August 15, 2024 • 35 mins
🕊️✨ Join us as we explore what is the Dogma of the Assumption, its scriptural foundations, perspectives from the early Church Fathers, Protestant positions, and the rich traditions that surround this important dogma.
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(00:00):
about what is the assumption, where are thescriptural foundations, where are the early
fathers of the church, where are the Protestantpositions, and also to say, okay, how do we
grow in the Russian church? So, to the ancientwriters, right? The early doctors of the church
and know what the tradition of the church was,because not everything that our Lord did is
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recounted in Scripture. Now, Our Lady died,fell asleep in the Lord. That's the term that's
The key about that is that she didn't bringherself to heaven, she was brought by her son
to heaven. Again, it's an action of God. We'renot trying to infer in any way that she's a
deity, that she's the fourth member of the blessedTrinity, which is logically insane. We use
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another word, no? The ascension for Lord JesusChrist and the assumption. The person of Christ
is defended by the strong hedge of Marian theology.But when you take down the hedge of Marian
theology, of the understanding of who Our Ladyis, the very person of Jesus becomes exposed.
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Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
Salve Maria, welcome to this episode on theAssumption of Mary, a phenomenal mystery for
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the Church and also something so beautiful thatevery Catholic needs to know. So Salve Maria,
Father Arthur. Salve Maria. Salve Maria, BrotherJustin. Salve Maria. We're going to go deeply
into some aspects. For those who are actuallyarriving to the podcast and whatnot, we're
going to be very simple. We're going to sayexactly what is the Assumption of Our Lady.
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Right, Father? But before we go there, we'regoing to ask you something if you could right
now, before we start, hit like, because thathelps the podcast to be spread tremendously.
So please, let's start with that. And then yes,we start with the front. So Father, what is
the assumption of Mary?
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Mankind was called to live in paradise. Butbecause of original sin, we are living on earth.
And we know that our life is on earth for acertain time, a certain moment, we will, in
body and soul, we will leave earth and we'llgo to eternal life. So, our Lord Jesus Christ,
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as He was perfect, He didn't have and you haveto die to be married, etc. He died because
he wanted, but he resurrected and he went upto heaven. Mary also being herself perfect,
she also died somehow. We're not sure if shedied or she just fall asleep, but she was taken
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up to heaven in body and soul. as a prefigurationof what is going to happen to each one of us.
So the assumption, that's why it's so important,right? Because it talks about our own resurrection.
Exactly. That's why it is a dogma. It is oneof the four dogmas of the church regarding
Mary. Oui, but some people don't like dogmasthese days. I don't know, some reason. Well,
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maybe they have a dogma that there shouldn'tbe any dogma. That's the only dogma they have.
But there are dogmas, sorry. But dogma is becausewe had to impose it because nobody believes,
but it's just a definition of something thatactually is believed so widely that... All
the dogmas of the church were defined by thePope because it was already evoked properly,
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it was everybody was believing this, etc., andthe Pope just put the seal, yes it is. So...
Let's define and move forward. inside thereare many dogmas, in medicine there are dogmas,
in every science there are dogmas, so in theologyof course there have to be dogmas regarding
God. So Mary was as the document of Pope PiusXII on the 1st of November 1950, he declared
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officially that Mary concluding her life thisworld, she was taking in body and soul up to
heaven. And then we have many other sources,we are going to go through them, especially
St. John Damascenus. Yes, but Father, beforewe go there, there is something that infuriates
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many people because of course they say, wheredid Catholics pick up this in the Bible that
Our Lady was assumed into heaven, body and soul?This is not written there. letter by letter,
therefore it shouldn't be anything that hasa real scriptural basis. And that's the opposite,
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correct me if I'm wrong. I think we've lookedat the biblical proofs for the dogmas of Our
Lady. They assist us very much in scratchingthis out. But then we need to go to the ancient
writers, right? The early doctors of the church.and know what the tradition of the church was,
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because not everything that our Lord did isrecounted in scripture. Now Our Lady died,
fell asleep in the Lord. That's the term thatPius the 12th uses. The Dormition is what the
Eastern Church venerate Our Lady in the assumption.They've emphasized far more on the aspect of
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her falling asleep in the Lord and not beingbitten by the… product of sin, which is death.
So they emphasize their dormition, the Westemphasizes her assumption to her son. And what's
key about that is that she didn't bring herselfto heaven, she was brought by her son to heaven.
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Again, it's an action of God. We're not tryingto infer in any way that she's a deity, that
she's the fourth member of the blessed Trinity,which is logically insane, but none of that.
That's why we use another word, another term,the ascension for the Lord Jesus Christ and
the assumption. Yeah, he ascended by his ownpower. Exactly. And Our Lady was brought to
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heaven. Now, if we look at the biblical basis,we look at Genesis 3.15, the proto-evangelium.
And that's really important because we see therole, the prefigurements, and that's throughout
Scripture, is the prefigurements. We have allof these prototypes, these types that are constantly
by God, by the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament,drawing their attention to a future solution
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to their problem of sin. Then we have the Annunciation.I mean, that is fascinating. One of the most
fascinating things of the Annunciation is thefact that the angel Gabriel sent by God, sent
by God, he didn't come there because he neededto get a cup of coffee and he decided to step
in there and what have you. sent by God, hesays to Our Lady, before she says yes, before
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the Word incarnate is established within her,that Mary was full of grace. No creature had
been full of grace before. No creature, no creature.Adam and Eve were not full of grace, but Our
Lady was full of grace at that point. Now afterthis moment, how much more was she? Wow. Exactly.
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Right? Grace is the life of God, so Mary wasfull of God. Full of God already, before you
said more. And then when she says yes, she'seven more full, because what God wants, God
can do, right? That's what Don Scottus tellsus, right? That's really important. And lastly,
the 12th chapter of Revelation, right? We havethe image of Our Lady, right? We have her,
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the woman clothed in the sun, right? That image,very striking. And those Catholics out there
listening, will be very acquainted with thispassage because it's used on a lot of Our Lady's
feast days throughout the year. So, I mean,the biblical basis, those points are really
amazing, and those are the premier biblicalquotes. We can go also to the wedding feast
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of Cana. We can go to the foot of the crossin John's gospel. We have many other instances.
I have not found a passage yet, please helpme with this, where Our Lady acted wrong. She
was rebuked. Or she did something which wouldhave caused our Lord pain. She was there as
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his loving mother at all times. She sufferedwith him. So their disdain for Our Lady has
no basis. There is something very importanttoo, and everyone who studies biblical theology
from all the fields, even from some Protestantfields, even from people who try to demonstrate
that. the Bible is just fiction, they all agreewith this, that exegesis, which is a discipline
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that helps us to relate passages in between,is so important, because deeply, not a single
statement is complete in the Bible. So whenmany Protestants are infuriated by the fact
that, okay, what is this directly stated? Thatis a very ignorant position, because... you
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need exegesis, we need to analyze the differentparts of the Bible and relate to them. In other
words, the Bible needs to be read in context.That sense, you know, the Bible was not written
to simple minded people. Was not written topeople who don't need any interpretation, don't
need to use intelligence to understand, becausethen it will be for simple terms, you know.
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You know, the Acts of the Apostles, you rememberthe story of the eunuch, Ethiopian eunuch.
who the Holy Spirit brings Philip to help him.Exactly. What does the eunuch say? He's a very
well-educated man. Yeah, for sure. If I haveno one to explain it, how am I going to understand?
This is the position of a humble person. Now,when you think you can pick up the Bible and
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just do your thing. That's not a humble person.That's not a docile person. That's not a person
willing to open their heart to the Holy Spiritand to learn. No, no, that is proud. And also
to try to reduce God to a book. Christianityis very much more the God of experience. Of
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course. The God who's constantly around us.But that's why he came and he didn't send a
book. He couldn't send a book to us. Let mejust print out books and hand them out. The,
the, oh, anything. But no, I would like to callattention on this because, okay. For instance,
our lady and the Ark of the Covenant, the Arkof the Covenant basically symbolizes our lady.
Oh, it's an amazing one. And then you can say,but where is in the Bible? Saying the Ark of
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the Covenant is Mary. No, it's not there. Butin context, it needs to be read, right? So
Father, help me with this because this is reallybeautiful. For instance, the Ark of the Covenant
was a symbol of the divine presence. Oh, truly.Absolutely. It was the highest object of the
people of God. And he contained the presenceof God that was represented by three things,
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by the rod of Aaron, by the tablets of the law,and by a pot of mana, which obviously prefigures
the Eucharist, the real presence. It was thepresence of God, but it was not the real presence.
That's the difference between the mana and theEucharist. A prefigurement and the reality.
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Exactly. So there you go. The Ark symbolizesthe divine presence and Our Lady contains the
divine presence in the moment when she conceives.You know, one point I find very interesting
about this very thing is you could break theTen Commandments, and the Jewish people did
break it many times. You could abuse a manna.They did that many times. But if you dared
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to touch the Ark of the Covenant, you died.That's beautiful. He died. So I really am very
worried for those who abuse Our Lady because...So of course the content of the Ark is Jesus,
of course it's the persecution of Jesus, butthe Ark that contains is Mary. And if we do
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not read the Bible in context, it's a crimebecause we're going to miss all these points.
Then you deny that there is a logic the bookand that's the divine logic. And that's what
we believe. We believe in the divine logic thatis behind the book, that wrote the book and
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that inspired us to understand the book. Anotherphenomenal characteristic of the Ark of the
Covenant was that it symbolized everything thatwas pure and holy in Israel. Absolutely. And
that's what Brother Justin was saying. If youtouched it, even... there was a Levite, I think
that the ark was falling and then he tried tosustain it and died. And it happened. Many
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times. Well, when the Philistines took the ark,they took the Levites with them. They didn't
touch it. Of course. But when there was somethingin their camp, it caused disease. And they
were like, please, we'll give you sacrifices,just take it. And so in the same way, we venerate
our lady because of her purity and because ofher holiness. That's another striking characteristic
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between the Ark of the Covenant and Our Lady.And there is one more that is beautiful too.
I mean, several more, but anyway, I don't knowif we have the time. We already have the cameras
here saying, no, stop, we have to go to a pause.But there is another one that, okay, the Ark
of the Covenant is the bearer of the Covenant.And so everything that symbolizes the Covenant
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of God with Israel... That was the Ark. AndOur Lady also contains the complete fulfillment
of all the Covenants, the last and the mosteverlasting Covenant, which is the coming of
Our Lord. Because She is the Ark, She was theMother. Because She was the one who was called
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to accomplish this Covenant between God andmankind in Herself, which was the birth of
our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the covenant,is the union between God and man, because he
was true God and true man. So he is the accomplishmentof creation. And this happened in Mary. So
she is the arch-elite of the covenant, of thenew covenant. And there is one more that is
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really, really nice. I can't stop without sayingthis because it's very important. I mean, in
the sense that it's written when the visitationhappens. The evangelist. leaves it there because
it's almost like a gentle, you know, what jokeabout it. Why? Because when the Ark was lost
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and that is actually related in the second bookof Samuel, King David goes and retrieves the
Ark and all of these and he brings the Ark tothe temple and everything else. Well, This
is beautiful because everything happens in thesame place, in the mountains of Judea, where
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our lady goes and visits her cousin. So it'sthe two, the two episodes happen on the same
place. So the two arcs cross in the same place,the old arc and the new arc with us, Mary.
So if we do not read this in context, we miss,and we miss a lot. Purso scriptura, I'm so
sorry, but what we can say, right? Unfortunately,that's what it is. What's also interesting
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in the first century Jews, they were never soloscriptura. No. They were always in context
with their teachers and everything. And we asCatholics, we continue that new Israel with
those same traditions that were good and sane.Father Willem, a new word here, production
taught us, is called infomercial. Okay. We'renot going to sell anything, but we've got just
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for a quick pause, a quick break. where we havesome information about our daily Divine Mercy
Chaplet, which is actually growing by the thousands.If you really want to join us every day, please
listen to what Father Ryan Murphy has to say.Salve Maria. I'm Father Ryan Murphy of the
Heralds of the Gospel, and I'm delighted toextend an invitation to each and every one
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of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection, That's
why I would like to personally invite you tojoin us every day at 3pm for a special and
powerful devotion, the Divine Mercy Chaplet.The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a beautiful prayer
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that embodies the boundless compassion of ourLord. It's a time to come together as a community,
regardless of where we are, and lift up our
burdens to the heart of Jesus. Imagine all aroundthe world, countless voices uniting in prayer
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Let this be a sanctuary of peace amidst thenoise of life. Thank you for being a part of
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and mercy. I'm looking forward to praying withyou every day at 3 p.m. May God's love and
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mercy shine upon you always. And until we meetagain. May Almighty God bless you, the Father,
and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. So we'reback in this episode about the Assumption of
Our Lady. And now that we have touched the scripturalbasis, now we have informed everybody that
this beautiful feast consists on the Assumptionof Our Lady to heaven, body, and soul. We would
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like to bring some of the early fathers of thechurch, because we are talking about biblical
sources. And besides the biblical sources thatare so amazing and so beautiful. We can see
how much the early fathers of the church basedthemselves in the scriptures, but also in the
tradition of what their ancestors had seen andwitnessed. Dr. Laius Absolutely. I think that
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one of the greatest doctors of the church isSt. John Damascene of the 8th century. Dr.
Faisal John of Damascus, he was Syrian. Dr.Laius Syrian, exactly. And he… He says clearly
that Mary was put in a tomb because as we know,we don't know if she died or she was just in
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a dormition. Nevertheless, she was surroundedby the apostles and she was put in a tomb.
And then when they went to see the tomb, shewas not there anymore. The tomb was empty.
Nothing explored. No, his witness is super important,no? Because by the eighth century, already
the whole Christendom had, what? incorporatedthis firm believed in the assumption of the
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lady, right? Of course. But it wasn't just Yeah,six, seven hundred. Right, and you have Gregory
of Tours in Gaul in France, and he's preachingthe same thing. So if it was Stuck in the East
and the West East and the West, and it wasn'tlike they were able to pick up a telephone
and call each other. So we were talking aboutsomething that was universal. the idea of denial
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of the assumption really becomes an issue onlyin the 1500s. Firmly believed and established
by Christendom. And also there is, and I thinkpeople watching are going to value this because
there is a council, the Council of Calcedon,right? And so we would like to share something
about that. I don't know, Father, Father Justin,which one would you like to pick up at this?
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Well, Halsedon is probably one of the most importantearly councils of the church. 451, right? Yeah,
451. It follows the council of Ephesus, thecouncil where Nestorius was condemned. And
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why is this so important? And this is a phrasethat comes out of Ephesus, which is that the
person of Christ is defended by a strong hedge.of Marian theology. But when you take down
the hedge of Marian theology, of the understandingof who Our Lady is, and that would be the Theotokos,
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the mother of God coming out of Ephesus, thevery person of Jesus becomes exposed. Either
he is not quite God, maybe he is all God, maybehe has some humanity, is he all human? We're
not sure. And what
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Ephesus, we have Chalcedon. And Chalcedon isfascinating because that is where we today,
our definition of the divinity of Christ, thedefinition comes from there. It comes from
there. So our definition comes from 451. Soit's a divine person and two natures. So it
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affirms that Jesus Christ is fully divine, fullyhuman, existing in two distinct natures, divine
and human. United in one person. He's not twopersons running around. He's one person. This
is very important. Without confusion, withoutchange, division, or separation. How is this
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possible? Because he's God. Anyone else, itwouldn't be possible. Well, it rejects two
extreme heresies, which unfortunately, at thattime, caused major schisms, major schisms in
the church. That is where the Assyrian Churchof the East, that's where the Armenian Church
leaves. Many of the Eastern churches held toa more quasi-Nestorian position or monocyte
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heresy, and that causes this great pain withinthe church. What's also interesting is that
in this council, it is recognized that Romeis the principal
on Santa Noble is number two. This is huge becausethis causes Alexandria to enter into schism
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because they want to be number one. We havethe Tom of Leo, right? Which is the monumental
work of defining Christology. And this is allhappening within the church. So when we wonder
if the church, things are rough now, thingswere rough then. Yes. But why we're bringing
this is very important because it was in orderto define these mysteries about our Lord Jesus
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Christ that Our Lady comes in the middle, andeven her life now is more defined and more
clarified for the future. Of course. So basically,the definition of Mary as Mother of God was
essential to understand Jesus. Without whichyou don't have anything. Exactly. If she was
just a mother of a human person that was unitedto God, she would have been The argument that
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comes out of Ephesus is fascinating. It's verynatural, which is that which mother gives birth
to a person without their soul? Exactly. That'sinsane. Does the soul come in afterwards? No.
So she is the mother of God. Because Nestoriustried the little trick of, no, she's not mother
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of God. She is instead of. Theotokos, he wasChristotokos. No, no, she's the carrier of
Christ, the anointed one. And that gets youto the whole area that Christ is in God, he's
something less. Exactly. Arian kind of. Whatwas really, really striking now is that in
order to define more about the divine and humanperson, divine and human nature of our Lord,
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you need our lady. How can we just separateboth of them? It's impossible, right? So Jesus
will not be divine and he will not be an exception.He will not be an exception. He is really out
of common because there's nobody else in historywho is divine. But he has to be. He has to
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be. He's God. The minute that he's no longerexceptional, this is the heresy that people
have when they make, it would be more of anAryan heresy, where they make Jesus very human
and they forget the divine. which is that he'snot exceptional, he's just like everyone else.
Or they adopted his heresy where he was adoptedby God. God said, I like this man, I'm going
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to make him my son. Well, he can make anyonehis son. Of course, exactly. You know, just
for the sake of quoting, we have some Tignitiusof Antioch, we have some Ieneas of Lyon, we
also have some Justin Martyr, all of them alreadywitness and testify. that in the year 50, 60,
70, 100, 200, early Christendom had the devotionto our lady. So how can we deny that? But I
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like when some people complain, they say, well,where are all the books? You understand what
persecution was going on? We're lucky that wegot as much as we have. True, yeah. But there
are. Well, there's a lot, but we're lucky wehave. But when you start finding in caves and
catacombs, prayers to the mother of God, littlepaintings over tombs of Our Lady. This tells
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us how close the devotion to Our Lady was becausethat was how their grief, they cried out in
grief. They were asking the Queen of Martyrsto help them. They were helping the mother
of God to help them. That's one of the sumtumpresidium, holy mother of God. In the East,
the term mother of God is used almost exclusivelywhenever referring to Our Lady. I think in
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a certain sense it's also a continuation ofthe coming of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit
comes to the world. He comes to the Church.He comes to very special people that are the
beginning of the Church. He comes to Mary andthe Apostles. So also in the same way that
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the Holy Spirit comes down from heaven, theyhad to go up to heaven. So it's the continuation
of the coming of the Holy Spirit, the assumptionof Mary is the continuation, is the conclusion
of this coming of the Holy Spirit that Marywill, because of the Holy Spirit and taken
by the Holy Spirit and as spouse of the HolySpirit, she will go up to heaven. Now some
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people tend to think that this devotion, OurLady, and Doer of Nuts is just a modern invention
or a modern kind of resemblance, but actuallycomes from St. Irenaeus of Lyon. Because he
says that the disobedience of Eve, and how theywere able to define the role of Our Lady already
then, and we're talking about the year 100,more or less. He says that the disobedience
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of Eve caused a knot to happen in history. Andthe one that is the undoer of that knot is
Our Lady, the new Eve, he says. So they alreadyhad that idea, and all, so related also with
the Protestant Evangelium. Our Lady is the onlyone that could undo this knot and free us forever.
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Beautiful. Mary is by going up to heaven, shegives us the idea what's going to happen to
us. All those who are following Jesus, we'regoing to be also taken up and reunited with
Him and taking Him up to heaven because theseparation of the body and the soul is a just
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placement of original sin that is going to befixed. by the redemption of our Lord Jesus
Christ, and by this redemption, which is itshighest point. Well, just to clarify, because
since we are talking about certain Protestantpositions, how beautiful is the difference
between our Lady's assumption and certain theoriesabout the rapture that Protestants have, is
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that at a certain moment, if you get distracted,you may be not be raptured to heaven. But all
of a sudden, God comes. Sucked out of your car.Whoop! And if you were distracted, or maybe
you were sleeping and you were not paying attention,you lost the rapture. And the rapture, brother
Justin, can you explain that better than I?I'm not sure. I'm scared of misrepresenting
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your position. Because what I understand isso ridiculous that I'm worried. Firstly, I
don't find it biblical. And the quote that theyuse, this is the part that confuses me about
the rapture theology. The quote that is usedis in Matthew's gospel. The ones who are taken,
okay, they're taken, right? Good, it soundslike the rapture. Not sure where they go, but
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they're taken. But the next phrase, it says,where the birds are, the bodies are, like,
wait a minute, so they're dead? I'm not understandingthis idea. I don't understand it on many levels.
Firstly, our Lord spoke about the persecutionthat was going to happen. He didn't tell them
that they'd be hidden away in the heavens. Hetold them to flee. Yeah. You didn't tell them
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they'd be sucked up and sent somewhere else.I don't understand where the basis of it is.
It's a theology without theology. It's sortof, it's a do it yourself type thing. It's
the home depot of theology. You just buy youritems and you kind of put them together as
Lego or something. When humans try to play God,they do poorly. Do poorly. They don't do it
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good. So we're not encouraging our audienceto go now and get raptured into the rapture
But at the same time, it's very, very importantto realize that the role of Our Lady, the way
the Catholic Church teaches it, is so beautifuland at the same time places us in a completely
Christological position, right? If there areso much criticism. One thing about it was that
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after Our Lord being ascended, ascending intoheaven, after Pentecost, the Church spreading,
Our Lady begins to live with various communities,Christian communities, and she begins building
them up. One of the traditions that comes outof Ephesus, which is where she lived, was the
Stations of the Cross. She did it in Jerusalem,she brought it to Ephesus, and then from Ephesus
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it spread throughout the church, and it wasas a private devotion, but the ladies of Ephesus
would do it with her, and that became somethingof a devotion, so much so that today a Catholic
church cannot be consecrated if it does nothave Stations of the Cross inside the church.
It's essential. It's essential element of our,of our devotion. And why? Because we're walking
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with Jesus. But whose eyes are we walking with?Whose feelings are we walking with? We're walking
with our lady. Our lady's telling us how itwas like. Now are all of these instances found
in the, the passion narrative? Not exactly.Again, there's a problem. Why? Cause this is
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tradition. Of course. Exactly. The fourth mysteryof the Rosary assumption of Mary into heaven
was already part of the Rosary centuries beforethe dogma of Assumption, because it was already
a popular knowledge. Saint Dominic comes inthe 1200s and the dogma is 1950s. They've been
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celebrating Assumption, Feast of Assumptionin middle of August forever. It's almost forever.
I mean, I don't know when it began. So, I mean,how many miracles, medieval miracles, are linked
to the assumption? So to recap, Father, we havetalked about what is the assumption, where
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are the scriptural foundations, where are theearly fathers of the church, where are the
Protestant positions, and also to say, okay,how do we grow in devotion to our Lady?
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I think we should pray the Rosary, because it'sa prayer that actually, at the same time that
we say nine things to Mary, in the Hail Mary,the Father, the Holy Trinity, also of course,
in the Glory Be, we are meditating about importanttruths and foundations of our faith. that give
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us a basis of our faith, and which we assimilatewhat the Church wants to teach us. And some
things need to be meditated over and over andover, because they are so great that you will
understand them more and more and more. It'snot enough to think once. You have to think
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many times, and the more you think, the moreyou understand, et cetera. So I think that
praying the Rosary and contemplating each mysteryand very especially the Assumption of Mary,
it will give us a tremendous union with whatthe Lord Jesus Christ wants for each one of
us and also an Assumption of each one of usat the end of times. So I want to give the
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blessing for all of you and encourage you inthis wonderful feast of the Assumption of Mary.
to be always united with her, because wherevershe goes, we are going to go with her. The
Lord be with you. May Almighty God bless you,the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Salve Maria.
about what is the assumption, where are thescriptural foundations, where are the early
fathers of the church, where are the Protestantpositions, and also to say, okay, how do we
grow in the Russian church? So, to the ancientwriters, right? The early doctors of the church
and know what the tradition of the church was,because not everything that our Lord did is
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recounted in Scripture. Now, Our Lady died,fell asleep in the Lord. That's the term that's
The key about that is that she didn't bringherself to heaven, she was brought by her son
to heaven. Again, it's an action of God. We'renot trying to infer in any way that she's a
deity, that she's the fourth member of the blessedTrinity, which is logically insane. We use
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another word, no? The ascension for Lord JesusChrist and the assumption. The person of Christ
is defended by the strong hedge of Marian theology.But when you take down the hedge of Marian
theology, of the understanding of who Our Ladyis, the very person of Jesus becomes exposed.
(01:11):
Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
Salve Maria, welcome to this episode on theAssumption of Mary, a phenomenal mystery for
(01:36):
the Church and also something so beautiful thatevery Catholic needs to know. So Salve Maria,
Father Arthur. Salve Maria. Salve Maria, BrotherJustin. Salve Maria. We're going to go deeply
into some aspects. For those who are actuallyarriving to the podcast and whatnot, we're
going to be very simple. We're going to sayexactly what is the Assumption of Our Lady.
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Right, Father? But before we go there, we'regoing to ask you something if you could right
now, before we start, hit like, because thathelps the podcast to be spread tremendously.
So please, let's start with that. And then yes,we start with the front. So Father, what is
the assumption of Mary?
(02:27):
Mankind was called to live in paradise. Butbecause of original sin, we are living on earth.
And we know that our life is on earth for acertain time, a certain moment, we will, in
body and soul, we will leave earth and we'llgo to eternal life. So, our Lord Jesus Christ,
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as He was perfect, He didn't have and you haveto die to be married, etc. He died because
he wanted, but he resurrected and he went upto heaven. Mary also being herself perfect,
she also died somehow. We're not sure if shedied or she just fall asleep, but she was taken
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up to heaven in body and soul. as a prefigurationof what is going to happen to each one of us.
So the assumption, that's why it's so important,right? Because it talks about our own resurrection.
Exactly. That's why it is a dogma. It is oneof the four dogmas of the church regarding
Mary. Oui, but some people don't like dogmasthese days. I don't know, some reason. Well,
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maybe they have a dogma that there shouldn'tbe any dogma. That's the only dogma they have.
But there are dogmas, sorry. But dogma is becausewe had to impose it because nobody believes,
but it's just a definition of something thatactually is believed so widely that... All
the dogmas of the church were defined by thePope because it was already evoked properly,
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it was everybody was believing this, etc., andthe Pope just put the seal, yes it is. So...
Let's define and move forward. inside thereare many dogmas, in medicine there are dogmas,
in every science there are dogmas, so in theologyof course there have to be dogmas regarding
God. So Mary was as the document of Pope PiusXII on the 1st of November 1950, he declared
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officially that Mary concluding her life thisworld, she was taking in body and soul up to
heaven. And then we have many other sources,we are going to go through them, especially
St. John Damascenus. Yes, but Father, beforewe go there, there is something that infuriates
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many people because of course they say, wheredid Catholics pick up this in the Bible that
Our Lady was assumed into heaven, body and soul?This is not written there. letter by letter,
therefore it shouldn't be anything that hasa real scriptural basis. And that's the opposite,
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correct me if I'm wrong. I think we've lookedat the biblical proofs for the dogmas of Our
Lady. They assist us very much in scratchingthis out. But then we need to go to the ancient
writers, right? The early doctors of the church.and know what the tradition of the church was,
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because not everything that our Lord did isrecounted in scripture. Now Our Lady died,
fell asleep in the Lord. That's the term thatPius the 12th uses. The Dormition is what the
Eastern Church venerate Our Lady in the assumption.They've emphasized far more on the aspect of
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her falling asleep in the Lord and not beingbitten by the… product of sin, which is death.
So they emphasize their dormition, the Westemphasizes her assumption to her son. And what's
key about that is that she didn't bring herselfto heaven, she was brought by her son to heaven.
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Again, it's an action of God. We're not tryingto infer in any way that she's a deity, that
she's the fourth member of the blessed Trinity,which is logically insane, but none of that.
That's why we use another word, another term,the ascension for the Lord Jesus Christ and
the assumption. Yeah, he ascended by his ownpower. Exactly. And Our Lady was brought to
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heaven. Now, if we look at the biblical basis,we look at Genesis 3.15, the proto-evangelium.
And that's really important because we see therole, the prefigurements, and that's throughout
Scripture, is the prefigurements. We have allof these prototypes, these types that are constantly
by God, by the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament,drawing their attention to a future solution
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to their problem of sin. Then we have the Annunciation.I mean, that is fascinating. One of the most
fascinating things of the Annunciation is thefact that the angel Gabriel sent by God, sent
by God, he didn't come there because he neededto get a cup of coffee and he decided to step
in there and what have you. sent by God, hesays to Our Lady, before she says yes, before
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the Word incarnate is established within her,that Mary was full of grace. No creature had
been full of grace before. No creature, no creature.Adam and Eve were not full of grace, but Our
Lady was full of grace at that point. Now afterthis moment, how much more was she? Wow. Exactly.
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Right? Grace is the life of God, so Mary wasfull of God. Full of God already, before you
said more. And then when she says yes, she'seven more full, because what God wants, God
can do, right? That's what Don Scottus tellsus, right? That's really important. And lastly,
the 12th chapter of Revelation, right? We havethe image of Our Lady, right? We have her,
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the woman clothed in the sun, right? That image,very striking. And those Catholics out there
listening, will be very acquainted with thispassage because it's used on a lot of Our Lady's
feast days throughout the year. So, I mean,the biblical basis, those points are really
amazing, and those are the premier biblicalquotes. We can go also to the wedding feast
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of Cana. We can go to the foot of the crossin John's gospel. We have many other instances.
I have not found a passage yet, please helpme with this, where Our Lady acted wrong. She
was rebuked. Or she did something which wouldhave caused our Lord pain. She was there as
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his loving mother at all times. She sufferedwith him. So their disdain for Our Lady has
no basis. There is something very importanttoo, and everyone who studies biblical theology
from all the fields, even from some Protestantfields, even from people who try to demonstrate
that. the Bible is just fiction, they all agreewith this, that exegesis, which is a discipline
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that helps us to relate passages in between,is so important, because deeply, not a single
statement is complete in the Bible. So whenmany Protestants are infuriated by the fact
that, okay, what is this directly stated? Thatis a very ignorant position, because... you
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need exegesis, we need to analyze the differentparts of the Bible and relate to them. In other
words, the Bible needs to be read in context.That sense, you know, the Bible was not written
to simple minded people. Was not written topeople who don't need any interpretation, don't
need to use intelligence to understand, becausethen it will be for simple terms, you know.
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You know, the Acts of the Apostles, you rememberthe story of the eunuch, Ethiopian eunuch.
who the Holy Spirit brings Philip to help him.Exactly. What does the eunuch say? He's a very
well-educated man. Yeah, for sure. If I haveno one to explain it, how am I going to understand?
This is the position of a humble person. Now,when you think you can pick up the Bible and
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just do your thing. That's not a humble person.That's not a docile person. That's not a person
willing to open their heart to the Holy Spiritand to learn. No, no, that is proud. And also
to try to reduce God to a book. Christianityis very much more the God of experience. Of
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course. The God who's constantly around us.But that's why he came and he didn't send a
book. He couldn't send a book to us. Let mejust print out books and hand them out. The,
the, oh, anything. But no, I would like to callattention on this because, okay. For instance,
our lady and the Ark of the Covenant, the Arkof the Covenant basically symbolizes our lady.
Oh, it's an amazing one. And then you can say,but where is in the Bible? Saying the Ark of
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the Covenant is Mary. No, it's not there. Butin context, it needs to be read, right? So
Father, help me with this because this is reallybeautiful. For instance, the Ark of the Covenant
was a symbol of the divine presence. Oh, truly.Absolutely. It was the highest object of the
people of God. And he contained the presenceof God that was represented by three things,
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by the rod of Aaron, by the tablets of the law,and by a pot of mana, which obviously prefigures
the Eucharist, the real presence. It was thepresence of God, but it was not the real presence.
That's the difference between the mana and theEucharist. A prefigurement and the reality.
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Exactly. So there you go. The Ark symbolizesthe divine presence and Our Lady contains the
divine presence in the moment when she conceives.You know, one point I find very interesting
about this very thing is you could break theTen Commandments, and the Jewish people did
break it many times. You could abuse a manna.They did that many times. But if you dared
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to touch the Ark of the Covenant, you died.That's beautiful. He died. So I really am very
worried for those who abuse Our Lady because...So of course the content of the Ark is Jesus,
of course it's the persecution of Jesus, butthe Ark that contains is Mary. And if we do
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not read the Bible in context, it's a crimebecause we're going to miss all these points.
Then you deny that there is a logic the bookand that's the divine logic. And that's what
we believe. We believe in the divine logic thatis behind the book, that wrote the book and
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that inspired us to understand the book. Anotherphenomenal characteristic of the Ark of the
Covenant was that it symbolized everything thatwas pure and holy in Israel. Absolutely. And
that's what Brother Justin was saying. If youtouched it, even... there was a Levite, I think
that the ark was falling and then he tried tosustain it and died. And it happened. Many
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times. Well, when the Philistines took the ark,they took the Levites with them. They didn't
touch it. Of course. But when there was somethingin their camp, it caused disease. And they
were like, please, we'll give you sacrifices,just take it. And so in the same way, we venerate
our lady because of her purity and because ofher holiness. That's another striking characteristic
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between the Ark of the Covenant and Our Lady.And there is one more that is beautiful too.
I mean, several more, but anyway, I don't knowif we have the time. We already have the cameras
here saying, no, stop, we have to go to a pause.But there is another one that, okay, the Ark
of the Covenant is the bearer of the Covenant.And so everything that symbolizes the Covenant
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of God with Israel... That was the Ark. AndOur Lady also contains the complete fulfillment
of all the Covenants, the last and the mosteverlasting Covenant, which is the coming of
Our Lord. Because She is the Ark, She was theMother. Because She was the one who was called
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to accomplish this Covenant between God andmankind in Herself, which was the birth of
our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the covenant,is the union between God and man, because he
was true God and true man. So he is the accomplishmentof creation. And this happened in Mary. So
she is the arch-elite of the covenant, of thenew covenant. And there is one more that is
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really, really nice. I can't stop without sayingthis because it's very important. I mean, in
the sense that it's written when the visitationhappens. The evangelist. leaves it there because
it's almost like a gentle, you know, what jokeabout it. Why? Because when the Ark was lost
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and that is actually related in the second bookof Samuel, King David goes and retrieves the
Ark and all of these and he brings the Ark tothe temple and everything else. Well, This
is beautiful because everything happens in thesame place, in the mountains of Judea, where
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our lady goes and visits her cousin. So it'sthe two, the two episodes happen on the same
place. So the two arcs cross in the same place,the old arc and the new arc with us, Mary.
So if we do not read this in context, we miss,and we miss a lot. Purso scriptura, I'm so
sorry, but what we can say, right? Unfortunately,that's what it is. What's also interesting
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in the first century Jews, they were never soloscriptura. No. They were always in context
with their teachers and everything. And we asCatholics, we continue that new Israel with
those same traditions that were good and sane.Father Willem, a new word here, production
taught us, is called infomercial. Okay. We'renot going to sell anything, but we've got just
(17:00):
for a quick pause, a quick break. where we havesome information about our daily Divine Mercy
Chaplet, which is actually growing by the thousands.If you really want to join us every day, please
listen to what Father Ryan Murphy has to say.Salve Maria. I'm Father Ryan Murphy of the
Heralds of the Gospel, and I'm delighted toextend an invitation to each and every one
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of you. In the midst of our busy lives, it'scrucial to take a moment of reflection, That's
why I would like to personally invite you tojoin us every day at 3pm for a special and
powerful devotion, the Divine Mercy Chaplet.The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a beautiful prayer
(17:47):
that embodies the boundless compassion of ourLord. It's a time to come together as a community,
regardless of where we are, and lift up our
burdens to the heart of Jesus. Imagine all aroundthe world, countless voices uniting in prayer
(18:09):
at this very hour. It's a moment of connection,of spiritual unity, and of seeking God's mercy
in a troubled world. So mark your calendars,set your alarms, and make a commitment to join
us each day at 3pm. Tune in and experience thetransformative of the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
(18:34):
Let this be a sanctuary of peace amidst thenoise of life. Thank you for being a part of
our Herald's Canada YouTube channel. Together,let's embark on this journey of faith, hope,
and mercy. I'm looking forward to praying withyou every day at 3 p.m. May God's love and
(18:56):
mercy shine upon you always. And until we meetagain. May Almighty God bless you, the Father,
and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. So we'reback in this episode about the Assumption of
Our Lady. And now that we have touched the scripturalbasis, now we have informed everybody that
this beautiful feast consists on the Assumptionof Our Lady to heaven, body, and soul. We would
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like to bring some of the early fathers of thechurch, because we are talking about biblical
sources. And besides the biblical sources thatare so amazing and so beautiful. We can see
how much the early fathers of the church basedthemselves in the scriptures, but also in the
tradition of what their ancestors had seen andwitnessed. Dr. Laius Absolutely. I think that
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one of the greatest doctors of the church isSt. John Damascene of the 8th century. Dr.
Faisal John of Damascus, he was Syrian. Dr.Laius Syrian, exactly. And he… He says clearly
that Mary was put in a tomb because as we know,we don't know if she died or she was just in
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a dormition. Nevertheless, she was surroundedby the apostles and she was put in a tomb.
And then when they went to see the tomb, shewas not there anymore. The tomb was empty.
Nothing explored. No, his witness is super important,no? Because by the eighth century, already
the whole Christendom had, what? incorporatedthis firm believed in the assumption of the
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lady, right? Of course. But it wasn't just Yeah,six, seven hundred. Right, and you have Gregory
of Tours in Gaul in France, and he's preachingthe same thing. So if it was Stuck in the East
and the West East and the West, and it wasn'tlike they were able to pick up a telephone
and call each other. So we were talking aboutsomething that was universal. the idea of denial
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of the assumption really becomes an issue onlyin the 1500s. Firmly believed and established
by Christendom. And also there is, and I thinkpeople watching are going to value this because
there is a council, the Council of Calcedon,right? And so we would like to share something
about that. I don't know, Father, Father Justin,which one would you like to pick up at this?
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Well, Halsedon is probably one of the most importantearly councils of the church. 451, right? Yeah,
451. It follows the council of Ephesus, thecouncil where Nestorius was condemned. And
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why is this so important? And this is a phrasethat comes out of Ephesus, which is that the
person of Christ is defended by a strong hedge.of Marian theology. But when you take down
the hedge of Marian theology, of the understandingof who Our Lady is, and that would be the Theotokos,
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the mother of God coming out of Ephesus, thevery person of Jesus becomes exposed. Either
he is not quite God, maybe he is all God, maybehe has some humanity, is he all human? We're
not sure. And what
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Ephesus, we have Chalcedon. And Chalcedon isfascinating because that is where we today,
our definition of the divinity of Christ, thedefinition comes from there. It comes from
there. So our definition comes from 451. Soit's a divine person and two natures. So it
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affirms that Jesus Christ is fully divine, fullyhuman, existing in two distinct natures, divine
and human. United in one person. He's not twopersons running around. He's one person. This
is very important. Without confusion, withoutchange, division, or separation. How is this
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possible? Because he's God. Anyone else, itwouldn't be possible. Well, it rejects two
extreme heresies, which unfortunately, at thattime, caused major schisms, major schisms in
the church. That is where the Assyrian Churchof the East, that's where the Armenian Church
leaves. Many of the Eastern churches held toa more quasi-Nestorian position or monocyte
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heresy, and that causes this great pain withinthe church. What's also interesting is that
in this council, it is recognized that Romeis the principal
on Santa Noble is number two. This is huge becausethis causes Alexandria to enter into schism
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because they want to be number one. We havethe Tom of Leo, right? Which is the monumental
work of defining Christology. And this is allhappening within the church. So when we wonder
if the church, things are rough now, thingswere rough then. Yes. But why we're bringing
this is very important because it was in orderto define these mysteries about our Lord Jesus
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Christ that Our Lady comes in the middle, andeven her life now is more defined and more
clarified for the future. Of course. So basically,the definition of Mary as Mother of God was
essential to understand Jesus. Without whichyou don't have anything. Exactly. If she was
just a mother of a human person that was unitedto God, she would have been The argument that
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comes out of Ephesus is fascinating. It's verynatural, which is that which mother gives birth
to a person without their soul? Exactly. That'sinsane. Does the soul come in afterwards? No.
So she is the mother of God. Because Nestoriustried the little trick of, no, she's not mother
(25:03):
of God. She is instead of. Theotokos, he wasChristotokos. No, no, she's the carrier of
Christ, the anointed one. And that gets youto the whole area that Christ is in God, he's
something less. Exactly. Arian kind of. Whatwas really, really striking now is that in
order to define more about the divine and humanperson, divine and human nature of our Lord,
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you need our lady. How can we just separateboth of them? It's impossible, right? So Jesus
will not be divine and he will not be an exception.He will not be an exception. He is really out
of common because there's nobody else in historywho is divine. But he has to be. He has to
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be. He's God. The minute that he's no longerexceptional, this is the heresy that people
have when they make, it would be more of anAryan heresy, where they make Jesus very human
and they forget the divine. which is that he'snot exceptional, he's just like everyone else.
Or they adopted his heresy where he was adoptedby God. God said, I like this man, I'm going
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to make him my son. Well, he can make anyonehis son. Of course, exactly. You know, just
for the sake of quoting, we have some Tignitiusof Antioch, we have some Ieneas of Lyon, we
also have some Justin Martyr, all of them alreadywitness and testify. that in the year 50, 60,
70, 100, 200, early Christendom had the devotionto our lady. So how can we deny that? But I
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like when some people complain, they say, well,where are all the books? You understand what
persecution was going on? We're lucky that wegot as much as we have. True, yeah. But there
are. Well, there's a lot, but we're lucky wehave. But when you start finding in caves and
catacombs, prayers to the mother of God, littlepaintings over tombs of Our Lady. This tells
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us how close the devotion to Our Lady was becausethat was how their grief, they cried out in
grief. They were asking the Queen of Martyrsto help them. They were helping the mother
of God to help them. That's one of the sumtumpresidium, holy mother of God. In the East,
the term mother of God is used almost exclusivelywhenever referring to Our Lady. I think in
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a certain sense it's also a continuation ofthe coming of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit
comes to the world. He comes to the Church.He comes to very special people that are the
beginning of the Church. He comes to Mary andthe Apostles. So also in the same way that
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the Holy Spirit comes down from heaven, theyhad to go up to heaven. So it's the continuation
of the coming of the Holy Spirit, the assumptionof Mary is the continuation, is the conclusion
of this coming of the Holy Spirit that Marywill, because of the Holy Spirit and taken
by the Holy Spirit and as spouse of the HolySpirit, she will go up to heaven. Now some
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people tend to think that this devotion, OurLady, and Doer of Nuts is just a modern invention
or a modern kind of resemblance, but actuallycomes from St. Irenaeus of Lyon. Because he
says that the disobedience of Eve, and how theywere able to define the role of Our Lady already
then, and we're talking about the year 100,more or less. He says that the disobedience
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of Eve caused a knot to happen in history. Andthe one that is the undoer of that knot is
Our Lady, the new Eve, he says. So they alreadyhad that idea, and all, so related also with
the Protestant Evangelium. Our Lady is the onlyone that could undo this knot and free us forever.
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Beautiful. Mary is by going up to heaven, shegives us the idea what's going to happen to
us. All those who are following Jesus, we'regoing to be also taken up and reunited with
Him and taking Him up to heaven because theseparation of the body and the soul is a just
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placement of original sin that is going to befixed. by the redemption of our Lord Jesus
Christ, and by this redemption, which is itshighest point. Well, just to clarify, because
since we are talking about certain Protestantpositions, how beautiful is the difference
between our Lady's assumption and certain theoriesabout the rapture that Protestants have, is
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that at a certain moment, if you get distracted,you may be not be raptured to heaven. But all
of a sudden, God comes. Sucked out of your car.Whoop! And if you were distracted, or maybe
you were sleeping and you were not paying attention,you lost the rapture. And the rapture, brother
Justin, can you explain that better than I?I'm not sure. I'm scared of misrepresenting
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your position. Because what I understand isso ridiculous that I'm worried. Firstly, I
don't find it biblical. And the quote that theyuse, this is the part that confuses me about
the rapture theology. The quote that is usedis in Matthew's gospel. The ones who are taken,
okay, they're taken, right? Good, it soundslike the rapture. Not sure where they go, but
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they're taken. But the next phrase, it says,where the birds are, the bodies are, like,
wait a minute, so they're dead? I'm not understandingthis idea. I don't understand it on many levels.
Firstly, our Lord spoke about the persecutionthat was going to happen. He didn't tell them
that they'd be hidden away in the heavens. Hetold them to flee. Yeah. You didn't tell them
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they'd be sucked up and sent somewhere else.I don't understand where the basis of it is.
It's a theology without theology. It's sortof, it's a do it yourself type thing. It's
the home depot of theology. You just buy youritems and you kind of put them together as
Lego or something. When humans try to play God,they do poorly. Do poorly. They don't do it
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good. So we're not encouraging our audienceto go now and get raptured into the rapture
But at the same time, it's very, very importantto realize that the role of Our Lady, the way
the Catholic Church teaches it, is so beautifuland at the same time places us in a completely
Christological position, right? If there areso much criticism. One thing about it was that
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after Our Lord being ascended, ascending intoheaven, after Pentecost, the Church spreading,
Our Lady begins to live with various communities,Christian communities, and she begins building
them up. One of the traditions that comes outof Ephesus, which is where she lived, was the
Stations of the Cross. She did it in Jerusalem,she brought it to Ephesus, and then from Ephesus
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it spread throughout the church, and it wasas a private devotion, but the ladies of Ephesus
would do it with her, and that became somethingof a devotion, so much so that today a Catholic
church cannot be consecrated if it does nothave Stations of the Cross inside the church.
It's essential. It's essential element of our,of our devotion. And why? Because we're walking
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with Jesus. But whose eyes are we walking with?Whose feelings are we walking with? We're walking
with our lady. Our lady's telling us how itwas like. Now are all of these instances found
in the, the passion narrative? Not exactly.Again, there's a problem. Why? Cause this is
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tradition. Of course. Exactly. The fourth mysteryof the Rosary assumption of Mary into heaven
was already part of the Rosary centuries beforethe dogma of Assumption, because it was already
a popular knowledge. Saint Dominic comes inthe 1200s and the dogma is 1950s. They've been
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celebrating Assumption, Feast of Assumptionin middle of August forever. It's almost forever.
I mean, I don't know when it began. So, I mean,how many miracles, medieval miracles, are linked
to the assumption? So to recap, Father, we havetalked about what is the assumption, where
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are the scriptural foundations, where are theearly fathers of the church, where are the
Protestant positions, and also to say, okay,how do we grow in devotion to our Lady?
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I think we should pray the Rosary, because it'sa prayer that actually, at the same time that
we say nine things to Mary, in the Hail Mary,the Father, the Holy Trinity, also of course,
in the Glory Be, we are meditating about importanttruths and foundations of our faith. that give
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us a basis of our faith, and which we assimilatewhat the Church wants to teach us. And some
things need to be meditated over and over andover, because they are so great that you will
understand them more and more and more. It'snot enough to think once. You have to think
(34:45):
many times, and the more you think, the moreyou understand, et cetera. So I think that
praying the Rosary and contemplating each mysteryand very especially the Assumption of Mary,
it will give us a tremendous union with whatthe Lord Jesus Christ wants for each one of
us and also an Assumption of each one of usat the end of times. So I want to give the
(35:10):
blessing for all of you and encourage you inthis wonderful feast of the Assumption of Mary.
to be always united with her, because wherevershe goes, we are going to go with her. The
Lord be with you. May Almighty God bless you,the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Salve Maria.
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