Is Critical Race Theory compatible with Christianity? Join Meeke Addison and guest Bryan Osborne as they discuss the biblical response to CRT on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast! Bryan shares three vital questions every Christian should use in cultural conversations, explores what it means to stand on God’s authority, and explains why answers rooted in Scripture truly change hearts and lives. This episode is packed with practical wisdom for parents, educators, and anyone seeking to engage culture for God’s glory.
Highlights:
• The authority of God’s Word vs. man’s word
• How to ask questions that reveal the real issues with CRT
• Mentoring kids to think biblically and critically
• The importance of gospel-centered engagement, not just winning arguments
Recommended Resources:
Woke Injustice: A Biblical Response to Critical Race Theory, by Bryan OsborneToxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion, by Allie Beth Stuckey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What's really driving what's happening in our culture is a
rebellion against God's word rooted in sin, which goes back
to the fall of man back in Genesis chapter 3.
We understand the solution is the good news of the gospel of
Jesus Christ. The power is not in the answer
itself. The power is not in my ability
to communicate it. The power is in the Word of God.
The power is in God and His Spirit.
(00:20):
Everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
I'm Miki, and our guest this week is Brian Osborne, and this
is Part 2 of our conversation about critical race theory and
his book Woke Injustice, a Biblical response to Critical
race theory. Before we finished the last
podcast, we were solving the world's problems.
And so of course, we ran out of time because there are lots of
(00:43):
problems. There are.
Lots of problems, that's true. We're going to pick up with that
this week, but before we do, I do want to say a huge thank you
to one of our sponsors, and thatis BJU Press Homeschool.
Thank you so much for sponsoringthe Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
Their materials won't just equipyou for a successful homeschool
journey. They'll prepare your child for a
future full of possibilities so that your child can confidently
(01:06):
move from homeschool ready for the world and whatever it is
that God has for them next. They've crafted their curriculum
to give you the tools you need that are rooted a solid biblical
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(01:26):
and the unique learning styles of your children.
And they have both online and parent LED formats to fit your
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(01:50):
with all six of our children. They each have a different way
that they learn and BJU Press homeschool has been phenomenal
and responding to their needs. So check them out at
bjupresshomeschool.com. OK Brian, it is always such a
joy to talk with you. Like I just it.
It feels like the kinds of conversations Christians ought
(02:11):
to be having, right? That there are real issues in
the world and the Bible is a real response.
Amen. Yeah.
Well, it's always a privilege tochat with you.
Truly. Is that fun doing so?
I think we laugh quite a bit, which is great.
Well, you can laugh in light of CRT, that's saying something.
That's that's. Right, it's.
So true. If you don't laugh, you cry.
Maybe, but. And and maybe you do both
(02:32):
because maybe you're so maybe you're so grieved.
You know, I told my husband at the height like the rise of
critical race theory. I said, you know, listen, you
know, there, if you want some fast cash, all we've got to do
is make a quick jog. We could go into DEI like
oversight, like we could get a six figure jokingly daily
(02:55):
income, just telling people how horrible they are and then
promoting this to kids. Like, Can you imagine what we
could do? And you know, the running joke
is yes, but but at the cost of your soul.
That's right, right. My point is this, everywhere you
look, there were people cashing in on this, as you described in
Allie Beth Stuckey's book, whichI need to check out.
(03:16):
Toxic empathy, right? The people are being led by
their emotions rather than led by the Spirit of God and led by
the oversight of God's Word. Talk a little bit about defining
terms, like we talk about diversity, equity, and
inclusion. We talk about justice.
How is it that the world uses those terms and we find
(03:38):
ourselves using the terms, but we think they mean something
different? Yeah, well, what I've found in
the last probably 15 years of talking about origins and
talking about evolution, age of the earth, and now connected to
social issues like gender, sexuality and also CRT, is that
defining deterrence is of the utmost importance.
It really is, you know, and I'veactually come up with three
(03:58):
questions I think every Christian should have in their
holster ready to engage people with.
And they're really simple. First one is what do you mean by
that? As you're engaging someone on a
topic, If you're talking about justice, critical race theory,
you're talking about evolution, whatever.
What do you mean by that word? You know, for like evolution,
for example, when someone says evolution, well, do you mean by
evolution, natural selection, adaptation, speciation, dogs,
(04:20):
mcdogs, cats, cats? We agree with that.
That's what the Bible teaches. That's what science confirms.
No problem. But do you mean everything from
nothing and life from non life and information from non
thinking matter? No, we don't agree with that.
Science rebuts that and God's word doesn't teach that.
But what do you mean when we talk about justice?
What do you mean by justice? Do you mean the right attitudes
and words and responses towards people and lie with God's word
and his nature? OK.
(04:42):
Or do you mean like the neo Marxist critical race theory
definition which is redistributing wealth and
societal power from the oppressors to the oppressed
based on superficial characteristics like skin shade
which is what CRT is. It's not only racist.
But what do you mean by justice?Define your terms or diversity,
equity and inclusion? What do you mean by those words?
(05:02):
And if you will simply define onyour terms with people you're
engaging, you can come to see fairly quickly that you can find
out you're not on the same page,right?
That the words may sound familiar, but they don't mean
the same thing. And I remember the the famous
philosopher from The Princess Bride.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you
think it means. That's right.
That's. Right, that's what we see all
(05:23):
the time with all these sorts ofthings.
And so #1 define your terms. Great question.
How do you know? Second question is, or what do
you mean? The same question is how do you
know? In other words, what is your
authority? How do you know that to be true?
How do you reach that conclusion?
But what is your foundational source?
What is your authoritative source to reach that conclusion?
And when you ask that question, what you're forcing someone to
(05:43):
do is to actually understand they have an authority they're
appealing to, and they have two options on that authority.
Either it's God's word or it's man's.
If they're appealing to man's word, it's utterly arbitrary
because why trust one man over another?
They're just, it's an equal playing field with no absolute
truth. Ultimate authority is set apart.
So we're showing them you've gotan authority.
And if it's not man's word, if it's not God's word, it's man's
(06:04):
word, which is arbitrary. So how do you know?
And last one is why do you care?So to the non believer, why do
you care about justice? Why do you care about the plight
of this planet? Why do you care about the rights
of women and so forth? Now as a Christian, I've got
good reason to care about all those things rooted in God's
word and rightly understood. But why do you care?
Because if there is no God, if evolution is true, we'll just
(06:26):
rearrange pond scum. Why you care about justice?
One day we'll be extinct from the memory preserved.
Why care about any of this? But they care because they're
made in God's image, and they'restealing from the biblical
worldview and trying to use biblical arguments to argue
against the Bible. The fact they can argue at all
shows that they're wrong. But anyway, but three questions.
So what do you mean by that? How do you know and why do you
(06:47):
care? And that's good for any issue,
but especially engaging on issues of justice to define your
terms and to get on the same plane for the really to show
them, OK, this is what you actually think built on man's
word. This is what God's Word actually
says, built on that foundation to show there's a real
difference and that we're fighting really from a
foundational fight of authority,and we're trusting that they're
trusting man's word. Yeah, You know, it's so
(07:08):
interesting. I, I remember several years ago
when I was told that I was oppressed and I didn't know it,
that I, that I was, that I was avictim of white hegemony and
that I didn't know it. And what was interesting was
that I was actually, and this, this is important for the sake
of the conversation, but I was being told this by a white woman
who said that I didn't know thatI was oppressed, right?
(07:31):
That I was oppressed by the man.And of course, I had never met
her before in my life. She was commenting on a post
that I made that was challengingcritical race theory and
operating in a public capacity. I always feel like I've made a
public statement. I am not going to take it
personally. If you publicly comment on that
statement, that's fine, right? But she started kind of getting
(07:52):
really personal. And one of the things that I
did, and this is to your three questions, is question #2 one of
the things that I did was I said, are you a Christian?
And she said, yes. And I said, then make a case for
me, your position. Make your case from God's Word.
Well, she came back with all of these links to the experts that
I needed to read all of the critical race theory, the Robin
(08:15):
D Angelo's and the, you know, Ibrahim X Kindy and all of these
people. And I just said, I just said,
let's say that I don't read yourbooks.
Make your case from God's word. And can I just tell you, Brian,
the conversation was over. Like when you challenge them, if
people invite you to play ball right, like you say, OK, yeah,
(08:35):
but let's use my ball, right? Like if you, if you we're going
to use my ball. And Megan, I don't trust your
ball and your ball is not reliable.
So we're we're let's play ball, but let's use my ball.
I think when Christians start doing that, it shows I trust
God's word. Like we, we can rely on his
word. He's not going to let us down.
We're not going to get out in the public square and be shamed.
But I do think that Christians kind of expect to be embarrassed
(08:57):
when they're having these conversations.
Oh, and to your point, talk about often here at the ministry
is that no matter what the issueis, there is no neutrality.
That's right, that doesn't exist.
Either you're with Christ or against either you walk in light
or you walk in darkness. Christ said either you gather
with me or you scatter. The mindset on the flesh is not
neutral towards God. It is hostile towards God.
(09:20):
There is no such thing as neutrality.
Make you to your point when our culture today says, hey, let's
meet over here, let's talk aboutsexuality or abortion or gender,
whatever, let's talk about that.So let's meet on neutral ground.
And they'll continue to say, andof course we don't believe the
Bible, so just leave the Bible out of the discussion.
Let's talk about this issue on neutral ground.
Well, if you agree to do that, they've just won right before
(09:44):
you even started the debate. Why?
Because you agree with their foundational premise that you
don't need the Bible for truth. You've agreed with them that
man's word is the ultimate authority.
Now we're just arguing over which man, me or you, which
person, me or you, but we still agree with their foundational
premise. And so if you give up biblical
authority, you've lost before you even started.
That's a terrible way to start adebate.
(10:05):
That's right, that we stand on God's Word.
It is our sword, it is our rock.We take every thought captive,
make it obedient to Christ. And Miki, what makes me ever
even more sad on this is that Christians, I think, give up
that authority, thinking they'redoing a right thing to reach out
to people. And actually it's the absolute
wrong thing. And they're given the foundation
that gives them a worldview, that gives them answers, that
(10:26):
gives them right understanding for empathy and compassion and
for love and for justice. Given up.
They've given up the house. They're getting biblical
authority when they've already got it all.
You've got it. Just stand, proclaim and defend.
And oh, don't forget, as you allknow, Mickey, it's not my words.
I have power. I can be very emotional.
I can get excited about it. I can say with sometimes
clarity, sometimes not. But sometimes it comes out good.
(10:47):
But no matter how good or bad mywords are, they have no power.
God's word has the power. God's Spirit is the power.
So I don't depend on myself, I depend on God's word.
What does He say? What are His precepts?
What is His good news found in His Word?
I share that truth in his word that changes heart, that changes
(11:08):
lives. Not belief, but God's Word.
If you give up God's word, you give up the power to do anything
that's right. And on that foundation?
That's amazing. And then and you've also said
you've also said that it's negotiable like that.
OK, Well, yeah, I can debate these issues.
That's one of the problems I had.
And maybe you want to speak to this a little bit, Brian, But
one of the problems I had was that as as critical race theory
(11:30):
started to really sort of fill our country, right?
Like, it it it sort of had this groundswell where, you know,
people were not familiar with these terms.
They were hearing them kind of here and there.
And then by the time it got to the point where people were
talking about it as they're picking their bananas at
Walmart, it's like, whoa, what is going every it's everywhere.
But at the same time, you had people arise to talk about these
(11:52):
things apart from the convictionthat the word of God is true.
And some of these people are very prominent in culture.
They have huge platforms, but they want to address these
issues void of God's Word. So they would talk about why
it's bad for the country. OK, yes, it is bad for the
country and it is tearing down the nation.
But there was a deeper spiritualissue that we've got to address
(12:15):
that a conservative talking headdoes not have the power to
address because that person is not relying on God's Word.
Talk about how Christians have aunique position when dealing
with these issues, even when ourcommentary overlaps with those
who would call themselves conservative.
Oh, it's so good. And I think it's so well said
(12:36):
and such a great setup because, you know, we can appreciate the
work of strong conservative voices in our culture.
I can appreciate the Charlie Kirk's of the world and those
who are giving a voice and giving good answers.
And we're budding really bad ideas in a very public way and
powerful. I can appreciate that for what
it is, but it doesn't get to theheart of the matter, which is
the issue of the heart. What's really driving what's
(12:58):
happening in our culture is a rebellion against God's word
rooted in sin, which goes back to the fall of man back in
Genesis chapter 3. And that if we understand that
the actual issue is sin at the heart, we understand the
solution is the good news of thegospel of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't mean we don't give answers, absolutely we do.
But two things. Number one, our answers have a
root and an absolute ultimate authority.
(13:20):
When a conservative who's not rooted in God's word gives a
good rebuttal to CRT or to whatever bad social issue, and
they're doing it based on just quick wit and common sense, they
would say that OK, but if it's not rooted in God's Word, it's
still just man's opinion. Yes.
So, you know, even if you're BenShapiro and you talk really fast
and you're really smart, OK, Butso just a person arguing with
(13:44):
another person, that's all it is.
Whereas if we say no, it's God'sword, that's the authority, then
we're saying no, you're arguing against God.
And by the way, Miki, that is sorefreshing for a Christian
because for most of us, we don'thave that Ben Shapiro quick wit.
We don't have the ability to think that fast or talk that
fast or have all these things atthe top of our mind to do all
(14:07):
that. But we don't have to.
Now, we need to be ready to giveanswers, yes, but those answers
are rooted in God's Word. And it's God's Word that carries
the weight to do the work in theperson's life.
And so that's a comfort to us, but also it's a real power
because we understand that the real issue is the issue of the
heart. Therefore, it must be God's
Word, God's gospel, and God's Spirit that does the work.
How do you have those things employed?
(14:28):
Through the proclamation of His Word, His truth and his God
possible and so we proclaim thistruth and that does the work.
And so if you want to see a realchange, real things happening in
the culture, yes, engage, pleaseengage.
Please give a biblical perspective on issues.
Please engage in the culture. Please vote rightly within
within the biblical worldview. Please yes, for love all do it,
(14:48):
but understand that as you engage in politics and as you
vote and as you engage people, that's not the answer.
The answer is the good news of Jesus Christ.
They'll change their heart that lead to long term multi
generational effects if God chooses to do so.
So that is our ultimate hope, not not crisis conservatives who
are doing some good. I'm not I'm not sad about it.
Please go out there. But but yeah, it's not that's
(15:12):
not our hope. And also, let me just say this.
I I do appreciate them and what they're doing.
But Miki, as Christians, we're called to do God's will, God's
way. We're not called to be snappy
cultural commentators. Come on.
Or not. And I mean, there's a place for
righteous anger. Don't misunderstand, But we're
called to love people. We are called to see people
(15:32):
repent. We want to see them turn to
Christ. And so we want to give the truth
in a loving way. So we give the truth in love.
And God cares about what we say,how we say it, and why we say
it, cares about all of that. And so we give truth in a loving
way to honor him. And through that God works.
And so although we can enjoy theanswers, must be sure we're not
(15:53):
acting like they are in the two places where it's just
sarcastic. No, we give truth in love
because we care about the personwe were, but really bad ideas
because the ideas come from the enemy.
And we care about the lost soul and proclaim truth, repent for
their faith in Christ. Amen.
I, I tell my, my oldest son, he's 15 and he's a, he's a
natural debater. He loves apologetics, but I tell
(16:14):
him all the time, but you're nottrying to win arguments.
You want to win souls And, and you need wisdom for that.
You need God's wisdom. I mean, you look at the people
that you mentioned, even just Charlie Kirk and, and Ben
Shapiro. So you look at them operating
with a lot, a tremendous amount of natural ability.
And I say to him, because he watches their videos, he watches
them, you know, on campus and all of this and, and he's
(16:34):
fascinated by it, you know, and I go look, they say what they're
doing. And that's that's, that's
fantastic, right? But imagine what the Lord wants
to do through you by the power of his spirit, where now you're
not just winning an argument, but maybe God gives you some
insight, you know, into the lifeof the person that you're
debating where you're going to. You didn't think about it ahead
of time, but the Holy Spirit's going to lead you in a direction
(16:56):
that maybe is going to cut to the quick of the issue that the
person is actually dealing with.Because sometimes the debate
topic is not the root issue in that person's heart.
Maybe the Holy Spirit wants to use you, wants to give you
insight that is not given to a person who has said to God, I
don't need you, right? Like, I mean, if you, you know,
and, and those things are great,but imagine what it would look
(17:16):
like to be like the disciples, right?
For people to be like, OK, you, you don't have all of that type
of education behind you. You don't have those world
travels behind you, but they would take note that you've been
with Jesus. There's there's something that
you shouldn't be able to do thatyou're doing, you know, we got
to take a break. But on the other side of this
break, I kind of want to stay inthis vein of talking about
(17:39):
equipping our kids. Because when we have this
conversation, there is a practical work for us to do that
we equip our kids with a response and with the
apologetics. But at the same time, we want
them to rely on the power of God's Word and the power of the
Holy Spirit to help them utilizewhat we've equipped them with in
(18:00):
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Boot camp. OK, Brian, let's just kind of
continue down this road that we're traveling.
We're talking about your book Woke and Justice and really I
all of the things right. We're we're talking about how we
(19:22):
engage for the glory of God in our culture and we just kind of
naturally started talking about kids.
Maybe I brought my son in and I'm curious to know how you
would equip parents to engage inthese kind of conversations with
their children. We possess knowledge.
We can see what's happening in the culture, but we don't want
(19:45):
to just give our kids a bunch ofinformation.
We want to connect their heart with the right conviction as
they utilize that information. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I so many great things said there and a great setup.
I would say a couple of things. Number one, we cannot pass on
what we don't possess. I think I spelled that from
Heidi Saint John, but I mean, you know, it's so true.
(20:06):
We can't. We got to be equipped ourselves.
We got to be equipped with answers for ourselves and we got
to be equipped with the right understanding of how to use
those answers, how to employ them in the right spirit in
submission to God's Word and hispower.
And so first. Maybe we want to practice what
we preach right before we even preach it.
And so we got to understand thatourselves.
And then as we engage our kids, we want to, yes, give them the
answers, But I think as we give them the answers, give them a
(20:28):
biblical worldview, teach them how to think biblically.
Something we talked about often here at the Ministry is to teach
Christians how to think from a biblical foundation, from a
biblical framework that it's really ultimately every issue is
about either God's word is your authority or man's word is
you're putting your faith in oneof the other.
So you put your faith in one foundational authority.
(20:48):
And so we want to teach them youstart with God's Word and then
you build your thinking from them.
As you are looking at cultural issues, you look at God's words.
You said earlier when you're talking to your kids, when they
ask you, what's mom, what do youthink about this?
Well, what does the Bible say about this?
Right? I want to line up with that.
And so we want to go to God's Word, teach them things
biblically. And yes, we want to give them
answers from God's Word, but also teach them how to go to it,
(21:11):
how to study it, how to find good resources and good other
ministries like Answers in Genesis to find detailed answers
that are rooted in God's Word. Help them to think biblically
and critically because inevitably as they get older,
they'll engage some new issue that's not been brought up
before that we've never really tackled before.
So if we taught them the thing from a biblical, authoritative
(21:31):
standpoint, then hopefully they will go and follow that format.
OK, Mom never addressed artificial intelligence.
It wasn't on the radar at the time we were in the house, but
here it is now. So if I as I engage this issue,
how do I think about this? Let me go to God's Word and
think about precepts that I can use to understand this right and
biblically work through this or whatever the new social issue,
(21:51):
moral issue may be in our culture later on down the road.
If you look at things like pedophilia has been doing
culture history. Why not?
Why not happen here in America now as we see a divergent away
from biblical authority. So many issues, and so as they
engage new issues, teach them how to go to God's Word.
And then also, as you already said earlier, kind of setting
up. We've got to teach them that the
power is not in the answer itself.
(22:13):
The power is not in my ability to communicate it.
The power is in the Word of God.The power is in God and His
Spirit and that we need to be prepared.
God has commanded us for all Christians to give an answer for
our faith, to constrain earnestly for the faith we are
to know God's Word, meditate on God's Word day and night, to
know it, to love it, to enjoy it, to share it, to teach it, to
(22:34):
teach our kids as they sit up, as they lay down, as you walk
along the way. Yes, we teach God's Word, but as
we are sharing it, we understandthat we're prepared.
We give it, but it's God's Word and His Spirit that does the
work. Amen.
And as you mentioned earlier, aswe're talking with someone that
may go down different paths, because really ultimately, no
rejection of God's Word is usually ultimately intellectual.
(22:58):
Only rarely does someone have just a purely intellectual
rejection of God's Word. You still have an intellectual
rejection of something. They'll disagree with something
some point, but there's typically some emotional, some
experiential, some psychologicalbaggage along with that that
comes along as part of that. Some experience something bad,
some bad things, some whatever. And so there's usually something
(23:19):
connected to that. And so as we're open to God's
Word and Spirit moving through us as we're engaging someone, we
give answers but also understandit's God's Word and we make it
on different paths as we engage people.
But we know that the power is not in US.
And we got to teach them that. And that goes directly against
our inclination, even as believers.
I mean, and I have to deal with this all the time because my
(23:40):
whole job is giving answers, right?
That's why I'm paid to do that. I'm paid to train people to do
that. And that's my inclination.
Like I like thinking that way. So I love what I do.
I would do this for free. Don't tell my boss, but I love
it. But you know, I've got to
realize, and God's taught me over the years that it's not
Bryan Osborne that changes anyone.
(24:01):
It's God. It's God, It's his Word, our
Savior, our Lord, our King, Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit,
God the Father. When they work in somebody's
life, that's when the lights come on.
That's when lives are changed. Now we can be a vehicle and a
medium through which God works as we obey him.
And that's the privilege we haveif we obey Him and are ready and
(24:21):
give an answer to defend the faith.
But it's God who does the work, which again takes away all.
It takes it off of us as a word right belongs, which is on God.
But also we have the accountability that we are to be
ready to give an answer and alsoto share in a way that's loving
to God. Not argumentative, but in truth,
boldly, uncompromisingly, but lovingly, with true empathy
(24:41):
towards those who need the truth.
We say it in God's Word and his love, and we see what God does.
And there's a great rest of that.
You know, it's, it's interestingyou just alluded to what is
probably like our our most we, this is our apologetics verse,
right? That we are ready to give a
reason for the hope that lies within us.
Like this is we're like I'm I'm get get me ready, get me ready.
(25:03):
But I want to have you unpack this a little bit because I've
made some observations as you read through first Peter and and
I want to get you to speak to this.
I believe that the readiness to have a response requires
countercultural living. Like when I read first Peter
before I get to 1st Peter 3:15, I've read first Peter chapter
(25:24):
one, first Peter chapter 2, and first Peter chapter 3.
One through 14, hopefully. Right?
That's exactly right because it's said in the context.
Well, that's a great point. But when I do read that, and I
read it in context, I am slappedin the face by the
countercultural living. I'm slapped in the face by the
submission to authority. I'm slapped in the face by the
submission to my husband, by howI engage my employer.
(25:47):
I'm slapped in the face by all of that.
That tells me the way you naturally want to live.
Don't live that way. Live in a different way.
And it tells me that there was going to be a question provoked,
like, why? Why are you not doing the thing
that everybody else is doing? You're doing something
differently. And I want to understand why
(26:08):
you're doing it. Well, then that is sort of the
platter for the gospel, right? I feel like we're not getting
there because we're living like everybody else.
Brian, what are your thoughts onthat?
Yeah, no, I think it's a great point and I think you're
absolutely right. It's all connected together.
It is all about how we are to live kind of culturally, even if
it even if it means we are persecuted.
(26:29):
And that's the context of first Peter.
It's persecution. Church is being persecuted.
And so they're called to still live in a way that is loving
towards others, that is submissive in line with God's
word, never, never contrary to God's word, but where you can be
where you're loving people rightly submitting and then
still living in a way that honors people even though they
may be persecuting you. And so how can you still, how
(26:49):
can you live that way? How can you love someone who's
actually actively hurting you? How can you and then it goes
intellectual issues, yes, how Can you believe the Bible with
evolution? How Can you believe the Bible
when we know the sexuality community you want it to be?
Yes, there are intellectuals issues issues in that, but it's
not just that it's the way you live.
It's the countercultural nature of all those things and the way
you still love people even though they're being very much
(27:11):
unloving towards you and all that Sis a stage for giving an
answer for our faith. And also note first Peter 315
says give an answer in meekness and in fear.
Amen. And so meekness is not being
unpowered, powerful, it's just power under control.
It is doing it. I'm going to share this truth
lovingly, controllingly in the fear of God, hoping that you
repent and put your faith in Christ.
(27:33):
That is what our goal. That is our hope.
And that's the entire context ofhow we should be living and
giving answers for our faith. And for so many people today,
It's so easy to get caught up inthe hostile nature of our
culture where it's all about snappy answers.
It's all about, you know, this person, you know, YouTube, you
see those little clips, you know, this person gets crushed
(27:55):
by this from this person or they're obliterated by this
response from this person. It's all about, you know,
demolishing and destroying your opponent.
And it's all about and we get caught up in that and make you
honestly, most of the time in ina Christian setting, if we're
doing that, that's rooted in pride.
That's right. And about let me, let me just
say something really quick too before I forget.
I've watched some Charlie Kirk videos and I will say this about
(28:16):
Charlie Kirk. I think he's professing
believer. I don't know his heart.
I'm not watched a whole lot, butI think he is Protestant, I
believe. But I will say this, typically
his interactions with college students, he's very respectful.
Now sometimes he does get he gets a hostile sometimes, but
overall, and it's a hostile environment.
Be fair to him. But over I've watched him many
times. I thought man, he actually
(28:37):
Christians could learn some stuff from watching him the way
he engages people to respect people he disagrees with via but
he still honors them as a human being made in God's image.
That's right. And we're going to treat people
at least that good, if not better to where we understand
they're made in God's image. We love them, honor them.
We're not called to obliterate them with a social media post
that's so good, the proclaimed truth.
(28:58):
And that's hard because in our pride, we want to win.
That's right. I was an athlete, not anymore.
I was way back in the day. But you know, and when you play,
you want to win and for debating, for engaging on
issues, that's how we tend to be.
We want to win and, and yes, I mean, we have the right answers
and by the way, we win in the end for eternity.
(29:19):
That's our hope, praise God. And so and we, we want to give
right answers and people see people agree with them because
it's good for them and it bringsglory to God.
But our ultimate hope is not about vindicating myself.
That's right. My hope, it's about honoring God
and seeing you being blessed by obeying God or repenting every
sin. Put your faith in Him.
And if I can bring this back allfull circle back to CRT and so
(29:39):
forth, this is one of the reasons I so much detest
critical race theory because notonly does critical race theory
undermine the authority of Scripture, understanding of
justice, understanding what is right and wrong and so forth, it
undermines the gospel of Jesus Christ because it gets
everything wrong. It gets our identity wrong.
It says you're either an oppressor or the oppressed based
on skin shade. It says it gets our problem
(30:02):
wrong. CRT says our problem is
oppression and only some are guilty.
The oppressors, not the oppressed, and therefore the
oppressed are not guilty at all.And CRT, the oppressed have no
need to repent and all. By the way, if you apply
critical race theory in our cultural context, critical race
theory says that Christianity ispart of the oppression in our
culture. Therefore, if you tell someone
to repent of their sin, if you tell an oppressed person to
(30:24):
repent of their sin, well, that's just you oppressing them
with an oppressive narrative from our oppressive background.
And so even the basic narrative of scripture is not enough.
And then also by the way, in CRTit says if you're white, then
repentance is not enough. If you want to be truly saved
and sanctified within Christianity, you must be doing
the active work of anti racism. That's a big part of what you
are doing. If you're not working to
(30:46):
obliterate systemically oppressive structures in our
society, you are still part of the problem.
As Tim Keller said and differentquote in my book, you find that
and then you are you still have work to be done.
And maybe someone say you're noteven saved.
So it says Christ blood on the cross wasn't enough to save
white people. It obliterates all foundation
for the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is our hope.
(31:08):
And so This is why we would vehemently say CRT is not a
helpful analytical tool. It's anti Christian, anti
biblical authority, anti gospel and we should reject everything
in US and then proclaim that true gospel rooted in God's
word. Amen.
Oh my goodness, Brian. So well said.
So well said. Amen.
Amen. Like I, I think this is this is
where we've kind of come that we've just got to tell the truth
(31:31):
and we've got to trust God. We've got to trust his word as
we tell the truth. I love what you said about
engaging culturally and, you know, not just seeking to
obliterate your opponent, but really desiring that this
person's soul would be saved. I think in some ways what we see
happening on social media, theseclips and these reels, it's sort
of our modern version of like the gladiator games, right?
(31:53):
Like we show up, we want them inthe arena and we want them to
fight until the death and are. You not entertained with my
tweet, my tweets or not tweet anymore?
Whatever it is, no. You're right, you're exactly
right. Like did did this not, you know,
make your day? And I think there's something
and this is a different podcast,but there's something that we
need to examine when that is entertainment for us, right?
(32:16):
That if we're not grieved that aperson walks away and is no
better eternally because of thatinteraction.
So anyway, Brian, thank you so much.
It's again, I, I enjoy talking with you.
It it, you know, it provokes me in a in a really good way.
I'm so glad that you wrote this book.
Of course, I have way more questions.
I want to know what your execution of some of the
(32:37):
principles in the book look likein your home.
But we don't have time for that.OK.
So we're just going to have to plan it for like a Part 7.
We can do it. I'm all.
I love it. It's always a blast talking with
you. It truly is, and getting the
message out about God's truths and His Word and encouraging
clipping Christians, That's whatI'd love to do.
And if I can do it in just a funformat like this, man, it's such
a blessing. So anytime, anytime.
(32:57):
Thank you, Brian, thank you so much.
The book is Woken Justice, a biblical response to critical
Race theory, by our guest on theSchoolhouse Rock podcast, Ryan
Osborne. You can get a copy of this book
by going to the Answers in Genesis website.
You probably have it on one of your saved tabs, I know you do.
So just click on that tab and goand get your copy.
You're going to be blessed by itand your family is going to be
(33:18):
equipped. Thanks so much for joining me
this week on the Schoolhouse Rock Podcast.
If you would like to check out my own podcast, which is the
Culture Proof podcast, then you can find it wherever you get
your podcast, maybe over on YouTube or Spotify.
You can check us out there wherewe deal with cultural issues
through an unapologetically biblical lens.
Next week you're going to have another great episode of the
(33:40):
Schoolhouse Rock podcast. So make sure you come back for
that. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
(34:02):
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially when we see what's happening in our culture today,
but the answers are found withinthe Word of God, so that's where
we want to look. Amen.
When we resist those cultural friends that rival the truth.
We remain culture proof. This is our much anticipated
annual curriculum picks episode that Abby and I have done the
(34:26):
last few years and these are always so fun.
You and I get asked constantly what we use for our kids for
curriculum. It's preparing your kid for the
real world, which is our ultimate goal, right?
Our ultimate goal is not to prepare our kids for a socialist
university. It is to prepare our kids for
the real world and what God calls them to do.
So I'm super excited now that we're into this journey, I
(34:47):
realize it works. It works well.
And so we can loosen up a littleand just be excited to learn and
light the fire rather than fill the bucket.
So that's what I'm really excited about this year.
I. Love it.
What's really driving what's happening in our culture is a
rebellion against God's word rooted in sin, which goes back
to the fall of man back in Genesis chapter 3.
We understand the solution is the good news of the gospel of
Jesus Christ. The power is not in the answer
itself. The power is not in my ability
to communicate it. The power is in the Word of God.
The power is in God and His Spirit.
(00:20):
Everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
I'm Miki, and our guest this week is Brian Osborne, and this
is Part 2 of our conversation about critical race theory and
his book Woke Injustice, a Biblical response to Critical
race theory. Before we finished the last
podcast, we were solving the world's problems.
And so of course, we ran out of time because there are lots of
(00:43):
problems. There are.
Lots of problems, that's true. We're going to pick up with that
this week, but before we do, I do want to say a huge thank you
to one of our sponsors, and thatis BJU Press Homeschool.
Thank you so much for sponsoringthe Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
Their materials won't just equipyou for a successful homeschool
journey. They'll prepare your child for a
future full of possibilities so that your child can confidently
(01:06):
move from homeschool ready for the world and whatever it is
that God has for them next. They've crafted their curriculum
to give you the tools you need that are rooted a solid biblical
foundation. Bjupress Homeschool offers
lessons that encourage critical thinking skills as well as
activities and lessons that support multi sensory learning
(01:26):
and the unique learning styles of your children.
And they have both online and parent LED formats to fit your
lifestyle. Bjupress Homeschool will
encourage a love of learning in your child and they'll be with
you every step of the way. Visit them at
bjupresshomeschool.com. That's Bjupress Homeschool dot
com and if I could just say thatis the curriculum that we trust
(01:50):
with all six of our children. They each have a different way
that they learn and BJU Press homeschool has been phenomenal
and responding to their needs. So check them out at
bjupresshomeschool.com. OK Brian, it is always such a
joy to talk with you. Like I just it.
It feels like the kinds of conversations Christians ought
(02:11):
to be having, right? That there are real issues in
the world and the Bible is a real response.
Amen. Yeah.
Well, it's always a privilege tochat with you.
Truly. Is that fun doing so?
I think we laugh quite a bit, which is great.
Well, you can laugh in light of CRT, that's saying something.
That's that's. Right, it's.
So true. If you don't laugh, you cry.
Maybe, but. And and maybe you do both
(02:32):
because maybe you're so maybe you're so grieved.
You know, I told my husband at the height like the rise of
critical race theory. I said, you know, listen, you
know, there, if you want some fast cash, all we've got to do
is make a quick jog. We could go into DEI like
oversight, like we could get a six figure jokingly daily
(02:55):
income, just telling people how horrible they are and then
promoting this to kids. Like, Can you imagine what we
could do? And you know, the running joke
is yes, but but at the cost of your soul.
That's right, right. My point is this, everywhere you
look, there were people cashing in on this, as you described in
Allie Beth Stuckey's book, whichI need to check out.
(03:16):
Toxic empathy, right? The people are being led by
their emotions rather than led by the Spirit of God and led by
the oversight of God's Word. Talk a little bit about defining
terms, like we talk about diversity, equity, and
inclusion. We talk about justice.
How is it that the world uses those terms and we find
(03:38):
ourselves using the terms, but we think they mean something
different? Yeah, well, what I've found in
the last probably 15 years of talking about origins and
talking about evolution, age of the earth, and now connected to
social issues like gender, sexuality and also CRT, is that
defining deterrence is of the utmost importance.
It really is, you know, and I'veactually come up with three
(03:58):
questions I think every Christian should have in their
holster ready to engage people with.
And they're really simple. First one is what do you mean by
that? As you're engaging someone on a
topic, If you're talking about justice, critical race theory,
you're talking about evolution, whatever.
What do you mean by that word? You know, for like evolution,
for example, when someone says evolution, well, do you mean by
evolution, natural selection, adaptation, speciation, dogs,
(04:20):
mcdogs, cats, cats? We agree with that.
That's what the Bible teaches. That's what science confirms.
No problem. But do you mean everything from
nothing and life from non life and information from non
thinking matter? No, we don't agree with that.
Science rebuts that and God's word doesn't teach that.
But what do you mean when we talk about justice?
What do you mean by justice? Do you mean the right attitudes
and words and responses towards people and lie with God's word
and his nature? OK.
(04:42):
Or do you mean like the neo Marxist critical race theory
definition which is redistributing wealth and
societal power from the oppressors to the oppressed
based on superficial characteristics like skin shade
which is what CRT is. It's not only racist.
But what do you mean by justice?Define your terms or diversity,
equity and inclusion? What do you mean by those words?
(05:02):
And if you will simply define onyour terms with people you're
engaging, you can come to see fairly quickly that you can find
out you're not on the same page,right?
That the words may sound familiar, but they don't mean
the same thing. And I remember the the famous
philosopher from The Princess Bride.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you
think it means. That's right.
That's. Right, that's what we see all
(05:23):
the time with all these sorts ofthings.
And so #1 define your terms. Great question.
How do you know? Second question is, or what do
you mean? The same question is how do you
know? In other words, what is your
authority? How do you know that to be true?
How do you reach that conclusion?
But what is your foundational source?
What is your authoritative source to reach that conclusion?
And when you ask that question, what you're forcing someone to
(05:43):
do is to actually understand they have an authority they're
appealing to, and they have two options on that authority.
Either it's God's word or it's man's.
If they're appealing to man's word, it's utterly arbitrary
because why trust one man over another?
They're just, it's an equal playing field with no absolute
truth. Ultimate authority is set apart.
So we're showing them you've gotan authority.
And if it's not man's word, if it's not God's word, it's man's
(06:04):
word, which is arbitrary. So how do you know?
And last one is why do you care?So to the non believer, why do
you care about justice? Why do you care about the plight
of this planet? Why do you care about the rights
of women and so forth? Now as a Christian, I've got
good reason to care about all those things rooted in God's
word and rightly understood. But why do you care?
Because if there is no God, if evolution is true, we'll just
(06:26):
rearrange pond scum. Why you care about justice?
One day we'll be extinct from the memory preserved.
Why care about any of this? But they care because they're
made in God's image, and they'restealing from the biblical
worldview and trying to use biblical arguments to argue
against the Bible. The fact they can argue at all
shows that they're wrong. But anyway, but three questions.
So what do you mean by that? How do you know and why do you
(06:47):
care? And that's good for any issue,
but especially engaging on issues of justice to define your
terms and to get on the same plane for the really to show
them, OK, this is what you actually think built on man's
word. This is what God's Word actually
says, built on that foundation to show there's a real
difference and that we're fighting really from a
foundational fight of authority,and we're trusting that they're
trusting man's word. Yeah, You know, it's so
(07:08):
interesting. I, I remember several years ago
when I was told that I was oppressed and I didn't know it,
that I, that I was, that I was avictim of white hegemony and
that I didn't know it. And what was interesting was
that I was actually, and this, this is important for the sake
of the conversation, but I was being told this by a white woman
who said that I didn't know thatI was oppressed, right?
(07:31):
That I was oppressed by the man.And of course, I had never met
her before in my life. She was commenting on a post
that I made that was challengingcritical race theory and
operating in a public capacity. I always feel like I've made a
public statement. I am not going to take it
personally. If you publicly comment on that
statement, that's fine, right? But she started kind of getting
(07:52):
really personal. And one of the things that I
did, and this is to your three questions, is question #2 one of
the things that I did was I said, are you a Christian?
And she said, yes. And I said, then make a case for
me, your position. Make your case from God's Word.
Well, she came back with all of these links to the experts that
I needed to read all of the critical race theory, the Robin
(08:15):
D Angelo's and the, you know, Ibrahim X Kindy and all of these
people. And I just said, I just said,
let's say that I don't read yourbooks.
Make your case from God's word. And can I just tell you, Brian,
the conversation was over. Like when you challenge them, if
people invite you to play ball right, like you say, OK, yeah,
(08:35):
but let's use my ball, right? Like if you, if you we're going
to use my ball. And Megan, I don't trust your
ball and your ball is not reliable.
So we're we're let's play ball, but let's use my ball.
I think when Christians start doing that, it shows I trust
God's word. Like we, we can rely on his
word. He's not going to let us down.
We're not going to get out in the public square and be shamed.
But I do think that Christians kind of expect to be embarrassed
(08:57):
when they're having these conversations.
Oh, and to your point, talk about often here at the ministry
is that no matter what the issueis, there is no neutrality.
That's right, that doesn't exist.
Either you're with Christ or against either you walk in light
or you walk in darkness. Christ said either you gather
with me or you scatter. The mindset on the flesh is not
neutral towards God. It is hostile towards God.
(09:20):
There is no such thing as neutrality.
Make you to your point when our culture today says, hey, let's
meet over here, let's talk aboutsexuality or abortion or gender,
whatever, let's talk about that.So let's meet on neutral ground.
And they'll continue to say, andof course we don't believe the
Bible, so just leave the Bible out of the discussion.
Let's talk about this issue on neutral ground.
Well, if you agree to do that, they've just won right before
(09:44):
you even started the debate. Why?
Because you agree with their foundational premise that you
don't need the Bible for truth. You've agreed with them that
man's word is the ultimate authority.
Now we're just arguing over which man, me or you, which
person, me or you, but we still agree with their foundational
premise. And so if you give up biblical
authority, you've lost before you even started.
That's a terrible way to start adebate.
(10:05):
That's right, that we stand on God's Word.
It is our sword, it is our rock.We take every thought captive,
make it obedient to Christ. And Miki, what makes me ever
even more sad on this is that Christians, I think, give up
that authority, thinking they'redoing a right thing to reach out
to people. And actually it's the absolute
wrong thing. And they're given the foundation
that gives them a worldview, that gives them answers, that
(10:26):
gives them right understanding for empathy and compassion and
for love and for justice. Given up.
They've given up the house. They're getting biblical
authority when they've already got it all.
You've got it. Just stand, proclaim and defend.
And oh, don't forget, as you allknow, Mickey, it's not my words.
I have power. I can be very emotional.
I can get excited about it. I can say with sometimes
clarity, sometimes not. But sometimes it comes out good.
(10:47):
But no matter how good or bad mywords are, they have no power.
God's word has the power. God's Spirit is the power.
So I don't depend on myself, I depend on God's word.
What does He say? What are His precepts?
What is His good news found in His Word?
I share that truth in his word that changes heart, that changes
(11:08):
lives. Not belief, but God's Word.
If you give up God's word, you give up the power to do anything
that's right. And on that foundation?
That's amazing. And then and you've also said
you've also said that it's negotiable like that.
OK, Well, yeah, I can debate these issues.
That's one of the problems I had.
And maybe you want to speak to this a little bit, Brian, But
one of the problems I had was that as as critical race theory
(11:30):
started to really sort of fill our country, right?
Like, it it it sort of had this groundswell where, you know,
people were not familiar with these terms.
They were hearing them kind of here and there.
And then by the time it got to the point where people were
talking about it as they're picking their bananas at
Walmart, it's like, whoa, what is going every it's everywhere.
But at the same time, you had people arise to talk about these
(11:52):
things apart from the convictionthat the word of God is true.
And some of these people are very prominent in culture.
They have huge platforms, but they want to address these
issues void of God's Word. So they would talk about why
it's bad for the country. OK, yes, it is bad for the
country and it is tearing down the nation.
But there was a deeper spiritualissue that we've got to address
(12:15):
that a conservative talking headdoes not have the power to
address because that person is not relying on God's Word.
Talk about how Christians have aunique position when dealing
with these issues, even when ourcommentary overlaps with those
who would call themselves conservative.
Oh, it's so good. And I think it's so well said
(12:36):
and such a great setup because, you know, we can appreciate the
work of strong conservative voices in our culture.
I can appreciate the Charlie Kirk's of the world and those
who are giving a voice and giving good answers.
And we're budding really bad ideas in a very public way and
powerful. I can appreciate that for what
it is, but it doesn't get to theheart of the matter, which is
the issue of the heart. What's really driving what's
(12:58):
happening in our culture is a rebellion against God's word
rooted in sin, which goes back to the fall of man back in
Genesis chapter 3. And that if we understand that
the actual issue is sin at the heart, we understand the
solution is the good news of thegospel of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't mean we don't give answers, absolutely we do.
But two things. Number one, our answers have a
root and an absolute ultimate authority.
(13:20):
When a conservative who's not rooted in God's word gives a
good rebuttal to CRT or to whatever bad social issue, and
they're doing it based on just quick wit and common sense, they
would say that OK, but if it's not rooted in God's Word, it's
still just man's opinion. Yes.
So, you know, even if you're BenShapiro and you talk really fast
and you're really smart, OK, Butso just a person arguing with
(13:44):
another person, that's all it is.
Whereas if we say no, it's God'sword, that's the authority, then
we're saying no, you're arguing against God.
And by the way, Miki, that is sorefreshing for a Christian
because for most of us, we don'thave that Ben Shapiro quick wit.
We don't have the ability to think that fast or talk that
fast or have all these things atthe top of our mind to do all
(14:07):
that. But we don't have to.
Now, we need to be ready to giveanswers, yes, but those answers
are rooted in God's Word. And it's God's Word that carries
the weight to do the work in theperson's life.
And so that's a comfort to us, but also it's a real power
because we understand that the real issue is the issue of the
heart. Therefore, it must be God's
Word, God's gospel, and God's Spirit that does the work.
How do you have those things employed?
(14:28):
Through the proclamation of His Word, His truth and his God
possible and so we proclaim thistruth and that does the work.
And so if you want to see a realchange, real things happening in
the culture, yes, engage, pleaseengage.
Please give a biblical perspective on issues.
Please engage in the culture. Please vote rightly within
within the biblical worldview. Please yes, for love all do it,
(14:48):
but understand that as you engage in politics and as you
vote and as you engage people, that's not the answer.
The answer is the good news of Jesus Christ.
They'll change their heart that lead to long term multi
generational effects if God chooses to do so.
So that is our ultimate hope, not not crisis conservatives who
are doing some good. I'm not I'm not sad about it.
Please go out there. But but yeah, it's not that's
(15:12):
not our hope. And also, let me just say this.
I I do appreciate them and what they're doing.
But Miki, as Christians, we're called to do God's will, God's
way. We're not called to be snappy
cultural commentators. Come on.
Or not. And I mean, there's a place for
righteous anger. Don't misunderstand, But we're
called to love people. We are called to see people
(15:32):
repent. We want to see them turn to
Christ. And so we want to give the truth
in a loving way. So we give the truth in love.
And God cares about what we say,how we say it, and why we say
it, cares about all of that. And so we give truth in a loving
way to honor him. And through that God works.
And so although we can enjoy theanswers, must be sure we're not
(15:53):
acting like they are in the two places where it's just
sarcastic. No, we give truth in love
because we care about the personwe were, but really bad ideas
because the ideas come from the enemy.
And we care about the lost soul and proclaim truth, repent for
their faith in Christ. Amen.
I, I tell my, my oldest son, he's 15 and he's a, he's a
natural debater. He loves apologetics, but I tell
(16:14):
him all the time, but you're nottrying to win arguments.
You want to win souls And, and you need wisdom for that.
You need God's wisdom. I mean, you look at the people
that you mentioned, even just Charlie Kirk and, and Ben
Shapiro. So you look at them operating
with a lot, a tremendous amount of natural ability.
And I say to him, because he watches their videos, he watches
them, you know, on campus and all of this and, and he's
(16:34):
fascinated by it, you know, and I go look, they say what they're
doing. And that's that's, that's
fantastic, right? But imagine what the Lord wants
to do through you by the power of his spirit, where now you're
not just winning an argument, but maybe God gives you some
insight, you know, into the lifeof the person that you're
debating where you're going to. You didn't think about it ahead
of time, but the Holy Spirit's going to lead you in a direction
(16:56):
that maybe is going to cut to the quick of the issue that the
person is actually dealing with.Because sometimes the debate
topic is not the root issue in that person's heart.
Maybe the Holy Spirit wants to use you, wants to give you
insight that is not given to a person who has said to God, I
don't need you, right? Like, I mean, if you, you know,
and, and those things are great,but imagine what it would look
(17:16):
like to be like the disciples, right?
For people to be like, OK, you, you don't have all of that type
of education behind you. You don't have those world
travels behind you, but they would take note that you've been
with Jesus. There's there's something that
you shouldn't be able to do thatyou're doing, you know, we got
to take a break. But on the other side of this
break, I kind of want to stay inthis vein of talking about
(17:39):
equipping our kids. Because when we have this
conversation, there is a practical work for us to do that
we equip our kids with a response and with the
apologetics. But at the same time, we want
them to rely on the power of God's Word and the power of the
Holy Spirit to help them utilizewhat we've equipped them with in
(18:00):
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Boot camp. OK, Brian, let's just kind of
continue down this road that we're traveling.
We're talking about your book Woke and Justice and really I
all of the things right. We're we're talking about how we
(19:22):
engage for the glory of God in our culture and we just kind of
naturally started talking about kids.
Maybe I brought my son in and I'm curious to know how you
would equip parents to engage inthese kind of conversations with
their children. We possess knowledge.
We can see what's happening in the culture, but we don't want
(19:45):
to just give our kids a bunch ofinformation.
We want to connect their heart with the right conviction as
they utilize that information. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I so many great things said there and a great setup.
I would say a couple of things. Number one, we cannot pass on
what we don't possess. I think I spelled that from
Heidi Saint John, but I mean, you know, it's so true.
(20:06):
We can't. We got to be equipped ourselves.
We got to be equipped with answers for ourselves and we got
to be equipped with the right understanding of how to use
those answers, how to employ them in the right spirit in
submission to God's Word and hispower.
And so first. Maybe we want to practice what
we preach right before we even preach it.
And so we got to understand thatourselves.
And then as we engage our kids, we want to, yes, give them the
answers, But I think as we give them the answers, give them a
(20:28):
biblical worldview, teach them how to think biblically.
Something we talked about often here at the Ministry is to teach
Christians how to think from a biblical foundation, from a
biblical framework that it's really ultimately every issue is
about either God's word is your authority or man's word is
you're putting your faith in oneof the other.
So you put your faith in one foundational authority.
(20:48):
And so we want to teach them youstart with God's Word and then
you build your thinking from them.
As you are looking at cultural issues, you look at God's words.
You said earlier when you're talking to your kids, when they
ask you, what's mom, what do youthink about this?
Well, what does the Bible say about this?
Right? I want to line up with that.
And so we want to go to God's Word, teach them things
biblically. And yes, we want to give them
answers from God's Word, but also teach them how to go to it,
(21:11):
how to study it, how to find good resources and good other
ministries like Answers in Genesis to find detailed answers
that are rooted in God's Word. Help them to think biblically
and critically because inevitably as they get older,
they'll engage some new issue that's not been brought up
before that we've never really tackled before.
So if we taught them the thing from a biblical, authoritative
(21:31):
standpoint, then hopefully they will go and follow that format.
OK, Mom never addressed artificial intelligence.
It wasn't on the radar at the time we were in the house, but
here it is now. So if I as I engage this issue,
how do I think about this? Let me go to God's Word and
think about precepts that I can use to understand this right and
biblically work through this or whatever the new social issue,
(21:51):
moral issue may be in our culture later on down the road.
If you look at things like pedophilia has been doing
culture history. Why not?
Why not happen here in America now as we see a divergent away
from biblical authority. So many issues, and so as they
engage new issues, teach them how to go to God's Word.
And then also, as you already said earlier, kind of setting
up. We've got to teach them that the
power is not in the answer itself.
(22:13):
The power is not in my ability to communicate it.
The power is in the Word of God.The power is in God and His
Spirit and that we need to be prepared.
God has commanded us for all Christians to give an answer for
our faith, to constrain earnestly for the faith we are
to know God's Word, meditate on God's Word day and night, to
know it, to love it, to enjoy it, to share it, to teach it, to
(22:34):
teach our kids as they sit up, as they lay down, as you walk
along the way. Yes, we teach God's Word, but as
we are sharing it, we understandthat we're prepared.
We give it, but it's God's Word and His Spirit that does the
work. Amen.
And as you mentioned earlier, aswe're talking with someone that
may go down different paths, because really ultimately, no
rejection of God's Word is usually ultimately intellectual.
(22:58):
Only rarely does someone have just a purely intellectual
rejection of God's Word. You still have an intellectual
rejection of something. They'll disagree with something
some point, but there's typically some emotional, some
experiential, some psychologicalbaggage along with that that
comes along as part of that. Some experience something bad,
some bad things, some whatever. And so there's usually something
(23:19):
connected to that. And so as we're open to God's
Word and Spirit moving through us as we're engaging someone, we
give answers but also understandit's God's Word and we make it
on different paths as we engage people.
But we know that the power is not in US.
And we got to teach them that. And that goes directly against
our inclination, even as believers.
I mean, and I have to deal with this all the time because my
(23:40):
whole job is giving answers, right?
That's why I'm paid to do that. I'm paid to train people to do
that. And that's my inclination.
Like I like thinking that way. So I love what I do.
I would do this for free. Don't tell my boss, but I love
it. But you know, I've got to
realize, and God's taught me over the years that it's not
Bryan Osborne that changes anyone.
(24:01):
It's God. It's God, It's his Word, our
Savior, our Lord, our King, Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit,
God the Father. When they work in somebody's
life, that's when the lights come on.
That's when lives are changed. Now we can be a vehicle and a
medium through which God works as we obey him.
And that's the privilege we haveif we obey Him and are ready and
(24:21):
give an answer to defend the faith.
But it's God who does the work, which again takes away all.
It takes it off of us as a word right belongs, which is on God.
But also we have the accountability that we are to be
ready to give an answer and alsoto share in a way that's loving
to God. Not argumentative, but in truth,
boldly, uncompromisingly, but lovingly, with true empathy
(24:41):
towards those who need the truth.
We say it in God's Word and his love, and we see what God does.
And there's a great rest of that.
You know, it's, it's interestingyou just alluded to what is
probably like our our most we, this is our apologetics verse,
right? That we are ready to give a
reason for the hope that lies within us.
Like this is we're like I'm I'm get get me ready, get me ready.
(25:03):
But I want to have you unpack this a little bit because I've
made some observations as you read through first Peter and and
I want to get you to speak to this.
I believe that the readiness to have a response requires
countercultural living. Like when I read first Peter
before I get to 1st Peter 3:15, I've read first Peter chapter
(25:24):
one, first Peter chapter 2, and first Peter chapter 3.
One through 14, hopefully. Right?
That's exactly right because it's said in the context.
Well, that's a great point. But when I do read that, and I
read it in context, I am slappedin the face by the
countercultural living. I'm slapped in the face by the
submission to authority. I'm slapped in the face by the
submission to my husband, by howI engage my employer.
(25:47):
I'm slapped in the face by all of that.
That tells me the way you naturally want to live.
Don't live that way. Live in a different way.
And it tells me that there was going to be a question provoked,
like, why? Why are you not doing the thing
that everybody else is doing? You're doing something
differently. And I want to understand why
(26:08):
you're doing it. Well, then that is sort of the
platter for the gospel, right? I feel like we're not getting
there because we're living like everybody else.
Brian, what are your thoughts onthat?
Yeah, no, I think it's a great point and I think you're
absolutely right. It's all connected together.
It is all about how we are to live kind of culturally, even if
it even if it means we are persecuted.
(26:29):
And that's the context of first Peter.
It's persecution. Church is being persecuted.
And so they're called to still live in a way that is loving
towards others, that is submissive in line with God's
word, never, never contrary to God's word, but where you can be
where you're loving people rightly submitting and then
still living in a way that honors people even though they
may be persecuting you. And so how can you still, how
(26:49):
can you live that way? How can you love someone who's
actually actively hurting you? How can you and then it goes
intellectual issues, yes, how Can you believe the Bible with
evolution? How Can you believe the Bible
when we know the sexuality community you want it to be?
Yes, there are intellectuals issues issues in that, but it's
not just that it's the way you live.
It's the countercultural nature of all those things and the way
you still love people even though they're being very much
(27:11):
unloving towards you and all that Sis a stage for giving an
answer for our faith. And also note first Peter 315
says give an answer in meekness and in fear.
Amen. And so meekness is not being
unpowered, powerful, it's just power under control.
It is doing it. I'm going to share this truth
lovingly, controllingly in the fear of God, hoping that you
repent and put your faith in Christ.
(27:33):
That is what our goal. That is our hope.
And that's the entire context ofhow we should be living and
giving answers for our faith. And for so many people today,
It's so easy to get caught up inthe hostile nature of our
culture where it's all about snappy answers.
It's all about, you know, this person, you know, YouTube, you
see those little clips, you know, this person gets crushed
(27:55):
by this from this person or they're obliterated by this
response from this person. It's all about, you know,
demolishing and destroying your opponent.
And it's all about and we get caught up in that and make you
honestly, most of the time in ina Christian setting, if we're
doing that, that's rooted in pride.
That's right. And about let me, let me just
say something really quick too before I forget.
I've watched some Charlie Kirk videos and I will say this about
(28:16):
Charlie Kirk. I think he's professing
believer. I don't know his heart.
I'm not watched a whole lot, butI think he is Protestant, I
believe. But I will say this, typically
his interactions with college students, he's very respectful.
Now sometimes he does get he gets a hostile sometimes, but
overall, and it's a hostile environment.
Be fair to him. But over I've watched him many
times. I thought man, he actually
(28:37):
Christians could learn some stuff from watching him the way
he engages people to respect people he disagrees with via but
he still honors them as a human being made in God's image.
That's right. And we're going to treat people
at least that good, if not better to where we understand
they're made in God's image. We love them, honor them.
We're not called to obliterate them with a social media post
that's so good, the proclaimed truth.
(28:58):
And that's hard because in our pride, we want to win.
That's right. I was an athlete, not anymore.
I was way back in the day. But you know, and when you play,
you want to win and for debating, for engaging on
issues, that's how we tend to be.
We want to win and, and yes, I mean, we have the right answers
and by the way, we win in the end for eternity.
(29:19):
That's our hope, praise God. And so and we, we want to give
right answers and people see people agree with them because
it's good for them and it bringsglory to God.
But our ultimate hope is not about vindicating myself.
That's right. My hope, it's about honoring God
and seeing you being blessed by obeying God or repenting every
sin. Put your faith in Him.
And if I can bring this back allfull circle back to CRT and so
(29:39):
forth, this is one of the reasons I so much detest
critical race theory because notonly does critical race theory
undermine the authority of Scripture, understanding of
justice, understanding what is right and wrong and so forth, it
undermines the gospel of Jesus Christ because it gets
everything wrong. It gets our identity wrong.
It says you're either an oppressor or the oppressed based
on skin shade. It says it gets our problem
(30:02):
wrong. CRT says our problem is
oppression and only some are guilty.
The oppressors, not the oppressed, and therefore the
oppressed are not guilty at all.And CRT, the oppressed have no
need to repent and all. By the way, if you apply
critical race theory in our cultural context, critical race
theory says that Christianity ispart of the oppression in our
culture. Therefore, if you tell someone
to repent of their sin, if you tell an oppressed person to
(30:24):
repent of their sin, well, that's just you oppressing them
with an oppressive narrative from our oppressive background.
And so even the basic narrative of scripture is not enough.
And then also by the way, in CRTit says if you're white, then
repentance is not enough. If you want to be truly saved
and sanctified within Christianity, you must be doing
the active work of anti racism. That's a big part of what you
are doing. If you're not working to
(30:46):
obliterate systemically oppressive structures in our
society, you are still part of the problem.
As Tim Keller said and differentquote in my book, you find that
and then you are you still have work to be done.
And maybe someone say you're noteven saved.
So it says Christ blood on the cross wasn't enough to save
white people. It obliterates all foundation
for the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is our hope.
(31:08):
And so This is why we would vehemently say CRT is not a
helpful analytical tool. It's anti Christian, anti
biblical authority, anti gospel and we should reject everything
in US and then proclaim that true gospel rooted in God's
word. Amen.
Oh my goodness, Brian. So well said.
So well said. Amen.
Amen. Like I, I think this is this is
where we've kind of come that we've just got to tell the truth
(31:31):
and we've got to trust God. We've got to trust his word as
we tell the truth. I love what you said about
engaging culturally and, you know, not just seeking to
obliterate your opponent, but really desiring that this
person's soul would be saved. I think in some ways what we see
happening on social media, theseclips and these reels, it's sort
of our modern version of like the gladiator games, right?
(31:53):
Like we show up, we want them inthe arena and we want them to
fight until the death and are. You not entertained with my
tweet, my tweets or not tweet anymore?
Whatever it is, no. You're right, you're exactly
right. Like did did this not, you know,
make your day? And I think there's something
and this is a different podcast,but there's something that we
need to examine when that is entertainment for us, right?
(32:16):
That if we're not grieved that aperson walks away and is no
better eternally because of thatinteraction.
So anyway, Brian, thank you so much.
It's again, I, I enjoy talking with you.
It it, you know, it provokes me in a in a really good way.
I'm so glad that you wrote this book.
Of course, I have way more questions.
I want to know what your execution of some of the
(32:37):
principles in the book look likein your home.
But we don't have time for that.OK.
So we're just going to have to plan it for like a Part 7.
We can do it. I'm all.
I love it. It's always a blast talking with
you. It truly is, and getting the
message out about God's truths and His Word and encouraging
clipping Christians, That's whatI'd love to do.
And if I can do it in just a funformat like this, man, it's such
a blessing. So anytime, anytime.
(32:57):
Thank you, Brian, thank you so much.
The book is Woken Justice, a biblical response to critical
Race theory, by our guest on theSchoolhouse Rock podcast, Ryan
Osborne. You can get a copy of this book
by going to the Answers in Genesis website.
You probably have it on one of your saved tabs, I know you do.
So just click on that tab and goand get your copy.
You're going to be blessed by itand your family is going to be
(33:18):
equipped. Thanks so much for joining me
this week on the Schoolhouse Rock Podcast.
If you would like to check out my own podcast, which is the
Culture Proof podcast, then you can find it wherever you get
your podcast, maybe over on YouTube or Spotify.
You can check us out there wherewe deal with cultural issues
through an unapologetically biblical lens.
Next week you're going to have another great episode of the
(33:40):
Schoolhouse Rock podcast. So make sure you come back for
that. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
(34:02):
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially when we see what's happening in our culture today,
but the answers are found withinthe Word of God, so that's where
we want to look. Amen.
When we resist those cultural friends that rival the truth.
We remain culture proof. This is our much anticipated
annual curriculum picks episode that Abby and I have done the
(34:26):
last few years and these are always so fun.
You and I get asked constantly what we use for our kids for
curriculum. It's preparing your kid for the
real world, which is our ultimate goal, right?
Our ultimate goal is not to prepare our kids for a socialist
university. It is to prepare our kids for
the real world and what God calls them to do.
So I'm super excited now that we're into this journey, I
(34:47):
realize it works. It works well.
And so we can loosen up a littleand just be excited to learn and
light the fire rather than fill the bucket.
So that's what I'm really excited about this year.
I. Love it.
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