June 1, 2023 • 33 mins
Mark Miller, host, and Cori Perlander, co-host, speak with Kristy Viers about her YouTube channel and commitment to raising awareness about accessible technology. Learn about:
- How she built a following on social media
- Her informative and educational video tutorials
- How the visually impaired community utilizes accessible technology
- How the braille display improves experiences on iOS devices
- How challenging technology can be when it is inaccessible
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
- [Announcer] Welcome to TPGI's
Real People, Real Stories Podcast.
Where you'll find interestingand diverse stories
from folks working to make theworld a more inclusive place.
(uplifting music)
- Hey, welcome to RealPeople, Real Stories podcast
brought to you by TPGI.
I'm your host Mark Miller thanking you
(00:21):
for helping us keep it accessible.
Do us a favor.
If you're enjoying
Real People, RealStories podcast share it.
Tell someone about it.
Hey, even link to it fromyour accessible website.
Thanks everyone for joining us again.
It's great to be here.
I want to start off byintroducing my co-host
for the first time, Cori Perlander.
(00:45):
Cori and I work together quite a bit
and I'm very excited to have her
doing this podcast along with me.
And then of course, Ialso want to introduce
our great guest today, Kristy Viers.
Did I see your last name right, Kristy?
- Yes, Viers.
- Yes, Viers, okay.
Kristy Viers.
(01:06):
So welcome, Kristy.
How are you?
- Thank you.
I'm doing pretty good, thanks.
How about yourself?
- I'm doing great.
And I just want to say forall of our excited listeners,
when Kristy first came on Iwas really interested in the,
I guess it's a sweatshirt that she has on.
And that's a picture of a cat if you can't
quite see it and it's pretty cool.
It's a big cat head.
(01:27):
And I hear that you're ahuge cat lover, is that true?
- [Kristy] Oh yes, we have three of them.
- Three of them?
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- And they keep youcompany during the day?
- Mmhm, when they're not sleeping.
- When they're not sleeping.
Which if I know cats islike most of the time.
- Yep.
- Sleeping, feeding and pet me.
That's the cats.
(01:47):
- That's the keys, yup.
- Yeah, those are the keys.
But we're not here totalk about cats with you.
You actually did something pretty cool
with your iPhone thatdrew a lot of attention.
You want to tell us a littlebit about what happened there?
- Yeah, it was actuallyone of the coolest things
I think that's everhappened to me honestly.
And I will remember it every single day
(02:09):
from like here on out.
Like it seriously was.
Especially, I'm not saying like I've had
a horrible life and a lot of people have,
but like I've just been througha lot and I think it was one
of the things that just, itkeeps me going, you know?
The fact that it happened to me like that.
It was just overnight, like I...
(02:29):
Like a couple of my close friends
had asked me like how it works.
The whole using an iPhoneand being totally blind,
or if you have some sight, low vision.
But they were interested,
like if they could just send me a link,
like would I be able to open anything?
Like if they just sent me an article
or anything and I said yeah.
(02:50):
Like for the most part as long as like
the Accessibility is in place,
I should be able toaccess anything like that.
So then when I thought aboutit and how much that a lot
of my sighted peers, as well as just
anyone out in the world,I just think like how much
do they actually know aboutthe way screen readers work
(03:15):
and the other, and a lot of things
that the visually impaired community,
like how they do thingsfrom day to day and stuff.
So I just thought what if I just
post this little videoof me literally just
simply explaining like howyou can scroll or swipe
(03:35):
through a document or yoursocial media or whatever.
And then also show like the keyboard,
the braille keyboard for an iPhone anyway,
the braille screen input mode,
how I can type and text andsend posts or anything like that
using that keyboard becausethat keyboard was new to me
(03:57):
because my boyfriend helped me learn it.
And it's just been a godsonlike ever since I started
to use it 'cause itjust changed everything.
It's like I could type way faster
'cause I know braille and stuff, so.
Yeah.
- That's awesome.
So this is what strikesme about this story,
and Cori maybe you can relate, right?
(04:19):
Because Kristy, Cori and I spend all day,
every day as part of our job
talking to people about accessibility,
about screen readeraccessibility, and you know,
all this technical stuffand all this strategy
and hey, you're a big company,
how do you make your websitesaccessible and all that.
(04:42):
And there's training, right?
But you're, like, I love the every day,
you know, you're a person.
Like I mean we're allregular people, right?
- [Kristy] Right.
- But you're just somebody who'sworking through their life.
You've got a group of friends,your friends are like hey,
we're curious, which by theway, kudos to your friends.
(05:03):
Because I think that that sounded like,
like what great friends.
They obviously soundedlike everything was done
in a super respectful way and they were
genuinely curious andthey kind of wanted you
to open up your world andshow them what it was like.
Probably because they're friends
and want to know more about you.
And then that just sparked this like,
(05:25):
almost like innocent idea of like hey,
well I don't know if I'll,
I don't know if you've revealed that yet,
but it's an idea of like hey, let's,
maybe I should do somethingand post it, right?
Is that essentially what happened?
- Yeah, and I literally just thought,
I mean it's just gonna be out there.
I didn't expect anything to happen.
I posted on my Facebook and Idon't have that many friends.
(05:47):
I have a lot of family and stuff on there.
People I've known for a longtime, but then on Twitter
I barely know any of that audience
except for like I've gottento know a few people,
like from listening to different podcasts
that are out there forour community and other
communities like visually impaired.
You know, like autism and justa lot of different, you know,
(06:11):
a lot of different podcasts out there
for people with different needs and stuff.
Where was I going with that though?
- You were just talkingabout posting the video
and kind of like just putting it
up there for the heck of it.
Not really expecting-
- Yeah!
- A whole lot and having, yeah.
And it doesn't sound like you had
like a big deep, same with me, right?
(06:31):
You don't have a bigdeep Twitter following
or anything that wouldcause it to catch on.
- And then I actually got to know
a few people in the visually impaired
blind community after that really well
because like we stayed intouch like once they...
You know, I just, you know, like I'll be
on their podcast or something like that.
(06:51):
So there's a couple of peoplethat I've stayed friends with
after that, you know, thatI have that connection with.
So that's kind of cool thatcame out of it as well.
- So Cori, you must usean iPhone as well, right?
- I do.
I totally do.
- And do you have likeyour friends and family,
are they ever like how do you do this?
- I was actually admiringyour friends, Kristy,
(07:14):
'cause I'm like man,why doesn't anybody else
over here want to know what I'm doing?
No.
I do have some family members for sure.
Some friends that really get interested.
My husband, he likes technology,
so anytime I learn somethingnew I have to show him,
like this is really cool, lookhow much time it saved me.
(07:36):
But in general I feel like.
We're pretty awesomebecause we can, you know-
- I'm sorry to interrupt you, Cori,
but we should say forthe sake of the audience.
Because I know it can behard to tell over Zoom
that Cori, you're also blind, right?
Or very low vision, right?
- Oh yeah.
(07:57):
- I'm the only, I'm the one,I'm the odd person out here.
I'm the one person with sight.
We were joking before thatthey had me outnumbered
because I'm the only one who's sighted
and I'm also the only guy, so.
(Kristy laughs)
- Yeah, that's-
- They might just pick onme a little bit, you know?
Who knows.
- [Cori] Double whammy.
- Yeah, so go ahead.
I didn't want-
(08:17):
- That's a good point.
I didn't do a lengthy intro,
but yes, I have super low vision.
I use JAWS and Zoom Text asmy go-to technologies and,
you know, for my iPhoneI use the voiceover.
And, you know, I can sharethat just from my perspective,
(08:38):
losing vision rapidly andhaving to learn new technology
in a very short window of time when you're
dealing with so many other things.
It's quite a task.
And so, you know, we have tolearn things a different way.
But once you get it I think it's
really powerful and itallows independence.
(09:00):
And that's of course onlyif things are accessible.
But I was just saying we'reawesome, meaning that, you know,
we were able to adapt and,you know, use technology
in a different way thata lot of people don't.
And, you know, get to, we may not get
to the finish line the sameway, but we absolutely do.
(09:21):
- So one of the things that'sreally interesting to me,
like just hearing you talk, Cori,
and Kristy hearing yourstory, Kristy I'm gonna
make a a guess here andyou tell me if I'm wrong.
Have you been, wereyou blind or low vision
at birth or have you beenthat way for a while?
Because you said you know braille.
And I find that usuallymeans you were at least blind
at a young age if you'rereally proficient in braille.
(09:43):
Not always.
- That's the case though.
- That's the case, so I wonder, it's...
- I don't know braille.
- Yeah, it's interesting because-
- [Kristy] I have aBraille display now too.
- [Cori] Awesome.
- So it's nice to hook that
to my iPad or my phone or something.
- So, and what that means is that this,
(10:04):
it's not just thatyou're typing in braille,
it's that you can read what'son the iPhone in braille?
Is that right?
- Yeah, whatever's on your screen.
- [Mark] Shows up in braille.
- It'll be on the display, yep.
- Wow.
And that's a little bit different...
So just one of the things Iwanted to point out just having
you both on the podcast at thetime is just the difference
(10:25):
in like the challenges or whatever,
the ways that you have to approach things
if you're blind early on in life
versus lose your vision over time.
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- And become blind or lowervision, you know, later in life.
And that the use oftechnology actually shifts
because it's almost likelearning a language.
(10:46):
Like when you're a kidversus an adult, you know?
Sometimes it just cantake a little bit more
or you do something differently.
- Oh, I have a question, Kristy.
What was your first touch of technology?
Assisted technology.
What was it and how did you use it?
- It might have beenthe braille light maybe.
(11:06):
- Okay.
- [Mark] The braille light?
- And my braille display that I have now
kind of reminds me of that.
Like the shape of it and the plastic feel.
And the way the dots pop up
it reminds me so muchof the braille light.
It's just way smaller.
- Well can you explainwhat the braille light is?
- The braille light was something,
(11:27):
it had the six stat keys like you would
for braille and you could type on it.
And the main function I believewas you could save files,
like if you were writing aWord document, and you can just
save a whole bunch of files in there.
And then you can plug itinto a printer and print off
your work, so I'd use it a lot in school.
(11:48):
- So it was kind of like a Word processor
but structured aroundbraille versus keyboard?
- Yeah.
- And that braille is like refreshable,
like they're dots thatpop up and down so you can
read with it as well as type with it.
Oh that's really cool.
- And the braille display I have
also has buttons just like it
(12:08):
so I can type on it as well,like use it as a keyboard.
- So it's just an extension of that
original technology, it sounds like.
It's does even more.
Yeah, that's cool.
Technology is always evolving.
- [Kristy] Yes it is.
- So I think this is really cool.
We have this world like, you know,
that we all use ourphones, our technology.
(12:33):
But the way that you interact with it
is different than the way you, Kristy,
the way that you interactwith it is different
than the way I interact with it For sure.
Even different probably thanthe way Cori interacts with it
just because of yourdifference in experience.
And then you have thiskind of like just thought
(12:53):
out of nowhere to share someof that with whomever's willing
to look at your Twitter accountand your Facebook account.
And even though you don'thave this big, you know,
it doesn't sound like youspent your life on social media
and develop this hugefollowing or anything.
It's just sort of a regular
everyday few people on it account.
(13:13):
It blows up when you post it.
- Yeah.
(laughs)
- It goes insane.
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- So what, can you talk to me about like,
like do you have anyidea how that happened?
I mean like was it a few of your friends?
- It was literally overnight though.
- "Check out my friend"and it went further?
Like how did it happen?
- I honestly, I don't know.
My boyfriend thinks that somebody
(13:34):
that is a very well knownperson may be out there
in the tech world or something like that.
That maybe they're theones who started it.
Maybe they had a big followingand it just took off.
I don't, honestly I do not know.
All I know is I did thevideo, it was late, you know.
It was like 10 or 11 at night or whatever.
- Uh-huh.
- And like I remember we're going to bed.
(13:56):
And then I woke up the nextmorning to my boyfriend
asking me what is going on with your iPad?
And I'm like what do you mean?
He's like that thing has been
making noise nonstop all morning.
And I'm like what?
He's like I've been hearing it.
It's like doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo,doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo
like over and over and over, like every,
like it was just going crazy.
- Like a slot machine.
(14:16):
- [Mark] Oh my gosh.
- And then I hear it and I'm like
what in the world is that?
So we look and that's what we figured,
then he goes your Twitter blew up.
And I was like what?
He was like that video went viral.
Like people are going nuts.
And so I had to actuallyturn everything off.
Like my iPad and my AppleWatch and everything
'cause it killed mybattery on my Apple Watch.
And like everything.
(14:37):
Like I just had to, because it was,
and then my boyfriendhad to help me go through
and answer a bunch ofquestions that people
were asking me 'cause it was so much.
it reminded me of like, Iget why people that are like
famous or people that havelike a huge following,
why they probably have someonehired to help them with that.
- Yeah.
- [Mark] Right.
(14:57):
- RI was just gonna ask how has
your life changed sinceyou posted the video?
- So the battery life has changed
'cause it's not as good as it used to be.
- (laughs) Yeah.
- But yes. How has your life changed?
- It feels really cool.
I feel like a whole lotof people saw my face.
(15:17):
so it just feels weird and kind of cool.
Like wow, that's cool.
Like it happens to a lot of people, sure,
but it was so unexpected, honestly.
It was incredible honestly.
- So it's a little-
- Everyone knows how it works now.
A lot of people know now how that works.
- But you feel like you've kind of had
a brush with some level of fame?
(15:41):
I guess like the AndyWarhol 15 minutes of fame.
You've definitely squarelyfound your 15 minutes of fame.
- And maybe it won't be 15, Mike.
- [Mike] I was gonna say.
- She might keep doing this.
- So that was my question.
Now that you're a big dealinfluencer, what next?
- I took a break from my YouTube channel
(16:02):
for a few different reasons,
but I really do want to get back into it,
but I just need to get more-
- Maybe this the world telling you
that you need to get back into it.
- How long ago-
- [Cori] They want to hear what you say.
- Yeah, 'cause when Isaw your podcast invite
I was like oh my gosh, that's so cool.
- See?
This is just anotherconsequence of celebrity, right?
(16:23):
- I guess.
No, just kidding.
(Mark laughs)
- You should have seen,the listeners have no idea,
the writer that she gave us.
We had to separate all the M&Ms out
into their different colors.
No, I'm just kidding.
So how long ago did youpost this video, Kristy?
(16:44):
- Wow.
How many years has it been?
Has it been like two or three years now?
- Has it?
- Yeah, it hasn't been too long, but.
- And do you still gettraction on it or is it-
- Sometimes.
Once in a while I'll see people posting it
on my Twitter and once in awhile it will go up again.
Like a whole bunch in one day.
(17:05):
Like someone just saw itand decided to post it
and then other people started doing it
and once in a while it will do that.
- It kind of has a re-life.
- Revive.
- Yeah, a couple waves now and again.
And then once in a while it'llbe like one or two people
or they'll like it or somethingor they'll say something.
And a lot of times I feel bad because
sometimes it's languages I don't know.
(17:26):
And it's like if I don'tknow how to translate it.
- No, that's interesting that it's
really hit different languages.
- Yeah.
- So did you do any follow-upposts after that initial post?
- I did videos on how touse braille screen input
for iPad 'cause it'ssimilar to the iPhone.
(17:47):
It's pretty much the same thing.
So I did that right away after.
To explain those how to do it.
I actually had a mom reach out to me
and told me hersix-year-old knows how to do
braille screen input now because of me.
Like she figured it outand helped him learn it.
- So was it, did the six-year-old
have a vision impairment or was it just,
was it a sighted secure all that was like-
(18:08):
- I don't know to the extentwhere on the spectrum he was.
Like if he's totally blind or partially
or anything like that, but she just said
now he knows how to do it andhe's happy to have that, so.
- That's awesome.
- [Kristy] Like at six,that's pretty good!
- That's awesome.
So they got sometraction, these new video,
(18:29):
but not quite the sameas that original one.
- Yes, not the same at all.
- I wonder what it wasabout that original video.
- It was so - I didn't even plan it.
Like we just did it.
Like my boyfriend just, andI was like I don't even know
what I'm gonna say, buthere goes, you know?
And then I just did itand I was like nervous
'cause I've never done anything quite
like that and I'm kind of shy anyway.
(18:50):
But yeah.
- That's so cool.
Did you have a question, Cori?
I feel like I jumped in front.
- I just really wouldlove to hear, you know,
this was an initialstepping or starting point
to really just educatethe world about, you know,
(19:10):
how someone who cannotsee uses technology.
If you could tell the world right now,
like what do you wantthem to know about you
and how you use technologyand how they can help?
- Good question.
- Well.
It's a beautiful thing.
(19:32):
I love that I can do somuch with my phone or iPad
and any other screen reader textings.
Like just knowing, likeKindle, like being able to use,
you know, read booksand YouTube and all the,
I appreciate the factthat the really strong
like company-based like interfaces
(19:54):
out there like Kindle and YouTube
and Apple's got like their video service
where you can, like it'sApple TV+ and stuff,
but I just like, at least I noticed
their Accessibility is way better
as far as like the buttons working
(20:15):
and all of the, like everything,
all the elements in thesite or the app, you know?
- What do you mean by buttons not working?
Can you tell the audience what that means?
- Well I'm not very goodat all the technical part
except I know that thescreen reader needs...
(20:36):
it needs somebody to gothrough like auditing
or like going through and making sure
that they're using whatthey need to make this site
user friendly with the screen reader.
So it's like that every time someone makes
a webpage or an app or anything like that,
(20:58):
of course maintenance goes into it
and so you have to keep it accessible
like every time there's an update too.
- Yeah, you have to label the buttons.
- [Mark] What's your experience?
- I just wish - yes, you have to label
all the buttons and all the elements
and headings and all the structure
in your site to work with a screen reader
and it's so important because I run
into it where they don't work.
(21:19):
A button is not labeledcorrectly so it just says button
or it, you know, you push itand it's like it doesn't work.
I don't understand that.
- Yeah, that's what Iwas gonna ask you is like
what's your experience when you run into
something like a button that doesn't work?
Like how does that affect your-
- Sometimes I turn on voiceover and I try
to use it like that andit doesn't always work.
(21:40):
It's frustrating.
It makes me very, it messes up things
like I missed half of an appointment
yesterday because of it, you know?
- And what happens isyou run into this button
and you know there's a button there?
There's just nothing toconvey what that button does?
- Yeah, it won't click.
So it's-
- That happened to melast night on an app.
I know exactly what you're talking about.
(22:01):
- It's just frustrating and...
Yeah, so there's a definitely a-
- It stops you in your tracks.
- It does.
- And I think today withthe technology where it is,
there's possibilitiesfor it to be accessible.
So just getting theword out and, you know,
educating people on what that looks like.
- Like I wrote in a postyesterday, I know that
(22:22):
this isn't even a thingthat could ever happen,
but I just wish sometimes that there was
no need to make app accessible.
Like I wish that the framework just worked
with whatever the screen reader-
- [Cori] Never say never.
- [Kristy] Huh?
- [Cori] I said never say never, maybe.
- That's a reallyinteresting thought, right?
And it's, I think it'spossible, but it's possible in.
(22:48):
Like policy, in attitude,because no app works
until somebody buildsit and makes it work.
And it could have a bug init that affects everybody.
So you have to look out for-
- That's a very good point, yup.
- And improve it, you know what I mean?
So it's just a matter of going like hey,
we're concerned abouta person who can see,
who can use a keyboard and a mouse
(23:08):
or who can see their phone and see
the touch screen and all that.
We're concerned about whetheror not it works for them.
We just need to also beconcerned whether or not
somebody who's only relying on hearing
and touch and is usinga screen reader or maybe
plugging in a braille displayor something like that.
(23:31):
It just needs to work there too.
Like it's almost anextension versus, you know,
and I think that's where a lot of,
I think you bring upsome really good points
'cause I think a lot of peoplethink of it very separately
and it's like no no no,it's just an extension
of the user experienceyou're trying to create.
- Yeah, and I know forApple they've made screen...
What is it?
It's like a recognition thing?
(23:53):
Screen recognition?
- Mmhm.
- And when you enable it, it helps
with some of the unlabeled elements
like buttons and just different things.
On a site it will-
- [Mark] Some of the screenreaders are getting smarter.
- An image, like a visual, yeah.
- But sometimes itdoesn't work the greatest
because it still I think relies
somewhat on the interface, you know?
(24:16):
I don't know.
So it doesn't always work reliably.
And so it's like I get, Ibet some people are out there
like well they have that cool new feature
in their, you know, with Apple where they,
it'll tell them stuff thatmight not have a label,
but I feel like it doesn't matter.
Like you should never justassume that the screen reader
(24:37):
is gonna be able to just helpwhere there isn't, you know,
I just wish more peoplewould put more effort into
making sure that we're just as much
of a priority being, those of us that use
a screen reader, as anyone else, you know?
That we're not like oh yeah,
we should include them now.
Oops.
- Yep.
That that's well said, andagain, you know, Kristy,
(25:00):
what I really love about thisis that Cori and I are always
kind of marred down in the business
and technical details of all this.
And you're a person that lives outside
of that world that'sjust living your life.
And you have, I'm gonna call it
like a very innocent approach to this.
You're like I just needto use my phone, right?
(25:21):
- Yeah!
Seriously though, that's literally it.
- And I wish everybodywould make it a priority
and it really, you'revery, for me who's always
caught up in this, justhumanizes it very nicely
where it's like look, here'sthis person, you know?
Sitting on their couch.
Just using their phone like everybody
in the world wants to do.
And one, kudos to you forsharing because I think
(25:43):
that the awareness thatthat brings is staggering.
Especially when you get the viral nature
of something like that one video.
- And that's how Ikinda learned more about
how it works with likeinterfaces and like the way
those actually maketheir sites accessible,
like I learned that more about
(26:04):
how important it is and how...
Like I had, you know, once in a while
they'd reach out to me like somebody,
like was wondering abouttheir website or something
and I would like check it for them as much
as I could and like, you know,
and let them know likeit works really well.
I'm not finding any issues
or maybe there is an issue, you know?
(26:25):
- Yeah.
- But just, I'm glad that like people
out there that do thatkind of work that are,
I forget what you call them, like,
just very good with computers and that's
all they do is design apps and stuff.
I'm glad that maybe they saw the swiping
and all the ways that maybe I-
(26:45):
- Absolutely.
- Was able to show so thenthey're like oh, okay.
So we now we get more of an idea
how that works for somebody.
- Yeah.
- It's all awareness, Kristy, right?
And I think that that's whatyou brought to the table here
is for a group of people that may not
have known before andnow they know, you know?
- [Cori] My take - yeah, go ahead.
(27:08):
- I was gonna say tome that's kind of like
the beginning of that wish you made.
Like I wish they didn't haveto think about accessibility.
The flip side of that is if everybody
just understands accessibilityand prioritize it
they don't have to think about it.
It's just part of the waythat they develop something.
And it starts with that kind of awareness
that you created through that one video.
(27:29):
I'm sorry Cori, I sort of-
- No, no, this is a fun conversation.
I was just gonna say that, you know,
the awareness brings knowledgeand now knowledge is power.
And I think for the most part, you know,
humans mean, you know,they want to do well.
They don't know whatthey don't know, right?
People don't know what they don't know.
(27:50):
And when you show a softwaredeveloper how to swipe,
you know, and they realize hey, I can take
just one extra step andthat's gonna make so many
people's lives morefulfilling, more independent.
Just a better user experience.
Let's hope that that'swhat will just continue
to grow through peoplelike yourself, Kristy.
(28:10):
Just getting it out there.
Making it.
- I actually did DoorDash forthe first time the other day.
- Wait a minute, what?
Oh, yourself.
I'm like wait, you drove a car?
(laughs) That is dangerous.
- Yeah!
- She didn't go to work for DoorDash.
She was hungry, Cori.
She was hungry.
- Okay, I'm like wellwe have a problem here.
- But the good news isshe was able to do it.
(28:31):
- Hey, driverless cars, maybe one day.
- I was gonna say did you get one of those
cars that drive you already?
- So I, you know, I think that you make
a really good point, Cori,about people wanting to do it
and I can remember, thiswas about 10 years ago.
I had gone to a technical, like a small
local technical conference and we brought,
(28:53):
we actually were running the conference
and we brought a bunch of different kind
of accessibility thingsand one of them was we just
had a computer there with ascreen reader hooked up to it.
And this was for a group of developers,
like technical developerpeople that were a part
of this group that were coming to this.
And I can remember oneof the UX designers,
the user experience designers,
(29:15):
sitting down like oh, what's this?
And putting on the headphoneswhich was then playing JAWS.
And him navigating the web going to
some of his own thingsthat he had developed.
And just being excited likea kid in a candy store.
And he peeled the headphonesback and turned to us and said
(29:37):
"I had no idea people were trying
"to use my software this way."
And he was a convert at that point.
He was like, his job was user experience
and he wanted every userto experience his software
in a great way, that's what his job was.
All he needed is the awareness, right?
(29:59):
The same type of awareness that, Kristy,
you brought to a bunch of people
through an accidentalviral video, you know?
So I think that that's, you know,
your point's well taken,Cori, that a lot of people
really want to do thatand they want everybody
to be able to have the same experience.
They just need the awareness.
(30:21):
- Understand it, yeah.
- [Mark] Yeah.
- Love it.
- So Cori, do you feelinspired by Kristy here?
Are we gonna see a bunchof videos coming out?
- The difference is I am not an expert
assistive technology user, so yeah,
I could show them theslower paced version of it.
(laughs)
(30:42):
But that's super cool.
- Yeah, I'm sure thatthat'll change for you soon.
Maybe you and Kristy get together
and she gives you pointers and tips.
- There we go.
- [Kristy] That'd be fun with friends.
- Wouldn't it?
- I will definitely followup with you after this.
- So we're coming to the endhere, but is there anything
that either one of you want to want to say
that we haven't gottena chance to say or just
reemphasize before we say bye to everyone?
(31:08):
- I just look forward to thefuture and what it holds.
And I hope that it includesmore accessibility on the web.
That it gets, it just keeps growing
and getting better, you know?
So we don't run into somany issues all the time.
- We need to put you on a rooftop
so you can just scream that.
- I was gonna say ditto!
I couldn't say it better.
(31:28):
- We couldn't say it better.
So Kristy, if people want to find
this video how do they do that?
- I'm on Twitter at, it's @Kristy,
K-R-I-S-T-Y, underscore Viers.
It's V-I-E-R-S.
I'm also on Facebook.
Just Kristy Veers.
(31:49):
I believe it says like Rochester College
and some stuff about me.
It'll say on there thatI, if you type my name,
if you put kristyviers.comit'll, that's another way
to access my YouTube channel 'cause it's
just on its own little webpage thing.
- Nice.
And we'll make sure that we put
(32:09):
all that stuff in the podcast notes
so if you guys want to follow Kristy and-
- And I'm on YouTube of course.
- And you're on YouTube, so, you know,
maybe this podcast is your next step-
- Motivator now.
- To greater fame, so youmight wanna start getting
some videos out there for your fans.
- Yeah, I probably should do that, huh?
(32:31):
- [Cori] You can send this video out.
- We'll be looking for them.
All right, any parting words, Cori?
- Thanks to everyone thatis building and expanding
their digital accessibility efforts.
And like Kristy said, it changes lives.
(32:53):
Not just for individualsusing assistive technology,
but their families too, soit touches so so many people.
More than a lot of people realize
and just want to keep the message going.
- Excellent.
Well thank you both.
Appreciate both of you.
And Kristy, thanks for being on
(33:15):
the podcast and sharing your story.
- Thanks for having me.
- You're welcome.
It's so cool, it gives usall hope that maybe we can
become famous influencerslike you someday.
- [Cori] Yeah.
With just a simple video,unsuspecting video.
Well this is Mark Millerthanking Kristy and Cori
and reminding you allto keep it accessible.
(33:38):
- [Announcer] This podcast hasbeen brought to you by TPGI.
The experts in digital accessibility.
Stay tuned for more
Real People, Real Storiespodcasts coming soon.
(uplifting music)
- [Announcer] Welcome to TPGI's
Real People, Real Stories Podcast.
Where you'll find interestingand diverse stories
from folks working to make theworld a more inclusive place.
(uplifting music)
- Hey, welcome to RealPeople, Real Stories podcast
brought to you by TPGI.
I'm your host Mark Miller thanking you
(00:21):
for helping us keep it accessible.
Do us a favor.
If you're enjoying
Real People, RealStories podcast share it.
Tell someone about it.
Hey, even link to it fromyour accessible website.
Thanks everyone for joining us again.
It's great to be here.
I want to start off byintroducing my co-host
for the first time, Cori Perlander.
(00:45):
Cori and I work together quite a bit
and I'm very excited to have her
doing this podcast along with me.
And then of course, Ialso want to introduce
our great guest today, Kristy Viers.
Did I see your last name right, Kristy?
- Yes, Viers.
- Yes, Viers, okay.
Kristy Viers.
(01:06):
So welcome, Kristy.
How are you?
- Thank you.
I'm doing pretty good, thanks.
How about yourself?
- I'm doing great.
And I just want to say forall of our excited listeners,
when Kristy first came on Iwas really interested in the,
I guess it's a sweatshirt that she has on.
And that's a picture of a cat if you can't
quite see it and it's pretty cool.
It's a big cat head.
(01:27):
And I hear that you're ahuge cat lover, is that true?
- [Kristy] Oh yes, we have three of them.
- Three of them?
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- And they keep youcompany during the day?
- Mmhm, when they're not sleeping.
- When they're not sleeping.
Which if I know cats islike most of the time.
- Yep.
- Sleeping, feeding and pet me.
That's the cats.
(01:47):
- That's the keys, yup.
- Yeah, those are the keys.
But we're not here totalk about cats with you.
You actually did something pretty cool
with your iPhone thatdrew a lot of attention.
You want to tell us a littlebit about what happened there?
- Yeah, it was actuallyone of the coolest things
I think that's everhappened to me honestly.
And I will remember it every single day
(02:09):
from like here on out.
Like it seriously was.
Especially, I'm not saying like I've had
a horrible life and a lot of people have,
but like I've just been througha lot and I think it was one
of the things that just, itkeeps me going, you know?
The fact that it happened to me like that.
It was just overnight, like I...
(02:29):
Like a couple of my close friends
had asked me like how it works.
The whole using an iPhoneand being totally blind,
or if you have some sight, low vision.
But they were interested,
like if they could just send me a link,
like would I be able to open anything?
Like if they just sent me an article
or anything and I said yeah.
(02:50):
Like for the most part as long as like
the Accessibility is in place,
I should be able toaccess anything like that.
So then when I thought aboutit and how much that a lot
of my sighted peers, as well as just
anyone out in the world,I just think like how much
do they actually know aboutthe way screen readers work
(03:15):
and the other, and a lot of things
that the visually impaired community,
like how they do thingsfrom day to day and stuff.
So I just thought what if I just
post this little videoof me literally just
simply explaining like howyou can scroll or swipe
(03:35):
through a document or yoursocial media or whatever.
And then also show like the keyboard,
the braille keyboard for an iPhone anyway,
the braille screen input mode,
how I can type and text andsend posts or anything like that
using that keyboard becausethat keyboard was new to me
(03:57):
because my boyfriend helped me learn it.
And it's just been a godsonlike ever since I started
to use it 'cause itjust changed everything.
It's like I could type way faster
'cause I know braille and stuff, so.
Yeah.
- That's awesome.
So this is what strikesme about this story,
and Cori maybe you can relate, right?
(04:19):
Because Kristy, Cori and I spend all day,
every day as part of our job
talking to people about accessibility,
about screen readeraccessibility, and you know,
all this technical stuffand all this strategy
and hey, you're a big company,
how do you make your websitesaccessible and all that.
(04:42):
And there's training, right?
But you're, like, I love the every day,
you know, you're a person.
Like I mean we're allregular people, right?
- [Kristy] Right.
- But you're just somebody who'sworking through their life.
You've got a group of friends,your friends are like hey,
we're curious, which by theway, kudos to your friends.
(05:03):
Because I think that that sounded like,
like what great friends.
They obviously soundedlike everything was done
in a super respectful way and they were
genuinely curious andthey kind of wanted you
to open up your world andshow them what it was like.
Probably because they're friends
and want to know more about you.
And then that just sparked this like,
(05:25):
almost like innocent idea of like hey,
well I don't know if I'll,
I don't know if you've revealed that yet,
but it's an idea of like hey, let's,
maybe I should do somethingand post it, right?
Is that essentially what happened?
- Yeah, and I literally just thought,
I mean it's just gonna be out there.
I didn't expect anything to happen.
I posted on my Facebook and Idon't have that many friends.
(05:47):
I have a lot of family and stuff on there.
People I've known for a longtime, but then on Twitter
I barely know any of that audience
except for like I've gottento know a few people,
like from listening to different podcasts
that are out there forour community and other
communities like visually impaired.
You know, like autism and justa lot of different, you know,
(06:11):
a lot of different podcasts out there
for people with different needs and stuff.
Where was I going with that though?
- You were just talkingabout posting the video
and kind of like just putting it
up there for the heck of it.
Not really expecting-
- Yeah!
- A whole lot and having, yeah.
And it doesn't sound like you had
like a big deep, same with me, right?
(06:31):
You don't have a bigdeep Twitter following
or anything that wouldcause it to catch on.
- And then I actually got to know
a few people in the visually impaired
blind community after that really well
because like we stayed intouch like once they...
You know, I just, you know, like I'll be
on their podcast or something like that.
(06:51):
So there's a couple of peoplethat I've stayed friends with
after that, you know, thatI have that connection with.
So that's kind of cool thatcame out of it as well.
- So Cori, you must usean iPhone as well, right?
- I do.
I totally do.
- And do you have likeyour friends and family,
are they ever like how do you do this?
- I was actually admiringyour friends, Kristy,
(07:14):
'cause I'm like man,why doesn't anybody else
over here want to know what I'm doing?
No.
I do have some family members for sure.
Some friends that really get interested.
My husband, he likes technology,
so anytime I learn somethingnew I have to show him,
like this is really cool, lookhow much time it saved me.
(07:36):
But in general I feel like.
We're pretty awesomebecause we can, you know-
- I'm sorry to interrupt you, Cori,
but we should say forthe sake of the audience.
Because I know it can behard to tell over Zoom
that Cori, you're also blind, right?
Or very low vision, right?
- Oh yeah.
(07:57):
- I'm the only, I'm the one,I'm the odd person out here.
I'm the one person with sight.
We were joking before thatthey had me outnumbered
because I'm the only one who's sighted
and I'm also the only guy, so.
(Kristy laughs)
- Yeah, that's-
- They might just pick onme a little bit, you know?
Who knows.
- [Cori] Double whammy.
- Yeah, so go ahead.
I didn't want-
(08:17):
- That's a good point.
I didn't do a lengthy intro,
but yes, I have super low vision.
I use JAWS and Zoom Text asmy go-to technologies and,
you know, for my iPhoneI use the voiceover.
And, you know, I can sharethat just from my perspective,
(08:38):
losing vision rapidly andhaving to learn new technology
in a very short window of time when you're
dealing with so many other things.
It's quite a task.
And so, you know, we have tolearn things a different way.
But once you get it I think it's
really powerful and itallows independence.
(09:00):
And that's of course onlyif things are accessible.
But I was just saying we'reawesome, meaning that, you know,
we were able to adapt and,you know, use technology
in a different way thata lot of people don't.
And, you know, get to, we may not get
to the finish line the sameway, but we absolutely do.
(09:21):
- So one of the things that'sreally interesting to me,
like just hearing you talk, Cori,
and Kristy hearing yourstory, Kristy I'm gonna
make a a guess here andyou tell me if I'm wrong.
Have you been, wereyou blind or low vision
at birth or have you beenthat way for a while?
Because you said you know braille.
And I find that usuallymeans you were at least blind
at a young age if you'rereally proficient in braille.
(09:43):
Not always.
- That's the case though.
- That's the case, so I wonder, it's...
- I don't know braille.
- Yeah, it's interesting because-
- [Kristy] I have aBraille display now too.
- [Cori] Awesome.
- So it's nice to hook that
to my iPad or my phone or something.
- So, and what that means is that this,
(10:04):
it's not just thatyou're typing in braille,
it's that you can read what'son the iPhone in braille?
Is that right?
- Yeah, whatever's on your screen.
- [Mark] Shows up in braille.
- It'll be on the display, yep.
- Wow.
And that's a little bit different...
So just one of the things Iwanted to point out just having
you both on the podcast at thetime is just the difference
(10:25):
in like the challenges or whatever,
the ways that you have to approach things
if you're blind early on in life
versus lose your vision over time.
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- And become blind or lowervision, you know, later in life.
And that the use oftechnology actually shifts
because it's almost likelearning a language.
(10:46):
Like when you're a kidversus an adult, you know?
Sometimes it just cantake a little bit more
or you do something differently.
- Oh, I have a question, Kristy.
What was your first touch of technology?
Assisted technology.
What was it and how did you use it?
- It might have beenthe braille light maybe.
(11:06):
- Okay.
- [Mark] The braille light?
- And my braille display that I have now
kind of reminds me of that.
Like the shape of it and the plastic feel.
And the way the dots pop up
it reminds me so muchof the braille light.
It's just way smaller.
- Well can you explainwhat the braille light is?
- The braille light was something,
(11:27):
it had the six stat keys like you would
for braille and you could type on it.
And the main function I believewas you could save files,
like if you were writing aWord document, and you can just
save a whole bunch of files in there.
And then you can plug itinto a printer and print off
your work, so I'd use it a lot in school.
(11:48):
- So it was kind of like a Word processor
but structured aroundbraille versus keyboard?
- Yeah.
- And that braille is like refreshable,
like they're dots thatpop up and down so you can
read with it as well as type with it.
Oh that's really cool.
- And the braille display I have
also has buttons just like it
(12:08):
so I can type on it as well,like use it as a keyboard.
- So it's just an extension of that
original technology, it sounds like.
It's does even more.
Yeah, that's cool.
Technology is always evolving.
- [Kristy] Yes it is.
- So I think this is really cool.
We have this world like, you know,
that we all use ourphones, our technology.
(12:33):
But the way that you interact with it
is different than the way you, Kristy,
the way that you interactwith it is different
than the way I interact with it For sure.
Even different probably thanthe way Cori interacts with it
just because of yourdifference in experience.
And then you have thiskind of like just thought
(12:53):
out of nowhere to share someof that with whomever's willing
to look at your Twitter accountand your Facebook account.
And even though you don'thave this big, you know,
it doesn't sound like youspent your life on social media
and develop this hugefollowing or anything.
It's just sort of a regular
everyday few people on it account.
(13:13):
It blows up when you post it.
- Yeah.
(laughs)
- It goes insane.
- [Kristy] Yeah.
- So what, can you talk to me about like,
like do you have anyidea how that happened?
I mean like was it a few of your friends?
- It was literally overnight though.
- "Check out my friend"and it went further?
Like how did it happen?
- I honestly, I don't know.
My boyfriend thinks that somebody
(13:34):
that is a very well knownperson may be out there
in the tech world or something like that.
That maybe they're theones who started it.
Maybe they had a big followingand it just took off.
I don't, honestly I do not know.
All I know is I did thevideo, it was late, you know.
It was like 10 or 11 at night or whatever.
- Uh-huh.
- And like I remember we're going to bed.
(13:56):
And then I woke up the nextmorning to my boyfriend
asking me what is going on with your iPad?
And I'm like what do you mean?
He's like that thing has been
making noise nonstop all morning.
And I'm like what?
He's like I've been hearing it.
It's like doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo,doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo
like over and over and over, like every,
like it was just going crazy.
- Like a slot machine.
(14:16):
- [Mark] Oh my gosh.
- And then I hear it and I'm like
what in the world is that?
So we look and that's what we figured,
then he goes your Twitter blew up.
And I was like what?
He was like that video went viral.
Like people are going nuts.
And so I had to actuallyturn everything off.
Like my iPad and my AppleWatch and everything
'cause it killed mybattery on my Apple Watch.
And like everything.
(14:37):
Like I just had to, because it was,
and then my boyfriendhad to help me go through
and answer a bunch ofquestions that people
were asking me 'cause it was so much.
it reminded me of like, Iget why people that are like
famous or people that havelike a huge following,
why they probably have someonehired to help them with that.
- Yeah.
- [Mark] Right.
(14:57):
- RI was just gonna ask how has
your life changed sinceyou posted the video?
- So the battery life has changed
'cause it's not as good as it used to be.
- (laughs) Yeah.
- But yes. How has your life changed?
- It feels really cool.
I feel like a whole lotof people saw my face.
(15:17):
so it just feels weird and kind of cool.
Like wow, that's cool.
Like it happens to a lot of people, sure,
but it was so unexpected, honestly.
It was incredible honestly.
- So it's a little-
- Everyone knows how it works now.
A lot of people know now how that works.
- But you feel like you've kind of had
a brush with some level of fame?
(15:41):
I guess like the AndyWarhol 15 minutes of fame.
You've definitely squarelyfound your 15 minutes of fame.
- And maybe it won't be 15, Mike.
- [Mike] I was gonna say.
- She might keep doing this.
- So that was my question.
Now that you're a big dealinfluencer, what next?
- I took a break from my YouTube channel
(16:02):
for a few different reasons,
but I really do want to get back into it,
but I just need to get more-
- Maybe this the world telling you
that you need to get back into it.
- How long ago-
- [Cori] They want to hear what you say.
- Yeah, 'cause when Isaw your podcast invite
I was like oh my gosh, that's so cool.
- See?
This is just anotherconsequence of celebrity, right?
(16:23):
- I guess.
No, just kidding.
(Mark laughs)
- You should have seen,the listeners have no idea,
the writer that she gave us.
We had to separate all the M&Ms out
into their different colors.
No, I'm just kidding.
So how long ago did youpost this video, Kristy?
(16:44):
- Wow.
How many years has it been?
Has it been like two or three years now?
- Has it?
- Yeah, it hasn't been too long, but.
- And do you still gettraction on it or is it-
- Sometimes.
Once in a while I'll see people posting it
on my Twitter and once in awhile it will go up again.
Like a whole bunch in one day.
(17:05):
Like someone just saw itand decided to post it
and then other people started doing it
and once in a while it will do that.
- It kind of has a re-life.
- Revive.
- Yeah, a couple waves now and again.
And then once in a while it'llbe like one or two people
or they'll like it or somethingor they'll say something.
And a lot of times I feel bad because
sometimes it's languages I don't know.
(17:26):
And it's like if I don'tknow how to translate it.
- No, that's interesting that it's
really hit different languages.
- Yeah.
- So did you do any follow-upposts after that initial post?
- I did videos on how touse braille screen input
for iPad 'cause it'ssimilar to the iPhone.
(17:47):
It's pretty much the same thing.
So I did that right away after.
To explain those how to do it.
I actually had a mom reach out to me
and told me hersix-year-old knows how to do
braille screen input now because of me.
Like she figured it outand helped him learn it.
- So was it, did the six-year-old
have a vision impairment or was it just,
was it a sighted secure all that was like-
(18:08):
- I don't know to the extentwhere on the spectrum he was.
Like if he's totally blind or partially
or anything like that, but she just said
now he knows how to do it andhe's happy to have that, so.
- That's awesome.
- [Kristy] Like at six,that's pretty good!
- That's awesome.
So they got sometraction, these new video,
(18:29):
but not quite the sameas that original one.
- Yes, not the same at all.
- I wonder what it wasabout that original video.
- It was so - I didn't even plan it.
Like we just did it.
Like my boyfriend just, andI was like I don't even know
what I'm gonna say, buthere goes, you know?
And then I just did itand I was like nervous
'cause I've never done anything quite
like that and I'm kind of shy anyway.
(18:50):
But yeah.
- That's so cool.
Did you have a question, Cori?
I feel like I jumped in front.
- I just really wouldlove to hear, you know,
this was an initialstepping or starting point
to really just educatethe world about, you know,
(19:10):
how someone who cannotsee uses technology.
If you could tell the world right now,
like what do you wantthem to know about you
and how you use technologyand how they can help?
- Good question.
- Well.
It's a beautiful thing.
(19:32):
I love that I can do somuch with my phone or iPad
and any other screen reader textings.
Like just knowing, likeKindle, like being able to use,
you know, read booksand YouTube and all the,
I appreciate the factthat the really strong
like company-based like interfaces
(19:54):
out there like Kindle and YouTube
and Apple's got like their video service
where you can, like it'sApple TV+ and stuff,
but I just like, at least I noticed
their Accessibility is way better
as far as like the buttons working
(20:15):
and all of the, like everything,
all the elements in thesite or the app, you know?
- What do you mean by buttons not working?
Can you tell the audience what that means?
- Well I'm not very goodat all the technical part
except I know that thescreen reader needs...
(20:36):
it needs somebody to gothrough like auditing
or like going through and making sure
that they're using whatthey need to make this site
user friendly with the screen reader.
So it's like that every time someone makes
a webpage or an app or anything like that,
(20:58):
of course maintenance goes into it
and so you have to keep it accessible
like every time there's an update too.
- Yeah, you have to label the buttons.
- [Mark] What's your experience?
- I just wish - yes, you have to label
all the buttons and all the elements
and headings and all the structure
in your site to work with a screen reader
and it's so important because I run
into it where they don't work.
(21:19):
A button is not labeledcorrectly so it just says button
or it, you know, you push itand it's like it doesn't work.
I don't understand that.
- Yeah, that's what Iwas gonna ask you is like
what's your experience when you run into
something like a button that doesn't work?
Like how does that affect your-
- Sometimes I turn on voiceover and I try
to use it like that andit doesn't always work.
(21:40):
It's frustrating.
It makes me very, it messes up things
like I missed half of an appointment
yesterday because of it, you know?
- And what happens isyou run into this button
and you know there's a button there?
There's just nothing toconvey what that button does?
- Yeah, it won't click.
So it's-
- That happened to melast night on an app.
I know exactly what you're talking about.
(22:01):
- It's just frustrating and...
Yeah, so there's a definitely a-
- It stops you in your tracks.
- It does.
- And I think today withthe technology where it is,
there's possibilitiesfor it to be accessible.
So just getting theword out and, you know,
educating people on what that looks like.
- Like I wrote in a postyesterday, I know that
(22:22):
this isn't even a thingthat could ever happen,
but I just wish sometimes that there was
no need to make app accessible.
Like I wish that the framework just worked
with whatever the screen reader-
- [Cori] Never say never.
- [Kristy] Huh?
- [Cori] I said never say never, maybe.
- That's a reallyinteresting thought, right?
And it's, I think it'spossible, but it's possible in.
(22:48):
Like policy, in attitude,because no app works
until somebody buildsit and makes it work.
And it could have a bug init that affects everybody.
So you have to look out for-
- That's a very good point, yup.
- And improve it, you know what I mean?
So it's just a matter of going like hey,
we're concerned abouta person who can see,
who can use a keyboard and a mouse
(23:08):
or who can see their phone and see
the touch screen and all that.
We're concerned about whetheror not it works for them.
We just need to also beconcerned whether or not
somebody who's only relying on hearing
and touch and is usinga screen reader or maybe
plugging in a braille displayor something like that.
(23:31):
It just needs to work there too.
Like it's almost anextension versus, you know,
and I think that's where a lot of,
I think you bring upsome really good points
'cause I think a lot of peoplethink of it very separately
and it's like no no no,it's just an extension
of the user experienceyou're trying to create.
- Yeah, and I know forApple they've made screen...
What is it?
It's like a recognition thing?
(23:53):
Screen recognition?
- Mmhm.
- And when you enable it, it helps
with some of the unlabeled elements
like buttons and just different things.
On a site it will-
- [Mark] Some of the screenreaders are getting smarter.
- An image, like a visual, yeah.
- But sometimes itdoesn't work the greatest
because it still I think relies
somewhat on the interface, you know?
(24:16):
I don't know.
So it doesn't always work reliably.
And so it's like I get, Ibet some people are out there
like well they have that cool new feature
in their, you know, with Apple where they,
it'll tell them stuff thatmight not have a label,
but I feel like it doesn't matter.
Like you should never justassume that the screen reader
(24:37):
is gonna be able to just helpwhere there isn't, you know,
I just wish more peoplewould put more effort into
making sure that we're just as much
of a priority being, those of us that use
a screen reader, as anyone else, you know?
That we're not like oh yeah,
we should include them now.
Oops.
- Yep.
That that's well said, andagain, you know, Kristy,
(25:00):
what I really love about thisis that Cori and I are always
kind of marred down in the business
and technical details of all this.
And you're a person that lives outside
of that world that'sjust living your life.
And you have, I'm gonna call it
like a very innocent approach to this.
You're like I just needto use my phone, right?
(25:21):
- Yeah!
Seriously though, that's literally it.
- And I wish everybodywould make it a priority
and it really, you'revery, for me who's always
caught up in this, justhumanizes it very nicely
where it's like look, here'sthis person, you know?
Sitting on their couch.
Just using their phone like everybody
in the world wants to do.
And one, kudos to you forsharing because I think
(25:43):
that the awareness thatthat brings is staggering.
Especially when you get the viral nature
of something like that one video.
- And that's how Ikinda learned more about
how it works with likeinterfaces and like the way
those actually maketheir sites accessible,
like I learned that more about
(26:04):
how important it is and how...
Like I had, you know, once in a while
they'd reach out to me like somebody,
like was wondering abouttheir website or something
and I would like check it for them as much
as I could and like, you know,
and let them know likeit works really well.
I'm not finding any issues
or maybe there is an issue, you know?
(26:25):
- Yeah.
- But just, I'm glad that like people
out there that do thatkind of work that are,
I forget what you call them, like,
just very good with computers and that's
all they do is design apps and stuff.
I'm glad that maybe they saw the swiping
and all the ways that maybe I-
(26:45):
- Absolutely.
- Was able to show so thenthey're like oh, okay.
So we now we get more of an idea
how that works for somebody.
- Yeah.
- It's all awareness, Kristy, right?
And I think that that's whatyou brought to the table here
is for a group of people that may not
have known before andnow they know, you know?
- [Cori] My take - yeah, go ahead.
(27:08):
- I was gonna say tome that's kind of like
the beginning of that wish you made.
Like I wish they didn't haveto think about accessibility.
The flip side of that is if everybody
just understands accessibilityand prioritize it
they don't have to think about it.
It's just part of the waythat they develop something.
And it starts with that kind of awareness
that you created through that one video.
(27:29):
I'm sorry Cori, I sort of-
- No, no, this is a fun conversation.
I was just gonna say that, you know,
the awareness brings knowledgeand now knowledge is power.
And I think for the most part, you know,
humans mean, you know,they want to do well.
They don't know whatthey don't know, right?
People don't know what they don't know.
(27:50):
And when you show a softwaredeveloper how to swipe,
you know, and they realize hey, I can take
just one extra step andthat's gonna make so many
people's lives morefulfilling, more independent.
Just a better user experience.
Let's hope that that'swhat will just continue
to grow through peoplelike yourself, Kristy.
(28:10):
Just getting it out there.
Making it.
- I actually did DoorDash forthe first time the other day.
- Wait a minute, what?
Oh, yourself.
I'm like wait, you drove a car?
(laughs) That is dangerous.
- Yeah!
- She didn't go to work for DoorDash.
She was hungry, Cori.
She was hungry.
- Okay, I'm like wellwe have a problem here.
- But the good news isshe was able to do it.
(28:31):
- Hey, driverless cars, maybe one day.
- I was gonna say did you get one of those
cars that drive you already?
- So I, you know, I think that you make
a really good point, Cori,about people wanting to do it
and I can remember, thiswas about 10 years ago.
I had gone to a technical, like a small
local technical conference and we brought,
(28:53):
we actually were running the conference
and we brought a bunch of different kind
of accessibility thingsand one of them was we just
had a computer there with ascreen reader hooked up to it.
And this was for a group of developers,
like technical developerpeople that were a part
of this group that were coming to this.
And I can remember oneof the UX designers,
the user experience designers,
(29:15):
sitting down like oh, what's this?
And putting on the headphoneswhich was then playing JAWS.
And him navigating the web going to
some of his own thingsthat he had developed.
And just being excited likea kid in a candy store.
And he peeled the headphonesback and turned to us and said
(29:37):
"I had no idea people were trying
"to use my software this way."
And he was a convert at that point.
He was like, his job was user experience
and he wanted every userto experience his software
in a great way, that's what his job was.
All he needed is the awareness, right?
(29:59):
The same type of awareness that, Kristy,
you brought to a bunch of people
through an accidentalviral video, you know?
So I think that that's, you know,
your point's well taken,Cori, that a lot of people
really want to do thatand they want everybody
to be able to have the same experience.
They just need the awareness.
(30:21):
- Understand it, yeah.
- [Mark] Yeah.
- Love it.
- So Cori, do you feelinspired by Kristy here?
Are we gonna see a bunchof videos coming out?
- The difference is I am not an expert
assistive technology user, so yeah,
I could show them theslower paced version of it.
(laughs)
(30:42):
But that's super cool.
- Yeah, I'm sure thatthat'll change for you soon.
Maybe you and Kristy get together
and she gives you pointers and tips.
- There we go.
- [Kristy] That'd be fun with friends.
- Wouldn't it?
- I will definitely followup with you after this.
- So we're coming to the endhere, but is there anything
that either one of you want to want to say
that we haven't gottena chance to say or just
reemphasize before we say bye to everyone?
(31:08):
- I just look forward to thefuture and what it holds.
And I hope that it includesmore accessibility on the web.
That it gets, it just keeps growing
and getting better, you know?
So we don't run into somany issues all the time.
- We need to put you on a rooftop
so you can just scream that.
- I was gonna say ditto!
I couldn't say it better.
(31:28):
- We couldn't say it better.
So Kristy, if people want to find
this video how do they do that?
- I'm on Twitter at, it's @Kristy,
K-R-I-S-T-Y, underscore Viers.
It's V-I-E-R-S.
I'm also on Facebook.
Just Kristy Veers.
(31:49):
I believe it says like Rochester College
and some stuff about me.
It'll say on there thatI, if you type my name,
if you put kristyviers.comit'll, that's another way
to access my YouTube channel 'cause it's
just on its own little webpage thing.
- Nice.
And we'll make sure that we put
(32:09):
all that stuff in the podcast notes
so if you guys want to follow Kristy and-
- And I'm on YouTube of course.
- And you're on YouTube, so, you know,
maybe this podcast is your next step-
- Motivator now.
- To greater fame, so youmight wanna start getting
some videos out there for your fans.
- Yeah, I probably should do that, huh?
(32:31):
- [Cori] You can send this video out.
- We'll be looking for them.
All right, any parting words, Cori?
- Thanks to everyone thatis building and expanding
their digital accessibility efforts.
And like Kristy said, it changes lives.
(32:53):
Not just for individualsusing assistive technology,
but their families too, soit touches so so many people.
More than a lot of people realize
and just want to keep the message going.
- Excellent.
Well thank you both.
Appreciate both of you.
And Kristy, thanks for being on
(33:15):
the podcast and sharing your story.
- Thanks for having me.
- You're welcome.
It's so cool, it gives usall hope that maybe we can
become famous influencerslike you someday.
- [Cori] Yeah.
With just a simple video,unsuspecting video.
Well this is Mark Millerthanking Kristy and Cori
and reminding you allto keep it accessible.
(33:38):
- [Announcer] This podcast hasbeen brought to you by TPGI.
The experts in digital accessibility.
Stay tuned for more
Real People, Real Storiespodcasts coming soon.
(uplifting music)
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