Preserving Homeschool Freedom: The Fight for Educational Independence – Audra Talley - Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You can imagine being a homeschool mom quietly homeschooling over your,
your kitchen table and hear, hear vehicles coming up your road
and you know, do you get a chance to say goodbye? Do you.
How long will it be before you see your kids again? These. What kind of
foster home are they going into that would be. I mean, exactly.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. I'm so

(00:23):
glad you're back with me this week. We are back with my dear
friend Audra Talley. And last week, if you did not listen, you need
to go listen because we did a little trip through history back to the 80s
as Audra was homeschooled back then and just kind of got a feel for what
it was like. Her parents are my homeschool heroes and although I've
never met them, I see the fruits of their labor every day as I get

(00:44):
to hang out with my friend Audra and I have learned so much about the
way that they educated their child and it's really inspired me.
But before we get back to our conversation, I need to
thank our first sponsor and it's Apologia. We absolutely love
Apologia. I use it with my kids. It's been our absolute
favorite. So if you're looking for a trusted homeschool resource to support your

(01:06):
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(01:49):
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learners and teaching truth. Okay, Audra, welcome back. I'm so glad
we're back together again this week. I loved our conversation, just
about what your homeschool kind of looked like growing up, really more than that,
just how your parents taught. And if you didn't hear that episode,

(02:12):
you need to go back and you need to find the part where Audra talked
about her dad and how he talked about how important it is to have a
marriage between real life and our academics, real life
and education, because that's what education is is. It is real life. And
if there is a disconnect, then there's really no purpose. It's kind of pointless,
right? Yeah. We have to be able to take what we know and what we've

(02:32):
learned in that kind of academic setting and use it in real
life. Otherwise it doesn't have value outside of
that ability to contextualize and use those
sources and information. Right. Okay. So, Audra,
a little bit more about you that we didn't divulge last week, but you
are, I would consider an expert on not

(02:55):
only all things homeschool because you were homeschooled and you do
homeschool, but you have your head wrapped around. And I, I
want you to share a little bit about, bit about homeschooling history just when it
comes to laws and, and the legality of it, because you lived
some of those early pioneer years, you had experiences with your parents
when here in our state, Audra and I live in Idaho. It was actually

(03:17):
illegal to homeschool in Idaho. And so I want you to dive
in to that story a little bit about your parents challenges with
that, what that was like, what the landscape of homeschooling
was like. Did you come from the era where you were like, shutting blinds and
that sort of thing? And then we're going to kind of fast forward to
what it's like today because you are, you are kind of known

(03:39):
as the poster child for homeschool freedom for, you know,
keep maintaining and keeping our homeschool freedom, privately funded
independent homeschooling. And without a doubt, I believe that's probably
due to the threats that you saw as a child and that, you know, that
our freedom is, is never really secure unless we stand for it. So take us
back to the 80s in your state and, and what was the

(04:01):
landscape of homeschooling then? Well, in
Idaho, homeschooling was something of a contentious
thing. In the 80s you could homeschool, but
the statute was such that the supervision of
homeschoolers fell to the superintendent of
schools for that particular school district. Now, where I

(04:23):
grew up, I don't think our superintendent
cared. I mean, it was pretty laid back, pretty quiet. We were
also pretty, well, very rural. And
so you didn't really have anybody to hide from because in a
town of 450 people, everybody's too busy doing their own thing
to kind of be snooping into their neighbor's business. So it was, it was kind

(04:45):
of a common thing for us, but it wasn't common
everywhere in Idaho. And that level of just kind of acceptance
of homeschooling was not common everywhere in Idaho. And
one of the most pivotal events in Idaho homeschool history
happened in the early 80s when a district
superintendent for a school district down here in south southern

(05:07):
Idaho decided he did not like how a
homeschool family in his school district was homeschooling their kids. And
because the statute kind of gave him supervisory authority over them, he,
he wielded that kind of with an iron rod and
really wanted to treat their home school setting
as if it were a public school. So he was

(05:30):
very much. He wanted, you know, them to operate during normal school
hours. He wanted them to, to have
a fire escape plan. He wanted to know what curriculum they
were using. He wanted them to, you know, what their educational
background was. And at some point, the
parents kept trying to provide him the information, provide him everything he kept

(05:52):
asking for. And he, eventually they just couldn't meet all the
requirements. And it came to a head
when he put his foot down and said, you're sending your kids to public school
or you're not schooling. And the parents said, we can't because we feel like God
has called us to homeschool our kids, kids. And he
sent the sheriff out to their homes and

(06:13):
arrested the parents and put their children in foster
care. Wow. And it, it just,
if you ever have an opportunity just to hear that story, I, I don't
know if you're, if you can imagine being a homeschool
mom quietly homeschooling over your, your kitchen table and hear,
hear vehicles coming up your road and you know, do you get a chance

(06:36):
to say goodbye? Do you. How long will it be before you see your kids
again? These, what kind of foster home are they going into? That would
be exactly terrifying. And they had infants, nursing
infants in the family at that time. And the whole family, all three families were
separated from their kids and their parents served jail
sentences for this situation. And

(06:59):
unfortunately, and fortunately to me, this is a testimony
of how God uses something that was meant for evil and turns it to
good. But in the midst of this, it really
brought the homeschool question, so to speak, that had kind of
been being done behind closed window doors and closed blinds
and, you know, in rural mountain communities, whether or not this was a good

(07:21):
thing. And there was actually at that time a move in the Idaho
state legislature to outlaw homeschooling outright.
And my parents, even in the middle of nowhere, this got media
attention, and they started hearing about it, and
they felt so strongly that
homeschooling was not an optional undertaking.

(07:44):
It was something they were convicted that they had been called to
do, and that it was important for them to engage in
the defense of that ability. And
so they actually traveled the six
hours to southern Idaho from our home to talk with
legislators to testify in committee hearings in support

(08:05):
of homeschooling in an effort to.
To make it more, I guess, a more protected
undertaking than it had been before. And it took about a
decade before Idaho got to a place where
parents were at liberty to educate their children

(08:26):
as they saw fit, as they were led by the Lord
without direct intervention from the state or direct supervision
from school superintendents. So it was. It was a long
fight. Yeah, yeah. It was for the long haul. Right. And I'm sure
many, many grew weary. But what I find interesting is
this whole thing started with just a very

(08:49):
small partnership with the public
schools. Right. It was just a little. Hey, no big deal. We. We have no
problem with homeschooling. Homeschooling's fine. You just need to have your local
superintendent check off that. They're okay with that, right? No big
deal. Not a ton of regulations. And then what
happened? Well, as soon as you had a superintendent

(09:10):
who was bent on taking advantage of that,
he did. And it. It really created a situation
where there was no winning for these parents. There was.
There was no way they could meet the
criteria that that particular school district was requiring of
them. Right. So the regulations were small, like you said. Hey, we just need

(09:32):
to know, you know, one little. And then that you're homeschooling. That's all. Just tell
us you're homeschooling. And then. Then it was okay. We need a fire escape plan,
which is. Plan. Right. Which is crazy. Crazy. They really
were. They were setting up a public school inside the four walls of the
family's home. That's what they were doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And the regulations just came on stronger and stronger. And the other thing

(09:54):
that really struck me, it is that your
parents, just due to the nature of your location, again, you were
small, rural mountain. Not very many people. They didn't feel it. I
mean, people left you alone. You homeschooled. Your parents didn't actually
necessarily feel it, but they had. Again, the word is
conviction. The reason they homeschooled you from the beginning was conviction. And they

(10:16):
again had a conviction that even though this isn't directly affecting us today,
right now. Right. I mean, we can still, our superintendent isn't making life
hard. They still said, you know what, this is still our battle for the
future. These are our children's, children's freedoms. This is our
people, this is our community. This is what God has called us to do. And
so your parents took up the fight even

(10:38):
though they didn't have any. They were not directly affected by
it in the moment. And they could have so easily just said, hey, you know
what? I'm living my life. It's not going to affect me today. It probably
won't even affect me tomorrow. I'm going to just do my thing. But they didn't.
They, their conviction moved them to action. Precisely. And,
and we as Christians and

(10:59):
as Americans in particular as well, need to
remember that the things we do or don't do now,
both positive and negative, will impact the future.
And I feel like a lot of times we don't realize
how dramatic of an impact that will be
because again, for our family, it wasn't a huge deal,

(11:21):
but they felt called to engage in that particular battle. And
then you look at it now, it took them and another family and
other families in the state to go, okay,
this may not impact me right now in this moment, but this is a
battle worth fighting for and over and
them coming together. If it weren't for all those families taking

(11:44):
the individual initiative to stand up
and not just homeschool, but also stand in defense of the right
to homeschool. Right. Our state wouldn't be where it is now and
it's today. Idaho is the freest state
in the nation when it comes to homeschooling. And that
is an amazing heritage. It's an amazing

(12:07):
outcome for people who stood on
conviction. Yes. And then put feet to that conviction.
Right, right. And I think that's what it is a
miracle. But it's a miracle where God used his people
who were willing, like you said, to stand on conviction and to be forward
thinking for generations to come. Right. And not just

(12:30):
do what God has called them to do, but to stand in defense for others
to do it as well. And we need to take a quick break, but we're
going to come back and we're going to take those lessons of that generation because
that's what we're called to do. We're called to look to the men and the
women that have walked before us. Right. And that's why, like your dad said, we
have to yoke real life with education. And we teach our kids history. But
why do we learn history? Right? So we can learn from it and gain from

(12:52):
it and grow from it and put it into practice in the future. So
we're gonna cut. We're gonna break to a sponsor really quick, and then we're gonna
be back and finish this conversation and see what we can learn from that generation.
We'll be right.

(13:39):
We are back. And so Audra. Audra was just telling
us about kind of the. The threats to freedom in. In her
generation when she was a kid. And my guess is, correct me if I'm wrong,
but your parents didn't leave you at home with a math book and trudge off
to the city six hours away to fight the fight. I'm assuming you were in
tow, correct? Oh, absolutely. Every.

(14:01):
Every time. There were days, actually, honestly, I got tired of being towed around. But
looking back on it, I was so glad that that happened.
I remember them going down to the. To the legislature at this time,
and, you know, all of us kids were in tow, and it was a long
drive. Like I said, it was six hours if the roads were good. And
sitting in the. In the upper area

(14:23):
around the Senate floor or the House floor, and listening to
testimony and being able to private
conversations with legislators and talk about the issue. And, I mean,
homeschooling was one of a handful of issues my parents were involved with politically. So
we got lots of exposure to a lot of politicians over the years and
those conversations. So, yeah, it was very much kind

(14:45):
of part of the fabric of my life growing up
was being engaged on an ongoing
basis with what was going on in the community at large,
not just in my, you know, in our four walls. Well, and there
was your civics, there was your government. There was every class you could
imagine, and you got schooled in that far more than you would have

(15:07):
staying stuck at home with a textbook. I am sure. For sure. Right. And your
story reminds me a little bit if you guys have not heard our episode with
Zan Tyler. If you just go to schoolhouserocked.com and you search,
you go to podcasts and you search in there, Zan Tyler, you're gonna
find an episode with her. And she was in probably about the same era,
but down south, dragging her kids to

(15:29):
their state house, doing the exact same thing. And it's
an incredible story. I love hearing about that generation, and I
would love if the story ended there. And you guys, your parents fought for our
freedom, we won our freedom, and now the rest of us can just
Kick back and, you know, live off, what do they say? Live off the fat
of the land. Is that how, you know? Right, right. Yeah. And,

(15:51):
but, but Audra, I'm, I'm getting a sense, and we've talked
about this on this podcast before, we are
faced with dangers to homeschool freedom currently right now. And they're
not exactly the same, but honestly, they are
the same. They're just wrapped in a little bit of a different paper. And so
do you feel that, you know, there was a time period where

(16:13):
everybody could kick back and relax? But are we, are we in the middle
of the same battle again? And can you kind of talk to that a little
bit? Sure.
The, the adage that we're never more than one generation away
from losing our freedom is so true
because we get comfortable in the space that we're

(16:34):
in and, and the benefits that we're living through, and we kind of
just, we don't engage as fully as we need to with what's
going on around us. And yes, we are in a
generation now where the same risks that we
saw 30 years ago, 40 years are
back. They're just wrapped up in a different package.

(16:57):
Back then it was, we don't want you homeschooling or if you're going to
homeschool, we're going to make it look like a public school at home
situation. Now the threats are coming out, well, fine,
you can homeschool, but
we'd like to give you some money to homeschool. Yeah,
we would like to pay you to do what you've been

(17:19):
convicted to do in the first place. So they just want to help us.
They just want to help us.
And unfortunately, you know, as much as
I love the United States, as much as I love our system of
government, as much as I feel God has blessed this
country, the reality is that

(17:40):
governments as an entity are not always vested
in what is in the best interest of our families and our
kids. And so they have sometimes ulterior
motives. Sometimes you have people who
have good motives in our legislature, but they
aren't thinking big picture of the long term ramifications of what

(18:02):
they're offering. And currently what they're offering is money
for homeschooling. Right.
And we can, we can go into a deep dive and why
that's problematic, but we don't have enough time. But no, and we have. And
if you guys want to go back and search on our podcast, the School Choice,
if you just look at Schoolhouse Rock School Choice, you're going to get all the

(18:23):
reasons we're opposed to this there, but. But we just want
to share a little bit about that just because we are called to learn from
history. And Audra is the perfect example of the parents who fought the battle. But
like she said, we're not more than one generation away. And so it's so interesting
because here she sits now as an adult and she is sitting in
the same legislative sessions, right? Fighting the

(18:44):
same fight, essentially fighting the. Same fight over again.
And, you know, I, I feel like this
generation that has been so deeply blessed by the liberty that
we have don't realize that these
new offerings for funding is going to
pull back those liberties a little at a time.

(19:07):
And families who are focused more
on the how do I do this? I can't do this. I'm not equipped
to do this. I can't afford to do this. Rather than relying on God
or treating government like
their provider and God like their insurance
policy. And really, it really

(19:29):
comes to a, we've got our priorities or our focus is
shifted the wrong direction. God is our provider, not
the government. And ultimately we have to. Everything
in life, including schooling, including how our government
works, including how we engage with our government and
what partnerships we engage in in educating our children

(19:51):
have to come back to. The first and foremost partner we engage with is
God. Right? And everything else has to be second
to that. Right? And if we engage in a partnership outside of that, say, other
families or the church, then, then we need to make sure that we are
equally yoked with those people as we partner with them. And the reality
is, like you said, we are not equally yoked with the government when it comes

(20:12):
to raising and teaching and training our kids. Right? They do not have the same
direction that they're going. We are teaching and training our kids to live in awe
and in wonder of who God is, to know God, be known by
God, and ultimately to have a foundation on his word is the ultimate authority.
That is not the government's goal with our children. So as
we yoke with other families or the churches, we

(20:35):
want to make sure that we are equally yoked, and we are not equally yoked
with the government as we, as we homeschool our kids. So, Audra,
because I couldn't have your parents on, and I'm not saying that you are a
second, you are not. But I want to ask
you, as, as a kid that was raised up as
a homeschooler that is now homeschooling your kids, that is a,

(20:57):
that you are such a success story, and mostly not,
because I'm not because I'm, you know, flattering you, but because you
love God with your whole heart and because you are doing his will. And to
me, that is the ultimate success of what we're doing and raising our kids in
homeschool. If you could share, and I kind of, I didn't prep you for
this, so this is, I'm kind of throwing this at you. If you could share

(21:19):
a couple of the top takeaways from your parents
and, and how they homeschooled and raised you, what,
what would those be? I would say that the top takeaway
that I saw in my parents life was their utter and complete
reliance on God. It's easy to say
we need to rely on God. It's easy to tell our kids

(21:41):
that. But to watch that day in
and day out, year after year, day upon
day, watching my parents live that calling
out had a profound effect. And I,
I got to be witness up close and personal because we were never apart. We
were always together. There was never a time where I,

(22:03):
I mean, I saw the bad days, I saw the good days, but ultimately they
were relying on God. And, and I think
that that was evidence that as homeschooling
parents, the key to being a successful
homeschool parent is never to
look to anyone else for the things that God has promised

(22:25):
to provide us. Yes, because he is. His
faithfulness is unmatched. And I got to see his faithfulness with my
parents. I'm watching his faithfulness in my day to day
life. I am, I'm doing my best
by God's grace to live his calling on my life
for my kids as well. And that when they walk away from this

(22:46):
homeschool education, what I want for them to have is
that utter and complete reliance on the goodness of
God and, and everything else will fall into place
if they have that right. Seek first the kingdom of God. And you're an example
of that. Right? I mean, if that's, if that is what your parents put all
their time and effort into, if they truly homeschooled you out of conviction and

(23:09):
complete dependence upon God, which they did, all of the
academics, all of the education, it came for you. I mean, I
look at, you're very well educated. I mean, it worked. It worked. It worked
because when we do things God's way, it will work
when we have things in the right order. That was my biggest takeaway
from your parents. The other is, I just love that your dad, that education

(23:31):
and life has to be married. There has to be a union between real life
and education. There is no separation right there. Yeah. Those two things
go hand in hand and it makes it real. And the last big takeaway
I had that I want to leave our audience encouraged is
engage your kids in the process. We have
to this generation, every listener here, whether you feel the

(23:54):
effects of regulation in your state, whether you are seeing
the. The school choice money come into your state and the regulations that will
guaranteed, will follow, you have to be engaged. And I encourage you
to be engaged before it's too late. I encourage you to be engaged
whether you feel the effects or not. Because quite frankly, none of us are
probably feeling the effects that are going to be coming in this

(24:16):
exact moment, but they will come. And we need to be engaged and
we need to engage our children. We need to be dragging our kids down
to the State House. We need to have them in the room when we're making
the calls to our legislators. We need to be telling them why we're
doing what we're doing. We're doing it because God has called us to do
something. We're answering God's call and because we care about them and

(24:38):
their future. And so don't think that you are in a
season that you can't engage because you have six kids at home. You're up
to your eyeballs in laundry and school and dinner. That's
okay. That's where God is going to show up and so drag
those babies down there. You'll give your kids. Write
letters. Write letters. Write letters. Absolutely. Let

(25:00):
your kids write letters to the legislators and let them know that this is
what we want. And Audra, I guess I want to ask you that last question.
What would you say if. If people say, what do
homeschoolers want? What did your parents want? What
do we want? When it comes to legislation, when it comes to bills, when it
comes to help from the government, what is it that we really want?

(25:22):
Well, the simple answer is we want nothing from the government because
we get everything we need from God. Every love we
need comes from the Lord. And we don't need anything from the government. We
just need the space to follow his calling in our lives. Yes, I love it.
We're actually the only people that show up down at the State House wanting nothing.
Right. Everybody else shows up down there and they want this and they want that,

(25:44):
and we show up with our babies and our kids and we just say, we
just want our freedom. We want nothing. Just leave us be. Let us
answer the call. And your parents did it well, and they raised a
generation in you. That is doing it well. And so
thank you so much for, for answering that call,
for continuing the trajectory and for just being a voice and

(26:06):
encouragement for all homeschoolers across the United
States. Audra has worked incredibly
hard. If you ever go to homeschool idaho.org she is
so much of what's behind homeschool idaho.org backslash schoolchoice.
She is the writer behind that. She is the writer. You will find her on
substack. You will find her everywhere just preaching this

(26:29):
message. And we are just thankful for her. We're thankful
for her parents, and we are just praying that we can all raise a
generation that would do this. So thank you, Audra, for coming on. It was a
total blessing. Where else can people find you if they want, if they want more
information or just encouragement from you?
Audra@HomeschoolIdaho.org. That's pretty much where you can

(26:49):
reach me. Yeah, email her. Email her your questions. She's.
She's very smart. She's very, very smart and very
encouraging and one of the most objective people that I've
ever met. So, anyway, thank you for being with us this week.
We're so glad you're here. We will be back next week
with a new guest and a new host. And so it's really

(27:11):
fun. We are loving this new way that we're doing things because you get
to hear from more voices. It used to be Yvette and I and
one guest, and now there. That's the beautiful thing about
Homeschool is everybody does it different. And there's so much wisdom and
we're all so unique. And so the way that the Schoolhouse Rocked is doing things
is that you're going to get a different host each week, a different guest each

(27:33):
week, a different voice of wisdom. But what you will always get, that we
can promise you, is everything will be rooted in God's word, Everything will be
founded on God's word, and you will always get biblical encouragement.
So please come back next week and go check out
SchoolhouseRocked.com watch the movie. Please watch the movie. Watch it
with your kids. It's free. I know we tell you that nothing is free. Nothing

(27:54):
is free. But the movie really is free. I don't know. It's. It is free.
Someone paid for it, but it's free. Go watch it. It's amazing. Watch
it as a family movie. Now that all the Christmas movies you've done, you're done.
You need something new for January. That's the one. You can find me at Aby
Rinella - His calling My passion, CalledToTheTop.com, anywhere
on social media. And we love you guys, and we're thankful

(28:16):
that you joined us today.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Preserving Homeschool Freedom: The Fight for Educational Independence – Audra Talley