He Left Corporate Lies Behind to Lead with Soul— IT CHANGED Everything Left Corporate Lies Behind to Lead with Soul— IT CHANGED Everything

What happens when a successful executive trades corporate pressure for spiritual purpose? In this episode of The Cindy Urrutia Podcast, Anil Matai—AI author, Vedic wisdom teacher, and former corporate leader—shares how embracing truth over titles transformed his life, leadership, and legacy. We explore karma, spiritual alignment in business, conscious leadership, and the real meaning of success in a world obsessed with status. If you're craving more purpose, presence, and power in your personal or professional life, this conversation will shift your perspective and inspire your soul.

🎧 Listen now for raw truth, ancient wisdom, and a blueprint for leading with heart.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to The Cindy Urrutia Podcast.

(00:03):
This week we have a very special guest who I'm excited to introduce.
His name is Anil, and I might butcher his name, so I'm gonna try to read it and say it correctly.
Anil Narain Mati.
Is, is that close? The last one is Matai.
Thank you.

(00:23):
I'm very excited that Anil joined us today because hes a rich person in terms of his background and experiences.
I'd like to share with you how I met Anil.
I met him, on LinkedIn.
Something that stood out for me is that he's a corporate holistic and spiritual coach.

(00:46):
He's an AI author.
I thought to myself, wow, spiritual and AI author.
That's interesting.
It seems like a juxtaposition, but I'm pretty sure, you'll tell us it's not.
I'm interested to know more about that.
In addition, you're a poet and, you share vedic and yogic wisdom with people as well as neuroscience and NLP.

(01:09):
What you're doing is bridging the material world with the practical world for us to have, nuggets of wisdom in terms of how to lead ourselves in leadership in the corporate world, as well as our everyday life.
I thought that was a different perspective than what I normally see on LinkedIn.

(01:31):
As I've gotten to know you a little bit through commenting on your content and reading it, it's filled with a lot of practical wisdom, grounded in ancient wisdom.
That is why I am very excited that Anil is here, because we're gonna learn a little bit about him and the way he's bridging all of these concepts.

(01:54):
Welcome, Anil.
Cindy, first of all, very good evening to you and to everybody out there.
And thank you for having me.
That was quite an introduction.
I was wondering, was it really me? Anyways, thank you very much, for inviting me to your podcast.
I am glad to be here.
Just trying to spread the word of God.

(02:16):
I mean, to be honest, that is how it is.
It's not that we don't know, but as it is said, we all need a little reminder.
I always have been very clear about it.
In our Indian culture, we say we are all yogis.
We all have, knowledge, but we just don't know how to apply it.
I can definitely relate to that because there's sometimes a bit of a trench between what we know and how to follow through and live with what we know.

(02:46):
How do I apply this knowledge? How do I share that? How do I put it out there? That's a delicate balance and a beautiful thing.
I find it interesting, this concept of how do we bring more godliness into our everyday life without necessarily promoting religion? This is a very good question.

(03:13):
I'm gonna go back, to my first experience when I started in the corporate world.
I had just graduated, with my bachelor's degree.
And I got a job in Taiwan, in Taipei, so from India I had to move there.
So first that transition happened, and then for the first six, eight months while I was on the job as the sales executive for this company, all I was doing was lying every day I'm gonna be honest because most of the salespeople rely a lot.

(03:42):
To acquire a customer or while we are negotiating with the vendors, we are lying through our teeth.
I was fortunate enough because I was already on a spiritual path, I had this opportunity of meeting, this very enlightened soul called Mrs.
Moss.
She is basically the part that I follow.
She used to initiate people in Far East, and it was the time when I, you know, in a group of 50 people, all sitting.

(04:10):
The first question I went to her, I mean, this young kid, in this group stands up and asked her, Mrs.
Moss, I'm in the sales field and I have been lying through my teeth every day to the vendors to acquire business, to my clients I'm lying to them.
I'm giving them all the crap that I shouldn't be.
Is that something that's creating a karma or is it gonna affect in any way? And she had a very beautiful answer.

(04:35):
She said, my son, everything you do is creating a karma.
Even the thought process, you are creating a karma and it is not your boss or your company who will, pay for that karma.
You are the one who will have to pay for that karma.
And I tell you that in that room of 50 people, because I know everybody who was there, all the C-suite leaders and everybody was there, and in that moment, there was an absolute silence that spread across the room, because all of us, realized we are all lying and come that day forward honestly, after that I said, I may lose my job.

(05:16):
I don't care.
But I told my bosses, I am not going to lie for y'all any further.
I am gonna put across everything straightforward to the client, come to the vendor.
I'm not gonna lie to him.
I'm not gonna cut corners in terms of pricing and everything.
I am gonna follow my soul, and my heart.

(05:36):
If it doesn't align, I don't mind losing my job.
Wow, that's very powerful because you were 21 and at 21, that's really owning yourself and having a strong sense of responsibility, which I will argue not many 21 year olds do.

(05:57):
I think back to when I was 21, I was more interested in going dancing to the club than thinking about personal responsibility.
And that's been part of my evolution I can be honest about it.
Just like you're being honest about having lied, I'm being honest, I like to be in the club dancing.
That was me almost 30 years ago.

(06:20):
We all have our own paths, but I think to find that path so young there's a certain beauty and power in it where you say, I'm gonna have responsibility and a strong sense of ethics.
I would like to ask you if you could expand a little bit about what karma means to you now, I do know that most people in the West are familiar with the concept of karma, but sometimes in the west, we bastardize things compared to how they are originally meant to be thought of in the east.

(07:01):
To clarify for some of the people who may not fully grasp this concept, can you tell us a little bit more about how your path understands karma? Okay, let's clear this doubt.
Very clearly, people in the West think karma is basically a punishment.

(07:22):
But karma is not a punishment.
Karma is a reaction to your thought process or your actions.
I'll give it to you in a very simple term.
If today I'm gonna come trying to beat you, your reaction would be to defend or you would fight it out with me.

(07:44):
But in spiritual path, Karma, it's basically maintaining the balance between the good and the evil if I'm gonna think bad about you or do anything bad to you, I will have to pay a price over a period of time because karma takes its own time to come back, and serve you what you need to be served.

(08:08):
But it is not like we've lived in a world where we need instant gratification.
Karma is not like that.
The best part I try and tell people karma takes its own time.
.66666667I have seen with my own eyes in our own families, it's taken sometimes 20, 25 years for that cycle to churn. 78 00:08:29,651.66666667 --> 00:08:30,761.66666667 To balance right. 79 00:08:30,811.66666667 --> 00:08:31,471.66666667 To find. 80 00:08:31,481.66666667 --> 00:08:35,291.66666667 Its balance where things are harmonized and balanced. 81 00:08:35,521.66666667 --> 00:08:35,851.66666667 Absolutely. 82 00:08:36,191.66666667 --> 00:08:42,771.66666667 Karma is like an accountant because even on a spiritual path, the previous master used to call it. 83 00:08:43,251.66666667 --> 00:08:45,951.66666667 It's basically like an accountant keeping balances. 84 00:08:45,951.66666667 --> 00:08:49,671.66666667 You know, it has a debit, it has a credit both sides. 85 00:08:49,671.66666667 --> 00:08:52,601.66666667 Even when you file your balance sheets, it needs to be balanced. 86 00:08:52,601.66666667 --> 00:08:58,511.66666667 So Karma is also like one of those accountant, which is holding onto, you know, both sides of your ledgers. 87 00:08:58,561.66666667 --> 00:09:00,301.66666667 Your debit as well as your credit balance. 88 00:09:00,301.66666667 --> 00:09:03,781.66666667 And when it comes time to balance it, it just balances it out. 89 00:09:03,901.66666667 --> 00:09:08,121.66666667 So it is a natural flow of things, which has. 90 00:09:09,111.66666667 --> 00:09:16,371.66666667 It's own beauty of balancing whether it comes to your thought process or your actions. 91 00:09:16,941.66666667 --> 00:09:19,581.66666667 All these create a karma. 92 00:09:21,211.66666667 --> 00:09:23,731.66666667 It could be a good karma too, right? Yes, absolutely. 93 00:09:23,861.66666667 --> 00:09:25,781.66666667 It's not all about a bad karma. 94 00:09:25,831.66666667 --> 00:09:30,391.66666667 I don't know why people always think that karma when you do wrong, it's a karma. 95 00:09:30,661.66666667 --> 00:09:30,871.66666667 No. 96 00:09:30,871.66666667 --> 00:09:35,881.66666667 Even when you do good, that is also a good karma that you are creating. 97 00:09:36,161.66666667 --> 00:09:45,191.66666667 Like you and me, we were discussing before we started the podcast about, caring for these voiceless souls that is also creating a karma. 98 00:09:45,191.66666667 --> 00:09:46,721.66666667 We're doing, a good karma. 99 00:09:47,81.66666667 --> 00:09:51,221.66666667 But now coming back to another aspect of karma. 100 00:09:51,786.66666667 --> 00:09:55,786.66666667 In our Indian scriptures, we have quite a lot of ancient texts. 101 00:09:56,356.66666667 --> 00:10:07,626.66666667 If you look at something called Bhagavad Gita, in which Lord Krishna is explaining to Arjuna, do your karma, but don't expect the rewards for it. 102 00:10:08,236.66666667 --> 00:10:17,176.66666667 Don't expect to reap the reward for it because when you have expectations, we humans, whenever we have an expectation, we are bound to fail. 103 00:10:17,176.66666667 --> 00:10:22,246.66666667 We're bound to get hurt because that expectation is going to hurt us. 104 00:10:22,526.66666667 --> 00:10:26,366.66666667 When we don't get what we are expecting. 105 00:10:26,996.66666667 --> 00:10:31,646.66666667 It creates hurt because we've also created an attachment to an outcome. 106 00:10:31,746.66666667 --> 00:10:34,356.66666667 So, never attach yourself to the outcomes. 107 00:10:34,686.66666667 --> 00:10:39,996.66666667 You just keep doing your part without expectations, without anything. 108 00:10:39,996.66666667 --> 00:10:46,806.66666667 It's just keep it clear, you know? And for me, because I have been hearing this since I was 15. 109 00:10:47,196.66666667 --> 00:10:51,566.66666667 So for me, it has become like a daily part of life. 110 00:10:51,626.66666667 --> 00:10:53,66.66666667 I don't need to try. 111 00:10:53,726.66666667 --> 00:10:59,961.66666667 It's like I just try to be present and keep myself free of all those things. 112 00:11:00,696.66666667 --> 00:11:11,546.66666667 I like that you said that you like to keep yourself present because I think that's one of the hardest things for us to do, especially because of technology. 113 00:11:11,776.66666667 --> 00:11:15,286.66666667 I find myself looking at my phone multiple times a day. 114 00:11:15,556.66666667 --> 00:11:20,26.66666667 I find myself constantly connected to the web, to email. 115 00:11:20,456.66666667 --> 00:11:39,506.66666667 I also have noticed a shift between, let's say, our generation and a slightly younger generation and how we communicate because being present has been replaced with being connected online, where we think we're connected, but we're actually disconnected. 116 00:11:40,186.66666667 --> 00:11:42,166.66666667 I go out for walks in the mornings. 117 00:11:42,201.66666667 --> 00:11:46,11.66666667 I walk my dogs and I don't like to take my phone. 118 00:11:46,61.66666667 --> 00:11:48,11.66666667 Sometimes people are like, we can't get in contact with you. 119 00:11:48,211.66666667 --> 00:11:49,501.66666667 I need to disconnect. 120 00:11:49,801.66666667 --> 00:11:52,801.66666667 Even if I'm present for like five minutes of the day. 121 00:11:53,671.66666667 --> 00:11:54,541.66666667 I need that. 122 00:11:54,541.66666667 --> 00:12:11,481.66666667 Sometimes I'm not always 100% present, but I do notice that when we are present, there's a groundedness to us that benefits us, not just in our personal life, but also in our careers. 123 00:12:11,701.66666667 --> 00:12:19,611.66666667 In the workplace because we're grounding in who we are and how we show up for ourselves and people. 124 00:12:20,31.66666667 --> 00:12:32,31.66666667 And that can be the easiest thing in the world if we build the muscle or the hardest thing in the world, if we've never even lifted one muscle, one pound of being present. 125 00:12:33,171.66666667 --> 00:12:41,381.66666667 You know, Cindy, that's a very good thing that you mentioned, that, when you go for your walks, you're making sure that, you're doing digital detox at the same time. 126 00:12:41,831.66666667 --> 00:12:47,661.66666667 I'll tell you, I did that between, Tuesday and Wednesday I traveled to Mumbai to be with my spiritual master. 127 00:12:48,61.66666667 --> 00:12:50,51.66666667 Normally we do this, twice a year. 128 00:12:50,661.66666667 --> 00:12:54,841.66666667 But January, my mother's health didn't permit us to take that trip. 129 00:12:55,321.66666667 --> 00:13:01,31.66666667 But this time we made sure that, we do it and you won't believe it those, two or three days. 130 00:13:02,171.66666667 --> 00:13:08,801.66666667 I was not even looking at my phone or I didn't carry my laptop, not connected to the internet. 131 00:13:09,281.66666667 --> 00:13:11,441.66666667 I love this time of the year. 132 00:13:11,491.66666667 --> 00:13:22,571.66666667 During the course of the week, at times of, the day, I feel I don't need to be at the laptop or connected to the world I just take the data to myself. 133 00:13:22,571.66666667 --> 00:13:29,531.66666667 I spend it with my furry companion since I have three, and, we do a lot of different things. 134 00:13:30,131.66666667 --> 00:13:34,661.66666667 There was one thing that I wanted to come and tell you a few months back. 135 00:13:34,721.66666667 --> 00:13:41,751.66666667 I was having this conversation with a very good soul and he said a very nice thing to me. 136 00:13:42,291.66666667 --> 00:13:47,511.66666667 And we are all busy uploading through social media, our statuses, this and that. 137 00:13:48,201.66666667 --> 00:13:50,61.66666667 It's like we're just putting it out. 138 00:13:50,431.66666667 --> 00:13:58,801.66666667 I'm gonna piggyback off of that and bring us full circle to LinkedIn and us meeting there in this professional sphere. 139 00:13:59,1.66666667 --> 00:14:09,241.66666667 Lately there's a lot of people talking about building your brand because, you leave your job, your brand goes with you, it makes you more hireable, it makes you, more everything. 140 00:14:09,841.66666667 --> 00:14:18,571.66666667 So I decided, okay, I'm gonna work on my brand, do the LinkedIn thing, I've had a LinkedIn account since when LinkedIn first opened. 141 00:14:18,571.66666667 --> 00:14:20,491.66666667 But I never was active on it. 142 00:14:20,491.66666667 --> 00:14:30,671.66666667 I started this journey five months ago of sharing who I am, what I do, some of my expertise with the world. 143 00:14:31,71.66666667 --> 00:14:35,231.66666667 I come from higher education, but I also have a lot of experience in leadership. 144 00:14:35,231.66666667 --> 00:14:37,931.66666667 It's one of the topics that I talk about. 145 00:14:37,931.66666667 --> 00:14:39,491.66666667 This is where you and I intersect. 146 00:14:39,491.66666667 --> 00:14:41,891.66666667 Lot of people put up content. 147 00:14:42,791.66666667 --> 00:14:54,561.66666667 It seems like there's this online ideal of what the content is on leadership, and then there's real leadership, meaning what actually happens in the office. 148 00:14:54,781.66666667 --> 00:15:11,296.66666667 And I remember two, three months ago, I saw this person who was a billionaire, posting outside of his home, by the ocean here in California with his fancy mansion and his fancy car and he said, I don't know what y'all are talking about. 149 00:15:11,656.66666667 --> 00:15:12,796.66666667 This is where I live. 150 00:15:13,336.66666667 --> 00:15:14,566.66666667 This is what I've accomplished. 151 00:15:15,301.66666667 --> 00:15:18,451.66666667 It has nothing to do with all the advice that's being put out there. 152 00:15:18,451.66666667 --> 00:15:23,831.66666667 People talk about leadership in superlative terms, like powerful leaders do this, powerful leaders do that. 153 00:15:23,881.66666667 --> 00:15:27,691.66666667 Yes, but we also make tough decisions. 154 00:15:28,561.66666667 --> 00:15:29,161.66666667 Exactly. 155 00:15:29,551.66666667 --> 00:15:32,851.66666667 You know, coming back to your point, Cindy, sorry, I'm gonna interrupt you. 156 00:15:32,851.66666667 --> 00:15:35,311.66666667 Lee said, people have been talking about building your brand. 157 00:15:36,121.66666667 --> 00:15:42,551.66666667 I'll tell you what if you go back and have a look at my account, I had my LinkedIn account when I was back in Singapore in 2002. 158 00:15:43,361.66666667 --> 00:15:46,751.66666667 To be honest, I hardly even was on LinkedIn. 159 00:15:47,831.66666667 --> 00:15:50,651.66666667 I was hardly across social media. 160 00:15:51,251.66666667 --> 00:15:54,401.66666667 Even though I've been a branding and marketing guy all my life. 161 00:15:54,501.66666667 --> 00:16:00,931.66666667 I could keep boasting about the things I have done in the past, in Singapore People like me, used to call ourselves, jaded. 162 00:16:00,931.66666667 --> 00:16:08,941.66666667 But then I realized why are we tagging ourselves? Why are we trying to label ourselves? It's just a part of the journey that was there. 163 00:16:09,281.66666667 --> 00:16:17,61.66666667 Like you rightly said, you've taken about five, six months back and I looked at LinkedIn only in 23. 164 00:16:17,361.66666667 --> 00:16:17,931.66666667 October. 165 00:16:18,171.66666667 --> 00:16:30,581.66666667 I think it was November when I actively started putting out, because if you will see what I put out is more of trying to blend spirituality, with the practical terms of, how the corporate world works. 166 00:16:30,871.66666667 --> 00:16:38,171.66666667 I have almost 17 years of serious corporate culture, working across different countries. 167 00:16:38,271.66666667 --> 00:16:51,261.6666667 Different positions and what you rightly said, I really, resonate with that, there are a lot of people because today we have the internet, ai, there's so much that AI can do for us. 168 00:16:51,261.6666667 --> 00:16:58,671.6666667 But at the end of the day, the experience that people like us, you, me, we've worked in the corporate culture. 169 00:16:59,121.6666667 --> 00:17:02,51.6666667 That AI is not gonna be able to give you no matter what. 170 00:17:02,541.6666667 --> 00:17:15,366.6666667 I find it interesting that someone like you who's had that serious hardcore undeniable corporate experience. 171 00:17:15,396.6666667 --> 00:17:20,656.6666667 You've walked the path stepping in and saying, I know the path. 172 00:17:20,656.6666667 --> 00:17:21,586.6666667 I've walked the path. 173 00:17:22,6.6666667 --> 00:17:30,136.6666667 And the path can be stronger if we incorporate the wisdom of the yogis. 174 00:17:30,356.6666667 --> 00:17:42,956.6666667 You also bring in neuroscience and NLP and that's what I find fascinating because it feels like you're walking these different paths that integrate and become one single path. 175 00:17:43,6.6666667 --> 00:17:44,836.6666667 I admire that you did that. 176 00:17:44,836.6666667 --> 00:17:48,736.6666667 So my question to you is, what made you say. 177 00:17:49,771.6666667 --> 00:18:01,741.6666667 I've had a full career in the corporate world, but now I want to talk about holistic and spiritual wisdom as well as neuroscience to create a better corporate world. 178 00:18:02,231.6666667 --> 00:18:06,881.6666667 What made you decide to do that and what is the end goal? That's a good question. 179 00:18:07,361.6666667 --> 00:18:13,341.6666667 I'm gonna cut, I'm gonna go back all the way till, 1990s when I started my career. 180 00:18:13,401.6666667 --> 00:18:16,11.6666667 'cause I was already spiritually inclined. 181 00:18:17,101.6666667 --> 00:18:20,701.6666667 As I had mentioned to you earlier about my conversation with Mrs. 182 00:18:20,701.6666667 --> 00:18:37,1.6666667 Moss about lying and given my, that period of working, when I started incorporating this into my corporate culture, the company sales increased by 25%. 183 00:18:37,251.6666667 --> 00:18:40,611.6666667 The company's net profits went up by 9%. 184 00:18:41,541.6666667 --> 00:18:50,611.6666667 I had proven to the bosses that, we don't need to lie, we don't need to, do things which are unethical. 185 00:18:51,361.6666667 --> 00:18:58,801.6666667 There was a point where we had the balance sheet to prove it, that yes, this can be achieved. 186 00:18:59,671.6666667 --> 00:19:10,266.6666667 Even though I had my senior managers who were not very happy with me, at the end of the year when we presented the balance sheet to the bosses, they were like, Hey, this makes sense. 187 00:19:11,16.6666667 --> 00:19:20,716.6666667 Now coming back to the other question, what made me do this and how it all happened actually happened in 2004, when my dad passed away. 188 00:19:21,596.6666667 --> 00:19:22,286.6666667 Condolences. 189 00:19:22,946.6666667 --> 00:19:23,516.6666667 No, please. 190 00:19:23,886.6666667 --> 00:19:25,446.6666667 I always tell people. 191 00:19:26,516.6666667 --> 00:19:27,926.6666667 Life is an illusion. 192 00:19:28,16.6666667 --> 00:19:29,426.6666667 Death is a reality. 193 00:19:30,26.6666667 --> 00:19:32,126.6666667 Today or tomorrow, we are all going to go. 194 00:19:32,216.6666667 --> 00:19:33,686.6666667 So that's a reality. 195 00:19:34,646.6666667 --> 00:19:45,201.6666667 In 2004 when this happened, I had three companies running in Singapore and my mother came up to me and said, I am going back to India no matter what. 196 00:19:46,106.6666667 --> 00:19:54,186.6666667 Are you coming with me? Or you're gonna be here? And I had to make a very difficult choice at that point whether to be with my mother. 197 00:19:55,116.6666667 --> 00:19:56,746.6666667 Or to, look at my career. 198 00:19:57,146.6666667 --> 00:20:11,166.6666667 With our Indian culture and spirituality just two or three days back, the spiritual master reassured that taking care of your parents is your primary responsibility. 199 00:20:11,376.6666667 --> 00:20:12,246.6666667 And that's the reason. 200 00:20:12,846.6666667 --> 00:20:16,26.6666667 If I don't take care of my parents, I don't have kids. 201 00:20:16,476.6666667 --> 00:20:21,156.6666667 So for me, I don't have to worry about whether my kids are going to take care of me or have that expectation. 202 00:20:21,516.6666667 --> 00:20:33,706.6666667 But as a parent, my mother who's kept me, nine months in her womb when I was not yet born, and you know, the pain that a mother goes. 203 00:20:33,766.6666667 --> 00:20:41,206.6666667 I think nobody, no other human can understand that pain especially when they are in their golden years. 204 00:20:41,836.6666667 --> 00:20:53,76.6666667 If we as children, can't step up and take our responsibilities, what is the point of having this life when you can't even take care of your own blood? Yeah. 205 00:20:53,76.6666667 --> 00:20:56,466.6666667 Especially during the golden years, they need you the most. 206 00:20:56,516.6666667 --> 00:21:02,986.6666667 They don't want money, they don't expect, all they need is respect, dignity, and you spend time with them. 207 00:21:03,16.6666667 --> 00:21:09,436.6666667 And to be honest, in 2004, when I made that call, it took me a while, a couple of weeks to make that decision. 208 00:21:09,796.6666667 --> 00:21:18,441.6666667 Took me almost two years to wind down all my three companies and come back to India in 2007, towards the 2006 end. 209 00:21:19,461.6666667 --> 00:21:24,976.6666667 We finally made that, shift and yes, life has been very different since then. 210 00:21:25,6.6666667 --> 00:21:46,696.6666667 But, if I was to turn back and had to do it again, I will still do it without any regrets because on the path of spirituality that we are, when we talk about all the neuroscience, there is something you have to understand on the spiritual path if you see people who are less educated. 211 00:21:47,186.6666667 --> 00:21:48,506.6666667 In India, we've seen that. 212 00:21:49,676.6666667 --> 00:21:54,896.6666667 We've had this experience, in a lot of countries in the world, where spiritual teachers are there. 213 00:21:55,496.6666667 --> 00:22:04,221.6666667 They'll tell you one thing, when we don't bring in our intellect, it's much easier to connect with yourself, we are not questioning too many things. 214 00:22:04,221.6666667 --> 00:22:05,91.6666667 We just follow. 215 00:22:05,971.6666667 --> 00:22:07,321.6666667 We just take it and we follow. 216 00:22:07,571.6666667 --> 00:22:15,641.6666667 It's a very simple process, but the moment we humans start using our intellect, we start complicating things. 217 00:22:16,271.6666667 --> 00:22:17,831.6666667 Life is very simple. 218 00:22:17,861.6666667 --> 00:22:20,51.6666667 If we all understand it, it's very simple. 219 00:22:20,351.6666667 --> 00:22:23,111.6666667 It's we humans who've been complicating it over time. 220 00:22:23,411.6666667 --> 00:22:30,131.6666667 We humans want to conquer everything, but we have forgotten what history teaches us. 221 00:22:30,551.6666667 --> 00:22:32,771.6666667 Look at Alexander the Great. 222 00:22:32,826.6666667 --> 00:22:34,166.6666667 He conquered everything. 223 00:22:35,76.6666667 --> 00:22:41,551.6666667 And when his time came to go, all his riches couldn't save him. 224 00:22:41,766.6666667 --> 00:22:43,776.6666667 It is written clearly in the story. 225 00:22:44,136.6666667 --> 00:22:59,816.6666667 He asked all his, you know, army and all his general to show his arms, outside his coffin while they were carrying him this is a sign to tell us we've come empty handed. 226 00:22:59,816.6666667 --> 00:23:01,101.6666667 We are gonna go empty handed. 227 00:23:01,856.6666667 --> 00:23:02,966.6666667 Exactly. 228 00:23:03,816.6666667 --> 00:23:07,216.6666667 That's, that's a very, powerful reminder. 229 00:23:07,366.6666667 --> 00:23:37,906.6666667 And my question to you is how desperate do you think we are to be reminded of these concepts, especially living in a world of gratification, hustle, needing to make money and survive living this material life where sometimes there's a disconnect? For years I've been listening because I was also in one of rat races. 230 00:23:37,906.6666667 --> 00:23:45,281.6666667 I've been there, degree to achieve more, to be, having a pat on my back from my bosses. 231 00:23:45,531.6666667 --> 00:23:47,21.6666667 Good job, you've achieved this. 232 00:23:47,361.6666667 --> 00:23:53,811.6666667 We humans have this need for gratification. 233 00:23:54,321.6666667 --> 00:23:57,291.6666667 But we forget we are here to serve. 234 00:23:58,236.6666667 --> 00:24:00,966.6666667 We humans need constant reminders. 235 00:24:01,296.6666667 --> 00:24:01,896.6666667 Yes. 236 00:24:01,961.6666667 --> 00:24:03,461.6666667 I absolutely agree with you. 237 00:24:03,461.6666667 --> 00:24:09,861.6666667 We need constant reminders and sometimes the realization becomes deeper. 238 00:24:09,861.6666667 --> 00:24:13,671.6666667 When we get reminded of something very basic, we forgot. 239 00:24:13,671.6666667 --> 00:24:20,511.6666667 When I think about money, I don't think of it as good or evil. 240 00:24:20,991.6666667 --> 00:24:24,861.6666667 I just think of it as a tool that you give value. 241 00:24:25,341.6666667 --> 00:24:33,811.6666667 It can be a tool for greed, but it could also be a tool, to improve people's lives. 242 00:24:34,331.6666667 --> 00:24:35,921.6666667 To do good. 243 00:24:35,921.6666667 --> 00:24:40,371.6666667 I feel it contradicts, the way some people view money. 244 00:24:40,371.6666667 --> 00:24:54,541.6666667 This is just my view, you don't need to agree, but I feel like the energy, of money can be very godly if it is used in a way that elevates life around us. 245 00:24:54,941.6666667 --> 00:24:57,281.6666667 Cindy, I will a hundred percent agree with you. 246 00:24:57,701.6666667 --> 00:24:58,901.6666667 Money is not bad. 247 00:24:59,821.6666667 --> 00:25:03,181.6666667 It is we humans who have been doing it. 248 00:25:03,541.6666667 --> 00:25:06,121.6666667 See, you rightly said, money is a tool. 249 00:25:06,641.6666667 --> 00:25:10,991.6666667 If you put money in the right hands, the person will use it for good. 250 00:25:11,621.6666667 --> 00:25:15,221.6666667 But if you put it in the wrong hands, he will do it for evil. 251 00:25:15,641.6666667 --> 00:25:20,221.6666667 There are people who will use drugs, do a lot of other things, but that's his doing. 252 00:25:20,491.6666667 --> 00:25:21,451.6666667 But if you put it. 253 00:25:22,201.6666667 --> 00:25:30,601.6666667 A hand of a right person, he will use that money to elevate others do good in society, provide food, shelter for people. 254 00:25:31,51.6666667 --> 00:25:34,591.6666667 So yes, a hundred percent I would go with you. 255 00:25:35,491.6666667 --> 00:25:36,271.6666667 Not even a hundred. 256 00:25:36,271.6666667 --> 00:25:39,241.6666667 I would say a thousand percent money is not bad. 257 00:25:39,641.6666667 --> 00:25:42,131.6666667 It's we humans who make it bad. 258 00:25:42,791.6666667 --> 00:25:47,141.6666667 My spiritual master, for years they have been giving us this example. 259 00:25:47,141.6666667 --> 00:25:49,661.6666667 When the previous master was there, he used to mention this. 260 00:25:50,121.6666667 --> 00:25:56,441.6666667 When we are humans, first we desire to have a two wheeler. 261 00:25:57,221.6666667 --> 00:26:03,131.6666667 The moment we've achieved that two wheeler, our greed takes us. 262 00:26:03,506.6666667 --> 00:26:05,186.6666667 To having a four wheeler. 263 00:26:05,876.6666667 --> 00:26:15,516.6666667 Now once we have reached that level, even of achieving that four wheeler, we'll drive over, you know, the four wheeler to transport us and all that. 264 00:26:16,446.6666667 --> 00:26:20,586.6666667 Then it starts with, now I need a bigger or a better brand of a four wheeler. 265 00:26:21,316.6666667 --> 00:26:24,876.6666667 Once you achieve that, you are looking at getting an airplane. 266 00:26:24,876.6666667 --> 00:26:25,836.6666667 You wanna own this. 267 00:26:26,166.6666667 --> 00:26:32,886.6666667 So at the end, if you look at it, our entire life we are spending in that green. 268 00:26:33,346.6666667 --> 00:26:35,26.6666667 I want this, I want this. 269 00:26:35,296.6666667 --> 00:26:37,906.6666667 And then what we are doing is we are working towards that. 270 00:26:38,606.6666667 --> 00:26:42,956.6666667 We are actually not only working, but it's like slogging ourselves to achieve that. 271 00:26:43,16.6666667 --> 00:26:48,36.6666667 But we also forget there is a very important thing. 272 00:26:49,456.6666667 --> 00:26:56,926.6666667 The materialistic things in which you'll look for your happiness will become the root cause of your sorrows. 273 00:26:57,466.6666667 --> 00:26:58,996.6666667 Yes, absolutely. 274 00:26:59,326.6666667 --> 00:27:13,26.6666667 And there's something that, I've been really thinking about and, wrote about in my most recent book, is having an understanding of the difference between needs and wants. 275 00:27:13,476.6666667 --> 00:27:24,36.6666667 We want many things, and those wants sometimes align with needs, and sometimes they're just a want and not what we really need. 276 00:27:24,86.6666667 --> 00:27:25,826.6666667 I have type one diabetes. 277 00:27:26,781.6666667 --> 00:27:28,611.6666667 And it's well managed, thank God. 278 00:27:29,241.6666667 --> 00:27:32,511.6666667 Sometimes I want a cookie. 279 00:27:33,111.6666667 --> 00:27:38,691.6666667 But my body does not need the extra sugar if my sugars are running high. 280 00:27:38,691.6666667 --> 00:27:42,561.6666667 What my body needs is nutritious whole foods. 281 00:27:42,761.6666667 --> 00:27:49,721.6666667 That want might be an expression of my body being hungry and needing to eat. 282 00:27:50,651.6666667 --> 00:27:53,971.6666667 But what it needs is something that's nutritious. 283 00:27:54,151.6666667 --> 00:27:56,401.6666667 Now, there's nothing wrong with the cookie. 284 00:27:57,151.6666667 --> 00:27:59,851.6666667 I can give myself the cookie as a treat. 285 00:28:00,271.6666667 --> 00:28:08,551.6666667 I ate my nutritious food to support my body, so that when I show up for myself, for people, I have energy. 286 00:28:09,421.6666667 --> 00:28:16,81.6666667 I'm at my best, I'm being the best Cindy I can be because my body is strong. 287 00:28:16,301.6666667 --> 00:28:18,521.6666667 So yeah, have a cookie. 288 00:28:18,521.6666667 --> 00:28:21,761.6666667 Enjoy the cookie, but I don't really need the cookie. 289 00:28:21,891.6666667 --> 00:28:30,941.6666667 That cookie is a desire, and those desires are not necessarily bad or good. 290 00:28:31,151.6666667 --> 00:28:40,771.6666667 It's how we use those desires, how we follow through, if all I ate was a box of cookies, I'm gonna make myself sick. 291 00:28:41,481.6666667 --> 00:28:42,141.6666667 I'll tell you why. 292 00:28:42,561.6666667 --> 00:28:44,121.6666667 Because I am a diabetic. 293 00:28:44,121.6666667 --> 00:28:48,61.6666667 I have a type two diabetic, but, mine is really bad. 294 00:28:48,91.6666667 --> 00:28:51,751.6666667 I take almost four shots a day to get through the day. 295 00:28:52,541.6666667 --> 00:28:54,461.6666667 Between the want and the need of a cookie. 296 00:28:55,441.6666667 --> 00:29:02,181.6666667 In spirituality, they say, there are times, even I feel like it, but I love brownies. 297 00:29:02,521.6666667 --> 00:29:05,551.6666667 So it's not that we don't have sugar, brownies and all that. 298 00:29:05,551.6666667 --> 00:29:06,766.6666667 It is there, all of it. 299 00:29:07,346.6666667 --> 00:29:11,546.6666667 When I do a cheat I'm like, okay, I cheat all the time. 300 00:29:12,546.6666667 --> 00:29:17,566.6666667 But this is something which is very different, it's not like I'm overdoing it. 301 00:29:17,616.6666667 --> 00:29:27,911.6666667 It's like once in a blue moon when your palate says to you, Hey, I need to be different, I need something that, so when you do that, that's okay. 302 00:29:28,151.6666667 --> 00:29:29,771.6666667 But when you overdo anything. 303 00:29:29,971.6666667 --> 00:29:32,101.6666667 That's where the problem arises. 304 00:29:32,471.6666667 --> 00:29:34,871.6666667 There's nothing wrong with wants and need. 305 00:29:35,201.6666667 --> 00:29:35,651.6666667 Yes. 306 00:29:35,751.6666667 --> 00:29:38,91.6666667 We all need to go through this life. 307 00:29:38,91.6666667 --> 00:29:40,881.6666667 Life is a serious lesson. 308 00:29:41,181.6666667 --> 00:29:44,491.6666667 We all need to evolve with understanding. 309 00:29:44,541.6666667 --> 00:29:47,121.6666667 Recently there was a nice documentary on Netflix. 310 00:29:47,421.6666667 --> 00:29:49,551.6666667 I forgot the name of that documentary. 311 00:29:49,851.6666667 --> 00:29:50,601.6666667 I'll send it to you. 312 00:29:50,961.6666667 --> 00:29:57,111.6666667 It is all about, you know, how Amazon, use the algorithm for people to buy more. 313 00:29:57,351.6666667 --> 00:30:01,671.6666667 It's not only Amazon, but all the other big brands have been tempting people to buy more. 314 00:30:02,1.6666667 --> 00:30:05,841.6666667 But at the end of the day, do we need that much? No. 315 00:30:06,111.6666667 --> 00:30:07,371.6666667 Just a few days back. 316 00:30:07,761.6666667 --> 00:30:20,711.6666667 The spiritual master was saying very clearly, what do we need? Maximum two square meals a day, a roof over our head, and a fair amount of decent clothes to wear so that we are presentable to people. 317 00:30:21,441.6666667 --> 00:30:27,631.6666667 But over the years, human greed has increased so much that we want brands. 318 00:30:27,891.6666667 --> 00:30:29,241.6666667 I'm not gonna deny this. 319 00:30:29,241.6666667 --> 00:30:35,421.6666667 There was a time when I was in the corporate culture, I wanted all the brands because I wanted to be looking good. 320 00:30:35,631.6666667 --> 00:30:45,36.6666667 But today, if you ask me over the period of last, especially since 2006 onwards, these brands don't value anymore to me. 321 00:30:46,101.6666667 --> 00:30:51,471.6666667 At the end of the day, what is it? When you're sitting on a chair, when you have that power, people respect you. 322 00:30:51,901.6666667 --> 00:30:54,181.6666667 When you're not on that chair, people don't respect you anymore. 323 00:30:55,171.6666667 --> 00:30:59,801.6666667 So for me, the corporate culture has been as long as you are up there, everybody wants you. 324 00:31:00,341.6666667 --> 00:31:12,966.6666667 Coming back to the whole thing of this want and need, we humans are the ones who are creating this want, my wife also has that habit of ordering everything didn't need, but how much at the end of the day do you need? Exactly. 325 00:31:13,16.6666667 --> 00:31:25,806.6666667 And it's okay to indulge and have those moments of joy because I think so often we negatively judge our materiality. 326 00:31:26,326.6666667 --> 00:31:29,296.6666667 But we are in physical form. 327 00:31:29,296.6666667 --> 00:31:31,846.6666667 We are a spirit within this body. 328 00:31:31,876.6666667 --> 00:31:37,386.6666667 And so there are aspects of being in physical form that are very material. 329 00:31:37,806.6666667 --> 00:31:44,286.6666667 And it is okay to enjoy the material but not be bound by the material. 330 00:31:44,386.6666667 --> 00:31:45,976.6666667 That is a very fine line. 331 00:31:46,246.6666667 --> 00:31:51,956.6666667 See when you're presenting yourself in a society or a community, there is certain. 332 00:31:52,391.6666667 --> 00:31:54,311.6666667 Way of presenting yourself. 333 00:31:54,671.6666667 --> 00:31:56,81.6666667 You need to be formally dressed. 334 00:31:56,81.6666667 --> 00:31:57,161.6666667 You need to be presentable. 335 00:31:58,281.6666667 --> 00:32:04,911.6666667 Not denying that, but as you rightfully said, overdoing anything is over killing it. 336 00:32:05,811.6666667 --> 00:32:14,271.6666667 We humans at times, go overboard with things I was, also somebody who would like, Hey, I need a brand. 337 00:32:14,371.6666667 --> 00:32:18,171.6666667 I remember those days we used to have the valley shoes then you have the clocks. 338 00:32:18,271.6666667 --> 00:32:19,471.6666667 You needed good suits. 339 00:32:19,471.6666667 --> 00:32:22,541.6666667 Like, Hugo Boss, I was one of those Armani guys. 340 00:32:22,541.6666667 --> 00:32:23,471.6666667 I used to love that. 341 00:32:23,521.6666667 --> 00:32:28,801.6666667 I remember my time when I was there, I had almost 12 suits in my wardrobe once upon a time. 342 00:32:29,161.6666667 --> 00:32:31,531.6666667 And today, if you ask me, I have only one. 343 00:32:32,481.6666667 --> 00:32:33,261.6666667 I'm happy with it. 344 00:32:33,261.6666667 --> 00:32:34,281.6666667 This is the way I am. 345 00:32:34,911.6666667 --> 00:32:36,321.6666667 It's basically trying to cut down. 346 00:32:37,41.6666667 --> 00:32:38,211.6666667 I need to be presentable. 347 00:32:38,211.6666667 --> 00:32:39,21.6666667 That's what it is. 348 00:32:39,231.6666667 --> 00:32:45,281.6666667 But yes, we humans at times, it's not that I'm pointing out to others because I have been through that path. 349 00:32:45,881.6666667 --> 00:32:57,821.6666667 It helps us understand people better when we've been in those shoes because it's easy to judge unless you've walked the path. 350 00:32:58,301.6666667 --> 00:33:04,571.6666667 So yes, because you've been in the corporate world, you had those roles, you're like, yes, I get it. 351 00:33:04,601.6666667 --> 00:33:05,621.6666667 I understand it. 352 00:33:05,621.6666667 --> 00:33:13,141.6666667 So then you could detach and not judge it and say, I've walked it, I understand it, but this is what I choose now. 353 00:33:13,481.6666667 --> 00:33:17,381.6666667 With that, I like to ask you another question. 354 00:33:18,191.6666667 --> 00:33:38,316.6666667 What shifts are you presently seen in the corporate world or not? Do you see anything changing? Do you see more of an openness to embrace, a more holistic approach to business? I'm gonna come with a very brutal answer on this. 355 00:33:39,141.6666667 --> 00:33:41,931.6666667 Very brutal, to be honest. 356 00:33:42,951.6666667 --> 00:33:52,751.6666667 I'm gonna look at, with the Indian context at this point in time, and I think it's the same across whether we took it to Europe, Asia Pacific, or any of the countries across the world. 357 00:33:53,451.6666667 --> 00:33:57,711.6666667 First of all, we have to understand spirituality has nothing to do with religion. 358 00:33:58,431.6666667 --> 00:34:01,581.6666667 Religion divides you, spirituality takes you to a higher plane. 359 00:34:01,911.6666667 --> 00:34:05,586.6666667 Now, coming to the holistic aspect of the business. 360 00:34:06,516.6666667 --> 00:34:20,516.6666667 I saw that way early in nineties with the companies that I worked with or the companies I had as an entrepreneur, but in today's times, we humans have this tendency of forgetting everything. 361 00:34:21,586.6666667 --> 00:34:30,16.6666667 We have forgotten that we went through a period of covid, which was basically a standstill. 362 00:34:30,886.6666667 --> 00:34:34,936.6666667 We survived, we lived because there was a reason for it. 363 00:34:35,416.6666667 --> 00:34:40,746.6666667 But coming back to the corporate culture today, I'm gonna be very brutal about this. 364 00:34:41,556.6666667 --> 00:34:45,656.6666667 A lot of leaders still don't understand what it is. 365 00:34:45,866.6666667 --> 00:34:47,726.6666667 I'm gonna give you a very simple example. 366 00:34:48,76.6666667 --> 00:34:52,276.6666667 There are these two strategies that are there in the business. 367 00:34:52,276.6666667 --> 00:34:53,956.6666667 One is the Red Ocean Sheet strategy. 368 00:34:54,316.6666667 --> 00:34:56,326.6666667 The other one is the Blue Ocean Strategy. 369 00:34:56,626.6666667 --> 00:34:58,966.6666667 Red Ocean tells you go and kill each other. 370 00:34:58,966.6666667 --> 00:35:02,86.6666667 You know, you fight it out like cats and dogs. 371 00:35:02,476.6666667 --> 00:35:05,816.6666667 Blue Ocean tells you, find niche markets. 372 00:35:05,816.6666667 --> 00:35:06,896.6666667 A place for yourself. 373 00:35:07,856.6666667 --> 00:35:13,866.6666667 But from a spirituality or holistic perspective, there is a very simple thing. 374 00:35:14,836.6666667 --> 00:35:22,356.6666667 You don't need to do any of the ocean all you need to do is speak to your customers, speak to your conscious, speak to them. 375 00:35:23,211.6666667 --> 00:35:26,421.6666667 Once you start doing that, you'll see the results. 376 00:35:26,791.6666667 --> 00:35:28,381.6666667 I have done it in the past. 377 00:35:28,441.6666667 --> 00:35:35,191.6666667 In the nineties when I told you I stopped lying to the clients, I stopped lying to the vendors. 378 00:35:35,221.6666667 --> 00:35:36,841.6666667 I took care of them. 379 00:35:37,261.6666667 --> 00:35:40,31.6666667 If we were making money, we knew what we needed. 380 00:35:40,721.6666667 --> 00:35:43,601.6666667 We would give the vendors a fair price. 381 00:35:43,901.6666667 --> 00:35:52,991.6666667 We would give a fair price to our clients, on the books, we had a 25% increase in the sales, we had 9% increase in the net profits. 382 00:35:53,261.6666667 --> 00:35:55,921.6666667 I achieved it by doing all these things. 383 00:35:56,161.6666667 --> 00:36:00,451.6666667 So it can be done, but there needs to be a will. 384 00:36:00,631.6666667 --> 00:36:06,511.6666667 I agree with you that we need more people to embrace this. 385 00:36:06,721.6666667 --> 00:36:14,691.6666667 But Covid, was a wake up call of people yearning for this. 386 00:36:15,81.6666667 --> 00:36:16,11.6666667 Let me tell you why. 387 00:36:16,791.6666667 --> 00:36:19,671.6666667 During Covid, we had the great resignation. 388 00:36:19,951.6666667 --> 00:36:21,151.6666667 People quit their jobs. 389 00:36:21,151.6666667 --> 00:36:25,741.6666667 A lot of people did not know why they quit their jobs other than they were unhappy. 390 00:36:26,561.6666667 --> 00:36:29,761.6666667 They knew something was wrong and they quit. 391 00:36:30,671.6666667 --> 00:36:32,771.6666667 We had never seen anything like this before. 392 00:36:32,971.6666667 --> 00:36:34,531.6666667 There has been a shift. 393 00:36:34,951.6666667 --> 00:36:53,351.6666667 Maybe we haven't named it properly, don't have the distance to fully appreciate it yet, and don't have the actual implementation of strategies that are more human centric yet. 394 00:36:53,801.6666667 --> 00:37:00,851.6666667 But there's a great calling for it because people are asking for wellness programs. 395 00:37:01,151.6666667 --> 00:37:03,911.6666667 People are asking for a lot of things. 396 00:37:03,971.6666667 --> 00:37:11,981.6666667 And I think this is coming from the bottom and not necessarily from the top, but it is shaking things up. 397 00:37:12,171.6666667 --> 00:37:24,811.6666667 It's actually something that I wrote about in my book that I published recently this idea of being more human centric and a new social contract being written. 398 00:37:24,821.6666667 --> 00:37:34,631.6666667 I did not come up with the idea of a social contractors, another woman who called for a social contract, a new social contract on Forbes Magazine. 399 00:37:34,681.6666667 --> 00:37:37,921.6666667 I had been thinking about that, but she gave it that terminology. 400 00:37:37,921.6666667 --> 00:37:41,11.6666667 I'm borrowing it from her and I can't remember her name at the moment. 401 00:37:41,561.6666667 --> 00:37:48,171.6666667 I do think there is a murmuring, a whisper that's getting louder and louder. 402 00:37:48,461.6666667 --> 00:37:53,381.6666667 I think there is an opening right now in a way that we've never had before. 403 00:37:53,381.6666667 --> 00:37:59,891.6666667 What I want to call it is an awakening of spirit where people want to feel aligned. 404 00:38:00,101.6666667 --> 00:38:17,971.6666667 When we're talking about what's my purpose or the mission of the workplace, and do I feel aligned to the mission and the purpose of a company? What people are really asking themselves is, does my spirit feel aligned? Because I think it's deeper than purpose or mission. 405 00:38:17,971.6666667 --> 00:38:29,441.6666667 It's who I am as a person aligned to this, and do I belong here? Perhaps we don't have the terminology in place and people will give things different names. 406 00:38:30,211.6666667 --> 00:38:37,381.6666667 But I do think there is something awakening within humanity that's causing the shift. 407 00:38:37,381.6666667 --> 00:38:45,611.6666667 We had Covid and now we have ai because so many people feel threatened with AI because a lot of jobs will be replaced. 408 00:38:45,611.6666667 --> 00:38:56,41.6666667 So that's gonna either push people into desperation or push people to go within and really understand who they are and what they want from life. 409 00:38:56,641.6666667 --> 00:39:02,101.6666667 And we may see this immediately, or it may not be until 30 years from now. 410 00:39:02,161.6666667 --> 00:39:02,851.6666667 I don't know. 411 00:39:02,851.6666667 --> 00:39:04,171.6666667 I cannot predict the future. 412 00:39:04,621.6666667 --> 00:39:09,301.6666667 But I do think we are living in transitional times. 413 00:39:09,641.6666667 --> 00:39:14,741.6666667 We haven't quite yet figured out what that fully means. 414 00:39:15,181.6666667 --> 00:39:17,981.6666667 I'll, agree with you on that because we are humans. 415 00:39:18,31.6666667 --> 00:39:20,311.6666667 A lot of us, are not yet enlightened that much. 416 00:39:20,521.6666667 --> 00:39:26,791.6666667 People, the souls that I have come across, a lot of them were very enlightened and they can see things. 417 00:39:27,151.6666667 --> 00:39:29,411.6666667 But for us, I am still evolving. 418 00:39:29,411.6666667 --> 00:39:30,401.6666667 I'm still learning. 419 00:39:30,401.6666667 --> 00:39:32,771.6666667 I am still very much human. 420 00:39:33,701.6666667 --> 00:39:36,551.6666667 With ai, a lot of jobs are threatened. 421 00:39:36,551.6666667 --> 00:39:49,641.6666667 Recently I attended one of the, sessions on, ai and put a post on LinkedIn regarding this, which was very thought provoking because, AI has been trained on data sets, with human biases. 422 00:39:49,861.6666667 --> 00:39:51,661.6666667 Humans have always been biased. 423 00:39:51,991.6666667 --> 00:39:52,141.6666667 Yes. 424 00:39:52,901.6666667 --> 00:40:01,421.6666667 While we were discussing this in the session, it came out that AI cannot generate an image with a left hand. 425 00:40:01,511.6666667 --> 00:40:13,631.6666667 If a person has a left hand, you know, who writes with left hand or plays with interesting AI cannot generate that image because it has been trained on data sets with the right hand. 426 00:40:14,1.6666667 --> 00:40:18,711.6666667 This was also discussed recently, in the European AI summit that was there. 427 00:40:18,981.6666667 --> 00:40:24,571.6666667 And the Indian, prime Minister also put it across that AI needs to be, you know, very fair. 428 00:40:24,841.6666667 --> 00:40:30,211.6666667 But how can AI be fair? Because all the data sets that have been given, has been biased. 429 00:40:30,541.6666667 --> 00:40:36,301.6666667 There was another example that we were discussing while we were at the session, especially with the American context. 430 00:40:36,631.6666667 --> 00:40:38,401.6666667 I'm not gonna name the brand or the company. 431 00:40:38,671.6666667 --> 00:40:40,291.6666667 They went through a huge lawsuit. 432 00:40:40,921.6666667 --> 00:40:48,261.6666667 They were using AI for their hiring process and it was so biased towards the colored people. 433 00:40:48,871.6666667 --> 00:40:50,641.6666667 It was not hiring those colored people. 434 00:40:51,61.6666667 --> 00:41:03,121.6666667 It was more white oriented people that were getting fired and there was a lawsuit they went through and now they had to go back and rework on the data sets so that their hiring process can be fair. 435 00:41:03,121.6666667 --> 00:41:08,911.6666667 When we come to ai, even AI is already biased because of the humans. 436 00:41:09,271.6666667 --> 00:41:12,181.6666667 The humans have been biased for thousands of years. 437 00:41:12,851.6666667 --> 00:41:14,861.6666667 We all have our own biases. 438 00:41:15,341.6666667 --> 00:41:20,126.6666667 So how can we expect AI not to be biased? Exactly. 439 00:41:20,476.6666667 --> 00:41:25,46.6666667 You can train ai to do certain things and you have to work with it. 440 00:41:25,46.6666667 --> 00:41:30,6.6666667 And I actually don't personally see AI as, negative. 441 00:41:30,906.6666667 --> 00:41:32,616.6666667 Many people are scared of it. 442 00:41:32,626.6666667 --> 00:41:40,456.6666667 It's a tool that is transforming us and it is going to shake up the job market. 443 00:41:40,826.6666667 --> 00:41:45,956.6666667 It's going to obliterate a lot of jobs, but I also think it's gonna create new jobs and, exactly. 444 00:41:47,751.6666667 --> 00:41:47,991.6666667 Absolutely. 445 00:41:48,531.6666667 --> 00:41:57,216.6666667 And I think it isn't anything to fear per se, but we do need to have certain ethics around it, and I think that's fair to expect. 446 00:41:57,916.6666667 --> 00:42:04,761.6666667 Cindy, I'm gonna come to you with this, given your generation and my generation, I'm gonna give you a simple example. 447 00:42:05,931.6666667 --> 00:42:13,576.6666667 I remember when we were young, we had audio tapes to play our music, prior to that, there were LPs, you had records. 448 00:42:14,266.6666667 --> 00:42:29,471.6666667 When the records transitioned, they transitioned to your audio cassettes and when audio cassettes came in, there were a lot of shakeup in the music business since I've been in the music and the entertainment business store a serious number of years. 449 00:42:30,611.6666667 --> 00:42:40,91.6666667 And then came the transition to CDs, LD players, DVDs, and then we transitioned music to MP three, and then we had the outboards and all that. 450 00:42:40,821.6666667 --> 00:42:44,211.6666667 When everything new came, people were scared. 451 00:42:44,511.6666667 --> 00:42:48,351.6666667 There were a lot of jobs that went out and a lot of new jobs that came in. 452 00:42:49,441.6666667 --> 00:43:00,791.6666667 So ai, I look at it as a tool and I, I have been telling a lot of people that I interact with in the physical world, we all talk about it. 453 00:43:01,841.6666667 --> 00:43:04,211.6666667 AI is not here to replace humans. 454 00:43:04,291.6666667 --> 00:43:14,851.6666667 It's here to help you or enhance your work process so that if you know how to use it, you can spend more time with your family. 455 00:43:14,851.6666667 --> 00:43:24,611.6666667 You can do things you want to do because being an author or book writing could take you almost six months to a year to put a book together. 456 00:43:25,391.6666667 --> 00:43:26,951.6666667 You can do that in a couple of days. 457 00:43:27,351.6666667 --> 00:43:30,641.6666667 If you know the right ways to do it, it'll do your research for you. 458 00:43:30,641.6666667 --> 00:43:35,621.6666667 It'll bring out all the papers and everything, and it'll also help you refine your writing. 459 00:43:36,291.6666667 --> 00:43:41,781.6666667 If you know how to use it properly, your possibilities are limitless. 460 00:43:42,171.6666667 --> 00:43:52,641.6666667 Whether it is, the way we grow in consciousness, the way we grow as professionals in the business world, in our relationships, in our finances. 461 00:43:52,641.6666667 --> 00:43:54,601.6666667 Everything, is limitless. 462 00:43:55,171.6666667 --> 00:43:57,581.6666667 It's the value we give to it. 463 00:43:57,581.6666667 --> 00:44:06,71.6666667 It's a beautiful thing and it's also a really beautiful thing that we're living in these times that we can be so connected because of technology. 464 00:44:06,281.6666667 --> 00:44:07,391.6666667 You're in India. 465 00:44:07,391.6666667 --> 00:44:16,91.6666667 I'm in the United States, and we are meeting online via Zoom, recording this podcast because you and I connected on LinkedIn. 466 00:44:16,621.6666667 --> 00:44:35,401.6666667 It is truly a wondrous time and we have the capability to view things with awe and wonder while remembering that we need to have a certain ethical compass with using technology. 467 00:44:35,641.6666667 --> 00:44:37,681.6666667 But technology is not a bad thing. 468 00:44:38,101.6666667 --> 00:44:40,711.6666667 What can be bad is our thought processes. 469 00:44:40,806.6666667 --> 00:44:41,166.6666667 Absolutely. 470 00:44:41,216.6666667 --> 00:44:46,296.6666667 And equally they could be quite, positive and enlightening. 471 00:44:46,296.6666667 --> 00:44:47,946.6666667 Anil, I'm so grateful to you. 472 00:44:47,946.6666667 --> 00:45:10,11.6666667 It's been quite a robust, conversation and we've touched upon so many subjects I think what's beautiful is that we're in completely different continents coming from different backgrounds, different cultures, but there's this ability for the human spirit to connect and share. 473 00:45:10,11.6666667 --> 00:45:14,831.6666667 And I think that's where we find a lot of magic, a lot of beauty in life. 474 00:45:14,831.6666667 --> 00:45:17,381.6666667 I'm honored that you were able to join us today. 475 00:45:17,381.6666667 --> 00:45:18,131.6666667 Thank you. 476 00:45:18,841.6666667 --> 00:45:19,291.6666667 Cindy. 477 00:45:20,11.6666667 --> 00:45:27,581.6666667 As you rightfully said, we are in two different corners of the world and we still connected it is the human spirit which is very true. 478 00:45:27,651.6666667 --> 00:45:33,431.6666667 As I always say, souls that are meant to cross their paths, each other's path, they will come what way. 479 00:45:34,271.6666667 --> 00:45:37,961.6666667 So the distance or the technology will not stop. 480 00:45:38,291.6666667 --> 00:45:40,781.6666667 When it is meant to happen, it will happen. 481 00:45:42,41.6666667 --> 00:45:45,701.6666667 So I was really honored to be on this podcast with you. 482 00:45:46,31.6666667 --> 00:45:53,111.6666667 I was happy that we could share so many things and I look forward to continuing our conversation over LinkedIn thank you so much, Anil. 483 00:45:53,161.6666667 --> 00:45:54,61.6666667 Until next time.