What happens when a devastating diagnosis becomes the catalyst for a complete life transformation?
Meet Irene Pasternak, whose journey from an early Alzheimer's diagnosis to becoming a marathon runner reveals the extraordinary possibilities that emerge when we refuse to accept limitation. At 65, Irene received news that would stop most people in their tracks: test results showing an 86% chance of full dementia within three years. Instead of retreating, she embarked on a running journey that would transform both her brain health and her entire approach to living.
Irene shares how she discovered "tourist running" – an approach that combines exploration with exercise as she runs as far as possible in new directions before taking public transport home. This creative method helped her progress from barely managing a mile to completing half marathons in less than a year. Most remarkably, her brain scans now show amyloid plaque levels dropping from 76 to below 12 – under the clinical significance threshold – suggesting her treatment and lifestyle changes have dramatically altered her prognosis.
Beyond running, Irene reveals her work as a Feldenkrais practitioner helping people overcome movement limitations, and how she leads summer backpacking trips with llamas for people with Parkinson's disease. Her approach to movement as playful exploration rather than rigid exercise offers valuable insights for runners of any age. The conversation weaves through topics of neuroplasticity, resilience, and finding purpose after diagnosis – including how she now treasures time with her young granddaughter, creating memories she once feared would be impossible.
Whether you're a runner seeking fresh perspective, someone facing health challenges, or simply in need of inspiration, Irene's story reminds us that sometimes our greatest adventures begin precisely when we think our stories are ending. Subscribe now and share this episode with someone who might need to hear that their diagnosis doesn't have to be their destiny.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome back to Over the Next Hill
Fitness Podcast.
I'm Carla Coffey, your coachand host for today's program.
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(00:24):
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(01:29):
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your posts and texts there.
Today we're talking to IrenePasternak.
Fun story.
Great, outstanding lady hassome interesting things to say
(01:52):
about llamas and hiking.
So hopefully you guys willenjoy the story and then we'll
see you at the end.
Have a great day.
Welcome to the show, irene.
It's great to have you here.
Thank you for inviting me.
Oh, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So let's start today's journey with your
running experience and how yougot started and where you went
diagnosed with early Alzheimer'sand I enrolled in a clinical
trial for a new medication,started on that medication in, I
think, august and, like anybodywith anything new that's going
(02:37):
on, you go to Dr Google and Ilearned more about the
medication called Donanumab andthe research showed that it was
most effective with people withyounger onset and I was 65.
And so that's younger forAlzheimer's and people who are
more fit and I'm an ice skater,but that isn't something that
(02:59):
gets my heart rate upcontinuously, whatever.
And I got well.
And then I got really depressed.
I mean, there's there's nothinglike a diagnosis, like three
years till you'll be on in fullon dementia to shake up your
world, and did some counselingand realized, okay, what
resources do I have internallythat I can use?
And one is well, you know Icould, I could, I could get more
(03:22):
fit if the medication is goingto be more effective if I'm more
fit.
And so I started running inJanuary 2024.
And when I started I could runabout a mile and I just
gradually, slowly, I set onegoal for myself, which is I am
going to do this injury free.
I am going to go slow enoughand steady enough that I don't
(03:43):
hurt myself.
And so I started graduallyincreasing my mileage and I
think in March I did a 5k andthen I just fell in love with it
, with running.
And I went on a family vacationwith my extended family in May
and to France, and I don't know,for me, traveling with a big
(04:05):
group of people gets a littleclaustrophobic, and so, and
since I was running and it was aflat area, I thought I'll go
exploring.
And I discovered what I nowcall tourist running, where run
as far as I can in whateverdirection, and then take public
transportation home.
Um, so that I, I and I just ranall over and really enjoyed
that and increased my distancesignificantly, because tourist
(04:27):
running, you're stopping to takepictures, you're going where am
I?
It changed my approach insteadof running with a watch to
running somewhere new.
And then I came home from thatand had gotten my mileage up, so
I signed up for a half marathon, did a half marathon and then
(04:54):
it took me a little while torecover from that and anyway, so
it's been just this journey offinding a new identity as a
runner and loving it over thelast year and then last summer I
got great news from the studyI'm in.
The study measures the level ofamyloid plaque in your brain,
which is an indicator ofAlzheimer's, and I went from a
(05:15):
level of 76, which is the 86%chance of being full-on dementia
in three years, to below 12,which is below clinically
significant.
So the medication worked for me, cleared the plaque, I'm not
having the mental challenges Iwas two years ago, and so I'm
feeling like running reallytransformed my life.
(05:36):
Along with this medication.
It gave me myself back in avery literal sense myself back.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Congratulations.
That's great numbers.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And um, and of course I had this image right.
I said I was going to go injuryfree for a year and on January
1st I did my first run with arunning club.
Usually I run by myself and I'mvery mindful of my body and
what's happening.
And I got all excited aboutrunning faster with people and
anyway, and I hurt myself andI'm just now back after healing
(06:12):
that injury.
So I've set another goal overthe rest of this year injury
free.
I got to keep my goals goingfurther into the future.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, it's hard sometimes running with a group,
especially if it's a route youdon't know and you're just
trying to keep up and yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and and, and I was feeling so good.
You know that that high of ofgoing well, I did do a run
yesterday and I don't usuallyrun.
I've been very careful to givemyself the rest days in between
and to listen to my body, thaton days that it doesn't feel
good, go slower or don't go orjust go like.
Listening is more importantthan the goals.
(06:49):
Um and uh, I overrode it and um, and I also hadn't realized how
many miles I'd racked up in theyear and I hadn't bought new
running shoes.
And so that was the otherlesson.
By new running shoes at threeor 400 miles, don't was the
other lesson.
Buy new running shoes at threeor 400 miles, don't say it's
(07:09):
fine.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But you live and learn.
But that's so incredible thatyou didn't even start running
until you're 65.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And now you've done half marathons and five days.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
And tourist running, which Ireally love.
Tourist.
Running is the real pleasureand I've decided any race I do
is going to have to be someplaceI haven't been before, just so
that there's a newness to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, so are you going to join some of the crazy
clubs like the ones that do ahalf marathon in every state and
things like that?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I doubt it.
I doubt it.
I have too much else going onin my life.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So what is your next running goal?
Do you have?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I'd like to do a marathon.
I had signed up for one inApril this year and probably
would have made it without if Ihadn't gotten hurt.
But I got hurt.
So I was thinking about thatwhen I was on my run this
morning and I think the righttiming for me will be next
spring In the summer.
And I think the right timingfor me will be next spring In
the summer.
I lead backpacking trips withllamas.
I take people with Parkinson'sand then older people and
families out into thebackcountry and the llamas carry
(08:15):
their gear.
I do the cooking and thecleaning and the guiding and the
keeping it safe for us, and soI don't get a lot of running in
in the summer because I am umhiking five days a week and I
need I need my rest days.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, for sure yeah, but that hiking is is good as
running.
That's just a um it keeps.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It definitely keeps me fit, but it's it's.
It's different than thanrunning, and different enough
that I feel like I have to hiketo get in shape for hiking and
run to get in shape for running.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Sure, I feel like I have to hike to get in shape for
hiking and run to get in shapefor running.
Sure, but the cross training isgreat, so good for you.
Now, where do you live thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
llama backpacking, I live in Seattle, washington.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Oh, wow, yeah, and they do that there.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, we take groups out into the Olympic mountains
and to the Cascades.
So some of our hikes are on thePacific Crest Trail, some are
on smaller trails near that andthen up in the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So now do you camp for that, or are there cottages?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
No, it's camping.
It's like backpacking, exceptthat you don't have to carry
your own pack.
The llamas carry it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Nice, yeah, I could get behind that.
Somebody else carry my pack.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It changes the experience.
It's like doing five day tripsin a row, except you're way out
in the back country instead ofclose to a trailhead, so you get
to see things that you wouldn'tsee otherwise.
And the experience of beingwith a group of people and that
kind of intensity is, I findthat, pure joy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, Now how did you get involved with doing that?
And the Parkinson's how didthat all tie in?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So when I was in my 40s I switched careers and I
went back to school to become aFeldenkrais practitioner.
Feldenkrais is a kind ofmovement, education, paradigm
shift, discipline that Idiscovered when I had herniated
a disc in a bicycling accident.
Um, and it was what I used torehabilitate myself from the
(10:11):
herniated disc problem and um,it's a a four-year training.
Um, and go back a littlefurther.
My mom had parkinson's and Iwas her primary caregiver and
the two of us ran a supportgroup.
My mom had Parkinson's and Iwas her primary caregiver and
the two of us ran a supportgroup for people with
Parkinson's and she passed awayin 1999.
(10:33):
But Parkinson's is on my radarjust because of my experience
being her caregiver.
And there was a woman in one ofmy Feldenkrais trainings who
had Parkinson's and I saw whatthe Feldenkrais was doing for
her and her ability to continuefunctioning despite the disease
progression.
When I started my practice Istarted working with people with
(10:55):
Parkinson's and kind of a wayof giving back something I wish
I could have given back to mymom but didn't know about it
when she was alive, something Iwish I could have given back to
my mom but didn't know about itwhen she was alive and then.
So I'm on a Parkinson's mailinglist and I got mailing about a
program called Pass to Passwhich takes people with
(11:16):
Parkinson's on the Pacific CrestTrail on six day hikes and they
use llamas to carry the gearand they need support hikers
because you take one person withParkinson's, one person, as a
support hiker to to help ifthere's fine motor challenges of
or whatever's needed.
And so I volunteered to be asupport hiker, cause I thought
it would be fun.
I backpacked a lot when I was inmy twenties and then didn't
(11:38):
while I was raising my family,um and uh, uh.
And so I just volunteered as asupport hiker, had a wonderful
time, had such a good time.
I came back a week later andcalled them up and said do you
need any more support hikerslater in the summer?
And they did and I volunteeredagain as a support hiker.
Then they asked me to be aguide the next summer.
(11:58):
So the next summer I led twotrips for them.
Noodling around on Facebook andan older women backpacking group
, I saw an advertisement for weneed a backup llama guide for a
company and I called Jeff Fiskerat Washington Llamas and we hit
it off.
I started working for themdoing a couple trips and now
(12:19):
this summer I've got nine tripsscheduled, so it's going to be a
busy summer.
Wow, there's something aboutpartly all the llama stuff
happened at about the time thatI was beginning to notice some
cognitive challenges andbeginning to feel like, wait a
minute, this is my life.
My life is more than two thirdsover, or you know, what do I
(12:42):
want?
And so it's been this shifttoward.
How do I live in the fullest inthe moment?
One of my joys is that I have atwo-year-old granddaughter and
she loves the llama trips and Ilove getting to take her on
trips.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh, you get to take her.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
We do a friends and family trip, and then Jeff lets
me use the llamas to take myfamily out on hikes.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
So now, what's the difference between you being the
guide and you being um avolunteer?
How is that different?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So different organizations.
Pass to Pass is a nonprofit andspecifically for the focus of
taking people with Parkinson'sout on um backcountry adventures
, um and so, in that I'm avolunteer guide, uh, and to be a
guide in either one, you haveto have first aid training, you
have to have the wildernessexperience in order to keep it
safe for the group, theknowledge of how to run a group.
(13:35):
Washington Llamas is afor-profit organization and I'm
an employee.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Oh, okay, yeah, All right.
And how does that fit in withthe I can't Feldenkrais?
Yes, thank you.
Okay, say the word paradise.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Paradise.
Say the word Feldenkrais.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Feldenkrais, oh, it has the same kind of rhythm as
that.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
To say it, thank you, I just shut my practice down
for the summer and take thesummer off.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Okay, yeah, and so with the Feldenkrais, do you see
people outside of the Lamatrips for that?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, I have an office here in Bellevue, washington,
and my husband is also aFeldenkrais practitioner, and so
we have an office with twopractice rooms and a group room
for teaching classes and weteach classes there and work
with people one-on-one.
So we often get people who comein because something hurts and
(14:38):
they've tried PT and it hasn'tworked for them and they're
frustrated and they want theirlife back.
And about a third of ourclients come in and their
shoulder feels better, theirelbow or their foot, whatever it
is neck feels better andthey're happy.
And then about two thirds ofpeople go well, you know, yeah,
my shoulder feels better and nowI've always wanted to take on
(15:02):
pickleball but I was afraid ofhurting my shoulder.
Or they play pickleball andit's like, well, you fixed my
thumb which was bugging me, andnow can you help me with my knee
and then that ankle.
And people who do somethingthey're passionate about and
they want to keep getting betterat it.
Feldenkrais is an incrediblyuseful tool for building your
ability to hear what your coachsays, if you have a coach and
(15:25):
actually do it.
In ice skating, we have a jokethat the answer to everything is
bend your knees, because if youtry to do anything with stiff
legs.
It doesn't work and the, butactually being able to bend your
knees at the right time andknow how to do it Feldenkrais is
what helps people get there.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So so is it a form of mobility work or just PT?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It isn't a form of PT .
We're all working on the samebodies and have some of the same
goals between all the differentdisciplines.
We're really focused on how thebrain learns and
(16:24):
neuroplasticity and how toengage.
You can do so that when you'reout there running or ice skating
or bicycling or playingpickleball, you become your own
coach, your own trainer, becauseyou have the self-awareness.
The man who created it, mosheFeldenkrais, had a very
(16:45):
interesting background.
He grew up in Ukraine, born in1904.
Ukraine was not a good place tobe, born Jewish and experienced
many pogroms when he was just akid, as Israel's formation
against the Arabs, the British,became a judo expert, then a
(17:11):
mechanical engineer, physicist,and some of the story is he
injured his knees playing soccerand he tried to put what he
knew of judo and physics intohow can I walk with missing some
ligaments in my knee?
And it worked.
(17:32):
And then he was director ofelectronics at the Israeli army.
Other people he worked withwere like you fixed your knee,
can you help me with my shoulder?
He started exploring,experimenting and he worked
primarily with a lot of peoplewho were Holocaust survivors,
(17:53):
just as he built his owndiscipline and his goal was
restoring people to their humandignity, and so it's that self
teaching people, theself-reliance to know that they
have control.
We have control over our ownbodies.
So it's not I think of PT asoften very much strengthening
(18:21):
and flexibility, and we seeourselves more as teaching
coordination.
How do you use your whole bodyas a team so that you're not
fighting against yourself?
And so it's a very differentdiscipline.
Yeah, sure journey with it washerniated disc to leading
(18:52):
backpacking trips, to theresilience that I find from it
is wonderful and, I joke, thereason I became a practitioner.
I was a client for eight yearsbecause I kept like I want to
ride the SDP, the Seattle toPortland, the 200 mile bicycle
race, and my knees and my ankleshurt and I worked with my
practitioner to learn how tobicycle more efficiently.
And then I did it.
And then I wanted to learn howto roller skate but I couldn't
bend over enough to time myskate because of the herniated
(19:14):
disc.
Anyway, I learned oh, bodiesare supposed to fold at the hips
, not at the waist.
I was a nerd growing up.
I didn't really use my body asa kid very much a kid very much.
But I did a weekend trainingand it was an introduction to
(19:34):
becoming a Feldenkraispractitioner and there were a
lot of practitioners in their60s and 70s who had these live
and agile bodies and I so wantedone because in my 40s I did not
have that kind of relationshipwith myself and it's nice to
help other people.
But I mostly like it for theimpact it has on myself, Because
when I give a session I get asession.
It's a fun discipline.
It's much more energizing thanwhat I was doing before as a
(19:58):
technical writer.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I would say yeah.
And how does that fit in?
Or does it fit in with theParkinson people?
Does that help?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
them.
I have a contract withNorthwest Parkinson's Foundation
and I teach a few classes aweek for them.
I started during the pandemicdoing that and it's kept going.
So I teach a Feldenkrais class,which is the movement, a lot
about balance and how do you, asParkinson's nibbles away at
(20:31):
people's ability to move,learning how to use their body
better?
There's room for everybody,there's room to improve how we
move and it helps peoplefunction better.
And then I also teach twodifferent kinds of dance classes
for them.
I'm a Nia instructor and anAgeless Grace instructor, and so
(20:53):
those are both seated.
I teach seated exercise classes.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh fun.
Yeah, I wondered you hadmentioned about teaching dance
classes.
That was going to be one of myquestions.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So it's seated dance so it's seated dance.
Uh, for, for the northwestparkinson's foundation I found,
um, about half of my studentscan't do a standing dance class.
It's too much, uh, too much,too fast for their balance.
But there's lots we can doseated, and so it's sometimes I
try to teach both, but that'sjust a little too hard to try to
teach both at the same time.
(21:24):
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, like patting your head and rubbing your tummy
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And, and and and.
The dance I teach Nia is isvery sensory based, and I need
to be able to be sensing what'sin my body in order to give the
cues to the people who I'mworking with, and so if I'm
doing the same thing, it'seasier than if I'm doing
something different, easier thanif I'm doing something
different.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Sure, yeah, yeah, I in the past, long ago past, like
40 years ago, past I taughtstep aerobics and I faced the
group, so I had to tell them theopposite.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, teaching online is verymuch that and it's gotten to me,
so I now reverse it.
I was never very good at leftand right and now I'm horrible
at it because of the reversing.
So I usually, when I'm teachingin this room, it's like use
your bookcase arm.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That arm.
Yeah, so you get where I wasgoing with that.
That's really hard.
It is.
(22:42):
It really is hard to move yourright hand and say move your
left hand.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, and now I probably have finally learned
my left and right, because Idon't teach that anymore.
So I know what you're sayingwith that being hard for you.
Now, how has the taking a fewmonths off from running to heal
my foot?
I managed to hide all myrunning gear and I hid my
running vest where I keep mycell phone with.
(23:09):
What if I hold it so like I waslooking at it?
What if I hold it upside down?
What if I hold it this way?
What if I hold it that way?
How does that change how I run?
And I was just playing with thatfor a quarter mile or less and
checking in with how springy Ifeel on each step and checking
in with that sore spot on myfoot and how does it feel when I
do something different.
So it's experimenting like thatis how it changes my running.
(23:34):
And there's a woman named JayGrunke, who would be a great
person for you to interview, whoruns a company called the
Balanced Runner and she offersrunning camps using the
Feldenkrais method and runningvideo analysis.
She always puts out wonderfulvideos after each major running
(23:55):
competition in the olympics andanalyzing everybody's form and
anyway she's.
I've learned a lot from heryeah, very cool yeah, but it's.
it's that ability to play whenI'm out there, not just put my
headphones on and listen to abook.
That's when I can get myself introuble.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely, I know I'malways watching for potholes,
but even though I have a book onyou really still have to pay
attention.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's the paying attention to my body of like do
I feel springy or not?
Does my foot hurt?
I have, I have the, the usualvarious aches and pains that
that people, you know, we, weall accumulate from our history
of injuries or whatever.
And um, I kind of check in witheach one and then I vary a few
things.
And the way our brains work isif there are more than two
(24:48):
choices, if there's like threeor four or five ways to do it
and your body can sense that itfeels different, your brain will
choose the best one.
But if your brain doesn'trealize you have a choice
because you're doing it the sameway you've always done it, then
you're going to do it the sameway you've always done it and
that can lead to repetitive useinjuries.
So it's the creativity to addvariation in and to the anatomy
(25:10):
knowledge to know what are someanatomical places that if I
introduce variation I'm likelyto get better results from it.
So that's what I'm doing whenI'm running.
And then, of course, having ahusband as a live-in
practitioner is very handy sothat if I have a question,
sometimes it's hard to observeoneself and I come home and say,
(25:32):
hey, can we do someexplorations around X and we'll
play with it.
That's great it's changing theparadigm to.
I'm stuck with this too.
I can do something about it andthat, um, you know, I think
that's an attitude in life thatI got through the, the, the
(25:52):
feldenkrais work, and it helpedwith the.
I'm feeling like my mind is isnot working right.
Um, and then looking around andwhat are my options for getting
help and being able to get intoa clinical study and get thank
God, got into one that had noplacebo and it was a dosing
study of does it work better ifit's twice a month or once a
month for the infusions for it?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
And yeah, so now you're not on that medicine and
you're still great.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Now my brain, my body , because is now trained to, if
plaque builds up, to dissolve itor to break it up.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So how did they test you for that?
Or did you feel like somethingwas wrong and then you got
tested?
What was that?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
like I was finding myself doing strange things,
like going to pay for somethingand handing the clerk my car
keys, or going in the morning toget an apple out of the clerk
my car keys, or going in themorning to get an apple out of
the fridge when I'd been groceryshopping the day before and
finding who put the apples inthe freezer and so like weird
stuff and a little bit oftrouble finding nouns and all my
(26:56):
friends who are my age andolder it's like, oh yeah, this
is just aging.
And it's like, oh, this justdoesn't feel quite right.
And so they were looking forpeople for this study, for
people who were not diagnosed,and it was only through the
(27:17):
study that I got the diagnosis.
So in the study they did bloodtests and MRIs, but the PET scan
is the definitive one formeasuring amyloid plaque level.
And then part of the study theywere correlating blood proteins
with amyloid plaque levelbecause they're trying to
develop the blood tests, becausethat's a lot less expensive for
(27:37):
screening than the PET scan.
But the PET scan is better thanthe autopsy, which before that
was the only way to find out ifpeople had amyloid plaque Right.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Wow, I mean, you've come a long way from all that.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
The last couple of years have been a change from
life shrinking to happier,because I'm doing what's more
important to me.
I reorganized my schedule so Icould spend a whole day a week
with my granddaughter, and oneof the things I was saddest
about with the diagnosis of,she's not going to know me as me
.
I have that memory of my owngrandmother with Alzheimer's and
(28:20):
then my mother with dementiaand my kids and a lot of sadness
there and it's like, okay, howcan I build the time I do have
and doing a photo journey withher and making up a box of books
of like my favorites that Iwant to hand to her when she's
(28:42):
10, and and and and reading, andand being with her is just one
of the joys of of of of my liferight now, and so it's it's
living more intentionally andrunning it.
Running has been a big part ofit.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And now you may not have.
You can push that off for along time now, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
The research.
The drug is new enough thatsome of the studies say it just
slows things down by nine monthsor so, and some of that it's
like a permanent change in yourbody.
And there's still research thatgoes.
Is amyloid plaque really theonly thing that's causing the
dementia?
Is it just a symptom ofsomething else that's going on?
And if this just gets rid ofthe plaque and it doesn't get to
(29:26):
the root cause, there's a lotof unknowns in the Alzheimer's
research.
I'm hoping to get into anotherfollow-on study so that I can
continue to get measured,because the PET scans are really
expensive and hard to.
What I found is that theprimary care physicians are not
caught up to the currentresearch, and even when I was
(29:51):
having challenges, I was stillpretty functional in a lot of
ways, and so there was no don'tworry about it, wait till it
gets worse.
And that's just the wrongresponse Now that there are
drugs that the earlier you geton them, the more effective they
are.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's really sad that that's their
attitude.
Oh, just wait until it getsworse.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
No, Well it's.
It's it's when, when you don'thave a tool, that's really all
you can do, but when there aretools that can help.
Um and like with Parkinson'sresearch, one of the most
fascinating things in theresearch is that every day a
week you exercise multiplies thequality of your life by the
(30:31):
same amount.
It's like exercising once isgood, exercising seven times is
a lot better.
And those are things you can dowhen you have it.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So does the Feldenkrais help other types of
maladies like multisclerosis orthose who have had a stroke and
have limited use?
Does that help that type ofthing?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yes, yeah, and one of my first clients who had a
stroke she was young when shehad her stroke in her late 50s
and spent a year learning how towalk again came into me a
couple of years later and shewas back, working back,
functional, but awkward Um, andI worked with her on her balance
(31:26):
and, uh, she was able to go iceskating with her grandson again
which she was really excitedabout and ride a bicycle.
But she said the thing thatreally made her realize how much
better she was was when shewent into her stroke support
group.
Wearing high heels was allanybody wanted to ask about.
Is what do you mean?
You can wear high heels again,so it can be very helpful.
(31:46):
We've worked with one littlegirl who had a stroke in utero
and an anoxic event that tookout the part of the brain that
controls movement and she camein at nine months old, not able
to roll over, reach a hand up orwhatever, and she's now
mainstreamed in, got tocalculate the years, middle
(32:09):
school.
But the earlier we get tosomebody, the more effective we
can be.
So when we work with littlekids who have had an anoxic
event, we do a lot with specialneeds kids the sooner we get to
them, the less damage thathappens.
(32:30):
Um, we've worked with peoplewith heart conditions um, and
prevented surgery on one littleboy.
He'd had open heart surgerytwice for um congenital heart
challenges.
He came to us at four and hewas turning blue, was scheduled
for his next surgery.
We worked with him to get hisribs to expand and contract
(32:51):
properly, because after heartsurgery when you've been cut and
sewed back together you tend tobe protective of your chest and
not being able to get that fullvolume.
Anyway, he went into the doctorand the doctor for his next
appointment is like something'schanged and so that was.
That was one one real successstory.
It's also fun working.
(33:13):
One of my clients now is in herchurch choir and helping her to
.
She came in because of footproblems but now we work on how
to get her voice to be even moreexpressive, because vocal cords
are just another set of muscles.
They can be worked on the sameway as anything else with it.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
So yeah, that's very rewarding, I bet.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It is very fun work.
It's fun work.
I bet it is very fun work.
It's fun work.
Sometimes it's frustrating tobe in a discipline that isn't
well-known and isn't covered byinsurance, because then it's
like, how do I find ways to getit to people that I can make a
living from and they can afford?
And so that's what I love itwhen places like Northwest
(34:02):
Parkinson's Foundation hire meso that I can do group classes
and the people who need it don'thave to.
It's not a risk to trysomething new, it's just a free
option that they can do.
Yeah that's great.
And then anybody who's watchingthis has Parkinson's.
Nwpforg is where you can findinformation about my classes.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, and those listening as well, feel free,
and we'll put that in the shownotes too, so that people can
get the direct link to you thatway.
So you've got now a marathonnext spring.
Did you just defer the one thatyou were unable to do for April
?
I?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
think I'll run a 10K.
I can change my time in thisone, my distance yeah, and
that's local.
That's local.
It's about half an hour away ina city called Everett.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Okay, yeah, I've heard of Everett, and so then,
what else?
After the 10K, before themarathon?
Anything besides all yourbackpacking?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
That'll be my summer hiking season, and so anything I
can do to maintain during thesummer is good.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, and how long is your season of hiking?
From what month to what month?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
My first trip is in May.
My last trip is in September.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh, wow, yeah, and you do five a week.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You said I'm doing nine trips, so it's about three
a month during the summer.
Some of them are two day, someare four day, some are five days
, one six day.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And even if it rains, it doesn't matter, you guys are
still hiking.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Oh, of course.
Yeah, uh, fires are the biggestthing that interferes.
Sometimes we have to reroutedepending on fire season, which
has gotten worse.
I took my.
One of the trips with mygranddaughter was really fun
because she really likesmushrooms.
She's just fascinated bymushrooms and she's not allowed
to touch them because there'ssome poisonous ones.
But she pokes them with a stickand so she just walked around
(35:54):
poking every little mushroom andit rained about an inch one
night and we had all the gearpiled up on the high spot and
the big tarp and we're all justall the grownups are trying not
to whine and she's just pokingmushrooms and having so much fun
that the rest of us had tobehave and have a good time.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
That sounds like a blast.
I would love to do that.
I would actually just like togo with her and watch her poke
mushrooms.
I think is really what.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I'd want to announced .
Her parents know which ones aresafe.
So we ate a lot of mushrooms onthat trip too, so that was fun.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh really, wow, yeah, that's, that's no.
I know in our area I live inWisconsin and I'm originally
from Michigan and in Michiganand Wisconsin, morels are a big
deal Do they have those there?
Yes, yeah, Okay, so that'sprobably.
I don't know if you eat thoseraw.
I don't know that I've ever hadthem, but I know they're pretty
(36:48):
good.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I don't know.
I never.
When there's somebody who'svery confident in their knowing
which mushrooms are good, I'lleat them, but that's not
something I've wanted to learnabout, so I haven't.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, well, you could just lick them and then see if
they're poisonous.
No, the poisons are worse thanthat, though.
Did you get high?
Or did you have an enjoyablemushroom Right, or did you die
or die?
Yes, yeah, as my husband says,everything is edible.
Just not all things aresurvivable.
So take that as a note for yourmushrooms.
(37:20):
Yeah, is there anything elsethat you'd like the audience to
know about?
Um, you your running yourpractice, um, which we'll put
the show notes?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
um, in the show notes , the website for your practice
as well if you're interested ina llama trip and you have
parkinson's uh past to pastorg?
Um, if you're interested in allama trip, uh w a llamascom and
love to have you join me on atrip.
We have a good time out there.
(37:50):
Um, and my business name ismove beyond limits.
Um, so move beyond limitscom.
If you're interested inlearning how you can become your
own guide and get yourself outof trouble with whatever you're
doing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
All right, well, that sounds great.
So hopefully everyone willcheck your site out and again
we'll put that in the show notesand thank you so much for your
wisdom and the story.
It was so fun to meet you andtalk to you today.
Yeah, nice, nice talking withyou.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
My pleasure.
Have a good day, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Thank you Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
All right.
Well, thanks for listening tothe episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Please continue to follow,share and rate the program.
If you're needing that coach,reach out to me.
There's a button in the shownotes that you can contact me
directly.
Share it with a friend.
If you think their story needsto be on the podcast, I'd love
to hear from them.
(38:52):
So thanks again and have agreat day.
Hello and welcome back to Over the Next Hill
Fitness Podcast.
I'm Carla Coffey, your coachand host for today's program.
This podcast is brought to youby Coffey Crew Coaching.
If you need a running orfitness coach, please look me up
.
I might be right for you, Imight not.
We never know until we get toknow each other a little bit.
I do offer a new client program.
(00:24):
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So if you're interested, pleasesend me an email and I'll send
(01:08):
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Otherwise you can get theregular discount.
That link is in the show notesas well.
Please continue to follow, rateand share the program.
Put some five stars down on anykind of review.
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Say you like ham sandwiches?
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(01:29):
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your posts and texts there.
Today we're talking to IrenePasternak.
Fun story.
Great, outstanding lady hassome interesting things to say
(01:52):
about llamas and hiking.
So hopefully you guys willenjoy the story and then we'll
see you at the end.
Have a great day.
Welcome to the show, irene.
It's great to have you here.
Thank you for inviting me.
Oh, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So let's start today's journey with your
running experience and how yougot started and where you went
diagnosed with early Alzheimer'sand I enrolled in a clinical
trial for a new medication,started on that medication in, I
think, august and, like anybodywith anything new that's going
(02:37):
on, you go to Dr Google and Ilearned more about the
medication called Donanumab andthe research showed that it was
most effective with people withyounger onset and I was 65.
And so that's younger forAlzheimer's and people who are
more fit and I'm an ice skater,but that isn't something that
(02:59):
gets my heart rate upcontinuously, whatever.
And I got well.
And then I got really depressed.
I mean, there's there's nothinglike a diagnosis, like three
years till you'll be on in fullon dementia to shake up your
world, and did some counselingand realized, okay, what
resources do I have internallythat I can use?
And one is well, you know Icould, I could, I could get more
(03:22):
fit if the medication is goingto be more effective if I'm more
fit.
And so I started running inJanuary 2024.
And when I started I could runabout a mile and I just
gradually, slowly, I set onegoal for myself, which is I am
going to do this injury free.
I am going to go slow enoughand steady enough that I don't
(03:43):
hurt myself.
And so I started graduallyincreasing my mileage and I
think in March I did a 5k andthen I just fell in love with it
, with running.
And I went on a family vacationwith my extended family in May
and to France, and I don't know,for me, traveling with a big
(04:05):
group of people gets a littleclaustrophobic, and so, and
since I was running and it was aflat area, I thought I'll go
exploring.
And I discovered what I nowcall tourist running, where run
as far as I can in whateverdirection, and then take public
transportation home.
Um, so that I, I and I just ranall over and really enjoyed
that and increased my distancesignificantly, because tourist
(04:27):
running, you're stopping to takepictures, you're going where am
I?
It changed my approach insteadof running with a watch to
running somewhere new.
And then I came home from thatand had gotten my mileage up, so
I signed up for a half marathon, did a half marathon and then
(04:54):
it took me a little while torecover from that and anyway, so
it's been just this journey offinding a new identity as a
runner and loving it over thelast year and then last summer I
got great news from the studyI'm in.
The study measures the level ofamyloid plaque in your brain,
which is an indicator ofAlzheimer's, and I went from a
(05:15):
level of 76, which is the 86%chance of being full-on dementia
in three years, to below 12,which is below clinically
significant.
So the medication worked for me, cleared the plaque, I'm not
having the mental challenges Iwas two years ago, and so I'm
feeling like running reallytransformed my life.
(05:36):
Along with this medication.
It gave me myself back in avery literal sense myself back.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Congratulations.
That's great numbers.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And um, and of course I had this image right.
I said I was going to go injuryfree for a year and on January
1st I did my first run with arunning club.
Usually I run by myself and I'mvery mindful of my body and
what's happening.
And I got all excited aboutrunning faster with people and
anyway, and I hurt myself andI'm just now back after healing
(06:12):
that injury.
So I've set another goal overthe rest of this year injury
free.
I got to keep my goals goingfurther into the future.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, it's hard sometimes running with a group,
especially if it's a route youdon't know and you're just
trying to keep up and yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and and, and I was feeling so good.
You know that that high of ofgoing well, I did do a run
yesterday and I don't usuallyrun.
I've been very careful to givemyself the rest days in between
and to listen to my body, thaton days that it doesn't feel
good, go slower or don't go orjust go like.
Listening is more importantthan the goals.
(06:49):
Um and uh, I overrode it and um, and I also hadn't realized how
many miles I'd racked up in theyear and I hadn't bought new
running shoes.
And so that was the otherlesson.
By new running shoes at threeor 400 miles, don't was the
other lesson.
Buy new running shoes at threeor 400 miles, don't say it's
(07:09):
fine.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But you live and learn.
But that's so incredible thatyou didn't even start running
until you're 65.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And now you've done half marathons and five days.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
And tourist running, which Ireally love.
Tourist.
Running is the real pleasureand I've decided any race I do
is going to have to be someplaceI haven't been before, just so
that there's a newness to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, so are you going to join some of the crazy
clubs like the ones that do ahalf marathon in every state and
things like that?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I doubt it.
I doubt it.
I have too much else going onin my life.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So what is your next running goal?
Do you have?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I'd like to do a marathon.
I had signed up for one inApril this year and probably
would have made it without if Ihadn't gotten hurt.
But I got hurt.
So I was thinking about thatwhen I was on my run this
morning and I think the righttiming for me will be next
spring In the summer.
And I think the right timingfor me will be next spring In
the summer.
I lead backpacking trips withllamas.
I take people with Parkinson'sand then older people and
families out into thebackcountry and the llamas carry
(08:15):
their gear.
I do the cooking and thecleaning and the guiding and the
keeping it safe for us, and soI don't get a lot of running in
in the summer because I am umhiking five days a week and I
need I need my rest days.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, for sure yeah, but that hiking is is good as
running.
That's just a um it keeps.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It definitely keeps me fit, but it's it's.
It's different than thanrunning, and different enough
that I feel like I have to hiketo get in shape for hiking and
run to get in shape for running.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Sure, I feel like I have to hike to get in shape for
hiking and run to get in shapefor running.
Sure, but the cross training isgreat, so good for you.
Now, where do you live thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
llama backpacking, I live in Seattle, washington.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Oh, wow, yeah, and they do that there.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, we take groups out into the Olympic mountains
and to the Cascades.
So some of our hikes are on thePacific Crest Trail, some are
on smaller trails near that andthen up in the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So now do you camp for that, or are there cottages?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
No, it's camping.
It's like backpacking, exceptthat you don't have to carry
your own pack.
The llamas carry it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Nice, yeah, I could get behind that.
Somebody else carry my pack.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It changes the experience.
It's like doing five day tripsin a row, except you're way out
in the back country instead ofclose to a trailhead, so you get
to see things that you wouldn'tsee otherwise.
And the experience of beingwith a group of people and that
kind of intensity is, I findthat, pure joy.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, Now how did you get involved with doing that?
And the Parkinson's how didthat all tie in?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So when I was in my 40s I switched careers and I
went back to school to become aFeldenkrais practitioner.
Feldenkrais is a kind ofmovement, education, paradigm
shift, discipline that Idiscovered when I had herniated
a disc in a bicycling accident.
Um, and it was what I used torehabilitate myself from the
(10:11):
herniated disc problem and um,it's a a four-year training.
Um, and go back a littlefurther.
My mom had parkinson's and Iwas her primary caregiver and
the two of us ran a supportgroup.
My mom had Parkinson's and Iwas her primary caregiver and
the two of us ran a supportgroup for people with
Parkinson's and she passed awayin 1999.
(10:33):
But Parkinson's is on my radarjust because of my experience
being her caregiver.
And there was a woman in one ofmy Feldenkrais trainings who
had Parkinson's and I saw whatthe Feldenkrais was doing for
her and her ability to continuefunctioning despite the disease
progression.
When I started my practice Istarted working with people with
(10:55):
Parkinson's and kind of a wayof giving back something I wish
I could have given back to mymom but didn't know about it
when she was alive, something Iwish I could have given back to
my mom but didn't know about itwhen she was alive and then.
So I'm on a Parkinson's mailinglist and I got mailing about a
program called Pass to Passwhich takes people with
(11:16):
Parkinson's on the Pacific CrestTrail on six day hikes and they
use llamas to carry the gearand they need support hikers
because you take one person withParkinson's, one person, as a
support hiker to to help ifthere's fine motor challenges of
or whatever's needed.
And so I volunteered to be asupport hiker, cause I thought
it would be fun.
I backpacked a lot when I was inmy twenties and then didn't
(11:38):
while I was raising my family,um and uh, uh.
And so I just volunteered as asupport hiker, had a wonderful
time, had such a good time.
I came back a week later andcalled them up and said do you
need any more support hikerslater in the summer?
And they did and I volunteeredagain as a support hiker.
Then they asked me to be aguide the next summer.
(11:58):
So the next summer I led twotrips for them.
Noodling around on Facebook andan older women backpacking group
, I saw an advertisement for weneed a backup llama guide for a
company and I called Jeff Fiskerat Washington Llamas and we hit
it off.
I started working for themdoing a couple trips and now
(12:19):
this summer I've got nine tripsscheduled, so it's going to be a
busy summer.
Wow, there's something aboutpartly all the llama stuff
happened at about the time thatI was beginning to notice some
cognitive challenges andbeginning to feel like, wait a
minute, this is my life.
My life is more than two thirdsover, or you know, what do I
(12:42):
want?
And so it's been this shifttoward.
How do I live in the fullest inthe moment?
One of my joys is that I have atwo-year-old granddaughter and
she loves the llama trips and Ilove getting to take her on
trips.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh, you get to take her.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
We do a friends and family trip, and then Jeff lets
me use the llamas to take myfamily out on hikes.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
So now, what's the difference between you being the
guide and you being um avolunteer?
How is that different?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So different organizations.
Pass to Pass is a nonprofit andspecifically for the focus of
taking people with Parkinson'sout on um backcountry adventures
, um and so, in that I'm avolunteer guide, uh, and to be a
guide in either one, you haveto have first aid training, you
have to have the wildernessexperience in order to keep it
safe for the group, theknowledge of how to run a group.
(13:35):
Washington Llamas is afor-profit organization and I'm
an employee.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Oh, okay, yeah, All right.
And how does that fit in withthe I can't Feldenkrais?
Yes, thank you.
Okay, say the word paradise.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Paradise.
Say the word Feldenkrais.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Feldenkrais, oh, it has the same kind of rhythm as
that.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
To say it, thank you, I just shut my practice down
for the summer and take thesummer off.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Okay, yeah, and so with the Feldenkrais, do you see
people outside of the Lamatrips for that?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, I have an office here in Bellevue, washington,
and my husband is also aFeldenkrais practitioner, and so
we have an office with twopractice rooms and a group room
for teaching classes and weteach classes there and work
with people one-on-one.
So we often get people who comein because something hurts and
(14:38):
they've tried PT and it hasn'tworked for them and they're
frustrated and they want theirlife back.
And about a third of ourclients come in and their
shoulder feels better, theirelbow or their foot, whatever it
is neck feels better andthey're happy.
And then about two thirds ofpeople go well, you know, yeah,
my shoulder feels better and nowI've always wanted to take on
(15:02):
pickleball but I was afraid ofhurting my shoulder.
Or they play pickleball andit's like, well, you fixed my
thumb which was bugging me, andnow can you help me with my knee
and then that ankle.
And people who do somethingthey're passionate about and
they want to keep getting betterat it.
Feldenkrais is an incrediblyuseful tool for building your
ability to hear what your coachsays, if you have a coach and
(15:25):
actually do it.
In ice skating, we have a jokethat the answer to everything is
bend your knees, because if youtry to do anything with stiff
legs.
It doesn't work and the, butactually being able to bend your
knees at the right time andknow how to do it Feldenkrais is
what helps people get there.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So so is it a form of mobility work or just PT?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It isn't a form of PT .
We're all working on the samebodies and have some of the same
goals between all the differentdisciplines.
We're really focused on how thebrain learns and
(16:24):
neuroplasticity and how toengage.
You can do so that when you'reout there running or ice skating
or bicycling or playingpickleball, you become your own
coach, your own trainer, becauseyou have the self-awareness.
The man who created it, mosheFeldenkrais, had a very
(16:45):
interesting background.
He grew up in Ukraine, born in1904.
Ukraine was not a good place tobe, born Jewish and experienced
many pogroms when he was just akid, as Israel's formation
against the Arabs, the British,became a judo expert, then a
(17:11):
mechanical engineer, physicist,and some of the story is he
injured his knees playing soccerand he tried to put what he
knew of judo and physics intohow can I walk with missing some
ligaments in my knee?
And it worked.
(17:32):
And then he was director ofelectronics at the Israeli army.
Other people he worked withwere like you fixed your knee,
can you help me with my shoulder?
He started exploring,experimenting and he worked
primarily with a lot of peoplewho were Holocaust survivors,
(17:53):
just as he built his owndiscipline and his goal was
restoring people to their humandignity, and so it's that self
teaching people, theself-reliance to know that they
have control.
We have control over our ownbodies.
So it's not I think of PT asoften very much strengthening
(18:21):
and flexibility, and we seeourselves more as teaching
coordination.
How do you use your whole bodyas a team so that you're not
fighting against yourself?
And so it's a very differentdiscipline.
Yeah, sure journey with it washerniated disc to leading
(18:52):
backpacking trips, to theresilience that I find from it
is wonderful and, I joke, thereason I became a practitioner.
I was a client for eight yearsbecause I kept like I want to
ride the SDP, the Seattle toPortland, the 200 mile bicycle
race, and my knees and my ankleshurt and I worked with my
practitioner to learn how tobicycle more efficiently.
And then I did it.
And then I wanted to learn howto roller skate but I couldn't
bend over enough to time myskate because of the herniated
(19:14):
disc.
Anyway, I learned oh, bodiesare supposed to fold at the hips
, not at the waist.
I was a nerd growing up.
I didn't really use my body asa kid very much a kid very much.
But I did a weekend trainingand it was an introduction to
(19:34):
becoming a Feldenkraispractitioner and there were a
lot of practitioners in their60s and 70s who had these live
and agile bodies and I so wantedone because in my 40s I did not
have that kind of relationshipwith myself and it's nice to
help other people.
But I mostly like it for theimpact it has on myself, Because
when I give a session I get asession.
It's a fun discipline.
It's much more energizing thanwhat I was doing before as a
(19:58):
technical writer.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I would say yeah.
And how does that fit in?
Or does it fit in with theParkinson people?
Does that help?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
them.
I have a contract withNorthwest Parkinson's Foundation
and I teach a few classes aweek for them.
I started during the pandemicdoing that and it's kept going.
So I teach a Feldenkrais class,which is the movement, a lot
about balance and how do you, asParkinson's nibbles away at
(20:31):
people's ability to move,learning how to use their body
better?
There's room for everybody,there's room to improve how we
move and it helps peoplefunction better.
And then I also teach twodifferent kinds of dance classes
for them.
I'm a Nia instructor and anAgeless Grace instructor, and so
(20:53):
those are both seated.
I teach seated exercise classes.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh fun.
Yeah, I wondered you hadmentioned about teaching dance
classes.
That was going to be one of myquestions.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So it's seated dance so it's seated dance.
Uh, for, for the northwestparkinson's foundation I found,
um, about half of my studentscan't do a standing dance class.
It's too much, uh, too much,too fast for their balance.
But there's lots we can doseated, and so it's sometimes I
try to teach both, but that'sjust a little too hard to try to
teach both at the same time.
(21:24):
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, like patting your head and rubbing your tummy
.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And, and and and.
The dance I teach Nia is isvery sensory based, and I need
to be able to be sensing what'sin my body in order to give the
cues to the people who I'mworking with, and so if I'm
doing the same thing, it'seasier than if I'm doing
something different, easier thanif I'm doing something
different.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Sure, yeah, yeah, I in the past, long ago past, like
40 years ago, past I taughtstep aerobics and I faced the
group, so I had to tell them theopposite.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, teaching online is verymuch that and it's gotten to me,
so I now reverse it.
I was never very good at leftand right and now I'm horrible
at it because of the reversing.
So I usually, when I'm teachingin this room, it's like use
your bookcase arm.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That arm.
Yeah, so you get where I wasgoing with that.
That's really hard.
It is.
(22:42):
It really is hard to move yourright hand and say move your
left hand.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, and now I probably have finally learned
my left and right, because Idon't teach that anymore.
So I know what you're sayingwith that being hard for you.
Now, how has the taking a fewmonths off from running to heal
my foot?
I managed to hide all myrunning gear and I hid my
running vest where I keep mycell phone with.
(23:09):
What if I hold it so like I waslooking at it?
What if I hold it upside down?
What if I hold it this way?
What if I hold it that way?
How does that change how I run?
And I was just playing with thatfor a quarter mile or less and
checking in with how springy Ifeel on each step and checking
in with that sore spot on myfoot and how does it feel when I
do something different.
So it's experimenting like thatis how it changes my running.
(23:34):
And there's a woman named JayGrunke, who would be a great
person for you to interview, whoruns a company called the
Balanced Runner and she offersrunning camps using the
Feldenkrais method and runningvideo analysis.
She always puts out wonderfulvideos after each major running
(23:55):
competition in the olympics andanalyzing everybody's form and
anyway she's.
I've learned a lot from heryeah, very cool yeah, but it's.
it's that ability to play whenI'm out there, not just put my
headphones on and listen to abook.
That's when I can get myself introuble.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely, I know I'malways watching for potholes,
but even though I have a book onyou really still have to pay
attention.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's the paying attention to my body of like do
I feel springy or not?
Does my foot hurt?
I have, I have the, the usualvarious aches and pains that
that people, you know, we, weall accumulate from our history
of injuries or whatever.
And um, I kind of check in witheach one and then I vary a few
things.
And the way our brains work isif there are more than two
(24:48):
choices, if there's like threeor four or five ways to do it
and your body can sense that itfeels different, your brain will
choose the best one.
But if your brain doesn'trealize you have a choice
because you're doing it the sameway you've always done it, then
you're going to do it the sameway you've always done it and
that can lead to repetitive useinjuries.
So it's the creativity to addvariation in and to the anatomy
(25:10):
knowledge to know what are someanatomical places that if I
introduce variation I'm likelyto get better results from it.
So that's what I'm doing whenI'm running.
And then, of course, having ahusband as a live-in
practitioner is very handy sothat if I have a question,
sometimes it's hard to observeoneself and I come home and say,
(25:32):
hey, can we do someexplorations around X and we'll
play with it.
That's great it's changing theparadigm to.
I'm stuck with this too.
I can do something about it andthat, um, you know, I think
that's an attitude in life thatI got through the, the, the
(25:52):
feldenkrais work, and it helpedwith the.
I'm feeling like my mind is isnot working right.
Um, and then looking around andwhat are my options for getting
help and being able to get intoa clinical study and get thank
God, got into one that had noplacebo and it was a dosing
study of does it work better ifit's twice a month or once a
month for the infusions for it?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
And yeah, so now you're not on that medicine and
you're still great.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Now my brain, my body , because is now trained to, if
plaque builds up, to dissolve itor to break it up.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So how did they test you for that?
Or did you feel like somethingwas wrong and then you got
tested?
What was that?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
like I was finding myself doing strange things,
like going to pay for somethingand handing the clerk my car
keys, or going in the morning toget an apple out of the clerk
my car keys, or going in themorning to get an apple out of
the fridge when I'd been groceryshopping the day before and
finding who put the apples inthe freezer and so like weird
stuff and a little bit oftrouble finding nouns and all my
(26:56):
friends who are my age andolder it's like, oh yeah, this
is just aging.
And it's like, oh, this justdoesn't feel quite right.
And so they were looking forpeople for this study, for
people who were not diagnosed,and it was only through the
(27:17):
study that I got the diagnosis.
So in the study they did bloodtests and MRIs, but the PET scan
is the definitive one formeasuring amyloid plaque level.
And then part of the study theywere correlating blood proteins
with amyloid plaque levelbecause they're trying to
develop the blood tests, becausethat's a lot less expensive for
(27:37):
screening than the PET scan.
But the PET scan is better thanthe autopsy, which before that
was the only way to find out ifpeople had amyloid plaque Right.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Wow, I mean, you've come a long way from all that.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
The last couple of years have been a change from
life shrinking to happier,because I'm doing what's more
important to me.
I reorganized my schedule so Icould spend a whole day a week
with my granddaughter, and oneof the things I was saddest
about with the diagnosis of,she's not going to know me as me
.
I have that memory of my owngrandmother with Alzheimer's and
(28:20):
then my mother with dementiaand my kids and a lot of sadness
there and it's like, okay, howcan I build the time I do have
and doing a photo journey withher and making up a box of books
of like my favorites that Iwant to hand to her when she's
(28:42):
10, and and and and reading, andand being with her is just one
of the joys of of of of my liferight now, and so it's it's
living more intentionally andrunning it.
Running has been a big part ofit.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And now you may not have.
You can push that off for along time now, Maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
The research.
The drug is new enough thatsome of the studies say it just
slows things down by nine monthsor so, and some of that it's
like a permanent change in yourbody.
And there's still research thatgoes.
Is amyloid plaque really theonly thing that's causing the
dementia?
Is it just a symptom ofsomething else that's going on?
And if this just gets rid ofthe plaque and it doesn't get to
(29:26):
the root cause, there's a lotof unknowns in the Alzheimer's
research.
I'm hoping to get into anotherfollow-on study so that I can
continue to get measured,because the PET scans are really
expensive and hard to.
What I found is that theprimary care physicians are not
caught up to the currentresearch, and even when I was
(29:51):
having challenges, I was stillpretty functional in a lot of
ways, and so there was no don'tworry about it, wait till it
gets worse.
And that's just the wrongresponse Now that there are
drugs that the earlier you geton them, the more effective they
are.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's really sad that that's their
attitude.
Oh, just wait until it getsworse.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
No, Well it's.
It's it's when, when you don'thave a tool, that's really all
you can do, but when there aretools that can help.
Um and like with Parkinson'sresearch, one of the most
fascinating things in theresearch is that every day a
week you exercise multiplies thequality of your life by the
(30:31):
same amount.
It's like exercising once isgood, exercising seven times is
a lot better.
And those are things you can dowhen you have it.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So does the Feldenkrais help other types of
maladies like multisclerosis orthose who have had a stroke and
have limited use?
Does that help that type ofthing?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yes, yeah, and one of my first clients who had a
stroke she was young when shehad her stroke in her late 50s
and spent a year learning how towalk again came into me a
couple of years later and shewas back, working back,
functional, but awkward Um, andI worked with her on her balance
(31:26):
and, uh, she was able to go iceskating with her grandson again
which she was really excitedabout and ride a bicycle.
But she said the thing thatreally made her realize how much
better she was was when shewent into her stroke support
group.
Wearing high heels was allanybody wanted to ask about.
Is what do you mean?
You can wear high heels again,so it can be very helpful.
(31:46):
We've worked with one littlegirl who had a stroke in utero
and an anoxic event that tookout the part of the brain that
controls movement and she camein at nine months old, not able
to roll over, reach a hand up orwhatever, and she's now
mainstreamed in, got tocalculate the years, middle
(32:09):
school.
But the earlier we get tosomebody, the more effective we
can be.
So when we work with littlekids who have had an anoxic
event, we do a lot with specialneeds kids the sooner we get to
them, the less damage thathappens.
(32:30):
Um, we've worked with peoplewith heart conditions um, and
prevented surgery on one littleboy.
He'd had open heart surgerytwice for um congenital heart
challenges.
He came to us at four and hewas turning blue, was scheduled
for his next surgery.
We worked with him to get hisribs to expand and contract
(32:51):
properly, because after heartsurgery when you've been cut and
sewed back together you tend tobe protective of your chest and
not being able to get that fullvolume.
Anyway, he went into the doctorand the doctor for his next
appointment is like something'schanged and so that was.
That was one one real successstory.
It's also fun working.
(33:13):
One of my clients now is in herchurch choir and helping her to
.
She came in because of footproblems but now we work on how
to get her voice to be even moreexpressive, because vocal cords
are just another set of muscles.
They can be worked on the sameway as anything else with it.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
So yeah, that's very rewarding, I bet.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It is very fun work.
It's fun work.
I bet it is very fun work.
It's fun work.
Sometimes it's frustrating tobe in a discipline that isn't
well-known and isn't covered byinsurance, because then it's
like, how do I find ways to getit to people that I can make a
living from and they can afford?
And so that's what I love itwhen places like Northwest
(34:02):
Parkinson's Foundation hire meso that I can do group classes
and the people who need it don'thave to.
It's not a risk to trysomething new, it's just a free
option that they can do.
Yeah that's great.
And then anybody who's watchingthis has Parkinson's.
Nwpforg is where you can findinformation about my classes.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, and those listening as well, feel free,
and we'll put that in the shownotes too, so that people can
get the direct link to you thatway.
So you've got now a marathonnext spring.
Did you just defer the one thatyou were unable to do for April
?
I?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
think I'll run a 10K.
I can change my time in thisone, my distance yeah, and
that's local.
That's local.
It's about half an hour away ina city called Everett.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Okay, yeah, I've heard of Everett, and so then,
what else?
After the 10K, before themarathon?
Anything besides all yourbackpacking?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
That'll be my summer hiking season, and so anything I
can do to maintain during thesummer is good.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, and how long is your season of hiking?
From what month to what month?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
My first trip is in May.
My last trip is in September.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh, wow, yeah, and you do five a week.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You said I'm doing nine trips, so it's about three
a month during the summer.
Some of them are two day, someare four day, some are five days
, one six day.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And even if it rains, it doesn't matter, you guys are
still hiking.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Oh, of course.
Yeah, uh, fires are the biggestthing that interferes.
Sometimes we have to reroutedepending on fire season, which
has gotten worse.
I took my.
One of the trips with mygranddaughter was really fun
because she really likesmushrooms.
She's just fascinated bymushrooms and she's not allowed
to touch them because there'ssome poisonous ones.
But she pokes them with a stickand so she just walked around
(35:54):
poking every little mushroom andit rained about an inch one
night and we had all the gearpiled up on the high spot and
the big tarp and we're all justall the grownups are trying not
to whine and she's just pokingmushrooms and having so much fun
that the rest of us had tobehave and have a good time.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
That sounds like a blast.
I would love to do that.
I would actually just like togo with her and watch her poke
mushrooms.
I think is really what.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I'd want to announced .
Her parents know which ones aresafe.
So we ate a lot of mushrooms onthat trip too, so that was fun.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh really, wow, yeah, that's, that's no.
I know in our area I live inWisconsin and I'm originally
from Michigan and in Michiganand Wisconsin, morels are a big
deal Do they have those there?
Yes, yeah, Okay, so that'sprobably.
I don't know if you eat thoseraw.
I don't know that I've ever hadthem, but I know they're pretty
(36:48):
good.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I don't know.
I never.
When there's somebody who'svery confident in their knowing
which mushrooms are good, I'lleat them, but that's not
something I've wanted to learnabout, so I haven't.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, well, you could just lick them and then see if
they're poisonous.
No, the poisons are worse thanthat, though.
Did you get high?
Or did you have an enjoyablemushroom Right, or did you die
or die?
Yes, yeah, as my husband says,everything is edible.
Just not all things aresurvivable.
So take that as a note for yourmushrooms.
(37:20):
Yeah, is there anything elsethat you'd like the audience to
know about?
Um, you your running yourpractice, um, which we'll put
the show notes?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
um, in the show notes , the website for your practice
as well if you're interested ina llama trip and you have
parkinson's uh past to pastorg?
Um, if you're interested in allama trip, uh w a llamascom and
love to have you join me on atrip.
We have a good time out there.
(37:50):
Um, and my business name ismove beyond limits.
Um, so move beyond limitscom.
If you're interested inlearning how you can become your
own guide and get yourself outof trouble with whatever you're
doing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
All right, well, that sounds great.
So hopefully everyone willcheck your site out and again
we'll put that in the show notesand thank you so much for your
wisdom and the story.
It was so fun to meet you andtalk to you today.
Yeah, nice, nice talking withyou.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
My pleasure.
Have a good day, bye, bye.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Thank you Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
All right.
Well, thanks for listening tothe episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Please continue to follow,share and rate the program.
If you're needing that coach,reach out to me.
There's a button in the shownotes that you can contact me
directly.
Share it with a friend.
If you think their story needsto be on the podcast, I'd love
to hear from them.
(38:52):
So thanks again and have agreat day.
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