November 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Meeke Addison and Dr. Kathy Koch dive into the power of family traditions, biblical hospitality, and real-life parenting—especially during the bustling holiday season. Learn why traditions bring stability, how to embrace imperfect moments, and the importance of modeling generosity and character for your kids. Dr. Kathy also shares essential strategies for homeschool families to prevent frustration post-holidays by recognizing each child’s unique strengths and “smarts.”
What you’ll learn:
· How traditions shape secure, joyful families
· Handling parental stress and perfectionism
· Fostering generosity and community beyond blood relatives
· Making the homeschool transition after holidays easier
Recommended Resources:
8 Great Smarts: Discover and Nurture Your Child's Intelligences, Dr. Kathy Koch
Parent Differently: Raise Kids with Biblical Character that Changes Culture, Dr. Kathy – Koch
More books from Dr. Kathy Koch
More from Meeke Addison on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast
We want to hear from you! Is there a guest you’d like to hear from or a subject you’d like us to discuss on the podcast? How can we be praying for you? Talk to us here.
Sponsors:
Apologia is a Christ-centered, award-winning homeschool curriculum provider. Our mission is to help homeschooling students and families learn, live, and defend the Christian faith through our print and digital curriculum and online classes.
BJU Press Homeschool is dedicated to providing homeschool families with academically strong curriculum rooted in a biblical worldview. They offer a complete curriculum from preschool through 12th grade, available in both traditional textbooks and video courses. By teaching through the lens of Christ’s power, they help students view the world through the transformative story of God’s creation
CTCMath specializes in providing online video tutorials that take a multi-sensory approach to learning. Creative graphics and animation, synchronized with the friendly voice of internationally acclaimed teacher, Pat Murray, make learning math easy and effective. Start your free trial today.
The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast is a member of the Biblical Family Network. Our mission is to support and encourage the family by providing the very best podcasts on family, discipleship, marriage, parenting, worldview, culture, and education, all from a Biblical perspective. Visit the website for more great shows, like the Thinking Dad, Culture Proof, The Nicki Truesdell Podcast, Homeschool Insights, and Made2Homeschool.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's, let's maintain that freedom and freedom means that I
can ignore the outside voices. We are, we are a family unit
called by God to this, this unique time and and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
(00:22):
I'm Miki, and it's great to be with you again this week for
Part 2 of my conversation with Doctor Kathy Cook.
If you didn't have the opportunity to hear the first
part, make sure you go back and check that out.
I know it's going to be a blessing to you.
Doctor Kathy is the founder and president of Celebrate Kids.
And as we pick up in Part 2 of our conversation, we're going to
(00:42):
be talking about the importance of establishing tradition.
So you're not going to want to miss this conversation, but
before we do that, we want to say a huge thank you to BJU
Press Homeschool for sponsoring the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
Their materials, I use them and I love them.
They have been a blessing for our family.
(01:02):
We've got six kids and all of them learn differently.
And so one of the things that weappreciate is the multi sensory
approach to learning. We have a kid who is on the
spectrum and he is able to enjoythe resources that come from BJU
Press Homeschool, So we highly recommend that you check them
out today. Go to bjupresshomeschool.com if
(01:23):
you want a curriculum where biblical worldview is woven into
it from the ground up or your kids are going to learn critical
thinking. I cannot recommend
bjupresshomeschool.com enough. You're going to be satisfied,
especially if you're educating multiple kids, that Homeschool
Hub is going to keep everything in order for you.
(01:44):
And Lord knows I need that in mylife.
So check them out today. That's bjupresshomeschool.com.
bjupresshomeschool.com. Doctor Kathy, it's great to be
with you as we continue our conversation, just talking about
the things that you and I are both passionate about the Lord
and kids. I, I was curious to know as we
(02:08):
head into this holiday season and it gets really, really busy.
You know, sometimes we can be tempted to kind of throw
everything out because, you know, they're all the needs to
perform and do all of the things.
But traditions are important to our kids.
Talk a little bit about why the stability of family traditions
matter in the development the healthy development of children.
(02:30):
I love to use the word stabilitybecause I, I do think that
that's a part of it. Traditions matter.
They, they help to give us security.
We know that every Thanksgiving,you know, this is what's going
to happen. Or the night before
Thanksgiving, we get to help momwith the bread or, you know,
Thanksgiving morning and you know, we get to do such and
(02:50):
such. We get to help set the table and
find the special, you know, pie cutter that we use for grandma's
pumpkin pie. I mean, so there's tradition
leads to security in in a way, Ican look back on my childhood
and I, I could name things for you.
So we get security from traditions.
It's not boring. In fact, if you try to change a
(03:12):
tradition, you'll probably get afight from some kids.
But we always, right, we always do this.
It's so beneficial. I think memories add joy, right?
I like if it's a good tradition,like hello, there's joy.
And and let me say that, you know, so there's joy, there's
memory, there's security that comes from routine.
(03:33):
You know, a lot of young children, right?
Like they can't go to bed until they have two sips of water, two
stories and three hugs, right? There is there's a systematic
way of being a kid. And so that's security that
comes from traditions. We always have great Aunt Erna.
She always sits in this chair and remember, she doesn't like
carrots, you know. So I mean, these are fun things
and I and I think I actually hada great aunt Erna.
(03:55):
I think the other thing that happens with tradition can be if
you do this right, Miki can be that multi generational biblical
worldview family where the greatgrandpa reads the scripture,
where the grandpa prays, where the children here adults in your
generation ask your parents questions about, you know, how
did you handle the depression orhow did you hand there was a war
(04:18):
when you were growing up too? What did you notice about that
and what did it do to culture? So I think they got to see us
being humble at us being teachable.
And so there's there's many, many, many, many benefits.
You know, I think sometimes it'sreally stressful for parents
because especially around the holidays, we're trying to
control our environment. You know, as a homeschooling
(04:39):
family, the the environment is so important and we're so
accustomed to having the environment look and sound and
feel the way we want it to look and sound and feel.
And so holiday traditions sometimes can create a little
bit of anxiety in us as parents because we are about to
transplant our kids maybe into an environment that we can't
(05:01):
control the sound, we can't control what's happening in that
place. And so we can be tempted to
maybe absent ourselves from someof those traditions.
I'm hoping that you can, Doctor Kathy, encourage us parents that
even if things are not exactly the way we want it, right, like
this tendency to want to controlso that our kids get this
(05:22):
perfect picture all the time. Talk about how imperfect
pictures actually aid in our kids development, that it's not
going to be always clean and neat.
And you may have to have a conversation like, now listen, I
know that they were arguing, buthere's the way that we would do
this. Here's the way we would talk
about it. Talk about how that also helps
to shape character. Oh, that's such a good point.
(05:44):
Absolutely. So even though we were just
saying that traditions matter because they can create security
and memories, we look back on and enjoy and the family bond,
which is so important. It doesn't have to be perfect.
In fact, I'm really glad you asked that question.
I would go on record to say imperfect's better.
Imperfect's real. We're not perfect.
Jesus is. We can't control.
(06:06):
One of the lies in our culture is that happiness is your right.
As an example, happiness happens.
Happiness is circumstantial, We cannot control other people, we
don't always get our way, nor should we.
Would actually be dangerous and titled egotistical, arrogant,
narcissist. It's not healthy.
So when things don't go well, you know, like, I can think back
(06:27):
to Easter this year where the prices of eggs were still really
high, where there were families who chose not to decorate as
many eggs as they had before andhad to say to the children, This
is why. And they actually, you know,
pulled out a receipt from the garbage bag or the garbage bag,
the shopping bag, you know, to show them what it costs to just
buy a dozen eggs. So it's OK if we train our
(06:48):
children to trust us and explainthat not everything is under our
control. And it's really OK.
I have family friends who felt the pressure.
They have a number of children and they felt the pressure a
number of years ago to repeat because they believe what we
believe, which is the tradition counts.
And yet homeschool family, very busy, multitude of ages on kids
who had gotten involved in in show choir and drama and one was
(07:11):
beginning to work outside of thehome and it was just too much to
coordinate. So they chose to not host
Thanksgiving and go to a food pantry instead and serve a meal.
And at first the kids were like,we have to have our own Turkey
'cause we love the leftovers. Like it totally got that.
But they didn't have a choice. They went with mom and dad and
it ended up becoming tradition. It was beautiful.
(07:33):
And what are you teaching that generosity and a spirit of grace
and other centeredness and respect and, and there was joy
there. And so, and then you can you can
make a meal and serve it on paper plates at home.
It doesn't all that doesn't workwith gravy.
It just, it just, it doesn't matter.
In other words, the tradition can be simple and the tradition
can be full of man. I've never made, you know, I
(07:55):
remember my brother loves lemon meringue pie and I remember the
first time his wife made a lemonmeringue pie didn't turn out as
well as the one she's making now, but she didn't give up.
And I think that's a cool lessonfor kids to see too, if that
makes sense. Yeah, I know.
It's so good. I mean, I mean, my mind just
goes back to, I think this sort of like sickness of perfection
(08:16):
that we have, you know, and I think maybe it's unique to
homeschooling families. I think because we are trying to
often do something that is so different.
And for so long we have measuredourselves by what is happening
with the collective and we're doing so.
We, we feel this pressure, I think, and I think it's a
self-imposed pressure, but we feel this pressure that like we
(08:37):
can't, we can't fail. And like the failure is defined
by something outside of ourselves.
Like it's, it's not about like what God has called us to do.
It's about what people might think.
It's about, you know, what maybethe larger culture might think.
So talk about what it is to evenbe successful.
You know, what I'm saying is you're trying to create these
traditions and how we remove ourselves from this unnecessary
(08:59):
pressure that the world might impose upon us or we ourselves.
But so good, you know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's let's maintain that freedom.
And the freedom means that I canignore the outside voices.
I don't, I don't need to do it my neighbor's way and I don't
(09:21):
need to do it the way the other homeschoolers in my Co-op do it
either. Like we are, we are a family
unit called by God to this, thisunique time and, and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
You know, what do you mean? You don't have Turkey or ham?
You have to have Turkey or ham. No, actually, we don't.
You know, we're Italian. And so we're going to, you know,
we're going to do lasagna. It doesn't matter.
You're not coming over to eat it, you know, leave me alone.
(09:42):
I, I think, you know, I think sometimes, Mickey, we should
just stand up for ourselves and say leave me alone.
We say it in our head, maybe we say it out loud if we've earned
the right to say it. And we say, man, I'm so happy
for your tradition. Are you interested in mine?
You know, so yeah. Where's the pressure coming
from? Competition.
We live in a, we live in a day and an age where I, you know,
(10:04):
comparison itis, you know, some of us have made-up that word,
you know, due to social media. In fact, you know, I often post
on a holiday, get off of here ifthis is depressing, if you have
no one to invite over for Thanksgiving dinner, what are
you doing scrolling and looking at other people's turkeys?
And it's just, it's just adding to your depression.
And if you are alone, then go serve and then you won't be
(10:24):
alone. That's good.
And ask someone if they would bewilling to invite you over.
I have a Thanksgiving family here in Fort Worth, TX and they
invite me or ever they invite meover every Thanksgiving.
Like I know. And, and it's just so beautiful
that because we actually have a tradition that children expect
me to be there. And I always bring a new game.
And I'm the one that brings the new game, which we play after
(10:46):
the the meal has been finished and the tables have been
cleared. So it's, it's beautiful, but
it's not about perfection. It's not about being someone
you're not. And, and can we be content with
who we are like Mickey, the lackof contentment in our culture,
right? I was trying to be, I was trying
to do better than something other than no be who you were
(11:10):
called and created to be. And if you have simple
traditions, have them. And if you have imperfections,
teach your children how to handle them.
You know, the gravy didn't turn out as well as moms.
It's OK. I wouldn't have even noticed.
Just keep your mouth shut, you know, or you know, talk about
the gravy and then teach your sons and daughters how you tried
and how you're coping and what you hope happens.
(11:31):
And then you're going to call mom tomorrow and ask her what
you maybe did wrong. You know what an opportunity
because our kids aren't learningto struggle well.
So we in our imperfections, we have the gift of teaching our
kids how to handle it when things go wrong.
Yeah. You know, one of the things that
I've really benefited from is inmy in my weakness and, you know,
(11:52):
just being able to say to my kids, you know, moms not really
good at this. I'm going to try it.
I'm going to attempt it. But you know, moms, this is not
my area. So like, I'm not, you know,
aesthetics, it's not my thing. Okay, but I have I have a
daughter, our second born who man aesthetics.
That's her thing. So I commissioned her.
(12:14):
I'm like, all right, you're, you're on decorations this year.
OK, you got it. Like you make it look good.
You know, I'll do what I do and you do what you do.
But I think sometimes the fear of failure, again, it keeps us
from doing those things that, you know, could build us right.
And we see this in our kids. We don't like it, but maybe to
some small extent or, you know, in small measure, maybe that's a
(12:37):
little bit in US. Do you see that, Doctor Kathy,
as you travel and talk to parents and kids?
Are parents modeling a fear, a crippling fear of failure to
their kids? It's such a good point, I think
unfortunate. Yes, the answer is the quick
answer would be yes. Many do.
I think many of our homeschool families assume they have to
have it all together to teach children how to have it all
(12:58):
together. No, you don't have to have it
all together. You have to be resilient and
learn how to walk out of valleysand not sit down and count the
grass per square inch in your valley.
And we do what you've done to teach the children.
In fact, what if we sat down with our kids and we asked them,
you know, Thanksgivings in two weeks or Christmases in five
weeks, what should we do this year?
(13:19):
Like, what traditions have you really benefited from that you
don't want us to skip? And who wants to take the lead?
Like I love that your second born daughter knows that she's
gifted and that you humble yourself and say this is this is
yours. I don't even I know her well
enough to just imagine the joy. I'm assuming when you send her
into a a store to buy the stuff,there's a there's a spending
(13:40):
limit. You probably don't give her the
unlimited MasterCard. Oh no.
Yeah. So, yeah, that's right.
But I'd love that, you know, if you have a child who's precise,
you let her set the table because she will get the knife,
you know, straight and she'll get the fork on the left side,
you know, and that's cool that they and you know what, let the
four year old boy set the table and put the knife on the wrong
(14:02):
side. It's it does, it doesn't matter.
Like, are you going to be judged?
Don't invite the people over whoare going to judge you for that.
And if they do, if grandma notices, what's the spoon doing
over there? Hey, I let Brian set the table
because he needed something to do so that he would feel he was
contributing to our big day. Like I think how do they learn
(14:24):
Mickey? How do they learn the AB CS?
By using the AB CS? How do they learn that 2 + 2 = 4
and not 5? By practicing 2 + 2 = 4.
So how do they learn to be a part of the family?
By being imperfect contributors who are challenged and taught to
be better as they age up. And then you celebrate progress,
(14:44):
right? That's so important.
All right, I want to grab a quick break and then on the
other side of that break, I wantto talk about really building up
a community and and building up hospitality in our traditions.
Like what does it look like for us to be hospitable and how does
that extend beyond our immediatefamily?
(15:05):
Like maybe challenge some of ourlisteners to think in that way.
And then before we wrap up, I know, you know, we start
thinking about taking a break during the holidays, but we're
going to get back to schooling. We're going to get back to
homeschooling. So I'd like to pick your brain
on how we might consider while we're taking a break, how we
move away from frustrating our kids in the way that we educate
(15:27):
them, maybe hint, hint, deal with their smarts.
So if we could do that kind of like tie that in a little bit,
it'd be great. But we'll grab this break first.
Have you tried CTC Math yet withyour child?
Here's a testimonial from another happy homeschool mom.
Amber said. I'm absolutely thrilled with CTC
Math. It's a rare find that I've used
(15:49):
with my children for more than five years now.
I have six children using CTC Math and each child has found it
easy to navigate and very applicable.
Thank you so much for all that you are doing and providing
quality math lessons for my children.
If you're looking for a great online math program, visit
ctcmath.com. That's ctcmath.com.
(16:11):
Join Apologia for the HomeschoolBoot Camp, a free video series
that provides practical guidanceand wisdom from experienced
homeschool parents. You'll discover how to equip
your family for academic, social, and spiritual success.
Plus, you'll discover how to build deeper and stronger family
relationships. Homeschool Boot Camp covers how
to break free from the public school mindset, daily planning,
(16:33):
supporting students with learning challenges,
homeschooling as a working parent, navigating the high
school years, and much more. Find
thisincrediblefreehomeschoolresource@apologia.com/bootcamp.And we're back with Doctor Kathy
Cook. Dr. Kathy, it's always such a
joy to talk with you. We're talking about traditions,
and we're talking about how maybe we establish and expand
(16:57):
some of our family traditions. One of the things that I see in
Scripture is that hospitality isa gift and that you see the
early church gathering together and there's a unity, there's a
cohesiveness in the body of Christ.
And it's not just blood relatives, right, That we are
extending ourselves to one another.
What do you think that does for kids who see their parents like
(17:19):
really living out that aspect ofGod's Word?
Yeah, I love that. I, I think we live with I, I
don't know, Mickey, I think we are some of the most selfish
self-centered people who have ever walked the earth.
Now, I don't know for sure. I didn't didn't live at any
other time in history. But the phones as an example,
phones have caused us to be selflike selfie self focused.
(17:43):
We're looking down at our devices.
We answer the phone even only ifwe're in the mood.
But back in the day, I had to answer the phone.
We did not even have an answering machine.
You know, when I was young, you know, we can auto correct and
Photoshop out of our pictures the people who we wish weren't
there. I mean, we can develop a very
self focused, selfish and self-centered existence.
So when we watch our parents invite new friends over, maybe
(18:08):
there's a new family from churchwho doesn't have a big family
and we don't want, you know, a mom and a dad and a 2 year old
to be alone. And we invite them over and the
kid is like, I don't even know them.
Well, you're going to find out about them, you know, so what's
to teach? It teaches that others matter
more than we do, and that is biblical times 2 to be other
centered and to get our eyes offof our self.
(18:29):
And, you know, if we invite somebody over who has a need,
then it's even more so going to happen.
If they have some unusual circumstances, maybe maybe, you
know, somebody in the church who's grieving because a mom or
a dad just passed away and this is going to be the first, you
know, Thanksgiving for your friend without going to mom's
house. Invite that person over and let
her cry in front of you. So it shows other centeredness.
(18:51):
It shows that it's not about us.It shows generosity.
You know, when I wrote my character book parent
differently, I wanted a big, I wanted a top 12.
I had to do a Baker's dozen. I was frustrated, Mickey, I
wanted just 12. It's so nice, you know, but I
was researching the 48th that I had in the book and what what do
I believe is important? And other centeredness made the
(19:12):
list. It's actually number number six
in the order. But you know what Baker's dozen
13 is generosity. I had to include generosity in
the top 13 because the research is so clear, both biblically and
secular, if you will, of the benefits of being a generous
person. Teach your children that by
having strangers or new friends in your home.
(19:32):
Or if you go out to a restaurant, invite somebody to
join you. It's interesting to me that you
connected that to our self selfie driven world, right?
That we are, we are me, we, us, our focused.
And yet at the same time, we areoften comparing ourselves.
(19:52):
It's like, it's like, how am I focused on myself compared to
the person who's also focused onhimself or herself?
And, and sort of like the, the net gain of it is like 0, like
we're, we're not benefiting one another.
We, and, and the Bible says thatwhen we compare ourselves among
ourselves, that it's not wise. And yet this is happening and
(20:13):
it's crippling us and our kids are watching the entire time.
Totally. Let me just challenge everybody.
I mean, I'm glad people are listening today.
It's such an honor, isn't it, tobe influential for them.
You know, if at the end of the day you don't remember
conversations you've had or let's say you have a hard time
remembering someone's name or what they said, that's because
we're selfish in our listening. We're not listening to learn.
(20:35):
We're listening for our turn to talk.
Primary evidence of selfish selfcenteredness is listening for
our turn to talk. So if somebody shares with me,
I, I know someone as an example,who if, if I share with them,
they generally say, how was yourday?
And I share. They don't ask me to elaborate
on my day. They don't ask for hey, tell me
(20:56):
more. They immediately answer the same
question for themselves. They don't enter into a
conversation. It's more of an interrogation
and it's a chance for them to ultimately talk about
themselves. It's an example of being
selfish. And we all do it because we
think that we're the most important person in the room.
And when that happens, we're nothonoring, we're not favoring
(21:16):
others, we're not giving them a chance to, you know, being being
known and, and be a part of a dynamic, true give and take
conversation. And and that so we can watch for
so many things that are really damaging.
So how do we? OK, So, Doctor Kathy.
OK, you know, right? You understand.
I have another thought. OK, so how do we address that in
(21:40):
our children? OK, dealing with parents, right?
That's that's one thing. But when we see that tendency in
our children, how do we lovingly, gently, but like,
sternly address that tendency tobe selfish even in our
conversations? Man, I love that question.
We have to be stern sometimes. We absolutely do.
(22:02):
You know, I love the Book of Esther and it could have been
called Mordecai. Without Mordecai's brilliance,
Esther wouldn't have been Esther.
And we read in chapter 2 in two occasions that Mordecai
instructed Esther. It doesn't say that he gave
advice or opinion. He instructed.
And I think it's chapter 2, verse 20.
(22:22):
It's either verse 10 or 20 whereit it, he forbade her to do
something. He, she was forbidden to speak
up and tell people who she was. We can forbid kids.
That's not wrong. To have a standard of Christ
likeness to say this is inappropriate behavior and then
to say this is selfish. Here's why I say that.
(22:42):
And sweetheart, we can't allow that to happen.
That's not of the Lord. Like, let's use biblical
principles, right? So we observe.
First of all, Mickey, we have toobserve, which means again,
we're not just focused on ourselves, we're focused on the
children in the room. We put our phones down and we're
fully present and we observe andwe see.
Are they frustrated? We see how they behave.
(23:03):
And guess what? They're going to end up lonely.
If you behave in community, Selfish and self-centered, you
will not have solid friends who stick with you.
They will begin to dissipate. They will begin to walk away.
Why? Because they don't feel good in
your presence. And so when your child
complaints about my friends aren't hanging out with me or
nobody will come over, when it'smovie night and I wonder why
nobody's coming over, this is when we're really brave moms and
(23:26):
dads and we say, okay, Katie, doyou really want to know what
mommy's noticed? Are you ready?
Yes, come on. And Mickey, we.
Do it with love and we do it with power because why?
God has empowered us to raise these children and we need to
call sin sin. We need to compliment and affirm
that which is truly good and righteous to God be the glory.
And we need to walk with our kids and say, oh, sweetheart,
(23:48):
I'm disappointed. So we look for the pattern.
You know, if it happens once, you know, she had a bad day or
it was that particular person that she interacted with that
way. And maybe you saw that that
friend was really being difficult.
But if you see the pattern develop and you can call it out
and talk about why you want the child to change.
And then here's the key. You got to teach them how to
(24:08):
change. So again, I know that's your
question. How do we how do we help them
discover A and other centered perspective?
We model it, we teach it, we usescripture, we affirm them when
we're in the room and we see them carrying about another
person. We do a thumbs up.
We actually train the conversation.
My books start with the Heart has three chapters about
conversation and communication because we're so bad at it.
(24:29):
So we teach the children how to ask a follow up question.
We teach our, our, our kids to say, hey, tell me more.
That's I don't know much about that.
Rather than being afraid, they don't know much about it and
they don't want to look foolish.Just say, hey, I, I've never
tried that. Tell me more.
Yeah, I love, I love the balancethat you just brought to your
response, Doctor Kathy, because what I heard you say is that we
(24:50):
want to identify this sin because that's what we're
talking about. When when you're missing the
mark, we're talking about sin, right.
So we want to identify it and wedon't want to make excuses.
I think sometimes parents can make excuses for bad behavior.
And it starts very early. Oh, he didn't get a nap.
And that may be true, but also maybe he's just being rotten.
Like maybe we need to just, you know, like maybe he needs a nap,
(25:12):
but also maybe there's a little character issue there that we've
got to be willing to deal with. But I love that you are bringing
balance to this because while wedon't want to just address that
issue, we do want the balance ofunderstanding.
OK, you know what that that's not, I don't see that in your
character often. And so there may be something
else going on. I want to address that.
(25:34):
But if that's not true, then youknow, we want to make sure that
we we identify those character issues and not make make excuses
for our kids. Exactly.
And we see, you know what's the why behind the what?
Like why is a child being selfish or self-centered?
Why are you ignoring people in the room and looking at your
phone so often? What's the why?
(25:55):
Are they fearful? Are they insecure because we
haven't taught them? Are they competing unbeknownst
to them? Are they competing with that
person so they don't feel like they measure up so therefore
they'd rather ignore then find out for sure that they can't
measure up. So if we can determine based on
the pattern why we think our children are behaving this way,
(26:16):
then that's what we have to dealwith.
Because you and I know beliefs cause behavior, what I believe
will show up in how I behave. So it's not just dealing with,
you know, why were you so selfish?
Which they might not have even known that that's what they were
being. We're terrible with vocabulary,
but we examine and we think, OK,how has she been behaving
(26:36):
lately? And then what might be going on
there? And we challenge her to to
figure it out with conversation with us.
And I, I, I do, I want to squeeze this and I know we're
running out of time here, but you know, as we come out of the
holidays, we, I don't mean to make it sound like, you know,
we've got to return to educationand we've got to return to
sitting at that table and doing algebra or, you know, algebra 2
(27:00):
like it's, it's coming back, you're eating Turkey, but
algebra's coming back. How can we just sort of like
briefly, how can we get to a place in educating our kids that
we don't frustrate them? And how can we start thinking
about that right now? Yeah, a fair question.
You know, I would, I would actually say, Mickey, that, you
(27:20):
know, one advantage of homeschooling is that you'd
never really stop. Like you might stop algebras at
1:00, get your book, totally getthat.
But what you and I know is that everything that you have done on
break is learning. And that's the power of this
homeschool model. So as your child helped you
measure the ingredients for, youknow, the pumpkin pie or
whatever that was math. You don't have to write it down
on a playbook if you don't want to.
(27:41):
But first of all, I would say, don't think that you stopped.
And now, oh, we have to start inin a formal sense.
Yes you do, but in an informal sense, no you don't, if that
makes sense. Now, we frustrate our kids when
we don't train and teach them. And we're all individuals, so
some of us are word smart, we think with words, and some of us
are logic smart and we think with questions.
We'd love it when things make sense.
We want things to be fair and just.
(28:03):
If you have that kind of a kid, teaching phonics will be hell on
earth to them because all the rules don't work.
You know, the E at the end of the word doesn't always make the
first vow along. So just be aware of that.
They're not stupid and you're not a bad teacher of phonics.
Their brain struggles with things that are illogical
because God made them to be logic smart.
The more we know our kids and this model of intelligences that
(28:25):
I've written about, the better. And then we got picture smart
kids who are creative with theireyes and they see in their head
and they see on paper and they need art.
Art is a legitimate part of our homeschooling.
And in fact, if I were teaching a child who did not want to come
back to school right, like we had this one week break or
whatever for Thanksgiving and they really don't want Monday
morning to happen, and this kid loves art.
I would start with art. Even if you typically start with
(28:46):
spelling, writing, and reading, I wouldn't on the first day
back. I would let them draw their best
memory of their Thanksgiving break with three colors only and
then write 2 sentences that are about the picture.
But I wouldn't start with major writing if they don't like to
write on the first day back music.
Smart kids love rhythms and melodies and you can interview
them about the music that was sung or not sung this
(29:07):
Thanksgiving break that they wish they would have heard.
And body. Smart kids think with movement
and touch. So they need rocking chairs and
beanbag chairs and they should be allowed to walk on the patio
as they're studying their spelling words and and that's
that can be hard for some people, but it's so profitable.
Nature smart kids think with patterns AB and AD and a six and
a nine is a pattern. So is the Bluebird and the blue
(29:28):
Jay. And they they're going to do
best outside on the patio. Let let them be on their swing
set body, smart nature, smart kids, let them swing as they're
rehearsing the poem that they'regoing to memorize to share on
Friday at the nursing home wheregrandma and grandpa live.
And then people, smart kids lovebeing with people.
So if your school day isolates them, they're going to die on
the vine, You know, if they're kind of forced into the quiet
(29:49):
bedroom. If we have a brain that thinks
with people, we actually do bestwith people, even if we don't
talk to them. There's something about the
energy of being in the room. So let them hang with you in the
kitchen when you're Browning theground beef for the dinner that
you're going to make later that day.
And then self smart, self smart,quiet, peace, privacy, space,
(30:09):
alone time, personal revelation,getting choices empowers them.
So smart kids can be harder to teach because they love and like
and need to be alone, but you can't afford for that.
You need to have them answer your question.
So that's a quick, really quick look at the age smarts that I've
been privileged to teach even atyour conferences, which I've
(30:30):
loved doing. And I hope that even that brief,
overdue overview might motivate somebody to teach differently
each child as they have the energy to do so.
That's so good. OK, So Doctor Kathy, if our
listeners were going to go to celebratekids.com, OK, And they
were going to click on that tab that says resources, what book?
And I know this is hard, right? I'm asking you to pick a book
(30:53):
that you would recommend that our listeners start with.
Like where should they start with your resources?
Oh, that's so kind of you. Well, 8th Grade Smarts is the
book that I just did that reallyquick overview.
So if you haven't read 8th GradeSmarts, it is my best seller.
It is what homeschool Penguins have thanked me for for years.
And I would certainly recommend that 8th Grade Smarts.
(31:14):
And then my book Parent Differently is the book about
character. So this idea of being hospitable
and being generous and being kind and being other centered,
if people are intrigued by that,you know, I think teaching
character is more important thanteaching spelling.
And, and I, and I will say that and probably until the day I
die, not that spelling's irrelevant, but character
Trump's at all because who I am causes me to do what I do.
(31:37):
So that book is called Parent Differently.
I love you, Doctor. Kathy, you're such a love you.
You are a blessing to whole schooling families and families
in general. So thank you so much for the
work that you put in. I know that you guys also have
courses available at your website, and our listeners will
be able to find that when they go to celebrate kids.com,
(31:58):
celebratekids.com. If the Schoolhouse Rock podcast
audience is interested in learning more about me, then you
can check out our website at cultureproof.net.
We host a podcast and events andcreate resources to help
families understand what's goingon in the culture specifically
and to respond biblically. So that is Culture proof.net.
(32:20):
That wraps up my time with you, Doctor Kathy.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Want to encourage our audience to join us next week for an
incredible guest on the Schoolhouse Rocked podcast?
Until then, God bless you. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
(32:42):
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially when we see what's happening in our culture today,
but the answers are found withinthe Word of God, so that's where
we want to look. Amen.
When we resist those cultural trends that rival the truth.
(33:05):
We remain culture proof. I'm going to blow it up from the
beginning. You're going to thank this
later. I don't believe in balance.
I think balance, in the words ofSolomon, is like chasing after
the wind. And I think it's been a huge
problem for moms. It's kind of like this idea of
being behind. I don't believe in being behind.
(33:27):
You are where you are, and the enemy wants to take you captive
where you are, whether you're ahead or behind.
But when it comes to balance, I think it's related and that we
get this in our head that everything's got to be even.
And I'm just going to tell you, it doesn't have to be.
You know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's, let's maintain that freedom and freedom means that I
can ignore the outside voices. We are, we are a family unit
called by God to this, this unique time and and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
(00:22):
I'm Miki, and it's great to be with you again this week for
Part 2 of my conversation with Doctor Kathy Cook.
If you didn't have the opportunity to hear the first
part, make sure you go back and check that out.
I know it's going to be a blessing to you.
Doctor Kathy is the founder and president of Celebrate Kids.
And as we pick up in Part 2 of our conversation, we're going to
(00:42):
be talking about the importance of establishing tradition.
So you're not going to want to miss this conversation, but
before we do that, we want to say a huge thank you to BJU
Press Homeschool for sponsoring the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
Their materials, I use them and I love them.
They have been a blessing for our family.
(01:02):
We've got six kids and all of them learn differently.
And so one of the things that weappreciate is the multi sensory
approach to learning. We have a kid who is on the
spectrum and he is able to enjoythe resources that come from BJU
Press Homeschool, So we highly recommend that you check them
out today. Go to bjupresshomeschool.com if
(01:23):
you want a curriculum where biblical worldview is woven into
it from the ground up or your kids are going to learn critical
thinking. I cannot recommend
bjupresshomeschool.com enough. You're going to be satisfied,
especially if you're educating multiple kids, that Homeschool
Hub is going to keep everything in order for you.
(01:44):
And Lord knows I need that in mylife.
So check them out today. That's bjupresshomeschool.com.
bjupresshomeschool.com. Doctor Kathy, it's great to be
with you as we continue our conversation, just talking about
the things that you and I are both passionate about the Lord
and kids. I, I was curious to know as we
(02:08):
head into this holiday season and it gets really, really busy.
You know, sometimes we can be tempted to kind of throw
everything out because, you know, they're all the needs to
perform and do all of the things.
But traditions are important to our kids.
Talk a little bit about why the stability of family traditions
matter in the development the healthy development of children.
(02:30):
I love to use the word stabilitybecause I, I do think that
that's a part of it. Traditions matter.
They, they help to give us security.
We know that every Thanksgiving,you know, this is what's going
to happen. Or the night before
Thanksgiving, we get to help momwith the bread or, you know,
Thanksgiving morning and you know, we get to do such and
(02:50):
such. We get to help set the table and
find the special, you know, pie cutter that we use for grandma's
pumpkin pie. I mean, so there's tradition
leads to security in in a way, Ican look back on my childhood
and I, I could name things for you.
So we get security from traditions.
It's not boring. In fact, if you try to change a
(03:12):
tradition, you'll probably get afight from some kids.
But we always, right, we always do this.
It's so beneficial. I think memories add joy, right?
I like if it's a good tradition,like hello, there's joy.
And and let me say that, you know, so there's joy, there's
memory, there's security that comes from routine.
(03:33):
You know, a lot of young children, right?
Like they can't go to bed until they have two sips of water, two
stories and three hugs, right? There is there's a systematic
way of being a kid. And so that's security that
comes from traditions. We always have great Aunt Erna.
She always sits in this chair and remember, she doesn't like
carrots, you know. So I mean, these are fun things
and I and I think I actually hada great aunt Erna.
(03:55):
I think the other thing that happens with tradition can be if
you do this right, Miki can be that multi generational biblical
worldview family where the greatgrandpa reads the scripture,
where the grandpa prays, where the children here adults in your
generation ask your parents questions about, you know, how
did you handle the depression orhow did you hand there was a war
(04:18):
when you were growing up too? What did you notice about that
and what did it do to culture? So I think they got to see us
being humble at us being teachable.
And so there's there's many, many, many, many benefits.
You know, I think sometimes it'sreally stressful for parents
because especially around the holidays, we're trying to
control our environment. You know, as a homeschooling
(04:39):
family, the the environment is so important and we're so
accustomed to having the environment look and sound and
feel the way we want it to look and sound and feel.
And so holiday traditions sometimes can create a little
bit of anxiety in us as parents because we are about to
transplant our kids maybe into an environment that we can't
(05:01):
control the sound, we can't control what's happening in that
place. And so we can be tempted to
maybe absent ourselves from someof those traditions.
I'm hoping that you can, Doctor Kathy, encourage us parents that
even if things are not exactly the way we want it, right, like
this tendency to want to controlso that our kids get this
(05:22):
perfect picture all the time. Talk about how imperfect
pictures actually aid in our kids development, that it's not
going to be always clean and neat.
And you may have to have a conversation like, now listen, I
know that they were arguing, buthere's the way that we would do
this. Here's the way we would talk
about it. Talk about how that also helps
to shape character. Oh, that's such a good point.
(05:44):
Absolutely. So even though we were just
saying that traditions matter because they can create security
and memories, we look back on and enjoy and the family bond,
which is so important. It doesn't have to be perfect.
In fact, I'm really glad you asked that question.
I would go on record to say imperfect's better.
Imperfect's real. We're not perfect.
Jesus is. We can't control.
(06:06):
One of the lies in our culture is that happiness is your right.
As an example, happiness happens.
Happiness is circumstantial, We cannot control other people, we
don't always get our way, nor should we.
Would actually be dangerous and titled egotistical, arrogant,
narcissist. It's not healthy.
So when things don't go well, you know, like, I can think back
(06:27):
to Easter this year where the prices of eggs were still really
high, where there were families who chose not to decorate as
many eggs as they had before andhad to say to the children, This
is why. And they actually, you know,
pulled out a receipt from the garbage bag or the garbage bag,
the shopping bag, you know, to show them what it costs to just
buy a dozen eggs. So it's OK if we train our
(06:48):
children to trust us and explainthat not everything is under our
control. And it's really OK.
I have family friends who felt the pressure.
They have a number of children and they felt the pressure a
number of years ago to repeat because they believe what we
believe, which is the tradition counts.
And yet homeschool family, very busy, multitude of ages on kids
who had gotten involved in in show choir and drama and one was
(07:11):
beginning to work outside of thehome and it was just too much to
coordinate. So they chose to not host
Thanksgiving and go to a food pantry instead and serve a meal.
And at first the kids were like,we have to have our own Turkey
'cause we love the leftovers. Like it totally got that.
But they didn't have a choice. They went with mom and dad and
it ended up becoming tradition. It was beautiful.
(07:33):
And what are you teaching that generosity and a spirit of grace
and other centeredness and respect and, and there was joy
there. And so, and then you can you can
make a meal and serve it on paper plates at home.
It doesn't all that doesn't workwith gravy.
It just, it just, it doesn't matter.
In other words, the tradition can be simple and the tradition
can be full of man. I've never made, you know, I
(07:55):
remember my brother loves lemon meringue pie and I remember the
first time his wife made a lemonmeringue pie didn't turn out as
well as the one she's making now, but she didn't give up.
And I think that's a cool lessonfor kids to see too, if that
makes sense. Yeah, I know.
It's so good. I mean, I mean, my mind just
goes back to, I think this sort of like sickness of perfection
(08:16):
that we have, you know, and I think maybe it's unique to
homeschooling families. I think because we are trying to
often do something that is so different.
And for so long we have measuredourselves by what is happening
with the collective and we're doing so.
We, we feel this pressure, I think, and I think it's a
self-imposed pressure, but we feel this pressure that like we
(08:37):
can't, we can't fail. And like the failure is defined
by something outside of ourselves.
Like it's, it's not about like what God has called us to do.
It's about what people might think.
It's about, you know, what maybethe larger culture might think.
So talk about what it is to evenbe successful.
You know, what I'm saying is you're trying to create these
traditions and how we remove ourselves from this unnecessary
(08:59):
pressure that the world might impose upon us or we ourselves.
But so good, you know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's let's maintain that freedom.
And the freedom means that I canignore the outside voices.
I don't, I don't need to do it my neighbor's way and I don't
(09:21):
need to do it the way the other homeschoolers in my Co-op do it
either. Like we are, we are a family
unit called by God to this, thisunique time and, and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
You know, what do you mean? You don't have Turkey or ham?
You have to have Turkey or ham. No, actually, we don't.
You know, we're Italian. And so we're going to, you know,
we're going to do lasagna. It doesn't matter.
You're not coming over to eat it, you know, leave me alone.
(09:42):
I, I think, you know, I think sometimes, Mickey, we should
just stand up for ourselves and say leave me alone.
We say it in our head, maybe we say it out loud if we've earned
the right to say it. And we say, man, I'm so happy
for your tradition. Are you interested in mine?
You know, so yeah. Where's the pressure coming
from? Competition.
We live in a, we live in a day and an age where I, you know,
(10:04):
comparison itis, you know, some of us have made-up that word,
you know, due to social media. In fact, you know, I often post
on a holiday, get off of here ifthis is depressing, if you have
no one to invite over for Thanksgiving dinner, what are
you doing scrolling and looking at other people's turkeys?
And it's just, it's just adding to your depression.
And if you are alone, then go serve and then you won't be
(10:24):
alone. That's good.
And ask someone if they would bewilling to invite you over.
I have a Thanksgiving family here in Fort Worth, TX and they
invite me or ever they invite meover every Thanksgiving.
Like I know. And, and it's just so beautiful
that because we actually have a tradition that children expect
me to be there. And I always bring a new game.
And I'm the one that brings the new game, which we play after
(10:46):
the the meal has been finished and the tables have been
cleared. So it's, it's beautiful, but
it's not about perfection. It's not about being someone
you're not. And, and can we be content with
who we are like Mickey, the lackof contentment in our culture,
right? I was trying to be, I was trying
to do better than something other than no be who you were
(11:10):
called and created to be. And if you have simple
traditions, have them. And if you have imperfections,
teach your children how to handle them.
You know, the gravy didn't turn out as well as moms.
It's OK. I wouldn't have even noticed.
Just keep your mouth shut, you know, or you know, talk about
the gravy and then teach your sons and daughters how you tried
and how you're coping and what you hope happens.
(11:31):
And then you're going to call mom tomorrow and ask her what
you maybe did wrong. You know what an opportunity
because our kids aren't learningto struggle well.
So we in our imperfections, we have the gift of teaching our
kids how to handle it when things go wrong.
Yeah. You know, one of the things that
I've really benefited from is inmy in my weakness and, you know,
(11:52):
just being able to say to my kids, you know, moms not really
good at this. I'm going to try it.
I'm going to attempt it. But you know, moms, this is not
my area. So like, I'm not, you know,
aesthetics, it's not my thing. Okay, but I have I have a
daughter, our second born who man aesthetics.
That's her thing. So I commissioned her.
(12:14):
I'm like, all right, you're, you're on decorations this year.
OK, you got it. Like you make it look good.
You know, I'll do what I do and you do what you do.
But I think sometimes the fear of failure, again, it keeps us
from doing those things that, you know, could build us right.
And we see this in our kids. We don't like it, but maybe to
some small extent or, you know, in small measure, maybe that's a
(12:37):
little bit in US. Do you see that, Doctor Kathy,
as you travel and talk to parents and kids?
Are parents modeling a fear, a crippling fear of failure to
their kids? It's such a good point, I think
unfortunate. Yes, the answer is the quick
answer would be yes. Many do.
I think many of our homeschool families assume they have to
have it all together to teach children how to have it all
(12:58):
together. No, you don't have to have it
all together. You have to be resilient and
learn how to walk out of valleysand not sit down and count the
grass per square inch in your valley.
And we do what you've done to teach the children.
In fact, what if we sat down with our kids and we asked them,
you know, Thanksgivings in two weeks or Christmases in five
weeks, what should we do this year?
(13:19):
Like, what traditions have you really benefited from that you
don't want us to skip? And who wants to take the lead?
Like I love that your second born daughter knows that she's
gifted and that you humble yourself and say this is this is
yours. I don't even I know her well
enough to just imagine the joy. I'm assuming when you send her
into a a store to buy the stuff,there's a there's a spending
(13:40):
limit. You probably don't give her the
unlimited MasterCard. Oh no.
Yeah. So, yeah, that's right.
But I'd love that, you know, if you have a child who's precise,
you let her set the table because she will get the knife,
you know, straight and she'll get the fork on the left side,
you know, and that's cool that they and you know what, let the
four year old boy set the table and put the knife on the wrong
(14:02):
side. It's it does, it doesn't matter.
Like, are you going to be judged?
Don't invite the people over whoare going to judge you for that.
And if they do, if grandma notices, what's the spoon doing
over there? Hey, I let Brian set the table
because he needed something to do so that he would feel he was
contributing to our big day. Like I think how do they learn
(14:24):
Mickey? How do they learn the AB CS?
By using the AB CS? How do they learn that 2 + 2 = 4
and not 5? By practicing 2 + 2 = 4.
So how do they learn to be a part of the family?
By being imperfect contributors who are challenged and taught to
be better as they age up. And then you celebrate progress,
(14:44):
right? That's so important.
All right, I want to grab a quick break and then on the
other side of that break, I wantto talk about really building up
a community and and building up hospitality in our traditions.
Like what does it look like for us to be hospitable and how does
that extend beyond our immediatefamily?
(15:05):
Like maybe challenge some of ourlisteners to think in that way.
And then before we wrap up, I know, you know, we start
thinking about taking a break during the holidays, but we're
going to get back to schooling. We're going to get back to
homeschooling. So I'd like to pick your brain
on how we might consider while we're taking a break, how we
move away from frustrating our kids in the way that we educate
(15:27):
them, maybe hint, hint, deal with their smarts.
So if we could do that kind of like tie that in a little bit,
it'd be great. But we'll grab this break first.
Have you tried CTC Math yet withyour child?
Here's a testimonial from another happy homeschool mom.
Amber said. I'm absolutely thrilled with CTC
Math. It's a rare find that I've used
(15:49):
with my children for more than five years now.
I have six children using CTC Math and each child has found it
easy to navigate and very applicable.
Thank you so much for all that you are doing and providing
quality math lessons for my children.
If you're looking for a great online math program, visit
ctcmath.com. That's ctcmath.com.
(16:11):
Join Apologia for the HomeschoolBoot Camp, a free video series
that provides practical guidanceand wisdom from experienced
homeschool parents. You'll discover how to equip
your family for academic, social, and spiritual success.
Plus, you'll discover how to build deeper and stronger family
relationships. Homeschool Boot Camp covers how
to break free from the public school mindset, daily planning,
(16:33):
supporting students with learning challenges,
homeschooling as a working parent, navigating the high
school years, and much more. Find
thisincrediblefreehomeschoolresource@apologia.com/bootcamp.And we're back with Doctor Kathy
Cook. Dr. Kathy, it's always such a
joy to talk with you. We're talking about traditions,
and we're talking about how maybe we establish and expand
(16:57):
some of our family traditions. One of the things that I see in
Scripture is that hospitality isa gift and that you see the
early church gathering together and there's a unity, there's a
cohesiveness in the body of Christ.
And it's not just blood relatives, right, That we are
extending ourselves to one another.
What do you think that does for kids who see their parents like
(17:19):
really living out that aspect ofGod's Word?
Yeah, I love that. I, I think we live with I, I
don't know, Mickey, I think we are some of the most selfish
self-centered people who have ever walked the earth.
Now, I don't know for sure. I didn't didn't live at any
other time in history. But the phones as an example,
phones have caused us to be selflike selfie self focused.
(17:43):
We're looking down at our devices.
We answer the phone even only ifwe're in the mood.
But back in the day, I had to answer the phone.
We did not even have an answering machine.
You know, when I was young, you know, we can auto correct and
Photoshop out of our pictures the people who we wish weren't
there. I mean, we can develop a very
self focused, selfish and self-centered existence.
So when we watch our parents invite new friends over, maybe
(18:08):
there's a new family from churchwho doesn't have a big family
and we don't want, you know, a mom and a dad and a 2 year old
to be alone. And we invite them over and the
kid is like, I don't even know them.
Well, you're going to find out about them, you know, so what's
to teach? It teaches that others matter
more than we do, and that is biblical times 2 to be other
centered and to get our eyes offof our self.
(18:29):
And, you know, if we invite somebody over who has a need,
then it's even more so going to happen.
If they have some unusual circumstances, maybe maybe, you
know, somebody in the church who's grieving because a mom or
a dad just passed away and this is going to be the first, you
know, Thanksgiving for your friend without going to mom's
house. Invite that person over and let
her cry in front of you. So it shows other centeredness.
(18:51):
It shows that it's not about us.It shows generosity.
You know, when I wrote my character book parent
differently, I wanted a big, I wanted a top 12.
I had to do a Baker's dozen. I was frustrated, Mickey, I
wanted just 12. It's so nice, you know, but I
was researching the 48th that I had in the book and what what do
I believe is important? And other centeredness made the
(19:12):
list. It's actually number number six
in the order. But you know what Baker's dozen
13 is generosity. I had to include generosity in
the top 13 because the research is so clear, both biblically and
secular, if you will, of the benefits of being a generous
person. Teach your children that by
having strangers or new friends in your home.
(19:32):
Or if you go out to a restaurant, invite somebody to
join you. It's interesting to me that you
connected that to our self selfie driven world, right?
That we are, we are me, we, us, our focused.
And yet at the same time, we areoften comparing ourselves.
(19:52):
It's like, it's like, how am I focused on myself compared to
the person who's also focused onhimself or herself?
And, and sort of like the, the net gain of it is like 0, like
we're, we're not benefiting one another.
We, and, and the Bible says thatwhen we compare ourselves among
ourselves, that it's not wise. And yet this is happening and
(20:13):
it's crippling us and our kids are watching the entire time.
Totally. Let me just challenge everybody.
I mean, I'm glad people are listening today.
It's such an honor, isn't it, tobe influential for them.
You know, if at the end of the day you don't remember
conversations you've had or let's say you have a hard time
remembering someone's name or what they said, that's because
we're selfish in our listening. We're not listening to learn.
(20:35):
We're listening for our turn to talk.
Primary evidence of selfish selfcenteredness is listening for
our turn to talk. So if somebody shares with me,
I, I know someone as an example,who if, if I share with them,
they generally say, how was yourday?
And I share. They don't ask me to elaborate
on my day. They don't ask for hey, tell me
(20:56):
more. They immediately answer the same
question for themselves. They don't enter into a
conversation. It's more of an interrogation
and it's a chance for them to ultimately talk about
themselves. It's an example of being
selfish. And we all do it because we
think that we're the most important person in the room.
And when that happens, we're nothonoring, we're not favoring
(21:16):
others, we're not giving them a chance to, you know, being being
known and, and be a part of a dynamic, true give and take
conversation. And and that so we can watch for
so many things that are really damaging.
So how do we? OK, So, Doctor Kathy.
OK, you know, right? You understand.
I have another thought. OK, so how do we address that in
(21:40):
our children? OK, dealing with parents, right?
That's that's one thing. But when we see that tendency in
our children, how do we lovingly, gently, but like,
sternly address that tendency tobe selfish even in our
conversations? Man, I love that question.
We have to be stern sometimes. We absolutely do.
(22:02):
You know, I love the Book of Esther and it could have been
called Mordecai. Without Mordecai's brilliance,
Esther wouldn't have been Esther.
And we read in chapter 2 in two occasions that Mordecai
instructed Esther. It doesn't say that he gave
advice or opinion. He instructed.
And I think it's chapter 2, verse 20.
(22:22):
It's either verse 10 or 20 whereit it, he forbade her to do
something. He, she was forbidden to speak
up and tell people who she was. We can forbid kids.
That's not wrong. To have a standard of Christ
likeness to say this is inappropriate behavior and then
to say this is selfish. Here's why I say that.
(22:42):
And sweetheart, we can't allow that to happen.
That's not of the Lord. Like, let's use biblical
principles, right? So we observe.
First of all, Mickey, we have toobserve, which means again,
we're not just focused on ourselves, we're focused on the
children in the room. We put our phones down and we're
fully present and we observe andwe see.
Are they frustrated? We see how they behave.
(23:03):
And guess what? They're going to end up lonely.
If you behave in community, Selfish and self-centered, you
will not have solid friends who stick with you.
They will begin to dissipate. They will begin to walk away.
Why? Because they don't feel good in
your presence. And so when your child
complaints about my friends aren't hanging out with me or
nobody will come over, when it'smovie night and I wonder why
nobody's coming over, this is when we're really brave moms and
(23:26):
dads and we say, okay, Katie, doyou really want to know what
mommy's noticed? Are you ready?
Yes, come on. And Mickey, we.
Do it with love and we do it with power because why?
God has empowered us to raise these children and we need to
call sin sin. We need to compliment and affirm
that which is truly good and righteous to God be the glory.
And we need to walk with our kids and say, oh, sweetheart,
(23:48):
I'm disappointed. So we look for the pattern.
You know, if it happens once, you know, she had a bad day or
it was that particular person that she interacted with that
way. And maybe you saw that that
friend was really being difficult.
But if you see the pattern develop and you can call it out
and talk about why you want the child to change.
And then here's the key. You got to teach them how to
(24:08):
change. So again, I know that's your
question. How do we how do we help them
discover A and other centered perspective?
We model it, we teach it, we usescripture, we affirm them when
we're in the room and we see them carrying about another
person. We do a thumbs up.
We actually train the conversation.
My books start with the Heart has three chapters about
conversation and communication because we're so bad at it.
(24:29):
So we teach the children how to ask a follow up question.
We teach our, our, our kids to say, hey, tell me more.
That's I don't know much about that.
Rather than being afraid, they don't know much about it and
they don't want to look foolish.Just say, hey, I, I've never
tried that. Tell me more.
Yeah, I love, I love the balancethat you just brought to your
response, Doctor Kathy, because what I heard you say is that we
(24:50):
want to identify this sin because that's what we're
talking about. When when you're missing the
mark, we're talking about sin, right.
So we want to identify it and wedon't want to make excuses.
I think sometimes parents can make excuses for bad behavior.
And it starts very early. Oh, he didn't get a nap.
And that may be true, but also maybe he's just being rotten.
Like maybe we need to just, you know, like maybe he needs a nap,
(25:12):
but also maybe there's a little character issue there that we've
got to be willing to deal with. But I love that you are bringing
balance to this because while wedon't want to just address that
issue, we do want the balance ofunderstanding.
OK, you know what that that's not, I don't see that in your
character often. And so there may be something
else going on. I want to address that.
(25:34):
But if that's not true, then youknow, we want to make sure that
we we identify those character issues and not make make excuses
for our kids. Exactly.
And we see, you know what's the why behind the what?
Like why is a child being selfish or self-centered?
Why are you ignoring people in the room and looking at your
phone so often? What's the why?
(25:55):
Are they fearful? Are they insecure because we
haven't taught them? Are they competing unbeknownst
to them? Are they competing with that
person so they don't feel like they measure up so therefore
they'd rather ignore then find out for sure that they can't
measure up. So if we can determine based on
the pattern why we think our children are behaving this way,
(26:16):
then that's what we have to dealwith.
Because you and I know beliefs cause behavior, what I believe
will show up in how I behave. So it's not just dealing with,
you know, why were you so selfish?
Which they might not have even known that that's what they were
being. We're terrible with vocabulary,
but we examine and we think, OK,how has she been behaving
(26:36):
lately? And then what might be going on
there? And we challenge her to to
figure it out with conversation with us.
And I, I, I do, I want to squeeze this and I know we're
running out of time here, but you know, as we come out of the
holidays, we, I don't mean to make it sound like, you know,
we've got to return to educationand we've got to return to
sitting at that table and doing algebra or, you know, algebra 2
(27:00):
like it's, it's coming back, you're eating Turkey, but
algebra's coming back. How can we just sort of like
briefly, how can we get to a place in educating our kids that
we don't frustrate them? And how can we start thinking
about that right now? Yeah, a fair question.
You know, I would, I would actually say, Mickey, that, you
(27:20):
know, one advantage of homeschooling is that you'd
never really stop. Like you might stop algebras at
1:00, get your book, totally getthat.
But what you and I know is that everything that you have done on
break is learning. And that's the power of this
homeschool model. So as your child helped you
measure the ingredients for, youknow, the pumpkin pie or
whatever that was math. You don't have to write it down
on a playbook if you don't want to.
(27:41):
But first of all, I would say, don't think that you stopped.
And now, oh, we have to start inin a formal sense.
Yes you do, but in an informal sense, no you don't, if that
makes sense. Now, we frustrate our kids when
we don't train and teach them. And we're all individuals, so
some of us are word smart, we think with words, and some of us
are logic smart and we think with questions.
We'd love it when things make sense.
We want things to be fair and just.
(28:03):
If you have that kind of a kid, teaching phonics will be hell on
earth to them because all the rules don't work.
You know, the E at the end of the word doesn't always make the
first vow along. So just be aware of that.
They're not stupid and you're not a bad teacher of phonics.
Their brain struggles with things that are illogical
because God made them to be logic smart.
The more we know our kids and this model of intelligences that
(28:25):
I've written about, the better. And then we got picture smart
kids who are creative with theireyes and they see in their head
and they see on paper and they need art.
Art is a legitimate part of our homeschooling.
And in fact, if I were teaching a child who did not want to come
back to school right, like we had this one week break or
whatever for Thanksgiving and they really don't want Monday
morning to happen, and this kid loves art.
I would start with art. Even if you typically start with
(28:46):
spelling, writing, and reading, I wouldn't on the first day
back. I would let them draw their best
memory of their Thanksgiving break with three colors only and
then write 2 sentences that are about the picture.
But I wouldn't start with major writing if they don't like to
write on the first day back music.
Smart kids love rhythms and melodies and you can interview
them about the music that was sung or not sung this
(29:07):
Thanksgiving break that they wish they would have heard.
And body. Smart kids think with movement
and touch. So they need rocking chairs and
beanbag chairs and they should be allowed to walk on the patio
as they're studying their spelling words and and that's
that can be hard for some people, but it's so profitable.
Nature smart kids think with patterns AB and AD and a six and
a nine is a pattern. So is the Bluebird and the blue
(29:28):
Jay. And they they're going to do
best outside on the patio. Let let them be on their swing
set body, smart nature, smart kids, let them swing as they're
rehearsing the poem that they'regoing to memorize to share on
Friday at the nursing home wheregrandma and grandpa live.
And then people, smart kids lovebeing with people.
So if your school day isolates them, they're going to die on
the vine, You know, if they're kind of forced into the quiet
(29:49):
bedroom. If we have a brain that thinks
with people, we actually do bestwith people, even if we don't
talk to them. There's something about the
energy of being in the room. So let them hang with you in the
kitchen when you're Browning theground beef for the dinner that
you're going to make later that day.
And then self smart, self smart,quiet, peace, privacy, space,
(30:09):
alone time, personal revelation,getting choices empowers them.
So smart kids can be harder to teach because they love and like
and need to be alone, but you can't afford for that.
You need to have them answer your question.
So that's a quick, really quick look at the age smarts that I've
been privileged to teach even atyour conferences, which I've
(30:30):
loved doing. And I hope that even that brief,
overdue overview might motivate somebody to teach differently
each child as they have the energy to do so.
That's so good. OK, So Doctor Kathy, if our
listeners were going to go to celebratekids.com, OK, And they
were going to click on that tab that says resources, what book?
And I know this is hard, right? I'm asking you to pick a book
(30:53):
that you would recommend that our listeners start with.
Like where should they start with your resources?
Oh, that's so kind of you. Well, 8th Grade Smarts is the
book that I just did that reallyquick overview.
So if you haven't read 8th GradeSmarts, it is my best seller.
It is what homeschool Penguins have thanked me for for years.
And I would certainly recommend that 8th Grade Smarts.
(31:14):
And then my book Parent Differently is the book about
character. So this idea of being hospitable
and being generous and being kind and being other centered,
if people are intrigued by that,you know, I think teaching
character is more important thanteaching spelling.
And, and I, and I will say that and probably until the day I
die, not that spelling's irrelevant, but character
Trump's at all because who I am causes me to do what I do.
(31:37):
So that book is called Parent Differently.
I love you, Doctor. Kathy, you're such a love you.
You are a blessing to whole schooling families and families
in general. So thank you so much for the
work that you put in. I know that you guys also have
courses available at your website, and our listeners will
be able to find that when they go to celebrate kids.com,
(31:58):
celebratekids.com. If the Schoolhouse Rock podcast
audience is interested in learning more about me, then you
can check out our website at cultureproof.net.
We host a podcast and events andcreate resources to help
families understand what's goingon in the culture specifically
and to respond biblically. So that is Culture proof.net.
(32:20):
That wraps up my time with you, Doctor Kathy.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation.
Want to encourage our audience to join us next week for an
incredible guest on the Schoolhouse Rocked podcast?
Until then, God bless you. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki and I'm Will and
(32:42):
we're the Co host of the CultureProof podcast.
We want to invite you to join usevery week as we discuss what's
happening in the world and then filter those happenings through
a decidedly biblical lens. There are many questions,
especially when we see what's happening in our culture today,
but the answers are found withinthe Word of God, so that's where
we want to look. Amen.
When we resist those cultural trends that rival the truth.
(33:05):
We remain culture proof. I'm going to blow it up from the
beginning. You're going to thank this
later. I don't believe in balance.
I think balance, in the words ofSolomon, is like chasing after
the wind. And I think it's been a huge
problem for moms. It's kind of like this idea of
being behind. I don't believe in being behind.
(33:27):
You are where you are, and the enemy wants to take you captive
where you are, whether you're ahead or behind.
But when it comes to balance, I think it's related and that we
get this in our head that everything's got to be even.
And I'm just going to tell you, it doesn't have to be.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.