May 23, 2024 • 34 mins
🕊️✨ 🌟 Dive into the depths of "Why Catholics Should Read the Bible?" in this enlightening episode of the Salve Maria podcast. Join Fr. Giuseppe Scollo and Br. Gustavo, in understanding the Bible from the Catholic Church Teachings. Fr. Giuseppe Scollo, an assistant professor of Biblical Theology at St. Augustine's Seminary in Toronto, explores the rich tapestry of Catholic Bible Study and the significant role of oral tradition in Christianity.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Father, we wanted to ask you, so many peoplehave this problem, right, about the Bible.
There is what is written, and we Catholics alsofollow the oral tradition. How much we can
rely on the oral tradition? Okay, I think oneof the problems is always to go back to the
roots. our faith which are Jewish. We forget,let's say we forget about roots and many traditions,
(00:25):
Christian traditions are cut with their pastand their descendants. And yet we are the people
not of the book but the people of the word ofGod. The other rabbi, Hillel, instead he goes
to him, this pagan says if you teach me, I willbecome a Jew if you just give me just the written
(00:46):
Torah, the written tradition. He says, okay,let's start from the alphabet. So that's fine,
learn it, when you, tomorrow, see you tomorrow.So the next day this person comes back and
says, okay, lecture number two. So today I teachyou the alphabet, but you told me yesterday,
today I teach you the alphabet. And he startsfrom the last letter of the alphabet, Z. and
(01:10):
W and goes backwards, no, in Hebrew. He said,but yes, sir, you told me that the alphabet
started with A, not with Z. He said, you see,you cannot really learn anything written unless
first of all, you trust the person that is teachingyou the authority. And second thing, you trust
(01:30):
the tradition that is giving you, that helpsyou. Jeremiah says the word of God is like
a hammer. breaking a rock and there's only likea flame, the sparks of a flame. Again, to say
that, yes, there are many meanings, but thenyou need someone that you trust, that's received
the Holy Spirit, as Christ says, that will teachyou everything. The more you convert, the more
(01:56):
the Bible speaks to you. Welcome to Salve Maria,the podcast of the Heralds of the Gospel.
So welcome back to Salve Maria, the podcastof The Heroes of the Gospel. Today is a very,
very special day because we have Fr. GiuseppeScholar with us. How are you, Father? Very
(02:19):
well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming.And this is really fantastic. Actually, the
first one that we invite to one of the podcasts.Thank you. You thought of me. I feel honored
to be here. I would like to introduce Fatherbecause of course you're going to see how valuable
his presence is because he's extremely busy.The fact that he comes and spends here sometimes
(02:43):
with us is really, really very, very nice. He'sassistant professor of biblical theology at
St. Augustine's Seminary in Toronto. He wasordained to the priesthood by the Archdiocese
of Toronto in 2007. He completed his doctoralstudies in biblical theology. And this is the
topic of today, by the way. So he joined theacademic and formation faculty of San Agustin's
(03:06):
in 2018 He has a licentiate in sacred theologyby the Pontifical biblical Institute in Rome
from 2013 And also of course as doctor of sacredtheology by the Pontifical Gregorian University
in Rome his areas of specialization a comprisedbiblical theology exegesis and hermeneutics
(03:29):
Hebrew Old Testament Greek New Testament scriptures,synoptic gospels, Aramaic literature, Targumic
hermeneutics, and Judeo-Christian roots. Sothis is wonderful for the topic we're going
to be dealing with today, because Father, itis always very, very interesting the question
of biblical theology, how the Bible is the book,right? In a sense, it's a book that, what is
(03:57):
translated in 2,000 languages. And of course,as you teach as well, it's a Bible means a
book and also a library of books. And yet weare reminded as Catholics that, well, the catechism
tells us that we are not a people of the book.So that for the general public and so on, is
(04:24):
a topic I think that needs to be addressed.And what a better opportunity than doing it
with you here in the studio. Yeah, that's veryinteresting what you're saying, because it's
true. In many languages like Italian, Spanish,I guess, Biblia, we say Bibbia, it sounds as
plural as, from Biblias the plural, of Biblosin Greek, which is a book. So yes, it's a library,
(04:45):
it's a collection of books. And yet we are thepeople, not of the book, but the people of
the word of God. You know, the Bible, I think,is full of people. that converted, you can
read the history of starting the Old Testament,Abraham, Moses, David, you name it, they converted,
(05:06):
they came to know God not because they reada book, because they met, they encountered
the presence of God in their lives, there isfirst an intervention of God in the life of
his people. And so a recording of this, notchronological, not but theological recording.
(05:27):
of this is what we have in the Bible. Basically,the first thing that happens is always God's
intervention in our life. He speaks to us inour history. That encounter has to, you don't
want to forget it, you want to write it down.It is an encounter, and sometimes we will be
very constrained if we were going to say, okay,this has to be what is written, and this is
(05:48):
according to this book that Pope, I think, Benedictused to say, Pope John Paul, I don't know if
you correct me, it's a book that we carry inour pocket. No, it's not. sense that yeah it's
not that you can carry the Word of God in yourpocket no we are the people of the living the
Word of God is living and active and letterto the Hebrews and it's true that you know
(06:12):
I'm thinking you cannot like there are otherreligions let's say Muslims for instance they
believe the Bible their
Not for us, for the Jewish and Christian people,Judeo-Christian for us. It's again, it's a
(06:34):
fruit of, the first thing is always God interveningin the life of his people. If today we had
Abraham here interview, Mr. Abraham, why doyou believe in God? Because I got this book,
I start reading it. No, because I met with God.Look, Abraham says, do you believe in God?
He would say, Isaac, come here, okay. You know,I was, I couldn't have children. This is God
(06:59):
exists, look. So, and so on, and we could saythat with most if not all of them, there's
always an encounter with the word of God whichis living and active. And then eventually,
bits and pieces like John says at the end ofhis gospel in the New Testament, not all the
signs that we, Christ worked, all the thingswere written, but these were selected, written
(07:22):
so that you may believe. Again. Same thing wecould say for the rest. There are experiences
that were first transmitted orally. Eventuallythe second step is always, first thing is always
God appears. You experience the mercy of God.Second thing, you wanna celebrate. The first
thing you wanna do is so happy. Let's have aparty, let's have a liturgy and you sing the
(07:45):
praises of God. Third thing, so the liturgyappears. The third thing is this oral transmission,
which maybe is the second really liturgies.there, liturgy and oral go together and then
you have the writing. Father, but the Apostlesdid not have anything written at that time,
correct? They did have, most of them were oraltradition, but they started having something.
(08:11):
They started having slowly. Yeah, and for surethe Old Testament, they had, although the canon
of the Old Testament came up later, like a fix,some Jews today say that it's not even closed
for them it is but no official closing as wehave it but there was already at the time of
Jesus we know a corpus of scriptures Jesus saysto the disciples of Emmaus that he explained
(08:36):
to them interpreted for them he opened theirminds to understand all that was said about
him in the writings the Torah in the Psalmsand in the Psalms So there was scripture available
at the time for sure, and it was usually proclaimedin Hebrew. But then there was always somebody
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saying a word in Aramaic, and that was whatJesus would have spoken was Aramaic. But above
all in the diaspora, diaspora outside of Jerusalem,people spoke Greek. That's why the New Testament,
as we have it, it came to us in Greek. Was therea make somehow comparable to English nowadays
(09:20):
like a lingua franca people say exactly likethe vernacular we say yeah But again, I'm saying
most of the people, because of them, the firstChristians were Jews. But then you have all
these, you know, the pagans converting. We seethat in the Acts of the Apostles. And then
again, they spoke, they didn't speak Latin.Latin was mostly used that they say for documents,
(09:44):
official documents in Rome, or they spoke Greek.So that's why the church, I mean, saying the
gospels, probably the first liturgies were alsoin Greek. This tendency to kind of, you know,
narrow everything to a book, right? Was thatthe problem of the Pharisees all of a sudden?
They wanted that answer that if it didn't fitthere... I don't know, many people who comment,
(10:09):
they say that what really our Lord Jesus Christdid know was mess them up. Because every time
He would say something, He would fulfill, butalso go beyond. And this is something that
the Pharisees... They didn't accept quite. Isthat correct? It's very interesting about the
Pharisees because if you look at the sources,not just the gospels, but their sources, the
(10:32):
rabbinic sources like the Talmud, the Mishnah,you see that even for them, they speak of seven
or eight kinds of Pharisees. It's not just onekind. And most of them, let's say 90%, 7 out
of 8 or 6 or 6 out of 8 is they're bad, they'rehypocrites. They themselves say what the Gospels
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say, you know, there is the Pharisee, thereis the mathematician kind of Pharisee that
says, okay, you know, I can sin a little bitand do something good so that I balance it,
or there is the one who is so with false humilityis always looking down not to see a woman or
something, then bangs against the wall or somebody.But then there is the Pharisee that does things
(11:18):
because of fear. They say like Job. The Phariseedoes things and follows God out of love. And
it's very interesting because Paul, he studiedwith Gamaliel and Paul, there is a passage
I think in the letter to the Romans where hesays, I am, you could translate literally,
(11:39):
I am a Pharisee for Christ. He says, I'm beingseparated because the word Pharisee means separated,
no? Parishim, it means to Parashis to separate,to consecrate. You could translate, I'm a Pharisee
now for Christ. But again, they know that tobe a Pharisee, the intention was good. It was
(12:00):
how do you become holy? You know, be holy asI'm holy. So some groups. religious groups,
they would say, let's separate physically thesins and they would go somewhere else, live
in a community, I don't know, Qumran. Some otherswould say, let us fulfill only the sola scriptura,
(12:23):
in a way like the Sadducees only believed thatit was only the Torah, the Pentateuch, no oral
tradition, Pharisees accepted all differentways of, at the end, of even the temple. You
could not, women could go up to certain place,men could go up to certain place. There was
this separation, because that's what God doesin creation, separate. So that's what holiness
(12:47):
is about. But when Christ came, He says, youknow, there is no more difference between man
and woman. And of course we don't mean that,as today some theories say. The confusion.
The confusion, no, not in the sense, but thereis no more slave or free. We are all one in
Christ. Christ has given us this sonship. makesjust one in him. I wanted to ask you, Nicodemus,
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he's so well known by being that disciple thatwas hidden, he was afraid, but you were also
mentioning there were so many kinds of Phariseesand so on, how do we fit him to be generous
and fair? Okay, very nice. Nicodemus goes toJesus by night, so at nighttime and... Yeah,
(13:33):
in a way, maybe he's afraid at that moment ofbeing really coming to the light. And it's
beautiful what Christ says, especially in theGospel of John. He uses a lot this, I don't
know exactly in French the pronunciation, butdouble and thunder, I think it's double meanings
the words have. And in the dialogue, the Christtalks about the light. Christ is confronting,
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you're coming to me, not saying that directly,but you come to me by night and talk to you
about the light, and I mean, so okay. And thenthere is the other thing, it says you have
to be born from above. You cannot be enteredthe kingdom of God, I don't remember exactly
the expression, but to be, you have to be bornfrom above. Or that same Greek word, expression,
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has two meanings. From above, it can mean fromabove, or it can mean again. And that's why
there's a misunderstanding. John plays withthose Greek words. It's not either or. Most
of the times both and. So how can I be bornagain? But really what Christ is talking about
is this mercy. In Hebrew, mercy is connectednot with the heart as in Latin and Latin languages,
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misericordia, cordis, the heart, but is connectedwith the womb. Rahamim connected with Rehem,
with being born again, coming. When we receivethe mercy of God, we really conceived, or if
you want, born again. There is this coming tolife, this life that the mother church gives
(15:07):
us, which is the mercy. Beautiful, anyway. Butonce I read, just to answer a couple questions,
sorry, but there is, I read something very interestingby Father Frederick Mans, who. passed away
a few years ago now. And he was a Franciscanin the Holy Land, an expert in Judeo-Christian
studies. What a work of the Franciscans in theHoly Land. You studied there in Jerusalem,
(15:31):
right? I did some studies there as well. Andone of the things, he wrote an article where
talking about Nicodemus. He sees it as a possibilitywhere Nicodemus is loving God, fulfilling the
Shema. loving God with all his heart, his mind,his strength, and he connects the three moments
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that Nicodemus appears in the Gospel of Johnwith being able to love God at the end when
he goes to actually ask for the body of Jesus.There's a journey of faith that Nicodemus went.
And at the end, he's able to spend, oh, he hadlots of money, I forget how many liters of...
anointing they bought. And really that's a journeyfor all of us, Nicodemus as well, the word
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of God for us. Father, let's go to a quick break.And then we come back with something that is
very important, I think, for everybody who listensto our podcast, which is, okay, how oral tradition
has to do. And somehow, you know, is it somethingthat we can rely on or just, you know, is something
being imprecise. So let's go, let's come backin a moment and then we take it. Stay with
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us because it's very, very interesting. SalveMaria. I'm Fr. Ryan Murphy of the Heralds of
the Gospel, and I'm delighted to extend an invitationto each and every one of you. In the midst
of our busy lives, it's crucial to take a momentof reflection, of soulless end of prayer. That's
why I would like to personally invite you tojoin us every day at 3pm for a special and
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powerful devotion. the Divine Mercy Chaplet.The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a beautiful prayer
that embodies the boundless compassion of ourLord. It's a time to come together as a community,
regardless of where we are, and lift up ourintentions, our hopes, and even our burdens
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to the heart of Jesus. Imagine all around theworld, countless voices, uniting in prayer
at this very hour. It's a moment of connection,of spiritual unity, and of seeking God's mercy
in a troubled world. So mark your calendars,set your alarms, and make a commitment to join
(17:48):
us each day at 3pm. Tune in and experience thetransformative power of the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
Let this be a sanctuary of peace amidst thenoise of life. Thank you for being a part of
our Herald's Canada YouTube channel. Together,let's embark on this journey of faith, hope,
(18:12):
and mercy. I'm looking forward to praying withyou every day at 3 p.m. May God's love and
mercy shine upon you always. And until we meetagain, may Almighty God bless you, the Father
and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. So welcomeback to this segment. And we are here with
Father Joseph Pescolo. He's... course a professorof biblical theology in the Archdiocese here
(18:38):
of Toronto in the seminary and father we wantedto ask you so many people have this problem
right about the Bible there is what is writtenand we Catholics also follow the oral tradition
and maybe you know people who are like you knowthe Germans in the 18th century right those
who are throwing stones at the Bible and saying
(19:04):
as an authority for the church, right? Yes.OK, I think one of the problems is always to
go back to the roots of our faith, which areJewish. So many scholars today, it's very subtle.
But I don't know if I can say really that it'skind of antisemitism in this sense. Because
really, we're not going to be able to do that.We forget, let's say we forget about roots.
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And many traditions, Christian traditions, arecut with their past in this sense, maybe unconsciously.
So yes, this idea that we're saying that it'snot just a Catholic idea, because the Jews
already have it. And the Pharisees and the Jews,they speak of the rabbis, they speak of the
Torah, belpeh, which means the Torah which ison the lips, which is the oral Torah, the oral
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law. the oral tradition and then the Torah,Shabbik Tav, that is the Torah that is written
on writing. And Moses received both. When hereceived the revelation of God, not receive
only the written, but also the oral tradition.There is a saying that they have, which is
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very interesting. And I think it's in the Talmud,I forget now which tract it, but. There is
a saying that there were two schools, two rabbis.One was more lenient, the other was tough.
Shammai and Hillel, you might have heard ofthese two schools. And Shammai is famous because
he was more strict, stricter in this sense.So there is this man, a pagan, that goes to
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Shammai, this rabbi that is tough, and goesto him and says, please teach me the... I will
convert to your religion, I'll become a Jewif you just give me... Forget about the oral
tradition, just the written tradition. basicallykicks him out of the school. He says, get out
of here. The other rabbi, he leh, instead, hegoes to him, this pagan, says, if you teach
(21:04):
me, I will become a Jew if you just give mejust the written Torah, the written tradition.
He says, okay. Okay, so today sit down, I'llteach you. Let's start from the alphabet. So
the alphabet is Aleph bet Gimali. It gives thealphabet A, B, C, you know? So that's fine.
Learn it when you, tomorrow, I'll see you tomorrow.So the next day, this person comes back and
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says, okay, lecture number two. So today I teachyou the alphabet. But you taught me yesterday.
Today I teach you the alphabet. And it startsfrom the last letter of the alphabet, Z and
W and goes backwards, no, in Hebrew. He said,but yes, sir, you told me that the alphabet
started with A, not with Z. So you see, youcannot really learn anything unless anything
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written, unless first of all, you trust theperson that is teaching you the authority.
And second thing you trust, the tradition thatis giving you, that helps you interpret what
is written. Because the alphabet, you can findit. written, whether you read it from the right
to the left makes a big difference, right? Whereis the right direction, right? So that's very
(22:16):
interesting, because for us, the Church doessay in the Catholic Church, we believe that
the oral tradition is very important to understandthe written tradition. There are things we
believe. They're not necessarily for our salvation,perhaps, but the names of the... parents, grandparents
of Jesus and Joachim down there, oral tradition.They're also recording some apocryphal writings,
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but I'm saying there are some things that weknow orally and not everything came to be written
down. We say John says not all the signs, manythings Jesus did. If we had to write everything
would be enough a library. Father, this actuallyperfectly lands us on the next topic because,
well, we also receive many comments here inthe channel of Protestants who say, no, we
(23:06):
don't need magisterium. Because they followthis doctrine of clarity, perspicuity for those
who study a little bit deeper. But basicallysaying, no, the gospel is made in such a way
that you don't need a teacher. It's so clear.The doctrine of clarity is so clear that you
don't need anybody. Anybody who reads it willunderstand. So if this is true, then you don't
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need anybody to teach you. And that's not thecase, right? All right, so do you know what
God gave us in the Catholic Church to JesusChrist, fulfilled in Christ? It's on three
legs. It's a tripod. You take one leg in a tripod,it falls. Boom. And these three legs are the
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written tradition, the oral tradition, and themagisterium, the authority. Now, we are very
allergic to this word authority. You know, welive in a, where nobody wants to obey, really?
And yet, what is faith without obedience? Theobedience of faith, the audire, you know, comes
from listening. Anyway, but I'm saying, so it'svery important. But when we speak of authority
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in the Catholic Church, it's always a service.So it's not that the teaching authority, the
Magisterium, the Church is above the Word ofGod or above, it's a servant. The Magisterium
never wrote a book and said, this is the wayyou must interpret this passage, there is no
other interpretation possible. No, the Churchsteps up and the authority says, you're going
(24:37):
too far, come back. And every time there isa council, you know, there are dogmas that
come out. It's because of that. It has to, youknow, to draw a line because really, I have
a question for you this time. I ask you a question.How many meanings does a passage or a sentence,
a word in the scripture have? There is somethingthat is called the doctrine of the multiplicity
(25:02):
of meanings. Already the Jews, they tell usthat the Torah is like wine. They say wine.
because it's nice wine. No, it's not just that.Because the numerical value of the word yain,
which is wine in Hebrew. So every letter ofthe alphabet in Hebrew has a value, a numerical
value. A equal one, B equal two, and so on andso forth. So when you write the word wine,
(25:28):
yain, it comes to 70. So the 70 we hear fromthe gospel, how many times should I forgive
my brother if he says 70 times? 70 means thefullness and 70 is the fullness of meanings
even the kind of church, fathers of the churchlike Saint Ephraim the Syrian. says that the
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word of God is like this river, and the sourceof water. You don't want to extinguish the
source. You can always have this treasure, speaksof a tree or branches, where you can collect
meanings. But then you say, okay, fix God's70 or fullness of meanings. Then is it just
pure relativism? No, it's not just pure relativism.You must have some criteria to help you interpret.
(26:13):
and be there. And again, they quote this, therabbis quote this, some, I say Jeremiah, it
says the word of God is like a hammer breakinga rock and there's only like a flame, the sparks
of a flame. Again, to say that yes, there aremany meanings, but then you need someone that
you trust, that's received the Holy Spirit,as Christ says, that will teach you everything,
(26:37):
to interpret as a service, not as a, say, There'ssome tyrant there that tells you that he's
always looking for you to do a mistake. Notin that sense. But interpretation, let's say,
you want to interpret the scriptures, right?Let's say, not anybody can just, or you can.
(26:58):
How does it go? Okay. I think there is alwaysa personal dimension because the Word of God
was not written to be studied. It was writtenfor you. Again, we are not the people of the
book. the Living Word of God, that means it'san instrument where you can meet with through
this book, you can meet with the Living Word.And so there is that personal dimension. But
(27:24):
it's true that you need to be able to speak,you need to be initiated. So it's not so much
study as more like catechesis, Christian initiation,faith, the fathers of the churches, the more
you convert, the more The Bible speaks to you.There's like, they go hand in hand. And it
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must be interpreted in a community. Becauseotherwise, this remains a book, where there
is a skeleton. Carmen Hernandez, the co-founderof the New Carthaginian Way, says the scripture
is like a skeleton. to remember that passagewhere there is this, it's a prophesy, it's
Ezekiel prophesy to the bones and we hear nowa pentecost is coming up. There's this, but
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where does the word of God, the skeleton takeon flesh? In the body, the church, the community.
And so yes, there are an interpretation. Wecan interpret it, enlightened, guided by the
Holy Spirit. And it's possible. That's why wecan pray. And the word of God is very existential.
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We have a mentality. We come from a Western,very legalistic mentality, where sin is just
an infringement of a law, breaking the law.It's not. No, like you don't see that sin makes
you suffer. It's more like missing the markactually to sin in Hebrew. That means to miss
the target. That's a bow and arrow. What's thetarget? It's love. The law, the Torah, is fulfilled
(28:56):
in this love commandment because love, that'swhat makes us happy. We wanna be happy. That's
our target. Everything we do, we do becausewe wanna be happy. When we sin, we just miss
the mark, the target. And so we suffer. We don'thave what happiness we're supposed to have.
we come from this Western mentality and manytimes we interpret things that way but there's
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more to it and the word of God is really there'sa psalm that says the word of God your word
is a lamp for my steps a light for my path thatmeans that God do how do I get discernment
how do I know what God wants from me Pray withscriptures, let the God speak to you through
(29:38):
his word and enlighten the steps that he wantsyou to take. Many in the audience also are
always asking, and you know, it's a kind ofmovement of soul. How can we pray the Holy
scripture? How can we pray the Bible? Do weadvise for it? There are many ways, many ways.
I can just share with you the way I have beentaught and the way I pray is to be able to
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use to take a reading and then by using theparallels or the references that some Bibles
have, like I have here with me, the JerusalemBible, and on this side is plenty of parallels.
You can navigate, you can interpret scripturewith the scriptures, which is what the early
(30:22):
fathers of the church used to do. It's a wayof praying, so that you ask questions to God.
Okay, you say here. Okay, don't leave Jerusalembecause I will be coming back, I'll meet you
in Galilee, I will precede you to Galilee. Youcan ask, Lord, where do you want me to meet
with you? What is Galilee for me? What is thisJerusalem you don't want to leave? Then you
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go to a parallel and maybe that parallel doesgive you an answer and the Lord can use a book
to speak and you can find. The word of God,which is living and active in the word of man,
that is the Bible, as Pope Benedict says. Sothat's a way of doing it, but there are other
ways. Lecture is called Lecture Divina, so differentways of praying with scriptures. It would be
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very beautiful that after this conversation,many of you in our audience would start doing
this and actually start receiving graces. Ithink the more one goes into the Bible. The
more one understands, slowly and kind of becomesa very passionate study. But it's very important
exactly what I was saying before that one needsto be initiated because the Bible, you need
(31:35):
to learn the language of the Bible, which isnot so much Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, yes,
but more than that, it's the language of faith.These people who wrote here, for these people
there's only one cause, the first cause. eventhe devil when he acts is acting with the permission
of God. There's not such a thing as a dualisticview. The devil would like us to think he's
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God but he's not. He's under here and he actswith the permission of God. So everything God
allows even what we call it many times I usedto call in the past a disgrace in Italian,
this graz. It's not such a thing. Everythingis love, everything is grace. Everything works
for the good those God has chosen. They loveGod. So How can you understand that unless
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you have faith? Faith is that language thatallows you to read the book because you won't
be able otherwise. Beautiful. Father, to wrapup the episode today, we'd like to give a blessing
to anybody who's listening to us, and so thatblessing that may also open their soul for
these beautiful truths that we have in the Bible.Okay, so the Lord be with you. And with your
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spirit. May the Lord grant all of you who arelistening and ourselves here present this desire
to deepen our faith, to go back to the rootsof our faith, also to have that desire to speak
the language of the Bible, to understand, tobe initiated that we may really come to this
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knowledge of Christ. St. Paul would say thatthey consider everything in you. Even the scripture,
even the Torah, everything he had learned asa rabbi, everything is garbage when compared
to coming to know Christ and the power of hislove, his resurrection, the forgiveness of
our sins so that the Lord may grant all of usthis desire as we approach also this feast
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of Pentecost to have this intimacy, knowledgeof Christ. experiential knowledge, not so much
an intellectual one. And the Lord be with you.And with your spirit. Almighty God bless you,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.Thank you. Go in peace.
Father, we wanted to ask you, so many peoplehave this problem, right, about the Bible.
There is what is written, and we Catholics alsofollow the oral tradition. How much we can
rely on the oral tradition? Okay, I think oneof the problems is always to go back to the
roots. our faith which are Jewish. We forget,let's say we forget about roots and many traditions,
(00:25):
Christian traditions are cut with their pastand their descendants. And yet we are the people
not of the book but the people of the word ofGod. The other rabbi, Hillel, instead he goes
to him, this pagan says if you teach me, I willbecome a Jew if you just give me just the written
(00:46):
Torah, the written tradition. He says, okay,let's start from the alphabet. So that's fine,
learn it, when you, tomorrow, see you tomorrow.So the next day this person comes back and
says, okay, lecture number two. So today I teachyou the alphabet, but you told me yesterday,
today I teach you the alphabet. And he startsfrom the last letter of the alphabet, Z. and
(01:10):
W and goes backwards, no, in Hebrew. He said,but yes, sir, you told me that the alphabet
started with A, not with Z. He said, you see,you cannot really learn anything written unless
first of all, you trust the person that is teachingyou the authority. And second thing, you trust
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the tradition that is giving you, that helpsyou. Jeremiah says the word of God is like
a hammer. breaking a rock and there's only likea flame, the sparks of a flame. Again, to say
that, yes, there are many meanings, but thenyou need someone that you trust, that's received
the Holy Spirit, as Christ says, that will teachyou everything. The more you convert, the more
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the Bible speaks to you. Welcome to Salve Maria,the podcast of the Heralds of the Gospel.
So welcome back to Salve Maria, the podcastof The Heroes of the Gospel. Today is a very,
very special day because we have Fr. GiuseppeScholar with us. How are you, Father? Very
(02:19):
well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming.And this is really fantastic. Actually, the
first one that we invite to one of the podcasts.Thank you. You thought of me. I feel honored
to be here. I would like to introduce Fatherbecause of course you're going to see how valuable
his presence is because he's extremely busy.The fact that he comes and spends here sometimes
(02:43):
with us is really, really very, very nice. He'sassistant professor of biblical theology at
St. Augustine's Seminary in Toronto. He wasordained to the priesthood by the Archdiocese
of Toronto in 2007. He completed his doctoralstudies in biblical theology. And this is the
topic of today, by the way. So he joined theacademic and formation faculty of San Agustin's
(03:06):
in 2018 He has a licentiate in sacred theologyby the Pontifical biblical Institute in Rome
from 2013 And also of course as doctor of sacredtheology by the Pontifical Gregorian University
in Rome his areas of specialization a comprisedbiblical theology exegesis and hermeneutics
(03:29):
Hebrew Old Testament Greek New Testament scriptures,synoptic gospels, Aramaic literature, Targumic
hermeneutics, and Judeo-Christian roots. Sothis is wonderful for the topic we're going
to be dealing with today, because Father, itis always very, very interesting the question
of biblical theology, how the Bible is the book,right? In a sense, it's a book that, what is
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translated in 2,000 languages. And of course,as you teach as well, it's a Bible means a
book and also a library of books. And yet weare reminded as Catholics that, well, the catechism
tells us that we are not a people of the book.So that for the general public and so on, is
(04:24):
a topic I think that needs to be addressed.And what a better opportunity than doing it
with you here in the studio. Yeah, that's veryinteresting what you're saying, because it's
true. In many languages like Italian, Spanish,I guess, Biblia, we say Bibbia, it sounds as
plural as, from Biblias the plural, of Biblosin Greek, which is a book. So yes, it's a library,
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it's a collection of books. And yet we are thepeople, not of the book, but the people of
the word of God. You know, the Bible, I think,is full of people. that converted, you can
read the history of starting the Old Testament,Abraham, Moses, David, you name it, they converted,
(05:06):
they came to know God not because they reada book, because they met, they encountered
the presence of God in their lives, there isfirst an intervention of God in the life of
his people. And so a recording of this, notchronological, not but theological recording.
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of this is what we have in the Bible. Basically,the first thing that happens is always God's
intervention in our life. He speaks to us inour history. That encounter has to, you don't
want to forget it, you want to write it down.It is an encounter, and sometimes we will be
very constrained if we were going to say, okay,this has to be what is written, and this is
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according to this book that Pope, I think, Benedictused to say, Pope John Paul, I don't know if
you correct me, it's a book that we carry inour pocket. No, it's not. sense that yeah it's
not that you can carry the Word of God in yourpocket no we are the people of the living the
Word of God is living and active and letterto the Hebrews and it's true that you know
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I'm thinking you cannot like there are otherreligions let's say Muslims for instance they
believe the Bible their
Not for us, for the Jewish and Christian people,Judeo-Christian for us. It's again, it's a
(06:34):
fruit of, the first thing is always God interveningin the life of his people. If today we had
Abraham here interview, Mr. Abraham, why doyou believe in God? Because I got this book,
I start reading it. No, because I met with God.Look, Abraham says, do you believe in God?
He would say, Isaac, come here, okay. You know,I was, I couldn't have children. This is God
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exists, look. So, and so on, and we could saythat with most if not all of them, there's
always an encounter with the word of God whichis living and active. And then eventually,
bits and pieces like John says at the end ofhis gospel in the New Testament, not all the
signs that we, Christ worked, all the thingswere written, but these were selected, written
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so that you may believe. Again. Same thing wecould say for the rest. There are experiences
that were first transmitted orally. Eventuallythe second step is always, first thing is always
God appears. You experience the mercy of God.Second thing, you wanna celebrate. The first
thing you wanna do is so happy. Let's have aparty, let's have a liturgy and you sing the
(07:45):
praises of God. Third thing, so the liturgyappears. The third thing is this oral transmission,
which maybe is the second really liturgies.there, liturgy and oral go together and then
you have the writing. Father, but the Apostlesdid not have anything written at that time,
correct? They did have, most of them were oraltradition, but they started having something.
(08:11):
They started having slowly. Yeah, and for surethe Old Testament, they had, although the canon
of the Old Testament came up later, like a fix,some Jews today say that it's not even closed
for them it is but no official closing as wehave it but there was already at the time of
Jesus we know a corpus of scriptures Jesus saysto the disciples of Emmaus that he explained
(08:36):
to them interpreted for them he opened theirminds to understand all that was said about
him in the writings the Torah in the Psalmsand in the Psalms So there was scripture available
at the time for sure, and it was usually proclaimedin Hebrew. But then there was always somebody
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saying a word in Aramaic, and that was whatJesus would have spoken was Aramaic. But above
all in the diaspora, diaspora outside of Jerusalem,people spoke Greek. That's why the New Testament,
as we have it, it came to us in Greek. Was therea make somehow comparable to English nowadays
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like a lingua franca people say exactly likethe vernacular we say yeah But again, I'm saying
most of the people, because of them, the firstChristians were Jews. But then you have all
these, you know, the pagans converting. We seethat in the Acts of the Apostles. And then
again, they spoke, they didn't speak Latin.Latin was mostly used that they say for documents,
(09:44):
official documents in Rome, or they spoke Greek.So that's why the church, I mean, saying the
gospels, probably the first liturgies were alsoin Greek. This tendency to kind of, you know,
narrow everything to a book, right? Was thatthe problem of the Pharisees all of a sudden?
They wanted that answer that if it didn't fitthere... I don't know, many people who comment,
(10:09):
they say that what really our Lord Jesus Christdid know was mess them up. Because every time
He would say something, He would fulfill, butalso go beyond. And this is something that
the Pharisees... They didn't accept quite. Isthat correct? It's very interesting about the
Pharisees because if you look at the sources,not just the gospels, but their sources, the
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rabbinic sources like the Talmud, the Mishnah,you see that even for them, they speak of seven
or eight kinds of Pharisees. It's not just onekind. And most of them, let's say 90%, 7 out
of 8 or 6 or 6 out of 8 is they're bad, they'rehypocrites. They themselves say what the Gospels
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say, you know, there is the Pharisee, thereis the mathematician kind of Pharisee that
says, okay, you know, I can sin a little bitand do something good so that I balance it,
or there is the one who is so with false humilityis always looking down not to see a woman or
something, then bangs against the wall or somebody.But then there is the Pharisee that does things
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because of fear. They say like Job. The Phariseedoes things and follows God out of love. And
it's very interesting because Paul, he studiedwith Gamaliel and Paul, there is a passage
I think in the letter to the Romans where hesays, I am, you could translate literally,
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I am a Pharisee for Christ. He says, I'm beingseparated because the word Pharisee means separated,
no? Parishim, it means to Parashis to separate,to consecrate. You could translate, I'm a Pharisee
now for Christ. But again, they know that tobe a Pharisee, the intention was good. It was
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how do you become holy? You know, be holy asI'm holy. So some groups. religious groups,
they would say, let's separate physically thesins and they would go somewhere else, live
in a community, I don't know, Qumran. Some otherswould say, let us fulfill only the sola scriptura,
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in a way like the Sadducees only believed thatit was only the Torah, the Pentateuch, no oral
tradition, Pharisees accepted all differentways of, at the end, of even the temple. You
could not, women could go up to certain place,men could go up to certain place. There was
this separation, because that's what God doesin creation, separate. So that's what holiness
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is about. But when Christ came, He says, youknow, there is no more difference between man
and woman. And of course we don't mean that,as today some theories say. The confusion.
The confusion, no, not in the sense, but thereis no more slave or free. We are all one in
Christ. Christ has given us this sonship. makesjust one in him. I wanted to ask you, Nicodemus,
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he's so well known by being that disciple thatwas hidden, he was afraid, but you were also
mentioning there were so many kinds of Phariseesand so on, how do we fit him to be generous
and fair? Okay, very nice. Nicodemus goes toJesus by night, so at nighttime and... Yeah,
(13:33):
in a way, maybe he's afraid at that moment ofbeing really coming to the light. And it's
beautiful what Christ says, especially in theGospel of John. He uses a lot this, I don't
know exactly in French the pronunciation, butdouble and thunder, I think it's double meanings
the words have. And in the dialogue, the Christtalks about the light. Christ is confronting,
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you're coming to me, not saying that directly,but you come to me by night and talk to you
about the light, and I mean, so okay. And thenthere is the other thing, it says you have
to be born from above. You cannot be enteredthe kingdom of God, I don't remember exactly
the expression, but to be, you have to be bornfrom above. Or that same Greek word, expression,
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has two meanings. From above, it can mean fromabove, or it can mean again. And that's why
there's a misunderstanding. John plays withthose Greek words. It's not either or. Most
of the times both and. So how can I be bornagain? But really what Christ is talking about
is this mercy. In Hebrew, mercy is connectednot with the heart as in Latin and Latin languages,
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misericordia, cordis, the heart, but is connectedwith the womb. Rahamim connected with Rehem,
with being born again, coming. When we receivethe mercy of God, we really conceived, or if
you want, born again. There is this coming tolife, this life that the mother church gives
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us, which is the mercy. Beautiful, anyway. Butonce I read, just to answer a couple questions,
sorry, but there is, I read something very interestingby Father Frederick Mans, who. passed away
a few years ago now. And he was a Franciscanin the Holy Land, an expert in Judeo-Christian
studies. What a work of the Franciscans in theHoly Land. You studied there in Jerusalem,
(15:31):
right? I did some studies there as well. Andone of the things, he wrote an article where
talking about Nicodemus. He sees it as a possibilitywhere Nicodemus is loving God, fulfilling the
Shema. loving God with all his heart, his mind,his strength, and he connects the three moments
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that Nicodemus appears in the Gospel of Johnwith being able to love God at the end when
he goes to actually ask for the body of Jesus.There's a journey of faith that Nicodemus went.
And at the end, he's able to spend, oh, he hadlots of money, I forget how many liters of...
anointing they bought. And really that's a journeyfor all of us, Nicodemus as well, the word
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of God for us. Father, let's go to a quick break.And then we come back with something that is
very important, I think, for everybody who listensto our podcast, which is, okay, how oral tradition
has to do. And somehow, you know, is it somethingthat we can rely on or just, you know, is something
being imprecise. So let's go, let's come backin a moment and then we take it. Stay with
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us because it's very, very interesting. SalveMaria. I'm Fr. Ryan Murphy of the Heralds of
the Gospel, and I'm delighted to extend an invitationto each and every one of you. In the midst
of our busy lives, it's crucial to take a momentof reflection, of soulless end of prayer. That's
why I would like to personally invite you tojoin us every day at 3pm for a special and
(17:04):
powerful devotion. the Divine Mercy Chaplet.The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a beautiful prayer
that embodies the boundless compassion of ourLord. It's a time to come together as a community,
regardless of where we are, and lift up ourintentions, our hopes, and even our burdens
(17:26):
to the heart of Jesus. Imagine all around theworld, countless voices, uniting in prayer
at this very hour. It's a moment of connection,of spiritual unity, and of seeking God's mercy
in a troubled world. So mark your calendars,set your alarms, and make a commitment to join
(17:48):
us each day at 3pm. Tune in and experience thetransformative power of the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
Let this be a sanctuary of peace amidst thenoise of life. Thank you for being a part of
our Herald's Canada YouTube channel. Together,let's embark on this journey of faith, hope,
(18:12):
and mercy. I'm looking forward to praying withyou every day at 3 p.m. May God's love and
mercy shine upon you always. And until we meetagain, may Almighty God bless you, the Father
and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. So welcomeback to this segment. And we are here with
Father Joseph Pescolo. He's... course a professorof biblical theology in the Archdiocese here
(18:38):
of Toronto in the seminary and father we wantedto ask you so many people have this problem
right about the Bible there is what is writtenand we Catholics also follow the oral tradition
and maybe you know people who are like you knowthe Germans in the 18th century right those
who are throwing stones at the Bible and saying
(19:04):
as an authority for the church, right? Yes.OK, I think one of the problems is always to
go back to the roots of our faith, which areJewish. So many scholars today, it's very subtle.
But I don't know if I can say really that it'skind of antisemitism in this sense. Because
really, we're not going to be able to do that.We forget, let's say we forget about roots.
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And many traditions, Christian traditions, arecut with their past in this sense, maybe unconsciously.
So yes, this idea that we're saying that it'snot just a Catholic idea, because the Jews
already have it. And the Pharisees and the Jews,they speak of the rabbis, they speak of the
Torah, belpeh, which means the Torah which ison the lips, which is the oral Torah, the oral
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law. the oral tradition and then the Torah,Shabbik Tav, that is the Torah that is written
on writing. And Moses received both. When hereceived the revelation of God, not receive
only the written, but also the oral tradition.There is a saying that they have, which is
(20:12):
very interesting. And I think it's in the Talmud,I forget now which tract it, but. There is
a saying that there were two schools, two rabbis.One was more lenient, the other was tough.
Shammai and Hillel, you might have heard ofthese two schools. And Shammai is famous because
he was more strict, stricter in this sense.So there is this man, a pagan, that goes to
(20:37):
Shammai, this rabbi that is tough, and goesto him and says, please teach me the... I will
convert to your religion, I'll become a Jewif you just give me... Forget about the oral
tradition, just the written tradition. basicallykicks him out of the school. He says, get out
of here. The other rabbi, he leh, instead, hegoes to him, this pagan, says, if you teach
(21:04):
me, I will become a Jew if you just give mejust the written Torah, the written tradition.
He says, okay. Okay, so today sit down, I'llteach you. Let's start from the alphabet. So
the alphabet is Aleph bet Gimali. It gives thealphabet A, B, C, you know? So that's fine.
Learn it when you, tomorrow, I'll see you tomorrow.So the next day, this person comes back and
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says, okay, lecture number two. So today I teachyou the alphabet. But you taught me yesterday.
Today I teach you the alphabet. And it startsfrom the last letter of the alphabet, Z and
W and goes backwards, no, in Hebrew. He said,but yes, sir, you told me that the alphabet
started with A, not with Z. So you see, youcannot really learn anything unless anything
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written, unless first of all, you trust theperson that is teaching you the authority.
And second thing you trust, the tradition thatis giving you, that helps you interpret what
is written. Because the alphabet, you can findit. written, whether you read it from the right
to the left makes a big difference, right? Whereis the right direction, right? So that's very
(22:16):
interesting, because for us, the Church doessay in the Catholic Church, we believe that
the oral tradition is very important to understandthe written tradition. There are things we
believe. They're not necessarily for our salvation,perhaps, but the names of the... parents, grandparents
of Jesus and Joachim down there, oral tradition.They're also recording some apocryphal writings,
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but I'm saying there are some things that weknow orally and not everything came to be written
down. We say John says not all the signs, manythings Jesus did. If we had to write everything
would be enough a library. Father, this actuallyperfectly lands us on the next topic because,
well, we also receive many comments here inthe channel of Protestants who say, no, we
(23:06):
don't need magisterium. Because they followthis doctrine of clarity, perspicuity for those
who study a little bit deeper. But basicallysaying, no, the gospel is made in such a way
that you don't need a teacher. It's so clear.The doctrine of clarity is so clear that you
don't need anybody. Anybody who reads it willunderstand. So if this is true, then you don't
(23:28):
need anybody to teach you. And that's not thecase, right? All right, so do you know what
God gave us in the Catholic Church to JesusChrist, fulfilled in Christ? It's on three
legs. It's a tripod. You take one leg in a tripod,it falls. Boom. And these three legs are the
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written tradition, the oral tradition, and themagisterium, the authority. Now, we are very
allergic to this word authority. You know, welive in a, where nobody wants to obey, really?
And yet, what is faith without obedience? Theobedience of faith, the audire, you know, comes
from listening. Anyway, but I'm saying, so it'svery important. But when we speak of authority
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in the Catholic Church, it's always a service.So it's not that the teaching authority, the
Magisterium, the Church is above the Word ofGod or above, it's a servant. The Magisterium
never wrote a book and said, this is the wayyou must interpret this passage, there is no
other interpretation possible. No, the Churchsteps up and the authority says, you're going
(24:37):
too far, come back. And every time there isa council, you know, there are dogmas that
come out. It's because of that. It has to, youknow, to draw a line because really, I have
a question for you this time. I ask you a question.How many meanings does a passage or a sentence,
a word in the scripture have? There is somethingthat is called the doctrine of the multiplicity
(25:02):
of meanings. Already the Jews, they tell usthat the Torah is like wine. They say wine.
because it's nice wine. No, it's not just that.Because the numerical value of the word yain,
which is wine in Hebrew. So every letter ofthe alphabet in Hebrew has a value, a numerical
value. A equal one, B equal two, and so on andso forth. So when you write the word wine,
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yain, it comes to 70. So the 70 we hear fromthe gospel, how many times should I forgive
my brother if he says 70 times? 70 means thefullness and 70 is the fullness of meanings
even the kind of church, fathers of the churchlike Saint Ephraim the Syrian. says that the
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word of God is like this river, and the sourceof water. You don't want to extinguish the
source. You can always have this treasure, speaksof a tree or branches, where you can collect
meanings. But then you say, okay, fix God's70 or fullness of meanings. Then is it just
pure relativism? No, it's not just pure relativism.You must have some criteria to help you interpret.
(26:13):
and be there. And again, they quote this, therabbis quote this, some, I say Jeremiah, it
says the word of God is like a hammer breakinga rock and there's only like a flame, the sparks
of a flame. Again, to say that yes, there aremany meanings, but then you need someone that
you trust, that's received the Holy Spirit,as Christ says, that will teach you everything,
(26:37):
to interpret as a service, not as a, say, There'ssome tyrant there that tells you that he's
always looking for you to do a mistake. Notin that sense. But interpretation, let's say,
you want to interpret the scriptures, right?Let's say, not anybody can just, or you can.
(26:58):
How does it go? Okay. I think there is alwaysa personal dimension because the Word of God
was not written to be studied. It was writtenfor you. Again, we are not the people of the
book. the Living Word of God, that means it'san instrument where you can meet with through
this book, you can meet with the Living Word.And so there is that personal dimension. But
(27:24):
it's true that you need to be able to speak,you need to be initiated. So it's not so much
study as more like catechesis, Christian initiation,faith, the fathers of the churches, the more
you convert, the more The Bible speaks to you.There's like, they go hand in hand. And it
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must be interpreted in a community. Becauseotherwise, this remains a book, where there
is a skeleton. Carmen Hernandez, the co-founderof the New Carthaginian Way, says the scripture
is like a skeleton. to remember that passagewhere there is this, it's a prophesy, it's
Ezekiel prophesy to the bones and we hear nowa pentecost is coming up. There's this, but
(28:12):
where does the word of God, the skeleton takeon flesh? In the body, the church, the community.
And so yes, there are an interpretation. Wecan interpret it, enlightened, guided by the
Holy Spirit. And it's possible. That's why wecan pray. And the word of God is very existential.
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We have a mentality. We come from a Western,very legalistic mentality, where sin is just
an infringement of a law, breaking the law.It's not. No, like you don't see that sin makes
you suffer. It's more like missing the markactually to sin in Hebrew. That means to miss
the target. That's a bow and arrow. What's thetarget? It's love. The law, the Torah, is fulfilled
(28:56):
in this love commandment because love, that'swhat makes us happy. We wanna be happy. That's
our target. Everything we do, we do becausewe wanna be happy. When we sin, we just miss
the mark, the target. And so we suffer. We don'thave what happiness we're supposed to have.
we come from this Western mentality and manytimes we interpret things that way but there's
(29:17):
more to it and the word of God is really there'sa psalm that says the word of God your word
is a lamp for my steps a light for my path thatmeans that God do how do I get discernment
how do I know what God wants from me Pray withscriptures, let the God speak to you through
(29:38):
his word and enlighten the steps that he wantsyou to take. Many in the audience also are
always asking, and you know, it's a kind ofmovement of soul. How can we pray the Holy
scripture? How can we pray the Bible? Do weadvise for it? There are many ways, many ways.
I can just share with you the way I have beentaught and the way I pray is to be able to
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use to take a reading and then by using theparallels or the references that some Bibles
have, like I have here with me, the JerusalemBible, and on this side is plenty of parallels.
You can navigate, you can interpret scripturewith the scriptures, which is what the early
(30:22):
fathers of the church used to do. It's a wayof praying, so that you ask questions to God.
Okay, you say here. Okay, don't leave Jerusalembecause I will be coming back, I'll meet you
in Galilee, I will precede you to Galilee. Youcan ask, Lord, where do you want me to meet
with you? What is Galilee for me? What is thisJerusalem you don't want to leave? Then you
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go to a parallel and maybe that parallel doesgive you an answer and the Lord can use a book
to speak and you can find. The word of God,which is living and active in the word of man,
that is the Bible, as Pope Benedict says. Sothat's a way of doing it, but there are other
ways. Lecture is called Lecture Divina, so differentways of praying with scriptures. It would be
(31:12):
very beautiful that after this conversation,many of you in our audience would start doing
this and actually start receiving graces. Ithink the more one goes into the Bible. The
more one understands, slowly and kind of becomesa very passionate study. But it's very important
exactly what I was saying before that one needsto be initiated because the Bible, you need
(31:35):
to learn the language of the Bible, which isnot so much Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, yes,
but more than that, it's the language of faith.These people who wrote here, for these people
there's only one cause, the first cause. eventhe devil when he acts is acting with the permission
of God. There's not such a thing as a dualisticview. The devil would like us to think he's
(31:59):
God but he's not. He's under here and he actswith the permission of God. So everything God
allows even what we call it many times I usedto call in the past a disgrace in Italian,
this graz. It's not such a thing. Everythingis love, everything is grace. Everything works
for the good those God has chosen. They loveGod. So How can you understand that unless
(32:21):
you have faith? Faith is that language thatallows you to read the book because you won't
be able otherwise. Beautiful. Father, to wrapup the episode today, we'd like to give a blessing
to anybody who's listening to us, and so thatblessing that may also open their soul for
these beautiful truths that we have in the Bible.Okay, so the Lord be with you. And with your
(32:44):
spirit. May the Lord grant all of you who arelistening and ourselves here present this desire
to deepen our faith, to go back to the rootsof our faith, also to have that desire to speak
the language of the Bible, to understand, tobe initiated that we may really come to this
(33:07):
knowledge of Christ. St. Paul would say thatthey consider everything in you. Even the scripture,
even the Torah, everything he had learned asa rabbi, everything is garbage when compared
to coming to know Christ and the power of hislove, his resurrection, the forgiveness of
our sins so that the Lord may grant all of usthis desire as we approach also this feast
(33:32):
of Pentecost to have this intimacy, knowledgeof Christ. experiential knowledge, not so much
an intellectual one. And the Lord be with you.And with your spirit. Almighty God bless you,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.Thank you. Go in peace.
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