October 30, 2024 • 31 mins
In this heartfelt episode of Permission to Flow, host Jessica Hwang delves into the intricate dynamics of having difficult conversations with parents—particularly around the topic of career changes. Drawing from her own journey of leaving a corporate finance job to pursue coaching and podcasting, Jessica provides invaluable insights on how to navigate these challenging discussions with empathy and understanding. Listeners will discover the importance of recognizing their parents' love despite potentially negative or unsupportive reactions, and how to interpret these responses as a form of care, albeit sometimes misguided.
Jessica emphasizes the need for compassionate boundaries, both for personal well-being and to foster healthier family dynamics. By sharing strategies like avoiding certain topics temporarily and being prepared to answer common parental concerns, she offers practical advice to help listeners communicate more effectively. The episode also taps into the wisdom of thought leaders like Jay Shetty, to reinforce the idea that it’s okay to be misunderstood and that finding a "chosen family" who supports your journey can be incredibly empowering.
For those feeling like they're swimming upstream against societal norms, Jessica's candid reflection on the challenges and rewards of pursuing a non-traditional career path will resonate deeply. She closes the episode by reinforcing the importance of courage, self-compassion, and trusting one’s instincts in these meaningful conversations. If you’re ready to take the brave step towards a creative career, this episode is an essential guide for communicating your vision and setting the boundaries necessary for your success.
Quotes from the episode:
"Communication is the best thing, even when it doesn't go well."
"Our parents are imperfect human beings. And I think that that is something really important to note, right? Like, they are not perfect beings, and they might not react well and they might say the wrong thing, but they're doing the best that they can."
"One of the biggest things that you want to be able to exemplify is your own safety, that you have kind of like a plan of action in terms of financial safety or like making sure that you have a roof over to your head and food on your table and all those basic needs that you have already thought through how to keep yourself safe."
Connect with Jessica:
Instagram: @jessicahwangcoaching
Facebook: Jessica Hwang Coaching
Website: Jessica Hwang Coaching
Credits:
Music co-written by Steven Murillo (@someoneinatreeband) & Jessica Hwang (@jessicahwangcoaching)
Production and audio engineering by Travis Carr (@traviscarrphoto)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
For anyone listening
to this, I want you to realize, like,it is okay if people misunderstand you.
And and to me, it's like
it's the idea of your given familyand your chosen family.
It's like finding that chosen familythat does get you, that does understand
you, that totally is with youand what you're doing.
And mind you, it's like even those peoplemight not totally understand you.
(00:23):
You know, maybe they understandlittle facets of you,
but build up that ability to golike I have my chosen family
and or I have this one personwho really gets what I'm doing
that is going to fundamentally helpyou navigate all of this
a little bit easier,because you know that you're not alone.
But no matter what,I want you to remember,
and I want you to hear me right nowwhen I say that you are not alone.
(00:46):
And. And I've been in your shoes.
All my clients have been in your shoes.
So many people that I talkedto have been in your shoes.
And you're not alone.
Welcome to Permission to Flow.
This podcast is dedicatedto lighting the way towards
greater creativity,purpose, and inner peace.
I'm your host, Jessica Wang.
(01:08):
I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
I spent ten yearschasing the so-called American Dream
while working in corporate finance,before making the pivot into my own path
as a career transition coach, podcaster,and dharma yoga instructor.
Through a combination of courageand curiosity, I built a career and life
(01:31):
that is aligned with my unique talentsand authentic self.
Now I'm on a mission to help.
First and second generation womenleave behind
the corporate grindand pivot to a creative career.
Whether you want to be an artist, writer,yoga instructor, entrepreneur,
or any other creative venture, it'stime to give yourself permission to flow.
(01:55):
Explore and create the life that you want.
The world needs what you will create.
Now let's dive in to today's show.
So to talk
a little bit about whyI'm making this episode, I will be honest,
this is a really difficult episodefor me to make.
To be totally transparent,this is something
(02:17):
that I have certainly struggled with,and it's
taken me some timeto be able to speak openly about it.
But I also know how important it isto talk about this.
We like to shy awayfrom difficult conversations.
We like to shy away from thingsthat make us uncomfortable.
And guess what?
We need to do it anyway.
(02:38):
And if anything,I think that making this episode is
a really big step for meto to be comfortable being vulnerable
and and to step up to the plate of,you know, let me share my experience.
Let me share, things I've learnedand how I've been able to help my clients
navigate this,because I think it's really important.
(02:59):
And I think somany of us can get hung up or held back
from creating the life that we wantfrom moving forward in the direction
that we really believethat we want for ourselves,
because we're so afraidto have these conversations.
And here's the thing is,what I have found is communication
(03:19):
is the best thing,
even when it doesn't go well.
And that is something
that I think has been challengingto realize.
It's been challenging to live up to,
but it's something that I have learned
is really so,so important for us to be able
(03:39):
to move forward and createbetter relationships in our lives.
And so whether you are specificallytrying to have this difficult conversation
or really any other conversation,I'm hoping
that the wisdom that I'm sharing inthis episode will be helpful.
I really believe that our relationships
truly become
(04:00):
deeper, richer, and more prosperous
through being ableto have these difficult conversations,
through being able to be vulnerable,through being able to really show up
and and be able to to discuss the thingsthat we don't want to discuss.
That's why I'm making this episodeas difficult it is even for me
to be, to be sharingsome of the things I'm going to share.
(04:23):
Because I just, I think that being able to
to tackle these hardconversations is really, really important.
And it's like, yes,we all love sweeping things under the rug.
But what I found is thatthere is such beauty
and such incredible,
(04:45):
I don't know, there'sso many incredible gifts
hidden away behind being able to navigate
challenging conversationsand not shy away from them.
So the way that we're going to talk aboutthis today is kind of how we can
look at it from the before havingthe conversation within the conversation
and after the conversation.
So that's the kind of threedifferent lenses
(05:07):
that we're going to talkfrom in this episode.
All right.
So before we dive intowith the three points,
I really want to share a little bitabout my own journey with us.
And and as I said,why this is so important
to meto to be able to share this with you.
When I decided to become a coach,start a podcast and all of it,
(05:28):
let's face it,
it was definitely a very, very,very sharp right turn
from what I've been doingworking in corporate finance.
And, and it's interestingbecause I look at it as
I had two completely different modelsbetween my two parents.
And, and I want to be really honestabout this
in that I have a very differentrelationship with my two parents and,
(05:51):
and everyone is going to have differentrelationships with their parents.
And keep in mind.
I'm going to talkspecifically around parents,
because I think that is one of our,I don't know, tenderest
kind of relationships or tenuous,depending on
how your relationshipis with your parents.
But I think it'sone of the most important.
Right?
Because at the end of the day,we care so much about what
(06:13):
our parents think, regardlessof what our relationship is with them.
Right?
Like, generally speaking,I think just as human beings
like we wantand we crave our parents approval.
And so this is oftenone of the stickiest points, I would say,
as far as that relationship dynamicand the ability to go like, I'm
moving forward with this because we havefor most of our lives, at least for mine,
(06:37):
it was that I really took intoconsideration my parents opinions right?
Like that's how I ended up on the pathI have had been on.
My parents said likefinance would be a good idea.
You know, I was following the good path.
I was doing all the thingsbecause of my parents in many ways.
Right?
Because they were guiding mein these directions.
(06:58):
And and if you haven't already,definitely go back
and check out my episodeabout immigrant struggles in particular,
because I talk a lotabout my own experience
and a lot of the ideas aroundhow it's been, you know, navigating that
that dynamic, right, of of havingespecially immigrant parents kind of guide
the path for you and, and how challengingit is to break away from that.
(07:21):
Right.
And so I think about that a lot,and that I chose
a lot of the things that I chosebecause of my parents and, and wanting to
make them proudand wanting to do the things
that seemed right or,or the, the right path.
Right.
And so it's
(07:42):
really, really challengingwhen we go, oh, I'm
actually going to do something differentthan the way that you've been guiding me
my entire life.
I have two very different relationshipsbetween my two parents.
You know, I I'm, I'm close with my mom.
I kind of have always brought heralong the way
and told herwhat I'm really going through.
(08:03):
And so I think that she was very muchalong the journey with me
through many, many points along the wayand with my dad.
You know, it's it's often to be honest,it's been the case
where I think I'm more afraidof what he thinks and, and his judgment.
And so I would hide a lot of things awayuntil it became kind of impossible.
(08:26):
And I don't knowif you can relate to this,
but I know
talking with a lot of my friends,that they have often been that way too,
where it's like,
you don't tell your parentsunless you really have to.
And which case is kind of a little bitlike dropping a bomb
right where you're like,oh, all of a sudden I'm nowhere.
You're like, oh, I'm doing this thing.And they're like, what?
And and so it's it'sjust been very interesting,
(08:49):
like looking at the dynamicbetween my two parents and the way
that our relationships are and the waythat these conversations have been.
And so you know, a lot of what I've beenlearning has been through the lens
of being around both of themand having them have very different,
kind of trajectory of,of following my path
(09:13):
and, and seeing, you know, I think that'swhy I want to do this because I see how
because my mom has been ableto be there along the way with me.
It allowed itso that we had more open communication.
And she knew what I was going throughand and was able to support my decision,
or at least like, understand ita little bit more than my dad was able to
(09:36):
because she was able to see,oh, Jessica's really unhappy in her job,
you know, and and you know, I, I mentionedthis in another episode, like my mom
when I was really burned out in my joband I was pushing really hard
and being like, I gotta make this work.
Like she was there backing me up, going,you don't have to do that.
You know, like, I want you to be happy.
(09:57):
And so I got to have that perspectivefrom her in a way that I'm very,
very fortunate for, you know, and,and I know a lot of people don't
have that relationship with their parentsthat maybe theirs is both their
parents are more like the relationshipI have I've had with my dad
and and so it's it'sjust been really challenging, you know,
because on the other side of it,with my dad, I'll be honest, he
(10:20):
I blindsided him a little bit, you know,and, and I take full responsibility.
But that has been the dynamicof our relationship where I was.
So, as I said, worried about his opinion
and and his perspective and knowingthat he probably wouldn't approve and
and not wanting toto broach the subject to the point where
by the time I actually did, itbecame like this giant bomb, right where
(10:43):
I'm like, I've already made the decision.
You just kind of have to get on board.
And and it was a lot more challenging.
And to be honest,
I will be completely honest.
He did not react well.
And and it really was detrimental
to our relationship for a while. And,
(11:03):
yeah, it was it was hard.
You know, Iit was really, really challenging.
I love my both my parents and
I really had to go through a lot.
And, you know, it's it's not easy.
It's not easy when, when you, like,your parents say terrible things to you,
you know, like, that becomeskind of seared into your brain
(11:25):
and you have to navigate that.
And so I am hopingthat this episode can help
someone just navigate this a little bitbetter than I did, to be honest.
And, but yeah, it's, it was really tough.
And, you know, I'm, I'm very thankfuland that I think over time
(11:45):
I have been able to build
better relationships with my parentsand build the ability for us to,
to beable to navigate this a little bit better.
But it was really, really challenging.
And, you know, andand now it's like, it's amazing.
My, my parents both really supportwhat I'm doing.
(12:05):
I mean, to the best of their ability. And
and it's, it's changed
from that initial timeand I'm very, very thankful for that.
But but it's, it's been, to be honest,
a very challenging thing.
When,when I decided to completely switch gears
from what they wanted for me,you know, and,
(12:28):
and I will say it was really challengingbecause I think
that being in finance was somethingthat my dad was really proud of.
And heit also was like a connection point.
And, and so not having that anymorewas really challenging,
but it also made me.
But I also couldn't let that stop me
from moving forward in the directionthat I really wanted to move in.
(12:50):
All right.
So that's a lot of,that's been the journey for me.
And that's really the backdropof this episode and why I'm making it.
So, so I want to, as I
said, really talk you through a little bitof how to navigate this a little,
betterin terms of that kind of before, middle
(13:13):
and after from that perspective of like,how can we have these deep,
difficult conversationswith our family members
and in particular with our parents and,and be able to navigate that?
Okay.
So let's talka little bit about the before I,
I will say that as much as you can kindof bring people along the way with you,
(13:35):
it is really beneficialjust so that they can see the journey and,
and kind of understand a little bit of whyyou're making this change.
You know, just as I explainedwith the complete difference
between my two parentsand how I was navigating it.
But here's the thing.
One of the most important things,I think, for yourself to do
(13:57):
when you are navigatingthese kind of conversations
is to really ground yourselfin your own. Why?
Why do you want to make thiscareer change?
Why do you want to move forwardin this direction?
Like what is that deepest inner why?
And and one of the best exercises to dois literally to ask yourself
(14:17):
why five times and just keep diggingin deeper and deeper to like, what is that
deepest rooted core of why you are lookingto make this change happen in your life?
And because I think it's so importantto hold ourselves true to that.
Here's the thing is,no matter how these conversations go,
it is so easy for usto get knocked around by our parents.
(14:40):
Let's be honest, right?
Like our parents,as I said, have been our guides.
They've been that kind of point of wisdomfor many of us.
And and so it's so easyfor us to get rocked or uprooted
from what we're doingif we're not firmly rooted down
in terms of our why,when they're questioning
why you're doing this or what,you're moving forward in this direction,
(15:03):
like holding true to that innerwhy is going to help you
from from kind of letting yourselfget thrown around.
And the second thingis to really take note of like,
what are questions that I thinkthat my parents will ask of me?
And mind you, I'm going to say parents,but this is whoever you're talking to.
But for parents, like, what are the thingsthat they're going to ask you?
(15:24):
They're probably going to ask you about,like,
how are you planning to support yourselffinancially? Right.
They're probably going to ask youlike what your what your kind of plan is.
And so having some frameworkor some idea of these things
and kind of anticipatingsome of these questions will help you
navigate when you're in the conversation,you're not going to have all the answers.
Let's be clear.
But to the best of your ability,
(15:45):
when you can kind ofhave a little bit of that base groundwork
of what you think they will askyou and be firmly rooted in your why,
that is going to tremendously help youwhen you go into these conversations.
At the end of the day,one of the biggest things
that you want to be able toexemplify is your own safety
that you have kind oflike a plan of action
(16:06):
in terms of financial safety,or like making sure that you have a roof
over your head and food on your tableand all those basic needs
that you have already thoughtthrough, how to keep yourself safe and
and being able to answer those questionsis going to show them like a you've
thought about it and and be like,you're serious, right?
Like you are seriousabout making this change happen.
(16:26):
And so it's so important,as much as you can get
some of that groundwork out of the way,just so you go in feeling
some sense of like comfortand, and rootedness
in the directionthat you're trying to move in.
Okay, so now that we talked about
before the conversation, let's talkabout during the conversation.
So during the conversation hereare some of the things that I think about.
(16:49):
I want you to remember that
you and your parentsare coming from different perspectives.
And at the end of the day, your parentshave lived a different life than you.
They've livedin a different generation than you.
If they're immigrantsand you grew up in the country,
that's going to give youdifferent perspectives.
Whatever the case may be,I just want you to remind yourself
that it's normal, that they might notentirely see and completely
(17:13):
understand where you're coming fromright off the bat,
because they're comingfrom a completely different perspective.
And and so I think it's so importantto kind of ground ourselves in that,
in the fact that, like, that's normal.
It's normal that they're going to thinkthat this is very out there
because it's not somethingthat they probably would have considered.
It's not somethingthat was really on the table for them.
(17:36):
And, you know, in particular,if you have parents who are immigrants,
it's like theytheir whole thing has been having safety,
establishing themselves in this country,setting you up for success.
And so of course, it's going to feelreally, really earth shattering if you are
steering away from the stable lifethat they have been building for you.
(17:59):
And and so I think normalizing the factthat like this makes sense
of why they are feeling this wayand being okay with that.
Right.
Like feeling like it's okay, we're goingto be on three different pages.
But that doesn't change the factthat, like, I need to express to you
that this is what I want to doand the direction I want to move in.
I want us to have empathy and compassionfor our parents,
(18:21):
because at the end of the day, liketheir whole job has been to keep you safe.
And that is what they're trying to doin this conversation.
And so grounding yourself in thatand that fact and knowing that
they're theyare still trying to do the best for you
to the best of their ability.
And even if it doesn't seemlike that, it's okay.
(18:42):
And second to thatis that you cannot control their reaction.
And so I think reminding ourselves,like I am going to,
you know, as I said,prepare to the best of my ability.
Remember that we are different people.
They're goingto have different perspectives.
And that's okay.
And know that, like,you can't control their reaction.
(19:03):
And and so no matterwhat, like these are still your parents.
They still love you.
And and even if they don't react
well that's that fact is not untrue.
And you know, for myself, I remember
when I went through the whole thingthat I explained with my dad,
(19:24):
he did not react well, and he
said some frankly awful things to me.
And as much as I've had to livewith that and,
you know, that definitelywas an incredibly difficult time for me.
I also had to look at it and go,
as hard as it is.
As much as he isnot able to express this in a
(19:46):
in a good way, that's beneficial.
I know that, he says these terrible thingsto me because he does care,
and because he loves me andand he wants to keep me safe.
And and I know that might be difficultfor you to see, especially in the moments,
but I don't know, I,I choose to see it with love
(20:08):
and and not to look at it as it's coming
from a place of like, deep horribleness.
Because I know that
that is the essence of our relationship.
And, and it's just thatI am veering off course
and it is disrupting his senseof stability and livelihood.
(20:30):
And, you know, everything that he's workedso hard for.
And and so I think navigatinga lot of this comes down to like
remembering that there is love there,even when it doesn't feel like it.
And I, you know, I'm kind of talking youthrough like a worst case scenario.
And, you know, hopefullyyou'll end up somewhere in the middle.
(20:51):
But I want to I want to be upfrontbecause I lived through that.
And yes, it was incredibly painful.
And and I had to come back to itand see it
as a,as it coming from a place of love and care
and, and and remembering, like,my parents are human.
And, you know, I was I was talking ona podcast episode, on a podcast interview
(21:16):
about how
our, our parents are imperfecthuman beings.
And, and I think that that is somethingreally important to note.
Right?
Like they are not perfect beingsand they might not react well
and they might say the wrong thing,
but they're doing the best that they can.
(21:37):
And, and I think it's, it's interesting,right.
Because we, we want to imaginethat our parents are perfect
and we can pedestals themfor much of our lives.
And, and I think it's really,really important to to remind ourselves,
like they also are peopleand they also make mistakes.
And they also might say the wrong thing
(22:00):
or do something that is is like,not great.
And it doesn't change the factthat we will still love them.
And, you know, it's it's interesting
because I think about the relationshipwith our families, right?
And how it's like, well,you are born into this family and, and we,
(22:20):
we need to navigate these relationships
because we are tied to our familythrough this lifetime.
It's such a practice groundfor unconditional love
and so even when my parents disappointor upset me,
it is it is a practice of of me
being able to exemplifyunconditional love, right?
(22:40):
Like even when they might hurt my feelingsor say something that that does not sit
well with me, how can I still expressunconditional love to them?
Who? This is a heavy episode.
All right,so now that we've talked about before
and during, let's talk about after.
And here's the thingis, the aftermath obviously
(23:03):
is a lot longer of a time than the beforeand the during.
And and it's going to be an evolution.
And depending on how that conversationwent, it's
like things are going to unfoldin different ways.
You know, maybe theythey've they are fully supportive
and you can continue talking with themand everything like that.
(23:23):
But I do want to talkabout the possibility of
when these conversations don't go well,you know, and if that is the case, again,
it is holding loving compassionfor our family and for ourselves.
It is challenging
when these conversations don'tgo the way that we would like them to.
We would love for us to have easyconversations all the time.
(23:47):
But naturally when we have difficultconversations like there is,
there is tension, there is stress,there is the
there is a lot to navigate here.
And so to the best of your abilityto pour on, as much compassion
for yourself and for your parentsis the best thing to do.
If it is the case that your parentsare having a hard time supporting you,
(24:10):
I think it's importantto set good boundaries to be able to say
like, you know, maybe you want to continuebeing able to talk to them,
but it's like this did not go welland you don't want to talk about it.
Well then don't I'll be honest with you.
I would say take that topic,take that topic off the table temporarily.
You know, maybe it won't be forever,but maybe in the aftermath of this,
(24:34):
you need to say, hey,I don't want to talk about this right now.
Like I am still moving in this directionif you don't support it, I understand,
but I don't want to talk
about it for a timeand let it be off the table for a while
and then, you know, slowly,maybe like with some time and some space,
you're able to have a little bitmore conversation about it.
(24:56):
But in the initial aftermath,if you need to hold strong boundaries
and not discuss it,you do that for yourself.
That is holding compassion for yourselfand that is super important.
Here's the other thing I,
I had I heard this from JTand it really struck a chord with me.
It was him saying someone had asked themsomething along the lines of
(25:19):
what is something that you used to value?
That you no longer value?
And his answer was being understood.
And I've thought about that so muchbecause it's like
we as humanbeings just want to be understood.
We want people to really like, see usand what we're doing and get it.
And here's the thingnot everyone is going to and
(25:39):
and I think it's hardest when it isyour parents that are not getting it.
And as I've navigated through all this,I realized
just the power of being comfortable,being misunderstood.
It is powerful.
And so the more that you can go,you know what?
They might not understand what I'm doing,but it's okay.
(26:02):
It does not change the fact that this iswhat is meant for me.
It does not change the factthat I am going in this direction.
It does not change that fact.
And I think that the more that you canground yourself and root yourself in.
And that's why step one,I talk to you about your why.
That right there is how you go.
(26:23):
It's okay that they all understand me.
I know why I'm doing this.
I know why this is important to me andimportant for me to move forward in this
and at the end of the day, holding true tothat is going to help you so, so much.
For anyone listening to this,I want you to realize, like, it is okay
if people misunderstand youand and to me, it's like maybe you have
(26:48):
I think it's almost like
it's the idea of you're given familyin your chosen family.
It's like finding that chosen familythat does get you, that does understand
you, that totally is with youand what you're doing.
And mind you, it's like even those peoplemight not totally understand you.
You know, maybe they understandlittle facets of you,
but build up that ability to golike I have my chosen family
(27:11):
and or I have this one personwho really gets what I'm doing
that is going to fundamentally helpyou navigate all of this
a little bit easier,because you know that you're not alone.
But no matter what,I want you to remember,
and I want you to hear me right nowwhen I say that you are not alone.
And. And I've been in your shoes.
So many,all of my clients have been in your shoes.
(27:34):
So many people that I talkto have been in your shoes.
And you're not alone. And.
And as hard as it may seem to move forward
and somethingthat is going against the grain and, and
I like to think of the analogy of like,
you're swimming up riverwhen everyone else is swimming downstream.
And it's like, why is this so hard? Well,of course it's so hard.
(27:55):
You are swimming upstreamwhen everyone else is going downstream
and you're like, something's wrong.Nothing is wrong.
When you really look around,you're going to realize
there are all these other fishswimming upstream with you.
And and I want you to remind yourself,
like you're not aloneand you're not the only one doing this.
And it isit is honestly the most beautiful,
(28:16):
incredible,courageous thing to decide for yourself
that you are going to move upstreamwhen everyone else is going downstream.
So I think grounding ourselves in the fact
that, like, it'sokay to be misunderstood, it's okay
for not everyone to get what you're doingand that's that's okay.
That doesn't mean it's wrong.
(28:36):
That doesn't mean it's not for you.
And and when you really listento that gut, that gut
feeling that's telling youlike this is the way to move,
it's beautiful.
And it means so much.
So at the end of the day,I just want you to remember boundaries.
Boundaries are great.
And the thing is,I think we think that boundaries
(28:57):
are going to hurt our relationships,but they are actually going to benefit
our relationships, especially if we'renavigating these difficult conversations
because it is going to help usstill keep the relationship right.
Like still keep it intact and go, okay,but we don't
we're not going to touch these thingsright now.
(29:18):
And that's okay.
It's okay to say, I don't reallywant to talk about this right now.
It's okay to advocate for our own needs.
Okay.
So I think that's thatthose are my thoughts on kind
of the before,the during and the after of these,
navigating these conversations.
And so ultimately,I just want you to remember
(29:39):
that you are amazingand your courage and your ability to go.
I want to have these conversations.
I want to move forward in the directionthat makes sense for me
is just the most incredibleact of bravery.
I hope that this has been helpful,and I hope that you can give yourself
so much compassionthrough the entire process, no matter
what happens, and allow yourselfto be grounded firmly in the fact that
(30:04):
whatever it is that your gut is tellingyou is meant for you.
So thank you so, so much.
I, I have to give myself a momentright now and be like,
I am appreciating myselffor getting through this episode
because as I mentioned at the beginning,
this is not been an easy episodefor me to record.
(30:24):
And and I think I was shying away fromit for, for a while, but I,
I really hope that
this is helping youand I, I really hope that this can benefit
your own relationship and your own abilityto have these difficult conversations.
So thank you.
So, so, so very muchfor listening to this episode,
(30:44):
and I will see you on the next one.
Want to create more flow in your life?
Go to the show notesand sign up for the email list.
I'll be sharing more strategiesand insights
with youjust like the ones you heard today.
Remember, the power to create the lifeyou desire resides within you.
And I'm here to support youevery step of the way.
(31:07):
The world needs what you will create.
For anyone listening
to this, I want you to realize, like,it is okay if people misunderstand you.
And and to me, it's like
it's the idea of your given familyand your chosen family.
It's like finding that chosen familythat does get you, that does understand
you, that totally is with youand what you're doing.
And mind you, it's like even those peoplemight not totally understand you.
(00:23):
You know, maybe they understandlittle facets of you,
but build up that ability to golike I have my chosen family
and or I have this one personwho really gets what I'm doing
that is going to fundamentally helpyou navigate all of this
a little bit easier,because you know that you're not alone.
But no matter what,I want you to remember,
and I want you to hear me right nowwhen I say that you are not alone.
(00:46):
And. And I've been in your shoes.
All my clients have been in your shoes.
So many people that I talkedto have been in your shoes.
And you're not alone.
Welcome to Permission to Flow.
This podcast is dedicatedto lighting the way towards
greater creativity,purpose, and inner peace.
I'm your host, Jessica Wang.
(01:08):
I'm a second generationTaiwanese American.
I spent ten yearschasing the so-called American Dream
while working in corporate finance,before making the pivot into my own path
as a career transition coach, podcaster,and dharma yoga instructor.
Through a combination of courageand curiosity, I built a career and life
(01:31):
that is aligned with my unique talentsand authentic self.
Now I'm on a mission to help.
First and second generation womenleave behind
the corporate grindand pivot to a creative career.
Whether you want to be an artist, writer,yoga instructor, entrepreneur,
or any other creative venture, it'stime to give yourself permission to flow.
(01:55):
Explore and create the life that you want.
The world needs what you will create.
Now let's dive in to today's show.
So to talk
a little bit about whyI'm making this episode, I will be honest,
this is a really difficult episodefor me to make.
To be totally transparent,this is something
(02:17):
that I have certainly struggled with,and it's
taken me some timeto be able to speak openly about it.
But I also know how important it isto talk about this.
We like to shy awayfrom difficult conversations.
We like to shy away from thingsthat make us uncomfortable.
And guess what?
We need to do it anyway.
(02:38):
And if anything,I think that making this episode is
a really big step for meto to be comfortable being vulnerable
and and to step up to the plate of,you know, let me share my experience.
Let me share, things I've learnedand how I've been able to help my clients
navigate this,because I think it's really important.
(02:59):
And I think somany of us can get hung up or held back
from creating the life that we wantfrom moving forward in the direction
that we really believethat we want for ourselves,
because we're so afraidto have these conversations.
And here's the thing is,what I have found is communication
(03:19):
is the best thing,
even when it doesn't go well.
And that is something
that I think has been challengingto realize.
It's been challenging to live up to,
but it's something that I have learned
is really so,so important for us to be able
(03:39):
to move forward and createbetter relationships in our lives.
And so whether you are specificallytrying to have this difficult conversation
or really any other conversation,I'm hoping
that the wisdom that I'm sharing inthis episode will be helpful.
I really believe that our relationships
truly become
(04:00):
deeper, richer, and more prosperous
through being ableto have these difficult conversations,
through being able to be vulnerable,through being able to really show up
and and be able to to discuss the thingsthat we don't want to discuss.
That's why I'm making this episodeas difficult it is even for me
to be, to be sharingsome of the things I'm going to share.
(04:23):
Because I just, I think that being able to
to tackle these hardconversations is really, really important.
And it's like, yes,we all love sweeping things under the rug.
But what I found is thatthere is such beauty
and such incredible,
(04:45):
I don't know, there'sso many incredible gifts
hidden away behind being able to navigate
challenging conversationsand not shy away from them.
So the way that we're going to talk aboutthis today is kind of how we can
look at it from the before havingthe conversation within the conversation
and after the conversation.
So that's the kind of threedifferent lenses
(05:07):
that we're going to talkfrom in this episode.
All right.
So before we dive intowith the three points,
I really want to share a little bitabout my own journey with us.
And and as I said,why this is so important
to meto to be able to share this with you.
When I decided to become a coach,start a podcast and all of it,
(05:28):
let's face it,
it was definitely a very, very,very sharp right turn
from what I've been doingworking in corporate finance.
And, and it's interestingbecause I look at it as
I had two completely different modelsbetween my two parents.
And, and I want to be really honestabout this
in that I have a very differentrelationship with my two parents and,
(05:51):
and everyone is going to have differentrelationships with their parents.
And keep in mind.
I'm going to talkspecifically around parents,
because I think that is one of our,I don't know, tenderest
kind of relationships or tenuous,depending on
how your relationshipis with your parents.
But I think it'sone of the most important.
Right?
Because at the end of the day,we care so much about what
(06:13):
our parents think, regardlessof what our relationship is with them.
Right?
Like, generally speaking,I think just as human beings
like we wantand we crave our parents approval.
And so this is oftenone of the stickiest points, I would say,
as far as that relationship dynamicand the ability to go like, I'm
moving forward with this because we havefor most of our lives, at least for mine,
(06:37):
it was that I really took intoconsideration my parents opinions right?
Like that's how I ended up on the pathI have had been on.
My parents said likefinance would be a good idea.
You know, I was following the good path.
I was doing all the thingsbecause of my parents in many ways.
Right?
Because they were guiding mein these directions.
(06:58):
And and if you haven't already,definitely go back
and check out my episodeabout immigrant struggles in particular,
because I talk a lotabout my own experience
and a lot of the ideas aroundhow it's been, you know, navigating that
that dynamic, right, of of havingespecially immigrant parents kind of guide
the path for you and, and how challengingit is to break away from that.
(07:21):
Right.
And so I think about that a lot,and that I chose
a lot of the things that I chosebecause of my parents and, and wanting to
make them proudand wanting to do the things
that seemed right or,or the, the right path.
Right.
And so it's
(07:42):
really, really challengingwhen we go, oh, I'm
actually going to do something differentthan the way that you've been guiding me
my entire life.
I have two very different relationshipsbetween my two parents.
You know, I I'm, I'm close with my mom.
I kind of have always brought heralong the way
and told herwhat I'm really going through.
(08:03):
And so I think that she was very muchalong the journey with me
through many, many points along the wayand with my dad.
You know, it's it's often to be honest,it's been the case
where I think I'm more afraidof what he thinks and, and his judgment.
And so I would hide a lot of things awayuntil it became kind of impossible.
(08:26):
And I don't knowif you can relate to this,
but I know
talking with a lot of my friends,that they have often been that way too,
where it's like,
you don't tell your parentsunless you really have to.
And which case is kind of a little bitlike dropping a bomb
right where you're like,oh, all of a sudden I'm nowhere.
You're like, oh, I'm doing this thing.And they're like, what?
And and so it's it'sjust been very interesting,
(08:49):
like looking at the dynamicbetween my two parents and the way
that our relationships are and the waythat these conversations have been.
And so you know, a lot of what I've beenlearning has been through the lens
of being around both of themand having them have very different,
kind of trajectory of,of following my path
(09:13):
and, and seeing, you know, I think that'swhy I want to do this because I see how
because my mom has been ableto be there along the way with me.
It allowed itso that we had more open communication.
And she knew what I was going throughand and was able to support my decision,
or at least like, understand ita little bit more than my dad was able to
(09:36):
because she was able to see,oh, Jessica's really unhappy in her job,
you know, and and you know, I, I mentionedthis in another episode, like my mom
when I was really burned out in my joband I was pushing really hard
and being like, I gotta make this work.
Like she was there backing me up, going,you don't have to do that.
You know, like, I want you to be happy.
(09:57):
And so I got to have that perspectivefrom her in a way that I'm very,
very fortunate for, you know, and,and I know a lot of people don't
have that relationship with their parentsthat maybe theirs is both their
parents are more like the relationshipI have I've had with my dad
and and so it's it'sjust been really challenging, you know,
because on the other side of it,with my dad, I'll be honest, he
(10:20):
I blindsided him a little bit, you know,and, and I take full responsibility.
But that has been the dynamicof our relationship where I was.
So, as I said, worried about his opinion
and and his perspective and knowingthat he probably wouldn't approve and
and not wanting toto broach the subject to the point where
by the time I actually did, itbecame like this giant bomb, right where
(10:43):
I'm like, I've already made the decision.
You just kind of have to get on board.
And and it was a lot more challenging.
And to be honest,
I will be completely honest.
He did not react well.
And and it really was detrimental
to our relationship for a while. And,
(11:03):
yeah, it was it was hard.
You know, Iit was really, really challenging.
I love my both my parents and
I really had to go through a lot.
And, you know, it's it's not easy.
It's not easy when, when you, like,your parents say terrible things to you,
you know, like, that becomeskind of seared into your brain
(11:25):
and you have to navigate that.
And so I am hopingthat this episode can help
someone just navigate this a little bitbetter than I did, to be honest.
And, but yeah, it's, it was really tough.
And, you know, I'm, I'm very thankfuland that I think over time
(11:45):
I have been able to build
better relationships with my parentsand build the ability for us to,
to beable to navigate this a little bit better.
But it was really, really challenging.
And, you know, andand now it's like, it's amazing.
My, my parents both really supportwhat I'm doing.
(12:05):
I mean, to the best of their ability. And
and it's, it's changed
from that initial timeand I'm very, very thankful for that.
But but it's, it's been, to be honest,
a very challenging thing.
When,when I decided to completely switch gears
from what they wanted for me,you know, and,
(12:28):
and I will say it was really challengingbecause I think
that being in finance was somethingthat my dad was really proud of.
And heit also was like a connection point.
And, and so not having that anymorewas really challenging,
but it also made me.
But I also couldn't let that stop me
from moving forward in the directionthat I really wanted to move in.
(12:50):
All right.
So that's a lot of,that's been the journey for me.
And that's really the backdropof this episode and why I'm making it.
So, so I want to, as I
said, really talk you through a little bitof how to navigate this a little,
betterin terms of that kind of before, middle
(13:13):
and after from that perspective of like,how can we have these deep,
difficult conversationswith our family members
and in particular with our parents and,and be able to navigate that?
Okay.
So let's talka little bit about the before I,
I will say that as much as you can kindof bring people along the way with you,
(13:35):
it is really beneficialjust so that they can see the journey and,
and kind of understand a little bit of whyyou're making this change.
You know, just as I explainedwith the complete difference
between my two parentsand how I was navigating it.
But here's the thing.
One of the most important things,I think, for yourself to do
(13:57):
when you are navigatingthese kind of conversations
is to really ground yourselfin your own. Why?
Why do you want to make thiscareer change?
Why do you want to move forwardin this direction?
Like what is that deepest inner why?
And and one of the best exercises to dois literally to ask yourself
(14:17):
why five times and just keep diggingin deeper and deeper to like, what is that
deepest rooted core of why you are lookingto make this change happen in your life?
And because I think it's so importantto hold ourselves true to that.
Here's the thing is,no matter how these conversations go,
it is so easy for usto get knocked around by our parents.
(14:40):
Let's be honest, right?
Like our parents,as I said, have been our guides.
They've been that kind of point of wisdomfor many of us.
And and so it's so easyfor us to get rocked or uprooted
from what we're doingif we're not firmly rooted down
in terms of our why,when they're questioning
why you're doing this or what,you're moving forward in this direction,
(15:03):
like holding true to that innerwhy is going to help you
from from kind of letting yourselfget thrown around.
And the second thingis to really take note of like,
what are questions that I thinkthat my parents will ask of me?
And mind you, I'm going to say parents,but this is whoever you're talking to.
But for parents, like, what are the thingsthat they're going to ask you?
(15:24):
They're probably going to ask you about,like,
how are you planning to support yourselffinancially? Right.
They're probably going to ask youlike what your what your kind of plan is.
And so having some frameworkor some idea of these things
and kind of anticipatingsome of these questions will help you
navigate when you're in the conversation,you're not going to have all the answers.
Let's be clear.
But to the best of your ability,
(15:45):
when you can kind ofhave a little bit of that base groundwork
of what you think they will askyou and be firmly rooted in your why,
that is going to tremendously help youwhen you go into these conversations.
At the end of the day,one of the biggest things
that you want to be able toexemplify is your own safety
that you have kind oflike a plan of action
(16:06):
in terms of financial safety,or like making sure that you have a roof
over your head and food on your tableand all those basic needs
that you have already thoughtthrough, how to keep yourself safe and
and being able to answer those questionsis going to show them like a you've
thought about it and and be like,you're serious, right?
Like you are seriousabout making this change happen.
(16:26):
And so it's so important,as much as you can get
some of that groundwork out of the way,just so you go in feeling
some sense of like comfortand, and rootedness
in the directionthat you're trying to move in.
Okay, so now that we talked about
before the conversation, let's talkabout during the conversation.
So during the conversation hereare some of the things that I think about.
(16:49):
I want you to remember that
you and your parentsare coming from different perspectives.
And at the end of the day, your parentshave lived a different life than you.
They've livedin a different generation than you.
If they're immigrantsand you grew up in the country,
that's going to give youdifferent perspectives.
Whatever the case may be,I just want you to remind yourself
that it's normal, that they might notentirely see and completely
(17:13):
understand where you're coming fromright off the bat,
because they're comingfrom a completely different perspective.
And and so I think it's so importantto kind of ground ourselves in that,
in the fact that, like, that's normal.
It's normal that they're going to thinkthat this is very out there
because it's not somethingthat they probably would have considered.
It's not somethingthat was really on the table for them.
(17:36):
And, you know, in particular,if you have parents who are immigrants,
it's like theytheir whole thing has been having safety,
establishing themselves in this country,setting you up for success.
And so of course, it's going to feelreally, really earth shattering if you are
steering away from the stable lifethat they have been building for you.
(17:59):
And and so I think normalizing the factthat like this makes sense
of why they are feeling this wayand being okay with that.
Right.
Like feeling like it's okay, we're goingto be on three different pages.
But that doesn't change the factthat, like, I need to express to you
that this is what I want to doand the direction I want to move in.
I want us to have empathy and compassionfor our parents,
(18:21):
because at the end of the day, liketheir whole job has been to keep you safe.
And that is what they're trying to doin this conversation.
And so grounding yourself in thatand that fact and knowing that
they're theyare still trying to do the best for you
to the best of their ability.
And even if it doesn't seemlike that, it's okay.
(18:42):
And second to thatis that you cannot control their reaction.
And so I think reminding ourselves,like I am going to,
you know, as I said,prepare to the best of my ability.
Remember that we are different people.
They're goingto have different perspectives.
And that's okay.
And know that, like,you can't control their reaction.
(19:03):
And and so no matterwhat, like these are still your parents.
They still love you.
And and even if they don't react
well that's that fact is not untrue.
And you know, for myself, I remember
when I went through the whole thingthat I explained with my dad,
(19:24):
he did not react well, and he
said some frankly awful things to me.
And as much as I've had to livewith that and,
you know, that definitelywas an incredibly difficult time for me.
I also had to look at it and go,
as hard as it is.
As much as he isnot able to express this in a
(19:46):
in a good way, that's beneficial.
I know that, he says these terrible thingsto me because he does care,
and because he loves me andand he wants to keep me safe.
And and I know that might be difficultfor you to see, especially in the moments,
but I don't know, I,I choose to see it with love
(20:08):
and and not to look at it as it's coming
from a place of like, deep horribleness.
Because I know that
that is the essence of our relationship.
And, and it's just thatI am veering off course
and it is disrupting his senseof stability and livelihood.
(20:30):
And, you know, everything that he's workedso hard for.
And and so I think navigatinga lot of this comes down to like
remembering that there is love there,even when it doesn't feel like it.
And I, you know, I'm kind of talking youthrough like a worst case scenario.
And, you know, hopefullyyou'll end up somewhere in the middle.
(20:51):
But I want to I want to be upfrontbecause I lived through that.
And yes, it was incredibly painful.
And and I had to come back to itand see it
as a,as it coming from a place of love and care
and, and and remembering, like,my parents are human.
And, you know, I was I was talking ona podcast episode, on a podcast interview
(21:16):
about how
our, our parents are imperfecthuman beings.
And, and I think that that is somethingreally important to note.
Right?
Like they are not perfect beingsand they might not react well
and they might say the wrong thing,
but they're doing the best that they can.
(21:37):
And, and I think it's, it's interesting,right.
Because we, we want to imaginethat our parents are perfect
and we can pedestals themfor much of our lives.
And, and I think it's really,really important to to remind ourselves,
like they also are peopleand they also make mistakes.
And they also might say the wrong thing
(22:00):
or do something that is is like,not great.
And it doesn't change the factthat we will still love them.
And, you know, it's it's interesting
because I think about the relationshipwith our families, right?
And how it's like, well,you are born into this family and, and we,
(22:20):
we need to navigate these relationships
because we are tied to our familythrough this lifetime.
It's such a practice groundfor unconditional love
and so even when my parents disappointor upset me,
it is it is a practice of of me
being able to exemplifyunconditional love, right?
(22:40):
Like even when they might hurt my feelingsor say something that that does not sit
well with me, how can I still expressunconditional love to them?
Who? This is a heavy episode.
All right,so now that we've talked about before
and during, let's talk about after.
And here's the thingis, the aftermath obviously
(23:03):
is a lot longer of a time than the beforeand the during.
And and it's going to be an evolution.
And depending on how that conversationwent, it's
like things are going to unfoldin different ways.
You know, maybe theythey've they are fully supportive
and you can continue talking with themand everything like that.
(23:23):
But I do want to talkabout the possibility of
when these conversations don't go well,you know, and if that is the case, again,
it is holding loving compassionfor our family and for ourselves.
It is challenging
when these conversations don'tgo the way that we would like them to.
We would love for us to have easyconversations all the time.
(23:47):
But naturally when we have difficultconversations like there is,
there is tension, there is stress,there is the
there is a lot to navigate here.
And so to the best of your abilityto pour on, as much compassion
for yourself and for your parentsis the best thing to do.
If it is the case that your parentsare having a hard time supporting you,
(24:10):
I think it's importantto set good boundaries to be able to say
like, you know, maybe you want to continuebeing able to talk to them,
but it's like this did not go welland you don't want to talk about it.
Well then don't I'll be honest with you.
I would say take that topic,take that topic off the table temporarily.
You know, maybe it won't be forever,but maybe in the aftermath of this,
(24:34):
you need to say, hey,I don't want to talk about this right now.
Like I am still moving in this directionif you don't support it, I understand,
but I don't want to talk
about it for a timeand let it be off the table for a while
and then, you know, slowly,maybe like with some time and some space,
you're able to have a little bitmore conversation about it.
(24:56):
But in the initial aftermath,if you need to hold strong boundaries
and not discuss it,you do that for yourself.
That is holding compassion for yourselfand that is super important.
Here's the other thing I,
I had I heard this from JTand it really struck a chord with me.
It was him saying someone had asked themsomething along the lines of
(25:19):
what is something that you used to value?
That you no longer value?
And his answer was being understood.
And I've thought about that so muchbecause it's like
we as humanbeings just want to be understood.
We want people to really like, see usand what we're doing and get it.
And here's the thingnot everyone is going to and
(25:39):
and I think it's hardest when it isyour parents that are not getting it.
And as I've navigated through all this,I realized
just the power of being comfortable,being misunderstood.
It is powerful.
And so the more that you can go,you know what?
They might not understand what I'm doing,but it's okay.
(26:02):
It does not change the fact that this iswhat is meant for me.
It does not change the factthat I am going in this direction.
It does not change that fact.
And I think that the more that you canground yourself and root yourself in.
And that's why step one,I talk to you about your why.
That right there is how you go.
(26:23):
It's okay that they all understand me.
I know why I'm doing this.
I know why this is important to me andimportant for me to move forward in this
and at the end of the day, holding true tothat is going to help you so, so much.
For anyone listening to this,I want you to realize, like, it is okay
if people misunderstand youand and to me, it's like maybe you have
(26:48):
I think it's almost like
it's the idea of you're given familyin your chosen family.
It's like finding that chosen familythat does get you, that does understand
you, that totally is with youand what you're doing.
And mind you, it's like even those peoplemight not totally understand you.
You know, maybe they understandlittle facets of you,
but build up that ability to golike I have my chosen family
(27:11):
and or I have this one personwho really gets what I'm doing
that is going to fundamentally helpyou navigate all of this
a little bit easier,because you know that you're not alone.
But no matter what,I want you to remember,
and I want you to hear me right nowwhen I say that you are not alone.
And. And I've been in your shoes.
So many,all of my clients have been in your shoes.
(27:34):
So many people that I talkto have been in your shoes.
And you're not alone. And.
And as hard as it may seem to move forward
and somethingthat is going against the grain and, and
I like to think of the analogy of like,
you're swimming up riverwhen everyone else is swimming downstream.
And it's like, why is this so hard? Well,of course it's so hard.
(27:55):
You are swimming upstreamwhen everyone else is going downstream
and you're like, something's wrong.Nothing is wrong.
When you really look around,you're going to realize
there are all these other fishswimming upstream with you.
And and I want you to remind yourself,
like you're not aloneand you're not the only one doing this.
And it isit is honestly the most beautiful,
(28:16):
incredible,courageous thing to decide for yourself
that you are going to move upstreamwhen everyone else is going downstream.
So I think grounding ourselves in the fact
that, like, it'sokay to be misunderstood, it's okay
for not everyone to get what you're doingand that's that's okay.
That doesn't mean it's wrong.
(28:36):
That doesn't mean it's not for you.
And and when you really listento that gut, that gut
feeling that's telling youlike this is the way to move,
it's beautiful.
And it means so much.
So at the end of the day,I just want you to remember boundaries.
Boundaries are great.
And the thing is,I think we think that boundaries
(28:57):
are going to hurt our relationships,but they are actually going to benefit
our relationships, especially if we'renavigating these difficult conversations
because it is going to help usstill keep the relationship right.
Like still keep it intact and go, okay,but we don't
we're not going to touch these thingsright now.
(29:18):
And that's okay.
It's okay to say, I don't reallywant to talk about this right now.
It's okay to advocate for our own needs.
Okay.
So I think that's thatthose are my thoughts on kind
of the before,the during and the after of these,
navigating these conversations.
And so ultimately,I just want you to remember
(29:39):
that you are amazingand your courage and your ability to go.
I want to have these conversations.
I want to move forward in the directionthat makes sense for me
is just the most incredibleact of bravery.
I hope that this has been helpful,and I hope that you can give yourself
so much compassionthrough the entire process, no matter
what happens, and allow yourselfto be grounded firmly in the fact that
(30:04):
whatever it is that your gut is tellingyou is meant for you.
So thank you so, so much.
I, I have to give myself a momentright now and be like,
I am appreciating myselffor getting through this episode
because as I mentioned at the beginning,
this is not been an easy episodefor me to record.
(30:24):
And and I think I was shying away fromit for, for a while, but I,
I really hope that
this is helping youand I, I really hope that this can benefit
your own relationship and your own abilityto have these difficult conversations.
So thank you.
So, so, so very muchfor listening to this episode,
(30:44):
and I will see you on the next one.
Want to create more flow in your life?
Go to the show notesand sign up for the email list.
I'll be sharing more strategiesand insights
with youjust like the ones you heard today.
Remember, the power to create the lifeyou desire resides within you.
And I'm here to support youevery step of the way.
(31:07):
The world needs what you will create.
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