July 3, 2025 • 37 mins
We went a bit rogue today with a completely different dailyepisode style.
Financial markets, mining and commodities are at a fascinating inflection point, and we wanted to hear what some of the smartest people in markets are thinking. So we called them.
This episode is packed with thoughts and ruminationsfrom Russell “Rusty” Delroy, Dan Porter and Tom Woolrych, who opened up on global macro, hunting for value, coal markets, and a bunch of explorers looking for the next big find.
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TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Improvising a show
(01:42) Phonecall #1 - Rusty
(20:17) Phonecall #2 - Dan Porter
(24:52) Phonecall #3- Hedley Widdup
(25:09) Phonecall #4- Tom Woolrych
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
JD We were supposed to have an interview today.
We were indeed. We were we were supposed to talk
about me and Rez Moz. You've let me down.
But hopefully we can reschedule talk later in the month, Moz.
But until then, we're without content plan today.
So I know you hate to be unprepared when it comes to
content. It irks you, doesn't it?
(00:20):
Like you're you're. With most things, yeah.
Not just content. You're uneasy about about a lack
of preparation and because because we've got nothing
planned for the show, but we've got to put out the shows today.
So I thought we were just we're just going to make a few phone
(00:41):
calls and see what happens. No agenda.
I don't know we're calling them,but just going to call a few a
few friends, the show a few a few a few fund managers that
have been on in the past severaltimes.
I don't know if they're going toanswer B, they don't know.
I'm calling and see don't know if they really want to be
recorded on a podcast when I do call them.
So we're just going to see how this goes because this could
either be excellent content or it could be awful content and.
(01:04):
We're we're really becoming sortof like calling radio type type
program. The other way around is a bit
more desperate when we're calling people.
No, I like it. We're going to, we're going to,
by the sounds of it, call some much more switched on people
than us. And yeah, well, I've got a lot
of questions to ask, right. We're coming into quarterly
season. We're in a super volatile market
for commodities. Things are bouncing up and down
(01:26):
all sorts of directions as as same goes for the stocks.
So, yeah, and and capital raisings, there's been actually
a lot of capital raisings lately, so.
Right, so you got prepared. I'm.
I'm not even going in with questions.
You've got questions. Anyway, we'll see what happens.
Let's give it a go. First up, Rusty, see if he
answers me. Hey mate.
(01:50):
Hey, hey mate. Sorry I'm coming through.
But wire it in. Hey mate, can you hear me now?
Yeah, go. Yeah, yeah, do.
You know what happened there, buddy?
Oh, neither do I. I was, I was trying to connect.
You're going to hate this, but we, we had an interview planned
today and, and that, that, that interview has cancelled.
(02:14):
So we're going rogue and we're trying to make a show out of
spontaneously calling a few insightful fundies like yourself
for a 5 minute little bit of offthe cuff commentary, which does
mean that I, I do have recordingequipment right now.
You're not live. We can always cut things out.
You can, you can say yes, you'reinterested or B, you're not
interested. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(02:35):
Yeah, OK, so he's going to try and sort of stitch something
together on the fly. I'm always happy to help, mate,
always happy to help. I'm just walked into my.
That's the background noise. Yeah, but.
How good's that? What?
Do you want to chat about? I want to know what is most
interesting to you right now mate.
Oi, big picture macro I reckon is the most fascinating dynamic
(03:01):
and maybe the hardest Riddle to read.
Where is Trump at? Where is Elon at?
And it's this amazing tension between a desire for pure
disruption, which is Elon versuspragmatic realism, you know, US
(03:25):
fiscal and thereby, you know, implications for gold and other
commodities, et cetera. So that to me is the most sort
of interesting thing going on out there in the broader
landscape. And and happy to sort of tease
that out a bit if, if you so desire.
(03:47):
I would love, I very much do desire mate.
Rusty, I'm, I'm here as well mate.
I, I would love to, to flesh that one out with you.
Just quickly on the, on the tariff aspect of, of that, we're
in that sort of quiet period. Do you, do you think the tariffs
come back in a in a big way or we've kind of heard the last of
that in in a kind of disruptive fashion?
(04:10):
Yeah, of you and apologies guys,I'm just I'm in the vehicle, so
apologies. If the oh good.
Is not ideal. Our view has always been that,
that the tariffs were really an overstatement of where the US
really could go. And so, yeah, I think, I think
(04:30):
that's been borne out. And I think where we're at now
is probably more likely where things truly land.
That means there will be some version of tariffs.
But how they're applied, they'llbe knowing they're as aggressive
as the US postulated that they might be.
They just can't do it. They're they're too constrained.
(04:51):
And the big the big hell on thatis the tenure.
And, you know, we all saw what happened when they really tried
to squeeze everyone at the same time.
And so, you know, the other sovereign nations can play that
game too. And the squeeze point back to
(05:12):
the US is clearly the tenure andthey require foreign
jurisdictions to fund their thissort of fiscal situation.
So the reality at the moment, like, how are we seeing it?
It's fuck, it's, it's interesting and it's
complicated. But, and, and all of this, you
(05:32):
know, is always just probabilistic estimations of
future events. No one owns a truth or a crystal
ball here. What does it look like really?
Well, Elon's done a lot of hard work on the disruption and that
is all meaningful. But it will take time for Doge
to play out because Trump is more of a realist and knows that
(05:56):
that level of disruption is actually going to put you in a
place of high risk because you and then Lynn Aldrin and other
there's other very good macro brains out there who speak about
this. Well, highlights that, that,
that and you can actually createa sort of doom loop with that.
(06:17):
You can disrupt economic growth so much and tax receipts so
much, actually worsen your fiscal situation even through
sort of austerity and and you know, efficiency at the at the
governance level. So I think that works important,
but it will take time to implement.
And I think where Trump is more pragmatically landing is no, no,
I'm going to spend my way out ofthis in many ways.
(06:40):
I'm going to I'm going to come to the efficiency at governance
over time. I've exposed now the truth of
things for one of a better word.We can now come at that over
time and with AI, and we will profligate still.
We will still spend more than wehave.
(07:01):
We will look to financial repression to reduce the debt,
which is effectively tolerating a higher rate of inflation,
pushing hard for a lower cost ofcapital, which is clearly doing
with how he speaks to and of theFederal Reserve Chair.
(07:24):
And so and but you can never admit this.
And so I think the most likely part is that sort of financial
repression and the safety valve on that, right where that is a
dangerous place is if inflation goes to like 5 or 6%, that's
kind of OK. Goldilocks is probably more like
4 cost of capital two. But if it's five or six, then it
(07:44):
can then run away to like 810. You know, suddenly you might
have some hyperinflation, then you got a real problem.
I and again, this is guesswork, so please, I hope the listeners
don't throw too many stones at me.
You can then use, you know, get your get your efficiency
(08:07):
dividend through ongoing reform of governance and waste and
fraud, etcetera, implementation of AI to governance and more
broadly implementation of AI across both the public and
private sector. And that implementation then
brings you efficiencies and so you get productivity growth as
(08:32):
the natural brake Tapper againstany runaway inflation.
Does that make sense? I'd love to see that.
I'd love to. I'd love to see the, Yeah, the
the the government spend reducedfrom productivity gains in the
government sector. My God.
Yes, but it has to happen. It can't happen all at once,
right? And there's some great pieces
(08:53):
out there on this, like if you do it all at once, which is
Elon's natural place, right? That dude just does not fuck
around. He's like problem solution.
Good. He, he is the ultimate
disruptor, which has an enormousamount of value to all of us
across, you know, Western society and then beyond.
(09:15):
But there is a pragmatic realityto that.
The pace of change and the levelof disruption.
When you're talking about such fundamental things as
governance, there are natural realities to how quickly you can
adopt that. And my sense is perhaps Trump is
a lot smarter than he looks. And I, you know, I've wrestled
(09:36):
with this over the last few weeks even like being kind of
disappointed at moments where I'm like, oh, fuck, he
represented so much. Now he's not delivering.
You know, he's not supposed to be expansionary, but he's going
after Iran. The big beautiful bill is
anything but beautiful. It's fucking big.
But it's, you know, it's just more of the same.
(09:56):
But then on reflection, I sort of look at that and I'm like, is
he kind of the man for the moment, which is an awkwardness.
There's an inherent awkwardness in that because there's so much
to dislike about a lot of it. But is that more the pragmatic
needle threading that needs to happen?
And if that environment is the environment we are most likely
(10:18):
to get and it and it, you know, again, right, this is all just
probabilistic estimations of future events.
If that is the most likely path we walk, then that inflationary
environment should by and large be very healthy for capital
flows into commodities. Now, that's a great thing,
particularly for gold. Where it gets more complicated
(10:41):
again though, in commodities is,you know, in the here and now.
What does the real world demand picture look like?
And it's a bit soggy. You know, tariffs are still a
thing. They are coming, They will
dampen some level of consumption.
They're not going to be as catastrophic as previously
(11:02):
prognos, that's for sure. But they will be somewhat
disruptive. And you know, the reality for
things like steel and steel derivatives is that China has
had a property market implosion.It's occurred over three or four
years and all of that steel thatno longer gets consumed in that
sector has then been exported in, you know, the overcapacity
(11:25):
of of goods production. Now you know, tariffs will be
disruptive to that. So my sense is that in the very,
very short term, you still want to be a little bit cautious.
And I know like today's market said anything but that today's
market is like Nah, Nah, fiscal flow they're on by commodities
(11:46):
because they're under ride. It may be that because commodity
producers are on such shitty multiples already, maybe the
sector can re rate even in the face of sort of, you know,
average commodity pricing environment for six or nine
months, while China's a little bit soggy and still getting its
policy setting sorted because it's such an under owned space.
(12:10):
I think, you know, day like today sort of shows that that
you can have, you know, big ripping rallies in lithium and
metco. Nothing fundamental to, you
know, last night changed the environment for producing
lithium or met coal. These are just, you know,
financial flows and and short covering in the light.
But they but you know, they matter.
(12:31):
So what am I saying with all of that waffle?
I think the real world demand for the mods in a broad sense is
still tricky. It's still you're going to want
to be commodity selective and and very much stock selective.
But there is lots of value down the curve and we've seen lots of
(12:52):
takeouts recently. You know, we've had new world
and Xanadu both bid for now books recently.
I think Jupiter gets to be there.
There are these obscure ones that you know are getting
swallowed. And so there's lots of value
down the curve still. So you still can hunt, but hunt
intelligently. It's not a, you know, shotgun
type of broach float all boats type of environment, but the
(13:15):
broader macro setting I think isgood.
I think a lower USD will be goodultimately for emerging markets
and lowering their cost of capital.
And that will eventually flow into what is most important,
which is that real world demand for commodities.
And at the same time, you know, with that sort of maybe 12
months view, it should give China time to get their policy
(13:37):
sitting better to actually, you know, soak up commodity demand.
So we are like mid long term remain very constructive gab cow
do great work on this. There's still a billion odd
people to pull out of poverty inSoutheast Asia.
There's so many great reasons tolike Southeast Asia and the
supply commodities into that dynamic.
(13:59):
In the short, short term though,there is some choppy water still
to navigate. And I guess the one frustration
I've got is like I actually thought the sell off in Feb, I
think it was, was was really healthy and for us to see lots
of flow of capital into commodes, maybe we needed to see
(14:20):
that sell off across that concentrated US and concentrated
tech space. Maybe we don't maybe there's
enough capital out there to still have that space buoyant
and, and see, you know, what is ultimately probably the most
underrated asset class globally being materials and energy.
Catch a bid. I, I, I don't know.
(14:40):
My, my sense is I'd rather see some of that capital blow off in
US and tech and then make its way across.
So, so I think ultimately, again, short term, but could
that run in US tech and, and stuff that's kind of a little
bit unhelpful because that that that provides sort of bigger
(15:03):
picture market risk, You know, you could easily have the Dow
pull back again. Just just one quick one to add
into that, Rusty. When, when you're thinking in
regards of being fully invested or with a bit of cash on the
side or or hedges in place, how,how do you take that everything
you said there and yeah, and paste in the portfolio.
Great, great question. And are we walking the walk is,
(15:26):
is really the reality of that question as well.
So we went to the lowest weight cash I think I've had in 13
years. We went to basically 0 weight
cash in in Feb with a view that things that were already cheap
were just suddenly getting faciled and the this
(15:47):
hyperventilation around tariffs.Ultimately we couldn't see how
the how the US could affect anything like what they were
sort of postulating. And I think we got that call
correct. Since then, obviously we've had
things move, move up, we've had a few things taken out.
So we've moved to, I would say we're sitting around 15% cash
(16:10):
waiting at the moment. And yeah, again, just hunting,
hunting opportunities very much with the rifle, not the shotgun.
We expect fully that some of oursmall caps will either be taken
out or rewrited if there's liquidity through those
processes. And yeah, will naturally take a
(16:31):
bit along the journey. Maybe a bias at the moment
slightly towards harvesting a few things and adding a bit more
cash. But you know, yeah, we're pretty
comfortable around that sort of waiting.
Maybe it's 15 to 25% would be a healthy place to be.
You know, if everything runs away, you're still going to
(16:51):
participate in that. And if we do get a bit of AUS
correction, then then then amazing.
You know, you're gonna get a chance to go shopping again.
So yeah, well, that's that. Is that us having our cake and
eating it too? Maybe, I don't know.
That's great mate. I I get that I've interrupted
today, so I'll let you go after this last one from me.
(17:14):
Yeah, no worries. Where can you still find value?
Like where are you looking for value right now?
If it's. Yeah, yeah, you gotta go sift
through a lot of shit. As you guys know, we we love our
data and we love using AI. So that's a big part of our
investment process, an increasingly large part of our
investment process. You still got to go then do the
(17:36):
human work on the back of the filtration through the data.
And and it's kind of sporadic where we're finding it like
obscure places like I would, I would argue, think outside the
square. Look at something like a
Jupiter, you know, that is just such a screaming, the obvious
thing to get taken out. And if you're wrong, you're
going to get paid and ask me while you wait.
(17:58):
So yeah, I couldn't sort of point to just some like obvious
sector, but yeah, that's sort ofthat's, you know, yeah, hunting.
You got to go hunt. You got to go look under rocks.
Others aren't. And yeah, that's probably just a
name that sort of represents that.
If I if I give you one example. We could, really.
(18:20):
Like that phrase? Look under rock's.
Others aren't. Yeah, awesome.
Thanks. No problem, boys.
Thanks for the call. Appreciate it.
Way over to you for a proper catch up.
Let's let's do that. I'm away next week with the
family but let's do it on the onthe way back.
Awesome mate. Awesome.
OK, have a good day mate. Too mate.
Cheers. Yeah, love you.
Bye. What a legend.
(18:41):
That's funny, so good. Sorry money minus for the hiccup
in in audio at the start there. I thought I was connected by
Bluetooth, but I wasn't and thenI had to just get Ausb cord
while Rusty was still talking toto hook him up properly.
An absolute legend. Every time he talks about, you
know, getting a bit futuristic. You know what I think of mate?
I think of the futurism embracedby Derek Heard at Sandy Ground.
(19:06):
Support I. Was thinking of the same thing
mate. Mate, he he is.
In fact, I think he actually made and designed this app for
Sandy down ground support himself.
I'll, I'll just let him talk about it.
You've tried your hand at app development.
Yes. Tell us a bit about that
journey. Yeah, that was pretty exciting
actually. And it's really taken off in the
past few months, actually the app development.
(19:27):
So my vision was always to have it as a customer engagement
tool. So not just simple data sheets,
you know, on a catalog, you know, tools that customers can
use, reference materials. And so the app these days, you
know, has all the data sheets, the technical data sheets,
safety data sheets of the product.
But it's got all these things. If you want to do a resin
(19:48):
encapsulation calculation, what size cartridges should use in in
the hole from installation, it'sgot that capability.
If you're designing a mesh sheetto assert a certain opening,
you've got that capability. Pull test capabilities,
conference papers, news events, you know, featured products.
So it's, it's quite an interactive tool.
But yeah, it's been a bit of a passion for mine for probably,
you know, five years. Downloading it right now JD.
(20:11):
App Store or Google Play, it's all there.
Get on board. Go, Derek.
Go Sandy. OK, I'm going to try.
I'm going to try Dan Porter. Now let's go not.
Too bad I'm literally just sat down boarding a flight.
Oh really? Where are you?
Where are you flying to? I'm with JD, by the way, if
(20:32):
you're wondering whose other voice is around.
Hey, Dan, how are you? Going cool good mate, how are
you? Yeah, going well.
Where are you headed mate? I'm just taking off from Sydney,
heading back to Brisbane. It's probably so.
Probably not a good time to chatthen.
You know, there's there, there have been better times.
No, that's right. Are you guys maybe free tomorrow
(20:55):
morning, something like that? Yeah, mate, I yeah, let's chat
then. That works.
I was, I was just calling because we don't have a show
today. So we're just like calling up a
bunch of random phone managers to get like a two second, two
second, well, one minute view that maybe they have that they'd
be willing to just share off thecuff.
So if you're on the plane and you've, you've just got
something on your mind that you want to you want to hash out and
(21:18):
by all means, feel free to air it out right now.
What's just anything or? Yeah.
What's on your mind markets related right now?
What's what's most engrossing toyou?
Where do these coal markets bottom out?
I reckon, yeah, you're seeing a lot of blood in the streets now.
(21:38):
Like we said, Boeing in massive strife.
The bigger guys I know haven't really started to lay people off
yet, but they're starting to. You've seen a reasonable amount
of product coming out of the market as well, like Calm wars
offline and what else has been afew other minds up.
I guess old bones mines are offline, but all the Anglo stuff
(22:03):
offline as well. So there's been capacity coming
into the market. So we must be we must be getting
close. But is it just going to drag on
the bottom here? And if it drags on the bottom,
who's in? Who's got the most balance sheet
risk? You know what's Coronado going
to do there in strife? Looks.
Bad looks bad. Yeah, yeah.
(22:25):
So usually, usually these thingsdon't last too long.
But if you had another four or five months of this, which I
think we probably will, then a lot of these bigger guys could
be start to get into big bit of trouble too, like your
Whitehavens, Sam Moores and those types of guys.
What what do you think of the the valuations looking across at
(22:46):
at the moment? Good question.
Some like some of them are ridiculously like.
Some of them are factoring in worst case scenarios right?
And I can say why. But then some of them, like the
Whitehavens, seem to be still a bit punchy, I would say, for
where coal prices are at the minute.
(23:10):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go.
All right, mate, that's a wickedthought too.
Cool. That's that's great.
I can. I can hear the the flight
attendant in the background. So I yeah, yeah, yeah.
I should really let you turn your phone up before she tells
you to turn your. Phone up.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. No cheers boys.
Thanks mate. You don't mind if I use that
audio? That's OK.
Cool. Yeah, yeah.
Go for it. Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. Cheers, mate.
Thanks. Thanks, Dan.
Bye. Bye.
(23:31):
Thanks Dan. I love his.
I love his QLD patriotism. Like the first thing on his mind
is coal. He just, he lives, breathes.
Feels the basin. Yeah, love his insight.
So it's it's a really interesting point he makes.
Yeah, super, super beaten up. And I couldn't help but think,
you know, when Dan starts talking about these, these sorts
of players and the sort of commodity, I think of energy, I
think of power and the the next logical step is cross boundary
(23:54):
energy. Cross boundary energy are you?
On the same page with me here. I'm I'm 100% on the same page
with you. In fact I feel energized talking
about that mate, just like a mine site would feel energized
with reliable power from like hybrid battery energy storage
systems. Be it be it solar, be it wind,
be it hybrid with with base loadpower all together mate.
(24:15):
That is, that is a solution thatcross boundary energy implement
all across the. Globe mate, they, they really do
it all. I, I felt that same sort of
level of energy level of power after we caught up with the main
man himself, Tim Taylor just last week.
And you know, it goes beyond what you just said.
It's not just reliable power, it's not just hybrid solutions.
It's them looking after the bills for you, right.
(24:35):
They can take the CapEx off, make it an OpEx type thing that
can really get creative and findthe solution that you need to to
work for your mind site to work for your project when you're
getting that mine up and running.
So look no further cross boundary energy for all your
energy and power solutions. Get in touch with Tim Taylor.
OK, Next up, mate, I'm going to try Headley with up.
(25:07):
No bites from Headley. All right, Who's next on the
hit? List keep scrolling.
I'm going to try Tom Morwick. 7:00 AM and Chairman.
Yeah, it says online. Morning, Trav.
(25:27):
Hi mate. I'm with JD, by the way, just in
case you're surprised. Hey mate, how are you?
Just, we're just, we're just busy reading your book, of
course, at all hours. Rocks, rocks, fossils,
formations through time. In case you, in case you didn't
know that one. No, the, the, we actually don't
have a show today, right? So we, we thought we would just
spontaneously call, like go through our contacts and call
(25:49):
just just smart investors like yourself and, and ask for 5
minutes of insight. And we're going to patch it all
together and see if that saves us.
The yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe we'll learn a thing or two in
the process, you know? Yeah.
Sure. So really what I'm asking for
is, do you have any insight? What's on your mind?
On what? Well, I don't know.
Whatever's on your mind, what have you been thinking about?
(26:10):
What's on my mind the this morning I'm going to model the
Cocosome drill hits. You probably saw them so.
Well, yeah, they're fine. That's what's on my mind. 12g
per 50 meters. How good?
Exactly. So yeah, that's going to, that's
going to chew up my day or my morning probably.
(26:32):
And then insights. So many people remember your
episode on Money of mine, the first one, and they just think I
owe Tom a beer for We are. That's what they think.
Yeah, there's a couple of blokesthat follow me on Twitter.
It's like I've already sold. Shout out to those lads, they
know they are and yeah, no, it'sa great story.
(26:56):
I spoke to Joseph yesterday as well.
So it's super exciting that they're working through the the
PEA or scoping or yeah, whateveryou call depending on what Boise
you look at. So yeah, now that's, that's
going to be a killer resource upgrade.
I'm thinking 3,000,000 oz and then we'll see, you know, the
(27:20):
spreadsheet guys can start chipping away and seeing how
much money it makes. Yeah, it's gonna fantastic.
It's gonna be a lot. What, what, what are the other
explorers around town that you've sort of been been excited
by over the past couple weeks with results out or maybe
results coming up? What have I been looking at?
(27:45):
You caught me right at the startof my day.
I think I checked. That you were online before I
called, by the way, I didn't want to wake you up.
Yeah. No, that's OK, I reckon.
I'm super excited about pamper metals.
Oh. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's. That's I spoke to to Joe their,
(28:06):
their MD as well yesterday. So they're wrapping up the
financing that was $0.16 and it's traded up to 19 cents I
think. So I think what people saw is
that, you know, they like Pampered, but they want to make
sure it's financed, right Yeah, that they had cash and the Kitty
and the next the next big unlockfor them is just to prove that
they can drill in Colombia. So, you know, if they can well,
(28:31):
when they get drill rigs turning, you know, Pampers going
to be 1 to really watch because,you know, I've seen the I've
seen the core photos. It's it's a confirmed porphy
system, right. So now you just got to work out
how big it is and you can get all that for, I want to say
3020, five, $30 million at current market cap, yes.
(28:53):
That's an interesting one that starts out, mate.
It's exciting, yeah. And anything I know you've just
got like a good eye for GO Alpha.
Like anything that's a bit unloved at the moment, you think
there's, there's, there's, there's value in that you've
done done the work on. Yeah, one one that's hyper
(29:17):
illiquid. Let me look here, 25,000 shares
traded yesterday at $0.29. It's called FIN X in in Finland.
It's another, it's another beloved part of the world for
me. Yeah, not too far to get to up
to the central Lapland greenstone belt.
(29:39):
If you if some smart people around the time Rupert was being
discovered, you know, they said,OK, here's a here's a Greenstein
belt. It's nothing geologically
different between, you know, parts of Canada or parts of
Australia and and that and why, why haven't there been more oz
down and boom, they found 5 million ounces of Rupert.
(30:00):
So I've always sort of bought into that idea that, you know,
there's got there's going to be a lot more ounces to be found in
the in Lapland. So Fin X is the ticker that is,
yeah, ambitious Finnish people put together some really good
(30:25):
trenching results last year justlisted and they're going to go
drill it. So what I'm what I'm what I'm
looking at is for that, for these jaw droppingly good trench
results. If if that can convert to a
drill, a drill hit. So yeah, again, we'll know
pretty soon, I think August and September and yeah, but that's
(30:50):
that's sort of super liquid. We haven't put that one into the
fund. We just did it or just done it
on PA. Yeah, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if that's a confirmed hit,
yeah, you know, we'll be the first people to invest in the
next financing. Yeah, yeah.
Wow. Well, you probably should have
mentioned it because maybe it'llbe more expensive then.
(31:13):
Yeah, well, I, I don't know, funds are less price sensitive.
I think the market caps yeah, 15,000,000 or something.
So what? What normally?
Happens on discovery day. If you saw Onyx gold, I don't
know if you guys saw that you saw that.
When in Canada? On Now, the Canadian one.
So it it gapped up 30% on discovery day.
(31:35):
Yeah, yeah. But but it didn't really matter.
So it gapped up to $0.32 and nowit's run to $2.00, right.
So the, the, the, the and the financing was at 70.
So going going back to what we spoke about.
Was. It two years ago now you know
you can if you do the work on after the discovery for that
(31:56):
first financing, that's a super entry.
Yeah. Yeah.
And and Finland just quickly as a, as a jurisdiction, there's,
there's obviously plenty of big names in and around there, but
the, the road to getting that permitted and everything
probably a bit misunderstood down here.
How do you say that? Yeah, it's super.
(32:16):
It's super difficult to say. There's multiple challenges.
You've got the indigenous population there.
There they herd reindeer. Yeah.
The, the, the, what are they called?
The Sami. So they have these vast reindeer
(32:38):
herding properties. So the further the basically the
northern end of of Lapland is back is pretty much out of out
of out of bounds. And then so if you're lacking,
you find something on the southern, in the southern end
around where Rupert are, then you've got to go through, you
know, really long, difficult, but you know, robust but fair
(33:03):
permitting process. So that's Rupert Ria stuck in
that sort of permitting hell, but they'll get bought out.
It's a high, you know, extremelyhigh quality discovery.
Shout out Crewy, who's running that now?
Call Graham Crew, former former guest.
OK, Legend. And the other issue is, is it's
(33:28):
a it's a European wide sort of nature reserve.
It's not National Park, but theycall them Natura 2000.
So these, these, these big patches of Natura 2000, you can
work in them, but the, the regulations are a lot tighter.
So you need to do a lot more work, spend a lot more money.
(33:49):
Yeah. And the, the other issue in
Finland for juniors, it's just the holding costs, the rents, it
can be several $100,000 a year. So if you're, if you're 10
million market cap and you want to spend, you know, you raise 2
(34:11):
million, you want to spend a million on drilling and then
they whack it with a $200,000 land bill, it's, you know,
you're going to burn through thetreasury pretty quick.
How do you feel about being in in some smaller names when
there's a bit of macro uncertainty?
OK. Yeah.
So the, the, the, the Geo Alpha,commodity beta strategies, the
(34:37):
barbell strategies was kind of designed for, for that, Yeah,
for that sort of. Yeah, it's a.
Portfolio, right? Portfolio answer to that as
opposed to? Yeah, exactly.
So what? You know what we can do and
actually we have an start trimming, trimming the big gold
positions so you know that they're hyper liquid and get
(34:59):
1,000,000 bucks in and out really quickly.
But things like we are, you know, no, no chance in hell on
selling that now, right. So yeah, we're we might not fly
as if gold, if gold loses 200 bucks, we won't fly as hard as
it would. But it still hasn't, you know,
(35:20):
we haven't achieved our investment outcomes that we want
that. So yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Awesome, awesome.
Tom, any parting thoughts for usor for the audience?
No. Happy hunting.
Let the geology lead. Awesome mate.
(35:43):
Thanks for taking our call at what is a pretty early hour over
there mate, always great to. Chat man.
First you're my first call. First, stop.
Yeah, by his book, By Tom's book, it's on the wall.
Rocks, Fossils. Exactly.
Yeah. Cheers mate.
Thanks for all that. That's been really fun back and
forth on that. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Thanks guys, it's been hilarious.
(36:04):
If Antonio escalates, I just know I will win.
Yeah, fair warning. I'll make sure.
I'll make sure he gets it. All right, mate.
Have an awesome day mate, see ya.
Cheers. A legend.
I found that as fruitful as everchatting with the likes of these
(36:24):
super super switched on guys completely unprepared.
How do you know? How do you feel, you know, not
knowing what you were? Mate, I'm not the one on the in
the spotlight there. We're getting the insights from
from the people that think aboutthis stuff all the time.
What? Do you think money miners did
you like that? Yeah, tell us what you think of
the the different sort of format, the different style, and
if you're a fan, yay or nay? Should we let the money miners
(36:44):
call in randomly? Would you like?
Would you? Was that too?
Is that too, you know, Rogue foryou, JD?
We've we've always got the powerof the edit mate.
It's in our hands mate. A massive thank you to our
partners for making this show possible.
Our thanks go out to mineral Mining services, Rounded
standard ground support and Cross boundary Energy Uduru.
Uduru. Now remember, I'm an idiot.
(37:06):
JD is an idiot. If you thought any of this was
anything other than entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read out a disclaimer.
JD We were supposed to have an interview today.
We were indeed. We were we were supposed to talk
about me and Rez Moz. You've let me down.
But hopefully we can reschedule talk later in the month, Moz.
But until then, we're without content plan today.
So I know you hate to be unprepared when it comes to
content. It irks you, doesn't it?
(00:20):
Like you're you're. With most things, yeah.
Not just content. You're uneasy about about a lack
of preparation and because because we've got nothing
planned for the show, but we've got to put out the shows today.
So I thought we were just we're just going to make a few phone
(00:41):
calls and see what happens. No agenda.
I don't know we're calling them,but just going to call a few a
few friends, the show a few a few a few fund managers that
have been on in the past severaltimes.
I don't know if they're going toanswer B, they don't know.
I'm calling and see don't know if they really want to be
recorded on a podcast when I do call them.
So we're just going to see how this goes because this could
either be excellent content or it could be awful content and.
(01:04):
We're we're really becoming sortof like calling radio type type
program. The other way around is a bit
more desperate when we're calling people.
No, I like it. We're going to, we're going to,
by the sounds of it, call some much more switched on people
than us. And yeah, well, I've got a lot
of questions to ask, right. We're coming into quarterly
season. We're in a super volatile market
for commodities. Things are bouncing up and down
(01:26):
all sorts of directions as as same goes for the stocks.
So, yeah, and and capital raisings, there's been actually
a lot of capital raisings lately, so.
Right, so you got prepared. I'm.
I'm not even going in with questions.
You've got questions. Anyway, we'll see what happens.
Let's give it a go. First up, Rusty, see if he
answers me. Hey mate.
(01:50):
Hey, hey mate. Sorry I'm coming through.
But wire it in. Hey mate, can you hear me now?
Yeah, go. Yeah, yeah, do.
You know what happened there, buddy?
Oh, neither do I. I was, I was trying to connect.
You're going to hate this, but we, we had an interview planned
today and, and that, that, that interview has cancelled.
(02:14):
So we're going rogue and we're trying to make a show out of
spontaneously calling a few insightful fundies like yourself
for a 5 minute little bit of offthe cuff commentary, which does
mean that I, I do have recordingequipment right now.
You're not live. We can always cut things out.
You can, you can say yes, you'reinterested or B, you're not
interested. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(02:35):
Yeah, OK, so he's going to try and sort of stitch something
together on the fly. I'm always happy to help, mate,
always happy to help. I'm just walked into my.
That's the background noise. Yeah, but.
How good's that? What?
Do you want to chat about? I want to know what is most
interesting to you right now mate.
Oi, big picture macro I reckon is the most fascinating dynamic
(03:01):
and maybe the hardest Riddle to read.
Where is Trump at? Where is Elon at?
And it's this amazing tension between a desire for pure
disruption, which is Elon versuspragmatic realism, you know, US
(03:25):
fiscal and thereby, you know, implications for gold and other
commodities, et cetera. So that to me is the most sort
of interesting thing going on out there in the broader
landscape. And and happy to sort of tease
that out a bit if, if you so desire.
(03:47):
I would love, I very much do desire mate.
Rusty, I'm, I'm here as well mate.
I, I would love to, to flesh that one out with you.
Just quickly on the, on the tariff aspect of, of that, we're
in that sort of quiet period. Do you, do you think the tariffs
come back in a in a big way or we've kind of heard the last of
that in in a kind of disruptive fashion?
(04:10):
Yeah, of you and apologies guys,I'm just I'm in the vehicle, so
apologies. If the oh good.
Is not ideal. Our view has always been that,
that the tariffs were really an overstatement of where the US
really could go. And so, yeah, I think, I think
(04:30):
that's been borne out. And I think where we're at now
is probably more likely where things truly land.
That means there will be some version of tariffs.
But how they're applied, they'llbe knowing they're as aggressive
as the US postulated that they might be.
They just can't do it. They're they're too constrained.
(04:51):
And the big the big hell on thatis the tenure.
And, you know, we all saw what happened when they really tried
to squeeze everyone at the same time.
And so, you know, the other sovereign nations can play that
game too. And the squeeze point back to
(05:12):
the US is clearly the tenure andthey require foreign
jurisdictions to fund their thissort of fiscal situation.
So the reality at the moment, like, how are we seeing it?
It's fuck, it's, it's interesting and it's
complicated. But, and, and all of this, you
(05:32):
know, is always just probabilistic estimations of
future events. No one owns a truth or a crystal
ball here. What does it look like really?
Well, Elon's done a lot of hard work on the disruption and that
is all meaningful. But it will take time for Doge
to play out because Trump is more of a realist and knows that
(05:56):
that level of disruption is actually going to put you in a
place of high risk because you and then Lynn Aldrin and other
there's other very good macro brains out there who speak about
this. Well, highlights that, that,
that and you can actually createa sort of doom loop with that.
(06:17):
You can disrupt economic growth so much and tax receipts so
much, actually worsen your fiscal situation even through
sort of austerity and and you know, efficiency at the at the
governance level. So I think that works important,
but it will take time to implement.
And I think where Trump is more pragmatically landing is no, no,
I'm going to spend my way out ofthis in many ways.
(06:40):
I'm going to I'm going to come to the efficiency at governance
over time. I've exposed now the truth of
things for one of a better word.We can now come at that over
time and with AI, and we will profligate still.
We will still spend more than wehave.
(07:01):
We will look to financial repression to reduce the debt,
which is effectively tolerating a higher rate of inflation,
pushing hard for a lower cost ofcapital, which is clearly doing
with how he speaks to and of theFederal Reserve Chair.
(07:24):
And so and but you can never admit this.
And so I think the most likely part is that sort of financial
repression and the safety valve on that, right where that is a
dangerous place is if inflation goes to like 5 or 6%, that's
kind of OK. Goldilocks is probably more like
4 cost of capital two. But if it's five or six, then it
(07:44):
can then run away to like 810. You know, suddenly you might
have some hyperinflation, then you got a real problem.
I and again, this is guesswork, so please, I hope the listeners
don't throw too many stones at me.
You can then use, you know, get your get your efficiency
(08:07):
dividend through ongoing reform of governance and waste and
fraud, etcetera, implementation of AI to governance and more
broadly implementation of AI across both the public and
private sector. And that implementation then
brings you efficiencies and so you get productivity growth as
(08:32):
the natural brake Tapper againstany runaway inflation.
Does that make sense? I'd love to see that.
I'd love to. I'd love to see the, Yeah, the
the the government spend reducedfrom productivity gains in the
government sector. My God.
Yes, but it has to happen. It can't happen all at once,
right? And there's some great pieces
(08:53):
out there on this, like if you do it all at once, which is
Elon's natural place, right? That dude just does not fuck
around. He's like problem solution.
Good. He, he is the ultimate
disruptor, which has an enormousamount of value to all of us
across, you know, Western society and then beyond.
(09:15):
But there is a pragmatic realityto that.
The pace of change and the levelof disruption.
When you're talking about such fundamental things as
governance, there are natural realities to how quickly you can
adopt that. And my sense is perhaps Trump is
a lot smarter than he looks. And I, you know, I've wrestled
(09:36):
with this over the last few weeks even like being kind of
disappointed at moments where I'm like, oh, fuck, he
represented so much. Now he's not delivering.
You know, he's not supposed to be expansionary, but he's going
after Iran. The big beautiful bill is
anything but beautiful. It's fucking big.
But it's, you know, it's just more of the same.
(09:56):
But then on reflection, I sort of look at that and I'm like, is
he kind of the man for the moment, which is an awkwardness.
There's an inherent awkwardness in that because there's so much
to dislike about a lot of it. But is that more the pragmatic
needle threading that needs to happen?
And if that environment is the environment we are most likely
(10:18):
to get and it and it, you know, again, right, this is all just
probabilistic estimations of future events.
If that is the most likely path we walk, then that inflationary
environment should by and large be very healthy for capital
flows into commodities. Now, that's a great thing,
particularly for gold. Where it gets more complicated
(10:41):
again though, in commodities is,you know, in the here and now.
What does the real world demand picture look like?
And it's a bit soggy. You know, tariffs are still a
thing. They are coming, They will
dampen some level of consumption.
They're not going to be as catastrophic as previously
(11:02):
prognos, that's for sure. But they will be somewhat
disruptive. And you know, the reality for
things like steel and steel derivatives is that China has
had a property market implosion.It's occurred over three or four
years and all of that steel thatno longer gets consumed in that
sector has then been exported in, you know, the overcapacity
(11:25):
of of goods production. Now you know, tariffs will be
disruptive to that. So my sense is that in the very,
very short term, you still want to be a little bit cautious.
And I know like today's market said anything but that today's
market is like Nah, Nah, fiscal flow they're on by commodities
(11:46):
because they're under ride. It may be that because commodity
producers are on such shitty multiples already, maybe the
sector can re rate even in the face of sort of, you know,
average commodity pricing environment for six or nine
months, while China's a little bit soggy and still getting its
policy setting sorted because it's such an under owned space.
(12:10):
I think, you know, day like today sort of shows that that
you can have, you know, big ripping rallies in lithium and
metco. Nothing fundamental to, you
know, last night changed the environment for producing
lithium or met coal. These are just, you know,
financial flows and and short covering in the light.
But they but you know, they matter.
(12:31):
So what am I saying with all of that waffle?
I think the real world demand for the mods in a broad sense is
still tricky. It's still you're going to want
to be commodity selective and and very much stock selective.
But there is lots of value down the curve and we've seen lots of
(12:52):
takeouts recently. You know, we've had new world
and Xanadu both bid for now books recently.
I think Jupiter gets to be there.
There are these obscure ones that you know are getting
swallowed. And so there's lots of value
down the curve still. So you still can hunt, but hunt
intelligently. It's not a, you know, shotgun
type of broach float all boats type of environment, but the
(13:15):
broader macro setting I think isgood.
I think a lower USD will be goodultimately for emerging markets
and lowering their cost of capital.
And that will eventually flow into what is most important,
which is that real world demand for commodities.
And at the same time, you know, with that sort of maybe 12
months view, it should give China time to get their policy
(13:37):
sitting better to actually, you know, soak up commodity demand.
So we are like mid long term remain very constructive gab cow
do great work on this. There's still a billion odd
people to pull out of poverty inSoutheast Asia.
There's so many great reasons tolike Southeast Asia and the
supply commodities into that dynamic.
(13:59):
In the short, short term though,there is some choppy water still
to navigate. And I guess the one frustration
I've got is like I actually thought the sell off in Feb, I
think it was, was was really healthy and for us to see lots
of flow of capital into commodes, maybe we needed to see
(14:20):
that sell off across that concentrated US and concentrated
tech space. Maybe we don't maybe there's
enough capital out there to still have that space buoyant
and, and see, you know, what is ultimately probably the most
underrated asset class globally being materials and energy.
Catch a bid. I, I, I don't know.
(14:40):
My, my sense is I'd rather see some of that capital blow off in
US and tech and then make its way across.
So, so I think ultimately, again, short term, but could
that run in US tech and, and stuff that's kind of a little
bit unhelpful because that that that provides sort of bigger
(15:03):
picture market risk, You know, you could easily have the Dow
pull back again. Just just one quick one to add
into that, Rusty. When, when you're thinking in
regards of being fully invested or with a bit of cash on the
side or or hedges in place, how,how do you take that everything
you said there and yeah, and paste in the portfolio.
Great, great question. And are we walking the walk is,
(15:26):
is really the reality of that question as well.
So we went to the lowest weight cash I think I've had in 13
years. We went to basically 0 weight
cash in in Feb with a view that things that were already cheap
were just suddenly getting faciled and the this
(15:47):
hyperventilation around tariffs.Ultimately we couldn't see how
the how the US could affect anything like what they were
sort of postulating. And I think we got that call
correct. Since then, obviously we've had
things move, move up, we've had a few things taken out.
So we've moved to, I would say we're sitting around 15% cash
(16:10):
waiting at the moment. And yeah, again, just hunting,
hunting opportunities very much with the rifle, not the shotgun.
We expect fully that some of oursmall caps will either be taken
out or rewrited if there's liquidity through those
processes. And yeah, will naturally take a
(16:31):
bit along the journey. Maybe a bias at the moment
slightly towards harvesting a few things and adding a bit more
cash. But you know, yeah, we're pretty
comfortable around that sort of waiting.
Maybe it's 15 to 25% would be a healthy place to be.
You know, if everything runs away, you're still going to
(16:51):
participate in that. And if we do get a bit of AUS
correction, then then then amazing.
You know, you're gonna get a chance to go shopping again.
So yeah, well, that's that. Is that us having our cake and
eating it too? Maybe, I don't know.
That's great mate. I I get that I've interrupted
today, so I'll let you go after this last one from me.
(17:14):
Yeah, no worries. Where can you still find value?
Like where are you looking for value right now?
If it's. Yeah, yeah, you gotta go sift
through a lot of shit. As you guys know, we we love our
data and we love using AI. So that's a big part of our
investment process, an increasingly large part of our
investment process. You still got to go then do the
(17:36):
human work on the back of the filtration through the data.
And and it's kind of sporadic where we're finding it like
obscure places like I would, I would argue, think outside the
square. Look at something like a
Jupiter, you know, that is just such a screaming, the obvious
thing to get taken out. And if you're wrong, you're
going to get paid and ask me while you wait.
(17:58):
So yeah, I couldn't sort of point to just some like obvious
sector, but yeah, that's sort ofthat's, you know, yeah, hunting.
You got to go hunt. You got to go look under rocks.
Others aren't. And yeah, that's probably just a
name that sort of represents that.
If I if I give you one example. We could, really.
(18:20):
Like that phrase? Look under rock's.
Others aren't. Yeah, awesome.
Thanks. No problem, boys.
Thanks for the call. Appreciate it.
Way over to you for a proper catch up.
Let's let's do that. I'm away next week with the
family but let's do it on the onthe way back.
Awesome mate. Awesome.
OK, have a good day mate. Too mate.
Cheers. Yeah, love you.
Bye. What a legend.
(18:41):
That's funny, so good. Sorry money minus for the hiccup
in in audio at the start there. I thought I was connected by
Bluetooth, but I wasn't and thenI had to just get Ausb cord
while Rusty was still talking toto hook him up properly.
An absolute legend. Every time he talks about, you
know, getting a bit futuristic. You know what I think of mate?
I think of the futurism embracedby Derek Heard at Sandy Ground.
(19:06):
Support I. Was thinking of the same thing
mate. Mate, he he is.
In fact, I think he actually made and designed this app for
Sandy down ground support himself.
I'll, I'll just let him talk about it.
You've tried your hand at app development.
Yes. Tell us a bit about that
journey. Yeah, that was pretty exciting
actually. And it's really taken off in the
past few months, actually the app development.
(19:27):
So my vision was always to have it as a customer engagement
tool. So not just simple data sheets,
you know, on a catalog, you know, tools that customers can
use, reference materials. And so the app these days, you
know, has all the data sheets, the technical data sheets,
safety data sheets of the product.
But it's got all these things. If you want to do a resin
(19:48):
encapsulation calculation, what size cartridges should use in in
the hole from installation, it'sgot that capability.
If you're designing a mesh sheetto assert a certain opening,
you've got that capability. Pull test capabilities,
conference papers, news events, you know, featured products.
So it's, it's quite an interactive tool.
But yeah, it's been a bit of a passion for mine for probably,
you know, five years. Downloading it right now JD.
(20:11):
App Store or Google Play, it's all there.
Get on board. Go, Derek.
Go Sandy. OK, I'm going to try.
I'm going to try Dan Porter. Now let's go not.
Too bad I'm literally just sat down boarding a flight.
Oh really? Where are you?
Where are you flying to? I'm with JD, by the way, if
(20:32):
you're wondering whose other voice is around.
Hey, Dan, how are you? Going cool good mate, how are
you? Yeah, going well.
Where are you headed mate? I'm just taking off from Sydney,
heading back to Brisbane. It's probably so.
Probably not a good time to chatthen.
You know, there's there, there have been better times.
No, that's right. Are you guys maybe free tomorrow
(20:55):
morning, something like that? Yeah, mate, I yeah, let's chat
then. That works.
I was, I was just calling because we don't have a show
today. So we're just like calling up a
bunch of random phone managers to get like a two second, two
second, well, one minute view that maybe they have that they'd
be willing to just share off thecuff.
So if you're on the plane and you've, you've just got
something on your mind that you want to you want to hash out and
(21:18):
by all means, feel free to air it out right now.
What's just anything or? Yeah.
What's on your mind markets related right now?
What's what's most engrossing toyou?
Where do these coal markets bottom out?
I reckon, yeah, you're seeing a lot of blood in the streets now.
(21:38):
Like we said, Boeing in massive strife.
The bigger guys I know haven't really started to lay people off
yet, but they're starting to. You've seen a reasonable amount
of product coming out of the market as well, like Calm wars
offline and what else has been afew other minds up.
I guess old bones mines are offline, but all the Anglo stuff
(22:03):
offline as well. So there's been capacity coming
into the market. So we must be we must be getting
close. But is it just going to drag on
the bottom here? And if it drags on the bottom,
who's in? Who's got the most balance sheet
risk? You know what's Coronado going
to do there in strife? Looks.
Bad looks bad. Yeah, yeah.
(22:25):
So usually, usually these thingsdon't last too long.
But if you had another four or five months of this, which I
think we probably will, then a lot of these bigger guys could
be start to get into big bit of trouble too, like your
Whitehavens, Sam Moores and those types of guys.
What what do you think of the the valuations looking across at
(22:46):
at the moment? Good question.
Some like some of them are ridiculously like.
Some of them are factoring in worst case scenarios right?
And I can say why. But then some of them, like the
Whitehavens, seem to be still a bit punchy, I would say, for
where coal prices are at the minute.
(23:10):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go.
All right, mate, that's a wickedthought too.
Cool. That's that's great.
I can. I can hear the the flight
attendant in the background. So I yeah, yeah, yeah.
I should really let you turn your phone up before she tells
you to turn your. Phone up.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. No cheers boys.
Thanks mate. You don't mind if I use that
audio? That's OK.
Cool. Yeah, yeah.
Go for it. Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. Cheers, mate.
Thanks. Thanks, Dan.
Bye. Bye.
(23:31):
Thanks Dan. I love his.
I love his QLD patriotism. Like the first thing on his mind
is coal. He just, he lives, breathes.
Feels the basin. Yeah, love his insight.
So it's it's a really interesting point he makes.
Yeah, super, super beaten up. And I couldn't help but think,
you know, when Dan starts talking about these, these sorts
of players and the sort of commodity, I think of energy, I
think of power and the the next logical step is cross boundary
(23:54):
energy. Cross boundary energy are you?
On the same page with me here. I'm I'm 100% on the same page
with you. In fact I feel energized talking
about that mate, just like a mine site would feel energized
with reliable power from like hybrid battery energy storage
systems. Be it be it solar, be it wind,
be it hybrid with with base loadpower all together mate.
(24:15):
That is, that is a solution thatcross boundary energy implement
all across the. Globe mate, they, they really do
it all. I, I felt that same sort of
level of energy level of power after we caught up with the main
man himself, Tim Taylor just last week.
And you know, it goes beyond what you just said.
It's not just reliable power, it's not just hybrid solutions.
It's them looking after the bills for you, right.
(24:35):
They can take the CapEx off, make it an OpEx type thing that
can really get creative and findthe solution that you need to to
work for your mind site to work for your project when you're
getting that mine up and running.
So look no further cross boundary energy for all your
energy and power solutions. Get in touch with Tim Taylor.
OK, Next up, mate, I'm going to try Headley with up.
(25:07):
No bites from Headley. All right, Who's next on the
hit? List keep scrolling.
I'm going to try Tom Morwick. 7:00 AM and Chairman.
Yeah, it says online. Morning, Trav.
(25:27):
Hi mate. I'm with JD, by the way, just in
case you're surprised. Hey mate, how are you?
Just, we're just, we're just busy reading your book, of
course, at all hours. Rocks, rocks, fossils,
formations through time. In case you, in case you didn't
know that one. No, the, the, we actually don't
have a show today, right? So we, we thought we would just
spontaneously call, like go through our contacts and call
(25:49):
just just smart investors like yourself and, and ask for 5
minutes of insight. And we're going to patch it all
together and see if that saves us.
The yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe we'll learn a thing or two in
the process, you know? Yeah.
Sure. So really what I'm asking for
is, do you have any insight? What's on your mind?
On what? Well, I don't know.
Whatever's on your mind, what have you been thinking about?
(26:10):
What's on my mind the this morning I'm going to model the
Cocosome drill hits. You probably saw them so.
Well, yeah, they're fine. That's what's on my mind. 12g
per 50 meters. How good?
Exactly. So yeah, that's going to, that's
going to chew up my day or my morning probably.
(26:32):
And then insights. So many people remember your
episode on Money of mine, the first one, and they just think I
owe Tom a beer for We are. That's what they think.
Yeah, there's a couple of blokesthat follow me on Twitter.
It's like I've already sold. Shout out to those lads, they
know they are and yeah, no, it'sa great story.
(26:56):
I spoke to Joseph yesterday as well.
So it's super exciting that they're working through the the
PEA or scoping or yeah, whateveryou call depending on what Boise
you look at. So yeah, now that's, that's
going to be a killer resource upgrade.
I'm thinking 3,000,000 oz and then we'll see, you know, the
(27:20):
spreadsheet guys can start chipping away and seeing how
much money it makes. Yeah, it's gonna fantastic.
It's gonna be a lot. What, what, what are the other
explorers around town that you've sort of been been excited
by over the past couple weeks with results out or maybe
results coming up? What have I been looking at?
(27:45):
You caught me right at the startof my day.
I think I checked. That you were online before I
called, by the way, I didn't want to wake you up.
Yeah. No, that's OK, I reckon.
I'm super excited about pamper metals.
Oh. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's. That's I spoke to to Joe their,
(28:06):
their MD as well yesterday. So they're wrapping up the
financing that was $0.16 and it's traded up to 19 cents I
think. So I think what people saw is
that, you know, they like Pampered, but they want to make
sure it's financed, right Yeah, that they had cash and the Kitty
and the next the next big unlockfor them is just to prove that
they can drill in Colombia. So, you know, if they can well,
(28:31):
when they get drill rigs turning, you know, Pampers going
to be 1 to really watch because,you know, I've seen the I've
seen the core photos. It's it's a confirmed porphy
system, right. So now you just got to work out
how big it is and you can get all that for, I want to say
3020, five, $30 million at current market cap, yes.
(28:53):
That's an interesting one that starts out, mate.
It's exciting, yeah. And anything I know you've just
got like a good eye for GO Alpha.
Like anything that's a bit unloved at the moment, you think
there's, there's, there's, there's value in that you've
done done the work on. Yeah, one one that's hyper
(29:17):
illiquid. Let me look here, 25,000 shares
traded yesterday at $0.29. It's called FIN X in in Finland.
It's another, it's another beloved part of the world for
me. Yeah, not too far to get to up
to the central Lapland greenstone belt.
(29:39):
If you if some smart people around the time Rupert was being
discovered, you know, they said,OK, here's a here's a Greenstein
belt. It's nothing geologically
different between, you know, parts of Canada or parts of
Australia and and that and why, why haven't there been more oz
down and boom, they found 5 million ounces of Rupert.
(30:00):
So I've always sort of bought into that idea that, you know,
there's got there's going to be a lot more ounces to be found in
the in Lapland. So Fin X is the ticker that is,
yeah, ambitious Finnish people put together some really good
(30:25):
trenching results last year justlisted and they're going to go
drill it. So what I'm what I'm what I'm
looking at is for that, for these jaw droppingly good trench
results. If if that can convert to a
drill, a drill hit. So yeah, again, we'll know
pretty soon, I think August and September and yeah, but that's
(30:50):
that's sort of super liquid. We haven't put that one into the
fund. We just did it or just done it
on PA. Yeah, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if that's a confirmed hit,
yeah, you know, we'll be the first people to invest in the
next financing. Yeah, yeah.
Wow. Well, you probably should have
mentioned it because maybe it'llbe more expensive then.
(31:13):
Yeah, well, I, I don't know, funds are less price sensitive.
I think the market caps yeah, 15,000,000 or something.
So what? What normally?
Happens on discovery day. If you saw Onyx gold, I don't
know if you guys saw that you saw that.
When in Canada? On Now, the Canadian one.
So it it gapped up 30% on discovery day.
(31:35):
Yeah, yeah. But but it didn't really matter.
So it gapped up to $0.32 and nowit's run to $2.00, right.
So the, the, the, the and the financing was at 70.
So going going back to what we spoke about.
Was. It two years ago now you know
you can if you do the work on after the discovery for that
(31:56):
first financing, that's a super entry.
Yeah. Yeah.
And and Finland just quickly as a, as a jurisdiction, there's,
there's obviously plenty of big names in and around there, but
the, the road to getting that permitted and everything
probably a bit misunderstood down here.
How do you say that? Yeah, it's super.
(32:16):
It's super difficult to say. There's multiple challenges.
You've got the indigenous population there.
There they herd reindeer. Yeah.
The, the, the, what are they called?
The Sami. So they have these vast reindeer
(32:38):
herding properties. So the further the basically the
northern end of of Lapland is back is pretty much out of out
of out of bounds. And then so if you're lacking,
you find something on the southern, in the southern end
around where Rupert are, then you've got to go through, you
know, really long, difficult, but you know, robust but fair
(33:03):
permitting process. So that's Rupert Ria stuck in
that sort of permitting hell, but they'll get bought out.
It's a high, you know, extremelyhigh quality discovery.
Shout out Crewy, who's running that now?
Call Graham Crew, former former guest.
OK, Legend. And the other issue is, is it's
(33:28):
a it's a European wide sort of nature reserve.
It's not National Park, but theycall them Natura 2000.
So these, these, these big patches of Natura 2000, you can
work in them, but the, the regulations are a lot tighter.
So you need to do a lot more work, spend a lot more money.
(33:49):
Yeah. And the, the other issue in
Finland for juniors, it's just the holding costs, the rents, it
can be several $100,000 a year. So if you're, if you're 10
million market cap and you want to spend, you know, you raise 2
(34:11):
million, you want to spend a million on drilling and then
they whack it with a $200,000 land bill, it's, you know,
you're going to burn through thetreasury pretty quick.
How do you feel about being in in some smaller names when
there's a bit of macro uncertainty?
OK. Yeah.
So the, the, the, the Geo Alpha,commodity beta strategies, the
(34:37):
barbell strategies was kind of designed for, for that, Yeah,
for that sort of. Yeah, it's a.
Portfolio, right? Portfolio answer to that as
opposed to? Yeah, exactly.
So what? You know what we can do and
actually we have an start trimming, trimming the big gold
positions so you know that they're hyper liquid and get
(34:59):
1,000,000 bucks in and out really quickly.
But things like we are, you know, no, no chance in hell on
selling that now, right. So yeah, we're we might not fly
as if gold, if gold loses 200 bucks, we won't fly as hard as
it would. But it still hasn't, you know,
(35:20):
we haven't achieved our investment outcomes that we want
that. So yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Awesome, awesome.
Tom, any parting thoughts for usor for the audience?
No. Happy hunting.
Let the geology lead. Awesome mate.
(35:43):
Thanks for taking our call at what is a pretty early hour over
there mate, always great to. Chat man.
First you're my first call. First, stop.
Yeah, by his book, By Tom's book, it's on the wall.
Rocks, Fossils. Exactly.
Yeah. Cheers mate.
Thanks for all that. That's been really fun back and
forth on that. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Thanks guys, it's been hilarious.
(36:04):
If Antonio escalates, I just know I will win.
Yeah, fair warning. I'll make sure.
I'll make sure he gets it. All right, mate.
Have an awesome day mate, see ya.
Cheers. A legend.
I found that as fruitful as everchatting with the likes of these
(36:24):
super super switched on guys completely unprepared.
How do you know? How do you feel, you know, not
knowing what you were? Mate, I'm not the one on the in
the spotlight there. We're getting the insights from
from the people that think aboutthis stuff all the time.
What? Do you think money miners did
you like that? Yeah, tell us what you think of
the the different sort of format, the different style, and
if you're a fan, yay or nay? Should we let the money miners
(36:44):
call in randomly? Would you like?
Would you? Was that too?
Is that too, you know, Rogue foryou, JD?
We've we've always got the powerof the edit mate.
It's in our hands mate. A massive thank you to our
partners for making this show possible.
Our thanks go out to mineral Mining services, Rounded
standard ground support and Cross boundary Energy Uduru.
Uduru. Now remember, I'm an idiot.
(37:06):
JD is an idiot. If you thought any of this was
anything other than entertainment, you're an idiot
and you need to read out a disclaimer.
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