October 13, 2025 • 10 mins
I spoke with Tom Martin, the founder and CEO of LawDroid, an Adjunct Professor teaching Generative AI and the Delivery of Legal Services at Suffolk Law School, and a co-founder of the American Legal Technology Awards. We discussed the most exciting opportunities AI is creating for lawyers, best practices for persuading AI skeptics, the ethical and practical guardrails lawyers should consider, and the objective of the American Legal Technology Awards.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speakingtoday with Tom Martin, the founder and
(00:24):
CEO of Law Droid, and an adjunct professorteaching generative AI and the delivery
of legal services at Suffolk Law School.
Hi Tom.
How are you?
I'm great, Ari.
Thank you for having me on.
It's my privilege.
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
So tell us about your backgroundand the genesis of laroy.
(00:44):
I'm originally, born and raisedin Los Angeles, California.
For the past nine plus years I'vebeen working, founding Laro, a company
that's dedicated to using technologyand of course AI now to help lawyers,
elevate their practice and also todeliver information and virtualized
services to the public at large.
(01:07):
What's been the biggestchallenge in developing Laro?
That's definitely changed over time.
It used to be an extremely hard sellNine plus years ago when I would.
Throw my deck up and talk aboutAI and the future of virtualized
services . A lot of blank stares, a lotof crossed arms , but I think lawyers
have opened their minds to it now.
(01:29):
Is the same true for yourclass, generative AI and the
delivery of legal services?
My students are extremelyenthusiastic but let's not kid
ourselves, they're AI native.
They're already been using thisstuff and it's really about
giving them the proper mindset andframework for using it within legal.
What are the most exciting opportunitiesthat AI is creating for lawyers today?
(01:52):
The number one problem , ormental roadblock that I see a
lot of lawyers have is everyoneis thinking of AI as a product.
They're thinking , I use chat,EPT, I'm using AI, or I use Clot.
I'm using ai.
But a more open-minded, way of thinkingof it is that AI actually helps you
empower and deepen relationshipswith other people, which is a little
(02:16):
antithetical to what people think AI does.
'cause they think it's gonna replace us.
It's gonna, get me out of the picture.
It's gonna disrupt me.
But actually, I think it's fundamentallya way of deepening our relationships
with other people, because it lets usdo more, and by doing more, it lets us
focus on the human part of it, the softerpart of it that is actually more relevant
(02:37):
and powerful for us as human beings.
How does it help enhancethose relationships?
Focus on the stuff that it canautomate that makes it truly human,
where you're providing a lot of value.
And then, besides the busy work, the stuffthat can help you be more creative, that
(02:57):
could help you deepen your relationships,be more aware of everything.
Like I can't keep everyone'sbirthday in my head.
I can't keep all of these touchpoints for other human beings
that I would love to have.
Some people are better at it than others.
I happen not to be so good at thatsocial stuff, 'cause I'm a bit of an
introvert, but imagine being able tohave this co intelligence, like Ethan
(03:19):
Mooch puts it, where it's helpingyou fill in all those gaps and to be
like an fully actualized human being.
That's the promise.
How do you persuade AI skepticsto begin using the technology,
particularly those in legal.
Over the past almost decade thatI've been doing this I don't
(03:42):
focus on convincing the skeptics.
It's a waste of time.
They either get it or they don't.
And it's been very fortunatefor me that it hasn't stopped
me from getting the word out.
I keep going out, I keep talking about thesame stuff and the new ways we could do it
now, but the segment of people that are onthe same page and get it keeps growing and
(04:03):
growing, and now it's grown quite a bit.
What about the ethical or practicalguardrails that lawyers need to adhere to?
I definitely respect thosebecause I'm a lawyer myself.
25 plus years experience, I've representedclients, have my own private practice,
so like I get it and because I getit, I take it seriously in the legal
(04:25):
tech, AI that we use, and there's a fewthings, we're required to do as lawyers
to provide reasonable protection ofprivacy, which you can accomplish by
sSL certificates, encryption when youtransmit data, when you store data.
But also making sure now with AIthat it's not training on the data
that you submit to it by makingsure that you have a plan where you
(04:48):
switch that off and you don't opt in.
And you know that you're careful aboutwhat you share, but I think the mistake
that a lot of lawyers make is that theyassume that if it's something new, then
it's just opening the door to completepublic disclosure of anything you submit.
And that's just not true.
You just need to be smart andalso harken back to how we
(05:13):
handle things in the real world.
We can't guarantee.
Safety and security and privacy.
We have offices, we havelocks on our offices.
Can people break into them is possible,but we take the reasonable precaution
of putting locks on our doors and youhave to take those same reasonable
precautions with AI and being online.
(05:35):
You mentioned having25 years of experience.
How did you make the transitionfrom practice to legal tech?
I've always had tech in my bloodwhen I was like a little kid in, in
great, like even kindergarten, I wasplaying around with computers at 11.
I was doing some basic programmingand it's just something I've
(05:56):
always loved so naturally, likeincorporating it into my practice.
Was just, I thought a way tosave time and, get more done.
So it's been natural.
But about nine years ago, I gotreally inspired about chatbots.
Josh Broder was, 17 at the time inLondon, and he was helping people
fight parking tickets with chatbots.
And I thought, oh man,I gotta get on that.
(06:22):
The American Legal Technology Awardsare taking place this year on Wednesday,
October 15th, 2025, right before Cle Ocon.
What's the objective ofthese acknowledgements?
I have great co-founders Kat Moon,who's a professor at Vanderbilt.
She's amazing.
And Patrick Palace, who ownsPalace Law, which is a workers'
(06:42):
comp firm in Tacoma, Washington.
And he is very inspiring.
We all like compliment each other inwhat we bring to the table and the
reason the three of us founded it wasto bring together the amazing community
of legal tech, people like yourself.
It started out as a small group,but it's grown a lot over time and I
think we all share the same spirit ofcommunity curiosity and having a way
(07:09):
to amplify the good work that peopleare doing seemed a natural thing to do.
And it's just a lot of fun.
Some people call it law promand we just enjoy having it.
How do you see AI supportingaccess to justice?
Immensely.
It's actually one of the focuses goingforward for Laro because there's so much
(07:33):
that is now possible that wasn't before.
It was stuff that I talked about andsome stuff that I was able to deliver on.
But to really be able to deliverlegal information and then discreet
documents and things like that atscale intelligently is something
(07:53):
that wasn't possible before.
And my, my belief is that access tojustice is gonna be vastly expanded
over the next couple of years.
Do you get a sense as a, aninstructor in a law school that
students recognize the likelyimpact of AI on the practice of law?
(08:16):
A thousand percent.
Some of them, are anxious because theyhear a lot of talk about replacing lawyers
and about replacing junior lawyers, andso some of them are nervous about that.
I think the ones that take classeslike mine are less nervous because
they get to understand it betterand the impact and all of that.
I also think that students right now,coming outta law school actually have
(08:36):
a unique advantage because if theydo take courses like mine or Diane
and Larry's or any of the Jenny I lawclasses, it gives them a few steps
ahead and actually makes them muchmore attractive for law firm employers
because the law firms are anxious.
And if there's some junior associate thatcould come in and actually up their game
(08:59):
about ai they've actually made themselvesmore valuable in the marketplace.
How do you see the roleof lawyers evolving?
That's the million dollar question.
A lot of the stuff that we take forgranted a lot of that's gonna be,
automated or made much less hands-onfor a lot of information collection.
Having a call where we're asking 'emroute questions and getting answers
(09:22):
and or having a paralegal do that.
I think that's going away.
There's stuff that we do, that eitherisn't billable or that we've had staff do.
A lot of that will become taken overby ai, but it'll let us focus on the
human relationship, which is hardto focus on when you're so busy.
And also just, generating more business.
(09:44):
And you get to go deeper with legal issueswhen you have more time to think about it.
So I can't state specificallyhow exactly it's gonna change,
but it's gonna drift that way.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with TomMartin, the founder and CEO of law,
Dr. An assistant professor teachinggenerative AI and the delivery of
(10:06):
legal services at Suffolk Law Schooland one of the co-founders of the
American Legal Technology Awards.
Tom, it's really been a privilege.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Ari.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
Welcome to Reinventing Professionals,a podcast hosted by industry analyst
Ari Kaplan, which shares ideas,guidance, and perspectives from market
leaders shaping the next generationof legal and professional services.
This is Ari Kaplan, and I'm speakingtoday with Tom Martin, the founder and
(00:24):
CEO of Law Droid, and an adjunct professorteaching generative AI and the delivery
of legal services at Suffolk Law School.
Hi Tom.
How are you?
I'm great, Ari.
Thank you for having me on.
It's my privilege.
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
So tell us about your backgroundand the genesis of laroy.
(00:44):
I'm originally, born and raisedin Los Angeles, California.
For the past nine plus years I'vebeen working, founding Laro, a company
that's dedicated to using technologyand of course AI now to help lawyers,
elevate their practice and also todeliver information and virtualized
services to the public at large.
(01:07):
What's been the biggestchallenge in developing Laro?
That's definitely changed over time.
It used to be an extremely hard sellNine plus years ago when I would.
Throw my deck up and talk aboutAI and the future of virtualized
services . A lot of blank stares, a lotof crossed arms , but I think lawyers
have opened their minds to it now.
(01:29):
Is the same true for yourclass, generative AI and the
delivery of legal services?
My students are extremelyenthusiastic but let's not kid
ourselves, they're AI native.
They're already been using thisstuff and it's really about
giving them the proper mindset andframework for using it within legal.
What are the most exciting opportunitiesthat AI is creating for lawyers today?
(01:52):
The number one problem , ormental roadblock that I see a
lot of lawyers have is everyoneis thinking of AI as a product.
They're thinking , I use chat,EPT, I'm using AI, or I use Clot.
I'm using ai.
But a more open-minded, way of thinkingof it is that AI actually helps you
empower and deepen relationshipswith other people, which is a little
(02:16):
antithetical to what people think AI does.
'cause they think it's gonna replace us.
It's gonna, get me out of the picture.
It's gonna disrupt me.
But actually, I think it's fundamentallya way of deepening our relationships
with other people, because it lets usdo more, and by doing more, it lets us
focus on the human part of it, the softerpart of it that is actually more relevant
(02:37):
and powerful for us as human beings.
How does it help enhancethose relationships?
Focus on the stuff that it canautomate that makes it truly human,
where you're providing a lot of value.
And then, besides the busy work, the stuffthat can help you be more creative, that
(02:57):
could help you deepen your relationships,be more aware of everything.
Like I can't keep everyone'sbirthday in my head.
I can't keep all of these touchpoints for other human beings
that I would love to have.
Some people are better at it than others.
I happen not to be so good at thatsocial stuff, 'cause I'm a bit of an
introvert, but imagine being able tohave this co intelligence, like Ethan
(03:19):
Mooch puts it, where it's helpingyou fill in all those gaps and to be
like an fully actualized human being.
That's the promise.
How do you persuade AI skepticsto begin using the technology,
particularly those in legal.
Over the past almost decade thatI've been doing this I don't
(03:42):
focus on convincing the skeptics.
It's a waste of time.
They either get it or they don't.
And it's been very fortunatefor me that it hasn't stopped
me from getting the word out.
I keep going out, I keep talking about thesame stuff and the new ways we could do it
now, but the segment of people that are onthe same page and get it keeps growing and
(04:03):
growing, and now it's grown quite a bit.
What about the ethical or practicalguardrails that lawyers need to adhere to?
I definitely respect thosebecause I'm a lawyer myself.
25 plus years experience, I've representedclients, have my own private practice,
so like I get it and because I getit, I take it seriously in the legal
(04:25):
tech, AI that we use, and there's a fewthings, we're required to do as lawyers
to provide reasonable protection ofprivacy, which you can accomplish by
sSL certificates, encryption when youtransmit data, when you store data.
But also making sure now with AIthat it's not training on the data
that you submit to it by makingsure that you have a plan where you
(04:48):
switch that off and you don't opt in.
And you know that you're careful aboutwhat you share, but I think the mistake
that a lot of lawyers make is that theyassume that if it's something new, then
it's just opening the door to completepublic disclosure of anything you submit.
And that's just not true.
You just need to be smart andalso harken back to how we
(05:13):
handle things in the real world.
We can't guarantee.
Safety and security and privacy.
We have offices, we havelocks on our offices.
Can people break into them is possible,but we take the reasonable precaution
of putting locks on our doors and youhave to take those same reasonable
precautions with AI and being online.
(05:35):
You mentioned having25 years of experience.
How did you make the transitionfrom practice to legal tech?
I've always had tech in my bloodwhen I was like a little kid in, in
great, like even kindergarten, I wasplaying around with computers at 11.
I was doing some basic programmingand it's just something I've
(05:56):
always loved so naturally, likeincorporating it into my practice.
Was just, I thought a way tosave time and, get more done.
So it's been natural.
But about nine years ago, I gotreally inspired about chatbots.
Josh Broder was, 17 at the time inLondon, and he was helping people
fight parking tickets with chatbots.
And I thought, oh man,I gotta get on that.
(06:22):
The American Legal Technology Awardsare taking place this year on Wednesday,
October 15th, 2025, right before Cle Ocon.
What's the objective ofthese acknowledgements?
I have great co-founders Kat Moon,who's a professor at Vanderbilt.
She's amazing.
And Patrick Palace, who ownsPalace Law, which is a workers'
(06:42):
comp firm in Tacoma, Washington.
And he is very inspiring.
We all like compliment each other inwhat we bring to the table and the
reason the three of us founded it wasto bring together the amazing community
of legal tech, people like yourself.
It started out as a small group,but it's grown a lot over time and I
think we all share the same spirit ofcommunity curiosity and having a way
(07:09):
to amplify the good work that peopleare doing seemed a natural thing to do.
And it's just a lot of fun.
Some people call it law promand we just enjoy having it.
How do you see AI supportingaccess to justice?
Immensely.
It's actually one of the focuses goingforward for Laro because there's so much
(07:33):
that is now possible that wasn't before.
It was stuff that I talked about andsome stuff that I was able to deliver on.
But to really be able to deliverlegal information and then discreet
documents and things like that atscale intelligently is something
(07:53):
that wasn't possible before.
And my, my belief is that access tojustice is gonna be vastly expanded
over the next couple of years.
Do you get a sense as a, aninstructor in a law school that
students recognize the likelyimpact of AI on the practice of law?
(08:16):
A thousand percent.
Some of them, are anxious because theyhear a lot of talk about replacing lawyers
and about replacing junior lawyers, andso some of them are nervous about that.
I think the ones that take classeslike mine are less nervous because
they get to understand it betterand the impact and all of that.
I also think that students right now,coming outta law school actually have
(08:36):
a unique advantage because if theydo take courses like mine or Diane
and Larry's or any of the Jenny I lawclasses, it gives them a few steps
ahead and actually makes them muchmore attractive for law firm employers
because the law firms are anxious.
And if there's some junior associate thatcould come in and actually up their game
(08:59):
about ai they've actually made themselvesmore valuable in the marketplace.
How do you see the roleof lawyers evolving?
That's the million dollar question.
A lot of the stuff that we take forgranted a lot of that's gonna be,
automated or made much less hands-onfor a lot of information collection.
Having a call where we're asking 'emroute questions and getting answers
(09:22):
and or having a paralegal do that.
I think that's going away.
There's stuff that we do, that eitherisn't billable or that we've had staff do.
A lot of that will become taken overby ai, but it'll let us focus on the
human relationship, which is hardto focus on when you're so busy.
And also just, generating more business.
(09:44):
And you get to go deeper with legal issueswhen you have more time to think about it.
So I can't state specificallyhow exactly it's gonna change,
but it's gonna drift that way.
This is Ari Kaplan speaking with TomMartin, the founder and CEO of law,
Dr. An assistant professor teachinggenerative AI and the delivery of
(10:06):
legal services at Suffolk Law Schooland one of the co-founders of the
American Legal Technology Awards.
Tom, it's really been a privilege.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Ari.
Thank you for listening to theReinventing Professionals Podcast.
Visit reinventing professionals.com orari kaplan advisors.com to learn more.
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