August 28, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode of Rambling Through the Bramble, hosts Hobart and Clark Taylor delve into the multifaceted appeal of Kamala Harris. They explore how her background as a second-generation American resonates with a growing, yet often overlooked, demographic in the United States.
The discussion touches on historical and cultural shifts, comparing the long-standing presence of African Americans with the more recent waves of immigration. The hosts reflect on how these dynamics influence perceptions of entitlement and eligibility for the highest offices in the country.
The conversation also ventures into broader themes such as the evolving concept of American identity, the impact of neuroplasticity on societal change, and the importance of cultural representation in leadership. As they navigate through these topics, Hobart and Clark offer insights into the challenges and opportunities that come with redefining what it means to be American in the 21st century.
Tune in for a thought-provoking episode that examines the intersection of race, immigration, and national identity, all through the lens of Kamala Harris' historic rise in American politics.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Cut out the opening part anyway. Why? The editing, you know,
our jibber-jabber between the beginning, it's just, you know, you just lop it off.
Yeah, I know, I know. Maybe we should just use this as a beginning,
talking about our jibber-jabber because it gives a real feel,
hey, this is Hobart Taylor here. Yeah, Clark Taylor here.
(00:23):
And we do a show called, what's it called, Clark? Rambling Through the Bramble.
And we're going to talk about stuff.
Yes, we are. You know, something that occurred to me yesterday was part of Kamala Harris' appeal.
(00:46):
Not just the fact that she's a South Asian or African American woman.
It's the fact that she's a second-generation American.
And that's a group, a growing group, that doesn't really get acknowledged.
(01:08):
Sometimes people feel like you have to have been here several generations before
you're somehow entitled to the highest office.
And certainly the sense of entitlement that Donald Trump has is possibly born
from the fact that members of his family have been here for a long time and
(01:33):
have been prominent for a long time.
And even in the case of Barack Obama, while his father was an immigrant,
his mother's family goes back in the States for generations.
Buying Kansas stock. Yeah. So she's a true anomaly,
(01:55):
and yet there are a lot of people with that same background,
whose parents came from somewhere else, and whose parents couldn't run for president
because the Constitution requires that you be a natural-born citizen,
but certainly their kids can.
(02:15):
It's something that I think that has been overlooked a lot.
Although her speech at the convention stressed the fact that both of her parents
came here for the unique opportunities that this country provides.
Yeah, that she's the first generation of immigrants, which is one of the centerpieces
(02:39):
of the Republicans' dirt that they have on her.
I mean, they treat everything like it's either got it's gotcha or or something
that, you know, they don't treat it like differences of opinion.
They treat it like, aha, you know.
Yeah, I think my opinion on it is that as soon as she was nominated,
(03:04):
it just it was so unlikely that she would be up for president or be vice president.
Just in the American story, it's unlikely that she would make it to this place in our society.
And so it has the wings of providence on it.
(03:25):
There's no arguing that point because that's what the right would certainly look to.
I mean, they've created a saint out of Donald Trump, impossibly elevated this
man to some kind of religious figure.
And so, of course, she carries that same kind of mantle for them,
(03:49):
whereas you and I can see a clearer path for her.
You know, prosecutor, attorney general in the largest state in the union,
certainly a very powerful position.
And four years as vice president.
You know, I think maybe part of it is assumptions that people have made for
(04:11):
so long, nativist assumptions, and this is not like new.
I mean, this was back in the 1840s and 50s when there were the various anti-immigrant
political parties and movements.
But the sort of nativist assumption that three or four or five generations means
(04:39):
that you are connected to this place in a way that's different from anybody else,
and you have a sort of a different sort of pride of ownership or connection.
And it goes back to the fact that in European countries, people generally,
if you're Italian, you're from Italy, a few people who are second and third
(05:03):
generation, but people didn't move around.
Whereas here there are
like these cohorts these immigrant
cohorts and if you can trace
yourself back to the Mayflower cohort then obviously everything belongs to you
of course we all know the deep irony is that everybody except the Native Americans
(05:31):
in this country is an immigrant So,
in fact, they're all immigrants.
And the claims to land were all specious. They're just made-up maps in some other country.
I did a whole bunch of reading today.
I got into Thomas Jefferson and read Wikipedia at him and just kind of did a
(05:56):
full screen. reading, you know, the whole Louisiana Purchase was this vast area
of land that somehow France.
Had the ability to sell and that the brand-new American nation had the ability
to buy with all these people living on it for thousands of years,
and they just had to tell them, yeah, we just sold your land to another country.
(06:22):
Comprehension was probably zero on that.
Nobody would have any understanding of that until cavalry showed up and started shooting people.
Well, I'll tell you what it is. And one way of thinking of it is this.
Imagine that you live in a place, and one day there's a Fleur de Lis,
(06:43):
and the next day there's a Starz and a Strike.
And, you know, but where your house is, where the creek is, where the mountain
is, where the elk run, those things are the same.
And so what does this piece of cloth mean?
You know yeah until somebody comes with a
(07:04):
gun and tells you you gotta move yeah nobody
told me and many of the
native tribes were nomadic usually moved in moved from winter quarters and spring
and summer quarters and so you know a lot of times they would leave for the
winter and show up and there's people living in their summer area and vice versa
(07:25):
but they also understood trade they They understood trade routes.
They understood the idea of commerce.
It was an ancient concept. Like the French said, hey, we're here to buy stuff.
Really? What's buying stuff?
You know, they already knew that you traded with people and you made certain
(07:45):
goods here and traded certain goods there, you know, for hundreds and hundreds
of years they've been doing that.
So I guess coming back to Kamala.
Yeah. I don't know. We got a field there.
Yeah, well, not really. Because, I mean, what we're talking about is this,
is the idea that the concept of.
(08:09):
Nationality, racial identity, the idea of classifying and codifying and putting
people into political and geographical groupings is limited in its usefulness.
In terms of the ability to
(08:31):
perform the job of president or administrative task or addressing questions
of the future or any of the things that we're really asked to think about when
we're choosing somebody to lead a nation.
And it's sort of interesting to have that in bold relief.
(08:58):
The idea of, you know, make America great again is the idea of restoring the order of this group,
when this group of people ran things in the way they ran it based upon their cultural superiority.
And now we're looking at a question of redefining the American culture as not
(09:22):
being the culture of one particular group,
but being an admixture of all of these groups that happen to cohabit this space at this time.
So it could be what's happening, you know, I always try to look at it,
what's trending, as they like to say.
I think a kind of a separation is trending,
(09:45):
and so this is going to be a furtherance Of that, that the Trump.
Feeling that of these people that make America great again, probably assumes
that before America was together,
it was Norman Rockwell, and we all fought on the same side, and we believed
(10:05):
in the same things, and we sought the same ends, et cetera. And that's no longer true.
And so I think a lot of people are perceiving that.
And so Kamala Harris represents a continued dissolution of the central social
compact if that's the right term to apply to it.
(10:28):
So that from here forth, because my opinion, and it's kind of ridiculous to
do it, but I believe the election's already over.
I think Trump understands that he's a failed, he's failing, and he's going to
fail again, and the people around him know that he's going to fail again, yet again.
I mean, this is what they say about the The sign of insanity is trying the same
(10:52):
thing over and over again with the same result.
Trump is insanity. He's the insanity of the right.
And so we're going to have an opportunity for the Republicans who may actually
seek a unifying vision for the country, as do the Democrats, for sure.
But just in a different, more balanced, the whole thing being more balanced
(11:14):
perspective, whereas Trump's just kind of off his rocker, right?
I think it's over, but to the people who support Trump and this idea of make
America great again, they see Kamala as a chaotic response.
Now, Oklahoma is just going to have to go ahead and not be in the Americans
(11:37):
anymore in their head, and Florida, et cetera, so that there's going to be a more balkanized.
Country. I think Harris is going to win.
She's going to do just like it's going to be in some ways an Obama 2.0.
(11:59):
I think that's what's happening in the press right now, in the media.
They're giving her a certain amount of passing. And that's not a bad thing.
That's actually a good thing.
It's like saying, hey, let's go ahead and print these new dollar bills because
Trump is a failure And I think people are beginning to understand that.
(12:21):
It's a failed model of governance.
Well, you know, I agree, but I think there's a—and the way they're framing it,
the way they framed it at the convention, the Democrats framed it at the convention
as, you know, we're not going back.
Right. You know, that's the past and the other's the future.
(12:41):
But, you know, there's a thing called neuroplasticity, the ability for people's
brains to evolve, reshape.
It's like when you study a new language, all of a sudden you're using different
parts of the brain that you haven't used, etc.
I think that once people become accustomed to, particularly Harris,
(13:04):
as president, and they see a different model for what a president can be, they will understand.
Connect to the things that are familiar, that work in their mind.
So the sort of common sense approach, the sort of plain spoken nature of her
(13:28):
address and motive address.
And they'll find a way to accept her and work with her.
Even the folks in Oklahoma. I think that the obstacle has been Trump and his
sort of recalcitrance that allows other people to feel comfortable in their own recalcitrance.
(13:54):
And there will always be there's always been a group of people who,
have are unyielding in
their belief in white male supremacy whether they're
conscious of it or not but there's a
lot of people who just go along because it's what
(14:16):
they're familiar with and what they know and maybe that I think that I think
that the fact that she was even a candidate for vice president is a result of
the earlier success of Obama,
and the success of Obama is due to the earlier success of John Kennedy.
(14:42):
The idea of what a president is, the neuroplasticity in the brains of Americans,
has evolved to the point that the president is no longer necessarily a fat guy with whiskers.
(15:03):
Yeah. And in fact, she's a woman at a time of abortion rights being reeled backwards.
I think that's, I got to feel that's a massive part of what's going on here.
And the young people are pissed off just in general about everything.
And they were really sad to see Joe Biden, you know, stumbling around airplanes
(15:25):
and helicopters and mumbling through debates.
And when he stepped away, I think
young people just jumped into the vacuum right there and said, oh, man.
Right. And Biden, even if his policies were policies that many young people
(15:47):
were going to support it, his presence, his persona,
just echoed all of the old guys who've been running things forever.
And you know the world's different in
this way too i think people have become accustomed
in the last 75 years 100
you know 100 years to the idea that that women are the intellectual equals of
(16:09):
men and that they can work and that they that they can lead and run things and
this is this is It's only 100 years since women have gotten the right to vote.
True that. You know? Yeah, yeah.
And so brains have definitely moved around and adjusted, and that seems like
(16:32):
a long time in a lifetime of a person, but it's a short time in the history of a culture.
It's a blink of an eye in the history of a culture.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and women are in the, as power figures are in the ascendant.
(16:52):
And I think in, in, in the general population, I can't speak.
I mean, tech obviously has this particular, you know, tech bro culture,
but the audience, you know, and the people who engage in the consumerist world
and have the jobs and get through college has been increasingly female.
(17:17):
And so I think the idea, one thing to note is that I think Harris has studiously
avoided any real mention of race or cultural change.
She's trying to present herself as a leader who deserves to be there,
not as someone trying to break.
(17:39):
I mean, I know they've talked about the glass ceilings, et cetera, but she's kind of,
avoided directly dealing in those, in that currency.
And I think that's smart because if you just ignore it to a certain extent,
you're acknowledging that it just doesn't matter anymore.
(17:59):
Ultimately, that's the best way to perceive something.
Really, are we still talking about that? You know, that kind of thing.
And so, you know, in her convention speech, she talked about her parents and
immigrants, which is important because what she's saying is,
I recognize the power of immigrants to this country.
They're trying to put on her this mantle of failing with immigrant, with immigration.
(18:23):
As you say, I'm literally the high functioning result of immigrant immigration
of, you know, and you can parse out the idea of, well, legally or not legally or whatever,
but it's all the same ultimately to people.
I think there there's, It's hard to make an argument except that on a bar room
(18:48):
with a beer in your hand, the difference between someone coming here illegally
and someone coming here illegally.
Everybody wants to come here because it's a great country.
And we have a broad spectrum of peoples, unlike most nations.
And I think that's right. I think that's right.
And the funny thing is, again, people can walk into your garden.
(19:10):
They have two different concepts of immigration.
They have the racist fear that the people who are coming are people who are
in some way bringing danger and disease.
And they're bringing danger and disease because they're coming from the third world,
and the third world is associated with all of these deep problems and the sense
(19:39):
of the cultural superiority of the Western and European world over the non-Western world.
Having said that, though, people also carry on the other side the idea that
they have an admiration for the people who come come and made tremendous success
(20:03):
in this country and brought new skills and new talents.
And most people have some direct experience with immigrants that's positive and affirmative.
And so they have to reconcile in their own mind the idea that maybe they're
(20:25):
not really anti-immigration, that they are anti-criminal,
and that to the extent that.
Trump has been able to conflate criminality with immigrants.
He's been able to make immigration the bugaboo.
But we actually have been able to sustain historically large waves of immigration.
(20:53):
And we've even required and needed it. Texas and California could not have grown
without the large waves of immigration from the global south.
The whole agricultural development of California was dependent upon it.
The whole general development of the southwest was dependent upon immigration
(21:16):
from Mexico and Central America.
And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how it goes.
Let me throw in also a distinction that just occurred to me is that in America,
if you see somebody who can't speak English making your bed in a hotel,
your reaction is not, oh, there's a lowly servant who will always be a lowly servant.
(21:43):
Servant your initial you know the true
american response is good luck you know
i know that you're first generation and i
bet your kids i hope they get a good
education and they'll learn how to speak english and that one day they'll be
president united states that are we are you know the american a healthy american
(22:04):
attitude towards the immigrant is aspirational you know pat on the back Good
luck to you. Whereas in many cultures.
People are brought in just as servants and then taken Palestinians,
Pakistanis, or you see that Filipinos, you know, go to places like Singapore and Kuwait.
(22:26):
I'm just picking randomly in my mind, but I know some of these cultures invite and give them visas,
but they're never, ever going to rise up in the society if they certainly will
never be, you know, members of the society or they'll just be hired.
And so in America, we provide for that whole thing.
(22:51):
And there's something about feeling overwhelmed possibly that's going on at this point.
And as you said, this has happened before.
We've dealt with massive waves of immigrants who crowded the the cities with
their jumble of languages and their weird smelling food and their crazy religious ideas.
(23:13):
And we're like, who the hell are these people? And let's throw them out.
I mean, Germans and Jews and Poles and Italians and Irish, you name it, right?
So anyway, that just was occurring to me.
So part of our reaction to these immigrants is we want to be able to tell them, Welcome.
(23:34):
Hello. Thank you. And good luck.
And they're piling across. There's this idea that they're piling across the
border in an uncontrolled sort of free for all.
And that's scary. And that's uncertain.
But that's Congress's fucking job.
(23:54):
And if they would just do their job, everybody, you know, this thing would start
to settle itself at this point in the world.
And again, the reason they don't do the job is because they can use it as a way to stir people up.
As long as the problem exists and they can blame it on somebody else.
(24:16):
Then they can use it as a way to build support.
That was the same way they used civil rights in the old days in the South.
They would make people afraid of what would happen if there was something resembling
(24:37):
equity among races, that they would somehow be losing out.
And it's a shame that people rely upon that divisiveness as a rallying point,
you know, trying to find a scapegoat to organize a community.
(25:00):
But, you know, the needle turns and it points at somebody else.
And maybe we'll not have immigration be the bugaboo, and they'll find some other
way to organize it, some other way to scare people.
Well, but before we would go, I would like to get, even if we just kind of kept
(25:22):
the theme of our show going along this, which is black-white relations in America,
which is where the fascination for me is for sure, is that what it also occurs
to me as we're talking about this, that throughout all of this journey,
this country rising and falling, immigration,
et cetera, black Americans have been here.
(25:45):
You know, African-Americans have been in this society since the get-go,
and way before the get-go, if you're talking about certain dates on a calendar.
And so...
So what's a thing to say about that, about the black response to— I know it's a gigantic thing.
(26:09):
I'd be like saying, okay, let's do a whole encyclopedia.
But I think you're hitting on the key demographic point.
The majority of black immigration, if you want to call it immigration,
to the United States ends in
the 1840s and 50s. when the slave trade is finally, you know, diminished.
(26:29):
And if you want new slaves, you have to breed them.
And so as a result, almost all black Americans at least can trace their history 150 years.
And whereas white Americans, there's a success of waves of immigration.
And as time goes on, the black Americans will continue to be,
(26:52):
The agro is one of the oldest cohorts.
There will certainly be the folks who can trace themselves back to the Mayflower
or whatever, that tiny, tiny group.
People in isolated areas of the Appalachian area or whatever,
(27:15):
where there's been a lack of demographic change.
But aside from those groups, everybody else will have been a newer American,
or their families will have been newer Americans.
So there's going to be a deep irony in this idea of who are the foundational
(27:39):
Americans, who are the real Americans, and all the rest of it.
But as time goes on, there'll be more and more and more the notion that black
families will have a longer tradition and connection to the space.
Now, that doesn't mean very much, ultimately, because ultimately it's every
(28:04):
individual's experience in their community and the way in which people interact.
But to the extent that the historical connection is a psychological value,
there will be a greater sense that African Americans will be able to say,
(28:27):
well, we've been here forever.
Not forever, but longer than anybody else.
For sure. And as black Americans have been relocating from the North into the
South in recent decades, probably,
but certainly reaching quorum levels of, you know, so I think Georgia is starting
(28:51):
to turn, change politically, etc. et cetera.
Henry Louis Gates sets up a world.
Do you ever watch that show? Yeah. Finding Your Roots. Wonderful show.
It's very, what's the word? It's very, not progressive is the word I'm looking for.
It's subversive. It has a real interesting subversive quality to it, a real value in there.
(29:16):
It's very benign seeming, but the scientific And I guess to cut this comment
short is that DNA will allow stories to be developed and told where,
you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, you just wouldn't be able to do it because of
the way the records are built.
(29:37):
You know, where you have slaves by single names or just even just barest descriptions.
And so you can start to, through DNA, look back and find localities and track things up.
That'll become more and more sophisticated. and because
ultimately i will always believe this
(29:57):
is that a story is what everybody wants to be
able to tell about themselves of some
type where'd you come from who are you where
are you and i i hope that's a a permanent aspect
of being human is is your story and the stories that people will tell Whether
they're racialized or nationalized or in some way connected to ethnicity or
(30:23):
not, those stories will...
Help us sort of rejigger our notion who makes up the community and what are
the real elements in the studio.
Yeah. There's something...
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, no, no. I was going to do a tangent,
(30:48):
so finish up. Yeah, so was I.
I was going to just refer to another larger than reality subject of meaning,
of wanting to provide meaning.
And so I would say something, one thing I don't want to do in our discussions
about the Trump versus the Harris and et cetera,
(31:08):
is that I want to give a nod to the concerns of a great swath of Americans who
feel the country slipping away from them,
feel their meaning going away and that they're grasping for that meaning.
And it's dissolving. And unfortunately, social media is one of the prime diffusive effects on this.
(31:38):
It scatters the mind.
It scatters the experience. It doesn't. It chops it up in tiny tiny little pieces
and serves it to you like brain potato chips of various,
trying to find out what keeps you on longer and what keeps you connected longer
without it telling any real story.
It just kind of makes, whenever I do it, I always kind of feel demeaned and lesser than.
(32:04):
And it's, so there's some addictive quality to a negative experience in America.
And so, So, and my thing I was told my son the other day, this is like a comedy
line I've been working on, which is,
you know, white men are on their way out and somebody just needs to show them the exits.
(32:28):
That Trump is not the way out You're declining,
You're being moved to the fringes Or the edges of things That's just the nature
of reality You're no longer the prime minister.
Person you you know and so but how to
(32:50):
how do i get out of here like you know so i always
think of you know things like q anon
and and and the proud boys
and all this stuff this these are these are panicked people responding with
a sense of autonomy and agency and trying to express it and it's just all wrong
(33:11):
ultimately yeah i think you've hit the nail on the head the question is what next?
There's been this sense of identity as to, you know, this is what it is to be a bro.
And now what am I supposed to do?
Am I, you know, what do I keep, what do I discard in terms of my identity?
(33:36):
And it's neuroplasticity again.
Maybe it's an opportunity for people, maybe it's an opportunity for people to
not assume an identity, not to live a stereotype, but to develop their own individual admixture,
which is sort of a higher-level being here.
(33:58):
So you can like to cook, and you can also like football, and you can be for a community.
You can volunteer at your kid's school as well as ride a motorcycle,
and that there's no disconnect,
(34:21):
that you make up your own definition as to what it means to be a man,
what it means to be an American, and to the extent that it's important to have
ethnicity, what it means to be white.
I don't know, you know, and this is sort of maybe the sense of resentment that
(34:47):
maybe a lot of particularly white men have,
which is black men get to be black men and they get to, you know,
put on that suit and that identity.
And it's like an identity that is approved and celebrated and venerated.
But white men don't get to be white men because historically,
(35:09):
you know, so the challenge is to say that if it's important in any way to define
oneself culturally in that way,
than find positive aspects of that and support it in a way that doesn't hurt others.
(35:35):
And here's the other irony is that, again, it's like the Jewish thing.
Blacks are not a race.
It's not a question of color. It's a question of culture. and the whole idea
of the Jewish race, it's not the Jewish race, it's a Jewish culture.
(35:56):
And it's because there's so much in the marriage within the Jewish faith that
people conflate the two.
But it's a culture. And you can celebrate positive aspects of the culture.
So if there's a culture that white men can celebrate, then they need to identify
what are the positive aspects of that culture and then celebrate them.
(36:21):
But ironically, I don't think it's a racial thing.
I think that we ought to slice the pie a little differently and white men ought
to think of themselves more as in different tribal groupings,
whether it's the tribal groupings that you have in college, You know, the athlete, the nerd,
(36:43):
the, you know, whatever, or rethink the whole idea and not make white necessarily the...
The first identifier. Yeah, well, among whites in that regard,
you know, I'm always interested in somebody who's Jewish.
(37:05):
Are you white or are you Jewish?
And I assume the answer is depends, you know.
And so if you take what you're trying to do, you're saying, okay,
let's go ahead and allow a cultural separation so that we can find the heart of whiteness.
And Martin Maul did some of this hilariously and brilliantly a long time ago
(37:29):
and did a fantastic job of it.
Even Woody Allen stepped into the world in a minute in one of his movies where
he gets mayonnaise and a cross and he tries to – he's making right with Jesus
or something because, you know, I forget what the whole scene is, but it's short.
Anyway, that sort of brilliant take on it, that effort,
(37:49):
which is casting about right but if you
take a group of white guys and you go who are you you
know a couple of them are going to go i'm actually jewish
and say okay well then you can leave and then you know you know i'm irish baby
i'm i'm from new york i'm irish i'm and okay so you're you're gone so you're
not claiming your whiteness anymore you're claiming some kind of ethnicity and cultural ethnicity.
(38:16):
So you can leave the room.
And I'm Irish. We like to fight and drink, and we're Irish. I come from Irish.
People are going to claim, as you say, and rightly so, a cultural identity fairly quickly.
And so you go, okay, well, you're gone. And so for sure, I don't know what I
(38:38):
am, but I'm about as white American as you can get.
I mean, I am white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Southern Country Club.
But Southern separates you out from the other whites.
Yeah, so who are we left with? Like one guy from Pennsylvania somewhere in a
suburb of Pennsylvania who plays video games and hides in his closet. I don't know.
(39:04):
Tim Walz. Yeah, Tim Walz. Yeah, man. The whitest man on earth.
The heart of the not quite a beast.
The heart of whiteness. I think I wanted to do a show like that.
Affirmative whiteness.
(39:25):
Yeah, yeah. So what are you left with? I think at the end of that separating
out, you would be left with no one, which is kind of fascinating.
You'd have to bring them all back in at some point and go, no, no, no.
You can't claim to be Irish. That doesn't count. You got to get back in there.
(39:46):
Italian, New York, how many?
You've been here too long. Well, I mean, I think it's true in black culture,
too, because when you ultimately look down at each individual,
each individual is going to be so radically different from somebody else.
And you try and find these points of commonality, you know, because,
(40:06):
again, it's this human desire to aggregate, collect, and organize, to classify.
But in practice, there's just your own individual experience.
Yes. All right. Kumbaya that, my friend.
(40:28):
And that's all fascinating. But in that regard, to circle back to something
you talked about, was that white people kind of don't have that.
That white guys don't have that place where they can stand, except with these
Nick Fuentes toxic humans,
(40:49):
the David Dukes, the whole David Duke thing, which is all fake.
And anybody with any sense knows that's not true. That's not real.
That's not a thought to have.
It doesn't work here. If you don't like it, leave.
That's what I always think of these guys. I go, if you don't like this,
if you don't like American society, if you think it's a racially pure situation
(41:13):
that we can somehow get back to or get to, you are in the wrong country.
You've missed your birthright by about 200 or 300 years.
You need to go find some lily white countries like Hungary. Go live in Hungary.
Apparently, that's their thing. They're working on that, you know,
(41:38):
but here we're not, we'd never have been right.
We've been battling our way forward and there's no.
There is no lily-white, wonderful moment of pureness that somehow is achievable by any stretch.
Only small groups of sad men in the back of U-Hauls trying to have a parade.
(42:04):
That's a good point. In other words, that's to be continued.
All right. That was good. I love that image of the guys in the back of U-Hauls.
I'll find just a fantastic YouTube video of some, of, of some guys in khaki
(42:24):
pants and t-shirts, all white guys.
And they're, you know, 22 climbing out of the back of a U-Haul and these guys
in, in middle of Philly going, who are those guys?
And they goes, that's, that's the Patriot front. Oh yeah. Who are they? What do they do?
He goes, well, they think black people, white people shouldn't be together.
So they start punching them it's a mixed race group of fillies they go fuck
(42:48):
them guys and they chase them all back onto the U-Haul,
it's very funny I'll see if I can send that to you the birthplace of America was Philadelphia,
so good yeah we're rambling and,
(43:09):
catch y'all next time alright Thank you.
Music.
Cut out the opening part anyway. Why? The editing, you know,
our jibber-jabber between the beginning, it's just, you know, you just lop it off.
Yeah, I know, I know. Maybe we should just use this as a beginning,
talking about our jibber-jabber because it gives a real feel,
hey, this is Hobart Taylor here. Yeah, Clark Taylor here.
(00:23):
And we do a show called, what's it called, Clark? Rambling Through the Bramble.
And we're going to talk about stuff.
Yes, we are. You know, something that occurred to me yesterday was part of Kamala Harris' appeal.
(00:46):
Not just the fact that she's a South Asian or African American woman.
It's the fact that she's a second-generation American.
And that's a group, a growing group, that doesn't really get acknowledged.
(01:08):
Sometimes people feel like you have to have been here several generations before
you're somehow entitled to the highest office.
And certainly the sense of entitlement that Donald Trump has is possibly born
from the fact that members of his family have been here for a long time and
(01:33):
have been prominent for a long time.
And even in the case of Barack Obama, while his father was an immigrant,
his mother's family goes back in the States for generations.
Buying Kansas stock. Yeah. So she's a true anomaly,
(01:55):
and yet there are a lot of people with that same background,
whose parents came from somewhere else, and whose parents couldn't run for president
because the Constitution requires that you be a natural-born citizen,
but certainly their kids can.
(02:15):
It's something that I think that has been overlooked a lot.
Although her speech at the convention stressed the fact that both of her parents
came here for the unique opportunities that this country provides.
Yeah, that she's the first generation of immigrants, which is one of the centerpieces
(02:39):
of the Republicans' dirt that they have on her.
I mean, they treat everything like it's either got it's gotcha or or something
that, you know, they don't treat it like differences of opinion.
They treat it like, aha, you know.
Yeah, I think my opinion on it is that as soon as she was nominated,
(03:04):
it just it was so unlikely that she would be up for president or be vice president.
Just in the American story, it's unlikely that she would make it to this place in our society.
And so it has the wings of providence on it.
(03:25):
There's no arguing that point because that's what the right would certainly look to.
I mean, they've created a saint out of Donald Trump, impossibly elevated this
man to some kind of religious figure.
And so, of course, she carries that same kind of mantle for them,
(03:49):
whereas you and I can see a clearer path for her.
You know, prosecutor, attorney general in the largest state in the union,
certainly a very powerful position.
And four years as vice president.
You know, I think maybe part of it is assumptions that people have made for
(04:11):
so long, nativist assumptions, and this is not like new.
I mean, this was back in the 1840s and 50s when there were the various anti-immigrant
political parties and movements.
But the sort of nativist assumption that three or four or five generations means
(04:39):
that you are connected to this place in a way that's different from anybody else,
and you have a sort of a different sort of pride of ownership or connection.
And it goes back to the fact that in European countries, people generally,
if you're Italian, you're from Italy, a few people who are second and third
(05:03):
generation, but people didn't move around.
Whereas here there are
like these cohorts these immigrant
cohorts and if you can trace
yourself back to the Mayflower cohort then obviously everything belongs to you
of course we all know the deep irony is that everybody except the Native Americans
(05:31):
in this country is an immigrant So,
in fact, they're all immigrants.
And the claims to land were all specious. They're just made-up maps in some other country.
I did a whole bunch of reading today.
I got into Thomas Jefferson and read Wikipedia at him and just kind of did a
(05:56):
full screen. reading, you know, the whole Louisiana Purchase was this vast area
of land that somehow France.
Had the ability to sell and that the brand-new American nation had the ability
to buy with all these people living on it for thousands of years,
and they just had to tell them, yeah, we just sold your land to another country.
(06:22):
Comprehension was probably zero on that.
Nobody would have any understanding of that until cavalry showed up and started shooting people.
Well, I'll tell you what it is. And one way of thinking of it is this.
Imagine that you live in a place, and one day there's a Fleur de Lis,
(06:43):
and the next day there's a Starz and a Strike.
And, you know, but where your house is, where the creek is, where the mountain
is, where the elk run, those things are the same.
And so what does this piece of cloth mean?
You know yeah until somebody comes with a
(07:04):
gun and tells you you gotta move yeah nobody
told me and many of the
native tribes were nomadic usually moved in moved from winter quarters and spring
and summer quarters and so you know a lot of times they would leave for the
winter and show up and there's people living in their summer area and vice versa
(07:25):
but they also understood trade they They understood trade routes.
They understood the idea of commerce.
It was an ancient concept. Like the French said, hey, we're here to buy stuff.
Really? What's buying stuff?
You know, they already knew that you traded with people and you made certain
(07:45):
goods here and traded certain goods there, you know, for hundreds and hundreds
of years they've been doing that.
So I guess coming back to Kamala.
Yeah. I don't know. We got a field there.
Yeah, well, not really. Because, I mean, what we're talking about is this,
is the idea that the concept of.
(08:09):
Nationality, racial identity, the idea of classifying and codifying and putting
people into political and geographical groupings is limited in its usefulness.
In terms of the ability to
(08:31):
perform the job of president or administrative task or addressing questions
of the future or any of the things that we're really asked to think about when
we're choosing somebody to lead a nation.
And it's sort of interesting to have that in bold relief.
(08:58):
The idea of, you know, make America great again is the idea of restoring the order of this group,
when this group of people ran things in the way they ran it based upon their cultural superiority.
And now we're looking at a question of redefining the American culture as not
(09:22):
being the culture of one particular group,
but being an admixture of all of these groups that happen to cohabit this space at this time.
So it could be what's happening, you know, I always try to look at it,
what's trending, as they like to say.
I think a kind of a separation is trending,
(09:45):
and so this is going to be a furtherance Of that, that the Trump.
Feeling that of these people that make America great again, probably assumes
that before America was together,
it was Norman Rockwell, and we all fought on the same side, and we believed
(10:05):
in the same things, and we sought the same ends, et cetera. And that's no longer true.
And so I think a lot of people are perceiving that.
And so Kamala Harris represents a continued dissolution of the central social
compact if that's the right term to apply to it.
(10:28):
So that from here forth, because my opinion, and it's kind of ridiculous to
do it, but I believe the election's already over.
I think Trump understands that he's a failed, he's failing, and he's going to
fail again, and the people around him know that he's going to fail again, yet again.
I mean, this is what they say about the The sign of insanity is trying the same
(10:52):
thing over and over again with the same result.
Trump is insanity. He's the insanity of the right.
And so we're going to have an opportunity for the Republicans who may actually
seek a unifying vision for the country, as do the Democrats, for sure.
But just in a different, more balanced, the whole thing being more balanced
(11:14):
perspective, whereas Trump's just kind of off his rocker, right?
I think it's over, but to the people who support Trump and this idea of make
America great again, they see Kamala as a chaotic response.
Now, Oklahoma is just going to have to go ahead and not be in the Americans
(11:37):
anymore in their head, and Florida, et cetera, so that there's going to be a more balkanized.
Country. I think Harris is going to win.
She's going to do just like it's going to be in some ways an Obama 2.0.
(11:59):
I think that's what's happening in the press right now, in the media.
They're giving her a certain amount of passing. And that's not a bad thing.
That's actually a good thing.
It's like saying, hey, let's go ahead and print these new dollar bills because
Trump is a failure And I think people are beginning to understand that.
(12:21):
It's a failed model of governance.
Well, you know, I agree, but I think there's a—and the way they're framing it,
the way they framed it at the convention, the Democrats framed it at the convention
as, you know, we're not going back.
Right. You know, that's the past and the other's the future.
(12:41):
But, you know, there's a thing called neuroplasticity, the ability for people's
brains to evolve, reshape.
It's like when you study a new language, all of a sudden you're using different
parts of the brain that you haven't used, etc.
I think that once people become accustomed to, particularly Harris,
(13:04):
as president, and they see a different model for what a president can be, they will understand.
Connect to the things that are familiar, that work in their mind.
So the sort of common sense approach, the sort of plain spoken nature of her
(13:28):
address and motive address.
And they'll find a way to accept her and work with her.
Even the folks in Oklahoma. I think that the obstacle has been Trump and his
sort of recalcitrance that allows other people to feel comfortable in their own recalcitrance.
(13:54):
And there will always be there's always been a group of people who,
have are unyielding in
their belief in white male supremacy whether they're
conscious of it or not but there's a
lot of people who just go along because it's what
(14:16):
they're familiar with and what they know and maybe that I think that I think
that the fact that she was even a candidate for vice president is a result of
the earlier success of Obama,
and the success of Obama is due to the earlier success of John Kennedy.
(14:42):
The idea of what a president is, the neuroplasticity in the brains of Americans,
has evolved to the point that the president is no longer necessarily a fat guy with whiskers.
(15:03):
Yeah. And in fact, she's a woman at a time of abortion rights being reeled backwards.
I think that's, I got to feel that's a massive part of what's going on here.
And the young people are pissed off just in general about everything.
And they were really sad to see Joe Biden, you know, stumbling around airplanes
(15:25):
and helicopters and mumbling through debates.
And when he stepped away, I think
young people just jumped into the vacuum right there and said, oh, man.
Right. And Biden, even if his policies were policies that many young people
(15:47):
were going to support it, his presence, his persona,
just echoed all of the old guys who've been running things forever.
And you know the world's different in
this way too i think people have become accustomed
in the last 75 years 100
you know 100 years to the idea that that women are the intellectual equals of
(16:09):
men and that they can work and that they that they can lead and run things and
this is this is It's only 100 years since women have gotten the right to vote.
True that. You know? Yeah, yeah.
And so brains have definitely moved around and adjusted, and that seems like
(16:32):
a long time in a lifetime of a person, but it's a short time in the history of a culture.
It's a blink of an eye in the history of a culture.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and women are in the, as power figures are in the ascendant.
(16:52):
And I think in, in, in the general population, I can't speak.
I mean, tech obviously has this particular, you know, tech bro culture,
but the audience, you know, and the people who engage in the consumerist world
and have the jobs and get through college has been increasingly female.
(17:17):
And so I think the idea, one thing to note is that I think Harris has studiously
avoided any real mention of race or cultural change.
She's trying to present herself as a leader who deserves to be there,
not as someone trying to break.
(17:39):
I mean, I know they've talked about the glass ceilings, et cetera, but she's kind of,
avoided directly dealing in those, in that currency.
And I think that's smart because if you just ignore it to a certain extent,
you're acknowledging that it just doesn't matter anymore.
(17:59):
Ultimately, that's the best way to perceive something.
Really, are we still talking about that? You know, that kind of thing.
And so, you know, in her convention speech, she talked about her parents and
immigrants, which is important because what she's saying is,
I recognize the power of immigrants to this country.
They're trying to put on her this mantle of failing with immigrant, with immigration.
(18:23):
As you say, I'm literally the high functioning result of immigrant immigration
of, you know, and you can parse out the idea of, well, legally or not legally or whatever,
but it's all the same ultimately to people.
I think there there's, It's hard to make an argument except that on a bar room
(18:48):
with a beer in your hand, the difference between someone coming here illegally
and someone coming here illegally.
Everybody wants to come here because it's a great country.
And we have a broad spectrum of peoples, unlike most nations.
And I think that's right. I think that's right.
And the funny thing is, again, people can walk into your garden.
(19:10):
They have two different concepts of immigration.
They have the racist fear that the people who are coming are people who are
in some way bringing danger and disease.
And they're bringing danger and disease because they're coming from the third world,
and the third world is associated with all of these deep problems and the sense
(19:39):
of the cultural superiority of the Western and European world over the non-Western world.
Having said that, though, people also carry on the other side the idea that
they have an admiration for the people who come come and made tremendous success
(20:03):
in this country and brought new skills and new talents.
And most people have some direct experience with immigrants that's positive and affirmative.
And so they have to reconcile in their own mind the idea that maybe they're
(20:25):
not really anti-immigration, that they are anti-criminal,
and that to the extent that.
Trump has been able to conflate criminality with immigrants.
He's been able to make immigration the bugaboo.
But we actually have been able to sustain historically large waves of immigration.
(20:53):
And we've even required and needed it. Texas and California could not have grown
without the large waves of immigration from the global south.
The whole agricultural development of California was dependent upon it.
The whole general development of the southwest was dependent upon immigration
(21:16):
from Mexico and Central America.
And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how it goes.
Let me throw in also a distinction that just occurred to me is that in America,
if you see somebody who can't speak English making your bed in a hotel,
your reaction is not, oh, there's a lowly servant who will always be a lowly servant.
(21:43):
Servant your initial you know the true
american response is good luck you know
i know that you're first generation and i
bet your kids i hope they get a good
education and they'll learn how to speak english and that one day they'll be
president united states that are we are you know the american a healthy american
(22:04):
attitude towards the immigrant is aspirational you know pat on the back Good
luck to you. Whereas in many cultures.
People are brought in just as servants and then taken Palestinians,
Pakistanis, or you see that Filipinos, you know, go to places like Singapore and Kuwait.
(22:26):
I'm just picking randomly in my mind, but I know some of these cultures invite and give them visas,
but they're never, ever going to rise up in the society if they certainly will
never be, you know, members of the society or they'll just be hired.
And so in America, we provide for that whole thing.
(22:51):
And there's something about feeling overwhelmed possibly that's going on at this point.
And as you said, this has happened before.
We've dealt with massive waves of immigrants who crowded the the cities with
their jumble of languages and their weird smelling food and their crazy religious ideas.
(23:13):
And we're like, who the hell are these people? And let's throw them out.
I mean, Germans and Jews and Poles and Italians and Irish, you name it, right?
So anyway, that just was occurring to me.
So part of our reaction to these immigrants is we want to be able to tell them, Welcome.
(23:34):
Hello. Thank you. And good luck.
And they're piling across. There's this idea that they're piling across the
border in an uncontrolled sort of free for all.
And that's scary. And that's uncertain.
But that's Congress's fucking job.
(23:54):
And if they would just do their job, everybody, you know, this thing would start
to settle itself at this point in the world.
And again, the reason they don't do the job is because they can use it as a way to stir people up.
As long as the problem exists and they can blame it on somebody else.
(24:16):
Then they can use it as a way to build support.
That was the same way they used civil rights in the old days in the South.
They would make people afraid of what would happen if there was something resembling
(24:37):
equity among races, that they would somehow be losing out.
And it's a shame that people rely upon that divisiveness as a rallying point,
you know, trying to find a scapegoat to organize a community.
(25:00):
But, you know, the needle turns and it points at somebody else.
And maybe we'll not have immigration be the bugaboo, and they'll find some other
way to organize it, some other way to scare people.
Well, but before we would go, I would like to get, even if we just kind of kept
(25:22):
the theme of our show going along this, which is black-white relations in America,
which is where the fascination for me is for sure, is that what it also occurs
to me as we're talking about this, that throughout all of this journey,
this country rising and falling, immigration,
et cetera, black Americans have been here.
(25:45):
You know, African-Americans have been in this society since the get-go,
and way before the get-go, if you're talking about certain dates on a calendar.
And so...
So what's a thing to say about that, about the black response to— I know it's a gigantic thing.
(26:09):
I'd be like saying, okay, let's do a whole encyclopedia.
But I think you're hitting on the key demographic point.
The majority of black immigration, if you want to call it immigration,
to the United States ends in
the 1840s and 50s. when the slave trade is finally, you know, diminished.
(26:29):
And if you want new slaves, you have to breed them.
And so as a result, almost all black Americans at least can trace their history 150 years.
And whereas white Americans, there's a success of waves of immigration.
And as time goes on, the black Americans will continue to be,
(26:52):
The agro is one of the oldest cohorts.
There will certainly be the folks who can trace themselves back to the Mayflower
or whatever, that tiny, tiny group.
People in isolated areas of the Appalachian area or whatever,
(27:15):
where there's been a lack of demographic change.
But aside from those groups, everybody else will have been a newer American,
or their families will have been newer Americans.
So there's going to be a deep irony in this idea of who are the foundational
(27:39):
Americans, who are the real Americans, and all the rest of it.
But as time goes on, there'll be more and more and more the notion that black
families will have a longer tradition and connection to the space.
Now, that doesn't mean very much, ultimately, because ultimately it's every
(28:04):
individual's experience in their community and the way in which people interact.
But to the extent that the historical connection is a psychological value,
there will be a greater sense that African Americans will be able to say,
(28:27):
well, we've been here forever.
Not forever, but longer than anybody else.
For sure. And as black Americans have been relocating from the North into the
South in recent decades, probably,
but certainly reaching quorum levels of, you know, so I think Georgia is starting
(28:51):
to turn, change politically, etc. et cetera.
Henry Louis Gates sets up a world.
Do you ever watch that show? Yeah. Finding Your Roots. Wonderful show.
It's very, what's the word? It's very, not progressive is the word I'm looking for.
It's subversive. It has a real interesting subversive quality to it, a real value in there.
(29:16):
It's very benign seeming, but the scientific And I guess to cut this comment
short is that DNA will allow stories to be developed and told where,
you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, you just wouldn't be able to do it because of
the way the records are built.
(29:37):
You know, where you have slaves by single names or just even just barest descriptions.
And so you can start to, through DNA, look back and find localities and track things up.
That'll become more and more sophisticated. and because
ultimately i will always believe this
(29:57):
is that a story is what everybody wants to be
able to tell about themselves of some
type where'd you come from who are you where
are you and i i hope that's a a permanent aspect
of being human is is your story and the stories that people will tell Whether
they're racialized or nationalized or in some way connected to ethnicity or
(30:23):
not, those stories will...
Help us sort of rejigger our notion who makes up the community and what are
the real elements in the studio.
Yeah. There's something...
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, no, no. I was going to do a tangent,
(30:48):
so finish up. Yeah, so was I.
I was going to just refer to another larger than reality subject of meaning,
of wanting to provide meaning.
And so I would say something, one thing I don't want to do in our discussions
about the Trump versus the Harris and et cetera,
(31:08):
is that I want to give a nod to the concerns of a great swath of Americans who
feel the country slipping away from them,
feel their meaning going away and that they're grasping for that meaning.
And it's dissolving. And unfortunately, social media is one of the prime diffusive effects on this.
(31:38):
It scatters the mind.
It scatters the experience. It doesn't. It chops it up in tiny tiny little pieces
and serves it to you like brain potato chips of various,
trying to find out what keeps you on longer and what keeps you connected longer
without it telling any real story.
It just kind of makes, whenever I do it, I always kind of feel demeaned and lesser than.
(32:04):
And it's, so there's some addictive quality to a negative experience in America.
And so, So, and my thing I was told my son the other day, this is like a comedy
line I've been working on, which is,
you know, white men are on their way out and somebody just needs to show them the exits.
(32:28):
That Trump is not the way out You're declining,
You're being moved to the fringes Or the edges of things That's just the nature
of reality You're no longer the prime minister.
Person you you know and so but how to
(32:50):
how do i get out of here like you know so i always
think of you know things like q anon
and and and the proud boys
and all this stuff this these are these are panicked people responding with
a sense of autonomy and agency and trying to express it and it's just all wrong
(33:11):
ultimately yeah i think you've hit the nail on the head the question is what next?
There's been this sense of identity as to, you know, this is what it is to be a bro.
And now what am I supposed to do?
Am I, you know, what do I keep, what do I discard in terms of my identity?
(33:36):
And it's neuroplasticity again.
Maybe it's an opportunity for people, maybe it's an opportunity for people to
not assume an identity, not to live a stereotype, but to develop their own individual admixture,
which is sort of a higher-level being here.
(33:58):
So you can like to cook, and you can also like football, and you can be for a community.
You can volunteer at your kid's school as well as ride a motorcycle,
and that there's no disconnect,
(34:21):
that you make up your own definition as to what it means to be a man,
what it means to be an American, and to the extent that it's important to have
ethnicity, what it means to be white.
I don't know, you know, and this is sort of maybe the sense of resentment that
(34:47):
maybe a lot of particularly white men have,
which is black men get to be black men and they get to, you know,
put on that suit and that identity.
And it's like an identity that is approved and celebrated and venerated.
But white men don't get to be white men because historically,
(35:09):
you know, so the challenge is to say that if it's important in any way to define
oneself culturally in that way,
than find positive aspects of that and support it in a way that doesn't hurt others.
(35:35):
And here's the other irony is that, again, it's like the Jewish thing.
Blacks are not a race.
It's not a question of color. It's a question of culture. and the whole idea
of the Jewish race, it's not the Jewish race, it's a Jewish culture.
(35:56):
And it's because there's so much in the marriage within the Jewish faith that
people conflate the two.
But it's a culture. And you can celebrate positive aspects of the culture.
So if there's a culture that white men can celebrate, then they need to identify
what are the positive aspects of that culture and then celebrate them.
(36:21):
But ironically, I don't think it's a racial thing.
I think that we ought to slice the pie a little differently and white men ought
to think of themselves more as in different tribal groupings,
whether it's the tribal groupings that you have in college, You know, the athlete, the nerd,
(36:43):
the, you know, whatever, or rethink the whole idea and not make white necessarily the...
The first identifier. Yeah, well, among whites in that regard,
you know, I'm always interested in somebody who's Jewish.
(37:05):
Are you white or are you Jewish?
And I assume the answer is depends, you know.
And so if you take what you're trying to do, you're saying, okay,
let's go ahead and allow a cultural separation so that we can find the heart of whiteness.
And Martin Maul did some of this hilariously and brilliantly a long time ago
(37:29):
and did a fantastic job of it.
Even Woody Allen stepped into the world in a minute in one of his movies where
he gets mayonnaise and a cross and he tries to – he's making right with Jesus
or something because, you know, I forget what the whole scene is, but it's short.
Anyway, that sort of brilliant take on it, that effort,
(37:49):
which is casting about right but if you
take a group of white guys and you go who are you you
know a couple of them are going to go i'm actually jewish
and say okay well then you can leave and then you know you know i'm irish baby
i'm i'm from new york i'm irish i'm and okay so you're you're gone so you're
not claiming your whiteness anymore you're claiming some kind of ethnicity and cultural ethnicity.
(38:16):
So you can leave the room.
And I'm Irish. We like to fight and drink, and we're Irish. I come from Irish.
People are going to claim, as you say, and rightly so, a cultural identity fairly quickly.
And so you go, okay, well, you're gone. And so for sure, I don't know what I
(38:38):
am, but I'm about as white American as you can get.
I mean, I am white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Southern Country Club.
But Southern separates you out from the other whites.
Yeah, so who are we left with? Like one guy from Pennsylvania somewhere in a
suburb of Pennsylvania who plays video games and hides in his closet. I don't know.
(39:04):
Tim Walz. Yeah, Tim Walz. Yeah, man. The whitest man on earth.
The heart of the not quite a beast.
The heart of whiteness. I think I wanted to do a show like that.
Affirmative whiteness.
(39:25):
Yeah, yeah. So what are you left with? I think at the end of that separating
out, you would be left with no one, which is kind of fascinating.
You'd have to bring them all back in at some point and go, no, no, no.
You can't claim to be Irish. That doesn't count. You got to get back in there.
(39:46):
Italian, New York, how many?
You've been here too long. Well, I mean, I think it's true in black culture,
too, because when you ultimately look down at each individual,
each individual is going to be so radically different from somebody else.
And you try and find these points of commonality, you know, because,
(40:06):
again, it's this human desire to aggregate, collect, and organize, to classify.
But in practice, there's just your own individual experience.
Yes. All right. Kumbaya that, my friend.
(40:28):
And that's all fascinating. But in that regard, to circle back to something
you talked about, was that white people kind of don't have that.
That white guys don't have that place where they can stand, except with these
Nick Fuentes toxic humans,
(40:49):
the David Dukes, the whole David Duke thing, which is all fake.
And anybody with any sense knows that's not true. That's not real.
That's not a thought to have.
It doesn't work here. If you don't like it, leave.
That's what I always think of these guys. I go, if you don't like this,
if you don't like American society, if you think it's a racially pure situation
(41:13):
that we can somehow get back to or get to, you are in the wrong country.
You've missed your birthright by about 200 or 300 years.
You need to go find some lily white countries like Hungary. Go live in Hungary.
Apparently, that's their thing. They're working on that, you know,
(41:38):
but here we're not, we'd never have been right.
We've been battling our way forward and there's no.
There is no lily-white, wonderful moment of pureness that somehow is achievable by any stretch.
Only small groups of sad men in the back of U-Hauls trying to have a parade.
(42:04):
That's a good point. In other words, that's to be continued.
All right. That was good. I love that image of the guys in the back of U-Hauls.
I'll find just a fantastic YouTube video of some, of, of some guys in khaki
(42:24):
pants and t-shirts, all white guys.
And they're, you know, 22 climbing out of the back of a U-Haul and these guys
in, in middle of Philly going, who are those guys?
And they goes, that's, that's the Patriot front. Oh yeah. Who are they? What do they do?
He goes, well, they think black people, white people shouldn't be together.
So they start punching them it's a mixed race group of fillies they go fuck
(42:48):
them guys and they chase them all back onto the U-Haul,
it's very funny I'll see if I can send that to you the birthplace of America was Philadelphia,
so good yeah we're rambling and,
(43:09):
catch y'all next time alright Thank you.
Music.
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