November 29, 2023 • 46 mins
Get ready for a treat in today's episode. We're chatting with the amazing Lisa Homa, a food styling genius with 25 years of experience under her belt. Lisa's here to spill the beans on what it takes to make food look irresistibly delicious. She's going to give us the inside scoop on breaking into food styling, and trust me, it's an art form that's way deeper than just making dishes look pretty. Snag your go-to munchie and come along as we plunge into the tantalizing, and sometimes unexpected, realm of food styling and photography. Join us as we demystify the trade, immerse ourselves in the artistry, and discover the thrill of transforming ordinary meals into extraordinary visual feasts!
Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.
Savory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/lisahoma/ Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mica (00:00):
Welcome to the 37th episode of the Savory Shot.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
Food photographer, podcasthost, Harry Potter Expert.
I want to start the show off bysaying thanks for showing up again.
(00:22):
And if this is your first time joiningus, welcome to the Hot Mess Express.
Pull up a seat, grab some coffee.
We are in for a bangin good time.
I hope everyone had a bombfantastic Thanksgiving holiday.
If you eat turkey, I hope youstuffed yourself silly with turkey.
(00:44):
If you're a ham person, like me.
I hope you gobbled up all that ham.
And if you are vegan vegetarian,I hope you gobbled that too.
I was trying to find thevegan word for gobble.
I guess it would be the same.
Wouldn't it be the same?
Ignore me, y'all.
I'm, I'm still, yeah.
(01:06):
Moving on.
Well, I had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
It was one of thoseHallmark type of holidays.
I mean, the whole family was around.
It was a lot of fun.
I ate a lot of ham.
(01:28):
I don't know about y'all, but my threestaple things that I have to eat every
Thanksgiving are stuffing, ham, and gravy.
I don't eat anything else.
I like mac and cheese,but not on Thanksgiving.
I don't need no green bean casserole.
Pass it on to the next.
(01:49):
Thank you very much.
I just gorge myself on ham,stuffing, and turkey gravy.
So, pretty simple.
I want to hear about your holiday.
What did you do?
Where did you go?
Did you travel?
Come tell me.
Let's have a chat.
I have one little favor to ask you guys.
(02:11):
If you're in the giving spirit,would you head over to Apple Podcasts
and leave a review for the show?
It's been such a long time sincewe got a review, and so I'd love
to hear some, some feedback.
Be it positive or critical, butreally just positive because,
(02:33):
you know, who wants to feel sad?
Gosh, you guys, I missed you so much.
I missed you so much.
I'm excited to dive into this episode.
This next guest is absolutely amazing.
I will not keep youguys waiting any longer.
(02:54):
Without further ado, drumroll, do do do dodo do do do, I introduce our next guest.
Lisa Homa.
Y'all, Lisa has been...
A food stylist for 25 years.
Incredible.
She apprenticed under the amazingfood stylist Dolores Custer.
(03:17):
Rest in peace.
If you are a food photographer,food stylist, you probably have
the book called Food Styling.
Well, Lisa assisted her for fiveyears before striking out on her own.
Lisa has a knack for turning simpleingredients into amazing visual treats.
(03:39):
She's got an incredible eyefor the finer details, and she
really gets the beauty of food.
Y'all, Lisa's been everywhere.
She's got a client listthat is ten years long.
I mean, she's done work for Absolute,Hennessey, KitchenAid, Hellman's.
She's been featured on Food TVNetwork, Good Morning America,
(04:02):
Live with Regis and Kelly.
She's been everywhere.
You've seen her work in Bon Appetit,Cooking Light, Country Living, Esquire,
Every Day with Rachel Ray, Gourmet Live.
She's done cookbook after cookbook aftercookbook and one of her cookbooks that
she worked on was Antoni in the Kitchen.
A New York Times bestseller.
(04:24):
So I think it's safe to saythat homegirl knows her stuff.
She took time out of her amazing and busyschedule to chat with us and to talk about
her experiences as a, as a food stylist.
We had so much fun in this interview.
And we talked about things that thegeneral public doesn't understand about
(04:48):
food styling and what food stylists do.
We talked about the lessons thatLisa learned from her mentor Dolores.
But y'all, I won't give awaythe whole show because then what
would be the point of listening?
Grab your coffee, grab your martini,it's five o'clock somewhere.
(05:08):
Kick back and...
Let's start the show.
(05:49):
Lisa, thank you so much for comingon the show for being a guest.
I can already tell that we aregonna have such a great time.
We were talking for 20 30 minutesbefore we started recording and I was
just thinking oh my god I could talkto you forever and ever and ever a
whole afternoon about Philadelphia,about just life, I could do it all.
(06:12):
So thank you so much forbeing on the show and welcome.
Lisa (06:16):
Sure, thank you for inviting me, Mica.
Happy to be here.
Mica (06:20):
So I have like a whole meat and potato of questions
and I'm going to dive on in.
Lisa (06:26):
Dive in.
Mica (06:27):
Let's do it.
We're gonna dive in.
You mentioned in an interview,and you mentioned earlier in your
interview with Creative Confidential,which, go listen to that episode.
That was, like, such a great interview.
And you mentioned that you went toculinary school to become a food stylist.
Take me back to your first day in class.
(06:49):
What do you remember about that day?
Lisa (06:52):
One of the things that I remember, I had the opportunity
to have a phenomenal instructor.
The school was, it's now ICE I C Ein Manhattan, which is, I don't know,
the Institute of Culinary somethingor other, but it was, at that
time, it was Peter Kump's New Yorkcooking school before it became ICE.
Jim Peterson was my instructor,and he has written, the Bible on
(07:16):
sauces, on soups, on vegetables.
He's amazing, so I was reallylucky to have him, but he was
very good, but very demanding.
And I just remember being incrediblyexcited thinking I am in my place.
I was doing a night school programbecause I'm still working in my
cushy corporate job and thinking,wow, I've cooked my entire life.
(07:41):
I thought I knew how to cook, butthere were so many techniques because
we were learning French techniques.
I thought I knew how to cookuntil I got to cooking school.
And I, highly recommend it for anyonethat is going to pursue the field.
My mentor and the woman that Iassisted for five years, Dolores
(08:01):
Custer, who was like the GOAT.
I assisted her for five years.
She was, she was like thistall Scandinavian blonde.
And I'm this short littleethnic, dark haired thing.
We were great together, but we, we,we became very close friends too.
Mica (08:18):
So you you thought you knew how to cook until you got there.
You mentioned something earlierabout when you started culinary
school, you knew for a fact that foodstyling was what you wanted to do.
How did you come to that choice?
Lisa (08:36):
I was in a, I worked in a visual field and I was, the aesthetic and
visuals were always very important to art.
Art was very important to me.
I studied art history for a whileuntil I went through the advertising,
marketing, and of, of school, butand work, but I always loved to cook.
I was one of one of six kids.
I was the one that cooked withmy mother who was phenomenal and
(09:00):
her mother was a phenomenal cook.
I was the one and you know wouldlike shoo my other sisters out of
the kitchen because they just wantedto play and have fun in the kitchen
and I was very serious about it.
I always was.
Even while I pursued other jobs,I always did something in food.
Whether it was catering friendsweddings or whatever, but I
(09:20):
always did something in food.
So when I moved to New York City, Itook a job in publishing in Manhattan
and I discovered there was such athing as food styling for photography.
And I thought, boy, wouldn't it begreat to combine the visual and culinary
skills because that's what it is.
It's a complete combinationof visual and culinary.
So I looked up, someone that wasteaching courses in this, there aren't
(09:43):
a lot of people, but Dolores Custerwas teaching the course up at the CIA,
the Culinary Institute in Hyde Park.
It was just a week long intensivecourse, so I took it, and she
felt that I would be good at it.
But she said, you really should goback to culinary school if you want
to be taken seriously in this field.
(10:03):
In Manhattan, there's a lot of competitionand you need to be good at what you're
doing or you're not going to succeed.
So, that's what I did.
I still had my corporate job.
They took it down to three days aweek, still giving my full time salary.
And eventually I just had to cutthe cord and start assisting.
I couldn't assist untilI did cut that cord.
(10:24):
Dolores was the main person I assisted,but I did assist other people as
well because I, everybody does.
This trade, everybody has differenttechniques and styles and different
types of clients that they work with,whether they're doing more commercials
or more cookbooks or, everybody has adifferent aesthetic and sensibility.
(10:45):
Like, I could look at, I, I could lookat magazines at that time and tell who
the food stylist was, that kind of thing
Mica (10:53):
It's like the photographer and their style and you look at it
and you're like, that's a so and so.
I already know.
Lisa (10:58):
Exactly.
So it's that sort of thing.
It was important to assistdifferent people as well.
So I did that, and I assistedfor about five years.
I do have, some people that have assistedme over the years, and some people assist
for a long time, and some people assista couple times and go off on their own.
Everybody has a different way of doing it.
(11:19):
There's just so much to learn,even as long as I've been doing
this, I still feel that every shootsomething comes up, something new.
You will continue to learn.
I could have continuedassisting and learned.
After five years, it wastime to go off on my own.
I had built up a book at thatpoint and was testing with
(11:40):
photographers and it also gives youthe opportunity to build a network.
That assisting because you're meetingdifferent photographers and you're meeting
different assistants that are looking toeventually go off on their own and maybe
the two of you will do some tests togetherand that could be part of your portfolio.
Eventually you go off onyour own and take the plunge.
Mica (12:02):
Was it scary to go out on your own?
Lisa (12:05):
Oh yeah.
Definitely scary.
There are still some jobs nowthat I'll take and, be a little
more concerned about than others.
I won't take a job that Idon't feel is right for me.
If it's a shoot, say, for instance,I do a wide variety of food styling.
I think if you looked at more of myportfolio online, my website, you probably
(12:28):
see, a lot of things that are verynatural or things that are very painterly.
And then you see myadvertising part of it.
Those are more, for packagingand advertising is a
different type of technique.
So you see a broad cross sectionof, of styles and techniques.
I was contacted recently for a jobfor a high end ice cream company.
(12:51):
While I have done plenty, Idid a whole ice cream cookbook.
But it was all natural.
if you're doing a high end ice creamcompany, like a Haagen Dazs or something,
they're setting up different freezersor different temperatures and it's
a whole chemistry and science to itthat I am not that comfortable with.
So I recommend people thatI know do a lot of that.
(13:15):
You're only as good as your last job, . SoI don't wanna, I don't wanna F it up.
Mica (13:21):
If there's a food stylist assistant listening right now, how
will they know if they're ready tostart taking on jobs on their own?
Lisa (13:30):
If they have started to do some portfolio work with people.
I think that's really important as afirst step because it gives you the
familiarity of, even if it's just atest shoot, you are the lean stylist,
even if it's not for something that'sgoing to turn into anything, even if
it's just for your own personal use.
(13:51):
It gives you the practice andexperience of being a lead food stylist.
That's a good first step.
If you're comfortable with that,then it's time for you to, jump
out of the nest and, wobble on yourlegs a little bit and just do it.
When I have assistants that have beenassisting a while and I think that
they're ready to start doing some oftheir own work, I will often throw
(14:14):
them a job that maybe is not like ahuge high profile job, but something
that I definitely feel they can handleand would be in their wheelhouse.
Like people have different aestheticsensibilities and different styles.
And some people like I'llask the client what it is.
A little bit about the job and I'llthink that would be good for Tiffany
(14:38):
or that one would be good for Cindy.
Mica (14:40):
That's so cool that, that you do that.
The biggest challenge withgetting started is that first job.
Lisa (14:46):
Yeah, and not even test.
These are like real jobs, butmaybe a lower profile job.
You know what I mean?
It's not a, a big, New York Timescookbook or, bestseller types.
It's, it's going to be somethingthat might be a smaller marketing
job or, something like that.
Mica (15:03):
I'm part of a mentorship and one of the things that they said to us at the
very beginning is, what you put into thismentorship is what you'll get out of it.
And I believe that in all aspectsof careers, what you put into your
career is what you'll get out of it.
People can give you the opportunity,but what you do with that
opportunity, that's up to you.
(15:24):
So that's great that you're presentingthese opportunities and letting
your assistants grow and flourishwith, with those opportunities.
Lisa (15:32):
Yeah, I think karma.
It's like really important andI think you have to give back.
I am also the type on shoots where if I'mdoing something and I think it would be
a learning experience for my assistant,I'll pull them over, they might be cooking
behind me, getting the next shot ready orsomething, and I'll say, come take a look.
(15:53):
This is how I'm doing this.
So that they can learn.
Some people are very proprietary.
I want my assistants to be able tolearn as much as they can from me.
I was given that opportunity comingup with, someone like Dolores, who was
incredibly generous with her informationand experience and knowledge in the field.
(16:15):
I feel that it's important to give backand, what comes around goes around.
Mica (16:21):
Yeah, it's definitely important to give back.
Gosh, who was it that said this?
Oh, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Of all people that I'm quoting, Arnold
Lisa (16:30):
Arnold!
Arnold!
Mica (16:32):
Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But there was a littleinterview clip that he did.
He was talking about why he doesn't likefor people to refer to him as self made.
He said that, I'm not a self mademan, I'm here because so many people
gave me opportunities, so manypeople helped me get to where I am.
(16:53):
I became this weightlifting guru becauseof all the people who trained me.
I became the governor ofCalifornia because all the citizens
of California voted for me.
So I'm not a self made person.
I had a lot of help getting where I am.
That's just such a great way to wrapup that idea of like, I got to where
(17:18):
I am because I did it all by myself.
And it's like, no, you didn't.
You had help.
You had people giving youopportunities, and that's okay.
There's nothing absolutelywrong with that.
Just know that when you are in aposition to help the ones coming
after you that you do that.
I want to take it to when you weretalking about your sisters and
(17:40):
that resonated so much with mebecause I have three older brothers.
They just hog everything.
They're also late sleepers.
They'd get up at like12 o'clock, 1 o'clock.
My mom was an early, is an early riser.
She gets up like 5 o'clock in the morning.
And so I get up at 5 o'clockin the morning because I get
(18:01):
to have all my time with her.
Then I'd get to have the TV and thenI'd get to have the whole house.
And then by the time my brothers woke up.
And they come and snatch the remote.
I'm like, I've already watched everythingI wanted to watch, so you guys have fun.
But some of my favorite, yeah, yeah.
I'm an early riser now.
It cracks my friends up.
I'll send them a textmessage at like, 545.
(18:23):
I forget that it's 545.
And,
Lisa (18:26):
I know.
Mica (18:27):
Because like, once my day starts, it started, right?
And they're like looking at thetime, and they're like, why is she
sending me a text message at 5.
45 in the
Lisa (18:34):
I know, I know, I have to hold back the early morning texts myself, especially
if I've had, some coffee, and then it'slike, okay, the texts are flying and maybe
that's not such a good thing if somebodyhas their, their phone next to their bed.
Mica (18:50):
Right, that'll, that'll be a nice little alarm.
They go, the only person who doesreply to my text messages right
at the time I send it is my mom,because she's an early riser too.
One of my favorite memories with my momis, watching her put together, caldo soup.
I love watching, all theseingredients come together.
(19:11):
And at the end, you havethis magnificent soup.
That's what I love about theater, too.
You have all of these differentelements that come together, and
then you have this grand show.
My question for you is what emotionsand nostalgia does food styling evoke
for you personally, and how does thistie back to your childhood memories?
Lisa (19:31):
I do have to say that when I'm styling.
Sometimes I just, I just go away,like I'm creating an art piece.
And I'm thinking about the, the way thelight's going to hit it and the best
camera angle and different texturesI want to put next to each other and
(19:55):
different shapes and different colors.
All of that's going through my mind atthe same time, very quickly, obviously
and then, the props, what, what vessel isit going to go in and what would be best.
Collaborating with theprop stylist and, all that.
When I was young, I was alwayscreating something visually as well.
(20:18):
I would just be in my happy place,whether it was building a tree
house and putting wallpaper up init and hanging a painting in it.
I was always working with my hands.
Always.
Whether it was cooking or creating art,I did a lot of I, I did a lot of drawings
and charcoals and that sort of thing.
(20:41):
Never really did any sculpture,but I, I think of food styling
as these small sculptures thathave a very limited time span
Mica (20:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (20:53):
to a real sculpture.
So it evokes that same feeling that Iwould have when I was creating, when I
was young, whether it was making foodor making artwork, or like I said,
building adrenals, whatever woodworking,I did a lot of woodworking, so it's that
same, I get, I, I feel very content andsatisfied and everything else goes away.
(21:19):
You could be talking to mewhen I'm doing those things.
I don't hear you.
Everything else drops away.
Yeah, you go in the zone, and Ithink it evokes that same sort
of feeling that I felt then.
It's like this primal happiness, feltit as a child, still feel it now.
Not all jobs are like that, butthere is always, even if it's a
(21:40):
job that's insanely antagonizing.
There is still that moment whereI am making it happen and, go
away and have to create it.
I had a, I had a, I had a doozy recently,
Mica (21:57):
What, what was it?
Lisa (21:58):
I'm not gonna say what brand it was, but, it was challenging.
It was very, very challenging.
It was for a commercial and Ineeded to have three drinks.
One was a hot drinkwith a cold foam on top.
So legs of the foam wouldcome down into the drink.
(22:19):
Then there was another drink that hadit was a latte that had candy pieces
on top of it and the latte foam hadto stay up and mounted on top of the
glass, three of these glasses together.
Then the third drink you couldsee through the large clear cup.
I had to use real whipped cream on top.
(22:40):
Not cool whip thatstays for like two days.
I had to use their product, andthe drink itself in that one that
had the real whipped cream onit, had a blended drink itself.
It's separated, like the Oreo part of itseparated from the other part, so you had
like, maybe a two minute lifespan on that.
(23:02):
So getting these three things out there.
They each had a very limited lifespan.
I had to figure out waysto make this happen.
I definitely use all of the real product.
That foam that you saw you saw the reallatte foam on top of it, I did end up
putting something underneath of it tomake it stay there because it would not
(23:23):
stay there long enough to get the realwhipped cream out there and holding up.
And mind you, there are like eightpeople in the other room looking
at this on a screen to approve it.
Mica (23:34):
Oh my gosh, which makes it even more difficult.
Lisa (23:38):
Yeah.
The thing that separated,I used a chemical I just
happened to have it with me.
I, I used it on another job.
I'd never used it before.
This is what I mean.
It's new things all the time.
I thought, you know what, I'mgoing to throw that in my bag.
And I ended up using it and itkept that one that would separate.
still so it didn't separate so I usedthe real product, but I just added
(24:01):
something to it, so it wouldn't separate.
It was this chemical thickener.
I think it's called Thick It Peopleare in the 25 years of doing this but
I was able to use the real whippedcream and get a beautiful top on it
and And, and, and they wanted the, andthey wanted the, the glasses spritzed.
(24:24):
Normally, when you spritz a glass,you do it beforehand, it's ready,
then you fill it with the drink.
And then, because you don't have time tobe spritzing it later, nor do you want to
spritz it on set and get, spray, stickyspray that's, either glycerin and karo
syrup and water or whatever you're using.
All over the place, plus youneed to see it in the light.
(24:45):
So there, it was a lot.
It was a lot.
It was challenging.
I had a very experienced crack assistantwith me that has worked with me for years.
Cindy Gaspari, she's awesome.
We were kicking ass, man.
We did it.
We got it done.
We got it done.
We figured it out, sometimes you haveto put on that, like, chemistry hat.
Mica (25:05):
He's like, I'm a scientist today.
Lisa (25:08):
How am I gonna make this little sculpture thing happen?
Mica (25:14):
The stress I would be feeling in that moment is like, okay, we have
three different drinks, three differenttypes of drinks coming together.
Lisa (25:22):
We both got sick after that, so that's probably why.
Our immune system, it probably tookeverything out of our immune system,
Never a dull moment in the worldof food styling and photography.
Mica (25:37):
Yeah.
Last year I did an ice cream shoot.
Everything was goingfine, and it was great.
The last 30 minutes, our AC, like, itfroze because we had it so cold that
it just went bleh and it just cut off.
So I went to the food stylist andI'm like, Okay, We gotta talk.
(26:00):
We got a situation.
We gotta talk.
Lisa (26:03):
Did she have dry ice?
Mica (26:05):
We did not.
Lisa (26:06):
Okay, because that's really important on an ice cream shoot,
even if it's real ice cream.
It it gets that ball of ice creamreally hard so that when you put it
on set, it will stay a bit longerthan ice cream that's just come a
scoop that you put in the freezer.
For the future, people make these boxes,because dry ice It, it goes down, so
(26:28):
they make these shelves in a, in likea, it could be just a styrofoam cooler
box, and make a shelf in the top, andyou put the dry ice on top, and then
you put the scoops, you just do somescoops, and you put them on a piece
of cardboard or whatever, and yousit them in the bottom of the cooler.
Just for a tip for the next time.
Mica (26:46):
I'm writing this one down and
Lisa (26:48):
It gets it, it gets it nice and hard.
Mica (26:51):
That would have been super useful.
Lisa (26:53):
Have been super useful in that situation.
Mica (26:56):
Cause I'll tell you what, I, I had like flames coming from the bottom of my
shoes cause I was walking around so fast.
Next time.
I do a shoot for ice cream.
Yeah, dry ice.
Lisa (27:11):
Another thing that I do when time is of the essence on a shoot.
Sometimes I'll have the client,as I'm building the plate, as I'm
styling it, I'll have them come upbehind me and take a look at what
I'm looking at on the plate to see ifI'm going in the direction they want.
You know what I mean?
Do you like what you're seeing?
(27:32):
Are there things that you would changebefore we get it out there on set?
I'll have them sit where I'm I wassitting so they can see and I'm looking
like if this is going to be an overhead.
I don't want them standing over to theside of me or the other and looking at it.
I want them to be where youknow the camera angle is.
So they can see firsthand what it'slooking like and maybe, because, what
(27:54):
I'm thinking might be terrific for theshot may not be what they're saying.
And so it's nice to know as you'regoing and to include them in that.
You know, It's a nice thing.
It brings them into it,they're involved in it.
And also you're less likely to havechanges then when you get out on set.
(28:14):
I think they kind of like that too.
Mica (28:16):
Yeah, it definitely gives a more collaborative feel.
This is a project thatwe're all doing together.
That's the kind of vibe thatyou want to have in a shoot.
Lisa (28:27):
I'll tell you, when you're firing on all cylinders, the photographer,
the food stylist, the assistants,the prop stylist, when you guys are
firing it on, on your top, top ofyour game, there's nothing like that.
It's awesome.
You need all of those elements.
You need the food stylists, youneed the prop stylists, you need the
photographer, you need, you need thatwhole collaboration to be it's nice when
(28:51):
you find people that you really like,that you work with, and it works well.
That's a very happy experience.
Mica (28:59):
Oh, yeah, when it's gelling and it's working and you are
just so in sync with one another.
I want to take it to, the sameinterview that you did with Jude
Kempner, you said, in that interviewthat it's important for a food
stylist to have a culinary background.
It isn't crucial for themto have an art background.
(29:21):
It obviously helps to have both, butthey don't have to be a photographer.
I agree with that.
100%.
My question is, what should a foodstylist know about photography?
Lisa (29:32):
The things that are important to know is understand basics, like
understand camera angle because, you'rebuilding a plate based on a camera angle.
If it's something very graphic and youwant to shoot it overhead, you've got
to style it like looking at it overhead.
Or if it's, a burger and it'sgoing to be eye level, you have to
understand that you're, you needto see what the camera is seeing.
(29:57):
So you have to just think aboutwhat the camera is seeing.
It's important to understandum, light a little bit, at least
the direction of the light.
The direction of the lightis going to come this way.
So you probably don't wantto put a big piece of lettuce
coming up in that direction.
That's going to block the light.
So those I think are probably the mostimportant things that come to mind to me.
(30:22):
You may have some other thingsto offer in that respect.
I don't know.
Mica (30:25):
A great conversation that I had with...
Kristina Wolter from Girl Gone Grits.
Shout out to Kristina, where she talkedabout how when she was first getting
into food styling, that she thoughtthat she had to be a photographer
in order to be a food stylist.
And she felt stuck becauseshe didn't enjoy photography.
(30:47):
She just wanted to make the foodlook pretty for the photographers.
If that's something that you enjoymore with making the food look
pretty than the actual taking ofthe picture, I think that's great.
You don't need to know how to set astrobe and set it to whatever, whatever.
Lisa (31:03):
Yeah.
Like I said, I'm not the photographer,but I understand certain aspects of it.
It's so funny when youmention pretty pictures.
My son would always say to me whenI'd leave in the morning, Mommy,
good luck with your pretty pictures.
Mica (31:19):
Ha
Lisa (31:19):
Know, I know.
And, it's almost like a littlegood luck thing because I,
I couldn't leave without it,
Mica (31:26):
it's like the break a leg!
Lisa (31:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Now my
Mica (31:28):
a leg!
Lisa (31:29):
husband says it because Alice isn't around.
Mica (31:32):
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
The good luck with making the pretty
Lisa (31:38):
What we do.
We try to make prettypictures, which is fun, right?
Mica (31:42):
Yes!
This is the kind of careerthat I love and thrive for.
It's just something thatI'm very grateful for.
Lisa (31:49):
Yeah, it's fortunate for you that you, you took that path
because it's fulfilling to you.
For some people, it might not be.
I think my mother knew, in me, all, allof us, my, my siblings and I are all
very different, we're all unique people.
But she said to me, and I don'tknow that she said it to my other
siblings, Do not work in an office.
(32:10):
Do not, take a corporate job.
Mica (32:14):
It's so funny that you say that because the first adult job
I ever had I lasted like ninemonths and gosh, I hated it.
I loved my boss.
I hated the work and I hated the job.
But when I quit the job, he said tome, you don't belong in an office.
(32:34):
You're too creative for an office.
I want to take it to an interviewthat you did with STEM jobs.
You talked about how you assistedDolores Custer for five years.
And I have food styling, like ifyou're a food photographer, you don't
have that book, you need to have it.
It was one of the first booksI bought and still have.
(32:56):
What's a lesson you learnedfrom Dolores that you wish
every food stylist knew today?
Lisa (33:01):
First of all, she was extremely patient.
on set which is, somethingfor me to try to remember.
Probably not as patient as she is.
She had this incredible patience.
It was amazed me.
At that time too, I think you hadphotographers that took longer on shots.
(33:29):
Now, the look is so much more naturaland because everything is obviously,
digital and quick but at that timewhen I was assisting Dolores, they were
still using, film and eight by tensand, not a four by fives and in the
early days of assisting her, I would sayprobably in the very early days because
(33:51):
quickly during that time, it changed.
But I think patience.
Being patient with people becauseyou can't expect everyone to see or
get what you're getting, nor likewhat you you like or you do have the
same aesthetic sensibility as you.
She was you know, incredibly organized.
(34:11):
So organization is such a big importantskill in this field because you don't
want to not have what you need andyou don't want to hold things up.
You're holding up a wholeset and crew and whatever.
So you need to be very organized.
You've got a lot of shots that have a lotof different elements involved in them,
whether it's the food or other things.
(34:32):
She brought a lot of equipment with her.
I don't bring nearly as much as she did.
I think because I thinkit had the adverse effect.
Sometimes when you're raiseda certain way, if your parent
was like very domineering,you tend to be very hands off.
It's like you want to be the opposite.
So she brought everything, shewould bring like 12 sheet trays.
So I never bring any.
(34:53):
I do check with the studioto see if they have them.
If they don't, I'll bring a couple.
But, I try to, I try to be a littlemore minimal in that respect.
I think that aspect of givingback and sharing your knowledge is
(35:14):
something I, I learned from her.
Mica (35:16):
Patience, being organized, paying it forward.
Those are all great things, bigskills especially if organization
is not a strong suit of yours.
Lisa (35:30):
This probably is not for you, I would say.
No, seriously.
Mica (35:34):
What should a food stylist do if that doesn't come naturally
to them, like, being organized?
What are some things that theycan do to develop that skill?
Lisa (35:43):
They have to get in the habit of making lists.
They just have to get in the habit of it.
Look at each shot, break it down.
What am I going to need forthis, and make your list.
I tend to, and I think Dolores usedto do this, make my grocery list and
break them down into the differentplaces I'm going to get the things.
(36:05):
And then within those places, breakit down into, this I'm going to
get in the cheese area, this I'mgoing to get in the, frozen area.
Some people have a, a difficulttime with making lists, I think.
But get in the practice of it.
And it feel real, it feels reallygood to check off lists too, I think.
I think it's very satisfying.
(36:26):
To like check off a whole, list,grocery list, or to do list.
Also the list of, special equipmentitems that you want to bring.
You don't always need to bring ablowtorch or irons that are going
to make grill marks or fake ice orwhatever the special equipment is.
You don't always needto bring those items.
You have to look at the job andsay, what special equipment.
(36:49):
At that last one that I mentioned withthree, I knew I needed to bring a frother.
It's a good thing I brought that thingbecause that baby worked overtime and I
brought extra batteries for that frother.
I asked my assistantsto bring one as well.
But that it's in the list I cannotyou cannot rely on your memory to just
remember to bring everything you need.
It's got to be there because it's oneshow, it's happening, and then it's done.
Mica (37:13):
It's one show, you're done.
And people forget thevalue of pen and paper.
I knew someone in college and she usedto organize everything in index cards.
That's how she just kept everything,like, her, her brain organized.
She would separate her index cards.
She'd have one card that showedexams that she had coming up.
(37:37):
She'd have another card that showedprojects that are going to be due
soon and like she just had everythingorganized in her index cards.
I remember thinking, okay,that's a lot of work.
Lisa (37:48):
Yeah, that seems like a lot.
That seems like OCD to me.
I'm not really that organized in life.
But I do it for my jobs.
I do it for my jobs.
I can't say that I'm thatorganized in my life.
If you look at my, my desk area, it'snot, it's neat, but it's not organized.
It could be a lot more.
(38:09):
It could be a lot more.
Mica (38:11):
I need lists to stay organized.
I need a to do list.
I check my calendar every single day.
Like, I have to do those thingsin order to get things done.
Because if I don't, then I'm justgoing to be flying off to La La Land.
I'm just going to be sitting on myreading chair looking at my neighbors.
Lisa (38:28):
Yeah, the list is a great starting point.
You need it to get from A to Band to get things accomplished.
I don't know if it'saccomplished that you need to get
accomplished, but along the way.
If you can allow the time or the visionto see things and meander a little bit.
That's really nice, too.
If I'm styling something and I go tothe shoot I might have a certain vision
(38:52):
in mind, but I also have to be open tomaybe that's not the best way to do it.
Maybe that's not gonna work.
Maybe I should break thatopen and try something else.
But definitely the listhelps you to get somewhere.
Mica (39:09):
The list will just make sure that if you decide to try something
different, try something new, thatyou have the tools that you need
to be able to try that new thing.
Lisa (39:22):
Have the options, yeah.
Mica (39:23):
So I have one last question.
You wrote an article titledMy Life as a Food Stylist.
Your article reminded me of thisTiktok video that I watched recently.
The video was this food stylist shewas creating a cheese slice pull,
and so she's putting like littlechunks of mozzarella string cheese
(39:47):
and then melting the cheese so youpull it and then that mozzarella,
like that gooey, ooey awesomeness.
A creator did a stitch to that videoand he talked about how food styling is
misleading the customer into thinkingthat they're going to get this when
they're really not going to get it.
(40:07):
And the comments did not pass the vibe.
I was like, okay, that is notat all what a food stylist does.
When people ask me about what I do forfood photography, the main question
they want to know is like, what areall the crazy things that you do?
So what's one thing that you wish thegeneral public knew about food styling?
Lisa (40:25):
The idea of Oh all the tricks that you do for food styling.
You're a food stylist.
I've been hearing that for 25 years frompeople that really don't have that much
knowledge of it and they find out whatI do but that's a very dated concept.
The trend has been to shoot foodnaturally for a very long time now.
(40:46):
There are things that you will do tomake food because it's not maybe coming
right out of the oven and being shot.
You might have to use aheat gun or something.
You want to elicit appetite,appeal, a sense of smell and a
sense of taste in a photograph.
So you might spritz a salad witha little water so it looks fresh
(41:09):
and elicits that in a photo.
There are things that youcan do, but largely it's real
food and it's very natural.
And even in commercial workand advertising, you are using
the product and the real food.
Mica (41:24):
It's just so misunderstood about what we do, what food stylists
do, what food photographers do.
We're not, doing any trickery or foolery.
Lisa (41:33):
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
You're going to use, you'regoing to use the real ice cream.
There are recipes forfake ice cream out there.
And maybe if they've got a cone of icecream in the background that is not the
product and they want it just to be inthe background sitting there for a while,
maybe I'll make them some fake ice creamand they can throw that back there.
But it certainly is not goingto be the feature of the shot.
Mica (41:56):
In the video, the marketer was referencing a lawsuit, a man is suing
Taco Bell for false advertisement.
He said that the taco that hereceived did not look anything
like the taco in the picture.
And I'm like, okay once we've done theshoot, the rest is up to the client.
(42:17):
We're not false advertising.
That's them.
We're not the ones getting sued.
They're getting sued.
So if Taco Bell is not makingtheir tacos the way that the
picture looks, that's on Taco Bell.
We're not misleading anybody.
Taco Bell is.
Lisa (42:32):
Yeah, it's like a clothing brand showing an advertisement
of clothes on a, on a model.
They're going to make themlook as best as they can.
That does not mean it's going to look thatway when you buy them and put them on.
Mica (42:45):
Exactly, exactly.
Lisa (42:47):
There is a truth in advertising clause.
We are required to use the product in theadvertisement and we can't over promise.
If it typically shows...
You know say it's a taco and a third ofit is black beans and a third of it is
ground meat and a third of it is cheese.
We have to represent that.
(43:07):
We can't over promise.
So it should be that yes, will itlook more finessed and prettier
and more appetite appealing thanyou know a taco that you know
got shoved into a bag and threw awindow and into a car and opened up.
Yeah, probably.
Honestly, really that's ridiculous.
Mica (43:28):
What are you expecting?
It's Taco Bell.
Lisa (43:31):
Oh, that's very I know.
Really?
Oh my god.
I do have to say when I very firststarted out and I was assisting one
job that I had to assist Doloreson was a commercial for McDonald's.
I lasted one day and I said,I can't do this anymore.
This is not what I want to do.
They brought another assistant inbut there were lots of assistants
(43:54):
on the job, but everybody had a job.
One person was picking fat out of meat.
I was stuck in a tiny room withboxes and boxes of buns, just gluing
sesame seeds on buns all day long.
I did that for eight hours, finding theright color, shape bun, and gluing ses.
And I, I could not dothat for another day.
(44:16):
I did it one day and I said, you knowwhat, this is not what I want to do.
I didn't really go that commercial route.
First of all, I'm not a bigfast food person to begin with.
And did I want to necessarily sell that?
Not really, to America, because Ithink it's one of the, the demises
of the American society, honestly.
And we've spread it tothe rest of the world now.
Mica (44:38):
So I have absolutely very one last question for you.
What is something you hope that thelisteners learn from your interview today?
Lisa (44:48):
I don't know.
Gosh.
Really, I think I said everything I haveto say about food styling , but I just,
I, I just hope that they, understandhow important it is to be open and talk
to other, peers in the field about whatwe all do, and share that information.
(45:09):
That's why I'm here today talking to you.
I'm so glad that we hadthe opportunity to meet.
This has been, I, I've soenjoyed talking to you.
It's been great.
Yeah.
But that's the big takeaway is,is sharing the information and
getting to know other people.
Mica (45:26):
Yes.
I enjoyed everything aboutthis conversation, so thank
you for being on the show.
Lisa (45:31):
This has been a beautiful fun break in my day.
Welcome to the 37th episode of the Savory Shot.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
Food photographer, podcasthost, Harry Potter Expert.
I want to start the show off bysaying thanks for showing up again.
(00:22):
And if this is your first time joiningus, welcome to the Hot Mess Express.
Pull up a seat, grab some coffee.
We are in for a bangin good time.
I hope everyone had a bombfantastic Thanksgiving holiday.
If you eat turkey, I hope youstuffed yourself silly with turkey.
(00:44):
If you're a ham person, like me.
I hope you gobbled up all that ham.
And if you are vegan vegetarian,I hope you gobbled that too.
I was trying to find thevegan word for gobble.
I guess it would be the same.
Wouldn't it be the same?
Ignore me, y'all.
I'm, I'm still, yeah.
(01:06):
Moving on.
Well, I had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
It was one of thoseHallmark type of holidays.
I mean, the whole family was around.
It was a lot of fun.
I ate a lot of ham.
(01:28):
I don't know about y'all, but my threestaple things that I have to eat every
Thanksgiving are stuffing, ham, and gravy.
I don't eat anything else.
I like mac and cheese,but not on Thanksgiving.
I don't need no green bean casserole.
Pass it on to the next.
(01:49):
Thank you very much.
I just gorge myself on ham,stuffing, and turkey gravy.
So, pretty simple.
I want to hear about your holiday.
What did you do?
Where did you go?
Did you travel?
Come tell me.
Let's have a chat.
I have one little favor to ask you guys.
(02:11):
If you're in the giving spirit,would you head over to Apple Podcasts
and leave a review for the show?
It's been such a long time sincewe got a review, and so I'd love
to hear some, some feedback.
Be it positive or critical, butreally just positive because,
(02:33):
you know, who wants to feel sad?
Gosh, you guys, I missed you so much.
I missed you so much.
I'm excited to dive into this episode.
This next guest is absolutely amazing.
I will not keep youguys waiting any longer.
(02:54):
Without further ado, drumroll, do do do dodo do do do, I introduce our next guest.
Lisa Homa.
Y'all, Lisa has been...
A food stylist for 25 years.
Incredible.
She apprenticed under the amazingfood stylist Dolores Custer.
(03:17):
Rest in peace.
If you are a food photographer,food stylist, you probably have
the book called Food Styling.
Well, Lisa assisted her for fiveyears before striking out on her own.
Lisa has a knack for turning simpleingredients into amazing visual treats.
(03:39):
She's got an incredible eyefor the finer details, and she
really gets the beauty of food.
Y'all, Lisa's been everywhere.
She's got a client listthat is ten years long.
I mean, she's done work for Absolute,Hennessey, KitchenAid, Hellman's.
She's been featured on Food TVNetwork, Good Morning America,
(04:02):
Live with Regis and Kelly.
She's been everywhere.
You've seen her work in Bon Appetit,Cooking Light, Country Living, Esquire,
Every Day with Rachel Ray, Gourmet Live.
She's done cookbook after cookbook aftercookbook and one of her cookbooks that
she worked on was Antoni in the Kitchen.
A New York Times bestseller.
(04:24):
So I think it's safe to saythat homegirl knows her stuff.
She took time out of her amazing and busyschedule to chat with us and to talk about
her experiences as a, as a food stylist.
We had so much fun in this interview.
And we talked about things that thegeneral public doesn't understand about
(04:48):
food styling and what food stylists do.
We talked about the lessons thatLisa learned from her mentor Dolores.
But y'all, I won't give awaythe whole show because then what
would be the point of listening?
Grab your coffee, grab your martini,it's five o'clock somewhere.
(05:08):
Kick back and...
Let's start the show.
(05:49):
Lisa, thank you so much for comingon the show for being a guest.
I can already tell that we aregonna have such a great time.
We were talking for 20 30 minutesbefore we started recording and I was
just thinking oh my god I could talkto you forever and ever and ever a
whole afternoon about Philadelphia,about just life, I could do it all.
(06:12):
So thank you so much forbeing on the show and welcome.
Lisa (06:16):
Sure, thank you for inviting me, Mica.
Happy to be here.
Mica (06:20):
So I have like a whole meat and potato of questions
and I'm going to dive on in.
Lisa (06:26):
Dive in.
Mica (06:27):
Let's do it.
We're gonna dive in.
You mentioned in an interview,and you mentioned earlier in your
interview with Creative Confidential,which, go listen to that episode.
That was, like, such a great interview.
And you mentioned that you went toculinary school to become a food stylist.
Take me back to your first day in class.
(06:49):
What do you remember about that day?
Lisa (06:52):
One of the things that I remember, I had the opportunity
to have a phenomenal instructor.
The school was, it's now ICE I C Ein Manhattan, which is, I don't know,
the Institute of Culinary somethingor other, but it was, at that
time, it was Peter Kump's New Yorkcooking school before it became ICE.
Jim Peterson was my instructor,and he has written, the Bible on
(07:16):
sauces, on soups, on vegetables.
He's amazing, so I was reallylucky to have him, but he was
very good, but very demanding.
And I just remember being incrediblyexcited thinking I am in my place.
I was doing a night school programbecause I'm still working in my
cushy corporate job and thinking,wow, I've cooked my entire life.
(07:41):
I thought I knew how to cook, butthere were so many techniques because
we were learning French techniques.
I thought I knew how to cookuntil I got to cooking school.
And I, highly recommend it for anyonethat is going to pursue the field.
My mentor and the woman that Iassisted for five years, Dolores
(08:01):
Custer, who was like the GOAT.
I assisted her for five years.
She was, she was like thistall Scandinavian blonde.
And I'm this short littleethnic, dark haired thing.
We were great together, but we, we,we became very close friends too.
Mica (08:18):
So you you thought you knew how to cook until you got there.
You mentioned something earlierabout when you started culinary
school, you knew for a fact that foodstyling was what you wanted to do.
How did you come to that choice?
Lisa (08:36):
I was in a, I worked in a visual field and I was, the aesthetic and
visuals were always very important to art.
Art was very important to me.
I studied art history for a whileuntil I went through the advertising,
marketing, and of, of school, butand work, but I always loved to cook.
I was one of one of six kids.
I was the one that cooked withmy mother who was phenomenal and
(09:00):
her mother was a phenomenal cook.
I was the one and you know wouldlike shoo my other sisters out of
the kitchen because they just wantedto play and have fun in the kitchen
and I was very serious about it.
I always was.
Even while I pursued other jobs,I always did something in food.
Whether it was catering friendsweddings or whatever, but I
(09:20):
always did something in food.
So when I moved to New York City, Itook a job in publishing in Manhattan
and I discovered there was such athing as food styling for photography.
And I thought, boy, wouldn't it begreat to combine the visual and culinary
skills because that's what it is.
It's a complete combinationof visual and culinary.
So I looked up, someone that wasteaching courses in this, there aren't
(09:43):
a lot of people, but Dolores Custerwas teaching the course up at the CIA,
the Culinary Institute in Hyde Park.
It was just a week long intensivecourse, so I took it, and she
felt that I would be good at it.
But she said, you really should goback to culinary school if you want
to be taken seriously in this field.
(10:03):
In Manhattan, there's a lot of competitionand you need to be good at what you're
doing or you're not going to succeed.
So, that's what I did.
I still had my corporate job.
They took it down to three days aweek, still giving my full time salary.
And eventually I just had to cutthe cord and start assisting.
I couldn't assist untilI did cut that cord.
(10:24):
Dolores was the main person I assisted,but I did assist other people as
well because I, everybody does.
This trade, everybody has differenttechniques and styles and different
types of clients that they work with,whether they're doing more commercials
or more cookbooks or, everybody has adifferent aesthetic and sensibility.
(10:45):
Like, I could look at, I, I could lookat magazines at that time and tell who
the food stylist was, that kind of thing
Mica (10:53):
It's like the photographer and their style and you look at it
and you're like, that's a so and so.
I already know.
Lisa (10:58):
Exactly.
So it's that sort of thing.
It was important to assistdifferent people as well.
So I did that, and I assistedfor about five years.
I do have, some people that have assistedme over the years, and some people assist
for a long time, and some people assista couple times and go off on their own.
Everybody has a different way of doing it.
(11:19):
There's just so much to learn,even as long as I've been doing
this, I still feel that every shootsomething comes up, something new.
You will continue to learn.
I could have continuedassisting and learned.
After five years, it wastime to go off on my own.
I had built up a book at thatpoint and was testing with
(11:40):
photographers and it also gives youthe opportunity to build a network.
That assisting because you're meetingdifferent photographers and you're meeting
different assistants that are looking toeventually go off on their own and maybe
the two of you will do some tests togetherand that could be part of your portfolio.
Eventually you go off onyour own and take the plunge.
Mica (12:02):
Was it scary to go out on your own?
Lisa (12:05):
Oh yeah.
Definitely scary.
There are still some jobs nowthat I'll take and, be a little
more concerned about than others.
I won't take a job that Idon't feel is right for me.
If it's a shoot, say, for instance,I do a wide variety of food styling.
I think if you looked at more of myportfolio online, my website, you probably
(12:28):
see, a lot of things that are verynatural or things that are very painterly.
And then you see myadvertising part of it.
Those are more, for packagingand advertising is a
different type of technique.
So you see a broad cross sectionof, of styles and techniques.
I was contacted recently for a jobfor a high end ice cream company.
(12:51):
While I have done plenty, Idid a whole ice cream cookbook.
But it was all natural.
if you're doing a high end ice creamcompany, like a Haagen Dazs or something,
they're setting up different freezersor different temperatures and it's
a whole chemistry and science to itthat I am not that comfortable with.
So I recommend people thatI know do a lot of that.
(13:15):
You're only as good as your last job, . SoI don't wanna, I don't wanna F it up.
Mica (13:21):
If there's a food stylist assistant listening right now, how
will they know if they're ready tostart taking on jobs on their own?
Lisa (13:30):
If they have started to do some portfolio work with people.
I think that's really important as afirst step because it gives you the
familiarity of, even if it's just atest shoot, you are the lean stylist,
even if it's not for something that'sgoing to turn into anything, even if
it's just for your own personal use.
(13:51):
It gives you the practice andexperience of being a lead food stylist.
That's a good first step.
If you're comfortable with that,then it's time for you to, jump
out of the nest and, wobble on yourlegs a little bit and just do it.
When I have assistants that have beenassisting a while and I think that
they're ready to start doing some oftheir own work, I will often throw
(14:14):
them a job that maybe is not like ahuge high profile job, but something
that I definitely feel they can handleand would be in their wheelhouse.
Like people have different aestheticsensibilities and different styles.
And some people like I'llask the client what it is.
A little bit about the job and I'llthink that would be good for Tiffany
(14:38):
or that one would be good for Cindy.
Mica (14:40):
That's so cool that, that you do that.
The biggest challenge withgetting started is that first job.
Lisa (14:46):
Yeah, and not even test.
These are like real jobs, butmaybe a lower profile job.
You know what I mean?
It's not a, a big, New York Timescookbook or, bestseller types.
It's, it's going to be somethingthat might be a smaller marketing
job or, something like that.
Mica (15:03):
I'm part of a mentorship and one of the things that they said to us at the
very beginning is, what you put into thismentorship is what you'll get out of it.
And I believe that in all aspectsof careers, what you put into your
career is what you'll get out of it.
People can give you the opportunity,but what you do with that
opportunity, that's up to you.
(15:24):
So that's great that you're presentingthese opportunities and letting
your assistants grow and flourishwith, with those opportunities.
Lisa (15:32):
Yeah, I think karma.
It's like really important andI think you have to give back.
I am also the type on shoots where if I'mdoing something and I think it would be
a learning experience for my assistant,I'll pull them over, they might be cooking
behind me, getting the next shot ready orsomething, and I'll say, come take a look.
(15:53):
This is how I'm doing this.
So that they can learn.
Some people are very proprietary.
I want my assistants to be able tolearn as much as they can from me.
I was given that opportunity comingup with, someone like Dolores, who was
incredibly generous with her informationand experience and knowledge in the field.
(16:15):
I feel that it's important to give backand, what comes around goes around.
Mica (16:21):
Yeah, it's definitely important to give back.
Gosh, who was it that said this?
Oh, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Of all people that I'm quoting, Arnold
Lisa (16:30):
Arnold!
Arnold!
Mica (16:32):
Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But there was a littleinterview clip that he did.
He was talking about why he doesn't likefor people to refer to him as self made.
He said that, I'm not a self mademan, I'm here because so many people
gave me opportunities, so manypeople helped me get to where I am.
(16:53):
I became this weightlifting guru becauseof all the people who trained me.
I became the governor ofCalifornia because all the citizens
of California voted for me.
So I'm not a self made person.
I had a lot of help getting where I am.
That's just such a great way to wrapup that idea of like, I got to where
(17:18):
I am because I did it all by myself.
And it's like, no, you didn't.
You had help.
You had people giving youopportunities, and that's okay.
There's nothing absolutelywrong with that.
Just know that when you are in aposition to help the ones coming
after you that you do that.
I want to take it to when you weretalking about your sisters and
(17:40):
that resonated so much with mebecause I have three older brothers.
They just hog everything.
They're also late sleepers.
They'd get up at like12 o'clock, 1 o'clock.
My mom was an early, is an early riser.
She gets up like 5 o'clock in the morning.
And so I get up at 5 o'clockin the morning because I get
(18:01):
to have all my time with her.
Then I'd get to have the TV and thenI'd get to have the whole house.
And then by the time my brothers woke up.
And they come and snatch the remote.
I'm like, I've already watched everythingI wanted to watch, so you guys have fun.
But some of my favorite, yeah, yeah.
I'm an early riser now.
It cracks my friends up.
I'll send them a textmessage at like, 545.
(18:23):
I forget that it's 545.
And,
Lisa (18:26):
I know.
Mica (18:27):
Because like, once my day starts, it started, right?
And they're like looking at thetime, and they're like, why is she
sending me a text message at 5.
45 in the
Lisa (18:34):
I know, I know, I have to hold back the early morning texts myself, especially
if I've had, some coffee, and then it'slike, okay, the texts are flying and maybe
that's not such a good thing if somebodyhas their, their phone next to their bed.
Mica (18:50):
Right, that'll, that'll be a nice little alarm.
They go, the only person who doesreply to my text messages right
at the time I send it is my mom,because she's an early riser too.
One of my favorite memories with my momis, watching her put together, caldo soup.
I love watching, all theseingredients come together.
(19:11):
And at the end, you havethis magnificent soup.
That's what I love about theater, too.
You have all of these differentelements that come together, and
then you have this grand show.
My question for you is what emotionsand nostalgia does food styling evoke
for you personally, and how does thistie back to your childhood memories?
Lisa (19:31):
I do have to say that when I'm styling.
Sometimes I just, I just go away,like I'm creating an art piece.
And I'm thinking about the, the way thelight's going to hit it and the best
camera angle and different texturesI want to put next to each other and
(19:55):
different shapes and different colors.
All of that's going through my mind atthe same time, very quickly, obviously
and then, the props, what, what vessel isit going to go in and what would be best.
Collaborating with theprop stylist and, all that.
When I was young, I was alwayscreating something visually as well.
(20:18):
I would just be in my happy place,whether it was building a tree
house and putting wallpaper up init and hanging a painting in it.
I was always working with my hands.
Always.
Whether it was cooking or creating art,I did a lot of I, I did a lot of drawings
and charcoals and that sort of thing.
(20:41):
Never really did any sculpture,but I, I think of food styling
as these small sculptures thathave a very limited time span
Mica (20:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lisa (20:53):
to a real sculpture.
So it evokes that same feeling that Iwould have when I was creating, when I
was young, whether it was making foodor making artwork, or like I said,
building adrenals, whatever woodworking,I did a lot of woodworking, so it's that
same, I get, I, I feel very content andsatisfied and everything else goes away.
(21:19):
You could be talking to mewhen I'm doing those things.
I don't hear you.
Everything else drops away.
Yeah, you go in the zone, and Ithink it evokes that same sort
of feeling that I felt then.
It's like this primal happiness, feltit as a child, still feel it now.
Not all jobs are like that, butthere is always, even if it's a
(21:40):
job that's insanely antagonizing.
There is still that moment whereI am making it happen and, go
away and have to create it.
I had a, I had a, I had a doozy recently,
Mica (21:57):
What, what was it?
Lisa (21:58):
I'm not gonna say what brand it was, but, it was challenging.
It was very, very challenging.
It was for a commercial and Ineeded to have three drinks.
One was a hot drinkwith a cold foam on top.
So legs of the foam wouldcome down into the drink.
(22:19):
Then there was another drink that hadit was a latte that had candy pieces
on top of it and the latte foam hadto stay up and mounted on top of the
glass, three of these glasses together.
Then the third drink you couldsee through the large clear cup.
I had to use real whipped cream on top.
(22:40):
Not cool whip thatstays for like two days.
I had to use their product, andthe drink itself in that one that
had the real whipped cream onit, had a blended drink itself.
It's separated, like the Oreo part of itseparated from the other part, so you had
like, maybe a two minute lifespan on that.
(23:02):
So getting these three things out there.
They each had a very limited lifespan.
I had to figure out waysto make this happen.
I definitely use all of the real product.
That foam that you saw you saw the reallatte foam on top of it, I did end up
putting something underneath of it tomake it stay there because it would not
(23:23):
stay there long enough to get the realwhipped cream out there and holding up.
And mind you, there are like eightpeople in the other room looking
at this on a screen to approve it.
Mica (23:34):
Oh my gosh, which makes it even more difficult.
Lisa (23:38):
Yeah.
The thing that separated,I used a chemical I just
happened to have it with me.
I, I used it on another job.
I'd never used it before.
This is what I mean.
It's new things all the time.
I thought, you know what, I'mgoing to throw that in my bag.
And I ended up using it and itkept that one that would separate.
still so it didn't separate so I usedthe real product, but I just added
(24:01):
something to it, so it wouldn't separate.
It was this chemical thickener.
I think it's called Thick It Peopleare in the 25 years of doing this but
I was able to use the real whippedcream and get a beautiful top on it
and And, and, and they wanted the, andthey wanted the, the glasses spritzed.
(24:24):
Normally, when you spritz a glass,you do it beforehand, it's ready,
then you fill it with the drink.
And then, because you don't have time tobe spritzing it later, nor do you want to
spritz it on set and get, spray, stickyspray that's, either glycerin and karo
syrup and water or whatever you're using.
All over the place, plus youneed to see it in the light.
(24:45):
So there, it was a lot.
It was a lot.
It was challenging.
I had a very experienced crack assistantwith me that has worked with me for years.
Cindy Gaspari, she's awesome.
We were kicking ass, man.
We did it.
We got it done.
We got it done.
We figured it out, sometimes you haveto put on that, like, chemistry hat.
Mica (25:05):
He's like, I'm a scientist today.
Lisa (25:08):
How am I gonna make this little sculpture thing happen?
Mica (25:14):
The stress I would be feeling in that moment is like, okay, we have
three different drinks, three differenttypes of drinks coming together.
Lisa (25:22):
We both got sick after that, so that's probably why.
Our immune system, it probably tookeverything out of our immune system,
Never a dull moment in the worldof food styling and photography.
Mica (25:37):
Yeah.
Last year I did an ice cream shoot.
Everything was goingfine, and it was great.
The last 30 minutes, our AC, like, itfroze because we had it so cold that
it just went bleh and it just cut off.
So I went to the food stylist andI'm like, Okay, We gotta talk.
(26:00):
We got a situation.
We gotta talk.
Lisa (26:03):
Did she have dry ice?
Mica (26:05):
We did not.
Lisa (26:06):
Okay, because that's really important on an ice cream shoot,
even if it's real ice cream.
It it gets that ball of ice creamreally hard so that when you put it
on set, it will stay a bit longerthan ice cream that's just come a
scoop that you put in the freezer.
For the future, people make these boxes,because dry ice It, it goes down, so
(26:28):
they make these shelves in a, in likea, it could be just a styrofoam cooler
box, and make a shelf in the top, andyou put the dry ice on top, and then
you put the scoops, you just do somescoops, and you put them on a piece
of cardboard or whatever, and yousit them in the bottom of the cooler.
Just for a tip for the next time.
Mica (26:46):
I'm writing this one down and
Lisa (26:48):
It gets it, it gets it nice and hard.
Mica (26:51):
That would have been super useful.
Lisa (26:53):
Have been super useful in that situation.
Mica (26:56):
Cause I'll tell you what, I, I had like flames coming from the bottom of my
shoes cause I was walking around so fast.
Next time.
I do a shoot for ice cream.
Yeah, dry ice.
Lisa (27:11):
Another thing that I do when time is of the essence on a shoot.
Sometimes I'll have the client,as I'm building the plate, as I'm
styling it, I'll have them come upbehind me and take a look at what
I'm looking at on the plate to see ifI'm going in the direction they want.
You know what I mean?
Do you like what you're seeing?
(27:32):
Are there things that you would changebefore we get it out there on set?
I'll have them sit where I'm I wassitting so they can see and I'm looking
like if this is going to be an overhead.
I don't want them standing over to theside of me or the other and looking at it.
I want them to be where youknow the camera angle is.
So they can see firsthand what it'slooking like and maybe, because, what
(27:54):
I'm thinking might be terrific for theshot may not be what they're saying.
And so it's nice to know as you'regoing and to include them in that.
You know, It's a nice thing.
It brings them into it,they're involved in it.
And also you're less likely to havechanges then when you get out on set.
(28:14):
I think they kind of like that too.
Mica (28:16):
Yeah, it definitely gives a more collaborative feel.
This is a project thatwe're all doing together.
That's the kind of vibe thatyou want to have in a shoot.
Lisa (28:27):
I'll tell you, when you're firing on all cylinders, the photographer,
the food stylist, the assistants,the prop stylist, when you guys are
firing it on, on your top, top ofyour game, there's nothing like that.
It's awesome.
You need all of those elements.
You need the food stylists, youneed the prop stylists, you need the
photographer, you need, you need thatwhole collaboration to be it's nice when
(28:51):
you find people that you really like,that you work with, and it works well.
That's a very happy experience.
Mica (28:59):
Oh, yeah, when it's gelling and it's working and you are
just so in sync with one another.
I want to take it to, the sameinterview that you did with Jude
Kempner, you said, in that interviewthat it's important for a food
stylist to have a culinary background.
It isn't crucial for themto have an art background.
(29:21):
It obviously helps to have both, butthey don't have to be a photographer.
I agree with that.
100%.
My question is, what should a foodstylist know about photography?
Lisa (29:32):
The things that are important to know is understand basics, like
understand camera angle because, you'rebuilding a plate based on a camera angle.
If it's something very graphic and youwant to shoot it overhead, you've got
to style it like looking at it overhead.
Or if it's, a burger and it'sgoing to be eye level, you have to
understand that you're, you needto see what the camera is seeing.
(29:57):
So you have to just think aboutwhat the camera is seeing.
It's important to understandum, light a little bit, at least
the direction of the light.
The direction of the lightis going to come this way.
So you probably don't wantto put a big piece of lettuce
coming up in that direction.
That's going to block the light.
So those I think are probably the mostimportant things that come to mind to me.
(30:22):
You may have some other thingsto offer in that respect.
I don't know.
Mica (30:25):
A great conversation that I had with...
Kristina Wolter from Girl Gone Grits.
Shout out to Kristina, where she talkedabout how when she was first getting
into food styling, that she thoughtthat she had to be a photographer
in order to be a food stylist.
And she felt stuck becauseshe didn't enjoy photography.
(30:47):
She just wanted to make the foodlook pretty for the photographers.
If that's something that you enjoymore with making the food look
pretty than the actual taking ofthe picture, I think that's great.
You don't need to know how to set astrobe and set it to whatever, whatever.
Lisa (31:03):
Yeah.
Like I said, I'm not the photographer,but I understand certain aspects of it.
It's so funny when youmention pretty pictures.
My son would always say to me whenI'd leave in the morning, Mommy,
good luck with your pretty pictures.
Mica (31:19):
Ha
Lisa (31:19):
Know, I know.
And, it's almost like a littlegood luck thing because I,
I couldn't leave without it,
Mica (31:26):
it's like the break a leg!
Lisa (31:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Now my
Mica (31:28):
a leg!
Lisa (31:29):
husband says it because Alice isn't around.
Mica (31:32):
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
The good luck with making the pretty
Lisa (31:38):
What we do.
We try to make prettypictures, which is fun, right?
Mica (31:42):
Yes!
This is the kind of careerthat I love and thrive for.
It's just something thatI'm very grateful for.
Lisa (31:49):
Yeah, it's fortunate for you that you, you took that path
because it's fulfilling to you.
For some people, it might not be.
I think my mother knew, in me, all, allof us, my, my siblings and I are all
very different, we're all unique people.
But she said to me, and I don'tknow that she said it to my other
siblings, Do not work in an office.
(32:10):
Do not, take a corporate job.
Mica (32:14):
It's so funny that you say that because the first adult job
I ever had I lasted like ninemonths and gosh, I hated it.
I loved my boss.
I hated the work and I hated the job.
But when I quit the job, he said tome, you don't belong in an office.
(32:34):
You're too creative for an office.
I want to take it to an interviewthat you did with STEM jobs.
You talked about how you assistedDolores Custer for five years.
And I have food styling, like ifyou're a food photographer, you don't
have that book, you need to have it.
It was one of the first booksI bought and still have.
(32:56):
What's a lesson you learnedfrom Dolores that you wish
every food stylist knew today?
Lisa (33:01):
First of all, she was extremely patient.
on set which is, somethingfor me to try to remember.
Probably not as patient as she is.
She had this incredible patience.
It was amazed me.
At that time too, I think you hadphotographers that took longer on shots.
(33:29):
Now, the look is so much more naturaland because everything is obviously,
digital and quick but at that timewhen I was assisting Dolores, they were
still using, film and eight by tensand, not a four by fives and in the
early days of assisting her, I would sayprobably in the very early days because
(33:51):
quickly during that time, it changed.
But I think patience.
Being patient with people becauseyou can't expect everyone to see or
get what you're getting, nor likewhat you you like or you do have the
same aesthetic sensibility as you.
She was you know, incredibly organized.
(34:11):
So organization is such a big importantskill in this field because you don't
want to not have what you need andyou don't want to hold things up.
You're holding up a wholeset and crew and whatever.
So you need to be very organized.
You've got a lot of shots that have a lotof different elements involved in them,
whether it's the food or other things.
(34:32):
She brought a lot of equipment with her.
I don't bring nearly as much as she did.
I think because I thinkit had the adverse effect.
Sometimes when you're raiseda certain way, if your parent
was like very domineering,you tend to be very hands off.
It's like you want to be the opposite.
So she brought everything, shewould bring like 12 sheet trays.
So I never bring any.
(34:53):
I do check with the studioto see if they have them.
If they don't, I'll bring a couple.
But, I try to, I try to be a littlemore minimal in that respect.
I think that aspect of givingback and sharing your knowledge is
(35:14):
something I, I learned from her.
Mica (35:16):
Patience, being organized, paying it forward.
Those are all great things, bigskills especially if organization
is not a strong suit of yours.
Lisa (35:30):
This probably is not for you, I would say.
No, seriously.
Mica (35:34):
What should a food stylist do if that doesn't come naturally
to them, like, being organized?
What are some things that theycan do to develop that skill?
Lisa (35:43):
They have to get in the habit of making lists.
They just have to get in the habit of it.
Look at each shot, break it down.
What am I going to need forthis, and make your list.
I tend to, and I think Dolores usedto do this, make my grocery list and
break them down into the differentplaces I'm going to get the things.
(36:05):
And then within those places, breakit down into, this I'm going to
get in the cheese area, this I'mgoing to get in the, frozen area.
Some people have a, a difficulttime with making lists, I think.
But get in the practice of it.
And it feel real, it feels reallygood to check off lists too, I think.
I think it's very satisfying.
(36:26):
To like check off a whole, list,grocery list, or to do list.
Also the list of, special equipmentitems that you want to bring.
You don't always need to bring ablowtorch or irons that are going
to make grill marks or fake ice orwhatever the special equipment is.
You don't always needto bring those items.
You have to look at the job andsay, what special equipment.
(36:49):
At that last one that I mentioned withthree, I knew I needed to bring a frother.
It's a good thing I brought that thingbecause that baby worked overtime and I
brought extra batteries for that frother.
I asked my assistantsto bring one as well.
But that it's in the list I cannotyou cannot rely on your memory to just
remember to bring everything you need.
It's got to be there because it's oneshow, it's happening, and then it's done.
Mica (37:13):
It's one show, you're done.
And people forget thevalue of pen and paper.
I knew someone in college and she usedto organize everything in index cards.
That's how she just kept everything,like, her, her brain organized.
She would separate her index cards.
She'd have one card that showedexams that she had coming up.
(37:37):
She'd have another card that showedprojects that are going to be due
soon and like she just had everythingorganized in her index cards.
I remember thinking, okay,that's a lot of work.
Lisa (37:48):
Yeah, that seems like a lot.
That seems like OCD to me.
I'm not really that organized in life.
But I do it for my jobs.
I do it for my jobs.
I can't say that I'm thatorganized in my life.
If you look at my, my desk area, it'snot, it's neat, but it's not organized.
It could be a lot more.
(38:09):
It could be a lot more.
Mica (38:11):
I need lists to stay organized.
I need a to do list.
I check my calendar every single day.
Like, I have to do those thingsin order to get things done.
Because if I don't, then I'm justgoing to be flying off to La La Land.
I'm just going to be sitting on myreading chair looking at my neighbors.
Lisa (38:28):
Yeah, the list is a great starting point.
You need it to get from A to Band to get things accomplished.
I don't know if it'saccomplished that you need to get
accomplished, but along the way.
If you can allow the time or the visionto see things and meander a little bit.
That's really nice, too.
If I'm styling something and I go tothe shoot I might have a certain vision
(38:52):
in mind, but I also have to be open tomaybe that's not the best way to do it.
Maybe that's not gonna work.
Maybe I should break thatopen and try something else.
But definitely the listhelps you to get somewhere.
Mica (39:09):
The list will just make sure that if you decide to try something
different, try something new, thatyou have the tools that you need
to be able to try that new thing.
Lisa (39:22):
Have the options, yeah.
Mica (39:23):
So I have one last question.
You wrote an article titledMy Life as a Food Stylist.
Your article reminded me of thisTiktok video that I watched recently.
The video was this food stylist shewas creating a cheese slice pull,
and so she's putting like littlechunks of mozzarella string cheese
(39:47):
and then melting the cheese so youpull it and then that mozzarella,
like that gooey, ooey awesomeness.
A creator did a stitch to that videoand he talked about how food styling is
misleading the customer into thinkingthat they're going to get this when
they're really not going to get it.
(40:07):
And the comments did not pass the vibe.
I was like, okay, that is notat all what a food stylist does.
When people ask me about what I do forfood photography, the main question
they want to know is like, what areall the crazy things that you do?
So what's one thing that you wish thegeneral public knew about food styling?
Lisa (40:25):
The idea of Oh all the tricks that you do for food styling.
You're a food stylist.
I've been hearing that for 25 years frompeople that really don't have that much
knowledge of it and they find out whatI do but that's a very dated concept.
The trend has been to shoot foodnaturally for a very long time now.
(40:46):
There are things that you will do tomake food because it's not maybe coming
right out of the oven and being shot.
You might have to use aheat gun or something.
You want to elicit appetite,appeal, a sense of smell and a
sense of taste in a photograph.
So you might spritz a salad witha little water so it looks fresh
(41:09):
and elicits that in a photo.
There are things that youcan do, but largely it's real
food and it's very natural.
And even in commercial workand advertising, you are using
the product and the real food.
Mica (41:24):
It's just so misunderstood about what we do, what food stylists
do, what food photographers do.
We're not, doing any trickery or foolery.
Lisa (41:33):
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
You're going to use, you'regoing to use the real ice cream.
There are recipes forfake ice cream out there.
And maybe if they've got a cone of icecream in the background that is not the
product and they want it just to be inthe background sitting there for a while,
maybe I'll make them some fake ice creamand they can throw that back there.
But it certainly is not goingto be the feature of the shot.
Mica (41:56):
In the video, the marketer was referencing a lawsuit, a man is suing
Taco Bell for false advertisement.
He said that the taco that hereceived did not look anything
like the taco in the picture.
And I'm like, okay once we've done theshoot, the rest is up to the client.
(42:17):
We're not false advertising.
That's them.
We're not the ones getting sued.
They're getting sued.
So if Taco Bell is not makingtheir tacos the way that the
picture looks, that's on Taco Bell.
We're not misleading anybody.
Taco Bell is.
Lisa (42:32):
Yeah, it's like a clothing brand showing an advertisement
of clothes on a, on a model.
They're going to make themlook as best as they can.
That does not mean it's going to look thatway when you buy them and put them on.
Mica (42:45):
Exactly, exactly.
Lisa (42:47):
There is a truth in advertising clause.
We are required to use the product in theadvertisement and we can't over promise.
If it typically shows...
You know say it's a taco and a third ofit is black beans and a third of it is
ground meat and a third of it is cheese.
We have to represent that.
(43:07):
We can't over promise.
So it should be that yes, will itlook more finessed and prettier
and more appetite appealing thanyou know a taco that you know
got shoved into a bag and threw awindow and into a car and opened up.
Yeah, probably.
Honestly, really that's ridiculous.
Mica (43:28):
What are you expecting?
It's Taco Bell.
Lisa (43:31):
Oh, that's very I know.
Really?
Oh my god.
I do have to say when I very firststarted out and I was assisting one
job that I had to assist Doloreson was a commercial for McDonald's.
I lasted one day and I said,I can't do this anymore.
This is not what I want to do.
They brought another assistant inbut there were lots of assistants
(43:54):
on the job, but everybody had a job.
One person was picking fat out of meat.
I was stuck in a tiny room withboxes and boxes of buns, just gluing
sesame seeds on buns all day long.
I did that for eight hours, finding theright color, shape bun, and gluing ses.
And I, I could not dothat for another day.
(44:16):
I did it one day and I said, you knowwhat, this is not what I want to do.
I didn't really go that commercial route.
First of all, I'm not a bigfast food person to begin with.
And did I want to necessarily sell that?
Not really, to America, because Ithink it's one of the, the demises
of the American society, honestly.
And we've spread it tothe rest of the world now.
Mica (44:38):
So I have absolutely very one last question for you.
What is something you hope that thelisteners learn from your interview today?
Lisa (44:48):
I don't know.
Gosh.
Really, I think I said everything I haveto say about food styling , but I just,
I, I just hope that they, understandhow important it is to be open and talk
to other, peers in the field about whatwe all do, and share that information.
(45:09):
That's why I'm here today talking to you.
I'm so glad that we hadthe opportunity to meet.
This has been, I, I've soenjoyed talking to you.
It's been great.
Yeah.
But that's the big takeaway is,is sharing the information and
getting to know other people.
Mica (45:26):
Yes.
I enjoyed everything aboutthis conversation, so thank
you for being on the show.
Lisa (45:31):
This has been a beautiful fun break in my day.
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