August 12, 2025 • 7 mins
I spoke with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu and Bruno Belcastro Pinto, the CEO and Senior Product Leader, respectively, at Definely, an AI-powered productivity suite for contract drafting and review, during the 2025 International Legal Technology Association Conference. In this first part of our interview, we discussed the company's origin story, its release of Cascade during ILTACON, and the value it provides to transactional lawyers focused on complex, high-value documents and contracts.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan at ILTA Con 2025.
I'm speaking today with Nam dEmily fw and Bruno Bel Castro.
(00:25):
Pinto, the CEO and seniorproduct leader, respectively.
At divinely an AI powered productivitysuite for contract drafting and review.
Nadi Bruno.
Great to see you.
Good to see you Arian.
Thanks for having us on.
Nnamdi.
Tell us about your backgroundand the genesis of Divinely.
I'm a former lawyer.
I trained at T Hills where Iwas there for about five years
(00:48):
doing mainly finance related law.
When I joined Freshfields as a traineesolicitor, there was another lawyer who
moved over as a new qualified solicitor.
He and I worked on the same transactionas my first deal and his first deal
at the firm, and his name was Fergus.
He was a brilliant lawyer, butwhat made him unique is that
he's actually visually impaired.
He was one of the few registeredblind solicitors in the uk.
And it was the problem he hadwhen he was trying to read and
(01:11):
understand these lengthy contractswe worked on in an efficient way.
We brainstormed to find a better andmore efficient way for him to actually
access the information he neededto make his job more productive.
And it was the spark that we came upwith that led to the idea behind the
first product we launched in 2020,which is our defining draft product.
And since then we've built a productivitysuite that helps lawyers read, understand,
(01:34):
and draft contracts and, we're veryproud that something that started with
a pain point that was faced by somebodywho's visually impaired is now being
used by thousands of lawyers and some ofthe biggest law firms and organizations
like A&O Sherman Slaughter and May DLAPiper, J.P. Morgan, Barclay's, Deloitte.
Bruno, tell us about yourbackground and your mission at
this year's ILTA conference.
(01:55):
My background is in tech.
I have 12 years of experiencebuilding products people love.
So I come from pure tech backgroundin comparison to Nnamdi and Fergus.
This space is really interestingto me and I see a lot of disruption
going on in legal and legal tech.
So that was something that reallyattracted me to the company.
(02:15):
I joined earlier this year.
I'm leading our teams on the ai sideof the company, and this year at
ILTA, we're launching a product calledCascade which is a product that helps
lawyers identify the first, second,and third level knock-on effects of
any changes within a legal contract.
Na mdi, from your perspective,what are the most significant
(02:37):
barriers that are preventing lawfirms from fully embracing ai?
Driven solutions and how is divinelyhelping them through that journey?
Lawyers have historically been alittle bit more skeptical with anything
that could lead to security issues,especially because of the sensitive
information that they deal with ona daily basis with their clients.
AI clearly is one of those thingswhere you have to be comfortable with,
(03:00):
having data being used in places thatyou may not necessarily ordinarily
want it because of client issues.
And I think, as law firms interactwith, vendors and companies the onus
is on the companies to make sure thatthey have all of the safety standards
that's needed to make sure that thedata from these law firms are safe.
And that's one of the things that we do.
We have all of our sort of certificationsafety certifications, and we make
(03:23):
sure that we stay up to date withthat to give our clients the Strongest
reassurance that all of that datais being used in the right way.
And, as long as that happens,then law firms and corporate
legal teams will get more andmore comfortable with AI adoption.
Bruno, you mentionedthe launch of Cascade.
How is that transformingthe contract review process?
(03:44):
It's a product that we haven't seenanyone in the market do anything
similar in terms of bringing asolution like this to the market.
In your typical red lining tool, you'llnot be able to go deep into what are the
knock-on effects of any of these changes,so we're leveraging all of the technology
that we've built throughout the years withDraft and we're combining that with the
power of our agentic framework that werecently announced a couple of months ago.
(04:06):
We're going three levels deep intoany potential knock-on effects.
We're also keeping thelawyer in the driving seat.
We're not trying to replace lawyers,but we're trying to augment them
and make sure that they're ableto focus on the most valuable work
for their clients by using Cascade.
We're building this with our customers.
We've been doing a lot of earlytesting and going from prototypes
(04:28):
to the product that you're seeinglaunch today, and the feedback
that we've been getting is amazing.
So We are really excited to get morepeople trying this out and also learning
how they may get value out of this.
Nnamdi, you mentioned a number ofprominent law firms and corporate legal
teams that are leveraging your technology.
Where are you finding the greatestreception within those organizations?
(04:52):
We are very clear about where wefocus at the moment and that's
for transactional lawyers.
It's for lawyers who work on high-complex,high-value documentations and contracts.
So it'll be your corporatedepartments, your finance
departments, your real estate,your tax competition law practices.
That's where we get the greatestvalue-add from our products, and
(05:13):
in most full-service law firms,that will be the highest practice
areas in the organization.
Bruno, as the company has continued togrow and launch new products, how have you
been able to maintain the high quality ofthe user experience with each iteration?
We put our users at the centerof everything that we do.
We believe that we need to be reallydeep into their workflows and meet
(05:36):
them where they are rather thantrying to take them somewhere else.
I think context switching is alsoone of the barriers of adoption
when it comes to legal tech product.
Lawyers live within world, so that'swhere we are and where we meet them.
In terms of user experience,we're constantly testing things.
We're making sure that we are optimizingflows and we're making sure that we
(05:56):
have all of the feedback from ourcustomers in consideration when we're
extending the features that we have andthe solutions that we build for them.
Nnamdi, what is it about il decon that'sunique in the conversations that you're
able to have and in the engagement thatyou can produce here at this event?
(06:17):
When I first started the business,I always heard about ILTACON.
As a young startup, ittakes a while before you can
afford to actually come here.
When we first came and displayed in thestartup alley in 2022, so this is our
fourth time now here, the buzz you feelhere I think that this is probably one of
the biggest legal gatherings in the world.
It's so exciting and you have people herewho really want to have, conversations.
(06:39):
They want to see what's out there.
They're really thinking about howthey can be innovative within their
organizations, and they want tobe at the coalface and speak to
companies doing interesting things.
That's what ILTACON really does.
It brings together like-mindedpeople who are super embracing.
Of the technologies and aboutefficiency and building efficiencies
within their organizations.
And obviously a lot ofcompanies here building things
(07:00):
and launching products here.
So it's really cool to speak to, the endusers, the law firms and the lawyers,
but also to speak to other companies andsee what's being built and the exciting
innovation that's happening in this space.
So it's a really exciting, conference.
This is Ari Kaplanspeaking with Nam d Emily.
Fun and Bruno.
Be Castro Pinto, the CEO and seniorproduct leader, respectively at
(07:22):
divinely an AI powered productivitysuite for contract drafting and review.
Nam ddi.
Bruno, thank you so much.
Thank you very much, Ari.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan at ILTA Con 2025.
I'm speaking today with Nam dEmily fw and Bruno Bel Castro.
(00:25):
Pinto, the CEO and seniorproduct leader, respectively.
At divinely an AI powered productivitysuite for contract drafting and review.
Nadi Bruno.
Great to see you.
Good to see you Arian.
Thanks for having us on.
Nnamdi.
Tell us about your backgroundand the genesis of Divinely.
I'm a former lawyer.
I trained at T Hills where Iwas there for about five years
(00:48):
doing mainly finance related law.
When I joined Freshfields as a traineesolicitor, there was another lawyer who
moved over as a new qualified solicitor.
He and I worked on the same transactionas my first deal and his first deal
at the firm, and his name was Fergus.
He was a brilliant lawyer, butwhat made him unique is that
he's actually visually impaired.
He was one of the few registeredblind solicitors in the uk.
And it was the problem he hadwhen he was trying to read and
(01:11):
understand these lengthy contractswe worked on in an efficient way.
We brainstormed to find a better andmore efficient way for him to actually
access the information he neededto make his job more productive.
And it was the spark that we came upwith that led to the idea behind the
first product we launched in 2020,which is our defining draft product.
And since then we've built a productivitysuite that helps lawyers read, understand,
(01:34):
and draft contracts and, we're veryproud that something that started with
a pain point that was faced by somebodywho's visually impaired is now being
used by thousands of lawyers and some ofthe biggest law firms and organizations
like A&O Sherman Slaughter and May DLAPiper, J.P. Morgan, Barclay's, Deloitte.
Bruno, tell us about yourbackground and your mission at
this year's ILTA conference.
(01:55):
My background is in tech.
I have 12 years of experiencebuilding products people love.
So I come from pure tech backgroundin comparison to Nnamdi and Fergus.
This space is really interestingto me and I see a lot of disruption
going on in legal and legal tech.
So that was something that reallyattracted me to the company.
(02:15):
I joined earlier this year.
I'm leading our teams on the ai sideof the company, and this year at
ILTA, we're launching a product calledCascade which is a product that helps
lawyers identify the first, second,and third level knock-on effects of
any changes within a legal contract.
Na mdi, from your perspective,what are the most significant
(02:37):
barriers that are preventing lawfirms from fully embracing ai?
Driven solutions and how is divinelyhelping them through that journey?
Lawyers have historically been alittle bit more skeptical with anything
that could lead to security issues,especially because of the sensitive
information that they deal with ona daily basis with their clients.
AI clearly is one of those thingswhere you have to be comfortable with,
(03:00):
having data being used in places thatyou may not necessarily ordinarily
want it because of client issues.
And I think, as law firms interactwith, vendors and companies the onus
is on the companies to make sure thatthey have all of the safety standards
that's needed to make sure that thedata from these law firms are safe.
And that's one of the things that we do.
We have all of our sort of certificationsafety certifications, and we make
(03:23):
sure that we stay up to date withthat to give our clients the Strongest
reassurance that all of that datais being used in the right way.
And, as long as that happens,then law firms and corporate
legal teams will get more andmore comfortable with AI adoption.
Bruno, you mentionedthe launch of Cascade.
How is that transformingthe contract review process?
(03:44):
It's a product that we haven't seenanyone in the market do anything
similar in terms of bringing asolution like this to the market.
In your typical red lining tool, you'llnot be able to go deep into what are the
knock-on effects of any of these changes,so we're leveraging all of the technology
that we've built throughout the years withDraft and we're combining that with the
power of our agentic framework that werecently announced a couple of months ago.
(04:06):
We're going three levels deep intoany potential knock-on effects.
We're also keeping thelawyer in the driving seat.
We're not trying to replace lawyers,but we're trying to augment them
and make sure that they're ableto focus on the most valuable work
for their clients by using Cascade.
We're building this with our customers.
We've been doing a lot of earlytesting and going from prototypes
(04:28):
to the product that you're seeinglaunch today, and the feedback
that we've been getting is amazing.
So We are really excited to get morepeople trying this out and also learning
how they may get value out of this.
Nnamdi, you mentioned a number ofprominent law firms and corporate legal
teams that are leveraging your technology.
Where are you finding the greatestreception within those organizations?
(04:52):
We are very clear about where wefocus at the moment and that's
for transactional lawyers.
It's for lawyers who work on high-complex,high-value documentations and contracts.
So it'll be your corporatedepartments, your finance
departments, your real estate,your tax competition law practices.
That's where we get the greatestvalue-add from our products, and
(05:13):
in most full-service law firms,that will be the highest practice
areas in the organization.
Bruno, as the company has continued togrow and launch new products, how have you
been able to maintain the high quality ofthe user experience with each iteration?
We put our users at the centerof everything that we do.
We believe that we need to be reallydeep into their workflows and meet
(05:36):
them where they are rather thantrying to take them somewhere else.
I think context switching is alsoone of the barriers of adoption
when it comes to legal tech product.
Lawyers live within world, so that'swhere we are and where we meet them.
In terms of user experience,we're constantly testing things.
We're making sure that we are optimizingflows and we're making sure that we
(05:56):
have all of the feedback from ourcustomers in consideration when we're
extending the features that we have andthe solutions that we build for them.
Nnamdi, what is it about il decon that'sunique in the conversations that you're
able to have and in the engagement thatyou can produce here at this event?
(06:17):
When I first started the business,I always heard about ILTACON.
As a young startup, ittakes a while before you can
afford to actually come here.
When we first came and displayed in thestartup alley in 2022, so this is our
fourth time now here, the buzz you feelhere I think that this is probably one of
the biggest legal gatherings in the world.
It's so exciting and you have people herewho really want to have, conversations.
(06:39):
They want to see what's out there.
They're really thinking about howthey can be innovative within their
organizations, and they want tobe at the coalface and speak to
companies doing interesting things.
That's what ILTACON really does.
It brings together like-mindedpeople who are super embracing.
Of the technologies and aboutefficiency and building efficiencies
within their organizations.
And obviously a lot ofcompanies here building things
(07:00):
and launching products here.
So it's really cool to speak to, the endusers, the law firms and the lawyers,
but also to speak to other companies andsee what's being built and the exciting
innovation that's happening in this space.
So it's a really exciting, conference.
This is Ari Kaplanspeaking with Nam d Emily.
Fun and Bruno.
Be Castro Pinto, the CEO and seniorproduct leader, respectively at
(07:22):
divinely an AI powered productivitysuite for contract drafting and review.
Nam ddi.
Bruno, thank you so much.
Thank you very much, Ari.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
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