May 8, 2023 • 54 mins
It is common for people with disabilities to also be a part of a different marginalized community. This episode explores the challenges faced by MOPD Career Center job seeker, Ulysses Williams, as well as the work that Willette Benford, Chicago’s first Director of Re-entry, is doing to break down barriers for returning residents.
Learn more about Director Benford
Link to YouTube: (ASL Interpreted and Captioned version here) https://youtu.be/8UTQfzCq4LE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
CMC (00:01):
I'm Christina McGleam, Deputy
Commissioner at the Mayor's Officefor People with Disabilities.
LH (00:06):
I'm Lauren Hooberman, director of the Career Center
for the Mayor's Officefor People with Disabilities.
CMC (00:12):
We're really excited to bring everybody together to talk about disability
related topics and how it impactsChicago residents with disabilities.
This episode focuseson the intersectionality
of people with disabilitiesand returning residents.
So, Lauren,why do you think why are we doing this?
Why did we want to create a podcast?
LH (00:32):
Well, Christina, we wanted to create a podcast for a few reasons.
I think one is it's just a really popularway for people to access information.
People listen to podcasts all the timewhen they're walking, driving,
you know, traveling.
I also think for that reason, it's easy
for us to be able to sharewith other people's stories about people
(00:55):
with disabilities in orderto show commonality among all of us.
And I think it allows for different voicesto be considered
for awareness and exposureto people and topics that you might not
otherwiselearn about in your regular life.
CMC (01:10):
Yeah, as someone with a visual impairment, I love listening.
That's definitely where I get myinformation or how I get my information.
But we just want to make surethat we point out that this podcast also
will be availablein American Sign Language.
For those of you who would prefer followthat way or need to follow that way.
Our first guest today is Ulysses Williams,
(01:33):
who is a job seeker at MOPDCareer Center.
He's an individual who identifiesas having a visual impairment
and has been working with one of ourcareer placement counselors, Jeanne McGill
since last summer.
Can you tell us a little bit
about your disabilityand what brought you to the career center?
UW (01:55):
Yes, indeed. I suffer a rare eye disease
called retinitis pigmentosa.
It's a degenerative disease.
It progresses. Eventually,
I'll be totally blind.
And how I found youguys was through DRS.
The Department of Rehabilitationfor the Blind and Visually Impaired.
CMC (02:18):
What was that like when you came the career center?
Did you meet virtually firstor over the phone?
UW (02:24):
I think I had an appointment.
The first time I met my career counselor
and the experience here at MOPD[Pronounces acronym as a word] [Laughs]
and Mayor's Officefor People with Disability Career Center.
It's wonderful.
You guys have good energy.
My counselor, she's just full of life,
(02:46):
you know, and helpful in many ways.
And so I'm appreciative of Jeanne.
And yeah, here I am because of you all.
I'm employed.
I'm working, which I'm proud of.
My first job, might I add.
So I'm thankful and grateful.
CMC (03:07):
Can you tell us a little bit about your job?
UW (03:10):
I'm a dishwasher at Whole Foods
and so my job is basically providing
the cooked food in the cooked food section,
prepared foods, dishes, clean dishes.Without the dishes being cleaned
there'll be no foodprepared and ready for the customers.
LH (03:31):
How has the job and going for you, Ulysses?
UW (03:33):
It's been nice.
Whole Foods, as well.
They have good energy,you know, they helpful
and they're willing to accommodatewherever I may need accommodations.
And so, you know, I'm grateful.
LH (03:47):
Was that something that you requested?
Did you request reasonable accommodationsfor your job?
UW (03:52):
In the interview with the store manager,
He... I didn't get a chance to.
Truthfully,he had already exposed the fact
that they're willing to accommodateand whatever I need
as far as accommodations, just, you know,don't be afraid to let them know.
And so, so far, so good.
(04:14):
I'm hands on. So, I'm good with my hands.
And so that's something I know howto do naturally anyway is wash... Bust some suds.
[Laughter]
I don't need, you know,very much accommodations for that.
Now if I take on other
responsibilities in the store,I let them know.
(04:36):
And, you know,I may need other accommodations.
And they, they told me,just let them know.
LH (04:41):
And we've heard such positive things about you in that role.
And by the way,we did not get you that job.
You were a huge part of getting that job.
CMC (04:50):
Absolutely.
UW (04:52):
I like to think so.
LH (04:53):
You should! [Crosstalk]
UW (04:56):
Yeah.
LH (04:57):
Ulysses, where are you living currently? UW
I'm in
a re-entry center.
It's a place that IDOC sends you to
as an award for good behavior,
and it's supposed to be set up
to help you with employmentwhere you can save money
(05:22):
and/or other programs and servicessuch as schooling
and things of that naturethat would allow you
to havea successful reentry back into society.
And that's where I'm at now.
I'm due to parole from that establishment
in July 14th, 2023.
(05:45):
And so you'll have been there for a year, is that correct?
UW (05:49):
13 and a half months, to be exact.
So you came from... where did you come from?
Dixon Correctional Facility.
LH (05:58):
And how long were you there?
UW (06:00):
Nine and a half years.
CMC (06:02):
And while you were there, did you receive any accommodations?
UW (06:06):
Yes, I did, although I had to fight for them.
But schooling, I had to fight for that.
They provided me with the cane.
They provided me with a talking watch.
I had to fight for the protective glasses
because I am also photosensitive. Overall,
I eventually got the accommodationsI needed, and so here I am.
LH (06:31):
How did you learn those advocacy skills?
How did you know that you had to fightand how did you figure out how to do that?
UW (06:38):
Well, while incarcerated,
I did have some good people around me,
positive people,fellow residents in the facility.
I wanted to,you know, educate myself and learn
specifically, more about law.
I reached out to some people,such as Equip for Equality.
(07:01):
They wound up taking the case of mine, [that] I filed.
And we...and that was about the education part,
because they was not prepared for visuallyimpaired persons at the facility.
And so I was seeking to get my GEDand further
schooling afterwardsas well as learn Braille.
(07:26):
And they just was like shooing me off.
And so I had to
file a grievanceand go through the grievance procedures.
And then I reached out Equipfor Equality and they took my case.
And then you got the accommodationsthat you needed.
LH (07:42):
Then you were able to have access to those educational resources and tools. UW Yes.
Although they still didn't have certain
auxiliary aids to assist me in the class.
I'm grateful.
I'm a fastlearner and I had another resident
(08:02):
who they employed as sort of a tutor,
and I kind of like helped him
teach me.
Okay.
So there was an individual who helpedto facilitate some of your learning.
Kind of served as a tutor. UW
CMC (08:19):
But you had to help them learn how to help you. UW
So everything I learnedwas really muscle memory
because we had the computer.
They had the... what they callthe new... It's a new G.E.D.
program...
iPathways is what they call it.
(08:42):
And so I would have to see the computer
in order to operate and get the work done.
But as you all know, I can't see the,you know, the computer.
And so he had to serveas sort of like my scribe.
LH (08:59):
Mm hmm.
UW (09:00):
He wrote whatever notes I told him to write,
and he did the labor on the computer,
so he had to find a skillful wayof teaching me
when it comes to, like,let's say, for instance, mathematics,
mathematical equationsand things of that nature.
He found a skillful way of helping meget the mental picture
(09:25):
as to what he was trying to teach me.
And it worked.
You know, it was it was it was helpful.
Although I still didn't achieve my G.E.D.
due to COVID,
they shut everything down.
And then shortly after I was transferredto the Reentry Center.
Unfortunately.
LH (09:47):
Unfortunately, that you didn't achieve your GED by then.
UW (09:50):
Yeah. But I intend to.
It was just still a barrier, though,because you weren't
able to learn how to use the computerthen, right?
CMC (09:58):
They didn't have the software you needed? UW
And that's what I mean by they didn't have
all of the... auxiliary aids.
Excuse me, in the class that they weresupposed to have to assist me.
But you're taking computer classes now, right? UW
Okay, That's great.
UW (10:17):
I'm totally,
Truth be told, computer illiterate.
So I got to learnhow to operate the keyboard,
and then I can move forwardto, you know, being able
to browse and search on the computer,taking it one step at a time.
LH (10:34):
Were there other barriers that you encountered
while you were in prison, asidefrom the ones that we just discussed?
UW (10:43):
I mean, the auxiliary aid that I had
and the ambulatory aidethat they provided me, which was a person
like if I would go out on passes,he was the person who would assist me.
I completed several programs and services
that they had then at the facility.
(11:06):
And I can't even count how many.
But there was timeswhere he may not have been
available due to a visit or whatever.
He might have had personallygoing on in his case or whatever
that I won't bewithout like help and support.
And then, you know, they kind offeel like it kind of puts you out of place
(11:28):
because coming from the man
I'm used to being, which is independent,
you know, to lose my vision,it's like a humbling situation
to have to depend on a person
to assist me in life and that'skind of like a hard pill to swallow.
(11:49):
So I had to, like, ask for support andhelp in that area, and I got through it.
But to say that is fair, I don't think so.
LH (12:00):
And then once
you're finished there, July 14th, is that what you said? UW
So then the next step is that you'll be living independently.
Will you have any contact with anyone from
the carceral system?
UW (12:18):
I don't intend to.
LH (12:19):
Mm hmm.
UW (12:20):
Hopefully,
they help get me into my own apartment.
I heard some talks about them doing so,and so.
Hopefully, you know, that come to fruition
because outside of them doing that,then I will be homeless.
LH (12:41):
Mm hmm.
UW (12:42):
I will probably have to go to a shelter
and start from ground zero.
CMC (12:47):
Does it happen a lot?
Because that common for peopleto have to go to a shelter?
UW (12:52):
Um, no, because most people, either they have wives or they have women.
They probably alreadyhad homes established
before their incarceration,or, some of them,
they just choose to go home with family.
Um, me and my position,I don't have that luxury.
(13:13):
Truth be told, if I did, I would wantto because I'm my own man
and I need to stand on
my own two feetand get where I need to be as a man.
And I can't see myself as almost
being 40-year-old mangoing to live with my mother.
LH (13:29):
Do you anticipate that that will be a big adjustment for you
moving from the transition centerinto your own place?
UW (13:38):
Yes, I do.
Prayerfully that it happen.
I'm looking forward to it.
It would be unfortunate for meto have to spend my money
that I maketo have to rent me an apartment.
But if so, then I just.
I must do what I must do.
And I've witnessed them
(13:59):
parole a guy out to his own apartmentthrough their program.
and he's not disabled.
So I'm hoping that they'll bea little more accommodating
in that area,you know, and help me get into my own.
LH (14:17):
Ulysses, when you were at Dixon, did you meet a lot of other
inmates who had disabilities?
UW (14:25):
Yes, unfortunately.
Dixon is more of a mental institution,
although they have normal people,but also as well.
That's the most as far as disability,as mentally disturbed residents.
I know a few, um,personally like myself, some
that were totallyblind and visually impaired.
(14:50):
Some were in wheelchairs, you know,
some had no legs,some had limbs missing... arms, you know.
LH (14:57):
Were those some of the same people that taught you how to advocate for yourself?
UW (15:02):
One guy I met him, he was he's a visually impaired guy as well.
And he one of the guys who helped
teach me how to advocate for myself
specifically legally, as far as learningthe law and constitution.
You know, I give thanks to himbecause if it wasn't for him,
(15:23):
I probably wouldn'thave been as successful at gaining
a lot of things that I should havehad coming in the first place,
you know, advocating for myselfand others like me.
LH (15:34):
I wanted to ask a little bit about when you got your release date.
How did you feelwhen you got your release date from Dixon?
UW (15:42):
Honestly, it was unbelievable because I put in for and that's another thing.
Speaking to advocate for myself,I qualified overqualified
for the work releasebecause they had been passed a law
where they allow violent offendersto go to work release
and guys were going to workrelease left and right
(16:03):
and some guys that that were going to workrelease
my discipline that we work at farexceeded theirs.
I've never been to seg.
I've never gotten any trouble.
You know, I've completedjust about every program
and servicethat they had to provide our life.
I was like a model prisonerand so when I put in
(16:25):
for the work release, they denied meand told me that I was properly placed.
And soI reached out to Equip for Equality again.
And so they pushed them to explainwhat did they mean by “properly placed.”
Because I was in the health care facilityat the correctional center,
because being there, does thatexclude me from, you know,
(16:48):
having an equal opportunity going tothe reentry center like all other people?
And so they wasn't willing to
to literally say what they meant by it.
And so I had to threatencivil action again.
And so they denied me in December
of 2022,
(17:12):
four months later, well, actually,six months, because June 11 is
when I got surprised and they told methat, hey, you're being transferred.
I'm like, where? You’re going to the ATC program.
That's our adult transitional center.
That's just another wordfor reentry center work release.
(17:33):
You know, and I was shocked.
I guess they'd rather do the right thingthan for me to take them back to court.
And so.
CMC (17:39):
So you didn't have to, like, file again? UW
That settlement
was them to do the right thingand allow me to go to the reentry center
so we didn't have to.
We came to an agreement then.
Well, they did,because I hadn't heard from my lawyer
I talked to and April, and she told meshe would be getting back with me.
(18:00):
And then I never heard from her.
I just up and got a surprise
saying I was being transferred.[Laughs]
LH (18:09):
Ulysses, what do you imagine
for yourself in the next... one,
three, five years?Thinking about both short term and long
term, what do you imagineor what do you hope for yourself?
UW (18:22):
Well, short term, first and foremost, is to get some stability,
meaning I need to have my own roofover my head long term.
After that,saving money is building my credit,
such as when I'm working on nowand investing into real estate,
(18:42):
which is one of the thingsthat I have a passion for.
And from there, invest in mesome box trucks.
LH (18:50):
We're very happy for you
and proud of you,and we celebrate your success
and we're really happy to have you heretoday.
We think you're doing an amazing joband we're here for you with each step.
CMC (19:03):
Yeah, absolutely. UW
You say that, and it's a pleasurebeing here with you guys.
Any time.
Yeah.
We've learned a lot from you
and really proud of what you've gottento accomplish so far.
More to come. LH: Yeah. UW: Yeah. Well, blessings.
LH (19:25):
Our second guest today is Willette Benford.
Ms. Benford is the Director of Reentryfor the City of Chicago Mayor's office.
Ms.. Benford is a champion forthose formerly and currently incarcerated
to receive fair treatment, and she worksas a fierce advocate to ensure
that progress and transformativechange is being made.
(19:48):
Director Benford,
can you talk to us about your roleat the City of Chicago?
WB (19:53):
I like to say that my role has three prongs
The inner agency, the Mayor's Inner AgencyReentry Council.
I oversee that.
It's a bi monthly meetingwhere we meet together
with all city agenciesand some sister agencies,
and we meet around shaping goalsfor reentry.
That piece.
(20:14):
We also have the policy sideand the programmatic side,
but I'll stay with the interagency sidefor a minute.
We had like 17 agencies
that developed goals around reentry,
and those goals were specifically geared
to how these agenciescould support returning residents.
(20:35):
And that is something that we presentedto the mayor for 2023 to ensure
that reentry was at the top of the listand also that agency.
Some of the agencies, don't get me wrong,
we're doing really great workwhen I came on and, you know,
just really building relationshipswith other city agencies
to get on board with doing reentry workand we began to meet around,
(20:59):
I would say, July,
and we met bi monthlyevery two months after that.
And the engagementand the way that city agencies
and individualsthat work with the city were engaged.
It was phenomenal.
And the goals have been amazing
that they came up with. Alsothe policy part,
(21:20):
You know, we have developed leading policythat is national leading,
for instance,our Fair Chance hiring policy,
which has a historicfive year lookback period.
Anyone convicted of a felony,
anything older than five yearswon't be considered.
There's many prongs to it.
(21:41):
Also, there'san individualized assessment process.
So even if you have been convictedwithin that
timeframe, you can still havean individualized assessment.
And if what you've done has nothing to dowith the job that you are performing,
you could still be consideredfor that job.
And finally, the programmatic side,
which is programing through DFSSand the Spring Forward programing,
(22:06):
we have Community Reentry Support Centers,you know, just really
those necessary resources from the top,the city agencies
all the way to the grassroots programingto make sure that individuals
that are coming homefrom incarceration are set up for success.
LH (22:24):
Mm hmm.
Is your rolethe first of its kind for the city?
WB (22:28):
It is the first Director of Reentry for the City of Chicago.
Yes. LH
She was my mayor.
LH (22:38):
Okay, whatever. [Laughter]
CMC (22:39):
Well... [Laughter] LH
She was my mayor too!
WB (22:42):
You know... [Laughter]
See, you gotta keep it a little light too, Lauren
LH (22:48):
Yeah.
WB (22:49):
No, I had never worked with Mayor Lightfoot
But what I did workwith Mayor Lightfoot on...
And let me back up a bit. Yes, I did.
We had the Returning ResidentsWorking Group.
She convened thatbecause she wanted to know
what were the challenges that returningresidents were facing when they came home.
That issue was very dear to her.
(23:10):
She had a brotherwho served over 17 years inside,
and so the issue was dear to her heart.
And what happened was we convenedthe returning Residents Working Group,
which was made up of communityleaders, policy individuals,
government officials, and, of course,those that were directly impacted.
And what we did waswe looked at the challenges,
(23:33):
came up with recommendations,and then we presented it to the mayor.
And in November of 2021, Mayor Lightfootsigned an executive order
creating the Inter-Agency Reentry Counciland also allocating
13 million dollarsto reentry based off the recommendations
from the Returning ResidentsWorking Group.
I was a part of that group.
CMC (23:54):
What were you doing before?
I was organizing for Live Free Illinois,which is a faith-based organization.
We organize churches, faithcommunities, community leaders,
those directly impacted around gunviolence and mass incarceration.
And I was their leaddecarceration organizer
and so we organized across the state,built out
(24:17):
a chapter in Rockfordorganizing churches in Rockford.
You mentioned that you were directly impacted.
Can you talk to usa little bit about that?
WB (24:26):
Yeah, When I say directly impacted, you know,
normallypeople use the word[s] “formerly incarcerated.”
I use “returning resident”and “directly impacted,”
because I spenta significant amount of time inside.
And I often saythat I was criminalized for surviving.
I was given another chance, a fair chancewhen domestic violence
(24:48):
was made a mitigating factorin sentencing, the law changed.
And so one of the biggest law firms in theworld, Kirkland and Ellis, took my case
for free, pro bono, and fought for meas if I paid the millions of dollars.
And in 2019,February of 2019, February 6th,
I walked out of Cook CountyJail, a free woman.
LH (25:10):
You were at Cook County Jail?
WB (25:12):
I came back to Cook County Jail, after
being remanded from IDOC to get the immediate release.
But yes, I spentfour months in Cook County Jail in 2019.
LH (25:23):
Oh, my gosh... WB
And there were many things that I spokeabout there, you know, as well,
because even in the women's division,there are times
when women are treated in a way
that is not gender sensitive.
You know, and I say that because
(25:45):
I was next to a woman in a cell
that clearly had mental health issuesand she was in a cell
and we talked to peopleabout getting her some help.
And I'm sure eventually she got some help.
But at that point,
she should never had to have come to jailto get mental health treatment.
(26:05):
You know, I'm huge on that. Mental health
treatment, even after incarceration,
you know, a therapist, behavioral healththerapy, is really key to individual's
success.
And I talked aboutbeing directly impacted, but
I spent over two decades inside.
Yeah.
That is something thatwhen I talk about it,
(26:28):
I talk about itbecause individuals that have spent
a significant amount of time insidedoes not make them inadequate
or also does not make them ineligibleto be able to do certain work.
And so, I think that it should be lifted upthat even if you've done
a significant amount of time,
(26:49):
you still should be providedwith the resources necessary
to reenter societyand be a productive member of society.
And what are some of those resources?
Therapy, mental health services.
Also housing, you know, affordable
housing, also economic mobility.
Not just a job. A job with a livable wage.
(27:11):
People don't want to wake up, bill
insecure, rent insecure, food insecure,
especially when you have childrenor even just for yourself.
You know, economic mobility,
you know, and those kind of things,family reunification,
making sure that there are settingsso that individuals, women with children
and also we have men... 50% of the menthat are incarcerated are parents.
(27:36):
And so reunification with their children,
making sure that we provide those spaces
so that individuals that have childrencan be set up for success.
Because when you are supportingan individual,
you're not just supporting them.
When they come home,you're supporting their family, too.
And this is a holistic approach would besomething that would be beneficial
(27:58):
not only to the individualbut to our city,
because these same individualswill pump gas at the same gas station
You pump at. We shop at the same stores,
our kids go to some of the same schoolsas your children.
And all an individual wantsis to be set up for success
and provided with resources.Not a handout, but a hand up.
(28:21):
Mm hmm.
Do you think that in the citythat people are providing these resources
or do you think this is our visionand we're working toward it?
Like, where do you think that we fallin the city of Chicago
with being ableto provide these resources?
WB (28:37):
I think in an answer to your question is two-part;
there are places where we havefailed as a city to do that.
But then there are also opportunitiesthat we've taken
recently to be able to provide thingsfor individuals.
For instance,like I said, the Spring Forward program.
It is a great program.
We're partnering, DFSS is partnering,with IDOC and Cook County Jail.
(29:02):
It is a 12 monthrental subsidy with fair-market rent,
where they are paying an individual's rentfor 12 months.
It's 400 individuals.
A subset of those individualswill be granted housing for 12 months.
There is workforce training for 24 months
with a paid stipend,you know, minimum-wage, paid stipend.
(29:25):
But getting that trainingso that they can move
into a job that payswell enough to be able to pay their rent.
So that will be for 24 weeksplus complete wraparound services
so that they can get behavior health,they can get transportation,
everything that's needed in orderto set them up for success.
It is a pilot.
(29:46):
And so with the pilot,there are 400 individuals
and then there will be 160that will benefit from the rental subsidy.
But as well as this goes, we can see
how can we as a city and other agenciesget on board to help expand that.
LH (30:02):
And economically, if someone just wants to look
at the financial aspectof doing something like that program.
Economically, does it make sense?
Is someone going to turn around and say,well, this program is just too expensive?
You know,“this is a blank-million-dollar program.
So it's not sustainable for us to continuewith all these supports.”
WB (30:22):
Let's say this; it costs over
$50,000, maybe even more,
to keep an individual incarcerated.
That is a salary.
LH (30:35):
For one year. WB
That's a salary.
And so let's just think about
reallocating some of the moneythat we take to keep
an individual incarceratedand put it into programing
resources, housing subsidies
and wraparound services, and then see,
(30:56):
should we keep a person in a cageor should we bring them home
and provide resources so that they canprovide for their families?
There's a saying that saysif I give you a fish sandwich,
you eat for a day, but if I teach youhow to fish, you eat for a lifetime.
And so in teaching an individualhow to provide for themselves
(31:17):
and their families,I think it would be beneficial for us all.
CMC (31:20):
Can you talk to us a little bit about the work you're doing at the city level?
WB (31:24):
Absolutely.
I touched on the fair chance hiring piece
because it gives an individualan opportunity
to provide for their families,but also even with a record,
the city always hired people with records,but individuals didn't know it.
And so now what this doesis give a more transparent process,
(31:45):
but also it has a cutoff time ofwhen or how far back
you can look in a person's pastif it is five years or older
and has nothing to do with the grantfunding or some of the funding
that is going into that,then it's off limits.
And that is huge because five years
(32:06):
lookback period for a city jobwith benefits, insurance and things
like that, that is huge for a personthat is a returning resident
and then a seven year lookbackperiod for mayor office positions.
Yes, that was cutting edge.
It was leading.
It was you know, it was like, let's do it.
And so the ordinance passed on February16th.
(32:28):
The mayor signed itand it went into effect immediately.
Also, there is equitable languageon the city's website
that specifically says we hire returningresidents or individuals with convictions.
And that is right therewhere it's 2500 jobs annually.
(32:49):
On the city's website right there,it says that we hire individuals
with prior convictionsso that too, was huge.
Another thing we'll be doing iswe will have a microsite
that will go live on April 10th.
It is a micrositethat is all things reentry.
You know, it'll have some of the resourcesabout reentry.
(33:10):
It'll talk about jobs and workforcetraining.
Also, lately,we've heard a lot around the registries
and so working to make surethat that process is streamlined
so that individuals can register,get registered and not get violated.
And so making surethat that information is up there.
Also,a know your rights piece will be on there.
(33:31):
And then the city has just built outthe 211 site.
And so there will be a linkto the 211 site,
but there's also a linkfor reentry on the 211 site.
So, it's good work and I'm just hoping
that it'll continuebecause we need it to continue.
LH (33:50):
Director Benford, you're such a strong advocate.
How did you to learn these advocacy skills
and when did you learn to be ableto advocate for yourself and others?
WB (34:03):
I learned inside, Lauren. I had to advocate
for myself and others inside.
There were many thingsthat were done to women
that was very dehumanizing in prison.
If I mentioned some of those things,it would just... probably horrify you.
(34:23):
However, I knew
the strength of a pen,and so I began to write
and I would write and write and write
until the wrongs were made right.
And so, that was something that
has always been in my heart;to see an injustice
(34:46):
and say “that is wrong”
and not just talk about it,but what can I do to change it?
And I'll tell you, an incidentthat happened inside.
I wasn't always a good girl, as they say.So I went to Seg for something...
LH (35:05):
Tell us what “Seg” is.
WB (35:06):
Seg is when they segregate you
from general populationfor an infraction of one of the rules.
And so I was in segregation, and
I had a roommate who had a mental illness.
And every time she encountered
(35:28):
the correctional officers,there would be an altercation.
And shecame in with just a couple of years
and they had tacked on timeand time and time.
And so what I did was
I wrote a letter to the prisonerreview board for her,
(35:50):
and they heard itbecause they kept giving her time, but
they didn't take care of herand give her the meds
and things that she needed.[Voice quivers slightly]
I'm sorry.
I just that kind of... Yeah.
But she eventually got that.
And when she went home, she wrote me
(36:15):
and she thanked me
for writing that letter for her
because they got rid of all the extra time.She went to see them
and they took it offand she was able to go home.
But she had years tacked on
just because she wasn't treated
(36:38):
for her mental illness. Things like that.
You know,I've had to write grievances about jobs
that were only given to white women.
You know,
they didn't give them to black girls
and I wrote a six pagegrievance on racism and discrimination.
(36:58):
I didn't get the jobbecause they gave me a minor ticket,
but they began to hire women of colorat a rapid pace.
And some of them are home todaybecause they were
able to get daysbecause they could get that job.
But things like that,having to advocate on the inside
(37:19):
and then coming out and being deniedhousing.
That catapulted me into the work here.
LH (37:29):
Incredible.
Yeah. WB
That is amazing about that woman and that she got out and that she thanked you.
And are you in touch with her now at all?
WB (37:40):
No, I'm not.
No, but there were many womenthat I mentored and, you know, supported
while they were inside,that I am in contact with
and that wrote me.
And because, you know, I am a believer.
You know, I taught Bible studyfor 13 years while I was inside.
(38:03):
And just, really...my faith has carried me a lot of places.
And it has helped me support others
when they were in difficult situations.
Because even with the amount of timethat I had,
I knew that we still had a reason to live
(38:26):
and that the
law could change any dayand you could go home.
So when a 18-year-old sits on my bedand says,
“I'm thinking about killing myself,”inside. Then you have to think about
how do you support her
(38:46):
in knowing that she has a lot to live forin a cage?
LH (38:51):
Mm hmm.
What kinds of things do you think peoplehave to live for on the inside?
WB (38:55):
Their children. Their families.
Knowing that we live
in a carceral system,that could change overnight.
A lot could change overnight.
And you could go home tomorrow.
Because there are advocateson the outside, in this space,
fighting every day to change policy
(39:20):
and to change lawsso that you could come home to
your family,because we know that there are sentencing
disparitieswhen it comes to certain populations.
CMC (39:33):
When you were inside, did you meet a lot of people with disabilities?
Oh, I remember meeting a young lady
in the nineties?
She was blind.
And it wasn't
where they had the program,with assistance...
(39:54):
assisting peoplewith disabilities at the time.
So you know she would have to get somebodyon the unit,
to walk her to what we call the chowhall, which is where you go to eat.
And you know, any place she needed to go,she had to have someone, a sister,
she had to havesomeone be her eyes for her.
(40:17):
And so I remember when they begin to put
the little Braillethings up by the bathroom and different
areas like the visiting roomand, you know, places like that.
But also when the...I remember when they implemented that,
you could apply for the job to be a personwith disabilities assistant.
(40:39):
And it became a full time assignment.
I remember when they built rampsfor people with wheelchairs
and limited movement that people were able
to get up to their housing unitwithout so much of a struggle.
LH (40:56):
Director Benford,
it seems like you could work in somany areas related to the carceral system,
like you could work aroundgetting more reforms on the inside.
How did you decide that you wanted yourenergy to be around returning residents?
WB (41:14):
As I said, Lauren,
I didn't plan to work in this field.
[Laughter]
It was by...
by chance.Because when I was denied housing,
I actually went through
a transitional house, Grace House,
(41:36):
and they offeredall kinds of services.
But when it came to housing, I was denied
based off a 26-year-old conviction.
26 years.
And so when that happened,we had just passed
(41:59):
the Just Housing Amendment ordinancein Cook County.
I was part of a coalition that helped passthat to make it illegal to deny
someone housingbased off their background alone.
And so I began to advocate for myself.
I told them, I said,“you know, it's illegal for you to deny me
housing based off my background.”
(42:21):
And so for a week and a half,
we went through this, through email.
And people that were part of the coalitionwere preparing for the fight.
And so, a week and a half later, “Miss Benford,we apologize.
We were wrong.”
Actually, their policy has changed
(42:44):
because that let me know thatif they did it to me, how many women
before mehad they denied based simply off
of a 20-year-old conviction?
And that catapulted me into the work.
Let's say this
(43:06):
If an individual
could be supported
with the finance that you spendto keep them incarcerated for,
let's say, ten years
and you pay to keep them incarcerated,you don't provide any resources.
And when they come back home
(43:28):
and they have nothing
and they have no resourcesand they have no education,
you say that they are a threat to society.
That threat was that
when society had the opportunity
(43:50):
to support this individual in reentry,it failed
because you can no more
throw someone in a cage
and treat them inhumanely.
Year after year after year after year.
(44:11):
And then when they come home, doabsolutely nothing for them
and then expect themto return to society as a
“productive member”
of society.
It's inhumane.
It's inhumane for our elected officials.
(44:34):
Anyone in government
that says that an investment in people
is not a great investment.
That is wrong. Because,
of course,the carceral system is the punishment.
But when an individual comes home
(44:54):
and there are lifetime barriersto reentry,
then what?
What are we doing?
Are we relegating people to a second-class state? Which was intentional
I know it was.
I'm answering my own question,but at some point
we got to say, look,we got to support people.
(45:18):
They are taxpaying citizens.
They have families.
They've served their time.
And how do we set them up for success
so that they can be productivein our community?
LH (45:31):
Thinking about individuals
who are currently incarceratedor were formerly incarcerated.
I was just doing some researchbefore our session with you
and was readingthat about 66% of incarcerated people
self-reported a disability. With black,Hispanic and multiracial disabled men,
(45:52):
especially beingoverrepresented in prisons.
And is this surprising to youat all, that percentage?
WB (45:59):
Not at all.
Not at all.
And let me say this:
Even with disabilities,there's a wide range of disabilities.
Being dyslexic is a disability.
And so it doesn'tmean that you're not smart.
It means you learn different.
(46:21):
And so to be penalized for that is like...
...Okay, so now we're going to make you payfor the way that you were born.
And you cannot have this job or thisbecause you're dyslexic.
That makes no sense.
LH (46:39):
Yeah.
And of that statistic, of the 66%from this study that were self-reported,
they broke it down into 40% who reported
having a psychiatric typeof diagnosis or disability.
Bipolar disorder,schizophrenia, depressive disorder, PTSD.
And then 56% were non-psychiatric.
(47:01):
These are their words, the highestbeing a cognitive disability, ADHD.
And then another category was anyonewho reported previously
being in, quote unquote,“special ed classes in school.”
WB (47:16):
Absolutely.
And here's the thing.
When we talk about disabilitiesor we talk about trauma,
unaddressed trauma produces
mental illnessor it exacerbates it, because
when trauma on top of trauma
on top of trauma that is unaddressed,there is going to be a break
(47:41):
sooner or later. A mental break. Because,
how do I process all of these thingsthat have happened to me
without the support that I need?
I'm not getting it.
You know, and I thank Mayor Lightfoot
for the 77 communities that have TICC’s in them,
(48:03):
because that is a TraumaInformed Center of Care.
See, you know, we use acronymsat the city all the time,
And then we have to think aboutwhat they mean when people put you on the spot. [Laughter]
CMC (48:17):
Sorry about that! [Laughter]
WB (48:18):
But yeah, it's a trauma informed center of care.
CDPH has done a great job
with making sure that all 77 communitiesin the city of Chicago,
will have a trauma informed center of carewhere regardless of your insurance
or your income,you can access mental health services.
CMC (48:40):
And some of those are in the libraries too, right?
WB (48:43):
Yes, they are currently starting a pilot in the libraries
because people sometimeswith mental health issues
gravitate towardsthe quiet place, which is the library.
CMC (48:56):
And I know a lot of... like Lauren said, a lot of people
come in to the carceral systemwith a disability.
But do you feel thata lot of people leave with one
even if they didn't have onewhen they came in?
WB (49:09):
Absolutely.
There is a different type of traumaassociated with being incarcerated.
Earlier,there was a panel that first lady M.K.
Pritzker spoke about when she first cameon, how
there were 90% of men
(49:29):
guarding women in female facilities.
So you can just... I'm going to let you sitwith that for minute.
90% of the guards were men.
And so now it has flipped.
(49:50):
90% are women.
In women facilitiesand also in District One,
the parolees have gender
sensitive parole officers, and all women
are over that district for parolees.
(50:10):
In District One, Chief Garnett said that
they were trying to implement itin other areas,
but they have accomplished itin District One.
LH (50:20):
Do you think in your work, especially with the city, in your work,
it seems like the council,the Reentry Council,
has been such a positive and strong force.
Have you encountered resistanceor has it mostly been people
behind youhelping to push and make changes?
WB (50:40):
I'll say this.
One in two individuals
either have someone in their familythat's incarcerated
or they know someone that's incarcerated
or has a prior conviction.
And so with that,
(51:00):
there was so much momentumpushing forward.
Of course,there will always be resistance,
but there were more pushing forwardfor change than there was resistance.
And that's how we were ableto move certain things.
But many people know
someone who has been formerly incarcerated
(51:23):
or have a prior conviction,
whether it is a family member,
a neighbor, themselves,
and unable to reenter with dignity.
You know, I think that once
you can put a face to reentry,
(51:46):
someone has been formerly incarcerated
or is a returning residentand they have dignity.
I served my time.
And so you will not make me ashamed
or make me feel less thanbecause I have a conviction in my past.
(52:08):
And so that is something that I believe
really supported me and my role.
I came into my roleknowing who I was as a human being.
I didn't need to explain that,
but also knowing that there were peoplethat I was working with
that had individualsthat were currently incarcerated,
(52:30):
formerly incarceratedor had a prior conviction.
And so with that being ableto just lift up people
humanely in that space
made it really easyto work with the people in that council.
And my hope isthat we can continue our work,
(52:50):
move it forward,not with just goals, but budgets
for the city agenciesthat are doing reentry work,
that they can have money set asideto really support
those that are returning residentsthat encounter their agencies.
CMC (53:10):
Yeah, I mean,
I just think about all the things we sayabout people with disabilities.
And as someone with a disability...
and how that does... all those traitsor skills really
do tie in together with, you know,being a excellent problem solver.
It sounds like that'swhat you did for years. [Laughter]
WB (53:30):
[Chuckles]
CMC (53:32):
And I see that in a lot of our clients, too.
WB (53:35):
Well, thank you, Christina. I'd like to
solve many more problems, but we'll see.
CMC (53:44):
Well, I sure hope you get to.
Thanks for listening.
Be sure to follow us on social mediaat MOPD Chicago.
I'm your co-host, Christina McGleam.
I'm your co-host, Lauren Hooberman.
(54:05):
Special thanks to our editingand recording engineer Rob Littwin,
our executive producer, CommissionerRachel Arfa.
And thank you to the staffat the Harold Washington Library.
I'm Christina McGleam, Deputy
Commissioner at the Mayor's Officefor People with Disabilities.
LH (00:06):
I'm Lauren Hooberman, director of the Career Center
for the Mayor's Officefor People with Disabilities.
CMC (00:12):
We're really excited to bring everybody together to talk about disability
related topics and how it impactsChicago residents with disabilities.
This episode focuseson the intersectionality
of people with disabilitiesand returning residents.
So, Lauren,why do you think why are we doing this?
Why did we want to create a podcast?
LH (00:32):
Well, Christina, we wanted to create a podcast for a few reasons.
I think one is it's just a really popularway for people to access information.
People listen to podcasts all the timewhen they're walking, driving,
you know, traveling.
I also think for that reason, it's easy
for us to be able to sharewith other people's stories about people
(00:55):
with disabilities in orderto show commonality among all of us.
And I think it allows for different voicesto be considered
for awareness and exposureto people and topics that you might not
otherwiselearn about in your regular life.
CMC (01:10):
Yeah, as someone with a visual impairment, I love listening.
That's definitely where I get myinformation or how I get my information.
But we just want to make surethat we point out that this podcast also
will be availablein American Sign Language.
For those of you who would prefer followthat way or need to follow that way.
Our first guest today is Ulysses Williams,
(01:33):
who is a job seeker at MOPDCareer Center.
He's an individual who identifiesas having a visual impairment
and has been working with one of ourcareer placement counselors, Jeanne McGill
since last summer.
Can you tell us a little bit
about your disabilityand what brought you to the career center?
UW (01:55):
Yes, indeed. I suffer a rare eye disease
called retinitis pigmentosa.
It's a degenerative disease.
It progresses. Eventually,
I'll be totally blind.
And how I found youguys was through DRS.
The Department of Rehabilitationfor the Blind and Visually Impaired.
CMC (02:18):
What was that like when you came the career center?
Did you meet virtually firstor over the phone?
UW (02:24):
I think I had an appointment.
The first time I met my career counselor
and the experience here at MOPD[Pronounces acronym as a word] [Laughs]
and Mayor's Officefor People with Disability Career Center.
It's wonderful.
You guys have good energy.
My counselor, she's just full of life,
(02:46):
you know, and helpful in many ways.
And so I'm appreciative of Jeanne.
And yeah, here I am because of you all.
I'm employed.
I'm working, which I'm proud of.
My first job, might I add.
So I'm thankful and grateful.
CMC (03:07):
Can you tell us a little bit about your job?
UW (03:10):
I'm a dishwasher at Whole Foods
and so my job is basically providing
the cooked food in the cooked food section,
prepared foods, dishes, clean dishes.Without the dishes being cleaned
there'll be no foodprepared and ready for the customers.
LH (03:31):
How has the job and going for you, Ulysses?
UW (03:33):
It's been nice.
Whole Foods, as well.
They have good energy,you know, they helpful
and they're willing to accommodatewherever I may need accommodations.
And so, you know, I'm grateful.
LH (03:47):
Was that something that you requested?
Did you request reasonable accommodationsfor your job?
UW (03:52):
In the interview with the store manager,
He... I didn't get a chance to.
Truthfully,he had already exposed the fact
that they're willing to accommodateand whatever I need
as far as accommodations, just, you know,don't be afraid to let them know.
And so, so far, so good.
(04:14):
I'm hands on. So, I'm good with my hands.
And so that's something I know howto do naturally anyway is wash... Bust some suds.
[Laughter]
I don't need, you know,very much accommodations for that.
Now if I take on other
responsibilities in the store,I let them know.
(04:36):
And, you know,I may need other accommodations.
And they, they told me,just let them know.
LH (04:41):
And we've heard such positive things about you in that role.
And by the way,we did not get you that job.
You were a huge part of getting that job.
CMC (04:50):
Absolutely.
UW (04:52):
I like to think so.
LH (04:53):
You should! [Crosstalk]
UW (04:56):
Yeah.
LH (04:57):
Ulysses, where are you living currently? UW
I'm in
a re-entry center.
It's a place that IDOC sends you to
as an award for good behavior,
and it's supposed to be set up
to help you with employmentwhere you can save money
(05:22):
and/or other programs and servicessuch as schooling
and things of that naturethat would allow you
to havea successful reentry back into society.
And that's where I'm at now.
I'm due to parole from that establishment
in July 14th, 2023.
(05:45):
And so you'll have been there for a year, is that correct?
UW (05:49):
13 and a half months, to be exact.
So you came from... where did you come from?
Dixon Correctional Facility.
LH (05:58):
And how long were you there?
UW (06:00):
Nine and a half years.
CMC (06:02):
And while you were there, did you receive any accommodations?
UW (06:06):
Yes, I did, although I had to fight for them.
But schooling, I had to fight for that.
They provided me with the cane.
They provided me with a talking watch.
I had to fight for the protective glasses
because I am also photosensitive. Overall,
I eventually got the accommodationsI needed, and so here I am.
LH (06:31):
How did you learn those advocacy skills?
How did you know that you had to fightand how did you figure out how to do that?
UW (06:38):
Well, while incarcerated,
I did have some good people around me,
positive people,fellow residents in the facility.
I wanted to,you know, educate myself and learn
specifically, more about law.
I reached out to some people,such as Equip for Equality.
(07:01):
They wound up taking the case of mine, [that] I filed.
And we...and that was about the education part,
because they was not prepared for visuallyimpaired persons at the facility.
And so I was seeking to get my GEDand further
schooling afterwardsas well as learn Braille.
(07:26):
And they just was like shooing me off.
And so I had to
file a grievanceand go through the grievance procedures.
And then I reached out Equipfor Equality and they took my case.
And then you got the accommodationsthat you needed.
LH (07:42):
Then you were able to have access to those educational resources and tools. UW Yes.
Although they still didn't have certain
auxiliary aids to assist me in the class.
I'm grateful.
I'm a fastlearner and I had another resident
(08:02):
who they employed as sort of a tutor,
and I kind of like helped him
teach me.
Okay.
So there was an individual who helpedto facilitate some of your learning.
Kind of served as a tutor. UW
CMC (08:19):
But you had to help them learn how to help you. UW
So everything I learnedwas really muscle memory
because we had the computer.
They had the... what they callthe new... It's a new G.E.D.
program...
iPathways is what they call it.
(08:42):
And so I would have to see the computer
in order to operate and get the work done.
But as you all know, I can't see the,you know, the computer.
And so he had to serveas sort of like my scribe.
LH (08:59):
Mm hmm.
UW (09:00):
He wrote whatever notes I told him to write,
and he did the labor on the computer,
so he had to find a skillful wayof teaching me
when it comes to, like,let's say, for instance, mathematics,
mathematical equationsand things of that nature.
He found a skillful way of helping meget the mental picture
(09:25):
as to what he was trying to teach me.
And it worked.
You know, it was it was it was helpful.
Although I still didn't achieve my G.E.D.
due to COVID,
they shut everything down.
And then shortly after I was transferredto the Reentry Center.
Unfortunately.
LH (09:47):
Unfortunately, that you didn't achieve your GED by then.
UW (09:50):
Yeah. But I intend to.
It was just still a barrier, though,because you weren't
able to learn how to use the computerthen, right?
CMC (09:58):
They didn't have the software you needed? UW
And that's what I mean by they didn't have
all of the... auxiliary aids.
Excuse me, in the class that they weresupposed to have to assist me.
But you're taking computer classes now, right? UW
Okay, That's great.
UW (10:17):
I'm totally,
Truth be told, computer illiterate.
So I got to learnhow to operate the keyboard,
and then I can move forwardto, you know, being able
to browse and search on the computer,taking it one step at a time.
LH (10:34):
Were there other barriers that you encountered
while you were in prison, asidefrom the ones that we just discussed?
UW (10:43):
I mean, the auxiliary aid that I had
and the ambulatory aidethat they provided me, which was a person
like if I would go out on passes,he was the person who would assist me.
I completed several programs and services
that they had then at the facility.
(11:06):
And I can't even count how many.
But there was timeswhere he may not have been
available due to a visit or whatever.
He might have had personallygoing on in his case or whatever
that I won't bewithout like help and support.
And then, you know, they kind offeel like it kind of puts you out of place
(11:28):
because coming from the man
I'm used to being, which is independent,
you know, to lose my vision,it's like a humbling situation
to have to depend on a person
to assist me in life and that'skind of like a hard pill to swallow.
(11:49):
So I had to, like, ask for support andhelp in that area, and I got through it.
But to say that is fair, I don't think so.
LH (12:00):
And then once
you're finished there, July 14th, is that what you said? UW
So then the next step is that you'll be living independently.
Will you have any contact with anyone from
the carceral system?
UW (12:18):
I don't intend to.
LH (12:19):
Mm hmm.
UW (12:20):
Hopefully,
they help get me into my own apartment.
I heard some talks about them doing so,and so.
Hopefully, you know, that come to fruition
because outside of them doing that,then I will be homeless.
LH (12:41):
Mm hmm.
UW (12:42):
I will probably have to go to a shelter
and start from ground zero.
CMC (12:47):
Does it happen a lot?
Because that common for peopleto have to go to a shelter?
UW (12:52):
Um, no, because most people, either they have wives or they have women.
They probably alreadyhad homes established
before their incarceration,or, some of them,
they just choose to go home with family.
Um, me and my position,I don't have that luxury.
(13:13):
Truth be told, if I did, I would wantto because I'm my own man
and I need to stand on
my own two feetand get where I need to be as a man.
And I can't see myself as almost
being 40-year-old mangoing to live with my mother.
LH (13:29):
Do you anticipate that that will be a big adjustment for you
moving from the transition centerinto your own place?
UW (13:38):
Yes, I do.
Prayerfully that it happen.
I'm looking forward to it.
It would be unfortunate for meto have to spend my money
that I maketo have to rent me an apartment.
But if so, then I just.
I must do what I must do.
And I've witnessed them
(13:59):
parole a guy out to his own apartmentthrough their program.
and he's not disabled.
So I'm hoping that they'll bea little more accommodating
in that area,you know, and help me get into my own.
LH (14:17):
Ulysses, when you were at Dixon, did you meet a lot of other
inmates who had disabilities?
UW (14:25):
Yes, unfortunately.
Dixon is more of a mental institution,
although they have normal people,but also as well.
That's the most as far as disability,as mentally disturbed residents.
I know a few, um,personally like myself, some
that were totallyblind and visually impaired.
(14:50):
Some were in wheelchairs, you know,
some had no legs,some had limbs missing... arms, you know.
LH (14:57):
Were those some of the same people that taught you how to advocate for yourself?
UW (15:02):
One guy I met him, he was he's a visually impaired guy as well.
And he one of the guys who helped
teach me how to advocate for myself
specifically legally, as far as learningthe law and constitution.
You know, I give thanks to himbecause if it wasn't for him,
(15:23):
I probably wouldn'thave been as successful at gaining
a lot of things that I should havehad coming in the first place,
you know, advocating for myselfand others like me.
LH (15:34):
I wanted to ask a little bit about when you got your release date.
How did you feelwhen you got your release date from Dixon?
UW (15:42):
Honestly, it was unbelievable because I put in for and that's another thing.
Speaking to advocate for myself,I qualified overqualified
for the work releasebecause they had been passed a law
where they allow violent offendersto go to work release
and guys were going to workrelease left and right
(16:03):
and some guys that that were going to workrelease
my discipline that we work at farexceeded theirs.
I've never been to seg.
I've never gotten any trouble.
You know, I've completedjust about every program
and servicethat they had to provide our life.
I was like a model prisonerand so when I put in
(16:25):
for the work release, they denied meand told me that I was properly placed.
And soI reached out to Equip for Equality again.
And so they pushed them to explainwhat did they mean by “properly placed.”
Because I was in the health care facilityat the correctional center,
because being there, does thatexclude me from, you know,
(16:48):
having an equal opportunity going tothe reentry center like all other people?
And so they wasn't willing to
to literally say what they meant by it.
And so I had to threatencivil action again.
And so they denied me in December
of 2022,
(17:12):
four months later, well, actually,six months, because June 11 is
when I got surprised and they told methat, hey, you're being transferred.
I'm like, where? You’re going to the ATC program.
That's our adult transitional center.
That's just another wordfor reentry center work release.
(17:33):
You know, and I was shocked.
I guess they'd rather do the right thingthan for me to take them back to court.
And so.
CMC (17:39):
So you didn't have to, like, file again? UW
That settlement
was them to do the right thingand allow me to go to the reentry center
so we didn't have to.
We came to an agreement then.
Well, they did,because I hadn't heard from my lawyer
I talked to and April, and she told meshe would be getting back with me.
(18:00):
And then I never heard from her.
I just up and got a surprise
saying I was being transferred.[Laughs]
LH (18:09):
Ulysses, what do you imagine
for yourself in the next... one,
three, five years?Thinking about both short term and long
term, what do you imagineor what do you hope for yourself?
UW (18:22):
Well, short term, first and foremost, is to get some stability,
meaning I need to have my own roofover my head long term.
After that,saving money is building my credit,
such as when I'm working on nowand investing into real estate,
(18:42):
which is one of the thingsthat I have a passion for.
And from there, invest in mesome box trucks.
LH (18:50):
We're very happy for you
and proud of you,and we celebrate your success
and we're really happy to have you heretoday.
We think you're doing an amazing joband we're here for you with each step.
CMC (19:03):
Yeah, absolutely. UW
You say that, and it's a pleasurebeing here with you guys.
Any time.
Yeah.
We've learned a lot from you
and really proud of what you've gottento accomplish so far.
More to come. LH: Yeah. UW: Yeah. Well, blessings.
LH (19:25):
Our second guest today is Willette Benford.
Ms. Benford is the Director of Reentryfor the City of Chicago Mayor's office.
Ms.. Benford is a champion forthose formerly and currently incarcerated
to receive fair treatment, and she worksas a fierce advocate to ensure
that progress and transformativechange is being made.
(19:48):
Director Benford,
can you talk to us about your roleat the City of Chicago?
WB (19:53):
I like to say that my role has three prongs
The inner agency, the Mayor's Inner AgencyReentry Council.
I oversee that.
It's a bi monthly meetingwhere we meet together
with all city agenciesand some sister agencies,
and we meet around shaping goalsfor reentry.
That piece.
(20:14):
We also have the policy sideand the programmatic side,
but I'll stay with the interagency sidefor a minute.
We had like 17 agencies
that developed goals around reentry,
and those goals were specifically geared
to how these agenciescould support returning residents.
(20:35):
And that is something that we presentedto the mayor for 2023 to ensure
that reentry was at the top of the listand also that agency.
Some of the agencies, don't get me wrong,
we're doing really great workwhen I came on and, you know,
just really building relationshipswith other city agencies
to get on board with doing reentry workand we began to meet around,
(20:59):
I would say, July,
and we met bi monthlyevery two months after that.
And the engagementand the way that city agencies
and individualsthat work with the city were engaged.
It was phenomenal.
And the goals have been amazing
that they came up with. Alsothe policy part,
(21:20):
You know, we have developed leading policythat is national leading,
for instance,our Fair Chance hiring policy,
which has a historicfive year lookback period.
Anyone convicted of a felony,
anything older than five yearswon't be considered.
There's many prongs to it.
(21:41):
Also, there'san individualized assessment process.
So even if you have been convictedwithin that
timeframe, you can still havean individualized assessment.
And if what you've done has nothing to dowith the job that you are performing,
you could still be consideredfor that job.
And finally, the programmatic side,
which is programing through DFSSand the Spring Forward programing,
(22:06):
we have Community Reentry Support Centers,you know, just really
those necessary resources from the top,the city agencies
all the way to the grassroots programingto make sure that individuals
that are coming homefrom incarceration are set up for success.
LH (22:24):
Mm hmm.
Is your rolethe first of its kind for the city?
WB (22:28):
It is the first Director of Reentry for the City of Chicago.
Yes. LH
She was my mayor.
LH (22:38):
Okay, whatever. [Laughter]
CMC (22:39):
Well... [Laughter] LH
She was my mayor too!
WB (22:42):
You know... [Laughter]
See, you gotta keep it a little light too, Lauren
LH (22:48):
Yeah.
WB (22:49):
No, I had never worked with Mayor Lightfoot
But what I did workwith Mayor Lightfoot on...
And let me back up a bit. Yes, I did.
We had the Returning ResidentsWorking Group.
She convened thatbecause she wanted to know
what were the challenges that returningresidents were facing when they came home.
That issue was very dear to her.
(23:10):
She had a brotherwho served over 17 years inside,
and so the issue was dear to her heart.
And what happened was we convenedthe returning Residents Working Group,
which was made up of communityleaders, policy individuals,
government officials, and, of course,those that were directly impacted.
And what we did waswe looked at the challenges,
(23:33):
came up with recommendations,and then we presented it to the mayor.
And in November of 2021, Mayor Lightfootsigned an executive order
creating the Inter-Agency Reentry Counciland also allocating
13 million dollarsto reentry based off the recommendations
from the Returning ResidentsWorking Group.
I was a part of that group.
CMC (23:54):
What were you doing before?
I was organizing for Live Free Illinois,which is a faith-based organization.
We organize churches, faithcommunities, community leaders,
those directly impacted around gunviolence and mass incarceration.
And I was their leaddecarceration organizer
and so we organized across the state,built out
(24:17):
a chapter in Rockfordorganizing churches in Rockford.
You mentioned that you were directly impacted.
Can you talk to usa little bit about that?
WB (24:26):
Yeah, When I say directly impacted, you know,
normallypeople use the word[s] “formerly incarcerated.”
I use “returning resident”and “directly impacted,”
because I spenta significant amount of time inside.
And I often saythat I was criminalized for surviving.
I was given another chance, a fair chancewhen domestic violence
(24:48):
was made a mitigating factorin sentencing, the law changed.
And so one of the biggest law firms in theworld, Kirkland and Ellis, took my case
for free, pro bono, and fought for meas if I paid the millions of dollars.
And in 2019,February of 2019, February 6th,
I walked out of Cook CountyJail, a free woman.
LH (25:10):
You were at Cook County Jail?
WB (25:12):
I came back to Cook County Jail, after
being remanded from IDOC to get the immediate release.
But yes, I spentfour months in Cook County Jail in 2019.
LH (25:23):
Oh, my gosh... WB
And there were many things that I spokeabout there, you know, as well,
because even in the women's division,there are times
when women are treated in a way
that is not gender sensitive.
You know, and I say that because
(25:45):
I was next to a woman in a cell
that clearly had mental health issuesand she was in a cell
and we talked to peopleabout getting her some help.
And I'm sure eventually she got some help.
But at that point,
she should never had to have come to jailto get mental health treatment.
(26:05):
You know, I'm huge on that. Mental health
treatment, even after incarceration,
you know, a therapist, behavioral healththerapy, is really key to individual's
success.
And I talked aboutbeing directly impacted, but
I spent over two decades inside.
Yeah.
That is something thatwhen I talk about it,
(26:28):
I talk about itbecause individuals that have spent
a significant amount of time insidedoes not make them inadequate
or also does not make them ineligibleto be able to do certain work.
And so, I think that it should be lifted upthat even if you've done
a significant amount of time,
(26:49):
you still should be providedwith the resources necessary
to reenter societyand be a productive member of society.
And what are some of those resources?
Therapy, mental health services.
Also housing, you know, affordable
housing, also economic mobility.
Not just a job. A job with a livable wage.
(27:11):
People don't want to wake up, bill
insecure, rent insecure, food insecure,
especially when you have childrenor even just for yourself.
You know, economic mobility,
you know, and those kind of things,family reunification,
making sure that there are settingsso that individuals, women with children
and also we have men... 50% of the menthat are incarcerated are parents.
(27:36):
And so reunification with their children,
making sure that we provide those spaces
so that individuals that have childrencan be set up for success.
Because when you are supportingan individual,
you're not just supporting them.
When they come home,you're supporting their family, too.
And this is a holistic approach would besomething that would be beneficial
(27:58):
not only to the individualbut to our city,
because these same individualswill pump gas at the same gas station
You pump at. We shop at the same stores,
our kids go to some of the same schoolsas your children.
And all an individual wantsis to be set up for success
and provided with resources.Not a handout, but a hand up.
(28:21):
Mm hmm.
Do you think that in the citythat people are providing these resources
or do you think this is our visionand we're working toward it?
Like, where do you think that we fallin the city of Chicago
with being ableto provide these resources?
WB (28:37):
I think in an answer to your question is two-part;
there are places where we havefailed as a city to do that.
But then there are also opportunitiesthat we've taken
recently to be able to provide thingsfor individuals.
For instance,like I said, the Spring Forward program.
It is a great program.
We're partnering, DFSS is partnering,with IDOC and Cook County Jail.
(29:02):
It is a 12 monthrental subsidy with fair-market rent,
where they are paying an individual's rentfor 12 months.
It's 400 individuals.
A subset of those individualswill be granted housing for 12 months.
There is workforce training for 24 months
with a paid stipend,you know, minimum-wage, paid stipend.
(29:25):
But getting that trainingso that they can move
into a job that payswell enough to be able to pay their rent.
So that will be for 24 weeksplus complete wraparound services
so that they can get behavior health,they can get transportation,
everything that's needed in orderto set them up for success.
It is a pilot.
(29:46):
And so with the pilot,there are 400 individuals
and then there will be 160that will benefit from the rental subsidy.
But as well as this goes, we can see
how can we as a city and other agenciesget on board to help expand that.
LH (30:02):
And economically, if someone just wants to look
at the financial aspectof doing something like that program.
Economically, does it make sense?
Is someone going to turn around and say,well, this program is just too expensive?
You know,“this is a blank-million-dollar program.
So it's not sustainable for us to continuewith all these supports.”
WB (30:22):
Let's say this; it costs over
$50,000, maybe even more,
to keep an individual incarcerated.
That is a salary.
LH (30:35):
For one year. WB
That's a salary.
And so let's just think about
reallocating some of the moneythat we take to keep
an individual incarceratedand put it into programing
resources, housing subsidies
and wraparound services, and then see,
(30:56):
should we keep a person in a cageor should we bring them home
and provide resources so that they canprovide for their families?
There's a saying that saysif I give you a fish sandwich,
you eat for a day, but if I teach youhow to fish, you eat for a lifetime.
And so in teaching an individualhow to provide for themselves
(31:17):
and their families,I think it would be beneficial for us all.
CMC (31:20):
Can you talk to us a little bit about the work you're doing at the city level?
WB (31:24):
Absolutely.
I touched on the fair chance hiring piece
because it gives an individualan opportunity
to provide for their families,but also even with a record,
the city always hired people with records,but individuals didn't know it.
And so now what this doesis give a more transparent process,
(31:45):
but also it has a cutoff time ofwhen or how far back
you can look in a person's pastif it is five years or older
and has nothing to do with the grantfunding or some of the funding
that is going into that,then it's off limits.
And that is huge because five years
(32:06):
lookback period for a city jobwith benefits, insurance and things
like that, that is huge for a personthat is a returning resident
and then a seven year lookbackperiod for mayor office positions.
Yes, that was cutting edge.
It was leading.
It was you know, it was like, let's do it.
And so the ordinance passed on February16th.
(32:28):
The mayor signed itand it went into effect immediately.
Also, there is equitable languageon the city's website
that specifically says we hire returningresidents or individuals with convictions.
And that is right therewhere it's 2500 jobs annually.
(32:49):
On the city's website right there,it says that we hire individuals
with prior convictionsso that too, was huge.
Another thing we'll be doing iswe will have a microsite
that will go live on April 10th.
It is a micrositethat is all things reentry.
You know, it'll have some of the resourcesabout reentry.
(33:10):
It'll talk about jobs and workforcetraining.
Also, lately,we've heard a lot around the registries
and so working to make surethat that process is streamlined
so that individuals can register,get registered and not get violated.
And so making surethat that information is up there.
Also,a know your rights piece will be on there.
(33:31):
And then the city has just built outthe 211 site.
And so there will be a linkto the 211 site,
but there's also a linkfor reentry on the 211 site.
So, it's good work and I'm just hoping
that it'll continuebecause we need it to continue.
LH (33:50):
Director Benford, you're such a strong advocate.
How did you to learn these advocacy skills
and when did you learn to be ableto advocate for yourself and others?
WB (34:03):
I learned inside, Lauren. I had to advocate
for myself and others inside.
There were many thingsthat were done to women
that was very dehumanizing in prison.
If I mentioned some of those things,it would just... probably horrify you.
(34:23):
However, I knew
the strength of a pen,and so I began to write
and I would write and write and write
until the wrongs were made right.
And so, that was something that
has always been in my heart;to see an injustice
(34:46):
and say “that is wrong”
and not just talk about it,but what can I do to change it?
And I'll tell you, an incidentthat happened inside.
I wasn't always a good girl, as they say.So I went to Seg for something...
LH (35:05):
Tell us what “Seg” is.
WB (35:06):
Seg is when they segregate you
from general populationfor an infraction of one of the rules.
And so I was in segregation, and
I had a roommate who had a mental illness.
And every time she encountered
(35:28):
the correctional officers,there would be an altercation.
And shecame in with just a couple of years
and they had tacked on timeand time and time.
And so what I did was
I wrote a letter to the prisonerreview board for her,
(35:50):
and they heard itbecause they kept giving her time, but
they didn't take care of herand give her the meds
and things that she needed.[Voice quivers slightly]
I'm sorry.
I just that kind of... Yeah.
But she eventually got that.
And when she went home, she wrote me
(36:15):
and she thanked me
for writing that letter for her
because they got rid of all the extra time.She went to see them
and they took it offand she was able to go home.
But she had years tacked on
just because she wasn't treated
(36:38):
for her mental illness. Things like that.
You know,I've had to write grievances about jobs
that were only given to white women.
You know,
they didn't give them to black girls
and I wrote a six pagegrievance on racism and discrimination.
(36:58):
I didn't get the jobbecause they gave me a minor ticket,
but they began to hire women of colorat a rapid pace.
And some of them are home todaybecause they were
able to get daysbecause they could get that job.
But things like that,having to advocate on the inside
(37:19):
and then coming out and being deniedhousing.
That catapulted me into the work here.
LH (37:29):
Incredible.
Yeah. WB
That is amazing about that woman and that she got out and that she thanked you.
And are you in touch with her now at all?
WB (37:40):
No, I'm not.
No, but there were many womenthat I mentored and, you know, supported
while they were inside,that I am in contact with
and that wrote me.
And because, you know, I am a believer.
You know, I taught Bible studyfor 13 years while I was inside.
(38:03):
And just, really...my faith has carried me a lot of places.
And it has helped me support others
when they were in difficult situations.
Because even with the amount of timethat I had,
I knew that we still had a reason to live
(38:26):
and that the
law could change any dayand you could go home.
So when a 18-year-old sits on my bedand says,
“I'm thinking about killing myself,”inside. Then you have to think about
how do you support her
(38:46):
in knowing that she has a lot to live forin a cage?
LH (38:51):
Mm hmm.
What kinds of things do you think peoplehave to live for on the inside?
WB (38:55):
Their children. Their families.
Knowing that we live
in a carceral system,that could change overnight.
A lot could change overnight.
And you could go home tomorrow.
Because there are advocateson the outside, in this space,
fighting every day to change policy
(39:20):
and to change lawsso that you could come home to
your family,because we know that there are sentencing
disparitieswhen it comes to certain populations.
CMC (39:33):
When you were inside, did you meet a lot of people with disabilities?
Oh, I remember meeting a young lady
in the nineties?
She was blind.
And it wasn't
where they had the program,with assistance...
(39:54):
assisting peoplewith disabilities at the time.
So you know she would have to get somebodyon the unit,
to walk her to what we call the chowhall, which is where you go to eat.
And you know, any place she needed to go,she had to have someone, a sister,
she had to havesomeone be her eyes for her.
(40:17):
And so I remember when they begin to put
the little Braillethings up by the bathroom and different
areas like the visiting roomand, you know, places like that.
But also when the...I remember when they implemented that,
you could apply for the job to be a personwith disabilities assistant.
(40:39):
And it became a full time assignment.
I remember when they built rampsfor people with wheelchairs
and limited movement that people were able
to get up to their housing unitwithout so much of a struggle.
LH (40:56):
Director Benford,
it seems like you could work in somany areas related to the carceral system,
like you could work aroundgetting more reforms on the inside.
How did you decide that you wanted yourenergy to be around returning residents?
WB (41:14):
As I said, Lauren,
I didn't plan to work in this field.
[Laughter]
It was by...
by chance.Because when I was denied housing,
I actually went through
a transitional house, Grace House,
(41:36):
and they offeredall kinds of services.
But when it came to housing, I was denied
based off a 26-year-old conviction.
26 years.
And so when that happened,we had just passed
(41:59):
the Just Housing Amendment ordinancein Cook County.
I was part of a coalition that helped passthat to make it illegal to deny
someone housingbased off their background alone.
And so I began to advocate for myself.
I told them, I said,“you know, it's illegal for you to deny me
housing based off my background.”
(42:21):
And so for a week and a half,
we went through this, through email.
And people that were part of the coalitionwere preparing for the fight.
And so, a week and a half later, “Miss Benford,we apologize.
We were wrong.”
Actually, their policy has changed
(42:44):
because that let me know thatif they did it to me, how many women
before mehad they denied based simply off
of a 20-year-old conviction?
And that catapulted me into the work.
Let's say this
(43:06):
If an individual
could be supported
with the finance that you spendto keep them incarcerated for,
let's say, ten years
and you pay to keep them incarcerated,you don't provide any resources.
And when they come back home
(43:28):
and they have nothing
and they have no resourcesand they have no education,
you say that they are a threat to society.
That threat was that
when society had the opportunity
(43:50):
to support this individual in reentry,it failed
because you can no more
throw someone in a cage
and treat them inhumanely.
Year after year after year after year.
(44:11):
And then when they come home, doabsolutely nothing for them
and then expect themto return to society as a
“productive member”
of society.
It's inhumane.
It's inhumane for our elected officials.
(44:34):
Anyone in government
that says that an investment in people
is not a great investment.
That is wrong. Because,
of course,the carceral system is the punishment.
But when an individual comes home
(44:54):
and there are lifetime barriersto reentry,
then what?
What are we doing?
Are we relegating people to a second-class state? Which was intentional
I know it was.
I'm answering my own question,but at some point
we got to say, look,we got to support people.
(45:18):
They are taxpaying citizens.
They have families.
They've served their time.
And how do we set them up for success
so that they can be productivein our community?
LH (45:31):
Thinking about individuals
who are currently incarceratedor were formerly incarcerated.
I was just doing some researchbefore our session with you
and was readingthat about 66% of incarcerated people
self-reported a disability. With black,Hispanic and multiracial disabled men,
(45:52):
especially beingoverrepresented in prisons.
And is this surprising to youat all, that percentage?
WB (45:59):
Not at all.
Not at all.
And let me say this:
Even with disabilities,there's a wide range of disabilities.
Being dyslexic is a disability.
And so it doesn'tmean that you're not smart.
It means you learn different.
(46:21):
And so to be penalized for that is like...
...Okay, so now we're going to make you payfor the way that you were born.
And you cannot have this job or thisbecause you're dyslexic.
That makes no sense.
LH (46:39):
Yeah.
And of that statistic, of the 66%from this study that were self-reported,
they broke it down into 40% who reported
having a psychiatric typeof diagnosis or disability.
Bipolar disorder,schizophrenia, depressive disorder, PTSD.
And then 56% were non-psychiatric.
(47:01):
These are their words, the highestbeing a cognitive disability, ADHD.
And then another category was anyonewho reported previously
being in, quote unquote,“special ed classes in school.”
WB (47:16):
Absolutely.
And here's the thing.
When we talk about disabilitiesor we talk about trauma,
unaddressed trauma produces
mental illnessor it exacerbates it, because
when trauma on top of trauma
on top of trauma that is unaddressed,there is going to be a break
(47:41):
sooner or later. A mental break. Because,
how do I process all of these thingsthat have happened to me
without the support that I need?
I'm not getting it.
You know, and I thank Mayor Lightfoot
for the 77 communities that have TICC’s in them,
(48:03):
because that is a TraumaInformed Center of Care.
See, you know, we use acronymsat the city all the time,
And then we have to think aboutwhat they mean when people put you on the spot. [Laughter]
CMC (48:17):
Sorry about that! [Laughter]
WB (48:18):
But yeah, it's a trauma informed center of care.
CDPH has done a great job
with making sure that all 77 communitiesin the city of Chicago,
will have a trauma informed center of carewhere regardless of your insurance
or your income,you can access mental health services.
CMC (48:40):
And some of those are in the libraries too, right?
WB (48:43):
Yes, they are currently starting a pilot in the libraries
because people sometimeswith mental health issues
gravitate towardsthe quiet place, which is the library.
CMC (48:56):
And I know a lot of... like Lauren said, a lot of people
come in to the carceral systemwith a disability.
But do you feel thata lot of people leave with one
even if they didn't have onewhen they came in?
WB (49:09):
Absolutely.
There is a different type of traumaassociated with being incarcerated.
Earlier,there was a panel that first lady M.K.
Pritzker spoke about when she first cameon, how
there were 90% of men
(49:29):
guarding women in female facilities.
So you can just... I'm going to let you sitwith that for minute.
90% of the guards were men.
And so now it has flipped.
(49:50):
90% are women.
In women facilitiesand also in District One,
the parolees have gender
sensitive parole officers, and all women
are over that district for parolees.
(50:10):
In District One, Chief Garnett said that
they were trying to implement itin other areas,
but they have accomplished itin District One.
LH (50:20):
Do you think in your work, especially with the city, in your work,
it seems like the council,the Reentry Council,
has been such a positive and strong force.
Have you encountered resistanceor has it mostly been people
behind youhelping to push and make changes?
WB (50:40):
I'll say this.
One in two individuals
either have someone in their familythat's incarcerated
or they know someone that's incarcerated
or has a prior conviction.
And so with that,
(51:00):
there was so much momentumpushing forward.
Of course,there will always be resistance,
but there were more pushing forwardfor change than there was resistance.
And that's how we were ableto move certain things.
But many people know
someone who has been formerly incarcerated
(51:23):
or have a prior conviction,
whether it is a family member,
a neighbor, themselves,
and unable to reenter with dignity.
You know, I think that once
you can put a face to reentry,
(51:46):
someone has been formerly incarcerated
or is a returning residentand they have dignity.
I served my time.
And so you will not make me ashamed
or make me feel less thanbecause I have a conviction in my past.
(52:08):
And so that is something that I believe
really supported me and my role.
I came into my roleknowing who I was as a human being.
I didn't need to explain that,
but also knowing that there were peoplethat I was working with
that had individualsthat were currently incarcerated,
(52:30):
formerly incarceratedor had a prior conviction.
And so with that being ableto just lift up people
humanely in that space
made it really easyto work with the people in that council.
And my hope isthat we can continue our work,
(52:50):
move it forward,not with just goals, but budgets
for the city agenciesthat are doing reentry work,
that they can have money set asideto really support
those that are returning residentsthat encounter their agencies.
CMC (53:10):
Yeah, I mean,
I just think about all the things we sayabout people with disabilities.
And as someone with a disability...
and how that does... all those traitsor skills really
do tie in together with, you know,being a excellent problem solver.
It sounds like that'swhat you did for years. [Laughter]
WB (53:30):
[Chuckles]
CMC (53:32):
And I see that in a lot of our clients, too.
WB (53:35):
Well, thank you, Christina. I'd like to
solve many more problems, but we'll see.
CMC (53:44):
Well, I sure hope you get to.
Thanks for listening.
Be sure to follow us on social mediaat MOPD Chicago.
I'm your co-host, Christina McGleam.
I'm your co-host, Lauren Hooberman.
(54:05):
Special thanks to our editingand recording engineer Rob Littwin,
our executive producer, CommissionerRachel Arfa.
And thank you to the staffat the Harold Washington Library.
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