time,this moment in history, but
their identity is a part ofCornwall and history and culture
and everything else. Becauseit's so easy for people to just

(52:32):
think ah, this culture businessand you know, it's all just kind
of old stuff. It's your parentsor your grandparents or
whatever. Because a lot ofCornish might not be grouped
might not have grown up withthat as well. That pride because
of that the way that that orthat English were English and
you know a lot of Cornish justcome up with that wrongly, and

(52:55):
then their kids so it's tried topull those kids back and think
well, okay, your parents mightidentify as English now but look
at your family history look backin time, your Cornish be pride,
be proud, own it, you know, andmove forward. And it's that
Celtic identity as well. And weare minority, you know, and we

(53:15):
are not be afraid to say that.

I think it's really interesting, whether it's
it feels like the Cornishlanguage movement is on a cusp
of something right now, whereit's been used in a number of
kind of, like, really quite coolways. And I'm thinking in
particular about Gwenno, orGwenno's album, but I can't

(53:39):
remember what the award is thatshe's nominated for. But I know
it's I

think Mercury was at the mercury award. Yeah.
Yeah, totally.

And, and those things that are like really
exciting, it's like, actuallyhang on a minute, it's, it's
this,
it's been to four
pack, you know, old Cornishculture actually become really
quite cool. And this isn't justa common thing, actually, this
is a real, certainly wearablething in Britain, it would be

(54:10):
really in it. And I would loveto see some kind of, I don't
know, some kind of media aboutwhat it's like to be a young
person in a rural area, youknow, some some kind of
storytelling or music orperformance that really engages
with what rural rural youthexperiences in Britain in

(54:36):
general and in cool will inparticular, because I think that
that's, that's massively missedout. And so, you know, to a lot
of the lifestyle stuff that'sactually it's not young is it's
not for, like something thatyour teens aspire to. It's
something that you decide thatyou're going to be a part of
when you're like in your 30s andplayed a little bit and and now

(54:58):
want to settle down and livelived the dream and things. Um,
yeah. So, I don't know. Why isit that when we think about when
we think about youth and youthculture, we just think about
urban stuff that feels like areally important space that we
really need to engage with ifwe're going to create an
authentic lived coolish culturemoving forward.

Yeah. When I was writing Undercurrent, that
that's what I was thinking abouta lot, a lot of the time is
because that book was my growingup. So that was me growing up in
the 80s, you know, and into myteam, so it's from very early
age, and the whole time I waswaiting, I was thinking okay, so
what is it now, you know, and I,I did do a lot of research with

(55:43):
like the Joseph Roundtree andTrussell, www.trusselltrust.org
and kind of organisations likethat, just but I really want to
be able to talk to young people.So when that book comes out next
year, I really wanted to go intoas many rural communities, I
want to go to festivals,obviously, the usual tour, but
also warmer workshops, as muchas possible independent book

(56:05):
shops, and with that, getinvolved with local libraries in
rural locations across thecountry, so that we can get
young people involved in orderto hear their stories, you know,
in order to talk to them andthen for them, to get them
thinking about their lives andmaybe come with come up with
some kind of, you know, anoutcome that we can all look at

(56:26):
and say, Okay, this is these arepeople we can work with, going
forward in the next couple ofyears, you know, because that is
that's really important. Wedon't ask those questions
enough. And it's always you'vegot to get because they have to
go to cities often, like ifyou're into music, you know, you
want to be a sound recordist orwhatever, you have to move away.

(56:46):
So it's, it's, it's trying tofind that balance, isn't it to
get them to kind of, to work onwhat they want to work on and do
as much as they can creativelywith creative or whatever, but
also, to not just go and comeback. You know, stay here, work
here, then work with youngerpeople, again, keep it keep it

(57:08):
moving forward.

But also to think about the places where you
can actually do those things.And I know, I think one of the
one of the challenges that wehave is because we're really
quite spread out. We are quitelong and thin, and all of that
kind of stuff. So, um, but Iknow that there's a keep on
hearing about how there's somereally interesting, cool and
funky stuff happening. Usuallyfurther down West. It feels like

(57:33):
there needs to be more stuff inthe

Up this end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

And also, around this sort of like, Weybridge,
Camelford. Bude way as well.Yeah. So, west of St Austell
that, I think, East of StAustell.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And also people who
have the facilities, say, like,come in and utilise, you know,
why can't the BBC get youngpeople to go into their studios
and find out more aboutrecording stuff. This is just
obviously an example. But, youknow, even art when we've got
such art history in Cornwall,and yet, you've got to go to

(58:12):
them. And for me, as always, asa writer, and as a festival
director is you've got to go tocommunities, you've got to go to
the people, because oftenpeople, especially women,
communities, you know, theydon't feel like they can go into
the town and go into a place andtake over a space. And it's the
same with like theatre orwhatever, you know, we need

(58:33):
people to keep doing thatoutreach, in order to, in order
to get people to celebrate andutilise their skills, you know,
as creatives or wherever itmight be. I think people can do
more, I think businesses can domore, definitely.

Maybe there's, maybe there's something in this
as well, it seems to me aroundthose of us who are maybe a bit
older in the prime of our lives,who are being creatives and
having a certain moment ofprivilege and position that

(59:17):
allows us to model certain formsof behaviour so we can model
that art from Cornwall doesn'tneed to be a certain way. It
doesn't need to be about rosearound a cottage door. It
doesn't need to be aboutlandscape, protect, you know,
perhaps a painting for instance,things can be broad broader than

(59:42):
that. And we also have thestrength of voice to challenge
perhaps, and to kind of askthose questions or demand those
provisions of like you saybusinesses and other
institutions, museums, colleges.

Joanie Willett (01:00:04):
I think one of the projects that I've been
involved with, quite recentlyactually is. And again, this is
a regularity that you hearacross rural areas, but it's

Natasha Carthew (01:00:16):
Yeah, totally. Totally agree. Totally agree.
particularly particularlypresent in Cornwall is the way
for, because we don't understandwhat what kinds of things there
are in our economy. Beyondtourism, or it becomes very
difficult for people to actuallyunderstand, you know, what there

(01:00:37):
is outside of tourism, thatmeans that our young people
coming through schools don'tthink that they can have a
career doing anything reallycool and interesting and cool,
because they just don't knowthat those opportunities are out
there. We're not very good atactually sharing what we're
actually doing yet. And part ofit is because careers education
more generally, across Britaintends to be focused on I don't

(01:01:01):
know, so you want to be you wantto be a sound engineer, be a
sound engineer anywhere, let youknow, not kind of like, okay, so
these are the these are thekinds of skills that are needed
in your local economy. Andhere's how you get those jobs,
and what you want to trade inand what you want to focus on
and that kind of stuff. And sowe get So, because what else, so

(01:01:27):
we're not sharing with youngpeople, what the opportunities
are here, whether it's for workor leisure sometimes as well.
And then making thoseopportunities accessible to
young people, then people arefeeling like, Yeah, welcome was
not for people like me, I'mgonna have to leave it in so so

(01:01:49):
somebody, somebody else chattingto the other day, talks about it
in terms of how throughout theexperience of growing up,
children, learn to leave, orlearn that you have to leave
rather than that there are thesethings that you can stay in and
do things in. And I find itreally fascinating having

(01:02:13):
conversations with havingconversations with people. It's
I think, we started getting alittle bit older with it, and
you're like, well into your 40s.And you started chatting to
people, and it's like, so whatare your kids doing them?
Hackers or was really tiny. Andnow they're now they're like,
it'd be grown up in it. And somepeople go, Oh, yeah, they want

(01:02:34):
to work in the media, in media.They're doing filming. No
opportunities like that inCornwall. So you know, so
they've had to go. And I knowthat hang on a minute. I don't
have a huge pool of creativefriends. I do know a bunch of
people who have moved toCornwall to do filming. It's
like, trying to these aremismatches that need to be that

(01:02:57):
need to be brought together.

Sovay Berriman (01:03:05):
Yeah, yeah. And this is where? Yeah, there's
some there's that so there's alot of space there for, for re
presenting the narrative of whatit is to be from Cornwall, or
living in Como, or setting outupon one's life in Cornwall. And

(01:03:31):
I Well, each of us like in ourown activities. It feels like a
sort of making an effort to sortof chime be part of the time
that shifts phase expectations.There's been some brilliant
projects in places like I basedin red reef with my studio, but

(01:03:52):
people like Liam Jolly, he'sfrom Redruth, sort of setting
stuff up and doing music stuffand art stuff and Alice Mahoney
as well. He's grown up inCornwall and setting up
projects. So I know that thereare these pockets, and maybe,
yeah, we can all do our work inkind of knotting them together.

(01:04:17):
Thank you both so much for allof that conversation. And all
that thinking. I really likedthe way how, as well, whilst we
were speaking, Natasha, you'dstarted off with that connection
around Cornwall being like inyour bones and your blood, which
I 100% sort of connects with.And then throughout our

(01:04:39):
conversation, a big storm hastravelled through Cornwall.

It's not here. Yeah. Is it not? Yeah, it's
getting darker. It's gettingdarker. It's getting darker.
Yeah,

you're next.

You're gonna have to rename this podcast now.
The storm, the storm that'scoming By sending it up into
England so

that's it that sounds like a name for one of
your forthcoming books and

just started a new one today because I can't I
can't now my no undercurrent iswith everyone like the PDF is
going out for quotes and stuff,too. Yeah, I can't I can't bear
waiting to hear what peoplethink so like, I have to start a
new book. So I'll start afiction again. Which I haven't
been pressured for last coupleof years so yeah, thing um, do

(01:05:32):
we get ever kind of like a whatdo you know? It's Yes, fiction
is set on the coast. It's at thesouth coast. What can I say?
It's not dystopia. It's outYeah, it's it's set after the

(01:05:53):
tourists go home. I'll give youthat. So yeah.

Well, I feel like it's really exciting to be
chatting with you on the veryauspicious and energetic day
that you've started a new book.

Monday start a term so it's kind of guilty as
well, because my partner's goneto school. So I'm like, wait,
okay, I'm back back in mywaiting cabin out. The back.
Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you both very much.

It's been brilliant. Good fun.

Joanie Willett (01:06:31):
Thanks so much for agreeing to this Natasha.

No worries.

My pleasure,

and keep in touch both of you. Because we
can come up with some greatideas for sure. Yeah. So any
ideas mad ideas, or you want tojust get together for coffee?
Just let me know. Keep theconversation going.

Exactly, fabulous.
Meur ras, a’gas goslowes, thankyou for listening. Further
episodes of the MESKLA | BrewyonDrudh podcast can be find on my
website Sovay berriman.co.uk.That's sovayberriman.co.uk Where

(01:07:14):
you also find guest'sbiographies and a resource page
of links to further reading onthe topics discussed. If you
feel inspired to join the MESKLAconversation about contemporary
Cornish cultural identity,please get in touch with me

(01:07:36):
Sovay Berriman. via my websiteor social media, you'll find
MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh onFacebook, Instagram, and
Twitter. The MESKLA | BrewyonDrudh podcast and project has
been made possible due to awealth of in-kind help and

(01:07:57):
support for many parties,including the Lowender Peran
festival. Gorsedh Kernow,Cornwall Council's Cornish
language office, Kowethas anyeth Kernewek, Cornwall
neighbourhoods for change andFalmouth University Falmouth

(01:08:18):
campus. The project has beensupported using public funding
by the National Lottery throughArts Council England, and
further funding has beengratefully received from
Historic England by RedruthUnlimited. Meur ras dhywgh

(01:08:40):
a'gas termyn, agas gweles. Thankyou for your time. See you later.

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MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh #8 - A Conversation About Cornish Life & Lifestyle Cornwall, with Joanie Willett & Natasha Carthew

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MESKLA | Brewyon Drudh #8 - A Conversation About Cornish Life & Lifestyle Cornwall, with Joanie Willett & Natasha Carthew