July 19, 2023 • 53 mins
Immerse yourself in the heartwarming tale of Evi Abeler, a woman who turned the unanticipated turns of her journey into a successful career in food photography. As she weaves her story from humble beginnings, running her personal food blog, to making impactful contributions to non-profits—her journey is a glowing testament to embracing small beginnings, nurturing connections, and seizing the fleeting opportunities life tosses our way. Tune into "Tasting the Future with Evi Abeler," to savor her captivating journey and to witness how the future of food photography is being deliciously reshaped, taking every challenge as an opportunity for growth and change.
Savory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/evi-abeler/ Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the 29th episode of The Savory Shot.
Y'all.
29 episodes, man!
If this is your first timejoining this Hot Mess Express,
allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Mica and I'myour host with the most.
(00:23):
If you've already been here fromthe beginning, or a couple episodes,
then thank you for coming back.
Welcome to the dark side.
Or I guess I should say,Welcome back to the dark side.
Yeah, that doesn't sound...
Yeah, let's just skip ahead.
Before I even start on how amazingtoday's guest is, I've got to
(00:49):
give some love and a shout out tothe last guest, Rishon Hanners.
Y'all, did you listen to that episode?
Man, if you did, give me aholler, hit me up on Insta.
Let's talk about it.
But if you have not listened to thatepisode, boo, what are you doing here?
(01:14):
Get out, go back, get off, sign off,log off, go listen to that episode.
Her advice is real y'all.
She did not come to play.
She did not.
Show up to gloss anything up for you.
So, if you are looking for somesass, you gotta go listen to it.
She is just an amazing foodstylist, and I enjoyed that episode.
(01:39):
But y'all, let's talkabout today's episode.
I know I say this every singletime, but, ooh, ooh, ooh, this
was my favorite interview.
No, really, really, I mean it this time.
This was my favorite interview.
My heart is just bursting with joy, withhappiness, because y'all, I literally
(02:00):
had one of the best conversations.
So without further ado,today's guest is Evie Abler.
Evie comes.
All the way from Germany.
She got on a plane, went vroom,flew to New York City, and
she's been there ever since.
Slayin workin as a food photographer.
(02:21):
We talked about everything.
We talked about her comin from Germany,what drew her to New York City.
We talked about her mentoringwith Focus On Women and why
that's so important to her.
I'm not gonna tell you everything becausethen, you know, what's the point of you
going to listen to the episode if I'mjust gonna give you the whole synopsis?
(02:43):
So, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnawaste any more of y'all's time.
I know you got things to do, places to go.
I think I have rolled out thered carpet for long enough.
So let's start the show.
(03:34):
I just want to start off by thanking you.
We're finally doing this.
I'm so excited.
There's been photo shoots.
There's been jury duty.
There's been me losing my voice.
Like we've gone through every catastrophethat you could think of and we are
now here and we're doing this and Ijust want to say thank you so much
(03:56):
for sticking it out and for beinghere on the show on The Savory Shot.
Evi (04:01):
Totally.
Thank you.
Mica.
Thank you.
I'm really excited
Mica (04:04):
I just want to dive right in.
I've been jonesing for thisinterview, and I'm like,
I'm ready, I'm ready, we were talkingabout earlier before I hit the record
button, we were talking about cityliving, rural living, country living.
You're in New York.
I'm in Austin.
But your childhood, yourupbringing was in Northern Germany.
Evi (04:30):
Yep.
Yep.
Absolutely rural.
Mica (04:34):
In your bio, you shared that you credit your love for food and
photography from your upbringing.
What's a memorable moment that shapedthe way you approach your work today?
Evi (04:45):
Well, my, my grandmother, she made all her food from scratch.
So she had a huge garden.
She grew everything.
My grandfather was a avid hunter.
So he would bring the deer homeand the all kinds of other animals
and he would make everything.
So I think just that, that love.
That love for food and the storiesaround food and the passion for
(05:06):
food definitely came from them.
And my mom, is the family, Imean back then even more, she
was the family photographer.
She treated her film cameraas we treat our iPhones now.
She would take so many photos.
We have albums and albums and albumsand she wouldn't just take one photo.
She would go like, oh, she, she,she just loved, everywhere she
(05:28):
would bring her, bring her camera.
So just that combo was very influential.
Mica (05:34):
So your mom is your, your family historian.
Evi (05:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Mica (05:39):
Having so many photos of your family to look back on, like that's
such an awesome thing to have.
I'm really big into genealogy andI've been working on my family tree
for gosh since I started in 2020.
Evi (05:56):
How far have you been able to go back?
Mica (06:00):
Whoo.
On my dad's side, so I'mmixed with Mexican and black.
My mom's side, I've actually gonepretty far back to the early 1700s on
both her maternal and paternal side.
It's actually a lot easier to dogenealogy for Mexicans because in
(06:21):
Mexico, you have two last names.
And it's your father's last namefirst and then it's your mother's.
Searching for family members on mymom's side, it's a lot easier because
I know the mother's maiden last nameand I have the father's last name.
So it's a lot easier.
With my dad, it's beena lot more difficult.
(06:43):
The earliest that I've been able totrace my roots has been 18 Uh, 70.
Which is not surprising.
Black people were freed fromslavery in 1867 and they appeared
on the first census of 1870.
So it's not uncommon for African Americansto trace their roots back to 1870.
(07:05):
And it's really hard afterthat, like anytime before that.
Every so often I'll find a pictureof one of my ancestors or like
a distant cousin or something.
And even though they're like my thirdor fourth cousin, one time removed,
two times removed, I could see thesimilarity, like the features and
I'm like, wow, we are all connected.
(07:26):
It's a really fascinating thing.
Yeah.
So I love that your mom did thatand took pictures of your family.
Evi (07:33):
So there's albums and albums.
It's not just a little box.
It is.
Albums.
And I'm wondering what are we going todo with all these albums because even
she is starting to oh my goodness.
What are we going to do withall of this to think about this?
Right now they live in a good place.
Let's leave them where they are.
But I was wondering maybe one dayI'll go through find like the top 100
(07:55):
out of the top thousands and just,you know, scan them exactly, scan
them and make an album for my kids.
So they have something.
What's crazy now is though there wasthis time period where we would make
photo albums, family photo albums.
But once I think the phones camealong or digital photography,
and we have just so much.
It lives all on the phone.
I've made one album for my daughterfor her first year, my second daughter
(08:19):
already didn't get anything, no albums,all my phone, it's terrible, right?
I even had this hope that I could make,once a year I could make an album, just
highlight the top images from the year.
And then at the end of the year.
Everybody gets this one albumof the year, all the highlights.
I've never gotten around to it.
So I think we got into this whole newworld of photography could be lost.
(08:42):
If somebody loses their phone.
Mica (08:44):
Yeah, there goes the memory of that trip.
I've noticed with iPhones, ittakes you out of the moment because
you're just looking at your screen.
I recently bought a, it'scalled a Paper Shoot camera.
It acts very much like a disposable cameraand it really is just a novelty toy.
I personally think it'soverpriced, but I do like it.
(09:06):
It is really fun.
It's a thin camera, probably about aninch or two thick, or maybe three
inches, I don't know, I don't knowhow to measure to save my life.
But it has just a viewfinder where you cansee, it has four settings, and that's it.
And you take the picture and youcan't see what you shot until
you connect it to your computer.
Evi (09:29):
Oh, so it's still digital.
Mica (09:31):
Yeah, it's still a digital camera, but it acts very much
like a disposable camera.
You have no control over the settings.
You just, you press the shutter andthen you don't know what you got
until you connect it to your phone.
My husband and I, we went toGalveston for our anniversary.
And I took my iPhone and I tookmy, the Paper Shoot camera.
(09:55):
It was one of the funnest experiences,but also very frustrating.
Because that instant gratification thatI get with my iPhone or with my camera,
where I can look at it and I go, okay.
Well, I'm gonna retake thatthat doesn't look good.
With my DSLR, especially I find myselflike retaking a photo I need to get it
perfect and then I'm no longer on vacationI'm a photographer taking a photo but with
(10:19):
this Paper Shoot, and I guess that thisis where I'm getting my money's worth.
But with the paper shoot, I shootthe photo and then that's it.
I go back to whateverit is that I'm doing.
There's no looking through my phone.
There's no scrolling.
There's no, Oh, your eye was closed here.
Let's do it again.
Evi (10:34):
My husband loves Polaroids.
He has always taken a ton ofPolaroids and talk about overpriced.
By now these things are, Ithink, two dollars a photo.
But we have often taken it tofamily functions or friend's
birthdays and just taking Polaroids.
And when we gifted them at theend of the evening, like here,
pick your favorite and keep them.
Has been such a hit becausenobody gets, you, we don't
(10:55):
just don't have that anymore.
That you get it, somethingprinted out as a gift.
Do you know, remember the Holga cameras,these kind of very plastic medium format.
I used to do that a lot.
When I was studying photography,when I was a student, or even before
that, I just, I loved the Holga.
Not only did you not know what you got,you also didn't know because of the
(11:16):
light leaks and all these other problems.
And I changed the front, the lens,into a pinhole for some of the photos.
You would really not know what you get.
Until you got the the film back.
It was so special.
Mica (11:28):
Oh, man.
That reminds me of...
When I, I went to Los Angeleswhen I was 18, that was the first
time I traveled outside of Texas.
I had a film camera, my sisterin law, she let me borrow it.
Evi (11:44):
You talked about this on the podcast, right?
That you slowly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mica (11:48):
So I still have one more roll left to go.
Some of the photos are just, there'slight leaks, it's blurry, like I took
a selfie, and everything behind me isin focus and there was a, a sequence
of photos where I was trying to getthe Hollywood sign, but the car that
I was in, it was moving too fast, andI asked my chaperones, Stop the car!
(12:12):
I want to take a pictureof the Hollywood sign!
And then they stopped the car, andwe couldn't see the Hollywood sign.
So the only pictures that Ihave of this Hollywood sign,
it's like, Half an H and an O L.
And then like a E D.
And then grass, then like mountain.
(12:34):
Maybe one day I'll go back andget an actual photo of Hollywood.
But those are like, I don't know,like, those are memories that I
will take with me and carry with me.
So you moved to New York in the 90s.
Who was Evie back then?
Evi (12:52):
Who was I back then?
I was an art student.
I studied photography inGermany and I came in as an
exchange student to New York.
It's very common in Germany thatyou go abroad for a semester or a
year and, uh, I wanted to go to anEnglish speaking country because
I wanted to study the subject morethan I wanted to study the language.
So, it could have been England,and England is so close,
(13:14):
it's, it's a 20 minute flight.
It wasn't really the adventure, andthen the other program was in Australia,
and that seemed a bit far, thatseemed a bit wild, and then New York.
The few things I knew about NewYork was that it, it has a thriving
art scene, and many times when wewould study an artwork in school.
The picture in the art book underneath itwould say it's in the MoMA in New York.
(13:37):
It's in the Met in New York.
It's this in New York.
I just knew that therewas so much art here.
So many living artists thatI love would live here.
And I thought, okay, that'sgoing to be the place.
You can either call itnaive or very, very open.
Of live, you know, coming from the ruralGermany to, to such a, humongous urban
(14:00):
mega city definitely was exhilarating.
It was scary.
It was exciting.
It was everything at once.
It was quite something,but I just took it all in.
I think I grew up so safe in away that I didn't feel scared.
I walked around day and night,explored every corner of New York.
(14:21):
I couldn't even imagineanything could happen.
I just walked around.
I met people.
I went to art galleries and openings.
I took advantage of New York for sureand all, all, all of the art scenes.
It was just very free.
Very free.
Mica (14:37):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Was photography something that you werealready doing when you came to New York?
Evi (14:46):
Yeah.
In Germany I was studying also fineart, so, printmaking, sculpture,
studio art and photography.
I founded my, high school's photo club.
When I got to New York, to CUNY, CityUniversity of New York, the program
that I was in, I went into this doublemajor situation where it was, I think
it was called electronic design,multimedia, photography, and Do do do
(15:11):
do do do do do do seven other things.
Photography was the bulk of it.
And then I also did a ton ofgraphic design, print making,
a little bit of sculpture.
I only needed a few morecredits and I could have gotten
my, American Bachelor's degree.
So I said, okay, let mejust stay another semester.
I'll just get those and have a Bachelor's.
That's great.
Because at that time, the programsand the degrees you get in
(15:33):
Europe were very different still.
The diplomas are very different.
So I thought, oh, let mejust get that, take it.
And then when I got my Bachelor's, theygave me a scholarship to stay on and get
my Master's in Fine Art with Photography.
Printmaking was my concentration.
So I thought, Oh, let's do that too.
This is great.
And I just love I could walk to the Met.
I could walk to the MoMA.
(15:54):
I could go to Chelsea,to all the art galleries.
I could go to the tiny littlelocal neighborhood galleries.
Mica (15:58):
It's just knowing that you could walk to wherever you needed to see.
It's one thing to see a painting on abook, but it's another to be standing
in its presence and being like, wow.
Evi (16:11):
And also, even at a public university in New York, or maybe especially at a
public university in New York, like CUNY,all your art teachers are mega top notch.
I mean, they're just best ofthe best because they're here.
They live here.
They can have a gig there.
So, I...
I had some fabulous, fantasticteachers that I would have
(16:32):
probably not gotten anywhere else.
Mica (16:34):
I've only been to New York once and it was not by choice.
I got stuck in a winter stormtrying to get back to Austin.
We went to Boston and we got caughtin some weird vortex storm and our
flight was canceled and rescheduledand then we had a layover in New York.
(16:56):
I'd love to give New York another chancebecause I now have more friends there.
And I tell them my storyand they're like, Oh, boo.
This.
No, we, we, we got to redo thisbecause New York is such a great city.
You've got to give it anothertry and I was like, I want to.
So you started in Fine Art with theMasters, when did that transition
(17:18):
to commercial photography?
Like doing this for aliving and freelancing.
Evi (17:23):
Well, about three months, six months before I graduated, I thought,
okay, time to look for a job.
My family wasn't able to support me.
I always worked on the weekends when I wasin grad school and I fortunately got out
without any debt because I worked so much.
But I needed a job because thatwas where the money comes from.
(17:43):
And I did a hot second of assistingphotographers, but it was just, it
was so unreliable, it was so hard toget in as somebody who's completely
new, has no connection and is a woman.
There were just no jobs for me,and I couldn't, or I couldn't
find them either, or it was, yeah,next week, maybe on Tuesday, I
have a job and I can pay you 150.
(18:03):
And it just didn't add up.
Then I looked around and I wasthinking, how can I apply my skills?
So the photo skills, the design skillsin a job that's not freelancy, and I
wasn't ready to go out on my own at all.
So I found a job at a museum tobe the museum's photographer.
So I was still around artworks.
I would photograph the artwork.
(18:24):
I would photograph theannual fundraising gala.
I would photograph all the,the headshots for the website.
I would photograph the exhibitions.
Go somewhere else and photograph thecollection that was being acquired.
I did a ton of the design and back thenin 2005, if you were the photographer,
you also were the graphic designer,and you were also the web designer.
Mica (18:46):
You were the wearer of all the hats.
Evi (18:49):
Of all the hats.
So I did it all, and it was such a joy.
I think those departments have, It'sbeen enlarged now and everybody has their
own little niche and you need it now.
But back then it was Dreamweaverand, um, I don't know, Photoshop.
Was that Photoshop six and a half?
I don't know.
But it was, um.
Mica (19:07):
You said Dreamweaver.
Evi (19:08):
A long time ago or.
The first website I actuallydid an HTML, I think.
Yes, I did program that.
So I did that all and I workedthere for about five years.
I was in house.
And I learned everything and Igot the job, this is amazing.
So this was the transitionfrom film to digital.
And my university has, wasn't, we didhave a digital or a couple of digital
(19:34):
cameras, but the world had alreadymoved on faster than the program had.
So when I left school, it was all,it was just digital was there.
I kind of was in a weird transition.
And the person who left the job wasan older gentleman who was a true film
photographer and he decided to retire,he didn't want to learn all this.
(19:56):
So when they looked for somebody,they wanted somebody that's straight
out of school, knew what's goingon, was on the cutting edge of
technology, and I knew so little.
I knew so little.
So I went to B& H in Adorama and Iasked all the questions, I got all
the gear, because also the museumdidn't have any digital gear.
So they asked me to get it all.
And that's what I mean bybeing a little naive or maybe
(20:16):
being just very open and young.
I was like, sure, I can make that happen.
I can, I can digitize everything.
No problem.
I'll find out.
I just went to B&H, askedall the questions, got all
the gear they recommended.
And then I started the digital revolutionat the museum with very little knowledge,
but more than the other person.
So I fit into that, where the pathof digital and film just intersected.
(20:40):
Yeah.
Mica (20:40):
You were picking up what they were putting down, like they
wanted to live in the future andyou were already halfway there.
Evi (20:49):
One step, one, one tiny step ahead and maybe, and I was just open enough
to not find it a problem, like it wasn'tdifficult for me to adjust and change.
Mica (20:57):
I love hearing stories like that, where it's like, yeah, I'll figure it out.
I may not know it now, but it'slike not letting them see you sweat.
I, I wouldn't even call it naive,I would call it open minded.
If we were so cautious to nottry something out because we've
never done it before or whatever,then we wouldn't get any of that.
(21:18):
What was the hardest transitionfor you when it came to digital or
was there any hard transition?
Learning curves.
Evi (21:28):
Learning curves.
I think you can still do it now.
You can set the camerato shoot without a card.
When you're used to film, you don'tlook at the back of the camera.
You're used to just shootingthrough the viewfinder.
Shoot, shoot, You'renot looking in the back.
So with this digital camera, I wasshooting this event and somehow the
setting was set on shoot without a card.
(21:49):
There was no card in the thing.
And it would blink in the back.
I would shoot through, I'd lookthrough, it would blink in the back.
So the image comes up for a second ora millisecond and then it goes away.
But I never went to check because weweren't in the mode of chimping then.
I was still so used to filmphotography that I never wanted to
go back or look back at the photos.
I was shooting, shooting, shooting.
So this whole event and Ididn't get a single photo.
(22:12):
Oh, that was terrible.
So that was a steep learning curve.
So now one of the must five thingsthat I always check when I'm, because
I've made all these mistakes is A,if I'm shooting not tethered, if
I'm shooting just the card, is thecamera actually recording to the card?
Is it on, is it on raw, not on JPEG?
(22:35):
Because also then the raws were alreadytiny, but the JPEGs were one megabyte,
you couldn't do anything with them.
So there are a couple of, of things thatI make sure that are, that I've learned.
That I will hopefully knock on woodreal fast and never mess up again.
And these are very, very basicmistakes, but they do happen.
And that was just those silly mistakes.
Mica (22:59):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That awful feeling when youlook at the back of your camera
and you're like, oh my God.
Oh my god, and you're like,please, is there a time machine?
Can I go back?
Can redo this?
Do you still dabble in, in film?
Evi (23:16):
Besides Polaroid, not at all, not at all.
I still have all my Holga's, Holga's, Istill have all my Pin Hua, Pin Uol boxes.
As an art project, I, I'd loveto do it again at some point,
mm hmm, but otherwise no.
Mica (23:31):
Do you shoot primarily food these days?
Evi (23:34):
Yeah.
It's almost all food.
It's very food centered.
It could be lifestyle around food or foodpackaging or motion and stills on, on
food commercial sets, but it's very food.
It's a little bit of other product likehome products or cosmetic products, but
mostly food is in the heart of my work.
Mica (23:52):
What drew you to food?
Evi (23:55):
The, the museum had, so I, everything was great, right?
The portraits I took, the architecturalphotography, photographs of the
artwork and all that was great.
It also had a restaurant.
One of those Michelin famous starchefs the executive chef and I was
asked to photograph the menu and thephotos I took were horrible because
(24:15):
I took them in the restaurant underthese spot lights that are orange.
You take a photo and yousee the shadow of the camera.
The food had been sitting therefor half an hour because the chef
had made it three hours earlier.
Those photos were awful and I justcouldn't figure out, I mean, I understood,
okay, so the lighting I see, it's not onthe right spot, so I have to block out
(24:38):
that light and put a different light.
I get it.
But the food, I just couldnot understand how this works.
I asked a couple of myphotographer friends who I
knew was, were shooting food.
It's like, how do you, how do you do this?
How do you get that?
And then they said, Oh,you need a food stylist.
I was like, food stylist, what?
They said, yeah, it's like when, you know,when you show, when you shoot a person,
(25:00):
you usually have them or somebody elsedo the hair and makeup, put an outfit on.
Same with food.
Even if it's restaurant or maybeespecially if it's restaurant food,
you just have to pimp it up a littlebit, or you have to know what to do.
And you cannot photograph the saladan hour after it has been plated.
So that just really intrigued me and I hadto spend an extra effort to get it right
(25:20):
and that just got me a little like whatis this and I just felt so disappointed in
myself that something that I love so much.
I couldn't take a good photo of.
So I needed to dive inthere and solve that.
Yeah, I have a dear dear friend who isa pastry chef and this was the time of
food blogging when food blogging juststarted and Food blogging was a thing.
(25:45):
So we started a blog togethercalled Whip and Click.
So she was whipping and I was clicking.
Mica (25:51):
That is the best blog name ever.
Whip and Click.
Evi (25:57):
That's how I started my journey into food photography for real.
Because that's how I learned.
I had the time, we would meet up,we would do seasonal desserts.
You know, strawberry rhubarbs, anythingthat's in season in the Northeast.
She would create the recipes, wewould write nice posts about it,
I would photograph, yeah, and,and, and that's how I learned.
Mica (26:19):
Do you still work on this blog?
Evi (26:21):
We have retired it.
So we did it for, I want to sayfour or five years, we even got
an award from Food and Wine.
It was really a fantastic blog,very, very wonderful blog.
I transitioned out of the full timejob into, I first agreed with them to
do part time because I still wasn't,I was getting some jobs on the side,
but not enough to fully support that.
(26:42):
So for a while I did part time workand then I did contract work with them.
And during that time, I got moreof my own jobs and more of my
own jobs and more of my own jobs.
And at some point, it became too much.
And also, my family grew, her familygrew, so we just decided, okay,
I think it's, we've done this, weloved it, we're going to retire it.
Mica (27:01):
And you ended it on, on your terms.
Yeah, I had a food blog with myco workers, and friend, Charlotte.
I was just getting into photography,so I was just excited to like
photograph anything and everything.
And she's like, Hey, you got acamera and I got some recipes.
Let's start a food blog.
And we did.
(27:22):
And it was such a cool experiencebecause that was my playground
where I got to get better practice.
Then by the time I transitioned intocommercial food photography, I had
all these years of knowledge andwealth and everything like that.
So I love to meet other fellowphotographers who also blossomed
(27:45):
via blogs, via food blogs.
Evi (27:48):
What was the name of your food blog?
Mica (27:50):
Our food blog was called Let's Taco Bout It, but it had no tacos in it.
Had no tacos in it.
When we first started it, we were justlike, let's just put up some random shit,
you know, we don't know what we're doing.
And then we decided, we need to go backto the drawing board and come up with an
(28:15):
idea that both of us are passionate about.
We both love to read and that'sactually how our friendship blossomed
is our love of books and literature.
So we came up with the idea of creatinga, a full meal for a book character.
So every month wefeatured a different book.
(28:36):
It was so much fun.
So what do you remember aboutyour first paid food shoot?
What was that like?
Evi (28:47):
Coming out of the museum world, I want to say, because,
you know, I was paid for the work.
I did get a salary, but the first oneout, and I'm not a thousand percent
sure if this was the first one, butthe one that comes to mind, when I
started building my, my business.
I had no clients, I had no connections,so the first thing I did is, I had
followed a local blog for a long timeand the blogger there would always
(29:08):
go to restaurants and feature the newrestaurant, feature this, feature that.
And the photography theytook wasn't, wasn't good.
It wasn't, it was just, youknow, blog, very basic in a
way, good enough, good enough.
So I contacted the blog and Isaid, Hey, how about you send me
to these restaurants and these newbusinesses and I give you the photos.
That way, you have great photos forthe blog and I have a connection.
(29:32):
Maybe I can make them introducemyself and maybe they buy some
photos from me afterwards.
So the first place I photographedin the neighborhood was a, it's
an Italian restaurant and I wasjust so thrilled and so amazed.
I took a friend along who helped mestop the lighting and I knew what
I was doing photographically butthis whole going out on your own
finding jobs that all was new to me.
(29:54):
I spent all afternoon there.
We drank the wine.
We tried all the food all the stuffthat is so almost cliche But I mean,
I just had the best time doing this.
And then the owner, ofcourse, they loved the work.
So they bought some of the photos.
This is kind of not something I wouldrecommend to anybody now doing spec work.
(30:15):
But I just I loved it a lot.
And then she hired methe couple of next years.
She hired me back to photographthe restaurant every season.
So that was lovely.
So that was my first localrestaurants, local bakeries.
Very low budget, but big hearts.
I always would go home witha week's worth of food.
(30:36):
It was great.
Financially was okay because I stillhad that part time job at the museum.
So even though they paid very littleand they often paid in food or
gift certificates, it was fabulouseducation and it was working for me.
And from there, it branched out then.
A restaurant had beenfeatured in a magazine.
They still remembered the magazineeditor, the magazine needed new photos.
(31:00):
So then they got me.
Then the classic from localbusinesses to local editorial
work to national editorial work.
Then you start working with some brands.
Very, very classic, uh, food journey.
Mica (31:13):
Sometimes the hardest part is just getting started and
finding another establishmentthat is where you're at with you.
I always say that there's aphotographer for every budget level.
There's nothing wrong with...
making that first connectionwith that first mom and pop, and
that's kind of the best time.
Evi (31:32):
What's the best?
It's the best.
You know what, when the pandemicstarted, all my jobs, of course,
every, like everybody else,every my jobs got canceled.
I couldn't do anything.
I felt terrible.
I was looking for something to do.
So I started volunteeringat a local nonprofit.
They support, promote localChinese, middle small businesses.
I went to these small businesses duringthe pandemic just helping them to market.
(31:56):
I took photos of whatever they wereselling at the doorstep or on the stoop.
Nobody could go in or out, butstill businesses could have
little takeout cocktails or,you know, all kinds of things.
Since then I've volunteered for themand I must have now photographed over
a hundred or so tiny small businessesand truly mom and pop stores that
(32:17):
would never even have a photo shoot.
I mean, they just wouldn't.
These are so heartwarming.
They appreciate it so much.
They're so friendly.
They love what they do.
They love sharing the food with you.
I feel very, very blessed that I'vemade the connection to the nonprofit
and that I get to, to do that.
And that I also don'thave to charge for it.
It's a gift.
Mica (32:35):
What are their reactions when they see their dish for the first time
and like a beautifully lit situation?
Evi (32:43):
The smartphone and social media photography has come a long way.
So I don't blow them out of the water.
You know, I mean, their guests havetotally taken great photos up there.
So it's not the first time thatthey see a photo of their work,
but, I think just taking time andtalking and being connected, they
do, they are all excited, as excitedas I am about, about what we do.
(33:08):
Yeah.
Mica (33:08):
One thing I noticed during the beginnings of the pandemic is
just how much the food photographycommunity and the restaurant
community really stuck together.
I felt that kinship between foodphotographers and restaurants
like leaning on each other.
What's the name of the organizationthat you volunteered for?
Evi (33:26):
It's Uptown Grand Central.
It's right in the heart of Harlem,in New York City, in Manhattan.
And they are doing small businesssupport, community events, farmer's
market, all those kind of things.
Yeah.
Fabulous.
Wonderful organization.
Mica (33:41):
I have a random question.
One art lover to another,who is your favorite artist
or maybe, what is yourfavorite decade of art?
Evi (33:52):
Oh, you are good with your questions.
Favorite decade of artand favorite artist.
Okay, favorite artist.
So there is a Mexican photographer.
Her name is Garciela Ertubin.
Ertubine?
I'm not exactly sure how to say her name.
I wonder what her decade...
(34:14):
I want, I want to say that she worked...
There must be nine in thenine, 19, 20, 30, 40 or so.
Ooh, I might get it all wrong, butbeautiful black and white photography.
She studied a lot of nature and birds andthere's so many black and white gorgeous,
photos of blurry birds in the sky.
And, and he gave me a photowith blurry birds in the sky.
(34:35):
And I just love that.
Garciela Ertubin, she definitelyis one of my favorites.
And then there's a Japanese photographer,Masao Yamamoto, and he does these
tiny little prints of moments.
So it's a child hopping in a pool,all black and white, a lot of sepia.
He's contemporary.
(34:56):
He lives and works right now.
But what he does is he uses all theselittle prints and installs them in.
I think you can make a story out of them,but I don't know if not necessarily very
clear linear storytelling, but let's sayhe puts 10, 20 photos, these tiny photos
together in a little collage situation.
Oh, and it's all thesepoetic, lovely little moments.
All that kind of work I love.
(35:19):
Favorite decade.
Oh, that's hard.
That is hard.
That's really hard.
I do not know.
There's so many special thingsabout each decade that I can't
pinpoint one that I love the most.
Mica (35:33):
That's like trying to pick your favorite song.
How has your background inart influenced or impact how
you approach food photography?
Evi (35:42):
Studying art for that long and studying all these masters of art and
all this super high quality work hasdefinitely made me a bit snooty and judgy.
And also a little self deprecating becauseI am not Annie Leibovitz, Richard Avedon.
So you always be down alittle bit on yourself.
(36:04):
But what I truly enjoy is I knowthat if I'm in these talks with art
directors or with agencies, many ofthese people have studied also fine art.
So when they throw out, oh, let's dothis in the style of, now, of course,
I can't think of anybody, right?
But let's do this like a RichardAvedon type photograph, a portrait.
(36:25):
I know what they're talking about.
They're just speaking the same language.
Knowing where the inspiration comes from,knowing about color theory and composition
and all that has helped a ton for sure.
Mica (36:37):
How has your approach and style evolved over the years from when you
first started to where you are now?
Evi (36:46):
When I was in art school, I've obviously, we're all influenced.
We all have seen things.
We were inspired by somethingwe take from here and from
there and we make our own thing.
But I felt that the art that I wasmaking in art school, or even when
I was doing art on the side while Iwas having my full time job, I felt
that it was more my voice in a way.
(37:08):
Then at the museum, it was all verytechnical and it had to look uniform.
It wasn't very artsy what I was doing.
It was technical because you take thephoto of the statue and the statue
has to be sharp in the background.
It's to be black so you canblah, blah, blah and so on.
Then when I started enteringthe commercial world, it was
still very much Martha Stewart.
(37:30):
Shallow depth of field, verylight and bright daylight.
So you would have this gorgeous threelayer cake in the front with some kind
of chipped wood in the background thatyou could barely see, very out of focus.
Dreamy in a way I would describethis, soft colors, pastels.
I loved it.
(37:50):
It was so simple and then it evolved overtime, trends changed, and if you're in
the commercial world, you change with it.
So colors got poppier, focusgot deeper, shadows got harsher,
more light play came in.
My style over time has changedwith commercial style and
(38:12):
what's wanted in the industry.
Mica (38:14):
I wanted to touch on your LinkedIn profile.
You also did volunteer work asa mentor for Focus On Women.
I love that, that you are doing mentorshipand that's just something awesome,
especially for women photographersthat is so desperately needed.
Why do you think it's important tomentor other photographers, specifically
(38:39):
women, how does this enrich yourwork as a commercial photographer?
Evi (38:44):
I want to give back, because I've learned so much from my colleagues,
from my mentors, going throughschool, so I want to give back.
I love doing it because I think whetheryou've gone through art school or
you've come through this point inyour life, your career through self
taught or however you got into it.
(39:05):
It's the business sideis not taught in school.
There are now more and moreclasses online that you can take.
But I think when I started mentoring,there was very, very, very little.
It was just not out there.
I don't want to call it secretive.
It was just hard to get, come by, get by.
There were some booksout but, um, very little.
There's so much knowledge and there isknowledge that's shared in a video and in
(39:28):
a book, but to completely be open, I thinkthere needs to be some kind of trust.
So these one on one mentorships there'sa lot of trust in that relationship
where I can speak from experiencesthat I had that I might not want
to put out into the bigger world.
Uh, so the, the one on onejust went so much deeper.
I think in the food world, photographyis more open towards women.
(39:51):
But, still there's a lot we haveto, hoops, extra hoops, extra
things we have to get through.
I have to say all the women thatI worked with, they were also
very open, very receptive, happyto share their experiences.
It was a lovely, warmconnection that I had with them.
If the new people are not aware ofwhat is the language that's spoken.
(40:14):
What's the rate you should ask for?
What support do you need?
All these things thats.
Um, they need to know that otherwisethey'll underbid or shoot themselves in
the foot and all these kinds of things.
Mica (40:27):
They'll get themselves in a situation where they maybe bit
off more than they could chew.
Evi (40:33):
That joy that you have in the very beginning, I just, that sparkle,
it just, it's, it's so inspiringto me too, to hear what they're
experiencing, what's happening.
It's fabulous.
Younger generations just also see thebusiness so differently and it's just
lovely to get a fresh of breath air.
Mica (40:53):
I love that you are willing to pass the baton to the next
generation of photographers.
That's what keeps this industryalive is passing on that information.
Evi (41:08):
If I may just throw this in, because if you are a newer photographer, or a
person new to the food world or whateverphotography world you're in, having
three or four photographers that youcan reach out to, because everybody has
their own experience, their own ideas,but just to get a little bit of a flavor
of what's going on, it's so helpful.
I have a little bit of a brain trustwith a handful of photographers that if
(41:31):
I have a question now that are at thesame level where I'm or even higher,
amazing, wonderful colleagues that Ican share my ideas and concerns with.
It's so important because everybody hasit's such a unique approach that you're
like, Oh my God, I never thought of that.
Really?
And then from another personyou hear something completely
(41:51):
different and it's just fascinating.
Mica (41:53):
Is there a mentee that you are, that stands out the most to you?
Evi (42:00):
Mmm, there is, there's one mentee who absolutely took off.
She just, oh my goodness.
Has a stunning website.
Stunning work.
Found an agent.
I mean, just so cool, so cool.
I'm very proud.
I'm very proud.
(42:21):
She's fabulous.
She would have donethat with or without me.
She was on that, on that track,but I'm like, Whoa, that's great.
If you've done it for a while,at some point people pass you
by or bid on the same job.
So then you can like, ooh, let's chat.
Now it's time for you to mentor me.
Mica (42:38):
One of my professors, told me about a photographer that
he assisted for several years.
They were kind of in the same industry,he noticed that my professor is
getting better and better and betteruntil finally he was like, um.
You're now my competition, so youare fired, and you need to get out.
(43:03):
You need to go out on your own.
And Frank was like, Well, shit,I, I don't know if I should be
happy for the compliment or sadthat I am now without a job.
That he's like, yeah,you're, you're good enough.
Um, this is good work.
Evi (43:21):
Yeah.
Out the coop now.
Do your thing.
Yeah.
Mica (43:24):
Time to get out.
I love that.
I love that.
I want to finish today'sinterview by talking about AI.
We talked a little bit aboutit before we started recording.
Nearly every photographer thatI've spoken with about AI, their
immediate reaction is negative.
(43:45):
Like they want nothing to do with it.
And you're the first photographer whoshared the same excitement that I have.
So I'm curious to hear about what.
What excites you the mostabout this and why should other
photographers be excited too?
Evi (44:01):
I want to put in one little caveat.
I'm just looking at the positive sidesof AI right now I know there is big
concern all kinds of troubling thingsthat can happen, but I decided to
to look at the positive side for me.
How I started this whole journeyfrom coming from chemical
photography to, to pixel photography,from darkroom to Photoshop.
(44:25):
I feel like this AI isanother huge crossroads.
It's much bigger than just goingfrom chemical to pixel or even going
from paint to chemical to pixel if,if we have our roots in painting
in a way, depicting the world.
It's so huge.
I find it fascinating because theone thing that I don't like a lot is,
(44:45):
sitting on the computer and retouching.
Now there are some tools in AI thatAdobe is implementing, these content
aware fillers already there, but thereare these way more advanced versions
of that where you can, you have astreet with seven cars, you don't
like the cars, you paintbrush overthem, clumsily and the cars are gone.
(45:05):
I mean, such a one believableeffects that can be happening.
If you're a wedding photographer, alsovery useful, I think, where you can change
people's expressions, and you can givethem an actual smile, an actual laugh.
And I know this is kind of weird, andI don't know if it's ethical or not
to change the expression of a person,but if you had clicked a millisecond
(45:25):
earlier, you would have caught it.
I don't know.
I'm not going into the moral, ethical,and all these kind of concerns.
I'm just, in that technology,there's so much you can use.
We are just at the beginning.
We are in, in 1990, PhotoshopOne, where there were no layers.
We are in the very beginning ofthis, and it's already so powerful.
When I play in, in, in Midjourney,which is the tool I like the most, I
(45:49):
have started, just started Firefly,Adobe Firefly, but Midjourney
so far has been my favorite.
I feed it an image of mine.
I ask it to describe it.
So you can do the slash describe.
And then it gives you back the words.
I feed the words into ChatGPT andsay, hey, make this a more commercial
leave valuable description of aprompt I can use in Midjourney.
(46:13):
Then it throws out ten prompts and thenI put those prompts back in Midjourney.
Then I take that photo and I put it inPhotoshop and manipulate it further.
There's just, there's so much play.
I had an alternative, photoprocesses class in college.
It was all, it was the cyanotypes, itwas the, the Van Dyck printing, the
wet, collodion wet plates and all that.
I know this is all on computer, nothands on, but I've feel that same way
(46:39):
you kind of don't know what you'regetting it's a bit of a surprise what
the machine will spit out for you orwhat the chemicals will spit out for you.
I find it fascinating, especiallythe power of retouching.
I know there is so much more to itand so many more concerns, but I
think the possibilities are justalso quite, quite impressive.
(47:01):
I listened to a, um, a keynote bySeth Godin at Ad World and he did say,
it's not AI that's taking your job.
It's the people who know how touse AI that'll take your job.
As creators, I think it gives us somuch to explore but if you close your
eyes and your ears, ooh, I want youto open them and just dabble around.
Mica (47:19):
I totally and completely agree with you is that this is very much
the beginning, the forefront and I'msure when Photoshop first came out
that there were so many conversationsabout the ethics behind it.
I very much agree with, with Seth Godin.
It is not AI that's going to replace you.
(47:41):
It's going to be the personwho was open minded and curious
enough to learn about open AI.
They found a way.
To make this work for their business.
Like you, I'm looking at the positivesright now and I'm just exploring
and seeing what I could do with it.
When you first started dabblingin AI, what was the first
(48:03):
thing that popped in your mind?
Evi (48:05):
Have you seen the film Her?
It is this AI film, it came out,oh, I want to say, I don't know,
more than 5, or 10 years ago, maybe.
It's a movie with, um, theguy who plays the Joker.
Mica (48:20):
Oh, Joaquin Phoenix.
Evi (48:22):
Exactly, and the voice of Her, Samantha, is, famous
actress, super sexy voice.
She's also the spider inall these, Marvel movies.
Oh, my goodness.
I can't remember her name.
Mica (48:33):
Is it Scarlett Johansson?
Evi (48:35):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
You got it.
So she's kind of theartificially intelligent Siri.
And he falls in love with her andthey have a love relationship.
Somewhere in the beginning,she helps him with his work.
So she's this voice.
She's Siri, basically, the computer.
So he says, Oh, you know, couldyou edit these letters for me?
And she goes, Yeah.
(48:56):
And then she, she, he, shesays, Oh, you know, I see,
let me clean up your computer.
I see you have 5, 707, 000 emails.
Shall I sort them for you?
And then he goes, yeah, please.
You have to watch that movie.
It is so interesting how this was donebefore all of this, so many years.
It's before now andit's so true right now.
I love using ChatGPT forediting my writing, for getting
(49:20):
ideas, for sorting things.
The other day I had a ton ofinformation and I needed a spreadsheet.
I plopped it into chap2pt andsaid, please make a spreadsheet
out of this with these categories.
Boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop, boop, boop.
All done.
It would have taken me a week.
Again, so many problems with it,but for the way I'm using it.
Mica (49:39):
We don't know what problems we're going to have with it until
we approach it and then like allthings we figure out a next step.
I use ChatGPT for meal planning.
We call it a Chef GPT.
And the first time I did it,my husband was not on board.
He was like, wait a minute,let me get this straight.
(50:01):
You're going to make arecipe made from an AI?
I go, yes.
He goes, Oh, this isgoing to taste disgusting.
He's like, come on, Mica..
He's like, please don't do this.
And it made a, gave us a recipefor orange glazed chicken.
And it was the bombest thing ever.
(50:22):
Now, he's like, what didChef ChatGPT make for us?
Evi (50:27):
I love that you call it Chef GPT.
That is, that is such a, youhave to trademark that name.
Mica (50:32):
What would you say to a photographer who is hesitant to explore AI and ChatGPT?
Evi (50:41):
Just be open.
You probably will find a hard timeusing the mid journey or the firefly
and house is all working and it'sstrange, but just try, breathe, be open
and play with it and read about it.
This wave is coming, it's gonna beso fast, so huge that we have to
find our way in it somehow, I don'tknow what the answer is, I don't
(51:02):
know exactly where that is for myselfeither, but um, you just have to be
open minded and open hearted about it.
Mica (51:08):
I want to close out today's interview, with one last question.
What do you hope the listenersgain from today's episode?
Evi (51:16):
Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy, oy.
But I, I hope they, um.
What did they gain from it?
I hope that if they were worried aboutAI, that there is some bright positivity
in there as well and embrace it.
I hope they were able to laugh withus a couple of times and didn't
just shake their heads at us.
(51:37):
Like, what is it?
Ladies babbling along.
I hope they, uh, they foundsome joy, some, some, uh,
some nuggets they can take.
Mica (51:48):
Well, I think they can.
I know I did.
Where can the listenersfind you and support you?
Evi (51:55):
The easiest way of course is Instagram.
It's my name that has a lot ofvowels in it, so I'll spell it.
It's E V I.
E V I A B E L E R, and then my websiteis also E V I A B E L E R dot com, and
from there you will find everything.
You find my, my work, my agent,all the things I'm up to.
Mica (52:18):
Thank you so, so, so much for, for being on the show.
Evi (52:24):
It was lovely.
We have to make this weekly.
We have to make this a weeklysession just between us.
Mica (52:30):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
It's like, what did you discoveron a, on a ChatGPT and be
like, well, I made this recipe.
Welcome to the 29th episode of The Savory Shot.
Y'all.
29 episodes, man!
If this is your first timejoining this Hot Mess Express,
allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Mica and I'myour host with the most.
(00:23):
If you've already been here fromthe beginning, or a couple episodes,
then thank you for coming back.
Welcome to the dark side.
Or I guess I should say,Welcome back to the dark side.
Yeah, that doesn't sound...
Yeah, let's just skip ahead.
Before I even start on how amazingtoday's guest is, I've got to
(00:49):
give some love and a shout out tothe last guest, Rishon Hanners.
Y'all, did you listen to that episode?
Man, if you did, give me aholler, hit me up on Insta.
Let's talk about it.
But if you have not listened to thatepisode, boo, what are you doing here?
(01:14):
Get out, go back, get off, sign off,log off, go listen to that episode.
Her advice is real y'all.
She did not come to play.
She did not.
Show up to gloss anything up for you.
So, if you are looking for somesass, you gotta go listen to it.
She is just an amazing foodstylist, and I enjoyed that episode.
(01:39):
But y'all, let's talkabout today's episode.
I know I say this every singletime, but, ooh, ooh, ooh, this
was my favorite interview.
No, really, really, I mean it this time.
This was my favorite interview.
My heart is just bursting with joy, withhappiness, because y'all, I literally
(02:00):
had one of the best conversations.
So without further ado,today's guest is Evie Abler.
Evie comes.
All the way from Germany.
She got on a plane, went vroom,flew to New York City, and
she's been there ever since.
Slayin workin as a food photographer.
(02:21):
We talked about everything.
We talked about her comin from Germany,what drew her to New York City.
We talked about her mentoringwith Focus On Women and why
that's so important to her.
I'm not gonna tell you everything becausethen, you know, what's the point of you
going to listen to the episode if I'mjust gonna give you the whole synopsis?
(02:43):
So, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonnawaste any more of y'all's time.
I know you got things to do, places to go.
I think I have rolled out thered carpet for long enough.
So let's start the show.
(03:34):
I just want to start off by thanking you.
We're finally doing this.
I'm so excited.
There's been photo shoots.
There's been jury duty.
There's been me losing my voice.
Like we've gone through every catastrophethat you could think of and we are
now here and we're doing this and Ijust want to say thank you so much
(03:56):
for sticking it out and for beinghere on the show on The Savory Shot.
Evi (04:01):
Totally.
Thank you.
Mica.
Thank you.
I'm really excited
Mica (04:04):
I just want to dive right in.
I've been jonesing for thisinterview, and I'm like,
I'm ready, I'm ready, we were talkingabout earlier before I hit the record
button, we were talking about cityliving, rural living, country living.
You're in New York.
I'm in Austin.
But your childhood, yourupbringing was in Northern Germany.
Evi (04:30):
Yep.
Yep.
Absolutely rural.
Mica (04:34):
In your bio, you shared that you credit your love for food and
photography from your upbringing.
What's a memorable moment that shapedthe way you approach your work today?
Evi (04:45):
Well, my, my grandmother, she made all her food from scratch.
So she had a huge garden.
She grew everything.
My grandfather was a avid hunter.
So he would bring the deer homeand the all kinds of other animals
and he would make everything.
So I think just that, that love.
That love for food and the storiesaround food and the passion for
(05:06):
food definitely came from them.
And my mom, is the family, Imean back then even more, she
was the family photographer.
She treated her film cameraas we treat our iPhones now.
She would take so many photos.
We have albums and albums and albumsand she wouldn't just take one photo.
She would go like, oh, she, she,she just loved, everywhere she
(05:28):
would bring her, bring her camera.
So just that combo was very influential.
Mica (05:34):
So your mom is your, your family historian.
Evi (05:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Mica (05:39):
Having so many photos of your family to look back on, like that's
such an awesome thing to have.
I'm really big into genealogy andI've been working on my family tree
for gosh since I started in 2020.
Evi (05:56):
How far have you been able to go back?
Mica (06:00):
Whoo.
On my dad's side, so I'mmixed with Mexican and black.
My mom's side, I've actually gonepretty far back to the early 1700s on
both her maternal and paternal side.
It's actually a lot easier to dogenealogy for Mexicans because in
(06:21):
Mexico, you have two last names.
And it's your father's last namefirst and then it's your mother's.
Searching for family members on mymom's side, it's a lot easier because
I know the mother's maiden last nameand I have the father's last name.
So it's a lot easier.
With my dad, it's beena lot more difficult.
(06:43):
The earliest that I've been able totrace my roots has been 18 Uh, 70.
Which is not surprising.
Black people were freed fromslavery in 1867 and they appeared
on the first census of 1870.
So it's not uncommon for African Americansto trace their roots back to 1870.
(07:05):
And it's really hard afterthat, like anytime before that.
Every so often I'll find a pictureof one of my ancestors or like
a distant cousin or something.
And even though they're like my thirdor fourth cousin, one time removed,
two times removed, I could see thesimilarity, like the features and
I'm like, wow, we are all connected.
(07:26):
It's a really fascinating thing.
Yeah.
So I love that your mom did thatand took pictures of your family.
Evi (07:33):
So there's albums and albums.
It's not just a little box.
It is.
Albums.
And I'm wondering what are we going todo with all these albums because even
she is starting to oh my goodness.
What are we going to do withall of this to think about this?
Right now they live in a good place.
Let's leave them where they are.
But I was wondering maybe one dayI'll go through find like the top 100
(07:55):
out of the top thousands and just,you know, scan them exactly, scan
them and make an album for my kids.
So they have something.
What's crazy now is though there wasthis time period where we would make
photo albums, family photo albums.
But once I think the phones camealong or digital photography,
and we have just so much.
It lives all on the phone.
I've made one album for my daughterfor her first year, my second daughter
(08:19):
already didn't get anything, no albums,all my phone, it's terrible, right?
I even had this hope that I could make,once a year I could make an album, just
highlight the top images from the year.
And then at the end of the year.
Everybody gets this one albumof the year, all the highlights.
I've never gotten around to it.
So I think we got into this whole newworld of photography could be lost.
(08:42):
If somebody loses their phone.
Mica (08:44):
Yeah, there goes the memory of that trip.
I've noticed with iPhones, ittakes you out of the moment because
you're just looking at your screen.
I recently bought a, it'scalled a Paper Shoot camera.
It acts very much like a disposable cameraand it really is just a novelty toy.
I personally think it'soverpriced, but I do like it.
(09:06):
It is really fun.
It's a thin camera, probably about aninch or two thick, or maybe three
inches, I don't know, I don't knowhow to measure to save my life.
But it has just a viewfinder where you cansee, it has four settings, and that's it.
And you take the picture and youcan't see what you shot until
you connect it to your computer.
Evi (09:29):
Oh, so it's still digital.
Mica (09:31):
Yeah, it's still a digital camera, but it acts very much
like a disposable camera.
You have no control over the settings.
You just, you press the shutter andthen you don't know what you got
until you connect it to your phone.
My husband and I, we went toGalveston for our anniversary.
And I took my iPhone and I tookmy, the Paper Shoot camera.
(09:55):
It was one of the funnest experiences,but also very frustrating.
Because that instant gratification thatI get with my iPhone or with my camera,
where I can look at it and I go, okay.
Well, I'm gonna retake thatthat doesn't look good.
With my DSLR, especially I find myselflike retaking a photo I need to get it
perfect and then I'm no longer on vacationI'm a photographer taking a photo but with
(10:19):
this Paper Shoot, and I guess that thisis where I'm getting my money's worth.
But with the paper shoot, I shootthe photo and then that's it.
I go back to whateverit is that I'm doing.
There's no looking through my phone.
There's no scrolling.
There's no, Oh, your eye was closed here.
Let's do it again.
Evi (10:34):
My husband loves Polaroids.
He has always taken a ton ofPolaroids and talk about overpriced.
By now these things are, Ithink, two dollars a photo.
But we have often taken it tofamily functions or friend's
birthdays and just taking Polaroids.
And when we gifted them at theend of the evening, like here,
pick your favorite and keep them.
Has been such a hit becausenobody gets, you, we don't
(10:55):
just don't have that anymore.
That you get it, somethingprinted out as a gift.
Do you know, remember the Holga cameras,these kind of very plastic medium format.
I used to do that a lot.
When I was studying photography,when I was a student, or even before
that, I just, I loved the Holga.
Not only did you not know what you got,you also didn't know because of the
(11:16):
light leaks and all these other problems.
And I changed the front, the lens,into a pinhole for some of the photos.
You would really not know what you get.
Until you got the the film back.
It was so special.
Mica (11:28):
Oh, man.
That reminds me of...
When I, I went to Los Angeleswhen I was 18, that was the first
time I traveled outside of Texas.
I had a film camera, my sisterin law, she let me borrow it.
Evi (11:44):
You talked about this on the podcast, right?
That you slowly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mica (11:48):
So I still have one more roll left to go.
Some of the photos are just, there'slight leaks, it's blurry, like I took
a selfie, and everything behind me isin focus and there was a, a sequence
of photos where I was trying to getthe Hollywood sign, but the car that
I was in, it was moving too fast, andI asked my chaperones, Stop the car!
(12:12):
I want to take a pictureof the Hollywood sign!
And then they stopped the car, andwe couldn't see the Hollywood sign.
So the only pictures that Ihave of this Hollywood sign,
it's like, Half an H and an O L.
And then like a E D.
And then grass, then like mountain.
(12:34):
Maybe one day I'll go back andget an actual photo of Hollywood.
But those are like, I don't know,like, those are memories that I
will take with me and carry with me.
So you moved to New York in the 90s.
Who was Evie back then?
Evi (12:52):
Who was I back then?
I was an art student.
I studied photography inGermany and I came in as an
exchange student to New York.
It's very common in Germany thatyou go abroad for a semester or a
year and, uh, I wanted to go to anEnglish speaking country because
I wanted to study the subject morethan I wanted to study the language.
So, it could have been England,and England is so close,
(13:14):
it's, it's a 20 minute flight.
It wasn't really the adventure, andthen the other program was in Australia,
and that seemed a bit far, thatseemed a bit wild, and then New York.
The few things I knew about NewYork was that it, it has a thriving
art scene, and many times when wewould study an artwork in school.
The picture in the art book underneath itwould say it's in the MoMA in New York.
(13:37):
It's in the Met in New York.
It's this in New York.
I just knew that therewas so much art here.
So many living artists thatI love would live here.
And I thought, okay, that'sgoing to be the place.
You can either call itnaive or very, very open.
Of live, you know, coming from the ruralGermany to, to such a, humongous urban
(14:00):
mega city definitely was exhilarating.
It was scary.
It was exciting.
It was everything at once.
It was quite something,but I just took it all in.
I think I grew up so safe in away that I didn't feel scared.
I walked around day and night,explored every corner of New York.
(14:21):
I couldn't even imagineanything could happen.
I just walked around.
I met people.
I went to art galleries and openings.
I took advantage of New York for sureand all, all, all of the art scenes.
It was just very free.
Very free.
Mica (14:37):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Was photography something that you werealready doing when you came to New York?
Evi (14:46):
Yeah.
In Germany I was studying also fineart, so, printmaking, sculpture,
studio art and photography.
I founded my, high school's photo club.
When I got to New York, to CUNY, CityUniversity of New York, the program
that I was in, I went into this doublemajor situation where it was, I think
it was called electronic design,multimedia, photography, and Do do do
(15:11):
do do do do do do seven other things.
Photography was the bulk of it.
And then I also did a ton ofgraphic design, print making,
a little bit of sculpture.
I only needed a few morecredits and I could have gotten
my, American Bachelor's degree.
So I said, okay, let mejust stay another semester.
I'll just get those and have a Bachelor's.
That's great.
Because at that time, the programsand the degrees you get in
(15:33):
Europe were very different still.
The diplomas are very different.
So I thought, oh, let mejust get that, take it.
And then when I got my Bachelor's, theygave me a scholarship to stay on and get
my Master's in Fine Art with Photography.
Printmaking was my concentration.
So I thought, Oh, let's do that too.
This is great.
And I just love I could walk to the Met.
I could walk to the MoMA.
(15:54):
I could go to Chelsea,to all the art galleries.
I could go to the tiny littlelocal neighborhood galleries.
Mica (15:58):
It's just knowing that you could walk to wherever you needed to see.
It's one thing to see a painting on abook, but it's another to be standing
in its presence and being like, wow.
Evi (16:11):
And also, even at a public university in New York, or maybe especially at a
public university in New York, like CUNY,all your art teachers are mega top notch.
I mean, they're just best ofthe best because they're here.
They live here.
They can have a gig there.
So, I...
I had some fabulous, fantasticteachers that I would have
(16:32):
probably not gotten anywhere else.
Mica (16:34):
I've only been to New York once and it was not by choice.
I got stuck in a winter stormtrying to get back to Austin.
We went to Boston and we got caughtin some weird vortex storm and our
flight was canceled and rescheduledand then we had a layover in New York.
(16:56):
I'd love to give New York another chancebecause I now have more friends there.
And I tell them my storyand they're like, Oh, boo.
This.
No, we, we, we got to redo thisbecause New York is such a great city.
You've got to give it anothertry and I was like, I want to.
So you started in Fine Art with theMasters, when did that transition
(17:18):
to commercial photography?
Like doing this for aliving and freelancing.
Evi (17:23):
Well, about three months, six months before I graduated, I thought,
okay, time to look for a job.
My family wasn't able to support me.
I always worked on the weekends when I wasin grad school and I fortunately got out
without any debt because I worked so much.
But I needed a job because thatwas where the money comes from.
(17:43):
And I did a hot second of assistingphotographers, but it was just, it
was so unreliable, it was so hard toget in as somebody who's completely
new, has no connection and is a woman.
There were just no jobs for me,and I couldn't, or I couldn't
find them either, or it was, yeah,next week, maybe on Tuesday, I
have a job and I can pay you 150.
(18:03):
And it just didn't add up.
Then I looked around and I wasthinking, how can I apply my skills?
So the photo skills, the design skillsin a job that's not freelancy, and I
wasn't ready to go out on my own at all.
So I found a job at a museum tobe the museum's photographer.
So I was still around artworks.
I would photograph the artwork.
(18:24):
I would photograph theannual fundraising gala.
I would photograph all the,the headshots for the website.
I would photograph the exhibitions.
Go somewhere else and photograph thecollection that was being acquired.
I did a ton of the design and back thenin 2005, if you were the photographer,
you also were the graphic designer,and you were also the web designer.
Mica (18:46):
You were the wearer of all the hats.
Evi (18:49):
Of all the hats.
So I did it all, and it was such a joy.
I think those departments have, It'sbeen enlarged now and everybody has their
own little niche and you need it now.
But back then it was Dreamweaverand, um, I don't know, Photoshop.
Was that Photoshop six and a half?
I don't know.
But it was, um.
Mica (19:07):
You said Dreamweaver.
Evi (19:08):
A long time ago or.
The first website I actuallydid an HTML, I think.
Yes, I did program that.
So I did that all and I workedthere for about five years.
I was in house.
And I learned everything and Igot the job, this is amazing.
So this was the transitionfrom film to digital.
And my university has, wasn't, we didhave a digital or a couple of digital
(19:34):
cameras, but the world had alreadymoved on faster than the program had.
So when I left school, it was all,it was just digital was there.
I kind of was in a weird transition.
And the person who left the job wasan older gentleman who was a true film
photographer and he decided to retire,he didn't want to learn all this.
(19:56):
So when they looked for somebody,they wanted somebody that's straight
out of school, knew what's goingon, was on the cutting edge of
technology, and I knew so little.
I knew so little.
So I went to B& H in Adorama and Iasked all the questions, I got all
the gear, because also the museumdidn't have any digital gear.
So they asked me to get it all.
And that's what I mean bybeing a little naive or maybe
(20:16):
being just very open and young.
I was like, sure, I can make that happen.
I can, I can digitize everything.
No problem.
I'll find out.
I just went to B&H, askedall the questions, got all
the gear they recommended.
And then I started the digital revolutionat the museum with very little knowledge,
but more than the other person.
So I fit into that, where the pathof digital and film just intersected.
(20:40):
Yeah.
Mica (20:40):
You were picking up what they were putting down, like they
wanted to live in the future andyou were already halfway there.
Evi (20:49):
One step, one, one tiny step ahead and maybe, and I was just open enough
to not find it a problem, like it wasn'tdifficult for me to adjust and change.
Mica (20:57):
I love hearing stories like that, where it's like, yeah, I'll figure it out.
I may not know it now, but it'slike not letting them see you sweat.
I, I wouldn't even call it naive,I would call it open minded.
If we were so cautious to nottry something out because we've
never done it before or whatever,then we wouldn't get any of that.
(21:18):
What was the hardest transitionfor you when it came to digital or
was there any hard transition?
Learning curves.
Evi (21:28):
Learning curves.
I think you can still do it now.
You can set the camerato shoot without a card.
When you're used to film, you don'tlook at the back of the camera.
You're used to just shootingthrough the viewfinder.
Shoot, shoot, You'renot looking in the back.
So with this digital camera, I wasshooting this event and somehow the
setting was set on shoot without a card.
(21:49):
There was no card in the thing.
And it would blink in the back.
I would shoot through, I'd lookthrough, it would blink in the back.
So the image comes up for a second ora millisecond and then it goes away.
But I never went to check because weweren't in the mode of chimping then.
I was still so used to filmphotography that I never wanted to
go back or look back at the photos.
I was shooting, shooting, shooting.
So this whole event and Ididn't get a single photo.
(22:12):
Oh, that was terrible.
So that was a steep learning curve.
So now one of the must five thingsthat I always check when I'm, because
I've made all these mistakes is A,if I'm shooting not tethered, if
I'm shooting just the card, is thecamera actually recording to the card?
Is it on, is it on raw, not on JPEG?
(22:35):
Because also then the raws were alreadytiny, but the JPEGs were one megabyte,
you couldn't do anything with them.
So there are a couple of, of things thatI make sure that are, that I've learned.
That I will hopefully knock on woodreal fast and never mess up again.
And these are very, very basicmistakes, but they do happen.
And that was just those silly mistakes.
Mica (22:59):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
That awful feeling when youlook at the back of your camera
and you're like, oh my God.
Oh my god, and you're like,please, is there a time machine?
Can I go back?
Can redo this?
Do you still dabble in, in film?
Evi (23:16):
Besides Polaroid, not at all, not at all.
I still have all my Holga's, Holga's, Istill have all my Pin Hua, Pin Uol boxes.
As an art project, I, I'd loveto do it again at some point,
mm hmm, but otherwise no.
Mica (23:31):
Do you shoot primarily food these days?
Evi (23:34):
Yeah.
It's almost all food.
It's very food centered.
It could be lifestyle around food or foodpackaging or motion and stills on, on
food commercial sets, but it's very food.
It's a little bit of other product likehome products or cosmetic products, but
mostly food is in the heart of my work.
Mica (23:52):
What drew you to food?
Evi (23:55):
The, the museum had, so I, everything was great, right?
The portraits I took, the architecturalphotography, photographs of the
artwork and all that was great.
It also had a restaurant.
One of those Michelin famous starchefs the executive chef and I was
asked to photograph the menu and thephotos I took were horrible because
(24:15):
I took them in the restaurant underthese spot lights that are orange.
You take a photo and yousee the shadow of the camera.
The food had been sitting therefor half an hour because the chef
had made it three hours earlier.
Those photos were awful and I justcouldn't figure out, I mean, I understood,
okay, so the lighting I see, it's not onthe right spot, so I have to block out
(24:38):
that light and put a different light.
I get it.
But the food, I just couldnot understand how this works.
I asked a couple of myphotographer friends who I
knew was, were shooting food.
It's like, how do you, how do you do this?
How do you get that?
And then they said, Oh,you need a food stylist.
I was like, food stylist, what?
They said, yeah, it's like when, you know,when you show, when you shoot a person,
(25:00):
you usually have them or somebody elsedo the hair and makeup, put an outfit on.
Same with food.
Even if it's restaurant or maybeespecially if it's restaurant food,
you just have to pimp it up a littlebit, or you have to know what to do.
And you cannot photograph the saladan hour after it has been plated.
So that just really intrigued me and I hadto spend an extra effort to get it right
(25:20):
and that just got me a little like whatis this and I just felt so disappointed in
myself that something that I love so much.
I couldn't take a good photo of.
So I needed to dive inthere and solve that.
Yeah, I have a dear dear friend who isa pastry chef and this was the time of
food blogging when food blogging juststarted and Food blogging was a thing.
(25:45):
So we started a blog togethercalled Whip and Click.
So she was whipping and I was clicking.
Mica (25:51):
That is the best blog name ever.
Whip and Click.
Evi (25:57):
That's how I started my journey into food photography for real.
Because that's how I learned.
I had the time, we would meet up,we would do seasonal desserts.
You know, strawberry rhubarbs, anythingthat's in season in the Northeast.
She would create the recipes, wewould write nice posts about it,
I would photograph, yeah, and,and, and that's how I learned.
Mica (26:19):
Do you still work on this blog?
Evi (26:21):
We have retired it.
So we did it for, I want to sayfour or five years, we even got
an award from Food and Wine.
It was really a fantastic blog,very, very wonderful blog.
I transitioned out of the full timejob into, I first agreed with them to
do part time because I still wasn't,I was getting some jobs on the side,
but not enough to fully support that.
(26:42):
So for a while I did part time workand then I did contract work with them.
And during that time, I got moreof my own jobs and more of my
own jobs and more of my own jobs.
And at some point, it became too much.
And also, my family grew, her familygrew, so we just decided, okay,
I think it's, we've done this, weloved it, we're going to retire it.
Mica (27:01):
And you ended it on, on your terms.
Yeah, I had a food blog with myco workers, and friend, Charlotte.
I was just getting into photography,so I was just excited to like
photograph anything and everything.
And she's like, Hey, you got acamera and I got some recipes.
Let's start a food blog.
And we did.
(27:22):
And it was such a cool experiencebecause that was my playground
where I got to get better practice.
Then by the time I transitioned intocommercial food photography, I had
all these years of knowledge andwealth and everything like that.
So I love to meet other fellowphotographers who also blossomed
(27:45):
via blogs, via food blogs.
Evi (27:48):
What was the name of your food blog?
Mica (27:50):
Our food blog was called Let's Taco Bout It, but it had no tacos in it.
Had no tacos in it.
When we first started it, we were justlike, let's just put up some random shit,
you know, we don't know what we're doing.
And then we decided, we need to go backto the drawing board and come up with an
(28:15):
idea that both of us are passionate about.
We both love to read and that'sactually how our friendship blossomed
is our love of books and literature.
So we came up with the idea of creatinga, a full meal for a book character.
So every month wefeatured a different book.
(28:36):
It was so much fun.
So what do you remember aboutyour first paid food shoot?
What was that like?
Evi (28:47):
Coming out of the museum world, I want to say, because,
you know, I was paid for the work.
I did get a salary, but the first oneout, and I'm not a thousand percent
sure if this was the first one, butthe one that comes to mind, when I
started building my, my business.
I had no clients, I had no connections,so the first thing I did is, I had
followed a local blog for a long timeand the blogger there would always
(29:08):
go to restaurants and feature the newrestaurant, feature this, feature that.
And the photography theytook wasn't, wasn't good.
It wasn't, it was just, youknow, blog, very basic in a
way, good enough, good enough.
So I contacted the blog and Isaid, Hey, how about you send me
to these restaurants and these newbusinesses and I give you the photos.
That way, you have great photos forthe blog and I have a connection.
(29:32):
Maybe I can make them introducemyself and maybe they buy some
photos from me afterwards.
So the first place I photographedin the neighborhood was a, it's
an Italian restaurant and I wasjust so thrilled and so amazed.
I took a friend along who helped mestop the lighting and I knew what
I was doing photographically butthis whole going out on your own
finding jobs that all was new to me.
(29:54):
I spent all afternoon there.
We drank the wine.
We tried all the food all the stuffthat is so almost cliche But I mean,
I just had the best time doing this.
And then the owner, ofcourse, they loved the work.
So they bought some of the photos.
This is kind of not something I wouldrecommend to anybody now doing spec work.
(30:15):
But I just I loved it a lot.
And then she hired methe couple of next years.
She hired me back to photographthe restaurant every season.
So that was lovely.
So that was my first localrestaurants, local bakeries.
Very low budget, but big hearts.
I always would go home witha week's worth of food.
(30:36):
It was great.
Financially was okay because I stillhad that part time job at the museum.
So even though they paid very littleand they often paid in food or
gift certificates, it was fabulouseducation and it was working for me.
And from there, it branched out then.
A restaurant had beenfeatured in a magazine.
They still remembered the magazineeditor, the magazine needed new photos.
(31:00):
So then they got me.
Then the classic from localbusinesses to local editorial
work to national editorial work.
Then you start working with some brands.
Very, very classic, uh, food journey.
Mica (31:13):
Sometimes the hardest part is just getting started and
finding another establishmentthat is where you're at with you.
I always say that there's aphotographer for every budget level.
There's nothing wrong with...
making that first connectionwith that first mom and pop, and
that's kind of the best time.
Evi (31:32):
What's the best?
It's the best.
You know what, when the pandemicstarted, all my jobs, of course,
every, like everybody else,every my jobs got canceled.
I couldn't do anything.
I felt terrible.
I was looking for something to do.
So I started volunteeringat a local nonprofit.
They support, promote localChinese, middle small businesses.
I went to these small businesses duringthe pandemic just helping them to market.
(31:56):
I took photos of whatever they wereselling at the doorstep or on the stoop.
Nobody could go in or out, butstill businesses could have
little takeout cocktails or,you know, all kinds of things.
Since then I've volunteered for themand I must have now photographed over
a hundred or so tiny small businessesand truly mom and pop stores that
(32:17):
would never even have a photo shoot.
I mean, they just wouldn't.
These are so heartwarming.
They appreciate it so much.
They're so friendly.
They love what they do.
They love sharing the food with you.
I feel very, very blessed that I'vemade the connection to the nonprofit
and that I get to, to do that.
And that I also don'thave to charge for it.
It's a gift.
Mica (32:35):
What are their reactions when they see their dish for the first time
and like a beautifully lit situation?
Evi (32:43):
The smartphone and social media photography has come a long way.
So I don't blow them out of the water.
You know, I mean, their guests havetotally taken great photos up there.
So it's not the first time thatthey see a photo of their work,
but, I think just taking time andtalking and being connected, they
do, they are all excited, as excitedas I am about, about what we do.
(33:08):
Yeah.
Mica (33:08):
One thing I noticed during the beginnings of the pandemic is
just how much the food photographycommunity and the restaurant
community really stuck together.
I felt that kinship between foodphotographers and restaurants
like leaning on each other.
What's the name of the organizationthat you volunteered for?
Evi (33:26):
It's Uptown Grand Central.
It's right in the heart of Harlem,in New York City, in Manhattan.
And they are doing small businesssupport, community events, farmer's
market, all those kind of things.
Yeah.
Fabulous.
Wonderful organization.
Mica (33:41):
I have a random question.
One art lover to another,who is your favorite artist
or maybe, what is yourfavorite decade of art?
Evi (33:52):
Oh, you are good with your questions.
Favorite decade of artand favorite artist.
Okay, favorite artist.
So there is a Mexican photographer.
Her name is Garciela Ertubin.
Ertubine?
I'm not exactly sure how to say her name.
I wonder what her decade...
(34:14):
I want, I want to say that she worked...
There must be nine in thenine, 19, 20, 30, 40 or so.
Ooh, I might get it all wrong, butbeautiful black and white photography.
She studied a lot of nature and birds andthere's so many black and white gorgeous,
photos of blurry birds in the sky.
And, and he gave me a photowith blurry birds in the sky.
(34:35):
And I just love that.
Garciela Ertubin, she definitelyis one of my favorites.
And then there's a Japanese photographer,Masao Yamamoto, and he does these
tiny little prints of moments.
So it's a child hopping in a pool,all black and white, a lot of sepia.
He's contemporary.
(34:56):
He lives and works right now.
But what he does is he uses all theselittle prints and installs them in.
I think you can make a story out of them,but I don't know if not necessarily very
clear linear storytelling, but let's sayhe puts 10, 20 photos, these tiny photos
together in a little collage situation.
Oh, and it's all thesepoetic, lovely little moments.
All that kind of work I love.
(35:19):
Favorite decade.
Oh, that's hard.
That is hard.
That's really hard.
I do not know.
There's so many special thingsabout each decade that I can't
pinpoint one that I love the most.
Mica (35:33):
That's like trying to pick your favorite song.
How has your background inart influenced or impact how
you approach food photography?
Evi (35:42):
Studying art for that long and studying all these masters of art and
all this super high quality work hasdefinitely made me a bit snooty and judgy.
And also a little self deprecating becauseI am not Annie Leibovitz, Richard Avedon.
So you always be down alittle bit on yourself.
(36:04):
But what I truly enjoy is I knowthat if I'm in these talks with art
directors or with agencies, many ofthese people have studied also fine art.
So when they throw out, oh, let's dothis in the style of, now, of course,
I can't think of anybody, right?
But let's do this like a RichardAvedon type photograph, a portrait.
(36:25):
I know what they're talking about.
They're just speaking the same language.
Knowing where the inspiration comes from,knowing about color theory and composition
and all that has helped a ton for sure.
Mica (36:37):
How has your approach and style evolved over the years from when you
first started to where you are now?
Evi (36:46):
When I was in art school, I've obviously, we're all influenced.
We all have seen things.
We were inspired by somethingwe take from here and from
there and we make our own thing.
But I felt that the art that I wasmaking in art school, or even when
I was doing art on the side while Iwas having my full time job, I felt
that it was more my voice in a way.
(37:08):
Then at the museum, it was all verytechnical and it had to look uniform.
It wasn't very artsy what I was doing.
It was technical because you take thephoto of the statue and the statue
has to be sharp in the background.
It's to be black so you canblah, blah, blah and so on.
Then when I started enteringthe commercial world, it was
still very much Martha Stewart.
(37:30):
Shallow depth of field, verylight and bright daylight.
So you would have this gorgeous threelayer cake in the front with some kind
of chipped wood in the background thatyou could barely see, very out of focus.
Dreamy in a way I would describethis, soft colors, pastels.
I loved it.
(37:50):
It was so simple and then it evolved overtime, trends changed, and if you're in
the commercial world, you change with it.
So colors got poppier, focusgot deeper, shadows got harsher,
more light play came in.
My style over time has changedwith commercial style and
(38:12):
what's wanted in the industry.
Mica (38:14):
I wanted to touch on your LinkedIn profile.
You also did volunteer work asa mentor for Focus On Women.
I love that, that you are doing mentorshipand that's just something awesome,
especially for women photographersthat is so desperately needed.
Why do you think it's important tomentor other photographers, specifically
(38:39):
women, how does this enrich yourwork as a commercial photographer?
Evi (38:44):
I want to give back, because I've learned so much from my colleagues,
from my mentors, going throughschool, so I want to give back.
I love doing it because I think whetheryou've gone through art school or
you've come through this point inyour life, your career through self
taught or however you got into it.
(39:05):
It's the business sideis not taught in school.
There are now more and moreclasses online that you can take.
But I think when I started mentoring,there was very, very, very little.
It was just not out there.
I don't want to call it secretive.
It was just hard to get, come by, get by.
There were some booksout but, um, very little.
There's so much knowledge and there isknowledge that's shared in a video and in
(39:28):
a book, but to completely be open, I thinkthere needs to be some kind of trust.
So these one on one mentorships there'sa lot of trust in that relationship
where I can speak from experiencesthat I had that I might not want
to put out into the bigger world.
Uh, so the, the one on onejust went so much deeper.
I think in the food world, photographyis more open towards women.
(39:51):
But, still there's a lot we haveto, hoops, extra hoops, extra
things we have to get through.
I have to say all the women thatI worked with, they were also
very open, very receptive, happyto share their experiences.
It was a lovely, warmconnection that I had with them.
If the new people are not aware ofwhat is the language that's spoken.
(40:14):
What's the rate you should ask for?
What support do you need?
All these things thats.
Um, they need to know that otherwisethey'll underbid or shoot themselves in
the foot and all these kinds of things.
Mica (40:27):
They'll get themselves in a situation where they maybe bit
off more than they could chew.
Evi (40:33):
That joy that you have in the very beginning, I just, that sparkle,
it just, it's, it's so inspiringto me too, to hear what they're
experiencing, what's happening.
It's fabulous.
Younger generations just also see thebusiness so differently and it's just
lovely to get a fresh of breath air.
Mica (40:53):
I love that you are willing to pass the baton to the next
generation of photographers.
That's what keeps this industryalive is passing on that information.
Evi (41:08):
If I may just throw this in, because if you are a newer photographer, or a
person new to the food world or whateverphotography world you're in, having
three or four photographers that youcan reach out to, because everybody has
their own experience, their own ideas,but just to get a little bit of a flavor
of what's going on, it's so helpful.
I have a little bit of a brain trustwith a handful of photographers that if
(41:31):
I have a question now that are at thesame level where I'm or even higher,
amazing, wonderful colleagues that Ican share my ideas and concerns with.
It's so important because everybody hasit's such a unique approach that you're
like, Oh my God, I never thought of that.
Really?
And then from another personyou hear something completely
(41:51):
different and it's just fascinating.
Mica (41:53):
Is there a mentee that you are, that stands out the most to you?
Evi (42:00):
Mmm, there is, there's one mentee who absolutely took off.
She just, oh my goodness.
Has a stunning website.
Stunning work.
Found an agent.
I mean, just so cool, so cool.
I'm very proud.
I'm very proud.
(42:21):
She's fabulous.
She would have donethat with or without me.
She was on that, on that track,but I'm like, Whoa, that's great.
If you've done it for a while,at some point people pass you
by or bid on the same job.
So then you can like, ooh, let's chat.
Now it's time for you to mentor me.
Mica (42:38):
One of my professors, told me about a photographer that
he assisted for several years.
They were kind of in the same industry,he noticed that my professor is
getting better and better and betteruntil finally he was like, um.
You're now my competition, so youare fired, and you need to get out.
(43:03):
You need to go out on your own.
And Frank was like, Well, shit,I, I don't know if I should be
happy for the compliment or sadthat I am now without a job.
That he's like, yeah,you're, you're good enough.
Um, this is good work.
Evi (43:21):
Yeah.
Out the coop now.
Do your thing.
Yeah.
Mica (43:24):
Time to get out.
I love that.
I love that.
I want to finish today'sinterview by talking about AI.
We talked a little bit aboutit before we started recording.
Nearly every photographer thatI've spoken with about AI, their
immediate reaction is negative.
(43:45):
Like they want nothing to do with it.
And you're the first photographer whoshared the same excitement that I have.
So I'm curious to hear about what.
What excites you the mostabout this and why should other
photographers be excited too?
Evi (44:01):
I want to put in one little caveat.
I'm just looking at the positive sidesof AI right now I know there is big
concern all kinds of troubling thingsthat can happen, but I decided to
to look at the positive side for me.
How I started this whole journeyfrom coming from chemical
photography to, to pixel photography,from darkroom to Photoshop.
(44:25):
I feel like this AI isanother huge crossroads.
It's much bigger than just goingfrom chemical to pixel or even going
from paint to chemical to pixel if,if we have our roots in painting
in a way, depicting the world.
It's so huge.
I find it fascinating because theone thing that I don't like a lot is,
(44:45):
sitting on the computer and retouching.
Now there are some tools in AI thatAdobe is implementing, these content
aware fillers already there, but thereare these way more advanced versions
of that where you can, you have astreet with seven cars, you don't
like the cars, you paintbrush overthem, clumsily and the cars are gone.
(45:05):
I mean, such a one believableeffects that can be happening.
If you're a wedding photographer, alsovery useful, I think, where you can change
people's expressions, and you can givethem an actual smile, an actual laugh.
And I know this is kind of weird, andI don't know if it's ethical or not
to change the expression of a person,but if you had clicked a millisecond
(45:25):
earlier, you would have caught it.
I don't know.
I'm not going into the moral, ethical,and all these kind of concerns.
I'm just, in that technology,there's so much you can use.
We are just at the beginning.
We are in, in 1990, PhotoshopOne, where there were no layers.
We are in the very beginning ofthis, and it's already so powerful.
When I play in, in, in Midjourney,which is the tool I like the most, I
(45:49):
have started, just started Firefly,Adobe Firefly, but Midjourney
so far has been my favorite.
I feed it an image of mine.
I ask it to describe it.
So you can do the slash describe.
And then it gives you back the words.
I feed the words into ChatGPT andsay, hey, make this a more commercial
leave valuable description of aprompt I can use in Midjourney.
(46:13):
Then it throws out ten prompts and thenI put those prompts back in Midjourney.
Then I take that photo and I put it inPhotoshop and manipulate it further.
There's just, there's so much play.
I had an alternative, photoprocesses class in college.
It was all, it was the cyanotypes, itwas the, the Van Dyck printing, the
wet, collodion wet plates and all that.
I know this is all on computer, nothands on, but I've feel that same way
(46:39):
you kind of don't know what you'regetting it's a bit of a surprise what
the machine will spit out for you orwhat the chemicals will spit out for you.
I find it fascinating, especiallythe power of retouching.
I know there is so much more to itand so many more concerns, but I
think the possibilities are justalso quite, quite impressive.
(47:01):
I listened to a, um, a keynote bySeth Godin at Ad World and he did say,
it's not AI that's taking your job.
It's the people who know how touse AI that'll take your job.
As creators, I think it gives us somuch to explore but if you close your
eyes and your ears, ooh, I want youto open them and just dabble around.
Mica (47:19):
I totally and completely agree with you is that this is very much
the beginning, the forefront and I'msure when Photoshop first came out
that there were so many conversationsabout the ethics behind it.
I very much agree with, with Seth Godin.
It is not AI that's going to replace you.
(47:41):
It's going to be the personwho was open minded and curious
enough to learn about open AI.
They found a way.
To make this work for their business.
Like you, I'm looking at the positivesright now and I'm just exploring
and seeing what I could do with it.
When you first started dabblingin AI, what was the first
(48:03):
thing that popped in your mind?
Evi (48:05):
Have you seen the film Her?
It is this AI film, it came out,oh, I want to say, I don't know,
more than 5, or 10 years ago, maybe.
It's a movie with, um, theguy who plays the Joker.
Mica (48:20):
Oh, Joaquin Phoenix.
Evi (48:22):
Exactly, and the voice of Her, Samantha, is, famous
actress, super sexy voice.
She's also the spider inall these, Marvel movies.
Oh, my goodness.
I can't remember her name.
Mica (48:33):
Is it Scarlett Johansson?
Evi (48:35):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
You got it.
So she's kind of theartificially intelligent Siri.
And he falls in love with her andthey have a love relationship.
Somewhere in the beginning,she helps him with his work.
So she's this voice.
She's Siri, basically, the computer.
So he says, Oh, you know, couldyou edit these letters for me?
And she goes, Yeah.
(48:56):
And then she, she, he, shesays, Oh, you know, I see,
let me clean up your computer.
I see you have 5, 707, 000 emails.
Shall I sort them for you?
And then he goes, yeah, please.
You have to watch that movie.
It is so interesting how this was donebefore all of this, so many years.
It's before now andit's so true right now.
I love using ChatGPT forediting my writing, for getting
(49:20):
ideas, for sorting things.
The other day I had a ton ofinformation and I needed a spreadsheet.
I plopped it into chap2pt andsaid, please make a spreadsheet
out of this with these categories.
Boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop, boop, boop.
All done.
It would have taken me a week.
Again, so many problems with it,but for the way I'm using it.
Mica (49:39):
We don't know what problems we're going to have with it until
we approach it and then like allthings we figure out a next step.
I use ChatGPT for meal planning.
We call it a Chef GPT.
And the first time I did it,my husband was not on board.
He was like, wait a minute,let me get this straight.
(50:01):
You're going to make arecipe made from an AI?
I go, yes.
He goes, Oh, this isgoing to taste disgusting.
He's like, come on, Mica..
He's like, please don't do this.
And it made a, gave us a recipefor orange glazed chicken.
And it was the bombest thing ever.
(50:22):
Now, he's like, what didChef ChatGPT make for us?
Evi (50:27):
I love that you call it Chef GPT.
That is, that is such a, youhave to trademark that name.
Mica (50:32):
What would you say to a photographer who is hesitant to explore AI and ChatGPT?
Evi (50:41):
Just be open.
You probably will find a hard timeusing the mid journey or the firefly
and house is all working and it'sstrange, but just try, breathe, be open
and play with it and read about it.
This wave is coming, it's gonna beso fast, so huge that we have to
find our way in it somehow, I don'tknow what the answer is, I don't
(51:02):
know exactly where that is for myselfeither, but um, you just have to be
open minded and open hearted about it.
Mica (51:08):
I want to close out today's interview, with one last question.
What do you hope the listenersgain from today's episode?
Evi (51:16):
Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy, oy.
But I, I hope they, um.
What did they gain from it?
I hope that if they were worried aboutAI, that there is some bright positivity
in there as well and embrace it.
I hope they were able to laugh withus a couple of times and didn't
just shake their heads at us.
(51:37):
Like, what is it?
Ladies babbling along.
I hope they, uh, they foundsome joy, some, some, uh,
some nuggets they can take.
Mica (51:48):
Well, I think they can.
I know I did.
Where can the listenersfind you and support you?
Evi (51:55):
The easiest way of course is Instagram.
It's my name that has a lot ofvowels in it, so I'll spell it.
It's E V I.
E V I A B E L E R, and then my websiteis also E V I A B E L E R dot com, and
from there you will find everything.
You find my, my work, my agent,all the things I'm up to.
Mica (52:18):
Thank you so, so, so much for, for being on the show.
Evi (52:24):
It was lovely.
We have to make this weekly.
We have to make this a weeklysession just between us.
Mica (52:30):
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
It's like, what did you discoveron a, on a ChatGPT and be
like, well, I made this recipe.
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