October 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Is your marriage feeling less than “Pinterest-perfect”? You’re not alone!
Join Aby Rinella and guest Kathy Roberts for an honest conversation about the power of a praying wife. Kathy shares her incredible testimony—from the heartbreak of betrayal and HIV, to God’s miraculous redemption in her marriage of 39 years. Discover practical tips for cultivating a prayerful life, find hope in forgiveness, and be inspired by stories of God’s faithfulness in the darkest moments. This episode is a must-listen for any wife longing for restoration and encouragement.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I pressed into God like never before in my life, and what I
would say happened in that transferring time in my life was
that Jesus wasn't just my Savioranymore.
He became my Lord. He was my everything.
And I just said, Lord, do whatever it takes.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
I'm Abby Rinella and I'm excitedto be back with you this week
(00:21):
with my friend Kathy where we are talking about the power of a
praying wife. But first, before we dive back
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(01:05):
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All right, right, we are back and I am so excited to dive
right back into this conversation with Kathy and
we're going to start. So many women reach out to me,
Kathy and they have all of thesemarriage problems and they say,
(01:25):
but you don't know what I'm going through.
And I think that like we talked a little bit about last week, is
sometimes we're so we're so nervous to share the hardships
in our life that we think that everybody has a perfect life.
And so then when something goes wrong in our life, we feel that
there's something wrong with us.But the, the reality is when we
share hardships that we've gone through, what we get to do more
(01:49):
so is we get to share how God redeems all things, how God is
in the really hard things, how he never leaves us, he never
forsakes us, how he's been through it and he loves us
through it. And so why I want you to Share
your story is your story of yourearly marriage is because I know
how many women are listening right now feeling so alone in
(02:10):
hard marriages, feeling so alonewhen things aren't the pretty
Pinterest perfect, you know, home, school, household,
marriage, children and they feelalone.
But I want you. Who is this most incredibly
godly woman who's come out on the other side?
Not to say you still don't walk through hard things, which you
do, but you've seen the hand of God.
(02:33):
And so I really believe that your story, but more
importantly, what God has done through your story and what you
have learned and how you've beenrefined through your story is
going to be such an incredible testimony and encouragement to
our listeners. So will you rewind us back where
we go in 37 years? 39 years, 30.
Nine years we're going. I met Jackie when I was 15, so
(02:56):
I'm 59 next month, so a lot of years ago.
And what I really want to stay say to your listeners is that we
don't realize that God is answering the very prayer that
we prayed. And we're going through maybe
some really hard things and we think what is happening here.
(03:17):
But if we were, if we were to see it from heaven's eyes, maybe
what we would find out is that this was the very prayer that we
prayed long ago. And so when I met my husband, I
prayed. I met him at 15, he was 17.
We dated for a while, broke up, got back together, and then got
married. And I prayed for God to bring me
(03:39):
the man that he had chosen for me, the man of my dreams, my
soul mate. Well, he did, but that didn't
mean it was going to be easy. He was a pastor's son in
rebellion. And I thought he was still the
sweet little pastor's boy who led me to Jesus when I was 15.
But now, Fast forward a few years.
He's 21. He's joined the Marine Corps,
(03:59):
and his father headed up with a indiscretion, I guess you would
call it. He left his mother for his
secretary, and it blew him out of the water and put him in a
sense of rebellion. And this sweet Christian boy was
now drinking and carrying on with women.
And this was before you were married.
(04:20):
Before we were married, I couldn't see it.
I knew he was probably drinking because the Marines kind of
bring that out in people. But I didn't realize that he had
been kind of, you know, dabblingwith women.
And so when we got married, you know, everything was was OK for
a little bit. But he got shipped off to Adak,
(04:42):
Alaska, which was an unaccompanied tour in the
Aleutian chain. And there was no way I could go.
And so he was alone and we were apart for a very, very long
time. And he ended up getting involved
with another woman who then they, he, they've got pregnant.
So she was pregnant. And so he calls me and tells me
(05:06):
I would like a divorce. I'm like, you know what?
We've just been apart a long time.
We can work this out. God's going to get us through
it. And he said, no, you don't
understand. She's pregnant and I need a
divorce. So I'm just wrecked.
I'm completely wrecked. I don't know what to do my But
what happened through that, Abby, is that I pressed into God
like never before in my life. And what I would say happened in
(05:28):
that transforming time in my life was that Jesus wasn't just
my savior anymore. He became my Lord.
I didn't really know fully what I did at 15, but now Jesus was
truly my Lord and my Savior and he was my everything.
And I just said, Lord, do whatever it takes, whatever it
takes. Wait, so let's stop.
(05:48):
The first prayer you prayed whenyou were 15 is give me all these
things and what I heard you. Give me the soulmate, yeah.
Right. And what I just heard you say is
God did in him, right? God gave you what you needed in
Him because your husband wasn't being that at the time.
So. It's such a great point you make
because so many times we put ourhusbands on the throne where God
(06:12):
belongs and we we get that Cinderella story that all I need
is a man who's going to make me happy.
Or even if you're not that kind of lady, we tend to put this
weight on our husbands to be ourAll in all.
And God is infinite mercy. It wrecks us with our walk with
God because it was founded on something that was never meant
to be. But it's a mercy because what
(06:34):
God's doing in the end is he's, he's saying, let me show you
what you really need. So you saw you knew you asked
for this, but what I'm going to do is I'm not going to fulfill
what you asked for. I'm going to give you what you
actually need. And what you need is a husband
who you understand is a fallibleman who can never be your God.
Only I can be your God. But I also am going to show you
(06:57):
my power in how I can transform your life, his life, and do the
impossible. Because I don't know how many of
you women out there believe this, but have said, I know I
did well, I could do a lot of things, but if my husband ever
cheated on me, that's it. I'm done, right?
And I was that girl. And so now I'm in this position
where my husband has unfortunately made the decision
(07:20):
to, you know, pursue the divorce.
But God, this is what God does. He puts him in an explosion and
blows him up. Wait, so he acts?
So you had just prayed God do whatever it takes, right?
This is your prayer, And then what happens?
And then he's about ready to give it, get a divorce, but he
gets in an explosion instead. So he's blowing.
(07:43):
He gets blown up in Adak, Alaska, thrown 30 feet in in the
air and breaks his back and he. But here's the interesting
thing. He has to come off island to get
his surgery. So I am now at a place where I
can go where he is. And the Marine Corps calls me
and says you have to be here. You're next of kin.
And I'm like, but we're getting a divorce.
Doesn't matter. You got to be here just.
(08:05):
But that's a but God moment, right?
But God. So God brings him, I mean brings
me. I have to go where he's at.
And of course, seeing each otheragain wasn't so easy to divorce.
This is the love of my life. I was, I did fall in love with
him at first sight and seeing itface to face wasn't so easy to
say, oh, I don't want to do thisanymore.
(08:26):
So we decide we're going to, we're going to work it out.
Well, God's not finished with him yet because we do work it
out. We do decide to stay together.
We moved to North Carolina to our next duty station, and I am
now pregnant with our first child.
And yet I can still see that he is not broken before the Lord.
He's not forgiven the the rebellion of his own father, and
(08:49):
he's not submitted himself back to God.
He's still mad at God and so I again start praying God do
whatever it takes. And then he comes home one day
and I'm pregnant. Now I'm supposed to, he's going
to go on a float on a submarine and I'm going to have the baby
alone. That's the plan, right?
(09:10):
So he comes home and he says he looks like he's seen a ghost and
he says I go, what's wrong? And he goes, do you want the
good news or the bad news? And I said, well, I want the
good news. And he goes, well, I'm not going
to go on the float. Oh, that's great news.
You're going to be here when thebaby's born.
This is great news. Wait a minute.
He still looks super rocked. So I said, what's the bad news?
(09:33):
And he goes, I'm HIV positive. Oh my goodness.
And at that moment, you know, this is in the 80s when Masters
and Johnson still thought that it could be transmitted through
saliva or mosquitoes. And it was sort of like the
COVID crisis where there was so much unknown and everybody
thought AIDS was a death. Well, AIDS is a death sentence,
but HIV is a death sentence. And it was terrifying.
(09:55):
There was no treatments really going on.
It was a very scary time. So it was like he had told me
basically, we're all going to die.
You are unborn child, everybody.Right.
And let me go back because I would bet a lot of our audience
is probably a lot younger than us.
And so I'm telling you that the gravity of coming home and
saying that to your wife, you aren't just saying I'm HIV
(10:18):
positive. You're essentially saying, like
you said, you're going to die. The baby's going to die.
We're all going to die. And I did this, right?
What you're hearing is I did this to you, right?
So go ahead. And in my mind, of course, I
know that the reason he's HIV positive is because he had been
unfaithful to me, right? But God in His mercy, who?
(10:40):
Because I had been spending timeat his feet, seeking his face
and praying and getting to know him, making him truly my Lord
and Savior through the 1st crisis when this one came along.
I don't, I didn't even know I said these words, but I said, Oh
my God, I don't want my husband to die.
(11:00):
And God used those words of grace to Pierce through the
heart of my husband's heart. And it broke him.
And that's the words that used God used to penetrate through
his hardness and his pain and his bitterness and it just broke
him. And he knew if she because he
knew me, he knew how I should have responded.
(11:21):
I should have said you did this to us.
Get out. I hate you and I will see you
again. But instead God gave me the
grace to give grace. Wow.
And. That grace was.
Used exactly and that grace was used to cause him to repent and
return to God and then after about well we gave birth to JC
(11:45):
our oldest child with a medevac helicopter on standby and
everybody dressed like they weregoing to go into you know hazmat
situation and and we gave birth to this child and we were
immediately awestruck by love asmost of us are when we meet our
first child we're like I thoughtI knew what love was but but
(12:08):
they're so we're holding this baby and and we're just trusting
God for a miracle and God in it is so good because he I would
pray 1st Corinthians 1013 over and over.
No temptation shall overtake youexcept such as is common to man,
but God is faithful and with thetemptation he will make a way
(12:29):
that you would be able to bear it.
And so I was trusting that praying the word, praying the
word girls, pray the word. If you you don't know how to
pray, take a scripture, take outthe pronouns, put yourself in
it, put your situation in it. Pray the word of God, it's power
and it's it's righteous prayer because it's his words.
(12:51):
And so I prayed, prayed, prayed and then we are now about six
months down the road. I'm in love with my baby.
My husband and I are doing great.
The Lord had had told him a story that just broke his heart
even further and caused further repentance.
Will you? Will you share that story with
us? OK, so I did share.
(13:11):
This is the story you remember. Yes, I do remember the story.
We go to church one day and we're in church with our new
baby. And this was like the final, I
think, repentance straw for Jackie, like he was repenting,
but he, this just broke him. And what the pastor had said was
he was preaching out of Hebrew 6.
(13:32):
And he said there was a story ofa man who loved his son so much
that they played ball every day after school.
And so he was, I mean, after work.
So he was coming home from work and his, he could see his boy
down the street was waiting for him with the ball.
And so he's coming down the road.
Well, all of a sudden the ball went in the street.
The boy chased it and was hit byanother car and right in front
(13:54):
of his father's face. And his father is devastated and
he runs out of the car and he scoops up his child off this
blood stained asphalt and takes him to the hospital.
But they arrive too late and theboy dies and the father is
completely and his wife are heartbroken.
And on their way home, they notice that in front of their
house, there's this pool of blood in the asphalt that was
(14:17):
their sons. And they're just completely
devastated. But what they also noticed is
that the cars were driving over top of it just like that.
It was just the stain on the side of the asphalt meant
nothing to them. And this preacher pointed his
finger and he said, some of you have been trampling through the
blood of Jesus Christ like it's nothing.
(14:38):
And when Jackie heard that, he was just weeping, He was broken
and he just confessed all and has never looked back since.
Ever since then, he's been firedup, full on, sold out for Jesus
Christ. That's so incredible.
And let me tell you, when I heard that story initially, I
thought so many women are going to hear this and go, oh, I'm
(14:58):
going to share that story with my husband because then that's
going to change him, right? Like if only I could have the
right story or the right words to tell my husband or the right
thing to say, I'm going to completely turn his life.
Because there's so many women listening right now that feel in
this hopeless place that they just wish their husband would
get it. But what I want to say is it
wasn't your words. There was nothing you could have
(15:20):
said. It was God.
And that's what brought the lasting change to Jackie.
And so rather than run out rightnow and tell your husband that
story thinking it's going to change him, pray God bring the
right person, the right words you speak to my husband in
whatever way you know is going to take.
And moms, we can close our mouths because who do we think?
(15:42):
I mean, do we really think that anything we have to say is
greater than anything God has tosay?
And so that's what really struckme about that story, is it it
didn't come out of your mouth because anything that came out
of your mouth would probably go in one ear out the other.
Probably it was the Lord. And that's what brought the
lasting change. Well, and there's times when
God's going to use you, yeah, and and give you the grace to
(16:05):
give grace like we talked about.And there's times when he's
going to use others. But what we can't do is try to
control it. We started, we talked a little
bit last time about this desire to control, which is really the
curse of Eve. Yeah, totally.
It goes back to the garden, right, that God said you will
desire your husband, right, but he shall rule over you.
(16:26):
And that desire isn't like, oh, I just want to love him.
No, it's I want to control yes, and so that control is is
definitely the thing that I feelas wives we can continually
surrender that because it sneaksup on us.
It just it just it's part of thefall of man and it's just going
(16:47):
to be in our nature. And even if you don't always
recognize how you do it, Maybe you do it through subtleties or
whatever, but I think just keeping a short accounts with
the Lord about showing me Lord, where am I and I constantly do
this in my marriage every day. So back to the.
Actually, before we before we goback, I want to take take a
(17:09):
quick break, but I know that everybody's on the edge of their
seat. I mean, we've kind of come
around and we've seen God do what only God can do.
But we're going to come back in just a minute and finish out
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(18:37):
everybody is on the edge of their seat excited to to hear.
I mean last you said is God got a hold of Jackie and changed his
heart and changed his life and then what?
And it's like you said, the kindof work that only God could do.
Yes, and. So as we're he's, you know,
pressing into God, we're trusting God for a miracle and I
(18:58):
start to get. Scared because at this point you
guys still have HIV, I mean. We still have the diet.
He's yes, he's going to treatments.
OK. They're trying to, they're
trying to, you know, figure out what to do with them in the
Marine Corps. And I go to bed one night.
And this is where I think the enemy likes to get a foothold
with us. You know, I, I have a bad dream
(19:19):
and this there's a terrible dream.
I'm in my dream. I mean, many of you've seen, you
know, like, you know, Sleepy Hollow or Dickens movies, you
know, some really dark, scary cemetery.
And I'm in this dark, scary cemetery and I'm looking at
Jackie's tombstone. Jackie's died in my dream.
And then there's a little headstone next to it, which is
(19:40):
our baby that I'm just madly in love with Jaycee.
And then I'm coughing, sick withAIDS and I wake up and I just
get filled with fear. And fear is a robber.
Fear is a liar. Fear is a foothold every time.
And how do we surrender our fearis is probably one of our great
(20:01):
pursuits because fear sneaks in in the in the back door.
And so I'm riddled with fear andI go to my my kitchen table and
I just cry out to the Lord because that's where we go and
we're afraid, right? Where does my health come from?
When my heart. Is overwhelmed lead me to the
rock who is higher than I I I have no strength so I go to the
(20:22):
Lord and I cry out Lord I'm terrified and actually I'm
feeling a little bitter because if the my baby dies it's because
of him. He is his sin and I'm struggling
and I'm crying and I just finally, you know, get to the
end of that and I wipe my tears and I go, well, I guess I better
go get the mail and girls in themail.
(20:44):
I'll say, I don't know, maybe there's men listening to y'all.
They're in the mail. There was a letter from the
Marine Corps that said we have no explanation for this
whatsoever. But On this date, Jackie Roberts
was HIV positive. And On this date, he has no
traces of HIV in his system whatsoever.
My goodness. And just like that, God said
(21:06):
peace be still. The storm has ceased, but it
wasn't quite over because even though we celebrated the victory
and we looked at our newborn sonand thought, OK, we can start
planning a future together. Then we had about four years of
me trying to reconcile the the adultery and trusting my husband
(21:30):
again. Trusting in God, leaning it on
into my understanding and it wasa process.
It didn't. You know, sometimes when people
hear my testimony, they're like,I just don't have that much
faith. Well, I didn't either, right?
The faith that God gave me was inched along by by crawling many
times on my knees and prayer andalso through a lot of mistakes
(21:52):
and one of the mistakes. The last thing I just want to
share in regards to this testimony because I think this
is the true victory and that is,you know, God.
He worked in me in prayer and giving grace to Jackie.
He worked in me in trusting him with my fears and surrendering
and then bringing a healing. He worked in that.
But where the reverend met the road was forgiveness, real
(22:14):
forgiveness. The forgiveness that doesn't
sneak you up and attack you and throw you down and cause you to
do harmful things to others because you really haven't let
it go. So what happened was I would I,
I would when Jack, you know, would have an argument, I would,
I would throw in his face this, you know, you're just lucky I
stayed with you. And I'm not a proud of that, but
(22:38):
that's what I did. And he, he perceived that I was
scared that he'd leave me again or hurt me again.
So he would just solidify, I will never leave you.
I'm here with you. I'm never going to do that to
you again. Well, I liked that affirmation
more than I liked trusting God with our story.
So I created situations where I could manipulate that out of
(23:01):
him. Well, one day as I go to
manipulate him in this fashion, the Holy Spirit got a hold of my
mind and he showed me, you have two paths, your rights, which is
a wide open path of your right. He hurts you, you're justified
and hurting him back. Or you can do it my way when you
forgive him. And that road was a kind of a
(23:22):
little path I couldn't quite seearound, but the corner that I
could see around was filled withcolor and life and beauty.
When I knew at that moment I never again will say those words
to him. I forgive you once and for all.
I'm never going to bring it up again.
It's over, it's forgiven, it's forgotten as far as the east is
from the West. Just like Jesus forgives us, I
(23:44):
forgive you. And then we truly at that point
started to flourish and grow in freedom and build back a
marriage that you know, just so you know that that I'm so madly
in love with this guy. The minute I hear his motorcycle
turn the corner, I, my heart goes pitter patter.
After 39 years, I can't wait to see him.
I can't wait to be with him. He's my favorite person in the
whole world. God has restored it all in His
(24:06):
mercy. Because that's what he does and
that's only what, that, that's what only he can do.
And then I look at the, the, thevery small amount of time that
I've known you guys, but I've, I've seen not God didn't just
restore your marriage, but then he has used your marriage to
bring so many people to him to, to change the lives of others,
(24:27):
to grow a church that's seeking him.
And, and I listen to each of these steps and I, I look at it
and I go every change, the changes in Jackie, the changes
in you, each change. They only came from the Lord.
They didn't come from a nagging wife or a nagging husband.
They didn't come from talking and talking and talking.
They came from prayer. And what strikes me about your
story is I've heard it multiple times is multiple times in this
(24:50):
story, God got you alone and there was no other place for you
to turn. And there was no solution.
You, you couldn't have fixed these things.
You couldn't have undone the affair.
You couldn't have undone the, the HIV.
He got you to, to a place where you, you had nowhere and and
that allowed you to not hold on.You didn't have a stronghold.
You could not hold on or controlor tight fist it anymore.
(25:12):
You had to surrender and release.
And and then the other thing that struck me is God meets our
needs when our husbands can't. And the big one is, is he is
refining us in the process of refining our husbands and and
when we can get our eyes off of our husbands and on to the Lord,
we find that God's refining all of us in in this whole thing.
(25:36):
And and we don't have time to gointo another story.
I wanted you to share, but I want you to share the principle
of it of the the story of name and people can go look it up and
read it, but you share about so often we want like these are
misconceptions of prayer. I kind of want to hit on so
often we as women, we want sharewhat you say, the miracle.
The miracle, but not the method the.
Miracle, but not the method. That that is what Naaman's story
(25:59):
strikes me, but we see it many times in the word where Naaman
was supposed to go dip in the Jordan 7 times but he didn't
want to for his healing. He thought that wasn't the way
God should heal him, right? And that's how we are so often.
We want, we go, God give me a miracle and he goes, I will.
It's going to look like nothing you ever could imagine or a plan
(26:19):
or would choose for that, right?But what I do works.
What I do has lasting change, asyou pointed out.
And so like, just like you're telling your ladies, you can't
go take a story and contrive it.And people would come to me and
said, tell me exactly what you did.
I'm going to do just what you did and pray that God saves my
marriage. Well, you're right, it doesn't
work that way. But God is at work in everyone's
(26:43):
lives, individually, specifically, personally,
efficiently, and supernaturally in a way that we could never
fathom. And so we.
Have to continue trusting him. And we do and often, like you
said, it's the trials that are needed to bring about the prayer
that we prayed. Like we, we, we pray it and it
(27:03):
is the trials. And, and honestly, it might be
us that's changed through it, right?
It might be us. It's, it's not always our way
that God answers it, like you said, but but he is answering it
and it's, it's very different looking.
So before we, we, we're going towrap up, I just want to kind of,
I want to hit a few things that like some practical, everybody
(27:23):
wants the practical give me the practical steps.
You probably have a lot of type A who have their notebooks out
the practical steps to cultivatea lifestyle of prayer.
And you and I are going to tag team this one.
What, what would you say are some of the the practical things
to help cultivate a life of prayer?
Well, well, I, I mean, initiallypray without ceasing is, you
(27:43):
know, prayer on my lips all day long.
But to cultivate a prayer time of sitting, maybe making a space
in your home, that is a morning routine of prayer and reading,
which I'm confident many do. But I think that a pattern most
of all, I would say the most important thing for me about a
(28:04):
prayer life is that keep it simple and keep it consistently
just on the on the on my lips, just talking to God all day
long. And that's what these young
homeschool Mamas wanna hear, because here's the reality.
They might not get a carve out an hour a morning with their tea
and their because they got kids crawling all over them and
puking on them and nursing them and all the things that.
(28:26):
And The thing is, is God still there in that?
And so it can be a simple prayerand all day long, and he hears
you Mamas that are busy, that are running ragged, who think, I
can't wait for the day I can sitwith my tea and pray.
It doesn't have to look like that.
It's just talking to the King ofkings and the Lord of Lords and
the God that loves you. And so you're right though, but
(28:47):
we have to be consistent and we have to be intentional.
Yeah. And I think the other thing is
to be what what I feel like God's shown me a lot through
prayer of my prayer life is the times that I sit down to pray
about things specifically or even in my conversation through
the Lord is to be a listener. You know, so many times we are
the one doing all the talking inour prayer life.
(29:07):
And to, to, to be in prayer doesn't always mean that you're
always talking, but that to be in prayer is to just be just
listening, to be in his presenceand to just cultivate.
And, and when he's speaking to you, to, you know, pursue that,
you know, right, his still smallvoice speaking to you in the
(29:29):
midst of changing a diaper or whatever you're doing.
You know, there's this, there's this kind of daily prayer,
there's the intercession time where you're really begging God
or seeking God for certain things and in that time writing
them down to watch him work. Yes, is so powerful to have some
sort of journaling in that case.So that way, when God answers
(29:51):
that prayer and you've been praying it, you can see those
victories. Yes, and then that helps you
when you go through the next trial to go remember when and I
really believe that as you guys walk through cancer this year,
there were probably a lot of remember when's on your voice.
Remember when God showed up in amiraculous way before.
And so our trials are in many ways blessings because they they
(30:11):
strengthen our faith. They strengthen our walk.
OK, a couple practical trips because we have to wrap it up
that I that I was thinking of is1.
It needs to be our first response, not our last.
And I learned that in my early years, it was like, OK, I'm
going to try to plan my way out of this.
I'm going to try to control and talk and, and, and do all the
things I'm going to try to administrate my way out of this
(30:33):
trial, right. And then if all else fails, then
I'm going to go seek the Lord. And we have to that that needs
to always be our first line, ourfirst response, our first
everything, not our last. And when we go to God with
prayer, then it it really takes the weight off of us.
It's not our job to do anymore. And then the second one is it
(30:55):
really starts with our thoughts being intentional to like you
said at the very beginning of this podcast last week, you
know, pray before you speak, pray it before you say it.
I think that is so important. And then ask God, should I even
say it? And if I should, how?
And then the other thing you hiton is find prayer warriors and
(31:16):
prayer partners. But we have to wrap it up.
And I have some fun questions that I love to ask.
I am dying that you already gaveyour favorite quote because
every time I ask this, I would say 90% of women when I ask them
their favorite quote, it's a Corey 10 boom quote.
I I mean, isn't that crazy? I would bet almost all of the
(31:36):
times these women are coming up with Corey 10 boom quotes and
they're all different. But she was an amazing woman.
So will you share now that people have heard your story?
I think the the impact of that verse holds a little more weight
now that we know your story. Will you share that that quote
from Corey Tenboom again? Yes, so Corey Tenboom wrote.
Forgiveness is setting the prisoner free, only to find out
(31:59):
that the prisoner was me. Wow.
That is powerful with her story,of course it's very powerful.
But and then now hearing my story, but I think it's one that
it kind of reminds me of. I tried to look this up but it's
a little unclear as to who wroteit.
But forgiveness is like drinkingpoison and it waiting for
someone else to die. I read that, sorry.
(32:21):
Unforgiveness and and so I, I thought I liked hers quote so
much. I'd read it years ago, but but
she was an amazing woman and I'mso grateful that so many women
are still learning about her andknowing her story because what a
hero of the faith. And I think sometimes we listen
to her story and we listen to your story and we're like, how
(32:42):
could you forgive something so big?
But then in our day-to-day life,many of us haven't experienced
something that huge. But you know, what I really have
a hard time forgiving is the fact that every time my husband
puts his dishwasher in the sink or his dish in the sink and not
the dishwasher, and sometimes it's those little tiny thorns,
that it might not be catastrophic, it might not be
(33:03):
infidelity, it might not be, youknow, all all these other
things. But that those kind of things
can start to, to get that littlepiece of gravel in the shoe and
it just starts to fester and fester.
And, and I struggled with that. I'm like, why?
And then my mind would say he's putting it in the sink just to
get to me or just to prove to methat he doesn't.
He. Doesn't care and and our women's
(33:25):
minds go there and when I finally someday went and I
released it and I said God, if he never puts it in the
dishwasher again, how hard is itto take that dish and praise you
and thank you that I have a the husband that sits in my home and
eats the food I make that I'm not alone and I could put that
dish in the dishwasher for him and and guess what ever since
(33:46):
then he's never put a dish in a dishwasher again.
It wasn't the fix, but I'm not bitter and I'm not grumpy and
I'm not mad because I was a prisoner right I was a prisoner
and I had to learn to just let that go because it didn't bother
him it didn't bother the kids, it didn't bother the dog.
It bothered me, and when I couldlearn to let that go, there was
peace. So I.
(34:07):
Reality is, we tend to think that we're the only one in that
story, but our husbands probablyhave the exact same story with
us. Right, like if.
You throw. One more Amazon box in the
garage. Just Kick It Out the door for.
Me to take care of. Exactly, exactly.
It's a give and take that we often don't realize and I love
that. I think that's such a great
word, Abby. That is such a well.
(34:28):
God is so good. OK, so favorite and I mean, how
do you pick but one of your favorite Bible verses?
Well. I I did have two lately, so this
would not be lifelong, but just lately and it's second Peter 1/5
through 8. But also for this reason, giving
all diligence, add to your faithvirtue to virtue knowledge, to
(34:48):
knowledge, self-control, to self-control, perseverance, to
perseverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness, love.But this is the best part.
For if these things are yours, and you abound, you will neither
be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ. Isn't that a great?
(35:10):
That is so good. There's a lot there.
If we do all those things, Kathy, if we, if that is our
focus, we will never focus on anything our husband is doing
wrong because we won't have timebecause we'll be working so hard
on those things that the Lord asks of us.
Yeah, one of the versions says you'll never stumble and I love.
That. So Lord, I I want to pursue the
(35:32):
things that are of you and for you because in that not only my
glorifying God, I'm I'm I'm I'm strengthened to be able to do
the things that he's asking me. I'm not derailed.
I have the victory and. So yeah, OK, that was one.
What was it? Did you get 2 in there?
I did not share the second one, but I can't.
(35:53):
Here's. Peter we studied first and
second Peter this year. So it's first Peter 1/3 through
5 and it says blessed be the Godand Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ according to his abundantmercy has begotten us again to a
living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
from the dead to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled that
(36:13):
does not fade away reserved in heaven for you who are kept by
the power of God through faith for salvation ready to revealed
in the last time. And that that's my yeah, that
heavenly hope you know, when allelse in this world is not going
the way. Hey we this is not our home and
we have a heavenly inheritance awaiting us and that that
(36:35):
encourages me. That is so much hope OK and
favorite worship song. I have to say, Disclaimer, you
sent this to me and I had never heard it and I listened to it
and wow, just, I don't know, first of all, how I've never
heard it, but it was so good. I'm not sure it's really a radio
version. I'm completely a huge fan of
Phil Wickham. I he used to go to youth pastors
(36:57):
retreats when we were in the ministry down South in
California. So to see how God's using him on
such an enormous venue and arenaright now is such a praise.
But this song is called Relationship.
But the there's two versions, one is the one on I believe
album, the other one is on the hometown album and it's acoustic
(37:19):
and he gives a devotion before each song on the hometown album
so that you can hear about his heart behind why he wrote the
book. I mean, this song, but this song
was so precious to me and just they're the one of the lines
that I like is that I don't haveto hide my scars because you've
already shown me yours. Wow.
(37:41):
And I just I just think, you know, the sweetness of the, the
intimacy of him and the relationship he desires with us.
Yes, I have listened to the songno less than 2000 times.
I'm pretty sure I love that. Good though, and it just reminds
us that this isn't about religion.
This isn't about, you know, showing up looking like a
perfect religious person. This is about a relationship
(38:03):
with the living God and and thatalone allows us to deal with the
hard things with a peace becausewe're dealing with in a
relationship with God and that is so powerful so.
The right. The right mindset in our mind
effects everything. A right realization of who we
are in Christ. Favorite book?
(38:24):
Oh Heaven by Randy Alcorn. Oh, I've not read that.
OK, everybody should read this book.
OK, writing it down, writing it,we'll link these things.
Yeah, so heaven right before Godis so good because had several
people to come to me and talk tome about their fear of that,
this life that they might be bored in heaven.
(38:44):
Oh my goodness, no way. So they.
Knew they shouldn't think that and they knew it was wrong.
And they were telling me on the download they were like, I can't
you know, these were older people getting ready to depart
this earth. Oh my.
And I'd sat at many a sick bed, many a deathbed and everybody
going it's it's it's it's all going to be better than this,
right. And I was like, we need
assurance. Yeah.
(39:06):
Of what the Bible teaches about heaven.
And so if you read this book, Randy's going to tell you it's a
biblical foundation for your imagination.
OK, OK. He's got you know, he's not
going to say I know all that. It's not one of those kind of
books where somebody went to heaven and tells you about it.
It's not like that at all. Good.
It's a Randy Alcorn is a theologian.
One of the things I've learned about theology is most
theologians don't agree, but almost every theologian
(39:27):
recommends Randy's book on heaven.
All different views of eschatology, Randy's book on
heaven. So I am a fan of Randy's Super
humble man. If you ever get a chance to see
or listen to anything he's done,Super Humble took on this work
just to help people get excited about their hope of heaven.
(39:48):
It's an enormous book. It's super thick, but they have
a, a, a, a smaller version, OK, but don't miss it.
So we finished this Bible study COVID, we finished it on a
Thursday and I think we were in shut, shut down the next week
from COVID. So talk about timely.
You know, here's COVID threatening everybody.
(40:09):
You're, you know, who's are all of our elderly people going to
die? Are are we going to die?
And God saw fit to take us through the hope of heaven just
prior to that. That is so cool.
God is God is so good. Kathy, I cannot thank you enough
for taking the story that the Lord walked you through and and
not shoving it down, but lettingGod use it for his glory and for
(40:32):
so many women for our good to beable to hear what God has done.
It gives us hope. It gives us encouragement and
just your love for Jesus and your love for for pointing women
back to him and everything they do.
We need more women like you. And I just, I thank you so much
for taking time out of your schedule to come and talk to our
audience. And I would I, we might cut this
(40:53):
if you're not safe saying this, But I would say that people are
more than welcome to reach out to you if they need a little bit
of encouragement and if, if theywant to, where can people find
you? You could e-mail me at
kathy@buellbiblechurch.com or ifyou're a Facebook person, I'm
Kathy Green Greene Roberts and Iwould love to reach out and and
(41:14):
connect with you. And Abby, I just want to say the
same about you. You are just an incredible woman
of faith, steady in the faith, strong in the faith, encouraging
us all. You're just delighted.
I'm so glad that the Lords brought you into my path.
You've blessed me so much and you're lots of fun.
You're lots of fun, so much fun.It's fun to we we can have lots
of fun together. Kathy drugged me out on the golf
(41:35):
course the other day. I'm not a golfer and I'd never
golfed. And she had Talk about grace
upon grace and patience. There I was out on the golf
course with her. But go find Kathy at Kathy at
Beale Bible Church. You'll also find her riding
around on the back of her husband's Harley or quilting
with a group of girlfriends or skiing down a mountain or paddle
boarding through the water. But I know that I know that you
(41:57):
will always find her sitting at the feet of the Lord in His
Word. And that's that's what makes her
such a gem. You can always find me anywhere.
You can find me on social media,Instagram, Facebook, wherever,
at Abby Rinella and also scrubbing toilets and teaching
children algebra one while I'm on my knees.
So thank you, Kathy, everybody, we will be back here next week
(42:18):
with a new host and a new guest,but it will be just as awesome.
We will always point you back tothe Lord schoolhouserock.com for
everything you need to know about the podcast, the movie,
the mission, all of that. And thank you all for listening.
We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
You're listening to the BiblicalFamily Network.
(42:39):
Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and we're the Co host of the Culture
Proof podcast. We want to invite you to join us
every week as we discuss what's happening in the world and then
filter those happenings through a decidedly biblical lens.
There are many questions, especially when we see what's
happening in our culture today, but the answers are found within
the word of God. So that's where we want to look.
(43:00):
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth, we remain culture proof.
I pressed into God like never before in my life, and what I
would say happened in that transferring time in my life was
that Jesus wasn't just my Savioranymore.
He became my Lord. He was my everything.
And I just said, Lord, do whatever it takes.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
I'm Abby Rinella and I'm excitedto be back with you this week
(00:21):
with my friend Kathy where we are talking about the power of a
praying wife. But first, before we dive back
into our conversation, I want tothank our sponsor, CTC Math.
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enjoys. Sign up today at ctcmath.com.
All right, right, we are back and I am so excited to dive
right back into this conversation with Kathy and
we're going to start. So many women reach out to me,
Kathy and they have all of thesemarriage problems and they say,
(01:25):
but you don't know what I'm going through.
And I think that like we talked a little bit about last week, is
sometimes we're so we're so nervous to share the hardships
in our life that we think that everybody has a perfect life.
And so then when something goes wrong in our life, we feel that
there's something wrong with us.But the, the reality is when we
share hardships that we've gone through, what we get to do more
(01:49):
so is we get to share how God redeems all things, how God is
in the really hard things, how he never leaves us, he never
forsakes us, how he's been through it and he loves us
through it. And so why I want you to Share
your story is your story of yourearly marriage is because I know
how many women are listening right now feeling so alone in
(02:10):
hard marriages, feeling so alonewhen things aren't the pretty
Pinterest perfect, you know, home, school, household,
marriage, children and they feelalone.
But I want you. Who is this most incredibly
godly woman who's come out on the other side?
Not to say you still don't walk through hard things, which you
do, but you've seen the hand of God.
(02:33):
And so I really believe that your story, but more
importantly, what God has done through your story and what you
have learned and how you've beenrefined through your story is
going to be such an incredible testimony and encouragement to
our listeners. So will you rewind us back where
we go in 37 years? 39 years, 30.
Nine years we're going. I met Jackie when I was 15, so
(02:56):
I'm 59 next month, so a lot of years ago.
And what I really want to stay say to your listeners is that we
don't realize that God is answering the very prayer that
we prayed. And we're going through maybe
some really hard things and we think what is happening here.
(03:17):
But if we were, if we were to see it from heaven's eyes, maybe
what we would find out is that this was the very prayer that we
prayed long ago. And so when I met my husband, I
prayed. I met him at 15, he was 17.
We dated for a while, broke up, got back together, and then got
married. And I prayed for God to bring me
(03:39):
the man that he had chosen for me, the man of my dreams, my
soul mate. Well, he did, but that didn't
mean it was going to be easy. He was a pastor's son in
rebellion. And I thought he was still the
sweet little pastor's boy who led me to Jesus when I was 15.
But now, Fast forward a few years.
He's 21. He's joined the Marine Corps,
(03:59):
and his father headed up with a indiscretion, I guess you would
call it. He left his mother for his
secretary, and it blew him out of the water and put him in a
sense of rebellion. And this sweet Christian boy was
now drinking and carrying on with women.
And this was before you were married.
(04:20):
Before we were married, I couldn't see it.
I knew he was probably drinking because the Marines kind of
bring that out in people. But I didn't realize that he had
been kind of, you know, dabblingwith women.
And so when we got married, you know, everything was was OK for
a little bit. But he got shipped off to Adak,
(04:42):
Alaska, which was an unaccompanied tour in the
Aleutian chain. And there was no way I could go.
And so he was alone and we were apart for a very, very long
time. And he ended up getting involved
with another woman who then they, he, they've got pregnant.
So she was pregnant. And so he calls me and tells me
(05:06):
I would like a divorce. I'm like, you know what?
We've just been apart a long time.
We can work this out. God's going to get us through
it. And he said, no, you don't
understand. She's pregnant and I need a
divorce. So I'm just wrecked.
I'm completely wrecked. I don't know what to do my But
what happened through that, Abby, is that I pressed into God
like never before in my life. And what I would say happened in
(05:28):
that transforming time in my life was that Jesus wasn't just
my savior anymore. He became my Lord.
I didn't really know fully what I did at 15, but now Jesus was
truly my Lord and my Savior and he was my everything.
And I just said, Lord, do whatever it takes, whatever it
takes. Wait, so let's stop.
(05:48):
The first prayer you prayed whenyou were 15 is give me all these
things and what I heard you. Give me the soulmate, yeah.
Right. And what I just heard you say is
God did in him, right? God gave you what you needed in
Him because your husband wasn't being that at the time.
So. It's such a great point you make
because so many times we put ourhusbands on the throne where God
(06:12):
belongs and we we get that Cinderella story that all I need
is a man who's going to make me happy.
Or even if you're not that kind of lady, we tend to put this
weight on our husbands to be ourAll in all.
And God is infinite mercy. It wrecks us with our walk with
God because it was founded on something that was never meant
to be. But it's a mercy because what
(06:34):
God's doing in the end is he's, he's saying, let me show you
what you really need. So you saw you knew you asked
for this, but what I'm going to do is I'm not going to fulfill
what you asked for. I'm going to give you what you
actually need. And what you need is a husband
who you understand is a fallibleman who can never be your God.
Only I can be your God. But I also am going to show you
(06:57):
my power in how I can transform your life, his life, and do the
impossible. Because I don't know how many of
you women out there believe this, but have said, I know I
did well, I could do a lot of things, but if my husband ever
cheated on me, that's it. I'm done, right?
And I was that girl. And so now I'm in this position
where my husband has unfortunately made the decision
(07:20):
to, you know, pursue the divorce.
But God, this is what God does. He puts him in an explosion and
blows him up. Wait, so he acts?
So you had just prayed God do whatever it takes, right?
This is your prayer, And then what happens?
And then he's about ready to give it, get a divorce, but he
gets in an explosion instead. So he's blowing.
(07:43):
He gets blown up in Adak, Alaska, thrown 30 feet in in the
air and breaks his back and he. But here's the interesting
thing. He has to come off island to get
his surgery. So I am now at a place where I
can go where he is. And the Marine Corps calls me
and says you have to be here. You're next of kin.
And I'm like, but we're getting a divorce.
Doesn't matter. You got to be here just.
(08:05):
But that's a but God moment, right?
But God. So God brings him, I mean brings
me. I have to go where he's at.
And of course, seeing each otheragain wasn't so easy to divorce.
This is the love of my life. I was, I did fall in love with
him at first sight and seeing itface to face wasn't so easy to
say, oh, I don't want to do thisanymore.
(08:26):
So we decide we're going to, we're going to work it out.
Well, God's not finished with him yet because we do work it
out. We do decide to stay together.
We moved to North Carolina to our next duty station, and I am
now pregnant with our first child.
And yet I can still see that he is not broken before the Lord.
He's not forgiven the the rebellion of his own father, and
(08:49):
he's not submitted himself back to God.
He's still mad at God and so I again start praying God do
whatever it takes. And then he comes home one day
and I'm pregnant. Now I'm supposed to, he's going
to go on a float on a submarine and I'm going to have the baby
alone. That's the plan, right?
(09:10):
So he comes home and he says he looks like he's seen a ghost and
he says I go, what's wrong? And he goes, do you want the
good news or the bad news? And I said, well, I want the
good news. And he goes, well, I'm not going
to go on the float. Oh, that's great news.
You're going to be here when thebaby's born.
This is great news. Wait a minute.
He still looks super rocked. So I said, what's the bad news?
(09:33):
And he goes, I'm HIV positive. Oh my goodness.
And at that moment, you know, this is in the 80s when Masters
and Johnson still thought that it could be transmitted through
saliva or mosquitoes. And it was sort of like the
COVID crisis where there was so much unknown and everybody
thought AIDS was a death. Well, AIDS is a death sentence,
but HIV is a death sentence. And it was terrifying.
(09:55):
There was no treatments really going on.
It was a very scary time. So it was like he had told me
basically, we're all going to die.
You are unborn child, everybody.Right.
And let me go back because I would bet a lot of our audience
is probably a lot younger than us.
And so I'm telling you that the gravity of coming home and
saying that to your wife, you aren't just saying I'm HIV
(10:18):
positive. You're essentially saying, like
you said, you're going to die. The baby's going to die.
We're all going to die. And I did this, right?
What you're hearing is I did this to you, right?
So go ahead. And in my mind, of course, I
know that the reason he's HIV positive is because he had been
unfaithful to me, right? But God in His mercy, who?
(10:40):
Because I had been spending timeat his feet, seeking his face
and praying and getting to know him, making him truly my Lord
and Savior through the 1st crisis when this one came along.
I don't, I didn't even know I said these words, but I said, Oh
my God, I don't want my husband to die.
(11:00):
And God used those words of grace to Pierce through the
heart of my husband's heart. And it broke him.
And that's the words that used God used to penetrate through
his hardness and his pain and his bitterness and it just broke
him. And he knew if she because he
knew me, he knew how I should have responded.
(11:21):
I should have said you did this to us.
Get out. I hate you and I will see you
again. But instead God gave me the
grace to give grace. Wow.
And. That grace was.
Used exactly and that grace was used to cause him to repent and
return to God and then after about well we gave birth to JC
(11:45):
our oldest child with a medevac helicopter on standby and
everybody dressed like they weregoing to go into you know hazmat
situation and and we gave birth to this child and we were
immediately awestruck by love asmost of us are when we meet our
first child we're like I thoughtI knew what love was but but
(12:08):
they're so we're holding this baby and and we're just trusting
God for a miracle and God in it is so good because he I would
pray 1st Corinthians 1013 over and over.
No temptation shall overtake youexcept such as is common to man,
but God is faithful and with thetemptation he will make a way
(12:29):
that you would be able to bear it.
And so I was trusting that praying the word, praying the
word girls, pray the word. If you you don't know how to
pray, take a scripture, take outthe pronouns, put yourself in
it, put your situation in it. Pray the word of God, it's power
and it's it's righteous prayer because it's his words.
(12:51):
And so I prayed, prayed, prayed and then we are now about six
months down the road. I'm in love with my baby.
My husband and I are doing great.
The Lord had had told him a story that just broke his heart
even further and caused further repentance.
Will you? Will you share that story with
us? OK, so I did share.
(13:11):
This is the story you remember. Yes, I do remember the story.
We go to church one day and we're in church with our new
baby. And this was like the final, I
think, repentance straw for Jackie, like he was repenting,
but he, this just broke him. And what the pastor had said was
he was preaching out of Hebrew 6.
(13:32):
And he said there was a story ofa man who loved his son so much
that they played ball every day after school.
And so he was, I mean, after work.
So he was coming home from work and his, he could see his boy
down the street was waiting for him with the ball.
And so he's coming down the road.
Well, all of a sudden the ball went in the street.
The boy chased it and was hit byanother car and right in front
(13:54):
of his father's face. And his father is devastated and
he runs out of the car and he scoops up his child off this
blood stained asphalt and takes him to the hospital.
But they arrive too late and theboy dies and the father is
completely and his wife are heartbroken.
And on their way home, they notice that in front of their
house, there's this pool of blood in the asphalt that was
(14:17):
their sons. And they're just completely
devastated. But what they also noticed is
that the cars were driving over top of it just like that.
It was just the stain on the side of the asphalt meant
nothing to them. And this preacher pointed his
finger and he said, some of you have been trampling through the
blood of Jesus Christ like it's nothing.
(14:38):
And when Jackie heard that, he was just weeping, He was broken
and he just confessed all and has never looked back since.
Ever since then, he's been firedup, full on, sold out for Jesus
Christ. That's so incredible.
And let me tell you, when I heard that story initially, I
thought so many women are going to hear this and go, oh, I'm
(14:58):
going to share that story with my husband because then that's
going to change him, right? Like if only I could have the
right story or the right words to tell my husband or the right
thing to say, I'm going to completely turn his life.
Because there's so many women listening right now that feel in
this hopeless place that they just wish their husband would
get it. But what I want to say is it
wasn't your words. There was nothing you could have
(15:20):
said. It was God.
And that's what brought the lasting change to Jackie.
And so rather than run out rightnow and tell your husband that
story thinking it's going to change him, pray God bring the
right person, the right words you speak to my husband in
whatever way you know is going to take.
And moms, we can close our mouths because who do we think?
(15:42):
I mean, do we really think that anything we have to say is
greater than anything God has tosay?
And so that's what really struckme about that story, is it it
didn't come out of your mouth because anything that came out
of your mouth would probably go in one ear out the other.
Probably it was the Lord. And that's what brought the
lasting change. Well, and there's times when
God's going to use you, yeah, and and give you the grace to
(16:05):
give grace like we talked about.And there's times when he's
going to use others. But what we can't do is try to
control it. We started, we talked a little
bit last time about this desire to control, which is really the
curse of Eve. Yeah, totally.
It goes back to the garden, right, that God said you will
desire your husband, right, but he shall rule over you.
(16:26):
And that desire isn't like, oh, I just want to love him.
No, it's I want to control yes, and so that control is is
definitely the thing that I feelas wives we can continually
surrender that because it sneaksup on us.
It just it just it's part of thefall of man and it's just going
(16:47):
to be in our nature. And even if you don't always
recognize how you do it, Maybe you do it through subtleties or
whatever, but I think just keeping a short accounts with
the Lord about showing me Lord, where am I and I constantly do
this in my marriage every day. So back to the.
Actually, before we before we goback, I want to take take a
(17:09):
quick break, but I know that everybody's on the edge of their
seat. I mean, we've kind of come
around and we've seen God do what only God can do.
But we're going to come back in just a minute and finish out
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bjupresshomeschool.com. OK, we are back and Kathy,
(18:37):
everybody is on the edge of their seat excited to to hear.
I mean last you said is God got a hold of Jackie and changed his
heart and changed his life and then what?
And it's like you said, the kindof work that only God could do.
Yes, and. So as we're he's, you know,
pressing into God, we're trusting God for a miracle and I
(18:58):
start to get. Scared because at this point you
guys still have HIV, I mean. We still have the diet.
He's yes, he's going to treatments.
OK. They're trying to, they're
trying to, you know, figure out what to do with them in the
Marine Corps. And I go to bed one night.
And this is where I think the enemy likes to get a foothold
with us. You know, I, I have a bad dream
(19:19):
and this there's a terrible dream.
I'm in my dream. I mean, many of you've seen, you
know, like, you know, Sleepy Hollow or Dickens movies, you
know, some really dark, scary cemetery.
And I'm in this dark, scary cemetery and I'm looking at
Jackie's tombstone. Jackie's died in my dream.
And then there's a little headstone next to it, which is
(19:40):
our baby that I'm just madly in love with Jaycee.
And then I'm coughing, sick withAIDS and I wake up and I just
get filled with fear. And fear is a robber.
Fear is a liar. Fear is a foothold every time.
And how do we surrender our fearis is probably one of our great
(20:01):
pursuits because fear sneaks in in the in the back door.
And so I'm riddled with fear andI go to my my kitchen table and
I just cry out to the Lord because that's where we go and
we're afraid, right? Where does my health come from?
When my heart. Is overwhelmed lead me to the
rock who is higher than I I I have no strength so I go to the
(20:22):
Lord and I cry out Lord I'm terrified and actually I'm
feeling a little bitter because if the my baby dies it's because
of him. He is his sin and I'm struggling
and I'm crying and I just finally, you know, get to the
end of that and I wipe my tears and I go, well, I guess I better
go get the mail and girls in themail.
(20:44):
I'll say, I don't know, maybe there's men listening to y'all.
They're in the mail. There was a letter from the
Marine Corps that said we have no explanation for this
whatsoever. But On this date, Jackie Roberts
was HIV positive. And On this date, he has no
traces of HIV in his system whatsoever.
My goodness. And just like that, God said
(21:06):
peace be still. The storm has ceased, but it
wasn't quite over because even though we celebrated the victory
and we looked at our newborn sonand thought, OK, we can start
planning a future together. Then we had about four years of
me trying to reconcile the the adultery and trusting my husband
(21:30):
again. Trusting in God, leaning it on
into my understanding and it wasa process.
It didn't. You know, sometimes when people
hear my testimony, they're like,I just don't have that much
faith. Well, I didn't either, right?
The faith that God gave me was inched along by by crawling many
times on my knees and prayer andalso through a lot of mistakes
(21:52):
and one of the mistakes. The last thing I just want to
share in regards to this testimony because I think this
is the true victory and that is,you know, God.
He worked in me in prayer and giving grace to Jackie.
He worked in me in trusting him with my fears and surrendering
and then bringing a healing. He worked in that.
But where the reverend met the road was forgiveness, real
(22:14):
forgiveness. The forgiveness that doesn't
sneak you up and attack you and throw you down and cause you to
do harmful things to others because you really haven't let
it go. So what happened was I would I,
I would when Jack, you know, would have an argument, I would,
I would throw in his face this, you know, you're just lucky I
stayed with you. And I'm not a proud of that, but
(22:38):
that's what I did. And he, he perceived that I was
scared that he'd leave me again or hurt me again.
So he would just solidify, I will never leave you.
I'm here with you. I'm never going to do that to
you again. Well, I liked that affirmation
more than I liked trusting God with our story.
So I created situations where I could manipulate that out of
(23:01):
him. Well, one day as I go to
manipulate him in this fashion, the Holy Spirit got a hold of my
mind and he showed me, you have two paths, your rights, which is
a wide open path of your right. He hurts you, you're justified
and hurting him back. Or you can do it my way when you
forgive him. And that road was a kind of a
(23:22):
little path I couldn't quite seearound, but the corner that I
could see around was filled withcolor and life and beauty.
When I knew at that moment I never again will say those words
to him. I forgive you once and for all.
I'm never going to bring it up again.
It's over, it's forgiven, it's forgotten as far as the east is
from the West. Just like Jesus forgives us, I
(23:44):
forgive you. And then we truly at that point
started to flourish and grow in freedom and build back a
marriage that you know, just so you know that that I'm so madly
in love with this guy. The minute I hear his motorcycle
turn the corner, I, my heart goes pitter patter.
After 39 years, I can't wait to see him.
I can't wait to be with him. He's my favorite person in the
whole world. God has restored it all in His
(24:06):
mercy. Because that's what he does and
that's only what, that, that's what only he can do.
And then I look at the, the, thevery small amount of time that
I've known you guys, but I've, I've seen not God didn't just
restore your marriage, but then he has used your marriage to
bring so many people to him to, to change the lives of others,
(24:27):
to grow a church that's seeking him.
And, and I listen to each of these steps and I, I look at it
and I go every change, the changes in Jackie, the changes
in you, each change. They only came from the Lord.
They didn't come from a nagging wife or a nagging husband.
They didn't come from talking and talking and talking.
They came from prayer. And what strikes me about your
story is I've heard it multiple times is multiple times in this
(24:50):
story, God got you alone and there was no other place for you
to turn. And there was no solution.
You, you couldn't have fixed these things.
You couldn't have undone the affair.
You couldn't have undone the, the HIV.
He got you to, to a place where you, you had nowhere and and
that allowed you to not hold on.You didn't have a stronghold.
You could not hold on or controlor tight fist it anymore.
(25:12):
You had to surrender and release.
And and then the other thing that struck me is God meets our
needs when our husbands can't. And the big one is, is he is
refining us in the process of refining our husbands and and
when we can get our eyes off of our husbands and on to the Lord,
we find that God's refining all of us in in this whole thing.
(25:36):
And and we don't have time to gointo another story.
I wanted you to share, but I want you to share the principle
of it of the the story of name and people can go look it up and
read it, but you share about so often we want like these are
misconceptions of prayer. I kind of want to hit on so
often we as women, we want sharewhat you say, the miracle.
The miracle, but not the method the.
Miracle, but not the method. That that is what Naaman's story
(25:59):
strikes me, but we see it many times in the word where Naaman
was supposed to go dip in the Jordan 7 times but he didn't
want to for his healing. He thought that wasn't the way
God should heal him, right? And that's how we are so often.
We want, we go, God give me a miracle and he goes, I will.
It's going to look like nothing you ever could imagine or a plan
(26:19):
or would choose for that, right?But what I do works.
What I do has lasting change, asyou pointed out.
And so like, just like you're telling your ladies, you can't
go take a story and contrive it.And people would come to me and
said, tell me exactly what you did.
I'm going to do just what you did and pray that God saves my
marriage. Well, you're right, it doesn't
work that way. But God is at work in everyone's
(26:43):
lives, individually, specifically, personally,
efficiently, and supernaturally in a way that we could never
fathom. And so we.
Have to continue trusting him. And we do and often, like you
said, it's the trials that are needed to bring about the prayer
that we prayed. Like we, we, we pray it and it
(27:03):
is the trials. And, and honestly, it might be
us that's changed through it, right?
It might be us. It's, it's not always our way
that God answers it, like you said, but but he is answering it
and it's, it's very different looking.
So before we, we, we're going towrap up, I just want to kind of,
I want to hit a few things that like some practical, everybody
(27:23):
wants the practical give me the practical steps.
You probably have a lot of type A who have their notebooks out
the practical steps to cultivatea lifestyle of prayer.
And you and I are going to tag team this one.
What, what would you say are some of the the practical things
to help cultivate a life of prayer?
Well, well, I, I mean, initiallypray without ceasing is, you
(27:43):
know, prayer on my lips all day long.
But to cultivate a prayer time of sitting, maybe making a space
in your home, that is a morning routine of prayer and reading,
which I'm confident many do. But I think that a pattern most
of all, I would say the most important thing for me about a
(28:04):
prayer life is that keep it simple and keep it consistently
just on the on the on my lips, just talking to God all day
long. And that's what these young
homeschool Mamas wanna hear, because here's the reality.
They might not get a carve out an hour a morning with their tea
and their because they got kids crawling all over them and
puking on them and nursing them and all the things that.
(28:26):
And The thing is, is God still there in that?
And so it can be a simple prayerand all day long, and he hears
you Mamas that are busy, that are running ragged, who think, I
can't wait for the day I can sitwith my tea and pray.
It doesn't have to look like that.
It's just talking to the King ofkings and the Lord of Lords and
the God that loves you. And so you're right though, but
(28:47):
we have to be consistent and we have to be intentional.
Yeah. And I think the other thing is
to be what what I feel like God's shown me a lot through
prayer of my prayer life is the times that I sit down to pray
about things specifically or even in my conversation through
the Lord is to be a listener. You know, so many times we are
the one doing all the talking inour prayer life.
(29:07):
And to, to, to be in prayer doesn't always mean that you're
always talking, but that to be in prayer is to just be just
listening, to be in his presenceand to just cultivate.
And, and when he's speaking to you, to, you know, pursue that,
you know, right, his still smallvoice speaking to you in the
(29:29):
midst of changing a diaper or whatever you're doing.
You know, there's this, there's this kind of daily prayer,
there's the intercession time where you're really begging God
or seeking God for certain things and in that time writing
them down to watch him work. Yes, is so powerful to have some
sort of journaling in that case.So that way, when God answers
(29:51):
that prayer and you've been praying it, you can see those
victories. Yes, and then that helps you
when you go through the next trial to go remember when and I
really believe that as you guys walk through cancer this year,
there were probably a lot of remember when's on your voice.
Remember when God showed up in amiraculous way before.
And so our trials are in many ways blessings because they they
(30:11):
strengthen our faith. They strengthen our walk.
OK, a couple practical trips because we have to wrap it up
that I that I was thinking of is1.
It needs to be our first response, not our last.
And I learned that in my early years, it was like, OK, I'm
going to try to plan my way out of this.
I'm going to try to control and talk and, and, and do all the
things I'm going to try to administrate my way out of this
(30:33):
trial, right. And then if all else fails, then
I'm going to go seek the Lord. And we have to that that needs
to always be our first line, ourfirst response, our first
everything, not our last. And when we go to God with
prayer, then it it really takes the weight off of us.
It's not our job to do anymore. And then the second one is it
(30:55):
really starts with our thoughts being intentional to like you
said at the very beginning of this podcast last week, you
know, pray before you speak, pray it before you say it.
I think that is so important. And then ask God, should I even
say it? And if I should, how?
And then the other thing you hiton is find prayer warriors and
(31:16):
prayer partners. But we have to wrap it up.
And I have some fun questions that I love to ask.
I am dying that you already gaveyour favorite quote because
every time I ask this, I would say 90% of women when I ask them
their favorite quote, it's a Corey 10 boom quote.
I I mean, isn't that crazy? I would bet almost all of the
(31:36):
times these women are coming up with Corey 10 boom quotes and
they're all different. But she was an amazing woman.
So will you share now that people have heard your story?
I think the the impact of that verse holds a little more weight
now that we know your story. Will you share that that quote
from Corey Tenboom again? Yes, so Corey Tenboom wrote.
Forgiveness is setting the prisoner free, only to find out
(31:59):
that the prisoner was me. Wow.
That is powerful with her story,of course it's very powerful.
But and then now hearing my story, but I think it's one that
it kind of reminds me of. I tried to look this up but it's
a little unclear as to who wroteit.
But forgiveness is like drinkingpoison and it waiting for
someone else to die. I read that, sorry.
(32:21):
Unforgiveness and and so I, I thought I liked hers quote so
much. I'd read it years ago, but but
she was an amazing woman and I'mso grateful that so many women
are still learning about her andknowing her story because what a
hero of the faith. And I think sometimes we listen
to her story and we listen to your story and we're like, how
(32:42):
could you forgive something so big?
But then in our day-to-day life,many of us haven't experienced
something that huge. But you know, what I really have
a hard time forgiving is the fact that every time my husband
puts his dishwasher in the sink or his dish in the sink and not
the dishwasher, and sometimes it's those little tiny thorns,
that it might not be catastrophic, it might not be
(33:03):
infidelity, it might not be, youknow, all all these other
things. But that those kind of things
can start to, to get that littlepiece of gravel in the shoe and
it just starts to fester and fester.
And, and I struggled with that. I'm like, why?
And then my mind would say he's putting it in the sink just to
get to me or just to prove to methat he doesn't.
He. Doesn't care and and our women's
(33:25):
minds go there and when I finally someday went and I
released it and I said God, if he never puts it in the
dishwasher again, how hard is itto take that dish and praise you
and thank you that I have a the husband that sits in my home and
eats the food I make that I'm not alone and I could put that
dish in the dishwasher for him and and guess what ever since
(33:46):
then he's never put a dish in a dishwasher again.
It wasn't the fix, but I'm not bitter and I'm not grumpy and
I'm not mad because I was a prisoner right I was a prisoner
and I had to learn to just let that go because it didn't bother
him it didn't bother the kids, it didn't bother the dog.
It bothered me, and when I couldlearn to let that go, there was
peace. So I.
(34:07):
Reality is, we tend to think that we're the only one in that
story, but our husbands probablyhave the exact same story with
us. Right, like if.
You throw. One more Amazon box in the
garage. Just Kick It Out the door for.
Me to take care of. Exactly, exactly.
It's a give and take that we often don't realize and I love
that. I think that's such a great
word, Abby. That is such a well.
(34:28):
God is so good. OK, so favorite and I mean, how
do you pick but one of your favorite Bible verses?
Well. I I did have two lately, so this
would not be lifelong, but just lately and it's second Peter 1/5
through 8. But also for this reason, giving
all diligence, add to your faithvirtue to virtue knowledge, to
(34:48):
knowledge, self-control, to self-control, perseverance, to
perseverance godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness, love.But this is the best part.
For if these things are yours, and you abound, you will neither
be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus
Christ. Isn't that a great?
(35:10):
That is so good. There's a lot there.
If we do all those things, Kathy, if we, if that is our
focus, we will never focus on anything our husband is doing
wrong because we won't have timebecause we'll be working so hard
on those things that the Lord asks of us.
Yeah, one of the versions says you'll never stumble and I love.
That. So Lord, I I want to pursue the
(35:32):
things that are of you and for you because in that not only my
glorifying God, I'm I'm I'm I'm strengthened to be able to do
the things that he's asking me. I'm not derailed.
I have the victory and. So yeah, OK, that was one.
What was it? Did you get 2 in there?
I did not share the second one, but I can't.
(35:53):
Here's. Peter we studied first and
second Peter this year. So it's first Peter 1/3 through
5 and it says blessed be the Godand Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ according to his abundantmercy has begotten us again to a
living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
from the dead to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled that
(36:13):
does not fade away reserved in heaven for you who are kept by
the power of God through faith for salvation ready to revealed
in the last time. And that that's my yeah, that
heavenly hope you know, when allelse in this world is not going
the way. Hey we this is not our home and
we have a heavenly inheritance awaiting us and that that
(36:35):
encourages me. That is so much hope OK and
favorite worship song. I have to say, Disclaimer, you
sent this to me and I had never heard it and I listened to it
and wow, just, I don't know, first of all, how I've never
heard it, but it was so good. I'm not sure it's really a radio
version. I'm completely a huge fan of
Phil Wickham. I he used to go to youth pastors
(36:57):
retreats when we were in the ministry down South in
California. So to see how God's using him on
such an enormous venue and arenaright now is such a praise.
But this song is called Relationship.
But the there's two versions, one is the one on I believe
album, the other one is on the hometown album and it's acoustic
(37:19):
and he gives a devotion before each song on the hometown album
so that you can hear about his heart behind why he wrote the
book. I mean, this song, but this song
was so precious to me and just they're the one of the lines
that I like is that I don't haveto hide my scars because you've
already shown me yours. Wow.
(37:41):
And I just I just think, you know, the sweetness of the, the
intimacy of him and the relationship he desires with us.
Yes, I have listened to the songno less than 2000 times.
I'm pretty sure I love that. Good though, and it just reminds
us that this isn't about religion.
This isn't about, you know, showing up looking like a
perfect religious person. This is about a relationship
(38:03):
with the living God and and thatalone allows us to deal with the
hard things with a peace becausewe're dealing with in a
relationship with God and that is so powerful so.
The right. The right mindset in our mind
effects everything. A right realization of who we
are in Christ. Favorite book?
(38:24):
Oh Heaven by Randy Alcorn. Oh, I've not read that.
OK, everybody should read this book.
OK, writing it down, writing it,we'll link these things.
Yeah, so heaven right before Godis so good because had several
people to come to me and talk tome about their fear of that,
this life that they might be bored in heaven.
(38:44):
Oh my goodness, no way. So they.
Knew they shouldn't think that and they knew it was wrong.
And they were telling me on the download they were like, I can't
you know, these were older people getting ready to depart
this earth. Oh my.
And I'd sat at many a sick bed, many a deathbed and everybody
going it's it's it's it's all going to be better than this,
right. And I was like, we need
assurance. Yeah.
(39:06):
Of what the Bible teaches about heaven.
And so if you read this book, Randy's going to tell you it's a
biblical foundation for your imagination.
OK, OK. He's got you know, he's not
going to say I know all that. It's not one of those kind of
books where somebody went to heaven and tells you about it.
It's not like that at all. Good.
It's a Randy Alcorn is a theologian.
One of the things I've learned about theology is most
theologians don't agree, but almost every theologian
(39:27):
recommends Randy's book on heaven.
All different views of eschatology, Randy's book on
heaven. So I am a fan of Randy's Super
humble man. If you ever get a chance to see
or listen to anything he's done,Super Humble took on this work
just to help people get excited about their hope of heaven.
(39:48):
It's an enormous book. It's super thick, but they have
a, a, a, a smaller version, OK, but don't miss it.
So we finished this Bible study COVID, we finished it on a
Thursday and I think we were in shut, shut down the next week
from COVID. So talk about timely.
You know, here's COVID threatening everybody.
(40:09):
You're, you know, who's are all of our elderly people going to
die? Are are we going to die?
And God saw fit to take us through the hope of heaven just
prior to that. That is so cool.
God is God is so good. Kathy, I cannot thank you enough
for taking the story that the Lord walked you through and and
not shoving it down, but lettingGod use it for his glory and for
(40:32):
so many women for our good to beable to hear what God has done.
It gives us hope. It gives us encouragement and
just your love for Jesus and your love for for pointing women
back to him and everything they do.
We need more women like you. And I just, I thank you so much
for taking time out of your schedule to come and talk to our
audience. And I would I, we might cut this
(40:53):
if you're not safe saying this, But I would say that people are
more than welcome to reach out to you if they need a little bit
of encouragement and if, if theywant to, where can people find
you? You could e-mail me at
kathy@buellbiblechurch.com or ifyou're a Facebook person, I'm
Kathy Green Greene Roberts and Iwould love to reach out and and
(41:14):
connect with you. And Abby, I just want to say the
same about you. You are just an incredible woman
of faith, steady in the faith, strong in the faith, encouraging
us all. You're just delighted.
I'm so glad that the Lords brought you into my path.
You've blessed me so much and you're lots of fun.
You're lots of fun, so much fun.It's fun to we we can have lots
of fun together. Kathy drugged me out on the golf
(41:35):
course the other day. I'm not a golfer and I'd never
golfed. And she had Talk about grace
upon grace and patience. There I was out on the golf
course with her. But go find Kathy at Kathy at
Beale Bible Church. You'll also find her riding
around on the back of her husband's Harley or quilting
with a group of girlfriends or skiing down a mountain or paddle
boarding through the water. But I know that I know that you
(41:57):
will always find her sitting at the feet of the Lord in His
Word. And that's that's what makes her
such a gem. You can always find me anywhere.
You can find me on social media,Instagram, Facebook, wherever,
at Abby Rinella and also scrubbing toilets and teaching
children algebra one while I'm on my knees.
So thank you, Kathy, everybody, we will be back here next week
(42:18):
with a new host and a new guest,but it will be just as awesome.
We will always point you back tothe Lord schoolhouserock.com for
everything you need to know about the podcast, the movie,
the mission, all of that. And thank you all for listening.
We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
You're listening to the BiblicalFamily Network.
(42:39):
Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and we're the Co host of the Culture
Proof podcast. We want to invite you to join us
every week as we discuss what's happening in the world and then
filter those happenings through a decidedly biblical lens.
There are many questions, especially when we see what's
happening in our culture today, but the answers are found within
the word of God. So that's where we want to look.
(43:00):
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth, we remain culture proof.
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