February 6, 2023 • 21 mins
Nearly 1 in 12 children, in the 1970s, were raised by a single parent. 52-year-old Richard has always wanted to know the identity of his father and wondered if testing his DNA could finally give him some answers. He appeared on series two of DNA Family Secrets and in this podcast Professor Turi King catches up with him, a year after the programme was broadcast, to see what's happened since.
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(00:01):
So, today I am talking to the wonderful Richard, who was one of our contributors on the second
series of DNA Family Secrets. And whenever I talk to people about season two yours is
one of the standout stories for them, and how you wanted to find out who your biological father was,
and we have a little story because you ended up being on the programme because you first contacted
(00:24):
me after series one, didn't you, of DNA Family Secrets, and we just heard it been recommissioned,
so I suggested you apply and the rest is history as they say. So talk me through
that little bit, because there's a story there.There is, there's always a story. My uncle used to
say to me it doesn't matter what happens as long as you get a story out of it, whether it's good
or bad, but this turned out to be really good.So, it was a midweek in the middle of lockdown,
(00:46):
my wife Kim had watched the first series and it was Bill's story. And she said,
come and watch this. And it's not something I'd normally watch, but it really kind of
hit home and I thought, okay why wouldn't I do this, which isn't normally how I’d think.
My mum had passed away about 12 months, 18 months earlier and all avenues of me ever finding out an
(01:09):
answer to who my biological dad were gone as far as I was concerned. And then this kind of came up,
and there was a book I read years ago and it's by Danny Wallace called The Yes Man,
and it's about saying yes to things, you know, if someone said to him,
will you donate? He’d have to donate, and he'd have to do all this mad crazy stuff,
but out the back of it he got an Edinburgh show and a wife and all these things. So,
not as often as I'd like to but to try and take that philosophy sometimes, and jump
(01:33):
into things that are scary, which this was.So, I thought right I'm going try and find
out who you are, and I wrote to you at Leicester University and said, I've just seen this show,
I don't know who my dad is, I've never found that out, is there anything you can do to help?
And that was it, I fired off that email and never thought I’d hear anything, and fair dues to you,
(01:54):
within a couple of hours you got back to me and said, okay this is how I take the next step.
So, yeah for you answering that email it's your fault that we're here now,
and it's also Bill's fault for having such an amazing story, and it's Kim’s fault for
making me watch it. So, all these things came together and yeah now we're here having a chat.
So, for those who haven't seen the programme, what was your question when you first came?
(02:16):
So, my question was I didn't know where it was from on my father's side. I knew everything about
my mum's side and I'd kind of been brought up by me nan and grandad. So, I knew everything about
that, but I knew nothing, just a blank page on that side, I think that's how I described it.
And I came into this and I think the question was, I don't know my biological father was,
(02:37):
was on the programme, in my mind that wasn't what I was trying to answer,
I wanted to know where I was from.I've got a big nose, so my wife was
always kind of saying, well where's that come from, I don't think it's that big, but that was
the question of who's my biological father, but that wasn't the answer I was expecting.
So, what was it like growing up?I was an only child, who lived with
(02:58):
me nan and grandad, and probably drove them mad. They brought me up and me nan was born in 1900,
so when I was born she was 69. And, you know, my mum lived with them, but although I was an only
child I used to spend all my time with my cousins, who grew up in pubs. So I spent a lot of time
with them, they were all older than me but they kind of brought me up and they were brilliant,
(03:18):
so I owe a lot to them, and also my aunties.But I had loads of other cousins and friends and
things, I was never in the house I was always out playing football, out my bike. There was times I
used to kind of think, I'd love to have a brother or a sister to play with, because everyone else
did. There was no one else school, there was no one else in the streets who was an only child,
but I didn't miss out on anything, you know I went on holidays, me aunty had a caravan. I didn't want
(03:41):
for anything, this is not a poor me story, you know, it's really not, I did really well,
playing football, loads of holidays, loads of laughs, loads of great stories, yeah it was good.
It sounds like you had a lovely childhood but I suppose there's always this thing
about who's your father. So when did that kind of start to become a thing for you?
I think as you get to kind of, I think seven, eight, I think as you start to move out of Junior
(04:03):
school, I don’t know what it’s called these days, you start to realise, parents evenings,
things like that, that certainly in Liverpool in a Catholic school there wasn't many divorces,
it just, you know, stay and be unhappy, don't try and get divorced you know you've got to
have all this type of family together.And it was a tough time in Liverpool in
the late 70s early 80s, there was a lot of unemployment, a lot of people struggling,
(04:24):
but mums and dads were always kind of there. And I did notice, okay well I haven't got this,
and remember there was one time that my granddad wanted to come and watch me play football, and
because he was so much older, and he's in his 70s, I didn't want him to come. And that's horrible,
I hate little me for that. All he wanted to do was see me play football, but I was, no I
don't want you on the line because you're older.So, I did kind of start to get into it when I was
(04:46):
about eight or nine, that I was aware that I didn't have her dad. I probably wasn't brave
enough until a few years later to actually raise it with me mum, because she could be
quite volatile now and again over this type of stuff. So, I probably wasn't brave enough until,
you know, I started senior school, high school, to kind of raise it with me mum. So, I was aware of
it but not brave enough to find anything out.So, what was it like when you asked your mum?
(05:10):
I think she ignored it the first time, I think she just probably wouldn't have said anything, just
ignored me. It was weird because, you know, me nan and granddad are really open people, but even
they kind of didn't raise it, because late 70s in Liverpool, you know, there wasn't many. And I
get there was a bit of embarrassment or whatever, but over time it became an ongoing thing, and then
it got to the point of the stories used to change every time I asked, and there was different things
(05:35):
that happened, as we got through into older years, that just kind of ruined the relationship with my
mum over time, over this. We got on, you know, I used to come see me mum all the time, but it
was always there and whenever it came up we would probably fall out over it to be honest for a bit.
So, that must be really frustrating not knowing and you've been left,
you know, without some sort of answer?There was an incident whereby I went to
(05:58):
get my birth certificate, I’m probably about 19 at this point. So I went to the records office
in Liverpool and I asked the lady said could you tell me before I buy this, has this got
a father's name on the birth certificate? And she said, I shouldn't tell you but yes it does.
So I'm like, I'm going to find out and my dad is here, this is the day I'm going find who my
dad is, I can remember that really clearly as we're talking about it. And I get it and it's
(06:19):
a made-up name on the birth certificate, one that can't be true because mum wasn't married
and it had the same surname as me. So, by that point I'm now raging, I'm so angry,
because not only that I don't know who my dad is, I've got a false birth certificate now.
So that did bring everything to a head then and it did become quite a volatile conversation then
whenever it happened. But again my mum would just dismiss it and make up this story about
(06:42):
somebody else that was just not true. I think she painted herself into a corner,
she was stubborn but she also had beliefs and principles and she probably thought for
whatever mental reason she was doing the right thing. And I get when you were younger but when
I'm still asking at 20, 30, 40, and you've got grandkids who are then asking, who are grown up,
to not tell them I just don't understand it, and it did affect the relationship with me mum.
(07:04):
So, when you came to the programme, I know kind of the question was, you know, who is my biological
father, but I know your main question was really like, I just want to know where I'm from?
Yeah, I honestly thought if I find out which part of the world I'm from, that'll do me.
Maybe that's a bit of a cop-out because, then you don't have all the other stuff that comes with it,
(07:25):
but that's the story I told myself that I was happy with, and I would have been happy with that,
and if you just stopped the conversation and said, you're from Ireland, you're more Irish
than you are English, thanks very much nice to meet you, and I’d have gone off and been made
up. I'd have honestly been made up with that.But, I mean, and that was a really easy bit,
and you touched on something really important there because, telling somebody what their
(07:47):
ancestry is on a particular side of the family is actually something that's really straightforward,
just because the databases are so huge. But we are at the mercy of the databases and who's
already tested, and how closely they match you and then being able to build the family trees.
So sometimes we aren't able to give people answers and wrap things up in a nice little bow,
and I think that's actually a really important part of this programme,
(08:08):
is that we're very honest about that. But we got some really lovely matches for your DNA and from
that able to build family trees, so I remember this, because I remember being able to tell you,
look this is your ancestry, this is a really easy bit and then my next bit is, so are you ready for
more information. What's going through your head?I'm scared now, I'm scared now, I've only watched
(08:33):
it once. You get a preview before it goes live, just to make sure that there's nothing in there
that we're not happy with, which was brilliant to see, that was great. And then when it went live
that day I thought I can't watch this, and I'll explain why because, me and you are in the room,
and obviously there's a film crew there, but as far as I'm concerned it's just me and you
and we're chatting, like we are now. And we've done the bit around you saying that,
(08:58):
and I'm thinking, this is brilliant, great, and then you say to me, we found more are you ready?
and even now it's hard because, I know that everything that I've been told for 50 years
is about to change, in that moment, and to have that, both as an opportunity,
(09:18):
but to know that something is about to be given to you where it's all about to change,
was just overwhelming. And I think I look out the window for a good couple of minutes
before I can even speak. And even now it's hard because I couldn't speak because,
you've got this stuff for me, and I know I must have gave off waves of emotion because you were
kind of pushing the tissues towards me, but that's why I've not watched it because I know how scared
(09:42):
I am. I think that's the word, I'll use it, I'm scared, because I don't know what's coming.
It's hard to describe. Anyone who's going through this type of stuff, or has some unanswered
questions, will hopefully understand where I'm coming from, but if you've not been through it's
really hard to explain. But I just know that I was, I couldn't speak before you even told me the
(10:02):
answers, I couldn't speak because I knew you were going to tell me something that was just about
to change everything. And I wasn't scared what the answers are, it just that it was an answer.
It's life-changing and the biggest life-changing bit for me is the fact I don't have to think
about it anymore. And when you’re lying awake at night, you're thinking, I wonder who my dad is,
or why did my mum not tell me this, I don't do that no more. And that's just fantastic and I used
(10:26):
to think about it all the time, you know, wonder what's going on, why has that happened, I don't
think about that anymore and that's amazing. That is so great to have that nonsense out your head,
it's like a weight gets lifted, it's really good.So, obviously what I was able to do was to tell
you who your grandparents were. And then from that could work out that your biological father
(10:51):
must have been one of three brothers. And we were really lucky because one of the sons,
of one of those three brothers, was more than happy to take a DNA test, he was absolutely
wonderful, and took a DNA test and that allowed us to pin down who your biological father was.
And you've alluded to this here, your expectations are lower because you don't know what you're going
(11:15):
to get, and then we're able to tell you who your biological father is and that they're alive,
so I knew like telling you this, I could see this was huge. So you leave me, and I know you're going
to go off and see Stacey, but what happened next?So, the first bit is we leave that room and my
(11:36):
wife Kim is outside, and she's like, what have you found out, and I think I say to her, everything,
and she goes, what do you mean. I show her the piece of paper that you've drawn and I went,
grandparents, father, brothers and sisters, I found everything out. I'm shaking at this point
I think and I don’t know what's going on anymore, this is all like too much.
(11:58):
So then we go into the room with Stacey and I just think we're doing a bit of a wrap up here,
and then she gets the envelope out and starts showing me pictures. So they become real then,
they're real people, and then they get an actual email from somebody who's related to me,
who I didn't know about. It's astounding from a Saturday morning to go to Leicester,
(12:22):
and that then to be the outcome.And it was just a lot to take in but then,
and I will be honest, I left and sat in the car and went, I can't just leave now,
that can't be it, that can't be it now that I've done that and I leave, what happens next. And I
thought I need to speak to the help and support that I've got from the programme and navigate my
(12:43):
way through this in the best way because I don't want to mess this up, and I want to do it in the
right way. Because if I go in all guns blazing, going here I am, that could all go wrong. So,
I don't know how to be a brother, I don't know if I am a brother, I don't know what this is.
So, it was then me overthinking things probably, but also trying to take a step
(13:08):
back from everything that's gone on, and thinking, right what do we do next. And
that's where the support that you have in the background is just amazing, because they
help you go through all of this stuff, social workers, psychologists, the production team.
You're totally right, how do you deal with this, how do you form a, do you
(13:28):
form a relationship, how does that work?The email, I read that over and over again
and tried to read between the lines, do you want to meet me. I think you said says it's a shock,
but a really nice shock. So the next steps were, there's an amazing lady who, I think you have
people who specialize in different parts of the world, and I had a lady called Siobhan, and we had
(13:51):
lots of really good chats, and she kind of filled me in on some of the background to Irish families,
and what this could mean and what was going on, and she acted as an intermediary between us.
She's our social worker and she's amazing.She is amazing. I think we found out at
Christmas time, that they had seen all the details and the science that goes behind it,
(14:17):
and also what's conclusive is the pictures because we all look alike, and accepted that,
hey here I am, and they knew nothing about me. So I think one of the things I wasn't prepared
for when I went into this that, at the other end there's another outcome here for these people, and
I've turned their lives upside down, for better or for worse, and I didn't think about that, I'll
(14:41):
be completely honest. I hadn't thought about that because back to my point, I never thought this was
going to be the outcome, so I didn't think about that. And then you start to worry, I hope the
timelines worked, and that I was the oldest, and didn't exist before all these, you start to get
into all of that, and think, oh no I've caused all kinds of problems here. Turns out, none of
(15:03):
that was a real problem, and it all happened long before they’d arrived and stuff like that.
So, I didn't know any of this till kind of Christmas time, that they were then wanted
to meet me and that was fantastic, but we didn't actually meet until three months later. Obviously
there was a lot for them to navigate through, and they were trying to process it in their own way,
but I understand it completely. Not only have they found out, hello I exist, so for me dad he’s found
(15:29):
out he's got a son he knew nothing about, there's a new brother, half-brother Richard, oh and by the
way it's going to be broadcast on TV. They must have been, what is going on here, because I would,
what do you mean? Okay that's enough to take, but it's going to be on the BBC with Stacey Dooley.
And I completely understand why you'd want to take your time and get through this. So,
(15:51):
yeah it was a mad six months after we met.And you're absolutely right it's one of the things
that we are completely aware of, is that, we don't know how the other side of this, where are they in
their lives, and how is this going to impact them? So obviously it's about protecting their privacy,
as well as having you being able to make contact, and we always say to people, take it slowly
(16:16):
because it allows people to digest the news, I think, and process it really. So clearly that
happened and they met you, what's happened since?So we eventually got in touch via Siobhan,
and they said they wanted to meet me. So my dad was ready to meet me, and he’d accepted everything
(16:41):
and remembered where he'd met me mum. And it was all the timeline all worked out long before
anyone else arrived. So I went from being an only child to the oldest of five, if you like. Kim was
desperate to come with me, and I was saying, no I just need to do this by myself. I'd been advised
to do it by myself so they weren't overwhelmed.It's quite a difficult one, well how did you meet
(17:03):
my mum? That's a question you can't really ask time and time again to a guy who's in his 70s,
that's a tough one. So I needed to be able to ask these questions and I think for them they might
have been wary of me, you know, I just pitch up and, hello I'm your new half-brother, son, but I
think it went well. There was pictures brought along, which was nice, and I was given them,
(17:25):
and we went through all the families, it turns out my daughter and one of my half-brother’s
daughter have got the same name, and there was just a lot of that type of thing going on,
and it was nice it was a good chat.And then within a couple of weeks
I met my half-sister, who was over from overseas and half-brother, I met them. And the one person
(17:46):
I hadn't met was the person who'd done the DNA test, who I'll be forever grateful for and he
knows that. So I managed to get his contact details, got in touch with him and said,
I know we haven't met and I want to say thank you because I've been brought up that way,
so will you meet me, and he said, yeah absolutely come on. And I went to his house,
(18:08):
knocked on the door, it was like looking at me, and he opened the door and he said,
hello brother and gave me the most massive hug in the world. Yeah, the bugger, made me cry, amazing.
So at this point it's an emotional wreck, I'm just on the floor, but that was where we got to before
the programmes come out, yeah, so we'd all met.So the programme comes out, and how does it go,
(18:32):
did you watch it?I didn't want to.
I don't want to watch it because of how impactful it is for me, and I didn't want to see myself go
through that again, because it's a hard watch for me, you know, I think I've made people cry.
I know the outcome, I know the story, I'm really pleased that it's on there for both my grandson
(18:54):
and granddaughter to be able to watch as they get older, and they'll have they'll have that.
And it's a good story isn’t it, it's a good story with a nice outcome, but yeah, it was hard for
me to watch, Kim's watched it a few times.We've got a picture in the other room of me
Kim and Eddie the dog, on a beach taken from one of the stills of the programme, and I see
(19:16):
that every day because it's just the beach and it's the sun coming in and it's just us three.
I didn't think I was going to get emotional.
And where are you now with your family?It's going really well, I think. My,
I don't know what I’d call her, my dad's wife, who I thought would probably be the one
(19:41):
who would be the most suspicious, who'd have the most reason to not get involved in this,
has been really supportive and has been, you know, really I think was one of the driving forces,
you've got to go meet this guy, you need to go and see him, it's not fair on him,
you need to go and see him because he needs to see you guys and things like that,
(20:03):
and I'll be forever grateful for her for that, because she could have easily gone, whoa you're
not coming in and disrupting my family, and she didn't, she welcomed me with open arms, and Kim.
She's amazing for doing that I think, yeah, I'm not sure how many people would have done that.
So one of the things about when people come to the programme is that you feel
(20:24):
like there's been a big hole in their life, and it's been really quite encompassing. And
then we're able to give them answers, when that solved does that in itself leave a gap then?
The not knowing bit is a gap that I am quite happy never to have filled. That's been pushed away,
(20:44):
I don't worry about it anymore, that's done and dusted. I miss the programme though,
and I miss the people around it, and I miss the fact that it was such a positive outcome,
you know, that’s a bit euphoric, that however scary it was and however worried
I was in that room with me and you, the joy that came out of that at the end, you know,
(21:07):
I think anyone would miss that, because you don't get many feelings like that in your life do you.
So I think that's the thing that probably left a little bit of a gap for a bit, because you've
lived it for so long. Even the process of the filming and things like that, when everyone left
and, you know, they clear all the stuff away, you think, oh well that's the end of that, but it's
not because we're here today, we're having a chat again today, and it'll always be there if anyone
(21:30):
ever wants to see it, so yeah it doesn't end.Richard it's been so lovely to see you again.
I always warn people when they're going to watch the programme that they're going to need tissues,
and as I suspected you made me cry again, but thank you so much for chatting to me.
So, today I am talking to the wonderful Richard, who was one of our contributors on the second
series of DNA Family Secrets. And whenever I talk to people about season two yours is
one of the standout stories for them, and how you wanted to find out who your biological father was,
and we have a little story because you ended up being on the programme because you first contacted
(00:24):
me after series one, didn't you, of DNA Family Secrets, and we just heard it been recommissioned,
so I suggested you apply and the rest is history as they say. So talk me through
that little bit, because there's a story there.There is, there's always a story. My uncle used to
say to me it doesn't matter what happens as long as you get a story out of it, whether it's good
or bad, but this turned out to be really good.So, it was a midweek in the middle of lockdown,
(00:46):
my wife Kim had watched the first series and it was Bill's story. And she said,
come and watch this. And it's not something I'd normally watch, but it really kind of
hit home and I thought, okay why wouldn't I do this, which isn't normally how I’d think.
My mum had passed away about 12 months, 18 months earlier and all avenues of me ever finding out an
(01:09):
answer to who my biological dad were gone as far as I was concerned. And then this kind of came up,
and there was a book I read years ago and it's by Danny Wallace called The Yes Man,
and it's about saying yes to things, you know, if someone said to him,
will you donate? He’d have to donate, and he'd have to do all this mad crazy stuff,
but out the back of it he got an Edinburgh show and a wife and all these things. So,
not as often as I'd like to but to try and take that philosophy sometimes, and jump
(01:33):
into things that are scary, which this was.So, I thought right I'm going try and find
out who you are, and I wrote to you at Leicester University and said, I've just seen this show,
I don't know who my dad is, I've never found that out, is there anything you can do to help?
And that was it, I fired off that email and never thought I’d hear anything, and fair dues to you,
(01:54):
within a couple of hours you got back to me and said, okay this is how I take the next step.
So, yeah for you answering that email it's your fault that we're here now,
and it's also Bill's fault for having such an amazing story, and it's Kim’s fault for
making me watch it. So, all these things came together and yeah now we're here having a chat.
So, for those who haven't seen the programme, what was your question when you first came?
(02:16):
So, my question was I didn't know where it was from on my father's side. I knew everything about
my mum's side and I'd kind of been brought up by me nan and grandad. So, I knew everything about
that, but I knew nothing, just a blank page on that side, I think that's how I described it.
And I came into this and I think the question was, I don't know my biological father was,
(02:37):
was on the programme, in my mind that wasn't what I was trying to answer,
I wanted to know where I was from.I've got a big nose, so my wife was
always kind of saying, well where's that come from, I don't think it's that big, but that was
the question of who's my biological father, but that wasn't the answer I was expecting.
So, what was it like growing up?I was an only child, who lived with
(02:58):
me nan and grandad, and probably drove them mad. They brought me up and me nan was born in 1900,
so when I was born she was 69. And, you know, my mum lived with them, but although I was an only
child I used to spend all my time with my cousins, who grew up in pubs. So I spent a lot of time
with them, they were all older than me but they kind of brought me up and they were brilliant,
(03:18):
so I owe a lot to them, and also my aunties.But I had loads of other cousins and friends and
things, I was never in the house I was always out playing football, out my bike. There was times I
used to kind of think, I'd love to have a brother or a sister to play with, because everyone else
did. There was no one else school, there was no one else in the streets who was an only child,
but I didn't miss out on anything, you know I went on holidays, me aunty had a caravan. I didn't want
(03:41):
for anything, this is not a poor me story, you know, it's really not, I did really well,
playing football, loads of holidays, loads of laughs, loads of great stories, yeah it was good.
It sounds like you had a lovely childhood but I suppose there's always this thing
about who's your father. So when did that kind of start to become a thing for you?
I think as you get to kind of, I think seven, eight, I think as you start to move out of Junior
(04:03):
school, I don’t know what it’s called these days, you start to realise, parents evenings,
things like that, that certainly in Liverpool in a Catholic school there wasn't many divorces,
it just, you know, stay and be unhappy, don't try and get divorced you know you've got to
have all this type of family together.And it was a tough time in Liverpool in
the late 70s early 80s, there was a lot of unemployment, a lot of people struggling,
(04:24):
but mums and dads were always kind of there. And I did notice, okay well I haven't got this,
and remember there was one time that my granddad wanted to come and watch me play football, and
because he was so much older, and he's in his 70s, I didn't want him to come. And that's horrible,
I hate little me for that. All he wanted to do was see me play football, but I was, no I
don't want you on the line because you're older.So, I did kind of start to get into it when I was
(04:46):
about eight or nine, that I was aware that I didn't have her dad. I probably wasn't brave
enough until a few years later to actually raise it with me mum, because she could be
quite volatile now and again over this type of stuff. So, I probably wasn't brave enough until,
you know, I started senior school, high school, to kind of raise it with me mum. So, I was aware of
it but not brave enough to find anything out.So, what was it like when you asked your mum?
(05:10):
I think she ignored it the first time, I think she just probably wouldn't have said anything, just
ignored me. It was weird because, you know, me nan and granddad are really open people, but even
they kind of didn't raise it, because late 70s in Liverpool, you know, there wasn't many. And I
get there was a bit of embarrassment or whatever, but over time it became an ongoing thing, and then
it got to the point of the stories used to change every time I asked, and there was different things
(05:35):
that happened, as we got through into older years, that just kind of ruined the relationship with my
mum over time, over this. We got on, you know, I used to come see me mum all the time, but it
was always there and whenever it came up we would probably fall out over it to be honest for a bit.
So, that must be really frustrating not knowing and you've been left,
you know, without some sort of answer?There was an incident whereby I went to
(05:58):
get my birth certificate, I’m probably about 19 at this point. So I went to the records office
in Liverpool and I asked the lady said could you tell me before I buy this, has this got
a father's name on the birth certificate? And she said, I shouldn't tell you but yes it does.
So I'm like, I'm going to find out and my dad is here, this is the day I'm going find who my
dad is, I can remember that really clearly as we're talking about it. And I get it and it's
(06:19):
a made-up name on the birth certificate, one that can't be true because mum wasn't married
and it had the same surname as me. So, by that point I'm now raging, I'm so angry,
because not only that I don't know who my dad is, I've got a false birth certificate now.
So that did bring everything to a head then and it did become quite a volatile conversation then
whenever it happened. But again my mum would just dismiss it and make up this story about
(06:42):
somebody else that was just not true. I think she painted herself into a corner,
she was stubborn but she also had beliefs and principles and she probably thought for
whatever mental reason she was doing the right thing. And I get when you were younger but when
I'm still asking at 20, 30, 40, and you've got grandkids who are then asking, who are grown up,
to not tell them I just don't understand it, and it did affect the relationship with me mum.
(07:04):
So, when you came to the programme, I know kind of the question was, you know, who is my biological
father, but I know your main question was really like, I just want to know where I'm from?
Yeah, I honestly thought if I find out which part of the world I'm from, that'll do me.
Maybe that's a bit of a cop-out because, then you don't have all the other stuff that comes with it,
(07:25):
but that's the story I told myself that I was happy with, and I would have been happy with that,
and if you just stopped the conversation and said, you're from Ireland, you're more Irish
than you are English, thanks very much nice to meet you, and I’d have gone off and been made
up. I'd have honestly been made up with that.But, I mean, and that was a really easy bit,
and you touched on something really important there because, telling somebody what their
(07:47):
ancestry is on a particular side of the family is actually something that's really straightforward,
just because the databases are so huge. But we are at the mercy of the databases and who's
already tested, and how closely they match you and then being able to build the family trees.
So sometimes we aren't able to give people answers and wrap things up in a nice little bow,
and I think that's actually a really important part of this programme,
(08:08):
is that we're very honest about that. But we got some really lovely matches for your DNA and from
that able to build family trees, so I remember this, because I remember being able to tell you,
look this is your ancestry, this is a really easy bit and then my next bit is, so are you ready for
more information. What's going through your head?I'm scared now, I'm scared now, I've only watched
(08:33):
it once. You get a preview before it goes live, just to make sure that there's nothing in there
that we're not happy with, which was brilliant to see, that was great. And then when it went live
that day I thought I can't watch this, and I'll explain why because, me and you are in the room,
and obviously there's a film crew there, but as far as I'm concerned it's just me and you
and we're chatting, like we are now. And we've done the bit around you saying that,
(08:58):
and I'm thinking, this is brilliant, great, and then you say to me, we found more are you ready?
and even now it's hard because, I know that everything that I've been told for 50 years
is about to change, in that moment, and to have that, both as an opportunity,
(09:18):
but to know that something is about to be given to you where it's all about to change,
was just overwhelming. And I think I look out the window for a good couple of minutes
before I can even speak. And even now it's hard because I couldn't speak because,
you've got this stuff for me, and I know I must have gave off waves of emotion because you were
kind of pushing the tissues towards me, but that's why I've not watched it because I know how scared
(09:42):
I am. I think that's the word, I'll use it, I'm scared, because I don't know what's coming.
It's hard to describe. Anyone who's going through this type of stuff, or has some unanswered
questions, will hopefully understand where I'm coming from, but if you've not been through it's
really hard to explain. But I just know that I was, I couldn't speak before you even told me the
(10:02):
answers, I couldn't speak because I knew you were going to tell me something that was just about
to change everything. And I wasn't scared what the answers are, it just that it was an answer.
It's life-changing and the biggest life-changing bit for me is the fact I don't have to think
about it anymore. And when you’re lying awake at night, you're thinking, I wonder who my dad is,
or why did my mum not tell me this, I don't do that no more. And that's just fantastic and I used
(10:26):
to think about it all the time, you know, wonder what's going on, why has that happened, I don't
think about that anymore and that's amazing. That is so great to have that nonsense out your head,
it's like a weight gets lifted, it's really good.So, obviously what I was able to do was to tell
you who your grandparents were. And then from that could work out that your biological father
(10:51):
must have been one of three brothers. And we were really lucky because one of the sons,
of one of those three brothers, was more than happy to take a DNA test, he was absolutely
wonderful, and took a DNA test and that allowed us to pin down who your biological father was.
And you've alluded to this here, your expectations are lower because you don't know what you're going
(11:15):
to get, and then we're able to tell you who your biological father is and that they're alive,
so I knew like telling you this, I could see this was huge. So you leave me, and I know you're going
to go off and see Stacey, but what happened next?So, the first bit is we leave that room and my
(11:36):
wife Kim is outside, and she's like, what have you found out, and I think I say to her, everything,
and she goes, what do you mean. I show her the piece of paper that you've drawn and I went,
grandparents, father, brothers and sisters, I found everything out. I'm shaking at this point
I think and I don’t know what's going on anymore, this is all like too much.
(11:58):
So then we go into the room with Stacey and I just think we're doing a bit of a wrap up here,
and then she gets the envelope out and starts showing me pictures. So they become real then,
they're real people, and then they get an actual email from somebody who's related to me,
who I didn't know about. It's astounding from a Saturday morning to go to Leicester,
(12:22):
and that then to be the outcome.And it was just a lot to take in but then,
and I will be honest, I left and sat in the car and went, I can't just leave now,
that can't be it, that can't be it now that I've done that and I leave, what happens next. And I
thought I need to speak to the help and support that I've got from the programme and navigate my
(12:43):
way through this in the best way because I don't want to mess this up, and I want to do it in the
right way. Because if I go in all guns blazing, going here I am, that could all go wrong. So,
I don't know how to be a brother, I don't know if I am a brother, I don't know what this is.
So, it was then me overthinking things probably, but also trying to take a step
(13:08):
back from everything that's gone on, and thinking, right what do we do next. And
that's where the support that you have in the background is just amazing, because they
help you go through all of this stuff, social workers, psychologists, the production team.
You're totally right, how do you deal with this, how do you form a, do you
(13:28):
form a relationship, how does that work?The email, I read that over and over again
and tried to read between the lines, do you want to meet me. I think you said says it's a shock,
but a really nice shock. So the next steps were, there's an amazing lady who, I think you have
people who specialize in different parts of the world, and I had a lady called Siobhan, and we had
(13:51):
lots of really good chats, and she kind of filled me in on some of the background to Irish families,
and what this could mean and what was going on, and she acted as an intermediary between us.
She's our social worker and she's amazing.She is amazing. I think we found out at
Christmas time, that they had seen all the details and the science that goes behind it,
(14:17):
and also what's conclusive is the pictures because we all look alike, and accepted that,
hey here I am, and they knew nothing about me. So I think one of the things I wasn't prepared
for when I went into this that, at the other end there's another outcome here for these people, and
I've turned their lives upside down, for better or for worse, and I didn't think about that, I'll
(14:41):
be completely honest. I hadn't thought about that because back to my point, I never thought this was
going to be the outcome, so I didn't think about that. And then you start to worry, I hope the
timelines worked, and that I was the oldest, and didn't exist before all these, you start to get
into all of that, and think, oh no I've caused all kinds of problems here. Turns out, none of
(15:03):
that was a real problem, and it all happened long before they’d arrived and stuff like that.
So, I didn't know any of this till kind of Christmas time, that they were then wanted
to meet me and that was fantastic, but we didn't actually meet until three months later. Obviously
there was a lot for them to navigate through, and they were trying to process it in their own way,
but I understand it completely. Not only have they found out, hello I exist, so for me dad he’s found
(15:29):
out he's got a son he knew nothing about, there's a new brother, half-brother Richard, oh and by the
way it's going to be broadcast on TV. They must have been, what is going on here, because I would,
what do you mean? Okay that's enough to take, but it's going to be on the BBC with Stacey Dooley.
And I completely understand why you'd want to take your time and get through this. So,
(15:51):
yeah it was a mad six months after we met.And you're absolutely right it's one of the things
that we are completely aware of, is that, we don't know how the other side of this, where are they in
their lives, and how is this going to impact them? So obviously it's about protecting their privacy,
as well as having you being able to make contact, and we always say to people, take it slowly
(16:16):
because it allows people to digest the news, I think, and process it really. So clearly that
happened and they met you, what's happened since?So we eventually got in touch via Siobhan,
and they said they wanted to meet me. So my dad was ready to meet me, and he’d accepted everything
(16:41):
and remembered where he'd met me mum. And it was all the timeline all worked out long before
anyone else arrived. So I went from being an only child to the oldest of five, if you like. Kim was
desperate to come with me, and I was saying, no I just need to do this by myself. I'd been advised
to do it by myself so they weren't overwhelmed.It's quite a difficult one, well how did you meet
(17:03):
my mum? That's a question you can't really ask time and time again to a guy who's in his 70s,
that's a tough one. So I needed to be able to ask these questions and I think for them they might
have been wary of me, you know, I just pitch up and, hello I'm your new half-brother, son, but I
think it went well. There was pictures brought along, which was nice, and I was given them,
(17:25):
and we went through all the families, it turns out my daughter and one of my half-brother’s
daughter have got the same name, and there was just a lot of that type of thing going on,
and it was nice it was a good chat.And then within a couple of weeks
I met my half-sister, who was over from overseas and half-brother, I met them. And the one person
(17:46):
I hadn't met was the person who'd done the DNA test, who I'll be forever grateful for and he
knows that. So I managed to get his contact details, got in touch with him and said,
I know we haven't met and I want to say thank you because I've been brought up that way,
so will you meet me, and he said, yeah absolutely come on. And I went to his house,
(18:08):
knocked on the door, it was like looking at me, and he opened the door and he said,
hello brother and gave me the most massive hug in the world. Yeah, the bugger, made me cry, amazing.
So at this point it's an emotional wreck, I'm just on the floor, but that was where we got to before
the programmes come out, yeah, so we'd all met.So the programme comes out, and how does it go,
(18:32):
did you watch it?I didn't want to.
I don't want to watch it because of how impactful it is for me, and I didn't want to see myself go
through that again, because it's a hard watch for me, you know, I think I've made people cry.
I know the outcome, I know the story, I'm really pleased that it's on there for both my grandson
(18:54):
and granddaughter to be able to watch as they get older, and they'll have they'll have that.
And it's a good story isn’t it, it's a good story with a nice outcome, but yeah, it was hard for
me to watch, Kim's watched it a few times.We've got a picture in the other room of me
Kim and Eddie the dog, on a beach taken from one of the stills of the programme, and I see
(19:16):
that every day because it's just the beach and it's the sun coming in and it's just us three.
I didn't think I was going to get emotional.
And where are you now with your family?It's going really well, I think. My,
I don't know what I’d call her, my dad's wife, who I thought would probably be the one
(19:41):
who would be the most suspicious, who'd have the most reason to not get involved in this,
has been really supportive and has been, you know, really I think was one of the driving forces,
you've got to go meet this guy, you need to go and see him, it's not fair on him,
you need to go and see him because he needs to see you guys and things like that,
(20:03):
and I'll be forever grateful for her for that, because she could have easily gone, whoa you're
not coming in and disrupting my family, and she didn't, she welcomed me with open arms, and Kim.
She's amazing for doing that I think, yeah, I'm not sure how many people would have done that.
So one of the things about when people come to the programme is that you feel
(20:24):
like there's been a big hole in their life, and it's been really quite encompassing. And
then we're able to give them answers, when that solved does that in itself leave a gap then?
The not knowing bit is a gap that I am quite happy never to have filled. That's been pushed away,
(20:44):
I don't worry about it anymore, that's done and dusted. I miss the programme though,
and I miss the people around it, and I miss the fact that it was such a positive outcome,
you know, that’s a bit euphoric, that however scary it was and however worried
I was in that room with me and you, the joy that came out of that at the end, you know,
(21:07):
I think anyone would miss that, because you don't get many feelings like that in your life do you.
So I think that's the thing that probably left a little bit of a gap for a bit, because you've
lived it for so long. Even the process of the filming and things like that, when everyone left
and, you know, they clear all the stuff away, you think, oh well that's the end of that, but it's
not because we're here today, we're having a chat again today, and it'll always be there if anyone
(21:30):
ever wants to see it, so yeah it doesn't end.Richard it's been so lovely to see you again.
I always warn people when they're going to watch the programme that they're going to need tissues,
and as I suspected you made me cry again, but thank you so much for chatting to me.
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