In this 43rd episode of Charting Change in Legal, Caroline Hill, Editor and Publisher of Legal IT Insider, and I discussed aligning human judgment with AI support, advice for those considering law school, and ILTACON.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to charting change in legal. I'm Ari Kaplan and analyst that covers the legal industry
(00:07):
and here was my friend. Apparently no. I'm the editor of Legalite Inside, great to be here.
Ari, how you doing? I'm great. Great to see you. I love the transition. So,
interesting several weeks since we spoke in legal, interesting only because
it has been barely calm. Actually, they say that these days the summer doesn't get quieter.
(00:34):
You know, like this is expression, oh, July and August used to be quiet, and now it's just
this busy. I actually think this year is a little quieter. People are going on holiday.
I don't know what that says, but I feel like there's still plenty of announcements
and news and stuff going on, but it does feel quieter, which is a relief.
Well, I always get the sense that it's sort of in between. In fact, I hosted one of my legal
(00:59):
technopheobrexpheas the last week. It was quite crowded, and I think it's partially, there's nothing
else happening at the time. People are finished with all the amazing events that happen in June.
They're getting ready for the amazing event in terms of Iltecon that will happen in August.
It's an interesting period, though I do get the sense that there's a lot of heads down,
(01:22):
focus work on what really matters. People took back all the things that they picked up
in the spring and are trying to implement it and maybe even share the initial results of what they've
done in the late summer early fall. Yeah, it's a nice way to look at it.
(01:43):
Yes, I think that's what they do. I find a nice way to look at it. Yeah, of course you do.
Little reprieve between the millions of conferences and Iltecon's is tiny reprieve, which is welcome,
I have to say, because it's hard to get any actual work done when you're at conferences 24/7.
(02:05):
Everyone is ramping up for Iltecon. They've obviously, it's quite funny because they've obviously published
various databases. You know when they publish the media database because suddenly the inbox blows up.
Would you like to come to our booth? I find it so overwhelming every year and every year I go,
I think, "I could have done that better and I think I could have seen more people." I feel like...
(02:27):
But yeah, it's kind of fun. I see what on a funny interesting note that you would maybe be
interested in it. So our one listener, Tom, connected me with somebody who is looking to do a
Lord degree. He hasn't even started his degree. He's super young and extremely capable.
(02:49):
We were talking about Tom said, "Could you, could you, Tom Pearson up for a group?"
Could you talk to him about a future in law and what that means and the changing, the shifting
sounds and it was fascinating, super young, very early on, almost too early, really, a little bit,
because... But it was really interesting talking it through with somebody who's just at the very
(03:13):
beginning of thinking about a Lord degree and what I would tell them about what to think about
and what they should study and it felt like a bit of responsibility to be frank. I was just like,
"Okay, well, so everything is changing." Law firms haven't really got it completely figured out
right yet in terms of what your training is going to look like and the impact that tech will have on
(03:33):
it and actually the only thing I can really advise you is to take a strong, have, do a course that
has a very strong tech part of it and just do as much as you can to understand technology
and the Lord. I don't know if you would, would you have said anything different?
When I was at law school, there was some discussion of all the things you can do with a law degree
(03:56):
and the list wasn't really that long. You would be a lawyer, you could work your way up and, you know,
become an elevated lawyer in terms of a partner or some senior role. Maybe you can go in-house. I feel like
as much as I'm not sure how I would feel about encouraging a career in the law, if you're set on
(04:18):
a career in the law, I think they're amazing things that you can do now that just didn't exist before
and you're right. Being interested in technology or almost honing your ability to be curious
and coachable and to learn because every time I ask leaders when I'm sure you have the same
(04:41):
questions when you're interviewing somebody or when I'm featuring someone on the virtual lunch
or wherever, I always ask what are the qualities you're looking for? They don't necessarily say
technical arguments specifically, but they say things that surround it like curiosity and enthusiasm
and adaptability and you can't, you know, they have to apply that to something. So we apply it to
(05:05):
technology, but if someone who's going into the profession tries to hone the sort of skill of
being curious and finding practical ways to demonstrate curiosity and adaptability and real
genuine interest, I think that will really give them an advantage over their peers who are
(05:26):
focused on legal acumen, right? Now, I think that there's an interesting opportunity there for
anyone that's pursuing this to realize that the profession has always been multifaceted, but in
this way, it's sort of multidisciplinary and multifaceted, right? There's this combination there that
(05:47):
you have to figure out how to align. So I think you give great advice.
Yes, that's an advantage. That human element. So that's interesting. I feel like
you're so spot on, curiosity keeps coming up. So Jeremy Coleman just joined contract
poor AI from Northern Roseville, right? He was saying that, and as much, it was a much about the people,
(06:08):
he's obviously a huge fan of the tech, but it's working with people who have that culture of curiosity
and that sort of huge desire for change and obviously the capability, but I feel like when you're
going into the profession, it's hard, isn't it, to demonstrate curiosity on a CV? You know, I agree
with you completely, and this human factor keeps coming up and I did a webinar the other day,
(06:32):
and more and more now we're talking about the human side of technology, and I did this webinar
with net documents where we were talking about the exhaustion of change and how we would, they
were doing, they're like five steps, it was like a masterclass, an AI masterclass, and it was really much
keep putting the human at the centre of everything you do and understand that there is a human there,
(06:55):
and you know, so there's that side of it as well, which keeps coming up. I think for people coming
into the profession, though, just to go back to that, it's interesting because it's hugely competitive.
It's going to get more competitive because you know, what's going to happen to those junior roles?
Like let's be honest, there's going to, there's already an impact, probably, so it's like how do they
differentiate themselves? I feel like they're going to have to have, as well as
(07:18):
putting on paper, I have a culture of curiosity, which is a great point. I feel like they're going
to have to start to really think about how do they develop their tech skills, and obviously hopefully
the classes will start to evolve more and more, you know, the college, that college, etc.
I feel like it's always been a little bit behind, there's some progress, but you know,
I feel like maybe they're going to have to start really thinking about that themselves,
(07:41):
what extra miles do I need to put in in order to really pursue that tech side of things?
And they'll have to, I would imagine, start adding things to their resume, like
having taken random CLE classes that are specifically associated with the large language models,
or some sort of, you know, the change between generative AI and agente AI, or they'll have to
(08:07):
participate, you know, listening on one of your webinars and lists and lists that, and then people
would then people say, "Why would you participate in this webinar?" Aside from its, you know, gifted
host of the webinar, it would be, well, the topic, I'm super curious, and then I think that that would
they would have to add things that beg the question, "Why did you do this?" and the answer
(08:28):
and the conversation then would follow as, "Well, I'm very curious," and I thought it was super
interesting that they were talking about the five steps for this, or how you navigate change
fatigue, and that, you really really bring up a great point, it's fun, we should have more discussions
about what new entrants to the professions should do to position themselves, so I, yeah.
(08:48):
I think that's the thing, we know webinar already, they could join my mum, my mum likes to join
my webinar. She's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got,
true curiosity, and then she goes, "I don't like to drop off because it looks like them people
are leaving, so then she has to, she listens to the whole thing which must make absolutely
amazing." Amazing. There was a time when my mother was the only person who would be on the webinar,
(09:10):
and so, and I'll always be grateful for that, mom. Anyway, look, what a wonderful, I love they
abbreviated the fact that we can punch in incredibly valuable, at least to the two of us, and maybe to
Tom, information, but I think it's important, this is an important topic, I look forward to our
Iltecon prep session in a couple of weeks, and you know, I'm grateful, as always, for the time to
(09:35):
chat with you. So nice to continue, thank you. Thanks everyone. Charity Change Illegal, signing off!
Welcome to charting change in legal. I'm Ari Kaplan and analyst that covers the legal industry
(00:07):
and here was my friend. Apparently no. I'm the editor of Legalite Inside, great to be here.
Ari, how you doing? I'm great. Great to see you. I love the transition. So,
interesting several weeks since we spoke in legal, interesting only because
it has been barely calm. Actually, they say that these days the summer doesn't get quieter.
(00:34):
You know, like this is expression, oh, July and August used to be quiet, and now it's just
this busy. I actually think this year is a little quieter. People are going on holiday.
I don't know what that says, but I feel like there's still plenty of announcements
and news and stuff going on, but it does feel quieter, which is a relief.
Well, I always get the sense that it's sort of in between. In fact, I hosted one of my legal
(00:59):
technopheobrexpheas the last week. It was quite crowded, and I think it's partially, there's nothing
else happening at the time. People are finished with all the amazing events that happen in June.
They're getting ready for the amazing event in terms of Iltecon that will happen in August.
It's an interesting period, though I do get the sense that there's a lot of heads down,
(01:22):
focus work on what really matters. People took back all the things that they picked up
in the spring and are trying to implement it and maybe even share the initial results of what they've
done in the late summer early fall. Yeah, it's a nice way to look at it.
(01:43):
Yes, I think that's what they do. I find a nice way to look at it. Yeah, of course you do.
Little reprieve between the millions of conferences and Iltecon's is tiny reprieve, which is welcome,
I have to say, because it's hard to get any actual work done when you're at conferences 24/7.
(02:05):
Everyone is ramping up for Iltecon. They've obviously, it's quite funny because they've obviously published
various databases. You know when they publish the media database because suddenly the inbox blows up.
Would you like to come to our booth? I find it so overwhelming every year and every year I go,
I think, "I could have done that better and I think I could have seen more people." I feel like...
(02:27):
But yeah, it's kind of fun. I see what on a funny interesting note that you would maybe be
interested in it. So our one listener, Tom, connected me with somebody who is looking to do a
Lord degree. He hasn't even started his degree. He's super young and extremely capable.
(02:49):
We were talking about Tom said, "Could you, could you, Tom Pearson up for a group?"
Could you talk to him about a future in law and what that means and the changing, the shifting
sounds and it was fascinating, super young, very early on, almost too early, really, a little bit,
because... But it was really interesting talking it through with somebody who's just at the very
(03:13):
beginning of thinking about a Lord degree and what I would tell them about what to think about
and what they should study and it felt like a bit of responsibility to be frank. I was just like,
"Okay, well, so everything is changing." Law firms haven't really got it completely figured out
right yet in terms of what your training is going to look like and the impact that tech will have on
(03:33):
it and actually the only thing I can really advise you is to take a strong, have, do a course that
has a very strong tech part of it and just do as much as you can to understand technology
and the Lord. I don't know if you would, would you have said anything different?
When I was at law school, there was some discussion of all the things you can do with a law degree
(03:56):
and the list wasn't really that long. You would be a lawyer, you could work your way up and, you know,
become an elevated lawyer in terms of a partner or some senior role. Maybe you can go in-house. I feel like
as much as I'm not sure how I would feel about encouraging a career in the law, if you're set on
(04:18):
a career in the law, I think they're amazing things that you can do now that just didn't exist before
and you're right. Being interested in technology or almost honing your ability to be curious
and coachable and to learn because every time I ask leaders when I'm sure you have the same
(04:41):
questions when you're interviewing somebody or when I'm featuring someone on the virtual lunch
or wherever, I always ask what are the qualities you're looking for? They don't necessarily say
technical arguments specifically, but they say things that surround it like curiosity and enthusiasm
and adaptability and you can't, you know, they have to apply that to something. So we apply it to
(05:05):
technology, but if someone who's going into the profession tries to hone the sort of skill of
being curious and finding practical ways to demonstrate curiosity and adaptability and real
genuine interest, I think that will really give them an advantage over their peers who are
(05:26):
focused on legal acumen, right? Now, I think that there's an interesting opportunity there for
anyone that's pursuing this to realize that the profession has always been multifaceted, but in
this way, it's sort of multidisciplinary and multifaceted, right? There's this combination there that
(05:47):
you have to figure out how to align. So I think you give great advice.
Yes, that's an advantage. That human element. So that's interesting. I feel like
you're so spot on, curiosity keeps coming up. So Jeremy Coleman just joined contract
poor AI from Northern Roseville, right? He was saying that, and as much, it was a much about the people,
(06:08):
he's obviously a huge fan of the tech, but it's working with people who have that culture of curiosity
and that sort of huge desire for change and obviously the capability, but I feel like when you're
going into the profession, it's hard, isn't it, to demonstrate curiosity on a CV? You know, I agree
with you completely, and this human factor keeps coming up and I did a webinar the other day,
(06:32):
and more and more now we're talking about the human side of technology, and I did this webinar
with net documents where we were talking about the exhaustion of change and how we would, they
were doing, they're like five steps, it was like a masterclass, an AI masterclass, and it was really much
keep putting the human at the centre of everything you do and understand that there is a human there,
(06:55):
and you know, so there's that side of it as well, which keeps coming up. I think for people coming
into the profession, though, just to go back to that, it's interesting because it's hugely competitive.
It's going to get more competitive because you know, what's going to happen to those junior roles?
Like let's be honest, there's going to, there's already an impact, probably, so it's like how do they
differentiate themselves? I feel like they're going to have to have, as well as
(07:18):
putting on paper, I have a culture of curiosity, which is a great point. I feel like they're going
to have to start to really think about how do they develop their tech skills, and obviously hopefully
the classes will start to evolve more and more, you know, the college, that college, etc.
I feel like it's always been a little bit behind, there's some progress, but you know,
I feel like maybe they're going to have to start really thinking about that themselves,
(07:41):
what extra miles do I need to put in in order to really pursue that tech side of things?
And they'll have to, I would imagine, start adding things to their resume, like
having taken random CLE classes that are specifically associated with the large language models,
or some sort of, you know, the change between generative AI and agente AI, or they'll have to
(08:07):
participate, you know, listening on one of your webinars and lists and lists that, and then people
would then people say, "Why would you participate in this webinar?" Aside from its, you know, gifted
host of the webinar, it would be, well, the topic, I'm super curious, and then I think that that would
they would have to add things that beg the question, "Why did you do this?" and the answer
(08:28):
and the conversation then would follow as, "Well, I'm very curious," and I thought it was super
interesting that they were talking about the five steps for this, or how you navigate change
fatigue, and that, you really really bring up a great point, it's fun, we should have more discussions
about what new entrants to the professions should do to position themselves, so I, yeah.
(08:48):
I think that's the thing, we know webinar already, they could join my mum, my mum likes to join
my webinar. She's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got, she's got,
true curiosity, and then she goes, "I don't like to drop off because it looks like them people
are leaving, so then she has to, she listens to the whole thing which must make absolutely
amazing." Amazing. There was a time when my mother was the only person who would be on the webinar,
(09:10):
and so, and I'll always be grateful for that, mom. Anyway, look, what a wonderful, I love they
abbreviated the fact that we can punch in incredibly valuable, at least to the two of us, and maybe to
Tom, information, but I think it's important, this is an important topic, I look forward to our
Iltecon prep session in a couple of weeks, and you know, I'm grateful, as always, for the time to
(09:35):
chat with you. So nice to continue, thank you. Thanks everyone. Charity Change Illegal, signing off!
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