"Logic is not just correct reasoning. It’s thinking like God.” ~ Dr. Jason Lisle
Yvette Hampton sits down with Dr. Jason Lisle to explore why Christian homeschooling needs more than just “Sunday faith.” Discover how to teach science, history, literature, and especially LOGIC from a Christian worldview! Dr. Lisle, renowned Christian astrophysicist, expounds on how logic itself confirms biblical truth and why every homeschool family should make logic foundational in their curriculum. Plus, get practical tools for identifying fallacies and equipping your kids (and yourself!) to defend the faith with confidence.
🔎 Topics Covered:
- Why all subjects should start with a Christian worldview
- Dismantling the sacred/secular divide in education
- How natural laws display God’s power
- Understanding and spotting logical fallacies
- The unique role of astronomy in declaring God’s glory
Recommended Resources:
Introduction to Logic, by Dr. Jason Lisle
Taking Back Astronomy: The Heavens DeclareCreation, by Dr. Jason Lisle
Fractals: The Secret Code of Creation, by Dr. Jason Lisle
More books from Dr. Jason Lisle John Gill’s Commentary on the whole Bible
John Gill’s Commentary (Online Version)
Recommended Podcasts:
Teaching Science from a Biblical Worldview – David Rives, Part 1
Teaching Science: Harmonizing Faith with Facts – David Rives, Part 2
Teaching Science: Exploring Creation Through Every Grade – David Rives, Part 3
Sponsors:
Apologia is a Christ-centered, award-winning homeschool curriculum provider. Our mission is to help homeschooling students and families learn, live, and defend the Christian faith through our print and digital curriculum and online classes.
BJU Press Homeschool is dedicated to providing homeschool families with academically strong curriculum rooted in a biblical worldview. They offer a complete curriculum from preschool through 12th grade, available in both traditional textbooks and video courses. By teaching through the lens of Christ’s power, they help students view the world through the transformative story of God’s creation
CTCMath specializes in providing online video tutorials that take a multi-sensory a
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(00:00):
Logic is not just correct reasoning, it's thinking like
God. And how can that be?
Because all God's thinking is correct, so we have a limited
ability to think in a way that'safter his character.
It's something that is only consistent with a Christian
worldview. Hey everyone, this is Yvette
Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse
Rock podcast. I am back this week with Doctor
(00:20):
Jason Lyle and I'm so excited tohave him back with me.
If you missed last week's episode with him, go back and
listen to that. We, we, we talked about science
and about Genesis and about God's word and how we can point
our kids to Jesus using the wordof God.
Of course, I mean, we talk aboutthat on the podcast all the
time, but we talked about the importance of God's word and
understanding it and how we can understand it better.
(00:43):
And so, so go back and listen tothat.
If you missed it. We are going to get back into
our conversation today. But before we do, I want to say
thank you to our sponsor, Bjupress Homeschool.
If you guys are looking for strong Christian worldview
curriculum, go to bjupresshomeschool.com.
They're dedicated to providing homeschool families with
academically strong curriculum that's rooted in a biblical
(01:03):
worldview. And they offer complete
curriculum from preschool through 12th grade, which is
available in both traditional textbooks and video courses.
And we've used both. We've used both their textbook
courses and video courses, and it's been great for our family.
You guys know we love BGU Press Homeschool and we use them as
part of our homeschooling curriculum.
They have lessons that will encourage critical thinking as
(01:25):
well as activities and lessons that support multi sensory
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Check them out at bjupresshomeschool.com.
That's bjupresshomeschool.com. Well, Doctor Lyle, welcome back
to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.I'm so glad to have you back
with me this week. I want to talk about a few more
(01:46):
things where we were talking last week about the importance
of God's Word and respecting God's Word.
And one of the things that you talked about as you were talking
through your education is that you were raised up in with a
secular education. You were raised up in public
school, and so I want to talk about how you disentangled
yourself, to use a, a, a popularword today, right?
(02:09):
How did you disentangle yourself?
You don't want to disentangle yourself from the Christian
faith as some are doing, but howdid you disentangle yourself
from the secular education that you were brought up with?
I first of all, I think it was very helpful.
Kudos to my parents who are Christians and also brought me
to church and they taught me theBible.
So that, that certainly helped. That being said, I, I, I
(02:32):
wouldn't recommend that combination of, of, you know,
Christianity on Sunday, but then9 through 5 on every other day
of the week, You know, 14,000 hours of secular education.
Not a good system. Because I, when I graduated from
high school, I was a Christian. I genuinely believed in Jesus.
But I have to tell you, my worldview was more or less
secular. It was kind of like a secular
(02:54):
Sunday with a Christian charity on top, really.
And that's not a good, that's not a good way to do it.
I've spent the last several decades of my life trying to
undo that, trying to think through Christian just as one
example, just because I the way I was taught science in school,
even though I never embraced evolution or anything like that.
Nonetheless, the secular view ofscience is that the universe is
(03:16):
autonomous. It kind of runs on its own and
there are these laws of nature that it obeys.
And then if you believe in God, he intervenes and does a miracle
every now and then. That's not a Christian view of
things. And it took me a while to
realize, wait a minute. The reason there are laws of
nature is because God is constantly upholding his
universe by his power. That's what the Bible teaches
that in Christ, all things are are held together, that he
(03:38):
upholds all things by the word of his power, the expression of
his power. And so the reason they're laws
of nature, they're not an alternative to God's power.
They are God's power. And the reason we can write down
equations and things like that that describe the laws of nature
is because God thinks, yes, mathematically, that's why it
works. And it took me a while to
realize that I was even defending the faith before I'd
(04:00):
it really gelled with me that natural laws are God's power.
Just things like that, that and what helped me to disentangle
that reading God's Word, being in church on Sunday,
fellowshipping with other Christians, and especially
learning from Christian scholarswho were further ahead on the
road than I was. And so there are other, there
are Christian ministries. I was very blessed by our sister
(04:24):
ministry, Answers in Genesis. I actually worked there for a
while and was and was blessed todo that.
They had a very positive influence on me and helping me
to think through some of these issues and realize that that
secular scientists have their presuppositions through which
they interpret the evidence and that they draw some false
conclusions, not because the evidence is bad, but because
their way of thinking about it is fallacious.
(04:46):
And so that really helped me to,to, to disentangle these things.
I was very blessed by the work of Greg Bonson.
He, he, he's with the Lord now, but he was a very brilliant
Christian apologist, pastor, PhDphilosopher, but Christian
philosopher and, and, and quite brilliant.
And he, he did a number of debates and I learned a lot from
(05:07):
him and, and other, other leaders.
So that's what's been helpful tome, studying the Bible, being
around other Christians, lookingfor Christian scholars who are
are farther ahead on the road than I was.
Yeah, talk through some of the subjects because as we are
teaching our kids, you know, we're teaching them science, but
we're also teaching them historyand literature and, you know,
many other things that go along with home education.
(05:30):
And so sometimes we might think of, well, it's OK to teach all
the other things maybe from a secular perspective, as long as
we teach science from a Christian perspective.
Talk about the importance of teaching all subjects from a
Christian worldview. Now the Bible says Proverbs 17,
the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
The fools despise wisdom and instruction.
(05:51):
So knowledge begins with submitting to God and his
standards, his presuppositions, all subjects.
Therefore, if if you're going tolearn truth, they, they need to
begin with God. And if you don't get that, then
first of all, you'll never understand the relevance of that
subject. Again, going through the public
school system, I didn't care at all about history.
(06:12):
I didn't care about literature. I like science because that's
something God just kind of put in me.
But what if I'd been taught those, those subjects
literature, history from a Christian perspective.
See, if you're taught it from a secular perspective, you know,
we're, you know, we just evolvedfrom the slime.
Then what is history? History is just chemical
accidents interacting with otherchemical accidents.
And they're all dead now anyway.Who cares?
(06:33):
What could be more boring than that?
What's literature? Literature is just the written
results of chemical accidents. Who cares about that?
But if you study it from a Christian perspective, history
is God's plan to save people, a group of people for himself.
And you see that borne out throughout history and, and, and
literature. What if, what if I'd been taught
(06:54):
the Bible is literature? And by studying literature, you
can you can better understand Scripture.
And so all these little things that I'd learn in my grammar
literature class, like Synecdoche, when am I going to
use that when studying the Bibleis when you're going to use that
the Bible, you know, synecdoche is when you when you I was
going. To say please explain what that
is. Yeah, yeah.
I don't blame you. Synecdoche is when you represent
(07:15):
the part for the whole and or the whole for the part.
And so it's a, it's an idiomaticuse of speech.
Like for example, when when the Bible says that God hates a
lying tongue, Is it the tongue he hates?
No, it's, it's, it's the person he hates the, the sin of lying,
right? He's using the part to represent
the whole. We use it today when we say Joe
has 8 mouths to feed. Really just mouths.
(07:36):
I thought he had like 8 people he had to.
Well, the mouth is the part mostassociated with food, so it
represents the whole. That's synecdoche.
I learned that in high school, but I didn't care about it
because I didn't see how I was going to use it.
Until you start looking into thescriptures and you say, Oh yeah,
God hates feet that run to mischief.
Oh, but he's using that to represent the person or hands
that shed innocent blood. Well, that's, that's
representing the person that sheds innocent blood.
(07:58):
He's using the part of the person that's most associated
with that action. So by learning these things
about literature, you can betterunderstand Scripture.
Yeah, man, if I hadn't known that I would have been the, the
1st in class in, in my, in my literature class.
And if I'd have learned about the history of the church and
how that, how that relates to towhat we do in church today and
why there are different denominations and so on, man,
(08:20):
that would have been a much moreenriching experience.
And also in terms of defending the faith as well, It's helpful
to know history. For example, you'll you'll hear
people who don't, who don't knowanything about anything, they'll
say, well, you know the deity ofJesus.
That was something that nobody thought of until the Council of
Nicaea in 325 where they decidedwhich books would be in the
(08:40):
Bible and, and Luke only made itin by one vote.
Well, that's totally false. If you know anything about
history. The Council of Nicaea had
nothing to do which which with which books were in the Bible.
It did have to do with establishing the deity of
Christ. But I can show you all kinds of
historical documents that show the people already they knew
that Jesus was God before the Council of Nicaea.
(09:01):
Council of Nicaea was just fighting against the Aryans who
were saying that Jesus, there was a time when the sun was not
basically was what Arias said. And so if you know something
about history, you can answer that.
You can answer that objection tothe Christian faith.
If you don't know history, you're, you're going, I don't
know. I just have faith, I guess.
And that's not really the best. We should have faith, but that's
(09:21):
not an answer. And I would have, I there's
certain subjects I think I wouldhave enjoyed a lot more, or at
least would have, I would have found them important if I'd been
presented them from a Christian perspective.
I already had an interest in math and science because that's
something God just kind of put in me.
But that those are subjects thata lot of students don't like
because they don't see how relevant they are.
(09:42):
And they're not relevant if we're just chemical accidents.
But if science is the study of the way God normally upholds his
creation, wow, that's different.If mathematics is the study of
the way God thinks about numbers, wow, that's different.
And so that, that's why it's important to start these
subjects from a Christian worldview and, and to give
people an idea of how you might go about that.
(10:04):
There's a couple of books that I've written, the book that I
have written on fractals would be a good way to go in terms of
mathematics to show people how to think about mathematics.
And then my book on logic would be a good way to show, because
it's not just about the mechanics of logic.
It's showing you that logic is the way God thinks and it, and
it therefore is the way we're supposed to think.
It's a reflection of God's thinking.
(10:25):
And, and I try to demonstrate that and show I, I can't make
anybody be saved, but I can showyou that unless you're a
Christian, you have no basis forbelieving in laws of logic.
I think it's very powerful. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Talk really quickly about astronomy and we've talked about
science and obviously science helps point us to our creator.
But you are a master of astronomy.
(10:47):
So if you were to talk to maybe a, a, a homeschool student,
maybe middle school, high school, who's like, you know,
astronomy and stars plant, what about, you know, who even cares
about that stuff? What would you say to them?
I said, well, you know, the Bible says the heavens declare
the glory of God, the skies for playing the work of his hands.
And so when you look out into the universe, you're seeing the
(11:07):
handiwork of God. And, and I would argue all
creation declares God's glory. But it's interesting the Bible
singles out the heavens as declaring his glory, perhaps in
a special way. The size, the majesty of the
universe reflect God's power. When you, when you think of
these stars and how big they are, our sun, which you can
block with, you know, your thumbheld at arm's length because
(11:28):
it's 93,000,000 miles away. It's 100 times the diameter of
the earth and it's producing more power by nuclear fusion in
the core. It's producing more power in one
second than a, you know, like a billion cities on earth could
use in a year. It's, it's astonishing.
And that gives you a little taste of the power of God.
So it's astronomy is a as a worthy subject to study, but be
(11:48):
careful because a lot of what you read in an astronomy
textbook, some of it's good science and some of it is
speculation about the past basedon a secular, non biblical false
worldview. And you got to be careful to
this to distinguish those. And so I, I wrote the book
Taking back Astronomy to help people kind of discern truth
from fiction in the realm of astronomy.
(12:09):
My goal was to take back astronomy from the secularists
and give it back to the Lord to whom it belongs, because the
universe does declare God's glory and and it confirms
biblical creation. There are certain processes in
space that if you just run them out to their natural conclusion,
they can't last billions of years.
And so certain things in our solar system, secularists claim
(12:29):
that our solar system's 4.5 billion years old and they need
it to be that old for evolution to sound plausible.
So they'll never give that up, no matter how much evidence
there is to the contrary, because they need it.
They need it to have evolution. And you need evolution if you're
going to say God didn't create, OK.
But once you once you realize evolution's false, you can look
at the evidence and say, wait a minute, there's no way the solar
(12:50):
system's billions of years old. The rate at which magnetic
fields decay on the planets is consistent with a time scale of
a few thousand years. It was a few thousand years ago
that God created. Or the rate at which comets
disintegrate. And secularists say, well,
there's an orc cloud that makes new ones, but there's really not
evidence for that, you know, So just the rate at what they
disintegrate or the rate at which heat dissipates from the
(13:11):
innards of the outer planets like Jupiter, It's not
consistent with billions of years.
And so there's a lot of neat stuff you can learn in astronomy
that you can use in conversations to challenge your
secular friend and say what you know, you believe in billions of
years. How do you explain the internal
heat of Jupiter or the decay of Earth's magnetic field and
things like that? You just just to get him
thinking, yeah, not as a proof of the Bible, but to get him
(13:34):
thinking and as a conversation starter and is something that I
think intrinsically reflects God's glory.
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We are back with Doctor Jason Lyle.
We mentioned, I think it was last week at the very beginning
of our episode last week, that one of the books you've authored
is called Introduction to Logic.And I am working through this
(15:01):
with my daughter Laci right now.And so I want to talk a little
bit about logic. And I think it's such an
important topic as Christian homeschoolers to discuss with
our kids because, you know, I grew up in a world where you
just, you were taught something and you didn't have to think
through it or about it. You just, it is what it is.
Whatever you were taught is truth.
And we didn't have to really question anything.
(15:23):
And so, so let's first, as we talk about logic, maybe talk
through what logic is not, and then talk about what logic is
and how we can recognize different fallacies.
OK, logic is not merely intuition that which we sort of
feel would be right or that thatwhich is natural to our
(15:44):
expectations, because there are some things that are true that
are very counter intuitive that you'd say that can't be that
just doesn't rub me the right way, but it's true and we can
demonstrate that it's true. So logic is not about intuition.
Logic is not rhetoric. Rhetoric is more about
persuading people. And you can you you can use
(16:04):
logic in rhetoric. You can use logic to persuade
people, but you can also use errors, things that are not
logical, to persuade people. That's what logical fallacies
are there errors and reasoning that people tend to find
persuasive. And you so if, if, if you know
something about rhetoric, you can fool people into believing
something that's not true using rhetoric.
That's not logic. That's not logic.
(16:25):
Logic is not about specific facts of nature.
Those are. There are other sciences that
deal with those. It's not about the mass of the
star or about the the composition of a fossil or
things like that. It's not about specific truth
claims in nature. It's not about those.
What it is is about correct reasoning.
(16:48):
Logic is about how you draw conclusions from certain other
what we call premises. How you draw a conclusion from a
premise or multiple premises. It's about the chain of
reasoning rather than about the specific facts that go into that
chain. Those can be supplied by other
sciences. And so logic is really about how
to use your mind rightly. And I find it very interesting
(17:11):
because education is supposed tobe about how to use your mind
rightly. What is the one subject that is
not taught in just about any public school?
Logic. How to use your mind rightly.
Isn't that fascinating? Secular schools, for the most
part, secular schools teach you what to think.
They do not teach you how to think.
And that's very deliberate. And that's something where the
(17:33):
homeschool movement, I think is,has really been blessed.
Homeschoolers jump on logic and they love it.
And that's great. I love to see that.
I love it when a homeschool parent says we use your book to
teach our kids logic. I'm like, that's great because
they're learning how to think properly and that means they're
not going to be fooled by the rhetoric of the world.
And one of the things that I establish in that in that
(17:53):
textbook is that logic is not just correct reasoning.
It's thinking like God. And how can that be?
Because all God's thinking is correct.
You learn to think like God. Your reasoning will be right.
Now we can't think exactly like God.
He's in finite, but we. We're made in the image of God.
We're. Made in the image of God,
exactly so. So we have a limited ability to
think in a way that's after his character conform to the image
(18:16):
of his Son. And logic is a great way to do
that. And it's something that is only
consistent with a Christian worldview.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you talk about, you
know, obviously secular schools typically don't teach logic and
part of that reason, and I don'tthink that they could clarify
this, but you you state that theexistence of logic is a
confirmation of Christianity. And so that right there explains
(18:39):
why they would not teach logic. Can you explain that a little
bit further? Yeah, so, so when we talk about
logic, there are certain laws oflogic, certain rules of correct
reasoning, like the law of non contradiction.
Law of non contradiction says you can't have A and not A at
the same time. In the same sense, 22
contradictory statements cannot both be true.
One will be true, the other willbe false.
(19:01):
That's the law of non contradiction.
Now, if you think about that, OK, but what is that law?
Is it something you can stub your foot on?
Well, no, it's a law. You can't stub your foot on a
law, right? It's not something you can
touch. It's not something you can see.
Now I can write down the law of non contradiction on paper and
well, there I'm seeing it. Why?
I'm seeing a representation, a formulation of that law.
The law itself is abstract. It exists in the mind.
(19:26):
And all the other laws of logic are as well.
They exist in the mind, the law of the excluded middle, the law
of identity, all these even morespecific rules of logic like
modus ponens and modus toll lens.
There's wonderful Latin names for all these things.
These are rules of correct reasoning.
Now, OK, but where do those rules come from?
Are they just something that human beings invented?
(19:47):
Some people would say that they'd say human beings invented
logic. Really.
Well, if we invented it, then wecould have invented it
differently, right? I mean, and different cultures
could have different laws of logic, just like, you know,
civil laws are like civil laws are something we create.
And so the speed limit in Colorado, I think it's 75 in
Colorado and you go to Ohio, it's 65.
(20:08):
I forget what it is, but different civil laws are
different in different locations.
If laws of logic were like that,then Australia might not have a
law of non contradiction. They say, welcome to Australia
here you must contradict yourself.
We have a law of contradiction here.
You have to contradict yourself.Contradictory statements are
both true. Well, that wouldn't work, right?
And we all know that laws of logic are not conventional, and
(20:29):
therefore they're not something that human beings invented.
That's not going to work, right?And somebody says, well, they we
use them because they work. Yeah, but that doesn't justify
their existence. Why do they exist?
Why do they have the properties that they have?
For example, laws of logic are invariant.
That means they don't change with time.
And we all know that, right? We all know what you have the
law of non contradiction. It's not something that works
(20:51):
just on Wednesdays, but it doesn't work on Fridays, right?
That would be ridiculous. And it works everywhere we
assume. How do you know that?
How do you know that the law of non contradiction works on the
moon? And it's not like you can't say,
well, I've been there and I've checked you haven't.
I mean, there have only been a few people that have been to the
moon and even they were expecting that the law of non
contradiction would work there. How did they know that?
(21:11):
See, I as a Christian can answerthat.
I can say laws of logic exist because they reflect God's mind.
They're not human creations. They're they reflect the
thinking of God. They stem from his character.
And that's why they don't changewith time because God doesn't.
The Bible says I the Lord do notchange.
Therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God does not change with time because he's beyond time.
He made time and and they work everywhere.
(21:34):
Why? Because God is omnipresent.
His power is immediately available everywhere.
So you see, I as a Christian canmake sense of the existence of
laws, of logic. They reflect God's thinking.
I can make sense of their properties.
The fact that they don't change with time, that they work
everywhere, That's because it that reflects God's mind as
well. I can even explain how I know
about them. How how can because because the
(21:55):
critic says, were you saying logic reflects how God thinks?
How do you know how God thinks? I've read his book, he's a best
seller. You should try it.
God has revealed some of his thoughts to me in his word, and
of course I'm made in God's image too, so I have access to
some of his thoughts that way aswell.
But see, I as a Christian can make sense of that.
No non Christian can make sense of the existence of laws of
(22:16):
logic and their properties. And I have yet to have anyone
challenge me on that and say no.I can.
I as I as an atheist can accountfor laws of logic.
No, you can't. You use them.
That's because you're stealing from the Christian worldview
because you do know in your heart of hearts, the biblical
God, you just suppress that truth and unrighteousness.
And so one of the things that I elaborate, and that was that was
kind of quick, that was a quick overview.
(22:36):
But in the book I elaborate on that and I show you how only the
Christian worldview can make sense of laws of logic and their
properties and the fact that we can know about them, the fact
that they apply to the physical universe.
Why is it conceptual laws apply to the physical universe?
Because God is sovereign over both is the biblical answer to
that. The book will show you how only
the Christian world, you can make sense of that.
(22:57):
So my goal is not just for students to know something about
the mechanics of logic, but for them to understand why it
exists. And it's because of the biblical
God, and there's no other explanation.
Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
And it all starts with God's Word.
But then let me ask this next question because I know that you
tackle this quite a lot in the book.
Is recognizing fallacies the ability to do that?
(23:20):
How do we teach our kids to recognize fallacies and in
ourselves? I shouldn't even say our kids.
I mean, I feel like I'm still learning how to do that myself
in so many ways. Yes, yeah, half the book is on
spotting fallacy. So I think that's very
important. Very important.
You know, a good doctor not onlyknows the proper functioning of
the body, he also knows common ways that it can malfunction,
(23:40):
right. And so and, and, and the same is
true of logic. It's, it's not only, it's not
only important to know the proper way to think about
things, but common improper waysof thinking about things so that
you won't be fooled by them. And so half the book is
recognizing what we call informal logical fallacies.
And, and I think that's important.
And I try to do it in a way that's really fun, in a way
(24:01):
that's really practical, becausewhat I do is I show you these
common fallacies that I have encountered in, in my experience
as a defender of the Christian faith.
And so people will, for example,people will say we know
Darwinian evolution, we know that's true.
We know evolution is true because bacteria have evolved
resistance to antibiotics. That's a fallacy.
(24:24):
That's the fallacy of equivocation.
That's where you use a single word in two different ways in
the middle of an argument. Evolution can mean Darwinian
evolution, which I would reject,or it can just mean change
within a kind, which I would embrace.
That's biblical. Things change, and so yes,
bacteria can evolve resistance to antibiotics, but that doesn't
prove Darwinian evolution. So they'd equivocated on that
(24:45):
term. That's a fallacy.
I think every student should be able to recognize that fallacy.
There's the fallacy of reification.
That's where you try to get around a problem or you try to
make a point by using a poetic device whereby you ascribe
personal concrete characteristics to an
abstraction. For example, some people will
say, you know, the Bible says this, but science says the
(25:07):
world's millions of years old. That is a reification fallacy
because science doesn't say anything, right?
Scientists say things, but science is a method.
It doesn't talk. And you say, well, what's so
wrong with using a poetic devicelike that?
Well, the problem is it makes science into a sort of a person
that has opinions on things whenit really doesn't.
Scientists have opinions on things and if, and you could say
(25:31):
most scientists say the Earth's millions of years old, but
that's not as powerful because ascientist is a person and you
can be wrong. And you'd have to admit there
are other scientists like myselfwho say the Earth's thousands of
years old and so it's not as powerful.
So if you know something about these logical fallacies, you
will be less likely to be fooledby them, Not just in apologetic
situations, but they they pop upeverywhere.
(25:51):
They pop up in politics all the time.
I hear politicians making all kinds of errors and reasoning
and people are fooled by them because they don't know logic.
Or maybe a television commercial.
And there's nothing wrong with advertising your product, but
sometimes they'll do it in ways that, that promote a fallacy.
And, and I'm like, I see what you're doing there.
I'm not buying that. So if, if you're, if you know
(26:12):
these errors and reasoning, you will be less likely to be fooled
by them and you'll be less likely to use them yourself.
Because although these, these errors can persuade people, I, I
would say as a Christian, it's unethical to use an error in
reasoning intentionally to try and persuade somebody of
something, even if what you're trying to persuade them of is
true. We have to be ethical in the way
that we defend the Christian faith.
(26:33):
Wow, this has been such an encouraging conversation.
Doctor Jason Lyle, we are out oftime, but really quickly tell
our audience one more time just a little bit about the Biblical
Science Institute, what you do there, and what you offer.
I know you've got lots and lots of resources for homeschool
families that we can use. So at the Biblical Science
Institute, what we do is we defend the Christian faith from
the very first verse. We emphasize Genesis.
(26:55):
It's literal history. We emphasize science,
understanding science and how science confirms biblical
creation. We can't go back in time and,
and, and recreate creation, but we can see that what we see in
the world today is consistent with what the Bible teaches
about creation and about how Godupholds his creation.
That's what we're really all about defending the Bible.
And we, you know, we touch on other issues too, like how do we
(27:16):
get the Bible? Has it been transmitted
accurately and so on. We have articles on that and,
and I, we have DVDs on it. I go around speaking at
primarily the United States. Occasionally I'll go a little
bit outside, but usually mainly in the United States.
But through the Internet we reached the entire world and the
the website itselfbiblicalscienceinstitute.com,
it's a free web website, lots ofgreat articles on there, a web
(27:38):
store. We can get our books and DVDs as
well. OK, we will link those in the
show notes. Doctor Lyle, thank you so much
for being with us this week. It has been such a joy to talk
with you these last couple of weeks.
Thank you for your ministry and for all that you're doing.
You are truly a blessing and I am grateful to have spent this
time with you on the SchoolhouseRock podcast.
We appreciate what you do. Well, thank you.
Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem.
(27:58):
All right, We love you guys. Have a great rest of your day.
Stay tuned at the very end to hear what's coming up next on
the podcast. And if you have not left a
review for the Schoolhouse Rock podcast, we would love it if you
would do that. Just whatever podcast app you're
listening through, go on there, leave a review, let people know
why they should listen as well and share it with your friends.
Have a great rest of your day. We'll see you back here next
week. Bye.
(28:22):
You're listening to the biblical.
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially. When we see what's happening in
our culture. Today, but the answers are found
(28:43):
within the Word of God, so that's where we want to look.
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth, we.Remain culture proof.
There are many kinds of habits that we as mothers engage in.
I think that's where it starts. Like we can talk all day about
training our children in habits,but if we don't have good
habits, it's going to just be hypocrisy and actually lead.
(29:04):
I think often those kinds of behaviors like a a parent
behaving one way and telling their child to act another way
is often what leads to bitterness and rebellion.
There are all these habits that coalesce to make a happy and
peaceful home school and some ofthem are habits that we're
teaching our kids, but they're all habits that we should be
modeling as well. There's so much hope for us as
(29:26):
mom because when I was a teenager, I didn't have good
habits. Like I didn't have a lot of
self-control over my time. Some of this has has developed
into adulthood for me. And so, you know, wherever you
are as a mom in that process, like just start with one thing.
Just start with reading your Bible everyday.
Just start with reading the Bible to your children every
day. Just start with one thing.
(29:47):
And when you when you have that going well, then you add
something else.
Logic is not just correct reasoning, it's thinking like
God. And how can that be?
Because all God's thinking is correct, so we have a limited
ability to think in a way that'safter his character.
It's something that is only consistent with a Christian
worldview. Hey everyone, this is Yvette
Hampton. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse
Rock podcast. I am back this week with Doctor
(00:20):
Jason Lyle and I'm so excited tohave him back with me.
If you missed last week's episode with him, go back and
listen to that. We, we, we talked about science
and about Genesis and about God's word and how we can point
our kids to Jesus using the wordof God.
Of course, I mean, we talk aboutthat on the podcast all the
time, but we talked about the importance of God's word and
understanding it and how we can understand it better.
(00:43):
And so, so go back and listen tothat.
If you missed it. We are going to get back into
our conversation today. But before we do, I want to say
thank you to our sponsor, Bjupress Homeschool.
If you guys are looking for strong Christian worldview
curriculum, go to bjupresshomeschool.com.
They're dedicated to providing homeschool families with
academically strong curriculum that's rooted in a biblical
(01:03):
worldview. And they offer complete
curriculum from preschool through 12th grade, which is
available in both traditional textbooks and video courses.
And we've used both. We've used both their textbook
courses and video courses, and it's been great for our family.
You guys know we love BGU Press Homeschool and we use them as
part of our homeschooling curriculum.
They have lessons that will encourage critical thinking as
(01:25):
well as activities and lessons that support multi sensory
learning and the unique learningstyles of your children.
Check them out at bjupresshomeschool.com.
That's bjupresshomeschool.com. Well, Doctor Lyle, welcome back
to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.I'm so glad to have you back
with me this week. I want to talk about a few more
(01:46):
things where we were talking last week about the importance
of God's Word and respecting God's Word.
And one of the things that you talked about as you were talking
through your education is that you were raised up in with a
secular education. You were raised up in public
school, and so I want to talk about how you disentangled
yourself, to use a, a, a popularword today, right?
(02:09):
How did you disentangle yourself?
You don't want to disentangle yourself from the Christian
faith as some are doing, but howdid you disentangle yourself
from the secular education that you were brought up with?
I first of all, I think it was very helpful.
Kudos to my parents who are Christians and also brought me
to church and they taught me theBible.
So that, that certainly helped. That being said, I, I, I
(02:32):
wouldn't recommend that combination of, of, you know,
Christianity on Sunday, but then9 through 5 on every other day
of the week, You know, 14,000 hours of secular education.
Not a good system. Because I, when I graduated from
high school, I was a Christian. I genuinely believed in Jesus.
But I have to tell you, my worldview was more or less
secular. It was kind of like a secular
(02:54):
Sunday with a Christian charity on top, really.
And that's not a good, that's not a good way to do it.
I've spent the last several decades of my life trying to
undo that, trying to think through Christian just as one
example, just because I the way I was taught science in school,
even though I never embraced evolution or anything like that.
Nonetheless, the secular view ofscience is that the universe is
(03:16):
autonomous. It kind of runs on its own and
there are these laws of nature that it obeys.
And then if you believe in God, he intervenes and does a miracle
every now and then. That's not a Christian view of
things. And it took me a while to
realize, wait a minute. The reason there are laws of
nature is because God is constantly upholding his
universe by his power. That's what the Bible teaches
that in Christ, all things are are held together, that he
(03:38):
upholds all things by the word of his power, the expression of
his power. And so the reason they're laws
of nature, they're not an alternative to God's power.
They are God's power. And the reason we can write down
equations and things like that that describe the laws of nature
is because God thinks, yes, mathematically, that's why it
works. And it took me a while to
realize that I was even defending the faith before I'd
(04:00):
it really gelled with me that natural laws are God's power.
Just things like that, that and what helped me to disentangle
that reading God's Word, being in church on Sunday,
fellowshipping with other Christians, and especially
learning from Christian scholarswho were further ahead on the
road than I was. And so there are other, there
are Christian ministries. I was very blessed by our sister
(04:24):
ministry, Answers in Genesis. I actually worked there for a
while and was and was blessed todo that.
They had a very positive influence on me and helping me
to think through some of these issues and realize that that
secular scientists have their presuppositions through which
they interpret the evidence and that they draw some false
conclusions, not because the evidence is bad, but because
their way of thinking about it is fallacious.
(04:46):
And so that really helped me to,to, to disentangle these things.
I was very blessed by the work of Greg Bonson.
He, he, he's with the Lord now, but he was a very brilliant
Christian apologist, pastor, PhDphilosopher, but Christian
philosopher and, and, and quite brilliant.
And he, he did a number of debates and I learned a lot from
(05:07):
him and, and other, other leaders.
So that's what's been helpful tome, studying the Bible, being
around other Christians, lookingfor Christian scholars who are
are farther ahead on the road than I was.
Yeah, talk through some of the subjects because as we are
teaching our kids, you know, we're teaching them science, but
we're also teaching them historyand literature and, you know,
many other things that go along with home education.
(05:30):
And so sometimes we might think of, well, it's OK to teach all
the other things maybe from a secular perspective, as long as
we teach science from a Christian perspective.
Talk about the importance of teaching all subjects from a
Christian worldview. Now the Bible says Proverbs 17,
the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
The fools despise wisdom and instruction.
(05:51):
So knowledge begins with submitting to God and his
standards, his presuppositions, all subjects.
Therefore, if if you're going tolearn truth, they, they need to
begin with God. And if you don't get that, then
first of all, you'll never understand the relevance of that
subject. Again, going through the public
school system, I didn't care at all about history.
(06:12):
I didn't care about literature. I like science because that's
something God just kind of put in me.
But what if I'd been taught those, those subjects
literature, history from a Christian perspective.
See, if you're taught it from a secular perspective, you know,
we're, you know, we just evolvedfrom the slime.
Then what is history? History is just chemical
accidents interacting with otherchemical accidents.
And they're all dead now anyway.Who cares?
(06:33):
What could be more boring than that?
What's literature? Literature is just the written
results of chemical accidents. Who cares about that?
But if you study it from a Christian perspective, history
is God's plan to save people, a group of people for himself.
And you see that borne out throughout history and, and, and
literature. What if, what if I'd been taught
(06:54):
the Bible is literature? And by studying literature, you
can you can better understand Scripture.
And so all these little things that I'd learn in my grammar
literature class, like Synecdoche, when am I going to
use that when studying the Bibleis when you're going to use that
the Bible, you know, synecdoche is when you when you I was
going. To say please explain what that
is. Yeah, yeah.
I don't blame you. Synecdoche is when you represent
(07:15):
the part for the whole and or the whole for the part.
And so it's a, it's an idiomaticuse of speech.
Like for example, when when the Bible says that God hates a
lying tongue, Is it the tongue he hates?
No, it's, it's, it's the person he hates the, the sin of lying,
right? He's using the part to represent
the whole. We use it today when we say Joe
has 8 mouths to feed. Really just mouths.
(07:36):
I thought he had like 8 people he had to.
Well, the mouth is the part mostassociated with food, so it
represents the whole. That's synecdoche.
I learned that in high school, but I didn't care about it
because I didn't see how I was going to use it.
Until you start looking into thescriptures and you say, Oh yeah,
God hates feet that run to mischief.
Oh, but he's using that to represent the person or hands
that shed innocent blood. Well, that's, that's
representing the person that sheds innocent blood.
(07:58):
He's using the part of the person that's most associated
with that action. So by learning these things
about literature, you can betterunderstand Scripture.
Yeah, man, if I hadn't known that I would have been the, the
1st in class in, in my, in my literature class.
And if I'd have learned about the history of the church and
how that, how that relates to towhat we do in church today and
why there are different denominations and so on, man,
(08:20):
that would have been a much moreenriching experience.
And also in terms of defending the faith as well, It's helpful
to know history. For example, you'll you'll hear
people who don't, who don't knowanything about anything, they'll
say, well, you know the deity ofJesus.
That was something that nobody thought of until the Council of
Nicaea in 325 where they decidedwhich books would be in the
(08:40):
Bible and, and Luke only made itin by one vote.
Well, that's totally false. If you know anything about
history. The Council of Nicaea had
nothing to do which which with which books were in the Bible.
It did have to do with establishing the deity of
Christ. But I can show you all kinds of
historical documents that show the people already they knew
that Jesus was God before the Council of Nicaea.
(09:01):
Council of Nicaea was just fighting against the Aryans who
were saying that Jesus, there was a time when the sun was not
basically was what Arias said. And so if you know something
about history, you can answer that.
You can answer that objection tothe Christian faith.
If you don't know history, you're, you're going, I don't
know. I just have faith, I guess.
And that's not really the best. We should have faith, but that's
(09:21):
not an answer. And I would have, I there's
certain subjects I think I wouldhave enjoyed a lot more, or at
least would have, I would have found them important if I'd been
presented them from a Christian perspective.
I already had an interest in math and science because that's
something God just kind of put in me.
But that those are subjects thata lot of students don't like
because they don't see how relevant they are.
(09:42):
And they're not relevant if we're just chemical accidents.
But if science is the study of the way God normally upholds his
creation, wow, that's different.If mathematics is the study of
the way God thinks about numbers, wow, that's different.
And so that, that's why it's important to start these
subjects from a Christian worldview and, and to give
people an idea of how you might go about that.
(10:04):
There's a couple of books that I've written, the book that I
have written on fractals would be a good way to go in terms of
mathematics to show people how to think about mathematics.
And then my book on logic would be a good way to show, because
it's not just about the mechanics of logic.
It's showing you that logic is the way God thinks and it, and
it therefore is the way we're supposed to think.
It's a reflection of God's thinking.
(10:25):
And, and I try to demonstrate that and show I, I can't make
anybody be saved, but I can showyou that unless you're a
Christian, you have no basis forbelieving in laws of logic.
I think it's very powerful. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Talk really quickly about astronomy and we've talked about
science and obviously science helps point us to our creator.
But you are a master of astronomy.
(10:47):
So if you were to talk to maybe a, a, a homeschool student,
maybe middle school, high school, who's like, you know,
astronomy and stars plant, what about, you know, who even cares
about that stuff? What would you say to them?
I said, well, you know, the Bible says the heavens declare
the glory of God, the skies for playing the work of his hands.
And so when you look out into the universe, you're seeing the
(11:07):
handiwork of God. And, and I would argue all
creation declares God's glory. But it's interesting the Bible
singles out the heavens as declaring his glory, perhaps in
a special way. The size, the majesty of the
universe reflect God's power. When you, when you think of
these stars and how big they are, our sun, which you can
block with, you know, your thumbheld at arm's length because
(11:28):
it's 93,000,000 miles away. It's 100 times the diameter of
the earth and it's producing more power by nuclear fusion in
the core. It's producing more power in one
second than a, you know, like a billion cities on earth could
use in a year. It's, it's astonishing.
And that gives you a little taste of the power of God.
So it's astronomy is a as a worthy subject to study, but be
(11:48):
careful because a lot of what you read in an astronomy
textbook, some of it's good science and some of it is
speculation about the past basedon a secular, non biblical false
worldview. And you got to be careful to
this to distinguish those. And so I, I wrote the book
Taking back Astronomy to help people kind of discern truth
from fiction in the realm of astronomy.
(12:09):
My goal was to take back astronomy from the secularists
and give it back to the Lord to whom it belongs, because the
universe does declare God's glory and and it confirms
biblical creation. There are certain processes in
space that if you just run them out to their natural conclusion,
they can't last billions of years.
And so certain things in our solar system, secularists claim
(12:29):
that our solar system's 4.5 billion years old and they need
it to be that old for evolution to sound plausible.
So they'll never give that up, no matter how much evidence
there is to the contrary, because they need it.
They need it to have evolution. And you need evolution if you're
going to say God didn't create, OK.
But once you once you realize evolution's false, you can look
at the evidence and say, wait a minute, there's no way the solar
(12:50):
system's billions of years old. The rate at which magnetic
fields decay on the planets is consistent with a time scale of
a few thousand years. It was a few thousand years ago
that God created. Or the rate at which comets
disintegrate. And secularists say, well,
there's an orc cloud that makes new ones, but there's really not
evidence for that, you know, So just the rate at what they
disintegrate or the rate at which heat dissipates from the
(13:11):
innards of the outer planets like Jupiter, It's not
consistent with billions of years.
And so there's a lot of neat stuff you can learn in astronomy
that you can use in conversations to challenge your
secular friend and say what you know, you believe in billions of
years. How do you explain the internal
heat of Jupiter or the decay of Earth's magnetic field and
things like that? You just just to get him
thinking, yeah, not as a proof of the Bible, but to get him
(13:34):
thinking and as a conversation starter and is something that I
think intrinsically reflects God's glory.
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We are back with Doctor Jason Lyle.
We mentioned, I think it was last week at the very beginning
of our episode last week, that one of the books you've authored
is called Introduction to Logic.And I am working through this
(15:01):
with my daughter Laci right now.And so I want to talk a little
bit about logic. And I think it's such an
important topic as Christian homeschoolers to discuss with
our kids because, you know, I grew up in a world where you
just, you were taught something and you didn't have to think
through it or about it. You just, it is what it is.
Whatever you were taught is truth.
And we didn't have to really question anything.
(15:23):
And so, so let's first, as we talk about logic, maybe talk
through what logic is not, and then talk about what logic is
and how we can recognize different fallacies.
OK, logic is not merely intuition that which we sort of
feel would be right or that thatwhich is natural to our
(15:44):
expectations, because there are some things that are true that
are very counter intuitive that you'd say that can't be that
just doesn't rub me the right way, but it's true and we can
demonstrate that it's true. So logic is not about intuition.
Logic is not rhetoric. Rhetoric is more about
persuading people. And you can you you can use
(16:04):
logic in rhetoric. You can use logic to persuade
people, but you can also use errors, things that are not
logical, to persuade people. That's what logical fallacies
are there errors and reasoning that people tend to find
persuasive. And you so if, if, if you know
something about rhetoric, you can fool people into believing
something that's not true using rhetoric.
That's not logic. That's not logic.
(16:25):
Logic is not about specific facts of nature.
Those are. There are other sciences that
deal with those. It's not about the mass of the
star or about the the composition of a fossil or
things like that. It's not about specific truth
claims in nature. It's not about those.
What it is is about correct reasoning.
(16:48):
Logic is about how you draw conclusions from certain other
what we call premises. How you draw a conclusion from a
premise or multiple premises. It's about the chain of
reasoning rather than about the specific facts that go into that
chain. Those can be supplied by other
sciences. And so logic is really about how
to use your mind rightly. And I find it very interesting
(17:11):
because education is supposed tobe about how to use your mind
rightly. What is the one subject that is
not taught in just about any public school?
Logic. How to use your mind rightly.
Isn't that fascinating? Secular schools, for the most
part, secular schools teach you what to think.
They do not teach you how to think.
And that's very deliberate. And that's something where the
(17:33):
homeschool movement, I think is,has really been blessed.
Homeschoolers jump on logic and they love it.
And that's great. I love to see that.
I love it when a homeschool parent says we use your book to
teach our kids logic. I'm like, that's great because
they're learning how to think properly and that means they're
not going to be fooled by the rhetoric of the world.
And one of the things that I establish in that in that
(17:53):
textbook is that logic is not just correct reasoning.
It's thinking like God. And how can that be?
Because all God's thinking is correct.
You learn to think like God. Your reasoning will be right.
Now we can't think exactly like God.
He's in finite, but we. We're made in the image of God.
We're. Made in the image of God,
exactly so. So we have a limited ability to
think in a way that's after his character conform to the image
(18:16):
of his Son. And logic is a great way to do
that. And it's something that is only
consistent with a Christian worldview.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you talk about, you
know, obviously secular schools typically don't teach logic and
part of that reason, and I don'tthink that they could clarify
this, but you you state that theexistence of logic is a
confirmation of Christianity. And so that right there explains
(18:39):
why they would not teach logic. Can you explain that a little
bit further? Yeah, so, so when we talk about
logic, there are certain laws oflogic, certain rules of correct
reasoning, like the law of non contradiction.
Law of non contradiction says you can't have A and not A at
the same time. In the same sense, 22
contradictory statements cannot both be true.
One will be true, the other willbe false.
(19:01):
That's the law of non contradiction.
Now, if you think about that, OK, but what is that law?
Is it something you can stub your foot on?
Well, no, it's a law. You can't stub your foot on a
law, right? It's not something you can
touch. It's not something you can see.
Now I can write down the law of non contradiction on paper and
well, there I'm seeing it. Why?
I'm seeing a representation, a formulation of that law.
The law itself is abstract. It exists in the mind.
(19:26):
And all the other laws of logic are as well.
They exist in the mind, the law of the excluded middle, the law
of identity, all these even morespecific rules of logic like
modus ponens and modus toll lens.
There's wonderful Latin names for all these things.
These are rules of correct reasoning.
Now, OK, but where do those rules come from?
Are they just something that human beings invented?
(19:47):
Some people would say that they'd say human beings invented
logic. Really.
Well, if we invented it, then wecould have invented it
differently, right? I mean, and different cultures
could have different laws of logic, just like, you know,
civil laws are like civil laws are something we create.
And so the speed limit in Colorado, I think it's 75 in
Colorado and you go to Ohio, it's 65.
(20:08):
I forget what it is, but different civil laws are
different in different locations.
If laws of logic were like that,then Australia might not have a
law of non contradiction. They say, welcome to Australia
here you must contradict yourself.
We have a law of contradiction here.
You have to contradict yourself.Contradictory statements are
both true. Well, that wouldn't work, right?
And we all know that laws of logic are not conventional, and
(20:29):
therefore they're not something that human beings invented.
That's not going to work, right?And somebody says, well, they we
use them because they work. Yeah, but that doesn't justify
their existence. Why do they exist?
Why do they have the properties that they have?
For example, laws of logic are invariant.
That means they don't change with time.
And we all know that, right? We all know what you have the
law of non contradiction. It's not something that works
(20:51):
just on Wednesdays, but it doesn't work on Fridays, right?
That would be ridiculous. And it works everywhere we
assume. How do you know that?
How do you know that the law of non contradiction works on the
moon? And it's not like you can't say,
well, I've been there and I've checked you haven't.
I mean, there have only been a few people that have been to the
moon and even they were expecting that the law of non
contradiction would work there. How did they know that?
(21:11):
See, I as a Christian can answerthat.
I can say laws of logic exist because they reflect God's mind.
They're not human creations. They're they reflect the
thinking of God. They stem from his character.
And that's why they don't changewith time because God doesn't.
The Bible says I the Lord do notchange.
Therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God does not change with time because he's beyond time.
He made time and and they work everywhere.
(21:34):
Why? Because God is omnipresent.
His power is immediately available everywhere.
So you see, I as a Christian canmake sense of the existence of
laws, of logic. They reflect God's thinking.
I can make sense of their properties.
The fact that they don't change with time, that they work
everywhere, That's because it that reflects God's mind as
well. I can even explain how I know
about them. How how can because because the
(21:55):
critic says, were you saying logic reflects how God thinks?
How do you know how God thinks? I've read his book, he's a best
seller. You should try it.
God has revealed some of his thoughts to me in his word, and
of course I'm made in God's image too, so I have access to
some of his thoughts that way aswell.
But see, I as a Christian can make sense of that.
No non Christian can make sense of the existence of laws of
(22:16):
logic and their properties. And I have yet to have anyone
challenge me on that and say no.I can.
I as I as an atheist can accountfor laws of logic.
No, you can't. You use them.
That's because you're stealing from the Christian worldview
because you do know in your heart of hearts, the biblical
God, you just suppress that truth and unrighteousness.
And so one of the things that I elaborate, and that was that was
kind of quick, that was a quick overview.
(22:36):
But in the book I elaborate on that and I show you how only the
Christian worldview can make sense of laws of logic and their
properties and the fact that we can know about them, the fact
that they apply to the physical universe.
Why is it conceptual laws apply to the physical universe?
Because God is sovereign over both is the biblical answer to
that. The book will show you how only
the Christian world, you can make sense of that.
(22:57):
So my goal is not just for students to know something about
the mechanics of logic, but for them to understand why it
exists. And it's because of the biblical
God, and there's no other explanation.
Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
And it all starts with God's Word.
But then let me ask this next question because I know that you
tackle this quite a lot in the book.
Is recognizing fallacies the ability to do that?
(23:20):
How do we teach our kids to recognize fallacies and in
ourselves? I shouldn't even say our kids.
I mean, I feel like I'm still learning how to do that myself
in so many ways. Yes, yeah, half the book is on
spotting fallacy. So I think that's very
important. Very important.
You know, a good doctor not onlyknows the proper functioning of
the body, he also knows common ways that it can malfunction,
(23:40):
right. And so and, and, and the same is
true of logic. It's, it's not only, it's not
only important to know the proper way to think about
things, but common improper waysof thinking about things so that
you won't be fooled by them. And so half the book is
recognizing what we call informal logical fallacies.
And, and I think that's important.
And I try to do it in a way that's really fun, in a way
(24:01):
that's really practical, becausewhat I do is I show you these
common fallacies that I have encountered in, in my experience
as a defender of the Christian faith.
And so people will, for example,people will say we know
Darwinian evolution, we know that's true.
We know evolution is true because bacteria have evolved
resistance to antibiotics. That's a fallacy.
(24:24):
That's the fallacy of equivocation.
That's where you use a single word in two different ways in
the middle of an argument. Evolution can mean Darwinian
evolution, which I would reject,or it can just mean change
within a kind, which I would embrace.
That's biblical. Things change, and so yes,
bacteria can evolve resistance to antibiotics, but that doesn't
prove Darwinian evolution. So they'd equivocated on that
(24:45):
term. That's a fallacy.
I think every student should be able to recognize that fallacy.
There's the fallacy of reification.
That's where you try to get around a problem or you try to
make a point by using a poetic device whereby you ascribe
personal concrete characteristics to an
abstraction. For example, some people will
say, you know, the Bible says this, but science says the
(25:07):
world's millions of years old. That is a reification fallacy
because science doesn't say anything, right?
Scientists say things, but science is a method.
It doesn't talk. And you say, well, what's so
wrong with using a poetic devicelike that?
Well, the problem is it makes science into a sort of a person
that has opinions on things whenit really doesn't.
Scientists have opinions on things and if, and you could say
(25:31):
most scientists say the Earth's millions of years old, but
that's not as powerful because ascientist is a person and you
can be wrong. And you'd have to admit there
are other scientists like myselfwho say the Earth's thousands of
years old and so it's not as powerful.
So if you know something about these logical fallacies, you
will be less likely to be fooledby them, Not just in apologetic
situations, but they they pop upeverywhere.
(25:51):
They pop up in politics all the time.
I hear politicians making all kinds of errors and reasoning
and people are fooled by them because they don't know logic.
Or maybe a television commercial.
And there's nothing wrong with advertising your product, but
sometimes they'll do it in ways that, that promote a fallacy.
And, and I'm like, I see what you're doing there.
I'm not buying that. So if, if you're, if you know
(26:12):
these errors and reasoning, you will be less likely to be fooled
by them and you'll be less likely to use them yourself.
Because although these, these errors can persuade people, I, I
would say as a Christian, it's unethical to use an error in
reasoning intentionally to try and persuade somebody of
something, even if what you're trying to persuade them of is
true. We have to be ethical in the way
that we defend the Christian faith.
(26:33):
Wow, this has been such an encouraging conversation.
Doctor Jason Lyle, we are out oftime, but really quickly tell
our audience one more time just a little bit about the Biblical
Science Institute, what you do there, and what you offer.
I know you've got lots and lots of resources for homeschool
families that we can use. So at the Biblical Science
Institute, what we do is we defend the Christian faith from
the very first verse. We emphasize Genesis.
(26:55):
It's literal history. We emphasize science,
understanding science and how science confirms biblical
creation. We can't go back in time and,
and, and recreate creation, but we can see that what we see in
the world today is consistent with what the Bible teaches
about creation and about how Godupholds his creation.
That's what we're really all about defending the Bible.
And we, you know, we touch on other issues too, like how do we
(27:16):
get the Bible? Has it been transmitted
accurately and so on. We have articles on that and,
and I, we have DVDs on it. I go around speaking at
primarily the United States. Occasionally I'll go a little
bit outside, but usually mainly in the United States.
But through the Internet we reached the entire world and the
the website itselfbiblicalscienceinstitute.com,
it's a free web website, lots ofgreat articles on there, a web
(27:38):
store. We can get our books and DVDs as
well. OK, we will link those in the
show notes. Doctor Lyle, thank you so much
for being with us this week. It has been such a joy to talk
with you these last couple of weeks.
Thank you for your ministry and for all that you're doing.
You are truly a blessing and I am grateful to have spent this
time with you on the SchoolhouseRock podcast.
We appreciate what you do. Well, thank you.
Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem.
(27:58):
All right, We love you guys. Have a great rest of your day.
Stay tuned at the very end to hear what's coming up next on
the podcast. And if you have not left a
review for the Schoolhouse Rock podcast, we would love it if you
would do that. Just whatever podcast app you're
listening through, go on there, leave a review, let people know
why they should listen as well and share it with your friends.
Have a great rest of your day. We'll see you back here next
week. Bye.
(28:22):
You're listening to the biblical.
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially. When we see what's happening in
our culture. Today, but the answers are found
(28:43):
within the Word of God, so that's where we want to look.
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth, we.Remain culture proof.
There are many kinds of habits that we as mothers engage in.
I think that's where it starts. Like we can talk all day about
training our children in habits,but if we don't have good
habits, it's going to just be hypocrisy and actually lead.
(29:04):
I think often those kinds of behaviors like a a parent
behaving one way and telling their child to act another way
is often what leads to bitterness and rebellion.
There are all these habits that coalesce to make a happy and
peaceful home school and some ofthem are habits that we're
teaching our kids, but they're all habits that we should be
modeling as well. There's so much hope for us as
(29:26):
mom because when I was a teenager, I didn't have good
habits. Like I didn't have a lot of
self-control over my time. Some of this has has developed
into adulthood for me. And so, you know, wherever you
are as a mom in that process, like just start with one thing.
Just start with reading your Bible everyday.
Just start with reading the Bible to your children every
day. Just start with one thing.
(29:47):
And when you when you have that going well, then you add
something else.
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