December 16, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of Quakers Today, co-hosts Sweet Miche (they/them) and Peterson Toscano (he/him) tackle a question that seems simple but is actually quite complex: What do Quakers believe?
We explore the wide theological spectrum of the Religious Society of Friends from those who view the Bible as the inerrant word of God to those who may not believe in God at all.
A Smorgasbord of Beliefs
We hear from Adam Segal-Isaacson, a Friend from Brooklyn Meeting who was raised both Jewish and Quaker. Adam shares how he navigates his dual identity and offers a powerful metaphor about harmony versus monotony in worship. Watch the full QuakerSpeak video: Do All Quakers Hold the Same Beliefs?
An Evangelical Friend Among Liberals
Peterson sits down with Jasson Arevalo, an Evangelical Quaker from El Salvador and a student at the Earlham School of Religion. Jasson describes the "Programmed" tradition of his upbringing—complete with pastors and music—and his view of Biblical inerrancy. He shares his experience of studying alongside Liberal, Unprogrammed Friends and how curiosity and respect bridge the theological divide. Read Jasson’s article, "You Will Be Told What You Must Do," in the December 2025 issue of Friends Journal or at FriendsJournal.org.
Convincement and Belonging
What makes someone a Quaker? Is it a membership card or an internal shift? We review the new Pendle Hill pamphlet, Awakening the Witness: Convincement and Belonging in Quaker Community by Matt Rosen. The pamphlet explores the distinction between "convincement", the spiritual experience of becoming a Friend, and formal membership. Learn more at PendleHill.org.
Recommendation
Peterson recommends the Iranian film It Was Just an Accident, directed by Jafar Panahi. It is a darkly comic and morally complicated story about the long-term effects of trauma and the refusal to become like one's oppressors.
Listener Responses
We asked you: What do you believe now that you didn't believe before becoming a Friend?
- Jeremy shares how Quaker history helped him understand the "Great Apostasy" as the moment the church merged with political power.
- Zoe discusses moving from "religion as harm" to religion as a positive force for community.
- Creative Decorating reflects on the mind-blowing concept of "that of God in everyone."
- QuakerSpeak Video: Do All Quakers Hold the Same Beliefs? (Featuring Adam Segal-Isaacson): quakerspeak.com/video/do-all-quakers-hold-the-same-beliefs
- Read Jasson's Article: "You Will Be Told What You Must Do" in Friends Journal: friendsjournal.org/you-will-be-told-what-you-must-do
- Pendle Hill Pamphlet: Awakening the Witness by Matt Rosen: pendlehill.org/product/awakening-the-witness-convincement-and-belonging-in-quaker-community
Next Month's Question
We want to hear from you! What is something you learned in school about Native Americans or Indigenous peoples that you've since learned is not true? Leave us a voice memo with your name and town at 317-QUAKERS (317-782-5377). (+1 if outside the U.S.) You can also reply by email at podcast@FriendsJournal.org or on our social media channels.
Sponsors
Quakers Today is the companion podcast to Friends Journal and other Friends Publishing Corporation content.
Season Five of Quakers Today is sponsored by Friends Fiduciary and the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC).
- Friends Fiduciary provides professional investment management for Quaker organizations, uniting financial goals with Quaker values. Learn more at FriendsFiduciary.org.
- AFSC works to challenge injustice and build peace. Their "North Star Vision" calls for transformative alternatives to prisons and policing. Learn more at afsc.org/NorthStar.
For a full transcript, visit QuakersToday.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
In this episode of Quakers today,we ask what do Quakers believe after
being raised Jewish and Quaker?
Adam Segal-Isaacson considersthe question, do all Quakers
hold the same beliefs?
I share my conversation with anevangelical Quaker from Central America.
Before coming to the USA to studyJasson Arevalo assumed all Quakers
(00:24):
were Bible believing evangelist forJesus, and you'll hear about a new
Pendle Hill pamphlet that explores thequestion, what makes someone a Quaker?
I am Sweet Miche, andI'm Peterson Toscano.
This is Season five, episode four ofthe Quakers Today podcast, A project
(00:44):
of the Friends Publishing Corporation.
This season of Quakers today issponsored by Friends Fiduciary and
American Friends Service Committee.
When someone learns I am aQuaker, they almost always ask
a challenging question, so.
What do Quakers believe?
(01:05):
Same.
And we have no quick, easy answer.
Sweet Miche and I are part ofa branch of Quakerism known as
liberal unprogrammed friends.
Our style of worship is old schoolQuaker, at which a group meets
for long stretches of silence.
If someone feels inspired, theymay stand up and give a message.
(01:27):
Unprogrammed friends differentiateourselves by what's missing
in our worship services.
Elements that are commonin most Christian churches.
For instance, our Quaker meetingswhere we have music or singing, we
don't have a service with regularreadings, sermons, or pastor.
And most striking, we do nothave a creed, a set of beliefs we
(01:48):
can recite or share with others.
If you want to discover what unprogrammedQuakers believe, I encourage you
to speak with multiple Quakers.
You'll walk away with asmorgasbord of beliefs.
The one thing we do have in common is ourcommitment to sit in silence and listen.
We are not the only typeof Quakers in the world.
(02:14):
Recently I spoke with Jasson Arevalo, theson of Quaker Pastors from El Salvador.
A little over two years ago, Jassoncame to the United States to study
at Earlham School of Religion or ESR.
Jasson recently wrote anarticle for Friends Journal.
It's entitled, you WillBe Told What You Must Do.
(02:34):
A biblical perspective on Quaker pastors.
I'm a former evangelical who is now amember of an unprogrammed Quaker meeting.
For a long time, I've wanted tospeak with a church going Bible
believing evangelical Quaker.
Like Jasson.
In the first half of that conversation,Jasson shares his faith journey and
(02:56):
his Christian testimony with Peterson.
Later in the show, you'll hear thesecond half of the conversation.
It is about Jasson's discoveryof a completely different
type of Quaker in the USA.
The deep theological divide amongQuakers in the USA and beyond
becomes personal for both of us.
(03:19):
Could you describe what it'slike to be an evangelical Quaker?
Well, first of all, weare programmed Quakers.
We're seeing, we have a musicpreaching Bible is something
really important for us.
We've evangelize.
(03:39):
Yeah.
Go to the street totalk to people of Jesus.
Yeah.
I will say that probably arethe main distinctive belief.
So how are you differentfrom, say, the Baptist?
About the sacrament.
That is something that wepractice as early Quakers.
(04:03):
We don't do the practice itself,but so you don't do baptism and
you don't have holy communion.
We live in the meaning of, butin a spiritual way, and the Bible
obviously is very important.
Uh, studying the Bible,preaching the Bible there.
They're preaching in allof, uh, our meetings.
(04:26):
Could you talk a little bitabout your faith in Jesus?
Yeah.
When I was around 12 or 13, I have apersonal encounter with God, with Jesus.
Before that I went to churchbecause there was no option In this
experience, I decided to follow Jesus.
(04:46):
I felt complete and living thelifestyle in church, doing ministry.
My relation to Jesus was better.
I get to know better Jesus.
When I was living in Guatemala,I was there when God called
me to the pastoral minister.
(05:06):
At the beginning, I rejectedbecause congregations are
tough sometimes to, to us.
But God called me.
I understood that was thepurpose that he had for me.
I'm happy now with the decisionthat I took in that time.
(05:28):
How do you understand that phrase, theauthority of the Bible, and what's your
view of the Bible from your perspective?
Bible is the word of God itself.
We as Evangelical Quakers, we ruleall whole life by by the Bible.
We also believe in the inspirationof the scriptures and the inerrancy.
(05:53):
Yeah, that's it.
The inerrancy.
Yeah.
If we put together these three things.
Well, at the end you havefor us to read the Bible, to
listen Bible in, uh, preaching.
Mm-hmm.
It is just like, listen directly the voiceof God's, kind of the way that earth.
(06:15):
Quakers also approach scriptures.
George Fox himself says thescripture is the word of God.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's the way we believe.
In the United States, there was a splitthat occurred, this split that has led
to these different branches with theprograms, the Unprogram Evangelical, the
(06:40):
Universalist friends attention occurredsome years ago about personnel policy.
They couldn't be just living with somebodyand they couldn't be gay, married.
A lot of people thought the conflict wasover gay marriage, but I always saw that
the conflict was over the authority ofscripture and the inerrancy of scripture.
(07:01):
I am gay myself.
I was like, could you not talk aboutus, but talk about your real problem?
And that's the Bible.
How we see it differently.
Because even if you settle this gay issue,you still see the Bible in two different
ways and that seems to be the real split.
Some evangelical Quakers inAmerica and the US, they believe
(07:22):
the Bible, like you say, is iner.
It has the authority.
It's the final word.
In liberal friends, we almost never knowwhat the person next to us believes.
They could believe in Jesus.
They could be a Buddhist.
They could be Jewish, theymay not believe in God at all.
They may be an atheist.
We don't talk about it.
We just kind of sit silentlyand we worship together.
(07:46):
And that must be a strange experiencefor you, I would think, to be in worship
with people who believe so differentlyor maybe not, could be worse, but
you just heard Peterson inconversation with Jasson Arevalo.
Coming up, you'll hear about Jasson'sencounters with unprogrammed liberal
(08:08):
friends who worship and believe inways that were completely foreign
to Jasson's Quaker experiences.
But first, Adam Segal-Isaacson tellsus about growing up Jewish and Quaker.
(08:29):
My favorite metaphor about God is thestory of the blind men and the elephant.
Each man feels a different partof the elephant and thinks this
is what the elephant is about.
And I think that in a lot ofways, that's the way we are about
God is that we all see differentaspects of God, and the totality
(08:52):
of God is greater than all of that.
Quakers are very broad in their beliefs.
I think it works by getting atsome fundamentals of what a lot
of religions have preached, whichis to bring people together.
Traditionally, Quakers were Christian,mostly because in England, in
(09:15):
the 60 and forties, there wasn'tanybody who wasn't a Christian.
Even in that first generation of Quakers,there was a reaching out to others.
There was always a sense of it beinga larger group that we could encompass
anybody who was inclined to be encompass.
(09:36):
That has meant that people havecome to Quakerism from a variety of
backgrounds and that their experiencescan help enhance our experiences.
So that we learn from eachother and we can grow from that.
I was raised parallel going to meeting.
(10:00):
I went to Temple on afairly regular basis.
There's been no conflict for me betweenQuakers and Judaism 'cause Judaism's
focus is on doing Mitzvah, doinggood things In the context of what is
happening at any given time, friendsare trying to see ways to make things.
(10:22):
Better for people.
Friends are able to exist withvastly different beliefs because
they see each other as beingseekers after the truth rather than
people who already know the truth.
(10:42):
That allows for a lotof different approaches.
The blending of different things togethercan create something that's greater.
You know, if everybody'ssinging the same tune.
That's not harmony, that's monotony.
And when you think about complexpieces of music, you see all sorts
(11:06):
of different things happening
and moving together.
And they don't always soundperfectly together, but then they
do sort of come together in the end.
That's a metaphor that has been verypowerful for me as a way of seeing
(11:26):
how different viewpoints can join.
That was Adam Segal-Isaacsonfrom the Quaker Speak video.
Do all Quakers hold the same beliefs?
You can watch it and other Quaker themedvideos on the Quaker Speak YouTube page.
or at quakerspeak.com.
A big thank you to Leila Kero forfilming and editing these videos.
(12:22):
Before you came to the United States,what experience did you have with
us Quakers, in particular US Quakerswho are unprogrammed liberal friends?
No, I didn't know anythingabout on program Quakers.
I had some experience withmissionaries, but they were
(12:46):
evangelicals from California.
I have a very nice experienceamong all kind of Quakers here.
I have practiced the Silenceand the own program worship.
I enjoy that.
Something that helped me alot is that our community.
(13:08):
SR is very respectful.
Very open, open mind.
They are really interested onwhat you have to say about the
way you see the descriptors.
Some of them, they never have heardabout, for example, the evangelical
(13:32):
interpretation of the scriptures.
So when I got to participate inclass, it's like something new.
For them and they ask me to talkmore and they ask me, how do you
interpret this or how do you see these?
(13:54):
Also, when they share the way everybodyinterpret Bible or or tabs, everybody
have about Bible is very formative for me.
This dynamic of sharing, not trying toconvince others about what I believe.
(14:14):
I think that have helped me a lot becauseI feel that I can stand on my belief.
I also respect other perspectiveand I learn from them.
This dynamic have helped me a lot.
On the contrary, it couldbe very traumatic for me.
(14:35):
Mm-hmm.
To get to a place where they tryto impose this new knowledge,
but it haven't been like that.
What I'm hearing you say isthat it, it works there at ESR
because people respect each other.
They're listening to each other.
(14:56):
They're sharing their beliefs andit sounds like you are curious.
They're curious, and thatcuriosity helps a lot, but no
one is imposing their beliefs.
Here it is in an open hand.
This is what I believe.
Take it.
Leave it.
Look at it.
It's okay.
Yeah.
(15:23):
Many thanks to Jasson Arevalofor being on today's show.
You can see an extended versionof his conversation on the
Friends Journal YouTube page.
There you'll find a version of theconversation in Spanish, Jasson's
article, you'll be told what you must do.
A biblical perspective on QuakerPastors appears in the December,
(15:47):
2025 issue of Friends Journal.
You can also read it forfree at friendsjournal.org.
Jasson and Adam have very different ideasabout the boundaries of Quakerism and
what we believe it brings us to essentialquestion, what makes someone a Quaker?
(16:09):
It's a question that feels so simple, butabsolutely isn't, and it so happens that
there's a new Pendle Hill pamphlet thatdives into the deep end of this question.
Pendle Hill is a Quaker Center outsideof Philadelphia that's been publishing
these short pamphlets that friends write.
They expand understandingof Quaker life and witness.
(16:31):
This pamphlet is called Awakening theWitness, commencement and Belonging
in Quaker Community by Matt Rosen.
Is a word we use a lot as oneaspect of a three phase process,
conviction and conversion.
It's the experience of becoming a Quaker.
(16:54):
Yeah, it's that moment, that processwhere you feel this inner shift.
It's a realization.
There is this infinitely lovingpresence and a new way to live.
Rosen shares his own story ofbeing a confirmed atheist who then
unexpectedly felt inexplicablyheld, cared for, and accompanied.
(17:18):
He became a convinced friend, but itwas years before he became a. Member,
if you're someone who feels thatcommitment, that inner poll, but for
whatever reason you aren't a memberof a Quaker meeting, this pamphlet
is a reassurance that it's stilllegitimate To call yourself a Quaker.
The pamphlet is Awakening theWitness, ment and Belonging in
(17:42):
Quaker Community by Matt Rosen.
It's Pendle Hill pamphlet number 492.
You can learn more about Quakerpublications and order this
pamphlet at pendelhill.org.
You can read the Review ofAwakening the Witness by John Andrew
Gallery at friendsjournal.org
(18:06):
and Peterson.
You have a recommendationfor us this month.
I wanna recommend the Iranian film.
It was just an accident.
It's directed by.
Jafar Panahi.
This film has won major awards at Cannesand has a 97% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
(18:27):
The story follows a group of formerpolitical prisoners who unexpectedly
come face to face with one oftheir most vicious torchers verse.
What unfolds is a darkly comicsurreal and morally complicated story?
Will they take revenge?
Can they free themselvesfrom the trauma they carry?
(18:49):
At one point, Shiva played by MariamAfshari Insist, but we are not like them.
A line that becomes the film'sspiritual anchor, the way the film
was made is just as extraordinary.
Anahi long band from filmmaking.
Shot it in secret locationsacross Iran, inside a van and
(19:11):
back alleys out in the desert.
The team hid footage, used decoymemory cards during a stage police
raid, and sent part of the filmabroad for safe editing for me.
It was just an accident is apowerful political witness.
It shows what fear and violencedo to a people and the courage
(19:31):
it takes not to become like theperpetrators who harmed you.
We started this episode by asking,what do Quakers believe, and I am not
sure we landed on a single easy answer.
Yeah, and maybe that's themost honest answer we have.
(19:51):
The common thread isn't that believinganything in particular makes you a Quaker.
A question that onlyelicits more questions.
Yeah, that's right.
And maybe that's all I can ask for.
Well, thank you friends for joiningus on this episode of Quakers Today.
Do us a favor rate interview.
(20:14):
Our show on Apple Podcasts or Spotifyreally helps us get our podcast to
more folks with questions like leads.
And thank you for sharing Quakers todaywith your friends out on social media and.
If you haven't done so yet, shareit with your Quaker meeting.
Quakers today is written and produced byme, Sweet Miche and me Peterson Toscano.
(20:38):
Music on today's showcomes from Epidemic Sound.
Season five of Quakers today is sponsoredby the American Friends Service Committee.
The American Friends ServiceCommittee works at the forefront of
social change to meet urgent needs,challenge and justice and build peace.
The US spends over $200 billiona year on prisons and policing.
(21:04):
More per capita than any other countrywith disproportionate harm to people
of color and the poor AFSC's NorthStar vision calls for transformative
alternatives, rooted in healing,restoration, and human dignity.
Learn more at afsc.org/northstar.
(21:29):
Season five of Quakers today isalso sponsored by Friends Fiduciary.
Friends.
Fiduciary unites Quakervalues with expert investing.
They serve more than 460 organizationswith ethical portfolios, shareholder
advocacy, and a deep commitmentto justice and sustainability.
(21:50):
Investing isn't just aboutreturns, it's about values.
For over 125 years, friendsfiduciary has provided affordable
professional investment managementto meetings, churches and schools.
Today they manage $700 million inassets for over 460 organizations.
(22:11):
Learn more at friendsfiduciary.org.
Visit quakers today.org tosee our show notes in a full
transcript of this episode.
And if you stick around after the closing,you'll hear listener responses to the
question, what do you believe now thatyou didn't believe before becoming a
friend or before encountering Quakerism?
(22:34):
Before that, I want to askyou next month's question.
What is something you learned inschool about Native Americans or
indigenous peoples that you'vesince learned is not true?
Sweet, Miche.
I'm so glad you're asking this question.
I was humiliated a couple years ago bymy husband who's South African, and after
(22:55):
we spent time in South Africa, he waswriting about indigenous people there.
Come back to the UnitedStates and he says, so.
What do you know about indigenouspeople in the United States?
He was really interested in what Ilearned in school, and I was realized
I didn't know much about anything otherthan inadvertently we'd given blankets.
(23:15):
I had no details.
Well, it didn't take him too long tofigure out that there are details.
This is the first recordedcase of germ warfare.
And so this vague story is an actualstory and it's a terrible story.
Uh, so I'm curious to see what people haverealized is not true that they learned,
(23:36):
and more importantly, I guess, whathaven't you learned that you have since
learned that is important to know about?
Yeah, absolutely.
Leave us a voice memo with yourname and the town where you live.
The number to call is (317) 782-5377.
Or 3 1 7 Quakers.
(23:56):
You can also email us atpodcast@quakerstoday.org or
podcast@friendsjournal.org.
And of course, feel free to leave acomment when you see this question pop up
On our social media pages, we have TikTokX Blue Sky, well, my Blue Sky Instagram.
All these details are in our show notesover@quakerstoday.org, and here are the
(24:21):
answers to what do you believe now thatyou didn't believe before becoming a
friend or before encountering Quaker?
One theme that came through againand again was how Quaker faith
reshapes people's relationshipto church power and history.
Jeremy wrote in with areally striking story.
He grew up Mormon.
(24:42):
In a Restorationists tradition thattalked a lot about a great apostasy and
a return to New Testaments Christianity,Jeremy says that idea started to
fall apart when he saw the very humanflaws of the leaders he'd been told to
trust, but then he encountered Quakersand he heard someone named the Great
Apostasy as the day Constantine joined.
(25:04):
Church and Empire.
Jeremy writes quote, for thefirst time in my life, the great
apostasy made perfect sense.
Returning to permanented Christianitymeans separating the church from political
power, and that alone really can drive outso much of the behavior that has made so
many people to test organized religion.
That sense of this feels off, butI don't have language for it yet.
(25:28):
Shows up in other comments too.
James told us that even as a child, henever felt God as up in heaven far away.
James writes quote, I think there'splenty of circumstantial evidence to
indicate I was probably born Quaker.
I love that so much.
Zoe shared that she was an exevangelical when she first encountered
(25:49):
friends at a Quaker college.
She says, quote, my first revelationwas the possibility of religion
and spirituality being a positiveforce for families and communities.
Quakerism restored my hope thatreligion can exist as uplifting,
supportive, and inclusive.
End quote.
It's a big shift from religionas harm to religion as healing.
(26:11):
Mm-hmm.
One listener creative decorating wrotequote, the belief that there's that
of God in everyone is mind blowing.
To have so much respect for otherhumans, regardless of their temperaments,
flaws, et cetera, is probably themost beautiful idea I've encountered.
Moon shared something simple thatI can have a relationship with a
(26:34):
divine and still love my neighbor.
And then someone else brought in aline from the United Church of Christ.
Don't put a period where God put a comma.
That really sounds likecontinuing revelation to me.
Finally, star left us a questionthat we're gonna carry forward.
(26:54):
They asked, other than continuingrevelation, what are some of the
other differences between Quakersand other Christian denominations?
Yeah, that's a huge question.
And some of our episode here actuallytoday, uh, answers some of the
differences, but it's the exactly thekind of question that keeps coming up
when people ask, what do Quakers believe?
(27:17):
So we're gonna keep circlingback to it in future episodes.
Thank you so much for everyone whoshared, and if you wanna answer
our next question and get featuredon the episode, here it is again.
What is a moment or experience where yourealized a story you were taught about?
Indigenous peoples or the historyof colonization was incomplete
(27:37):
or wrong, and what shifted inyour understanding as a result.
You can always leave us a voicemailat 3 1 7 Quakers or email us at
podcast@quakerstoday.org and likethese folks did, you can leave,
uh, comments in our social media.
These all came from tick.
Talk.
We really do read and listen toeverything you send and when you
(28:01):
send a voicemail, you have noidea the sort of happy dance I do.
So I'm gonna give you thatnumber again, it's 3 1 7 Quakers.
Uh, your stories keep shapingthis podcast and our understanding
what it means to be friends today.
Thank you so much for listening.
In this episode of Quakers today,we ask what do Quakers believe after
being raised Jewish and Quaker?
Adam Segal-Isaacson considersthe question, do all Quakers
hold the same beliefs?
I share my conversation with anevangelical Quaker from Central America.
Before coming to the USA to studyJasson Arevalo assumed all Quakers
(00:24):
were Bible believing evangelist forJesus, and you'll hear about a new
Pendle Hill pamphlet that explores thequestion, what makes someone a Quaker?
I am Sweet Miche, andI'm Peterson Toscano.
This is Season five, episode four ofthe Quakers Today podcast, A project
(00:44):
of the Friends Publishing Corporation.
This season of Quakers today issponsored by Friends Fiduciary and
American Friends Service Committee.
When someone learns I am aQuaker, they almost always ask
a challenging question, so.
What do Quakers believe?
(01:05):
Same.
And we have no quick, easy answer.
Sweet Miche and I are part ofa branch of Quakerism known as
liberal unprogrammed friends.
Our style of worship is old schoolQuaker, at which a group meets
for long stretches of silence.
If someone feels inspired, theymay stand up and give a message.
(01:27):
Unprogrammed friends differentiateourselves by what's missing
in our worship services.
Elements that are commonin most Christian churches.
For instance, our Quaker meetingswhere we have music or singing, we
don't have a service with regularreadings, sermons, or pastor.
And most striking, we do nothave a creed, a set of beliefs we
(01:48):
can recite or share with others.
If you want to discover what unprogrammedQuakers believe, I encourage you
to speak with multiple Quakers.
You'll walk away with asmorgasbord of beliefs.
The one thing we do have in common is ourcommitment to sit in silence and listen.
We are not the only typeof Quakers in the world.
(02:14):
Recently I spoke with Jasson Arevalo, theson of Quaker Pastors from El Salvador.
A little over two years ago, Jassoncame to the United States to study
at Earlham School of Religion or ESR.
Jasson recently wrote anarticle for Friends Journal.
It's entitled, you WillBe Told What You Must Do.
(02:34):
A biblical perspective on Quaker pastors.
I'm a former evangelical who is now amember of an unprogrammed Quaker meeting.
For a long time, I've wanted tospeak with a church going Bible
believing evangelical Quaker.
Like Jasson.
In the first half of that conversation,Jasson shares his faith journey and
(02:56):
his Christian testimony with Peterson.
Later in the show, you'll hear thesecond half of the conversation.
It is about Jasson's discoveryof a completely different
type of Quaker in the USA.
The deep theological divide amongQuakers in the USA and beyond
becomes personal for both of us.
(03:19):
Could you describe what it'slike to be an evangelical Quaker?
Well, first of all, weare programmed Quakers.
We're seeing, we have a musicpreaching Bible is something
really important for us.
We've evangelize.
(03:39):
Yeah.
Go to the street totalk to people of Jesus.
Yeah.
I will say that probably arethe main distinctive belief.
So how are you differentfrom, say, the Baptist?
About the sacrament.
That is something that wepractice as early Quakers.
(04:03):
We don't do the practice itself,but so you don't do baptism and
you don't have holy communion.
We live in the meaning of, butin a spiritual way, and the Bible
obviously is very important.
Uh, studying the Bible,preaching the Bible there.
They're preaching in allof, uh, our meetings.
(04:26):
Could you talk a little bitabout your faith in Jesus?
Yeah.
When I was around 12 or 13, I have apersonal encounter with God, with Jesus.
Before that I went to churchbecause there was no option In this
experience, I decided to follow Jesus.
(04:46):
I felt complete and living thelifestyle in church, doing ministry.
My relation to Jesus was better.
I get to know better Jesus.
When I was living in Guatemala,I was there when God called
me to the pastoral minister.
(05:06):
At the beginning, I rejectedbecause congregations are
tough sometimes to, to us.
But God called me.
I understood that was thepurpose that he had for me.
I'm happy now with the decisionthat I took in that time.
(05:28):
How do you understand that phrase, theauthority of the Bible, and what's your
view of the Bible from your perspective?
Bible is the word of God itself.
We as Evangelical Quakers, we ruleall whole life by by the Bible.
We also believe in the inspirationof the scriptures and the inerrancy.
(05:53):
Yeah, that's it.
The inerrancy.
Yeah.
If we put together these three things.
Well, at the end you havefor us to read the Bible, to
listen Bible in, uh, preaching.
Mm-hmm.
It is just like, listen directly the voiceof God's, kind of the way that earth.
(06:15):
Quakers also approach scriptures.
George Fox himself says thescripture is the word of God.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's the way we believe.
In the United States, there was a splitthat occurred, this split that has led
to these different branches with theprograms, the Unprogram Evangelical, the
(06:40):
Universalist friends attention occurredsome years ago about personnel policy.
They couldn't be just living with somebodyand they couldn't be gay, married.
A lot of people thought the conflict wasover gay marriage, but I always saw that
the conflict was over the authority ofscripture and the inerrancy of scripture.
(07:01):
I am gay myself.
I was like, could you not talk aboutus, but talk about your real problem?
And that's the Bible.
How we see it differently.
Because even if you settle this gay issue,you still see the Bible in two different
ways and that seems to be the real split.
Some evangelical Quakers inAmerica and the US, they believe
(07:22):
the Bible, like you say, is iner.
It has the authority.
It's the final word.
In liberal friends, we almost never knowwhat the person next to us believes.
They could believe in Jesus.
They could be a Buddhist.
They could be Jewish, theymay not believe in God at all.
They may be an atheist.
We don't talk about it.
We just kind of sit silentlyand we worship together.
(07:46):
And that must be a strange experiencefor you, I would think, to be in worship
with people who believe so differentlyor maybe not, could be worse, but
you just heard Peterson inconversation with Jasson Arevalo.
Coming up, you'll hear about Jasson'sencounters with unprogrammed liberal
(08:08):
friends who worship and believe inways that were completely foreign
to Jasson's Quaker experiences.
But first, Adam Segal-Isaacson tellsus about growing up Jewish and Quaker.
(08:29):
My favorite metaphor about God is thestory of the blind men and the elephant.
Each man feels a different partof the elephant and thinks this
is what the elephant is about.
And I think that in a lot ofways, that's the way we are about
God is that we all see differentaspects of God, and the totality
(08:52):
of God is greater than all of that.
Quakers are very broad in their beliefs.
I think it works by getting atsome fundamentals of what a lot
of religions have preached, whichis to bring people together.
Traditionally, Quakers were Christian,mostly because in England, in
(09:15):
the 60 and forties, there wasn'tanybody who wasn't a Christian.
Even in that first generation of Quakers,there was a reaching out to others.
There was always a sense of it beinga larger group that we could encompass
anybody who was inclined to be encompass.
(09:36):
That has meant that people havecome to Quakerism from a variety of
backgrounds and that their experiencescan help enhance our experiences.
So that we learn from eachother and we can grow from that.
I was raised parallel going to meeting.
(10:00):
I went to Temple on afairly regular basis.
There's been no conflict for me betweenQuakers and Judaism 'cause Judaism's
focus is on doing Mitzvah, doinggood things In the context of what is
happening at any given time, friendsare trying to see ways to make things.
(10:22):
Better for people.
Friends are able to exist withvastly different beliefs because
they see each other as beingseekers after the truth rather than
people who already know the truth.
(10:42):
That allows for a lotof different approaches.
The blending of different things togethercan create something that's greater.
You know, if everybody'ssinging the same tune.
That's not harmony, that's monotony.
And when you think about complexpieces of music, you see all sorts
(11:06):
of different things happening
and moving together.
And they don't always soundperfectly together, but then they
do sort of come together in the end.
That's a metaphor that has been verypowerful for me as a way of seeing
(11:26):
how different viewpoints can join.
That was Adam Segal-Isaacsonfrom the Quaker Speak video.
Do all Quakers hold the same beliefs?
You can watch it and other Quaker themedvideos on the Quaker Speak YouTube page.
or at quakerspeak.com.
A big thank you to Leila Kero forfilming and editing these videos.
(12:22):
Before you came to the United States,what experience did you have with
us Quakers, in particular US Quakerswho are unprogrammed liberal friends?
No, I didn't know anythingabout on program Quakers.
I had some experience withmissionaries, but they were
(12:46):
evangelicals from California.
I have a very nice experienceamong all kind of Quakers here.
I have practiced the Silenceand the own program worship.
I enjoy that.
Something that helped me alot is that our community.
(13:08):
SR is very respectful.
Very open, open mind.
They are really interested onwhat you have to say about the
way you see the descriptors.
Some of them, they never have heardabout, for example, the evangelical
(13:32):
interpretation of the scriptures.
So when I got to participate inclass, it's like something new.
For them and they ask me to talkmore and they ask me, how do you
interpret this or how do you see these?
(13:54):
Also, when they share the way everybodyinterpret Bible or or tabs, everybody
have about Bible is very formative for me.
This dynamic of sharing, not trying toconvince others about what I believe.
(14:14):
I think that have helped me a lot becauseI feel that I can stand on my belief.
I also respect other perspectiveand I learn from them.
This dynamic have helped me a lot.
On the contrary, it couldbe very traumatic for me.
(14:35):
Mm-hmm.
To get to a place where they tryto impose this new knowledge,
but it haven't been like that.
What I'm hearing you say isthat it, it works there at ESR
because people respect each other.
They're listening to each other.
(14:56):
They're sharing their beliefs andit sounds like you are curious.
They're curious, and thatcuriosity helps a lot, but no
one is imposing their beliefs.
Here it is in an open hand.
This is what I believe.
Take it.
Leave it.
Look at it.
It's okay.
Yeah.
(15:23):
Many thanks to Jasson Arevalofor being on today's show.
You can see an extended versionof his conversation on the
Friends Journal YouTube page.
There you'll find a version of theconversation in Spanish, Jasson's
article, you'll be told what you must do.
A biblical perspective on QuakerPastors appears in the December,
(15:47):
2025 issue of Friends Journal.
You can also read it forfree at friendsjournal.org.
Jasson and Adam have very different ideasabout the boundaries of Quakerism and
what we believe it brings us to essentialquestion, what makes someone a Quaker?
(16:09):
It's a question that feels so simple, butabsolutely isn't, and it so happens that
there's a new Pendle Hill pamphlet thatdives into the deep end of this question.
Pendle Hill is a Quaker Center outsideof Philadelphia that's been publishing
these short pamphlets that friends write.
They expand understandingof Quaker life and witness.
(16:31):
This pamphlet is called Awakening theWitness, commencement and Belonging
in Quaker Community by Matt Rosen.
Is a word we use a lot as oneaspect of a three phase process,
conviction and conversion.
It's the experience of becoming a Quaker.
(16:54):
Yeah, it's that moment, that processwhere you feel this inner shift.
It's a realization.
There is this infinitely lovingpresence and a new way to live.
Rosen shares his own story ofbeing a confirmed atheist who then
unexpectedly felt inexplicablyheld, cared for, and accompanied.
(17:18):
He became a convinced friend, but itwas years before he became a. Member,
if you're someone who feels thatcommitment, that inner poll, but for
whatever reason you aren't a memberof a Quaker meeting, this pamphlet
is a reassurance that it's stilllegitimate To call yourself a Quaker.
The pamphlet is Awakening theWitness, ment and Belonging in
(17:42):
Quaker Community by Matt Rosen.
It's Pendle Hill pamphlet number 492.
You can learn more about Quakerpublications and order this
pamphlet at pendelhill.org.
You can read the Review ofAwakening the Witness by John Andrew
Gallery at friendsjournal.org
(18:06):
and Peterson.
You have a recommendationfor us this month.
I wanna recommend the Iranian film.
It was just an accident.
It's directed by.
Jafar Panahi.
This film has won major awards at Cannesand has a 97% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
(18:27):
The story follows a group of formerpolitical prisoners who unexpectedly
come face to face with one oftheir most vicious torchers verse.
What unfolds is a darkly comicsurreal and morally complicated story?
Will they take revenge?
Can they free themselvesfrom the trauma they carry?
(18:49):
At one point, Shiva played by MariamAfshari Insist, but we are not like them.
A line that becomes the film'sspiritual anchor, the way the film
was made is just as extraordinary.
Anahi long band from filmmaking.
Shot it in secret locationsacross Iran, inside a van and
(19:11):
back alleys out in the desert.
The team hid footage, used decoymemory cards during a stage police
raid, and sent part of the filmabroad for safe editing for me.
It was just an accident is apowerful political witness.
It shows what fear and violencedo to a people and the courage
(19:31):
it takes not to become like theperpetrators who harmed you.
We started this episode by asking,what do Quakers believe, and I am not
sure we landed on a single easy answer.
Yeah, and maybe that's themost honest answer we have.
(19:51):
The common thread isn't that believinganything in particular makes you a Quaker.
A question that onlyelicits more questions.
Yeah, that's right.
And maybe that's all I can ask for.
Well, thank you friends for joiningus on this episode of Quakers Today.
Do us a favor rate interview.
(20:14):
Our show on Apple Podcasts or Spotifyreally helps us get our podcast to
more folks with questions like leads.
And thank you for sharing Quakers todaywith your friends out on social media and.
If you haven't done so yet, shareit with your Quaker meeting.
Quakers today is written and produced byme, Sweet Miche and me Peterson Toscano.
(20:38):
Music on today's showcomes from Epidemic Sound.
Season five of Quakers today is sponsoredby the American Friends Service Committee.
The American Friends ServiceCommittee works at the forefront of
social change to meet urgent needs,challenge and justice and build peace.
The US spends over $200 billiona year on prisons and policing.
(21:04):
More per capita than any other countrywith disproportionate harm to people
of color and the poor AFSC's NorthStar vision calls for transformative
alternatives, rooted in healing,restoration, and human dignity.
Learn more at afsc.org/northstar.
(21:29):
Season five of Quakers today isalso sponsored by Friends Fiduciary.
Friends.
Fiduciary unites Quakervalues with expert investing.
They serve more than 460 organizationswith ethical portfolios, shareholder
advocacy, and a deep commitmentto justice and sustainability.
(21:50):
Investing isn't just aboutreturns, it's about values.
For over 125 years, friendsfiduciary has provided affordable
professional investment managementto meetings, churches and schools.
Today they manage $700 million inassets for over 460 organizations.
(22:11):
Learn more at friendsfiduciary.org.
Visit quakers today.org tosee our show notes in a full
transcript of this episode.
And if you stick around after the closing,you'll hear listener responses to the
question, what do you believe now thatyou didn't believe before becoming a
friend or before encountering Quakerism?
(22:34):
Before that, I want to askyou next month's question.
What is something you learned inschool about Native Americans or
indigenous peoples that you'vesince learned is not true?
Sweet, Miche.
I'm so glad you're asking this question.
I was humiliated a couple years ago bymy husband who's South African, and after
(22:55):
we spent time in South Africa, he waswriting about indigenous people there.
Come back to the UnitedStates and he says, so.
What do you know about indigenouspeople in the United States?
He was really interested in what Ilearned in school, and I was realized
I didn't know much about anything otherthan inadvertently we'd given blankets.
(23:15):
I had no details.
Well, it didn't take him too long tofigure out that there are details.
This is the first recordedcase of germ warfare.
And so this vague story is an actualstory and it's a terrible story.
Uh, so I'm curious to see what people haverealized is not true that they learned,
(23:36):
and more importantly, I guess, whathaven't you learned that you have since
learned that is important to know about?
Yeah, absolutely.
Leave us a voice memo with yourname and the town where you live.
The number to call is (317) 782-5377.
Or 3 1 7 Quakers.
(23:56):
You can also email us atpodcast@quakerstoday.org or
podcast@friendsjournal.org.
And of course, feel free to leave acomment when you see this question pop up
On our social media pages, we have TikTokX Blue Sky, well, my Blue Sky Instagram.
All these details are in our show notesover@quakerstoday.org, and here are the
(24:21):
answers to what do you believe now thatyou didn't believe before becoming a
friend or before encountering Quaker?
One theme that came through againand again was how Quaker faith
reshapes people's relationshipto church power and history.
Jeremy wrote in with areally striking story.
He grew up Mormon.
(24:42):
In a Restorationists tradition thattalked a lot about a great apostasy and
a return to New Testaments Christianity,Jeremy says that idea started to
fall apart when he saw the very humanflaws of the leaders he'd been told to
trust, but then he encountered Quakersand he heard someone named the Great
Apostasy as the day Constantine joined.
(25:04):
Church and Empire.
Jeremy writes quote, for thefirst time in my life, the great
apostasy made perfect sense.
Returning to permanented Christianitymeans separating the church from political
power, and that alone really can drive outso much of the behavior that has made so
many people to test organized religion.
That sense of this feels off, butI don't have language for it yet.
(25:28):
Shows up in other comments too.
James told us that even as a child, henever felt God as up in heaven far away.
James writes quote, I think there'splenty of circumstantial evidence to
indicate I was probably born Quaker.
I love that so much.
Zoe shared that she was an exevangelical when she first encountered
(25:49):
friends at a Quaker college.
She says, quote, my first revelationwas the possibility of religion
and spirituality being a positiveforce for families and communities.
Quakerism restored my hope thatreligion can exist as uplifting,
supportive, and inclusive.
End quote.
It's a big shift from religionas harm to religion as healing.
(26:11):
Mm-hmm.
One listener creative decorating wrotequote, the belief that there's that
of God in everyone is mind blowing.
To have so much respect for otherhumans, regardless of their temperaments,
flaws, et cetera, is probably themost beautiful idea I've encountered.
Moon shared something simple thatI can have a relationship with a
(26:34):
divine and still love my neighbor.
And then someone else brought in aline from the United Church of Christ.
Don't put a period where God put a comma.
That really sounds likecontinuing revelation to me.
Finally, star left us a questionthat we're gonna carry forward.
(26:54):
They asked, other than continuingrevelation, what are some of the
other differences between Quakersand other Christian denominations?
Yeah, that's a huge question.
And some of our episode here actuallytoday, uh, answers some of the
differences, but it's the exactly thekind of question that keeps coming up
when people ask, what do Quakers believe?
(27:17):
So we're gonna keep circlingback to it in future episodes.
Thank you so much for everyone whoshared, and if you wanna answer
our next question and get featuredon the episode, here it is again.
What is a moment or experience where yourealized a story you were taught about?
Indigenous peoples or the historyof colonization was incomplete
(27:37):
or wrong, and what shifted inyour understanding as a result.
You can always leave us a voicemailat 3 1 7 Quakers or email us at
podcast@quakerstoday.org and likethese folks did, you can leave,
uh, comments in our social media.
These all came from tick.
Talk.
We really do read and listen toeverything you send and when you
(28:01):
send a voicemail, you have noidea the sort of happy dance I do.
So I'm gonna give you thatnumber again, it's 3 1 7 Quakers.
Uh, your stories keep shapingthis podcast and our understanding
what it means to be friends today.
Thank you so much for listening.
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