October 2, 2024 • 32 mins
In today's episode of Permission to Flow, we dive deep into the intricate struggles first- and second-generation women face when transitioning from traditional, "safe" corporate jobs to more creative and fulfilling careers. Host Jessica Hwang, a second-generation Taiwanese American, shares her personal journey—from enduring societal and familial pressures to achieving financial stability as a corporate finance professional before ultimately finding her true calling as a career transition coach and podcaster.
Jessica illuminates the weight of responsibility immigrant children often carry, feeling obligated to honor their parents’ sacrifices by conforming to culturally prescribed career paths like medicine, law, or business. She passionately discusses the themes of responsibility, sacrifice, and failure, urging listeners to redefine success on their own terms. Through her experience and wisdom, Jessica empowers listeners to balance personal happiness with family obligations and breaks down the notion that one must choose between stability and pursuing their passions.
For those ready to take the next step in their career transitions, Jessica invites listeners to join her for three months of private coaching, tailored specifically to their individual circumstances and challenges. You can schedule a free consultation through her website at https://jessicahwangcoaching.com/private-coaching. Remember, you have the power to create a life that honors both your family’s sacrifices and your own happiness.
Topics discussed in this episode include:
00:00:00 Intro
05:47:20 Thoughts on Responsibility
14:48:18 Thoughts on Sacrifice
21:11:22 Thoughts on Failure
Quotes from the episode:
"To me, it's like my parents moved here for a better life for me and my brother. And the real way to honor that is really to create a better life, right? Not to just be miserable, not to be burned out, not to be really struggling every single day. That is not the dream."
"There are plenty of jobs that actually can give you the space that you are able to pursue what you really want to do and maintain that stability."
Connect with Jessica:
Instagram: @jessicahwangcoaching
Facebook: Jessica Hwang Coaching
Website: Jessica Hwang Coaching
Credits:
Music co-written by Steven Murillo (@someoneinatreeband) & Jessica Hwang (@jessicahwangcoaching)
Production and audio engineering by Travis Carr (@traviscarrphoto)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Their sacrifice.
(00:00):
It was following that prescribed list.
And I think many of us fall into this.
You know, it'slike we are the good immigrant kid, right?
It's like you want to make surethat you're doing the right thing
of of living up to the level of sacrificethat your parents made.
And so the way that we've been, we'veconditioned ourselves to live up to
(00:23):
that sacrifice is to abide by those rules,
abide by that little box ofwhat is the right career.
And and so I think it's interestingbecause in essence,
we are honoring their sacrificewith another sacrifice.
And and I think that this is somethingto really realize, right?
(00:44):
Like you're sacrificing
your happiness, your well-being,in order to honor another sacrifice.
And and to me,that is not what this is all about, right?
Like, I think part of what helped mereally leave behind my job in finance
was really going, this isn't actuallyhonoring my parents sacrifice.
(01:08):
Welcome to Permission to Follow.
This podcast is dedicatedto lighting the way towards
greatercreativity, purpose and inner peace.
I'm your host, Jessica Huang.
I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
I spent ten yearschasing the so-called American Dream
(01:28):
while working in corporate finance,before making the pivot into my own path
as a career transition coach, podcaster,and Dharma yoga instructor.
Through a combination of courageand curiosity, I built a career and life
that is aligned with my unique talentsand authentic self.
(01:48):
Now I'm on a mission to helpfirst and second generation women
leave behind the corporate grindand pivot to a creative career.
Whether you want to be an artist, writer,yoga instructor, entrepreneur,
or any other creative venture,it's time to give yourself permission
to flow, exploreand create the life that you want.
(02:11):
The world needs what you will create.
Now let's dive in to today's show.
Did you grow up in an immigrant householdand were told
that you had to be a doctor,a lawyer in business, or a failure?
Hi, I'm Jessica Huang,your career transition
(02:32):
coach,and welcome to Permission to Follow.
And in this episode, we are going to talkall about the immigrant mentality
and how it presentscertain specific challenges
that prevent us from pursuing our passionor purpose.
And instead, we're kind of stuckin this prescribed list of good careers.
(02:53):
Really quick to tell youa little bit of my own background.
So I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
My parents, grew up and,
met in Taiwanbefore immigrating here in their 20s.
And, and I will tell you that their story
is definitelythat typical immigrant struggle story.
My parents came herewith about $1,000 in their pocket,
(03:16):
and they landed here in New York City.
Not that far from where I live, actually.
But let's be clear.
Their apartment is not like my apartment.
They were living in a roachinfested New York City apartment,
and from the stories my dad would tell me,
he would wake up in the night,turn on the light,
(03:37):
and he would see all the roaches,like, scurrying into the corners.
And my dad had to workin a convenience store
because he couldn't get a job.
Even though he was,like, highly educated and
and so he ended up going back to school,actually,
and getting his master's degreein order to work in chemistry.
(03:59):
And my mom worked as a secretary,which is considered a really good job
given the circumstances.
And my mom really climbed her waythrough, her career
working at the Port Authority and, you know, and I see my parents as someone,
as people who did really kind of live outthe American dream, you know, they
are they both worked really long careers.
(04:22):
And they're, in their professions
and really climbed up that ladder,if you will.
And, and so that is the,
the backdrop of whatI'm going to talk about today.
And so we're going to talk a little bitabout this immigrant mentality.
You know, this idea where it's likecoming to a different country.
(04:43):
It causes us to have a lotof these thoughts around
really needing to prioritize, financial security,
job stability, and,and really building a foundation.
If you think about Maslow'shierarchy of needs, it is so focused
on developing that base levelof the hierarchy of needs, of really
(05:05):
making sure we can put food on the table,have a roof over our heads.
Right.
Like those really basic human needs,become the priority
and the focal point of how we decidewhat career we choose.
How we makeour decisions comes from this standpoint
of needing to establish ourselves,establish
(05:26):
a foundation in the countryin which we've immigrated to.
And and so I will say for myself,and perhaps you relate
as a child of immigrantsis this idea that I've really carrying
over a lot of this immigrant mentalityin the decisions that we're making,
and today we're going to talk a little bit
about how to kind of breakfree of those challenges.
(05:47):
And so we're going to talk about threemain ideas.
The first one is talkingabout responsibility.
And the second oneis really focused on sacrifice.
And the third we're going to talk aboutthat big bad word
of failure okay.
So let's dive in to today's show.
So the first thing I want to talk aboutis responsibility.
(06:11):
And when I think about responsibilitythis often really weighs heavily,
on first and second gen,because of this idea
that, like, we need to make surethat we're taking care of everyone, right?
And especially, you know,so many people I know are sending money
back to their familyor taking care of parents
(06:32):
or taking care of siblings or whateverthe case may be.
There's this level of responsibilityof needing to make sure that you are,
that you're making good decisions
in order to make surethat you can take care of others.
And, you know, I see this come up so muchand so many of my clients and,
and how it's it keeps usfrom even thinking
(06:55):
that we can toe dip outside of the linesbecause there's a certain level
of risk averse, nature in the immigrant mentality.
Right?
There's this idea that, like,we need to make safe decisions in order
to not only keep ourselves safe, butkeep all of those people around us safe.
Right.
(07:15):
And so this level of responsibility
can be, like a very heavy weight,quite frankly.
That can keep you in that idea of
I can only do this prescribed list
and, and to take a step back, it's like,why is that the prescribed list?
Right.
This doctor, lawyer, you couldthrow in business engineer, pharmacist.
(07:38):
Right.
Like this prescribed list of, like,good careers that have been designated as,
the thing that that our immigrant parentshave, like, pushed us towards
or whatever the case may be.
And and so it's like it becomes that waybecause these are jobs
that we consider to be safe. Right?
Like they're jobs where it's like,oh, well,
if you do this job, you're going to getthis kind of salary and also
(08:00):
there's this expectationlike it'll be safe, right.
And I want to remindyou also that, especially
for the children of immigrants,where it's like our parents generation
lived in a very different timethan what we are living in today.
Job security was a completely different
animal than than what we're experiencingin today's climate.
(08:21):
Right?
It was very normalfor people like my parents both worked
in their companies for 25, 30 yearplus years.
Right. And and that was normal.
And and people had pensionsand people had these things
that kind of wherethere was a certain level of like,
I don't know, guarantee of,like if you got into the right company,
(08:43):
if you got into the right space, like,
you could do this forthe rest of your life and, and have that,
that security, that stabilitythat, that we're looking for and,
and it's interestingis at least in the corporate lens where I,
I feel like that is a little bitof a fallacy these days,
but that that is kind of the pretenseof what why that list became the list,
(09:05):
right, of why it became like,oh, this is where our, our children,
the type of career is that, thatthey should pursue because they're safe.
And, and so it's interesting like thatprescribed list
and, and so again,going back to this idea of responsibility.
Right.
Like that's why, we've been pushingthis direction and, and we believe
(09:26):
that it is our responsibility to make surethat we are doing the right thing
of taking the safer choice,the safer choice, in order
to make sure that we can take careof, of the people around us.
And and so what?
How do we really break free of this idea?
(09:46):
And, and to me,the main thing to think about is that
I think we can get trappedin a kind of all or nothing mentality
where we believe that in orderthat it's like one or the other.
Right?
It's like eitheryou 100% are in your stable job
or you are 100%pursuing your purpose or passion.
(10:07):
And and I think that a really good thingto remember is like,
it doesn't have to look this way.
And yes, some people do end upgoing in that direction.
Myself included.
But I have seen through my clients,through people around me,
so many incredible examples of peoplewho are able to,
to, to move into thetheir purpose or passion and still
(10:31):
hold on to making sure that they are ableto provide for the people in their lives.
It's interesting because I think thatthere's certain kinds of creatives where
it's become almost normalized that you,that you, you hold space for both, right?
Like I think of actors, you know, I'min New York City, there's so many actors.
And I remember I go to my chiropractorand a lot of the people that were working
(10:54):
there were actually on Broadway,which was so interesting.
Right?
But it was because thethe Chiropractor's office
actually had,the certain kind of environment
that allowed them to go on their auditionsand have a little bit of the flexibility
so that they could still pursue, Broadway shows
or acting gigs or whatever, and be ableto have the stability of this kind of job.
(11:18):
You know, there's plenty of people workingin cafes or whatever the case may be.
But I want you to imagine it's like,how can you then cater that to you
so it doesn't have to be workingin a doctor's office
like you can do itin, a 9 to 5 corporate job.
You can do itin, in so many different places.
And it's really about finding the rightfit of a job
(11:41):
that is able to support youas you build up your purpose
or your passion, whatever the case may be,and have that stability
that you need to have.
And, you know, I think back towhen I worked for Coca-Cola,
for instance,which is a huge, big corporation.
And that job, like larger corporations,I think it
(12:04):
it does actually allow you to be like, oh,this is strictly more like a 9 to 5 job,
you know, versussome, like, startups and smaller spaces
where it's like your hours can beit can end up being a little more fluid.
This is one way to put it.
But, you know, there are plenty of jobs
(12:24):
that actually can give you the spacethat you are able to pursue
what you really want to do and maintainthat stability and and so it's like,
I like to think of it as like,if you're sitting out there right now
and you're like, oh, actually,my job is typically like a 9 to 5,
and I have all this outsidetime outside of that and the space for it
(12:48):
that I can pursue something elselike that is a gold mine.
And and it's funnybecause I did not see it when I was
in those circumstances at the time.
And now I'm like,oh, like that would have been a great time
to pursue something elseoutside of my 9 to 5.
I just want to normalize this ideawhere it's like,
we can hold space for both,and it can look in so many different ways.
(13:09):
Maybe it's a part time job,like there doesn't need to be
this kind of all or nothing mentality of
if I'm in my regular, stable career,
like I'm not allowed to goafter the thing that I really want to
do, it's actually allowing ourselvesto hold space for both.
The last thing I want to sayis that at the end of the day,
(13:31):
I want you to realize that you are going
to take care of your family,and that is not going to go away
just because you've decidedto pursue your passion or purpose.
I think that there can be a little bitof this doubt of saying like, oh,
if I move in this direction,like I'm going to like fall off with this,
(13:52):
these other things, and it's like,
I want you to put back the confidencein yourself
that like, are you at the end of the dayare going to make sure that's going to be
okay, right, like, and,and making decisions from that standpoint.
And that is okay.
Like you're allowed to go like the only,you know like I get to do both.
Right.
Like I get to move in the direction ofwhat holds true meaning and purpose to me.
(14:17):
And of course, I'm going to make surethat I am taking care of myself.
I'm taking care of my familyand whatever the case may be.
So holding space for all of that,is, is really important.
And and you're you're not going toyou're not going to suddenly go like, oh,
I'm not going to take care of everyone.
Like, of course you're going to take careof everyone like that.
(14:37):
That is allowed to still be a part of youwhile you are pursuing
the thing that youthat is really meant for you.
Okay, so now that we've talkedabout responsibility,
let's move on and talk about sacrifice.
And this one definitely, I, I remember
feeling this one a lot,when I was switching careers.
(14:59):
And, you know,because I think that there is
a lot of this idea where your parentshave sacrificed so much.
Right?
I think back to when I was growing upand my parents were gone from
basically 630, 7:00 in the morning
until like seven, 8:00 at night
because they had long commutes and they,they worked so hard.
(15:22):
And, to really take care of me and mybrother, like, they they were definitely,
there was just so much sacrifice
and I, I remember seeing that in them
and, and so for me,
it was I kind of took on this levelof responsibility, right?
(15:43):
This level of responsibilitythat I needed to honor their sacrifice.
And in my mind,in order to honor their sacrifice.
It was following that prescribed list.
And I think many of us fall into this,you know, it's like
we are the good immigrant kid, right?
It's like you want to make surethat you're doing the right thing
(16:05):
of of living up to the level of sacrificethat your parents made.
And so the way that we've been, we'veconditioned ourselves to live up to
that sacrifice is to abide by those rules,
abide by that little box ofwhat is the right career.
And and so I think it's interestingbecause in essence,
(16:28):
we are honoring their sacrificewith another sacrifice.
And and I think that this is somethingto really realize.
Right.
Like you're sacrificing your happiness, your well-being,
in order to honor another sacrifice.
And and to me,that is not what this is all about.
Right?
Like, I think part of what helped mereally leave behind my job in finance
(16:51):
was really going, this isn't actually
honoring my parents sacrifice.
And, you know, I think I wasit was very fortunate that I had
I have a very close relationshipwith my mother,
and she maybe she's listening to this, but
she really was sitting there
(17:12):
going like,what was really listening to me?
You know, tell her about how miserableI was.
You know, and especiallyas I was going through burnout,
especially in those really,really hard times, it was like
she was watching me go,oh, but I got to be resilient.
So I got to be good.
I got to do the right thing, like staythe path.
(17:35):
And I was trying so hard to honor
her sacrifice and go, I'mgoing to be the good kid.
I'm going to climb the corporate ladderlike I'm doing the right thing
to honor you.
And my mother was just like,but I also want you to be happy, you know?
And and I think hearing that and talkingto her about it so many times since then,
(17:56):
it's like reminding yourself, likeyour parents also want you to be happy.
You know, your parents, they sacrificedto give you a better life, not for you
to be miserable and unhappy
like thatis not actually honoring their sacrifice.
I will tell you.
Like, right now, it's like I feel likeI am honoring my parents sacrifice
(18:20):
and and able to really live out
that kind of prescribed American dreamand such a better, more profound way
because I am building a life that makes mehappy and I'm building a life
that gives me peace and I am buildingand I mean especially to me,
like I'm building a life where I'm like,I really want to help other people.
(18:41):
Like, I really want to pay it forward.
And and so being in my purpose
and being able to pursue
the thing that really feels right to me,
that feels like my calling in life,
I truly, fundamentally believe that
that is meactually honoring their sacrifice,
(19:04):
and that is me actually living outthe real American dream for them.
And it's interesting me,because I think that
we have created this box aroundwhat is the American dream.
And, you know, if you are listeningto this somewhere outside of America,
I think the same ideakind of is pervasive, right?
This idea of like you,
(19:25):
you move somewhere
else in the pursuitof, of a better life, right?
In many regards.
And so to me, it's like my parentsmoved here for a better life
for me and my brotherand the real way to honor
that is really to createa better life, right?
Not to just be miserable,not to be, burned out, not to be,
(19:46):
really struggling every single day likethat is not the dream.
And and the fact that we havewe have kind of twisted
the American dream in terms of like,really all like, all we're committed
is to have like a good, stablejob and money coming in regularly.
And that is the dream.
(20:07):
And but I'm absolutely miserable like,that is not it's it's unfortunate
because we, we were fed that
that pursuing these thingswas going to make us happy.
And and that just
has not been the casefor many people, myself included.
(20:29):
And so, if this is resonating with you,then I hope you are also seeing the fact
that, like, you'rethe real American dream is building
is really being ableto pursue your purpose or your passion.
So I think it's really important to,to really question, like,
what does it mean to honor that sacrifice.
And, and it's about so much morethan just doing what you're told
(20:54):
and pursuing the right careerand being on that prescribed list.
And so it's,
living outside of that box is
actually allowing youto really honor their sacrifice.
Okay, so now that we have talkedabout responsibility
and sacrifice, let'stalk about the big bad word of failure.
(21:15):
This one I'm going to talk about itin two regards.
So the first one that I want to talk aboutis how failure wasn't really an option.
And and I think this is so muchso ingrained in the immigrant mentality.
Right.
Is this idea that like failure is notan option, like we need to be successful.
We need to establish that foundation.
You know, I mentioned this whole ideaof Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
(21:39):
Like we've been so fixatedon that bottom tier,
that bottom tier of just like the basehuman needs having a roof
over our heads, having food on the table,like those things we've decided
are like the only thing that,that we have been focused on.
And it's like that ability to go beyond
(21:59):
that is what really is pursuingthe dream, right?
Is being able to move up the ladderand not be so fixated on this bottom tier.
And, you know, and as I said, it'slike we're going to make sure that we are
keeping food on the table,that we are keeping a roof over our heads.
And it's like, but what if we giveourselves permission to move beyond that?
(22:21):
And, and along those lines, like,one thing that I was thinking about is how
I heard I've heard this so many timesin like, different personal development
spaces of this idea of being ableto, like, fail fast and excel faster.
Right?
And so it's like having that, that,having a different relationship
with failure.
And so it's, it'sallowing ourselves to fail, quote unquote.
(22:45):
And, and like learn from that failureand move forward and, and keep going.
And, and I think aboutwhen I heard about this idea, I was like,
I do not understandlike this does not compute for me.
And because for me it was like,no, we're not allowed to fail.
Like we have to go with a safe choice.
Like we can't move outside of that.
(23:07):
And and so I think it's really powerfulof this idea of saying like, oh, actually,
I want to be able to experimentand play around and fail.
Like, really,none of these are real failures, right?
Like to me, like nothing is a failureif I have learned from it.
Like that is my perspective on failure.
And so in essence,
like I don't think that anything actuallyis really, truly a failure
(23:30):
because it's like every single experiencethat we go through, we learn from them
and, and we,we do better next time. Right?
And so it's interesting because this issomething that I've had to adapt over time
because before I was like,oh no, we don't want to fail.
Like that's not allowed.
And and so I think it's really powerfulfor us to redefine
(23:52):
what is failure and, and redefinewhat is success.
Right.
And so from the failure standpoint, it's
being able to saylike nothing is a failure.
Like I'm allowed to try things onand test things out
and and learn from it and growand keep adapting and moving forward.
And then on the other side ofthat is is like, what is success?
(24:13):
And I was having such a great conversationwith my best friend recently.
And through our conversation,I was like, you know, what it is?
Is that success is really being ableto have options.
Success is really being able to experiment
like that in and of itself is success
because we've defined success as like, oh,getting that next promotion
(24:37):
of moving up that ladder likethat is what success has meant.
But actually the reality is, is successis being able to explore and move beyond
this prescribed listthat, in essence, is already a success.
That is my definition at the very least.
And so to me, it's like being able to saythat the American dream
(25:01):
is actually being able to movebeyond that base level of like this
prescribed list of jobs and this lowesttier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
And being able to pursue beyond that.
That is what true successes.
The other side of failurethat I want to talk about is this idea
that like we've in essence said, okay,if I'm not doing the doctor
(25:26):
lawyer business thing,the only other option is failure.
Like even pursuinganything outside of that
is seen as like,not good enough as a as failure.
Right.
And, and I think so much of likehow at least in my culture,
I don't know about yours,but I, I think about how it's like, oh,
my parents have really enjoyed being ableto go to my aunts and uncles and go like,
(25:50):
oh, well, Jessica's in finance and,you know, making this money
and getting this promotion or whateverthe case may be, right?
Like, it was likeit made my parents proud of me.
And that was somethingthat was really important to me,
is making them proud,making our parents proud
and this one particular way,and as far as it comes to parents,
(26:10):
I think it's really important to rememberthat your parents might not see it,
they might not understand.
But at the end of the day,you are actually fulfilling that dream.
For them.
You are a success,even if they can't see it
like that doesn'tchange the reality of it.
And I, you know,
as I mentioned, like we are redefiningwhat that American dream is.
(26:33):
We are redefining what success is in
as as the ability
to pursue our purposeor passion like that is the dream.
So yeah, I just want to remind you that
there's so much beyondwhat we have considered a failure.
(26:54):
And actually what we thought wasa failure is actually a success.
And so I think it's it's really importantfor us to, to really look at how
we've been defining failure and successand be able to define it on our own terms.
You know, there's I like to remember thatthere is no real right path.
(27:14):
There is just the right path for you and
and so I want you to remind yourselflike you are,
I want you to remind yourself that, like,you can give yourself permission
to move beyond that limited,
that limited frameworkthat was given to you.
And, and that is actually creatingmore success
(27:36):
than what your original definitionthat was giving you.
Okay.
So so in today's episode,we have covered off on
responsibility, sacrifice and failure.
So with responsibility, it's all aboutinstead of thinking like, oh,
I have to limit myselfin order to be responsible, it is instead
moving beyond that all or nothingmentality and are allowing ourselves
(28:00):
to to pursue our passionor purpose alongside of being responsible
and taking care of ourselvesand our family with sacrifice.
It's all about asking yourselfthe question of
what does it really mean to honoryour parents sacrifice?
Is it all about
being the good kid and having the good jobwhile being miserable?
(28:23):
Or is it actually about allowing yourselfthe freedom of options and choice
and and being able to build a lifethat you actually want?
Which waydo you want to honor their sacrifice?
And lastly, in terms of failure,what if nothing is truly a failure?
What if they're all just lessons?
(28:43):
And what if it is not a failure
to move beyond that short prescribed list?
And instead a real, true success
is giving yourselfthe freedom of having options.
So I hope this is helpful.
You know, part of the reasonwhy this has become so important to me,
(29:04):
and why I'm even talking about this today,is, you know,
I think about the little girl that I waswhen I, when I was growing up
and how it was likeI didn't really see myself in
in spaces outside of that prescribed list.
You know, the the media certainly didn'treflect people that looked like me
(29:24):
and, and I, I grew up kind of feeling outof place and, and that I didn't belong.
And, you know, I see thatthere are so many strides being made today
in terms of representationin so much in, in different spaces.
But so much of why I do
the work that I do isI want to see a world where it's like
(29:48):
there are more people who look like meand more immigrants
who are able to bein all different kinds of spaces.
And to me, when I think ofwhy do I say creative careers,
it's really anything outsideof that traditional box.
You know, it's it'sit is the artists and actors
and models or whatever the case may be.
(30:09):
It's also entrepreneurs,the wellness spaces, yoga instructor.
It's like all of these different thingshave felt kind of out of bounds, right?
Like it felt likethese are not the good careers, right?
These are failures.
If we move art outside of that box,and I want to live in a world
where it's like I seepeople pursuing all kinds of things
(30:33):
and and not letting that immigrant mindsethold us back
and keep us stuck in jobsthat we are just miserable in.
So if I,I hope this resonates with you too.
And you know, I it is so beautiful seeing,the world opening up
and, and more people being ableto move into these different spaces.
(30:56):
And, and I hope that this can be alittle bit of the current for that change.
So I hope this resonated with you.
And I am.
This is a little bit of a two part series.
So the next episode is going to be talkingall about immigrant strengths
on the other side,and how we can utilize the strengths
of being immigrantsand first and second gen in order to
(31:19):
to move in the direction of the paththat we want to be living in.
And, you know, so, so to me, that's that's what it's all about.
And yeah, if this is resonating with you,if you're listening to this and going,
yes, I don't want these thingsholding me back anymore,
I do want to figure outhow to redefine success for myself
(31:39):
and, and be able to to movein the direction of my purpose or passion.
Then I invite you to join mefor three months of private coaching,
and I will help guide youin your particular circumstances.
So, you know, that's the beauty of privatecoaching is really that ability
to look at your particular, your particular circumstances
(32:03):
and where you really wantto move yourself in and be able
to guide you through,through these challenges
and being able to navigateall of this specific to your experience.
So if that is of interest to you,you can go to my website.
Jessica Huang coaching.com and booka free sales call with me to get started.
And so I hope you've enjoyed this episodeand I will see you in the next one.
(32:29):
Want to create more flow in your life?
Go to the show notesand sign up for the email list.
I'll be sharing more strategiesand insights
with you,just like the ones you heard today.
Remember, the power to create the lifeyou desire resides within you.
And I'm here to support youevery step of the way.
(32:49):
The world needs what you will create.
Their sacrifice.
(00:00):
It was following that prescribed list.
And I think many of us fall into this.
You know, it'slike we are the good immigrant kid, right?
It's like you want to make surethat you're doing the right thing
of of living up to the level of sacrificethat your parents made.
And so the way that we've been, we'veconditioned ourselves to live up to
(00:23):
that sacrifice is to abide by those rules,
abide by that little box ofwhat is the right career.
And and so I think it's interestingbecause in essence,
we are honoring their sacrificewith another sacrifice.
And and I think that this is somethingto really realize, right?
(00:44):
Like you're sacrificing
your happiness, your well-being,in order to honor another sacrifice.
And and to me,that is not what this is all about, right?
Like, I think part of what helped mereally leave behind my job in finance
was really going, this isn't actuallyhonoring my parents sacrifice.
(01:08):
Welcome to Permission to Follow.
This podcast is dedicatedto lighting the way towards
greatercreativity, purpose and inner peace.
I'm your host, Jessica Huang.
I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
I spent ten yearschasing the so-called American Dream
(01:28):
while working in corporate finance,before making the pivot into my own path
as a career transition coach, podcaster,and Dharma yoga instructor.
Through a combination of courageand curiosity, I built a career and life
that is aligned with my unique talentsand authentic self.
(01:48):
Now I'm on a mission to helpfirst and second generation women
leave behind the corporate grindand pivot to a creative career.
Whether you want to be an artist, writer,yoga instructor, entrepreneur,
or any other creative venture,it's time to give yourself permission
to flow, exploreand create the life that you want.
(02:11):
The world needs what you will create.
Now let's dive in to today's show.
Did you grow up in an immigrant householdand were told
that you had to be a doctor,a lawyer in business, or a failure?
Hi, I'm Jessica Huang,your career transition
(02:32):
coach,and welcome to Permission to Follow.
And in this episode, we are going to talkall about the immigrant mentality
and how it presentscertain specific challenges
that prevent us from pursuing our passionor purpose.
And instead, we're kind of stuckin this prescribed list of good careers.
(02:53):
Really quick to tell youa little bit of my own background.
So I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
My parents, grew up and,
met in Taiwanbefore immigrating here in their 20s.
And, and I will tell you that their story
is definitelythat typical immigrant struggle story.
My parents came herewith about $1,000 in their pocket,
(03:16):
and they landed here in New York City.
Not that far from where I live, actually.
But let's be clear.
Their apartment is not like my apartment.
They were living in a roachinfested New York City apartment,
and from the stories my dad would tell me,
he would wake up in the night,turn on the light,
(03:37):
and he would see all the roaches,like, scurrying into the corners.
And my dad had to workin a convenience store
because he couldn't get a job.
Even though he was,like, highly educated and
and so he ended up going back to school,actually,
and getting his master's degreein order to work in chemistry.
(03:59):
And my mom worked as a secretary,which is considered a really good job
given the circumstances.
And my mom really climbed her waythrough, her career
working at the Port Authority and, you know, and I see my parents as someone,
as people who did really kind of live outthe American dream, you know, they
are they both worked really long careers.
(04:22):
And they're, in their professions
and really climbed up that ladder,if you will.
And, and so that is the,
the backdrop of whatI'm going to talk about today.
And so we're going to talk a little bitabout this immigrant mentality.
You know, this idea where it's likecoming to a different country.
(04:43):
It causes us to have a lotof these thoughts around
really needing to prioritize, financial security,
job stability, and,and really building a foundation.
If you think about Maslow'shierarchy of needs, it is so focused
on developing that base levelof the hierarchy of needs, of really
(05:05):
making sure we can put food on the table,have a roof over our heads.
Right.
Like those really basic human needs,become the priority
and the focal point of how we decidewhat career we choose.
How we makeour decisions comes from this standpoint
of needing to establish ourselves,establish
(05:26):
a foundation in the countryin which we've immigrated to.
And and so I will say for myself,and perhaps you relate
as a child of immigrantsis this idea that I've really carrying
over a lot of this immigrant mentalityin the decisions that we're making,
and today we're going to talk a little bit
about how to kind of breakfree of those challenges.
(05:47):
And so we're going to talk about threemain ideas.
The first one is talkingabout responsibility.
And the second oneis really focused on sacrifice.
And the third we're going to talk aboutthat big bad word
of failure okay.
So let's dive in to today's show.
So the first thing I want to talk aboutis responsibility.
(06:11):
And when I think about responsibilitythis often really weighs heavily,
on first and second gen,because of this idea
that, like, we need to make surethat we're taking care of everyone, right?
And especially, you know,so many people I know are sending money
back to their familyor taking care of parents
(06:32):
or taking care of siblings or whateverthe case may be.
There's this level of responsibilityof needing to make sure that you are,
that you're making good decisions
in order to make surethat you can take care of others.
And, you know, I see this come up so muchand so many of my clients and,
and how it's it keeps usfrom even thinking
(06:55):
that we can toe dip outside of the linesbecause there's a certain level
of risk averse, nature in the immigrant mentality.
Right?
There's this idea that, like,we need to make safe decisions in order
to not only keep ourselves safe, butkeep all of those people around us safe.
Right.
(07:15):
And so this level of responsibility
can be, like a very heavy weight,quite frankly.
That can keep you in that idea of
I can only do this prescribed list
and, and to take a step back, it's like,why is that the prescribed list?
Right.
This doctor, lawyer, you couldthrow in business engineer, pharmacist.
(07:38):
Right.
Like this prescribed list of, like,good careers that have been designated as,
the thing that that our immigrant parentshave, like, pushed us towards
or whatever the case may be.
And and so it's like it becomes that waybecause these are jobs
that we consider to be safe. Right?
Like they're jobs where it's like,oh, well,
if you do this job, you're going to getthis kind of salary and also
(08:00):
there's this expectationlike it'll be safe, right.
And I want to remindyou also that, especially
for the children of immigrants,where it's like our parents generation
lived in a very different timethan what we are living in today.
Job security was a completely different
animal than than what we're experiencingin today's climate.
(08:21):
Right?
It was very normalfor people like my parents both worked
in their companies for 25, 30 yearplus years.
Right. And and that was normal.
And and people had pensionsand people had these things
that kind of wherethere was a certain level of like,
I don't know, guarantee of,like if you got into the right company,
(08:43):
if you got into the right space, like,
you could do this forthe rest of your life and, and have that,
that security, that stabilitythat, that we're looking for and,
and it's interestingis at least in the corporate lens where I,
I feel like that is a little bitof a fallacy these days,
but that that is kind of the pretenseof what why that list became the list,
(09:05):
right, of why it became like,oh, this is where our, our children,
the type of career is that, thatthey should pursue because they're safe.
And, and so it's interesting like thatprescribed list
and, and so again,going back to this idea of responsibility.
Right.
Like that's why, we've been pushingthis direction and, and we believe
(09:26):
that it is our responsibility to make surethat we are doing the right thing
of taking the safer choice,the safer choice, in order
to make sure that we can take careof, of the people around us.
And and so what?
How do we really break free of this idea?
(09:46):
And, and to me,the main thing to think about is that
I think we can get trappedin a kind of all or nothing mentality
where we believe that in orderthat it's like one or the other.
Right?
It's like eitheryou 100% are in your stable job
or you are 100%pursuing your purpose or passion.
(10:07):
And and I think that a really good thingto remember is like,
it doesn't have to look this way.
And yes, some people do end upgoing in that direction.
Myself included.
But I have seen through my clients,through people around me,
so many incredible examples of peoplewho are able to,
to, to move into thetheir purpose or passion and still
(10:31):
hold on to making sure that they are ableto provide for the people in their lives.
It's interesting because I think thatthere's certain kinds of creatives where
it's become almost normalized that you,that you, you hold space for both, right?
Like I think of actors, you know, I'min New York City, there's so many actors.
And I remember I go to my chiropractorand a lot of the people that were working
(10:54):
there were actually on Broadway,which was so interesting.
Right?
But it was because thethe Chiropractor's office
actually had,the certain kind of environment
that allowed them to go on their auditionsand have a little bit of the flexibility
so that they could still pursue, Broadway shows
or acting gigs or whatever, and be ableto have the stability of this kind of job.
(11:18):
You know, there's plenty of people workingin cafes or whatever the case may be.
But I want you to imagine it's like,how can you then cater that to you
so it doesn't have to be workingin a doctor's office
like you can do itin, a 9 to 5 corporate job.
You can do itin, in so many different places.
And it's really about finding the rightfit of a job
(11:41):
that is able to support youas you build up your purpose
or your passion, whatever the case may be,and have that stability
that you need to have.
And, you know, I think back towhen I worked for Coca-Cola,
for instance,which is a huge, big corporation.
And that job, like larger corporations,I think it
(12:04):
it does actually allow you to be like, oh,this is strictly more like a 9 to 5 job,
you know, versussome, like, startups and smaller spaces
where it's like your hours can beit can end up being a little more fluid.
This is one way to put it.
But, you know, there are plenty of jobs
(12:24):
that actually can give you the spacethat you are able to pursue
what you really want to do and maintainthat stability and and so it's like,
I like to think of it as like,if you're sitting out there right now
and you're like, oh, actually,my job is typically like a 9 to 5,
and I have all this outsidetime outside of that and the space for it
(12:48):
that I can pursue something elselike that is a gold mine.
And and it's funnybecause I did not see it when I was
in those circumstances at the time.
And now I'm like,oh, like that would have been a great time
to pursue something elseoutside of my 9 to 5.
I just want to normalize this ideawhere it's like,
we can hold space for both,and it can look in so many different ways.
(13:09):
Maybe it's a part time job,like there doesn't need to be
this kind of all or nothing mentality of
if I'm in my regular, stable career,
like I'm not allowed to goafter the thing that I really want to
do, it's actually allowing ourselvesto hold space for both.
The last thing I want to sayis that at the end of the day,
(13:31):
I want you to realize that you are going
to take care of your family,and that is not going to go away
just because you've decidedto pursue your passion or purpose.
I think that there can be a little bitof this doubt of saying like, oh,
if I move in this direction,like I'm going to like fall off with this,
(13:52):
these other things, and it's like,
I want you to put back the confidencein yourself
that like, are you at the end of the dayare going to make sure that's going to be
okay, right, like, and,and making decisions from that standpoint.
And that is okay.
Like you're allowed to go like the only,you know like I get to do both.
Right.
Like I get to move in the direction ofwhat holds true meaning and purpose to me.
(14:17):
And of course, I'm going to make surethat I am taking care of myself.
I'm taking care of my familyand whatever the case may be.
So holding space for all of that,is, is really important.
And and you're you're not going toyou're not going to suddenly go like, oh,
I'm not going to take care of everyone.
Like, of course you're going to take careof everyone like that.
(14:37):
That is allowed to still be a part of youwhile you are pursuing
the thing that youthat is really meant for you.
Okay, so now that we've talkedabout responsibility,
let's move on and talk about sacrifice.
And this one definitely, I, I remember
feeling this one a lot,when I was switching careers.
(14:59):
And, you know,because I think that there is
a lot of this idea where your parentshave sacrificed so much.
Right?
I think back to when I was growing upand my parents were gone from
basically 630, 7:00 in the morning
until like seven, 8:00 at night
because they had long commutes and they,they worked so hard.
(15:22):
And, to really take care of me and mybrother, like, they they were definitely,
there was just so much sacrifice
and I, I remember seeing that in them
and, and so for me,
it was I kind of took on this levelof responsibility, right?
(15:43):
This level of responsibilitythat I needed to honor their sacrifice.
And in my mind,in order to honor their sacrifice.
It was following that prescribed list.
And I think many of us fall into this,you know, it's like
we are the good immigrant kid, right?
It's like you want to make surethat you're doing the right thing
(16:05):
of of living up to the level of sacrificethat your parents made.
And so the way that we've been, we'veconditioned ourselves to live up to
that sacrifice is to abide by those rules,
abide by that little box ofwhat is the right career.
And and so I think it's interestingbecause in essence,
(16:28):
we are honoring their sacrificewith another sacrifice.
And and I think that this is somethingto really realize.
Right.
Like you're sacrificing your happiness, your well-being,
in order to honor another sacrifice.
And and to me,that is not what this is all about.
Right?
Like, I think part of what helped mereally leave behind my job in finance
(16:51):
was really going, this isn't actually
honoring my parents sacrifice.
And, you know, I think I wasit was very fortunate that I had
I have a very close relationshipwith my mother,
and she maybe she's listening to this, but
she really was sitting there
(17:12):
going like,what was really listening to me?
You know, tell her about how miserableI was.
You know, and especiallyas I was going through burnout,
especially in those really,really hard times, it was like
she was watching me go,oh, but I got to be resilient.
So I got to be good.
I got to do the right thing, like staythe path.
(17:35):
And I was trying so hard to honor
her sacrifice and go, I'mgoing to be the good kid.
I'm going to climb the corporate ladderlike I'm doing the right thing
to honor you.
And my mother was just like,but I also want you to be happy, you know?
And and I think hearing that and talkingto her about it so many times since then,
(17:56):
it's like reminding yourself, likeyour parents also want you to be happy.
You know, your parents, they sacrificedto give you a better life, not for you
to be miserable and unhappy
like thatis not actually honoring their sacrifice.
I will tell you.
Like, right now, it's like I feel likeI am honoring my parents sacrifice
(18:20):
and and able to really live out
that kind of prescribed American dreamand such a better, more profound way
because I am building a life that makes mehappy and I'm building a life
that gives me peace and I am buildingand I mean especially to me,
like I'm building a life where I'm like,I really want to help other people.
(18:41):
Like, I really want to pay it forward.
And and so being in my purpose
and being able to pursue
the thing that really feels right to me,
that feels like my calling in life,
I truly, fundamentally believe that
that is meactually honoring their sacrifice,
(19:04):
and that is me actually living outthe real American dream for them.
And it's interesting me,because I think that
we have created this box aroundwhat is the American dream.
And, you know, if you are listeningto this somewhere outside of America,
I think the same ideakind of is pervasive, right?
This idea of like you,
(19:25):
you move somewhere
else in the pursuitof, of a better life, right?
In many regards.
And so to me, it's like my parentsmoved here for a better life
for me and my brotherand the real way to honor
that is really to createa better life, right?
Not to just be miserable,not to be, burned out, not to be,
(19:46):
really struggling every single day likethat is not the dream.
And and the fact that we havewe have kind of twisted
the American dream in terms of like,really all like, all we're committed
is to have like a good, stablejob and money coming in regularly.
And that is the dream.
(20:07):
And but I'm absolutely miserable like,that is not it's it's unfortunate
because we, we were fed that
that pursuing these thingswas going to make us happy.
And and that just
has not been the casefor many people, myself included.
(20:29):
And so, if this is resonating with you,then I hope you are also seeing the fact
that, like, you'rethe real American dream is building
is really being ableto pursue your purpose or your passion.
So I think it's really important to,to really question, like,
what does it mean to honor that sacrifice.
And, and it's about so much morethan just doing what you're told
(20:54):
and pursuing the right careerand being on that prescribed list.
And so it's,
living outside of that box is
actually allowing youto really honor their sacrifice.
Okay, so now that we have talkedabout responsibility
and sacrifice, let'stalk about the big bad word of failure.
(21:15):
This one I'm going to talk about itin two regards.
So the first one that I want to talk aboutis how failure wasn't really an option.
And and I think this is so muchso ingrained in the immigrant mentality.
Right.
Is this idea that like failure is notan option, like we need to be successful.
We need to establish that foundation.
You know, I mentioned this whole ideaof Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
(21:39):
Like we've been so fixatedon that bottom tier,
that bottom tier of just like the basehuman needs having a roof
over our heads, having food on the table,like those things we've decided
are like the only thing that,that we have been focused on.
And it's like that ability to go beyond
(21:59):
that is what really is pursuingthe dream, right?
Is being able to move up the ladderand not be so fixated on this bottom tier.
And, you know, and as I said, it'slike we're going to make sure that we are
keeping food on the table,that we are keeping a roof over our heads.
And it's like, but what if we giveourselves permission to move beyond that?
(22:21):
And, and along those lines, like,one thing that I was thinking about is how
I heard I've heard this so many timesin like, different personal development
spaces of this idea of being ableto, like, fail fast and excel faster.
Right?
And so it's like having that, that,having a different relationship
with failure.
And so it's, it'sallowing ourselves to fail, quote unquote.
(22:45):
And, and like learn from that failureand move forward and, and keep going.
And, and I think aboutwhen I heard about this idea, I was like,
I do not understandlike this does not compute for me.
And because for me it was like,no, we're not allowed to fail.
Like we have to go with a safe choice.
Like we can't move outside of that.
(23:07):
And and so I think it's really powerfulof this idea of saying like, oh, actually,
I want to be able to experimentand play around and fail.
Like, really,none of these are real failures, right?
Like to me, like nothing is a failureif I have learned from it.
Like that is my perspective on failure.
And so in essence,
like I don't think that anything actuallyis really, truly a failure
(23:30):
because it's like every single experiencethat we go through, we learn from them
and, and we,we do better next time. Right?
And so it's interesting because this issomething that I've had to adapt over time
because before I was like,oh no, we don't want to fail.
Like that's not allowed.
And and so I think it's really powerfulfor us to redefine
(23:52):
what is failure and, and redefinewhat is success.
Right.
And so from the failure standpoint, it's
being able to saylike nothing is a failure.
Like I'm allowed to try things onand test things out
and and learn from it and growand keep adapting and moving forward.
And then on the other side ofthat is is like, what is success?
(24:13):
And I was having such a great conversationwith my best friend recently.
And through our conversation,I was like, you know, what it is?
Is that success is really being ableto have options.
Success is really being able to experiment
like that in and of itself is success
because we've defined success as like, oh,getting that next promotion
(24:37):
of moving up that ladder likethat is what success has meant.
But actually the reality is, is successis being able to explore and move beyond
this prescribed listthat, in essence, is already a success.
That is my definition at the very least.
And so to me, it's like being able to saythat the American dream
(25:01):
is actually being able to movebeyond that base level of like this
prescribed list of jobs and this lowesttier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
And being able to pursue beyond that.
That is what true successes.
The other side of failurethat I want to talk about is this idea
that like we've in essence said, okay,if I'm not doing the doctor
(25:26):
lawyer business thing,the only other option is failure.
Like even pursuinganything outside of that
is seen as like,not good enough as a as failure.
Right.
And, and I think so much of likehow at least in my culture,
I don't know about yours,but I, I think about how it's like, oh,
my parents have really enjoyed being ableto go to my aunts and uncles and go like,
(25:50):
oh, well, Jessica's in finance and,you know, making this money
and getting this promotion or whateverthe case may be, right?
Like, it was likeit made my parents proud of me.
And that was somethingthat was really important to me,
is making them proud,making our parents proud
and this one particular way,and as far as it comes to parents,
(26:10):
I think it's really important to rememberthat your parents might not see it,
they might not understand.
But at the end of the day,you are actually fulfilling that dream.
For them.
You are a success,even if they can't see it
like that doesn'tchange the reality of it.
And I, you know,
as I mentioned, like we are redefiningwhat that American dream is.
(26:33):
We are redefining what success is in
as as the ability
to pursue our purposeor passion like that is the dream.
So yeah, I just want to remind you that
there's so much beyondwhat we have considered a failure.
(26:54):
And actually what we thought wasa failure is actually a success.
And so I think it's it's really importantfor us to, to really look at how
we've been defining failure and successand be able to define it on our own terms.
You know, there's I like to remember thatthere is no real right path.
(27:14):
There is just the right path for you and
and so I want you to remind yourselflike you are,
I want you to remind yourself that, like,you can give yourself permission
to move beyond that limited,
that limited frameworkthat was given to you.
And, and that is actually creatingmore success
(27:36):
than what your original definitionthat was giving you.
Okay.
So so in today's episode,we have covered off on
responsibility, sacrifice and failure.
So with responsibility, it's all aboutinstead of thinking like, oh,
I have to limit myselfin order to be responsible, it is instead
moving beyond that all or nothingmentality and are allowing ourselves
(28:00):
to to pursue our passionor purpose alongside of being responsible
and taking care of ourselvesand our family with sacrifice.
It's all about asking yourselfthe question of
what does it really mean to honoryour parents sacrifice?
Is it all about
being the good kid and having the good jobwhile being miserable?
(28:23):
Or is it actually about allowing yourselfthe freedom of options and choice
and and being able to build a lifethat you actually want?
Which waydo you want to honor their sacrifice?
And lastly, in terms of failure,what if nothing is truly a failure?
What if they're all just lessons?
(28:43):
And what if it is not a failure
to move beyond that short prescribed list?
And instead a real, true success
is giving yourselfthe freedom of having options.
So I hope this is helpful.
You know, part of the reasonwhy this has become so important to me,
(29:04):
and why I'm even talking about this today,is, you know,
I think about the little girl that I waswhen I, when I was growing up
and how it was likeI didn't really see myself in
in spaces outside of that prescribed list.
You know, the the media certainly didn'treflect people that looked like me
(29:24):
and, and I, I grew up kind of feeling outof place and, and that I didn't belong.
And, you know, I see thatthere are so many strides being made today
in terms of representationin so much in, in different spaces.
But so much of why I do
the work that I do isI want to see a world where it's like
(29:48):
there are more people who look like meand more immigrants
who are able to bein all different kinds of spaces.
And to me, when I think ofwhy do I say creative careers,
it's really anything outsideof that traditional box.
You know, it's it'sit is the artists and actors
and models or whatever the case may be.
(30:09):
It's also entrepreneurs,the wellness spaces, yoga instructor.
It's like all of these different thingshave felt kind of out of bounds, right?
Like it felt likethese are not the good careers, right?
These are failures.
If we move art outside of that box,and I want to live in a world
where it's like I seepeople pursuing all kinds of things
(30:33):
and and not letting that immigrant mindsethold us back
and keep us stuck in jobsthat we are just miserable in.
So if I,I hope this resonates with you too.
And you know, I it is so beautiful seeing,the world opening up
and, and more people being ableto move into these different spaces.
(30:56):
And, and I hope that this can be alittle bit of the current for that change.
So I hope this resonated with you.
And I am.
This is a little bit of a two part series.
So the next episode is going to be talkingall about immigrant strengths
on the other side,and how we can utilize the strengths
of being immigrantsand first and second gen in order to
(31:19):
to move in the direction of the paththat we want to be living in.
And, you know, so, so to me, that's that's what it's all about.
And yeah, if this is resonating with you,if you're listening to this and going,
yes, I don't want these thingsholding me back anymore,
I do want to figure outhow to redefine success for myself
(31:39):
and, and be able to to movein the direction of my purpose or passion.
Then I invite you to join mefor three months of private coaching,
and I will help guide youin your particular circumstances.
So, you know, that's the beauty of privatecoaching is really that ability
to look at your particular, your particular circumstances
(32:03):
and where you really wantto move yourself in and be able
to guide you through,through these challenges
and being able to navigateall of this specific to your experience.
So if that is of interest to you,you can go to my website.
Jessica Huang coaching.com and booka free sales call with me to get started.
And so I hope you've enjoyed this episodeand I will see you in the next one.
(32:29):
Want to create more flow in your life?
Go to the show notesand sign up for the email list.
I'll be sharing more strategiesand insights
with you,just like the ones you heard today.
Remember, the power to create the lifeyou desire resides within you.
And I'm here to support youevery step of the way.
(32:49):
The world needs what you will create.
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