January 28, 2025 • 27 mins
Co-Redemptrix: a title that has sparked centuries of debate. While Mary isn't equal to Jesus, her unique cooperation in God's plan goes deeper than most realize. This episode reveals the profound mystery of how one woman's "yes" changed humanity's destiny forever. From ancient prophecies to forgotten Jewish traditions, discover why the early Church saw Mary as more than just Jesus' mother. What did they know that we might have forgotten?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Sometimes devotion to our lady is a very polemictopic and we all want to know where our lady
is in the Bible. So the program today is goingto touch why she is co-redeemer of mankind.
Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
(00:23):
So, Salve Maria, Fr. Arthur. Salve Maria. Fr.Justin, Salve Maria. Salve Maria. So, we are
talking about Mary as a core redeemer of mankind.And for many people, of course, it sounds almost
like a blasphemy, like we're putting aside ourLord Jesus Christ. I think we should start
by St. Paul, no? In the first letter to theCorinthians, I mean, he puts it very clearly
that he himself is working for the salvationof the others. So he's called Redeemer too?
(00:51):
No, no, he's the Redeemer because he is working.Of course not. Of course St. Paul understands
that Jesus is the Redeemer and we are cooperating.We are participating, we are helping. And this
is what God wants of each one of us. And ofcourse in different degrees. So now we're going
(01:12):
to see in which degree Mary cooperates withJesus in the redemption. of the world. The
question of cooperating is throughout the OldTestament, if we were to go to Genesis, we
have God who institutes Adam, the man, and thenputs him in a position where he is master of
(01:32):
all creation. He didn't create anything. Okay,let's be very clear about that. Created nothing.
But he's put by God to be. in a sense, it'screator. He's giving its name. And gives the
names to the animals. And directs them to whatthey're going to do. So in a sense, again,
I'll call to another passage. And this one,we go to Exodus, in which we look at Moses.
(01:57):
God is speaking to Moses, and God tells Moses,I will make you as a God, and Aaron will be
your prophet. That's blasphemous. That's blasphemous,hallelujah. But it proves that God, has a sense
of humor, but he's saying that, saying thatthat's what his position will be. So the idea
that anyone that could somehow shadow God isblasphemy is ridiculous. Just the fact that
(02:24):
Jesus wanted to have a mother to come to theworld, it means that he wanted somebody to
cooperate with him to come to the world. Butdon't forget, the angel is sent by God to ask
her permission. That is, ultimate cooperation.God is capable of all things. He is all powerful.
(02:44):
He could have popped onto the earth as a manof 30 years and just walked on in and then
convinced everyone that he, cause he's God,that he belonged there the whole time, made
a backstory for himself or the snap of a fingerand have done everything else without any need
of a family or a mother or any of that troublingthings. No, but he desired it. And we find
(03:08):
that because we find that in Luke's gospel.That whole few chapters explains that need.
The Jewish people who have never understoodthe fact that he would have just appeared from
the desert came, appeared, walked, and no, Imean, we need to have the mother, you know,
(03:29):
the mother who is the queen, the queen motheris such an authority for the Israelites. Because
God- invites us to be like Him. If we cannotcooperate with Him, it means that we are going
to leave Him alone. Okay, you do it, and wedon't have anything to do with redemption.
I think also there's a problem that many peoplehave, which is that they imagine the whole
(03:56):
story of salvation as an individual in never,in which it was God and me, or God with you.
We fail to see that God is constantly tryingto bring groups. He has peoples, he has tribes,
he has church, he establishes a church, he doesn'testablish a group of individuals. He gathers
(04:20):
individuals together as a college. It's alwayssomething like that. It's never just individuals.
Paul, in a sense, is an individual, but whatdoes he do with Paul? He quickly brings the
church to Paul and have him introduced intothe church. He's not independent. So that concept
that we're just this sort of independent, freeagent of sorts is not biblical. It's wonderful
(04:45):
how our Lord Jesus Christ, you know, He is love.So love means to bring others to Him. We look
at, for example, some of the quotes that weget from St. Louis de Montfort, St. Louis de
Montfort, the great Marian theologian, and hesays things like, God made Mary as His own
paradise. It was a world for God. So in a sense,Mary not only participates in, but she is an
(05:11):
element within God's plan. So it isn't by chance.It's beautiful because God is really the paradise.
I mean, paradise, what is paradise? Paradiseis God. He is paradise. But he wants to have
a paradise for him, which is Mary and us inunion with Mary and the saints. At this point,
(05:34):
I'm sure that some people who belong probablyto some Protestant denominations must be already
saying that we are assuming things. These Catholicsadd things to the Bible that eventually we
are inventing a new religion. But it would bevery, very interesting to bring, for instance,
the early church fathers and how they speakas our lady has been the core redemptor. But
(06:01):
St. Aaron has this point about Our Lady, herefers to her as the new Eve. Married by her
obedience became the cause of salvation forherself and for the whole human race. See,
this is a problem that a lot of people have.They have this idea that we look at Our Lady.
It's always this question of projection. Weknow that we don't believe that Our Lady is
(06:25):
a creature. That we believe that she's God.That's what they project upon us, which We
accept, of course, she's a creature, but she'sparticularly loved by God, so much so that
God himself removed original sin from. Someof our neighbors, it seems that, you know,
(06:45):
since Martin Luther just went and then basicallyposted all these 95 theses of his and everything
else, and they are an affirmation of things.So the attribute to Catholics that we also
do empty affirmations, right? But in reality,we have here. Sanfrem, the Syrian, we have
Sanambrose, and they all say the same, thatour lady is the key of heaven. And this is
(07:08):
not a new idea. This is something that comes,is completely based in the early fathers of
the church, the ones that were connected tothe apostles. And then they say, okay, our
lady is the key of heaven. Because the gatesof heaven were locked. Exactly. And you needed
our lady and her fiat to unlock. those doorsand only a mother can do. Because we've seen
(07:34):
Adam and Eve had locked. Locked and broke. Brokethe key. And Mary comes and opens. And there
is nothing more traditional in Judaism thanthe figure of the queen mother because she
reigns with the king. The queen was not thewife of the king. The Queen is the mother.
(07:57):
And so she has that phenomenal power of intercessionand of participation in the ruling of the kingdom.
So it's extra-biblical. If you doubt this, wejust go back to Chronicles and to Second Book
Kings, in which we see two episodes. We haveone episode with David, when Bathsheba comes
to him, making sure that Solomon would not beskipped, because there was a rumor going around
(08:21):
he was gonna be skipped. He comes in. She isthe queen. She prostrates herself in front
of David, and David allows her to rise and tohear her request. Then we go a few years, we
have Solomon as king, and she comes in, doesnot prostrate, and Solomon calls for a throne
to be brought, to be put beside her. Very differentrelationship. That's the queen mother. Beautiful.
(08:47):
She's cool reigning, cool queen. And she wouldhave all of that role, of that wisdom and of
that power, and that she would intercede andshe would help those people in need. So incredibly
important. So of course we have to put it veryclearly that Jesus is the Redeemer. There's
(09:08):
no doubt about it. Nobody's saying anything.And Our Lady was redeemed by our Lord Jesus.
Of course. Because the event of the crucifixionwas such an amazing event that it marks time.
In a sense, it moves outwards in which at thatpoint of the crucifixion, all of the cosmic
(09:28):
element was redeemed at once. Mary was redeemedbefore her conception, and the last person
was redeemed. Everyone was redeemed. So shewas redeemed in the highest way possible because
she was exempt from original sin before. Butalso she could say, as she says in the Magnificat,
(09:50):
that God is her Savior. She's not lying, butthat doesn't infer that she's a sinner. No.
And people like to say that, well, she saysthat she's a sinner. Well, firstly, we could
say that's ultimate humility, but also it doesn'tinfer that she is a sinner, that she offended
God, that she pushed God away. Because again,we go to the Annunciation and we see that what
(10:13):
she says. Right, Angel Gabriel says, full ofgrace. She was redeemed in such a way that
she has no sin. No mark of it. We are redeemedin another way, because we have the sin, and
Jesus comes and wipes out the sin. But in Mary,no, she doesn't have the sin. Why? Because
she had a role, that was just very high. Sowe just touched the early fathers, we just
(10:39):
touched on with the month, or we touch the Proto-evangeliumas well. Or maybe, But just in a little explanation
on the Protoevangelium, because that's alsopart of the biblical roots of the ocean tower
later, right? The Protoevangelium has this elementto it, which is fascinating. We have the sin,
and immediately God punishes the serpent andgives the prophecy in which, through a woman,
(11:05):
a man will come who will crush the head of theserpent. And this is instrumental. This is
essential. to the salvation of the world. Soif we want to understand revelation, if we
want to understand the gospels, we have to understandGenesis. And the lack of understanding of those
first chapters of Genesis, of the creation ofthe world, what have you, is where a lot of
(11:29):
our heresies come from. And many, many commentators,many saints have said that the very source
of heresy is a poor understanding of scripture.We go for a short infomercial and we come back
with Saint Louis de Montfort again with SaintMaximilien Colbe and all the implications of
why Our Lady is co-redeemer of mankind.
(13:44):
So welcome back to this episode. We are heretalking about our latest core, redemptrix of
mankind, the one that participates in the redemptionof our Lord Jesus Christ, of course. And we
have opinions by popes, opinions by saints,and also by phenomenal martyrs like Saint Maximilian
(14:04):
Kolbe. So I don't know, Father, Brother Justin,maybe we'll start with Saint Maximilian, because
he is amazing when he comes to talk about devotionto our Lord. Absolutely. St. Maximilian Kobe
is the knight of the Immaculata, right? Andwe were talking about him a few weeks ago with
Akita. So Maximilian Kobe, he says somethingvery beautiful. She says, the Immaculata, as
(14:29):
the mother of Jesus, our Redeemer, took themost perfect part in this redemption by consenting
to his sacrifice. So her cooperation is uniquebecause of her unparalleled union with Christ.
And that's an interesting point because thequestion of intention is so important. St.
(14:50):
Louis Monfort says that our Lady received moremerit by opening a door handle in Nazareth
than St. Lawrence did being burnt on the grill.So we have to consider in that paradigm. And
how important for those doing the consecrationto our Lady, for instance, those who really
want to... row in the ocean to our lady. St.Louis de Montfort has something beautiful here,
(15:13):
Father, I'm gonna allow me to quote. He says,he describes that God willed to begin his redemption
through our lady. So, I mean, this is very important,no? It is not that, of course, our Lord, again,
as you were saying, He is the Redeemer, withcapital letters. Yeah, and Louis de Montfort
also says that Mary was made in the mold ofGod. That's impressive. Full of grace, huh.
(15:41):
But you have also a pope, right, Father? Yes,Benedict XV. Not the 16th, the 15th. 15th,
who comes after St. Pius X. He was very, verymuch in favor, and he has a letter called Modum
Probaturum, from 1917, in which he says thatMary surrender her mother's rights. Wow. Surrender
(16:05):
her rights in order to allow her son to be...Does this sound like a sinner, someone who's
rejecting God, as some people say? No. No, she'sin the most awesome and most radical way, subjecting
herself to God's will. Exactly. So her rightis number one of a mother on the Son, she surrenders
(16:30):
for the salvation of mankind. And then he saysthat she… She immolated her son so that it
can be rightly said that she, together withChrist, has redeemed the human race. Together
with Christ, she participated in the highestway possible in the redemption, being the mother.
(16:56):
She participates in this redemption, offeringher son to us. So this is what we do at Mass.
his son and Mary also offering her son becauseJesus is the son of God and the son of Mary.
(17:17):
So it's quite belong to her and she offers thisfor us. I mean, nobody can do this, not even
Saint Joseph because actually he was the fatherbut through Mary. And even Father St. Paul
the 10th, he has here also another quote verybeautifully. He says, he refers to Mary as
the dispenser of all graces. acquired by Christin redemption. So she also has that role. And
(17:43):
Pope John Paul II also calls her co-redemptrixseveral occasions. Of course, there cannot
be this confusion, right? That people tend lateron to kind of, you know, subconsciously maybe
to substitute, right? Our Lord, and then wepay more attention to our lady, but it cannot
be, you know. Understanding Mary, we understandJesus. I remember hearing this thing, we should
(18:06):
love our lady as much as Jesus loved Mary. Andif we acquire that, good luck. But who's not
going to say, or better, who is going to saythat our Lord is not the Redeemer? Of course
He's the Redeemer. And Paul again, you know,he said that with our suffering, we accomplish,
(18:28):
we bring to the fullness of the redemption.That makes us co-redemptors too. Yeah, exactly.
But He's not replacing Christ. No, the wholemission of the church is to participate in
the redemption of Jesus Christ and to bringredemption to the others. Like, what are humans?
Humans are made in the image and likeness ofGod. We're not replacing God. Precisely. So
(18:51):
when Jesus says, follow me, it means that wehave to follow him in his mission of redemption.
So he's inviting us to be participants of thisredemption. Well, but there are some objections.
So maybe would you like to touch on those? BecauseI'm sure many people in the audience have listened
(19:13):
to this. And one of them, okay, by saying corerhythm tricks, does it diminish Christ's role
as soul redeemer? So this is a problem thatmany people have. By imitating the Lord Jesus
Christ, we also become redeemers and we enhance,we show that the Lord Jesus Christ can act
(19:34):
directly and can act indirectly. Well, St. LucieMonfort also says that our ladies' actions
derive their merit from Christ's sacrifice.She is the channel through which Christ's redemption
flows, never acting independently. And that'sreally important. She never acts independently.
(19:57):
She's not a separate person. She's one with.It's like what St. John Newt said, it's the
Heart of Christ, Heart of Jesus, and the Heartof Mary. And they're connected. You can't separate
the two. So it's really important because theidea of like, oh no, if I have devotion to
Mary, then I forget Jesus. No, no, it's notpossible. She will bring you to him and he
(20:23):
will bring it to her. Well, because you're havingdevotion to something that Jesus created, which
is called Mary. So you're having devotion toJesus through Mary. How do you explain to some
people who may say, well, but the title, OurLady Call Rhythm Tricks, is not in the Bible?
(20:44):
The fact that a name is not in the Bible doesn'tmean that an idea is not in the Bible. The
idea of Conradention is in the Bible. The name,no. But you know, we have to... If we do that,
we knock down a lot of titles that we use. Theword Trinity. We can't use it. It's gone. And
(21:05):
there's many others that follow to that sameplace. St. Maximus and Colby actually underlines
that point. He says that her fiat at the Annunciationis the foundation for her participation in
redemption. The fact that God asked her permissionmade her part of the package. Yeah, different.
(21:25):
For us to unpack from the Bible, the beautifulideas that are there, and to put them in our
words and to make them understandable by everybody,but they are there. We're not inventing anything.
Again, that is what the early church did. Mm-hmm.Exactly. And all of those early works. And
(21:46):
that was from the tradition of Israel. Theyalways had their scribes who were unpacking
scripture. So this is incredibly going rightback into the foundations of faith, of Christ's
revelation, of the Father's revelation, andto separate that, to sear that, to cut that
off is to be extremely untraditional, unconnectedto the sap of the tree of which is Christ.
(22:14):
If we start reading the Bible out of context,we become unbiblical. Because the moment we
cut the context, then nothing stands in theBible. Right? Of course. The key to understand
the Old Testament is through the New Testament.We use reflection. You use typologies, right?
(22:36):
You look at the sorrowful servant in Isaiahand you find Christ. You find the person of
David and his Davidic kingship, and then wefind Christ again. We find all these reflections
back and forth, Maccabees, all of that goingback and forth, and that becomes one woven
element together. To separate it is ridiculous.We don't understand the manna if we don't understand
(23:01):
the Eucharist. We have a very Poor understandingof manna if we don't understand the Eucharist.
Because, okay, if it's not necessary, why wouldChrist have brought his three closest apostles
and shown them Elijah and Moses if it was notimportant? He's the only one who's important,
(23:21):
they're not important, why bring them? Precisely.He was bringing co-redeemers. Jesus is not
the law. He was bringing co-redeemers with him.Yeah, exactly. He was bringing co-redeemers.
Las Femines. But it's a mania, I know. I mean,in the name of Sola Scriptura, if we start
(23:41):
breaking with the context, it's just a dessert.But scripture doesn't make sense. You impoverish
the scripture completely. Our Lord constantlycalled back to scripture to help people understand.
Now, if you don't follow those... those verystrands, I don't know what you're doing. There
was an early church heresy that said that therewere two gods. There was the Old Testament
(24:06):
God and the New Testament God. Jesus was good,nice, friendly. Old Testament, the Father was
mean. So they cut it off. They didn't do anythingwith the Old Testament, only New Testament.
But obviously it's wrong. There is a differencebetween a parrot reading the scripture and
a human being reading the scripture. So we can'tjust, you know, become parents and just repeating
(24:32):
what is there and that's it. No, we have tounpack what is there and show the beauty of
Revelation. Now Father, if you permit, I wouldlike to also call here towards another aspect,
which is the devotional aspect. Because, OK,at this point, many in the audience might be
thinking, OK, but what does it mean? for mein my devotion to our lady that she's core
(24:56):
redeemer or not core redeemer. So why don'twe unpack as you say, a little bit more into
the devotional side and why this is actuallygoing to help us to love our lady even more.
As human we need the father and we need themother. So we cannot have both things in the
(25:18):
Lord Jesus Christ. Of course both are in theLord Jesus Christ, but for us humans we cannot.
understand that, you know, in one person wehave the two things, it's impossible. So Jesus
did marry for us to understand the maternalside of God, how God is also a mother. He's
so kind, so willing to help us, etc., that inMary we can see that kindness and that love
(25:46):
that exists in a mother, and therefore we canbe more trusting. God is going to help us also
as a mother. There is something that touchesa lot in the people in the poetic aspect and
even in literature and stories of mothers whomake sacrifices for their children, right?
And they are ever-present. There is this story,for instance, when some evil wife asks the
(26:12):
husband to go and bring her the heart of thehusband's mother. And this wicked person decides
to go and... assassinate his own mother andbring to this evil lady the heart And he's
bringing that and at a certain moment what reallyhappens is that he trips falls and the heart
(26:34):
falls And then a voice, right, from the heartcomes and says, my son, did you hurt yourself?
And that kind of thing, you know, moves andtouches people and is phenomenal. When we talk
about Our Lady as being called Redeemer of Mankind,I mean, looking at her contemplating Our Lord
(26:54):
in the cross, how much more we can grow in devotionto Our Lady in love for Our Lady, right? Absolutely,
absolutely. Also a very important aspect isthat we spoke about the incarnation. but also
by the cross. So Jesus is dying on the crossand who is there? The only one who was there
(27:15):
was the mother. And she was supporting Jesusin his tremendous mission of offering himself
to the father. Until nowadays in the Churchof the Holy Sepulcher, the Armenian part, actually
there is this spot that marks where our ladyand the holy women were standing looking at
(27:36):
the cross. So it's so beautiful. I mean, 2,000years later, we can even stand there. and marked,
that is marked because it was so important.And if we question our Lord's devotion to His
mother, just look in the middle of all of theanguish, all of the pain, all of the torture
He's going through, what does He do before Hegives up His Spirit? He turns to His mother
(27:58):
and gives her to His beloved disciple and likewise.That is very important for so many reasons.
Firstly, it proves that He's the only child.There were no other children to care of her.
But that shows his love and his devotion, becausewe forget here that he's God, and he still
(28:21):
wants to make sure she is taken care of. Heknows he's going to resurrect. Of course, but
that is his testament. That's the highest thingthat he wants to leave to us. So when we don't
take Mary as our mother, we are rejecting thetestament of our Lord Jesus Christ. That was
his heritage. And maybe to wrap up the episodetoday, we can go with St. Maximilian Kolbe.
(28:46):
This is something very beautiful that I justfound. He says, never be afraid, St. Maximilian
Kolbe says, never be afraid of loving the BlessedVirgin Mary too much. You can never love her
more than Jesus did. So what a piece of advicefor all of us. Beautiful thought. Not tremendous.
(29:07):
So this is a tremendous recommendation we'regoing to give not to everyone. open to Mary
because by Mary you're going to be much morecloser to Jesus than without her. So let us
give you the blessing to end up this podcast.The Lord be with you. And with your spirit.
(29:31):
And may Almighty God bless you, the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen, Amen. Salve
Maria.
Sometimes devotion to our lady is a very polemictopic and we all want to know where our lady
is in the Bible. So the program today is goingto touch why she is co-redeemer of mankind.
Welcome to Salve Maria, the podcast of the Heraldsof the Gospel.
(00:23):
So, Salve Maria, Fr. Arthur. Salve Maria. Fr.Justin, Salve Maria. Salve Maria. So, we are
talking about Mary as a core redeemer of mankind.And for many people, of course, it sounds almost
like a blasphemy, like we're putting aside ourLord Jesus Christ. I think we should start
by St. Paul, no? In the first letter to theCorinthians, I mean, he puts it very clearly
that he himself is working for the salvationof the others. So he's called Redeemer too?
(00:51):
No, no, he's the Redeemer because he is working.Of course not. Of course St. Paul understands
that Jesus is the Redeemer and we are cooperating.We are participating, we are helping. And this
is what God wants of each one of us. And ofcourse in different degrees. So now we're going
(01:12):
to see in which degree Mary cooperates withJesus in the redemption. of the world. The
question of cooperating is throughout the OldTestament, if we were to go to Genesis, we
have God who institutes Adam, the man, and thenputs him in a position where he is master of
(01:32):
all creation. He didn't create anything. Okay,let's be very clear about that. Created nothing.
But he's put by God to be. in a sense, it'screator. He's giving its name. And gives the
names to the animals. And directs them to whatthey're going to do. So in a sense, again,
I'll call to another passage. And this one,we go to Exodus, in which we look at Moses.
(01:57):
God is speaking to Moses, and God tells Moses,I will make you as a God, and Aaron will be
your prophet. That's blasphemous. That's blasphemous,hallelujah. But it proves that God, has a sense
of humor, but he's saying that, saying thatthat's what his position will be. So the idea
that anyone that could somehow shadow God isblasphemy is ridiculous. Just the fact that
(02:24):
Jesus wanted to have a mother to come to theworld, it means that he wanted somebody to
cooperate with him to come to the world. Butdon't forget, the angel is sent by God to ask
her permission. That is, ultimate cooperation.God is capable of all things. He is all powerful.
(02:44):
He could have popped onto the earth as a manof 30 years and just walked on in and then
convinced everyone that he, cause he's God,that he belonged there the whole time, made
a backstory for himself or the snap of a fingerand have done everything else without any need
of a family or a mother or any of that troublingthings. No, but he desired it. And we find
(03:08):
that because we find that in Luke's gospel.That whole few chapters explains that need.
The Jewish people who have never understoodthe fact that he would have just appeared from
the desert came, appeared, walked, and no, Imean, we need to have the mother, you know,
(03:29):
the mother who is the queen, the queen motheris such an authority for the Israelites. Because
God- invites us to be like Him. If we cannotcooperate with Him, it means that we are going
to leave Him alone. Okay, you do it, and wedon't have anything to do with redemption.
I think also there's a problem that many peoplehave, which is that they imagine the whole
(03:56):
story of salvation as an individual in never,in which it was God and me, or God with you.
We fail to see that God is constantly tryingto bring groups. He has peoples, he has tribes,
he has church, he establishes a church, he doesn'testablish a group of individuals. He gathers
(04:20):
individuals together as a college. It's alwayssomething like that. It's never just individuals.
Paul, in a sense, is an individual, but whatdoes he do with Paul? He quickly brings the
church to Paul and have him introduced intothe church. He's not independent. So that concept
that we're just this sort of independent, freeagent of sorts is not biblical. It's wonderful
(04:45):
how our Lord Jesus Christ, you know, He is love.So love means to bring others to Him. We look
at, for example, some of the quotes that weget from St. Louis de Montfort, St. Louis de
Montfort, the great Marian theologian, and hesays things like, God made Mary as His own
paradise. It was a world for God. So in a sense,Mary not only participates in, but she is an
(05:11):
element within God's plan. So it isn't by chance.It's beautiful because God is really the paradise.
I mean, paradise, what is paradise? Paradiseis God. He is paradise. But he wants to have
a paradise for him, which is Mary and us inunion with Mary and the saints. At this point,
(05:34):
I'm sure that some people who belong probablyto some Protestant denominations must be already
saying that we are assuming things. These Catholicsadd things to the Bible that eventually we
are inventing a new religion. But it would bevery, very interesting to bring, for instance,
the early church fathers and how they speakas our lady has been the core redemptor. But
(06:01):
St. Aaron has this point about Our Lady, herefers to her as the new Eve. Married by her
obedience became the cause of salvation forherself and for the whole human race. See,
this is a problem that a lot of people have.They have this idea that we look at Our Lady.
It's always this question of projection. Weknow that we don't believe that Our Lady is
(06:25):
a creature. That we believe that she's God.That's what they project upon us, which We
accept, of course, she's a creature, but she'sparticularly loved by God, so much so that
God himself removed original sin from. Someof our neighbors, it seems that, you know,
(06:45):
since Martin Luther just went and then basicallyposted all these 95 theses of his and everything
else, and they are an affirmation of things.So the attribute to Catholics that we also
do empty affirmations, right? But in reality,we have here. Sanfrem, the Syrian, we have
Sanambrose, and they all say the same, thatour lady is the key of heaven. And this is
(07:08):
not a new idea. This is something that comes,is completely based in the early fathers of
the church, the ones that were connected tothe apostles. And then they say, okay, our
lady is the key of heaven. Because the gatesof heaven were locked. Exactly. And you needed
our lady and her fiat to unlock. those doorsand only a mother can do. Because we've seen
(07:34):
Adam and Eve had locked. Locked and broke. Brokethe key. And Mary comes and opens. And there
is nothing more traditional in Judaism thanthe figure of the queen mother because she
reigns with the king. The queen was not thewife of the king. The Queen is the mother.
(07:57):
And so she has that phenomenal power of intercessionand of participation in the ruling of the kingdom.
So it's extra-biblical. If you doubt this, wejust go back to Chronicles and to Second Book
Kings, in which we see two episodes. We haveone episode with David, when Bathsheba comes
to him, making sure that Solomon would not beskipped, because there was a rumor going around
(08:21):
he was gonna be skipped. He comes in. She isthe queen. She prostrates herself in front
of David, and David allows her to rise and tohear her request. Then we go a few years, we
have Solomon as king, and she comes in, doesnot prostrate, and Solomon calls for a throne
to be brought, to be put beside her. Very differentrelationship. That's the queen mother. Beautiful.
(08:47):
She's cool reigning, cool queen. And she wouldhave all of that role, of that wisdom and of
that power, and that she would intercede andshe would help those people in need. So incredibly
important. So of course we have to put it veryclearly that Jesus is the Redeemer. There's
(09:08):
no doubt about it. Nobody's saying anything.And Our Lady was redeemed by our Lord Jesus.
Of course. Because the event of the crucifixionwas such an amazing event that it marks time.
In a sense, it moves outwards in which at thatpoint of the crucifixion, all of the cosmic
(09:28):
element was redeemed at once. Mary was redeemedbefore her conception, and the last person
was redeemed. Everyone was redeemed. So shewas redeemed in the highest way possible because
she was exempt from original sin before. Butalso she could say, as she says in the Magnificat,
(09:50):
that God is her Savior. She's not lying, butthat doesn't infer that she's a sinner. No.
And people like to say that, well, she saysthat she's a sinner. Well, firstly, we could
say that's ultimate humility, but also it doesn'tinfer that she is a sinner, that she offended
God, that she pushed God away. Because again,we go to the Annunciation and we see that what
(10:13):
she says. Right, Angel Gabriel says, full ofgrace. She was redeemed in such a way that
she has no sin. No mark of it. We are redeemedin another way, because we have the sin, and
Jesus comes and wipes out the sin. But in Mary,no, she doesn't have the sin. Why? Because
she had a role, that was just very high. Sowe just touched the early fathers, we just
(10:39):
touched on with the month, or we touch the Proto-evangeliumas well. Or maybe, But just in a little explanation
on the Protoevangelium, because that's alsopart of the biblical roots of the ocean tower
later, right? The Protoevangelium has this elementto it, which is fascinating. We have the sin,
and immediately God punishes the serpent andgives the prophecy in which, through a woman,
(11:05):
a man will come who will crush the head of theserpent. And this is instrumental. This is
essential. to the salvation of the world. Soif we want to understand revelation, if we
want to understand the gospels, we have to understandGenesis. And the lack of understanding of those
first chapters of Genesis, of the creation ofthe world, what have you, is where a lot of
(11:29):
our heresies come from. And many, many commentators,many saints have said that the very source
of heresy is a poor understanding of scripture.We go for a short infomercial and we come back
with Saint Louis de Montfort again with SaintMaximilien Colbe and all the implications of
why Our Lady is co-redeemer of mankind.
(13:44):
So welcome back to this episode. We are heretalking about our latest core, redemptrix of
mankind, the one that participates in the redemptionof our Lord Jesus Christ, of course. And we
have opinions by popes, opinions by saints,and also by phenomenal martyrs like Saint Maximilian
(14:04):
Kolbe. So I don't know, Father, Brother Justin,maybe we'll start with Saint Maximilian, because
he is amazing when he comes to talk about devotionto our Lord. Absolutely. St. Maximilian Kobe
is the knight of the Immaculata, right? Andwe were talking about him a few weeks ago with
Akita. So Maximilian Kobe, he says somethingvery beautiful. She says, the Immaculata, as
(14:29):
the mother of Jesus, our Redeemer, took themost perfect part in this redemption by consenting
to his sacrifice. So her cooperation is uniquebecause of her unparalleled union with Christ.
And that's an interesting point because thequestion of intention is so important. St.
(14:50):
Louis Monfort says that our Lady received moremerit by opening a door handle in Nazareth
than St. Lawrence did being burnt on the grill.So we have to consider in that paradigm. And
how important for those doing the consecrationto our Lady, for instance, those who really
want to... row in the ocean to our lady. St.Louis de Montfort has something beautiful here,
(15:13):
Father, I'm gonna allow me to quote. He says,he describes that God willed to begin his redemption
through our lady. So, I mean, this is very important,no? It is not that, of course, our Lord, again,
as you were saying, He is the Redeemer, withcapital letters. Yeah, and Louis de Montfort
also says that Mary was made in the mold ofGod. That's impressive. Full of grace, huh.
(15:41):
But you have also a pope, right, Father? Yes,Benedict XV. Not the 16th, the 15th. 15th,
who comes after St. Pius X. He was very, verymuch in favor, and he has a letter called Modum
Probaturum, from 1917, in which he says thatMary surrender her mother's rights. Wow. Surrender
(16:05):
her rights in order to allow her son to be...Does this sound like a sinner, someone who's
rejecting God, as some people say? No. No, she'sin the most awesome and most radical way, subjecting
herself to God's will. Exactly. So her rightis number one of a mother on the Son, she surrenders
(16:30):
for the salvation of mankind. And then he saysthat she… She immolated her son so that it
can be rightly said that she, together withChrist, has redeemed the human race. Together
with Christ, she participated in the highestway possible in the redemption, being the mother.
(16:56):
She participates in this redemption, offeringher son to us. So this is what we do at Mass.
his son and Mary also offering her son becauseJesus is the son of God and the son of Mary.
(17:17):
So it's quite belong to her and she offers thisfor us. I mean, nobody can do this, not even
Saint Joseph because actually he was the fatherbut through Mary. And even Father St. Paul
the 10th, he has here also another quote verybeautifully. He says, he refers to Mary as
the dispenser of all graces. acquired by Christin redemption. So she also has that role. And
(17:43):
Pope John Paul II also calls her co-redemptrixseveral occasions. Of course, there cannot
be this confusion, right? That people tend lateron to kind of, you know, subconsciously maybe
to substitute, right? Our Lord, and then wepay more attention to our lady, but it cannot
be, you know. Understanding Mary, we understandJesus. I remember hearing this thing, we should
(18:06):
love our lady as much as Jesus loved Mary. Andif we acquire that, good luck. But who's not
going to say, or better, who is going to saythat our Lord is not the Redeemer? Of course
He's the Redeemer. And Paul again, you know,he said that with our suffering, we accomplish,
(18:28):
we bring to the fullness of the redemption.That makes us co-redemptors too. Yeah, exactly.
But He's not replacing Christ. No, the wholemission of the church is to participate in
the redemption of Jesus Christ and to bringredemption to the others. Like, what are humans?
Humans are made in the image and likeness ofGod. We're not replacing God. Precisely. So
(18:51):
when Jesus says, follow me, it means that wehave to follow him in his mission of redemption.
So he's inviting us to be participants of thisredemption. Well, but there are some objections.
So maybe would you like to touch on those? BecauseI'm sure many people in the audience have listened
(19:13):
to this. And one of them, okay, by saying corerhythm tricks, does it diminish Christ's role
as soul redeemer? So this is a problem thatmany people have. By imitating the Lord Jesus
Christ, we also become redeemers and we enhance,we show that the Lord Jesus Christ can act
(19:34):
directly and can act indirectly. Well, St. LucieMonfort also says that our ladies' actions
derive their merit from Christ's sacrifice.She is the channel through which Christ's redemption
flows, never acting independently. And that'sreally important. She never acts independently.
(19:57):
She's not a separate person. She's one with.It's like what St. John Newt said, it's the
Heart of Christ, Heart of Jesus, and the Heartof Mary. And they're connected. You can't separate
the two. So it's really important because theidea of like, oh no, if I have devotion to
Mary, then I forget Jesus. No, no, it's notpossible. She will bring you to him and he
(20:23):
will bring it to her. Well, because you're havingdevotion to something that Jesus created, which
is called Mary. So you're having devotion toJesus through Mary. How do you explain to some
people who may say, well, but the title, OurLady Call Rhythm Tricks, is not in the Bible?
(20:44):
The fact that a name is not in the Bible doesn'tmean that an idea is not in the Bible. The
idea of Conradention is in the Bible. The name,no. But you know, we have to... If we do that,
we knock down a lot of titles that we use. Theword Trinity. We can't use it. It's gone. And
(21:05):
there's many others that follow to that sameplace. St. Maximus and Colby actually underlines
that point. He says that her fiat at the Annunciationis the foundation for her participation in
redemption. The fact that God asked her permissionmade her part of the package. Yeah, different.
(21:25):
For us to unpack from the Bible, the beautifulideas that are there, and to put them in our
words and to make them understandable by everybody,but they are there. We're not inventing anything.
Again, that is what the early church did. Mm-hmm.Exactly. And all of those early works. And
(21:46):
that was from the tradition of Israel. Theyalways had their scribes who were unpacking
scripture. So this is incredibly going rightback into the foundations of faith, of Christ's
revelation, of the Father's revelation, andto separate that, to sear that, to cut that
off is to be extremely untraditional, unconnectedto the sap of the tree of which is Christ.
(22:14):
If we start reading the Bible out of context,we become unbiblical. Because the moment we
cut the context, then nothing stands in theBible. Right? Of course. The key to understand
the Old Testament is through the New Testament.We use reflection. You use typologies, right?
(22:36):
You look at the sorrowful servant in Isaiahand you find Christ. You find the person of
David and his Davidic kingship, and then wefind Christ again. We find all these reflections
back and forth, Maccabees, all of that goingback and forth, and that becomes one woven
element together. To separate it is ridiculous.We don't understand the manna if we don't understand
(23:01):
the Eucharist. We have a very Poor understandingof manna if we don't understand the Eucharist.
Because, okay, if it's not necessary, why wouldChrist have brought his three closest apostles
and shown them Elijah and Moses if it was notimportant? He's the only one who's important,
(23:21):
they're not important, why bring them? Precisely.He was bringing co-redeemers. Jesus is not
the law. He was bringing co-redeemers with him.Yeah, exactly. He was bringing co-redeemers.
Las Femines. But it's a mania, I know. I mean,in the name of Sola Scriptura, if we start
(23:41):
breaking with the context, it's just a dessert.But scripture doesn't make sense. You impoverish
the scripture completely. Our Lord constantlycalled back to scripture to help people understand.
Now, if you don't follow those... those verystrands, I don't know what you're doing. There
was an early church heresy that said that therewere two gods. There was the Old Testament
(24:06):
God and the New Testament God. Jesus was good,nice, friendly. Old Testament, the Father was
mean. So they cut it off. They didn't do anythingwith the Old Testament, only New Testament.
But obviously it's wrong. There is a differencebetween a parrot reading the scripture and
a human being reading the scripture. So we can'tjust, you know, become parents and just repeating
(24:32):
what is there and that's it. No, we have tounpack what is there and show the beauty of
Revelation. Now Father, if you permit, I wouldlike to also call here towards another aspect,
which is the devotional aspect. Because, OK,at this point, many in the audience might be
thinking, OK, but what does it mean? for mein my devotion to our lady that she's core
(24:56):
redeemer or not core redeemer. So why don'twe unpack as you say, a little bit more into
the devotional side and why this is actuallygoing to help us to love our lady even more.
As human we need the father and we need themother. So we cannot have both things in the
(25:18):
Lord Jesus Christ. Of course both are in theLord Jesus Christ, but for us humans we cannot.
understand that, you know, in one person wehave the two things, it's impossible. So Jesus
did marry for us to understand the maternalside of God, how God is also a mother. He's
so kind, so willing to help us, etc., that inMary we can see that kindness and that love
(25:46):
that exists in a mother, and therefore we canbe more trusting. God is going to help us also
as a mother. There is something that touchesa lot in the people in the poetic aspect and
even in literature and stories of mothers whomake sacrifices for their children, right?
And they are ever-present. There is this story,for instance, when some evil wife asks the
(26:12):
husband to go and bring her the heart of thehusband's mother. And this wicked person decides
to go and... assassinate his own mother andbring to this evil lady the heart And he's
bringing that and at a certain moment what reallyhappens is that he trips falls and the heart
(26:34):
falls And then a voice, right, from the heartcomes and says, my son, did you hurt yourself?
And that kind of thing, you know, moves andtouches people and is phenomenal. When we talk
about Our Lady as being called Redeemer of Mankind,I mean, looking at her contemplating Our Lord
(26:54):
in the cross, how much more we can grow in devotionto Our Lady in love for Our Lady, right? Absolutely,
absolutely. Also a very important aspect isthat we spoke about the incarnation. but also
by the cross. So Jesus is dying on the crossand who is there? The only one who was there
(27:15):
was the mother. And she was supporting Jesusin his tremendous mission of offering himself
to the father. Until nowadays in the Churchof the Holy Sepulcher, the Armenian part, actually
there is this spot that marks where our ladyand the holy women were standing looking at
(27:36):
the cross. So it's so beautiful. I mean, 2,000years later, we can even stand there. and marked,
that is marked because it was so important.And if we question our Lord's devotion to His
mother, just look in the middle of all of theanguish, all of the pain, all of the torture
He's going through, what does He do before Hegives up His Spirit? He turns to His mother
(27:58):
and gives her to His beloved disciple and likewise.That is very important for so many reasons.
Firstly, it proves that He's the only child.There were no other children to care of her.
But that shows his love and his devotion, becausewe forget here that he's God, and he still
(28:21):
wants to make sure she is taken care of. Heknows he's going to resurrect. Of course, but
that is his testament. That's the highest thingthat he wants to leave to us. So when we don't
take Mary as our mother, we are rejecting thetestament of our Lord Jesus Christ. That was
his heritage. And maybe to wrap up the episodetoday, we can go with St. Maximilian Kolbe.
(28:46):
This is something very beautiful that I justfound. He says, never be afraid, St. Maximilian
Kolbe says, never be afraid of loving the BlessedVirgin Mary too much. You can never love her
more than Jesus did. So what a piece of advicefor all of us. Beautiful thought. Not tremendous.
(29:07):
So this is a tremendous recommendation we'regoing to give not to everyone. open to Mary
because by Mary you're going to be much morecloser to Jesus than without her. So let us
give you the blessing to end up this podcast.The Lord be with you. And with your spirit.
(29:31):
And may Almighty God bless you, the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen, Amen. Salve
Maria.
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