August 1, 2024 • 30 mins
🕊️✨ Discover the profound beauty of interpreting the Bible through a Catholic lens in this enlightening episode of "Salve Maria" with Fr. Giuseppe Scollo, assistant professor of biblical theology at St. Augustine Seminary in Toronto, Canada. Learn why understanding the original languages of the Bible—Hebrew for the Old Testament and Greek for the New Testament—is crucial for uncovering the true meanings intended by the sacred authors.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Why would you as a grandchild want to learnthe language of your grandma? Because you want
to understand more, you want to have that relationshipthat otherwise if you don't speak that language,
you can't really understand. The literal translation,which is the meaning intended by the author
and literalistically, which is you open a dictionaryand you word for word. So what is Jesus? What
(00:24):
does he mean when he says, plaque your eye?If he scandalizes, does he mean literally we
will all, many of us will be blind. Is thatwhat Christ wants? No. Is it hate your father
and mother in the Gospel of Luke? Does it meanhate the way we understand it? No. Traditore,
traditore in Italian, or translator, traitor.It works in English too. So, because you do
(00:46):
lose a lot in the translation, let's say, whatis the real translation? Some many times I've
been asked this question. What Bible, what translationis the best? A beautiful book here that is
the strength needed to enter the kingdom ofGod. And since you are a specialist on biblical,
theology, how do we get from the Bible the strengthneeded?
(01:22):
So welcome back to Salve Maria, the podcastof A Heralds of the Gospel. How are you, Father?
Salve Maria, we are super happy to have todayFather Giuseppe Scholar once again with us.
Thank you again for this grace. It's an opportunityfor me really to share with you and also to
learn from you from this discussion and alsoto share what God has given me. So, yeah. No,
(01:47):
no, it's our pleasure. Father, as you know already,because we had already one program with Father,
he's assistant professor of biblical theologyhere at St. Augustine Seminary in Toronto,
Canada. Those who are watching from abroad,well, you know, Father, you can, if you were
here in Toronto, you can find Father in many,many places, right? Because he's also a key
speaker in many events, and it's a joy to havehim here today. Father, well, one of your specialties,
(02:15):
of course, right, is Hebrew in the Old Testament,Greek in the New Testament. The Bible is, as
you teach, is something that, well, this hasbeen already translated, we were saying the
last time, in 2,000 languages. In the end ofthe story, it becomes a little bit complicated
because as we say in English, many things getlost in translation, right? And when it comes
(02:40):
to Greek, which is predominant in the New Testament,sorry, what's important then to study? Hebrew,
to study Greek, and to come to know the meaningsthat the sacred authors had when they wrote
the Bible. Because that's something that confusessometimes our common Catholics. Yeah, talking
(03:02):
about Canada and Toronto, many people here comefrom their parents or grandparents, let's say,
many Italians. When we celebrate the sacramentsand times, funerals, You know, they talk about
their grandma, the Italian, you know, they usedto make meatballs or whatever. So, but I'm
saying they, it's important. I would say, whywould you as a grandchild want to learn the
(03:26):
language of your grandma? Because you want tounderstand more, you want to have that relationship.
Otherwise, if you don't speak that language,you can't really understand what she means
and is out of love. So the same thing I wouldsay, it's about the scriptures. You want to,
if you have this opportunity to go deeper andcome to know the meaning, the expression, because
(03:51):
there is an expression we say also traditore,traduttore, traditore in Italian, or translator.
It works in English too. So because you do losea lot in the translation, let's say, what is
the real translation? Many times I've been askedthis question, what Bible, what translation
(04:11):
is the best? It depends. It all depends whatyou want. Is it a literalistic translation
necessarily the best? No, because if you wantto translate in a language an expression into
another language, you cannot translate it. Likewhen you say in English, break a leg. If you
say that to an Italian word by word, he willsay, you break a leg. What are you telling
(04:34):
me to break a leg? Or, and in Italian instead,the best way you translate that expression
doesn't make any sense whatsoever in English.You would say, in bocca al lupo, which means
in the mouth of the wolf. That basically letthe wolf eat you. I say, what? Let him eat
you, not me. It just doesn't, you lose it. Soto go to the origin, A good translation already
(05:01):
translates for you the meaning of what thatexpression is. But again, sometimes it's good
to leave it literalistic. There's also a differencebetween literal translation, which is the meaning
intended by the author, and literalistically,which is you open a dictionary and you word
for word. So what does Jesus mean when he says,plaque your eye? If he scandalizes, does he
(05:25):
mean literally many of us would be blind? Isthat what Christ wants? No. Is it hate your
father and mother in the gospel of Luke? Doesit mean hate the way we understand it? No.
It means in a different truth. I loved Jacob.I hated Esau. It means God chose Jacob and
he was not because he was better than Esau.So there is always to know the language is
(05:51):
always good, but good Bibles have that explainwhy the authors have translated it that way.
And maybe they even tell you literally saysthis, but this is the meaning. So this is not
a common knowledge in our Catholic congregations,right? Because most of us have difficulties
(06:12):
reading the Bible. I mean, many of our in ouraudience, right? Don't have that habit yet.
And we hope that after this series of programs,they will feel inspired not to get into it.
But also, Father, when we are questioned aboutour faith, especially by our Protestant, separated
brothers and so on, they come with allegationsthat are impressive and they come quoting,
(06:36):
sometimes Greek and this and that, that go tothe origins. And one common topic that we were
dealing with some programs ago is that passagewhere, at a certain moment, they come and say,
oh, the brothers of Jesus. were there. And so,of course, Protestant said then, Our Lady was
(06:58):
not perpetually virgin. Joseph and Joseph andOur Lady had more children because he had brothers,
right? And when it comes to this literalistic,especially it's English, or could be other
Latin languages, doesn't matter, right? So becauseyour specialty is in Greek in the New Testament,
I wanted to ask you then, how do we explainthat passage where we say, the brothers of
(07:23):
Jesus. Okay, good question. This truly comesup also at school many times when I teach.
Well, we have to know that the word, chai inHebrew or adelfos in Greek does not just simply
mean physical brothers. It can mean brothersin faith. We are all children of Abraham, especially
(07:50):
the Jewish sons. of this common father, whichis Abraham. And so many times brothers is used
to mean fellow Jews or in the letters of St.Paul can mean fellow Christians, fellow, the
shares, brothers in faith. And I remember forinstance, the fact that there is this moment
(08:15):
I want to read, it's okay if I read somethingfrom the scripture.
In Acts of the Apostles, I have it here whenthe church is gathered with also the Virgin
Mary. Acts 1 verse 14 and following says, Allthese joined in continuous prayer together
(08:39):
with several women, including Mary, the motherof Jesus, and with his brothers. And then he
continues, verse 15. One day Peter stood upto speak to the brothers. And there is a here
parenthesis. There were about 120 persons inthe congregations. And then close the parenthesis,
(09:02):
Peter starts speaking, says, Brothers, the passageof the scripture had to be fulfilled in which
the Holy Spirit and so on and so forth. So it'sPeter calling brothers, and is that this has
120 brothers? Not physically for sure. And thereis Mary. with the mother of Jesus with his
(09:22):
brothers. How do you interpret these brothers?The church fathers spoke a lot, especially
in the context of defending the virginity ofMary, Saint Joseph being this protector of
her virginity. But they speak about this, SaintAugustine would speak about Saint Joseph's
(09:46):
also virginity. Some other fathers mentionedthat Joseph had other brothers, other sons,
sorry, from his first marriage, and so theywould be half-brothers. Or St. Ambrose speaks
of, for instance, of brothers meaning cousins,so relative in the same family. Just a reference
(10:08):
that comes to my mind from the Old Testamentwhen God says to Moses,
I will send another one like you. So the Messiah,the new Moses, will be taken from his brothers.
Is he talking about physical brothers? No. Andso many other examples you could take. So it
(10:29):
could be fellow countrymen, fellow brothersin the faith, it could be relatives, an extended
family. And so in that sense, it is not, wecannot just take one meaning and apply it to
all of them. And in the case of Christ, we needto see this also with the help of the tradition
(10:51):
and the magisterium as well. That's why I sawthe scripture fails so much, right? Because
if we just close and narrow our mind towardsthere, then there is nothing that we can rely
on and also, well, it becomes very difficult,right? It's very, one thing of the things that...
(11:12):
One of the things I really loved learning wasa discovery for me. It was when I was studying
in Rome that to come to know, I also studieda bit of Aramaic. Why? Targumic Aramaic. Because
many people say, yeah, the Targums were writtenmuch later after the New Testament. So, we
(11:33):
don't need to read that. But they do collectancient... traditions perhaps, the traditions
were older, they came to be written later, andto know how in a synagogue, the time of Christ,
Jews would interpret the Old Testament, howChrist would have heard what was the common
interpretation of Scripture at this time. Thatwas oral tradition. That's very interesting.
(11:59):
I give you an example that I use also in class.When Jesus says in the Gospel of Matthew, it
tells this parable of the king. that goes, heleaves some talents or some plots or lines,
I don't remember now, and then he goes awayand then he comes to collect and they kill
the first, they kill the second prophet andhe sends more, they say, I'll send my son,
which by the way, it just tells how crazy itis, the love of God, they sent his son when
(12:22):
they killed already everybody else anyway, butthis is, and this is, that's why you've heard
it was written, the stone rejected by the buildershas become the cornerstone. What's he talking
about, a stone rejected? In the context of theparable, It's clear the connection between
Jesus, the son of this king in the parable thatis Jesus talking about himself, and the stone.
(12:44):
Well, in Hebrew, the word stone is heaven, andthe word son is Ben. There's already, it's
just an aleph of a difference, and that's alreadyin Hebrew, but when you go to the Aramaic,
in the Targumic Aramaic, which is much later,after Christ, but when you go to the, and you
(13:08):
read, for instance, that of the, that psalm,it says the word they use to say the sun, the
stone rejected by the builders is actually aword which means the sun. Stalia means the
sun. It can mean also other things, the lamb,it can mean, but it's very interesting that
already in this, let's say, oral tradition thatinterprets the written tradition. It's not
(13:35):
just the sun, the stone, it's the sun. So itmakes sense. Makes total sense and so beautiful,
my goodness. Father, let's go to a quick breakbecause we have also some commercials coming.
And then we come back with more implicationsthat common Catholics need to know so that
we can also defend our faith based in all thisknowledge that you can today transmit us and
(13:58):
it's so beautiful. Thank you. We'll come backin a moment. Salve Maria! I'm Fr. Ryan Murphy
of the Heralds of the Gospel, and I'm delightedto extend an invitation to each and every one
of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection, of
soulless end of prayer. That's why I would liketo personally invite you to join us every day
(14:23):
at 3 pm for a special and powerful devotion,the Divine Mercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy
Chaplet is a beautiful prayer that embodiesthe boundless compassion of our Lord. It's
a time to come together as a community, regardlessof where we are, and lift up our intentions,
(14:45):
our hopes, and even our burdens to the heartof Jesus. Imagine all around the world countless
voices uniting in prayer at this very hour.It's a moment of connection, of spiritual unity.
and of seeking God's mercy in a troubled world.So mark your calendars, set your alarms, and
(15:08):
make a commitment to join us each day at 3 p.m.Tune in and experience the transformative power
of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a sanctuaryof peace amidst the noise of life. And thank
you for being a part of our Herald's CanadaYouTube channel. Together, let's embark on
(15:31):
this journey of faith, hope, and mercy. I'mlooking forward to praying with you every day
at 3 p.m. May God's love and mercy shine uponyou always. And until we meet again, may Almighty
God bless you, the Father and the Son and theHoly Spirit. Amen. So welcome back to this
(15:53):
segment. We are here with Fr. Joseph Escolo,and we are discussing beautiful aspects of
our faith, and sometimes... how these beautifultruths are there written. And we, because we
don't know the original languages, Greek especially,we don't know the beauty. And Father, I wanted
to bring this one because I have read it onlineand in many, many places. When the angel greets
(16:17):
our lady, and he says, Hail Mary, full of grace.And that full of grace, I understand, is a
very particular, not just what is lost in translationin our English, right? full of grace means
a lot in Greek. Is that? So in Greek, thereare, there are verbs have not only tenses,
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but like present, past, future, but they alsohave something we don't have in our language,
which is called aspect. So some tenses, likea imperfect, present tense, imperfect tense,
they express an action that is continuing, likegoing on. And in the past, I'm saying, I don't
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know if I lost you in translation now, but inthe past tense, this present continuous aspects
really in the perfect tense, keheritomen, filledwith grace, is really a past that in Greek
underlines the present effect of that action.So that means you could translate it just with
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a present, like we do, full of grace. You arefull of grace. Literally, you've been filled
with grace, and therefore you're still fullof grace. So it is something that is very meaningful
already if you go to the Greek, the grammar.And yes, grace means gratis. What God gives
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us is you don't have to earn it. That's thegood news of Christianity. That is free. We
don't have... And then in Latin it's very interestingbecause in Italian at least we say... We say
thank you after we receive Grazia. That is thegrace of God. You receive grace, then you can
(18:05):
be thankful. You can be grateful after receivinggrace. Grace is really a gift. Love allows
us for free. And you see, the hidden meaningof the words projects so much about our lady,
right? That unfortunately, many people haveissues with our lady, right? Because of the
lack of understanding of what you just explained.Father, I wanted to go to something very, very
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particular because you wrote a beautiful bookhere that is The Strength Needed to Enter the
Kingdom of God. And since you are a specialiston biblical theology, how do we get from the
Bible the strength needed to do this beautifulthing which is entering the kingdom of God?
(18:51):
A few words for our audience. I just wanna doa parenthesis before that. I never thought
when I was a seminary, I was going to writean entire book on one verse of the Bible, but
that's something God can do. And it was amazingfor me to see how God kept opening all the
doors. And I had questions at the end of everychapter, which moved me to the next chapter.
(19:13):
I did research and confirmed the results ofthe previous chapter. So it was like, it was
really digging into the Word of God. And thatword that I used in the title, strength. needed
to enter kingdom of God. It's really been translatedmost times with violence. What is this violence
(19:34):
that we need to enter the kingdom of God? Nowif you say that, I say because I'm Sicilian.
No, no, that's not it. It's really the commondenominator of this verb. And I mean, it was
really, it came up, it's the idea of strength.That's why in the title, also my director said,
you can choose, you can put a title that catchesthe attention, uses the violence need, or you
(19:59):
can go to a descriptive title, really it's thestrength. What is the strength, first of all,
and then how do we get it? The strength neededto enter the kingdom of God in my thesis, because
that was actually my doctoral thesis, what theLord has inspired me and I saw was that it's
really the violence of love, not the love ofviolence, is the strength. of the Shema Israel,
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you shall love the Lord your God with all yourheart, your mind and your strength. To love
God with all your strength. And in the Jewishtradition, that strength has to do with money,
with mammon. You cannot love God and mammon.You shall either love one and hate the other,
vice versa. And anyway, but really, how do weget the strength to love God with all? our
(20:53):
heart, an undivided heart that is, you know,that comes from faith. And because in the early
church, there was used to be, and now with theSecond Vatican Council, the church has reintroduced
the catechumen, the RCIA, we say in English,the Christian initiation. There was a dialogue
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when an adult, and today too, an adult needsto be baptized. cannot just be baptized. First,
the bishop wants to see some signs of faith.Baptism comes to confirm that faith. There's
a moment when there's this dialogue. You say,what do you ask of the Church of God? Even
the children infant baptism, there's this dialogueat the beginning when you welcome the child
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and they say, what do you ask of the Church?And there's a note there in the right that
says the answer is not just baptism, you cananswer faith or eternal life. Why? Because
in the early church, the dialogue went likethat. The bishop asks, what do you ask of God's
church? And the answer would be faith. Whatdoes faith give you? The bishop would ask you,
and your answer would be, where's eternal life?And the bishop say, if you want to have eternal
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life, I show you how to get it. You shall loveGod. You know, the gospel of, the synoptic
gospel have this, that these young men, theygo, how should I do to have eternal life? That's
what the bishop is going to and says, if youwant to have eternal life, you shall love God
with all your heart, your mind, your strength.So it is a result. This kind of strength comes
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from faith. Or it's a faith is given to us inbaptism as a seed, but it needs to be activated.
It needs to be revived. That's it needs to havewater and the sun. Otherwise you put the in
a pot inside, shut it in the closet, it willalways remain a seed. the seed doesn't die,
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that's not the fruit remains. We're always sittingin 2000 years of Christianity and it has become
something stable. But when you quote the earlyChristians, how much they had this present.
And also with the perspective of martyrdom too.So you go, you ask, what are you asking? Faith,
I ask eternal life. If we had that, as freshnowadays, knowing our pews, how beautiful this
(23:11):
would be and how inspirational it is, right?For all of us to. to re calibrate in that perspective,
right? Even the words eternal life, which arebiblical, mean nothing. What does it mean,
eternal life? For sure something good, it soundsgood. But really, to have a life that doesn't
die, the life of Jesus Christ, when Christ rosefrom the dead, it's not like it didn't come
(23:35):
back to the same kind of life he had before,like Lazarus. Lazarus eventually died again.
The light, the I don't know if that's the rightword. The substance of this new life Christ
has, it's a life that doesn't die. Let's overcomedeath, suffering, and yet he kept his wounds
and it's amazing. And that's what faith givesus, that things that happen to us in our lives,
(23:59):
the events of death, don't kill us. If you havethe spirit of the risen Christ, you don't die.
Like Saint Paul would say, we are persecutedevery day but not destroyed. We are, I don't
know. carrying in our body the dying of Christ,of Jesus, every day, and yet we show this eternal,
and this joy that even the midst of suffering,it's something amazing, if you only knew what
(24:21):
that meant, then we will look for it, they willask you, and we'll go, how can I have it? That's
the only way that you can explain the earlymartyrs and the terrible tortures that they
suffered, and they were, I mean, they were singing.They were singing. talking about this in some
other programs, but there is a church in Rome,the Church of St. Stephen is a round church.
(24:46):
Yeah. Well, have you seen the when the whenthe visitors come, typically the last two,
three minutes because they leave. But you see,they had clothes made of iron and they were
they were literally destroying children, women,old people, and they were singing, as you say.
(25:06):
So. This story of Saint Felicity or Perpetua,I forget now, I always buy with names, but
of these early martyrs, that's when she's thereand she's, I think she was pregnant. Yes, Perpetua,
no, she had a baby. She had a baby and the Romansoldier went to see her, now you're crying,
(25:29):
see tomorrow, wait for tomorrow. And now you'resuffering, tomorrow you will see what's gonna
happen if you already suffering. Now she says,Today I'm suffering, tomorrow it will be Jesus
Christ suffering in me. She answered somethinglike that. And that's true. That's the experience
of eternal life inside of us. Father, to wrapup the episode today, for people who are listening
(25:50):
and would like to start reading the Bible properly,from the heart of the church, as people say,
what would you advise so that they can startsomehow somewhere? I would say, as I think
I mentioned in the previous episode that Whatis really important is to have a Christian
initiation to the scriptures. Yes, that is good,but it is the knowledge that is more existential.
(26:16):
Again, the Word of God was written, the Biblewas written not to be studied. The purpose
is to become alive in a body that is the church,to have a community, a group, a reality in
the church where you feel that God speaks toyou and in the liturgy of the word. a mass
(26:36):
or just if you do have literature, the wordeven without mass where the and that's something
the church teaches, the Magisterium teachesthat the privileged place where the word of
God, the meaning of the word of God, the scripturesbecomes alive, it's the liturgy. At times,
you know, I'm celebrating a mass or even withmy own community and we pray and we celebrate
(27:02):
the word and there are things that come to mymind, even my own. So I have to write down
that because I never thought of that and yetI just said it, right? And I say, wow, it's
true, because the Holy Spirit is the interpreterof scripture. The Holy Spirit acts in the liturgy.
So in the sense that I would say the most importantthing is to have this journey of faith where
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you grow in faith with whatever group realityyou find. And that so that the word becomes
real in your life, becomes flesh in you. Andthen yes, if you also have this interest in
studying, but mainly the language of the Bibleis a language of faith. So the more the Father
(27:46):
and the Father said, the more you grow, youconvert, you grow in faith, the more the Bible
will be meaningful for you. And... There isjust the last thing I want to say that the
book of Revelation, there is chapter reallychapter four finally, I think that there is
(28:07):
this book that is sealed with seven seals andthey all start crying because nobody can open
it. And if this were the book of scriptures,the only one who opens it is a lamb that has
been slaughtered and yet it's alive and standing.So we say that sometimes I said this before.
(28:27):
is really who can open this book and be meaningfulfor himself or herself in their life is really
the person who has received the spirit of thelamb. If you have the spirit of the lamb that
does not resist evil, that turns the other cheek,that loves the enemy, which is a gift of faith,
(28:48):
it gives eternal life, then you can open thisbook and instead of tears you'll have You're
so joy, perhaps. Ah, so beautiful. Of course,of course. Well, Father, maybe you can give
us a final blessing here to be able to openthat book. All right, well, the Lord be with
you. And with your spirit. May the Lord giveus all the desire and also the possibility,
(29:18):
the chance, the opportunity to convert in thesense of really drawing. closer to the Lord
with our own reality of sin, perhaps of weakness,and that this weakness in this sins we may
meet with the love of God for us through theScriptures. And may Almighty God bless you,
(29:42):
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.Father Giuseppe, thank you so much for being
with us and we hope that you can come othertimes as well to continue showing us the path
here when it comes to biblical perspectives.Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. God bless
you. Thank you.
Why would you as a grandchild want to learnthe language of your grandma? Because you want
to understand more, you want to have that relationshipthat otherwise if you don't speak that language,
you can't really understand. The literal translation,which is the meaning intended by the author
and literalistically, which is you open a dictionaryand you word for word. So what is Jesus? What
(00:24):
does he mean when he says, plaque your eye?If he scandalizes, does he mean literally we
will all, many of us will be blind. Is thatwhat Christ wants? No. Is it hate your father
and mother in the Gospel of Luke? Does it meanhate the way we understand it? No. Traditore,
traditore in Italian, or translator, traitor.It works in English too. So, because you do
(00:46):
lose a lot in the translation, let's say, whatis the real translation? Some many times I've
been asked this question. What Bible, what translationis the best? A beautiful book here that is
the strength needed to enter the kingdom ofGod. And since you are a specialist on biblical,
theology, how do we get from the Bible the strengthneeded?
(01:22):
So welcome back to Salve Maria, the podcastof A Heralds of the Gospel. How are you, Father?
Salve Maria, we are super happy to have todayFather Giuseppe Scholar once again with us.
Thank you again for this grace. It's an opportunityfor me really to share with you and also to
learn from you from this discussion and alsoto share what God has given me. So, yeah. No,
(01:47):
no, it's our pleasure. Father, as you know already,because we had already one program with Father,
he's assistant professor of biblical theologyhere at St. Augustine Seminary in Toronto,
Canada. Those who are watching from abroad,well, you know, Father, you can, if you were
here in Toronto, you can find Father in many,many places, right? Because he's also a key
speaker in many events, and it's a joy to havehim here today. Father, well, one of your specialties,
(02:15):
of course, right, is Hebrew in the Old Testament,Greek in the New Testament. The Bible is, as
you teach, is something that, well, this hasbeen already translated, we were saying the
last time, in 2,000 languages. In the end ofthe story, it becomes a little bit complicated
because as we say in English, many things getlost in translation, right? And when it comes
(02:40):
to Greek, which is predominant in the New Testament,sorry, what's important then to study? Hebrew,
to study Greek, and to come to know the meaningsthat the sacred authors had when they wrote
the Bible. Because that's something that confusessometimes our common Catholics. Yeah, talking
(03:02):
about Canada and Toronto, many people here comefrom their parents or grandparents, let's say,
many Italians. When we celebrate the sacramentsand times, funerals, You know, they talk about
their grandma, the Italian, you know, they usedto make meatballs or whatever. So, but I'm
saying they, it's important. I would say, whywould you as a grandchild want to learn the
(03:26):
language of your grandma? Because you want tounderstand more, you want to have that relationship.
Otherwise, if you don't speak that language,you can't really understand what she means
and is out of love. So the same thing I wouldsay, it's about the scriptures. You want to,
if you have this opportunity to go deeper andcome to know the meaning, the expression, because
(03:51):
there is an expression we say also traditore,traduttore, traditore in Italian, or translator.
It works in English too. So because you do losea lot in the translation, let's say, what is
the real translation? Many times I've been askedthis question, what Bible, what translation
(04:11):
is the best? It depends. It all depends whatyou want. Is it a literalistic translation
necessarily the best? No, because if you wantto translate in a language an expression into
another language, you cannot translate it. Likewhen you say in English, break a leg. If you
say that to an Italian word by word, he willsay, you break a leg. What are you telling
(04:34):
me to break a leg? Or, and in Italian instead,the best way you translate that expression
doesn't make any sense whatsoever in English.You would say, in bocca al lupo, which means
in the mouth of the wolf. That basically letthe wolf eat you. I say, what? Let him eat
you, not me. It just doesn't, you lose it. Soto go to the origin, A good translation already
(05:01):
translates for you the meaning of what thatexpression is. But again, sometimes it's good
to leave it literalistic. There's also a differencebetween literal translation, which is the meaning
intended by the author, and literalistically,which is you open a dictionary and you word
for word. So what does Jesus mean when he says,plaque your eye? If he scandalizes, does he
(05:25):
mean literally many of us would be blind? Isthat what Christ wants? No. Is it hate your
father and mother in the gospel of Luke? Doesit mean hate the way we understand it? No.
It means in a different truth. I loved Jacob.I hated Esau. It means God chose Jacob and
he was not because he was better than Esau.So there is always to know the language is
(05:51):
always good, but good Bibles have that explainwhy the authors have translated it that way.
And maybe they even tell you literally saysthis, but this is the meaning. So this is not
a common knowledge in our Catholic congregations,right? Because most of us have difficulties
(06:12):
reading the Bible. I mean, many of our in ouraudience, right? Don't have that habit yet.
And we hope that after this series of programs,they will feel inspired not to get into it.
But also, Father, when we are questioned aboutour faith, especially by our Protestant, separated
brothers and so on, they come with allegationsthat are impressive and they come quoting,
(06:36):
sometimes Greek and this and that, that go tothe origins. And one common topic that we were
dealing with some programs ago is that passagewhere, at a certain moment, they come and say,
oh, the brothers of Jesus. were there. And so,of course, Protestant said then, Our Lady was
(06:58):
not perpetually virgin. Joseph and Joseph andOur Lady had more children because he had brothers,
right? And when it comes to this literalistic,especially it's English, or could be other
Latin languages, doesn't matter, right? So becauseyour specialty is in Greek in the New Testament,
I wanted to ask you then, how do we explainthat passage where we say, the brothers of
(07:23):
Jesus. Okay, good question. This truly comesup also at school many times when I teach.
Well, we have to know that the word, chai inHebrew or adelfos in Greek does not just simply
mean physical brothers. It can mean brothersin faith. We are all children of Abraham, especially
(07:50):
the Jewish sons. of this common father, whichis Abraham. And so many times brothers is used
to mean fellow Jews or in the letters of St.Paul can mean fellow Christians, fellow, the
shares, brothers in faith. And I remember forinstance, the fact that there is this moment
(08:15):
I want to read, it's okay if I read somethingfrom the scripture.
In Acts of the Apostles, I have it here whenthe church is gathered with also the Virgin
Mary. Acts 1 verse 14 and following says, Allthese joined in continuous prayer together
(08:39):
with several women, including Mary, the motherof Jesus, and with his brothers. And then he
continues, verse 15. One day Peter stood upto speak to the brothers. And there is a here
parenthesis. There were about 120 persons inthe congregations. And then close the parenthesis,
(09:02):
Peter starts speaking, says, Brothers, the passageof the scripture had to be fulfilled in which
the Holy Spirit and so on and so forth. So it'sPeter calling brothers, and is that this has
120 brothers? Not physically for sure. And thereis Mary. with the mother of Jesus with his
(09:22):
brothers. How do you interpret these brothers?The church fathers spoke a lot, especially
in the context of defending the virginity ofMary, Saint Joseph being this protector of
her virginity. But they speak about this, SaintAugustine would speak about Saint Joseph's
(09:46):
also virginity. Some other fathers mentionedthat Joseph had other brothers, other sons,
sorry, from his first marriage, and so theywould be half-brothers. Or St. Ambrose speaks
of, for instance, of brothers meaning cousins,so relative in the same family. Just a reference
(10:08):
that comes to my mind from the Old Testamentwhen God says to Moses,
I will send another one like you. So the Messiah,the new Moses, will be taken from his brothers.
Is he talking about physical brothers? No. Andso many other examples you could take. So it
(10:29):
could be fellow countrymen, fellow brothersin the faith, it could be relatives, an extended
family. And so in that sense, it is not, wecannot just take one meaning and apply it to
all of them. And in the case of Christ, we needto see this also with the help of the tradition
(10:51):
and the magisterium as well. That's why I sawthe scripture fails so much, right? Because
if we just close and narrow our mind towardsthere, then there is nothing that we can rely
on and also, well, it becomes very difficult,right? It's very, one thing of the things that...
(11:12):
One of the things I really loved learning wasa discovery for me. It was when I was studying
in Rome that to come to know, I also studieda bit of Aramaic. Why? Targumic Aramaic. Because
many people say, yeah, the Targums were writtenmuch later after the New Testament. So, we
(11:33):
don't need to read that. But they do collectancient... traditions perhaps, the traditions
were older, they came to be written later, andto know how in a synagogue, the time of Christ,
Jews would interpret the Old Testament, howChrist would have heard what was the common
interpretation of Scripture at this time. Thatwas oral tradition. That's very interesting.
(11:59):
I give you an example that I use also in class.When Jesus says in the Gospel of Matthew, it
tells this parable of the king. that goes, heleaves some talents or some plots or lines,
I don't remember now, and then he goes awayand then he comes to collect and they kill
the first, they kill the second prophet andhe sends more, they say, I'll send my son,
which by the way, it just tells how crazy itis, the love of God, they sent his son when
(12:22):
they killed already everybody else anyway, butthis is, and this is, that's why you've heard
it was written, the stone rejected by the buildershas become the cornerstone. What's he talking
about, a stone rejected? In the context of theparable, It's clear the connection between
Jesus, the son of this king in the parable thatis Jesus talking about himself, and the stone.
(12:44):
Well, in Hebrew, the word stone is heaven, andthe word son is Ben. There's already, it's
just an aleph of a difference, and that's alreadyin Hebrew, but when you go to the Aramaic,
in the Targumic Aramaic, which is much later,after Christ, but when you go to the, and you
(13:08):
read, for instance, that of the, that psalm,it says the word they use to say the sun, the
stone rejected by the builders is actually aword which means the sun. Stalia means the
sun. It can mean also other things, the lamb,it can mean, but it's very interesting that
already in this, let's say, oral tradition thatinterprets the written tradition. It's not
(13:35):
just the sun, the stone, it's the sun. So itmakes sense. Makes total sense and so beautiful,
my goodness. Father, let's go to a quick breakbecause we have also some commercials coming.
And then we come back with more implicationsthat common Catholics need to know so that
we can also defend our faith based in all thisknowledge that you can today transmit us and
(13:58):
it's so beautiful. Thank you. We'll come backin a moment. Salve Maria! I'm Fr. Ryan Murphy
of the Heralds of the Gospel, and I'm delightedto extend an invitation to each and every one
of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection, of
soulless end of prayer. That's why I would liketo personally invite you to join us every day
(14:23):
at 3 pm for a special and powerful devotion,the Divine Mercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy
Chaplet is a beautiful prayer that embodiesthe boundless compassion of our Lord. It's
a time to come together as a community, regardlessof where we are, and lift up our intentions,
(14:45):
our hopes, and even our burdens to the heartof Jesus. Imagine all around the world countless
voices uniting in prayer at this very hour.It's a moment of connection, of spiritual unity.
and of seeking God's mercy in a troubled world.So mark your calendars, set your alarms, and
(15:08):
make a commitment to join us each day at 3 p.m.Tune in and experience the transformative power
of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a sanctuaryof peace amidst the noise of life. And thank
you for being a part of our Herald's CanadaYouTube channel. Together, let's embark on
(15:31):
this journey of faith, hope, and mercy. I'mlooking forward to praying with you every day
at 3 p.m. May God's love and mercy shine uponyou always. And until we meet again, may Almighty
God bless you, the Father and the Son and theHoly Spirit. Amen. So welcome back to this
(15:53):
segment. We are here with Fr. Joseph Escolo,and we are discussing beautiful aspects of
our faith, and sometimes... how these beautifultruths are there written. And we, because we
don't know the original languages, Greek especially,we don't know the beauty. And Father, I wanted
to bring this one because I have read it onlineand in many, many places. When the angel greets
(16:17):
our lady, and he says, Hail Mary, full of grace.And that full of grace, I understand, is a
very particular, not just what is lost in translationin our English, right? full of grace means
a lot in Greek. Is that? So in Greek, thereare, there are verbs have not only tenses,
(16:40):
but like present, past, future, but they alsohave something we don't have in our language,
which is called aspect. So some tenses, likea imperfect, present tense, imperfect tense,
they express an action that is continuing, likegoing on. And in the past, I'm saying, I don't
(17:01):
know if I lost you in translation now, but inthe past tense, this present continuous aspects
really in the perfect tense, keheritomen, filledwith grace, is really a past that in Greek
underlines the present effect of that action.So that means you could translate it just with
(17:23):
a present, like we do, full of grace. You arefull of grace. Literally, you've been filled
with grace, and therefore you're still fullof grace. So it is something that is very meaningful
already if you go to the Greek, the grammar.And yes, grace means gratis. What God gives
(17:44):
us is you don't have to earn it. That's thegood news of Christianity. That is free. We
don't have... And then in Latin it's very interestingbecause in Italian at least we say... We say
thank you after we receive Grazia. That is thegrace of God. You receive grace, then you can
(18:05):
be thankful. You can be grateful after receivinggrace. Grace is really a gift. Love allows
us for free. And you see, the hidden meaningof the words projects so much about our lady,
right? That unfortunately, many people haveissues with our lady, right? Because of the
lack of understanding of what you just explained.Father, I wanted to go to something very, very
(18:29):
particular because you wrote a beautiful bookhere that is The Strength Needed to Enter the
Kingdom of God. And since you are a specialiston biblical theology, how do we get from the
Bible the strength needed to do this beautifulthing which is entering the kingdom of God?
(18:51):
A few words for our audience. I just wanna doa parenthesis before that. I never thought
when I was a seminary, I was going to writean entire book on one verse of the Bible, but
that's something God can do. And it was amazingfor me to see how God kept opening all the
doors. And I had questions at the end of everychapter, which moved me to the next chapter.
(19:13):
I did research and confirmed the results ofthe previous chapter. So it was like, it was
really digging into the Word of God. And thatword that I used in the title, strength. needed
to enter kingdom of God. It's really been translatedmost times with violence. What is this violence
(19:34):
that we need to enter the kingdom of God? Nowif you say that, I say because I'm Sicilian.
No, no, that's not it. It's really the commondenominator of this verb. And I mean, it was
really, it came up, it's the idea of strength.That's why in the title, also my director said,
you can choose, you can put a title that catchesthe attention, uses the violence need, or you
(19:59):
can go to a descriptive title, really it's thestrength. What is the strength, first of all,
and then how do we get it? The strength neededto enter the kingdom of God in my thesis, because
that was actually my doctoral thesis, what theLord has inspired me and I saw was that it's
really the violence of love, not the love ofviolence, is the strength. of the Shema Israel,
(20:26):
you shall love the Lord your God with all yourheart, your mind and your strength. To love
God with all your strength. And in the Jewishtradition, that strength has to do with money,
with mammon. You cannot love God and mammon.You shall either love one and hate the other,
vice versa. And anyway, but really, how do weget the strength to love God with all? our
(20:53):
heart, an undivided heart that is, you know,that comes from faith. And because in the early
church, there was used to be, and now with theSecond Vatican Council, the church has reintroduced
the catechumen, the RCIA, we say in English,the Christian initiation. There was a dialogue
(21:16):
when an adult, and today too, an adult needsto be baptized. cannot just be baptized. First,
the bishop wants to see some signs of faith.Baptism comes to confirm that faith. There's
a moment when there's this dialogue. You say,what do you ask of the Church of God? Even
the children infant baptism, there's this dialogueat the beginning when you welcome the child
(21:36):
and they say, what do you ask of the Church?And there's a note there in the right that
says the answer is not just baptism, you cananswer faith or eternal life. Why? Because
in the early church, the dialogue went likethat. The bishop asks, what do you ask of God's
church? And the answer would be faith. Whatdoes faith give you? The bishop would ask you,
and your answer would be, where's eternal life?And the bishop say, if you want to have eternal
(22:01):
life, I show you how to get it. You shall loveGod. You know, the gospel of, the synoptic
gospel have this, that these young men, theygo, how should I do to have eternal life? That's
what the bishop is going to and says, if youwant to have eternal life, you shall love God
with all your heart, your mind, your strength.So it is a result. This kind of strength comes
(22:26):
from faith. Or it's a faith is given to us inbaptism as a seed, but it needs to be activated.
It needs to be revived. That's it needs to havewater and the sun. Otherwise you put the in
a pot inside, shut it in the closet, it willalways remain a seed. the seed doesn't die,
(22:46):
that's not the fruit remains. We're always sittingin 2000 years of Christianity and it has become
something stable. But when you quote the earlyChristians, how much they had this present.
And also with the perspective of martyrdom too.So you go, you ask, what are you asking? Faith,
I ask eternal life. If we had that, as freshnowadays, knowing our pews, how beautiful this
(23:11):
would be and how inspirational it is, right?For all of us to. to re calibrate in that perspective,
right? Even the words eternal life, which arebiblical, mean nothing. What does it mean,
eternal life? For sure something good, it soundsgood. But really, to have a life that doesn't
die, the life of Jesus Christ, when Christ rosefrom the dead, it's not like it didn't come
(23:35):
back to the same kind of life he had before,like Lazarus. Lazarus eventually died again.
The light, the I don't know if that's the rightword. The substance of this new life Christ
has, it's a life that doesn't die. Let's overcomedeath, suffering, and yet he kept his wounds
and it's amazing. And that's what faith givesus, that things that happen to us in our lives,
(23:59):
the events of death, don't kill us. If you havethe spirit of the risen Christ, you don't die.
Like Saint Paul would say, we are persecutedevery day but not destroyed. We are, I don't
know. carrying in our body the dying of Christ,of Jesus, every day, and yet we show this eternal,
and this joy that even the midst of suffering,it's something amazing, if you only knew what
(24:21):
that meant, then we will look for it, they willask you, and we'll go, how can I have it? That's
the only way that you can explain the earlymartyrs and the terrible tortures that they
suffered, and they were, I mean, they were singing.They were singing. talking about this in some
other programs, but there is a church in Rome,the Church of St. Stephen is a round church.
(24:46):
Yeah. Well, have you seen the when the whenthe visitors come, typically the last two,
three minutes because they leave. But you see,they had clothes made of iron and they were
they were literally destroying children, women,old people, and they were singing, as you say.
(25:06):
So. This story of Saint Felicity or Perpetua,I forget now, I always buy with names, but
of these early martyrs, that's when she's thereand she's, I think she was pregnant. Yes, Perpetua,
no, she had a baby. She had a baby and the Romansoldier went to see her, now you're crying,
(25:29):
see tomorrow, wait for tomorrow. And now you'resuffering, tomorrow you will see what's gonna
happen if you already suffering. Now she says,Today I'm suffering, tomorrow it will be Jesus
Christ suffering in me. She answered somethinglike that. And that's true. That's the experience
of eternal life inside of us. Father, to wrapup the episode today, for people who are listening
(25:50):
and would like to start reading the Bible properly,from the heart of the church, as people say,
what would you advise so that they can startsomehow somewhere? I would say, as I think
I mentioned in the previous episode that Whatis really important is to have a Christian
initiation to the scriptures. Yes, that is good,but it is the knowledge that is more existential.
(26:16):
Again, the Word of God was written, the Biblewas written not to be studied. The purpose
is to become alive in a body that is the church,to have a community, a group, a reality in
the church where you feel that God speaks toyou and in the liturgy of the word. a mass
(26:36):
or just if you do have literature, the wordeven without mass where the and that's something
the church teaches, the Magisterium teachesthat the privileged place where the word of
God, the meaning of the word of God, the scripturesbecomes alive, it's the liturgy. At times,
you know, I'm celebrating a mass or even withmy own community and we pray and we celebrate
(27:02):
the word and there are things that come to mymind, even my own. So I have to write down
that because I never thought of that and yetI just said it, right? And I say, wow, it's
true, because the Holy Spirit is the interpreterof scripture. The Holy Spirit acts in the liturgy.
So in the sense that I would say the most importantthing is to have this journey of faith where
(27:26):
you grow in faith with whatever group realityyou find. And that so that the word becomes
real in your life, becomes flesh in you. Andthen yes, if you also have this interest in
studying, but mainly the language of the Bibleis a language of faith. So the more the Father
(27:46):
and the Father said, the more you grow, youconvert, you grow in faith, the more the Bible
will be meaningful for you. And... There isjust the last thing I want to say that the
book of Revelation, there is chapter reallychapter four finally, I think that there is
(28:07):
this book that is sealed with seven seals andthey all start crying because nobody can open
it. And if this were the book of scriptures,the only one who opens it is a lamb that has
been slaughtered and yet it's alive and standing.So we say that sometimes I said this before.
(28:27):
is really who can open this book and be meaningfulfor himself or herself in their life is really
the person who has received the spirit of thelamb. If you have the spirit of the lamb that
does not resist evil, that turns the other cheek,that loves the enemy, which is a gift of faith,
(28:48):
it gives eternal life, then you can open thisbook and instead of tears you'll have You're
so joy, perhaps. Ah, so beautiful. Of course,of course. Well, Father, maybe you can give
us a final blessing here to be able to openthat book. All right, well, the Lord be with
you. And with your spirit. May the Lord giveus all the desire and also the possibility,
(29:18):
the chance, the opportunity to convert in thesense of really drawing. closer to the Lord
with our own reality of sin, perhaps of weakness,and that this weakness in this sins we may
meet with the love of God for us through theScriptures. And may Almighty God bless you,
(29:42):
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.Father Giuseppe, thank you so much for being
with us and we hope that you can come othertimes as well to continue showing us the path
here when it comes to biblical perspectives.Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. God bless
you. Thank you.
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