February 19, 2025 • 43 mins
The Secret Sauce to Drool-Worthy Food Photography
Picture this: You're scrolling through Yelp, stomach rumbling, overwhelmed by choices, and then BAM! A perfectly lit, mouthwatering dish catches your eye, stopping you mid-scroll. The crisp edges of a golden-brown crust, the vibrant pop of fresh herbs, the glossy sheen of a perfectly plated sauce—it all screams, "Order me now!" Your decision is made. That, my friend, is the undeniable power of great food photography. But how do restaurants determine which dishes deserve this kind of spotlight? What makes a meal truly photogenic, and how can images drive sales and brand loyalty? That's exactly what food photographer Nancy Ingersoll unpacks with expertise and passion.
Meet Nancy Ingersoll: The Woman Behind the LensNancy is more than just a photographer—she's a strategist, stylist, and storyteller. With eight years of experience photographing food and products, she's worked with over 200 brands, ranging from small local restaurants to big-name food companies. She understands branding and marketing inside and out, so she makes sure every photo she takes perfectly captures a restaurant's unique style and what they're trying to achieve. Her expertise goes beyond photography—she curates props, advises on plating techniques, and even helps businesses understand how to leverage visuals for social media and advertising. She doesn't just capture dishes; she helps restaurants tell their story through compelling visuals that drive customer engagement and sales.
What You'll Learn in This EpisodeNancy shares her step-by-step process for guiding restaurants in selecting the right dishes for a photoshoot. From asking the right questions (What's your most profitable dish? What's seasonal? What makes people say WOW?) to ensuring variety in textures and colors, she breaks it all down with clarity and expertise. Plus, she shares her Give, Get method to help restaurant owners feel confident in their choices.
Take This With YouWhether you're a food photographer, restaurant owner, or just someone who loves food (hi, same!), Nancy's insights prove that a well-thought-out photo can do more than just look good—it can create cravings, drive sales, and shape a brand's identity.
💬 Join the ConversationSavory Shot Shownote: https://micamccook.com/guests/nancy-ingersoll/
Website: https://micamccook.com/podcast
Instagram: www.instragram.com/mica.mccook
Instagram: www.instagram.com/thesavoryshotpodcast
📣 Follow Nancy IngersollWebsite: https://nancyingersoll.com/
Instagram: @thecreativeresource
Facebook: @thecreativeresource LinkedIn: @nancyingersoll
Would you like to be a guest on the show? Fill out the guest form, and we'll be in touch soon.Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the 62nd episode of TheSavory Shot, a podcast about the art
(00:08):
and soul of working in food photography.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographerbased out of Austin, Texas.
If this is your first time listening,welcome to the Hot Mess Express.
Hope you like it.
Hope you stay.
(00:28):
If this is your 62nd time joiningus, welcome back boo things!
Thanks for showing up.
Y'all, I am so excitedabout today's episode.
I'm not going to waste asingle second of your time.
I'm going to get right into it.
Today's guest is super duper special.
(00:52):
She went on to Savory Shots websiteand filled out the intake form.
She said, girl, I got some bombs to drop.
I got some knowledge to share.
You have got to put me on the show.
Okay, so she sounded a lot moreprofessional than that, but that's
like a loose interpretation ofwhat she actually said, but for
(01:13):
real y'all, meet Nancy Ingersoll.
Nancy is a San Diego based commercialfood photographer and lifestyle product
photographer who helps food centricbusinesses with custom visuals to
increase brand awareness and socialmedia support to drive businesses.
(01:33):
She helps with more thanjust food photography y'all.
She is also a marketing strategistand brand builder, prop curator,
visual storyteller, recipe developer,blog contributor, photo stylist,
image composer, content creator,and social media manager, and
graphic designer, and so much more.
(01:55):
Y'all I was tired just fromsaying all that like where
does she get the time to sleep?
That's a lot of stuff.
But she's focused on food andproduct photography since 2018.
Nancy's client roster includes bothrestaurants and CPG food brands.
(02:17):
She has worked with over 200 brandsincluding large publicly traded
companies, but y'all she alsoloves to support small businesses,
small brands, and see them grow.
And she's here on the Savory Shot todayto talk about how she helps restaurants
decide which dishes to photographwhen they are doing a full menu shoot.
(02:42):
I know I say this every episode, buty'all, this was my favorite interview.
Nancy changed the way Iapproach my restaurant shoots,
how I choose my shot lists.
This episode is so great.
So I'm going to get right into it.
I know y'all got places to go,things to do, people to see, all
that jazz, businesses to run.
(03:03):
So grab your coffee, grab a pen andpaper, whatever it is that you need to
get through this episode, grab it righthere and now, and let's start the show.
(03:46):
Nancy, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
So I want to start this off by askingyou about your intro to food photography.
You've worked in other nichesof photography before finding
yourself in food photography.
So what initially drewyou to food photography?
(04:07):
The economy got tighter and phonecameras got better and better.
So I needed to branch out of portraits.
I didn't want to sacrifice myweekends to do weddings, even
though they pay really well.
I stumbled my way intoproduct photography.
It was a local jeweler whoasked me to take some pictures.
I may have done her son'sportraits at some point.
(04:29):
And then later I expanded my way into foodphotography and the leftovers don't suck.
The leftovers don't suck at all.
You hit it on the nail about weddings.
I did that for about a year and itwas a good moneymaker, but it's not
(04:50):
just the weekends I had to sacrifice.
I didn't like something happeningthat I had seconds to fix.
Out of all of the niches that you exploredin addition to food photography, which
other niche speaks to you the most?
Probably just product photography.
(05:12):
I really am drawn toanything that's food centric.
I've done some vitamins and supplements,which you can argue maybe it's the health
sector and maybe it's food photography,but it still feels like food photography
to me because I can pair the ingredientswith it or the flavor profiles.
The place where the vitaminscome from in nature, and then it
(05:35):
feels more like food photography.
I'd consider vitamins andsupplements food centric.
I'm taking chaseberry for my periods.
I don't even know what that is,but it is helping me it's been
around the world and I like it.
But product photography, what Ilike about product photographies,
(05:56):
you can get so creative andyou don't need that much space.
In addition to being a photographer,you do graphic designing,
styling, and you're an educator.
How do all of these skills helpthe restaurants that you serve?
(06:17):
The graphic designing is a bigselling factor for me because
I understand empty space.
I know there needs to be a placefor text to go and the posters
point of sale in restaurants.
As a stylist, I'm aware when the platecomes out, it needs to be wiped or the
salad fluffed or whatever needs to bedone to the food, plated differently so
(06:38):
that the image will look better as well ascomposing hero shops with multiple dishes.
I have in my bag, different littlerisers and blocks that I'll tuck
underneath dishes so that I canoverlap them more and get more dishes.
I like to do things on in thescene and having less empty space.
Although I do have somefillers in my bag too.
(07:01):
Some different napkins and utensils totuck in little places so that it's not all
food, but so that it all feels relevant.
As a former educator, I'm also able toguide clients so I can explain to them
why certain things will benefit them.
Sometimes people will just go in and say,Oh, we need to do this, this, and this and
(07:22):
they don't know what's going on, and ifI can tell them why I do this, then now
I've taught them something, and they'remore receptive to my other requests.
I love that you pointed out aboutguiding them and holding their hand.
What surprises your clients themost whenever they work with you?
(07:43):
I have a breadth of knowledge.
Just last week, I was in a restaurantshooting for them, and I provided
some information on marketing.
I told them about Nextdoor.com.
I don't know if you have it in yourneighborhood, but Nextdoor.com is pretty
much everywhere now and restaurants cansign up for an account and post for free.
And then it's like automatically geofenced and most restaurants don't even
(08:08):
know the term geo fencing cause theyhave to hire an outside marketing person.
So I can give them a littlebit of an education about that.
They can do something that benefitsthem and they're like, wow, this
photographer came in and gaveme this information for free.
I want them to succeed because I wantthem to be around when they need more
pictures and then they'll call me back.
Exactly.
(08:29):
Exactly.
It's like you succeed.
That means future work for me.
That means established relationship.
I like that you mentioned Nextdoorbecause most restaurants tend to gravitate
towards automatically is Instagram.
And they find themselves frustratedthat they aren't reaching.
Honestly, the majority of restaurantsI go to, I find through Yelp and the
(08:51):
photos are what sells me on Yelp.
Put your best photos on Yelp.
So you mentioned in your intakeform that before you meet with any
new client you do your homework.
What kind of homework do you doand how does that prep you for your
first consultation with your client?
First before you meet with them,you need to cyber stalk them.
(09:14):
Scour their website.
Google profile, Yelp media handlesand compare that to their menu.
What dishes are missing?
Which dishes alreadyhave really good photos?
Or which dishes photograph really well,but they're all shot from the same angle?
Or what dishes might pair wellwith another when you want
to do a grouping together?
Or, do you want to juxtapose twothings that are contradictory?
(09:37):
When we were very first married,my husband and I, we used to be
regulars at a restaurant in theneighborhood where we lived and it
was fish and chips and Thai food.
And it was a really, lovely littleThai family and they had a fish and
chip shop and they made the best curry.
So we never even got fish andchips there, but I think that was
(09:57):
really their bread and butter thejuxtaposition of those two things.
I did photograph very similarly inSanta Barbara, a little diner that
was typical diner breakfast, butit was a Chinese couple and they
had great Chinese food as well.
So I think there's a lot of restaurantslike that out there where someone wants
to share their culture with everyoneelse, but already established something
(10:20):
in that particular brick and mortar.
If you can put those together ina picture and show the world that.
You can get both of thesethings at this place.
Then now this one pictureis telling multiple stories.
Oh man.
And when your clients reach out toyou, do they often know what it is that
(10:42):
they're seeking from you besides photos?
Do most of them have an ideaof what they're looking for?
Are they rebranding or are theyjust we need new photos or we've
expanded, so we need something more.
Do you find that the homeworkthat you do on them matches
what they're coming to you for?
(11:03):
Like their problem areas matchwhat you notice in their website.
I, I think that most restaurantsdon't know what they need, and
the restaurant business is hard.
They just know they need help.
A picture's worth a thousand words,and everyone knows that we eat with our
eyes first, I need a photographer, andI want the pictures to be really good.
(11:24):
So then, they start Googling.
Searching, however it is they search.
Pinteresting or Instagramming or whatever.
They find a picture that they thinklooks good and then they reach out.
You're like, Hey, help.
This is what I need.
Recently had a restaurant reach outto me and fortunately didn't work out
because their budget was very smalland they're a very small restaurant.
(11:48):
But they they searched food photographerGoogle, and they did like a spray and
pray method where they just reachedout to a bunch of photographers,
because I was really confusedwhy they were reaching out to me.
I thought maybe they're rebrandingand want punchy, dramatic
photos, which is what I do.
Their website had super, natural,soft light, beautiful, but
(12:11):
it did not match what I did.
So I was really confused.
Like they were reaching out to meand I asked them, what appealed and
they're like, Oh we Googled you,we Googled food photographer and
saw that you had nice pictures.
I thought well, you're not ready tobuy, ready to buy because that's,
that was your qualification.
I have nice photos Have you everfound yourself in a situation like
(12:34):
that and how did you handle that?
There have been a couple times wherepeople will send me, Oh, here's a
Pinterest board I made or a whateverinspiration board that they have.
And when it doesn't matchmine, I have to say, these are
the kind of pictures I have.
Because, I've seen your work and it isbeautiful, but it is nothing like mine and
(12:56):
the client is not right for both of us.
And that's part of my contractand it should be part of every
photographer's contract is that,you have the line in there that they
have seen your work and that theyunderstand what your work looks like.
So there are no surprises.
You mentioned something earlierabout being a former educator.
Sorry about that.
And that your skills as a former educatorinvolves with guiding your clients
(13:22):
and, helping them with choosing dishes.
So my question is how do you guideyour clients in helping them choose
the dishes that really matter to them?
Or should matter.
It all starts with a series of questions.
You can't just walk inthere ready to shoot.
(13:42):
You've already developed a shotlist them or in some cases, they
might have a shot list for you.
But when it's those restaurantsthat they're like, we just need a
photographer, we need to do somethingthen, or maybe they don't even know how
many pictures they need or what it is.
You know that sometimes theydon't know how many pictures I
need or how much money they have.
(14:02):
I'm like, I really need one of those two.
But here's where we can start.
We know that you don't have thebudget for a full menu shoot, right?
Let me ask you a bunch of questions.
They range from do youhave any marketing goals?
Often the answer is no, they don'tknow what they are and that's okay.
I can help identify some itemsthat they can push that will
help drive their success.
Then they can have a longerconversation about marketing goals.
(14:26):
Ask if they have any seasonal items.
Oh, if the answer is yes, it's perfectbecause when that picture's out of
season, they might have me back and ifit's in season, then maybe it's new on
their menu and their customers who havebeen there before, haven't seen it.
And so we want to be able to showcasethat so people know that it looks
(14:49):
good and I want to order that.
Photographing the seasonal thing helpsthem because it gets the word out and then
it also helps me because when it's outof season there's a new seasonal item.
I ask if there's specialtiesor signature dish.
You know their best sellers.
They probably already thoughtabout what their specialty is and
what their best seller is, but thething they often overlook is what
(15:13):
is their biggest profit margin?
If they're a business person,they've probably thought about it.
But a lot of restauranteursaren't business people first.
They're in there for the passion of food.
They haven't thought about, Oh,I should be pushing this because
I make twice the amount of profitas I do on this other dish.
If we show people this picture, thenthey're going to see it and want it.
(15:33):
Maybe I have this picture in mymind and I keep thinking about
it and then I finally go to thisrestaurant and I'm going to order it
because I've been thinking about it.
I also like to ask if there's any dishesthat look different than the traditional
version of that dish, because if a persongoes in and they say, I want this thing,
and then I order this thing and it doesn'tlook like that, then now I'm surprised.
(15:54):
I'm not really sure if I'm going tolike it or not, but if we get people
excited about, Oh, they do this thingso different than everyone else.
Then I can show them andwe can talk about it.
It lends itself to good captionwriting and having a picture of
it will drive sales on that too.
I also ask about texture.
Is there anything that has a fancy sauceor a wow factor that can be showcased?
(16:18):
We've gone through all of thesedifferent questions, and now I've
got a sense for where, now we cantalk about what dishes to feature.
That's super in depth.
Restaurant owners, chefs don'tthink about textures in a dish,
a sauce is a certain color.
I mean, unless they've worked with aphotographer, but most of them haven't.
(16:41):
So I imagine that all of that canbe overwhelming trying to make
those decisions and dwindle it down.
Does that often happen with themhow do you help them through that?
Okay, I asked them six to eight questionsdepending on the restaurant, and that
gives me some information so I cando, I call it the Give, Get, Give, Get
(17:02):
method, but I think it's really justcalled the Give, Get method, and I think
it's a sales strategy for negotiations.
The way it works for me is I have allthese answers that they've just had and
we haven't written down any dishes yet.
They probably are thinking in their head.
This one's by signature dish we're goingto do that, but i've now opened their eyes
(17:22):
up to profit margin textures garnishescolors, so now I have their answers
and i'm going to start with whatever,has their biggest visual appeal, right?
People eat with their eyes first,and so now they're going to get,
I'm going to give them one andwhat dish is your prettiest dish?
(17:43):
If they can't answer that question,then I need to flip the question
quickly so that they're notdwelling on not knowing the answer.
I'll say, what dish looksmore appetizing than others?
Then we add that to the list.
Yeah, because we're notphotographing chili.
Although I did recently.
(18:03):
Thanks for
me of
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Maybe you can drown it in green.
Make the brown a littlebit more appetizing.
Just chives, chives, chives.
Now they've, they've given me an answer.
So yes, we have this on our list.
We definitely did photographthis other one thing.
I've told you this one thing, you'vegiven me an answer to my question.
(18:25):
Now we can reflect back on whatwas that biggest profit margin if
that's not one of the first two.
And now here's my second one, so thennow we're like ready for our fourth
item and I can ask them anotherquestion, is there a hidden gem?
Are there any new items?
Because if it's new people haven'tseen it and they need to see it.
So they'll order it.
(18:46):
If they can answer that one we canadd that one on I just need to quickly
spin it to another question becauseI don't want them to drown in their
thoughts and second guess themselves.
Have a anxiety or identity crisis.
They're like, Oh, my God.
And they already just a few minutes agotold me what their showstopper was when
I said, what's your prettiest dish?
So I can say, okay what'sthat showstopper again?
(19:09):
Describe it to me.
And then they tell me, Oh, ithas this garnish or this sauce.
I'm like, Oh yes.
The contrast of the green withthe red is complimentary colors
and that's going to be fantastic.
Let's do that.
Or, Oh, are you using, flatparsley or, curly parsley.
I can guide them into being excitedabout it, and then we add that one on.
And so it's going back and forth.
(19:29):
It's this banter of me guidingyou, Oh, we need to do this.
Now you telling me what you want todo next, even though I asked you the
question so that you answered it.
And then now we havefour on our list, right?
Now I need to educate them a littlebit more and tell them about variety.
Because of variety, it'sthe spice of life, right?
(19:49):
You can get variety from typesof dishes or range of dishes.
Is it appetizers and mains and desserts?
Or is it shapes?
Burritos and tacos and enchiladas.
Or is it categories?
Soups and sandwiches and baked things.
We talk about different types of variety.
Do you have a preference?
How do we want to portrayvariety in this selection?
(20:10):
This is what we have so far.
Are they all the same color?
Are they all the same shape?
Let's get another one in there.
Whatever it is that we're doing tomake variety, now we identify this
fifth item so that we have variety.
We're filling a gap, and now wehave a pretty good selection.
I can do individual shots and I canpair a couple together and I could do
(20:31):
threesomes of the five, I can do all five.
I can switch it up and take it from there.
Maybe there might even be a modifierwhere I get extra bonus item, right?
So if there's a salad and you canadd a chicken or a salmon on top
of it, we'll shoot it naked firstand then we'll add the chicken and
then we'll swap out the salmon.
We don't even have as muchfood waste here, but now I
(20:52):
have three different dishes.
I love that.
In the past when I've worked withrestaurants, I've just left a lot of
the choosing to them, or just said, Okaywhat do you want to photograph and not
really walked them through the process.
Hearing you talk about the give,get, method for guiding your clients,
(21:15):
it sounds like even though you'rephotographing five to six dishes, I
still feel like I'm getting a good viewof what kind of restaurant it is and
whether I'm going to enjoy the food.
You mentioned that you have a dishselection checklist for restaurant owners.
How can photographers create a checklistof their own to get ready for a shoot?
(21:39):
Or is there a template that you havethat you share with other photographers?
Yeah, I'm giving it away as a freebie.
I'm a big believer incommunity over competition.
I can't go to all the restaurantsand I want all the restaurants
to succeed because I want them tohave competition within each other.
So then they strive for excellence.
(22:00):
Because if we only have onechoice, they're all going to
be the same and bland, so letthem all know all my secrets.
And so I have this freebie, and it'sgood for restaurants or photographers.
Either one can use it.
It's generic enough that it can be usedby almost any kind of restaurant or
(22:20):
food truck it doesn't matter whetherthey're auditing their library of
images, social media feed, GoogleMy Business, or what images are
they've posted on their Yelp profile.
Using this will help make sure they havea really good mix of several dishes.
Some of the items on the checklist, it's.
You know, I, I threw things together.
(22:41):
And some of them is just a single item.
Do you have an item and then othersis, does your mix meet this criteria?
So some of the check boxes, you haveto actually have multiple items in
order to check that one off, but it'squite satisfying to check them off.
And if you don't check them off,then it gives you a goal to work for.
I love when I meet other photographerswho believe in community over competition.
(23:07):
It boils down to just really wanting tosee others succeed in a tough industry.
I don't understand peoplewho don't believe in that.
Has this belief always been apart of you since a younger age
or is it something you fell into?
When I was in my late twenties, I enteredthe world of high school teaching.
(23:28):
I taught high school photographyand guided students through
the AP portfolio process.
I helped them decideon their concentration.
And I got to show them that like, you knowwhat, yours can look totally different
than yours and they both be awesome.
In the world of restaurants, I want togo on vacation and I want there to be an
awesome restaurant there needs to be aphotographer capturing that restaurant so
(23:51):
that I can find it when I go on vacation.
That's where I am with thefood photography world of
community over competition.
Oh, man.
And for me, it's noteven just restaurants.
It's, I have a real deep specialspot in my soul for local mom and
pop restaurants, because those arejust places that you can't replicate.
(24:17):
So I want to move to yourapproach to lighting.
And when you're working indifferent restaurant environments,
how do you approach how you'regoing to light the restaurant?
And does that impact what dishes youselect for the final dish selection?
I don't think that it's ever affectedmy dish selection, but I. I do.
(24:43):
I don't, I'm amazed myself.
How did I used to shootbefore raw pictures?
Like, when I used to shoot inJPEG and only use Photoshop?
I love so much on the table.
Hey photographers, if you're notshooting in RAW and using Lightroom
Classic, man, give it a try.
(25:05):
Lightroom Classic.
I still keep forgetting to call itLightroom Classic because I'm just
so used to calling it Lightroom.
I have three different versions ofLightroom downloaded in different devices.
I'm like, I can't keep up with this.
Yeah, I taught community collegephotography and one of the 20 something,
(25:25):
20 ish year old kids who was in the classsays to me why are we using this old one?
Why are we using Lightroom Classic?
And I'm like, oh no, no.
It's the good one.
I promise you.
Like, you're fine.
Yeah,
You're fine.
I had to show him how you could dothings in classic that you can't
(25:46):
do in non classic I don't know.
They will have to pry LightroomClassic from my cold dead fingers.
Like I mostly shoot a tether to CaptureOne these days, but I still have my my
Lightroom Classic catalog, and I takedeep pride in how organized it is.
(26:07):
So my Lightroom catalogfrom college was a mess.
My teacher shamed me in front of thewhole class about how disorganized it was.
Ever since that happened, I was like,I'm not going to get caught slipping.
I'm a Virgo.
We're known for being organized.
He put it up on the big screen andhe's like this is not how you do it.
(26:27):
After that, I took deep pride inkeeping everything pristine, organized,
clipped, tagged, all that jazz.
But going back to your approach tolighting, when you go into a restaurant,
what's the first thing that usuallycomes to mind or that you look out for?
If I'm shooting a small job.
I'm not gonna do a lighting setup.
(26:48):
You're not paying me to bringin multiple trips from my car.
I can pack quite a bit on my person.
I've figured out how to balancemy tripod inside my prop bag, and
I have my backpack that holds mycamera and lenses and the computer.
I've got another bag so I can get in andstill be able to fit it to go box in my
bag when my going, making my way out.
(27:10):
But, if I'm shooting justnatural or available light, I
still believe in reflecting.
So I do have a reflector when Iwas teaching both college and high
school photography, I made sureeveryone knew it's accessible.
(27:31):
You can go to the dollar store, buy a rollof foil and break down an old Amazon box.
Now you have yourself a 99 cent reflector,which probably works just as good as
my fancy one, but it doesn't fold upinto a magic circle that fits in a bag,
Heck, even getting it to fold ina magic circle is hard enough.
My goodness.
(27:51):
Could they make that any more difficult?
I love creating tools withas little as possible.
Use what you have with theresources that you have.
So another question about the restaurants.
How long have you been workingwith restaurants specifically?
(28:14):
I think I actually, I think Ihad to look on my in my files
when I filled your intake form.
I want to say it was eight.
Is it eight years now?
So in the eight years, how hasrestaurant photography evolved?
And where do you see it goingin the next three years?
I think we're still going tobe eating with our eyes, right?
(28:38):
It can create hunger.
Have you ever tried watching the FoodNetwork when you're not hungry and then
a half an hour later, you're hungry.
The struggle is real.
When you're on a diet, you shouldnot be watching cooking shows.
So that's the power of thevisual image right there.
We all know it.
So I don't think thatphotography is going away.
And I think that restaurants needto concentrate on what they can
(29:02):
do and outsource what they can.
There's always gonna be,Yelpers and Instagrammers.
Whatever platform is popular 40 years fromnow, that's gonna be needing images too.
I can only imagine what platformwill be popular 40 years from now.
It cracks me up that my nieces and nephewstry to teach me about social media.
(29:25):
I'm like, I'm an elder millennial.
I was here when it started.
You have nothing to teach me.
I teach you.
I've noticed some restaurants usingAI images on their social media posts.
I don't know if they thinkthey're fooling anyone.
They look so obvious.
How do you feel about AI imagesincreasingly appearing on social media?
(29:48):
Some of them flat out look creepy.
Okay.
We can just admit that.
They really do.
And if you can do an AI image andget the hands right, you should get
some brownie points though, becausethe AI hands, those are extra creepy.
There's like eight of them.
That are so creepy.
And then also.
If you've ever messed around withthe AI image generation, if there's
(30:11):
a sign in the background or alabel, it misspells all the time.
You generally spells better than me, butin their images, they always misspell.
But that being said, I have usedAI to edit some of my pictures,
but I keep the integrity of it.
It's fine to do patches here and there forediting but if you're photographing it.
(30:33):
AI is only proving theimportance of photographers
because of the prompt generator.
As long as I still have a creativevision, it doesn't matter what
this restaurant owner puts in.
They're hiring me for my creativevision my creative skill.
I'm worried about thepeople who refuse to use it.
But those photos do look creepy.
(30:53):
Yeah.
But there's a saying though, that AIis not going to take anyone's job.
A person who can use AI betterthan you can might take your job.
AI is saving restaurants money in thesense that if I need to retouch something.
Do you remember in the days of the clonestamp where you're hitting, option touch,
click a million times to get that roundbowl with just that chili that I mentioned
(31:14):
that I just recently shot in December.
It was in a paper bowl.
Paper you can't wipe off like a real bowl.
And so I just drew a littlecircle around it, and then I told
AI to clean up the edge, and itwas a perfectly patched circle.
The curves, those were theworst for clone stamping.
It's certainly a time saver.
(31:37):
The kitchen didn't have to replay it.
I didn't have to wait for it.
I didn't have to spend a millionclicks to get that curve cleaned
up, and now the image is fixed.
I've also used it to add some seasonaltouches to some pictures for a
restaurant that I do their social media.
Santa Claus hands holding the tray oftacos, as opposed to the human hands
(32:01):
that were holding the tray of tacos.
Love that so much.
Yeah, and it's still my tray of tacos.
I, it's my photograph, right?
So adding little things I think is okay.
I don't know, is it like in movies,there were a certain percentage of the
script has to match the actual truestory for it to be based on a true story.
(32:22):
There's gotta be some percentage of photosthat, but I don't know what that is.
You hit it on the nailabout how it's the tacos.
Being authentic.
The food they're looking at is thefood they'll see at a restaurant.
With restaurants creating AI images,they run a very dangerous line.
A customer might say, this is whatI saw in the photo, and this looks
(32:45):
nothing like what you delivered.
And then they have to say, Oh,well, we created that in AI.
In a couple of years, it's going to be asexpected as having filters on your photos.
I want to finish theinterview with two questions.
What advice would you give to someonenew to the food photography world
who wants to work with restaurants.
(33:07):
What's the best approachto get into that industry?
Start with shooting what you like, right?
People are gonna find your workand they're gonna resonate like,
oh, that looks like my restaurant.
So if you're shooting for high end, don'tbe posting pictures of tacos and burritos.
I'm in Southern California.
I love a taco.
(33:29):
And you know us Texans love tacos too.
So if you're good with shooting from atruck, I mean, I, I shoot for a truck
regularly and they're permanentlyparked outside a brewery, which
is my husband's favorite brewery.
So it works out well for us.
So shoot what you like, but don'tshoot without a signed contract.
Yes.
(33:49):
Yes to all of that.
Yes.
Signed contract.
Yeah get one that's from yourstate, who do generic contracts
that you can buy a template from.
I will admit that my firstcontract, I hodgepodge from, I
pulled this line from this one.
Oh, this sounds like a good clause.
I'm going to have that in there.
And then I finallyponied up for a real one.
At least have something, and if youcan't afford having someone do one
(34:12):
totally for you, find a real lawyer inyour state you can buy the template from
that's specifically for photography.
And there are even organizationsthat will do it for free,
like they're creative based.
That do it for free or for very low cost.
But I like what you said aboutfinding an actual lawyer, draft a
(34:36):
contract for you that you can userepeatedly just so you know that you're
protected and your work is protected.
My second little pearl of wisdom forphotographer starting out is don't be
afraid to send an ugly dish back to thekitchen or offer to replate it because
if it doesn't look good, a fresh garnishor retossing a salad can really make
(34:59):
a difference in what you can capture.
But if it's ugly, you're not going to,you're going to have an ugly picture.
And
Yeah.
There's no editing that's gonna save that
Yeah be aware of the whole environmentis another little pearl for me.
A second background that matchesthe vibe of the restaurant or
the color story of the brand.
One of the places that I'm on retainerfor, so I shoot for them regularly.
(35:21):
These yellow chairs.
Not all of the chairs are yellow.
The other ones are teal, but I nevershoot on them because their brand
color, yellow is, the same as chair.
They have three different tabletops,but there's one in particular that
I like better than the other two.
So I always shoot at the same tablebecause I like it's surface better.
And then I will also pull one of theyellow chairs over and take that dish and
(35:44):
I will shoot it on that table that I like.
Then I will move over and I will put iton that chair and do a top down and a 45.
With that yellow background.
It looks a regular background when youdon't see the edge of the chair Sometimes
there might be a feature wall next to theentrance and if it's the brand's color
or vibe hopefully it's vibing, right?
(36:05):
So shoot the same dish on multiplebackgrounds that all match with the vibe.
If your contract was for 20 images andyou show them more images then they're
going to want to opt into the extras too.
Oh, for sure.
Oh, for sure.
The one thing that, that Ialways forget to do, which.
(36:27):
I know, here's me preaching to myself,take some behind the scenes pictures.
Oh, that's a big one.
Yes.
I have an Apple watch and I havean iPhone, I can use that watch
as a remote and I should be takinga picture of myself all the time,
but I very rarely remember to.
Oh, gosh.
Cause you're in the middleof a shoot and you just get.
(36:49):
I was telling my husband this, Isaid, you don't understand.
The photographer's brain is real.
You show up and you hold your camera andyou're like shaking it like a monkey.
Like you've never seen the thing before.
I've spent years crafting, butas soon as the shoot starts, it's
like all logic leaves the door.
That's why your assistant is wonderful.
That's why having a teambehind you is great.
(37:10):
So that he can think for youbecause your brain disappears.
Yes, like your brain disappears on whereyou put your lens cap, so if you can
always put it in the same spot, likethe side pocket of my camera bag or rear
left pocket, but I'm not always wearingrear left pocket, so that didn't work.
So I go with the side pocket of thecamera bag because it's always with me.
(37:32):
Otherwise, I don't know.
I spent my first three yearsof photographing looking for my
lens cap at the end of every job.
The final question that I havefor you is what do you hope that
listeners gain from today's episode?
I think just the whole point of this isso that everyone can be successful, right?
(37:53):
I want restaurants to succeed, and wecan all share our wisdom with each other.
If we can all come up with a greatshot list, and if someone else
comes up with some great things thatthey want to share with me, I'm all
ears, they can DM me on Instagram orthere's a contact form on a website.
When you're working with smallerbrands, they're not usually ready
(38:16):
to commit to a full menu shoot.
Hopefully I've broken down some questionsto ask and how to guide them and, and
that puts them at more comfortablelevel to trust you with their pictures.
Now I know I said I had one lastquestion and I asked that question,
but here's the really last question.
What keeps you working withrestaurants after eight years?
(38:38):
The leftovers don't hurt, butno, in reality, I'm a foodie.
I see restaurants making thingsthat I wouldn't make at home
and I get to appreciate it.
Cooking is a passion.
They're sharing in mostcases, their culture.
By sharing everyone's culturewith each other, we have
learned more about the people.
If we know about the people, thenwe can appreciate the people.
(39:05):
I love that.
It's a way, it's a form of love.
It's a form of love.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
First of all, for coming on the show.
I want to get my hands on that checklist.
I feel like that would change so much forhow I approach working with restaurants.
Where can the listeners follow you,find you, get their hands on the
(39:30):
checklist, the dish selection checklist.
Where can we find you?
I'm on Instagram as The Creative Resourceand my website is nancyingersoll.com.
That's I N G E R S O L L for my last name.
And.
I have the checklist was shouldbe in the show notes too.
Yeah.
(39:50):
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah, you can grab it off.
Yeah.
And the show notes.
You can also, I'm going toadd it to my link tree too.
So you should be able to pullit off my Instagram as well.
If you send me a message in thecontact me form on my website, I
can also send you a link to it.
One, one reason why I came up withthat checklist was when I started doing
(40:10):
social media management for a restaurantlike I needed to see what the mix
was that I needed for their library.
I inherited this library of images.
It was just this random photo dump.
And then I augmented that withsome of my own photos that I
took just on a mad shoot a fest.
And then I had to be like,okay, wait, what do I need?
(40:33):
And so I developed that listand I'm here to share it.
I keep telling you this lastquestion, last question, and then
something pops up in my mind.
So I'm so sorry, but where didthe name, The Creative Resource,
what's the story behind that?
I was a little bit lost at first.
All I knew is that Iwas a creative, right?
(40:57):
I taught high school photographyand I also did graphic design and
I was doing freelance photographyand freelance graphic design.
Everything I did was creativeand I was a resource for people.
Someone asked, what should I call myself?
To say that I'm a graphic designer aphotographer and a this and a that.
(41:19):
That's too much of a mouthful.
I need one all encompassing catchphrase.
Then someone said you'rea creative resource.
Oh no, I'm the creative resource.
I love that so much.
I love that so much.
And it was so fitting for all of theskills that you bring to the table.
Okay, that really was the last question.
(41:41):
Nancy, thank you again so much forcoming on the show for signing up
and filling out the guest intakeform like really, I thank you so much
for being here on The Savory Shot.
It was, and you know, I love Savory Shot,and I quite frankly, I was a little bit
like sad when there was that gap thereat the end of the year, and I'm like, Oh
(42:03):
my gosh, I need to fill out this guestintake form because I need something
to listen to when I walk to the dog.
I am really excited that I'mback and ready to charge forward.
I missed you guys.
So I'm glad to be back.
Oh, we are glad you're back.
Yay!
Yay!
Oh my gosh.
Welcome to the 62nd episode of TheSavory Shot, a podcast about the art
(00:08):
and soul of working in food photography.
Y'all know who I be.
I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook.
I'm a food photographerbased out of Austin, Texas.
If this is your first time listening,welcome to the Hot Mess Express.
Hope you like it.
Hope you stay.
(00:28):
If this is your 62nd time joiningus, welcome back boo things!
Thanks for showing up.
Y'all, I am so excitedabout today's episode.
I'm not going to waste asingle second of your time.
I'm going to get right into it.
Today's guest is super duper special.
(00:52):
She went on to Savory Shots websiteand filled out the intake form.
She said, girl, I got some bombs to drop.
I got some knowledge to share.
You have got to put me on the show.
Okay, so she sounded a lot moreprofessional than that, but that's
like a loose interpretation ofwhat she actually said, but for
(01:13):
real y'all, meet Nancy Ingersoll.
Nancy is a San Diego based commercialfood photographer and lifestyle product
photographer who helps food centricbusinesses with custom visuals to
increase brand awareness and socialmedia support to drive businesses.
(01:33):
She helps with more thanjust food photography y'all.
She is also a marketing strategistand brand builder, prop curator,
visual storyteller, recipe developer,blog contributor, photo stylist,
image composer, content creator,and social media manager, and
graphic designer, and so much more.
(01:55):
Y'all I was tired just fromsaying all that like where
does she get the time to sleep?
That's a lot of stuff.
But she's focused on food andproduct photography since 2018.
Nancy's client roster includes bothrestaurants and CPG food brands.
(02:17):
She has worked with over 200 brandsincluding large publicly traded
companies, but y'all she alsoloves to support small businesses,
small brands, and see them grow.
And she's here on the Savory Shot todayto talk about how she helps restaurants
decide which dishes to photographwhen they are doing a full menu shoot.
(02:42):
I know I say this every episode, buty'all, this was my favorite interview.
Nancy changed the way Iapproach my restaurant shoots,
how I choose my shot lists.
This episode is so great.
So I'm going to get right into it.
I know y'all got places to go,things to do, people to see, all
that jazz, businesses to run.
(03:03):
So grab your coffee, grab a pen andpaper, whatever it is that you need to
get through this episode, grab it righthere and now, and let's start the show.
(03:46):
Nancy, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
So I want to start this off by askingyou about your intro to food photography.
You've worked in other nichesof photography before finding
yourself in food photography.
So what initially drewyou to food photography?
(04:07):
The economy got tighter and phonecameras got better and better.
So I needed to branch out of portraits.
I didn't want to sacrifice myweekends to do weddings, even
though they pay really well.
I stumbled my way intoproduct photography.
It was a local jeweler whoasked me to take some pictures.
I may have done her son'sportraits at some point.
(04:29):
And then later I expanded my way into foodphotography and the leftovers don't suck.
The leftovers don't suck at all.
You hit it on the nail about weddings.
I did that for about a year and itwas a good moneymaker, but it's not
(04:50):
just the weekends I had to sacrifice.
I didn't like something happeningthat I had seconds to fix.
Out of all of the niches that you exploredin addition to food photography, which
other niche speaks to you the most?
Probably just product photography.
(05:12):
I really am drawn toanything that's food centric.
I've done some vitamins and supplements,which you can argue maybe it's the health
sector and maybe it's food photography,but it still feels like food photography
to me because I can pair the ingredientswith it or the flavor profiles.
The place where the vitaminscome from in nature, and then it
(05:35):
feels more like food photography.
I'd consider vitamins andsupplements food centric.
I'm taking chaseberry for my periods.
I don't even know what that is,but it is helping me it's been
around the world and I like it.
But product photography, what Ilike about product photographies,
(05:56):
you can get so creative andyou don't need that much space.
In addition to being a photographer,you do graphic designing,
styling, and you're an educator.
How do all of these skills helpthe restaurants that you serve?
(06:17):
The graphic designing is a bigselling factor for me because
I understand empty space.
I know there needs to be a placefor text to go and the posters
point of sale in restaurants.
As a stylist, I'm aware when the platecomes out, it needs to be wiped or the
salad fluffed or whatever needs to bedone to the food, plated differently so
(06:38):
that the image will look better as well ascomposing hero shops with multiple dishes.
I have in my bag, different littlerisers and blocks that I'll tuck
underneath dishes so that I canoverlap them more and get more dishes.
I like to do things on in thescene and having less empty space.
Although I do have somefillers in my bag too.
(07:01):
Some different napkins and utensils totuck in little places so that it's not all
food, but so that it all feels relevant.
As a former educator, I'm also able toguide clients so I can explain to them
why certain things will benefit them.
Sometimes people will just go in and say,Oh, we need to do this, this, and this and
(07:22):
they don't know what's going on, and ifI can tell them why I do this, then now
I've taught them something, and they'remore receptive to my other requests.
I love that you pointed out aboutguiding them and holding their hand.
What surprises your clients themost whenever they work with you?
(07:43):
I have a breadth of knowledge.
Just last week, I was in a restaurantshooting for them, and I provided
some information on marketing.
I told them about Nextdoor.com.
I don't know if you have it in yourneighborhood, but Nextdoor.com is pretty
much everywhere now and restaurants cansign up for an account and post for free.
And then it's like automatically geofenced and most restaurants don't even
(08:08):
know the term geo fencing cause theyhave to hire an outside marketing person.
So I can give them a littlebit of an education about that.
They can do something that benefitsthem and they're like, wow, this
photographer came in and gaveme this information for free.
I want them to succeed because I wantthem to be around when they need more
pictures and then they'll call me back.
Exactly.
(08:29):
Exactly.
It's like you succeed.
That means future work for me.
That means established relationship.
I like that you mentioned Nextdoorbecause most restaurants tend to gravitate
towards automatically is Instagram.
And they find themselves frustratedthat they aren't reaching.
Honestly, the majority of restaurantsI go to, I find through Yelp and the
(08:51):
photos are what sells me on Yelp.
Put your best photos on Yelp.
So you mentioned in your intakeform that before you meet with any
new client you do your homework.
What kind of homework do you doand how does that prep you for your
first consultation with your client?
First before you meet with them,you need to cyber stalk them.
(09:14):
Scour their website.
Google profile, Yelp media handlesand compare that to their menu.
What dishes are missing?
Which dishes alreadyhave really good photos?
Or which dishes photograph really well,but they're all shot from the same angle?
Or what dishes might pair wellwith another when you want
to do a grouping together?
Or, do you want to juxtapose twothings that are contradictory?
(09:37):
When we were very first married,my husband and I, we used to be
regulars at a restaurant in theneighborhood where we lived and it
was fish and chips and Thai food.
And it was a really, lovely littleThai family and they had a fish and
chip shop and they made the best curry.
So we never even got fish andchips there, but I think that was
(09:57):
really their bread and butter thejuxtaposition of those two things.
I did photograph very similarly inSanta Barbara, a little diner that
was typical diner breakfast, butit was a Chinese couple and they
had great Chinese food as well.
So I think there's a lot of restaurantslike that out there where someone wants
to share their culture with everyoneelse, but already established something
(10:20):
in that particular brick and mortar.
If you can put those together ina picture and show the world that.
You can get both of thesethings at this place.
Then now this one pictureis telling multiple stories.
Oh man.
And when your clients reach out toyou, do they often know what it is that
(10:42):
they're seeking from you besides photos?
Do most of them have an ideaof what they're looking for?
Are they rebranding or are theyjust we need new photos or we've
expanded, so we need something more.
Do you find that the homeworkthat you do on them matches
what they're coming to you for?
(11:03):
Like their problem areas matchwhat you notice in their website.
I, I think that most restaurantsdon't know what they need, and
the restaurant business is hard.
They just know they need help.
A picture's worth a thousand words,and everyone knows that we eat with our
eyes first, I need a photographer, andI want the pictures to be really good.
(11:24):
So then, they start Googling.
Searching, however it is they search.
Pinteresting or Instagramming or whatever.
They find a picture that they thinklooks good and then they reach out.
You're like, Hey, help.
This is what I need.
Recently had a restaurant reach outto me and fortunately didn't work out
because their budget was very smalland they're a very small restaurant.
(11:48):
But they they searched food photographerGoogle, and they did like a spray and
pray method where they just reachedout to a bunch of photographers,
because I was really confusedwhy they were reaching out to me.
I thought maybe they're rebrandingand want punchy, dramatic
photos, which is what I do.
Their website had super, natural,soft light, beautiful, but
(12:11):
it did not match what I did.
So I was really confused.
Like they were reaching out to meand I asked them, what appealed and
they're like, Oh we Googled you,we Googled food photographer and
saw that you had nice pictures.
I thought well, you're not ready tobuy, ready to buy because that's,
that was your qualification.
I have nice photos Have you everfound yourself in a situation like
(12:34):
that and how did you handle that?
There have been a couple times wherepeople will send me, Oh, here's a
Pinterest board I made or a whateverinspiration board that they have.
And when it doesn't matchmine, I have to say, these are
the kind of pictures I have.
Because, I've seen your work and it isbeautiful, but it is nothing like mine and
(12:56):
the client is not right for both of us.
And that's part of my contractand it should be part of every
photographer's contract is that,you have the line in there that they
have seen your work and that theyunderstand what your work looks like.
So there are no surprises.
You mentioned something earlierabout being a former educator.
Sorry about that.
And that your skills as a former educatorinvolves with guiding your clients
(13:22):
and, helping them with choosing dishes.
So my question is how do you guideyour clients in helping them choose
the dishes that really matter to them?
Or should matter.
It all starts with a series of questions.
You can't just walk inthere ready to shoot.
(13:42):
You've already developed a shotlist them or in some cases, they
might have a shot list for you.
But when it's those restaurantsthat they're like, we just need a
photographer, we need to do somethingthen, or maybe they don't even know how
many pictures they need or what it is.
You know that sometimes theydon't know how many pictures I
need or how much money they have.
(14:02):
I'm like, I really need one of those two.
But here's where we can start.
We know that you don't have thebudget for a full menu shoot, right?
Let me ask you a bunch of questions.
They range from do youhave any marketing goals?
Often the answer is no, they don'tknow what they are and that's okay.
I can help identify some itemsthat they can push that will
help drive their success.
Then they can have a longerconversation about marketing goals.
(14:26):
Ask if they have any seasonal items.
Oh, if the answer is yes, it's perfectbecause when that picture's out of
season, they might have me back and ifit's in season, then maybe it's new on
their menu and their customers who havebeen there before, haven't seen it.
And so we want to be able to showcasethat so people know that it looks
(14:49):
good and I want to order that.
Photographing the seasonal thing helpsthem because it gets the word out and then
it also helps me because when it's outof season there's a new seasonal item.
I ask if there's specialtiesor signature dish.
You know their best sellers.
They probably already thoughtabout what their specialty is and
what their best seller is, but thething they often overlook is what
(15:13):
is their biggest profit margin?
If they're a business person,they've probably thought about it.
But a lot of restauranteursaren't business people first.
They're in there for the passion of food.
They haven't thought about, Oh,I should be pushing this because
I make twice the amount of profitas I do on this other dish.
If we show people this picture, thenthey're going to see it and want it.
(15:33):
Maybe I have this picture in mymind and I keep thinking about
it and then I finally go to thisrestaurant and I'm going to order it
because I've been thinking about it.
I also like to ask if there's any dishesthat look different than the traditional
version of that dish, because if a persongoes in and they say, I want this thing,
and then I order this thing and it doesn'tlook like that, then now I'm surprised.
(15:54):
I'm not really sure if I'm going tolike it or not, but if we get people
excited about, Oh, they do this thingso different than everyone else.
Then I can show them andwe can talk about it.
It lends itself to good captionwriting and having a picture of
it will drive sales on that too.
I also ask about texture.
Is there anything that has a fancy sauceor a wow factor that can be showcased?
(16:18):
We've gone through all of thesedifferent questions, and now I've
got a sense for where, now we cantalk about what dishes to feature.
That's super in depth.
Restaurant owners, chefs don'tthink about textures in a dish,
a sauce is a certain color.
I mean, unless they've worked with aphotographer, but most of them haven't.
(16:41):
So I imagine that all of that canbe overwhelming trying to make
those decisions and dwindle it down.
Does that often happen with themhow do you help them through that?
Okay, I asked them six to eight questionsdepending on the restaurant, and that
gives me some information so I cando, I call it the Give, Get, Give, Get
(17:02):
method, but I think it's really justcalled the Give, Get method, and I think
it's a sales strategy for negotiations.
The way it works for me is I have allthese answers that they've just had and
we haven't written down any dishes yet.
They probably are thinking in their head.
This one's by signature dish we're goingto do that, but i've now opened their eyes
(17:22):
up to profit margin textures garnishescolors, so now I have their answers
and i'm going to start with whatever,has their biggest visual appeal, right?
People eat with their eyes first,and so now they're going to get,
I'm going to give them one andwhat dish is your prettiest dish?
(17:43):
If they can't answer that question,then I need to flip the question
quickly so that they're notdwelling on not knowing the answer.
I'll say, what dish looksmore appetizing than others?
Then we add that to the list.
Yeah, because we're notphotographing chili.
Although I did recently.
(18:03):
Thanks for
me of
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Maybe you can drown it in green.
Make the brown a littlebit more appetizing.
Just chives, chives, chives.
Now they've, they've given me an answer.
So yes, we have this on our list.
We definitely did photographthis other one thing.
I've told you this one thing, you'vegiven me an answer to my question.
(18:25):
Now we can reflect back on whatwas that biggest profit margin if
that's not one of the first two.
And now here's my second one, so thennow we're like ready for our fourth
item and I can ask them anotherquestion, is there a hidden gem?
Are there any new items?
Because if it's new people haven'tseen it and they need to see it.
So they'll order it.
(18:46):
If they can answer that one we canadd that one on I just need to quickly
spin it to another question becauseI don't want them to drown in their
thoughts and second guess themselves.
Have a anxiety or identity crisis.
They're like, Oh, my God.
And they already just a few minutes agotold me what their showstopper was when
I said, what's your prettiest dish?
So I can say, okay what'sthat showstopper again?
(19:09):
Describe it to me.
And then they tell me, Oh, ithas this garnish or this sauce.
I'm like, Oh yes.
The contrast of the green withthe red is complimentary colors
and that's going to be fantastic.
Let's do that.
Or, Oh, are you using, flatparsley or, curly parsley.
I can guide them into being excitedabout it, and then we add that one on.
And so it's going back and forth.
(19:29):
It's this banter of me guidingyou, Oh, we need to do this.
Now you telling me what you want todo next, even though I asked you the
question so that you answered it.
And then now we havefour on our list, right?
Now I need to educate them a littlebit more and tell them about variety.
Because of variety, it'sthe spice of life, right?
(19:49):
You can get variety from typesof dishes or range of dishes.
Is it appetizers and mains and desserts?
Or is it shapes?
Burritos and tacos and enchiladas.
Or is it categories?
Soups and sandwiches and baked things.
We talk about different types of variety.
Do you have a preference?
How do we want to portrayvariety in this selection?
(20:10):
This is what we have so far.
Are they all the same color?
Are they all the same shape?
Let's get another one in there.
Whatever it is that we're doing tomake variety, now we identify this
fifth item so that we have variety.
We're filling a gap, and now wehave a pretty good selection.
I can do individual shots and I canpair a couple together and I could do
(20:31):
threesomes of the five, I can do all five.
I can switch it up and take it from there.
Maybe there might even be a modifierwhere I get extra bonus item, right?
So if there's a salad and you canadd a chicken or a salmon on top
of it, we'll shoot it naked firstand then we'll add the chicken and
then we'll swap out the salmon.
We don't even have as muchfood waste here, but now I
(20:52):
have three different dishes.
I love that.
In the past when I've worked withrestaurants, I've just left a lot of
the choosing to them, or just said, Okaywhat do you want to photograph and not
really walked them through the process.
Hearing you talk about the give,get, method for guiding your clients,
(21:15):
it sounds like even though you'rephotographing five to six dishes, I
still feel like I'm getting a good viewof what kind of restaurant it is and
whether I'm going to enjoy the food.
You mentioned that you have a dishselection checklist for restaurant owners.
How can photographers create a checklistof their own to get ready for a shoot?
(21:39):
Or is there a template that you havethat you share with other photographers?
Yeah, I'm giving it away as a freebie.
I'm a big believer incommunity over competition.
I can't go to all the restaurantsand I want all the restaurants
to succeed because I want them tohave competition within each other.
So then they strive for excellence.
(22:00):
Because if we only have onechoice, they're all going to
be the same and bland, so letthem all know all my secrets.
And so I have this freebie, and it'sgood for restaurants or photographers.
Either one can use it.
It's generic enough that it can be usedby almost any kind of restaurant or
(22:20):
food truck it doesn't matter whetherthey're auditing their library of
images, social media feed, GoogleMy Business, or what images are
they've posted on their Yelp profile.
Using this will help make sure they havea really good mix of several dishes.
Some of the items on the checklist, it's.
You know, I, I threw things together.
(22:41):
And some of them is just a single item.
Do you have an item and then othersis, does your mix meet this criteria?
So some of the check boxes, you haveto actually have multiple items in
order to check that one off, but it'squite satisfying to check them off.
And if you don't check them off,then it gives you a goal to work for.
I love when I meet other photographerswho believe in community over competition.
(23:07):
It boils down to just really wanting tosee others succeed in a tough industry.
I don't understand peoplewho don't believe in that.
Has this belief always been apart of you since a younger age
or is it something you fell into?
When I was in my late twenties, I enteredthe world of high school teaching.
(23:28):
I taught high school photographyand guided students through
the AP portfolio process.
I helped them decideon their concentration.
And I got to show them that like, you knowwhat, yours can look totally different
than yours and they both be awesome.
In the world of restaurants, I want togo on vacation and I want there to be an
awesome restaurant there needs to be aphotographer capturing that restaurant so
(23:51):
that I can find it when I go on vacation.
That's where I am with thefood photography world of
community over competition.
Oh, man.
And for me, it's noteven just restaurants.
It's, I have a real deep specialspot in my soul for local mom and
pop restaurants, because those arejust places that you can't replicate.
(24:17):
So I want to move to yourapproach to lighting.
And when you're working indifferent restaurant environments,
how do you approach how you'regoing to light the restaurant?
And does that impact what dishes youselect for the final dish selection?
I don't think that it's ever affectedmy dish selection, but I. I do.
(24:43):
I don't, I'm amazed myself.
How did I used to shootbefore raw pictures?
Like, when I used to shoot inJPEG and only use Photoshop?
I love so much on the table.
Hey photographers, if you're notshooting in RAW and using Lightroom
Classic, man, give it a try.
(25:05):
Lightroom Classic.
I still keep forgetting to call itLightroom Classic because I'm just
so used to calling it Lightroom.
I have three different versions ofLightroom downloaded in different devices.
I'm like, I can't keep up with this.
Yeah, I taught community collegephotography and one of the 20 something,
(25:25):
20 ish year old kids who was in the classsays to me why are we using this old one?
Why are we using Lightroom Classic?
And I'm like, oh no, no.
It's the good one.
I promise you.
Like, you're fine.
Yeah,
You're fine.
I had to show him how you could dothings in classic that you can't
(25:46):
do in non classic I don't know.
They will have to pry LightroomClassic from my cold dead fingers.
Like I mostly shoot a tether to CaptureOne these days, but I still have my my
Lightroom Classic catalog, and I takedeep pride in how organized it is.
(26:07):
So my Lightroom catalogfrom college was a mess.
My teacher shamed me in front of thewhole class about how disorganized it was.
Ever since that happened, I was like,I'm not going to get caught slipping.
I'm a Virgo.
We're known for being organized.
He put it up on the big screen andhe's like this is not how you do it.
(26:27):
After that, I took deep pride inkeeping everything pristine, organized,
clipped, tagged, all that jazz.
But going back to your approach tolighting, when you go into a restaurant,
what's the first thing that usuallycomes to mind or that you look out for?
If I'm shooting a small job.
I'm not gonna do a lighting setup.
(26:48):
You're not paying me to bringin multiple trips from my car.
I can pack quite a bit on my person.
I've figured out how to balancemy tripod inside my prop bag, and
I have my backpack that holds mycamera and lenses and the computer.
I've got another bag so I can get in andstill be able to fit it to go box in my
bag when my going, making my way out.
(27:10):
But, if I'm shooting justnatural or available light, I
still believe in reflecting.
So I do have a reflector when Iwas teaching both college and high
school photography, I made sureeveryone knew it's accessible.
(27:31):
You can go to the dollar store, buy a rollof foil and break down an old Amazon box.
Now you have yourself a 99 cent reflector,which probably works just as good as
my fancy one, but it doesn't fold upinto a magic circle that fits in a bag,
Heck, even getting it to fold ina magic circle is hard enough.
My goodness.
(27:51):
Could they make that any more difficult?
I love creating tools withas little as possible.
Use what you have with theresources that you have.
So another question about the restaurants.
How long have you been workingwith restaurants specifically?
(28:14):
I think I actually, I think Ihad to look on my in my files
when I filled your intake form.
I want to say it was eight.
Is it eight years now?
So in the eight years, how hasrestaurant photography evolved?
And where do you see it goingin the next three years?
I think we're still going tobe eating with our eyes, right?
(28:38):
It can create hunger.
Have you ever tried watching the FoodNetwork when you're not hungry and then
a half an hour later, you're hungry.
The struggle is real.
When you're on a diet, you shouldnot be watching cooking shows.
So that's the power of thevisual image right there.
We all know it.
So I don't think thatphotography is going away.
And I think that restaurants needto concentrate on what they can
(29:02):
do and outsource what they can.
There's always gonna be,Yelpers and Instagrammers.
Whatever platform is popular 40 years fromnow, that's gonna be needing images too.
I can only imagine what platformwill be popular 40 years from now.
It cracks me up that my nieces and nephewstry to teach me about social media.
(29:25):
I'm like, I'm an elder millennial.
I was here when it started.
You have nothing to teach me.
I teach you.
I've noticed some restaurants usingAI images on their social media posts.
I don't know if they thinkthey're fooling anyone.
They look so obvious.
How do you feel about AI imagesincreasingly appearing on social media?
(29:48):
Some of them flat out look creepy.
Okay.
We can just admit that.
They really do.
And if you can do an AI image andget the hands right, you should get
some brownie points though, becausethe AI hands, those are extra creepy.
There's like eight of them.
That are so creepy.
And then also.
If you've ever messed around withthe AI image generation, if there's
(30:11):
a sign in the background or alabel, it misspells all the time.
You generally spells better than me, butin their images, they always misspell.
But that being said, I have usedAI to edit some of my pictures,
but I keep the integrity of it.
It's fine to do patches here and there forediting but if you're photographing it.
(30:33):
AI is only proving theimportance of photographers
because of the prompt generator.
As long as I still have a creativevision, it doesn't matter what
this restaurant owner puts in.
They're hiring me for my creativevision my creative skill.
I'm worried about thepeople who refuse to use it.
But those photos do look creepy.
(30:53):
Yeah.
But there's a saying though, that AIis not going to take anyone's job.
A person who can use AI betterthan you can might take your job.
AI is saving restaurants money in thesense that if I need to retouch something.
Do you remember in the days of the clonestamp where you're hitting, option touch,
click a million times to get that roundbowl with just that chili that I mentioned
(31:14):
that I just recently shot in December.
It was in a paper bowl.
Paper you can't wipe off like a real bowl.
And so I just drew a littlecircle around it, and then I told
AI to clean up the edge, and itwas a perfectly patched circle.
The curves, those were theworst for clone stamping.
It's certainly a time saver.
(31:37):
The kitchen didn't have to replay it.
I didn't have to wait for it.
I didn't have to spend a millionclicks to get that curve cleaned
up, and now the image is fixed.
I've also used it to add some seasonaltouches to some pictures for a
restaurant that I do their social media.
Santa Claus hands holding the tray oftacos, as opposed to the human hands
(32:01):
that were holding the tray of tacos.
Love that so much.
Yeah, and it's still my tray of tacos.
I, it's my photograph, right?
So adding little things I think is okay.
I don't know, is it like in movies,there were a certain percentage of the
script has to match the actual truestory for it to be based on a true story.
(32:22):
There's gotta be some percentage of photosthat, but I don't know what that is.
You hit it on the nailabout how it's the tacos.
Being authentic.
The food they're looking at is thefood they'll see at a restaurant.
With restaurants creating AI images,they run a very dangerous line.
A customer might say, this is whatI saw in the photo, and this looks
(32:45):
nothing like what you delivered.
And then they have to say, Oh,well, we created that in AI.
In a couple of years, it's going to be asexpected as having filters on your photos.
I want to finish theinterview with two questions.
What advice would you give to someonenew to the food photography world
who wants to work with restaurants.
(33:07):
What's the best approachto get into that industry?
Start with shooting what you like, right?
People are gonna find your workand they're gonna resonate like,
oh, that looks like my restaurant.
So if you're shooting for high end, don'tbe posting pictures of tacos and burritos.
I'm in Southern California.
I love a taco.
(33:29):
And you know us Texans love tacos too.
So if you're good with shooting from atruck, I mean, I, I shoot for a truck
regularly and they're permanentlyparked outside a brewery, which
is my husband's favorite brewery.
So it works out well for us.
So shoot what you like, but don'tshoot without a signed contract.
Yes.
(33:49):
Yes to all of that.
Yes.
Signed contract.
Yeah get one that's from yourstate, who do generic contracts
that you can buy a template from.
I will admit that my firstcontract, I hodgepodge from, I
pulled this line from this one.
Oh, this sounds like a good clause.
I'm going to have that in there.
And then I finallyponied up for a real one.
At least have something, and if youcan't afford having someone do one
(34:12):
totally for you, find a real lawyer inyour state you can buy the template from
that's specifically for photography.
And there are even organizationsthat will do it for free,
like they're creative based.
That do it for free or for very low cost.
But I like what you said aboutfinding an actual lawyer, draft a
(34:36):
contract for you that you can userepeatedly just so you know that you're
protected and your work is protected.
My second little pearl of wisdom forphotographer starting out is don't be
afraid to send an ugly dish back to thekitchen or offer to replate it because
if it doesn't look good, a fresh garnishor retossing a salad can really make
(34:59):
a difference in what you can capture.
But if it's ugly, you're not going to,you're going to have an ugly picture.
And
Yeah.
There's no editing that's gonna save that
Yeah be aware of the whole environmentis another little pearl for me.
A second background that matchesthe vibe of the restaurant or
the color story of the brand.
One of the places that I'm on retainerfor, so I shoot for them regularly.
(35:21):
These yellow chairs.
Not all of the chairs are yellow.
The other ones are teal, but I nevershoot on them because their brand
color, yellow is, the same as chair.
They have three different tabletops,but there's one in particular that
I like better than the other two.
So I always shoot at the same tablebecause I like it's surface better.
And then I will also pull one of theyellow chairs over and take that dish and
(35:44):
I will shoot it on that table that I like.
Then I will move over and I will put iton that chair and do a top down and a 45.
With that yellow background.
It looks a regular background when youdon't see the edge of the chair Sometimes
there might be a feature wall next to theentrance and if it's the brand's color
or vibe hopefully it's vibing, right?
(36:05):
So shoot the same dish on multiplebackgrounds that all match with the vibe.
If your contract was for 20 images andyou show them more images then they're
going to want to opt into the extras too.
Oh, for sure.
Oh, for sure.
The one thing that, that Ialways forget to do, which.
(36:27):
I know, here's me preaching to myself,take some behind the scenes pictures.
Oh, that's a big one.
Yes.
I have an Apple watch and I havean iPhone, I can use that watch
as a remote and I should be takinga picture of myself all the time,
but I very rarely remember to.
Oh, gosh.
Cause you're in the middleof a shoot and you just get.
(36:49):
I was telling my husband this, Isaid, you don't understand.
The photographer's brain is real.
You show up and you hold your camera andyou're like shaking it like a monkey.
Like you've never seen the thing before.
I've spent years crafting, butas soon as the shoot starts, it's
like all logic leaves the door.
That's why your assistant is wonderful.
That's why having a teambehind you is great.
(37:10):
So that he can think for youbecause your brain disappears.
Yes, like your brain disappears on whereyou put your lens cap, so if you can
always put it in the same spot, likethe side pocket of my camera bag or rear
left pocket, but I'm not always wearingrear left pocket, so that didn't work.
So I go with the side pocket of thecamera bag because it's always with me.
(37:32):
Otherwise, I don't know.
I spent my first three yearsof photographing looking for my
lens cap at the end of every job.
The final question that I havefor you is what do you hope that
listeners gain from today's episode?
I think just the whole point of this isso that everyone can be successful, right?
(37:53):
I want restaurants to succeed, and wecan all share our wisdom with each other.
If we can all come up with a greatshot list, and if someone else
comes up with some great things thatthey want to share with me, I'm all
ears, they can DM me on Instagram orthere's a contact form on a website.
When you're working with smallerbrands, they're not usually ready
(38:16):
to commit to a full menu shoot.
Hopefully I've broken down some questionsto ask and how to guide them and, and
that puts them at more comfortablelevel to trust you with their pictures.
Now I know I said I had one lastquestion and I asked that question,
but here's the really last question.
What keeps you working withrestaurants after eight years?
(38:38):
The leftovers don't hurt, butno, in reality, I'm a foodie.
I see restaurants making thingsthat I wouldn't make at home
and I get to appreciate it.
Cooking is a passion.
They're sharing in mostcases, their culture.
By sharing everyone's culturewith each other, we have
learned more about the people.
If we know about the people, thenwe can appreciate the people.
(39:05):
I love that.
It's a way, it's a form of love.
It's a form of love.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
First of all, for coming on the show.
I want to get my hands on that checklist.
I feel like that would change so much forhow I approach working with restaurants.
Where can the listeners follow you,find you, get their hands on the
(39:30):
checklist, the dish selection checklist.
Where can we find you?
I'm on Instagram as The Creative Resourceand my website is nancyingersoll.com.
That's I N G E R S O L L for my last name.
And.
I have the checklist was shouldbe in the show notes too.
Yeah.
(39:50):
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah, you can grab it off.
Yeah.
And the show notes.
You can also, I'm going toadd it to my link tree too.
So you should be able to pullit off my Instagram as well.
If you send me a message in thecontact me form on my website, I
can also send you a link to it.
One, one reason why I came up withthat checklist was when I started doing
(40:10):
social media management for a restaurantlike I needed to see what the mix
was that I needed for their library.
I inherited this library of images.
It was just this random photo dump.
And then I augmented that withsome of my own photos that I
took just on a mad shoot a fest.
And then I had to be like,okay, wait, what do I need?
(40:33):
And so I developed that listand I'm here to share it.
I keep telling you this lastquestion, last question, and then
something pops up in my mind.
So I'm so sorry, but where didthe name, The Creative Resource,
what's the story behind that?
I was a little bit lost at first.
All I knew is that Iwas a creative, right?
(40:57):
I taught high school photographyand I also did graphic design and
I was doing freelance photographyand freelance graphic design.
Everything I did was creativeand I was a resource for people.
Someone asked, what should I call myself?
To say that I'm a graphic designer aphotographer and a this and a that.
(41:19):
That's too much of a mouthful.
I need one all encompassing catchphrase.
Then someone said you'rea creative resource.
Oh no, I'm the creative resource.
I love that so much.
I love that so much.
And it was so fitting for all of theskills that you bring to the table.
Okay, that really was the last question.
(41:41):
Nancy, thank you again so much forcoming on the show for signing up
and filling out the guest intakeform like really, I thank you so much
for being here on The Savory Shot.
It was, and you know, I love Savory Shot,and I quite frankly, I was a little bit
like sad when there was that gap thereat the end of the year, and I'm like, Oh
(42:03):
my gosh, I need to fill out this guestintake form because I need something
to listen to when I walk to the dog.
I am really excited that I'mback and ready to charge forward.
I missed you guys.
So I'm glad to be back.
Oh, we are glad you're back.
Yay!
Yay!
Oh my gosh.
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