June 20, 2025 • 11 mins
I spoke with Will Seaton, the Chief Customer Officer at DraftWise, Dan Wallace, the Vice President of Sales for the North American Markets at Neota, and Laura Wenzel, the Global Marketing & Insights Director at iManage. The three companies are part of a consortium supporting a new report featuring the perspectives of 31 legal operations leaders, titled "Redefining Legal Operations to Adapt to Uncertainty and Change." We discussed the most compelling results, how legal operations teams are evolving, and the technology trends driving change in an uncertain era.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Reinviting Professionals, a podcast hosted by industry analyst Ari Kaplan,
(00:08):
which shares ideas, guidance and perspectives from market leaders shaping the next generation
of legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speaking today with Will Seaton, the chief customer officer
at Draftwise.
Dan Wallace, the vice president of sales for the North American markets at Neutologic,
(00:29):
and Laura Wenzel, the global marketing and insights director at I Manage.
The three companies are part of a consortium supporting a new report featuring the perspectives
of 31 legal operations leaders, titled redefining legal operations to adapt to uncertainty
and change.
Will Dan Laura, great to speak with you.
(00:49):
Hi, Ari.
Good morning.
84% of the respondents confirm that the role of the legal operations professional has
expanded.
What is changing?
This is our third year doing this research with you, and every year, I continue to be
excited and enthusiastic in terms of the responses for getting from legal leaders.
(01:09):
In this case, their role really is changing, and this research continues to validate that.
It's good to think about how the legal function is evolving and maturing.
They becoming much more proactive and engaging in those very important and critical conversations
around the strategy of the business.
(01:30):
With the emergence of Gen AI, there's a real acknowledgement and this research also flushed
this out that the skill set and the capabilities within the legal operations function is evolving
as well.
They're being challenged to enhance their data analytics capabilities, that strategic
thinking, and also, we're starting to see the emergence of an interest in creating this
(01:55):
knowledge management expertise, which underpins and reinforces the fact that the legal operations
teams are becoming much more mature and much more proactive, participating and driving important
strategic decisions that their business stakeholders have been doing.
Where legal in the past was more reactive task-oriented, this research certainly highlighted
(02:21):
that is maturing and evolving across the different types of enterprises across the board.
What's driving the evolution of legal operations beyond traditional process improvement?
This is one big misconception around the implementation of AI at companies that we should talk more
about.
(02:41):
People say, "AI will help me do my job faster," and while that will be true for some tests,
the potential for learning, the potential to improve what is available to partners within
the business, partners outside of the business, your clients as well, is so great and exciting
with an AI, because it allows people to know more earlier in their career to spend more
(03:03):
time doing analysis on either the risk to the business, the risk of the individual contracts,
the risk present at scale, and how I should respond to that.
So yes, there is a efficiency east that is driving the attractiveness of using some of this
technology and rolling it out, but efficiency is just part of the equation, the quality
of drafting, the quality of review, the safety of contracts and lowering the risk to the
(03:26):
business.
There are all outcomes that will come as a result of implementing AI within your business.
On a scale of one to five, with five being the highest, 48% of the participants rated
the willingness of their professionals, in legal and in the broader enterprise with whom they
collaborate, to learn a new tool that would transform the way they work at a four or a
(03:49):
five is new technology getting easier to learn or our teams just more willing to invest
the time.
Change and change, man, it's been always been a difficult task and people don't like to
change, but it is a growing belief that either you get on the bus or it's going to leave
you behind.
A technology is becoming more advanced, it's becoming easier to use.
(04:10):
There's a simplification about how folks can leverage technology and people are more
comfortable with technologies.
That's going to increase over time and you're going to see even more adoption as folks
continue to engage in technology.
From an automation perspective, whether it's task or workflow, there's an evolution.
A lot of organizations have invested in solutions that are siloed and those silos create friction
(04:33):
or manual effort between them.
The concept of orchestrating the investments that have already been made is really catching
on.
Folks are realizing that the more time or effort they spend in connecting those siloed
solutions they have today, that's going to be the next wave of cross-functional benefits
and efficiencies.
(04:53):
71% of the legal departments represented in this research offer self-service tools for
NDAs and legal intake among other tasks.
What is driving that interest?
The fact that 71% are looking to develop self-service tools, builds on the skill set evolving
and the relationship with their stakeholders moving from this task-oriented reactive legal
(05:18):
function to the strategic partner evaluating the entire business.
As a function of that, legal leaders are building new relationships with adjacent functions,
with ethics and compliance and HR that creates a sense of trust, the notion of creating self-service
tools underpinned by trust, that's what's really driving so many legal leaders developing
(05:44):
these tools.
It's important for all of us to build the right skill set, understand capabilities, limitations
across the board, it's really critical.
How can legal operations teams balance automation with the need for responsible risk management?
Legal operation teams have a chance to better manage risk across their business and the
(06:06):
different departments that they partner with by using new technology like Gen.D.K.I, like
Gen.D.K.I.
to define specific tasks to protect the business that can be completed by agents.
And then focuses them on different design tasks, different strategic tasks, focuses them
on more strategic reviews or risk reviews.
(06:27):
By automating some of the time it takes to do implementation tasks associated with risk
management, you actually can allow people to better risk manage by focusing on bigger questions
that they don't have the time or the availability to answer today.
74% of the participating legal operations leaders reported that they prefer technology
(06:48):
solutions that enable their business units to engage in self-service legal activities.
And 94% would like to automate more tasks.
How are you seeing teams balance automation and innovation with an interest in providing
white-cloth client service?
It's an interesting balancing act.
(07:08):
There's a financial benefit to be able to use these tools to drive automation.
That is attractive to the folks who are making decisions.
There's a pull from clients who are looking for 24/7/365 availability of the functions
they're looking to use.
So it's a delicate balancing act between that personal white-cloth touch and maximizing
the use of technology.
(07:29):
Ultimately, the clients are the ones who are driving it because they want to have that availability
on more of a win-eye, I want to use it as opposed to when it's available.
71% of the respondents are using Gen.D.V.I for tasks like eDiscovery, contract review,
and summarization, how do you see the shift affecting what legal tech vendors are bringing
(07:49):
to market?
AI really is going to be changing the way many of us work.
It definitely accelerates.
It definitely augments.
That being said, there's a lot of height.
There's a lot of conversations around what AI can and cannot do.
But at the end of the day, it's critical for all of us to make sure that when we're developing
(08:09):
AI, you think about the person that's going to be leveraging this capability because AI
can do so many different things in order for it to truly be successful.
You need to take a human-centric approach and make sure that as you bring these capabilities
to market, it aligns with the way that the users are working with Ask I Manage, which is
(08:32):
an AI assistant built within the I Manage work-time platform.
It is built within the workflows that the users conduct every day in a way that is meant
to augment and accelerate, which created alongside users and not just thrown over the wall,
building on that.
The other key component to success with AI is adoption and not making them do something
(08:57):
different.
It is no surprise to me that this research really highlighted the fact that legal leaders
are embracing AI.
Everyone really does see the value.
It's really important to make sure that the approach is appropriate for the use case
that particular tech is targeting.
One of the research participants commented that some of the junior roles in the law department
(09:22):
can be automated with AgenteGai.
With the recent release of your AI associate, how do you see AgenteGai supporting corporate
legal operations teams?
AgenteGai is extremely powerful, and I think some of the tasks that juniors complete today
will be completed by agents in the near future.
(09:43):
Those are tasks that, not even the juniors want to complete, that is what they've been designed
for training purposes, for delegation purposes to do today.
As agents start doing more of that, juniors will be able to do more interesting tasks earlier
in their careers.
We've seen seniors, trainees, lateral transfers, or using draft-wise get more access to knowledge
(10:05):
and have more valuable conversations with their managers, with senior legal leadership
at their teams earlier in their career by accessing that knowledge and that strategic
thinking coming out of AgenteGai.
Some tasks might change, but it opens up an opportunity for juniors roles to actually
become more valuable to the team earlier in their tenure.
And with the year-over-year trends in this research, 39% of the teams I spoke with are building
(10:31):
cross-departmental apps or solutions to help automate broader workflows.
What type of functions are being automated, and how is that affecting the way corporate
legal teams work?
It's a natural evolution of what's taking place.
A lot of organizations started by automating tasks, moved to workflows, and now they're
trying to take these siloed efficiencies and bringing them together to drive even greater
(10:53):
efficiencies.
There's no more cohesion in the way that their customers, whether they're internal or external
or using these types of functionality, it's going to lead to more efficiency, ultimately
at the end of the day, it's going to improve the experience for those who are using them.
This is Ari Kaplan, speaking with Will Seaton, the chief customer officer at draft-wise.
Dan Wallace, the vice president of sales for the North American Market's at Neutologic,
(11:17):
and Laura Wenzel, the global marketing and insights director at I Manage.
The three companies are part of a consortium supporting a new report featuring the perspectives
of 31 legal operations leaders titled redefining legal operations to adapt to uncertainty and
change.
Will, Dan, Laura, thank you so much.
(11:37):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Ari.
Thank you for listening to the Reinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit ReinventingProfessionals.com or Ari Kaplan Advisors.com to learn more.
(upbeat music)
Welcome to Reinviting Professionals, a podcast hosted by industry analyst Ari Kaplan,
(00:08):
which shares ideas, guidance and perspectives from market leaders shaping the next generation
of legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speaking today with Will Seaton, the chief customer officer
at Draftwise.
Dan Wallace, the vice president of sales for the North American markets at Neutologic,
(00:29):
and Laura Wenzel, the global marketing and insights director at I Manage.
The three companies are part of a consortium supporting a new report featuring the perspectives
of 31 legal operations leaders, titled redefining legal operations to adapt to uncertainty
and change.
Will Dan Laura, great to speak with you.
(00:49):
Hi, Ari.
Good morning.
84% of the respondents confirm that the role of the legal operations professional has
expanded.
What is changing?
This is our third year doing this research with you, and every year, I continue to be
excited and enthusiastic in terms of the responses for getting from legal leaders.
(01:09):
In this case, their role really is changing, and this research continues to validate that.
It's good to think about how the legal function is evolving and maturing.
They becoming much more proactive and engaging in those very important and critical conversations
around the strategy of the business.
(01:30):
With the emergence of Gen AI, there's a real acknowledgement and this research also flushed
this out that the skill set and the capabilities within the legal operations function is evolving
as well.
They're being challenged to enhance their data analytics capabilities, that strategic
thinking, and also, we're starting to see the emergence of an interest in creating this
(01:55):
knowledge management expertise, which underpins and reinforces the fact that the legal operations
teams are becoming much more mature and much more proactive, participating and driving important
strategic decisions that their business stakeholders have been doing.
Where legal in the past was more reactive task-oriented, this research certainly highlighted
(02:21):
that is maturing and evolving across the different types of enterprises across the board.
What's driving the evolution of legal operations beyond traditional process improvement?
This is one big misconception around the implementation of AI at companies that we should talk more
about.
(02:41):
People say, "AI will help me do my job faster," and while that will be true for some tests,
the potential for learning, the potential to improve what is available to partners within
the business, partners outside of the business, your clients as well, is so great and exciting
with an AI, because it allows people to know more earlier in their career to spend more
(03:03):
time doing analysis on either the risk to the business, the risk of the individual contracts,
the risk present at scale, and how I should respond to that.
So yes, there is a efficiency east that is driving the attractiveness of using some of this
technology and rolling it out, but efficiency is just part of the equation, the quality
of drafting, the quality of review, the safety of contracts and lowering the risk to the
(03:26):
business.
There are all outcomes that will come as a result of implementing AI within your business.
On a scale of one to five, with five being the highest, 48% of the participants rated
the willingness of their professionals, in legal and in the broader enterprise with whom they
collaborate, to learn a new tool that would transform the way they work at a four or a
(03:49):
five is new technology getting easier to learn or our teams just more willing to invest
the time.
Change and change, man, it's been always been a difficult task and people don't like to
change, but it is a growing belief that either you get on the bus or it's going to leave
you behind.
A technology is becoming more advanced, it's becoming easier to use.
(04:10):
There's a simplification about how folks can leverage technology and people are more
comfortable with technologies.
That's going to increase over time and you're going to see even more adoption as folks
continue to engage in technology.
From an automation perspective, whether it's task or workflow, there's an evolution.
A lot of organizations have invested in solutions that are siloed and those silos create friction
(04:33):
or manual effort between them.
The concept of orchestrating the investments that have already been made is really catching
on.
Folks are realizing that the more time or effort they spend in connecting those siloed
solutions they have today, that's going to be the next wave of cross-functional benefits
and efficiencies.
(04:53):
71% of the legal departments represented in this research offer self-service tools for
NDAs and legal intake among other tasks.
What is driving that interest?
The fact that 71% are looking to develop self-service tools, builds on the skill set evolving
and the relationship with their stakeholders moving from this task-oriented reactive legal
(05:18):
function to the strategic partner evaluating the entire business.
As a function of that, legal leaders are building new relationships with adjacent functions,
with ethics and compliance and HR that creates a sense of trust, the notion of creating self-service
tools underpinned by trust, that's what's really driving so many legal leaders developing
(05:44):
these tools.
It's important for all of us to build the right skill set, understand capabilities, limitations
across the board, it's really critical.
How can legal operations teams balance automation with the need for responsible risk management?
Legal operation teams have a chance to better manage risk across their business and the
(06:06):
different departments that they partner with by using new technology like Gen.D.K.I, like
Gen.D.K.I.
to define specific tasks to protect the business that can be completed by agents.
And then focuses them on different design tasks, different strategic tasks, focuses them
on more strategic reviews or risk reviews.
(06:27):
By automating some of the time it takes to do implementation tasks associated with risk
management, you actually can allow people to better risk manage by focusing on bigger questions
that they don't have the time or the availability to answer today.
74% of the participating legal operations leaders reported that they prefer technology
(06:48):
solutions that enable their business units to engage in self-service legal activities.
And 94% would like to automate more tasks.
How are you seeing teams balance automation and innovation with an interest in providing
white-cloth client service?
It's an interesting balancing act.
(07:08):
There's a financial benefit to be able to use these tools to drive automation.
That is attractive to the folks who are making decisions.
There's a pull from clients who are looking for 24/7/365 availability of the functions
they're looking to use.
So it's a delicate balancing act between that personal white-cloth touch and maximizing
the use of technology.
(07:29):
Ultimately, the clients are the ones who are driving it because they want to have that availability
on more of a win-eye, I want to use it as opposed to when it's available.
71% of the respondents are using Gen.D.V.I for tasks like eDiscovery, contract review,
and summarization, how do you see the shift affecting what legal tech vendors are bringing
(07:49):
to market?
AI really is going to be changing the way many of us work.
It definitely accelerates.
It definitely augments.
That being said, there's a lot of height.
There's a lot of conversations around what AI can and cannot do.
But at the end of the day, it's critical for all of us to make sure that when we're developing
(08:09):
AI, you think about the person that's going to be leveraging this capability because AI
can do so many different things in order for it to truly be successful.
You need to take a human-centric approach and make sure that as you bring these capabilities
to market, it aligns with the way that the users are working with Ask I Manage, which is
(08:32):
an AI assistant built within the I Manage work-time platform.
It is built within the workflows that the users conduct every day in a way that is meant
to augment and accelerate, which created alongside users and not just thrown over the wall,
building on that.
The other key component to success with AI is adoption and not making them do something
(08:57):
different.
It is no surprise to me that this research really highlighted the fact that legal leaders
are embracing AI.
Everyone really does see the value.
It's really important to make sure that the approach is appropriate for the use case
that particular tech is targeting.
One of the research participants commented that some of the junior roles in the law department
(09:22):
can be automated with AgenteGai.
With the recent release of your AI associate, how do you see AgenteGai supporting corporate
legal operations teams?
AgenteGai is extremely powerful, and I think some of the tasks that juniors complete today
will be completed by agents in the near future.
(09:43):
Those are tasks that, not even the juniors want to complete, that is what they've been designed
for training purposes, for delegation purposes to do today.
As agents start doing more of that, juniors will be able to do more interesting tasks earlier
in their careers.
We've seen seniors, trainees, lateral transfers, or using draft-wise get more access to knowledge
(10:05):
and have more valuable conversations with their managers, with senior legal leadership
at their teams earlier in their career by accessing that knowledge and that strategic
thinking coming out of AgenteGai.
Some tasks might change, but it opens up an opportunity for juniors roles to actually
become more valuable to the team earlier in their tenure.
And with the year-over-year trends in this research, 39% of the teams I spoke with are building
(10:31):
cross-departmental apps or solutions to help automate broader workflows.
What type of functions are being automated, and how is that affecting the way corporate
legal teams work?
It's a natural evolution of what's taking place.
A lot of organizations started by automating tasks, moved to workflows, and now they're
trying to take these siloed efficiencies and bringing them together to drive even greater
(10:53):
efficiencies.
There's no more cohesion in the way that their customers, whether they're internal or external
or using these types of functionality, it's going to lead to more efficiency, ultimately
at the end of the day, it's going to improve the experience for those who are using them.
This is Ari Kaplan, speaking with Will Seaton, the chief customer officer at draft-wise.
Dan Wallace, the vice president of sales for the North American Market's at Neutologic,
(11:17):
and Laura Wenzel, the global marketing and insights director at I Manage.
The three companies are part of a consortium supporting a new report featuring the perspectives
of 31 legal operations leaders titled redefining legal operations to adapt to uncertainty and
change.
Will, Dan, Laura, thank you so much.
(11:37):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Ari.
Thank you for listening to the Reinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit ReinventingProfessionals.com or Ari Kaplan Advisors.com to learn more.
(upbeat music)
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