Ep.57 Maine

Chilling Encounters and Haunted Halls: Investigating the Paranormal Mysteries of Poland Spring Resort

Discover another spine-chilling adventure on this episode of "No Lights Paranormal." Join Joe, Teresa, and Alex as they dig into the paranormally-packed history of Poland Spring Resort in Maine – an elegant location rumored to harbor spirits and healing water. Our trio of ghost hunters navigate through eerie tales, intense investigations, and reminiscent narratives of past ghostly encounters.

This episode takes the spotlight on Teresa's in-depth uncovering of Poland Spring Resorts’ supernatural history. The location, known for its healing water, had endeared the nation's elite and cured countless suffering from dyspepsia. Are the waters the cure, or do the resort’s spirits warrant the accolades? Tune in and embark on this spooky, yet enlightening expedition with our fearless paranormal excavators.

Dive deep into the haunting legacy of Poland Springs Inn as we delve into Cindy’s remarkable journey; from a humble waitress to marrying the man who would save the historic property from demolition, Mel. Listen to how their lives were turned upside down by a devastating fire, Mel’s battle with Alzheimer’s, and the enduring spirit they maintained while adding a new layer of their own spirited history to the inn.

Sink your teeth into the spine-tingling tales of medium Nellie Butler, a mysterious figure who caused quite the stir in the coastal town of Sullivan. Was her apparition real or simply an elaborate hoax? Join us as we dissect her documented interactions, prophecies, and the implications they created in the local society.

Finally, stir your curiosity into the mysterious with the hosts' educated discourse on paranormal investigation and their skepticism of self-proclaimed psychics. Debate alongside them on subjects like alien existence, ghostly energy, and the intriguing theories on high-speed cameras capturing spectral phenomena.

Whether you're an avid fan of the supernatural or simply looking for a bone-chilling tale, each gripping narrative invites the listeners into exploring the unknown, making it an episode that shouldn't be missed.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of No Lights Paranormal,
where three nerdy paranormal investigators sit down and discuss spooky stories
from the web. My name is Joe. I'm the lead investigator.
My name is Teresa, and I am the researcher.
My name is Alex. I am the Baba Yaga enthusiast and the equipment setter-upper.
All right. I thought you were going to go longer with that, but okay.

(00:22):
Nah, I'm just flowing into a rhythm now.
We're good. I gotcha. I thought you were going to prolong the equipment setter-upper kind of thing.
But yeah all right gotcha but all right so we're doing maine this week maine maine maine,
which i cannot tell you how many times i typed in maine in my research and it

(00:44):
apparently i was spelling maine wrong i forgot to put the i,
so or it would auto correct it to ma any so lions came up and i'm like i don't
look what That's not what I'm talking about. Right.
Oh, that's fun. Haunted Minds. Got it. Yeah. Scary.
Ghosts in the Darkness. Good movie, though. But, yeah. All right.

(01:07):
So, yes. Any announcements in the way that we got to get out of?
Oh, just a couple of basic ones as far as paranormal events go for the end of May.
Looks like we've got something coming up on May the, oh gosh,
what was it? It was the 30th from 8 to 10.
That is a Saturday. at the Collinwood Arts Center in Toledo.

(01:28):
They're doing a public ghost hunt of the Collinwood Arts Center,
which looks pretty cool, to be perfectly honest.
And then, of course, we all know that ParasiteCon was this past weekend.
I hope that everybody went and had a phenomenal time.
It is the season for ghost hunts, especially public ones. So they've got Mayfield,

(01:49):
Ohio is is doing Ghosts of the Heartland.
You've got public ghost hunts at the Mansfield Reformatory.
You've got public ghost hunts at Madison Seminary, all kinds of super, super fun stuff.
Paranormal Investigation at the Haunted Majestic coming up this month,
and that's in Huntington, West
Virginia, which is actually just kind of a skip from here, so it counts.

(02:14):
And then a Paranormal Investigation of the Lincoln's Way Vineyards is going
to be coming up on June 7th in Wootown, Worcester, Ohio.
Yeah basic stuff basic stuff Spooks and Spirits Miamisburg Ghost Walking Tour
June 14th at the Star City Brewing Company in Miamisburg, Ohio.

(02:36):
Looks like some interesting and fun stuff this
is a season for paranormal conventions too I know ours just passed
but there are a lot in the couple states radius like
I said you go start the elements that come
out in the summer so right right all
kinds of craziness yeah so yeah if you want to know about uh mansfield reformatory

(02:56):
or madison seminary then i would highly recommend that you go ahead and just
check out their specific web pages because they are doing things most weekends
from here until you know winter basically right so yeah,
super fun super fun because ghost hunting in the winter not a thing i mean it
is a thing it just most of these buildings are not heated so you know yeah well

(03:19):
that's what i was meaning it's It's not a thing because we lived it.
Four and a half degrees. It wasn't fun.
Madison, not heated. Oh my God. I've never been so cold in my life.
I'm pretty sure I had hypothermia.
Well, you're alive, so. Well, that doesn't mean I didn't recover.
Okay. So, all right. Announcements out of the way. Is there anything that No

(03:39):
Lights Paranormal has to say for this week? Yeah. Or are we good on everything?
So, No Lights Paranormal is, we're dealing with two, two major things at the moment.
Neither one of them have a definitive date scheduled just yet,
but one of them is that we got a very interesting video from our buddy Marty

(04:04):
the Mason at Lodi Harrisville Masonic Lodge in Lodi, Ohio.
Ohio, and he was just basically closing up shop, doing some miscellaneous things
prior to locking the building up on this particular evening where they did a
big old flower sale, which is like an annual fundraiser for them.

(04:24):
And he messages me and he says he walked into a dark building and he shows me
a picture of the room that is most definitely not dark.
So clearly there was a light on that
should not have been and was not on prior to
this i love the caption i walked into a

(04:44):
dark building and then he sent me
a video that basically is just his face saying
you are absolutely not going to believe this shit
and he goes on to tell me a very interesting
story he took some very interesting photos
that feature some what appear to
potentially be orbs but that's

(05:06):
going to take a little bit more digging because
it's also one light shining very very
brightly in an otherwise dark room could potentially
be camera flare we'll take a closer look at that but either way the consensus
was get your asses down here we're putting shit in a burrito okay so it's time

(05:29):
for us to go and do that very might be time to test out if i could get it It tests out my theory.
Yes, we could definitely. That I'll explain later in a podcast.
Yeah, we'll discuss that in a little bit. I already heard it and I think it's
kind of cool. So we'll go with that.
But yeah, I'm going to go ahead and just pass my telephone over to Joe so he
can check out these pictures.
I haven't posted them or anything yet because, you know, I don't want to be

(05:52):
like, oh, it's an orb if I don't know that it's an orb, you know.
But yeah, so, and then the other thing that we got going on is we're going to
start, it's about time for us to start planning Halloween events,
ghost walks and things like that.
So I've been putting a lot of effort and energy into figuring out which towns

(06:13):
we're going to do. I think this year we're going to do multiple.
I haven't decided quite yet. I know we're going to do Wadsworth.
We're probably going to do Lodi.
And then we'll just kind of go from there and play it by ear. but
yeah so putting together history and you know the routes that i want to take
and things like that talking to people and finding out who's going to let us

(06:35):
in and who doesn't really want to advertise their hauntings that kind of thing
because it's it's a real thing some people these days despite the fact that
it's coming so very mainstream some people are still.
Sketchy they don't want to be known for that and that's
cool i'm laughing because in one of the picture is
marty has his finger in the way oh i know it's right in the

(06:55):
way of the picture uh keep in mind we also have
a another investigation of madison hold
up and waiting for us before it gets too hot i
feel like it's already too hot but well
yeah we do have another madison investigation we're just gonna have to coordinate
that around when they're doing their open house ghost hunts so yeah that'll

(07:18):
be coming up here before too long before too long If we if we unfortunately
get too busy and we miss, you know, the next month or so,
then we'll have to set it back towards a little closer to fall before it gets
real, real cold. But either way, that's coming.
Yeah, I think those are pretty much all the announcements. Very,

(07:39):
very just just normal stuff.
You like those pictures, huh? Just the one in particular. The one with the chair
where it looks like it's in a dark space?
No. Because that was my favorite.
See, that to me could be a reflection off of that light bulb.
I think that's what it is because it's exactly shaped like the light bulb.
That's what I was looking for. But look at the one with the chair.

(08:01):
Okay, so this one. Well, I mean, we'll look at it after. This is the one that
I thought was really cool.
The one next to the chair? Yeah, because it's in a dark space behind the chair.
Yeah. So the light wouldn't have shown through a chair. But it's reflecting off.
The camera lens. Yeah. We'll discuss further in detail when we're not recording.
And yeah, that's a thing. We'll see. And also welcome to the little end of us going over evidence.

(08:26):
Yeah, it happens. All right. So yeah, there's all kinds of coolness going on.
Yeah. Marty, next time you take a picture, ma'am, get your finger out the way.
Mindful of the fingers. I understand he was, sorry, tired. I understand he was
very excited though. So anyway.
I would be too. Yeah. All right. So let's get into it.

(08:47):
Yeah. As we decided pre-podcast, Teresa, you're up first.
So I went with Poland Springs Resort.
It's actually really interesting because Poland Springs, spring water?
Same thing. Comes from here. Go figure. Oh, a natural thing.
Who'd have thunk it? Oh, this is dope. Gosh. Who'd have thunk it?

(09:10):
Anyway, so Poland Springs today is a huge, huge, beautiful multi-building resort
where you can go and just hang out and have fun. It is in, go figure, Poland, Maine.
Who'd have thunk it? They have golf. They have host house days.
They have five-star restaurants.

(09:32):
They have over, gosh, I don't even remember, a lot of guest rooms.
Their golf course is one that the PGA Tour goes to because it's so frigging fancy and awesome.
So I am actually just simply taking my story straight from the Poland Springs
Resort, Poland Springs Resort dot com, because they did it best.

(09:53):
They literally have all of the history in one place without me having to,
like, bounce back and forth through 80 websites like I usually do.
So, the story of Poland Springs began in the late 17th century when Jezeb Ricker
moved his family from Alfred, Maine to Bakerstown, which is present-day Poland, Maine.
Jabez, I love that name, had owned land adjacent to the Shaker community in

(10:18):
Alfred, and when they pressed him to acquire his land, he relented and made a land swap.
Shortly after the Rickers arrived in Bakerstown, some travelers knocked on the
door looking for a place to stay.
In 1794, the family began operating an inn on the property, and by 1797 opened
a brand new building, which they called Wentworth Ricker Inn.

(10:40):
Thus, the beginning of the tradition of operating an inn on the grounds that continues to this day.
In 1844, Hiram Ricker, after suffering from dyspepsia for many years,
went to the fields to oversee the men on the farm.
For several days, he drank only water from the springs on the edge of the property,

(11:00):
and after consuming the water for 10 days, he became cured of his illness.
While this is not the first time members of the Ricker family drank from the
the spring when they were ill, this was the first time that the water was perceived
as having medicinal properties.
In 1845, the Rickers began sharing water, and in 1859 made their first commercial sale of the water.

(11:26):
In marketing the resort as a country getaway with recreational activities and
having water with health benefits, the Rickers slowly grew their enterprise.
In 1876, the family opened the Poland Spring House, which shortly became a popular
attraction for the country's social and politically elite.

(11:46):
The hotel eventually comprised of 350 guest rooms, a barber shop,
dance and photography studios, a pool room, a music hall, dining facilities for up to 500 guests,
a fire sprinkler system, and elevators, serving as the crown jewel of the resort grounds.
Its design and amenities were used to develop several other Hiram,

(12:11):
Ricker & Sons-operated hotels, including the Samoset and the Mount Kenio House.
The resort also took an unprecedented step in 1894 when it purchased the main
state building from the state of Maine.
The building, constructed of granite, hardwood, and slate that came from Maine,

(12:31):
was originally constructed as a state entry for the Columbian Exposition or
Chicago World's Fair of 1893.
Designed by Lewiston native Charles Sumner Frost,
the building was purchased by the Rickers, disassembled, transported to Poland
Spring, reassembled, and dedicated for use as a library and art gallery for the resort guests.

(12:55):
It remains as one of the five buildings left of the almost 200 that comprised
the Grand and Historic Fairgrounds at that time, owned and operated by the Poland
Springs Preservation Society.
In 1895, the family opened a nine-hole golf course, one of the first in the

(13:16):
state, after commissioning Arthur Fenn as its designer.
Fenn was the most first American-born professional golfer and course designer.
He stayed on for many years as a golf pro at the resort, and by the early 20th
century, the resort desired a modernization of the course and contracted with

(13:36):
Donald Ross to redesign the course and expand it to 18 holes.
Ross is recognized as one of the most celebrated golf architects of all time
and designed, redesigned, or expanded 11 courses in the state of Maine,
the one at Poland Springs being the oldest.
In 1907, Hiram Ricker and Sons Company opened a new bottling plant and spring house on the property.

(14:01):
This was perhaps the most modern bottling facility of its time.
Installed with glass and silver piping, non-porous Carrara glass for easy cleaning,
and even showers for the workers to use prior to beginning their shift to ensure
the cleanliness of the water.
The company was able to churn out over 450 cases of water per shift and continued

(14:23):
their dominance in the water business.
In the 1930s, those years were not kind for anyone, including the Ricker family,
eventually losing control over their empire. The Resort and Water Company was
owned by several iterations of Business Consortium.
In 1962, Saul Feldman purchased the resort and water company and built a new

(14:45):
inn called the Main Inn on the Browns. He tried to attract a new clientele and
offered modern amenities.
He hosted the Route 66 TV filming crew with Joan Crawford.
Sonny Liston trained for the famous fight with Cassius Clay in Lewiston.
Jack Parr was a frequent guest and also brought Channel 8 with him,

(15:07):
which was broadcasting form from the Ricker Inn.
In 1966, Saul leased the Poland Springs Spring House and other buildings on
the grounds to the U.S. government for use by Job Corps programs.
When the program opened in 1966, Poland Springs was the site of the largest
women's training center in the country.

(15:29):
With several thousand individuals coming and going, the wear and tear took its
toll, and then the job course left the grounds in 1969.
The Maharishi of India leased it the following year, and then the Poland Springs
house was closed and not used as a hotel again.
During that time, he built onto the lodge to continue operating the golf course,

(15:54):
which in its original design, including a locker room, pro shop, snack bar,
regular bar for liquor, banquet facilities,
and 25 more hotel rooms. Gotta have a snack bar.
Facts. Ugh. Ugh.
So from there, so sorry, in 1971, Cindy's parents had moved three times in five years.

(16:22):
This is talking about the Robinsons, who would be the next owners.
From Michigan to Chicago to Tupelo, Mississippi, and then to Lewiston, Maine.
Her parents had also bought a cottage on Middle Range Pond and insisted that
Cindy get a job. So at 16 years old, she became a waitress at the inn at Poland Springs.

(16:43):
At that time, only the lodge and main inn were available for hotel guests.
Since U.S. Job Corps and Maharishi had destroyed the other buildings to the
point that they were uninhabitable, the famous Poland Spring Water Company now
had only one part-time employee.
Employee the golf course with few members was
in rough shape and the property was again for sale mel robbins came to poland

(17:09):
springs in 72 to tear down the hotel and build a new development but instead
he saw great potential in the historic property he leased the main inn with an option.
Buy for the property mel ran
the inn as it had always been run
in the past and lost most of his money that summer

(17:30):
but his dreams didn't die there he re-examined where all the money went and
threw out the hotel bible which was basically their standard of operations he
lowered the rates drastically asked people to carry their own luggage got rid
of telephones in every room and asked people to bring their own soap,
which was absolutely unheard of in 1973, but it saved Poland Springs from the wrecking ball.

(17:57):
Determined to save Poland Springs, Mel worked very hard.
His days were full, doing the advertising, buying the food from local grocery
stores, and around the clock, it seemed he was entertaining guests as a DJ,
playing bingo and trivia, and telling his amusing tales.
Guests, past employees, and neighbors began sharing their stories about The

(18:17):
Hill, which is what they ended up calling a resort.
Mel became even more enthralled, and in 1975, he wrote wrote The Poland Spring, an informal history.
Business was absolutely booming. He had fallen madly in love with Cindy,
who had come there from Lewiston to be the waitress. They got married.

(18:41):
Life was good. Life was good. And then tragedy struck.
The Poland Springs house burnt to the the ground on July 3rd.
And Mel, of course, had to rethink his dream.
In 1976, he took over the golf course and moved the old children's playhouse
to become the Pro Shop, restaurant locker rooms, and the site of the Poland Springs house.

(19:02):
The Poland Springs Preservation Society was founded in 76, and in 77,
Saul Feldman, the owner of the Poland Springs Resort, and Mel Robbins,
owner of the option on the building, gave the Preservation Society ownership
of the main state building and All Souls Chapel.
So apparently All Souls Chapel is part of it as well.

(19:27):
In 1978, Pierre, which eventually was bought out by Nestle Water,
bought the Poland Springs Water Company, built new bottling facilities,
and grew it from one part-time employee to over 900 employees in the state of Maine.
And in 2001, Nestle spent $3 million to restore the abandoned Poland Springs

(19:47):
Historic Bottling Plant and turn it into a museum.
Currently, the water company is owned by Blue Triton.
In 1997, Mel was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but his hospitable nature never
left him, and he greeted guests almost until the end of his life.
The last four years, he was cared for by Cindy and private nurses.

(20:09):
He passed in 2007 and is buried on the property.
Cindy will be buried right next to Mel.
She, however, is still living. Other additions and improvements to the property
since Mel's death include the driving range, mini golf, disc golf, playground,
Campbell Cottage, Ricker House, and all new hotel furniture,

(20:30):
additional fire protection of the Presidential Inn and garages,
improvements to the golf course, and lots and lots and lots and lots more.
Paranormal happenings in this hotel are insane and
numerous it goes all the
way back to the beginning where they people have seen Hiram Ricker in and around

(20:52):
where the main building was in and around where what is now the museum which
was originally the bottling plant for Poland Springs water he makes lots of
noise he kind of waves his hands around like maybe he's telling
people what they're supposed to be doing or where they're supposed to be.
And so many people have seen him, it's ridiculous. So we go down a little bit

(21:15):
further, and then there's Charles Sumner Frost,
who was one of the architects, is seen on the property all the frigging time,
usually wandering the golf course, and then just sort of vanishes into nothingness.
Then we go down to Donald Ross, who was the guy who redesigned the course,

(21:39):
expanding it to 18 holes.
He has been seen by the pond that is built on the property, on the golf course.
Apparently, he believed that it was like his crowning achievement because it
was so beautifully landscaped.
So he is seen overlooking the pond quite regularly.
Of course, the then owners,

(22:00):
Mel, who, you know, passed away from Alzheimer's in 2007,
he is seen in the main building of the property all the time,
up and down the stairs, up and down the hallways, all over the kitchen,
all over the room where they like, you know, play cards and different like bingo
games and things like that.
That he's seen waving to guests from the front steps, smiling,

(22:24):
you know, dressed in his normal polo shirt with the logo of the building on it.
Seems to be just as happy and jovial now as he ever was.
And even his wife, Cindy, has talked about seeing him there on many, many occasions.
Yeah, fun stuff. So there wasn't a whole heap of in-depth stuff regarding the

(22:46):
hauntings. Like, it doesn't seem like they've ever allowed any investigators in.
So all of the stuff that was reported was just reported by people who have worked
there or people who have stayed in the hotel.
Yeah. It seems kind of weird that they wouldn't let investigators come in because that brings,
Revenue. Agreed. Agreed. Realistically, maybe just nobody's asked.

(23:06):
No, it could be. It's very possible. Yeah. It seems to me like they were,
for a very long time, trying to keep up this sort of rich, posh sort of thing.
And then when Mel and Cindy took it over, they- Squashed.
Yeah. They pretty much dialed it back a little bit and made it a place where

(23:27):
even just normal people could go and hang out and have fun and have dinner.
And, you know, you didn't have to be an elite, wealthy billionaire to stay there anymore.
Good. Good for them. Let the common people have it. And I say common very loosely, but. Right.
The hotel also, and Cindy Robbins post-humanistly for her husband was actually

(23:47):
honored with an award from the Maine
Tourism Hall of Fame and the Lifetime Achievement for Hospitality Maine.
I didn't even know there was a Hall of Fame for that. Apparently so. So now we do. All right.
Is there a place we can visit? Cause that'd be hilarious if they didn't have
a place to visit, but they had a hall of fame for it.

(24:09):
This is the main hall of fame. I don't know. Tourism hall of fame.
Yeah. Let's find out. Maine tourism hall of fame.
Let's see. I'm going to bet. No, and I'm going to laugh.
Well, it's in Bangor, Maine. oh all right yeah damn all right well that's interesting.

(24:35):
Place visit well there's this and
that so right a big portion of the difference for me
is the availability where it could be a business decision right right i feel
like you would have the possibility to make a lot more money you know yeah say
you or i or yeah yeah a hundred dollars $500 a dinner is not cheap. No, no.

(25:02):
But if you could go to one of these places that was formerly elitist.
Right. You get the. You still pay the $500 a dinner or whatever the hell it is.
But you don't need that whole like year long membership to get there.
Right. So it's kind of like a clout thing almost. It's still a clout thing.

(25:22):
Yeah. But you make more money not catering to just the elite.
Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Well, yeah, because the Maharaji is not going to show up there every year.
Yeah, that's pretty crazy, actually. All right.
So, all right. So, that was it? Yeah. A fun little bit of history about Poland
Springs Water and a very fun hotel.

(25:42):
I got you. I got you. Actually, that's funny that you say that because that's
pretty much what I found when doing my research on Maine was there's a bunch
of haunted hotels, haunted lighthouses.
Is what you would expect from Maine because it is, for all intents and purposes,
kind of like a coastal city or state.
Being realistic, I expected to find more foresty stuff.

(26:05):
Same, so did I, and I didn't. So I was like, okay. Fine.
Right. So I went a little bit into the history of the actual history and lore of the place.
And I actually found an interesting one. It's the Curse of Jonathan Buck,
book, which immediately, no, no, that's in California, but no,

(26:25):
or Massachusetts. I'm sorry.
Yeah. Massachusetts, but no, which I immediately found this hilarious because
it stated the article with a foot, a witch and a founder.
I'm like, that sounds like something CS Lewis would write. So let me hear it.
So, the legend of Jonathan Book. Jonathan Book was born in Massachusetts in 1719.

(26:49):
He married a woman named Lydia, had nine children, six of whom lived to adulthood.
In 1762, John decided he would move his family to Maine after not being able
to get his shipbuilding business off the ground due to property issues.
He trapezed around the East Coast from Castine to Bangor until he finally decided
on the perfect spot. lot.

(27:09):
He built a sawmill, the plantation's first general store, and settled his family in nicely.
In 1776, at the start of the Revolutionary War, Buck was named colonel in Maine's 5th Militia.
Although Maine had a bigger army and more steam than the British,
he lost the battle in one of the most humiliating and terrible losses in U.S.

(27:30):
Naval history at the time.
They had that award until Pearl Harbor. That's how long that record stood.
So, one of the main issues leading to the loss was that the leaders under Buck
were too busy trying to one-up each other and couldn't stop arguing over who was in control.
Never seen that happen. In the article, they make a funny situation,
they make a funny little pun. It's like, why didn't you pull the three stooges

(27:52):
thing and knock their heads together?
The remaining Americans decided to bail, leaving the ships to burn in their wake.
Buck also fled with his wife and youngest daughter to Brewer to Brewer.
From there, Buck, at 56 years old and with a case of the gout,
walked over 200 miles back to Massachusetts.
With gout. Yeah. That's impressive.

(28:16):
To wait out the shitstorm that
was taking place in his town that would eventually be named after him.
He stayed there for four years until the war ended in 1783.
He then decided it was safe to come out of his hiding place and return to the
town he originally founded.
In March of 1795, Jonathan Buck
died and was buried with his family in the town was renamed Bucksport.

(28:39):
Buckstown, that's where Buckstown was the original name. In 1870 and in 1852,
a monument was erected in the same cemetery with a stellar view of Fort Knox.
Now here's where the story gets a little interesting. Because this is where
they start getting into lore and a whole bunch of stuff came out.
Bucksport is straight out of a ghostly storybook. Around every corner there
is a haunted location or a curse or a murder that once took place there.

(29:03):
If a place can be charming and oppressive at the same time, this would be it.
The cemetery is enclosed behind a wrought iron fence
and contains many of jonathan buck's relatives at one
point his most recent relatives were so fed up with certain stories
of the witch's curse tarnishing his good
name that they threatened to sue it seems as
though the town of bucksport saw something saw saw some

(29:25):
sort of money-making potential however since they have a
huge sign and plaque that is screaming tourist trap in front
of their monument depicting the supposed curse so they
explained that real quick now there's a
bunch of different stories of how this curse happened one of
it stems from the most common one being that at
this is the time as a judge stories more of justice of the peace of the judge

(29:47):
he sent someone accused of witchcraft to death by burning her as she met her
demise she showered over the flames throwing out some hocus pocus hellfire cursing
his tomb so now we have not a tomb but a monument with the witch's foot stained in front of it.
The foot has actually showed up over 50 years after it was erected.
The person writing the article makes a funny thing. It's like, talk about slow burn.

(30:09):
It's like points for that.
And then they, they post that they thought the curse was, but I'm not going
to read it because long and exhausting, but it pretty much says like,
I'm going to curse you forever, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Now you may be asking yourself why her feet? Because she said her foot will be on the grave. Why?

(30:30):
There's another version of the story, and it's just some people took some liberties with it.
The mystery woman was accused of witchcraft after having Buck's child and was
pregnant again with another of Buck's children.
This is what ultimately led to Buck's accusations of her practicing witchcraft.
He tied her to the foot door and set her aflame. The young boy took the smoldering

(30:54):
leg of his mother, used it as a club to cripple Buck, hence the foot on his grave. Holy shit.
Yeah. And that's actually pretty, pretty hilarious if you ask me.
Now, again, there's another one with the same thing, just they didn't take the
leg off the burning corpse and beaten to death with it.

(31:15):
There was another one saying that, again, Buck had impregnated this woman and
then wanted nothing to do with it because it was out of wedlock.
Then pretty much sent her away. She came back asking for financial help.
He accused her of witchcraft because let's, let's be honest,
that was easy to do to get someone off your ass those days. Um.

(31:36):
And when he did that, she, of course, they didn't really try anybody.
They're just like, oh, you're accused of being a witch. You're a witch. You're going to burn.
They did say that the young kid did take the leg of his mom to bury her so she
could actually get a proper burial to save her soul. That's really sad.

(31:57):
However, the foot on the monument is, like I said, it's been there for over 50 years.
They have scrubbed it off. They have switched monuments. They have done everything
they can to get rid of it, and a foot always repairs back.
My first thought was, well, all right, if they scrubbed it off and it's like
a fungus that's cracking, that's how it's growing.
Of course, it's going to grow back in the same shape. But if they change the

(32:19):
freaking monument and it's still there, it gives some credence.
So it's like, oh, okay.
So viewers listening, you decide. Curse, folklore, whatever, you decide with that.
But I thought it was funny as hell. And that's the reason why I want you to
go last, because this is one of the founders and you're doing the first kind

(32:40):
of made more sense that way to me. That's fair.
But yeah, no, I don't necessarily know if it's a curse.
I don't, I, I can't say yes or no to it, but I thought it was a fairly interesting
story about a founding member of one of the main cities there.
And I say, Maine is like the state main.

(33:00):
Yeah. I just thought it was a cool story. And like I said, it's not a haunted hotel or highway.
So, but Maine is close to Massachusetts. So I guess the whole witch thing was a thing back then.
I would say like all of the 13 colonies. They all had it. Yeah. Yeah.

(33:21):
Puritan ridden states. Yes. Really? Exactly. Oh, we didn't fornicate.
Whatever your witch. Your witch. You did that in my sleep.
No, the thing that led credence to me was, of course, the grave having a foot come back on it.
And there's pictures in there. You can look them up. It looks like a foot. It really does.
But what made it more of a story I want to talk about was the family tried to sue.

(33:45):
I don't understand how they sued. Who? I guess the city.
Because these stories coming out about their ancestor I
didn't know you could sue for folklore maybe a
little bit of defamation of character say there's a fine line with defamation
there like which ironically that
would have been like probably one of the first cases defamation to because

(34:06):
well I didn't say yeah I didn't say when they did it but yeah you're right
yeah because even though it's kind of a popular thing
to do nowadays right back then it wasn't yeah it
was like defamation man you're piece of shit that trying to
prove that shit was right it is impossible to
do so yeah i just thought it was kind of an interesting story with
an open open-ended result it's kind

(34:28):
of what you choose to believe on that side um as
the baba yaga enthusiast of the group poignant i
choose to like to believe in that kind of shit right
the irony that i find in trying to
like to believe and that kind of stuff is that all
the stories are the same right right it's always on the

(34:50):
burning cross where you know maybe cursing the
town yeah yeah those i mean i think
if somebody inappropriately named me a
witch and burnt me at the oh hell yeah i'd be yeah only
mine wouldn't be that articulate i'd probably be like you suck or.
Something so because i'd be in fire
so but yeah no i i

(35:13):
agree if if someone wrongly accused me of something and
then condemned me to death for it oh yeah I'm coming back with a vengeance on
you like there ain't no ifs ands or buts about that and it's funny because if
you believe in hauntings you don't even actually have to necessarily believe
in witchcraft to be like no no I'm coming back for your ass yeah yeah so yeah
that's my story I like it yeah.

(35:35):
A good one i do i guess it leaves me doesn't it
that does leave you all right baba yaga enthusiast
so taking what you guys
know about what my story necessarily is
about out of the equation i
will lead off by saying that unlike theresa like i did not have one quick shortcut

(35:56):
path to information here because a lot of the stories vary a little bit right
but i propose a question outside of what you know that I am doing my story on.
If I were to ask you the starting point of the spiritualist movement in the
U.S., what's your go-to?

(36:18):
Oh, God. The White House. I
would say the White House. Would you probably say the Fox sisters in 1848?
No. No.
That guy would. I would. That guy needs a muffler.
Well, to be fair, the conventional starting point is in 1848 with the seances

(36:39):
that the Fox sisters held in Hydesville and Rochester,
New York, which actually is what developed into the White House,
also inviting people along. But that apparently.
All right.
The the the wrappings and the knockings and the one for yes and two for no kind

(36:59):
of thing. So here's the thing.
The spiritualist movement, spiritualism, which concerns the efforts to contact
and communicate with spirits, as you know, became enormously popular in the 19th century. Right.
Shaping popular culture and formal history with seances even conducted at the White House.
That said, prior to the Foxgrove sisters, if you want to go by the definition

(37:26):
of spiritualism or the spiritualist movement, the original story started in Maine.
Okay. And it actually is, I use air quotes here, quoted as the first documented
haunting in the United States. Okay.

(37:48):
There were mass sightings of an apparition named Nellie Butler.
She was witnessed by, let's see here, what was it? Over a hundred people.
That's quite a bit. And I want to say somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 different locations.

(38:10):
One of these was even as far as... So for many writers, the specter calling
itself Nellie Butler was among one of the most convincing of the recorded apparitions.
Yet few other hauntings created such a storm of controversy,
sparking accusations of fraud, witchcraft, and demonism.

(38:31):
The primary setting for the specter that called itself Nellie Butler was the
cellar of the Blaisdell House in Sullivan,
but the ghost appeared in at least four other dwellings in the community and
could manifest itself outside in the day and in the middle of the night.
Increasingly large groups of people witnessed the spirit during the main period

(38:53):
of its manifestations in August of 1800.
The climax of spiritual encounters took place in a funeral march on the night
of August 13th to 14th in the year 1800.
At this time, the Nellie Butler apparition followed a procession of nearly 50
people through the village to the house of a vocal disbeliever, James Miller. Okay.

(39:18):
Now, had to be a Damn good day for him.
That said, I will read two quick summaries of the Nellie Butler haunting coming
from two different perspectives.
The first being in the winter of 1799 in the small coastal town of Sullivan
in Hancock County, Maine, began what is known as the first and most documented

(39:40):
haunting in the United States.
During this series of hauntings, numerous residents of the town claimed they
saw and heard the ghost of Nellie Butler, a young woman who died three years before.
This phenomenon was recorded by Reverend Abraham Cummings, a traveling preacher
who believed the apparition was sent from heaven.
Cummings collected 31 eyewitness testimonies from the town's residents,

(40:03):
which he included in a book called Immortality Proved by the Testimony of Sense,
and which considered the doctrine of specters and the existence of a particular specter.
God damn, what a title to a book. That's a mouthful.
The story begins in the Blaisdell house near the rocky shore of Taunton Bay.
It was in the cellar of that house where the ghost first appeared and most often

(40:27):
took shape and spoke, according to testimonies recorded by Cummings.
Claiming to be the spirit of Nellie Butler, the ghost sought to orchestrate
the marriage of Nellie Butler's former husband, 29-year-old George Butler,
to Lydia Blaisdell, who was 15 years old at the time. A little weird, but okay.

(40:47):
Testimonies by members of the Blaisdell and the Butler families,
as well as Nellie's family, the Hoopers, state that the spirit was relentless,
visiting multiple times, and answering personal questions to prove its identity.
On May 28th of 1800, Lydia and George were married on Butler Point.
The next day, the ghost appeared and prophesied that Lydia would bear one child and die soon after.

(41:12):
This prophecy, which came to fruition ten months later, echoed the sad fate
of Nellie Butler, who died of childbirth when she was 22 years old.
Some in the town saw the prophecy as a sinister curse because of this and the
meddling nature of the ghost.

(41:45):
So that is one account of the story.
Account of the story is it was August 9th in 1799 when Abner Blaisdell first
heard the knocking noises in his house in Maine.
On January 2nd of 1800, both Abner and his daughter heard a woman's voice coming from the cellar.

(42:06):
I'm the dead wife, the voice said, of Captain George Butler, born Nellie Hooper.
Nellie Butler thus became what many believed is America's first documented ghost.
David Hooper, Nellie's father, lived about five miles from the Blaisdell home, so Abner sent for him.
Mr. Hooper was skeptical, but was also curious. After walking five miles through

(42:28):
a raging snowstorm, Hooper joined Abner in the cellar.
Once again, Nellie spoke, and Hooper became a believer.
She gave such clear and irresistible tokens of her being the spirit of my own
daughter, as gave me no less satisfaction than admiration and delight, he wrote later.
Soon, after her father returned home, Nellie appeared visually for the first

(42:52):
time to Abner's son, Paul.
Terrified, he ran home, reporting that he was walking through the fields and
was chased by the apparition that floated behind him.
That night, Nellie scolded Paul for not speaking with her when he saw her.
By February of 1800, Nellie was becoming famous around the town and surrounding

(43:13):
towns. People crowded into the Blaisdell house to see and hear her.
A female witness described her appearance.
At first, the apparition was a mere mass of white.
Then it grew into a personal form, about as tall as myself, and the glow from
the apparition had a constant, tumultuous motion.

(43:34):
At last, the personal form became shapeless, expanded in every way,
then vanished in a moment, apparently frightening the public.
Frightened by the throng, she disappeared for four months, then returned in
May in front of about 20 witnesses in the Blaisdell cellar.
When asked by Abner why she chose the cellar for her appearances instead of

(43:55):
upstairs where more people could see her, Nellie said that she didn't want to
scare any more children.
Before the end of the year, more than 100 people had seen or heard the ghost
of Nellie Butler, and most had given sworn testimony to the local pastor, Reverend Cummings.
The reverend didn't believe in ghosts and didn't
think his flock should either and a foul temper coming

(44:16):
strode through the field to abner's house suddenly before
him was a woman surrounded by a bright light at her first at first her form
was no bigger than that of a toad as he watched nelly butler grew to a normal
height before his eyes he was convinced maybe nelly met her point and maybe

(44:36):
Maybe she was just tired and ready for rest,
but she was only seen once again after her visit with Cummings.
Captain George Butler, Nellie's husband, reported that she appeared to him one
night in his bedroom and gave him a tongue lashing for remarrying after promising
her on her deathbed that he would never marry another.
So the irony is here, as you can see, two different perspectives,

(45:00):
two different stories. One was like, hey, you try to talk to these families.
And the other one was like, this guy got a tongue lashing for doing something bad.
But either way, it's interesting, right?
Because I think that if you look at it from the initial perspective where most
of the stories came from the seller, you're like, all right, that's a hoax.

(45:20):
Somebody set something up here. But apparently there are many accounts where
she just apparated in a field outside in the middle of the day.
I have a theory behind that, but continue.
I mean, this is the part where I'm open for discussion. Well,
I told my story. Okay, I got you.
I've often wondered why we always do investigations at night.

(45:44):
I get it to a point, but every time we hear the story of something happening, it's during the day.
I think when you talk about like a residual haunting that most of the time it
would make more sense for me that a residual haunting would happen during the
day. Do you know what I mean?
No, that's what I said. It makes sense to me. I get it. People go about their
lives during the day. Right. They don't go around cleaning the house at night.

(46:07):
But even non-residual, even though I stayed a couple of weeks ago,
I don't believe in it anymore.
More but uh yeah i got
you what what
about the night brings them out is the veil thinner and they're able to get
together more energy or is it just our perception of it because the night is
scary to us i think that in my opinion manifest energy manifestation of energy

(46:32):
and And light is just more easily visible to us at night.
I would agree with that.
No, I had no way of answering that. From what we know of hauntings,
they are gatherings or manifestations of electromagnetic energy,
which in quantities do create literal light energy.

(46:55):
Staring at light energy, you know, you turn on a flashlight in the middle of
the day in a well-lit room. You're really not going to see it all that well.
But if you turn the lights off and then turn on the flashlight,
you're going to see it super bright. That doesn't mean it's not there.
No, it doesn't mean it's not there. We just haunt at night because it's easier for us to perceive.
Well, I know that, but what I'm getting at is we use equipment to detect that.

(47:21):
That's fair. Using an EVP, you know, voice recorder, you're going to get it
there without, that's not something that you actually see. That's fair.
So has anybody ever done a day investigation other than like parks and stuff like that?
Yeah, I have in fact run plenty of things during the day.
I've never really set up like cameras, photographs, video, things like that.

(47:42):
But I most definitely will do like trigger sessions or EVP work during the day.
I mean, this is what I'll say is, all right, let me touch on two things real quick here.
The first thing being like, say our infrared cameras that we have,
like our DVR setup, a ball of lead is even easier for that to pick up at night.

(48:04):
Obviously, yes. But that said, like, trust me, when I say there's plenty of
times where I've seen and heard things during the day.
And even the one quote unquote full body apparition that we got on film,
it was before the sun went down.
Yeah. It was 7 o'clock. It wasn't even really dusk. It was the time between times.
I don't even know that it was dusk, to be perfectly honest with you.

(48:26):
It was 7 o'clock on a summer night when it didn't get dark until like 9.
They said it was more the time between times. Like the sun had gone down,
but it was still perfectly light outside.
And see, that kind of doesn't really prove my point, but it kind of goes with
the argument a little bit.
For me, the manifestation of it would happen if there's a lot more people around
because there's a lot more energy to pull from.

(48:48):
Might be. So I did, like I said, I had no stake in let's do it in a day.
I wasn't going with that. I was just like, why have we always done it at night? It seems weird.
Like if it's mirroring, mirroring life, everybody's asleep at night.
So why, unless you're doing a bar, then of course they're going to be.
So might be, which leads us into another interesting topic, right?

(49:12):
Right when you said what you just said is if by chance spirits can pull from
our energy to manifest it in like human battery. Yeah.
Um, why is it that we go to a haunted place and we feel like we're going to
have better luck if it's really two or three of us there at a time versus.

(49:32):
Well, see again, that's all theater of the mind, if you will. Right.
It's for, for me, it's if we go with more people, ball,
I would feel that we have better luck with more people because we can cover more ground.
However, that's if we're at a big spot. If we go to a small space,
three people, more than enough.
That's how I worry. It's ground to cover.

(49:54):
For me, I would say probably two things on that note.
The thing that concerns me about more people in one place at one time is the
idea of like a mass hysteria effect.
Right. Like one person says they saw something and then all of a sudden.
Everybody else sees it you know the other

(50:15):
thing is i try to treat
spirits as people if you will
no i get you same and the reason that i like smaller groups of like two to three
people in one place at one time is because i don't want to say my fear but like
i don't want to overwhelm overstimulate them a person i get you i get you if

(50:38):
if i'm looking at them as a person yeah No, I get you.
And the main fact that you just mentioned seeing an orb of light and all that
kind of leads me into the theory that I had.
I was watching TV with my dad and he was watching this paranormal TV show.
And one of them had this group go out to the, the, it was something we've covered on a podcast.

(50:59):
It was, uh, the, the Manny hotel or Manny estate or something,
but they went to investigate this one place and it was three girls and one dude.
And one of the girls was sensitive. to things.
And they brought up an interesting aspect. She said she had the videotape and
she's got the camera pointed right at this girl and there's a vault behind her
with the door open and the light on.

(51:20):
In the video, you see the light go off, you see a dark shadow pass quickly over
it and then you hear the girl say, I just saw a man pass by the door.
As she explained it, said that how she saw it in her mind was she saw a man
there because she's sensitive to it and she can see more than the cameras do.
The cameras only pick up what they're able to pick up.

(51:41):
They don't have the thought process behind something. Right.
So the camera only picked up a shadow passing.
They had one of the ghost bros on there who I love those guys to death.
And he even said, he goes, I've been in a Honda hotel and saw a full-bodied
apparition of a soldier in full rigueur.
He had a battle helmet on and everything. He was sitting there saluting me.
He goes, but the camera only picked up a ball of light.

(52:02):
Right. He goes, because they're showing us in our mind. So my theory is maybe
the ghost spectrals, whatever label you want to put on them,
maybe they're moving too fast for our eyes to see.
So if we got a high speed camera, would it be able to pick them up?
I think we're both going to need that L4 money to be able to afford a high-speed camera. Yeah.

(52:26):
That was just a theory that I had. Like, if we had a high-speed,
because I've been noticing a lot of people using high-speed cameras.
I mean, they're ridiculous. They're like $1,000 cameras. Yeah.
But technology has finally gotten up to where we can be able to do more things
rather than just picture camera here, camera there.
And to be fair, so like that leads me into like my explanation as to why I take

(52:56):
issues with a lot of people saying they have gifts. Yeah. Don't get me wrong.
I watched the TV shows just like everybody else has.
Like, you know, there are the Cindy causes of the world. There are some legit people that.
But I feel like is, if as many people actually had gifts as said,

(53:20):
they had gifts, there would be a lot more evidence, whether it was 100% ball
of light. Yeah. 100% correct.
Yeah. And, you know, like I've watched, you know, the Cindy causes and Michelle's
and like, you know, they pick up on things and you still get EVPs and stuff like that.
I'm not saying it has to be a picture, but like I need some evidence with it.

(53:41):
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, other than that, you're just going off blind faith.
I'm the tech guy, all right? I want to see the evidence. Yeah,
yeah. No, that perfectly describes you, actually.
But no, for me, the people that sit there and tout themselves,
I've never seen someone that was legit tout themselves as, I have this gift, I have this gift.

(54:03):
Because whenever they tout themselves and we ask them about it,
they don't say anything. It's like, I just have a gift.
For those people you mentioned, they can actually prove it.
Right. Well, you at least got some evidence, be it an EVP, even something that
simple to back it up. Also, it'll suck.
Yes. No. And that, like I said, that was like to get proof, to get something

(54:27):
because I search for the truth in things.
Would a high speed camera, or even still like I brought up to Teresa,
a slow motion camera, be able to better pick them up because they move quicker
or slower than our mind, our eyes and our minds can perceive them moving.
Because we see it, but do we process it fast enough to actually,
because that's how vision works, you know, it goes in, figures itself out,

(54:50):
and then comes out. I mean, here's the idea, right?
And what I can say is I would love to do like even something as much as like a quick test.
Five minute session with someone who says they have a gift, someone who picks up on something.
And when I say a five minute session, I don't mean it in a negative light,

(55:12):
but I mean, if we can go through a recording, you know, over the shoulder,
somebody that has a gift or says, Hey, I see this where I see that.
And my curiosity is to go along with what you're saying with like the high speed
camera or the slow speed, this or that. Like, if I threw it into one of these

(55:34):
video programs and literally went frame by frame. Right.
Now, you have to understand, when I sit here and I download the information
from my DVR and sit back and watch an eight-hour-long clip, I'm not going frame by frame. No.
I'd think you're insane if you did. Guys, no. Like, sorry, it's just not going
to happen. Like, that would take me. Forever.

(55:57):
Yeah. It'd take me a year. Yeah.
Yeah. At best. Yeah.
But, like, no, that's why I say it'd be cool to be able to do that with a person
like that where, like, I could just do a five-minute clip and just see if anything shows up. All right.
I'm not even saying it has to. And maybe we don't get anything on our camera.
Maybe we don't get any ball of light or something moving.

(56:20):
Maybe it's just an EVP that went with that five-minute session.
Yeah, maybe. And that's still fine.
My curiosity is to go with your train of thought.
Like, would we get something if we went through a five minute clip frame by frame?
I have no idea if we would or not, but it's an interesting theory to try out
at least. The thing is. I would rather try out than wonder.
The thing for me is without somebody that would be or even claim to be gifted,

(56:46):
like I wouldn't even know what five minute clip to start with.
You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I guess you. Yeah, you do.
The cat ball. That's fair.
Uh, keep your, keep your eyes and ears peeled.
Something's brewing and it's not just my stomach, but yeah, no,

(57:09):
for listeners out there.
I know we say this almost every week, but yeah, if maybe we'll have to post
on X or Facebook or something, whenever, you know, let us know what you think of that.
Like, I, I'm literally curious on what you guys think. So if you think that
would be beneficial, if you've tried it and didn't work out, let us know.
Yeah, you have to understand this podcast started or even the idea of this podcast

(57:33):
started with a whole litany of port side conversations that we have every time.
Every time we're together. Yeah, it's all theories.
Correct. Which also pisses me off because I'm an Aries. I don't want to find out the answer.
Yeah. I don't know. I also, to be fair, just a short and sweet baby side note

(57:56):
is it would not be fair to mention Maine without mentioning that the king of
horror lives in Maine. Oh, yeah.
Actually, oh, that reminds me. Sorry, I know we're probably getting the thick-sewed
area right there. Not bad.
There was this one that I found that's actually pretty cool.
It was posted in 2015, so I'm pretty sure everybody knows about it now,

(58:16):
but I thought it was actually pretty cool.
Just let me find it. the article states a tomb, a colonel.
Different that's the one i actually read that's the one you read okay i didn't
save it but anyways they found this tomb up there and that that wasn't the one
i read but they actually found a tomb,
ah here it is world's first crypt hotel in maine i'll stay there fuck it i give

(58:42):
it a shot the article says here's one for the bucket list sound i'd hear it
to me a hotel in maine is lifting the shroud on a ghastly new attraction a crypt
room whose last occupant was a catholic priest East,
whose earthly remains last lay there more than a hundred years ago. Add.
The unground tomb is attached to a newly opened boutique hotel at the,

(59:03):
at the Agora, which was converted from the rectory of St. Patrick's church in Lewiston, Maine.
So yeah, they've actually made it a crypt into a hotel room and all that.
So I thought that was a pretty cool mention. I mean, do it. That's cool. Yeah.
So you can actually go there and stay. We like weird shit. Right.
Right, and that border, that is very weird. I'm not even going to say borderline. That's just weird.

(59:25):
So, yeah, that's all I got on Maine. I dig it. I dig it.
Maine has a lot of cryptids, by the way, that I noticed while I was peeking
through. I didn't see a lot. Yeah.
But I didn't see an in-depth enough story to go that route, which kind of depresses

(59:47):
me. I kind of wanted to go that route.
Right. I couldn't find a story in depth enough to like a 10 minute conversation.
Unfortunately, that's the problem with cryptids is the stories.
There's not a lot out there that can hold up for a 10, 15 minute conversation
on this. It's just like, hey, they saw this and then it wasn't there anymore.
One thing that I did find about Maine that I thought was really interesting

(01:00:08):
as well is that per capita, they have like one of the highest UFO sightings in the nation.
That's interesting to me. That's all. So Maine is interesting considering most
of those are in the desert.
Most of the states that have those are in the desert. Yeah, that's weird.
But again, I don't believe in UFOs.
I believe in UFOs. I just don't believe in aliens.

(01:00:30):
Oh, no. Yes, I should say correct that.
UFOs is unidentified flying objects. So anything that they don't know is flying there is a UFO.
And I do find. However, aliens don't exist. I'm sorry. I think you're wrong.
It's fine. You're allowed to be wrong.

(01:01:00):
Prove we're like nope nope nope that can't be there nope no this oh you mean
the one thing that sounds 120 more logical i don't actually think that it sounds
logical at all i don't think being from another planet okay hold on we're gonna
get into it welcome to the porch.

(01:01:21):
Infinite how no and i granted i give you that however my biggest concern and
not concern my My biggest problem with aliens is if they're so technologically advanced,
why be so afraid of a civilization that has barely discovered the wheel?
If they can travel through space and time in a blink of an eye,

(01:01:42):
an atomic bomb should not worry them.
And I know you're going to come out with something smart, and it's not going
to make a bit of sense because I don't believe in it.
So not every human is interested in pet hamsters.
I give you that, yes. Yes, but why are they coming here?
Exactly. That's the thing. If you are so technologically advanced that we're

(01:02:06):
able to traverse through space and time, and yes, I know the hamster.
I get what you're going with it.
But if you're that curious about it, why don't you let yourself know?
And I know like, oh, we'll destroy it.
No, I'm sorry. We can't. Like the day the earth stood still proved that wrong.
The original, not the newest one. No, and to be fair, like, I agree with you

(01:02:26):
on that aspect, for sure.
I just think that maybe we're just not fucking interesting enough.
Well, then why come here at all if it takes so much effort?
We're light years away from everything, so it takes effort to get here.
So why come here if we're not interesting enough? Well, I mean, effort.
We're assuming it would take effort because of how we travel. Okay, great.

(01:02:50):
Now, however, I do believe in third dimensional beings.
That, I think, is aliens in what we would consider aliens.
But little green men from Mars, not buying it. Oh, I don't know that I buy that so much.
But all I'm saying is, like, I have a hard time believing that we are the only

(01:03:11):
life that exists anywhere. where.
So, with all of that, what are we doing next week? We'll discuss after.
Next week? Roundtable.
Are we actually doing cryptids next week, or did we decide on something?
I couldn't remember. Yeah, we should do cryptids. That's my...
Oh, are we doing cryptids for the roundtable?
Maybe we'll get back into this alien discussion after we have it on the porch,

(01:03:32):
after we get off this podcast. I mean, I'm pretty sure when the listeners listen
to this, they're like, yeah, do that more.
They like to hear us argue. It's fine. Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
Next week roundtable i love it and for
now definitely reach out to us on facebook
at no lights paranormal no lights paranormal at gmail.com is
how you can get a hold of us we want to hear all of your stories and just just

(01:03:55):
answer all your questions and all that fun stuff uh you can also find us on
x at no lights para that's p-a-r-a yeah that's all all right like Like,
listen, share. We love you. Thank you.
When we get to YouTube. Maine, you lived up to it.
And in retrospect, from all of our stories, don't burn the witch.

(01:04:17):
Yeah. And don't fuck with the Baba Yaga. Facts. You take her leg and beat her to death with it.