Peterson Toscano (he/him) and Miche McCall (they/them) look at how Quaker meetings align their financial practices with their values. The episode features Joann Neuroth sharing how Red Cedar Meeting in Lansing, Michigan, has shifted its financial priorities to work towards racial justice. Alicia Mendonca-Richards discusses how Quakers can embrace mystical knowledge to rethink our economy. You will also hear Brian McLaren from an excerpt of Climate Changed, a podcast by The BTS Center. He considers how to maintain a vibrant life while navigating unavoidable losses and significant uncertainties.
Moving From Hand Wringing to Agency: A Quaker Meeting Uses Money as a Vehicle for Action
Joann Neuroth highlights how Quaker meetings can make financial decisions that align with their values. She emphasizes thoughtful stewardship, intentional action, and the potential to contribute to community well-being by using financial resources to address injustice and meet community needs.
Red Cedar Meeting moved its long-term maintenance fund to Liberty Bank, a Black-owned bank in Detroit, to support Black communities. It makes annual payments to The Justice League of Greater Lansing Michigan as reparations, acknowledging that these resources belong to those harmed by slavery, segregation, and white supremacy. Red Cedar Meeting also created a tiny pantry to provide free food to the community. This project began with a few members bringing extra groceries and grew to distribute approximately $11,000 worth of food annually.
Joann Neuroth wrote the article “Putting Our Money Where Our Hearts Are.” It appears in the January 2025 issue of FriendsJournal.org. Joann is a member of Red Cedar Meeting in Lansing, Mich. She has served on the boards of American Friends Service Committee and the School of the Spirit Ministry, where she will co-teach an upcoming spiritual nurture class, "God's Promise Fulfilled: Encountering and Embodying Grace in the Shadow of Empire”.
How Quakers Can Rethink the Economy
Alicia Mendonca-Richards shares her insights on how Quakers can rethink the economy. She argues that the current system, based on unsustainable growth and competition, distracts from what truly matters. Mendonca-Richards connects economic thought and mysticism, suggesting that mystical knowledge can be a foundation for courageous action and alternative economic models.
The full video featuring Alicia Mendonca-Richards and other QuakerSpeak videos can be found on the QuakerSpeak YouTube channel or at Quakerspeak.com.
Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart by Brian McLaren.
In Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart, Brian McLaren explores the anxieties and uncertainties many people feel about the future of our planet and civilization. He acknowledges the serious challenges we face, including climate change, social and political divisions, and the decline of traditional institutions. However, instead of dwelling on despair, McLaren focuses on finding meaning and purpose in the face of these challenges. Audio with Brian McLaren comes from The BTS Center's podcast, Climate Changed, which offers intimate interviews and conversations around some of the most pressing questions about faith, life, and climate change. Thank you, BTS Center!
learn how to challenge the scarcity mentality and take
control of spending. Joanne's insights about
carefully managing resources may just
enlighten you about your own personal finances.
I'm Peterson Centiscano.
>> Miche McCall (00:48):
And I'm Miche McCall. This is season four,
episode two of the Quakers Today podcast, a
project of the Friends Publishing Corporation. This
season of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends
Fiduciary and American Friends Service
Committee.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:03):
As a wise Swedish philosopher once
said, money, money, money
must be funny in the rich man's world. Oh,
uh, wait, that's an ABBA song.
But it's true. Money is
definitely a funny thing, especially in our society,
where so much money is earned through
exploiting others.
>> Miche McCall (01:25):
Yeah, I mean, wow. I never
thought about ABBA as being a
particularly deep band, but you're. You're right.
That song does get at the heart of something. Money
can, uh, bring us security, but it can also
cause a lot of harm. It can open
doors, but money can also build walls and
(01:46):
make it a rich man's world.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:48):
And talking about money in a spiritual context, it.
It always feels a little weird to me. It, uh,
feels, I don't know, like money is worldly
and spirituality is not worldly,
which I know that's not true. So this song is making me
curious. How do Quakers think about
money?
>> Miche McCall (02:06):
Yeah, it's. It's easy to see money as a separate sphere,
but Quakers are known for
their intentional approaches to almost
everything, and I sure hope our financial
practices are no exception.
>> Peterson Toscano (02:19):
Well, then, let's do this in my
dreams.
>> Miche McCall (02:23):
I have a plan to
interview Joanne.
>> Peterson Toscano (02:28):
Go for it.
>> Miche McCall (02:30):
To answer some of our questions about how Quaker
meetings steward our resources, I spoke with
Joanne Neuroth, a member of Red Cedar Meeting in
Lansing, Michigan. Her article,
Putting Our Money Where Our Hearts Are, explores
how Red Cedar shifted its financial priorities
to work towards racial justice.
Joanne's article appears in the January
(02:52):
2025 issue of Friends Journal.
>> Speaker C (02:55):
As a predominantly white meeting, we have really
stepped away from sort of helplessness.
We don't know what it would take to get us to racial
justice in some large, abstract
sense. But we do know specific steps
that feel right to all of us to do, aim, uh,
toward justice and take some steps.
>> Peterson Toscano (03:15):
Quaker meetings have long engaged in thoughtful
practices around money. Traditionally, these uh,
practices revolved around the careful management
of resources and serving the needs of the
meeting. But today, many Quaker
meetings are asking, how can our financial
decisions address injustice?
>> Speaker C (03:35):
Our finance committee was the first to offer a way to use
our money in service to our
testimonies when they proposed that we
move our long term maintenance fund to
black owned Liberty bank in Detroit.
The committee members read Mersa Bharadaran's
the Color of Money, which explores the
history of black financial institutions and
(03:58):
the structural reasons that have caused many to
fail.
>> Miche McCall (04:02):
The decision to bank with Liberty wasn't just about
supporting a specific institution. It was a
statement about our broader financial
systems. While depositing funds in black
owned banks can help circulate capital within
their communities, Redcedar didn't see their
work stopping there.
>> Speaker C (04:21):
We were mightily gifted with the opening that has
flowered into our second financial witness.
Annual payments that actually do transfer
some wealth from our predominantly white meaning
to local people of color as
reparations for generations of racialized
harm. This one more than
the, uh, banking, it's actually
(04:43):
costing us. We're taking part of our resources and
saying, they aren't ours, they belong there. We're going to give them
back where they belong, but it hasn't
hurt us yet.
>> Peterson Toscano (04:53):
Redcedar didn't come to these payments without
wrestling with questions like, what do
reparations actually mean?
>> Speaker C (05:01):
There were years of trying to get people to understand
what reparations involved. You know, we haven't been
in any really tight financial pinches
where we think, ooh, I don't know if we can afford to keep doing
this reparations thing or if that was just kind of a
luxury. So we still have
bumps, I'm sure coming. One of Red
Cedar's college students had come home for
(05:23):
Christmas and observed to her dad that
tiny pantries modeled after tiny
free libraries were beginning to show up around
town where people could leave food for others
to take what they needed, no questions asked.
Why, she asked, couldn't Red Cedar do the same?
>> Miche McCall (05:41):
The tiny pantry, uh, started with a few members
bringing in extra groceries to their meeting house.
But quickly, uh, Red Cedar noticed the level of
need in their community.
>> Speaker C (05:51):
It just kind of grew. And we found out that
it takes about 25 to $30 a
day to put it in the pantry. And we
were doing okay with that. But
then he added it up and
we realized that 25 to $30 a
day of 365 days a year
(06:11):
is $11,000.
We said, whoa. If
somebody had uh, come to us and said,
let's start an $11,000 project
to put food out there, we would have said, are you
nuts? Our whole budget is $80,000. We
don't have 11,000 more to give to
(06:31):
this. It just kind of one can of
soup at a time. It grew until
we are in fact sustaining
$11,000 a year.
>> Peterson Toscano (06:42):
The tiny pantry turned into a true loaves
and fishes story where a small amount of
food miraculously multiplies to feed
a large crowd.
>> Speaker C (06:53):
What I hope these stories inspire people to say
is you do have a lot of learning to do. There's nothing
wrong with taking your time to learn. But eventually
it's time to stop learning from others experience
and step into this. Start
bumbling your way toward your
understanding of truth, even if you make mistakes along the
(07:13):
way. We didn't know where we were going with
any of these, but by following
faithfully sort of the one next step that was
apparent to us, we have figured stuff out
and it's possible to do that.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:25):
Red Cedar Meeting's tiny pantry is a testament
to small steps.
>> Speaker C (07:30):
If you're looking for a uh, one big fix
answer which white supremacy culture teaches us
we should all have like uh, get the right thing and then get behind
it and implement it. We are going to feel hand
wringy, but we don't have to.
>> Miche McCall (07:44):
Whether it's how we earn our money or how we spend
it, our financial resources have the
potential to reflect our deepest values.
Not just to meet our own needs, but to contribute to
the well being uh, of our communities and the
planet.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:59):
It's about more than just paying the bills. It's
about aligning our actions with our beliefs.
That was Joanne Neuroth, author of the article
Putting our Money where Our Hearts Are. It appears in the
January 2025 issue of Friends Journal.
You can also read it@friendsjournal.org
we live.
>> Speaker D (08:19):
In a, in this sort of structure of never ending growth
and um, consumption and production and that it's always better to produce
more, to consume more. Even if, like me, you come from a rich
country, you will see the extent to which
economics sort of now infiltrates every area of your life.
My name is Alicia Mendonza Richards. I'm from
Welland Garden City Poker Meeting, which is in
(08:40):
Hertfordshire, just outside London. So whenever
there are these attempts to try and think about
alternative ways to live or to create an economic system that is
less destructive and more just, there's very often this response
of that's impossible, that's just not true. We
can look at the earth around us and we can look at how nature sustains itself
and we can see that a system of
never ending growth on a limited planet, a, uh, system that
(09:03):
doesn't allow for reciprocity and, you know, a sustainable way of
life just can't be the best way to live. But we can also see
it because human beings have for millennia lived in
different types of social structures and they haven't always organized in a
capitalist system. And we are here as humans.
We've always relied on forms of knowledge that are not only rational
and empirical. One of those forms of knowledge is
(09:23):
spiritual knowledge and I would say mystical knowledge and knowledge
of what we know to be true. When we tap into that guidance, when we
listen to that still small voice within us, we know
what we need to do. We know what is true, we know what is good, we know what is
wrong. When we take the right action, things will unfold from
there. So we are able to be courageous and imagine
new ways of life without necessarily being able to
(09:44):
explain exactly how things are going to pan
out. So when we make economic arguments and people say, well,
no one's done that, so you can't prove it's going to work. When
we know something to be true mystically and we take
courageous action in truth, we are able to do that in faith.
So using mystical knowledge is about
really taking the time to tune into your relationship with the
(10:04):
truth of the reality in which you live and then listening
to how that guides you in your life and what it
teaches you.
>> Miche McCall (10:10):
That was Alicia Mendoza Richards in an
excerpt from the quakerspeak video titled
How Quakers Can Rethink the Economy.
You will find this Quakerspeak video and the Quakerspeak
channel on YouTube or visit
Quakerspeak.
>> Peterson Toscano (10:27):
Now it's time for our Friends Journal book
review. This month we're looking at a timely
and deeply reflective book, Brian
McLaren's Life After Wisdom
and Courage for a World Falling Apart.
Pamela Haynes reviews it in the January
2025 issue of Friends Journal.
Pamela Haynes highlights McLaren's unique
(10:49):
perspective as a minister addressing big questions
that religious and economic fundamentalism often
ignore. Let's hear directly from Brian
McLaren as he shares his insights and reflections
on some of the themes in his book. The following audio
comes from Climate Changed. It's a, uh, podcast
by the BTS center and we're grateful to the BTS
(11:09):
center for allowing us to share this with you.
>> Brian McLaren (11:12):
The doom in the book is
not the end of the world. The doom
is the feeling many of us feel now and have been
feeling some time. The institutions we've
trusted to get us this far do not seem
capable to get us where we need to go. Hope is when
you see a way to reach your goal and you have the
will to get there. It's willpower and way power.
(11:34):
We could say in the book. What I try to do
is to say we are in a
complex situation and the feeling
of doom is unavoidable for those
of us with our eyes open. I try to
explain what people are often calling our multi
crisis or polycrisis and then I try to
offer four scenarios of how things
(11:57):
might turn out for us. We know we have a
problem in how we live with the planet. Climate
change is a super obvious and urgent
expression of that, but there are so many
expressions of it are not living with the
planet in a way that is sustainable. Our
political systems are not
equipped to help us deal with a problem of
(12:19):
this magnitude. Our, uh, political systems are more
polarized than they've ever been and there is this
pull toward authoritarianism. And the
authoritarians are people who instead of using
authority to help us face reality, they
gain power by helping people deny
reality and shift the blame. Our
economic system doesn't know how to stop doing
(12:41):
what it's doing, and what it's doing is destroying the planet.
And our economic system keeps giving more money and
power to a tiny group of super, super, super
rich people who use that money to
buy media and buy political influence to keep their
interests first and foremost. Finally,
right when we might hope that our religious
(13:02):
communities would give us some sanity and wisdom,
very often they're either part of the
problem, sucked into the vortex of
polarization and so on, or they're actually
aiding and abetting the worst elements of our situation.
So when you put all those together, that's
when you realize, gosh, uh,
(13:22):
just glibly saying everything will be fine
does not feel like being upbeat. It feels like being in
denial.
>> Peterson Toscano (13:29):
You can hear more of Brian McLaren on the
BTS Center's podcast Climate Changed.
Visit climate
changedpodcast.org
and you can read Pamela Haines full review of Brian
McLaren's book Life After
Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart.
It appears in the January 2025 issue of
(13:50):
Friends Journal. Or, uh, just visit
friendsjournal.org for this review
and more.
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Quakers
today. Season 4 of Quakers today is sponsored by
American Friends Service Committee. Vulnerable
communities in the planet are counting on Quakers and others to
take action for a more just, sustainable and peaceful
(14:11):
world. The American Friends Service Committee, or
afsc, works at the forefront of
many social change movements to meet urgent
humanitarian needs, challenge injustice,
and build peace. Find out more about how you can
get involved in their programs to protect migrant communities,
establish an enduring peace in Palestine,
demilitarize police forces around the world,
(14:32):
assert the right to food for all, and
more@afsc.org
that's afsc.org
this season is.
>> Miche McCall (14:43):
Also brought to you by friends Fiduciary. Since
1898, friends Fiduciary has
provided values aligned investment services
for fellow Quaker organizations. Friends
Fiduciary consistently achieves strong
financial returns while witnessing to Quaker
testimonies. They also help
individuals support organizations they hold dear
(15:05):
through strategies including, uh, donor advised
funds, charitable gift annuities, and stock
gifts. Learn more about
FFC's services@ah
friends fiduciary.org.
>> Peterson Toscano (15:20):
To see our show notes and a, uh, full transcript
of this episode, visit
QuakersToday.org and if you
stick around after the closing, you will hear listeners
responses to the question what are some unexpected
ways you find yourself drawn to repair?
>> Miche McCall (15:36):
Thank you friend for listening.
>> Peterson Toscano (15:43):
In a moment you will hear listeners voicemails
about some unexpected ways they
find themselves drawn to repair.
>> Miche McCall (15:50):
But first I will share next month's question with you.
Here's the question. What is your relationship with
nature like? What is your relationship with nature
like?
>> Peterson Toscano (16:00):
I uh, love this question because I had a major shift
in my relationship with nature about a year ago.
>> Miche McCall (16:06):
Mhm.
>> Peterson Toscano (16:07):
I was in some like online whatever
and they had us draw this diagram of
ourselves at the very center
was like me in concentric circles going out
other parts of me like family and community.
I thought to myself, if I lived in a different culture
that wasn't so individually centered,
(16:27):
what could be at the center besides me?
And then I wondered what if nature was like the very
core of who I am? That
I am nature
not connected to nature? Or I'm a uh, part of nature or
I long to be a part of nature. But I am nature. And it's true. I
mean we're natural beings and we house
(16:47):
millions of organisms in our bodies that
assist us. I mean we are a giant walking colony of all
kinds of things. And just that shift in language,
instead of saying I'm natural, I'm um, a, you know, I'm m
connected to nature. I am
nature. What changes for me? That is one
shift that I have of seeing myself as
nature.
>> Miche McCall (17:08):
Yeah, and you host all sorts of critters in your
home as Well, I think you just saw a
mouse.
>> Peterson Toscano (17:14):
I did. Should have
heard me shriek. We didn't. We weren't recording at that
moment.
>> Miche McCall (17:23):
Yeah. Uh, for me, this question holds
so much. My. I think my entire
spiritual life has been built on
finding awe while outside.
Many of the times when I was small, those, uh,
experiences were really happened. Seeing
deer while hiking or
(17:45):
seeing the waves of ocean while I was at the
beach, those are the places where I really
saw God. Um, and even as
I changed faiths and lost
my faith and came back to it, that awe. Ah.
Of how beautiful the world is never left
me.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:04):
Yeah. And you live in New York City,
which is a place that actually has
an extraordinary amount of nature for a
city. I, uh, lived in New York for 10 years, and
although I grew up in the rural part of New
York State, it was actually in Central
park that I spent a lot of time
in nature and helped me kind of reconnect
(18:25):
with the natural world.
>> Miche McCall (18:28):
Absolutely. Before I moved here, I thought
nature had to be something untouched by
humans. So my
definition of nature was very specific.
Even though, as we can learn,
most of this planet is not untouched by us.
And so coming to New York City and realizing every
single part of this city is
(18:50):
touched, but there is still that nature
here was a really important shift of
learning how to be outside. So,
listener, what is your relationship with nature like?
>> Peterson Toscano (19:01):
Leave a voice memo with your name and the town
where you live. Just call us at the
following 317 Quakers. That's
317-782-537-7317
Quakers plus one. If, uh, calling from outside
the USA, you can also send
(19:21):
an email
podcastriendsjournal.org
or comment on our social media page.
We have all of these contact details in our show
notes
over@quakerstoday.org
and now we hear your answers to the question, what are
some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to
repair now? Miche, this time we did
(19:44):
not receive a single
voicemail answering this question.
I, uh, don't know, maybe it's intimidating, but you
have received a bunch of responses personally.
>> Miche McCall (19:55):
Yes. Instagram was all the
rage this month and we have a few
responses. Leena
wrote, nothing brings me, uh, more joy than
fixing things. I feel like we have such a weird,
disconnected relationship with the physical objects in
our lives. Like everything is
disposable and fixing things makes me
(20:17):
feel like I'm fighting that culture a little bit and
caring for something that's cared for me. And
I also feel like a badass when I figure out how to fix
something
Aaron wrote. I'm drawn to wanting to fix
broken things on the car when I think I can figure out how
to do it. Refilling the AC, changing a windshield
wiper, etc.
>> Peterson Toscano (20:38):
Way to go, Aaron. I struggle to just put petrol
in the tank.
>> Miche McCall (20:42):
Petrol.
>> Peterson Toscano (20:43):
Petrol. It's weird that we call it gas, right? Because it's
actually a liquid.
>> Miche McCall (20:47):
It's a liquid. It's true. Maggie
wrote. Sustainability and autonomy. I love
repair. I love the right to repair,
Cali wrote. I like to try and
repair men personally.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:01):
Good luck.
>> Miche McCall (21:07):
That's to you, Callie
and Micah Nicholson, uh, wrote, I've
yet to darn socks, but I love getting to the clothes that have
tears or rips after they've sat on the injured
reserve bench for a time. Makes me appreciate the
pieces I love all the more.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:24):
Wow, these are great answers. Yeah. What great responses.
Many thanks to everyone who answered this question
and I'm definitely curious to hear your thoughts about nature.
What is your relationship with
nature like?
>> Miche McCall (21:37):
Be brave and leave us a voicemail at
317-Quakers or comment
on our social media pages. You can even email us
podcastriendsjournal.org thanks
friends.