September 11, 2025 • 52 mins
Summary
In this enlightening conversation, Keegan Read and Hanna Kok explore the intricate relationship between mental health, addiction recovery, and self-discovery. Hanna shares her journey of creating the iThrive app, emphasizing the importance of forgiveness, self-acceptance, and the mind-body connection. They discuss how emotional distress manifests in our lives, the role of professional help, and the biological impacts of holding onto grudges. The conversation highlights the significance of recognizing one's worth and the power of self-treatment in achieving emotional freedom and personal growth.
Takeaways
Hanna Kok blends over 30 years of mind-body-spirit integration. The iThrive app was created out of a desire for ease in self-improvement. Affirmations can be more effective when played subliminally during sleep. Forgiveness is not condoning behavior but freeing oneself from grudges. Self-treatment begins with recognizing one's worth and changing self-perception. Familiarity can keep individuals stuck in unhealthy relationships. Signs of emotional distress include unhappiness and sleeplessness. Professional help can guide individuals through deep-seated beliefs. Forgiveness is essential for self-acceptance and healing. Holding grudges can have biological impacts on health.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Mental Health and Healing 01:14 The iThrive App: A New Approach to Healing 04:17 The Power of Affirmations and Subconscious Mind 07:13 Understanding and Removing Limiting Beliefs 10:07 The Connection Between Mind and Body 13:12 Forgiveness: What It Is and What It Isn't 16:06 Self-Value and Its Impact on Relationships 19:11 Changing Your Life from the Inside Out 22:05 The Consequences of Holding Grudges 23:52 The Importance of Addressing Inner Issues 25:44 Recognizing Signs of Emotional Distress 27:42 The Journey Within: Overcoming Feelings of Worthlessness 29:36 Forgiveness: A Path to Self-Acceptance 34:34 The Biological Impact of Holding Grudges 37:00 The Connection Between Mind and Body 40:51 Addressing Multiple Issues in One Session 42:52 Resources for Healing and Self-Discovery 45:56 Addiction: Understanding Love Substitutes 49:17 Finding Hope in Dark Times
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
I don't know what went wrong.
um
live button did come on.
Yeah, for me it said something went wrong, so can we just...
(00:30):
All right, there we go.
I don't know what in the world that was about, but we're here.
and...
(00:57):
Hello hello and welcome back to Retrieving Sanity with your podcast host Keegan and thisis your podcast for all mental health addiction recovery issues and topics and I've got
some questions for you today.
Are you tired of holding on to resentments?
Do you need to make some extra room in your head?
Well today's guest is Hanna Kok uh healer, a coach blending over 30 years of mind bodyspirit integration and she is the founder of The Life You Want and creator of the iThrive
(01:24):
web app.
Hanna empowers people, especially women to reclaim
health, clarity and peace without drugs, surgery or hormone treatments.
Her specialty turning unforgiveness into emotional and physiological liberation.
There we go.
Sorry, I always confuse those words for a little bit.
So let's find out what she's experienced and how she helps people today.
(01:47):
So Hanna, how are you doing?
I'm doing great and thank you so much for this opportunity and also to your listeners,thank you for being here.
It's always great to have someone on the show especially whenever they're helping otherpeople just get better, you know, because it's not often that we come across someone that
(02:07):
is just willing to share stories, right?
Willing to share wisdom just out of the good of their heart.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Like where are from and how you came about creating the iThrive app?
Yes, I love talking about the iThrive app.
It's so close to my heart.
So I'm from the Netherlands originally, just in case people are wondering what my accentcomes from.
(02:32):
And my accent is also bit mixed because I've been living in Southern Africa for 40 yearsnow.
So my English is now a mixture of Dutch and South African English.
uh
I've been, as you mentioned, been into the self-development and especially themind-body-spirit connection field for over 30 years now.
(02:56):
And how I got to doing this iThrive app is laziness.
You I am a great fan of laziness.
Laziness is fantastic as long as you use it to inspire yourself to do something moreeffectively because that is what's...
if you have resistance of doing something that means there could be something better.
(03:19):
And that's what I did.
Yeah, so you know how people tell you you should use affirmations if you want to changeyour life and you have to write them and you have to say them and it's like, so much hard
work.
And so that's where it started.
I was too lazy to do that.
And then on top of that,
(03:41):
I'm trained in three modalities.
I'm trained as an educational kinesiologist, or brain gym in easy words, but it's aboutusing the body to create a shift in your mind and in your attitude.
And then I'm trained as an allergy practitioner how to get rid of your allergy symptoms sothat you don't have to avoid those allergens.
(04:06):
You can be in harmony with them.
And then the third modality is being a medical intuitive.
And when I was trained as an allergy practitioner, then I was taught, okay, you've got towork on the body and you've got to go through this whole process and you've got to go
through this yourself first before you can work on other people.
(04:27):
And it was pretty hard because you work on something and then you have to avoid this foodgroup for 25 hours.
And it's not always that easy.
Like you're not allowed to eat protein for 25 hours and not touch it.
or anything.
And then the next week you work on something else and it was hard work and time consuming.
(04:48):
And then I learned from the theta healing that, hey, you know what, if I have a certainmindset, I will struggle to absorb certain food groups.
So if I don't feel nurtured, I will struggle to absorb protein.
Or if I don't feel loved, I don't...
(05:09):
absorb vitamins so well.
And then I started making these recordings and playing them back.
So instead of saying all these affirmations, I would just play them back subliminallywhile I was sleeping.
And then when I gave this to other people to use, the allergies would go away.
(05:31):
Hmm...
Weird.
and then I've got others as well for addiction and for hormones and all sorts of things.
uh But it's really, the iThrive app came out of laziness because I did not want to writethese affirmations or say them and I also didn't want to spend so much time on them and so
(05:55):
I developed something that I can do while I sleep.
wow.
Huh.
That's really interesting.
it's like, uh would you say that it's similar to like the positive affirmations thatsomeone tells themselves in the mirror?
Yes, but you know, have you noticed with the positive affirmations there are two thingsthat makes it really hard.
(06:18):
One is if you tell yourself something you don't believe, like I love myself or I'm wealthyand then the back chat goes like, yeah, who you're kidding, look at your wallet.
I mean, it's empty and the bank account is red.
I mean, don't kid yourself, you're not wealthy.
And so saying these things
(06:40):
actually remind you of what you don't have and you feel worse afterwards.
Hmm.
Yeah.
because there's a lot of rubbish inside of our head that we tell ourselves and if we don'ttake that out then the new positive affirmations cannot go in.
(07:02):
And so with the iThrive app and this is also what I have as a gift for your listeners withyour iThrive app
There's a lot of things we take out, like your anger and your resentment and yourfrustration and all those things that you've been building up, they are removed with
special release statements.
(07:23):
You release them and then there is room for the new stuff to go in.
Yeah.
And as I said for the listeners then, I have specific topic around hormones, and we cantalk a bit more about hormones just now, but a specific one for hormones, for the unisex
(07:45):
hormones that we have, like your serotonin and dopamine, and there's so many that we have,and um they can get recordings for those hormones to balance them out.
Huh, gotcha.
So you're saying that with the, what you do, you're helping clear out the rubbish beforewe installed the new programming essentially, right?
(08:08):
Exactly, because I mean imagine you have poisonous water and you can put lovely stuff inbut it still tastes, or it's still poisonous and tastes bad.
No matter how much sugar you add or flavorants, if that bitterness is in there you cannotmask it.
So you want to remove that first before you put the nice stuff in.
(08:31):
So how do you start actually removing it though?
um Because a lot of the stuff is usually just really like steep-seated beliefs that comefrom childhood or just repeated experiences over and over and over, you know?
um So how do you actually uninstall that kind of stuff?
How do you delete that rubbish?
(08:52):
Well, with the theta healing what we do is, that's where spirit comes in.
Because our spirit is, and that is not in a religious way, you can do it in whatever fitsin your religious beliefs or uh spiritual beliefs.
But when you call on spirit, first of all, you can ask for help to remove it.
(09:14):
But that is not enough.
If we have a belief, for example, I am...
uh
Worthless.
Say we have that belief.
A lot of people feel like, or I'm not enough.
A belief like that.
then that belief, we're onto it because it's actually working for us.
(09:35):
And people say, no, that's bull dust, man.
That doesn't work for me.
Yes, it does.
Because if I believe I'm worthless, I will know I can now go out of my way to prove tomyself and others how valuable I am.
So I am super, I develop kindness and being considerate of other people or I work veryhard, it's like a motivator.
(10:02):
I do all these wonderful things to prove to myself that I am valuable instead ofworthless.
And so the subconscious mind does not want to let go of that belief because it's afraidthat you're going to lose those virtues that you got out of it.
oooo oh
(10:24):
so with my I-Thrives, I have in there things like, will continue to be kind and helpfuland I'll continue to be motivated even without the belief I'm unworthy.
Hmm.
Okay.
so now the subconscious knows, okay, okay, I can now let go of that belief because I amgoing to continue to be kind and helpful and all of those wonderful things.
(10:49):
And then, I can let go of the belief that I'm unworthy and accept the belief that I'mworthy.
Okay.
Huh.
I Thrives is not just like a six minute loop of words that go around.
One set can be like one and a half to two hours, but you don't have to listen to themconsciously.
(11:12):
You just put them on softly in the background.
You can listen to them if you want to, but you don't have to.
Gotcha.
And so you're saying that it also works really, really well whenever you're asleep, right?
So, ah because that's whenever your subconscious is really taken over,
Absolutely, because when you sleep or even when you are playing them softly in thebackground during the day, the conscious mind, which is that pitchy backchat, is bypassed
(11:44):
and it just slips in through the back door and you're then way more susceptible to thosenew ideas.
Definitely, definitely.
Okay, okay, so whenever we're sitting here doing these kind of beliefs and switchingeverything up, how does that really work with like hormonal changes or like the
(12:05):
neurotransmitters and stuff like that?
Because isn't that something that you do medicine or food or exercise for?
It's not just a mind game, right?
No, wrong.
It's not just food and exercise, but that is what people think.
People think that I can only change bodily things by changing my diet and lifestylechanges.
(12:26):
But what if you're already doing those things and it's not working?
Or what if you don't want to do those things because you just don't like them?
You don't like to eat those foods or you don't like to exercise or something like that?
Now I'm not saying that exercise and...
is not important.
I love my exercise and I like eating healthily but you do it because you want to and notbecause you have to.
(12:52):
So how is that connection?
Let me explain.
You can explain it on different levels.
Have you heard of meridians?
know, when you go, so for your listeners, know when you go to the acupuncturists theystick these needles all over the place to get the...
the life force flowing through your body, through the meridians.
(13:14):
Like we have the arteries and the veins for the blood, we have the meridians for the lifeforce.
And we have a certain amount of life force going through the body every day, but thosemeridians are like hosepipes.
They can be contracted or they can be opened.
(13:35):
And certain beliefs will contract
the flow or inhibit the flow of that meridian and others will open them.
And there are 14 major meridians and 12 of them are linked to your organs and one of themis linked, is called the circulation 6 meridian, it's linked to the heart sac and the
(14:06):
thing that inhibits the flow of that meridian
is holding grudges.
And the thing to open it up is forgiveness.
And holding grudges can be one of those things that weigh down a lot of people and itleads to really bad things in a lot of cases.
(14:31):
so forgiveness is usually one of those things that people will just say, well, you just goand say, do you forgive me or I forgive you?
And that's kind of it, right?
But there's so much more to forgiveness.
So how do you define forgiveness and how do you lead people to it?
Because a lot of people don't know what to do with it.
(14:51):
Well, let's first talk about what is not forgiveness.
So forgiveness does not mean that we condone people's behavior.
Forgiveness does not mean that you have to let the person that you have forgiven back intoyour life.
Forgiveness does not mean that you have to talk to that other person.
(15:14):
You don't have to forgive them in person and you never have to talk to them again if youdon't want to.
Mm-hmm.
mean that you have to forget what happened.
You can learn from what happened.
So those are just some things of what is not forgiveness.
It's also not something that you do for somebody else.
Like I'm setting you free because I've forgiven you.
(15:36):
You know what?
That other person, it's also not a method, holding back forgiveness is also not a methodof um punishing somebody else.
or keeping them at arm's length because those are reasons why people don't forgive peoplebecause they think, well, that's a way of protecting myself.
Yeah, yeah.
(15:57):
But the opposite is true.
If I hold on to my grudge towards a person, first of all it's like trying to poison thatother person while drinking the poison myself.
I'm the one that have these poisonous emotions running through the body that are affectingmy cells in my body, making me ill.
(16:23):
The other person might not even know that I'm upset with them.
Yeah.
got on with their life, right?
That other person can even be dead.
I've seen that, that people are still holding onto a grudge that somebody died 10 yearsago or something that happened to their ancestors, you know.
(16:46):
Mm.
So what is forgiveness then, if it's not those things that I just said?
First of all, it is about accepting what happened.
It happened.
I can't change it.
I don't have to approve of it, but I've got to acknowledge that it happened.
(17:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
to let it go.
Mmm.
However, the interesting thing is that people treat us the way we treat ourselves.
So, if I treat myself badly, like to come back to what I talked about earlier aboutfeeling unworthy, if I feel unworthy or unlovable, I'm going to attract people to me that
(17:37):
will treat me just like that.
They will be...
won't value me, they won't really love me, and now I'm upset with them because they aretreating me the way I was treating myself.
Hmm...
Okay.
So if I want to change things, the key is to start changing me and the way I treat myself.
(18:03):
And that's also another reason why I created the iThrives, because I'm now starting tochange the way I think about myself and about my life, and then other people start
treating me differently as well.
Gotcha.
But isn't it so strange that even though we may treat ourselves and talk about ourselves acertain way because we think that we're unworthy and all that, but we develop these
(18:29):
virtues to attract people that may actually treat us like we're worth it and it backfires?
Is that kind of how that goes?
That's a really good point.
This is a really good point.
So, it is backfiring.
Let me put that clear.
(18:50):
So if I feel unworthy, then I will want to prove with my kindness that I'm worthy.
And I will attract somebody that will be demanding of me to be super kind.
And that's when you get your...
abusive partner or this, what is this narcissist that everybody talks about that you endup having in your life.
(19:15):
You attract it that, I know it's really hard to hear, but if you can hear what I'm goingto say then you know the powers in your hand.
Because people are our mirrors.
Okay, so if I don't like that reflection that I am looking at, well who do I have tochange?
(19:37):
Me.
If I don't like the way I look, I've got to change my hair or my makeup or put otherclothes on.
That's the only way my reflection is going to change.
So if I want to attract people that do value me, it can only happen if I value me.
(19:59):
Hmm, okay, so man, so that makes it really hard for some people though because Doesn'tthat carry the same thing as if we're shedding off some old beliefs because maybe that
person that is treating us badly Actually is doing something good at the same time andwe're afraid of losing that security possibly or is it just Familiarity that we're holding
(20:23):
on to in that sense And of course I'm
familiarity.
Yeah, carry on.
I was going to say it's different for each situation, but like the general vibes, I guess.
But like you said, familiarity is kind of what keeps us stuck, I guess.
Definitely, familiarity does keep us stuck.
(20:45):
However, if we change, then it's one of four things that can happen to that relationship.
That other person could disappear gracefully out of our lives.
Now, if it is a partner or a child or a person we really care about, we don't want thatoption.
(21:06):
And I can tell you now...
I often have seen relationships improve that were abusive without having to leave.
Okay?
So, and I have seen it more than once.
I see it over and over again.
Even sexual abuse, physical abuse, it stops like that when you change how you treatyourself and keep investing in you and treating yourself with the respect that you want.
(21:37):
you will get it from others.
Okay.
The whole thing is about start treating yourself the way you want to be treated.
people say, I can't do that because it's expensive.
It doesn't have to be expensive.
(21:58):
How do we treat ourselves with the way we want to be treated?
Make some time for yourself to be quiet.
Ooh.
Yeah.
the iThrives that you can get as a free gift from me and in there is also a little courseon forgiveness if they want that.
It is in there as an extra bonus.
(22:21):
those are really two things that cost nothing.
Make time for you.
Voice your opinion.
Not in an aggressive way.
Just say look this is what you want, this is what...
I want, how can we bring the two together?
But most people don't even voice what they want.
(22:42):
They don't even know what they want.
yeah, then that's hard to do, right?
If you don't know what you want, then it's hard to even find a voice.
And if you feel like you don't have a voice and you may feel like you're not worthy offinding something to even have a voice about.
You summed it up perfectly there.
That is now you've got a really bad loop going on there if you're in that phase.
(23:06):
And the only way out, if you want to change your life, the only way out is from the insideout.
You've got to change inside the way you think about yourself, the things you focus on.
That is going to determine how your tomorrow looks like.
Hmm and so it's not something again that's like a Pill where you can just do it once andyou're good to go and like everything like that because Everyone nowadays looking for that
(23:38):
quick fix, you know So but that's kind of thing too is that if we're in this hole itdidn't happen overnight either, right?
It's something that we had to build unfortunately
You know what is interesting now, thinking of the pill and then being in a hole.
When you use a pill to solve your problems, say you're not in a deep hole and you'remiserable, and you take a pill, all what happens, you're still in that hole.
(24:08):
You just don't realize it.
And then you either have to take that pill for the rest of your life, which often happens,
Mm-hmm.
what more likely is going to happen, you're going to feel you're going to get into adeeper hole because you're still digging, you know.
And this is what we see is if you have, say, hormonal problems.
(24:35):
If you, because you're having grudges and you're not forgiving.
Now, this is something that eats at you.
I always say it's not so much about what you eat.
It's more about what eats you.
Hmm.
Okay.
huh.
have these things that are eating at you and you don't take, give it attention, you don'tresolve this conflict, it's just going to grow and fester.
(25:01):
It's like a wound.
If you've got a splinter, you don't take the splinter out, it's going to pass and getreally ugly.
And if you just keep putting plasters on and maybe it takes you some anti-pain and stuff,but you don't remove that splinter, that is...
could turn into gangrene and you could lose a leg.
(25:23):
It's the same a lot of times when you hold on to a grudge and you start with small things.
It might be you can't sleep.
That's why it often starts.
That's an indication that something is bugging you.
You just take a sleeping pill so you forget about it.
But it's still there.
Now your hormones go out of balance or you'll have another uh minor health problem.
(25:48):
Mm-hmm.
You don't address it, you just take some pills.
Now it has to come back because it's your soul trying to give you it, screaming at you forattention to resolve this and you don't do it.
And then you'll end up with a major illness that grinds you to a halt and everything stopsbecause you have to deal with this major illness.
(26:11):
And that can be prevented if you deal with your issues while they're relatively small.
Oh, yeah.
And it's really interesting that it just builds up like that because it doesn't reallyjust sit there.
again, doesn't necessarily happen overnight.
I'm sure there are cases where extreme stress and stuff like that does actually causesomething like uh I'm forgetting the word right now, so I'm not going to dig for it.
(26:40):
But uh it's something that we sit there and it feels almost
instantaneous whenever we look back at how everything just kind of fell into place andthen trying to get out.
It's one of those things where looking up it's like, that's a long way to go.
How am I going to do that?
You know?
(27:01):
And so what you're saying is the small steps is really the best kind of steps out, right?
Not one giant leap.
It's something a little bit at a time.
I'm saying that definitely and once you're in that hole you might need to get some helpbecause that hole is so deep you need somebody to give you a ladder to climb out so you
(27:23):
could get a coach or like somebody like me or somebody else definitely can save you somuch time because you cannot dig yourself out but I'm also saying is start realizing sure
but I'm digging a hole here and and
and get out of it while you still need deep in there and you can still step out.
(27:48):
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, so how, how, what are some of the signs that someone is digging a hole without themreally realizing it?
You're unhappy is the first sign.
You're unhappy, you can't sleep.
Those are two signs.
Or you have this thing milling in your head going over and you go like, why, why, why doesthis happen?
(28:13):
Those could be already bigger things, but definitely you can't sleep and you're unhappy.
There's something bugging you because it's our nature, in our nature is to be happy.
That's our natural state of being.
OK, so, eye.
(28:33):
Hmm.
I never really thought about it that way before.
It's weird, isn't it?
So it's kind of like we're sitting there and our life is kind of like an acre of a fieldor something and we have these little holes or something that we may just stumble upon and
like get it.
Like we're out of that one real quick and easy can backfill it or whatever.
(28:55):
And then other ones we just kind of trip into and we're just kind of down there for a bit.
um
So, oh man, so if someone is really unhappy with something, it is that look of fromwithin, just find out what is within yourself that is kind of unhappy, right?
(29:15):
Now, absolutely, absolutely, and it only can be resolved from within.
The problem is a lot of people don't like to go within because they are afraid to find outthat they're useless, worthless, a nobody, because that's what we learned when we grew up.
(29:37):
And I know you work with addictions, right?
And it's those things.
that we now try to avoid acknowledging or looking at, that we then try to numb with anaddiction or to hide it with an addiction.
But if you realize, no, this is just, it's my fear-based ego self-talking.
(30:02):
We have a part in us that is beautiful and kind and loving, it's connected with thedivine, because I do work with spirit to make changes.
in a non-religious way.
And when you start connecting with that and you realize who you really are, then there'snothing to be scared of.
(30:24):
There's nothing you can find in there that is not worth finding.
You you maybe have to throw some rubbish out, but there's a lot of gold and beauty inthere.
So what do you say to the people that
think that they're just so not worthy that they can't even accept themselves, right?
(30:44):
Because isn't that what stops people from accepting themselves?
Because they just maybe are so deep seated in they're not worthy that even if theyunderstood themselves or maybe they're afraid that they won't understand who they really
are.
And so it kind of makes them go like, I'm not going to go what I don't know.
Right?
Because it's fear of the unknown.
(31:06):
Like how are they supposed to know who they are?
if they thought they knew who they were this whole time.
Hmm, now that's an interesting question.
So let me see, how do you do it when you're in that state, that you believe you're sounworthy?
I'm going to come back to my iThrives.
(31:28):
They can definitely assist with changing some of those beliefs by letting go of a lot ofthings.
And then forgiveness is also extremely important, because what
made us believe that we were unworthy.
Maybe we did something when we were young or other people did something to us when we wereyoung that made us believe that we were unworthy.
(31:52):
And it's about...
And then you really do need some help.
You need some professional help, uh support to guide you through those, past thoselandmines because you want to...
somebody that knows...
how to shift those deep-seated beliefs, how to reframe some of the things that happened toyou when you were younger.
(32:21):
Now, the problem is with regular talk therapy, you just end up reliving your traumas andyou're going to be stuck in that trauma for even longer and you're going to rehash it all
and feel hurt all over again.
So you want to go to somebody
like I do, I'm not saying you have to come to me, but of course, you're welcome to, ofcourse.
(32:44):
But what we do is we go and see what is going on, what happened in your life, and wereframe it.
For example, a lot of kids feel they were not wanted, and they might not have been wanted.
So when the parents found out that they were expecting you as the baby, they went like...
(33:06):
huh.
no, you know, maybe they were not married or they didn't have the finances or something orthey even gave you up for adoption.
Who knows what they did.
But to realize it was...
So that's what I do when I work with a person.
It's not about they didn't want you.
They just didn't know how to deal with parenthood.
(33:28):
They didn't reject you as an individual, but they didn't know how to be a parent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you can forgive them for that.
You can forgive yourself for causing stress for your parents because you came unannouncedwhen you thought it was time to come, not when they thought you should be coming.
(33:52):
And then forgive yourself for believing, for misinterpreting this event as that you'reunworthy.
Hmm, okay.
Yeah, that's a really powerful way to reframe that whole uh Scenario because a lot of thetimes I know for myself Whenever I was going through rehab and I was in therapy I had a
(34:16):
breakthrough moment and where I was just like oh, holy shit like uh my parents were At thesame age I am while I'm in the rehab and I don't have any kids, but they already had three
kids
Like I'm still figuring my stuff out.
Like how am I supposed to expect them to have their stuff together and still be providersand all this?
(34:36):
So it really just shook me.
was like, I can't really be mad at them anymore because they were doing their damnedest,you know, like they were doing their absolute best that they could.
So, but that's probably the thing is that I haven't forgiven myself on some of that stuff.
I just realized that.
wanted to say, I'm so glad you brought that up because I was going to say that because weoften forgive other people but we forget to forgive ourselves for the role we play in that
(35:08):
situation and that can be the role you play as an unborn fetus.
Mm.
Yeah.
Huh.
your spirit is fully aware of what's going on.
It knows what's going on and it knows exactly how your parents reacted when they found outthey were pregnant.
Yeah.
And then you've got to...
(35:29):
I've seen it with my clients that when they forgive themselves for causing stress fortheir parents by arriving uninvited, of course they were invited because if you do this
birds and bees stuff you're inviting something to come, right?
(35:50):
As far as I know, I'm a biology teacher, I should know.
No, I'm just joking.
But...
uh
But the whole thing is we need to forgive ourselves for the role we played and the stressthat we caused.
And sometimes the relationship breaks up because of our arrival, then we need to forgiveourselves for breaking up that relationship as well.
(36:13):
And clients have told me the relief they found from forgiving themselves.
At first they go like, well, why should I forgive myself?
I said, let's just do the exercise.
huh
relief afterwards, then you know you needed it.
And if you feel nothing, we spend two minutes on it.
And 90 % of them feel so much better after forgiving themselves for
(36:38):
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
when I work with a client, we don't take like five sessions to work on one issue.
We'll work maybe three issues in one session because it is quick.
You don't have to rehash the story.
Uh-huh.
Mmm.
Yeah, I think I definitely need to work on forgiving myself on some of those things,because like as soon as I noticed that and as soon as you were talking about it, it was
(37:05):
like, yeah, that that's the next step of something that I probably needed to do for awhile.
um Which there's a bunch of different areas to forgive oneself, right?
um And it's not necessarily a blanket statement of I forgive myself.
You kind of have to get a little specific with it, don't you?
I do like to be specific, yes.
(37:27):
The more specific you can be, the better, because what happens is, on a biological level,when you hold a grudge, then your body creates uh neuropeptides for these emotions and
they will hook onto the cell membrane and trigger reactions in the cell.
(37:49):
A stress response if you're holding a grudge, which then...
negatively impacts the health of the cell because now it goes into stress mode.
And that neuropeptide will stay there until you resolve it.
So when you forgive yourself for a specific thing, it can unlock.
(38:11):
I'm sure if you forgive yourself blankedly because you don't know what happened, by allmeans, blankness forgiveness is better than nothing.
Yeah, yeah.
if you can be specific, the more specific you are, the more you're unpicking and lettinggo.
And then the cells can go back to a healthy state because they now undo the stressresponse.
(38:35):
And if you're happy, then they can start being healthier and you'll have more energy,you'll have more life force, you'll age more, age more gracefully.
all the things that we want that we're trying to resolve with eating healthily andexercise.
Mm-hmm.
will happen if you do the forgiveness work.
(38:58):
And if you then eat healthily and do the exercise on top of it, you're smiling.
Then that's a real path to happiness, I guess.
And uh thank you for going into the whole like uh biological aspect of how that worksbecause someone I spoke with recently, they said that someone else said that the
(39:21):
subconscious mind is the body in a sense, I guess.
And I was like, Ooh.
I never thought about it that way.
And so that would make sense that if you actually have stuff like that develop underneathcertain conditions, that if you recreate that condition or whatever, then your body knows
what you're talking about.
(39:42):
So that would make sense of why you'd have to get specific in that sense.
uh Interesting.
I mean, just think of it if you have a problem.
You know you have a problem.
And if you say, OK, well, the problem is solved, but you didn't know really what theproblem was.
(40:03):
But if I said, well, you have a problem because you did not forgive yourself about whatyou just did with your parents, for example, then you say, oh, I know.
I know what it is, I can imagine it, can picture it, and you can be so specific.
(40:24):
And it's like, instead of taking a multivitamin, laser focus going in and give the bodyexactly what it needs and pull it out.
Taking out that splinter, yes.
It's like taking out that one particular splinter and then, yeah.
Okay.
Hmm.
(40:45):
So I guess uh one of my questions has to be like, how many times have you come acrosssomeone that just had a whole bunch of splinters in one spot?
and what would have caused all those splinters in the one spot.
Hmm themselves really right
So you mean they might have specific traumas all linked around specific incidences?
(41:11):
Yeah, that can happen.
Yeah, that can happen.
And then we just go, that's why I say, I'll do several issues in one session and we'lljust go to like, okay, for example, what can happen that you were unwanted because you
shocked your parents by arriving.
It could be they were fighting during pregnancy, you had some birth trauma on top of it,uh and some abandonment issues afterwards.
(41:39):
And then you can address all of those things by reframing each one, forgiving yourself andthe other people for each one.
And so you take out all the splinters.
And that can be, it's not five different doctors visits, it's just one session.
When you go to the doctor, he's not going to take out one and say, back next week.
you can take them all out.
(42:01):
Yeah, well the American healthcare system, the doctor might do that nowadays,unfortunately.
yeah, Yes, thankfully.
um And it does make sense to tackle...
um
(42:22):
Like if you're in a hole to go ahead and address as many issues that are in that hole atthe same time, right?
Because it's one of those things about talk therapy for me was that, like you said,whenever it's like we dig deep and we get to an issue, it doesn't necessarily get resolved
all the time.
It's like, I'm back here again.
And then whenever that one is kind of covered up, it's like, wait, there, I left somethingdown there and I have to dig some more stuff up.
(42:47):
And it's like, Oh, well, didn't, I forgot about that.
And here we go again.
uh But you're saying that you can actually just take care of something uh right and almostlike taking out the root like a weed, right?
Definitely, however it can happen that you go back, but not necessarily the next time, butthen it's a different aspect of it and it's not like...
(43:13):
Because I always say, you you only need to dig if you trip over something.
So you can dig something up, take it out with a root and then maybe a piece of the rootwas left behind.
Well, if it's not bothering anybody, just leave it there.
But if it starts to grow and something comes up,
when you go back there it will never be the same exact same issue maybe be the same eventbut maybe for example like in my situation I was hospitalized as a young baby I
(43:45):
misinterpreted that as abandonment and then I needed to go back to let go of the beliefthat I was abandoned but then another time I go back there because what happened was
you know, when you're that small and you're all of a sudden all alone in hospital and tiedup, then you maybe think, uh well, you cut off your emotions.
(44:11):
Like, I can't trust anybody because here they are and then they're gone.
So now it's difficult to form relationships.
So then I go back there and say, okay, but you know what, let's visualize it differentlybecause we can actually create a different memory around it.
by like, you know what, but the angels were there and they left me there not because theydidn't want me but because you know, I was sick and I had to be there and then you can
(44:41):
create a whole new story around what really happened so that I can now trust forminghealthy relationships with others.
So I did revisit it but it was not the abandonment issues, it was now a bit of a trustissue.
But it's not that I'm digging every week.
huh.
one day and then maybe a year later, it came up again.
(45:03):
huh.
Okay.
Interesting.
uh So real quick, where can everyone find you?
Because this ah is one of those things that is just really powerful stuff.
And I think a lot of people need to know all about it.
So thank you for coming on the show again, by the way.
It's absolute pleasure, thank you for having me and the audience also.
(45:28):
Now, the best is to go to claim that free gift.
Those iThrives that I have, it includes those forgiveness scores if you want it, you don'thave to use it, but by all means sign up for the iThrives because it takes two minutes out
of your time, you just put it on, you can listen to them audibly if you want to, if youwant to hear what I'm saying, but you don't have to.
(45:52):
play them as a whisper.
And then you can get those by going to hannacook.com.
for the people that I don't know if they can see my name, Hanna, I know English peoplelove the H at the end, so you can either go to Hanna with the H or without the H, and the
surname is KOK.com.
(46:14):
And then you can go to the sign up page there and get these iThrivez, they are...
for male and female so for the men you definitely can also benefit from this and and thenyou'll be in contact with me automatically you'll have my email address you'll have Yeah,
(46:38):
and then that's it.
That's the link Absolutely, or you can go to hannacock.com it will take you to that pageas well So cool
I typed it in because I was like, I had the I thrive dot zone ready to go.
And then I was like, oh, I wasn't sure about the Hannecock dot com.
And so I went there and it just popped in.
I thrive.
And I was like, OK, cool.
(46:59):
Nice redirect.
Yes, yes, because it's so much easier to just spell my name for people than...
Yeah, but...
I really...
It's just a no-brainer to use something so simple.
I play my...
Look, I developed the app for me.
I listen to them every day.
(47:20):
So...
And there many subjects, but you get the hormone ones.
And there are other subjects that are part of a paid version, but you can always decide tosign up for that.
including in there is one for addiction actually in the paid version.
um
Well, thank you for the gift for us and the listeners and everything because this issomething that I think uh can actually do a whole lot of real good because it's something
(47:47):
that people can do for themselves and they can do it at their own pace.
They don't have to feel obligated or anything like that.
And so I think that that really creates that good uh road to healing, you know.
Absolutely, and especially for people with addiction.
That forgiveness is key.
(48:08):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
and others for whatever happened to you that you have been trying to numb with whateveryou use as your addiction, if it's a substance or shopping or food or money or whatever it
is.
You've got to come to a point that you can accept yourself warts and all and that's aninside job.
(48:30):
Yeah.
Um, real quick, uh, there was someone that, uh, I interviewed not too long ago and theyhad said, uh, something about, uh, just addictions and they labeled a few of them like
Netflix, porn, substances and alcohol and stuff like that.
And to me that makes total sense, but someone left a comment on the video saying like toclassify Netflix and porn in the same category as substance abuse is insane.
(48:58):
And I'm sitting here like, no, it's not because addiction is addiction.
Would you agree or...
I totally agree.
The thing is that certain things don't have to be an addiction.
Like watching Netflix doesn't have to be addiction.
Even watching porn does not have to be an addiction.
But as soon as it costs you more than money, as soon as it's starting to destroy yourrelationships, your health, your finances, it's an addiction and then they're all in the
(49:31):
same category and they are all
love substitutes.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, that's a really good way to put that.
Huh.
Huh.
why go for a love substitute if you can get the real thing?
And the real thing comes from loving yourself and having some sort of connection with thedivine that is bigger than you.
(49:59):
I mean, I know in the 12 steps they talk about that too, right?
But it does not have to be in a religious way.
But they found the people that are the happiest are the ones that have a...
trusting, supportive, divine connection.
Yes.
(50:19):
Hmm.
I love that.
um and, oh, you've, you really labeled, like what an addiction is really well.
Like if it costs more than money, like, I never thought about it that way.
And you're entirely right.
If it costs anything more than money, then it is a problem for starters.
And if it's a repeated problem, then it becomes an addiction very quick.
(50:42):
Ooh, and a substitute for love.
I never thought about it that way either.
And I'd have to say that even like early on in my early recovery, I didn't have a wholelot of self worth and self love going on.
And so it was like kind of that dry drunk kind of thing going on.
But then I started really working on myself and self love started really showing up.
(51:03):
And I was like, oh, I see what it's kind of about now.
Like what recovery is really about.
So um real quick, I
know that you do have something that you have to get going for, but do you have any wordsfor our audience today that you wanna leave them with?
Something that is just, I don't know, off the top of your head, deep in the heart,anything like that?
(51:31):
No matter how dark the hole you feel you're in, getting out of it is not nearly as hard asyou think.
It's one step at a time.
And it starts with making time for you.
(51:52):
And if you, there are so many free products and services out there, if you're not capableof paying for some service, but you are worth it.
The fact that you are here means you're worth it.
So, and it's really not that.
Yeah.
(52:14):
Thank you for that.
um And I also have to ask, do you think that we could see you on the show again in thefuture?
Because I don't know if we've really dug all the way down as far as we can go with this.
I thrive and everything else.
And I'd love to just hear all about it.
I love to do that, absolutely.
And I'm also busy writing or rewriting the second edition of my book, Better or Better.
(52:39):
It's your choice and it's about uh creating a guide for a happy ever after living.
yeah, I would love to be back.
It be great.
Sweet.
Well, I'm looking forward to that a whole bunch and I really appreciate you being on theshow.
It's an honor and a pleasure.
(52:59):
And I just know that everyone's going to get something out of going to ithrive.zone andorhanacock.com.
and just figuring out what they need for themselves and being able to actually really justactually take steps towards get better in themselves.
It's awesome.
So thank you for this.
(53:19):
ah It's been a really enlightening conversation and I've loved it and I'm looking forwardto our next one.
Thank you very much Keegan for having me.
Thank you, see you next time.
Okay.
everyone out there.
Everyone out there.
Thank you for listening to Retrieving Sanity on WDJY 99.1 FM.
And as always, love yourself.
(53:41):
Love those next to you if you can.
But you got to love yourself first.
And we will see you next week.
So just stay cool.
Not clammy.
I was about to say clammy.
Don't stay clammy.
That's not a good sign.
So y'all just stay chilly out there.
cool and connected.
Ooh, cool and connected.
like that.
Thank you.
(54:02):
So everyone out there, see you next week.
Slánka fó!
And there we go.
Perfect.
Thank you.
That's a perfect...
I don't know what went wrong.
um
live button did come on.
Yeah, for me it said something went wrong, so can we just...
(00:30):
All right, there we go.
I don't know what in the world that was about, but we're here.
and...
(00:57):
Hello hello and welcome back to Retrieving Sanity with your podcast host Keegan and thisis your podcast for all mental health addiction recovery issues and topics and I've got
some questions for you today.
Are you tired of holding on to resentments?
Do you need to make some extra room in your head?
Well today's guest is Hanna Kok uh healer, a coach blending over 30 years of mind bodyspirit integration and she is the founder of The Life You Want and creator of the iThrive
(01:24):
web app.
Hanna empowers people, especially women to reclaim
health, clarity and peace without drugs, surgery or hormone treatments.
Her specialty turning unforgiveness into emotional and physiological liberation.
There we go.
Sorry, I always confuse those words for a little bit.
So let's find out what she's experienced and how she helps people today.
(01:47):
So Hanna, how are you doing?
I'm doing great and thank you so much for this opportunity and also to your listeners,thank you for being here.
It's always great to have someone on the show especially whenever they're helping otherpeople just get better, you know, because it's not often that we come across someone that
(02:07):
is just willing to share stories, right?
Willing to share wisdom just out of the good of their heart.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Like where are from and how you came about creating the iThrive app?
Yes, I love talking about the iThrive app.
It's so close to my heart.
So I'm from the Netherlands originally, just in case people are wondering what my accentcomes from.
(02:32):
And my accent is also bit mixed because I've been living in Southern Africa for 40 yearsnow.
So my English is now a mixture of Dutch and South African English.
uh
I've been, as you mentioned, been into the self-development and especially themind-body-spirit connection field for over 30 years now.
(02:56):
And how I got to doing this iThrive app is laziness.
You I am a great fan of laziness.
Laziness is fantastic as long as you use it to inspire yourself to do something moreeffectively because that is what's...
if you have resistance of doing something that means there could be something better.
(03:19):
And that's what I did.
Yeah, so you know how people tell you you should use affirmations if you want to changeyour life and you have to write them and you have to say them and it's like, so much hard
work.
And so that's where it started.
I was too lazy to do that.
And then on top of that,
(03:41):
I'm trained in three modalities.
I'm trained as an educational kinesiologist, or brain gym in easy words, but it's aboutusing the body to create a shift in your mind and in your attitude.
And then I'm trained as an allergy practitioner how to get rid of your allergy symptoms sothat you don't have to avoid those allergens.
(04:06):
You can be in harmony with them.
And then the third modality is being a medical intuitive.
And when I was trained as an allergy practitioner, then I was taught, okay, you've got towork on the body and you've got to go through this whole process and you've got to go
through this yourself first before you can work on other people.
(04:27):
And it was pretty hard because you work on something and then you have to avoid this foodgroup for 25 hours.
And it's not always that easy.
Like you're not allowed to eat protein for 25 hours and not touch it.
or anything.
And then the next week you work on something else and it was hard work and time consuming.
(04:48):
And then I learned from the theta healing that, hey, you know what, if I have a certainmindset, I will struggle to absorb certain food groups.
So if I don't feel nurtured, I will struggle to absorb protein.
Or if I don't feel loved, I don't...
(05:09):
absorb vitamins so well.
And then I started making these recordings and playing them back.
So instead of saying all these affirmations, I would just play them back subliminallywhile I was sleeping.
And then when I gave this to other people to use, the allergies would go away.
(05:31):
Hmm...
Weird.
and then I've got others as well for addiction and for hormones and all sorts of things.
uh But it's really, the iThrive app came out of laziness because I did not want to writethese affirmations or say them and I also didn't want to spend so much time on them and so
(05:55):
I developed something that I can do while I sleep.
wow.
Huh.
That's really interesting.
it's like, uh would you say that it's similar to like the positive affirmations thatsomeone tells themselves in the mirror?
Yes, but you know, have you noticed with the positive affirmations there are two thingsthat makes it really hard.
(06:18):
One is if you tell yourself something you don't believe, like I love myself or I'm wealthyand then the back chat goes like, yeah, who you're kidding, look at your wallet.
I mean, it's empty and the bank account is red.
I mean, don't kid yourself, you're not wealthy.
And so saying these things
(06:40):
actually remind you of what you don't have and you feel worse afterwards.
Hmm.
Yeah.
because there's a lot of rubbish inside of our head that we tell ourselves and if we don'ttake that out then the new positive affirmations cannot go in.
(07:02):
And so with the iThrive app and this is also what I have as a gift for your listeners withyour iThrive app
There's a lot of things we take out, like your anger and your resentment and yourfrustration and all those things that you've been building up, they are removed with
special release statements.
(07:23):
You release them and then there is room for the new stuff to go in.
Yeah.
And as I said for the listeners then, I have specific topic around hormones, and we cantalk a bit more about hormones just now, but a specific one for hormones, for the unisex
(07:45):
hormones that we have, like your serotonin and dopamine, and there's so many that we have,and um they can get recordings for those hormones to balance them out.
Huh, gotcha.
So you're saying that with the, what you do, you're helping clear out the rubbish beforewe installed the new programming essentially, right?
(08:08):
Exactly, because I mean imagine you have poisonous water and you can put lovely stuff inbut it still tastes, or it's still poisonous and tastes bad.
No matter how much sugar you add or flavorants, if that bitterness is in there you cannotmask it.
So you want to remove that first before you put the nice stuff in.
(08:31):
So how do you start actually removing it though?
um Because a lot of the stuff is usually just really like steep-seated beliefs that comefrom childhood or just repeated experiences over and over and over, you know?
um So how do you actually uninstall that kind of stuff?
How do you delete that rubbish?
(08:52):
Well, with the theta healing what we do is, that's where spirit comes in.
Because our spirit is, and that is not in a religious way, you can do it in whatever fitsin your religious beliefs or uh spiritual beliefs.
But when you call on spirit, first of all, you can ask for help to remove it.
(09:14):
But that is not enough.
If we have a belief, for example, I am...
uh
Worthless.
Say we have that belief.
A lot of people feel like, or I'm not enough.
A belief like that.
then that belief, we're onto it because it's actually working for us.
(09:35):
And people say, no, that's bull dust, man.
That doesn't work for me.
Yes, it does.
Because if I believe I'm worthless, I will know I can now go out of my way to prove tomyself and others how valuable I am.
So I am super, I develop kindness and being considerate of other people or I work veryhard, it's like a motivator.
(10:02):
I do all these wonderful things to prove to myself that I am valuable instead ofworthless.
And so the subconscious mind does not want to let go of that belief because it's afraidthat you're going to lose those virtues that you got out of it.
oooo oh
(10:24):
so with my I-Thrives, I have in there things like, will continue to be kind and helpfuland I'll continue to be motivated even without the belief I'm unworthy.
Hmm.
Okay.
so now the subconscious knows, okay, okay, I can now let go of that belief because I amgoing to continue to be kind and helpful and all of those wonderful things.
(10:49):
And then, I can let go of the belief that I'm unworthy and accept the belief that I'mworthy.
Okay.
Huh.
I Thrives is not just like a six minute loop of words that go around.
One set can be like one and a half to two hours, but you don't have to listen to themconsciously.
(11:12):
You just put them on softly in the background.
You can listen to them if you want to, but you don't have to.
Gotcha.
And so you're saying that it also works really, really well whenever you're asleep, right?
So, ah because that's whenever your subconscious is really taken over,
Absolutely, because when you sleep or even when you are playing them softly in thebackground during the day, the conscious mind, which is that pitchy backchat, is bypassed
(11:44):
and it just slips in through the back door and you're then way more susceptible to thosenew ideas.
Definitely, definitely.
Okay, okay, so whenever we're sitting here doing these kind of beliefs and switchingeverything up, how does that really work with like hormonal changes or like the
(12:05):
neurotransmitters and stuff like that?
Because isn't that something that you do medicine or food or exercise for?
It's not just a mind game, right?
No, wrong.
It's not just food and exercise, but that is what people think.
People think that I can only change bodily things by changing my diet and lifestylechanges.
(12:26):
But what if you're already doing those things and it's not working?
Or what if you don't want to do those things because you just don't like them?
You don't like to eat those foods or you don't like to exercise or something like that?
Now I'm not saying that exercise and...
is not important.
I love my exercise and I like eating healthily but you do it because you want to and notbecause you have to.
(12:52):
So how is that connection?
Let me explain.
You can explain it on different levels.
Have you heard of meridians?
know, when you go, so for your listeners, know when you go to the acupuncturists theystick these needles all over the place to get the...
the life force flowing through your body, through the meridians.
(13:14):
Like we have the arteries and the veins for the blood, we have the meridians for the lifeforce.
And we have a certain amount of life force going through the body every day, but thosemeridians are like hosepipes.
They can be contracted or they can be opened.
(13:35):
And certain beliefs will contract
the flow or inhibit the flow of that meridian and others will open them.
And there are 14 major meridians and 12 of them are linked to your organs and one of themis linked, is called the circulation 6 meridian, it's linked to the heart sac and the
(14:06):
thing that inhibits the flow of that meridian
is holding grudges.
And the thing to open it up is forgiveness.
And holding grudges can be one of those things that weigh down a lot of people and itleads to really bad things in a lot of cases.
(14:31):
so forgiveness is usually one of those things that people will just say, well, you just goand say, do you forgive me or I forgive you?
And that's kind of it, right?
But there's so much more to forgiveness.
So how do you define forgiveness and how do you lead people to it?
Because a lot of people don't know what to do with it.
(14:51):
Well, let's first talk about what is not forgiveness.
So forgiveness does not mean that we condone people's behavior.
Forgiveness does not mean that you have to let the person that you have forgiven back intoyour life.
Forgiveness does not mean that you have to talk to that other person.
(15:14):
You don't have to forgive them in person and you never have to talk to them again if youdon't want to.
Mm-hmm.
mean that you have to forget what happened.
You can learn from what happened.
So those are just some things of what is not forgiveness.
It's also not something that you do for somebody else.
Like I'm setting you free because I've forgiven you.
(15:36):
You know what?
That other person, it's also not a method, holding back forgiveness is also not a methodof um punishing somebody else.
or keeping them at arm's length because those are reasons why people don't forgive peoplebecause they think, well, that's a way of protecting myself.
Yeah, yeah.
(15:57):
But the opposite is true.
If I hold on to my grudge towards a person, first of all it's like trying to poison thatother person while drinking the poison myself.
I'm the one that have these poisonous emotions running through the body that are affectingmy cells in my body, making me ill.
(16:23):
The other person might not even know that I'm upset with them.
Yeah.
got on with their life, right?
That other person can even be dead.
I've seen that, that people are still holding onto a grudge that somebody died 10 yearsago or something that happened to their ancestors, you know.
(16:46):
Mm.
So what is forgiveness then, if it's not those things that I just said?
First of all, it is about accepting what happened.
It happened.
I can't change it.
I don't have to approve of it, but I've got to acknowledge that it happened.
(17:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
to let it go.
Mmm.
However, the interesting thing is that people treat us the way we treat ourselves.
So, if I treat myself badly, like to come back to what I talked about earlier aboutfeeling unworthy, if I feel unworthy or unlovable, I'm going to attract people to me that
(17:37):
will treat me just like that.
They will be...
won't value me, they won't really love me, and now I'm upset with them because they aretreating me the way I was treating myself.
Hmm...
Okay.
So if I want to change things, the key is to start changing me and the way I treat myself.
(18:03):
And that's also another reason why I created the iThrives, because I'm now starting tochange the way I think about myself and about my life, and then other people start
treating me differently as well.
Gotcha.
But isn't it so strange that even though we may treat ourselves and talk about ourselves acertain way because we think that we're unworthy and all that, but we develop these
(18:29):
virtues to attract people that may actually treat us like we're worth it and it backfires?
Is that kind of how that goes?
That's a really good point.
This is a really good point.
So, it is backfiring.
Let me put that clear.
(18:50):
So if I feel unworthy, then I will want to prove with my kindness that I'm worthy.
And I will attract somebody that will be demanding of me to be super kind.
And that's when you get your...
abusive partner or this, what is this narcissist that everybody talks about that you endup having in your life.
(19:15):
You attract it that, I know it's really hard to hear, but if you can hear what I'm goingto say then you know the powers in your hand.
Because people are our mirrors.
Okay, so if I don't like that reflection that I am looking at, well who do I have tochange?
(19:37):
Me.
If I don't like the way I look, I've got to change my hair or my makeup or put otherclothes on.
That's the only way my reflection is going to change.
So if I want to attract people that do value me, it can only happen if I value me.
(19:59):
Hmm, okay, so man, so that makes it really hard for some people though because Doesn'tthat carry the same thing as if we're shedding off some old beliefs because maybe that
person that is treating us badly Actually is doing something good at the same time andwe're afraid of losing that security possibly or is it just Familiarity that we're holding
(20:23):
on to in that sense And of course I'm
familiarity.
Yeah, carry on.
I was going to say it's different for each situation, but like the general vibes, I guess.
But like you said, familiarity is kind of what keeps us stuck, I guess.
Definitely, familiarity does keep us stuck.
(20:45):
However, if we change, then it's one of four things that can happen to that relationship.
That other person could disappear gracefully out of our lives.
Now, if it is a partner or a child or a person we really care about, we don't want thatoption.
(21:06):
And I can tell you now...
I often have seen relationships improve that were abusive without having to leave.
Okay?
So, and I have seen it more than once.
I see it over and over again.
Even sexual abuse, physical abuse, it stops like that when you change how you treatyourself and keep investing in you and treating yourself with the respect that you want.
(21:37):
you will get it from others.
Okay.
The whole thing is about start treating yourself the way you want to be treated.
people say, I can't do that because it's expensive.
It doesn't have to be expensive.
(21:58):
How do we treat ourselves with the way we want to be treated?
Make some time for yourself to be quiet.
Ooh.
Yeah.
the iThrives that you can get as a free gift from me and in there is also a little courseon forgiveness if they want that.
It is in there as an extra bonus.
(22:21):
those are really two things that cost nothing.
Make time for you.
Voice your opinion.
Not in an aggressive way.
Just say look this is what you want, this is what...
I want, how can we bring the two together?
But most people don't even voice what they want.
(22:42):
They don't even know what they want.
yeah, then that's hard to do, right?
If you don't know what you want, then it's hard to even find a voice.
And if you feel like you don't have a voice and you may feel like you're not worthy offinding something to even have a voice about.
You summed it up perfectly there.
That is now you've got a really bad loop going on there if you're in that phase.
(23:06):
And the only way out, if you want to change your life, the only way out is from the insideout.
You've got to change inside the way you think about yourself, the things you focus on.
That is going to determine how your tomorrow looks like.
Hmm and so it's not something again that's like a Pill where you can just do it once andyou're good to go and like everything like that because Everyone nowadays looking for that
(23:38):
quick fix, you know So but that's kind of thing too is that if we're in this hole itdidn't happen overnight either, right?
It's something that we had to build unfortunately
You know what is interesting now, thinking of the pill and then being in a hole.
When you use a pill to solve your problems, say you're not in a deep hole and you'remiserable, and you take a pill, all what happens, you're still in that hole.
(24:08):
You just don't realize it.
And then you either have to take that pill for the rest of your life, which often happens,
Mm-hmm.
what more likely is going to happen, you're going to feel you're going to get into adeeper hole because you're still digging, you know.
And this is what we see is if you have, say, hormonal problems.
(24:35):
If you, because you're having grudges and you're not forgiving.
Now, this is something that eats at you.
I always say it's not so much about what you eat.
It's more about what eats you.
Hmm.
Okay.
huh.
have these things that are eating at you and you don't take, give it attention, you don'tresolve this conflict, it's just going to grow and fester.
(25:01):
It's like a wound.
If you've got a splinter, you don't take the splinter out, it's going to pass and getreally ugly.
And if you just keep putting plasters on and maybe it takes you some anti-pain and stuff,but you don't remove that splinter, that is...
could turn into gangrene and you could lose a leg.
(25:23):
It's the same a lot of times when you hold on to a grudge and you start with small things.
It might be you can't sleep.
That's why it often starts.
That's an indication that something is bugging you.
You just take a sleeping pill so you forget about it.
But it's still there.
Now your hormones go out of balance or you'll have another uh minor health problem.
(25:48):
Mm-hmm.
You don't address it, you just take some pills.
Now it has to come back because it's your soul trying to give you it, screaming at you forattention to resolve this and you don't do it.
And then you'll end up with a major illness that grinds you to a halt and everything stopsbecause you have to deal with this major illness.
(26:11):
And that can be prevented if you deal with your issues while they're relatively small.
Oh, yeah.
And it's really interesting that it just builds up like that because it doesn't reallyjust sit there.
again, doesn't necessarily happen overnight.
I'm sure there are cases where extreme stress and stuff like that does actually causesomething like uh I'm forgetting the word right now, so I'm not going to dig for it.
(26:40):
But uh it's something that we sit there and it feels almost
instantaneous whenever we look back at how everything just kind of fell into place andthen trying to get out.
It's one of those things where looking up it's like, that's a long way to go.
How am I going to do that?
You know?
(27:01):
And so what you're saying is the small steps is really the best kind of steps out, right?
Not one giant leap.
It's something a little bit at a time.
I'm saying that definitely and once you're in that hole you might need to get some helpbecause that hole is so deep you need somebody to give you a ladder to climb out so you
(27:23):
could get a coach or like somebody like me or somebody else definitely can save you somuch time because you cannot dig yourself out but I'm also saying is start realizing sure
but I'm digging a hole here and and
and get out of it while you still need deep in there and you can still step out.
(27:48):
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, so how, how, what are some of the signs that someone is digging a hole without themreally realizing it?
You're unhappy is the first sign.
You're unhappy, you can't sleep.
Those are two signs.
Or you have this thing milling in your head going over and you go like, why, why, why doesthis happen?
(28:13):
Those could be already bigger things, but definitely you can't sleep and you're unhappy.
There's something bugging you because it's our nature, in our nature is to be happy.
That's our natural state of being.
OK, so, eye.
(28:33):
Hmm.
I never really thought about it that way before.
It's weird, isn't it?
So it's kind of like we're sitting there and our life is kind of like an acre of a fieldor something and we have these little holes or something that we may just stumble upon and
like get it.
Like we're out of that one real quick and easy can backfill it or whatever.
(28:55):
And then other ones we just kind of trip into and we're just kind of down there for a bit.
um
So, oh man, so if someone is really unhappy with something, it is that look of fromwithin, just find out what is within yourself that is kind of unhappy, right?
(29:15):
Now, absolutely, absolutely, and it only can be resolved from within.
The problem is a lot of people don't like to go within because they are afraid to find outthat they're useless, worthless, a nobody, because that's what we learned when we grew up.
(29:37):
And I know you work with addictions, right?
And it's those things.
that we now try to avoid acknowledging or looking at, that we then try to numb with anaddiction or to hide it with an addiction.
But if you realize, no, this is just, it's my fear-based ego self-talking.
(30:02):
We have a part in us that is beautiful and kind and loving, it's connected with thedivine, because I do work with spirit to make changes.
in a non-religious way.
And when you start connecting with that and you realize who you really are, then there'snothing to be scared of.
(30:24):
There's nothing you can find in there that is not worth finding.
You you maybe have to throw some rubbish out, but there's a lot of gold and beauty inthere.
So what do you say to the people that
think that they're just so not worthy that they can't even accept themselves, right?
(30:44):
Because isn't that what stops people from accepting themselves?
Because they just maybe are so deep seated in they're not worthy that even if theyunderstood themselves or maybe they're afraid that they won't understand who they really
are.
And so it kind of makes them go like, I'm not going to go what I don't know.
Right?
Because it's fear of the unknown.
(31:06):
Like how are they supposed to know who they are?
if they thought they knew who they were this whole time.
Hmm, now that's an interesting question.
So let me see, how do you do it when you're in that state, that you believe you're sounworthy?
I'm going to come back to my iThrives.
(31:28):
They can definitely assist with changing some of those beliefs by letting go of a lot ofthings.
And then forgiveness is also extremely important, because what
made us believe that we were unworthy.
Maybe we did something when we were young or other people did something to us when we wereyoung that made us believe that we were unworthy.
(31:52):
And it's about...
And then you really do need some help.
You need some professional help, uh support to guide you through those, past thoselandmines because you want to...
somebody that knows...
how to shift those deep-seated beliefs, how to reframe some of the things that happened toyou when you were younger.
(32:21):
Now, the problem is with regular talk therapy, you just end up reliving your traumas andyou're going to be stuck in that trauma for even longer and you're going to rehash it all
and feel hurt all over again.
So you want to go to somebody
like I do, I'm not saying you have to come to me, but of course, you're welcome to, ofcourse.
(32:44):
But what we do is we go and see what is going on, what happened in your life, and wereframe it.
For example, a lot of kids feel they were not wanted, and they might not have been wanted.
So when the parents found out that they were expecting you as the baby, they went like...
(33:06):
huh.
no, you know, maybe they were not married or they didn't have the finances or something orthey even gave you up for adoption.
Who knows what they did.
But to realize it was...
So that's what I do when I work with a person.
It's not about they didn't want you.
They just didn't know how to deal with parenthood.
(33:28):
They didn't reject you as an individual, but they didn't know how to be a parent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you can forgive them for that.
You can forgive yourself for causing stress for your parents because you came unannouncedwhen you thought it was time to come, not when they thought you should be coming.
(33:52):
And then forgive yourself for believing, for misinterpreting this event as that you'reunworthy.
Hmm, okay.
Yeah, that's a really powerful way to reframe that whole uh Scenario because a lot of thetimes I know for myself Whenever I was going through rehab and I was in therapy I had a
(34:16):
breakthrough moment and where I was just like oh, holy shit like uh my parents were At thesame age I am while I'm in the rehab and I don't have any kids, but they already had three
kids
Like I'm still figuring my stuff out.
Like how am I supposed to expect them to have their stuff together and still be providersand all this?
(34:36):
So it really just shook me.
was like, I can't really be mad at them anymore because they were doing their damnedest,you know, like they were doing their absolute best that they could.
So, but that's probably the thing is that I haven't forgiven myself on some of that stuff.
I just realized that.
wanted to say, I'm so glad you brought that up because I was going to say that because weoften forgive other people but we forget to forgive ourselves for the role we play in that
(35:08):
situation and that can be the role you play as an unborn fetus.
Mm.
Yeah.
Huh.
your spirit is fully aware of what's going on.
It knows what's going on and it knows exactly how your parents reacted when they found outthey were pregnant.
Yeah.
And then you've got to...
(35:29):
I've seen it with my clients that when they forgive themselves for causing stress fortheir parents by arriving uninvited, of course they were invited because if you do this
birds and bees stuff you're inviting something to come, right?
(35:50):
As far as I know, I'm a biology teacher, I should know.
No, I'm just joking.
But...
uh
But the whole thing is we need to forgive ourselves for the role we played and the stressthat we caused.
And sometimes the relationship breaks up because of our arrival, then we need to forgiveourselves for breaking up that relationship as well.
(36:13):
And clients have told me the relief they found from forgiving themselves.
At first they go like, well, why should I forgive myself?
I said, let's just do the exercise.
huh
relief afterwards, then you know you needed it.
And if you feel nothing, we spend two minutes on it.
And 90 % of them feel so much better after forgiving themselves for
(36:38):
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
when I work with a client, we don't take like five sessions to work on one issue.
We'll work maybe three issues in one session because it is quick.
You don't have to rehash the story.
Uh-huh.
Mmm.
Yeah, I think I definitely need to work on forgiving myself on some of those things,because like as soon as I noticed that and as soon as you were talking about it, it was
(37:05):
like, yeah, that that's the next step of something that I probably needed to do for awhile.
um Which there's a bunch of different areas to forgive oneself, right?
um And it's not necessarily a blanket statement of I forgive myself.
You kind of have to get a little specific with it, don't you?
I do like to be specific, yes.
(37:27):
The more specific you can be, the better, because what happens is, on a biological level,when you hold a grudge, then your body creates uh neuropeptides for these emotions and
they will hook onto the cell membrane and trigger reactions in the cell.
(37:49):
A stress response if you're holding a grudge, which then...
negatively impacts the health of the cell because now it goes into stress mode.
And that neuropeptide will stay there until you resolve it.
So when you forgive yourself for a specific thing, it can unlock.
(38:11):
I'm sure if you forgive yourself blankedly because you don't know what happened, by allmeans, blankness forgiveness is better than nothing.
Yeah, yeah.
if you can be specific, the more specific you are, the more you're unpicking and lettinggo.
And then the cells can go back to a healthy state because they now undo the stressresponse.
(38:35):
And if you're happy, then they can start being healthier and you'll have more energy,you'll have more life force, you'll age more, age more gracefully.
all the things that we want that we're trying to resolve with eating healthily andexercise.
Mm-hmm.
will happen if you do the forgiveness work.
(38:58):
And if you then eat healthily and do the exercise on top of it, you're smiling.
Then that's a real path to happiness, I guess.
And uh thank you for going into the whole like uh biological aspect of how that worksbecause someone I spoke with recently, they said that someone else said that the
(39:21):
subconscious mind is the body in a sense, I guess.
And I was like, Ooh.
I never thought about it that way.
And so that would make sense that if you actually have stuff like that develop underneathcertain conditions, that if you recreate that condition or whatever, then your body knows
what you're talking about.
(39:42):
So that would make sense of why you'd have to get specific in that sense.
uh Interesting.
I mean, just think of it if you have a problem.
You know you have a problem.
And if you say, OK, well, the problem is solved, but you didn't know really what theproblem was.
(40:03):
But if I said, well, you have a problem because you did not forgive yourself about whatyou just did with your parents, for example, then you say, oh, I know.
I know what it is, I can imagine it, can picture it, and you can be so specific.
(40:24):
And it's like, instead of taking a multivitamin, laser focus going in and give the bodyexactly what it needs and pull it out.
Taking out that splinter, yes.
It's like taking out that one particular splinter and then, yeah.
Okay.
Hmm.
(40:45):
So I guess uh one of my questions has to be like, how many times have you come acrosssomeone that just had a whole bunch of splinters in one spot?
and what would have caused all those splinters in the one spot.
Hmm themselves really right
So you mean they might have specific traumas all linked around specific incidences?
(41:11):
Yeah, that can happen.
Yeah, that can happen.
And then we just go, that's why I say, I'll do several issues in one session and we'lljust go to like, okay, for example, what can happen that you were unwanted because you
shocked your parents by arriving.
It could be they were fighting during pregnancy, you had some birth trauma on top of it,uh and some abandonment issues afterwards.
(41:39):
And then you can address all of those things by reframing each one, forgiving yourself andthe other people for each one.
And so you take out all the splinters.
And that can be, it's not five different doctors visits, it's just one session.
When you go to the doctor, he's not going to take out one and say, back next week.
you can take them all out.
(42:01):
Yeah, well the American healthcare system, the doctor might do that nowadays,unfortunately.
yeah, Yes, thankfully.
um And it does make sense to tackle...
um
(42:22):
Like if you're in a hole to go ahead and address as many issues that are in that hole atthe same time, right?
Because it's one of those things about talk therapy for me was that, like you said,whenever it's like we dig deep and we get to an issue, it doesn't necessarily get resolved
all the time.
It's like, I'm back here again.
And then whenever that one is kind of covered up, it's like, wait, there, I left somethingdown there and I have to dig some more stuff up.
(42:47):
And it's like, Oh, well, didn't, I forgot about that.
And here we go again.
uh But you're saying that you can actually just take care of something uh right and almostlike taking out the root like a weed, right?
Definitely, however it can happen that you go back, but not necessarily the next time, butthen it's a different aspect of it and it's not like...
(43:13):
Because I always say, you you only need to dig if you trip over something.
So you can dig something up, take it out with a root and then maybe a piece of the rootwas left behind.
Well, if it's not bothering anybody, just leave it there.
But if it starts to grow and something comes up,
when you go back there it will never be the same exact same issue maybe be the same eventbut maybe for example like in my situation I was hospitalized as a young baby I
(43:45):
misinterpreted that as abandonment and then I needed to go back to let go of the beliefthat I was abandoned but then another time I go back there because what happened was
you know, when you're that small and you're all of a sudden all alone in hospital and tiedup, then you maybe think, uh well, you cut off your emotions.
(44:11):
Like, I can't trust anybody because here they are and then they're gone.
So now it's difficult to form relationships.
So then I go back there and say, okay, but you know what, let's visualize it differentlybecause we can actually create a different memory around it.
by like, you know what, but the angels were there and they left me there not because theydidn't want me but because you know, I was sick and I had to be there and then you can
(44:41):
create a whole new story around what really happened so that I can now trust forminghealthy relationships with others.
So I did revisit it but it was not the abandonment issues, it was now a bit of a trustissue.
But it's not that I'm digging every week.
huh.
one day and then maybe a year later, it came up again.
(45:03):
huh.
Okay.
Interesting.
uh So real quick, where can everyone find you?
Because this ah is one of those things that is just really powerful stuff.
And I think a lot of people need to know all about it.
So thank you for coming on the show again, by the way.
It's absolute pleasure, thank you for having me and the audience also.
(45:28):
Now, the best is to go to claim that free gift.
Those iThrives that I have, it includes those forgiveness scores if you want it, you don'thave to use it, but by all means sign up for the iThrives because it takes two minutes out
of your time, you just put it on, you can listen to them audibly if you want to, if youwant to hear what I'm saying, but you don't have to.
(45:52):
play them as a whisper.
And then you can get those by going to hannacook.com.
for the people that I don't know if they can see my name, Hanna, I know English peoplelove the H at the end, so you can either go to Hanna with the H or without the H, and the
surname is KOK.com.
(46:14):
And then you can go to the sign up page there and get these iThrivez, they are...
for male and female so for the men you definitely can also benefit from this and and thenyou'll be in contact with me automatically you'll have my email address you'll have Yeah,
(46:38):
and then that's it.
That's the link Absolutely, or you can go to hannacock.com it will take you to that pageas well So cool
I typed it in because I was like, I had the I thrive dot zone ready to go.
And then I was like, oh, I wasn't sure about the Hannecock dot com.
And so I went there and it just popped in.
I thrive.
And I was like, OK, cool.
(46:59):
Nice redirect.
Yes, yes, because it's so much easier to just spell my name for people than...
Yeah, but...
I really...
It's just a no-brainer to use something so simple.
I play my...
Look, I developed the app for me.
I listen to them every day.
(47:20):
So...
And there many subjects, but you get the hormone ones.
And there are other subjects that are part of a paid version, but you can always decide tosign up for that.
including in there is one for addiction actually in the paid version.
um
Well, thank you for the gift for us and the listeners and everything because this issomething that I think uh can actually do a whole lot of real good because it's something
(47:47):
that people can do for themselves and they can do it at their own pace.
They don't have to feel obligated or anything like that.
And so I think that that really creates that good uh road to healing, you know.
Absolutely, and especially for people with addiction.
That forgiveness is key.
(48:08):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
and others for whatever happened to you that you have been trying to numb with whateveryou use as your addiction, if it's a substance or shopping or food or money or whatever it
is.
You've got to come to a point that you can accept yourself warts and all and that's aninside job.
(48:30):
Yeah.
Um, real quick, uh, there was someone that, uh, I interviewed not too long ago and theyhad said, uh, something about, uh, just addictions and they labeled a few of them like
Netflix, porn, substances and alcohol and stuff like that.
And to me that makes total sense, but someone left a comment on the video saying like toclassify Netflix and porn in the same category as substance abuse is insane.
(48:58):
And I'm sitting here like, no, it's not because addiction is addiction.
Would you agree or...
I totally agree.
The thing is that certain things don't have to be an addiction.
Like watching Netflix doesn't have to be addiction.
Even watching porn does not have to be an addiction.
But as soon as it costs you more than money, as soon as it's starting to destroy yourrelationships, your health, your finances, it's an addiction and then they're all in the
(49:31):
same category and they are all
love substitutes.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, that's a really good way to put that.
Huh.
Huh.
why go for a love substitute if you can get the real thing?
And the real thing comes from loving yourself and having some sort of connection with thedivine that is bigger than you.
(49:59):
I mean, I know in the 12 steps they talk about that too, right?
But it does not have to be in a religious way.
But they found the people that are the happiest are the ones that have a...
trusting, supportive, divine connection.
Yes.
(50:19):
Hmm.
I love that.
um and, oh, you've, you really labeled, like what an addiction is really well.
Like if it costs more than money, like, I never thought about it that way.
And you're entirely right.
If it costs anything more than money, then it is a problem for starters.
And if it's a repeated problem, then it becomes an addiction very quick.
(50:42):
Ooh, and a substitute for love.
I never thought about it that way either.
And I'd have to say that even like early on in my early recovery, I didn't have a wholelot of self worth and self love going on.
And so it was like kind of that dry drunk kind of thing going on.
But then I started really working on myself and self love started really showing up.
(51:03):
And I was like, oh, I see what it's kind of about now.
Like what recovery is really about.
So um real quick, I
know that you do have something that you have to get going for, but do you have any wordsfor our audience today that you wanna leave them with?
Something that is just, I don't know, off the top of your head, deep in the heart,anything like that?
(51:31):
No matter how dark the hole you feel you're in, getting out of it is not nearly as hard asyou think.
It's one step at a time.
And it starts with making time for you.
(51:52):
And if you, there are so many free products and services out there, if you're not capableof paying for some service, but you are worth it.
The fact that you are here means you're worth it.
So, and it's really not that.
Yeah.
(52:14):
Thank you for that.
um And I also have to ask, do you think that we could see you on the show again in thefuture?
Because I don't know if we've really dug all the way down as far as we can go with this.
I thrive and everything else.
And I'd love to just hear all about it.
I love to do that, absolutely.
And I'm also busy writing or rewriting the second edition of my book, Better or Better.
(52:39):
It's your choice and it's about uh creating a guide for a happy ever after living.
yeah, I would love to be back.
It be great.
Sweet.
Well, I'm looking forward to that a whole bunch and I really appreciate you being on theshow.
It's an honor and a pleasure.
(52:59):
And I just know that everyone's going to get something out of going to ithrive.zone andorhanacock.com.
and just figuring out what they need for themselves and being able to actually really justactually take steps towards get better in themselves.
It's awesome.
So thank you for this.
(53:19):
ah It's been a really enlightening conversation and I've loved it and I'm looking forwardto our next one.
Thank you very much Keegan for having me.
Thank you, see you next time.
Okay.
everyone out there.
Everyone out there.
Thank you for listening to Retrieving Sanity on WDJY 99.1 FM.
And as always, love yourself.
(53:41):
Love those next to you if you can.
But you got to love yourself first.
And we will see you next week.
So just stay cool.
Not clammy.
I was about to say clammy.
Don't stay clammy.
That's not a good sign.
So y'all just stay chilly out there.
cool and connected.
Ooh, cool and connected.
like that.
Thank you.
(54:02):
So everyone out there, see you next week.
Slánka fó!
And there we go.
Perfect.
Thank you.
That's a perfect...
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