December 17, 2024 • 28 mins
Co-hosts Peterson Toscano (he/him) and Miche McCall (they/them) explore concepts of spiritual optimism and pessimism while navigating turbulent times. The episode features Adrian Glamorgan, who suggests Quakers can stay grounded and act faithfully during difficult times by embracing devotion. Additionally, we highlight the life of Minerva Hoyt, a pioneering conservationist who played a pivotal role in establishing Joshua Tree National Park.
Optimism and Pessimism: A Quaker elder shares lessons for staying steady in turmoil.
Miche chats with Adrian Glamorgan, a longtime activist who, before becoming a Quaker, powered his work through anger. He provides insights for young activists who face growing challenges. How do we stay strong and steady in the face of human cruelty and violence?
Glamorgan also talks about the Quaker concept of "New Creation," a vision of the world marked by human potential for good, cooperation, peace, and interconnectedness with the environment. While achieving New Creation might take time, it can serve as a compass, guiding Quakers toward a better future. He shares how, even in the nuts and bolts of serving on a committee or task force, we can find meaningful connections.
Adrian Glamorgan wrote the article “The Devoted Path: Holding Fast to the Promise of New Creation.” It appears in the December 2024 issue of Friends Journal and at FriendsJournal.org.
Adrian Glamorgan is a member of Western Australian Regional Meeting and Fremantle Recognised Meeting. He serves as the executive secretary of the Asia-West Pacific Section of Friends World Committee for Consultation, supporting the Section's diverse yearly meetings, groups, fellowships, and communities of interest, such as Quaker learning, peace, climate, and language inclusion.
The Quaker Simplicity of Talking to God
Pradip Lamichhane from Bhaktapur Evangelical Friends Church in Nepal emphasizes that Quakers don't need elaborate rituals or intermediaries to connect with the divine. Talking to God can be as simple as expressing gratitude, a practice of thanking God upon waking up and before sleeping. George Fox's teaches that God resides within, Pradip encourages us to look inward for peace and blessings.
You will find the full video featuring Pradip Lamichhane and other QuakerSpeak videos at the QuakerSpeak YouTube channel, or visit Quakerspeak.com.
Book Review
Cactus Queen: Minerva Hoyt Establishes Joshua Tree National Park, written by Lori Alexander and illustrated by Jenn Ely.
Cactus Queen tells the story of Minerva Hoyt, a pioneering conservationist who played a crucial role in protecting the Mojave Desert's unique ecosystem; her efforts in 1936 led to the preservation of over 825,000 acres of desert. The book provides supplemental information about Minerva Hoyt's life, the various plants and animals of Joshua Tree National Park, and guidance for young environmental activists. Desert Cactus is recommended for readers aged 7 to 10 and is available as a hardcover or an eBook. Read Tom and Sandy Farley’s Friends Journal review.
Read more Friends Journal book reviews.
Quotes
- “If someone's got a passion for ballet, F1, or being a horticulturist, a teacher, or an accountant, follow your passion. Bett
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Miche McCall (00:07):
In this episode of Quakers Today, we consider
optimism and pessimism amid
turmoil.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:14):
We reflect on the power of silence.
>> Miche McCall (00:17):
And you will learn a little about Joshua
Tree national park and the woman who helped
protect over 825,000
acres of the desert.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:28):
Hi, I'm Peterson Toscano.
>> Miche McCall (00:29):
And I am Miche McCall.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:32):
This is season four, episode one of
the Quakers Today podcast, a, project of
Friends Publishing Corporation. This season
of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American
Friends Service Committee and Friends
Fiduciary.
Hey, Miche, welcome back. Welcome
(00:54):
back, listeners. We haven't done this since September, and
I am aware that a lot has
happened since September
2024. Let's recap.
>> Miche McCall (01:03):
Oh, gosh, yes. It was
75 degrees on Halloween and this
year's UN climate talks imploded
and there was US election.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:15):
Oh, right.
>> Speaker C (01:16):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (01:16):
Half the country is thrilled and the other half is
terrified.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:20):
Transgender rights are being debated at the
Supreme Court, and the US Is still going
ahead with a ban on TikTok, which creates an
existential crisis about the
election.
>> Miche McCall (01:32):
My first presidential election was in
2016. I was 19 years
old, and all three times, Donald Trump
has been the Republican candidate. Many, but not
all, Quakers today are alarmed,
concerned and unclear about
where to go from here.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:50):
What about you, Miche? How are you feeling about all of
this?
>> Miche McCall (01:53):
I oscillate between
despair that we've passed the
tipping point of destroying ourselves and taking
all of creation down with us,
and the potentially vain hope that
it's always darkest before the dawn and we're going
to pull through. How are you feeling, Peterson?
>> Peterson Toscano (02:13):
I feel overwhelmed. I have a
big imagination, so I'm imagining how bad things
can happen in the USA and the rest of the world
regarding democracy, human rights and
climate. I'm also overwhelmed by
Friends who are in full
blown panic mode, especially on social media.
And I totally understand their feelings, but, uh,
(02:36):
it doesn't help me to doom scroll and take in
so much hopelessness.
>> Miche McCall (02:40):
Yeah, and people are looking for answers and
direction. I'm leaning into my Quaker
community. Quakers, especially our
Elders, have deep wisdom,
experience and perspective that might offer me
an understanding of how to move forward.
>> Peterson Toscano (02:57):
And you recently spoke with one of our Quaker
Elders?
>> Miche McCall (03:00):
I did. Adrian Glamorgan.
He's the Executive Secretary of Friends
World Committee for Consultation for the
Asia West Pacific section. His article,
the devoted Holding Fast to the
Promise of New Creation, explores the
topic of, uh, optimism and pessimism. It
(03:20):
appears in the December 2024 issue of
Friends Journal.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (03:25):
By temperament, I'm naturally optimistic
about what humanity can ultimately achieve.
And yet ever Watchful, I tilt toward the
heavily pessimistic when I consider where we are
heading. This native combination has
given me the energy to work for change, usually
without being overwhelmed by what looms
(03:46):
ahead. This feels a lighter burden than if I dared
to fully grasp the destruction that manifests
around us now, for example, in our
climate. I can't dally too long to
imagine what the next years of heat and fire and flood
will be like, nor consider too many details
of a limited nuclear war leading to
(04:06):
a global catastrophe, nor contemplate
the meaninglessness that artificial
intelligence may scramble out of our human
capacity to create. These threats are
real and generally destructive,
but they cannot occupy and decimate my inner
compassion or willingness to engage.
I keep these threats outside the inner
(04:28):
calm, or they will burn away my capacity
to love and to act. Not
everyone is naturally disposed this way. They, uh, may
feel the pain more fully when they watch the news
or see where things are heading. We need people with
such a range of compassion and empathy. But
sometimes grasping the fuller realities of the planet's
(04:48):
existential threats can lead to
despondency or to a protective
withdrawal from harsh realities. We can
consider other spiritually empowering
alternatives, finding ways intrinsic to
being a, uh, Quaker.
>> Miche McCall (05:03):
Adrian has been a kindergarten teacher, a college
professor, a union organizer, and had
his own radio program. But most of his experience in
the world is in environmental and peace movements
and activism. But his approach to this work changed
after he became a Quaker.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (05:20):
Before I was a Quaker, I, uh, was quite active in
a lot of social change.
After I hadn't seen a friend of mine in the social
change movement, in the peace movement, they got really cross with
me. Adrian, you've changed. You used
to be so angry. Uh, I knew exactly
what she meant because anger around injustice
(05:42):
is a fuel that can burn for a long time,
but it goes off in all directions. Anger, uh, and it
doesn't connect with people. In fact, it disconnects
people.
>> Miche McCall (05:54):
Early Quakers envisioned a new creation
marked by human perfectibility, love
and integrity, free from sin, but faced
resistance as most people clung to the old
creation.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (06:08):
What it is inside of us, I think,
is a picture of the world
as we wish it to be. Quakers
have insights about how to bring ourselves
closer to that. So we may not arrive at it, but it's
a compass point. We have a duty now to learn the
skills of stepping back into
interdependence with consciousness, to co
(06:30):
create in ways that, uh, are, ah, meaningful
and worthy of who we are. It
involves us learning to respect
life and rejoice and find awe and
wonder in it, as well as being productive and
feeding people and giving the capacity to
have meaningful lives.
>> Peterson Toscano (06:54):
Adrian points out that extremes
do not help us honestly face
challenges.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (07:00):
Excessive optimism is not being honest,
and excessive pessimism isn't being honest. There's no
integrity to that. When you see the word integrity,
integrate. Integrate what you know is
happening in the world and what can be done about it.
Integrate your spiritual experience and
work from that place, and then you can trust and
(07:21):
have faith. It doesn't rely on your ego to move
the world. All you have to do is your part in
it.
>> Miche McCall (07:28):
For Adrian, our job is to embrace our
leadings. Leaning into faithfulness
is the solution.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (07:35):
Someone's got a passion for ballet or
F1, or for being a
horticulturalist or a teacher or, um,
an accountant. Follow your passion.
Better still, follow your leading as it
arises, because that will be part of the
solution. That may not look like
being at the front line, being at the barricades.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:56):
In his article, Adrian writes about
devotion. In my earlier days at
evangelical churches, devotion for me was
about daily prayer times and Bible reading.
Adrian helps expand my understanding.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (08:11):
Devotion, though, uh, I don't think people step into
devotion. It sounds far too pious to me.
You know, like, uh, excuse me, I'm just about to be
devoted. It doesn't work that way
for most of us. I think what happens is you
start doing something because it's right to do it, and then
you can't stop doing it, and it feels right
(08:31):
to do it. Everything works so that you can do
it, and you keep doing it. And then people say, uh, they
notice. They say, you're doing that. You know that
you can't quite stop. You know that people draw strength from it.
You keep doing, and you have long days and nights,
and you say, why am I doing this? It's taking far too long, but you can't
not do it. Guess what? You've arrived at devotion.
>> Peterson Toscano (08:53):
As Quakers, we have a truly
countercultural practice. Sitting in
silence together.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (09:00):
I've got a feeling that the idea of sitting
quietly resets us, uh,
neurologically. I'm not advocating Quaker
for health purposes, but actually it's quite healthy to do it
because your state of being in fight, flight, freeze,
or thorn slowly releases.
When you give yourself enough time, you can de
(09:20):
Traumatize through sitting quietly.
>> Miche McCall (09:24):
Another feature of Quaker meetings is the role of
committees. Even if you're not a Quaker, you
might be on a committee or task Force. Adrienne
gave me a fresh perspective about the purpose of being
in one of these subgroups.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (09:38):
And in your committees. Oh my goodness. Committees. Because
they can be minor circles of
uncomfortability. I won't say help. We
need to think of our committees in two ways. One,
as a place where people commit. Committees
has intrinsically in the word commit, so
whatever committee you're on, commit to it. And the other
one is strive for fellowship and spiritual
(10:01):
experience above doing things.
Because you can make great busyness but not
much spirit, and it drives people away.
>> Miche McCall (10:10):
Adrienne provides a vision of how we can
navigate through our current time of multiple
crises.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (10:17):
We can hold fast to the new creation
without being mesmerised by the ocean of
darkness. We can discern, um,
to avoid having either optimism or pessimism
pull us away from our true calling.
We can be strengthened by gratitude, especially
when we consider others in our Quaker community
(10:38):
and the way the Spirit has held us in the past.
And we can come to understand the power of
devotion when it settles in us. And, um,
gives us the strength to persevere.
>> Peterson Toscano (10:51):
That was Adrian Glamorgan, the executive
secretary of Friends World Committee for
Consultation for the Asia West Pacific
section.
>> Miche McCall (11:00):
His article the devoted Holding
Fast to the Promise of New Creation
appears in the December 2024 issue of
Friends Journal. You can also read
it@friendsjournal.org
I am.
>> Speaker C (11:14):
Um, Mr. Pradeep Lamisane from
Nepal. So I go to Vaktapur
Evangelical Friendships in Nepal.
Silence is a power of many things.
Like silence will restart the
joy, the silence will start
the love. That's why I like
silence. And I am continually
(11:36):
trying to get connected with the Friends around the
world so I can participate and
engage and contribute whatever I
can. I have experienced
poverty, I've experienced
difficulties, I've experienced
conflict. During
this period of years, God helped
(11:59):
me to go through all of these
difficulties. Poverty, sorrow, pain,
travels, starvations.
That's all given by God. That's
what we say in evangelical way.
Now, if you follow the all door will be
open, all the wisdom will be poured to you,
(12:19):
and all the circumstances will be clear.
That's what I believe. So every morning I wake up,
I say, thank you, God, that's all before
going to bed. Oh, God, thank you very much. How lovely you
are. Uh, many people think they have to do
lots of things to talk to God. You know, you don't have to do
anything. You just live with the God.
(12:39):
But saying that you need community, you know,
so community help you to
guide you, to connect the God.
Sometimes people say, why should I go to the church? Why should I go
to the, uh, meeting? It's all old people are there.
The young people says they are not speaking
what we need. They are speaking world
(13:00):
traditions, world culture. The French church and
friend community started from this
problem. Actually, during that time,
everybody is complaining. What? They are complaining. They
are complaining. Pastor is not good, they are complaining.
Church is not good, they are complaining. Meeting is not good, they
are complaining. Sitting chair is not
good. George Fuck Said. You
(13:22):
can directly talk with the
God and your problem will be solved.
You don't need to go
and complain. But that of
God is inside of you. Then why do you
complain to others? Because that is inside of you.
If you complain, you complain for yourself. Because the problem
(13:43):
is not outside. The problem is inside.
You don't need to go outside. You
ask inside and you will get
peace. You will be blessed
and then Friends will join
you. They will feel
that of God in you and they will
also bless. The blessing
(14:05):
is like that. You give blessing and you
pass the blessing. That's how it should work.
Give and pass. In other culture of religions,
there is a lots of things you have to do. You have to wake up early morning. You go to
bath on the cold waters. And there are lots of materials you have to
prepare, you know, to worship. And for us
just say thank you God. How are you
(14:25):
doing? How is
he? It's okay.
I go with a simplex.
God is love. God is full of
mercy. God will be there
always for you. But you need M to
talk with him.
>> Miche McCall (14:44):
That was an Excerpt from the QuakerSpeak video,
the Quaker simplicity of talking to
God. You can find this video and the Quakerspeak
channel on YouTube or visit
Quakerspeak.com.
>> Peterson Toscano (14:57):
It'S time for our Friends Journal Book
Review. We're excited to share a fascinating
biography for young readers. Tom and
Sandy Farley reviewed the Book Cactus Queen
Minerva Hoyt Establishes Joshua
Tree National Park. It was written by Laurie
Alexander and illustrated by Jen Ely.
Tom and Sandy highlight why this biography
(15:20):
was overdue. As environmentally conscious
Californians who frequent Joshua Tree national park,
they had never heard of Minerva Hoyt.
In 1936, her work helped protect
over 825,000
acres of the desert. This Book
captures her journey from Nature
enthusiast to pioneering conservationist
(15:43):
who used her artistic and political
savvy to preserve the Mojave Desert's
unique ecosystem. The Farleys praise Jen
Ely's vibrant illustrations which bring the
beauty and challenges of the desert to life.
They also commend the supplemental materials at the end of the
Book. These include notes on, um, Minerva's life, the
(16:03):
park's flora and fauna and even tips for
budding environmental activists. Cactus Queen
is a meaningful read for ages 7 to
10 and it's available as a hardcover or
ebook. To read the full review by Tom
and Sandy Farley, visit Friends journal
online@friendsjournal.org
(16:25):
thank you for joining us for this episode of
Quakers Today. Quakers Today is written and
produced by.
>> Miche McCall (16:31):
Me, Peterson Cintiscano and me Miche
McCall.
Music on uh, today's show comes from Epidemic
Sound Season 4 of Quakers Today.
>> Peterson Toscano (16:40):
Is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary. Since
1898, Friends Fiduciary has
provided values aligned investment
services for fellow Quaker
organizations. Friends Fiduciary
consistently achieves strong financial
returns while witnessing to Quaker
testimonies. They also help individuals
(17:01):
support organizations they hold dear through
giving strategies including donor advised
funds, charitable gift annuities, and
stock gifts. Learn more about
FFC's
services@friendsfiduciary.org this
season.
>> Miche McCall (17:18):
Is also brought to you by American Friends
Service Committee Vulnerable communities and the
planet are counting on Quakers to take
action for a more just, sustainable and
peaceful world. The American Friends Service Committee,
or afsc, works at the
forefront of many social change movements
(17:38):
to meet urgent humanitarian needs.
Find out more about how you can get involved in their
programs to protect migrant communities,
establish an enduring peace in Palestine,
demilitarize police forces around the world,
assert the right to food for all, and more. Visit
afsc.org
Visit QuakersToday.org to see our.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:00):
Uh, show notes and a full transcript of this
episode. And if you stick around after the closing you will
hear listeners responses to the question what
novel, film or television series changed
your relationship with the world?
>> Miche McCall (18:13):
This concludes our episode of Quakers Today,
reflecting on staying steady in turbulent
times.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:20):
Thank you for joining us and may you find
moments of stillness and clarity.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (18:34):
Mhm
(18:55):
mhm
(19:16):
mhm
(19:37):
mhm.
>> Miche McCall (20:08):
In a moment you will hear listeners voicemail
responses to the question what
novel, film or television series
changed your relationship with the world?
>> Peterson Toscano (20:18):
But first we have a practical question
for you about this podcast. On um,
our Instagram account, Claudia wrote the
A little feedback on the audio of the podcast.
The background music is too loud and almost
like a duet with the speaker. It is
distracting. I have to really focus on the
(20:40):
speakers. It is annoying so I will take
several breaks to get through it. I really do
appreciate the efforts that it takes to bring a podcast
of this magnitude to us.
>> Miche McCall (20:51):
Thank you Claudia for this feedback. Who else
is having this experience? We want to make sure that the show
is clear and easy for everyone to hear.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:00):
Please let us know by commenting on our social
media we have, uh, TikTok
for as long as it lasts. I don't know,
Instagram and X. And I guess we're
considering going to Blue Sky. I
mean, I can't keep up.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (21:15):
Uh, I'm sorry.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:16):
I'm feeling like I looked at Blue Sky. It's
probably going to happen. You can also email us
podcastriendsjournal.org or call
our listener voicemail line
317quakers. We'll have
all of these details in our show notes. If
this is a problem that can be fixed, we will repair
it.
(21:36):
Oh, and speaking of repair,
Miche, you have a new monthly question for
us.
>> Miche McCall (21:42):
I do. What are some unexpected
ways you find yourself drawn to repair? What
are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn
to repair? I became a Quaker
through a service year program named Quaker Voluntary
Service. And during that time, I learned
about other service years, including a Jewish
(22:03):
service year called Repair the World. My
first thought was, wow, that's kind of a
bold claim.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (22:09):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (22:10):
That we can just repair the world. Repair the World in
Hebrew is tikkun olam. It's a
belief that we have a responsibility to
contribute to the betterment of the world.
It's not just a theoretical concept,
but it's a living tradition that inspires action
to make the world a better place. And during a service year, you
(22:30):
don't have a whole lot of money to buy
things. M In a world that often
prioritizes the new. I learned
how to fix my bike, darn my socks, and
even repair friendships.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:43):
Oh, uh, I like the term darn my socks. I've not heard
this in a long time.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (22:48):
It sounds like something out of a.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:50):
Christmas song or something.
>> Miche McCall (22:52):
It was a big hobby of my city
court coordinator was darning her socks.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:58):
Did you first say when you saw the hold, you're like, darn my
socks. Then you darned
them?
>> Miche McCall (23:08):
Exactly.
>> Peterson Toscano (23:10):
That's how it works.
So we're talking about repairing all kinds of things.
Physical things, but also potentially emotional things.
Friendships, relationships. Yeah, I get that.
>> Miche McCall (23:21):
Absolutely.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (23:21):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (23:22):
And we want to, uh. Yeah. Thinking of repair
holistically. That it's not just objects,
but the things that we do in the world.
And this month, listener, I'd like to hear from
you about repair. What are some
unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to
repair? How and when have you found
joy and meaning in mending things?
(23:43):
This could be anything from mending clothes
or addressing debt to
working towards restorative justice or repairing
damaged relationships. What are some unexpected
ways you find yourself drawn to repair? You can leave
a voice memo with your name and the town where you
live. The number to call is 317
Quakers. That's
(24:05):
317-782-537-7317.
Quakers plus one. If you're calling from
outside the USA, you can also send us an
email or comment on our
social media posts. I'll have these
contact details in our show notes
over@quakerstoday.org
(24:27):
now we hear answers.
>> Peterson Toscano (24:28):
To the question, what novel, film or
television series changed your relationship with
the world? And first we look to answers on social
media. On X, we hear from
the queer Quaker. Hey, queer Quaker.
Queerquaker writes, I'd have to say the
Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin.
It did an incredible job of fictionalizing the
(24:50):
conflicts of the world while providing hope for
a libertarian socialist future.
>> Miche McCall (24:56):
And on Instagram, Amagray
wrote the TV show Star the Next
Generation. Since I was a young kid up until
now, my reaction remains the same even when I
watch the reruns with themes that explore the
possibility of life on other planets.
Science, technology, God,
morality, our existence and what it
(25:18):
means to be human.
>> Peterson Toscano (25:19):
Elaine Emmy wrote Ray
Bradbury, especially Fahrenheit
451. And now we hear
voicemails from listeners who
answer this. What novel, film or
television series change your relationship with the
world?
>> Charlie Dominicki (25:37):
Sally Campbell from Morningside Meeting in New York
City. Raiding Sweet Grass by
Robin Wall Killerer. That series
of essays and um, stories gives
me great hope. And I do think if we go back
to the indigenous wisdom and um,
learn from. Just be open to the trees
and whatever, uh, the over story was
(26:00):
excellent too. All right, take care.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (26:02):
Bye bye.
>> Charlie Dominicki (26:04):
Hi, this is Linda from
Orcas island worship group in
Washington State. For me, it
was a particular scene in
To Kill a Mockingbird
when Gout showed up.
As Atticus was holding
vigil outside the jail,
(26:26):
Scout showed up, much to his
chagrin. As the
Klansmen came in their robes,
Scout happened to recognize
one of them, maybe it was by the shoes,
as a father of one of
her classmates. And she
(26:47):
started carrying on a conversation with
him about his child.
It totally diffused
an otherwise violent
situation. And to me
it was a prime example
of how reaching for
(27:07):
someone's humanity for that
bit of God within another person,
no matter how much we disagree with
their outward action, that
reaching for that bit of God or
humanity can diffuse
a, uh, possible violence, the
(27:27):
strength of love and care. Thank
you.
>> Peterson Toscano (27:33):
Thanks for your answers.
>> Miche McCall (27:34):
Thanks, listener. I'll see you next month.
In this episode of Quakers Today, we consider
optimism and pessimism amid
turmoil.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:14):
We reflect on the power of silence.
>> Miche McCall (00:17):
And you will learn a little about Joshua
Tree national park and the woman who helped
protect over 825,000
acres of the desert.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:28):
Hi, I'm Peterson Toscano.
>> Miche McCall (00:29):
And I am Miche McCall.
>> Peterson Toscano (00:32):
This is season four, episode one of
the Quakers Today podcast, a, project of
Friends Publishing Corporation. This season
of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American
Friends Service Committee and Friends
Fiduciary.
Hey, Miche, welcome back. Welcome
(00:54):
back, listeners. We haven't done this since September, and
I am aware that a lot has
happened since September
2024. Let's recap.
>> Miche McCall (01:03):
Oh, gosh, yes. It was
75 degrees on Halloween and this
year's UN climate talks imploded
and there was US election.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:15):
Oh, right.
>> Speaker C (01:16):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (01:16):
Half the country is thrilled and the other half is
terrified.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:20):
Transgender rights are being debated at the
Supreme Court, and the US Is still going
ahead with a ban on TikTok, which creates an
existential crisis about the
election.
>> Miche McCall (01:32):
My first presidential election was in
2016. I was 19 years
old, and all three times, Donald Trump
has been the Republican candidate. Many, but not
all, Quakers today are alarmed,
concerned and unclear about
where to go from here.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:50):
What about you, Miche? How are you feeling about all of
this?
>> Miche McCall (01:53):
I oscillate between
despair that we've passed the
tipping point of destroying ourselves and taking
all of creation down with us,
and the potentially vain hope that
it's always darkest before the dawn and we're going
to pull through. How are you feeling, Peterson?
>> Peterson Toscano (02:13):
I feel overwhelmed. I have a
big imagination, so I'm imagining how bad things
can happen in the USA and the rest of the world
regarding democracy, human rights and
climate. I'm also overwhelmed by
Friends who are in full
blown panic mode, especially on social media.
And I totally understand their feelings, but, uh,
(02:36):
it doesn't help me to doom scroll and take in
so much hopelessness.
>> Miche McCall (02:40):
Yeah, and people are looking for answers and
direction. I'm leaning into my Quaker
community. Quakers, especially our
Elders, have deep wisdom,
experience and perspective that might offer me
an understanding of how to move forward.
>> Peterson Toscano (02:57):
And you recently spoke with one of our Quaker
Elders?
>> Miche McCall (03:00):
I did. Adrian Glamorgan.
He's the Executive Secretary of Friends
World Committee for Consultation for the
Asia West Pacific section. His article,
the devoted Holding Fast to the
Promise of New Creation, explores the
topic of, uh, optimism and pessimism. It
(03:20):
appears in the December 2024 issue of
Friends Journal.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (03:25):
By temperament, I'm naturally optimistic
about what humanity can ultimately achieve.
And yet ever Watchful, I tilt toward the
heavily pessimistic when I consider where we are
heading. This native combination has
given me the energy to work for change, usually
without being overwhelmed by what looms
(03:46):
ahead. This feels a lighter burden than if I dared
to fully grasp the destruction that manifests
around us now, for example, in our
climate. I can't dally too long to
imagine what the next years of heat and fire and flood
will be like, nor consider too many details
of a limited nuclear war leading to
(04:06):
a global catastrophe, nor contemplate
the meaninglessness that artificial
intelligence may scramble out of our human
capacity to create. These threats are
real and generally destructive,
but they cannot occupy and decimate my inner
compassion or willingness to engage.
I keep these threats outside the inner
(04:28):
calm, or they will burn away my capacity
to love and to act. Not
everyone is naturally disposed this way. They, uh, may
feel the pain more fully when they watch the news
or see where things are heading. We need people with
such a range of compassion and empathy. But
sometimes grasping the fuller realities of the planet's
(04:48):
existential threats can lead to
despondency or to a protective
withdrawal from harsh realities. We can
consider other spiritually empowering
alternatives, finding ways intrinsic to
being a, uh, Quaker.
>> Miche McCall (05:03):
Adrian has been a kindergarten teacher, a college
professor, a union organizer, and had
his own radio program. But most of his experience in
the world is in environmental and peace movements
and activism. But his approach to this work changed
after he became a Quaker.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (05:20):
Before I was a Quaker, I, uh, was quite active in
a lot of social change.
After I hadn't seen a friend of mine in the social
change movement, in the peace movement, they got really cross with
me. Adrian, you've changed. You used
to be so angry. Uh, I knew exactly
what she meant because anger around injustice
(05:42):
is a fuel that can burn for a long time,
but it goes off in all directions. Anger, uh, and it
doesn't connect with people. In fact, it disconnects
people.
>> Miche McCall (05:54):
Early Quakers envisioned a new creation
marked by human perfectibility, love
and integrity, free from sin, but faced
resistance as most people clung to the old
creation.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (06:08):
What it is inside of us, I think,
is a picture of the world
as we wish it to be. Quakers
have insights about how to bring ourselves
closer to that. So we may not arrive at it, but it's
a compass point. We have a duty now to learn the
skills of stepping back into
interdependence with consciousness, to co
(06:30):
create in ways that, uh, are, ah, meaningful
and worthy of who we are. It
involves us learning to respect
life and rejoice and find awe and
wonder in it, as well as being productive and
feeding people and giving the capacity to
have meaningful lives.
>> Peterson Toscano (06:54):
Adrian points out that extremes
do not help us honestly face
challenges.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (07:00):
Excessive optimism is not being honest,
and excessive pessimism isn't being honest. There's no
integrity to that. When you see the word integrity,
integrate. Integrate what you know is
happening in the world and what can be done about it.
Integrate your spiritual experience and
work from that place, and then you can trust and
(07:21):
have faith. It doesn't rely on your ego to move
the world. All you have to do is your part in
it.
>> Miche McCall (07:28):
For Adrian, our job is to embrace our
leadings. Leaning into faithfulness
is the solution.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (07:35):
Someone's got a passion for ballet or
F1, or for being a
horticulturalist or a teacher or, um,
an accountant. Follow your passion.
Better still, follow your leading as it
arises, because that will be part of the
solution. That may not look like
being at the front line, being at the barricades.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:56):
In his article, Adrian writes about
devotion. In my earlier days at
evangelical churches, devotion for me was
about daily prayer times and Bible reading.
Adrian helps expand my understanding.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (08:11):
Devotion, though, uh, I don't think people step into
devotion. It sounds far too pious to me.
You know, like, uh, excuse me, I'm just about to be
devoted. It doesn't work that way
for most of us. I think what happens is you
start doing something because it's right to do it, and then
you can't stop doing it, and it feels right
(08:31):
to do it. Everything works so that you can do
it, and you keep doing it. And then people say, uh, they
notice. They say, you're doing that. You know that
you can't quite stop. You know that people draw strength from it.
You keep doing, and you have long days and nights,
and you say, why am I doing this? It's taking far too long, but you can't
not do it. Guess what? You've arrived at devotion.
>> Peterson Toscano (08:53):
As Quakers, we have a truly
countercultural practice. Sitting in
silence together.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (09:00):
I've got a feeling that the idea of sitting
quietly resets us, uh,
neurologically. I'm not advocating Quaker
for health purposes, but actually it's quite healthy to do it
because your state of being in fight, flight, freeze,
or thorn slowly releases.
When you give yourself enough time, you can de
(09:20):
Traumatize through sitting quietly.
>> Miche McCall (09:24):
Another feature of Quaker meetings is the role of
committees. Even if you're not a Quaker, you
might be on a committee or task Force. Adrienne
gave me a fresh perspective about the purpose of being
in one of these subgroups.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (09:38):
And in your committees. Oh my goodness. Committees. Because
they can be minor circles of
uncomfortability. I won't say help. We
need to think of our committees in two ways. One,
as a place where people commit. Committees
has intrinsically in the word commit, so
whatever committee you're on, commit to it. And the other
one is strive for fellowship and spiritual
(10:01):
experience above doing things.
Because you can make great busyness but not
much spirit, and it drives people away.
>> Miche McCall (10:10):
Adrienne provides a vision of how we can
navigate through our current time of multiple
crises.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (10:17):
We can hold fast to the new creation
without being mesmerised by the ocean of
darkness. We can discern, um,
to avoid having either optimism or pessimism
pull us away from our true calling.
We can be strengthened by gratitude, especially
when we consider others in our Quaker community
(10:38):
and the way the Spirit has held us in the past.
And we can come to understand the power of
devotion when it settles in us. And, um,
gives us the strength to persevere.
>> Peterson Toscano (10:51):
That was Adrian Glamorgan, the executive
secretary of Friends World Committee for
Consultation for the Asia West Pacific
section.
>> Miche McCall (11:00):
His article the devoted Holding
Fast to the Promise of New Creation
appears in the December 2024 issue of
Friends Journal. You can also read
it@friendsjournal.org
I am.
>> Speaker C (11:14):
Um, Mr. Pradeep Lamisane from
Nepal. So I go to Vaktapur
Evangelical Friendships in Nepal.
Silence is a power of many things.
Like silence will restart the
joy, the silence will start
the love. That's why I like
silence. And I am continually
(11:36):
trying to get connected with the Friends around the
world so I can participate and
engage and contribute whatever I
can. I have experienced
poverty, I've experienced
difficulties, I've experienced
conflict. During
this period of years, God helped
(11:59):
me to go through all of these
difficulties. Poverty, sorrow, pain,
travels, starvations.
That's all given by God. That's
what we say in evangelical way.
Now, if you follow the all door will be
open, all the wisdom will be poured to you,
(12:19):
and all the circumstances will be clear.
That's what I believe. So every morning I wake up,
I say, thank you, God, that's all before
going to bed. Oh, God, thank you very much. How lovely you
are. Uh, many people think they have to do
lots of things to talk to God. You know, you don't have to do
anything. You just live with the God.
(12:39):
But saying that you need community, you know,
so community help you to
guide you, to connect the God.
Sometimes people say, why should I go to the church? Why should I go
to the, uh, meeting? It's all old people are there.
The young people says they are not speaking
what we need. They are speaking world
(13:00):
traditions, world culture. The French church and
friend community started from this
problem. Actually, during that time,
everybody is complaining. What? They are complaining. They
are complaining. Pastor is not good, they are complaining.
Church is not good, they are complaining. Meeting is not good, they
are complaining. Sitting chair is not
good. George Fuck Said. You
(13:22):
can directly talk with the
God and your problem will be solved.
You don't need to go
and complain. But that of
God is inside of you. Then why do you
complain to others? Because that is inside of you.
If you complain, you complain for yourself. Because the problem
(13:43):
is not outside. The problem is inside.
You don't need to go outside. You
ask inside and you will get
peace. You will be blessed
and then Friends will join
you. They will feel
that of God in you and they will
also bless. The blessing
(14:05):
is like that. You give blessing and you
pass the blessing. That's how it should work.
Give and pass. In other culture of religions,
there is a lots of things you have to do. You have to wake up early morning. You go to
bath on the cold waters. And there are lots of materials you have to
prepare, you know, to worship. And for us
just say thank you God. How are you
(14:25):
doing? How is
he? It's okay.
I go with a simplex.
God is love. God is full of
mercy. God will be there
always for you. But you need M to
talk with him.
>> Miche McCall (14:44):
That was an Excerpt from the QuakerSpeak video,
the Quaker simplicity of talking to
God. You can find this video and the Quakerspeak
channel on YouTube or visit
Quakerspeak.com.
>> Peterson Toscano (14:57):
It'S time for our Friends Journal Book
Review. We're excited to share a fascinating
biography for young readers. Tom and
Sandy Farley reviewed the Book Cactus Queen
Minerva Hoyt Establishes Joshua
Tree National Park. It was written by Laurie
Alexander and illustrated by Jen Ely.
Tom and Sandy highlight why this biography
(15:20):
was overdue. As environmentally conscious
Californians who frequent Joshua Tree national park,
they had never heard of Minerva Hoyt.
In 1936, her work helped protect
over 825,000
acres of the desert. This Book
captures her journey from Nature
enthusiast to pioneering conservationist
(15:43):
who used her artistic and political
savvy to preserve the Mojave Desert's
unique ecosystem. The Farleys praise Jen
Ely's vibrant illustrations which bring the
beauty and challenges of the desert to life.
They also commend the supplemental materials at the end of the
Book. These include notes on, um, Minerva's life, the
(16:03):
park's flora and fauna and even tips for
budding environmental activists. Cactus Queen
is a meaningful read for ages 7 to
10 and it's available as a hardcover or
ebook. To read the full review by Tom
and Sandy Farley, visit Friends journal
online@friendsjournal.org
(16:25):
thank you for joining us for this episode of
Quakers Today. Quakers Today is written and
produced by.
>> Miche McCall (16:31):
Me, Peterson Cintiscano and me Miche
McCall.
Music on uh, today's show comes from Epidemic
Sound Season 4 of Quakers Today.
>> Peterson Toscano (16:40):
Is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary. Since
1898, Friends Fiduciary has
provided values aligned investment
services for fellow Quaker
organizations. Friends Fiduciary
consistently achieves strong financial
returns while witnessing to Quaker
testimonies. They also help individuals
(17:01):
support organizations they hold dear through
giving strategies including donor advised
funds, charitable gift annuities, and
stock gifts. Learn more about
FFC's
services@friendsfiduciary.org this
season.
>> Miche McCall (17:18):
Is also brought to you by American Friends
Service Committee Vulnerable communities and the
planet are counting on Quakers to take
action for a more just, sustainable and
peaceful world. The American Friends Service Committee,
or afsc, works at the
forefront of many social change movements
(17:38):
to meet urgent humanitarian needs.
Find out more about how you can get involved in their
programs to protect migrant communities,
establish an enduring peace in Palestine,
demilitarize police forces around the world,
assert the right to food for all, and more. Visit
afsc.org
Visit QuakersToday.org to see our.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:00):
Uh, show notes and a full transcript of this
episode. And if you stick around after the closing you will
hear listeners responses to the question what
novel, film or television series changed
your relationship with the world?
>> Miche McCall (18:13):
This concludes our episode of Quakers Today,
reflecting on staying steady in turbulent
times.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:20):
Thank you for joining us and may you find
moments of stillness and clarity.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (18:34):
Mhm
(18:55):
mhm
(19:16):
mhm
(19:37):
mhm.
>> Miche McCall (20:08):
In a moment you will hear listeners voicemail
responses to the question what
novel, film or television series
changed your relationship with the world?
>> Peterson Toscano (20:18):
But first we have a practical question
for you about this podcast. On um,
our Instagram account, Claudia wrote the
A little feedback on the audio of the podcast.
The background music is too loud and almost
like a duet with the speaker. It is
distracting. I have to really focus on the
(20:40):
speakers. It is annoying so I will take
several breaks to get through it. I really do
appreciate the efforts that it takes to bring a podcast
of this magnitude to us.
>> Miche McCall (20:51):
Thank you Claudia for this feedback. Who else
is having this experience? We want to make sure that the show
is clear and easy for everyone to hear.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:00):
Please let us know by commenting on our social
media we have, uh, TikTok
for as long as it lasts. I don't know,
Instagram and X. And I guess we're
considering going to Blue Sky. I
mean, I can't keep up.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (21:15):
Uh, I'm sorry.
>> Peterson Toscano (21:16):
I'm feeling like I looked at Blue Sky. It's
probably going to happen. You can also email us
podcastriendsjournal.org or call
our listener voicemail line
317quakers. We'll have
all of these details in our show notes. If
this is a problem that can be fixed, we will repair
it.
(21:36):
Oh, and speaking of repair,
Miche, you have a new monthly question for
us.
>> Miche McCall (21:42):
I do. What are some unexpected
ways you find yourself drawn to repair? What
are some unexpected ways you find yourself drawn
to repair? I became a Quaker
through a service year program named Quaker Voluntary
Service. And during that time, I learned
about other service years, including a Jewish
(22:03):
service year called Repair the World. My
first thought was, wow, that's kind of a
bold claim.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (22:09):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (22:10):
That we can just repair the world. Repair the World in
Hebrew is tikkun olam. It's a
belief that we have a responsibility to
contribute to the betterment of the world.
It's not just a theoretical concept,
but it's a living tradition that inspires action
to make the world a better place. And during a service year, you
(22:30):
don't have a whole lot of money to buy
things. M In a world that often
prioritizes the new. I learned
how to fix my bike, darn my socks, and
even repair friendships.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:43):
Oh, uh, I like the term darn my socks. I've not heard
this in a long time.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (22:48):
It sounds like something out of a.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:50):
Christmas song or something.
>> Miche McCall (22:52):
It was a big hobby of my city
court coordinator was darning her socks.
>> Peterson Toscano (22:58):
Did you first say when you saw the hold, you're like, darn my
socks. Then you darned
them?
>> Miche McCall (23:08):
Exactly.
>> Peterson Toscano (23:10):
That's how it works.
So we're talking about repairing all kinds of things.
Physical things, but also potentially emotional things.
Friendships, relationships. Yeah, I get that.
>> Miche McCall (23:21):
Absolutely.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (23:21):
Yeah.
>> Miche McCall (23:22):
And we want to, uh. Yeah. Thinking of repair
holistically. That it's not just objects,
but the things that we do in the world.
And this month, listener, I'd like to hear from
you about repair. What are some
unexpected ways you find yourself drawn to
repair? How and when have you found
joy and meaning in mending things?
(23:43):
This could be anything from mending clothes
or addressing debt to
working towards restorative justice or repairing
damaged relationships. What are some unexpected
ways you find yourself drawn to repair? You can leave
a voice memo with your name and the town where you
live. The number to call is 317
Quakers. That's
(24:05):
317-782-537-7317.
Quakers plus one. If you're calling from
outside the USA, you can also send us an
email or comment on our
social media posts. I'll have these
contact details in our show notes
over@quakerstoday.org
(24:27):
now we hear answers.
>> Peterson Toscano (24:28):
To the question, what novel, film or
television series changed your relationship with
the world? And first we look to answers on social
media. On X, we hear from
the queer Quaker. Hey, queer Quaker.
Queerquaker writes, I'd have to say the
Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin.
It did an incredible job of fictionalizing the
(24:50):
conflicts of the world while providing hope for
a libertarian socialist future.
>> Miche McCall (24:56):
And on Instagram, Amagray
wrote the TV show Star the Next
Generation. Since I was a young kid up until
now, my reaction remains the same even when I
watch the reruns with themes that explore the
possibility of life on other planets.
Science, technology, God,
morality, our existence and what it
(25:18):
means to be human.
>> Peterson Toscano (25:19):
Elaine Emmy wrote Ray
Bradbury, especially Fahrenheit
451. And now we hear
voicemails from listeners who
answer this. What novel, film or
television series change your relationship with the
world?
>> Charlie Dominicki (25:37):
Sally Campbell from Morningside Meeting in New York
City. Raiding Sweet Grass by
Robin Wall Killerer. That series
of essays and um, stories gives
me great hope. And I do think if we go back
to the indigenous wisdom and um,
learn from. Just be open to the trees
and whatever, uh, the over story was
(26:00):
excellent too. All right, take care.
>> Adrian Glamorgan (26:02):
Bye bye.
>> Charlie Dominicki (26:04):
Hi, this is Linda from
Orcas island worship group in
Washington State. For me, it
was a particular scene in
To Kill a Mockingbird
when Gout showed up.
As Atticus was holding
vigil outside the jail,
(26:26):
Scout showed up, much to his
chagrin. As the
Klansmen came in their robes,
Scout happened to recognize
one of them, maybe it was by the shoes,
as a father of one of
her classmates. And she
(26:47):
started carrying on a conversation with
him about his child.
It totally diffused
an otherwise violent
situation. And to me
it was a prime example
of how reaching for
(27:07):
someone's humanity for that
bit of God within another person,
no matter how much we disagree with
their outward action, that
reaching for that bit of God or
humanity can diffuse
a, uh, possible violence, the
(27:27):
strength of love and care. Thank
you.
>> Peterson Toscano (27:33):
Thanks for your answers.
>> Miche McCall (27:34):
Thanks, listener. I'll see you next month.
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