Centering Disability Justice in Academic Labor Organizing: The Case of the UC Grad Worker Strike

In this episode we speak with Mary Jirmanus Saba, Dana Ernst, and Sarah Abusaa. Mary, Dana and Sarah are grad student workers and union organizers with United Auto Workers 2865. In their union, Mary, Dana and Sarah organize for disability justice and their work highlights the intersectional nature of labor struggles.

As listeners to this podcast might know, in fall 2022, graduate student workers in the University of California system went on strike. Our guests played a role in writing the language for two contract articles dealing with workplace conditions: an Access Needs article that would have reduced barriers to access for workers, and a Public Health and Safety Article. The strike won wage increases, and this quickly became the dominant story. Unfortunately, the Access Needs and Public Health and Safety articles were not included in the final contract. As we learn from our guests, the union leadership didn’t take these rank-and-file demands seriously, and then tried to coopt the disability justice lens.

We begin the interview by asking Mary, Dana and Sarah to discuss the ableist barriers graduate student workers face when attempting to get their access needs met. We then ask them to discuss how Covid-related health and safety activism aligned with disability justice organizing as the strike approached. From there we get into the strike, covering the joy of building power and the heartbreak of being silenced by union leadership.

Interviewee Bios:

Mary Jirmanus Saba is a geographer, filmmaker, mother and member of the Peoples CDC.

Sarah Abusaa is an ecologist, epidemiologist, organizer, and current grad student. 

Dana Ernst is an oral historian and multimodal anthropologist, member of the Justice Coalition, and current grad student.

Links discussed in the interview:

University of California Workers Center Disability Justice in Union Organizing by Mary Jirmanus Saba

UCLA Community Members Stage Sit-In To Demand Hybrid Learning Options

Draft Language of Access Needs Article

Disability Justice Articles FAQs

UC Justice Coalition Substack

UC Justice Coalition Linktree

 

 

 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to Office Hours.
We're your host,
David and Laura.
We've been on summer break,
but we're ready to get back rolling.
We've got some great new episodes coming and we hope you'll tune in and share the podcast with your friends and peers.
We're especially excited for this episode that you're about to hear.
We're going back to the UC strike,
biggest strike in academic history to talk with union organizers who worked on disability justice issues.

(00:24):
So let's go right to the episode.
Hello and welcome to Office hours.
A podcast about campus politics.
In the end times in this episode,
we'll be speaking with Mary Jeu Saba Dana Ernst and Sada Abu.

(00:48):
Mary Dana and Sada are grad student workers and union organizers with United Auto Workers 2865 in their union,
Mary Dana and Sada organize for disability justice.
And their work highlights the intersectional nature of labor struggles.
As listeners to this podcast might know in fall 2022 graduate student workers in the University of California system went on strike.

(01:12):
Our guests played a role in writing the language for two contract articles dealing with workplace conditions,
an access needs article that would have reduced barriers to access for workers and a public health and safety article,
the strike won wage increases and this quickly became the dominant story.
Unfortunately,
the access needs and public health and safety articles were not included in the final contract.

(01:35):
As we learned from our guests,
the union leadership didn't take these rank and file demands seriously and then tried to co-opt the disability justice lessons.
We begin the interview by asking Mary Dana and Sada to discuss the ablest barriers graduate student workers face when attempting to get their access needs met.
We then ask them to discuss how COVID related health and safety activism aligned with disability justice organizing.

(01:59):
As the strike approached from there,
we get into the strike covering the joy of building power and the heartbreak of being silenced by union leadership.
Hi,
everyone.
Welcome to office hours.
What I would like to do to start is just have each of you identify yourself and the group or groups that you've been organizing with in the recent struggles in the UC system.

(02:28):
Let's start off with Mary and then after that,
we'll do Dana and Sarah.
Hi.
Uh great to be with you guys today.
My name is Mary Germano Seva.
I am a phd candidate in geography at UC Berkeley and a practicing artist and I in the context of the strike.

(02:51):
Oh,
and a member of UAW 28 65 and the context of the strike was organizing with what is now called the Justice Coalition and in the context of the strike didn't really have a name.
Hi.
Um,
thank you for having me.
I'm Dana.
Er,
I'm a phd student in anthropology.
Um,

(03:11):
working on academic ableism and ableism in the medical system.
My involvement um,
has been with the disabled students Union,
um,
which started to organize for hybrid access in 2021 at UCL A along with um the Mother Orgs,
which are a coalition of um of groups that basically are focused on retention and empowerment within the context of the strike.

(03:41):
I also was part of what became the Justice Coalition.
I'm a member of 28 65.
Um and also have been participating in faculty grad student uh collaboration recently in terms of um civil rights and disability rights um with within the workplace.

(04:06):
Hi.
Um My name is Sara Abuza.
I'm a phd student in epidemiology at UC Davis um through the recent um contract negotiations and,
and the strike.
Um just like Dana Dana and Mary have been working with what's now the Justice Coalition uh worked on developing the access needs articles and was also an alternate for the bargaining team during those negotiations.

(04:31):
I'm a part of UAW 28 65.
Um And during the strike also worked with um at,
at the Davis picket line and usually a group and our um our strike kitchen as well.
Thank you all for introducing yourselves.
Um I thought that we could start with just talking a little bit helping the listeners understand what it's like for grad workers or others.

(04:57):
Um when they are trying to make sure that their workplace and learning environment meets their needs,
when they're kind of going through the process of inter inter interacting with the university in order to have access needs met.
Um And one thing that I was definitely hoping you could touch on was this issue of needing to provide medical documentation um which our listeners might not really be familiar with and just thinking about how that creates a burden for folks needing access.

(05:27):
Yeah,
I was gonna say um maybe I can,
I can start kind of just generally talking about that process and then um maybe Dana,
if you want to say a bit about medical documentation as as well,
um That could be a good um Yeah,
a good way to do this one.
I see.
Nodding.
Cool.
Yeah.
So there are a few different um a few different ways that the process kind of sets up.

(05:50):
Yeah,
like these systemic barriers for,
for graduate student workers.
Um And so part of this is that you do have to go through um typically a couple of different offices.
Um We had kind of talked a bit about how they're so basically,
there's a specific office uh for disability services,
for employment.
Um And then there's also a separate one for students.

(06:13):
So you might go through or have gone through the process with the student office,
but if you haven't done it with the employee office,
that's,
that's separate.
Um,
and as far as I'm aware,
you still,
you still have to do both of those.
And then,
you know,
these are offices that typically are overburdened to begin with.
There aren't a lot of employees um for these really large campuses,

(06:36):
um,
at other campuses,
at least.
Um I'm not,
I'm not sure quite of the ratio,
but at Davis,
it's something like um one to like one employee for every eight or 9000 workers.
So you already do have like this initial sort of,
yeah,
the system that's clearly like overburdened uh doesn't have the employees or the resources that it needs.

(06:58):
And so there's a lot of time waiting that's built into it.
Um And typically,
you know,
this is time that you don't,
don't necessarily have um or,
you know,
don't uh don't wanna be taking.
Uh So once you go through these offices,
you also have to get approved through what's called the interactive process that again,
something that takes time,
something that requires medical documentation which Dana is gonna touch on in a bit.

(07:19):
Um And then ultimately,
not all supervisors will even honor the outcome,
even if it's something that is,
that is what uh that's even if it's an outcome that's good,
right?
Even if it's something that you think is gonna be supportive and you know,
we help you.
Um And so that would also take time to address if you're not um getting,
getting your needs met,
especially if you're already being bounced between offices.
If you have to update documentation and also for most disabilities,

(07:44):
you do have to redo and like update this process.
It's not like a one and done,
you know,
I did this in fall of 2020.
And so now I'm fine for the rest of my time at the university.
You have to go through and update it.
Um And so you have to constantly come back.
Um And,
you know,
obviously it's nice if you have it set up and then you come back if your needs change,
for example.

(08:04):
Um But you have to constantly like prove that your needs are legitimate and,
and ongoing on,
on a quarterly,
so on an annual basis.
Um And so that creates yes,
that creates a lot of barriers at the time.
Sync.
You know,
how long do you have to wait for a medical appointment?
How long until you can get a meeting,
set up with the appropriate people,
if you're dealing with a supervisor who's not willing to take your access needs into account or take them seriously,

(08:27):
that creates an additional burden.
Um And,
you know,
the whole thing is also very stressful,
right?
Um So those are just some of some of the ways,
but I'll,
yeah,
I'll pass to Dana to touch on medical documentation.
Yeah.
So I mean,
just to situate this conversation,
I wanna just let people know that the context of the office,

(08:48):
at least at UCL A where people are directed is under the umbrella of insurance and risk management and it's called employee disability management services.
So immediately,
um folks are dehumanized and they're viewed as a liability and that in itself is a problem.

(09:08):
Um in terms of documentation,
they also require a specific format of documentation.
Even if workers have had previous letters from physicians,
things that should serve.
In the meantime,
I have heard multiple accounts of and known students who have had to redo these forms that are quite detailed and require a good deal of time from a medical professional.

(09:41):
Whether somebody can afford to even go through the process of a diagnosis,
depending on what their condition is,
whether they knew that this was something they could do and had time to plan for it or not,
if they didn't.
Well,
tough luck for them and if a a physician is available,
but they have to pay out of pocket,

(10:02):
but they can't afford it.
What are they gonna do?
So this is an issue that affects bi folks even more because people need money in order to get what they like the documentation that they need to even be considered for these discussions.
And so basically,
once they've like received that documentation,

(10:26):
the university can demand more documentation if they don't feel that it's sufficient.
And the discussions are held up until that is given in terms of the way that it's done.
It's often in a format where things are quantified.
So dynamic and chronic disabilities or things that interact are not taken into consideration.

(10:49):
Um So people end up saying,
you know,
I guess I can do this amount or I guess this happens every X amount of time and then that ends up being concertized and used against them in discussions as you know.
Oh,
well,
you said you can only do this or that's,
that's your max.

(11:10):
Yeah,
I just wanted to um add to like,
you know,
speaking to,
to,
to Dana's point about like the specifics of the documentation,
right?
Is that sometimes what um what they request doesn't exist.
Um So,
you know,
it kind of touches on this like trying to quantify and concretize everything,
you know,
um these aren't um like the,

(11:32):
the people that you're meeting with this process are not necessarily typically aren't trained or aware,
right?
Like they don't have,
I mean medical training.
Sure.
But then that,
you know,
opens up a hole about um how people are even how disabled people are even treated at the doctor,
which is that of course affected by however many other,
right?

(11:52):
Like marginalized identities,
you may or may not en encompass.
Um But so there's that there's also doctors don't necessarily understand your work environment.
So asking a doctor to write a note that says,
like this person can only,
I don't know,
um run this many plates or teach this many sections like that.
There isn't always like a direct translation that way.

(12:13):
Um And you know,
ultimately you are the person who knows your needs and your body the best,
but you're not taken seriously as the authority on,
on your needs and on your disability.
Um And yeah,
just to,
to add and Mary,
this might overlap with what you were planning to say,
but you know,
going to the doctor is also like,

(12:35):
yes,
it's time and it's money.
Um But that can also be something that is,
you know,
traumatic for a lot of people or not accessible because when you see a doctor,
you're still seeing a person.
And so if you see somebody who,
for example,
is,
you know,
racist ableist,
sexist,
et cetera,
like there is a very real,
you know,
history and current practices of people not being taken seriously,

(12:56):
especially when it comes to more um you know,
kind of like what are called invisible disabilities,
things related to pain.
Women are taken less seriously.
People of color,
um especially black patients are taken less seriously.
And so if you have to provide proof from a doctor who may or may not even write,
like believe you or take you seriously,

(13:17):
um Then that just adds another,
right,
another barrier,
another step uh to proving to the university that yes,
I do have these needs and I need them met and they are real and legitimate because you're not seen as the um yeah,
as the person who's like the ultimate authority on your own,
on your own body or on your own health.
I just think that was so beautifully articulated.

(13:38):
The one thing I wanted to add is just that our analysis of this is part of a sort of broader analysis of or a broader critique of the sorry,
a broader critique of the idea of accommodations as something that is a burden on the institution,
something that the institution has to do.

(14:00):
This is part of a broader and kind of longstanding critique of the idea of accommodations as something which is constructed as a kind of burden on the institution rather than thinking about access needs as something that the institution.
And I don't only mean the University of California and all its 10 branches.
But the institution in general,
like all the institutions that um function in regards to the AD A and uh and 504 that,

(14:29):
that the idea of access needs sort of is essentially a demand that says no institutions should plan around the incorporate the active incorporation of people with different kinds of access needs,
different kinds of disabilities,
different kinds of backgrounds,
whether those are sort of recognized medically or not,
uh in order to have an inclusive and rich society and educational system uh rather than kind of creating this context of our artificial scarcity where there's one employee to deal with however many possible students.

(15:05):
And that person is already overburdened and underresourced and sort of just by like in a structural way,
cannot meet people's needs in a kind of timely fashion and that there's just none of it makes any sense is really the real,
is the really bottom line reality except for making,
creating additional boundaries for people to be able to access employment and,

(15:27):
and education smoothly.
Dana,
did you wanna add something on to that?
Yeah,
I think one of the problems with the way that medical documentation is being um and treated by these offices is that they work off of um this idea of what are your functional limitations?

(15:47):
And when asked,
what does that mean for T A for pedagogy for academic,
you know,
labor,
they provide an example like,
well,
you have to be able to lift £15.
Um There is no thinking um there is no effort to incorporate disabled and chronically ill folks into academia into employment.

(16:16):
And the problem with these kinds of settings is that one of the things that the centralized funding measure that didn't end up happening with the with the demands is that you're not only viewed as a burden,
you're viewed as a burden on your particular department and your department may be strapped for money and may make decisions based on that and they may view you as a certain cost.

(16:44):
The other problem is because there's no imagination or there's been no sort of real inquiry into how can we accommodate our disabled workers?
And if we want what's best for students,
wouldn't we want to think about that?
Wouldn't we wanna work on that?
Um,

(17:04):
the problem is,
is that oftentimes it's unclear what to even ask for because what isn't offered is a list of what's being granted.
In fact,
that's hidden,
that's secret knowledge and you have to work very hard in order to find out what can even be asked for.
And like what Mary said with this,

(17:25):
like artificial scarcity during the pandemic,
which we're still in.
Um I heard many colleagues telling me like,
well,
they told me we can only have three out of 12 sections remote with no justification and basically causing people to fight over those resources.

(17:48):
I'm glad that you,
you brought up that,
that like kind of typical kind of budgeting that's happening in a lot of neoliberalism universities where like rather than looking the budget in total and kind of budgeting our values.
Each department,
each program is,
is starting to do this like hyper,
you know,
corporate style budgeting and then how that serves,

(18:10):
you know,
leads into more ableism in the way that um the institutions are working.
That Dana also was a good segue because we wanted to ask about COVID and the PA the U CS pandemic response because as we,
as we started to discuss the strike,
we're interested in how different demands were being um put forward.

(18:32):
And one of those being a health and safety article.
So I wanted to ask you all about how the UC system um protected or didn't protect grad workers during COVID.
And what was the pandemic response like?
And,
and what did organizers uh what did you all find lacking in uh this approach?
And,
and what role did that play as the organizing for the strike came about,

(18:56):
Mary?
Do you want to take this one or start us off?
I can,
I guess I was,
I was actually trying to defer to someone else to start if they wanted to.
But OK,
I'm happy to.
So the context.
So of course,
the University of California has 10 branches.
The response to the way that they and,

(19:17):
and organizing around health and safety in during the,
since the beginning of the pandemic started at all of the different branches.
We weren't necessarily in touch with each other.
So I can say that uh and,
and I,
and I know that Sara will speak to,
to what happened at UC Davis,
but just as a little bit of background,
essentially,

(19:37):
what happened is that after the sort of mass vaccination campaign that followed Biden coming into presidency,
what we really observed was that the U CS uh were really like at the front line of towing this line that it was no longer important to or that it was no longer possible to protect everybody from infection.

(20:06):
So they were actually like really in their language.
I remember receiving an email saying we can't,
sorry.
So when the vast vaccination campaign came back,
we were asked to go back to teach in person without any kind of real clarity or any sufficient protections,

(20:28):
right?
So,
whereas places like Harvard were having testing was required.
PC R testing was required twice a week.
Masks were required in classrooms.
Harvard used its massive endowment to upgrade ventilation in all of its indoor spaces and also provided additional HEPA purifiers to any to actually all all offices in all spaces.

(20:51):
The U CS said no,
we can't upgrade ventilation and they even said in a communication,
actual misinformation,
they said things like HEPA filters,
we could put HEPA filters in the classrooms,
but actually there's a chance that that increases transmission,
which is just a like it's just A I unders I actually now have come to under it because I've become a sort of studied expert in a lot of these things even though that's not my training.

(21:20):
Um like it's just a,
it's a distortion of like a particular uh physics concept and,
and it's just not true and it was basically like discourse to make people II I think who were confused and or who make people who were tired,
confused about what the science really was and wasn't.

(21:41):
And so,
you know what we said,
what we ended up saying,
of course,
in our arguments around the article on this public health and safety article that we wrote was that the UC was trying to set up past precedents for putting us back to work or rushing us back to work,
work in unsafe conditions.
And,
and so,

(22:01):
right.
And so,
you know,
we came back,
masks were required.
And then there was a lot of opposition to that on different campuses at UC Berkeley.
I can say there was within the union,
different people were trying to organizing around uh access to testing a sort of more better ventilation,
clear communication around isolation protocols at UC Davis,

(22:27):
which I know Sara will talk about more.
There was a grievance filed around remote,
around remote access and,
you know,
just to sort of follow up sorry on my dinging.
Um um just to follow up the when in,
in spring 2022 again,
after that sort of mass vaccination campaign,

(22:49):
we got,
we got messages that said,
sorry,
why is everything is dingy even though even though all my notifications are off.
Why?
Um Sorry guys.
So,
right.
So in spring 2022 after the mass vaccination campaign,
we got communications from the university saying we can't any longer prevent transmission.
It's not possible,
it's just too transmission,

(23:09):
it's just too transmissible,
which is,
you know,
again,
just actually distortion of the science and our goal is to protect the most vulnerable people.
And of course,
they didn't do that because at that,
at that time,
you know,
when they were putting out that kind of communication,
we had a mask mandate.
This was March 2022 they lifted the mask mandate and they replaced it with language on all of the websites across the U CS that said instructors cannot request their students to mask,

(23:41):
which is actually as we discovered as we sort of deduced months and months later,
a blanket violation of the ad A because of course,
people had had and have been getting universal masking as an accommodation.
But of course,
because you know,
for a variety of reasons,
structural ableism,
people being unaware of our rights,

(24:03):
um people who are disabled or have high risk,
you know,
conditions making them high risk for for severe COVID,
not identifying as disabled,
not being aware of the ad a like all of these things and and also just exhaustion and confusion led to people not challenging that blanket ban on,
on,
on on health and safety,

(24:24):
right?
And so,
and so,
you know,
what this ends up doing is creating this really powerful visual landscape of normalization.
Uh sort of the normalization of not masking the normalization of no protections.
Because of course,
if they had allowed instructors to continue requiring masks,
I would suspect that a majority of instructors would have continued requiring masks in their classrooms,

(24:49):
especially people who were sort of older.
I mean,
I just remember having this conversation with some of my professors who were so aghast at that moment.
But then as it,
as they didn't,
people couldn't require masks and then as you kind of all probably know,
like the less masks you see,
you know,
in,
apart from all those sort of massive bullying from the mainstream media and,

(25:09):
and uh the CDC against masking or,
or towards people who are masking,
what it does.
It is,
it creates this sort of visual landscape of like masks aren't necessary.
So the less people that are masking,
the less people think that they should mask and less and less and less and less people are masking.
Um But I just wanted to before I pass to someone else highlight the really important fact that when this happened when they lifted the mask mandate and replaced it with a ban on masking.

(25:38):
There was really intense opposition to it,
particularly at UC Berkeley.
There was a massive town hall that,
that was called,
you know,
100 people showed up.
People were really activated.
We were,
we were,
there was energy to call for a strike on in person instruction.
So we were gonna say we'll,
we'll teach remote unless you bring back masks.

(25:59):
There was a faculty letter and we were coordinating with the faculty and then the union staff,
the UAW basically maneuvered to isolate the main person who was the lead organizer on that and kind of undermine their work.
And,
and they,
they did this by saying,
oh,
that's great.
You know,
oh,
there's a lot of energy around health and safety around COVID super.

(26:21):
Let's bring it into the bigger union meeting.
And then,
and,
you know,
this person agreed,
um because originally we had been having sort of smaller meetings.
So the person agreed and then they said,
ok,
let's put it on the,
on the big end of sort of the big membership meeting on the,
on the OC meeting.
And then they didn't put it on the agenda.
And then that person and the kind of couple of people who were organizing around this were left to start saying,

(26:44):
you know,
well,
why isn't it on the agenda?
We want to put it back on the agenda and then they're fighting the union rather than fighting the university and,
and,
you know,
the,
and then of course,
the,
the rest is,
I guess history,
the,
the,
the sort of semester ends and,
and with it,
the kind of momentum of doing or not doing certain certain things happen.
So I'll pass it to Sarah.

(27:06):
Yeah,
and thank you so much Mary for going into,
to detail and you touched on a lot of different points and just described them so,
so beautifully.
Um But yeah,
so I'm trying to think of where like what is a good,
I guess chronologically makes,
makes sense as well.
But I'm thinking about,
you know,
also this time period of like spring,
um,
2022 because,

(27:27):
um,
in,
in Davis,
we actually had a really nice,
uh,
set up for COVID testing.
We had,
um,
you know,
through the campus and also through the town as well.
Um,
basically multiple testing centers.
Uh you could set up appointments um,
online.
There were,
you know,
QR codes to check in and then the actual like process to get tested was like so well done.

(27:49):
It was like very automated,
very organized.
It was kind of like um yeah,
like you would go to,
you know,
a station and like,
you know,
scan your code.
Here's your tube to spit in.
Uh here's where you drop off the tube.
Like it was very bam,
bam,
bam,
um very,
very efficient.
And we had a couple of these testing centers through town,
everything was,
you know,
free.
Um And the requirements were,

(28:11):
if you were vaccinated,
you had to take a test every 14 days in order to come onto campus if you weren't,
it was every four days.
So this was in place for a while.
Um And then we get to spring 2022.
Um I believe,
yeah,
like May or June uh was when um then there were these like,

(28:31):
you know,
communications saying like,
OK,
you know,
the testing program is gonna be ending soon and we had this whole initiative.
It was called um healthy Davis together.
And so there was the testing through the university as part of healthy Davis together.
Um And so these,
you know,
like just a heads up,
this is gonna be ending in a few weeks or several weeks.
Um And um so at this point,

(28:52):
you know,
there's the expectation,
right that OK,
the testing is gonna end,
we're gonna be coming back to campus fully.
Um Of course,
there are people who are coming into campus anyway to work during this time.
Uh,
there are people who were also working remotely depending on what,
um,
what their,
what their jobs were.
Um,
the teaching was happening remotely.
And,

(29:12):
um,
so at this point,
you know,
it's kind of this,
um,
really encouraging the shift of like,
ok,
we're going back to normal now,
right?
We're going to what it was like before the,
before the pandemic.
Um,
and,
you know,
there was similar,
similar concern,
um,
at,
at Davis as well and,
you know,
when the language started appearing in emails and also on,

(29:34):
you know,
the various websites saying you cannot ask your students to mask that was part of it.
And then another part of it was if you wanted to teach remotely,
you had to,
uh,
submit a request to like a special committee who would then decide whether or not you could teach remotely.
It was not up to the discretion of the instructor anymore.
Um,
and so it wasn't just,

(29:56):
you know,
we coming back in person,
but it was also specifically putting these barriers around,
right?
Like if you're gonna teach remotely,
uh you can't just make that decision and set it up.
Never mind the fact that even before the pandemic,
there are plenty of professors who were recording their lectures,
um you know,
presenting the material asy asynchronously anyway.
Uh because these are,
you know,

(30:16):
methods.
Um and um what's the word I'm looking for like modalities,
I guess that don't need like,
it's not like we have to be in a pandemic or some sort of other like emergency situation in order to use them,
right?
They existed before.
Um they're still useful regardless of whether or not there's an infectious pandemic happening.

(30:40):
Um So it was also just,
yeah,
putting up barriers towards using these things in the first place and making it um making it more difficult.
Um So during this transition as well,
so you had like these difficulties for instructors,
for TAS.
Um And then also students coming back to campus and of course,
for graduate students,
we're lovely and,

(31:01):
and special and we're treated like students or employees depending on what's more convenient.
Um You know,
we're not quite one or not quite the other.
Um But so on the student side of things as well,
you know,
we had students who um were having trouble,
you know,
transitioning back back in.
Um because of,
you know,
and I mean,
there are lots of reasons,
right?
Like maybe you got COVID and maybe you got developed into long COVID.

(31:25):
Uh maybe online access was also just something that was better for you.
Uh in general,
maybe you live with somebody who's high risk,
maybe you have kids,
like there's so many different reasons,
right?
Why having the um having online access available,
right?
Just available because I also saw a lot of people saying like,
oh,
if you want masks because you're trying to force all of us to like stay in our houses again and you know,

(31:47):
we all hated being in quarantine.
So why would you make everybody do that?
Uh which is like not,
which is like a mischaracterization,
right?
It's just,
you know,
having the option of being able to um yeah,
basically,
you know,
conduct certain things,
things online.
Um And so having those barriers put in place also meant that there were students getting uh getting pushed out.

(32:08):
Um I had heard from folks um on,
on our campus and I'm sure this was happening in other campuses as well.
Um About increases in uh in,
in leave.
There's a leave program,
it's called Planned Educational um leave.
And a lot of people were told like,
oh,
well,
if you,
you know,
if you're not gonna be able to transition back then why don't you just go on leave?
Um So being,

(32:28):
you know,
in essence,
pushed,
pushed out of that space um instead of getting support in order to be able to,
you know,
uh attend their classes,
do their work,
whatever it,
whatever it was because we do want,
right,
like we want to learn,
we want to work.
Um And there's also this characterization of like,
oh,
well,
people just don't want,
you know,
then,
you know,
not,

(32:49):
not necessarily specific to COVID,
but the sort of broader narrative of like,
people don't want to work,
people wanna work,
people want to learn,
that's why there's so much pushback and why people are trying so hard to get back into it and saying like,
well,
actually,
I need to be able to ask people around me to mask or I need to be able to um you know,
do my office hours or my lecture online,
that kind of thing.
Um So that was,

(33:13):
those were like,
you know,
the,
the other conversations that were happening here.
Um And I think Dana,
you had your hand up at,
at one point.
Did you wanna add anything?
Yeah,
I just wanted to add that.
What was interesting at UCL A especially and a really amazing group of undergrads with their hybrid act that now protests with the DS U and the Mother Orgs with the 16 day sit in,

(33:38):
in Murphy Hall.
Um Well,
two things.
Number one activism kind of became what Mary said in her article in L A progressive,
like,
how can we symbolically and materially disrupt differently?
Um So,
like we did start to think,
how can we protest in a hybrid way?

(34:01):
How can we include those who aren't able to take the risk to go and occupy Murphy Hall in our protest?
Um And what happened was that there was this argument that was brought up that undergrads were extremely savvy in fighting against,

(34:22):
which is that it's an academic freedom violation.
Um We can't tell the professor how to teach their course and if they want to teach it this way,
it will fundamentally alter the course itself.
And so that is something we will not do,

(34:43):
don't force us,
we can't do it.
So they are at the end of the sit in,
agreed on sending a message to everyone in the faculty strongly encouraging quote unquote um people to mask but not requiring anything and not providing resources.

(35:05):
Um And so in that same way,
they're putting it back on the individual and especially the individual student who is the most vulnerable.
I will say it shouldn't be a surprise that during the sit in many of the offices in Murphy Hall with some of the highest paid administrators,

(35:28):
they were not in there and they continued not to be on campus and not to be in person throughout that entire year.
And so it really kind of shows who's being put on the line as disposable.
It's,
it's so interesting.
It,
it,
it takes me back to that time in the pandemic when our,
my college was doing something and it wasn't necessarily that great,

(35:52):
but looking at where we are now where we're not even um acknowledging that we're still in a pandemic.
Um It's interesting to think about that kind of gradual or not so gradual slide.
Um I wanted to move now towards talking about the strike and basically how you all brought these issues into the strike.

(36:13):
Um It seems like there are a couple of key strategies that you used.
So,
um I would love if,
if you could just share basically um what,
what your goals were during the strike.
Um and the recent contract negotiations that were going on,
what was the outcome?
And basically,
you know,
just your general thoughts on,

(36:34):
on what seems to be,
you know,
the the failure of the union leadership to prioritize disability justice in the strike.
Um Yeah,
so I can,
I can start us off on this one before the,
the strike,
right?
The strike came after um several months of negotiations happening between um the various units and I'll just very quickly.

(36:57):
Um So I'm not just throwing out like a bunch of acronyms and numbers with no context.
Um So UAW United Auto Workers,
that's the international that are,
that the UC academic workers um are represented by uh 28 65 is the local that represents um academic student employees which are like tas associate instructors.
We recently merged to also include student researchers.

(37:19):
But at the time of the strike,
at the time of negotiation,
uh they were a separate unit called Sru.
And then 58 10 is a local that represents postdocs,
academic researchers,
um research staff.
So all of those units,
um four of us were on strike.
At the same time,
we were negotiating our contract at the same time.
Part of,
you know,
the momentum here was like,
oh all of us are negotiating at the same time,

(37:39):
this represents a huge,
uh with something like 48,000 workers total um across the UC.
So we have this huge body um of,
of workers who are coming together.
And this is a really big opportunity in order to,
to like really shape,
you know,
changes to,
to the contract and,
and improve on what's,
what's maybe not as good as it could be,
right?
Um And so before the strike even even happened,

(38:02):
right,
there was a lot of work that went into,
um you know,
going through the articles uh proposing changes to the language,
um you know,
drafting all these different versions,
going to meetings with the UC bargaining team.
Um And then having,
you know,
those back and forth negotiations,
trying to reconcile,
you know,
the things that they're proposing versus the things that we're proposing.
It's a whole long,

(38:23):
you know,
arduous,
very intense,
intense process.
And so for the,
the state of the contract before was we had an article called reasonable accommodations and the work around that was by a group of several people.
And,
you know,
now we sort of have this cross UC group called the Justice Coalition.
Um,
and Mary,
you know,
alluded to this before that there have been lots of different types of organizing,

(38:45):
you know,
lots of different groups,
but we maybe just weren't in touch with each other.
And,
um,
at one point,
we had a group of folks that were,
you know,
multiple campuses.
Uh We had um students who had been working on this for a long time.
We had representatives from the bargaining team who are also graduate students going through the reasonable accommodations article.
And the major changes were removing a clause that said that the university may ask for medical documentation,

(39:08):
um adding a clause for centralized funding.
So that way,
yeah,
the UC basically have the funds that can go towards meeting access needs and it's not dependent on how much funding your department has.
And so,
and then,
yeah,
the provision of interim accommodation is basically being codified in the contract language that was already an expectation.
Um but it was not specifically written in there if I recall correctly.

(39:33):
So I say I put emphasis on the word may because that's the language that was in there.
Um And the sort of response to from the UC and then later from other other um union leadership as well was,
well,
the text says the university may ask,
may request documentation,
not that they require it,

(39:53):
which sure on paper sounds fine in practice though documentation was being requested.
Um And you know,
like we talked about earlier,
the actual specifics of that documentation are not really,
you know,
necessarily in line with reality.
And this is not to say that um no one was having their needs met.
There were people who did and I'm really glad that some people were,

(40:15):
but when the system overall is not working for everybody,
that's,
that's why we want to change it,
right?
So that was part of it was the like the May.
Well,
it's not required.
So why do you want to take it out?
Um And then centralized funding was also something we were pushing for there.
And we also initially changed the name of the article to the access needs instead of reasonable accommodations.
And part of that is,
you know,
alluding to the framing that Mary was talking about earlier where accommodations frames it as like this burden upon the university and also the word reasonable,

(40:42):
right?
Which is also very vague and open to interpretation.
And it's the employer ultimately that has the last say on whether or not something is reasonable.
Um And they can decide for whatever reason that something would pre would present uh the lead language is undue hardship,
right?
So the employer gets to decide what actually is reasonable and not reasonable.
Um So we wanted that change to access needs.

(41:03):
Um in order to reflect that this is,
you know,
a need for the employees that the employer is not meeting.
This is the process in order to have those needs met.
If your workplace,
your position for whatever reason does not already meet those needs.
So where we are now is the article is still called reasonable accommodation.
Um And that was something that changed during the negotiations process,

(41:24):
the logic kind of being well,
the university wants it to stay as reasonable accommodation.
So we're gonna agree to that.
Sure.
Um And then sort of bit by bit,
we kind of started losing pieces um of,
of things and,
you know,
centralized funding,
for example,
um was,
was taken out um on the,
on the negotiating table and then there was a clause added in specifying like,

(41:48):
oh,
we want to have these meetings um between labor,
labor relations in the university and then um union representatives for graduate student workers.
So that was added in um and then because you had four units negotiating at the same time,
um Also a lot of our contract language is just identical um for things like um they were,

(42:08):
they were referred to as like non-economic because they're not about wages which are gonna vary with different positions and that kind of thing.
And that description is,
I mean,
kind of vague and not really my favorite because I feel like it doesn't really,
you know,
in,
in encapsulate what not one things that are not related to wages as if that is the only like major classifier.
And then two ultimately,

(42:29):
they are tied into wages because nothing happens in a vacuum,
blah,
blah,
blah.
But so a lot of these articles had identical text,
um reasonable accommodations was one of them.
And so what kind of wound up happening was the original version of the article or?
Sorry?
I shouldn't say original.
Basically the version that um kept medical documentation uh dropped,

(42:50):
centralized funding included the provision for meetings and codified the language on interim accommodations was passed by the other unit.
Um And so we got to a point where the tas or the A ses academic student employees were the only ones that um had not passed it.
And so there was this sort of pressure of like,
ok,
this language has been accepted by the other units,

(43:12):
you know,
why are you holding out for,
for different language?
Um You know,
we need to like we need to get this,
this moving and there was this sort of um and this wasn't just specific to the reasonable accommodations article um towards the end of the strike when we were moving towards the tentative agreement,
there was this sort of tone of like urgency or,
or um like expediency um politically that we just the best thing to do would be to have a contract finalized and,

(43:36):
and ready to go.
Um Oh,
Mary has a hand up.
Did you wanna add something?
I think that that was just such a wonderful context to move,
which I didn't know.
And so,
and just so well articulated.
So we're just very,
um,
we just all love each other as you so complimentary.
Um,
but all,
all of it is sincere.

(43:57):
I,
I guess I just wanted to like,
give a little,
I just wanted to give a little bit of the like context uh or like emotional context that we all went into the strike with which I think sort of described the kind of like parameters of,
but I'll say that I know you guys have,
I think you have discussed this in the past on your podcast,

(44:19):
but the the 2020 wildcat strikes at Santa Cruz and the kind of mo momentum that was building for like a real actually good contract,
um good working conditions that would challenge the,
the the sort of uh exclusionary structure of the neoliberal or university had been building in the,

(44:45):
in the years and in the period leading up to the strike,
right?
And so the reason that we went into the strike,
in fact,
with these really historic demands,
some of which in which of which access needs was one,
but there were so many others,
right?
There was,
you know,
there was a community safety article that was trying to,
was trying to limit or get rid of uh funding for campus policing.

(45:06):
Uh we went in with a 54 K wage floor and a cost of living adjustment.
There was that we went in with um like an actual,
you know,
I have two young Children.
We went in with an actual what would have been a proper stipend for,
for child care,
allowing us to teach and work.
There were so many,

(45:27):
there was so much energy and excitement around all of those demands which are,
in fact,
working conditions demands.
One.
I just want to sort of shout out Megan Lynch from UCC access now who's sort of like a theoretician of a lot of this stuff.
And you know,
she used the phrase,
these are working conditions demands.
That is what they are like.
There are demands that would allow us to be able to have good working conditions like in order for us to all benefit.

(45:54):
Similarly,
you know,
equitably from this massive race that we're all fighting for.
And there was just so much excitement about that and I'll just say two things about the sort of lead up to the strike,
which is that within that context,
that was the context in which a few of us who had been organizing around around COVID and pandemic safety felt inspired to at the very last minute,

(46:18):
like literally with the strike a week away,
say,
you know what,
let's propose a public health safety article like let's say we,
we need working,
we need good working conditions.
And this was sort of how we started to find each other and to realize that there were people working around this at different campuses because we were working in isolation and just like everybody else,
you know,
continuing to fight for health and safety around the pandemic,

(46:39):
like being made to feel isolated and alone uh systematically by the Biden administration and the,
and the media and,
and also by extension by other people around us.
And so we said,
look,
you know,
there are all of these really,
there is this,
there is this very strong group uh primarily at Davis,

(46:59):
you see access now and,
and there is a disability committee within the union.
There are all,
there's,
these are demands that already exist.
There are these other historic demands like let's add this.
And so we wrote and we,
you know,
wrote up this article a again and,
and proposed it to the union which very quickly tried to dodge us using like a million different strategies.

(47:20):
First of all saying that it was not,
it was illegal to add something in at the last minute,
which is just not true.
Um It doesn't make any sense and,
you know,
we would,
we would like it was this back and forth where we'd say,
you know,
what about this?
And then they would come at us with something like,
oh,
well,
that's illegal.
Oh,
well,
that's regressive bargaining.
Oh,
well,
that's um you can't ask those things.

(47:42):
Like the UC is banning people to require masks.
Like you can't ask for,
you can't ask that.
And,
you know,
we would kind of go back and forth and,
and work our networks and ask all these lawyers and kind of come back and be like,
well,
our lawyers say,
you know,
even though we didn't exactly have lawyers,
we had like kind of community movement,
people who we were talking with.
But like,
it was all very exciting and I'll say that,

(48:03):
you know,
just to kind of be really concrete just like,
so was that the the content of,
of what ultimately became our public health and safety article just asked the university to continue doing the kinds of things that they were that are documented ways to protect workers against airborne illness and which include the,

(48:29):
you know,
right to ask your classroom to mask or your workplace to mask uh accessible availability to N95,
you know,
free availability to N95 respirators for everybody,
ventilation upgrades,
contact tracing and,
and isolation.
And I think there was one more but I'm forgetting.

(48:50):
And,
and so,
you know,
of course,
these are things that we had already had.
And like I said,
I,
I do think that that part of an additional reason why this was so important is because the u the university is trying to create a precedence.
I mean,
this is not the pandemic is not over and it's not the last pandemic and climate change is going to create more and more is already creating,

(49:10):
especially in California,
more and more unsafe working conditions.
And what they're trying to do is to get us to consent by saying,
oh,
well,
you already did,
you know,
you already did last time.
And so we just felt that this was so important,
not only for our own,
our own safety,
but like in a kind of movement context.
And,
you know,
of course,
ultimately,
the the union did not allow us to add that to the contract.

(49:33):
But in the process,
we built such beautiful momentum and connections around all of these different things,
especially access needs.
Um where,
you know,
in,
throughout the through the period of the strike at the very beginning,
we would show up at all of the negotiations were happening online,
we would show up,
we would put our petitions on,

(49:54):
you know,
in the zoom,
we would,
we would keep saying in the chats,
what about access needs?
What about the public health and safety?
What about community safety?
Um We would keep on doing this thing and then people would start to repeat them as they say,
thought that we were repeating the other things that people were sort of there to prioritize,
they would start repeating things back.
So I just remember two moments so vividly towards the end of the strike.
The first one was the day when they cut the access needs article where we got word a couple of hours that they were going to,

(50:20):
you know,
that the thing that Sara had described happened where they had the other units had said,
ok,
we're gonna get rid of this.
We're going to agree to the university's language and we were told,
ok,
they're gonna have a meeting about it tonight and,
and so,
and so we put out on all of our list serve.
We're sort of growing these lift serves and these signal chats we put out on our lift serves.
There's a meeting about access needs.

(50:40):
Everyone has to show up and like 300 people showed up and it was a,
I don't know,
four hour meeting.
I left early.
I got tired like of people just of these heart wrenching and beautiful and like just beautiful from the sense of solidarity.
Stories of people saying one thing after another about their like exclusionary experiences with the university,
denying their access needs and about people like getting COVID because they had to go and teach and no one else was wearing masks.

(51:06):
And then now,
and like now they have long co you know,
now they have long COVID or their preexisting conditions are exacerbated or they,
you know,
they just like we were all like crying and on zoom with the bargaining team and it was like such an amazing expression of solidarity.
And,
you know,
the next day,
of course,
they,
they gutted the article,

(51:26):
we didn't win medical documentation,
but we built such,
we built such power in the process and towards the very end of the strike.
Actually,
even after we got this,
you know,
they've sort of rushed through this tentative agreement right before Christmas.
When they knew everyone was tired and was wanting to kind of go home.
We were starting to get emails from people that we didn't even know that we're using that.

(51:50):
We're like using access needs saying we can't leave disabled students behind,
we can't leave our disabled workers behind.
Like we have to fight for each other's rights.
It was just like so spectacular,
right?
And it was so quick and,
and it was because,
and this is why ultimately we have sort of named this emergent coalition,
justice Coalition because what we really did was see the overlap between all of the intersecting identities that we many of us hold,

(52:17):
see the overlap with,
with other kind of demands,
working conditions,
demands and say,
you know what,
we can only win these together and we have to fight for it.
We have to fight for each other.
We have to fight with each other and,
and I just think that that it was just so beautiful and,
and,
and it has a lot of potential,
you know,
not just at the University of California,

(52:38):
but I would say everywhere Dana,
do you wanna add on to what uh Sara and Mary had just been saying about the uh union politics.
Yeah,
I,
I wanted to first say that Mary's um characterization of,
of sort of some of the coalitional parts of this and some of the um the ways in which we all came together was amazing and it,

(53:08):
it really was emotionally and in terms of like better futures,
kind of what we can imagine together,
it was really inspiring.
Um Of course,
there was that betrayal,
um which is something that we necessarily didn't see coming.

(53:29):
But I did want to sort of talk a little bit about the way in which access needs was slotted.
Um and sort of the way in which it was put off.
Um And how that might have allowed it to be gutted,
um just in terms of when it was brought up in bargaining,

(53:54):
it was brought up once where there was testimony along with um child care.
And of course,
that was great for disabled folks and,
and parents because they realize,
hey,
we have so much in common if they hadn't realized it already,
right.
Um But,
you know,
sort of both gave testimonies and then,

(54:14):
um there was very little if any movement on the UC side and then it was sort of put off until I think October November.
And at that point,
there was a lot of misinformation about how this worked,
what we could lose if we continued the strike.

(54:35):
And so people were like,
basically,
well,
we've gotten X amount of a pay increase.
If we keep fighting,
we'll lose everything.
And so those like groups that were viewed as add-ons or like not necessary,
their demands were the ones that were at the end,
not developed,

(54:57):
not worked on in bargaining so much.
And then with the yes,
no vote and the yes vote winning ended up being lost.
Um,
and I think that's something that's important to look at and think about.
Um of course,
the other thing is that even the language um of the um the article,

(55:20):
there's i it's too much to go into now,
but there are many ways in which even certain terms in the article that we were asking to get rid of are used against student workers um in the employment context.
Um And one of the things that was dropped by the A sc sorry,

(55:40):
by the GSRS,
by the,
the um sru was basically supervisor training,
like they were really,
really stuck to that and,
and all of a sudden it was dropped and there was really no explanation as to why um people have even developed the tools for that training um for free.

(56:06):
We're,
you know,
offering it to the QC um real educators.
Um And yeah,
I guess the other thing I wanted to say is like a lot of the times this was like one person asking another person in a larger network,
like I do wanna say that a lot of the justice Coalition.

(56:29):
It was individuals reaching out to other individuals saying,
don't forget this,
don't forget your disabled comrades,
don't forget to add in addition to cops off campus add access me.
Um And that was a lot of work.
It was meaningful though to see that when people would leave it out,

(56:54):
they would immediately apologize and genuinely,
you know,
say,
oh my gosh,
we're so sorry or that when somebody brought up like being sensitive to language in a union space with rank and file that,
you know,
the leaders of the meeting also stopped to introduce like let's not tolerate ableist terms and stop the meeting because they hadn't done that.

(57:18):
Um Just to make sure that everybody knew.
So,
yeah,
Sarah,
you,
you had your hand up,
you wanted to add something.
Yeah.
And I,
I know we're um like maybe over,
over time and I'll try to keep this um keep this short,
but there were just like um one or two other other things that um I wanted to,
to say about this.

(57:39):
And yeah,
I think just,
and this kind of goes into um you know what uh sorry words are hard.
So basically they're in addition to this like communication that was turning really powerful.
Um and having like lots of folks,
you know,
come together across like child care,
um protections for international workers,
disabled workers,
community safety.
So like a lot of us were talking to each other and so these were terms that we were all so seeing in like mainstream or like broader communications from,

(58:06):
from union leadership.
So like we would get,
you know,
updates using the phrase access needs.
Um even though the article had reverted back to the name reasonable accommodations,
right?
We were seeing like flyers and informational updates.
So basically information that would say like,
you know,
we want XY and Z and so um the access needs article is really great because of this,
this and this which you know on on the surface was like en encouraging and this is separate from what Dana is talking about.

(58:30):
I'm not trying to like discredit um or say that it's not meaningful to have those because yeah,
for a lot of people that was coming from a genuinely good place.
And at the same time,
what we also saw was that language being appropriated uh and being used to portray the situation as being different than it than it actually was.
So like,
yes,
we did remove the language on medical documentation and it went to the old language.

(58:52):
But the old language says that like it's not required.
So it's fine and yeah,
supervisor training,
centralized funding,
those were all taken out.
But now we have language that interim accommodation.
So like this is a big deal and you know,
to see access needs and also disability justice,
which is its own movement,
right?
This was started by like Queer Black and brown,
disabled folks,
I believe in the Bay area.

(59:12):
It has its own specific like 10 principles or 10 tenants like that is a very specific movement and the phrase disability justice or the name disability justice gets used all the time just like not being credited to that movement at all.
Um And so to see things like we're prioritizing disability justice or access needs are being met.
Um And you know,
people would say access needs in their talking points and also sometimes incorrectly,

(59:35):
like there would be um folks saying like,
oh,
so we have protections for,
I don't know,
we're increasing the subsidy for child care.
And our contract also has access needs and it's like,
well,
no,
the contract doesn't have access needs,
the workers do in the access needs article.
So it was also just sort of this like fundamental like misunderstanding.
Um And then also not even seeing like the that care to really understand it.

(59:59):
Um And,
you know,
Mary described this meeting where a lot of people were logging on zoom,
um which by the way,
our bargaining sessions used to all be on Zoom and then they shifted in person.
Um And so before you had everybody on the bargaining team attending these sessions and then also anybody who was part of the unit could watch and then it became,
oh,
it's in person.
Oh,
it's in a room.

(01:00:19):
The technology is iffy,
not all the members can travel to this one spot.
So it was also like a sort of reduction in um how much of the information was like free flowing.
The closer and closer we got um to the end of the strike and the end of negotiations.
But anyway,
you would,
there were also so the testimonials,
right?
We had like those two sessions,
um the meeting where people were just organically showing up and saying,

(01:00:41):
you know,
this is what's happened to me.
Um And then that information,
you know,
that very real emotional,
powerful,
like traumatic stories,
like just not being considered or acknowledged in a meaningful way.
Uh There was also I I have this really vivid,
vivid memory of being on the picket line.
Um And there was supposed to be a call,
some of the workers who were part of,

(01:01:02):
you know,
what's now that like justice coalition,
different U CS were like,
oh,
we set up this meeting uh to talk to these people in the union leadership on the bargaining team who are voting members and can you,
can you come?
And I was like,
yes,
sure,
I was,
I was a non-voting member just to clarify.
But yeah,
so I was there.
Um and with the exception of one of the voting members who helped with the original access need language,
none of them showed up.
So there was this very real,

(01:01:23):
you know,
I mean,
effort does not really do it justice,
but you know,
a lot of time and energy.
And I mean,
this is,
this is people's health and survival we're talking about so truly,
like heartfelt desperate attempts to say,
listen to us.
Um And then for people to not show up to these meetings,
to ignore the emails was very,

(01:01:44):
very heartbreaking and very discouraging.
Um And so at the same time,
you had the leadership,
right?
While within um across the campuses and through different um through different groups and everything,
a bunch of us connecting to each other,
the majority of leadership not engaging in that and not taking that seriously.

(01:02:04):
And when the access news article was finally,
you know,
kind of completely,
completely struck down and the um the reasonable accommodations article was finally passed by um the T A unit by 2065.
Uh It was,
and this happened with a lot with other articles too,
not just access needs slash reasonable accommodations,
but the voting margin was actually really slim.
Um This didn't really happen with other other units.

(01:02:27):
Their voting margins tended to be,
you know,
majority in a certain way,
but 28 65 was pretty,
was pretty split.
So this kept,
so there was a reason it kept persisting,
you know,
and showing up kind of sticking out to the bitter end with the T A unit and,
and not the other ones.
So this is all,
you know,
going down kind of behind the scenes because when we got to the end too.
Like,
not only were the meetings,

(01:02:48):
not always on Zoom,
but they would also,
they weren't scheduled anymore.
It would be like 9,
10 o'clock at night and,
oh,
we're,
we're having bargaining right now.
You know,
there were meetings that would go past midnight to one o'clock in the morning.
And so as we're getting towards the end here,
all of these other,
um,
articles that were,
yeah,
like,
considered non-economic or special interests,

(01:03:10):
right?
Again,
terms I don't really like,
but those were also being finally voted upon or finally decided upon in spaces that,
you know,
people would find out after the fact.
But in the moment,
like,
do you happen to be if you happen to be on your phone and like not exhausted and wanted to log on at 10 pm during the holiday break?
Sure.
But for the most part,
you know,
you weren't seeing large turnout like you were before when it was like,

(01:03:32):
ok,
bargaining is happening on Zoom.
It's happening this day,
this time,
here's the link.
So all of these things are kind of happening at once.
What's happening with access needs is happening with child care and the international Worker articles.
Um and all of that.
So there is also this like broader context of like here's what's happening and how it's affecting the different ones.
But yeah,
so for access needs specifically,

(01:03:52):
we started seeing it get like more not notoriety but from the leadership side it wasn't like,
you know,
since sincere notoriety it was words but not without that support to,
to back it up,
I'll stop there.
I especially appreciate just you giving a sense of all of the work and time and also just the emotional,
um,
labor that went into those struggles.

(01:04:15):
I think that a lot of times people don't think about that and just,
um,
it's real,
it's so hard when you feel like you're,
you're seen as like a thorn in someone's side,
you know,
or you're like,
oh that's so annoying when you're really fighting for your own well-being and just the way,
you know,
you're talking about um the heartbreak that's involved in feeling like you're being let down,

(01:04:36):
you're like,
you're making yourself vulnerable and sharing,
you know,
very personal experiences and needs and then you're um you're being treated with such disrespect is that's,
it's a really hard thing to go through in general.
But in a political context,
I think a lot of times people don't realize how,
I mean,
obviously,

(01:04:57):
I,
I haven't been involved in this specific campaign but some of that resonated with me and,
and political experiences I've had um just how hard that is.
I'm glad that you all,
it seems like you had a community that could kind of voice that with each other and like,
recognize how basically fucked up it was.
Um But anyway,
you know,
I'm,
I'm sorry that you all had to go through,

(01:05:19):
through that and,
you know,
it,
it's not,
it's not right and it's not the way that union politics should be.
Yeah.
And I mean,
I think part of it too is like,
because it's one thing to present things and,
you know,
talk them out,
negotiate,
really push for them at the bargaining table and then it's another thing to not even try.
And so I think,
you know,
because there are people who are happy with where the contract is at or people who weren't happy about voted yes.

(01:05:41):
Anyway.
And that's fine.
And I'm not really,
you know,
here to hash out like that kind of thing.
It's more that just like you can tell when somebody has your interests at heart and is,
is fighting for you.
And I think for a lot of people,
it just felt like,
you know,
you're not that,
that we're not even being listened to.
And it was also,
you know,
frustrating to see things displayed as or phrased as,

(01:06:01):
oh,
these are wins.
Like if you,
if honestly,
it was just ok,
we tried,
we did not get these things,
we made the decision to pick this over this.
So this is what we have like,
I respect that,
right?
You,
you know,
more than we made these amazing wins and it's very,
very different than what we had before.

(01:06:22):
Like at least if you're going to make a decision,
however you make that decision just own up to it and don't try to portray it as,
as something that it's not right.
Like we'll still be upset that the protections didn't happen.
But,
you know,
I'm not being,
I'm not being lied to.
Right.
I'm not being treated like I'm not intelligent enough to see what's,
what's going on.
Yeah.
So that added just kind of another level of,

(01:06:43):
of frustration for,
for a lot of folks was just,
like,
give us the information,
be honest,
right?
Like we all are here to do the work and we can't do that if we're not informed and we don't have trust and this agreement is fine.
Like this agreement is healthy.
We're not all going to agree on everything all the time and it shouldn't be that way.
Um But there just wasn't really avenues for disagreeing,

(01:07:04):
taking that into account and also just being,
being straightforward with,
with people.
But yeah,
and I see Dana,
you unm muted.
Did you want?
Yeah,
I was just gonna say that like during those time and thank you for pointing that out because that absolutely true about sort of how access needs was being kind of used to check off in a box that wasn't even being checked off.

(01:07:27):
And the thing is that most people may not have known but weren't necessarily trying to find out.
Um And one of the things that I think was incredible from the Justice Coalition was that a number of people made incredibly well crafted,
what is actually being proposed,

(01:07:49):
what are we winning?
What are we not explain our guide and those were extremely well done.
Um The amount of time that was put into educating and,
and explaining um what was actually going to be accomplished or not,
was so great that that alone to me was something really powerful.

(01:08:10):
I will say too though about sharing testimony,
universities constantly demand from like marginalized groups that they provide data to justify why they need what they need.
I've been in student government and Academic Senate for a while and basically have seen this.

(01:08:31):
Oh,
you,
you think this is a problem,
we haven't heard.
It's a problem where's the data as if it's student and worker's responsibility.
And so the problem with this testimony is well at the time,
it,
it putting aside what it might have done for our community,
it's traumatizing for people to have to retell their story and then to see it not incorporated into the bargaining that's then happening.

(01:09:02):
That to me is something that,
you know,
it led me to question whether that's something people should do in the future because you're opening yourself up to being so vulnerable because you really think and like you said,
desperate people are,
this is everything to them.
This is their survival,
this is their ability to stay in academia,

(01:09:25):
this is their ability to pay their bills or not.
And you know,
people were really in those moments sharing really heart wrenching stories that come from traumatic experiences with the expectation and we should all have this expectation that people listening would at least incorporate it into what happened after.

(01:09:49):
Um So going forward,
I think like the kinds of data that's furnished by marginalized communities in support of certain like change is something that I keep thinking about how to better navigate.
Yeah,
I think that there's a,
there are so many lessons in this kind of in this struggle and I mean,

(01:10:13):
whether it be the framing of these issues is non-economic and moving away from that framing how you build coalitions,
how you genuinely listen to people's testimony and not just discard it and,
and be transactional and,
and so forth and then further just generally transforming how we understand union politics to be more infused with um the justice movements um and not just kind of uh superficial about it.

(01:10:46):
So one of the,
I mean,
we were so concerned and wanting to have multiple,
you know,
interviews dealing with this strike because it seemed like there was a need for a kind of counter history of the strike to even be available because we could see the critiques that you all are describing coming through like Twitter streams and other places.

(01:11:06):
But then the as the T A was getting voted on,
then there was this attempt to kind of wrap it all the bow of historic victories.
And so that seemed to just sort of erase a lot of what had happened.
And with that,
I kind of want to wrap us up and sort of thank you for your contributions,
obviously for the organizing work.

(01:11:26):
But uh taking the time to,
you know,
explain it to us,
run through a playbook play about the kind of organizing that you were doing.
Laura.
Do you want to add anything?
Uh No,
just uh uh thank you so much,
Mary had to um jump off of the interview a little while ago,
but thank you,
Sarah and Dana and Mary who's not here um for so much for enlightening me a lot about,

(01:11:53):
you know,
the efforts that,
that you all undertook.
Um I guess just as the last thing,
is there anything that you would wanna plug like any um links or just um groups you're currently involved with,
just to acknowledge the fact that even though the strike is over,
you know,
the struggles continue and I know that um there's,

(01:12:14):
there's a lot more work to be done,
obviously.
Yeah,
thank you so much for,
for having us.
Um I think I do wanna give a,
I,
I've been like,
you know,
reflecting a lot on,
on,
on the strike and how things have gone down.
And I definitely want to give a shout out to um a lot of the rank and file folks who are on the ticket line in,
in Davis.
We had a mutual aid tent.
Um That was just amazing,

(01:12:35):
you know,
they had like water,
tea snacks.
Um they had like blankets and noise canceling headphones and ear plugs and,
you know,
if you needed to kind of get away from the overstimulation or you just needed a quiet place or you needed like a,
you know,
like a sugar boost,
anything um that,
you know,
was created um by,
by rank and file workers.

(01:12:55):
Um and then the strike kitchen as well that was put together by rank and file workers and cooked lunch every day.
Um And even there was one day when it was pouring rain and like,
you know,
found a kitchen um to use and um just keeping everybody fed and,
and nourished on the picket line was,
was so important.
Um So I wanna give those groups shoutouts for sure and you know,

(01:13:16):
our,
our justice Coalition as well that's been building.
Um It's just been,
yeah,
definitely one of the better parts um of all of this has just been connecting with all of these folks and um yeah,
just figuring out all these ways together that we can keep,
keep supporting each other because I mean,
one thing that I keep coming back to um and that came up a lot in these conversations as well is that,

(01:13:40):
you know,
even in these categories,
there's still such a diversity of experiences and needs,
right?
Like no.
Um even with,
with disability,
there are so many different ways that um disabilities can,
can manifest,
there's so many different types and just making sure that when we think about accessibility,
it's not based on,
it's not like reactive to a specific kind of characteristic,

(01:14:01):
right?
Like we're generally thinking about and you know,
Mary kind of brought this up critiquing this concept of accommodations and thinking about accessibility and instead of it being real to a specific situation saying like,
ok,
proactively,
we are creating spaces that are acceptable for,
for everyone.
Um So,
yeah,
that's those are my,
my,
my shadows and of course,
data and,

(01:14:21):
and Mary who have been so wonderful to work with them.
Yeah,
I if I can just thank you both for including this critical issue and all the issues wrapped up within it and intertwined with it in your past podcast.
And I'm forever in awe of Sara and Mary and all my comrades in the Justice Coalition.

(01:14:43):
I will say that even if the bargaining has ended and the contract negotiations ended,
our work has not ended.
Um We've continued to mobilize um One of the links I wanted to plug,
which were probably gonna change in the future,
but it's link tree um UC disability Justice that has like some of our most recent work.

(01:15:04):
Um I do also have to say that Megan Lynch of UC access now and Heather Ringo really shaped what was able to happen by their work that preceded the strike that preceded the bargaining um and helped sort of frame a lot of these issues in a way that's not just responding to like Sara said,

(01:15:30):
and in a way that fundamentally changed how I thought about activism and organizing.
And I'm thankful to every single person in the justice coalition for helping this sort of happen and for remaining involved in multiple ways.
Um I will also say that it's important not to forget the history of the strike,

(01:15:52):
what was accomplished,
what wasn't accomplished there is a digital archive that we're working on and we would love to share that info with you as well.
And because the problem is every couple of years,
we renegotiate and people don't know what happened.
And so we want to change that.
So that's my plug.
Thank you.

(01:16:13):
That's great.
And we'll put those links in our show notes for our listeners.
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Thanks for listening.

(01:16:33):
Bye.