066 - Creativity, Collaboration, Chaos: A Real Conversation with my Editor, Travis Carr - Permission to Flow

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, guys.

(00:01):
So we just recorded an entire episodeof Permission to Flow.
This is Jessica, your lovely host.
I'm the editor, Travis.
And this started because I was goofing off
and just testing out
the new, incredible studio and the lightsand the new camera set up and all that.
And then we talked for 2.5 hours.

(00:24):
How do you feel?
How do you feel about it?
I feel great. Honestly, I.
It felt nice because you were asking methings that I actually haven't
thought about in a while, especiallygoing back into how do we get here?
And, so it was it was a fun.
It was a fun journey.Yeah, I guess content wise.
So we prepped the audience on, like,what we talked about or.

(00:46):
Sure. New studio
talked about that.
Yeah.
Well, first off, this is the first timethat we're recording.
As with, like, a guest,
and that's me in this.
That's weird.
basically what was happeningis this morning, actually, I recorded
the first okay, actual episode,but this is the first guest episode

(01:12):
that just kind of spontaneously happened.
So you got a lot of us bantering,but you also got us.
I mean, Travis is asking mea lot of really great,
deep questionsabout how I ended up starting this podcast
and moving into coaching and leaving,quitting my job.

(01:33):
And yeah, it was really nice.
I mean, what else are we talking about?
Philosophy behind the name,
scary things about the election.
Or not scary things, but just like,approaching uncertainty, I would say.
And creating this studio space,creating the studio space,
designing the life that you want.

(01:54):
Yeah, very,
a broad range of topics that probably isnot in line with.
It definitely is not in line withthe typical episode, but, I don't know.
I think the spontaneity is is really cool.
And, Jessica and I have talkeda little bit
about me being on the podcast,which I was a little hesitant about,
but I'm a, goofy person

(02:16):
by nature, and,I really like the new studio.
And so it was very I was just goofing off.
And then we sat down and started talkingand yeah, that's the episode, I would say.
Yeah.
I think this is hilariousbecause I planted the seed
and then you were concerned
about coming on the podcast,and I was like, no worries.
Like at all.It'll happen when it needs to.

(02:37):
And then you cameand created this yourself.
That's not me whatsoever.
No no no no no no. Let's be real. You.
This entire thing is because youyou made it happen.
I think it's hilarious because you kickedoff this episode, which I think.
Oh, it's so interesting.
It's going to throw people off,which I think is hilarious.

(02:57):
We'll see how that goes.
But yes, I am your host,
Jessica Wang, that you are usedto seeing on this podcast.
And this is Travis.
Travis is the editor of the podcast.
But Travis is also, I don't know,I feel like you hold a lot of roles
at this point.
So I have taken to calling you mycollaborator because it's oh, yeah, yeah.

(03:20):
It's like been difficult to I'm like,if I call you my editor,
it feels like I'm minimizingwhat you're doing.
But Travis is the one that's been behind
the sceneshelping me create all kinds of things.
He has become my personal photographer.
He is my editor.

(03:40):
He is creating a lot of the, like,all the social content. And.
Yeah, so there there is a lot.
He's wearing a lot of hats over here and
stress inducer and Chaos creator.
But yeah, I mean, he also does likeit was the one that like created
the look of the podcaston the other side of my television.

(04:03):
People that people aren'tgoing to know what that means.
The otherthe other, backdrop that you see Jess in.
Yeah, she's typically recording herher solo episodes
when you're watching YouTube.
If you're or on Instagram,for that matter, the other set up
that was a Travis Carter creation,not me. So.
But yeah, because there's tons of thingsgoing on behind the scenes that, that,

(04:27):
that you are a part of,which I'm very, very thankful for.
Thanks, man.
Yeah.
I hope it makes up for someof the, the stress that.
You'll hear a little
bit about that in the episode.
This is becoming a very long introand is becoming a long intro.
I guess.
Welcome to permission of,

(04:50):
let's get into today's episode.
Welcome to Permission to Flow.
This podcast is dedicatedto lighting the way
towards greatercreativity, purpose and inner peace.
I'm your host, Jessica Huang.
I'm a second generationTaiwanese-American.

(05:10):
I spent ten yearschasing the so-called American Dream
while working in corporate finance,before making the pivot
into my purposeas a career transition coach.
Podcaster and dharma yoga instructor.
Through a combinationof courage and curiosity.
I built a career and life
that is aligned with my unique talentsand authentic self.

(05:34):
Now I'm on a mission to help 9 to 5 years
pivot into a creative or wellness career.
Whether you want to be a yogainstructor, artist, writer,
entrepreneur, or any othercreative venture, it's time for you
to give yourself permission to flow,explore and create the life that you want.

(05:54):
world needs what you will create.
sometimes Jess will
literally talk to mewhen she's filming a podcast.
And me, like,
so this is how you approachcreating a better life.
You know what, Travis?
Hold on. We're going to go backand we're going to cut that out. And I do.

(06:16):
It always gives me a chucklebecause I'm like, it's eerie.
It's this person from like the pasttalking to me as I'm editing
and she's like,oh, isn't that weird? Yeah.
It's like you from.
Yeah, like three hours behind. Right.
All right.
Three hours ago talking to me and.
Yeah.
So, wait, are you plugged in now?
Do I, I think I am, yeah.

(06:38):
I see the little thing moving for mic to.
Whoa. So we're fully right.
Okay.
Wait, so this is like the first,the first, test episode of,
an interview style podcast.
That's that's right. Yeah. Okay.
You know, we're actually going towe're not going to film a full
this is not a full length podcast

(06:59):
because I don't want to edita full length podcast.
But I do want to ask Jessica.
Yeah.
How do you feel now that you're sittingin a fully built out, newly created
Permissionto Flow podcast studio to be honest,
it's it's it's wild.
I was thinking about this.

(07:19):
I think it's the coolest freaking thing
when you have this wild ideakind of brewing in your head,
and then you slowly start to make it real.
And every step of the way, I was like,
oh, wait,this is starting to become a real thing.
Like, it was wild.
And now to have it be done.

(07:40):
And honestly, it looks even betterthan what my little imagination
could create it.
Yeah, it's is just it's insane.
It's actually insanebecause I and I think because there were
a lot of delays along the way,there was a lot of things happening.
A lot of that was my fault for the peoplethat was not no, it's the sign.

(08:02):
Like the sign took a really long timeand I was waiting on it
and my apartment was a messand I was starting to lose it.
But it was worth it.
And I think even when I'mfrustrated, I, I, I, I've always had this
like feeling where to me,I live in kind of like the ends justify

(08:23):
the means type of mentalitywhere I'm like, I'm willing
to put in the workand the hard quote unquote struggle
because I just firmly believethat it will be worth it.
Yeah.
And I think that creatingthis had a lot of moments
that were sitting in that headspacewhere I was like, I know

(08:46):
that it is worth all the headachesand all the frustration
and sleepless nights and like,you know, all these like, moments
because I get to watch my dreambecome a reality.
Yeah, yeah.
We've had a lot of conversations recentlyabout being in the struggle and being
in like the
self-induced often.

(09:08):
Like. Yeah.
And that comes with like,
I mean, I just quit my job and now I'mlike, in New York City and all of that.
And you are in the like, furtheralong in that process.
But can you this this is a good question.
I think, say so.
This is like a microcosm,
I would say, of that processof being in a creative field,

(09:30):
trying to make it work,trying to figure things out
where how does it feel to
just be on the other side of thatfor this project in particular?
Like, are you relieved? Are you happy?
Do you it did justify the means for youto be sitting in this space right now
and in the studio?
I'm frickin ecstatic.
Come on.
And and I think it's what's extranice is being able

(09:54):
to have people come into itand share the experience,
because I would say for myself alone,even when I finished it, like
when it was done yesterday, I was like,wow, it's done like it's it's completed.
But then getting to share that experiencewith people in my life.
Like, I was talking with a friendlast night and then you coming over

(10:14):
and and other peoplealso getting to experience it.
I think that has only magnifiedthe feeling for me.
And I think that's
what's so cool about creating somethingthat is not, you know, like prototypical
and yet in line with expectationsof society and all that or,
yes, that actuallywasn't even what I was thinking about.

(10:35):
It was just this idea of like when you'rebecause I think it's interesting.
Right?
Like the idea of creating for creationsake and or creating for yourself
is very important.
But I think it's also really funwhen you're creating for the sake of like,
doing somethingthat other people get to be a part of.
Yeah. And get to experience with you.
There's just this level of like exciting

(10:56):
and, and and getting to be like,oh, look at this cool thing.
And we both get to likekind of hype each other up in a way.
And so it'sI don't know, it's just very fun.
I and every single piece,it's like there's so many layers to it
where it's like, okay, yesterdayI got to go, I'm done.
TodayI got to go, oh, I got to shoot in it.
Yeah.

(11:16):
You know, and then next week I get to go,oh I get to shoot interviews in it.
Yeah.
And and so it just builds I think
the what's the it's like rising tidesraise all ships.
And especially in a creative field,I feel like letting go of your ego and
especially in, like, a placethat's as competitive as New York City

(11:37):
and being able to find like,that community and things that help build
that and things that bring people togetherin a way that's inspiring and not like,
well, one draining,
but also, just like real and connecting.
I think that's that's like very important.
Can I ask you a question?
Of course.
What's next.
Yeah.

(11:57):
What is next.
Well it's never over you know for those
like if you dive into this worldsof like creative
I don't know lifestyle it's never overand that is.
Yeah. But what is next.
Well you know along that question thoughI think it's
so important to respect the momentthat you are having

(12:20):
that first and foremost,because I think it is
very easy to get caught up in thewhat is next question,
okay.
And get lost in itand stop appreciating this moment.
And so I first love to acknowledge, like,
how great is it to be right where you are?
How great is it to be right here in thewhat I it's funny,

(12:45):
I was saying this in the podcastI was recording this morning.
It's like being in the becoming.
Oh, and yeah,I love the idea of being in the becoming.
And so it's like right nowI'm like, no, I'm, I'm like,
I'm so freaking happy right here,
right now, today to be like,the studio is done.

(13:07):
I got to record my first episode in it
and and just relish in that.
And to answer your actual questionof what is next, man?
There are so many incredibleguest podcasts
that I have been waiting on to record
until this got done.

(13:27):
And here we go.
Here and here they come.
And I'm like,I can actually do it because I seriously.
I had put a pause. Yeah, I'm doing things.
And it's interestingwhen you're in creative ventures
where it's like,sometimes you have to pause on one thing
and then shift your, your mental spaceto another one.

(13:48):
And, and things are there'sgoing to be all these moving pieces
and, and being okay with that.
And for those who didn't just sayI just kicked ass, sorry.
I continue to cross my legs. All good.
Don't ever die. But.
But I think it's
so it's like I,I'm bubbling with excitement

(14:10):
as well on both fronts and taking a moment
to just super appreciate this momentthat I think
is a really good perspective that I.
I struggle with a lot,
and I think you know that about me,that I am very all over the place.
And sometimes that takes awayfrom the things

(14:30):
that are literally right in front of me.
But I think what you just said about,
like.
The excitement
bubbling like that leads to momentum,
and that leads to your cup being filled upfor the next one you always hear,
hey, trust the process,trust the moment that you're in.
But to see it, like,really rewarded by the struggle and,

(14:55):
yeah, lead to some really exciting things.
It's cool to see that manifestliterally like right now in the studio
that we're sitting in with the thingsthat are being filmed next week
with whatever's coming down the line,like that's, that's really exciting.
And you should you should be really,really proud because this is it's cool.
And it happenedbecause you made it. And that's. Yeah.

(15:17):
Thank you.
If I've learned anything from
oh, no,
if I learned anything from, you.
And that's it.
Travis, let's cut back for you. Try again.
Add this to the blooper reel.
But now, if I've learned anything from you

(15:38):
working with you in the last, like,what, two months?
Three months that it's been.
It is tenacityand just trusting the process
that like, the things that you believe inand the things that you want to create
are fucking worth fighting for,and that is yeah, that's really powerful.
And here we are.
And to see it, like, manifest ina very tangible like that's a real sign.

(16:00):
It's there in a, in a tangible way.
That's it's it's inspiring for sure.
And yeah, you should be really proud.
Thank you.
I love that.
Yeah. You're welcome.
But, yeah, I,
I think it's, it's interestingbecause, yeah, I,
I think we all getso caught up in the striving

(16:22):
and the chasingand the going after things,
and we it's so easy to losesight of what's happening right now.
Yeah.
And the beauty of lifeis in the right now.
And it's, it's interesting because I,you know, they certainly been moments
along the wayof creating this podcast studio
where I definitely lost sight of it.

(16:42):
And, and I will say when you arein that time where you, you're like,
oh, I can't do the thingI really want to do because I'm
building something, you know, like,I could not really do interviews.
I mean, I could have, online,but I didn't want to write.
And so I had to pause on this thingthat I love doing.
I love doing interviews,but I had to pause it

(17:04):
so I could make this happenin service of that.
Yeah.
And and I will say that that's incrediblyfrustrating as a creative
because it's you areyou want to be in that flow.
You want to just keep doing.
You want to keep creating.
And it's it was interesting because it waslike I had to redirect my energy.
Yeah.
And I had to redirect my energybe put through, like really put

(17:28):
so much energy into this creation and feelokay about that.
And, and no, it'sokay that you're not creating interviews
that are going to go out into the worldright now. Yeah.
And I think that's really hard to dosometimes because it's like
it's it's like, oh,but I want to get all the stuff out there.
And, and sometimes that trustingthe process

(17:50):
means trustingthat it's not going to happen right now.
Yeah.
And know that it will come. Yeah.
No that the timing will happen.
Yeah. But it's okaythat it's not right now.
And I think what you're saying earlierabout like being able
to be present that in being present in thewhen like

(18:12):
it does come full circleand watching you struggle
with even just like the concept of howthis space was going to come together.
Do we want to go find a studio?
Do we want to be like trekking all overBrooklyn, to Brooklyn for like a space
that's, you know, within the budgetand also, like, just feasible, feasibly

(18:33):
going to lend,
to, like a seamless creation process,like with gear and with
I mean, we were just talking about that,with the social media stuff like
we well, for context,we spent like a month or more
trying to figure out a way to make contentthat just doesn't have as many barriers
in front of it.

(18:53):
And I mean that in itself.
And like figuring out your processand testing the waters
and seeing what worksand what doesn't, like all of that,
both, both conceptuallyand then watching it literally play out.
It's very, very,
the word that's come to mindis vindicated.
I don't know if that's correct.
It probably isn't, but it's worth it is.

(19:14):
The thing that I'm trying to sayis that, like watching all the struggle
and watching all of the painand watching all of the like, the, like,
hair pulling frustrationthat I contributed to.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it is worth it.
And very, yeah, just it's really fuckingcool to to see it come together.
And now we have like the tools to

(19:35):
you have the tools to make creationmore seamless.
Going forwardbecause you invested that energy upfront
and because you went through the shotgun,because that like dark forest
of uncertainty that you were in forso long
was conquered in a way.
And I think that's really yeah,that's cool.
I think it's interestingbecause even right now, as we were saying,

(19:57):
that, I was like, wow, yes,I firmly agree with all of that,
and I'm excited to see it keep going.
And and I think that that'swhat's so interesting is, is the fact
that you're constantly adjusting, fixing,
getting better at thingsover and over and over again.

(20:19):
We're always getting better.
And I think that knowing that and and it's
almost like putting in the wrapsis the phrase I like to think of.
Yeah.
Because I, I think we're in likesuch a cool moment right here where it's,
it is getting to see such a big shift
from where we startedand all these other moments

(20:39):
where we've been like pulling our hair out
and going, oh my God,can we figure this out or whatever? And
I can see
how, oh, we've evolved in a certain wayand things are getting easier
and we're figuring them out
and I can be like,oh, and we're gonna just keep doing that,
and things are going to keepgetting better and keep moving forward.

(21:00):
And I think that that is really cool.
That's like the momentumthat you were talking about.
Yeah, I think
the idea that the challengesthat you're presented with
are going to grow as you do,and your capacity to handle them
is also going to grow as you keep goingforward and keep building
momentum like that is absolutely.
Yeah, that's the whole thing.And that's the process.

(21:21):
I think it's so cool
because so this is somethingthat I was reflecting on recently.
So when I look at the thingsthat were challenging me
at the beginning of this year,
it's so funny to
me because I look at them and I'm like,oh, they were like, second nature.
They're not big deals to me anymore.
You know?
And I'm going to feel that way about this,about the things that we're struggling

(21:43):
with now where it's like,oh, we will move past these at some point.
And then to your point,we'll get presented with new challenges,
and then we're going to figure those outand then move on.
And I think that we want to believethat life
eventually will like thethose things get easy, right.
Those things that we overcame,those challenges,

(22:04):
they do get easy,but then we get new challenges. Yeah.
And instead of lookingat that as a problem, it's
actually looking at thatas a sign of success.
Yeah.
Yeah I think they don't get easier.
You get stronger. Like that is the thing.
And that like growth mindsetfor growth mindset versus
static mindset, your capacityto take on the things that are coming.

(22:27):
That and it's not just your capacity,it's your belief in your capacity
to take on the things that are challengingyou now and that you're going to be able
to grow into them in the future.
That is fundamentally like square one,
to being able to chasethe things that you want.
And I am in that right now.
And like, again, you
you have been a person that has helped mejust realize that the things

(22:49):
that are struggling withare within my capacity to, to handle.
And that is an incredibly,incredibly powerful notion
that if you can get behindand if you can really like,
just embrace as a lifestyle choice,as like a thing
that is a part of who you are,the ability to grow,
that is just gamechanging on another level.

(23:11):
And that's continually going to be,
challenged.
But yeah,like you're going to get stronger.
And the more that you do that,the more you're going to surround yourself
with peoplethat are also going to affirm that
and that are also going to support youin that journey.
And then it comes back to rising tides.
And like they raise all shipsand that's your own rising tide within,

(23:32):
like your own struggleand your capacity to grow in the community
that that you build around youand the world that you want to create.
Like the more that you've put into it,
the more it's going to happen,and the more it's going to lend itself
to, you know, like pressing forward.
I'm obsessed with your phrase of raisingtides,
rising tide, rising tides, raisingtall ships.

(23:52):
I'm like, not mine, it's not mine.
It's that's like that's regardless.
Yeah. Obsessed with that phrase.
It's freaking brilliant.
But yeah, I love thatbecause what you're speaking
to is the ability to have self-belief.Yeah.
And and I think that a lot of us strugglewith this.
I certainly struggled with that.
I don't think I,

(24:13):
I did not have that at
all prior to doing all of this.
And, and it's something that I thinkbecause
who I know you to be now is like,totally not like you.
You are just we're going to fucking dolike the studio, like you.
You're just we're going to make it happen.And then you did so.
That's like that's cool.
I did not have self-belief, I did not.

(24:34):
And I think it's, it's interestingbecause I,
I think that's probably something I needto talk about more is the amount that I,
I always think it's so interestingthe version that you got to meet me. Yes.
I mean yeah is a totally different personthan who I was
certainly five years ago,you know, or whatever the case may be.

(24:57):
But yeah,self-belief is not something I had.
Because I firmly was just likeoh I just do what I do.
Like I was thinking about this ideathe other day, I was like the word
that I would describe myself, looking back
as the person I was is like
un extraordinary.
Like I was just kind of there.

(25:18):
And I think I feel that likeI love my previous versions of myself.
Like,let me be clear. Like I think she is,
I don't think she realized how amazing
she was, is the way I look at my past self
and I think that therewas this lack of confidence
and this lack of belief in the factthat I could do any of these things, I.

(25:40):
I never thoughtI would be an entrepreneur.
I never thought I would do absolutelyany of the things that I'm doing right
now, like, let me tell you this.
And I, I think it's amazingwhen people are like, oh,
I knew from day one that I was going to doXYZ thing, like, God bless you.
That must be amazing.
That must be freaking amazing.
God bless their hearts. I

(26:03):
isn'tthe southern thing you could have said,
but it's true.
Like I had no to me.
I had no business doing what I do now.
I have no background in it.
I did not study for these things.
I mean, I was a psych minor.
I mean, let that be a sample of those,you know, like you're like.

(26:24):
I have a lot of thoughtson what you're saying right now.
Yeah.
But it like thatfundamentally comes back to you
believing that you can be something otherthan, like what you're told to believe.
But the thing that you said justthen was you didn't feel extraordinary.
And that is like asking everybody, right?
Like every single personin your life, like,

(26:48):
I think it comes down to like,we're all equal in a way.
Like we're allwe're all just human beings.
And that word of average,I don't think, means,
it doesn'thave to be a negative connotation.
I think that can like if you look at
square one as like average,that's an opportunity,

(27:08):
you know, and that's not just like aoh, I'm an extraordinary.
So I'm not worth anything.
It's I'm, I get to start hereand then you get to build.
And I think that is like I get likecoming back to the idea that you can just
sorry,you can create the world that you want,
and you can create the version of yourselfthat you want, even if it's like nothing

(27:28):
that you would thinkyou have any business doing.
And like that is a powerful, powerful,powerful message
for anybody watching this.
Like, and believe me, I'm
I'm looking up atyou as like somebody who has
who was much further along in this journeythan I am.
And it's.
Yeah, it'sjust a very powerful thing to hear.

(27:49):
Because, yeah, like, if you're not LeBronJames, you know, if you're not like,
I don't know,
like Michelle Obamaor like any of these people who are like,
incredibly extraordinary, just naturally,
and even that idea, I would challengeis that, like, it's
not just a natural inclination like,you have to you have to work for it.

(28:10):
And yeah, like that, I think is comfortingto a lot of people who, you know.
Yeah, just feel like I'm just me here.
I'm just average.
It's not a bad thing.
It just means you get the opportunityto do.
Yeah. To take the next step.
Well, and the thing that I thinkis really interesting about that is

(28:32):
even hearing, you know, and
I appreciate everything you say,and it means a lot.
And it's very interestingbecause when I look at myself,
it I don't think that I am
some like an crazy pillar of everythingor anything like that.
Like to me, it's just thatI happened to be someone who was just

(28:53):
going along the tried and true pathand decided to turn against that.
And can I interrupt you? Yes.
Where where where did that start?
Like where did
the idea for all of this come from?
Because I don't think I've ever heardthat, like full story, like,
and say as much as you wantor as little as you want.

(29:13):
Wait, so you mean in terms of how did Ilike what what got you on this path?
All right.
Here's the thing isI made a lot of choices of not doing this.
I got laid off from my job at one point.
Whoa.I didn't know that. You didn't know that.
I worked like, you know, I was telling youearlier about complacency.
That was me.

(29:33):
I was living in complacency.
I had a really cushy 9 to 5 job where
I could have started something on the sideif I wanted to,
but I did it because I.
I had this feeling that
I literally thought that I
would work in corporatefor the rest of my life,

(29:54):
legitimately.
I had a woman tell me I was destined
to be an entrepreneur,and I thought she was out of her mind.
I kid you not.
I was like, lady,you are out of your mind.
What do you think led her to say that?
Like in that world when you were workingin corporate, what do you think?
Like? Well, she wasshe wasn't in corporate world.
She was like, there was some ladythat stopped me on the street.

(30:16):
Actually, she was like, intuitivelytelling me things and.
Yeah. And I that's the wild.
Yeah. It was it was wild.
It was wild.
I and I remember itso distinctly I was right,
I was walking back to Penn Stationand I was right in front of Macy's
and this woman, sassy,
on the street, and she's like, hey,I need to tell you some things.

(30:36):
And I was like, okay, I don't remember.
I like,I think I wrote them down at one point,
but the main onethat I remember her saying to me is,
you one day will own your own business.
And I remember walking away and going,that lady is out of her mind.
Like none of the things that she saidmust be true, because that one

(30:57):
right there cannot possibly be true.
You okay? That's a wild story. Yeah, like.
I mean, I guess welcome
to New York,but that's like really a wild.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
And you like. Yeah.I thought she was crazy.
And it was interestingbecause at the time, I was dating someone

(31:18):
who always wanted to be an entrepreneur,like, came from an entrepreneurial family.
And so I was thinking to myself, oh, no,that's for him, not for me.
Interesting.
He's the entrepreneur, not me. Like that.
Same path.
Isn't that funny?
Like the freaking hilarious to me now.
And yeah,and so I spent so much of my life

(31:40):
thinking that there is no way, there'sno way that I would do anything like this.
Absolutely not.
So how did I get here?
Well, honestly, what happened was I chosenot to to pursue things for so long.
And I was like,I'm just going to stick with it.
I'm going to make finance work.And I tried everything.
I tried different types of finance roles.

(32:02):
I tried different types of companies.
I was thinking about getting my MBAand going into maybe marketing.
Like I venturethrough every single possible scenario
that kept me in the frameworkof where I was right where I was like, oh,
I can move. Like here,
I can move here.
I think over like just little tiny nudges.

(32:23):
Yeah.
And I but I tried all of those nudgesand none of them were working
for me, and I had to say more about that.
What wasn't working?
I would go through these time periodsevery single time.
So I would change jobs and
and what always would happen isI would start off and I would be happy,
right?
Like, I would be like,oh, this is giving me x, y, z thing that

(32:44):
didn't have that.
The last one, I like that, you know,and then I would be there
a little bit longerand I was like, oh, I'm still miserable
that, you know, that that shininesswould always wear off and very,
very fast, to be honest, you know, and,and I, I just had this feeling of,
is this really

(33:05):
all that life is forand am I really trying to
I would look at the people ahead of me
and I would go, do I want to become them?
And my brain said, no,
I don't want to become my boss,I don't want to become my boss's boss.
I don't want to become the CFO.

(33:25):
I don't want to likenone of that was very appealing to me
because I looked at them and I was like,they're not very happy.
Like they're not like, this isn'tit just did not sit with me.
Like something just felt wrong.
Was it the
office life?
Like just the mundanenature of finance get

(33:46):
I want give me like granular detail.
Sure.
I mean,I think that there is certainly an element
of financethat causes a lot of people to leave.
Let's be honest.
There are finance people doingall kinds of wacky stuff, and I love it.
I think it's a riot,and I think that there's

(34:07):
something about the corporate worldthat just did not suit me.
And not to say that it's not,
I think that it serves a purposein many people's lives.
Like it could even be still servinga purpose in my life if I wanted to.
Like maybe it would be the thingthat would be supporting me.
You know, I think that for a lotof people, that makes a lot of sense.

(34:27):
But it wasI felt like there was a lifelessness
to what I was doing, where I did not feellike I was helping anyone.
And, and I did not realize I needed that.
And it was interesting because I remember.
So one of the big influences in my life
is Jay Shetty and I and I remember himtalking about purpose a lot

(34:49):
and he was like,
you need purpose.
Like it's importantwhen you help other people.
It causes this kind of like goodnesswithin you,
you know, like it, it brings this natural.
Yeah, I don't know, joy.
And I could not wrap my head around it.
I was like, what do you mean?

(35:10):
And I remember sitting there hearing himsay this over and over again,
and I was like, I don't get it.
I don't understandhaving purpose in your life.
Like, I just I just show up to my job.
I just do my joband I go home and I live my life,
and I don't know, somewhere
along the lines of hearingthat over and over again, I started to go,

(35:30):
well, what would it belike if I did something else?
What would it be likeif I actually cared about what I'm doing?
Because when I looked atI was working on food and beverage
and, and especially early in my career,I mean,
they weren't exactly the healthy options.
And so I, I would look at thatand I'd be like, who am I?

(35:51):
Who's benefiting?
Who is benefiting from metoiling at this job?
For me, burning out repeatedly, who like,who is really benefiting.
And I was like, yeah,it's like the shareholders, the CEO and
and to me,I was like, this isn't worth it.
And, and I just
don't fundamentally think that

(36:14):
the world needed more
beverages and,
yeah, you know, like, I mean, notthat any of these things are like,
necessarily I think there's likethis question of like, what is good
and what is bad.
And I don't think that there's necessarily
an evilto the things that I was working on.
But I also just felt like, who am I?

(36:34):
Who is what is reallyhow is this really helping people?
Yeah, I the metaphorthat's like come into my head
with that idea that it's not bad,but it's just an absence of good.
Like that's what a shadow is,you know, it's the absence of light.
And that I thinkif you're not pouring to I mean.

(36:56):
I think about this with fitness a lot.
Like if you are not actively workingto keep yourself in shape as you get
older, you're like, you're you're pushinga sled uphill basically as you get older.
And I think the same is true with life.
If you're not actively workingto improve the world
around you, it's an uphill battle.
So if you stop,you're going to go backwards.

(37:17):
And that is a very like pretty picture,
a simplistic story to tell,and it's not nuanced at all.
But I think that idea that you're workingin corporate finance,
not with a strong purpose, not with a, a
without fulfillment, basically,like you're
it's going to leadto like a very sad place if you it.

(37:41):
And tell me about how you got out of thatand how like
where did the change come from?What sparked it?
Not from a good place, let me tell you.
I burned out from myI think I burned out really, like, twice.
And it's interestingbecause the first time I burned out,
I kind of just like mustard through itand just kept going.
And you just say mustard through it?

(38:02):
Yeah, I don't know, I guess. Wait.
Yeah. No, that probably is correct.
I went to the condiment,but I feel like mustering your strength.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Continue though.
I. Yeah.
What's another word for mustard?
I muscle summoned muscle.
I muscled my way through it
as the good immigrant daughterand just was like, it'll be fine.

(38:26):
We'll just keep going.
And so during the pandemic,things got really bad.
Where,
the role that was inhad these kind of cycles where I just had
to, like, repeatedly do this, like reallybig project every single freaking month.
And it was just getting bigger and biggerand more convoluted

(38:46):
and, and I was being micromanagedon top of it.
And, and I just started
to have horrible stress around it.
And the fact that I was on a cycle,it just felt like it was never ending
and I couldn't get out of it.
And I, I will tell you, similar toI was saying was like I tried all these
different finance jobs, like I triedeverything to get out of there.

(39:09):
Like I was like,let me apply to other jobs,
let me try and get a different jobwithin my company. Let me try.
Like I knocked on every doorpossible to change my circumstances.
And nothing was opening.
And I hit this point where I wasso burned out
I had a rash on my neckthat wouldn't go away for four months.

(39:32):
I literally found the pictures.
I took pictures, just aI had this incredible, horrible
rash, and it just kept growing aroundmy neck, and.
And, like, my whole body was,like, inflamed and just really, really
awful. Like I couldn't sleep.
Well, I was just.
I was unwell, like,burnout is interesting.

(39:52):
Not everyone has these physical maladies.Yeah.
But that's great thatthat is really interesting that like the
the mental stress like translate itphysically for me at did
that is like realfor those who aren't familiar with
like the
the gut biomeand kind of the way that your neuro,

(40:14):
which I say your,
your nervous system will literally create,it'll hold
tension physically in your body, you know,hold stress physically in your body.
And that is a reallike there's research behind that.
It is real.
Absolutely.
And and it's wildbecause I, I've been watching a friend
go through a two recently and it waskind of it was breaking my heart
because I was like, oh,you're going through the same thing I did.

(40:37):
Yeah.
But yeah, it's it's crazyhow the body will react to stress.
Yeah.
And for me, I yeah, I was, I had severe
inflammation to the pointwhere it was pouring out my skin in a way.
And I couldn't sleep.
I would wake up like itchyevery single day

(40:58):
and and I just it's burnout
is this place where it's like,nothing makes you happy anymore.
Even the time that you're not in the thingthat's creating the burnout,
it's like it's it drains the lifeout of every single moment.
And and I will say, anyonethat is experiencing burnout,
I so feel for youbecause it is one of the hardest things.

(41:20):
And I think it's very,
we often will tell ourselves like,oh, we're not burned out.
Like it's not that bad.
But the reality is that itprobably is that bad.
And oftentimes we're telling ourselvesit's not that bad.
Yeah. I mean, that's like
when you're in that for a 9 to 5 like

(41:41):
that is your lifetime, like thatis your life.
Like if you are if you are in thatand living for the weekend and living for
like the 5:00 bell that go off,
you are giving up like 70% of your timeor like it's an enormous amount of of
but and I always think about like
how you spend your time, you are spending

(42:03):
spending your most valuable resourcethat you're never going
to get back doing somethingthat is like killing you.
And that's that's a dramatic thing to say.
But like, if you are not,if it's not pouring into you,
and if the financial thingand I do kind of want to ask about that,
but it is you are spending your lifetimethat you are never going to get back

(42:26):
doing something for somebody else,for somebody else's shareholders,
for a CEO salary,for somebody else's dreams.
And that is.
It's okay for some people and it worksfor some people.
It's not bad.
It's not like an evil thing,but if it's not working like
that is a scary place to be.
And that's like most peoplejust never even think about it.

(42:48):
It's like, yeah, Friday, Fridayswhen I, I live my life, and then Sunday
at like 1 p.m., I get really anxiousand then the cycle repeats.
Yeah, it is like, yeah, it's scary.
It's scary because we've normalized it.
Yeah.
It's so it's become normal, right?
It's normal to hate your joband to clock in and clock out

(43:10):
and live for those littlein between slivers of a moment.
But yeah, burnout makesyou realize those slivers of a moment
are also don't feel good either.
So that sucks.
Then you really are like,what am I left with?
Well, I mean, I think like culturally it'sbeen that way in America
probably for like 100 years,like probably more like in the industrial.

(43:31):
Yeah,the in the industrial freaking revolution.
And I think it is. Sorry.
I think it's such a privilegethat we in our generation
and the likethe way the internet has impacted
how people think about work and worklike that,
work life balance and all that,that is a privilege that, like,
I don't, I don't want to go.
I don't want to leave.

(43:52):
Understatedas it is a privilege to be able to be like
to be able to consider that,because I know my parents
probably didn't have the same optionsthat absolutely.
I know that's even more true with, yeah,like the immigrant story and all that.
Yeah.
Can I ask, what?
Like where where did the change come from?
How did that happen?

(44:13):
You mean leaving?
Actually, yeah. Like, did
did you break or reach your breaking pointor was there like inspiration?
So it's interesting what you weresaying about like, this is killing you.
And I think that thought actually hit mewhere I thought to myself,
if I can physically see on the outsidewhat is happening to me,
what is happening on the inside of me.

(44:35):
Yeah, if this rash willnot go away for four months,
there's got to be terrible thingshappening in there.
And and I,
I mean, I was seeing my therapist and,and I remember talking
I had I had good support around meand I will say I'm very,
very thankful for a lot of the peoplethat were able to talk to me about it.

(44:57):
But it was very much my own journey,you know, and I, I think to me, the,
the realization that came into my mindwas, this is not worth it.
My life,my health, my well-being is not worth it.
It's not worth the money.
The title or the accolades.

(45:18):
None of it's worth it.
None of it is worth living
in this hellscape that is killing me.
I mean, not to.
I don't mean to say that dramatically.
I just mean to say that very honestly.
Like, that was the thoughtthat sat with me in that moment was that
I feel thatthis is literally taking years off my life

(45:41):
at this point of being this
burnt out, miserable,
but reallystressed, stressed, inflamed, unwell.
And so that
was my wake up callthat made me go, it's not worth it.
Do you remember where, like you werewhen you finally hit
that point of like, I'm done,

(46:03):
or was it like a gradual?
I rememberI had a panic attack under my desk,
like I literally crawled under my deskand had a panic attack.
This desk right here, this same desk.
I was not living here at the time,but the same desk that I work at now.
I remember I was, curled up under my deskhaving a panic attack

(46:24):
because I could not take it anymore.
And I think that was one of the pieces.
I don't know if I could literally pinpoint, like, there definitely was a moment,
but I
think that that probably was likea big shifter
of mehaving that panic attack of me going,
this is like, you are unwell.

(46:46):
Like, this is not who you are.
Yeah, I think that that was the thingthat I was sitting
with is like, you're not this person
that just
like rots here almost, you know,
like this person that just becomes much toto your circumstances.
Like, that's not who you are.
And it took a lot, to be honest.

(47:10):
I they were I kept being like, should I,should I not, you know,
I had to talk througha lot of different angles.
Do I have, do I have the financesto be able to leave my job right now?
Do I have thethe support system to leave my job right.
And like, you know, likeI had to have a lot in place
before I could do it because it is losinga sense of a major sense of safety.

(47:34):
Yeah.
And and it's interesting because I thinkmost, most people will never know,
like what it's like to reallyjust be like, I, I quit, I'm done.
Like, I'm going and I don't want peopleto have to experience that because it was
it was a lot.
And you know,I'll be totally honest, it was a lot.
But it
was yeah, there was a moment along the waywhere

(47:57):
I just went, I am more important
than anything that this job is giving me.
The I did want to ask about that.
Like, yeah. Financial aspect. Yeah.
How big of a role did that play in?
Like, you maybe staying there longerthan you wanted to like massive, massive.
I am a daughter of immigrants.

(48:19):
I was told
you have to make great, good money like
it was absolutely ingrained in meto have financial security.
Financial security has been number onethrough my whole life.
Yeah.
So to leave my joband leave my financial stability
behind was.

(48:40):
Insane.
And the thing is,I have been programed to believe.
Oh, you just keep squirreling.
You keep scrolling money away for someunknown day, and that's your retirement.
Because Social security.
Social security is not a guarantee. Yeah.
It's just
such a, generational thing, you know?

(49:02):
And you have to have what you need inplace to be able to take care of yourself.
Yeah.
That was the backdropof what I'd always been told.
Right. Is that Social Security?
You can't rely on it.You got to make your own way.
You got to squirrel awayall your money and take care of yourself.
Well, even in, like,the idea that a job is safe, though,

(49:24):
like layoffs happenand right, emergencies happen.
And I'm going to be so real.
Like I.
So for the audience, hello.
I run a business as well.
I do photographyand that sort of stuff on the side.
This sort of media work as well. And
I right nowI'm looking for a more steady income.

(49:46):
That being said,
and Iam looking in like a corporate setting.
That being said, though,the idea that one form of,
of income that can end withjust somebody having a bad day,
or if somebody like, say, the stockmarket goes one way or the other, like
in it's anybody's decision but mine,whether or not I'm getting that paycheck.

(50:09):
And when you're working for yourself,when you're working with like 100 clients,
50 could fire you and you still havesome sort of income there.
And I keep hitting this microphone,but we're going to keep going.
That is in my head.
So much more of a safety netthan any sort of
positionthat that is outside of your control,

(50:32):
and it's somebody else's decisionwhether or not
you are going to have a job next monthor you're going to have a job
if, like the
stock market goes up and downand hardship is there.
But if you have like,
it's just like a numbersgame, like you can get laid off like that
if you are working with 100 people,
like that'sa lot more of an opportunity for you to.

(50:54):
There's a lot more.
A lot more has to go wrong, I would say.
And a lothas to go right for you to get there.
But it's worth working for itto get that sort of, I don't know,
just numbers,
security blanketand yeah, that's it. Yeah.
I mean, my thoughts on thatare you make such a great point.
I think that we have decidedthat having a 9 to

(51:18):
5 job is safe and securein a way that it no longer really is.
Yeah.
I don't know anybody who lives in New Yorkthat has one job.
And even peoplewith like 9 to 5 stuff, it's like,
they're working on the weekends.
They have a side hustle,they drive for Uber,
they work for a bar or somethinglike that.
Like,I don't want to say it's entirely gone,
and we should workfor that idea that you only have to,

(51:41):
you know, have one job,but it's it's tough to.
Yeah to make that even that idea. Right.
I, I just think that the realityof the way that it used to be
is just things have just changed, right?
My, both my parents workedfor their companies for 25, 30 years.
They had pensions,they had Social Security.
They had all you know,they had incredible health care.

(52:03):
That was incredibly nice to be onuntil I was 26 and kicked off of it.
And the reality is, like,none of those things are happening now.
And it's I don't know, I,I think the thing is that it's almost like
it's going to be a
challenge no matter what wayyou slice and dice it.

(52:25):
But what if you can make it
so that you're moving towards somethingthat really means something to you?
Yeah. What if you can do it where.
Yeah.
And like,what if you can create your own safety
and stability in a way that actuallyis real and more tangible to your point?
And I don't know,things are always changing.

(52:45):
World is always changing.
And I just think that we havewe have tied ourselves into this twist
of believing that just because you have a9 to 5 job, like things are good.
And to your point,it's like, oh, there's layoffs happening
every other week these days.
And things are constantly shifting.
And yeah, it'sjust not a guarantee anymore.

(53:07):
I think that comes back to that ideathat, like your capacity to make the life
that you want to live is existseven if you are in, you know,
a mindset that is rooted in the ideathat, you know, you're average
or you're like everybody else,your capacity to, like, get out of
that is directly tied to your beliefthat you can.

(53:29):
And yeah.
So speaking of, let me steer this towards
the next step.
What got you to, one permission to flow?
And how did you decide to, like, landa cow to start a coaching business?
Yeah.
So I soI finally made that decision to quit,

(53:50):
and then I honestly spent time
just trying to find joy again. Wow.
Say more about that. Like how?
Yeah.
Yeah, I.
Okay, so let me backdrop this of that.
I had saved up
a lot of money and I had given myselfenough space to be able to take time off.

(54:12):
And that was really important.
To answer your earlier questionaround finances.
So like the okay,I know the moniker or the
rule of thumb is 3 to 6 monthsof saving of savings.
I had it like a yearand a half worth of just cash, like
like liquid available.
Damn, dude.
Yeah, like I had been squirreling. Yeah.

(54:34):
And I don't know exactly somethingalong those lines.
Anyway, I spent time literallyjust trying to connect back to Joy,
and what I was doing was and granted, I,I was so much moved.
There were so many moving pieces at thispoint in my life, but I was painting
and I was just going on hikesand I was just I was baking.

(54:58):
I was just like creating things for funand just
trying to reconnectto the things that lit me up
and in a way that I needed at that time.
And I was, you know,I was just, and mind you, this was 20, 21.
Like,it was like the midst of the pandemic.
And, you know, I yeah, none of this

(55:21):
was necessarily easy or good timing.
None of it.
But yeah.
So I spent a lot of timejust reconnecting to what made me happy.
I was doing,
programs that kind of
asked medeeper questions around, like, what?
What do I want my life to look like?
Which was a question I never asked myself.

(55:41):
I never asked myselfwhat I want my life to look like.
I had just taken life as it came to me.
And that's a lesson.
That's awesome.
Yeah, like, what a powerful question,and one that I had never asked.
And so I spent time just askingmyself, like, what if I got to choose?

(56:01):
If I got to craft what life looked like,what would I even want that to look like?
Instead of just continuing down the pathof what I was told I was supposed to do,
or what was presented in front of me,like every job was just like, oh, well,
these people want to interview me.
That sounds like a cool job. Let me go.
You know, that was the way that it worked.
And so I spent a lot oftime reconnecting to, myself.

(56:29):
I distinctly
remember this moment that I was sittingon the floor of that bedroom
I was living at at the time,and I had this moment,
and I realized how much I'd beentreating myself as my own worst enemy.
And and I decided to stop doing that.

(56:51):
And I was like,what if I became my own friend?
Say more about that.
What does that look like?
And don't do anythingthat's going to make you uncomfortable.
No, no, I love talking about this stuff.
I, I had this feel like
I that was the moment that I realizedhow mean I had gotten to myself.

(57:13):
This is before all the meditating.
Mind you,I always meditating a little. But
I realized I was so mean to myself.
I was meanand I think this is normal, right?
Like for for a lot of peopleit was normal for me.
I had this realization where I was like,this was right after I'd quit my job

(57:35):
and and I was feeling really low.
My boyfriend had broken up with methe day after I left my job.
Like my entire life, I was not.
What? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah. My life.
You're out there, dude.
Not freaking cool.
I don't hold sorry.
I don't hold negativity towards him.

(57:57):
Like,you know, we we had to make the decisions.
We had to make.
It wasn't his fault.
Jessica's more mature and like, everybody.
That's intense.
So. Damn, I, I had the trifecta ofeverything fall out from under me, right?
I had I had just quit my job.
My boyfriend broke up with me,and I was going to I,

(58:17):
I had decided because of that, thatI was going to move back into the city
because I was living in new Jerseyduring the pandemic, because it was
very overwhelming to be living inthis very tiny studio space.
That's where, during through the pandemic,especially with my partner.
That was a lot.
Anyway, not the point.
The point is, is just what's among us.

(58:41):
I'm like, okay, maybewe should cut this out, I don't know.
Well, I'll think about it, I don't care,I don't care if this is what happened.
This is the reality. But,
And so after all of that happened,I was sitting on that floor,
and I was beating myself up about how

(59:04):
my relationship had ended.
And like, my job, it ended.
And like, I had nothing.
And I was just telling,tearing myself apart.
And and I hit
this wall like, I don't even,I don't know, it's hard to explain.
It's like I had an a,like a literal epiphany.
And I sat and I told myself,

(59:27):
wait,
you're doing the best you can.
And there's been a lot
of crazy stuff happening around you,but you're doing the best you can.
And and I think a little bit of that,and my mom would always
tell me that she would always be like,just do the best you can.
It'll be okay. Like,just do the best you can.

(59:48):
But it never sunk into my head. Right?
She would say that to meall the time. I was like, no,
not doing the best I can.
Like, I'm just here.
But I had this moment where I finallyrealized, like, I'm doing the best I can,
and I had this know where I was, like,you know,
it's not worth it to be hurting myselfover and over again.

(01:00:09):
Like, I'm not going to get anywheredoing this to myself.
And and it was thisit was a huge inflection point
where I decided, in that moment,I'm going to try and be kinder to myself.
And I'm going to try andand actually cheer myself on
and cheer on the factthat I made this big decision for myself

(01:00:32):
and cheer on the factthat I am going off into the unknown
and actually
care and support myself through that.
Because getting me
like beating myself upand tearing myself down
was not getting me anywhere anymore.
And I could feel that I was like,this is just not serving me anymore.

(01:00:56):
And I just, I don't know,I just woke up in that moment,
that moment where I was pushing myselfdown as hard as I could.
Yeah, it's I guess you can equate it tothose kind of like, rock bottom moments.
It's like I had hit that,I had hit that rock bottom.
And I said, no,
no, no more.

(01:01:18):
And it was that moment
that I think I started to go,what else could my life look like?
And I started to say, let me build
a better future for myselfthan what I've been building for myself.
And wow, I've gone way offtopic from what, year ago?
Dude, that I the importance of everythingthat you just said cannot be overstated.

(01:01:41):
Like that. Like
the permission,that kindness and like self-love
give gives to youand the space that it gives to you
in order to think about other thingsother than wow, I suck or wow, I'm
failing, or while I'm, I'm not capablethat is huge
and unbelievably important to

(01:02:02):
like. That's not even square one.
That's like,
that is the foundationof any sort of belief
that you can have a life that's differentthan what you have currently, and that is
and like you think about thatin relationships with friends,
romantic relationships,
all of that, you would expect supportand you would expect kindness

(01:02:25):
and you would expectjust even just the bare minimum of
not abuse, you know, likeyou would expect neutrality in that point.
And the fact that so many peopleand I experienced this as well.
And like I just moved from my safehometown and right now I'm in the shit.

(01:02:46):
And that is an excellent reminder that
my own capacity,
all of our capacitiesto to create change starts
with supporting the beliefthat we can and supporting ourselves just
blankly like, if that looks like
I'm going to support myselfthrough a corporate environment or through

(01:03:07):
some crazy change,like it has to start with that.
And that is like unbelievably important.
And yeah, thank you for for sharing that.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's it's interestingbecause I, I've had a lot of people ask
me, you know, I, I live alone,I spend a lot of time by myself
and, and it's like, oh how how is that,how do you and I'm like,

(01:03:30):
I freaking love itbecause I love my own company right now.
But I will tell you, like back to the oh,you would not imagine
the past version of me.
You know, it's like I hated being alone
because the worst thing to mewas being by myself.
Because I had tothen hang out with the person

(01:03:51):
that was sitting with me, which is myself.
And that was a very scary place to be,because all I did
was berate myselfand be incredibly mean to myself.
All the freaking time.
I was my own worst enemy 100%,
and and I would just tell myselfhow I made the wrong decision.

(01:04:13):
I did the wrong thing.I couldn't trust myself.
I was terrifiedof making any decisions for myself.
I gave all my power away all the time.
I was like,
everyone else has to make decisionsbecause I don't trust my own decisions.
And and it it's it'syou're speaking to me right now, right?
Just so you know, likeI am like the things that you're saying,

(01:04:34):
I like and I'm just in right now and like.
Yeah.
That it's
that's yeah, it's powerful stuff.
Yeah. Yeah.
I lived most of my life that way and,and a lot of people do.
And you know, you'redefinitely not alone in that.
It's so normal.
And it's okay to be that like toto see that and recognize it.

(01:04:57):
And it's like, how do we how do we move?
How do we move from that. Right?
How do we how do we learn to create
more love here,
right here.
It's kind of giving then. Me
yeah. It's yeah.
Square one like square for one.

(01:05:18):
It's square one. So start there.
How how often are wethe people where it's like we can be kind
to someone else way morethan we can be kind to ourselves.
That's. I feel like that's like
like every
part of the human experienceis having that somewhere.
And you have to like,
work really hard to unlearn thatand not to be like,

(01:05:41):
you know, hateful to other people.But it just starts.
It has to start with you.
And it's not selfish to do that.
It's not like your capacityto pour into yourself
expandsyour capacity to pour into other people.
And that is, yeah, 1,000%. Yes.
The only reason why
I can do this podcast, do coaching,do everything I do.

(01:06:03):
Which to me,I'm pouring myself into these things.
She is like, you don't see iton the back end, but she is like, it is.
Yeah you are.
Yeah.
I pour my heart and soulinto everything I do.
But the only way I do thatis because I pour into myself a lot.
Yeah.

(01:06:23):
And when I catch my, I catch myselfall the time not pouring into myself.
Well, you know, like it's, it's a constant
getting better, getting better,catching yourself a little faster,
getting a little better,doing a little more constant.
Like the reason
why I teach all the things I teach isbecause I struggle with them a lot myself,
and I'm always learning a different wayand a better way, and working a harder

(01:06:47):
and better and fasterat all of these things.
And so it's like I've learned,I have to pour into my own cup.
Yeah, that's the only wayI'm able to pour into everyone else's.
You can't pour from an empty cup.
And I think that that's the mistakethat a lot of people get trapped in
is this idea where they're like,oh, I just have to give.

(01:07:10):
I have to give endlessly.
And I think we've, like a lot of ushave been conditioned
into believing that that's like,oh, you give, you don't receive.
We're not supposed to receive.
We're supposed to just give.
I have to give everything out to you.
And what I've realized is, when I do that.
I run
empty and I hit a wall, and I get sick,

(01:07:34):
and I get run downand things stop happening. And.
And it's like the abilityto pour into ourselves,
the ability to to remind yourselfthat you matter,
that that you are worthy ofthe good things that come into your life,
that youthat like you're allowed to take time
and space for yourself,that you get to rest

(01:07:58):
all those things.
It's everything that you're sayingright now, like I'm
having a physical reaction to youbecause you're like, and I know a million
people like, like half the freaking planetprobably feels the same thing.
I'm like, no, I don't deserve that.
Or no, I don't feel like thatis something that belongs in my life
because you're justyou're the thoughts in your head are so

(01:08:21):
negative and it's not even negative.
It's just like so inconsiderateof of you, of of the self.
And that is like,
yeah,I'm having a very strong physical reaction
to everything that you're saying,like the, the value piece, like, yeah,
I don't know where that was unlearnedbecause I mean,

(01:08:43):
the way I was raised, like I had a prettyokay job there for the most part.
But somewhere along the way, you you lose
that belief, I guess.
Or maybe you, you aren't fully committed
to learning it in the first placeor taught to learn it in the first place.
But that is like
I'm everything you're saying.
It's like I just feel itand and it's like really uncomfortable.

(01:09:06):
But yeah,moving towards that, I mean, and how how,
how powerful
could I have literally spentthis entire year
focused on self-worth and valuing myself?
And I and it's it's interestingbecause, yeah,
I've been along this path for a while,but this year has been

(01:09:29):
dedicated to that alone,I feel like and the million other things.
But I feel like that hasthat has the number one.
Yeah, to me is just
improving my own self-worth.
It because it hit meand it was interesting.
It was at the end of last year,I had this moment

(01:09:49):
of realization that I was like,wow, I really don't have good self-worth.
I don't value myself, I don'tI don't think I'm deserving
of the good things that come into my life.
Can I ask what?
What does that look likein your day to day?
Like how do you practice that?
How do you how do you work towards a morecompassionate view towards yourself?

(01:10:14):
I think it's little by little,
I noticed for me
what has I will notice like a one wayin which I'm not doing it
and I will go, oh, that that's menot valuing myself, you know.
And do you mind sharing? Like.
Yeah, I'm trying to think oflike a very specific example.

(01:10:34):
Like what would be an example of whereI have not
deemed myself valuable.
I'll give a small examplebecause there's so many.
But like, for instance, I'm in credit,I, I don't I think receiving
is a lot of the value thingwhere I'm like, I don't, I don't.
For I was incredibly uncomfortablewith receiving anything.

(01:10:56):
Like even someone like buying me dinneror like you picking me up
a cup of coffee today.
Well, it wasn't coffee,but I don't drink coffee. But,
Well, it's a tumor latte to be exact.
But for a very long time,
I was very incapable of thinking, like,oh, I'm not deserving of anyone
taking care of me or,you know, giving me something like that.

(01:11:19):
Even even something small like that.
That just made me very uncomfortable
of of having that kind of friendshipwhere I was just like,
oh, you want to, like,treat me to something?
Or, you know, like,we want to care for each other in this,
like, like it was just,like, made me very uncomfortable.
And I had to confront thatand ask myself, like,
why am I so uncomfortable about that?

(01:11:41):
What is going on there?
And because you don't believe youor thought, yeah, I don't think
I'm valuable enough for someone toto give you like a $5 like, yeah, no, no,
that.
Yeah. And you know what.
Like on the flip side of that,that made me feel good
to be able to be like,hey, let me get you something right.
Like, that is part of that ideathat you pour into people

(01:12:04):
and you also get filled upat the same time. Yes.
And if you're saying no to that,you're not like, you're not even allowing
other people to look at you like that,even if they want to, which is
just a whole other sideof that conversation.
Yeah.
I, you
that that was one of the realizations thatI made that I think was really important
is that when I don't allow someoneto give something to me,

(01:12:27):
or when I don't allow myself to receive,I'm not allowing someone else to give.
And if our human nature is givingand we all want to give and we enjoy it
and we love giving to each other,we need to learn to receive
because we're otherwiseparking other people from giving
100%, 100%.

(01:12:50):
Yeah, that. Yeah. I mean, I,
just.
I the fact that that
that it was just like a cup of coffeeor like the equivalent of
that is like.
A I think that's unbelievably profound.

(01:13:11):
Like, if you are, if you are not willingto let somebody else
value you to the amount that but.
Well, first of all, dollar amount,whatever, that's like a yeah,
no not weird.
But if if you're not letting somebody
buy you a cup of coffeebecause you feel like you aren't worthy,
just examine that.
Like that is a huge shift that probablyyou should consider looking at.

(01:13:35):
And I, I don't say you have tobecause that feels a little no not flowy.
But yeah, you you are so worth like peoplein your life wanting to care for you.
And I feel like the more that you pushpeople away,
the more that you sayno to that sort of thing,
the more you'renot going to be surrounded,
or the more you're going to find yourselfsurrounded by people
that aren't in that headspaceand aren't willing to do that. And

(01:13:58):
yeah, I mean,
that's like probably just continues there,but you end up
surrounded by people that are just takingfrom you and never pouring into you.
And that's, not fun place to be. Yeah.
I will say,and yeah, I, I it's it's interesting
the abilityto allow others to pour into you.

(01:14:18):
And I think that
when we don't value ourselves,we think that there's something wrong
if someone is trying to pour into youor trying to.
Yeah, if you like, I value you.
I would like to give it something.
And you're like, no.
Can I ask is
so we've talked about like the strugglewe've talked about like the,

(01:14:40):
the reasons behind a lot of thatand what it looks like.
Yeah.
But is that idea that you'repouring into people that.
Well,is that idea that pouring into people is
innately a
thing that gives youyour own life purpose,
something that drew you to coaching?
Yeah, I it is.

(01:15:01):
So, yeah.
To answer your much earlier question ofhow did I end up
doing all started all this,
what happened was I so I'll let me tellthat story a little bit.
I thought I was going to go backinto a finance job
and if you can believe it,because it was just all I'd known, right?

(01:15:21):
It was all it was the devil,you know, as they say, and relevant.
Yeah.
And then I had this moment where I waslike, especially the one I was looking at.
I it was so similar to whatI had just been doing.
And, and I know myself and I was like,I could do this job.
I could totally dothis job. I could do a great.

(01:15:43):
How long after you had quit?
Was this that you were looking?
This was,
well, at this particular moment was maybe
like 4 or 5 months after.
Okay. So you had like some time to.
Yeah, I had some time and then I was yeah,I was like pursuing these jobs again.
And I was like,I could do a great job at this.

(01:16:05):
And it would take over my life again.
And it would lead me down exactlythe same path that I'd just gone down.
And I, I was like, no, I, I don't think I,
I have a voice note on my phone, actually,where I was talking to myself
through the whole decision making processand because I was getting close,
like I was like onlike the final round of interviews.

(01:16:27):
Oh, wow. Okay.
Well, yeah.
And and I voice note in myselfliterally talking through like, why
I should not keep goingbecause it was getting too close.
You know, I was like
and and the end of
that message was me going,
I can't do this to myself anymore.

(01:16:47):
I'm like,I, this is we're not doing this again.
And me literallywriting up the email to the recruiter
and saying, like, I'm not doing,I would not like to proceed.
And then clicking send
and but anyway, talk aboutlike an act of self love though,
speaking massive, massive,

(01:17:09):
there was this phrase, what was it?
I can't be the person that other people
want me to be anymore.
That was the phrase that I keptsaying to myself in that voice memo.
Because it was it was a moment of going,
this is me showing upas who other people want,

(01:17:31):
and I, I'm not that person anymore.
And and then I thought I wasgoing to pivot into something in between,
like I thought I was going to gointo financial planning and but I like
and I think that could have beena fine path, to be honest.
But it just wasn't quite working outlike the location wasn't right.
And like it would have been a long commuteand like all these things.
And I was just like, I don't know.

(01:17:52):
And I and I,I had this moment where I went
and it was interesting actually,originally
I was going to do this podcastwith another person
and and then at the last, yeah,it was like
we were going to havelike a co-hosting show.
And then she bailed out at the last minute
and I was like, oh, God.

(01:18:14):
But like, what do I do?
Like, maybe I can'tI don't know if I can do this on my own.
And, and I had this moment where I,
I had to come back to myself and go like,
I think I still want to do it anyway.
And let me back up a second because I'm,I'm missing a big part of the story.

(01:18:35):
Every time
I told someone that I had quit my job,and I told them about the experience of it
and and choosing myself in that moment,
I saw it inspire peopleto make big changes.
I watched friends of mineleave relationships, leave jobs,

(01:18:56):
like make really profound changesin their lives.
And so that was the backdrop,and that was the thing that made me go,
what if I could do that more?
What if I can take this
incredibly challenging, awful timeperiod of my life

(01:19:18):
and use it for good?
What if it can serveas an example to people that they can
they can make decisions that they canbuild the life that they really want?
What if it was that sitting in that?
What if
it's what created all this?
Had you been coached at that pointor I had?

(01:19:40):
Okay, so I had been coached prior,like during the time
when I burned out the first timeI was doing coaching, actually.
Yeah. And
and so I thankfully didknow what coaching was.
And so I had actually sheshe's actually a great friend of mine.

(01:20:01):
And so I had reached out to herand I asked her like what it had taken.
So I had been like scoping a lot of thingsout, you know,
and in the course of this,I was scoping out all these finance jobs.
I was like, scoping outfinancial planning.
I was scoping out coaching.
I was scoping out everything.
And and so it was like, well,the financial the finance job fell off

(01:20:22):
because I was like,I can't do this anymore.
And then the financial planning, I waslike, I don't think this is working out.
And I was just like, If I'm going to movelike it felt like a half step,
it felt like, oh, I'm kind of sort ofmoving in the right direction.
And I sat there and I was just like,
honestly, I
was like, fuck it, we're going all in.
And I was like, you know what?

(01:20:45):
I work my ass off doing things
I don't even like,and I do a damn good job at it.
What if I took all of that energy,all of that
gusto, and I put it towardssomething that actually mattered?
Yeah,
that's how I ended up here.

(01:21:08):
I'm so glad you did.
Yeah, that that was thethat was the thing.
It was part of seeing it,
seeing this these little likeI don't know how to explain it.
These little sparks of like,oh, this is what could happen
if I kept going down this path,these little morsels.

(01:21:30):
Isn't it funny how, like, the alot of the times, all people need is like
permission.
To flow.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
That is going to be the biggest

(01:21:54):
theme throughout this podcastis how we do puns we can make about this.
Hey so relevant. It's a good thing.
So yeah it's a good freaking goodbecause let's face it, it's permission.
It's not that anyone else can give youpermission,
it is you giving yourself permission
to be brave, to go after the thingyou want, like it is.

(01:22:17):
I mean, of coursethere are things in our lives that like we
and this is the thing that I thinkis really important and very relevant
to what you're going through rightnow. Right?
You're going toyou have to take care of yourself, right?
Like you have to make sure,like there's food on the table,
you can live in your homelike all those kind of things. Yeah.

(01:22:37):
And don't let those things stop you.
Yeah.
And I think oftenwe let those things stop us.
Right?
We go, oh, well, it's not possible
to do the thing I really want to do. Yeah.
So that's who I think that's wherelike intentionality comes into play at.

(01:22:58):
Like I it for for the audience. Hello.
I just moved to New York,like three months ago.
And the week before we met.
That is wild way.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow. I forgot.
Yeah. It was. Wow.
So you've been here the whole time? Yes.Yeah.
I'm. I'm almost 100% of your New York
experience. Wow.

(01:23:21):
I don't mean it that way.
I know.
No, I know, I know, I know, yeah, I know,
there's a lotthat happens in New York City that I wish
you're very safepart of of the New York experience so far.
But the and impactful I'll say that.
But the the struggle is like
it is real and the roadblocksthat can get put in your way.

(01:23:46):
I think those are a lot more.
They're alot more powerful when you don't have the
the intention and the reminder that,you know, the goals that you have in
your futureare things that you still want to pursue.
And this relationship,like our both our business relationship

(01:24:07):
and our friendshiphave been a really good reminder that
in the struggle and even if you like, I'm,
I'm looking at jobs in the corporate worldbecause I
as you've seen, I'm a very anxious person,just naturally.
And the,
the chaos that can be a new city,

(01:24:29):
especially a city like New York,uncertainty of running your own business.
All of that is something that, like,I'm feeling pretty heavily right now
and I'm learning to assess and say, hey,
I know how I can help myselfin this very moment.
That doesn't mean thateverything's being put on hold.
It means that I'm doingwhat I need to do right now

(01:24:49):
in order to stand up later and to,like, work towards those things
and those like those visions,those like dreams, those goals
and the value that I want the the life,
the life that I want to live
that doesn't go away, you know, and likeworking towards that doesn't go away.
That is just part of the journeyof getting there
and really like being honest with myselfabout that sort of,

(01:25:15):
reality is the thing that's let me
like, feel more okay with that decisionand feel more
okay with the idea that like,hey, I'm I'm not I'm not a failure
just because I'm having a likeor I'm wanting
to look in, in, other directions rightnow, that is a powerful idea.
And I think that carriesthrough with back to that, the idea

(01:25:38):
that, like, you have to love you haveit has to start here.
Like caring for yourselffirst is where it's going to come from
because I, I can see a versionof the future where like, let's say
you're pushing towards your, your dreamsand your goals and you're pushing towards
a lifestyle
and you are really hurting it.

(01:26:00):
Like emotionally, while you do it,you're hurting financially.
Why are you doing it while you do it?
Some of your relationships are hurtingwhile you do like.
All of those things can lead towards
that goalor becoming the villain in your story.
And that's not the way to approach it.
And I think that that's like a very,I don't know, like a real thing
that the idea of like,

(01:26:23):
we talk a lot about
how do we show people that the lifethat you want is possible on things
like Instagram and through this podcastand, on your website.
And this isn't to say that it's
I don't think anything that we dois misleading, but I think that the
there is a reality portion of thatthat like the work has to happen

(01:26:45):
and sometimes it's not always going to goand that the permission to flow idea,
I think just is so perfectlyencapsulating of, of.
Letting life,
not fighting against,
life in a way that's going to be harmfulto you and pursuing your goals.

(01:27:05):
And that is really important.
And permission of flow, that's,Yeah, it's a good
it's a good.
I keep saying moniker,and I don't think that's a real word.
It's a good phrase.
It is a great phrase. Yeah.
You know,I don't know if I ever told you this,
but I used to call myselfa self-love coach,

(01:27:27):
because to me, that is the foundation.
Yeah.
And I, I may not call myself a therapist,but by another name.
Yeah.
I mean, but it's it is to me,it's the most important thing.
Yeah. To me, it's the reason.It really is.
The reason why I'm doing everythingthat I do is because

(01:27:48):
I love myself first and foremost.
Yeah.
And and it's,it is because of that that I'm able
to pour into all of the other cups,you know, as I said.
And but I think that
I don't know, somewhere, you know, you're,
you're saying this before it's like,why have we
even despite having good childhoodsor whatever, it's like so

(01:28:12):
many of us have createdthis kind of destructive
relationship with ourselves.
I think it it is it's it'sjust become normal,
you know, and and I think that there
there's so much to be said for cultivating
a more loving relationship with yourself.

(01:28:32):
And and to your point, it will affect
every area of your life,literally, literally.
I mean, my relationships, my friendships,
like every thing is affectedby the way that I see myself.
That is the I mean, that

(01:28:53):
frickin raising tides raise all shipsif you rising tides raise all ships.
If you start with that with expectinga higher standard from yourself,
your friendships, you're going to startwant those elevated as well.
And if you're around peoplewho aren't pouring into you, yeah,
they're going to become lessimportant to you.
And pursuing the things that don'tmatter are going to

(01:29:13):
is going to become less important.
Any sort of like romantic relationship
that standard gets raised if you are,if you are looking at yourself
with a higher standard as welland expecting a better standard
from the relationship with yourselfspecifically.
And yeah, that's
oh, good, good shit.

(01:29:34):
Pardon my friends.
It's so true thoughI, I don't know, I don't, I don't think,
I don't think there's
anything more important than thatto be honest.
To be honest.
Because it's, it is the foundationthat we need to work on.
And it's like, and I,I will be the first to admit

(01:29:56):
it is a working relationship.
It is a freaking working relationship.Yeah.
And I think it's very interestingbecause I as a coach,
I think that people want to projectthis idea that you've figured it all out.
You're perfect, you got it all covered.
And I'm like, I think that's a fallacy.
Yeah.
And I think that I am a better coach

(01:30:19):
because I am alwaysworking on the same things that I am
helping my clients through one 100because I have worked through it.
A million times, and I am figuring outa better way to do it,
and I'm going to pass that along to you,
you know?
Well, there's your pitch. People.

(01:30:40):
I adjust again.
Yeah.
No, I think that isjust like the most important thing.
Like I,
I know this this is like a universal.
Oh my God, my voice man.
The voice cracks are insane.
I know thatthis is a universal experience,
but the things that I see onmy social media,

(01:31:01):
like as a guy,it is incredibly unrealistic.
It is never starting with this.
It's starting with, hey, do thisand then you'll be worthy of love.
Or like, do this workout planand then you'll be worthy of acts.
Or do this,
like, invest in this stockand then you'll be,
like, successful and x, y, I, x, y and z.

(01:31:23):
And it is always an external.
Thing that people are
sellingor it's all it's always an external idea
that people are trying to convince you ofin order to find worth and support.
Sorry. I was like, okay, no, it's okay.
Yeah.
But it has to start here.
Like, and I think that is likea universal, universal problem.

(01:31:46):
With our society and.
Yeah, okay, this is a a tangent, but
obviously the election just happened.
Well, maybe not obviously,
but the election has happenedand I've seen a lot of people.
This is a real sidetrack.
So if you want to cut all this out,just like let me know.
But I look at,

(01:32:08):
men like young men specifically.
And there's so many people asking like,why did young men do this?
Why did young men break so heavily for
somebody who is really not
serving others and.
Trigger warning for the audience.
Trigger warning for you.
Do you know what the suicide rate of mencompared to women is?

(01:32:29):
No, I know it's 4 to 1. Wow.
4 to 1 for young men.
High school graduation rates with men.
It is I know this podcast geared towardswomen. So,
it's a human experience.
But the high school graduation.
Yeah. Yeah.

(01:32:50):
High school graduation rate right now,
it's like 88% of the 80,
88% men compared to the amount of womenthat graduate.
And that,I think is a huge problem because like I,
I've seen about this when I was a kid,like I would play baseball
with my dad and like,if tiers were around, absolutely not.

(01:33:10):
Like, you cannot cry.
And then that theme follows youfor like your entire life and your entire
adult experience.
It's like suppress, suppress, suppress.
If you don't like sorry, for the language,but if you don't, you're a pussy
or you're like,
you're a little bitch or like, you can't,you can't just be exactly where you are.
And then that leads you to, like,

(01:33:30):
really
lean intothat idea that hatred, like self-hate,
is just normal and naturaland thing to get out of it.
It's voices like Tucker Carlson or
like Andrew Tate or Joe Roganor all these like horrible
ideas of like what it is to be a manand to have purpose in your life.
And the cure to that,I fundamentally believe,

(01:33:54):
comes from like teaching peopleto love themselves first
before anything else,and then those voices that are like filled
with hate and filled with angerbefore your own voice telling you
that like, you know,you're not worth being here.
That makes that all those conversationsa lot easier.
And sorry for the tangent.
That is,I think it's a really important tangent.
And you know, something that

(01:34:18):
I so what I
shared, the day after the election
was this idea where it's like the,the word love and.
Yeah, well, the opposite of fear is love.
Yeah.
And I think that'sa really important thing to think about,
because I think that we've becomea very fearful society.

(01:34:42):
And, and I think that's what in many waysis leading us to where we are right now.
There's a lot, a lot of fear going on.
Everyone's afraid that of
so many different things,they're afraid of
the the all the migrants comingin, they're afraid of, like not being able
to put food on their tablebecause things have become too expensive.
They're afraid of so many things.

(01:35:03):
They're afraid
of losing their jobs, their,you know, like there's a lot of fear.
Yeah. And
and I think that'swhy I hold a lot of space for people.
And of not, you know, like,
I don't want differentpolitical persuasions.
Yeah.
Because I think that it all stemsfrom fear and and so to me,

(01:35:23):
it is the more that we can cultivate love
for and first and foremost for ourselves,
that I think that this worldstarts to shift
and and so, you know, it wasit was interesting because I noticed
in myself, even,you know, where I saw someone that I know
post things that I don't agree with.

(01:35:45):
And, and I had this like immediate
gut reaction of like, unfollow them,grab them from my life.
I never want to talk to this human again.
You know, I think that there's a lot of
and I saw a lot of peopleactually saying that also on Instagram.
Right? Like
if you didn't vote for this candidate,then I never want to speak to you.
Get out of my lifeand never speak to me again.
There's a lot of that,and I want to put forth

(01:36:10):
a completely different ideawhere it's like, and it's it's interesting
because the idea of a lot more harderidea, much harder idea,
which is how can we hold spacefor each other and how can we hold love
even when we don't agree with each other,even when we are completely
on different sides of the table?

(01:36:31):
It's so much harder.
Yeah,but that is the way that we move forward
and not move backwards as a society.
And and I think that and it's interesting.
My teacher, Dharma,he says this thing, he says,
you don't like someone fine,but love them from afar.
Keep your distance.
But still hold love for them.

(01:36:52):
And I think that, that is so challenging.
But that is something I work on thatevery single freaking day.
And I bet that the reason that you're ableto even have that
that conversation is because you arein a place where you focus here
first and are able tothen send that outwards, which,

(01:37:13):
yeah, when it's like moral
things that like are just basic,basic decency,
really frickin tough. But
that yeah, it is the way I move forward,which is tough.
I know it's hard.
I know it's hard.
And like, we don't want to do it.
Yeah. And like,

(01:37:35):
we don't need to get too far
into the weeds here, but like,it is a privilege to be able to be like,
I want to be ableto have those conversations,
because a lot of people like,I mean, I as a white guy,
like a straight white guy, like, I'mprobably not going to be bothered at all.
And, that, like.

(01:37:56):
Gives me a lot more space to be ableto, like,
think about those things when it's like,not my livelihood.
It's not I'm not fearing for anythinglike my sister.
My sister is,
I don't need to
go into all this,but she's in a my sister's gay,
and it is a very,
different life, different experienceto be in the place that we are now.

(01:38:19):
And I don't want to gowithout acknowledging that.
And we can cut all thisif you want, because it is.
No, I think it's so powerful.
Yeah. Love,man. Love school. Loves powerful.
And it creates permission to flow.
Okay, so pulling us out of that.
Jessica. Yeah.
You're in a place right nowwhere we just kind of succeeded,

(01:38:42):
in a big way, like finished a big project.
You got a big win and filmed your firstguest podcast on Scripted Unplanned.
In the studio.
What's what's what's next?
Like, what's the what's the next goal? And
how are you,
how are you feeling?

(01:39:07):
I feel great,
I feel excited, I,
I mean, I was saying this before, and,
it's interesting.
I mean.
I, I'm someone where it's like,I don't know if I hold.
I have goals, of course, but I don't knowif I've set the next marker yet

(01:39:28):
because I just finished this one.
That's very like,literally like a few nights ago.
Like this last night. Last night,last night.
She finished it literally last nightI finished it.
So I, I don't think I'mlike quite ready to be like,
well God is doinglike all this stuff, but,
What is my next goal?

(01:39:49):
I you know it.
I love just being in it.
I love being in the thick of it.
Now I just, I love being in.
The the little tweaks,
the adjustment, the figuring it out,the messiness.
Like, I, I think there is a part of methat has learned

(01:40:10):
to actually relish that.
And like my, my goal is really just
in this very moment.
It's it's to keep going to start like my,my goal is to
to get to a placewhere it where there's more flow.
I think that's for right nowbecause I think that there's,

(01:40:30):
there's been a whole lot of messy
all over the place stuff going on.
And I, I want to get to a moreof a place of flow.
And, and that's not like a particularlytangible goal.
And I will work on a more tangible goalsin the future.
But that's where I'm at right now.

(01:40:52):
I'm in the place where it's like,now that we've accomplished this
massive project, how can we
enjoy it,
create amazing things from itand be in more flow?
Yeah, that's where I am right now.
Was it worth it?
1,000%?

(01:41:14):
It was worth every single morning.
The literal blood, sweatand tears of it all.
It was worth it.
It's all it.
It is always worth that to me.
I think that's probably an okay place
to, like, wrap up whatever this is.
Planned studio test podcast.

(01:41:34):
Remember the time that you told me
that you were really unsureabout coming on the podcast?
Yeah, yeah.
Interesting.
You think I did?
Okay?
I think you did great. Cool.
How do you feel about it?
I feel okay,I think the spontaneity of of this
actual, recording probably helps.

(01:41:56):
And I was in myhead about it, which is good.
Yeah.
And I mean, I've,
I feel like we know, like each otherpretty well
at this point, and we know it'snot going to be a scary thing to be in.
And it is kind of weird, I will say, like.
Because get real meta about it now.
It's just a camera.

(01:42:18):
Like it's not going to be anythingunless like, well, one, I edit it and
put it out online, but like it's not goingto it's not going to be anything.
And so we had a hit record on that,which I, that is, that is weird.
Like, that is just a camera.
And I feel like I'm talking to somebodyright now.
Imagine when it's just you by yourself.
Oh, dude, I can'tI mean, like you probably you probably it.

(01:42:40):
So in your head right about like,
it's just a camera, like that.
Like that is why it is just a, like,unthinking
blank little like.
But it represents so much more.
Yes it does. Yeah.
And this is why you're the coach.
Man can see like that.

(01:43:01):
I mean, I will tell you, making a podcast
is an incredibly strange experiencebecause I don't know who's listening.
And does that weird you out?
Not really.
It's like from what angle I have.
So you have no idea.I guess that's life, right?
Like you, you're going to enter into.

(01:43:22):
Oh, it it it was pretty strangeat the beginning for sure, but.
And it's, it's very it's interesting nowbecause I will occasionally
have friends reach out to me and saythey listen to this episode and they,
you know, what their thoughts about itand stuff and I, I freaking love that.
It's it's like the best because I don'tusually get that much feedback.

(01:43:45):
Yeah. And anyway, yeah. Not yet.
But it's, it is interesting because.
Yeah, you just you sit here, you pouryour heart and soul into something,
you're staring at a camerabut can't talk back to you.
And, and but I have always
fundamentally sat with the trust

(01:44:07):
that whoever is meant to hearit will hear it.
Well, and I've said this to you before,I think I even said it to the other day,
but it is a fundamental truth of mine.
I started this podcast believing that
if even one personis benefiting from it, then it's worth it.

(01:44:27):
And that
is thatwas always the motivation behind it.
I'm like,I will go to the ends of the earth
to create this thing,and it will drive me out of my mind
and it will challenge meand do all kinds of things to me.
But I fundamentally believe

(01:44:49):
if it's helping one person,then it's worth it.
any parting thoughts of wisdom, partingthings you want to say to people after?
Like how, two hour long?
I know how long I have.
I have no idea.
What is my parting wisdom.
The struggle is always worth it.
Like the.
I think the thing.

(01:45:09):
I don't even want to use the wordstruggle.
It's funny,because I was actually bringing this
up to youthe other day about, Instagram post.
But to me, it'snot even a struggle like I.
My parting thought is really that going
towards your purpose and your passionand the things that really light
you up and the creationthat you need to put out there,

(01:45:33):
it is worth it.
And someone else is waiting on you
to create the thing that you wishthat was out there in the world.
Someone is out there going,oh, I would like.
You're thinking to yourself,I wish this thing existed.
Crazy idea.
Never.
It's never going to work. X, Y and Z.

(01:45:54):
Yeah, like guess what?
You'rethe one that's supposed to create it.
And it doesn't matterwhere you started from.
It doesn't matterwhat what you're experiencing right now.
None of that matters.
Anyone and everyone has the possibilityto be able to go after the thing

(01:46:15):
that they really want to create,and it is worth it.
That's my thought.
Clip it, cut it, and it
and well, thank youfor creating this impromptu show.
I feel like you're like hosting me upin here.
It's been fun. Let's be real.
Do you do a lot of hosting and you deserveto be to be hosting every night?

(01:46:36):
Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. No,this was cool.
And I guess, for the people watching,
you'regoing to see Jessica next week. And.
That's right,some cool guests. Maybe before.
Maybe after this. I mean, I shall see.
I'll say, as the editor in chief,it's going to be after this.
So look forward to some cool new guestscoming up.

(01:46:57):
Look forward to a continually built out,
continuing improving, podcast studio.
We're going to add some new things.
New looks for the, the show and, yeah,
see you next week.
See you next week. Bye.

(01:47:17):
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Permission to Flow.
If you enjoyed the episode, don't forgetto follow, rate and review the show.
And if you want to learn moreabout working with me,
then click the link in the shownotes for my website.
Jessica Lange coaching.com.
And remember,the world needs what you will create.

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066 - Creativity, Collaboration, Chaos: A Real Conversation with my Editor, Travis Carr

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}066 - Creativity, Collaboration, Chaos: A Real Conversation with my Editor, Travis Carr