July 2, 2025 • 11 mins
I spoke with Subroto Mukerji, the CEO of Integreon, an alternative legal and global managed services provider. We discussed how generative AI is affecting the demand for legal services, the value of “AI fluency” in the legal field, and how the legal operations discipline is evolving as generative AI becomes increasingly embedded in legal workflows.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speakingtoday with Subroto Mukherjee, the
(00:23):
CEO of Integrion in alternative legaland global managed services provider.
Hi, Subroto.
How are you?
Hi, Ari, how are you?
I'm well.
Thanks for making time for me, andI love that voice of your eyes.
It's a privilege to speak withyou, and I've been looking
forward to this conversation.
Tell us about your backgroundand your role at Integrion.
(00:46):
I.
Thank you.
I grew up in India, joined the technologyindustries, and spent 30 odd years
there, a bulk of it, 20 years withh, HP and s predecessor companies,
digital compact, H-P-H-P-D-X-E.
And then I went to Rackspace firstas their CEO, and then as the
(01:06):
president of their two and a halfbillion dollar America's business.
I came Toran about twoand a half years ago.
In fact the same week as chat,GPT got launched and it's such
a fun experience since then.
Speaking of chat, GPT, how should legalteams think about generative AI today
(01:29):
and about its continued development?
It's more than time for legalteams to shift the use of gene
ai from a experimentation mindsetto a intentionality mindset.
Gene AI adoption is no longer aboutpilot projects or novelty use cases.
(01:50):
It is about strategically embeddingthe tools into core workflows.
Legal dream should ask, where canJNI meaningfully reduce the burden?
Without introducing newrisk and deployed that.
So that's one.
The second one I would say is that theneed to build AI fluency across the teams.
You obviously don't need everyone to be anAI engineer, but legal professional must
(02:14):
understand where Gen AI adds value, it'slimitations, and how to govern its CEOs.
Govern is important.
People must get the governanceframework right before they scale.
And to be able to do that, it'salways a good idea to partner Wisely
so that you can generate the outcomethat you want from Gen AI without
(02:38):
getting into very complicatedevaluations of tools and tool fatigue.
How is generative AIaffecting the demand for legal
services?
Generative AI is increasingthe demand for legal services.
As legal is a area wheresupply was constrained.
(02:58):
The potential demand for legal servicesis far greater than the supply that was
available at a particular price point,and generative AI makes supply increase,
therefore, more of the demand can be met.
It's a net positive for our industry.
You noted the importanceof being fluent in ai.
(03:20):
What is AI fluency in legal?
AI fluency involves understandingthe capabilities and limitations
of AI tools and enabling legalprofessionals to effectively
integrate them into their workflow.
First you need to be educatedabout the foundations of ai.
(03:41):
Begin with foundation knowledgeabout AI technologies and how
they're relevant to legal operations.
Then you need to let.
Hands-on experience.
They encourage teams to use the AI tools,and you need to support the teams as
they are going through the use of it.
Remind the teams that the AI today isthe worst that it is ever going to be.
(04:04):
So tomorrow's AI will be betterthan today's, and day afters
will be better than that.
At the same time, because ofwhat I said just now, not let
perfect be the enemy of good.
You cannot wait for things to get perfect.
To use it.
You have to start using itright now, knowing full well
that there are limitations andmitigate for those limitations.
(04:26):
What do corporate legal departmentsneed to do to achieve AI fluency?
They need to start getting people whoare excited about it, exposed to the
technology, give them the support thatthey need to be able to use it and realize
(04:48):
that there are risks to its use and thereare known ways to mitigate that risk.
The other thing that they need todo is to partner with somebody who's
done the heavy lifting in termsof evaluating tools, especially
in large corporate organizations.
You often don't want to make acommitment to a tool set or a solution
(05:11):
because the decision making timeframeis very long to evaluate tools, and
there might be better tools around thecorner, so you don't want to make a
long term commitment to existing tools.
One way to solve for that is topartner with somebody who's already
done this evaluation, buy thesolution from them as a service.
So that tomorrow, if a betterproduct or solution comes along,
(05:35):
you can shift to that without havingyour capital cost go to waste.
And what separates those legal departmentsthat are thriving with AI tools and
those that are still struggling?
In any technology adoption, thereis the curve of early adopters,
late adopters, middle laggards.
(05:55):
What separates the early adopters inthis case is the education and fluency
we talked about and the clear realizationthat in this technology, people who
adopt it early will continue to expandthe gains that they gain from it.
(06:17):
This is not something that will getleap ffred by the next technology.
So people who adopt Gene AI todaywill expand the gap between them
and those who don't adopt it today.
It is not a situation that somebodywill be a, fast follower and
catch up with the early adopter.
(06:37):
It's still early days.
People who are getting onto thetechnology now not only are reaping
the benefits today, but will continueto reap more of the benefits tomorrow.
What are the advantages of beinga technology agnostic organization
in the age of generative ai?
At the foundation level, there has tobe firstly understanding of what this
(06:59):
technology is, what it can do, whatit cannot do, what it attributes are.
So once you have that foundationalunderstanding, being technology
and agnostic in this case, and inmost cases means putting client
outcomes before vendor loyalty.
So Atran, while we have partneredwith many technology providers, we
(07:20):
are very clear with our partnersand our customers that we don't
push a single platform of product.
We evaluate the technology basedon how well it solves the client's
specific problem, and then proposethat solution to the customer.
Most enterprise customersthere is a installed base of.
(07:42):
Technology and an installbase of solutions.
You know why God could createthe universe in seven days.
She could do it becausethere was no install base.
If you go into enterprise customer,there is a install base and what
technology you propose has to workeffectively in that install base.
(08:04):
So the key point is to understandwhat that install base is,
what the client's problem is.
Then look at the technology solutionsavailable, propose the right one.
And that's why even though wehave strong partnership with many
technology providers in the industry,we are agnostic of what the right
solution for a customer would be.
(08:24):
We evaluate the situationand propose that.
How does Integrion approachdecisions around technology vendors?
Aon has always been a very tech enabledcompany and has always had a core
group of people who scan the marketand know how technology is evolving.
We have further added to that technicalcapability over the last few years
(08:48):
by strengthening our tech teams.
We created an entire chiefTechnology Officers Organization.
We hired a very strong individualto lead that organization.
We.
Both by dealing with large enterprisecustomers and being exposed to their
technology evaluation process and choices.
And by using our own people and theirmarket savvy, are continuously evaluating
(09:13):
technologies that are available,piloting them, trying them out, deciding
where they fit in our solution setand more importantly in the customer's
solution set and making sure that.
Our people are well trainedin being able to use the full
functionality of those technologies.
(09:36):
How do you see law departmentoperations evolving as generative AI
becomes embedded into legal workflows?
Number one, law departments wouldstart looking at a mix of legal
advice and leverage of technologyto dramatically change the speed
(09:59):
and cost point of their solutions.
I think the fee for service model thehourly service model will all come for.
Evaluation by customers and forlooking at ways to get the outcome
that they want faster and at a lowercost point by using technology better.
(10:25):
We see LSPs like us playing a significantrole in that and ask customers tell us
that the right mix of their in-housetalent, their external legal talent.
US mixed with the right amount oftechnology is what is Nirvana for them.
So we see a strong role forourselves in that ecosystem.
(10:48):
This is Ari Kaplan speaking withSoroto Mukherjee, the CEO of Integrion
and Alternative Legal and globalmanaged services provider, Brito.
It's really been a privilege.
Thank you so much,
Ari.
It's been a privilege as well.
Keep up the good work.
You're an asset to the industry.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
(11:11):
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speakingtoday with Subroto Mukherjee, the
(00:23):
CEO of Integrion in alternative legaland global managed services provider.
Hi, Subroto.
How are you?
Hi, Ari, how are you?
I'm well.
Thanks for making time for me, andI love that voice of your eyes.
It's a privilege to speak withyou, and I've been looking
forward to this conversation.
Tell us about your backgroundand your role at Integrion.
(00:46):
I.
Thank you.
I grew up in India, joined the technologyindustries, and spent 30 odd years
there, a bulk of it, 20 years withh, HP and s predecessor companies,
digital compact, H-P-H-P-D-X-E.
And then I went to Rackspace firstas their CEO, and then as the
(01:06):
president of their two and a halfbillion dollar America's business.
I came Toran about twoand a half years ago.
In fact the same week as chat,GPT got launched and it's such
a fun experience since then.
Speaking of chat, GPT, how should legalteams think about generative AI today
(01:29):
and about its continued development?
It's more than time for legalteams to shift the use of gene
ai from a experimentation mindsetto a intentionality mindset.
Gene AI adoption is no longer aboutpilot projects or novelty use cases.
(01:50):
It is about strategically embeddingthe tools into core workflows.
Legal dream should ask, where canJNI meaningfully reduce the burden?
Without introducing newrisk and deployed that.
So that's one.
The second one I would say is that theneed to build AI fluency across the teams.
You obviously don't need everyone to be anAI engineer, but legal professional must
(02:14):
understand where Gen AI adds value, it'slimitations, and how to govern its CEOs.
Govern is important.
People must get the governanceframework right before they scale.
And to be able to do that, it'salways a good idea to partner Wisely
so that you can generate the outcomethat you want from Gen AI without
(02:38):
getting into very complicatedevaluations of tools and tool fatigue.
How is generative AIaffecting the demand for legal
services?
Generative AI is increasingthe demand for legal services.
As legal is a area wheresupply was constrained.
(02:58):
The potential demand for legal servicesis far greater than the supply that was
available at a particular price point,and generative AI makes supply increase,
therefore, more of the demand can be met.
It's a net positive for our industry.
You noted the importanceof being fluent in ai.
(03:20):
What is AI fluency in legal?
AI fluency involves understandingthe capabilities and limitations
of AI tools and enabling legalprofessionals to effectively
integrate them into their workflow.
First you need to be educatedabout the foundations of ai.
(03:41):
Begin with foundation knowledgeabout AI technologies and how
they're relevant to legal operations.
Then you need to let.
Hands-on experience.
They encourage teams to use the AI tools,and you need to support the teams as
they are going through the use of it.
Remind the teams that the AI today isthe worst that it is ever going to be.
(04:04):
So tomorrow's AI will be betterthan today's, and day afters
will be better than that.
At the same time, because ofwhat I said just now, not let
perfect be the enemy of good.
You cannot wait for things to get perfect.
To use it.
You have to start using itright now, knowing full well
that there are limitations andmitigate for those limitations.
(04:26):
What do corporate legal departmentsneed to do to achieve AI fluency?
They need to start getting people whoare excited about it, exposed to the
technology, give them the support thatthey need to be able to use it and realize
(04:48):
that there are risks to its use and thereare known ways to mitigate that risk.
The other thing that they need todo is to partner with somebody who's
done the heavy lifting in termsof evaluating tools, especially
in large corporate organizations.
You often don't want to make acommitment to a tool set or a solution
(05:11):
because the decision making timeframeis very long to evaluate tools, and
there might be better tools around thecorner, so you don't want to make a
long term commitment to existing tools.
One way to solve for that is topartner with somebody who's already
done this evaluation, buy thesolution from them as a service.
So that tomorrow, if a betterproduct or solution comes along,
(05:35):
you can shift to that without havingyour capital cost go to waste.
And what separates those legal departmentsthat are thriving with AI tools and
those that are still struggling?
In any technology adoption, thereis the curve of early adopters,
late adopters, middle laggards.
(05:55):
What separates the early adopters inthis case is the education and fluency
we talked about and the clear realizationthat in this technology, people who
adopt it early will continue to expandthe gains that they gain from it.
(06:17):
This is not something that will getleap ffred by the next technology.
So people who adopt Gene AI todaywill expand the gap between them
and those who don't adopt it today.
It is not a situation that somebodywill be a, fast follower and
catch up with the early adopter.
(06:37):
It's still early days.
People who are getting onto thetechnology now not only are reaping
the benefits today, but will continueto reap more of the benefits tomorrow.
What are the advantages of beinga technology agnostic organization
in the age of generative ai?
At the foundation level, there has tobe firstly understanding of what this
(06:59):
technology is, what it can do, whatit cannot do, what it attributes are.
So once you have that foundationalunderstanding, being technology
and agnostic in this case, and inmost cases means putting client
outcomes before vendor loyalty.
So Atran, while we have partneredwith many technology providers, we
(07:20):
are very clear with our partnersand our customers that we don't
push a single platform of product.
We evaluate the technology basedon how well it solves the client's
specific problem, and then proposethat solution to the customer.
Most enterprise customersthere is a installed base of.
(07:42):
Technology and an installbase of solutions.
You know why God could createthe universe in seven days.
She could do it becausethere was no install base.
If you go into enterprise customer,there is a install base and what
technology you propose has to workeffectively in that install base.
(08:04):
So the key point is to understandwhat that install base is,
what the client's problem is.
Then look at the technology solutionsavailable, propose the right one.
And that's why even though wehave strong partnership with many
technology providers in the industry,we are agnostic of what the right
solution for a customer would be.
(08:24):
We evaluate the situationand propose that.
How does Integrion approachdecisions around technology vendors?
Aon has always been a very tech enabledcompany and has always had a core
group of people who scan the marketand know how technology is evolving.
We have further added to that technicalcapability over the last few years
(08:48):
by strengthening our tech teams.
We created an entire chiefTechnology Officers Organization.
We hired a very strong individualto lead that organization.
We.
Both by dealing with large enterprisecustomers and being exposed to their
technology evaluation process and choices.
And by using our own people and theirmarket savvy, are continuously evaluating
(09:13):
technologies that are available,piloting them, trying them out, deciding
where they fit in our solution setand more importantly in the customer's
solution set and making sure that.
Our people are well trainedin being able to use the full
functionality of those technologies.
(09:36):
How do you see law departmentoperations evolving as generative AI
becomes embedded into legal workflows?
Number one, law departments wouldstart looking at a mix of legal
advice and leverage of technologyto dramatically change the speed
(09:59):
and cost point of their solutions.
I think the fee for service model thehourly service model will all come for.
Evaluation by customers and forlooking at ways to get the outcome
that they want faster and at a lowercost point by using technology better.
(10:25):
We see LSPs like us playing a significantrole in that and ask customers tell us
that the right mix of their in-housetalent, their external legal talent.
US mixed with the right amount oftechnology is what is Nirvana for them.
So we see a strong role forourselves in that ecosystem.
(10:48):
This is Ari Kaplan speaking withSoroto Mukherjee, the CEO of Integrion
and Alternative Legal and globalmanaged services provider, Brito.
It's really been a privilege.
Thank you so much,
Ari.
It's been a privilege as well.
Keep up the good work.
You're an asset to the industry.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
(11:11):
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
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