January 23, 2025 • 26 mins
Have you ever wondered about the biblical basis for Mary’s Immaculate Conception? Or how she fulfills her role as the New Eve in salvation history? In this episode of Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heralds of the Gospel, we dive deep into the Scriptures and Catholic tradition to explore these profound truths.
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(00:00):
There is always an issue with Our Lady. Peoplesaying that Our Lady's role is unbiblical and
also that Our Lady is not immaculate. And thetopic tonight, the Bible says Mary is immaculate.
Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
(00:27):
Brother Arthur. Salve Maria. Brother Justin.Salve Maria. Why so many Christians are saying
that the role of Our Lady is misunderstood byCatholics who are just kind of inventing something?
I don't know. We can maybe guess some reasons,but Jesus who is immaculate has to come from
an immaculate being. I think also we look atsome of the people who speak on the subject,
(00:53):
one of the earlier blessed John Donskotis, hehad a point which was pretty simplistic. He
just said, would God do it, then God did it.And his position was, God did everything in
process and in beauty. Out of that, it wouldonly make sense that he would bring his son
(01:17):
into the world through the most beautiful andmagnificent way. But today we're going to introduce
something very innovative to our audience. Werecommend actually a very interesting book
by Dr. Brandt Petre. And he's an author thatis very interesting because he says, no, in
order for us to understand the role of our lady,we need to look at her, number one, through
(01:39):
the Old Testament and number two, with Jewisheyes, because everything makes sense. In reality,
if we're going to pay attention, the New Testamentis in the junction right at that spot is where
we have to go to the early Christians and seewhat they were seeing. And now, if we're going
to understand Our Lady, we need to go to theOld Testament. And if somebody says that the
(02:03):
devotion to Our Lady is unbiblical, it's becausethey are not looking at the Old Testament properly.
And none of us, actually. That's why we havethe postcard here today. But it's very important
to realize that.
creates human beings, Adam and Eve. How doesHe create them? Immaculate. And they didn't
(02:27):
have the original sin when they were created.So therefore, it means that the intention of
God is that everyone should be immaculate. Andnot this funny idea of today that we think,
oh no, everybody's a sinner. And everybody,you know, is meant to sin, so nobody's perfect.
There's no perfection. Oh. Oh, no way. The creationis made for perfection. So it is totally normal
(02:58):
that our Lord Jesus Christ should be in Maculet.That his mother, and maybe his father also,
because that family had to be perfect becauseof the family of our Lord Jesus Christ. So
let's go back to the beginning, because if wego to Genesis, we are going to find that the
cause of the fall is in Adam. And here comesthe notion that our Lord Jesus Christ is the
(03:21):
new Adam, because He comes to restore the fallof the old. And so we're going to invite the
audience to go, let's say we have the new Adam,sorry, the old Adam and the old Eve, then we're
going to see who's the new Adam, who's the newEve, and then how our lady is immaculate and
why. What do you think? Sounds like a path.This is beautiful because actually God had
(03:45):
a plan. to have the world in Maculot. And it'snot because sin came that his plan will be
destroyed. He will redo his plan even betterthan the first time with a new Adam and a new
Eve. So is the Catholic Church inventing thefact that we call our Lord Jesus Christ the
(04:06):
new Adam? Or is something that has biblicalroots? Absolutely biblical roots because we
go back to St. Paul, right? We go back to theNew Testament writers and that reference of
Jesus being the new Adam is repeated time andtime again. From the beginning of the church,
huh? Then we have within the first century theimage of the tree which brings damnation and
(04:32):
death in Genesis being juxtapositioned againstthe cross. This image of Adam is absolutely
written throughout the New Testament. I wouldlike to quote Corinthians, here is just super
interesting, very direct and to the point says,St. Paul, the first man was from the earth,
a man of dust. And the second man is from heavenand he completely calls our Lord Jesus Christ.
(04:58):
The new Adam. Of course, of course. So if thefirst Adam fail, then had to be another Adam
that will accomplish what the first time shouldhave been. And if the first Eve. also failed,
there has to be another Eve that will do whatthe first Eve couldn't do. And in that same
(05:20):
idea of typology, as Jesus being the secondAdam was greater than the first, the second
Eve should be greater than the first. It wouldn'tmake sense any other way. So if the first Eve
was immaculate, the second cannot be not immaculate.And this is overlooked by many Catholics, right?
Because we tend not to read the Bible properly.And he says that Adam and Eve were created
(05:45):
very good. But that very good is lost in translationbecause of the fact that it's written in Hebrew.
And very good, tov meod, means holy. They werevery good, that means they were holy. So when
they were created, they were holy. And takingon Brother Justin's approach, right? I mean,
(06:09):
if the first Eve, was created holy and she representsour lady. She's a typology of our lady. Because
our lady cannot be less. Exactly. And she isfull of grace. So she's full of holiness. And
don't forget, that's really important. Thatpoint's incredibly important, but just remember
(06:29):
that when Gabriel says that to our lady, it'sbefore her. Yes. So it's outside of the function
of our Lord coming into directly coming intoher life, but To think that she was a sinner
denies the biblical basis, because she wouldnot have been full of grace if she had been
(06:51):
a sinner, because a sinner rejects God. It doesn'twork. You may want it to be, but it doesn't
make it. Or to some people think, you know,well, I am a sinner, therefore everybody has
to be a sinner. And they want to justify themselves,you know. trying to see in the other the same
thing of themselves. So everybody, you know,it's fine because we're all the same. No, if
(07:15):
you are wrong, it doesn't mean that everybody'swrong. Another point that comes up also, which
is also an argument that is used, is that inthe Magnificat, our lady says that the Lord
is her savior. That proves that she's a sinner.No, it proves that she's humble. It proves
(07:39):
that she's humble. And Christ was there to saveall people. God is still God. She's still a
creature. So, of course, God, the Lord, is goingto save her. But that saving action was very
different than it is for you and me. So we'renot the equals. We're not all the same. We're
(08:05):
very different in that sense. Jesus is Mary'ssavior and it is because of Jesus that Mary
is holy and Mary is immaculate. It's not onher own benefit in that sense. No, because
she's still a creature. I don't think anyone'sever saying that. We're not coming up with
any novel ideas. But the fact of the angel comingto her and saying what he did proves that very
(08:29):
point that she was in full communion with Godbefore the Annunciation. Going back a little
bit, right? Because the more we talk about Eve,the more we can understand our lady. And for
the Jewish tradition, Eve is not an ordinarywoman at all. Because the more we understand
Eve, the more we're going to understand therole of our lady. And the Jewish people already,
(08:51):
throughout the whole Old Testament, would beconvinced of that. I mean, she had the crucial
role of, unfortunately, yes, this fall, butalso from her offspring, the Messiah. So we
need to see that in full connection, becauseif we cut ourselves off of all the traditions
(09:11):
that existed even before the first Christians,because we're just a continuation. This is
something that God was bringing together, andwithout any fracture, any separation, right?
It was a complete move into the New Testament.Sometimes we think, oh no, there is a separation,
right? Our Lord came and then that's it, no,no. Everybody was just a continue. And you
(09:33):
see that both in the letter to the Hebrews aswell as in St. Paul's letters, that element
of the nation of Israel continuing through intothe church. So the more we have the stature
of Eve as the mother of all living and at thesame time that she's not a common woman, then
now comes the notion because in throughout thewhole New Testament and in the beginning of
(09:57):
Christianity, everyone who was an authority,everyone who was teaching the world. We call
the Fathers of the Church who are saying, Maryis the new Eve. And this is not an invention
of the Roman Church in the 1500s. No, no, no.This comes straight from the first century,
from the second century, from the third, fromthe fourth. It's totally logical because the
(10:18):
first Eve is the one that brought sin to theworld. So the second Eve, she brings what to
the world? Salvation, the Savior. brings grace.And I don't know, we would like to bring about
here some really beautiful quotations and JustinMartyr, he always says, for Eve having conceived
(10:38):
the word of the serpent brought forth disobedienceand death. You were talking, when in one of
the programs, Father, you were saying that itwas a wrong prayer to listen to, because praying
is to listen, no? When Eve was paying attentionto the serpent, what she was doing, she was
doing the wrong prayer. So here, St. JustinMartyr, here 150, he says, if having conceived
(11:04):
the word of the serpent brought forth disobedienceand death, but the Virgin Mary received faith
and joy. So obedience and life. Another pointthat's also fascinating, in the early church,
the aspect of the virgin element of Mary isthroughout all the writings. The denial. of
(11:26):
the virginality of Our Lady only comes aroundlater. And this is not even with the first
reformers. We're talking later. Because thefirst reformers were still very, let's quote
unquote, Catholic in their attitude towardsOur Lady. So when you condemn the church and
its medieval veneration of Our Lady, they'realso condemning their own founders.
(11:54):
Let's go to a little, little pause here, infomercialas we call it, with Father Ryan Murphy inviting
everyone to join us daily on the Divine MercyChaplet. And then we come back with this fascinating
topic because now we're going to connect whyMary is immaculate according to the biblical
accounts. Salve Maria, I'm Father Ryan Murphyof the Heralds of the Gospel. And I'm delighted
(12:17):
to extend an invitation to each and every oneof you. In the midst of our busy lives, It's
crucial to take a moment of reflection, of soullessend of prayer. That's why I would like to personally
invite you to join us every day at 3 p.m. fora special and powerful devotion, the Divine
(12:40):
Mercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is abeautiful prayer that embodies the boundless
compassion of our Lord. It's a time to cometogether as a community, regardless of where
we are. and lift up our intentions, our hopes,and even our burdens to the heart of Jesus.
(13:01):
Imagine all around the world countless voicesuniting in prayer at this very hour. It's a
moment of connection, of spiritual unity, andof seeking God's mercy in a troubled world.
So mark your calendars, set your alarms, andmake a commitment to join us each day at 3pm.
(13:25):
Tune in and experience the transformative powerof the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a
sanctuary of peace amidst the noise of life.Thank you for being a part of our Heralds Canada
YouTube channel. Together, let's embark on thisjourney of faith, hope, and mercy. I'm looking
(13:47):
forward to praying with you every day at 3pm.May God's love and mercy shine upon you always.
And until we meet again, may Almighty God blessyou, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
amen. The early fathers of the church talk aboutour lady as the new Eve, right? And there is
(14:09):
this beautiful quote by St. Tyranius of Lyon.He goes, he writes against heresies, right?
So he's in the second century writing aboutheresies and then he says, of Eve became like
a knot. And that stuck absolutely the wholeplan of salvation. I mean, it started the plan
(14:29):
of salvation in a sense, but lost the wholemankind. And we're still suffering the consequences.
She closed paradise. Actually, God created usto go to our home. Where is the home of every
human being? It's paradise. He created a homefor us. But sin closed the door to paradise.
(14:50):
And Eve is the one who brought sin into ourhistory, the history of mankind. And Mary is
the one who is going to open the door, bringthe Savior. The undoer of that knot. Exactly.
Yeah, she tangled, basically Eve tangled thewhole mankind into an undoable knot, only divine
forces could actually undo this knot. And thenSt. Therionios goes and says, the knot of Eve's
(15:15):
disobedience was loosened by the obedience.Mary by saying, this is a handmaid of the Lord,
be done unto me according to your will. So thisis a perfect attitude. It's obedience. Obedience,
that unlocks the knock and opens the door becauseshe wants to be obedient to the plan of God.
(15:37):
You know, going back to what we were sayingbefore the break, this element of Mary being
the perfection of Eve, we have a quote herefrom St. Cyril of Jerusalem. Death came through
a virgin Eve. It was necessary that life alsoshould come through a virgin. So again, the
(16:00):
idea that it's some form of Roman inventionfrom some ill-gotten era, this was the early
church. This is what the church believed. Thenovel is this concept of throwing dirt on our
lady. That's novel. That's un- Well, firstly,it's unchristian, but it's unbiblical. Now,
(16:23):
saying that Oled is a common person and thatshe, I mean, she doesn't have any fundamental
role in anything. It's like denying Eve as afundamental role that she had. Of course. I
can't say that.
(16:46):
because you also have to go to the words ofthe serpent. He goes, did God tell you that
you cannot eat that? And then she, instead ofsupporting what God has said, well, yes, he
told us that it's through her unbelief thatshe opened the door to the fall. I remember,
I forgot which saint said this, but this patternis the pattern that devil uses with each and
(17:09):
every one of us. To begin to doubt God, althoughGod doesn't deserve that doubt, And then from
the doubt to break with God. It's a one-sidedargument. You begin to doubt and then you break.
And then God comes to us asking us, where arewe? Where do we go? And that's the great question
(17:31):
for us. Questioning God. Instead of trying todiscover the virtue that it is, that the virtue
that exists behind his commands, you start...doubting the command and saying the command
is not good. It's not perfect. And actuallythe serpent will give Eve another command.
(17:54):
No, no, eat because you're going to be likeGod. Yeah, but that's the basis of all sin
right there. Be God, take God from his placeand remove. Again, that's a continuation of
the revolt of Lucifer. So, did not Eve boundfast through unbelief? St. Therionius says.
This did the Virgin Mary set free through faith,because when the angel tells her, right, she
(18:19):
completely believes. This is what it's called.Absolutely, it's acceptable. I am the handmaid
of the Lord, as you were saying. And then wehave the translator of the Bible, St. Jerome
says, death came through Eve, but life camethrough Mary. And the one who gives us the
Bible that we have today is Jerome. So. Yeah.And we also have St. John Chrysostom, very
(18:41):
beautiful here, he says, a maiden expelled usfrom paradise, through a maiden we find eternal
life. So you see that parallel, no, Eve knewEve, Adam knew Adam. It's so logical. Fall,
salvation. And this is Catholic tradition, theseare the roots of our faith, and the rest. is
(19:02):
unbiblical. Anything else is unbiblical. Now,there's something very important, Father, because
if you pay attention, we brought all these quotesthat come from Greek, come from Latin, come
from Syriac, they all come from the Holy Land,they come from Egypt, they come from Europe,
they come from all the four corners of earlyChristianity, showing how everybody believed
(19:24):
the same thing. And that's so important forus thinking about the continuity. It was not
necessary a communication between them. Therewere different languages, different places,
far away, no relations. But there was unity.But unity. The same thought, the same reasoning,
the same thought. If we were to go through thesongs that were made for liturgy, that have
(19:47):
Our Lady as the center of the song, for liturgy,I'm talking third, fourth, fifth century, they're
countless. Again. This was what the church believed.This is the church of Nicaea. This is the church
of Seleucus. This is the church of Ephesus.This is the church. It may not be the church
(20:08):
of Indianapolis today, but I think St. Johnwould have something to say to the church of
Indianapolis. Or Germany. Well, I mean, nowadayswe also have some things happening in Germany,
but at the same time, Martin Luther comes, Calvincomes. and some modern looters and modern calvins
as well. But yes, devotion to our lady is notonly biblical, but the immaculate conception
(20:32):
is not a dogma created in the 19th century,but actually is completely biblical. The first
Eve was immaculate. Before the sin, she wasabsolutely immaculate. And Adam also. God wanted
to confirm them in grace, right? That meansthey would not sin anymore, but they needed
to go through a test. And that comes from thesource of free will. God wanted them to make
(20:53):
a choice towards Him and love. If He made themas robots, it would have been a lot easier.
But is that love? If you make a robotic dollthat says, I love you, it will say a million
times that the battery runs out. But is thatlove? No. And that's the great crisis. God
(21:16):
made us and gave us freedom out of love, andwe can either abuse that love abuse that freedom
or embrace it. Because he wanted to create adust in his image. And in that sense, we are
like God. In that sense, because yes, we arelike God, because we are using our freedom
(21:40):
to accomplish his will, which is the perfectwill. So if Adam and Eve failed, somebody should
come that will be immaculate and will accomplishwhat God wanted in the first place. And this
is Mary. Mary comes, she's immaculate and shebecomes the mother of God. Why? Because she
(22:02):
is perfect. She's full of grace. So if the firstEve was conceived immaculate, the second Eve
cannot be less. Absolutely. Right. And perhapssome in the audience are not familiar with
this. prefigures in the Old Testament and theNew Testament. Can we maybe explain a little
bit? It's nice because God created things likethis. He puts prefigures of what He's going
(22:29):
to do in His work through saints that prefigurea greater saint. This will make it easier for
us to understand who He is because for us tounderstand God, it's so, so far away that we
could never reach it. the only way if he createsprefigures of himself. But these prefigurements
(22:50):
are multiple. For example, I'll just take asimple one, Joshua. The name Joshua and the
name Jesus are actually the same name. You know,between God save us. And what does Joshua do?
Joshua brings this unruly mass from Moses thistime and brings it into the promised land in
the same way that Jesus will have us cross theriver. through baptism, take the city of sin,
(23:20):
which is Jericho, and give us the promised land.This we can go on a long time. It's a symbol
of our lady and all of its elements inside ofit, the symbol of manna. So prefigurements
are throughout the Old Testament, throughoutthe Old Testament. And if you don't see it,
just need to look. Oh, Benedict, you used tosay, if we do not see our lady, completely
(23:47):
woven into the Old Testament is because we'renot really into the Old Testament. And for
instance, another prefigure meant that it wouldbe nice to bring about is the mana. Mana and
the Eucharist, right? That's pretty clear. Nowyou cannot say that the mana is more than the
Eucharist. So the prefigure is always less thanwhat it prefigures. Right? So let's go back
(24:10):
then to our lady. Eve fell. So that's fine.But she prefigured our lady. Can our lady fall?
For example, Joseph in the end of Genesis isa prefigurement of our Lord. He through dreams,
through his communion with God, is taken intocaptivity. He is sold for 20 pieces of silver.
(24:35):
He is upright. He later, through his gifts,are able to save Egypt, but not just that,
shape his own family through his own virtue.That's a symbol of our Lord. Joseph of Egypt
cannot be more. But he's not greater than Jesus.He has defects and the width of his action
(25:02):
is far less than that of our Lord. Our Ladyin the same way compared to Eve. And to not
acknowledge that, is really doing a disserviceto sacred scripture. And it's unbiblical because
then we can say, okay, if the first Eve wasimmaculate and neither to immaculate she lost
it, but the mother of the savior. But the premisethat I've heard said is horrific because what
(25:27):
they say, what some people say, some people,not everyone, but is that after Mary, after
our lady, gave birth to Jesus. She went on andhad a normal family and a normal life, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. You take away, we juststate like Eve would be less than Mary. Yes.
(25:48):
But in this case here, she is kind of like,if this is the closing act, she is very much
a sad version because there's nothing interestingabout it. She's a vessel that was used and
thrown away. It doesn't make sense. It doesn'tmatch anything else. And it means that the
center of Mary's life was not Jesus. Oh no,absolutely not. Yeah, Jesus, and then she continued
(26:10):
her life like, it's ridiculous. So we recommendeverybody to watch our other podcast, that
was about the assumption of our lady. Father,can we have a blessing for us to grow in faith
as well so we can read the scriptures from theheart of the church? Precisely, and to understand
things like, God wants us to understand properlyand seeing the beauty of the... being immaculate
(26:35):
in Mary, in Jesus, and in the church. The Lordbe with you. And with your spirit. May Almighty
God bless you, the Father, the Son, and theHoly Spirit. Amen. Salve Maria. Salve Maria.
Salve Maria.
There is always an issue with Our Lady. Peoplesaying that Our Lady's role is unbiblical and
also that Our Lady is not immaculate. And thetopic tonight, the Bible says Mary is immaculate.
Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
(00:27):
Brother Arthur. Salve Maria. Brother Justin.Salve Maria. Why so many Christians are saying
that the role of Our Lady is misunderstood byCatholics who are just kind of inventing something?
I don't know. We can maybe guess some reasons,but Jesus who is immaculate has to come from
an immaculate being. I think also we look atsome of the people who speak on the subject,
(00:53):
one of the earlier blessed John Donskotis, hehad a point which was pretty simplistic. He
just said, would God do it, then God did it.And his position was, God did everything in
process and in beauty. Out of that, it wouldonly make sense that he would bring his son
(01:17):
into the world through the most beautiful andmagnificent way. But today we're going to introduce
something very innovative to our audience. Werecommend actually a very interesting book
by Dr. Brandt Petre. And he's an author thatis very interesting because he says, no, in
order for us to understand the role of our lady,we need to look at her, number one, through
(01:39):
the Old Testament and number two, with Jewisheyes, because everything makes sense. In reality,
if we're going to pay attention, the New Testamentis in the junction right at that spot is where
we have to go to the early Christians and seewhat they were seeing. And now, if we're going
to understand Our Lady, we need to go to theOld Testament. And if somebody says that the
(02:03):
devotion to Our Lady is unbiblical, it's becausethey are not looking at the Old Testament properly.
And none of us, actually. That's why we havethe postcard here today. But it's very important
to realize that.
creates human beings, Adam and Eve. How doesHe create them? Immaculate. And they didn't
(02:27):
have the original sin when they were created.So therefore, it means that the intention of
God is that everyone should be immaculate. Andnot this funny idea of today that we think,
oh no, everybody's a sinner. And everybody,you know, is meant to sin, so nobody's perfect.
There's no perfection. Oh. Oh, no way. The creationis made for perfection. So it is totally normal
(02:58):
that our Lord Jesus Christ should be in Maculet.That his mother, and maybe his father also,
because that family had to be perfect becauseof the family of our Lord Jesus Christ. So
let's go back to the beginning, because if wego to Genesis, we are going to find that the
cause of the fall is in Adam. And here comesthe notion that our Lord Jesus Christ is the
(03:21):
new Adam, because He comes to restore the fallof the old. And so we're going to invite the
audience to go, let's say we have the new Adam,sorry, the old Adam and the old Eve, then we're
going to see who's the new Adam, who's the newEve, and then how our lady is immaculate and
why. What do you think? Sounds like a path.This is beautiful because actually God had
(03:45):
a plan. to have the world in Maculot. And it'snot because sin came that his plan will be
destroyed. He will redo his plan even betterthan the first time with a new Adam and a new
Eve. So is the Catholic Church inventing thefact that we call our Lord Jesus Christ the
(04:06):
new Adam? Or is something that has biblicalroots? Absolutely biblical roots because we
go back to St. Paul, right? We go back to theNew Testament writers and that reference of
Jesus being the new Adam is repeated time andtime again. From the beginning of the church,
huh? Then we have within the first century theimage of the tree which brings damnation and
(04:32):
death in Genesis being juxtapositioned againstthe cross. This image of Adam is absolutely
written throughout the New Testament. I wouldlike to quote Corinthians, here is just super
interesting, very direct and to the point says,St. Paul, the first man was from the earth,
a man of dust. And the second man is from heavenand he completely calls our Lord Jesus Christ.
(04:58):
The new Adam. Of course, of course. So if thefirst Adam fail, then had to be another Adam
that will accomplish what the first time shouldhave been. And if the first Eve. also failed,
there has to be another Eve that will do whatthe first Eve couldn't do. And in that same
(05:20):
idea of typology, as Jesus being the secondAdam was greater than the first, the second
Eve should be greater than the first. It wouldn'tmake sense any other way. So if the first Eve
was immaculate, the second cannot be not immaculate.And this is overlooked by many Catholics, right?
Because we tend not to read the Bible properly.And he says that Adam and Eve were created
(05:45):
very good. But that very good is lost in translationbecause of the fact that it's written in Hebrew.
And very good, tov meod, means holy. They werevery good, that means they were holy. So when
they were created, they were holy. And takingon Brother Justin's approach, right? I mean,
(06:09):
if the first Eve, was created holy and she representsour lady. She's a typology of our lady. Because
our lady cannot be less. Exactly. And she isfull of grace. So she's full of holiness. And
don't forget, that's really important. Thatpoint's incredibly important, but just remember
(06:29):
that when Gabriel says that to our lady, it'sbefore her. Yes. So it's outside of the function
of our Lord coming into directly coming intoher life, but To think that she was a sinner
denies the biblical basis, because she wouldnot have been full of grace if she had been
(06:51):
a sinner, because a sinner rejects God. It doesn'twork. You may want it to be, but it doesn't
make it. Or to some people think, you know,well, I am a sinner, therefore everybody has
to be a sinner. And they want to justify themselves,you know. trying to see in the other the same
thing of themselves. So everybody, you know,it's fine because we're all the same. No, if
(07:15):
you are wrong, it doesn't mean that everybody'swrong. Another point that comes up also, which
is also an argument that is used, is that inthe Magnificat, our lady says that the Lord
is her savior. That proves that she's a sinner.No, it proves that she's humble. It proves
(07:39):
that she's humble. And Christ was there to saveall people. God is still God. She's still a
creature. So, of course, God, the Lord, is goingto save her. But that saving action was very
different than it is for you and me. So we'renot the equals. We're not all the same. We're
(08:05):
very different in that sense. Jesus is Mary'ssavior and it is because of Jesus that Mary
is holy and Mary is immaculate. It's not onher own benefit in that sense. No, because
she's still a creature. I don't think anyone'sever saying that. We're not coming up with
any novel ideas. But the fact of the angel comingto her and saying what he did proves that very
(08:29):
point that she was in full communion with Godbefore the Annunciation. Going back a little
bit, right? Because the more we talk about Eve,the more we can understand our lady. And for
the Jewish tradition, Eve is not an ordinarywoman at all. Because the more we understand
Eve, the more we're going to understand therole of our lady. And the Jewish people already,
(08:51):
throughout the whole Old Testament, would beconvinced of that. I mean, she had the crucial
role of, unfortunately, yes, this fall, butalso from her offspring, the Messiah. So we
need to see that in full connection, becauseif we cut ourselves off of all the traditions
(09:11):
that existed even before the first Christians,because we're just a continuation. This is
something that God was bringing together, andwithout any fracture, any separation, right?
It was a complete move into the New Testament.Sometimes we think, oh no, there is a separation,
right? Our Lord came and then that's it, no,no. Everybody was just a continue. And you
(09:33):
see that both in the letter to the Hebrews aswell as in St. Paul's letters, that element
of the nation of Israel continuing through intothe church. So the more we have the stature
of Eve as the mother of all living and at thesame time that she's not a common woman, then
now comes the notion because in throughout thewhole New Testament and in the beginning of
(09:57):
Christianity, everyone who was an authority,everyone who was teaching the world. We call
the Fathers of the Church who are saying, Maryis the new Eve. And this is not an invention
of the Roman Church in the 1500s. No, no, no.This comes straight from the first century,
from the second century, from the third, fromthe fourth. It's totally logical because the
(10:18):
first Eve is the one that brought sin to theworld. So the second Eve, she brings what to
the world? Salvation, the Savior. brings grace.And I don't know, we would like to bring about
here some really beautiful quotations and JustinMartyr, he always says, for Eve having conceived
(10:38):
the word of the serpent brought forth disobedienceand death. You were talking, when in one of
the programs, Father, you were saying that itwas a wrong prayer to listen to, because praying
is to listen, no? When Eve was paying attentionto the serpent, what she was doing, she was
doing the wrong prayer. So here, St. JustinMartyr, here 150, he says, if having conceived
(11:04):
the word of the serpent brought forth disobedienceand death, but the Virgin Mary received faith
and joy. So obedience and life. Another pointthat's also fascinating, in the early church,
the aspect of the virgin element of Mary isthroughout all the writings. The denial. of
(11:26):
the virginality of Our Lady only comes aroundlater. And this is not even with the first
reformers. We're talking later. Because thefirst reformers were still very, let's quote
unquote, Catholic in their attitude towardsOur Lady. So when you condemn the church and
its medieval veneration of Our Lady, they'realso condemning their own founders.
(11:54):
Let's go to a little, little pause here, infomercialas we call it, with Father Ryan Murphy inviting
everyone to join us daily on the Divine MercyChaplet. And then we come back with this fascinating
topic because now we're going to connect whyMary is immaculate according to the biblical
accounts. Salve Maria, I'm Father Ryan Murphyof the Heralds of the Gospel. And I'm delighted
(12:17):
to extend an invitation to each and every oneof you. In the midst of our busy lives, It's
crucial to take a moment of reflection, of soullessend of prayer. That's why I would like to personally
invite you to join us every day at 3 p.m. fora special and powerful devotion, the Divine
(12:40):
Mercy Chaplet. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is abeautiful prayer that embodies the boundless
compassion of our Lord. It's a time to cometogether as a community, regardless of where
we are. and lift up our intentions, our hopes,and even our burdens to the heart of Jesus.
(13:01):
Imagine all around the world countless voicesuniting in prayer at this very hour. It's a
moment of connection, of spiritual unity, andof seeking God's mercy in a troubled world.
So mark your calendars, set your alarms, andmake a commitment to join us each day at 3pm.
(13:25):
Tune in and experience the transformative powerof the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Let this be a
sanctuary of peace amidst the noise of life.Thank you for being a part of our Heralds Canada
YouTube channel. Together, let's embark on thisjourney of faith, hope, and mercy. I'm looking
(13:47):
forward to praying with you every day at 3pm.May God's love and mercy shine upon you always.
And until we meet again, may Almighty God blessyou, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
amen. The early fathers of the church talk aboutour lady as the new Eve, right? And there is
(14:09):
this beautiful quote by St. Tyranius of Lyon.He goes, he writes against heresies, right?
So he's in the second century writing aboutheresies and then he says, of Eve became like
a knot. And that stuck absolutely the wholeplan of salvation. I mean, it started the plan
(14:29):
of salvation in a sense, but lost the wholemankind. And we're still suffering the consequences.
She closed paradise. Actually, God created usto go to our home. Where is the home of every
human being? It's paradise. He created a homefor us. But sin closed the door to paradise.
(14:50):
And Eve is the one who brought sin into ourhistory, the history of mankind. And Mary is
the one who is going to open the door, bringthe Savior. The undoer of that knot. Exactly.
Yeah, she tangled, basically Eve tangled thewhole mankind into an undoable knot, only divine
forces could actually undo this knot. And thenSt. Therionios goes and says, the knot of Eve's
(15:15):
disobedience was loosened by the obedience.Mary by saying, this is a handmaid of the Lord,
be done unto me according to your will. So thisis a perfect attitude. It's obedience. Obedience,
that unlocks the knock and opens the door becauseshe wants to be obedient to the plan of God.
(15:37):
You know, going back to what we were sayingbefore the break, this element of Mary being
the perfection of Eve, we have a quote herefrom St. Cyril of Jerusalem. Death came through
a virgin Eve. It was necessary that life alsoshould come through a virgin. So again, the
(16:00):
idea that it's some form of Roman inventionfrom some ill-gotten era, this was the early
church. This is what the church believed. Thenovel is this concept of throwing dirt on our
lady. That's novel. That's un- Well, firstly,it's unchristian, but it's unbiblical. Now,
(16:23):
saying that Oled is a common person and thatshe, I mean, she doesn't have any fundamental
role in anything. It's like denying Eve as afundamental role that she had. Of course. I
can't say that.
(16:46):
because you also have to go to the words ofthe serpent. He goes, did God tell you that
you cannot eat that? And then she, instead ofsupporting what God has said, well, yes, he
told us that it's through her unbelief thatshe opened the door to the fall. I remember,
I forgot which saint said this, but this patternis the pattern that devil uses with each and
(17:09):
every one of us. To begin to doubt God, althoughGod doesn't deserve that doubt, And then from
the doubt to break with God. It's a one-sidedargument. You begin to doubt and then you break.
And then God comes to us asking us, where arewe? Where do we go? And that's the great question
(17:31):
for us. Questioning God. Instead of trying todiscover the virtue that it is, that the virtue
that exists behind his commands, you start...doubting the command and saying the command
is not good. It's not perfect. And actuallythe serpent will give Eve another command.
(17:54):
No, no, eat because you're going to be likeGod. Yeah, but that's the basis of all sin
right there. Be God, take God from his placeand remove. Again, that's a continuation of
the revolt of Lucifer. So, did not Eve boundfast through unbelief? St. Therionius says.
This did the Virgin Mary set free through faith,because when the angel tells her, right, she
(18:19):
completely believes. This is what it's called.Absolutely, it's acceptable. I am the handmaid
of the Lord, as you were saying. And then wehave the translator of the Bible, St. Jerome
says, death came through Eve, but life camethrough Mary. And the one who gives us the
Bible that we have today is Jerome. So. Yeah.And we also have St. John Chrysostom, very
(18:41):
beautiful here, he says, a maiden expelled usfrom paradise, through a maiden we find eternal
life. So you see that parallel, no, Eve knewEve, Adam knew Adam. It's so logical. Fall,
salvation. And this is Catholic tradition, theseare the roots of our faith, and the rest. is
(19:02):
unbiblical. Anything else is unbiblical. Now,there's something very important, Father, because
if you pay attention, we brought all these quotesthat come from Greek, come from Latin, come
from Syriac, they all come from the Holy Land,they come from Egypt, they come from Europe,
they come from all the four corners of earlyChristianity, showing how everybody believed
(19:24):
the same thing. And that's so important forus thinking about the continuity. It was not
necessary a communication between them. Therewere different languages, different places,
far away, no relations. But there was unity.But unity. The same thought, the same reasoning,
the same thought. If we were to go through thesongs that were made for liturgy, that have
(19:47):
Our Lady as the center of the song, for liturgy,I'm talking third, fourth, fifth century, they're
countless. Again. This was what the church believed.This is the church of Nicaea. This is the church
of Seleucus. This is the church of Ephesus.This is the church. It may not be the church
(20:08):
of Indianapolis today, but I think St. Johnwould have something to say to the church of
Indianapolis. Or Germany. Well, I mean, nowadayswe also have some things happening in Germany,
but at the same time, Martin Luther comes, Calvincomes. and some modern looters and modern calvins
as well. But yes, devotion to our lady is notonly biblical, but the immaculate conception
(20:32):
is not a dogma created in the 19th century,but actually is completely biblical. The first
Eve was immaculate. Before the sin, she wasabsolutely immaculate. And Adam also. God wanted
to confirm them in grace, right? That meansthey would not sin anymore, but they needed
to go through a test. And that comes from thesource of free will. God wanted them to make
(20:53):
a choice towards Him and love. If He made themas robots, it would have been a lot easier.
But is that love? If you make a robotic dollthat says, I love you, it will say a million
times that the battery runs out. But is thatlove? No. And that's the great crisis. God
(21:16):
made us and gave us freedom out of love, andwe can either abuse that love abuse that freedom
or embrace it. Because he wanted to create adust in his image. And in that sense, we are
like God. In that sense, because yes, we arelike God, because we are using our freedom
(21:40):
to accomplish his will, which is the perfectwill. So if Adam and Eve failed, somebody should
come that will be immaculate and will accomplishwhat God wanted in the first place. And this
is Mary. Mary comes, she's immaculate and shebecomes the mother of God. Why? Because she
(22:02):
is perfect. She's full of grace. So if the firstEve was conceived immaculate, the second Eve
cannot be less. Absolutely. Right. And perhapssome in the audience are not familiar with
this. prefigures in the Old Testament and theNew Testament. Can we maybe explain a little
bit? It's nice because God created things likethis. He puts prefigures of what He's going
(22:29):
to do in His work through saints that prefigurea greater saint. This will make it easier for
us to understand who He is because for us tounderstand God, it's so, so far away that we
could never reach it. the only way if he createsprefigures of himself. But these prefigurements
(22:50):
are multiple. For example, I'll just take asimple one, Joshua. The name Joshua and the
name Jesus are actually the same name. You know,between God save us. And what does Joshua do?
Joshua brings this unruly mass from Moses thistime and brings it into the promised land in
the same way that Jesus will have us cross theriver. through baptism, take the city of sin,
(23:20):
which is Jericho, and give us the promised land.This we can go on a long time. It's a symbol
of our lady and all of its elements inside ofit, the symbol of manna. So prefigurements
are throughout the Old Testament, throughoutthe Old Testament. And if you don't see it,
just need to look. Oh, Benedict, you used tosay, if we do not see our lady, completely
(23:47):
woven into the Old Testament is because we'renot really into the Old Testament. And for
instance, another prefigure meant that it wouldbe nice to bring about is the mana. Mana and
the Eucharist, right? That's pretty clear. Nowyou cannot say that the mana is more than the
Eucharist. So the prefigure is always less thanwhat it prefigures. Right? So let's go back
(24:10):
then to our lady. Eve fell. So that's fine.But she prefigured our lady. Can our lady fall?
For example, Joseph in the end of Genesis isa prefigurement of our Lord. He through dreams,
through his communion with God, is taken intocaptivity. He is sold for 20 pieces of silver.
(24:35):
He is upright. He later, through his gifts,are able to save Egypt, but not just that,
shape his own family through his own virtue.That's a symbol of our Lord. Joseph of Egypt
cannot be more. But he's not greater than Jesus.He has defects and the width of his action
(25:02):
is far less than that of our Lord. Our Ladyin the same way compared to Eve. And to not
acknowledge that, is really doing a disserviceto sacred scripture. And it's unbiblical because
then we can say, okay, if the first Eve wasimmaculate and neither to immaculate she lost
it, but the mother of the savior. But the premisethat I've heard said is horrific because what
(25:27):
they say, what some people say, some people,not everyone, but is that after Mary, after
our lady, gave birth to Jesus. She went on andhad a normal family and a normal life, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. You take away, we juststate like Eve would be less than Mary. Yes.
(25:48):
But in this case here, she is kind of like,if this is the closing act, she is very much
a sad version because there's nothing interestingabout it. She's a vessel that was used and
thrown away. It doesn't make sense. It doesn'tmatch anything else. And it means that the
center of Mary's life was not Jesus. Oh no,absolutely not. Yeah, Jesus, and then she continued
(26:10):
her life like, it's ridiculous. So we recommendeverybody to watch our other podcast, that
was about the assumption of our lady. Father,can we have a blessing for us to grow in faith
as well so we can read the scriptures from theheart of the church? Precisely, and to understand
things like, God wants us to understand properlyand seeing the beauty of the... being immaculate
(26:35):
in Mary, in Jesus, and in the church. The Lordbe with you. And with your spirit. May Almighty
God bless you, the Father, the Son, and theHoly Spirit. Amen. Salve Maria. Salve Maria.
Salve Maria.
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