July 4, 2024 • 32 mins
🕊️✨Welcome to "Salve Maria," the podcast of the Heralds of the Gospel! In this thought-provoking episode, we explore the significant differences between Catholic and Protestant beliefs using the fathers of the Church among other sources. Join us as we delve into the foundations of Christian Theology, focusing on five key areas: Church Authority, Sacraments, Role of Mary, Saints Intercession, and the concept of Salvation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Sometimes Catholics are confused. And many peoplesay, well, what is the difference between Protestants
and Catholics? And there are differences, andthere are really very serious differences.
So today we're going to talk about, okay, whatthe Catholic Church teaches about authority,
about the sacraments, about the role of ourlady and the saints. Who tend to be of that
(00:20):
certain tradition, go into the doctors and theearly fathers of the church, and they discover
how very Catholic. the early fathers and doctorsof the church were. But if not, why did Jesus
say, on the cross before dying, this is yourmother? Why did he say this if she's not necessary?
(00:42):
But also why didn't he appoint apostles? He'sGod, he could have just done it himself. Hope
that this division one day will disappear. Yes.And that all those who want to follow Jesus
Christ, they're going to be united again. andto follow Him in the way He wants to be followed.
(01:21):
Salve Maria, welcome to the podcast of the Heroesof the Gospel. Salve Maria, Fr. Arthur. Salve
Maria. Salve Maria, Fr. Justin. Salve Maria.As we were talking from the beginning, today
is a very good opportunity to figure out andto find out and to help our Catholics to realize
why we are Catholic and what is the differencebetween the Catholic Church and the Protestant
(01:42):
denominations. And so we have, of course, hereFr. Arthur that is going to help us, and Fr.
Justin as well to... to clarify points and alsoto make this conversation, right? Of course.
That is very important. And also we thank allthose who are watching us, especially in YouTube.
The audience is growing by several thousandsevery 10 days. We're very happy to see that.
(02:06):
So we also greet everyone who listens to usalso in Radio Maria, the Catholic voice in
your home. Also all those who watch the podcastchannels and all the friends that are following
us. and make sense questions and everythingelse. If you have any questions or something
to say, please go to the comments. And alsoto start with, go and click like, because that
(02:27):
helps a lot in the discoverability of the program.Very good. So today we had several parts, Father,
that we're going to ask you for your help, butalso again, this is a very important point
because sometimes Catholics are confused. Andmany people say, well, what is the difference
between Protestants and Catholics? And thereare differences and there are really very serious
(02:51):
differences. So today we're going to talk about,okay, what the Catholic church teaches about
authority, about the sacraments, about the roleof our lady and the saints. And also about
the, what is tradition and in the end, whatis salvation. So topics that are. Of course.
I think the most important request that theLord Jesus Christ did in his life. especially
(03:18):
in his public life, can be summarized by thephrase, follow me. Our Lord said this to all
those who He wanted to call especially, butHe means that for everybody. He wants everybody
to follow Him. So there should be one churchbecause there is one shepherd. So it is very
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sad that in the 16th century, the there wasa decadence actually of the Christians in general.
And unfortunately, some people took advantageof this to kind of create a great confusion.
And with the pretext that they wanted to makethings better, they did the worst. Maybe it
(04:06):
was not their intention, but actually this iswhat happened. And the church divided into
many, many pieces. And as you know, the whatwe call the Protestants or the Reformation,
etc. There are literally thousands of groups.It means that they don't even can get together
and reach a conclusion on themselves. Why? BecauseJesus built the church on top of himself. And
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the church is one. The church is a unity. Thechurch is one person. Protestants tend to say
that the church is a book. But if you say thatthe church is a book, then it means that you
can interpret the book as you want. It meansthat you're doing your own church. Because
the book... Well, that's actually what theydo. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you're not even
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making a case of a possibility. It's exactlywhat they do. Jesus didn't say follow the Bible.
He didn't say this. Jesus didn't own a printingpress in which he gave off books and handed
people out, just find me, find me in the book.Exactly. And also the statistics are tremendous.
Say if I'm not mistaken, the church is onlyone and the Protestant denominations are over
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4,000. So when we talk about unity, if we weregoing to say the Protestant field and the church,
the Protestant church and the church, but no,it's 4,000 on one side and on and one still,
one piece. Well, I mean, you look at the creed,the creed. So we go back to the earliest creeds,
(05:41):
the Apostles' Creed, Nicene Creed. And one ofthe elements that's really important is the
four marks of the church, one, holy, Catholic,and apostolic. Now, I really, really like to
challenge the Protestants. The Protestants,I mean the ones who actually split from the
Catholic Church. The evangelicals, that's awhole other set because they're just... each
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one for their own. They just devolve. But howcan they, because some of them do pray the
Nicene Creed. How can they say with a straightface, I believe in one, holy, Catholic and
apostolic, even if you translate it back toits, uh, cognate roots, one, are you telling
me that there's one? You are, you are Lutheran.You are Anglican. You, one. Are you trying
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to tell me, oh, that's one church? You're reallystretching to the limits of possibility. Catholic,
catholic, universal. Really? Are you going withthat? Okay, fine. It really is a stretch of
imagination. So you take the Anglican church,for example, they are extremely divided among
themselves and basically they're kind of disappearing.Because when you are not following one, person,
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which is the Lord Jesus Christ and his church.And you say that you follow a book, you're
not going anywhere. You're, you're followingyourself. Can I ask a simple question? Who
actually put the book out? Yeah, exactly. Causeyou're saying it's all about a book. I'm asking
who put the book out and when was the book published?When was the book set? That's two problems.
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And now that we got the attention, because this,this program is watched by many, many people.
Now that we got the attention of, and the furyperhaps, of our separated brothers, no? We
have to warn everyone that we are not goingto go into a verse by verse kind of comparison
and argument. But today we were going to, andI would propose this way, if there is a reasoning,
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no, that says A is equal to B, and B is equalto C, therefore A and C are equal. So far so
good. That's right. So, yeah, so what happensif we have the what the Catholic Church teaches
and we can prove it the Catholic Church teacheswhat the Fathers of the Church taught in the
early times and the Fathers of the Church inthe early times taught what Jesus taught from
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the very beginning when he came to earth thenwe can say that what the Catholic Church teaches
and what Jesus teaches is the same. So, at thepoint of union here and it's a challenge again
to our Protestant friends or maybe not thatright, but anyway, we're always open to listen,
is to show how the Fathers of a Church are actuallythe bonding point between what our Lord taught,
(08:40):
what the Catholic Church says, and then alsowe're going to expose here as well what the
Protestants believe in five points. So it startswith the authority in the Church. Exactly.
Father, the Church, the Catholic Church believesthat the Pope is the authority. Of course,
because the Pope is the... continuation of St.Peter. St. Peter's the continuation of whom?
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Of Jesus. So when Jesus says, follow me, he'ssaying follow St. Peter and follow the Pope
and follow the church, follow one family. Anddon't break away. I think that was also quite
interesting if you want to look at natural talents.In the early church, which apostle was the
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most dynamic, most gifted? I think without question,it's Paul. He's responsible for a large segment,
large percentage of the New Testament writings.Many churches. Peter, much less, he went to
Rome and got killed. Okay. His disciple goesto Alexandria. So, but that said, when Peter
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and Paul have a major dissension and Paul feelsthat Peter has gone wrong. What does he do?
He doesn't go there and up-rate him. He inventedhis own church. Does that's what he should
have done? No, of course. Because he says toPeter, you're wrong. If he was a prophet, then
he would do that, you know? Start my own church.Right, start my own church, you're wrong. The
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Holy Spirit spoke to me. I felt the burningin my bosom and I'm discerning it. I'm on my
own authority, I'm going to do it. No, whatdid he do? Twice. At the beginning, when he
left Damascus, he went to Cephas or Peter, hewent and consulted, he compared their testimonies
to make sure his testimony was correct. Okay,so who holds the keys here? Peter. And then
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the second one is when they had those crisesof the Jewishizers, he again goes to Jaffa
to speak to Peter and opposes him. Peter changeshis position, but Peter is still Peter. Of
course, exactly. So the position that they're,oh, maybe there's a bad pope or what have you,
fine. Well, but here we have the- That's stillPeter. Here we have the Protestants that 15
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centuries later, they discovered that no, St.Peter is not the right one. So they reject
the authority of the pope. They believe thatno human leader has supreme authority over
the church and emphasize the priesthood of thebelievers. So everyone is a pope in the end.
Of course, exactly. And so let's go to whatthe fathers of the church have to say. Okay.
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I'm going to steal one that is very, very nice.And if you permit me, I'm going to leave the
others for, of course, for our dear part ofthe program here. But it says, Saint Irenaeus
of Lyon, he wrote against the Heresies. Andhe comes from when? He comes from the year
130. He was a disciple of Saint Polycarp. Yeah.who was a disciple of St. John. So there we
(11:52):
go. And then he says, okay, we shall confound,he says, all those who assemble other than
where it is proper by pointing out here, thesuccession of the bishops of the greatest and
most ancient church known to all, founded andorganized at Rome by the two most glorious
apostles, Peter and Paul. For it is a matterof necessity that every church should agree
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with this church on account of its preeminentauthority. So this comes from the very beginning
from the cradle of the church when the churchwas fighting all these heresies and so on.
And then if the church believes what Santiriniusbelieves, Santirinius just transmits to us
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what our Lord Jesus Christ had to say. Whata beautiful continuity. Another one that's
fascinating about that point is that Rome wasco-founded between Peter and Paul, but Paul
had already founded many other churches thatwere far more successful. Yeah. So why didn't
he just say, well, Paul who founded seven othergreat churches, we all know about them, this
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is one of them. It's good, they're all equal.No, Rome had preeminence. So there has to be
one shepherd. because the shepherd is the LordJesus Christ. But he is not a shepherd that
he is a shepherd on his own. He is the onlyone who commands and then below him there's
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nobody, everybody's nothing. No, he wants toelevate everybody. And he wants to make that
everybody will be also a shepherd united withhim. So, you know, this union. that all this
reformation brought to the church was a disaster.Until today the church is suffering because
(13:47):
of this break apart and destruction of the unityof the church. I read somewhere, I forgot,
but Luther... wanted reform. And he went thewrong way. There were others who also saw issues
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with the church and wanted reform. One of themwas St. Charles Baromeo, a great reformer of
the church, but he stayed with Rome. He stayedwith Peter, even though Peter necessarily wasn't
the best, but he stayed. And with that, we acclaimhis memory of Charles Baromeo and Luther. so
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much. Of course. Let's go to a quick break andthen we come back with four more positions
in which that we can figure out what reallyCatholics believe and what is the difference
between Catholics and Protestants and if somedaymaybe it can come together again. Watch for
a moment and then we'll be back in two seconds.Salve Maria, I'm Father Ryan Murphy of the
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Heralds of the Gospel. And I'm delighted toextend an invitation to each and every one
of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection of soulless
end of prayer. That's why I would like to personallyinvite you to join us every day at 3 PM for
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a special and powerful devotion. The DivineMercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is
a beautiful prayer that embodies the boundlesscompassion of our Lord. It's a time to come
together as a community, regardless of wherewe are, and lift up our intentions, our hopes,
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and even our burdens to the heart of Jesus.Imagine all around the world countless voices
uniting in prayer at this very hour. It's amoment of connection, of spiritual unity, and
of seeking God's mercy in a troubled So markyour calendars, set your alarms, and make a
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commitment to join us each day at 3pm. Tunein and experience the transformative power
of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a sanctuaryof peace amidst the noise of life. Thank you
for being a part of our Heralds Canada YouTubechannel. Together, let's embark on this journey
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of faith, hope, and mercy. I'm looking forwardto praying with you every day at 3 p.m. May
God's love and mercy shine upon you always.And until we meet again, may Almighty God bless
you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.Amen. So here we are back on this program about
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the differences between the Catholic Churchand the Protestant denominations. And today
we have the second one, which is what is the
and tradition. So I'm going to read brieflyhere to help the audience to get squared into
the topic and says, the Catholic Church teachesthat both Scripture and sacred tradition are
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essentials to the faith, but tradition includesteachings handed out through the ages, starting
with the apostles. So we follow that. And theProtestants adhere in general to the principle
of sola scriptura, which means that the scripturealone is the ultimate authority. the only authority
in matters of faith and practice. So they tendto reject the binding authority of traditions
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and also anything that is not explicitly supportedby the Bible is denied. And so we promise that
we are going to bring the fathers of the church.Father, please. To start with, you know, the
Bible has never been written, first of all,not by one person. It's a lot of people who
wrote parts of the Bible. And it was never writtento be a manifest of what we think. It wasn't
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a manual. No, it wasn't a manual. It wasn't,you know, a catechism. No, it was the story
of salvation. And from this story, you haveto take the principles that are behind salvation,
on which salvation is founded. So you have historicalbooks, you have Sapiensoil books, you have
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prophetic books, et cetera. You have the bookof Revelation, which is extremely difficult
to understand. Of course, it's an inspired book,it's a Holy Spirit speaking, but that's not
all. To think that that's the whole Word ofGod, I mean, you're limiting God to almost
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a very small portion of his what he is. St.John tells us at the end of his gospel that
there are no books on this earth that couldcontain everything that our Lord said and taught
during his life. He might be exaggerating, butthat's important because this was the writer
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of probably the most informative. all the Gospels.If you consider that the Word of God is infinite,
He's not exaggerating, because how can you putan infinite Word of God into limited books?
But it's as though what it is, it's a do-it-yourself.It's like the Home Depot of religion, in which
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we do not want a master crafter to help us.We do it ourselves. I got an instruction book
and we're good. I got the Bible in my hand andI'm able to do everything. The problem is that
the early church wasn't like that. No. And thephilosophy which is behind this attitude, that
was very dangerous because actually the churchand our relation with God is a relation of
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obedience, of fidelity, of union with Him. Wefollow Him. Whatever He says, we know that
is wonderful. We want to follow Him. If we wantto follow a book, we're not following anybody.
We're just following what we think we interpretedfrom a book. We are following ourselves. Is
God, my question is, is God alive? Or is Godcontained in a book? Exactly. Because the early
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church was a church of the word. It was a churchthat spoke, that it spread, that evangelized.
They didn't have a Bible. They had some scrollshere and there of Isaiah or something, but
the New Testament, which is so important, itwasn't even written yet. That's when, like
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we, now, now that we, we've gone through theEaster season and we've gone through all of
that, we have these accounts in like acts of,you know, 5,000, 3,000 people converting. Were
they given books? No. Was each one interpretingthings as they desired? No. They followed what
the apostle, they said, Tell us what we mustdo. Exactly. Then ask for a book. And they
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were not following those books because theywere not even written, but still they were
saved. But why? Because they listened to theword that the apostles spoke. Exactly. So.
So let's go to one of the fathers of the church,St. Basil the Great. And he says this, it's
very interesting, of the dogmas and messagespreserved in the church, some we possess from
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written teachings, and others. we have receivedfrom the tradition of the apostles handed on
to us in mystery in respect to piety, both havethe same force. So there we go, right? I mean,
tradition and the traditions that are writtenand the traditions that are just passed through
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the spoken word, those are very, very important.The writings of the early church. I would say
a large percentage, if not most, are transcribedfrom sermons. So, I mean, St. Cyril of Jerusalem,
he would speak for hours and people would transcribethem. And they came down to us as tradition.
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So if we believe differently than the fathersof the church, we are actually, and there's
only one father of the church. Here, out ofbrevity, we're not reading, but there are three,
four, five. more and all of them agree on thissame point. So this is a common problem whenever
people who tend to be of that certain tradition,go into the doctors and the early fathers of
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the church and they, and they discover how,how very Catholic the early fathers and doctors
of the church were, um, how they were very Catholic.And unfortunately, the ones who, uh, lined
up better with, um, their positions tended tobe heretics. Ebonites, Masonians, et cetera.
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So Aryans, et cetera. So is that your side?So you're a part of them. Okay, then we understand.
We have a good understanding. Maybe you're thecontinuation of that, no? Who knows? Be careful.
Let's move a little bit to the sacraments. That'sin foot number three. And the sacraments, okay,
what the Catholic Church teaches, this CatholicChurch recognizes seven sacraments. Of course.
And the Protestant field only recognizes two.Baptism. If you're lucky. If you're lucky.
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Baptism and the Eucharist. But there is a pointmaybe I would like to bring and if you could
enrich with explanation, not because Catholicsbelieve in the transubstantiation. Bread and
wine, seas being bread and wine, and they arefully- Substantial. Body, soul, divinity of
our Lord Jesus Christ. And the Protestants believein the consubstantiation. It's still bread,
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it's still wine, and also Jesus is there. He'smixed in. special ingredient. Well, he's there
during the celebration, but at the end of hegoes away. But then somehow she goes as far
as saying that he's in the hearts of those whoare symbolically receiving. I don't know what's
going on here, but anyway, yes. Yeah, so therewe go, right? And that is a fundamental. That's
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a free interpretation of the Eucharist. A veryfree. So we went from seven sacraments to two.
Or to one. Or to one or to none. Or to none.Depending on the person, the name. And then
it gets worse because since it's all by feelings,and I don't depend on anybody. And we're all
priests. And then these people, what happensis that they descend because they lose things
like the Trinity. Yes. Because the Trinity isn'tspoken, like, you should believe in the Trinity.
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It's there, but you need a little bit of subtext.And so these people end up, I have what they
call one Jesus Pentecostals and many others.in which they don't baptize in a Trinitarian
formula, they baptize in the name of Jesus.And I'm not sure if you're being Christian
at that point, but there's a large segment thatare going this way. They're drifting in that
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direction because they say it's not, it's soloscripted, it's not explicitly said what is,
but they don't see it like that. Next pointabout salvation. The Catholic Church teaches
that salvation is actually a process involvingfaith and involving good works. And the sacraments
are fundamental to give us the strength of thegrace to practice, to grow in our faith and
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grow in the actions that are the consequenceof our faith and that prove our faith. But
they like to say that what we Catholics believeis that we work our salvation, that we do good
actions so that we have brownie points so wecan trade them in for chips in heaven. It's
the most bizarre thing. Well, here we go. TheProtestant position put into... at least globalizing
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a little bit, is that salvation is by faithalone. So we have sola scriptura and also sola
fide, right? Only by faith alone. St. Jamesdenies that position. Good works are seen as
a result of faith, not as a mean of achievingsalvation, therefore works do not count. Once
saved, always saved. So it means that no matterhow you behave, if you say that you believe
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you're saved, so therefore, Your sanctificationis zero. It doesn't count at all. It's a ethereal
form of faith. I believe in Jesus Christ. No,that's it. But what does it mean? I'm saved.
In factual sense, what does it really mean?Means I can do whatever I want as long as I
believe in Jesus and I'm a Christian. No. Isaid I'm a Christian. That's all that matters.
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And we have several fathers of the church. AndAgostin, I think, is lapidary on this one.
He says, he who created you without you willnot justify you without you. Perfect. That's
it, I think we, I don't know if we need anythingelse. So we need to put our part for our sanctification.
God sanctifies us and we return to him sayingyes, and we put into our soul what he preaches
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to us and what we believe. We offer with thework of our hands, something as a grateful
child back to God. But knowing that gift orreturning that was given to us doesn't really
have a lot of value in itself. It's a gift oflove. We recommend a book, a very interesting
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one, called The Drama of Salvation. That isvery, very amazing. We'll put it here in the
notes because it's really, really very interesting.And again, we have only half an hour to deal
with all of this. But let's go to the last one,which is The Rule of Mary and the Saints. The
Catholic Church teaches we venerate our lady,we do not adore our lady. We venerate Mary
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and the saints. And we believe in the intercessionof saints, meaning that saints can pray to
God on behalf of the living. While the Protestantssay they do not venerate our lady, and they
believe that Jesus is the sole mediator betweenGod and mankind. It states that Jesus is the
sole mediator. Of course. It doesn't contradictthat. No. But if not. Why did Jesus say, on
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the cross before dying, this is your mother?Why did he say this if she's not necessary?
But also, why did he appoint apostles? He'sGod, he could have just done it himself. Didn't
need a bunch of hopeless humans, do it himself.But the same people who have all these objections
are more than willing to come to your houseand pray on you. I'm not exactly sure what
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that is. they'll lay their hands on you andstart doing all kinds of stuff. What is that?
That's intercession! You're interceding! So,you don't like Our Lady, let's just put it,
you don't like her, you don't like the saintsto be like yourself. Yeah. Okay. But from the
very, very beginning, the church has devotionto Our Lady, and look what St. Cyril of Alexandria
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has to say, he says, Our Lady, God-bearer, isa venerable treasure in the whole world. And
look at this, He says, our lady is an unquenchablelamp, a crown of virginity, a scepter of orthodoxy,
an indestructible temple. He says, he's thecontainer of the uncontainable, his mother
and virgin. More, through our lady, the trinityis glorified, the holy cross is celebrated,
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and adored everywhere on earth. Through ourlady, the heavens exult with joy, the angels
and archangels are glad. the demons are putto flight and the tempter fell from heaven.
Oh my goodness. But this is again what the churchbelieved. This was a homily said during the
ecumenical council of Ephesus. So. So be carefulbecause the devil doesn't like Mary also. Oh
(30:01):
no. So be careful. It's a thermometer movie.Watch out. Oops.
So this is the position of intercession andthis is the big differences, right, that we
have between the Catholic Church. Of course,this is just to inspire the audience to go
and look for more, more things, right? The Fathersof the Church are so many, but the Council
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of Trent, which also infuriates the Protestantsa lot, they said that whenever you find three
or more Fathers of the Church that have consensuson one point, they say that is Catholic doctrine.
So everything we have read here, we have threeor more fathers of the church to verify the
position of the Catholic. So we hope that thisdivision one day will disappear. Yes. And that
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all those who want to follow Jesus Christ, they'regoing to be united again and to follow him
in the way he wants to be followed. Of course,with his mother, with his father Joseph, with
the apostles, with all the saints, And the wholemystical body will be one body and not divided.
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Beautiful. And how much we would profit, ifyou imagine the knowledge of the scripture
that in some protestant fields, the interestand the good sense of starting that, it would
come also to the Catholic Church. That wouldbe it. Absolutely. There are some who really
write things very interesting and their booksare very enlightening on one aspect, of course,
(31:34):
of the word of God, et cetera. but extremelyinteresting. Father, can you give us a blessing?
Maybe asking our lady to somehow bring us alltogether in a good position. Exactly, the Lord
be with you. And with your spirit. And may AlmightyGod bless you, the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit. Amen. Go in peace. Salve Maria.Salve Maria.
Sometimes Catholics are confused. And many peoplesay, well, what is the difference between Protestants
and Catholics? And there are differences, andthere are really very serious differences.
So today we're going to talk about, okay, whatthe Catholic Church teaches about authority,
about the sacraments, about the role of ourlady and the saints. Who tend to be of that
(00:20):
certain tradition, go into the doctors and theearly fathers of the church, and they discover
how very Catholic. the early fathers and doctorsof the church were. But if not, why did Jesus
say, on the cross before dying, this is yourmother? Why did he say this if she's not necessary?
(00:42):
But also why didn't he appoint apostles? He'sGod, he could have just done it himself. Hope
that this division one day will disappear. Yes.And that all those who want to follow Jesus
Christ, they're going to be united again. andto follow Him in the way He wants to be followed.
(01:21):
Salve Maria, welcome to the podcast of the Heroesof the Gospel. Salve Maria, Fr. Arthur. Salve
Maria. Salve Maria, Fr. Justin. Salve Maria.As we were talking from the beginning, today
is a very good opportunity to figure out andto find out and to help our Catholics to realize
why we are Catholic and what is the differencebetween the Catholic Church and the Protestant
(01:42):
denominations. And so we have, of course, hereFr. Arthur that is going to help us, and Fr.
Justin as well to... to clarify points and alsoto make this conversation, right? Of course.
That is very important. And also we thank allthose who are watching us, especially in YouTube.
The audience is growing by several thousandsevery 10 days. We're very happy to see that.
(02:06):
So we also greet everyone who listens to usalso in Radio Maria, the Catholic voice in
your home. Also all those who watch the podcastchannels and all the friends that are following
us. and make sense questions and everythingelse. If you have any questions or something
to say, please go to the comments. And alsoto start with, go and click like, because that
(02:27):
helps a lot in the discoverability of the program.Very good. So today we had several parts, Father,
that we're going to ask you for your help, butalso again, this is a very important point
because sometimes Catholics are confused. Andmany people say, well, what is the difference
between Protestants and Catholics? And thereare differences and there are really very serious
(02:51):
differences. So today we're going to talk about,okay, what the Catholic church teaches about
authority, about the sacraments, about the roleof our lady and the saints. And also about
the, what is tradition and in the end, whatis salvation. So topics that are. Of course.
I think the most important request that theLord Jesus Christ did in his life. especially
(03:18):
in his public life, can be summarized by thephrase, follow me. Our Lord said this to all
those who He wanted to call especially, butHe means that for everybody. He wants everybody
to follow Him. So there should be one churchbecause there is one shepherd. So it is very
(03:41):
sad that in the 16th century, the there wasa decadence actually of the Christians in general.
And unfortunately, some people took advantageof this to kind of create a great confusion.
And with the pretext that they wanted to makethings better, they did the worst. Maybe it
(04:06):
was not their intention, but actually this iswhat happened. And the church divided into
many, many pieces. And as you know, the whatwe call the Protestants or the Reformation,
etc. There are literally thousands of groups.It means that they don't even can get together
and reach a conclusion on themselves. Why? BecauseJesus built the church on top of himself. And
(04:33):
the church is one. The church is a unity. Thechurch is one person. Protestants tend to say
that the church is a book. But if you say thatthe church is a book, then it means that you
can interpret the book as you want. It meansthat you're doing your own church. Because
the book... Well, that's actually what theydo. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, you're not even
(04:56):
making a case of a possibility. It's exactlywhat they do. Jesus didn't say follow the Bible.
He didn't say this. Jesus didn't own a printingpress in which he gave off books and handed
people out, just find me, find me in the book.Exactly. And also the statistics are tremendous.
Say if I'm not mistaken, the church is onlyone and the Protestant denominations are over
(05:21):
4,000. So when we talk about unity, if we weregoing to say the Protestant field and the church,
the Protestant church and the church, but no,it's 4,000 on one side and on and one still,
one piece. Well, I mean, you look at the creed,the creed. So we go back to the earliest creeds,
(05:41):
the Apostles' Creed, Nicene Creed. And one ofthe elements that's really important is the
four marks of the church, one, holy, Catholic,and apostolic. Now, I really, really like to
challenge the Protestants. The Protestants,I mean the ones who actually split from the
Catholic Church. The evangelicals, that's awhole other set because they're just... each
(06:04):
one for their own. They just devolve. But howcan they, because some of them do pray the
Nicene Creed. How can they say with a straightface, I believe in one, holy, Catholic and
apostolic, even if you translate it back toits, uh, cognate roots, one, are you telling
me that there's one? You are, you are Lutheran.You are Anglican. You, one. Are you trying
(06:33):
to tell me, oh, that's one church? You're reallystretching to the limits of possibility. Catholic,
catholic, universal. Really? Are you going withthat? Okay, fine. It really is a stretch of
imagination. So you take the Anglican church,for example, they are extremely divided among
themselves and basically they're kind of disappearing.Because when you are not following one, person,
(07:02):
which is the Lord Jesus Christ and his church.And you say that you follow a book, you're
not going anywhere. You're, you're followingyourself. Can I ask a simple question? Who
actually put the book out? Yeah, exactly. Causeyou're saying it's all about a book. I'm asking
who put the book out and when was the book published?When was the book set? That's two problems.
(07:26):
And now that we got the attention, because this,this program is watched by many, many people.
Now that we got the attention of, and the furyperhaps, of our separated brothers, no? We
have to warn everyone that we are not goingto go into a verse by verse kind of comparison
and argument. But today we were going to, andI would propose this way, if there is a reasoning,
(07:52):
no, that says A is equal to B, and B is equalto C, therefore A and C are equal. So far so
good. That's right. So, yeah, so what happensif we have the what the Catholic Church teaches
and we can prove it the Catholic Church teacheswhat the Fathers of the Church taught in the
early times and the Fathers of the Church inthe early times taught what Jesus taught from
(08:15):
the very beginning when he came to earth thenwe can say that what the Catholic Church teaches
and what Jesus teaches is the same. So, at thepoint of union here and it's a challenge again
to our Protestant friends or maybe not thatright, but anyway, we're always open to listen,
is to show how the Fathers of a Church are actuallythe bonding point between what our Lord taught,
(08:40):
what the Catholic Church says, and then alsowe're going to expose here as well what the
Protestants believe in five points. So it startswith the authority in the Church. Exactly.
Father, the Church, the Catholic Church believesthat the Pope is the authority. Of course,
because the Pope is the... continuation of St.Peter. St. Peter's the continuation of whom?
(09:04):
Of Jesus. So when Jesus says, follow me, he'ssaying follow St. Peter and follow the Pope
and follow the church, follow one family. Anddon't break away. I think that was also quite
interesting if you want to look at natural talents.In the early church, which apostle was the
(09:24):
most dynamic, most gifted? I think without question,it's Paul. He's responsible for a large segment,
large percentage of the New Testament writings.Many churches. Peter, much less, he went to
Rome and got killed. Okay. His disciple goesto Alexandria. So, but that said, when Peter
(09:53):
and Paul have a major dissension and Paul feelsthat Peter has gone wrong. What does he do?
He doesn't go there and up-rate him. He inventedhis own church. Does that's what he should
have done? No, of course. Because he says toPeter, you're wrong. If he was a prophet, then
he would do that, you know? Start my own church.Right, start my own church, you're wrong. The
(10:15):
Holy Spirit spoke to me. I felt the burningin my bosom and I'm discerning it. I'm on my
own authority, I'm going to do it. No, whatdid he do? Twice. At the beginning, when he
left Damascus, he went to Cephas or Peter, hewent and consulted, he compared their testimonies
to make sure his testimony was correct. Okay,so who holds the keys here? Peter. And then
(10:41):
the second one is when they had those crisesof the Jewishizers, he again goes to Jaffa
to speak to Peter and opposes him. Peter changeshis position, but Peter is still Peter. Of
course, exactly. So the position that they're,oh, maybe there's a bad pope or what have you,
fine. Well, but here we have the- That's stillPeter. Here we have the Protestants that 15
(11:04):
centuries later, they discovered that no, St.Peter is not the right one. So they reject
the authority of the pope. They believe thatno human leader has supreme authority over
the church and emphasize the priesthood of thebelievers. So everyone is a pope in the end.
Of course, exactly. And so let's go to whatthe fathers of the church have to say. Okay.
(11:25):
I'm going to steal one that is very, very nice.And if you permit me, I'm going to leave the
others for, of course, for our dear part ofthe program here. But it says, Saint Irenaeus
of Lyon, he wrote against the Heresies. Andhe comes from when? He comes from the year
130. He was a disciple of Saint Polycarp. Yeah.who was a disciple of St. John. So there we
(11:52):
go. And then he says, okay, we shall confound,he says, all those who assemble other than
where it is proper by pointing out here, thesuccession of the bishops of the greatest and
most ancient church known to all, founded andorganized at Rome by the two most glorious
apostles, Peter and Paul. For it is a matterof necessity that every church should agree
(12:18):
with this church on account of its preeminentauthority. So this comes from the very beginning
from the cradle of the church when the churchwas fighting all these heresies and so on.
And then if the church believes what Santiriniusbelieves, Santirinius just transmits to us
(12:39):
what our Lord Jesus Christ had to say. Whata beautiful continuity. Another one that's
fascinating about that point is that Rome wasco-founded between Peter and Paul, but Paul
had already founded many other churches thatwere far more successful. Yeah. So why didn't
he just say, well, Paul who founded seven othergreat churches, we all know about them, this
(13:04):
is one of them. It's good, they're all equal.No, Rome had preeminence. So there has to be
one shepherd. because the shepherd is the LordJesus Christ. But he is not a shepherd that
he is a shepherd on his own. He is the onlyone who commands and then below him there's
(13:25):
nobody, everybody's nothing. No, he wants toelevate everybody. And he wants to make that
everybody will be also a shepherd united withhim. So, you know, this union. that all this
reformation brought to the church was a disaster.Until today the church is suffering because
(13:47):
of this break apart and destruction of the unityof the church. I read somewhere, I forgot,
but Luther... wanted reform. And he went thewrong way. There were others who also saw issues
(14:08):
with the church and wanted reform. One of themwas St. Charles Baromeo, a great reformer of
the church, but he stayed with Rome. He stayedwith Peter, even though Peter necessarily wasn't
the best, but he stayed. And with that, we acclaimhis memory of Charles Baromeo and Luther. so
(14:29):
much. Of course. Let's go to a quick break andthen we come back with four more positions
in which that we can figure out what reallyCatholics believe and what is the difference
between Catholics and Protestants and if somedaymaybe it can come together again. Watch for
a moment and then we'll be back in two seconds.Salve Maria, I'm Father Ryan Murphy of the
(14:52):
Heralds of the Gospel. And I'm delighted toextend an invitation to each and every one
of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection of soulless
end of prayer. That's why I would like to personallyinvite you to join us every day at 3 PM for
(15:14):
a special and powerful devotion. The DivineMercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is
a beautiful prayer that embodies the boundlesscompassion of our Lord. It's a time to come
together as a community, regardless of wherewe are, and lift up our intentions, our hopes,
(15:35):
and even our burdens to the heart of Jesus.Imagine all around the world countless voices
uniting in prayer at this very hour. It's amoment of connection, of spiritual unity, and
of seeking God's mercy in a troubled So markyour calendars, set your alarms, and make a
(15:58):
commitment to join us each day at 3pm. Tunein and experience the transformative power
of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a sanctuaryof peace amidst the noise of life. Thank you
for being a part of our Heralds Canada YouTubechannel. Together, let's embark on this journey
(16:21):
of faith, hope, and mercy. I'm looking forwardto praying with you every day at 3 p.m. May
God's love and mercy shine upon you always.And until we meet again, may Almighty God bless
you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.Amen. So here we are back on this program about
(16:42):
the differences between the Catholic Churchand the Protestant denominations. And today
we have the second one, which is what is the
and tradition. So I'm going to read brieflyhere to help the audience to get squared into
the topic and says, the Catholic Church teachesthat both Scripture and sacred tradition are
(17:04):
essentials to the faith, but tradition includesteachings handed out through the ages, starting
with the apostles. So we follow that. And theProtestants adhere in general to the principle
of sola scriptura, which means that the scripturealone is the ultimate authority. the only authority
in matters of faith and practice. So they tendto reject the binding authority of traditions
(17:29):
and also anything that is not explicitly supportedby the Bible is denied. And so we promise that
we are going to bring the fathers of the church.Father, please. To start with, you know, the
Bible has never been written, first of all,not by one person. It's a lot of people who
wrote parts of the Bible. And it was never writtento be a manifest of what we think. It wasn't
(17:55):
a manual. No, it wasn't a manual. It wasn't,you know, a catechism. No, it was the story
of salvation. And from this story, you haveto take the principles that are behind salvation,
on which salvation is founded. So you have historicalbooks, you have Sapiensoil books, you have
(18:21):
prophetic books, et cetera. You have the bookof Revelation, which is extremely difficult
to understand. Of course, it's an inspired book,it's a Holy Spirit speaking, but that's not
all. To think that that's the whole Word ofGod, I mean, you're limiting God to almost
(18:43):
a very small portion of his what he is. St.John tells us at the end of his gospel that
there are no books on this earth that couldcontain everything that our Lord said and taught
during his life. He might be exaggerating, butthat's important because this was the writer
(19:09):
of probably the most informative. all the Gospels.If you consider that the Word of God is infinite,
He's not exaggerating, because how can you putan infinite Word of God into limited books?
But it's as though what it is, it's a do-it-yourself.It's like the Home Depot of religion, in which
(19:29):
we do not want a master crafter to help us.We do it ourselves. I got an instruction book
and we're good. I got the Bible in my hand andI'm able to do everything. The problem is that
the early church wasn't like that. No. And thephilosophy which is behind this attitude, that
was very dangerous because actually the churchand our relation with God is a relation of
(19:56):
obedience, of fidelity, of union with Him. Wefollow Him. Whatever He says, we know that
is wonderful. We want to follow Him. If we wantto follow a book, we're not following anybody.
We're just following what we think we interpretedfrom a book. We are following ourselves. Is
God, my question is, is God alive? Or is Godcontained in a book? Exactly. Because the early
(20:24):
church was a church of the word. It was a churchthat spoke, that it spread, that evangelized.
They didn't have a Bible. They had some scrollshere and there of Isaiah or something, but
the New Testament, which is so important, itwasn't even written yet. That's when, like
(20:46):
we, now, now that we, we've gone through theEaster season and we've gone through all of
that, we have these accounts in like acts of,you know, 5,000, 3,000 people converting. Were
they given books? No. Was each one interpretingthings as they desired? No. They followed what
the apostle, they said, Tell us what we mustdo. Exactly. Then ask for a book. And they
(21:11):
were not following those books because theywere not even written, but still they were
saved. But why? Because they listened to theword that the apostles spoke. Exactly. So.
So let's go to one of the fathers of the church,St. Basil the Great. And he says this, it's
very interesting, of the dogmas and messagespreserved in the church, some we possess from
(21:31):
written teachings, and others. we have receivedfrom the tradition of the apostles handed on
to us in mystery in respect to piety, both havethe same force. So there we go, right? I mean,
tradition and the traditions that are writtenand the traditions that are just passed through
(21:56):
the spoken word, those are very, very important.The writings of the early church. I would say
a large percentage, if not most, are transcribedfrom sermons. So, I mean, St. Cyril of Jerusalem,
he would speak for hours and people would transcribethem. And they came down to us as tradition.
(22:21):
So if we believe differently than the fathersof the church, we are actually, and there's
only one father of the church. Here, out ofbrevity, we're not reading, but there are three,
four, five. more and all of them agree on thissame point. So this is a common problem whenever
people who tend to be of that certain tradition,go into the doctors and the early fathers of
(22:44):
the church and they, and they discover how,how very Catholic the early fathers and doctors
of the church were, um, how they were very Catholic.And unfortunately, the ones who, uh, lined
up better with, um, their positions tended tobe heretics. Ebonites, Masonians, et cetera.
(23:05):
So Aryans, et cetera. So is that your side?So you're a part of them. Okay, then we understand.
We have a good understanding. Maybe you're thecontinuation of that, no? Who knows? Be careful.
Let's move a little bit to the sacraments. That'sin foot number three. And the sacraments, okay,
what the Catholic Church teaches, this CatholicChurch recognizes seven sacraments. Of course.
And the Protestant field only recognizes two.Baptism. If you're lucky. If you're lucky.
(23:29):
Baptism and the Eucharist. But there is a pointmaybe I would like to bring and if you could
enrich with explanation, not because Catholicsbelieve in the transubstantiation. Bread and
wine, seas being bread and wine, and they arefully- Substantial. Body, soul, divinity of
our Lord Jesus Christ. And the Protestants believein the consubstantiation. It's still bread,
(23:53):
it's still wine, and also Jesus is there. He'smixed in. special ingredient. Well, he's there
during the celebration, but at the end of hegoes away. But then somehow she goes as far
as saying that he's in the hearts of those whoare symbolically receiving. I don't know what's
going on here, but anyway, yes. Yeah, so therewe go, right? And that is a fundamental. That's
(24:17):
a free interpretation of the Eucharist. A veryfree. So we went from seven sacraments to two.
Or to one. Or to one or to none. Or to none.Depending on the person, the name. And then
it gets worse because since it's all by feelings,and I don't depend on anybody. And we're all
priests. And then these people, what happensis that they descend because they lose things
like the Trinity. Yes. Because the Trinity isn'tspoken, like, you should believe in the Trinity.
(24:43):
It's there, but you need a little bit of subtext.And so these people end up, I have what they
call one Jesus Pentecostals and many others.in which they don't baptize in a Trinitarian
formula, they baptize in the name of Jesus.And I'm not sure if you're being Christian
at that point, but there's a large segment thatare going this way. They're drifting in that
(25:07):
direction because they say it's not, it's soloscripted, it's not explicitly said what is,
but they don't see it like that. Next pointabout salvation. The Catholic Church teaches
that salvation is actually a process involvingfaith and involving good works. And the sacraments
are fundamental to give us the strength of thegrace to practice, to grow in our faith and
(25:31):
grow in the actions that are the consequenceof our faith and that prove our faith. But
they like to say that what we Catholics believeis that we work our salvation, that we do good
actions so that we have brownie points so wecan trade them in for chips in heaven. It's
the most bizarre thing. Well, here we go. TheProtestant position put into... at least globalizing
(25:54):
a little bit, is that salvation is by faithalone. So we have sola scriptura and also sola
fide, right? Only by faith alone. St. Jamesdenies that position. Good works are seen as
a result of faith, not as a mean of achievingsalvation, therefore works do not count. Once
saved, always saved. So it means that no matterhow you behave, if you say that you believe
(26:20):
you're saved, so therefore, Your sanctificationis zero. It doesn't count at all. It's a ethereal
form of faith. I believe in Jesus Christ. No,that's it. But what does it mean? I'm saved.
In factual sense, what does it really mean?Means I can do whatever I want as long as I
believe in Jesus and I'm a Christian. No. Isaid I'm a Christian. That's all that matters.
(26:41):
And we have several fathers of the church. AndAgostin, I think, is lapidary on this one.
He says, he who created you without you willnot justify you without you. Perfect. That's
it, I think we, I don't know if we need anythingelse. So we need to put our part for our sanctification.
God sanctifies us and we return to him sayingyes, and we put into our soul what he preaches
(27:10):
to us and what we believe. We offer with thework of our hands, something as a grateful
child back to God. But knowing that gift orreturning that was given to us doesn't really
have a lot of value in itself. It's a gift oflove. We recommend a book, a very interesting
(27:31):
one, called The Drama of Salvation. That isvery, very amazing. We'll put it here in the
notes because it's really, really very interesting.And again, we have only half an hour to deal
with all of this. But let's go to the last one,which is The Rule of Mary and the Saints. The
Catholic Church teaches we venerate our lady,we do not adore our lady. We venerate Mary
(27:53):
and the saints. And we believe in the intercessionof saints, meaning that saints can pray to
God on behalf of the living. While the Protestantssay they do not venerate our lady, and they
believe that Jesus is the sole mediator betweenGod and mankind. It states that Jesus is the
sole mediator. Of course. It doesn't contradictthat. No. But if not. Why did Jesus say, on
(28:19):
the cross before dying, this is your mother?Why did he say this if she's not necessary?
But also, why did he appoint apostles? He'sGod, he could have just done it himself. Didn't
need a bunch of hopeless humans, do it himself.But the same people who have all these objections
are more than willing to come to your houseand pray on you. I'm not exactly sure what
(28:43):
that is. they'll lay their hands on you andstart doing all kinds of stuff. What is that?
That's intercession! You're interceding! So,you don't like Our Lady, let's just put it,
you don't like her, you don't like the saintsto be like yourself. Yeah. Okay. But from the
very, very beginning, the church has devotionto Our Lady, and look what St. Cyril of Alexandria
(29:05):
has to say, he says, Our Lady, God-bearer, isa venerable treasure in the whole world. And
look at this, He says, our lady is an unquenchablelamp, a crown of virginity, a scepter of orthodoxy,
an indestructible temple. He says, he's thecontainer of the uncontainable, his mother
and virgin. More, through our lady, the trinityis glorified, the holy cross is celebrated,
(29:36):
and adored everywhere on earth. Through ourlady, the heavens exult with joy, the angels
and archangels are glad. the demons are putto flight and the tempter fell from heaven.
Oh my goodness. But this is again what the churchbelieved. This was a homily said during the
ecumenical council of Ephesus. So. So be carefulbecause the devil doesn't like Mary also. Oh
(30:01):
no. So be careful. It's a thermometer movie.Watch out. Oops.
So this is the position of intercession andthis is the big differences, right, that we
have between the Catholic Church. Of course,this is just to inspire the audience to go
and look for more, more things, right? The Fathersof the Church are so many, but the Council
(30:22):
of Trent, which also infuriates the Protestantsa lot, they said that whenever you find three
or more Fathers of the Church that have consensuson one point, they say that is Catholic doctrine.
So everything we have read here, we have threeor more fathers of the church to verify the
position of the Catholic. So we hope that thisdivision one day will disappear. Yes. And that
(30:50):
all those who want to follow Jesus Christ, they'regoing to be united again and to follow him
in the way he wants to be followed. Of course,with his mother, with his father Joseph, with
the apostles, with all the saints, And the wholemystical body will be one body and not divided.
(31:12):
Beautiful. And how much we would profit, ifyou imagine the knowledge of the scripture
that in some protestant fields, the interestand the good sense of starting that, it would
come also to the Catholic Church. That wouldbe it. Absolutely. There are some who really
write things very interesting and their booksare very enlightening on one aspect, of course,
(31:34):
of the word of God, et cetera. but extremelyinteresting. Father, can you give us a blessing?
Maybe asking our lady to somehow bring us alltogether in a good position. Exactly, the Lord
be with you. And with your spirit. And may AlmightyGod bless you, the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit. Amen. Go in peace. Salve Maria.Salve Maria.
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