November 7, 2025 • 35 mins
Are you a homeschool parent wondering how to meet the deeper needs of your children? On this episode of the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast, Meeke Addison welcomes Dr. Kathy Koch, a nationally recognized expert in childhood development and founder of Celebrate Kids. Learn why kids crave being taught, not just told, and how intentional parenting impacts your child’s confidence, character, and faith. This episode is packed with practical advice for prioritizing character education, building security and belonging, and raising kids who love Jesus. Subscribe for more Christian homeschool inspiration, and visit us at SchoolhouseRocked.com for free homeschooling resources and encouragement!
Recommended Resources:
8 Great Smarts: Discover and Nurture Your Child's Intelligences, Dr. Kathy Koch
Parent Differently: Raise Kids with Biblical Character that Changes Culture, Dr. Kathy – Koch
More books from Dr. Kathy Koch
More from Meeke Addison on the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast
We want to hear from you! Is there a guest you’d like to hear from or a subject you’d like us to discuss on the podcast? How can we be praying for you? Talk to us here.
Sponsors:
Apologia is a Christ-centered, award-winning homeschool curriculum provider. Our mission is to help homeschooling students and families learn, live, and defend the Christian faith through our print and digital curriculum and online classes.
BJU Press Homeschool is dedicated to providing homeschool families with academically strong curriculum rooted in a biblical worldview. They offer a complete curriculum from preschool through 12th grade, available in both traditional textbooks and video courses. By teaching through the lens of Christ’s power, they help students view the world through the transformative story of God’s creation
CTCMath specializes in providing online video tutorials that take a multi-sensory approach to learning. Creative graphics and animation, synchronized with the friendly voice of internationally acclaimed teacher, Pat Murray, make learning math easy and effective. Start your free trial today.
The Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast is a member of the Biblical Family Network. Our mission is to support and encourage the family by providing the very best podcasts on family, discipleship, marriage, parenting, worldview, culture, and education, all from a Biblical perspective. Visit the website for more great shows, like the Thinking Dad, Culture Proof, The Nicki Truesdell Podcast, Homeschool Insights, and Made2Homeschool.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Put the books on the shelf and teach them who they are.
Who I am is more important than what I do.
The same thing is true for your kids.
So are you affecting who they are?
This is their their core need for identity.
That answers to the question, who am I?
I mean, it'll rock their world in either a horrible way or in a
wonderful way. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse
(00:20):
Rock podcast. It's great to be with you.
I'm Miki and I'm your host this week.
I've got an incredible guest foryou.
And before we get into our content, we want to thank our
sponsor and that is Apologia. If you're looking for a trusted
homeschool resource to support your child's education with a
strong biblical worldview, you'll find it through Apologia.
(00:44):
For decades, Apologia has been ago to source for Christian
homeschool curriculum designed to educate, inspire and build a
lifelong love of learning. They know that homeschooling
isn't 1 size fits all. That's why they offer a growing
catalog of resources to fit yourfamily's needs.
Dive into online self-paced courses, join live classes led
(01:07):
by incredible instructors, or stream engaging video lessons
anytime, anywhere. They even offer audiobooks
perfect for learning on the go. Apologia will partner with you
and your family educational journey.
Explore the full lineup of Apologia homeschool resources
today at apologia.com and discover how they can help your
(01:29):
family thrive. Apologia equipping families,
inspiring learners, and teachingtruth.
And Speaking of teaching truth, we're going to get right into
talking with probably, I have tosay, one of my favorite people
in the world to talk to. And I feel like it's such a
natural thing just because of the wisdom that comes from her.
(01:51):
And I think that if you are listening to this podcast and
you've been homeschooling for any length of time, maybe you've
attended only one homeschool conference, you probably have
heard from her doctor. Kathy Cook is the founder and
president of Celebrate Kids. She is a premier expert in her
field on kids and helping parents and educators understand
(02:13):
the unique needs of kids and then responding to those needs.
And in fact, that's some of whatwe're going to get into today.
She is an author. She is a demanded speaker.
I know this from personal experience and she's just a
delight to talk to. I consider her a personal
friend. Doctor Kathy, thank you so much
for joining me on the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
(02:33):
How are you? I'm fabulous and it's so good to
be with you. Thank you for that generosity.
And let me just quickly say thatI'm a fan of apology as well.
I know personally the gal that does the teaching of the science
where she travels the world for these most exciting and
incredible opportunities to learn.
And the students who are part ofapology, I like, no joke,
(02:54):
they're, they get it's true wisdom and it's from a variety
of perspectives, but I'm a huge fan, especially of their science
program. Oh, that is fantastic, Doctor
Kathy, you have, you have your finger on the pulse of like the
needs of kids, right? And how they learn and what
serves them well. And that's one of the things
that I wanted to talk to you about today because I think that
there are some real needs that our kids have, especially when
(03:17):
we are homeschooling them, that you think that these needs are
obvious. But in your work and in your
experience with children, you have discovered that the kids
have needs that maybe parents are overlooking.
So I would describe these as like the unseen needs of kids.
Can we kind of dive into that sort of deep in talking about
(03:39):
what our kids need that maybe weare unaware of?
Yeah, I'd, I'd love to do that. I'm going to answer it in a way
that might surprise you before we you're you do respect the
program. I teach on the needs, security,
identity, belonging, purpose, competence.
We can absolutely go there. Here's what I want to say to
start with though, this is so powerful to home educate our
(04:01):
kids because they have a need tobe taught.
They have a need to be taught like to be taught right, right
from wrong, to be taught grace and truth, to be taught to
discern who's for them, who's against them, to discern truth
and lie to be, to discern good, better and best like to discern
(04:24):
who they are, which is the identity question of the day.
But the reason I'm starting withthat is children have told me
historically for years and years, Mickey.
They'll say things like parents tell me what they do.
The parents tell me what to do. They yell at me when I don't do
it. And I don't know what they mean
by yell. I don't.
I don't necessarily need to know, but their perception is
that we tell them what to do. We yell at them when they don't
(04:47):
do it. And then the children say,
Doctor Kathy, I wish they would teach me how.
So I want to say that a need they have is to learn.
And I think sometimes, you know,we're thinking, well, this is
easy. Like we look at a math paper.
Well, this is a no brainer. Like it's very similar to
yesterday. And you know what?
If you're the homeschool mom wholoves math and you're raising
(05:07):
the kid who doesn't like that's conflict, right?
You know, you're, you know, turnthe book to page 72 and the kid
was like, I can't do it. And the mom was like, what do
you mean you can't do it? You haven't even looked at it
yet. Like, I totally respect that
they have to be taught. And this is the advantage of
homeschooling because you're teaching one-on-one or one in a
small group versus the school across the that has usually too
(05:28):
many kids per, you know, per teacher.
So let me just say to all of youwho teach, who explain, who
define, who demonstrate, who model, like praise the Lord that
you're there for your kids because they have a need to be
taught and not just told. You know, I think sometimes when
parents hear you say that, as I have heard you say that and in
(05:51):
fact, this is this what you justsaid is something that I think
was like part of my first introduction to you.
Like I, I heard you say this in a presentation and I immediately
started like self examining and going, wait a minute, do I do I
do that? Am I, am I guilty of that?
And honestly, I found, yes, I am, I am, here's what I'm guilty
(06:12):
of. And I want you to kind of unpack
this a little bit as well, Doctor Kathy.
I'm guilty of making assumptions, right?
And then treating those assumptions as if they have been
like thoroughly explained directives, right?
Like I assume that, OK, you've seen me do this.
And so now if I just ask you to do it like you, that that's
enough. And maybe for some kids it is,
(06:34):
right? There are kids who just kind of
like they can pick up on things And but for kids that that it's
not true for them that they learn in that way, it can be
very frustrating to parent them according to these is like
unidentified assumptions. How frustrating in your
experience with children, how frustrating is that for them?
(06:55):
Oh, it's very frustrating, Mickey, because they want to be
known and they want to be seen and respected.
And you know, again, one of the powers of education at home can
be individualization where we'renot teaching, you know, 24/7
year olds, we're teaching 17 year old who's my 7 year old.
I think that one, one hard thingfor homeschooling, homeschool
(07:17):
teachers, the parent grandparents who helps out
whatever, must be remembering. Now, have I already said this?
You know, like, you've got six kids.
You've you've taught this story,you've taught this math lesson.
You've shared the science experiment before.
And, you know, maybe, you know, that the younger kid was
watching when you did it with the older kids.
So you're assuming certainly Bethany already understands
this, you know, or we can legitimately forget.
(07:39):
Seriously, have I already said this?
So, yeah, there there's assumptions that we make about,
you know, your other brother love this.
You're going to love this too, which is disrespectful.
Like, you can hope for that, youknow?
So yeah, assumptions, legitimateforgetting, right?
So how like do we keep notes in our teaching journal or however
it is that you manage your your space and your time and your
talent as an educator? And do we know for sure?
(08:02):
Yeah, I love that you started with kids have the need to be
taught and I think it like as a homeschool mom, right, like we
this this kind of affirms us andand reaffirms why we're doing
what we're doing. Maybe the low hanging fruit, and
I could be wrong about this Doctor Kathy, of course, I'd
love to hear from you on that. But the low hanging fruit may
be, you know, the basics of education.
(08:24):
OK, we're going to teach them toread, we're going to teach them
to write. We're going to teach them to
think critically. But what about teaching them to
have those strong character traits that that you kind of
alluded to, right? That is the heavy lifting of
homeschooling that I think sometimes when we focus on just
getting the subjects out of the way, those things can be very
(08:45):
easily neglected because it's like I'm exhausted.
I just, I fought with you over algebra and I didn't really like
your attitude when I asked you to unload the dishwasher.
But you know what? After algebra, I'm just going to
let it go. Like you, I don't like that
attitude, but I'm not going to address it.
How do we as parents, in some ways do a disservice to our kids
(09:06):
when we, you know, wait one areaof instruction over the other
when both are necessary? It's a challenge, right?
I love the question. You know, it is a disservice.
And I would go on record anywhere I went to say that
character first, a Bible first. Like I'm, I know that we're
teaching, you know, math facts and math, you know, math problem
(09:27):
solving, and we're teaching science, vocabulary and
scientific reason. Like these things matter.
Certainly reading and writing and there's so much.
But here's the thing, you know, who I am is more important than
what I do. The same thing is true for your
kids. So are you affecting who they
are? This is their their core need
for identity. The answer to the question, who
am I? I mean, it'll, it'll rock their
(09:48):
world in either a horrible way or in a wonderful way.
The liar is loud destroying identity of this younger
generation, telling them that ifthey're a boy, they they can be
and probably could have been andmaybe should have been a girl.
And, and so many things kids arelearning out in the culture
that, you know, being bright is necessary and, you know,
everybody's stupid in some way. It's so damaging to the soul.
(10:10):
So character. Absolutely.
I, I just said at a convention for homeschoolers that I just
went to put the books on the shelf and teach them who they
are. Are they diligent, persevering,
grateful and joyful? Are they resilient?
Are they good? Are they generous?
Are they kind and patient, etcetera, etcetera.
And what's it's easy to skip that, right?
Because it's not like there's notest, like you maybe haven't
(10:32):
purchased a curriculum. Like if you purchased apologia,
you know, you're going to go lesson 1, lesson 2, lesson 3 and
you're going to enjoy it. You're going to be prepared.
You're going to have all your, you know, tools and
manipulatives ready and that's great.
You should. And yet what about what some
people call the soft skills thatI think are actually like major?
What are the values you have like Mickey, why are you the
(10:53):
mother of those children and whodo you want them to become and
and character And again, a Christ follower, A dedicated
reader of Scripture. So many worships with integrity
and truth. And then they do these things by
watching us, but also by being taught.
Why does God want us to worship with integrity and truth?
And why would he want us to learn to read so that we can
(11:16):
read Scripture And after we've read a verse and we had the aha
and we're excited to know this. Do we tell anybody or do we keep
it to ourselves? You know, that's that's not
appropriate. Let's be generous with our
ideas. I go on and on.
And I love that you brought up character.
I think, I think it Trump's so many things.
And it's we're, we neglect it. Some of us might be afraid to
teach it. Like seriously, if you're
(11:37):
teaching generosity then you better be generous in front of
your kids. That's right.
That's. Right.
You know, if you're teaching thebeauty of resilience and
starting over, well, then you better not sit down in your
valley and complain all day about some experience you had at
the red light or at the grocery store, at the doctor's office
because your kids are learning. You know, Mommy isn't who she
says I should be, so should I believe who she is or what she
(11:59):
says? So I think teaching things like
character and motivational desires, those things are
challenging for us because we have to step up to the plate and
be that. Yeah, you just said something
that I want to back up to and and I want to kind of stay there
just for a little bit. You asked a question, you know,
why are you the parent of those children?
(12:19):
And I think asking ourselves that question in the context of
educating and discipling our kids at home has profound
consequences, or maybe I should say has a profound impact on how
we educate our kids. I think I think sometimes we are
educating our kids because we want them to turn out like the
(12:42):
kids of another family. And we are not taking into
account that the Lord has entrusted our kids to us because
he wants the effects of what it is to grow up in our home with
the convictions that we have, even the personality traits that
we have and the character that'sbeen built in us over time.
(13:02):
But that's not enough for us. Maybe sometimes we're
dissatisfied. And so we look at this family
and we say, you know, that's a family of doctors or that's a,
that's a family of teachers. And, and I, I, I want my kids to
have that. When maybe you are a family of
those who serve in the military,maybe that's a legacy that the
(13:23):
Lord has entrusted to your family.
And, and there's a unique position that the Lord places
you in that confirms this is something that the Lord has
burdened your heart with. How do we as parents?
So this is kind of like A2 fold question, right?
How do we as parents walk in like gratefulness for who we are
(13:43):
and the fact that the Lord didn't make a mistake on us or
our family makeup, and then passthat on to our kids as we seek
to build character in them? Yeah, I love the way you reason.
It's a big question, isn't it? Progress over perfection,
believing in the believing of your believing that God did not
make a mistake. You know, no one prays for a kid
(14:05):
on the spectrum. No one prays for a kid with
cerebral palsy or epilepsy or even ADD and ADHD.
You pray for healthy kids. And what if we prayed that we
would receive while the childrenGod's chosen for us?
You know anybody who's listeningwho has questioned God's
goodness toward them for giving them another girl when they
(14:27):
wanted a boy? Like I get that frustration.
I've, I've wept with parents whoare confused.
But let me just remind everyone what you know to be true.
Mickey is God ordains the familyand he ordained the family
before he ordained the church. And we're perfectly imperfect
for each other. We're perfectly imperfect
parents of perfectly imperfect children.
And we have to know that in our knowing right and not resent and
(14:50):
not become bitter and not be madat God, if you will.
So as you can, we love them welland accept them well.
And do we, do we have appropriate standards for each
kid, right. Like again, we don't, we don't
parent the herd and we don't educate the herd.
We educate the individual. And again, do we know who they
are so that we can do that? That's what comes to mind as you
(15:12):
were asking the question. You know, we got to grab a quick
break here, but I kind of want to set up where I'd like to go
on the other side of it because you mentioned, you know, not
choosing the kids that the Lord entrust to us.
So I, I want to talk about the character shaping that comes out
of that fact for, for parents. It's one of the things that I
(15:33):
appreciate about your organization and about your
ministry is not only do you observe like kid dynamics,
right, but you, you observe adult dynamics as well.
And I feel like as, as you've written over the years, it's
been such a challenge to parents.
I want to grab a quick break. And then on the other side of
that, Doctor Kathy, I want to come back and I want to talk
(15:55):
about how God shapes our character as parents through the
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(16:16):
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Our guest is Doctor Kathy Cook, the founder and president of
(17:22):
Celebrate Kids, which probably we need to add to that, and
parents and teachers, everybody who would, I would say, be in
the category of being a stakeholder in the lives of
children. And I'm curious to know, Doctor
Cathy, as we went to the break, you know, just the set up that
God shapes our character in so many ways.
And one of the ways that he shapes our character as parents,
(17:43):
as adults, right, is by the kidsthat he allows into our life.
How do you see that happening? Well, I think it's beautiful.
I think God knows who we are andhe gives us the kids that we are
supposed to have. You know, if somebody is maybe
pessimistic, I bet they get a joyful Energizer Bunny kind of a
(18:05):
kid, right? Because God has a sense of humor
and wants the child to RIP off on the parent.
You know, I think if you have a tendency maybe toward
perfection, you maybe have a kidwho can't be perfect this side
of heaven. And it might be very frustrating
and very concerning. And then one day you wake up and
you go, OK, wait, I get it. I'm not perfect either.
And I need to cut my kids some slack and be full of grace and
(18:26):
mercy, not just truth. So I do think that we become who
we're supposed to be by God's grace through a variety of
circumstances. You know, if I, if I can answer
it a little bit differently, I, I know you asked the question
about parents and, and how children affect parents, but let
let me remind everybody that we are very affected by parents and
grandparents. Mickey, I was raised by great
(18:48):
parents, not in, we were raised in church, not by believers.
My parents came to faith in Christ very late in life, My dad
right before he died. So keep praying for your
parents. You'll just never know what it
is that's going to take them over the threshold.
My grandfather was mayor of my city growing up.
So my mom's dad was our mayor and my grandma and grandpa lived
Kitty corner behind us. My dad cut a hole in the fence.
(19:09):
We were with our grandparents, they were with us.
We were very close. I lived only four blocks from my
other grandparents. I went to school with cousins
and church with cousins. I come from a very mature multi
generational family and to God be the glory Christ entered in.
And I can say a biblically solidfamily by the time that my
elders passed away. But it's interesting to look
(19:30):
back. My grandfather was mayor.
His character mattered greatly and so did ours.
We were watched by the media andwe were raised to understand
that we were part of the Meyer clan.
So my last name is Cook, my dad,you know, my mom here, my dad,
my mom's maiden name is Meyer. His, her dad, mayor, mayor, we
were the mayor clan. And we would be told, you know,
(19:52):
we would go out and pound in, you know, election signs.
We would go and sit in the frontrow of the city chambers during
different messages wearing a little corsage and, and our mom
and dad and our grandparents be like, now people are watching
you. And it wasn't threatening like,
but they, they, we, they wanted us to know that we represented
them and not just God. Like back then, it wouldn't have
been you representing God. They didn't know God.
(20:13):
I didn't know God. I just heard about him every
once in awhile in church. That's a whole other story.
But you know, we rub off on eachother, right?
So the point of all that is thatmy brother and I, my 4 cousins,
we learned that we were not justrepresenting ourselves.
That character counts because it's not just about us.
We were taught to respect others.
We were taught to be an example of goodness.
(20:34):
We were taught that generation, generational wisdom is passed
down the family tree and up the family tree.
It, it, it matters, right? I remember sitting at the dining
room table when my grandfather was discussing his platform.
He ran for re election and and easily won the second term as
mayor. I sat there and listened to my
(20:54):
grandfather talk with his wife and my dad and my uncle who were
the campaign chairman about how to word something.
So now we hear all about platforms and we have all these
wordsmithing politicians out there.
I was I was, I was raised with one and and so what's matter?
So because I was raised by somebody that had words that
matter. He's the one who said, Kathy,
(21:16):
use all the words very well. You know, that's that's my
background. Back in the old office, there
was a picture of my grandfather giving a speech.
My desk. I am my grandfather's
granddaughter and he was my grandfather.
So he was watching me. I don't know if this is making
sense. It is.
It's both directions, right? And let me if you don't, if you
want your kid to be a certain way, be that.
(21:37):
And they may want you to be a certain way.
Watch how they're reacting and how they're behaving.
You know, I, I, several things come to mind as you're speaking,
right and thinking about how theLord, because one of the things
you just said is that the Lord will, you know, in the design
and the makeup of our kids, he is shaping something in US.
And, and you see that, you know,across the generations, as you
(21:58):
just alluded to with like your grandparents, right?
And I think about my kids. And as you said, you know, we
have 6 kids and our oldest, she is, praise the Lord, you know,
she was our test case, right? Like the the first baby.
You can't believe that they're letting you bring this child
home. And you know, I mean, it's, it's
a big deal, right? But here she is now as we
prepare to launch her. And I think back over the years
(22:21):
of our homeschooling journey, Doctor Kathy, and I'm just going
to, you know, she is so different from me and yet very
similar, right? We have same type of extrovert
personality. We, we love people.
We also like to be alone. I think there's like a, you
know, misconception about extroverts, but she learns
differently. And that was such a challenge
(22:41):
for me over the years. And here's what I what I
realized. And I never would have admitted
it in real time because I don't even think I knew that about
myself. But I, I thought she was to be
just like me, which meant she was to learn the way I learned
and she was to enjoy the things academically that I enjoy,
right? Because we're so similar.
(23:03):
And here we are. Fast forward, she is 18 years
old. And one of the things that the
Lord showed me and I, man, I hate that it took so long,
right, is that he has uniquely designed her to be who she is.
And the path that he has for heris according to his wisdom, not
mine, right? And he has used her to actually
humble me, right? In many ways, like to show me,
(23:26):
hey, that's pride, right? It's it's pride that you want
her to be able to rattle off facts that you want her like she
can do things that you can't do.And she does those things well,
because I designed her to do it.Here's what I'm driving at.
Our kids are made in the image of God.
And you said this earlier. And so I kind of want to, you
know, tease it out so that you can kind of speak to it.
(23:47):
Our kids are made in the image of God, not our image, right?
And he has a unique call for them to image him in the world.
That can be difficult for parents.
So especially we don't want to say it, but when we like us,
when we think that we we think we think we're pretty good, you
know what I mean? Talk a little bit about that
Doctor Kathy. Yeah.
(24:09):
No, I mean, like, I like to say to young people, like, celebrate
this reality that God chose to make you.
He chose to make you you and he chose to make you in his image.
Like I hate grasshoppers. I think they're disgusting.
He could have made us in the image of a grasshopper, you
know, but he didn't. And and what, what does it mean
to be made in the image of God? Well, we're not God.
(24:30):
We can't become God. To God be the glory.
That's the scary proposition. However, we can own his
character. So when we talk about the image
of God, he's faithful and dependable and he is resilient
and he loves unconditionally andhis wisdom surpasses all you
know. So again, do we know who he is?
(24:51):
So we read the scripture to findout more about God, and by doing
that, we actually learn about ourselves.
And so when you see a child who's maybe apathetic and isn't
finishing well, right, like how many of us like we, we've got
good efforts for about 24 hours,like on an assignment.
We're kind of excited we get to,you know, do this research and,
and then the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th day, you know, the effort
(25:13):
wanes. So can we talk about being
diligent effort over time and being persevering effort in
spite of difficulty. Jesus was both good heavens and
God was God was and is long-suffering toward us.
So can we do do we say it to those kids?
Hey now, I thought you wanted tobecome more like Christ.
You know, we've read about the verses about, you know, becoming
(25:35):
like Christ, walking in his footsteps, etcetera.
Be perfect as your father in heaven, you know, as as Jesus as
perfect. What's that mean?
Well, did Jesus, can you think of a time when Jesus was
apathetic? You know, can you think of a
time when Jesus just checked outlike he was done for the day he
went all the way to the cross. Come on, you know, you get it on
(25:57):
AU turn at any time. So I think those are the
conversations to have and when you see a child being patient
with a grandmother who walks slowly or kind to someone they
don't know, which is different from being kind to someone they
do know when you see them image God, let's let's call that out
man, Jesus looks good in you. Well, what's that mean mommy?
(26:18):
Well, you just put Jesus on display because you were kind
and thoughtful, just as Jesus is.
I'm so proud of you. That's good.
That's what I would love us to do more.
Yeah, no, that's great. You know, I so here, here's my,
as we wrap up the end or come tothe end of this podcast episode,
I, I'm wondering if as, as parents, and I hate that we are,
(26:39):
we tend to be box checkers, right?
Like we're, we're, and I know you experienced this as you
teach breakout sessions and as you keynote, right, people have
the opportunity to speak to you.And we kind of, we're looking
for those very specific, like, OK, if I do this, right, like
these are the things that I needto do, right?
We want to check it off our box.So as we're thinking about
(27:01):
meeting the needs of our kids, it would it would, it would kill
us. It would upset us.
OK, if we get to this place where we're like, these were
needs that your kids had, but you didn't recognize them.
Like our kids are living in a time.
They're living in a culture thatfor many of us parents, it's
different than the time and the culture that we grew up in.
(27:24):
And so as a result of that, their needs are different.
So we've got the needs that we can identify and for better or
worse, Doctor Kathy, we will check our boxes.
OK, I'm doing that. I'm shaping.
I'm, you know, we don't tell lies.
I'm OK. Check.
Got it. I'm doing all these things.
Are there needs that in your experience with children and
with parents with young teens, older teens, Are there needs
(27:47):
that we are overlooking as parents that in today's culture
we can't afford to overlook those needs?
Right, It's a great question. I would say a need for security.
They all have a need for trustworthy, dependable,
responsible truth talkers in their lives.
And we don't want them to think that Siri will provide that.
(28:08):
We don't want them turning to, you know, the kid at the bus
stop if they're going off to school or the kid in a soccer
team that they that they play on.
We need to be their security. Security is the firm foundation
of everything. It's why we can trust Christ
because he's a truth talker, doesn't lie.
So do you. Do you ask to be forgiven when
you realize that you've sinned against a child?
(28:30):
Do you, you know, work to be responsible and to remember
things so that the kids aren't disappointed?
I have a high need for security.Without that, we don't know who
we are. We have an identity crisis in
our culture. A lot of people tell me, Mickey,
I think we have an identity crisis because we have a
security crisis. We have to be present to our
children, put our phones down, be in the room, you know, wake
(28:50):
them up, put them to bed, feed them, read them great
literature, take care of them, challenge them to become who
God's created them to be. And you know more about that as
a parent than a stranger would. So yes, a need for security, a
need for identity to be able to answer the question, who am I?
If I looked your name up in a dictionary, what would it say?
Do we help them identify who they are today?
(29:12):
It's too many kids living in thepast.
It's today that matters. Today causes tomorrow.
So I think that's huge, a need for belonging, a need for
commitment, a need for connection, a need for intimacy.
We have a lot of kids making tragic decisions, even in those
homeschool community. That's right because they're
desperate to be wanted and they can find people out there who
(29:32):
want them. And often it's to manipulate and
to transform them in a way that would make that group like them
more really, really dangerous. Be present to your kids.
I and pray for them. Pray that God like I can't
imagine parenting without prayer.
Pray that God would show you whothey are today and who they can
become and what their needs are.Ask God to reveal, you know, is
(29:55):
there any brokenness in my son that I need to help him feel and
process and to pray? You know, we, we don't know for
sure, but to pray God, don't letme be passive and assumptive
about this kid. Show me what I need to know.
Man, that's what one of the things I appreciate about you,
Doctor Kathy. Like there's such a discerning
response that I feel like you have with regard to these
(30:16):
matters. And, and I feel like the Lord
has entrusted to you an insight that's been a blessing for a
reason. Because even as I listen to you
talk now, right, I'm, I'm thinking, I don't know, I don't
know any parents personally who would intentionally overlook the
things that you just mentioned. But as you as you hear those
(30:37):
things being laid out, I think what happens is that most
parents go, wait a minute. You know, now that I'm hearing
it, I realize that I haven't done that.
And it's not because I don't think those things are
important. It's just that you get caught up
in the day-to-day of parenting. And honestly, I think some
parents believe that we have done the things you just said,
(31:00):
except for when we hear it expressed.
I think we go, you know, I haven't intentionally done that.
When you talk about identity, like we think we walk away
thinking we have reinforced who our children are in the Lord
that we have kind of shorn up that identity.
But then when we hear someone talk about it, we go, you know,
if I'm, I'm really being honest,I think what I've done is just
(31:23):
made some assumptions about whatthey would draw from just being
a part of this family. So what I'm taking away from
what you're saying is that we need to be intentional.
Yeah, I, I like that. And you need to be humble.
I think homeschool parents have intellectual identity first and
foremost in their mind. And I get that, you know, 2 + 2
= 4, not 5. Like you need to be concerned
with the intellectual self of the child because you're the
(31:45):
educator here. You're not sending them off, you
know, to a, a broken school. And yeah, there's the other
parts of who our kids are and spiritual ought to be #1 and so
again, do we train and teach that?
Do we coach them towards spiritual Wellness?
Do we talk more about that? We, we may think we're, we are,
but most of us would admit that we're not so intellectual.
I get why it's first, but it's not priority if you're raising
(32:07):
kids to be believers who are strong in the Lord.
We need to have conversations about those kinds of things.
So, good Doctor Kathy, you coverthis and so much in your
resources that are available at your website.
Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your, your
ministry, your organization and the resources that are available
and where they can get those resources?
(32:28):
Thanks. Thank you so much.
So our website iscelebratekids.com, you can
find our our podcast there and my books and have eight of them,
which is just exhilarating. I can't even imagine that I've
written 8 books. I'm excited.
We have online courses that you can purchase for a nominal fee
and bring into your living room and and watch those with your
children and, and be blessed by that.
(32:49):
Our passion, Miki is to help youcelebrate kids the way Jesus did
and still does. So that's that's why it's so
much fun to be on with you because I know that you and
Schoolhouse Rock believes this. The children should be our
priority. So yeah, check us out.
Celebrate kids.com. I'd love to connect with you.
It's been a pleasure to host Schoolhouse Rock this week.
Make sure that you come back andjoin us for Part 2 of our
(33:11):
conversation. Doctor Kathy and I are going to
be talking about the importance of establishing traditions in
the lives of our children. If you'd like to learn more
about me and the Culture Proof podcast, you can check out
Culture proof.net and learn a little bit more about our
ministry and what we do there. Until next time, take care.
Thanks so much for joining us today for the Schoolhouse Rocked
(33:32):
Podcast. We'd love to hear from you.
If there's a topic you'd like usto cover, reach out to us at
podcast at schoolhouserocked.com.
One last thing, if you know a friend who would be encouraged
by this podcast, please share itwith them.
Join us next week for another exciting episode of the
Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. Until then, keep pointing your
(33:53):
kids to Jesus. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki.
And I'm will. And we're the Co host of the
Culture Proof podcast. We want to invite you to join us
every week as we discuss what's happening in the world and then
filter those happenings through a decidedly biblical lens.
(34:14):
There are many questions, especially when we see what's
happening in our culture today, but the answers are found within
the Word of God, so that's wherewe want to look.
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth. We remain culture proof.
You know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
(34:34):
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's let's maintain that freedom and freedom means that I
can ignore the outside voices. We are, we are a family unit
called by God to this, this unique time and and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
We do it with love and we do it with power because why?
God has empowered us to raise these children and we need to
call sin sin. We need to compliment and affirm
(34:57):
that which is truly good and righteous to God be the glory.
And we need to walk with our kids and say, oh sweetheart, be
disappointed. And then here's the key.
You got to teach them how to change.
Put the books on the shelf and teach them who they are.
Who I am is more important than what I do.
The same thing is true for your kids.
So are you affecting who they are?
This is their their core need for identity.
That answers to the question, who am I?
I mean, it'll rock their world in either a horrible way or in a
wonderful way. Welcome back to the Schoolhouse
(00:20):
Rock podcast. It's great to be with you.
I'm Miki and I'm your host this week.
I've got an incredible guest foryou.
And before we get into our content, we want to thank our
sponsor and that is Apologia. If you're looking for a trusted
homeschool resource to support your child's education with a
strong biblical worldview, you'll find it through Apologia.
(00:44):
For decades, Apologia has been ago to source for Christian
homeschool curriculum designed to educate, inspire and build a
lifelong love of learning. They know that homeschooling
isn't 1 size fits all. That's why they offer a growing
catalog of resources to fit yourfamily's needs.
Dive into online self-paced courses, join live classes led
(01:07):
by incredible instructors, or stream engaging video lessons
anytime, anywhere. They even offer audiobooks
perfect for learning on the go. Apologia will partner with you
and your family educational journey.
Explore the full lineup of Apologia homeschool resources
today at apologia.com and discover how they can help your
(01:29):
family thrive. Apologia equipping families,
inspiring learners, and teachingtruth.
And Speaking of teaching truth, we're going to get right into
talking with probably, I have tosay, one of my favorite people
in the world to talk to. And I feel like it's such a
natural thing just because of the wisdom that comes from her.
(01:51):
And I think that if you are listening to this podcast and
you've been homeschooling for any length of time, maybe you've
attended only one homeschool conference, you probably have
heard from her doctor. Kathy Cook is the founder and
president of Celebrate Kids. She is a premier expert in her
field on kids and helping parents and educators understand
(02:13):
the unique needs of kids and then responding to those needs.
And in fact, that's some of whatwe're going to get into today.
She is an author. She is a demanded speaker.
I know this from personal experience and she's just a
delight to talk to. I consider her a personal
friend. Doctor Kathy, thank you so much
for joining me on the Schoolhouse Rock podcast.
(02:33):
How are you? I'm fabulous and it's so good to
be with you. Thank you for that generosity.
And let me just quickly say thatI'm a fan of apology as well.
I know personally the gal that does the teaching of the science
where she travels the world for these most exciting and
incredible opportunities to learn.
And the students who are part ofapology, I like, no joke,
(02:54):
they're, they get it's true wisdom and it's from a variety
of perspectives, but I'm a huge fan, especially of their science
program. Oh, that is fantastic, Doctor
Kathy, you have, you have your finger on the pulse of like the
needs of kids, right? And how they learn and what
serves them well. And that's one of the things
that I wanted to talk to you about today because I think that
there are some real needs that our kids have, especially when
(03:17):
we are homeschooling them, that you think that these needs are
obvious. But in your work and in your
experience with children, you have discovered that the kids
have needs that maybe parents are overlooking.
So I would describe these as like the unseen needs of kids.
Can we kind of dive into that sort of deep in talking about
(03:39):
what our kids need that maybe weare unaware of?
Yeah, I'd, I'd love to do that. I'm going to answer it in a way
that might surprise you before we you're you do respect the
program. I teach on the needs, security,
identity, belonging, purpose, competence.
We can absolutely go there. Here's what I want to say to
start with though, this is so powerful to home educate our
(04:01):
kids because they have a need tobe taught.
They have a need to be taught like to be taught right, right
from wrong, to be taught grace and truth, to be taught to
discern who's for them, who's against them, to discern truth
and lie to be, to discern good, better and best like to discern
(04:24):
who they are, which is the identity question of the day.
But the reason I'm starting withthat is children have told me
historically for years and years, Mickey.
They'll say things like parents tell me what they do.
The parents tell me what to do. They yell at me when I don't do
it. And I don't know what they mean
by yell. I don't.
I don't necessarily need to know, but their perception is
that we tell them what to do. We yell at them when they don't
(04:47):
do it. And then the children say,
Doctor Kathy, I wish they would teach me how.
So I want to say that a need they have is to learn.
And I think sometimes, you know,we're thinking, well, this is
easy. Like we look at a math paper.
Well, this is a no brainer. Like it's very similar to
yesterday. And you know what?
If you're the homeschool mom wholoves math and you're raising
(05:07):
the kid who doesn't like that's conflict, right?
You know, you're, you know, turnthe book to page 72 and the kid
was like, I can't do it. And the mom was like, what do
you mean you can't do it? You haven't even looked at it
yet. Like, I totally respect that
they have to be taught. And this is the advantage of
homeschooling because you're teaching one-on-one or one in a
small group versus the school across the that has usually too
(05:28):
many kids per, you know, per teacher.
So let me just say to all of youwho teach, who explain, who
define, who demonstrate, who model, like praise the Lord that
you're there for your kids because they have a need to be
taught and not just told. You know, I think sometimes when
parents hear you say that, as I have heard you say that and in
(05:51):
fact, this is this what you justsaid is something that I think
was like part of my first introduction to you.
Like I, I heard you say this in a presentation and I immediately
started like self examining and going, wait a minute, do I do I
do that? Am I, am I guilty of that?
And honestly, I found, yes, I am, I am, here's what I'm guilty
(06:12):
of. And I want you to kind of unpack
this a little bit as well, Doctor Kathy.
I'm guilty of making assumptions, right?
And then treating those assumptions as if they have been
like thoroughly explained directives, right?
Like I assume that, OK, you've seen me do this.
And so now if I just ask you to do it like you, that that's
enough. And maybe for some kids it is,
(06:34):
right? There are kids who just kind of
like they can pick up on things And but for kids that that it's
not true for them that they learn in that way, it can be
very frustrating to parent them according to these is like
unidentified assumptions. How frustrating in your
experience with children, how frustrating is that for them?
(06:55):
Oh, it's very frustrating, Mickey, because they want to be
known and they want to be seen and respected.
And you know, again, one of the powers of education at home can
be individualization where we'renot teaching, you know, 24/7
year olds, we're teaching 17 year old who's my 7 year old.
I think that one, one hard thingfor homeschooling, homeschool
(07:17):
teachers, the parent grandparents who helps out
whatever, must be remembering. Now, have I already said this?
You know, like, you've got six kids.
You've you've taught this story,you've taught this math lesson.
You've shared the science experiment before.
And, you know, maybe, you know, that the younger kid was
watching when you did it with the older kids.
So you're assuming certainly Bethany already understands
this, you know, or we can legitimately forget.
(07:39):
Seriously, have I already said this?
So, yeah, there there's assumptions that we make about,
you know, your other brother love this.
You're going to love this too, which is disrespectful.
Like, you can hope for that, youknow?
So yeah, assumptions, legitimateforgetting, right?
So how like do we keep notes in our teaching journal or however
it is that you manage your your space and your time and your
talent as an educator? And do we know for sure?
(08:02):
Yeah, I love that you started with kids have the need to be
taught and I think it like as a homeschool mom, right, like we
this this kind of affirms us andand reaffirms why we're doing
what we're doing. Maybe the low hanging fruit, and
I could be wrong about this Doctor Kathy, of course, I'd
love to hear from you on that. But the low hanging fruit may
be, you know, the basics of education.
(08:24):
OK, we're going to teach them toread, we're going to teach them
to write. We're going to teach them to
think critically. But what about teaching them to
have those strong character traits that that you kind of
alluded to, right? That is the heavy lifting of
homeschooling that I think sometimes when we focus on just
getting the subjects out of the way, those things can be very
(08:45):
easily neglected because it's like I'm exhausted.
I just, I fought with you over algebra and I didn't really like
your attitude when I asked you to unload the dishwasher.
But you know what? After algebra, I'm just going to
let it go. Like you, I don't like that
attitude, but I'm not going to address it.
How do we as parents, in some ways do a disservice to our kids
(09:06):
when we, you know, wait one areaof instruction over the other
when both are necessary? It's a challenge, right?
I love the question. You know, it is a disservice.
And I would go on record anywhere I went to say that
character first, a Bible first. Like I'm, I know that we're
teaching, you know, math facts and math, you know, math problem
(09:27):
solving, and we're teaching science, vocabulary and
scientific reason. Like these things matter.
Certainly reading and writing and there's so much.
But here's the thing, you know, who I am is more important than
what I do. The same thing is true for your
kids. So are you affecting who they
are? This is their their core need
for identity. The answer to the question, who
am I? I mean, it'll, it'll rock their
(09:48):
world in either a horrible way or in a wonderful way.
The liar is loud destroying identity of this younger
generation, telling them that ifthey're a boy, they they can be
and probably could have been andmaybe should have been a girl.
And, and so many things kids arelearning out in the culture
that, you know, being bright is necessary and, you know,
everybody's stupid in some way. It's so damaging to the soul.
(10:10):
So character. Absolutely.
I, I just said at a convention for homeschoolers that I just
went to put the books on the shelf and teach them who they
are. Are they diligent, persevering,
grateful and joyful? Are they resilient?
Are they good? Are they generous?
Are they kind and patient, etcetera, etcetera.
And what's it's easy to skip that, right?
Because it's not like there's notest, like you maybe haven't
(10:32):
purchased a curriculum. Like if you purchased apologia,
you know, you're going to go lesson 1, lesson 2, lesson 3 and
you're going to enjoy it. You're going to be prepared.
You're going to have all your, you know, tools and
manipulatives ready and that's great.
You should. And yet what about what some
people call the soft skills thatI think are actually like major?
What are the values you have like Mickey, why are you the
(10:53):
mother of those children and whodo you want them to become and
and character And again, a Christ follower, A dedicated
reader of Scripture. So many worships with integrity
and truth. And then they do these things by
watching us, but also by being taught.
Why does God want us to worship with integrity and truth?
And why would he want us to learn to read so that we can
(11:16):
read Scripture And after we've read a verse and we had the aha
and we're excited to know this. Do we tell anybody or do we keep
it to ourselves? You know, that's that's not
appropriate. Let's be generous with our
ideas. I go on and on.
And I love that you brought up character.
I think, I think it Trump's so many things.
And it's we're, we neglect it. Some of us might be afraid to
teach it. Like seriously, if you're
(11:37):
teaching generosity then you better be generous in front of
your kids. That's right.
That's. Right.
You know, if you're teaching thebeauty of resilience and
starting over, well, then you better not sit down in your
valley and complain all day about some experience you had at
the red light or at the grocery store, at the doctor's office
because your kids are learning. You know, Mommy isn't who she
says I should be, so should I believe who she is or what she
(11:59):
says? So I think teaching things like
character and motivational desires, those things are
challenging for us because we have to step up to the plate and
be that. Yeah, you just said something
that I want to back up to and and I want to kind of stay there
just for a little bit. You asked a question, you know,
why are you the parent of those children?
(12:19):
And I think asking ourselves that question in the context of
educating and discipling our kids at home has profound
consequences, or maybe I should say has a profound impact on how
we educate our kids. I think I think sometimes we are
educating our kids because we want them to turn out like the
(12:42):
kids of another family. And we are not taking into
account that the Lord has entrusted our kids to us because
he wants the effects of what it is to grow up in our home with
the convictions that we have, even the personality traits that
we have and the character that'sbeen built in us over time.
(13:02):
But that's not enough for us. Maybe sometimes we're
dissatisfied. And so we look at this family
and we say, you know, that's a family of doctors or that's a,
that's a family of teachers. And, and I, I, I want my kids to
have that. When maybe you are a family of
those who serve in the military,maybe that's a legacy that the
(13:23):
Lord has entrusted to your family.
And, and there's a unique position that the Lord places
you in that confirms this is something that the Lord has
burdened your heart with. How do we as parents?
So this is kind of like A2 fold question, right?
How do we as parents walk in like gratefulness for who we are
(13:43):
and the fact that the Lord didn't make a mistake on us or
our family makeup, and then passthat on to our kids as we seek
to build character in them? Yeah, I love the way you reason.
It's a big question, isn't it? Progress over perfection,
believing in the believing of your believing that God did not
make a mistake. You know, no one prays for a kid
(14:05):
on the spectrum. No one prays for a kid with
cerebral palsy or epilepsy or even ADD and ADHD.
You pray for healthy kids. And what if we prayed that we
would receive while the childrenGod's chosen for us?
You know anybody who's listeningwho has questioned God's
goodness toward them for giving them another girl when they
(14:27):
wanted a boy? Like I get that frustration.
I've, I've wept with parents whoare confused.
But let me just remind everyone what you know to be true.
Mickey is God ordains the familyand he ordained the family
before he ordained the church. And we're perfectly imperfect
for each other. We're perfectly imperfect
parents of perfectly imperfect children.
And we have to know that in our knowing right and not resent and
(14:50):
not become bitter and not be madat God, if you will.
So as you can, we love them welland accept them well.
And do we, do we have appropriate standards for each
kid, right. Like again, we don't, we don't
parent the herd and we don't educate the herd.
We educate the individual. And again, do we know who they
are so that we can do that? That's what comes to mind as you
(15:12):
were asking the question. You know, we got to grab a quick
break here, but I kind of want to set up where I'd like to go
on the other side of it because you mentioned, you know, not
choosing the kids that the Lord entrust to us.
So I, I want to talk about the character shaping that comes out
of that fact for, for parents. It's one of the things that I
(15:33):
appreciate about your organization and about your
ministry is not only do you observe like kid dynamics,
right, but you, you observe adult dynamics as well.
And I feel like as, as you've written over the years, it's
been such a challenge to parents.
I want to grab a quick break. And then on the other side of
that, Doctor Kathy, I want to come back and I want to talk
(15:55):
about how God shapes our character as parents through the
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(16:16):
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Our guest is Doctor Kathy Cook, the founder and president of
(17:22):
Celebrate Kids, which probably we need to add to that, and
parents and teachers, everybody who would, I would say, be in
the category of being a stakeholder in the lives of
children. And I'm curious to know, Doctor
Cathy, as we went to the break, you know, just the set up that
God shapes our character in so many ways.
And one of the ways that he shapes our character as parents,
(17:43):
as adults, right, is by the kidsthat he allows into our life.
How do you see that happening? Well, I think it's beautiful.
I think God knows who we are andhe gives us the kids that we are
supposed to have. You know, if somebody is maybe
pessimistic, I bet they get a joyful Energizer Bunny kind of a
(18:05):
kid, right? Because God has a sense of humor
and wants the child to RIP off on the parent.
You know, I think if you have a tendency maybe toward
perfection, you maybe have a kidwho can't be perfect this side
of heaven. And it might be very frustrating
and very concerning. And then one day you wake up and
you go, OK, wait, I get it. I'm not perfect either.
And I need to cut my kids some slack and be full of grace and
(18:26):
mercy, not just truth. So I do think that we become who
we're supposed to be by God's grace through a variety of
circumstances. You know, if I, if I can answer
it a little bit differently, I, I know you asked the question
about parents and, and how children affect parents, but let
let me remind everybody that we are very affected by parents and
grandparents. Mickey, I was raised by great
(18:48):
parents, not in, we were raised in church, not by believers.
My parents came to faith in Christ very late in life, My dad
right before he died. So keep praying for your
parents. You'll just never know what it
is that's going to take them over the threshold.
My grandfather was mayor of my city growing up.
So my mom's dad was our mayor and my grandma and grandpa lived
Kitty corner behind us. My dad cut a hole in the fence.
(19:09):
We were with our grandparents, they were with us.
We were very close. I lived only four blocks from my
other grandparents. I went to school with cousins
and church with cousins. I come from a very mature multi
generational family and to God be the glory Christ entered in.
And I can say a biblically solidfamily by the time that my
elders passed away. But it's interesting to look
(19:30):
back. My grandfather was mayor.
His character mattered greatly and so did ours.
We were watched by the media andwe were raised to understand
that we were part of the Meyer clan.
So my last name is Cook, my dad,you know, my mom here, my dad,
my mom's maiden name is Meyer. His, her dad, mayor, mayor, we
were the mayor clan. And we would be told, you know,
(19:52):
we would go out and pound in, you know, election signs.
We would go and sit in the frontrow of the city chambers during
different messages wearing a little corsage and, and our mom
and dad and our grandparents be like, now people are watching
you. And it wasn't threatening like,
but they, they, we, they wanted us to know that we represented
them and not just God. Like back then, it wouldn't have
been you representing God. They didn't know God.
(20:13):
I didn't know God. I just heard about him every
once in awhile in church. That's a whole other story.
But you know, we rub off on eachother, right?
So the point of all that is thatmy brother and I, my 4 cousins,
we learned that we were not justrepresenting ourselves.
That character counts because it's not just about us.
We were taught to respect others.
We were taught to be an example of goodness.
(20:34):
We were taught that generation, generational wisdom is passed
down the family tree and up the family tree.
It, it, it matters, right? I remember sitting at the dining
room table when my grandfather was discussing his platform.
He ran for re election and and easily won the second term as
mayor. I sat there and listened to my
(20:54):
grandfather talk with his wife and my dad and my uncle who were
the campaign chairman about how to word something.
So now we hear all about platforms and we have all these
wordsmithing politicians out there.
I was I was, I was raised with one and and so what's matter?
So because I was raised by somebody that had words that
matter. He's the one who said, Kathy,
(21:16):
use all the words very well. You know, that's that's my
background. Back in the old office, there
was a picture of my grandfather giving a speech.
My desk. I am my grandfather's
granddaughter and he was my grandfather.
So he was watching me. I don't know if this is making
sense. It is.
It's both directions, right? And let me if you don't, if you
want your kid to be a certain way, be that.
(21:37):
And they may want you to be a certain way.
Watch how they're reacting and how they're behaving.
You know, I, I, several things come to mind as you're speaking,
right and thinking about how theLord, because one of the things
you just said is that the Lord will, you know, in the design
and the makeup of our kids, he is shaping something in US.
And, and you see that, you know,across the generations, as you
(21:58):
just alluded to with like your grandparents, right?
And I think about my kids. And as you said, you know, we
have 6 kids and our oldest, she is, praise the Lord, you know,
she was our test case, right? Like the the first baby.
You can't believe that they're letting you bring this child
home. And you know, I mean, it's, it's
a big deal, right? But here she is now as we
prepare to launch her. And I think back over the years
(22:21):
of our homeschooling journey, Doctor Kathy, and I'm just going
to, you know, she is so different from me and yet very
similar, right? We have same type of extrovert
personality. We, we love people.
We also like to be alone. I think there's like a, you
know, misconception about extroverts, but she learns
differently. And that was such a challenge
(22:41):
for me over the years. And here's what I what I
realized. And I never would have admitted
it in real time because I don't even think I knew that about
myself. But I, I thought she was to be
just like me, which meant she was to learn the way I learned
and she was to enjoy the things academically that I enjoy,
right? Because we're so similar.
(23:03):
And here we are. Fast forward, she is 18 years
old. And one of the things that the
Lord showed me and I, man, I hate that it took so long,
right, is that he has uniquely designed her to be who she is.
And the path that he has for heris according to his wisdom, not
mine, right? And he has used her to actually
humble me, right? In many ways, like to show me,
(23:26):
hey, that's pride, right? It's it's pride that you want
her to be able to rattle off facts that you want her like she
can do things that you can't do.And she does those things well,
because I designed her to do it.Here's what I'm driving at.
Our kids are made in the image of God.
And you said this earlier. And so I kind of want to, you
know, tease it out so that you can kind of speak to it.
(23:47):
Our kids are made in the image of God, not our image, right?
And he has a unique call for them to image him in the world.
That can be difficult for parents.
So especially we don't want to say it, but when we like us,
when we think that we we think we think we're pretty good, you
know what I mean? Talk a little bit about that
Doctor Kathy. Yeah.
(24:09):
No, I mean, like, I like to say to young people, like, celebrate
this reality that God chose to make you.
He chose to make you you and he chose to make you in his image.
Like I hate grasshoppers. I think they're disgusting.
He could have made us in the image of a grasshopper, you
know, but he didn't. And and what, what does it mean
to be made in the image of God? Well, we're not God.
(24:30):
We can't become God. To God be the glory.
That's the scary proposition. However, we can own his
character. So when we talk about the image
of God, he's faithful and dependable and he is resilient
and he loves unconditionally andhis wisdom surpasses all you
know. So again, do we know who he is?
(24:51):
So we read the scripture to findout more about God, and by doing
that, we actually learn about ourselves.
And so when you see a child who's maybe apathetic and isn't
finishing well, right, like how many of us like we, we've got
good efforts for about 24 hours,like on an assignment.
We're kind of excited we get to,you know, do this research and,
and then the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th day, you know, the effort
(25:13):
wanes. So can we talk about being
diligent effort over time and being persevering effort in
spite of difficulty. Jesus was both good heavens and
God was God was and is long-suffering toward us.
So can we do do we say it to those kids?
Hey now, I thought you wanted tobecome more like Christ.
You know, we've read about the verses about, you know, becoming
(25:35):
like Christ, walking in his footsteps, etcetera.
Be perfect as your father in heaven, you know, as as Jesus as
perfect. What's that mean?
Well, did Jesus, can you think of a time when Jesus was
apathetic? You know, can you think of a
time when Jesus just checked outlike he was done for the day he
went all the way to the cross. Come on, you know, you get it on
(25:57):
AU turn at any time. So I think those are the
conversations to have and when you see a child being patient
with a grandmother who walks slowly or kind to someone they
don't know, which is different from being kind to someone they
do know when you see them image God, let's let's call that out
man, Jesus looks good in you. Well, what's that mean mommy?
(26:18):
Well, you just put Jesus on display because you were kind
and thoughtful, just as Jesus is.
I'm so proud of you. That's good.
That's what I would love us to do more.
Yeah, no, that's great. You know, I so here, here's my,
as we wrap up the end or come tothe end of this podcast episode,
I, I'm wondering if as, as parents, and I hate that we are,
(26:39):
we tend to be box checkers, right?
Like we're, we're, and I know you experienced this as you
teach breakout sessions and as you keynote, right, people have
the opportunity to speak to you.And we kind of, we're looking
for those very specific, like, OK, if I do this, right, like
these are the things that I needto do, right?
We want to check it off our box.So as we're thinking about
(27:01):
meeting the needs of our kids, it would it would, it would kill
us. It would upset us.
OK, if we get to this place where we're like, these were
needs that your kids had, but you didn't recognize them.
Like our kids are living in a time.
They're living in a culture thatfor many of us parents, it's
different than the time and the culture that we grew up in.
(27:24):
And so as a result of that, their needs are different.
So we've got the needs that we can identify and for better or
worse, Doctor Kathy, we will check our boxes.
OK, I'm doing that. I'm shaping.
I'm, you know, we don't tell lies.
I'm OK. Check.
Got it. I'm doing all these things.
Are there needs that in your experience with children and
with parents with young teens, older teens, Are there needs
(27:47):
that we are overlooking as parents that in today's culture
we can't afford to overlook those needs?
Right, It's a great question. I would say a need for security.
They all have a need for trustworthy, dependable,
responsible truth talkers in their lives.
And we don't want them to think that Siri will provide that.
(28:08):
We don't want them turning to, you know, the kid at the bus
stop if they're going off to school or the kid in a soccer
team that they that they play on.
We need to be their security. Security is the firm foundation
of everything. It's why we can trust Christ
because he's a truth talker, doesn't lie.
So do you. Do you ask to be forgiven when
you realize that you've sinned against a child?
(28:30):
Do you, you know, work to be responsible and to remember
things so that the kids aren't disappointed?
I have a high need for security.Without that, we don't know who
we are. We have an identity crisis in
our culture. A lot of people tell me, Mickey,
I think we have an identity crisis because we have a
security crisis. We have to be present to our
children, put our phones down, be in the room, you know, wake
(28:50):
them up, put them to bed, feed them, read them great
literature, take care of them, challenge them to become who
God's created them to be. And you know more about that as
a parent than a stranger would. So yes, a need for security, a
need for identity to be able to answer the question, who am I?
If I looked your name up in a dictionary, what would it say?
Do we help them identify who they are today?
(29:12):
It's too many kids living in thepast.
It's today that matters. Today causes tomorrow.
So I think that's huge, a need for belonging, a need for
commitment, a need for connection, a need for intimacy.
We have a lot of kids making tragic decisions, even in those
homeschool community. That's right because they're
desperate to be wanted and they can find people out there who
(29:32):
want them. And often it's to manipulate and
to transform them in a way that would make that group like them
more really, really dangerous. Be present to your kids.
I and pray for them. Pray that God like I can't
imagine parenting without prayer.
Pray that God would show you whothey are today and who they can
become and what their needs are.Ask God to reveal, you know, is
(29:55):
there any brokenness in my son that I need to help him feel and
process and to pray? You know, we, we don't know for
sure, but to pray God, don't letme be passive and assumptive
about this kid. Show me what I need to know.
Man, that's what one of the things I appreciate about you,
Doctor Kathy. Like there's such a discerning
response that I feel like you have with regard to these
(30:16):
matters. And, and I feel like the Lord
has entrusted to you an insight that's been a blessing for a
reason. Because even as I listen to you
talk now, right, I'm, I'm thinking, I don't know, I don't
know any parents personally who would intentionally overlook the
things that you just mentioned. But as you as you hear those
(30:37):
things being laid out, I think what happens is that most
parents go, wait a minute. You know, now that I'm hearing
it, I realize that I haven't done that.
And it's not because I don't think those things are
important. It's just that you get caught up
in the day-to-day of parenting. And honestly, I think some
parents believe that we have done the things you just said,
(31:00):
except for when we hear it expressed.
I think we go, you know, I haven't intentionally done that.
When you talk about identity, like we think we walk away
thinking we have reinforced who our children are in the Lord
that we have kind of shorn up that identity.
But then when we hear someone talk about it, we go, you know,
if I'm, I'm really being honest,I think what I've done is just
(31:23):
made some assumptions about whatthey would draw from just being
a part of this family. So what I'm taking away from
what you're saying is that we need to be intentional.
Yeah, I, I like that. And you need to be humble.
I think homeschool parents have intellectual identity first and
foremost in their mind. And I get that, you know, 2 + 2
= 4, not 5. Like you need to be concerned
with the intellectual self of the child because you're the
(31:45):
educator here. You're not sending them off, you
know, to a, a broken school. And yeah, there's the other
parts of who our kids are and spiritual ought to be #1 and so
again, do we train and teach that?
Do we coach them towards spiritual Wellness?
Do we talk more about that? We, we may think we're, we are,
but most of us would admit that we're not so intellectual.
I get why it's first, but it's not priority if you're raising
(32:07):
kids to be believers who are strong in the Lord.
We need to have conversations about those kinds of things.
So, good Doctor Kathy, you coverthis and so much in your
resources that are available at your website.
Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your, your
ministry, your organization and the resources that are available
and where they can get those resources?
(32:28):
Thanks. Thank you so much.
So our website iscelebratekids.com, you can
find our our podcast there and my books and have eight of them,
which is just exhilarating. I can't even imagine that I've
written 8 books. I'm excited.
We have online courses that you can purchase for a nominal fee
and bring into your living room and and watch those with your
children and, and be blessed by that.
(32:49):
Our passion, Miki is to help youcelebrate kids the way Jesus did
and still does. So that's that's why it's so
much fun to be on with you because I know that you and
Schoolhouse Rock believes this. The children should be our
priority. So yeah, check us out.
Celebrate kids.com. I'd love to connect with you.
It's been a pleasure to host Schoolhouse Rock this week.
Make sure that you come back andjoin us for Part 2 of our
(33:11):
conversation. Doctor Kathy and I are going to
be talking about the importance of establishing traditions in
the lives of our children. If you'd like to learn more
about me and the Culture Proof podcast, you can check out
Culture proof.net and learn a little bit more about our
ministry and what we do there. Until next time, take care.
Thanks so much for joining us today for the Schoolhouse Rocked
(33:32):
Podcast. We'd love to hear from you.
If there's a topic you'd like usto cover, reach out to us at
podcast at schoolhouserocked.com.
One last thing, if you know a friend who would be encouraged
by this podcast, please share itwith them.
Join us next week for another exciting episode of the
Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. Until then, keep pointing your
(33:53):
kids to Jesus. You're listening to the Biblical
Family Network. Hey, I'm Miki.
And I'm will. And we're the Co host of the
Culture Proof podcast. We want to invite you to join us
every week as we discuss what's happening in the world and then
filter those happenings through a decidedly biblical lens.
(34:14):
There are many questions, especially when we see what's
happening in our culture today, but the answers are found within
the Word of God, so that's wherewe want to look.
Amen. When we resist those cultural
trends that rival the truth. We remain culture proof.
You know, I think of the word freedom.
I mean, I think a reason to homeeducate is the freedom we have.
(34:34):
Like that's why a lot of people start.
So let's let's maintain that freedom and freedom means that I
can ignore the outside voices. We are, we are a family unit
called by God to this, this unique time and and space.
And so we're going to do it thisway, if you will.
We do it with love and we do it with power because why?
God has empowered us to raise these children and we need to
call sin sin. We need to compliment and affirm
(34:57):
that which is truly good and righteous to God be the glory.
And we need to walk with our kids and say, oh sweetheart, be
disappointed. And then here's the key.
You got to teach them how to change.
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