EP85 – Coaching Youth Insights and Experience Sharing - Sends And Suffers

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.

(00:31):
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(01:14):
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(02:21):
My guest today is Drew. He is a coach in Houston, Texas.
Now, this episode was recorded a little over a year ago.
It's an oldie, but it still holds weight. And it's really exciting to hear conversation
with two coaches talking shop about why they love coaching, why they love giving
back to their community, and most importantly, why they like just watching climbers grow.

(02:43):
I hope you enjoy this episode. See you on the other side.
So my name is Drew Stulb. I'm from Houston, Texas.
My relation to the outdoors is, how would I describe it?
I started climbing when I was pretty young. I grew up right down the street

(03:05):
from a rock climbing gym, actually.
So I started walking to the gym when I was like 12 or 13.
Which gym? It's actually now called Space City Rock Climbing,
and it's down in League City. Okay. When I first started climbing there, it was a Texas rock gym.
Oh, early Texas. Yeah, it was one of the earliest Texas rock gyms.
When I first started climbing, that's what it was. A few years after being there,

(03:26):
it was then purchased by Stone Moves.
John Mews. John Mews, yes, sir. Yeah, man. Yes, sir. I figured I was going to
hear a lot about him. Man, the myth, the legend. Yeah, dude, a legend.
Yep, straight up. And so he was a big part of that as well.
And so I was on Team Stone Moves for a while in my younger years.

(03:46):
And that was whenever I went to nationals. The few times I went to nationals,
I was on team stone moves.
And then as I got, you know, kind of into high school and stuff like that,
I started to kind of, I continued to, I've always climbed. As soon as I got
the bite, I continued to climb.
But after high school, I kind of started to not compete as much and not take it.
So like, you know, I wasn't training avidly nonstop to be a stronger climber.

(04:09):
I was just kind of climbing for fun and going outside with my friends,
going to the gym sporadically. Yeah.
But yeah, you know, I started camping too when I was a really, really little kid.
My family, my dad just got me camping when I was, you know, single digits.
I was in kind of the YMCA equivalent of Boy Scouts called Indian Guides.
And that was actually how I got into rock climbing was we went and did like

(04:31):
a father-son, you know, rock climbing thing at the rock gym when we were,
when I was probably like 10 years old. Okay.
And that was the first time I probably, I might've even been a little younger
than that. And that was the first time I ever went, you know,
I was kind of like, this is cool.
I really like this. and then probably went a few more times with that group of people.
And then by the time I was probably about 12 was when I started making a habit
of it and, you know, saying I'm going to start going regularly.

(04:54):
And then probably by the time I was about 13 or 14 was when I got my first pair of climbing shoes.
Oh, wow. And was like, okay, I'm in this. I want this.
Wow, that's a long gap in comparison to now. I feel like kids get shoes within
the first like 10 days. Exactly.
So also, you know, climbing has changed so much since I started climbing.

(05:15):
When I was, when I first started climbing, you know, no one knew what rock climbing was.
When I told people, you know, I compete in rock climbing, they're like,
where do you do that? How old are you?
I'm 32. Okay, cool. Yeah, rough. I'm 37. Gotcha.
So, so yeah, you know, I got a lot of weird looks when I told people that that's what I did.
And they were like, well, you live in Texas. Where do you do that?

(05:35):
You know, there's a gym down the street.
Oh, so you don't actually climb on real rock and stuff. And I was like,
well, you know, I do, but it's, you know, competitions are held inside and,
you know, I had to kind of explain to them how things went.
But climbing now is, it's really changed a lot. When I first started climbing,
I don't want to say it was something that people could do that didn't really
have a lot of money, but I didn't have, you know, it was, it was not a super expensive thing to do.

(05:58):
It was, you know, the gear was expensive and, you know, gym time was not free,
but nowadays it's, it's really kind of become something you got to have a little
bit of financial stuff to get going, at least in my, from what I'm seeing.
I think because, well, I think it's because we've moved away
from the age of the woody and for those of
you listening a woody comes from the

(06:19):
term of like someone's garage like that has a climbing
wall and a woody is just like a bunch of wood on the wall with climbing
holds on it wooden holes back then because you know and when we say back then
let's just say let's just take a jump back in time it's probably earliest i
would probably say 15 really probably 20 years ago 15

(06:42):
to 20 years ago, earliest, as far back as like 45, you know, 50 years ago.
But like, that is a woody. A woody is just a glorified, just climbing wall in your garage.
And that's it. And early gyms were just like woody. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And so it makes sense, you know, but now they've come,
now we've gone to more so full-fledged fitness facilities. Correct.

(07:04):
And which it's, which is the direction it needs to go in.
Don't get me wrong for sustainability and growth. grow, but it,
that is where that's, it is the difference. Continue.
I was just, you know, the dirt bag lifestyle was a very appealing thing when
I was getting into climbing, you know, it's still there, but you don't see it as much.
I feel like, I think it's just cause we're not near rock climbing.

(07:25):
That's probably a big part of it too. If we were near rock climbing or real
rock in Colorado or Utah or places like that, I think you would see it.
But like when I travel and go to Vegas, go away, I mean, I mean the same people
that I were dirt bagging 10 years ago are are the same people dirtbagging now.
I got you. Like, they're just older and have remote jobs now. Totally. Totally.
But yeah, you know, my climbing coach when I was a kid was one of the most,

(07:49):
I don't know if you've ever heard of, heard his name. His name was Trey.
He was the climbing coach when I got into competing and he was for sure one
of the most influential people, asides from probably my parents that I've ever had in my life.
You know, he was just this amazing person, full of energy, a great climber. The parents loved him.

(08:11):
He was just a really great role model for all the kids.
And being around him and seeing kind of that, like all I want to do when I was
that age was like, I want to grow up and be like this guy.
That's awesome. This, this is, he is the guy.
And so as I, you know, as my life went on and I kind of went in and out of the
climbing world as much as I did, when I got the opportunity to start coaching

(08:33):
down here, that was all I could think about was like, oh my gosh,
I could be this person for some of these kids.
Like, and if I can, if I can touch any of these kids' life the same way that
Trey touched my life, then oh my gosh, that would be wonderful because he really
steered me and, you know, becoming the person that I am today.
I feel like a hundred percent.

(08:54):
Yeah. Yeah. So he was for sure one of the biggest reasons I started coaching
aside from just the fact that I love climbing, but I was just like,
oh man, you know, if I can have the opportunity to.
To be like a role positive role model or get any of these kids stoked on life
and stoked on climbing the same way that he did then yes 100 i would love to

(09:15):
do that dude that's awesome so awesome,
so what classes do you currently coach right now so currently at momentum silver
street i coach advanced youth club which is the oldest age of kids we have right
before they can start you know into our competitive team do you is it an age
restriction on getting into the competitive restraints or is it an ability restriction?

(09:38):
So our competitive team is, don't get me wrong, we want the kids who are in
competitive team to be strong climbers.
But a big part of it is their, you know, mentality, their coachability,
you know, their etiquette at the gym, things like that.
It's, you know, there's some, some of those things can be taught.
Some of those things kind of, you have to just learn like slowly just being

(09:58):
around it. Yeah. As you go along.
As you go along. And so, you know, it's, it's not just, it's not just their skill level.
We want kids who are there, who are driven and who are self-motivated and who
are there to learn and to progress, not just to kind of be there and goof off.
Um, which Hey, climbing is a fun thing. If you want to come and goof off, dude, come on with it.

(10:18):
We want you to have fun, but we also want to find the kids who are there to
be serious about it, who want a future in climbing.
And we want to take that, you know, that little fire and turn it into a roaring
blaze and just be like, yes, we want to fuel that stoke as much as we possibly can.
So yeah, I teach advanced youth club at Momentum Silver Street.
I also teach youth club too, which is kind of our precursor to advance.

(10:42):
It's our oldest kids who come twice a week.
You know, that's, it's usually a lot of the time the jump goes from advanced
into team, but we have had,
we have had kids go straight from, you know, youth club two into team or any
of the other youth programs right in a team just because, you know,
we see that it's time for them to make it in there. Yeah. I mean,
you know when to move along. Right.

(11:03):
And so, and I also just started working with competitive team.
Nice. So you're working with Ben? Yes, I am working with Ben. Yes, sir.
Yeah. He asked me if I wanted to start working with him, you know, every so often.
And I said, absolutely. So I think I'm going to slowly start to kind of integrate into that.
And because we really want to smooth the transition from our
youth programs into competitive team and not have

(11:23):
there be such a kind of a gap or like a invisible wall
between you know here's our youth programs and everything like
that and then there's this here's competitive team we want it to be like immediate
smooth transfer right into that like oh yeah you know y'all are already kicking
butt here now you can compete mm-hmm so that's been that's been a lot of fun
working with him he's an awesome coach he's just a wealth of knowledge when

(11:47):
it comes to to climbing information and he's a great person too.
But yeah, so I started, I actually think I first started coaching at Momentum
about two years ago and it was in the middle of COVID. I'd been living in Oregon.
COVID was getting really heavy. You know, all my family lives back down here

(12:08):
in Houston and I quit my job in Oregon.
What were you doing there? I was designing commercial irrigation systems for
vineyards and orchards and pot farms and things like that.
All kinds of, you know, it's a very big agricultural area up there and I have
a pretty extensive background in irrigation.
So I went up there just kind of on a whim, have a friend up there that I was

(12:31):
staying with for a little while and then ended up getting this job and stayed
up there for a little while doing that and love being in Oregon.
Wasn't the hugest fan of sitting in front of a computer all day,
but in the middle of COVID, when things got really, really thick,
I moved back down here to be with my family and kind of started climbing again,
like heavily, you know, in the middle of all that, I was, I'm going to start going to the gym
as much as I can now that I'm back around the gym because I

(12:51):
was climbing a lot mostly outside in Oregon I still had a membership
at the rogue rock gym right outside of Ashland okay
and was was climbing there whenever I
wasn't climbing outside and it was kind of dirtbag and for a little while before
I got my my good job mm-hmm and you know that was where I was showering and
things was at the rock climbing gym yeah I know that life and then once I got
a job and started making some decent money I was renting a house with some friends

(13:14):
so I moved back to Houston started climbing pretty regularly early again at
the gym and made friends with a guy named Dylan Stone,
who was kind of the coach at Momentum at the time who worked with most of the
kids at one point in time or another who'd been working there for a while. Just great, great guy.
And he was like, Hey man, do you think you would be interested in coaching?

(13:35):
And at first I was very hesitant about it because I was like,
man, I've always, I really always wanted to keep climbing as kind of my thing.
I don't want to I don't want it to ever be work. I want it to always be play
and fun and me being out there having a good time. And it's my getaway.
I was like, I don't know if I ever want, I don't know if I want it to be a work thing for me.

(13:56):
And so I really thought about it really heavily before I told him that I thought I was interested in it.
And really what got me to say, yes, I would love to do this was thinking about
Trey and thinking about my experience with him and just how big of an impact
he had on my life. And I was like, dude.
I can be the person like Trey was being. I think that would be awesome.
I'm going to check this out. I'm going to do this.

(14:17):
And so I started working with them and started coaching some of the younger kids.
And then I think I also did a summer camp that same season, which a little bit
different, a little more babysitting, but it also gives you a good opportunity
to kind of see what kind of kids are there.
And we picked out a lot of kids from our summer camp. So we're like,
hey, you should join our youth programs.

(14:38):
You've got the motivation and the drive. Like, let's see what you got.
And so I started working with Momentum doing that and then kind of slowly got,
you know, a little more integrated into their youth program stuff.
And before I knew it, I was coaching youth club, advancing coaching youth club too.
Nice. So. Dude, this is one heck of a transition from one end of the country

(15:00):
back down here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So like, I guess, so you've been coaching for two years. So it's what, two years now? Yes, sir.
Nice. And where do you, do you see yourself continuing to coach?
Is this like, like, are you trying to make this like a permanent career path?
And if so, how have you thought about like how you're envisioning to do that?

(15:21):
So I have thought about it actually making it a permanent career path a lot.
I'm not, and to be completely honest with you, I'm not sure how I would go about it.
I know the first step would probably be working with our competitive team and
kind of going in that direction and starting to get more involved with the actual
competitive side of things and not just our youth programs. Why?
Just because I feel like if I wanted to take what I had learned or take being

(15:47):
a coach somewhere else, I feel like it'd be,
a lot easier for me to move somewhere and start working with
a team having that been my background
like yes i've worked with team momentum and stuff like
that before and then going to another gym and saying yeah you know i don't want
to say i'm certified but i've i've worked with competitive team before i've
been climbing for 20 years there is no certification to work with that team

(16:09):
but it's funny i would obviously consider it the opposite me personally because
like everybody wants to coach the kids that want to be get better everybody
wants to coach the kids that want to be strong.
And so like, the way I look at it is this way. Like you have the cream of the
crop, which is those kids who want to be strong and really want to climb and really want.
And then you have the bottom of the barrel, which is the kids who just don't

(16:30):
really care. And they're not
really like, you know, their parents are just dropping them off of that.
But the biggest margin is everyone in the middle. Those are the kids who like,
don't know what they want, but they know they want to be here.
They don't know they want to be stronger and they want to climb harder,
but they don't know necessarily how to do it. They don't think they can,
but you have the kids who really like rock climbing and it's super fun and they just want to have fun.
And like, that is like the biggest margin. And so to me as an employer,

(16:55):
I mean, granted, I'm just a head coach, but I do hire coaches all the time.
But to me, like the biggest thing that I would look for is someone who can actually
one coach kids of all calibers, not just like, because to a certain extent,
like the kids that are on team, they coach themselves to a certain extent,
you're providing lesson plans, you're providing drill, you're really fine tuning,

(17:16):
like the movements you're going in that, but they want to be there so much. Oh, absolutely.
Like, like if, even if they have practice twice a week, they're still there
two or three days out of the week.
So theoretically speaking, they're almost coaching themselves,
you know, because they're competitive with each other. They're playing games.
They're trying to climb hard boulders. They talk about like,
man, I sent this great hard boulder over the weekend.

(17:38):
Cool. And you're like, okay, well, I'm going to step up your training now because
I realize you can do harder stuff. But like.
Where I feel like there's a lack in the industry is in the middle because everybody
wants to find the next Yanya. Everybody wants to find the next Duffman.
And I just don't like, and I just, I tell people, I'm like, that's not going to be you.
Like, that's just like majority of people. But where we, I think where we fail

(17:59):
short as an industry as a whole is like the middle, because that at the end
of the day is what keeps the doors open for the youth program.
And two, I mean, in my opinion, those kids are more fun because they're just
like, you're right, living their best life, but I'm not trying to like squash it or anything.
I'm just like throwing out an alternative idea here.
And so, oh, but I, but I do agree with you, however, that having head level

(18:25):
coach experience, if you want to take over, if you are trying to take over an entire program,
from head to toe, having a little bit of that experience is things.
But I think the more important experience is everything in the middle and also
being able to manage that and manage coaches and manage the schedule and manage
the lesson plan to be able to create those kids who will be able to do at the top.

(18:48):
Because, you know, once again, like, you know, the kid wants to climb V10,
he will climb V10. He will get there on his own, right?
Get there with you, with you or without you. Exactly. Exactly.
No, you're completely right though. Cause I do have, I have such a wide spectrum
of kids that I teach. You know, I have kids and my youth program two class or
youth club I'm too classed that.
You know, that flashing a V2 is a really big deal for them. Oh,

(19:12):
it's massive. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's, it's amazing.
And to see that, yeah, you know, and then I have kids who flash V8s too, you know what I mean?
And they're, and they're around the same age, but to, to have such a wide variety
of, of kids, especially in my youth club two class, because my advanced class,
I've, I've, they're all pretty similar, similar boat as far as their climbing abilities.
Makes sense. But my youth club two class, you know, again, I have kids in there who are drastically,

(19:37):
the gap is huge yeah the gap is huge and finding
being able to continue to motivate
the kids who are still who are like
you know seeing these other kids do sixes and sevens and things like that
and they're like well why can't I do that it's like well dude one everyone is
different you're competing with yourself truth it's all you know you're competing

(19:57):
with yourself don't compare yourself to them it's you also have to realize like
failing is okay that's a part of the game It's part of the thing.
And like, that was one of the biggest things that took me a little while to
really get to be able, I don't want to say coach or teach these kids,
but letting them know, like, it is okay to fall. Yeah.
I have a mantra that I tell the kids. I'm like, if you're not falling, you're not. Exactly.

(20:20):
Exactly. And I know so many of the, you know, the really strong climbers we
have at our gym or the really strong kids at our gym are, don't fall very often.
And it's been, and they're really,
you know, adamant about the way other people think of them, kind of.
You know, they don't want people to see them fall.
On a daily basis, in the grand scheme of what I probably would say I'm trying

(20:43):
to give these kids is my attention as a human being.
And like, give them my, like, my time. Asides from just being a coach, but as a person.
And really try to connect with them on levels that, like, they might not have
other people in their life that connect to, like, with them on those same levels.

(21:04):
I know a lot of my kids that I coach are homeschooled. Oh.
Or. Do you have a big homeschool community here?
I don't know. I'd be lying to you if I told you. I mean, you can lie to me.
I don't mind. I don't know. I'm assuming.
I know, like I said, a lot of the kids I teach are homeschooled or go to private
schools and don't have what I would say is kind of the same,
like, family dynamics maybe that I do. And like, I have a really,

(21:24):
really close relationship with my parents. They're two of my best friends.
My sister also is, you know, one of the closest people in my life.
And I see a lot of these kids who like might not have that many friends or have
great relationships with their parents because both their parents are really, really busy.
They get picked up by their nannies and so on. And so just giving them somebody

(21:46):
that they can talk to about their day and what's going on in their life.
And like I mean not even giving them advice on anything
just hearing them out sometimes is like what I try
to do for them as well as being in any you know an encouraging
individual and help them with climbing and everything but I learned getting
into coaching that there's so much more to working with these kids and just

(22:09):
climbing it's you know I'm trying to help them become good humans and climbing
translates into so many other things in life you know.
Being okay with failing doesn't, isn't just in climbing.
It's kind of a, kind of a learning how to fail is a big deal with as a universal thing.
And if you can learn kind of how to fail in climbing, then you can really use

(22:32):
that and translate it over into a lot of other parts of your life and being confident and,
you know, trusting yourself and, and,
you know, just creating a good community as well at our gym is another big thing
that I've tried to do because Because the community that I had around the gym
that I grew up at was awesome.

(22:52):
All those people, you know, were some of the most of the people that I grew
up climbing with are still the people that I stay in touch with today.
Awesome. That's cool. And I don't and I'm really bad at staying in touch with people.
I'm kind of one of those like out of sight, out of mind people.
I don't think that's uncommon in the climbing community.
So, but, you know, whenever I see them again, it's like we haven't missed a
beat. but a lot of the people that I actually find that I still do stay in touch

(23:16):
with were people that I, not people I went to high school with,
not my friends that I was friends with in high school. It's the people that I climbed with.
And also being the person that I was in high school, I didn't have a ton of friends in high school.
I played, I was in diving and I played ice hockey or roller hockey a little
bit when I was in high school.
But for the most part, climbing was kind of my everything and it was my friends and it was my community.

(23:39):
And that was what I looked forward to when I left school was going straight to the gym.
And I spent pretty much every waking minute as a teenager as a little gym rat down the street.
You know, the, the guys who worked at the gym kind of became my older brothers.
I started and hanging out with them. You know what I mean? It was, it became my family.
And I don't want to say I'm trying to make that exact same thing at our gym
because it's, you know, it's a way smaller gym. It's a, we have a bigger gym

(24:02):
too. Different time. Different time, different time.
But, you know, I want these kids to be able to relate with each other and to
see that they're all friends and that, you know, they can trust each other and
uplift each other and like not really compete with each other on a level that's
like, oh, I'm better than you.
I'm better than you. It's, we're all here to cheer each other on and to have
a good time while we do it. But yeah, no, I think I definitely think you have the right mindset.

(24:25):
And I think the way you're trying to go at is the right approach, because ultimately,
you know, you know, talking to a bunch of your coaches that have worked at the
gym currently and not currently,
and then talking to my own coaches and other coaches around the country,
you know, I noticed one of the reoccurring threads in coaches that I see that
coaches Coaches that want to be there and want to be in present and want,

(24:51):
and then have patience and are engaged.
They understand that it's like, you know, it's not so much what you are doing,
but how you are doing it is what matters the most.
And it's like, you know, I've, my boss taught me a phrase, you know,
it's like, what do you want to do? Do you want to send the boulder or do you want to do the move?
You want to do the move? Cause if you know how to do all the moves by byproduct,

(25:12):
you can get to the top of the boulder. The last part is my little ad lib onto it, but...
And I think that's one of the biggest things that like us as coaches and us,
especially at a recreational level, is it is really about seeing the athlete
in front of you and honestly seeing that person for who they are and where they are,
you know, because, you know, Bobby might come into lunch, come into the gym

(25:34):
today and he's like, someone didn't sit next to me.
Yep. Or this is that. And they're mad for whatever reason. And,
you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, does it really matter?
No, but does it matter to them? Absolutely. you know and i think to a certain
extent we are teaching that you know listen.
We are teaching them that and we are
we are affirming first that listen you are a person

(25:55):
your feelings matter you have emotional complexity
you have some form of emotional maturity you might not know why you feel the
way you feel but you do know that you feel it our job is really just to help
navigate you as you navigate yourself to that and we are just here to and navigate
you to become a better person and a better human being.

(26:16):
Because essentially, like I said, like they'll, they'll teach themselves at
the end of the day, they'll, they'll become great people.
So what is one thing that you feel like you have gained or learned in your time
and your experience here coaching?
Like if there's any one or two things that kind of stand out.
I've definitely gained more patience. For sure.

(26:37):
You know, everybody, everybody excels at a different level.
Yes. Agreed. And, and, and having patience to work with everyone and make sure
that they realize that that is,
you know, that everybody does excel at a different level and having the patience
to work with a lot of these kids to continue to encourage them that they are

(26:59):
getting better and that they like.
And I just had a brain fart. But yeah, just having the patience to really talk,
to sit down and work things out with a lot of these kids. Because I know they do get frustrated.
Like you were saying, there's so many other things that are going on in their lives outside of this.
A lot of the time, if they're having a rough day at the gym,
it has nothing to do with what's going on in the gym.

(27:21):
It's probably something that went on at school or in their family life.
I've had a few of my kids show up just in not great moods and their parents
were like, they didn't get any sleep last night.
They're they're not they're not doing well today and I was like oh okay well
see how it goes I mean you know when the days that they show up in a you know
at a tiff that I can send them home.
Chipper and smiling are the days where I'm like yes I did my

(27:43):
job that are exhausted or exhausted either way either way yeah either one yeah
I find that like after years of coaching I can always tell if a kid didn't sleep
or eat because I like a little like five minutes like maybe like 20 minutes
into practice I'm like gee for lunch today yep you know like and they have to
think about it I'm like, the fact of the matter that you have to think this
long means you didn't eat.
I need to go up to the front, get a snack, can't be junk food,

(28:05):
can't be this, can't be all of that stuff, you know, or I can tell they're dragging.
I'm like, what time you go to bed?
They're like, I didn't go to bed. I'm like, okay, I'm changing your workout
today. And they're like, I want to do this. I'm like, you don't have the ability,
the cognitive ability to do this.
Like, so you either need to go to sleep and sleep before practice,
like sleep really well the night before, or know that I'm going to start changing your workout.

(28:27):
Out and it teaches them the consequences of their actions to a little bit,
you know, and hopefully it's not, it's well within their control.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. I mean, you know, they are a minor,
so things change for them.
It's interesting, man. So like you mentioned, oh, well, I guess you did mention
that you said your coaching style is so different because you really try to

(28:48):
build the relationship with them.
I really do. Is there anything else that you feel that you try to approach uniquely
that is different or is unlike other coaching styles or coaching techniques that you've seen?
Think about that. It can be a later question. Okay. It can definitely be a later question.
So now where do you see yourself in the next like couple years?

(29:12):
Like do you, like we said, we like you, you want to make a career. Yes.
I will. Do you, do you actually, can you see that now? Like,
is that something like you say, like, okay, right now you can say like,
yes, I can see myself in five years, still coaching.
I'm still growing. I'm making the professional moves that I want.
I'm making the financial moves, I'm buying a house, I'm moving on,

(29:32):
like, do you see all of these things, like currently where you're standing right
now, or sitting, can you see these things in your future? Nope, not at all.
Absolutely not. Why? I'm really, I'm not very good at looking into the future for myself.
Do you do it for your athlete? I do do it for my, I do it for my athletes, absolutely.
I'm always looking in, I feel like, to the future for all the kids.

(29:53):
So like when you have an athlete, so let's say you have an athlete that gets
in your youngest program. Correct.
Like how far in the future, and I'm not saying like, you know,
you're like, you know, we're not like the watchmaker here making every move
of their life if you're planning it out, but you do like, you know what I mean?
Like you get a vision for a kid.
You're like, okay, like if you stick around for like five years until you're

(30:13):
like 12, like if you stick around until you're 12 and that, you know,
why do you have a hard time doing that same thing for yourself?
I don't, that's a good question. You know, I've always,
I've always kind of been kind of bounced around
with what I wanted to do and where I was going and I've you know I lived on
the road for a little while when I moved I moved out of Texas I'm after kind

(30:35):
of a rough breakup and just kind of a friend of mine was living in an off-grid
cabin up in Colorado and said hey man I think this would be good for you so
I went up there and stayed with him for a little while,
And I, you know, I love, I love living on the road. I'm not going to lie.
I like to have a place to call home, but I also really enjoy kind of the not

(30:55):
knowing what's coming next.
And I know for a fact, I always want the outdoor industry and climbing to be part of my life.
And it's, it's something I'm not going to be able to shape because it's, it's in me.
It's, it's that it's part of my life. I can see that. I can see that for you.
But as far as, you know, the actual coaching aspect of it, I don't know how,
I don't know. I would love to do it as a career.

(31:18):
What's the biggest barrier for you like creating it now? Because that's why I asked.
It's like, because like, because like I can tell you're passionate about it.
And it's like, it comes out through your voice. It oozes out of you,
you know, and I can see that.
It's just, it just surprises me that like, if you're, for someone who has so
much, so much passion towards something, the fact of the matter that like,

(31:39):
you know, I can see you thinking about a year or two in advance of like,
okay, I'm still going to be coaching.
Coaching but like you know I know and I'll speak for myself here turning it
inwards for me it's like coaching is my career but I also want to own a home
I also want to travel the world I'm closer to owning a home now I'm closer I've
already climbed in Spain Mexico I've climbed all over the United States I'm

(32:00):
getting ready to go to South America to climb like but these are like,
you know but I'm doing this all within the confines of you know within the world
of coaching and you know and there's some strategic moves that I have to make
inside and outside of my coaching world, you know, like,
you know, but these are things that I, I want to do because like coaching is

(32:21):
my job and I'm passionate about my job, but me as a climber,
I have other ambitions I want to do.
Exactly. And so I guess the thing is, is like, you know, and if it's not something
you know, now it's not something, you know, now I, I encourage you to think
about it because, Because, you know, finding coaches that care,
no one, you know, Teddy Roosevelt said it, no one cares,

(32:43):
no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
And finding coaches that care
are hard. Finding coaches that care that are malleable is even harder.
And finding coaches that care and are malleable and that are planning to be
around are, it's like discovering whether string theory is real or not.

(33:04):
Like it's, it's very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very rare.
I cannot stress how rare it is.
You know, I'm not trying to put you in the hot seat here. I just,
you know, bring it. It's just, it's just my challenge for you to think about it.
Because once again, good coaches in this industry are hard to find because most

(33:24):
people just look at it as glorified babysitting.
If I could support myself doing it, I would absolutely 100% see myself doing
this for the rest of my life. If I had the money right now to not worry about
money, I would do what I do right now for free.
Fair enough. Fair enough. But you shouldn't have to, but I, you know,
you shouldn't have to. I definitely don't. I'm definitely not.

(33:45):
So like, I mean, if you're comfortable talking about this, like,
you know, I will, I will tell you this and I, and I, I give the caveat in this
is like, you know, I'm, I, I come from a different generation of coaches.
I coached for a very long time.
I started off as a subcontractor for coaching and it was a very different world.
And then I've moved into a salary position and I moved into a different world in that,

(34:08):
around that realm and so like as it
stands right now with the hours and are you
hourly or i'm hourly right now okay so you're not solid so as
it stands right now hourly are you able to make a living coaching full-time
that's tough because i live with my parents right now yeah minus i mean but
yeah but still you i wouldn't you still able to like would you be able to save
money for an apartment would you like if you moved out on your own do you feel

(34:30):
like i don't think i could move out on my own right now with the amount of money
with the way coaching the money that i make right
now coaching I would be struggling to
live on my own right now yeah and I think that and you know
and it's like I that is a reoccurring thread
that I'm starting to notice that is happening and
I think I hopefully it will change because like once again like I cannot stress

(34:53):
how hard it is to find like very good coaches that want to be there like it
is it is something It is something that is like very,
very, very, very, very, very, very rough.
Do you guys get other opportunities to like make income through like private lessons?

(35:14):
So I also do private lessons as well. Okay, cool. I do, as it is right now,
I work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
I coach every one of those days, four days a week. I do private lessons two of those days.
I would probably do them more, except I live pretty far away.
Anyway, I live, you know, with traffic, I live about an hour and a half away from the gym.
Oh, so I make, you know, I thank you for being here. Yeah, yeah,

(35:37):
yeah. So, you know, there's days where I go coach where I actually lose money being up there.
So because I drive a big diesel truck, I mean, I live, you know, I live a long way away.
So there's, I'm definitely not doing this for the money. There are,
there are for sure days where I go up there to coach.
If I'm only going up there to coach for the whatever, two hours,
two and a half hours that I'm coaching, I'm usually breaking even,
or possibly losing money.
Cause I like to provide snacks for my kids too and I don't make my kids like

(36:01):
I tell them to bring their own snacks they usually don't pay for that no no
I pay for that you know like this is so like this is kind of me just coming
from a coach who's coached coaches and like it's been doing this for a while it's like like.
It should not be your responsibility. Your only responsibility should be to
inspire, encourage, motivate, and grow.

(36:22):
But other than that, your job should provide all the resources.
Nobody expects it from me.
You know? No one expects it from me. No, no one expects it from you.
But the thing, I guess my question is, have you asked them to take over that
responsibility or to ask them to cover that thing? Because, like,
the most they'll say is no.
And then you can continue to do it on your own. But the reality of it is,
is these are things that like the program should be providing because you're building legacy.

(36:48):
Like you're guaranteeing that like, listen, this kid that's paying God knows
how much for their mom and their nanny and their Porsche Cayenne to drop them off. Exactly.
To pay like they're going to be in the program because of the work and the effort
and the love and the consideration that I'm putting into it.
They're going to be in this program probably for the next five to 10 years.
So whatever that monthly do is plus

(37:10):
shoes plus snacks plus comps
plus whatever else that they decide to get their hands
on that they buy from the gym adding that
all up i mean you know i don't know what the actual math but you know if you
get a kid in from the very beginning and they graduate all the way through team
and they graduate out of their 19 you know you probably make close to like you

(37:31):
know i don't know close to a quarter million dollars off of one kid one kid
it's kind of one It's a lot of money. This is a stretch.
I am not doing the math right now, but it's like I'm just running the real quick
numbers in my head knowing that the cost significantly goes up for each program that they get into.
Totally. It is significantly more expensive. Our competitive team is not cheap.

(37:52):
I do not believe if I would have wanted to be on our competitive team that we
have now at Momentum when I was a child, my parents would have been like,
dude, we can't afford that. No, there's no way.
My parents would have been like, no. No, my dad would be like,
I will take you to rocks before I will pay for this. It's very expensive.
It is an affluent sport. It's an issue. It's like people want like socioeconomically

(38:15):
disenfranchised or socioeconomically struggling people to get involved.
But like it is an affluence, especially now.
Like maybe in the days of the Woody, it was a little cheaper.
But even then, it had its own downfalls then, which is culture and different
things like that and just attitudes. attitudes and, you know, just welcome this.
It's like, it was different. Like, you know, you give and you take,

(38:37):
you know? And it's like, but now it's like.
I mean, it's like, yeah, like I said, it's changed a lot. It's changed a lot. Yeah.
I mean, I, I, I know how much it is to have three, to have a family of three
and have all three of your kids in my program.
Like, and I, and I do my best to help people when I can, but you know,
my hands are tied to a certain extent. that?
I want to say the gym that I started climbing at, I think it was like right

(39:00):
over $200 or something like that for our annual, for the annual membership.
And so my parents, you know, my big gift or like my birthday and my Christmas
type thing was like, boom, we got you a month or a year long membership at the
rock climbing gym down the road.
And you know, and that was, and it was like, yeah. And it was like $200 for
the full year. That's that. Yeah. That's historic.
That's like, that doesn't, that's not a thing, you know? Right.

(39:22):
Right. And, and I bought my first pair of climbing shoes, you know,
I was a, I was probably, like I said, I think I was probably 14 and I'd helped
one of my buddies do a lock-in at our gym for like Boy Scouts or something like that.
And I, you know, we, they'd, I'd stayed there all night, helped him,
helped him out, do a lock-in.
And then the next morning came, everybody left and I was kind of cleaning up
and I looked down on the ground. I was like, is that a $100 bill folded up on the ground?

(39:42):
And I picked it up and I was like, oh my gosh, I found a hundred bucks.
And I went up to my friend, I was like, hey, I found this on the ground.
And he was like, oh, okay, cool.
I'll put it in the drawer. And if nobody finds it, you know,
if nobody comes back for it in two weeks, it's yours, dude.
And so, you know, time went by and I came into the gym one day and he said,
Hey, this is for you. And he gave it to me and I was like, Oh, no way.
He's like, yeah, nobody ever came back for it. And so I took that and that was
how I went and bought my first pair of climbing shoes.

(40:03):
And that was, you know, that was a crazy moment for me because,
you know, I'd been wanting my own climbing shoes since I'd been into climbing,
but I couldn't, I couldn't afford my own climbing shoes.
And that was a lot of money, especially for a kid like my age then.
And in all honesty, you know the shoes at the gym they didn't really have specific
rental shoes like they do now the shoes that our gym had were actual climbing

(40:23):
shoes and they just had bought a lot of you know yeah rental shoe game yeah
like the industry has changed a lot.
Yes, it has. But yeah, you know, so like I said, I, as far as a future for,
for me coaching, if I, if I could see myself being able to support myself doing
what I do right now, dude, I would love it. Oh my gosh.

(40:45):
I would do this for the rest of my life. No questions asked.
That is where I'm kind of like up in the air about my future is,
is being able to support myself doing this.
I'm not, I'm not a super ambitious person when it comes to money.
I feel like I give away most of the stuff I have. I definitely am not doing this for the money.
I'm in a very unique position right now, living with my parents,
not having probably a lot of the bills and things that most people have that are my age.

(41:10):
And so I've taken this, you know,
really unique opportunity to give back into the sport that I care so much about
and to just share my love and gratitude for climbing with all the kids that
I I teach. Are you a big reader?
Comes and goes, comes and goes.
I make a suggestion for you, a book you should read. It's You Are a Badass at Making Money.

(41:36):
And it's a book about knowing, I'll send it to you. It's about knowing your worth.
A friend recently recommended it to me and I read the foreword and I read the
first two chapters and I was like, okay, bet.
Like this is, this is really good because I have that problem in other aspects
of my life and knowing just like some side hustles and some things that I do.

(41:56):
But, you know, I really encourage you to like definitely consider,
think about how you can make it a living and think about how you can do it.
Because once again, like.
The turnover of coaches is so high. And like I said, my passion in life is definitely
coaching, teaching kids. I like coaching coaches.
I like inspiring people to do it. My favorite place in the world is belaying

(42:17):
you on your proj, whether you're sending or not, or spotting you.
But on top of that, it is equally as encouraging people to do what I do.
And by no means do I want to change your core or your essence,
but I do want to encourage you to know your worth, And I do want to encourage
you to fight for what you're worth.
And I do want to encourage you to know, to advocate for yourself,

(42:40):
because if you don't advocate for yourself, you won't advocate for anyone else.
Like, you know, simply put, like, if you want to advocate for yourself,
when you fall in love and you're with someone, if you don't,
if you don't have a firm belief and practice of advocating for yourself,
you can't advocate for someone else. and you learn how to advocate for your kids more.
And it's like, and, you know, I'll probably get in trouble saying this,

(43:00):
but like, you know, we compete with space sometimes with Team Texas to use the
climbing gym and things like that for my program and my kid.
And the Team Texas coaches know I am ruthless when it comes to that.
I'm like, no. And like, they're like, well, I'm like, no.
Like it was not on the schedule. You guys did not put it on the schedule.
And literally the boss has to call me and be like, I need you to let this happen.

(43:22):
I'm like, okay, cool. cool, that's fine.
And they're like, and I can tell their frustration in their voice.
They're like, why do you make me do? I'm like, it is not my fault.
We were allowed to do this. This is happening.
And if the, if the schedule or the things change, that's it.
But I, I'm a little bit of a hard ass. I'm known as that, but like I will unequivocally
ruthlessly piss whoever I need off in advocacy for my kids.

(43:45):
And the same thing is I've had to learn how to start doing it for myself more.
And so I definitely want to encourage you to like, you know,
whatever you got to do, like whatever you have to do to make it work for you.
And if this is something you really love doing, and if this is something you're
like, man, I wish I could make a career of it.

(44:06):
Like wishes, wishes have been fulfilled on less, you know, you're right. Yeah.
No. And, or as that, you know, I forget what rap song it is,
but like, you know, listen, I believe you have the skills and the knowledge
to learn how to cook without a kitchen.
You know, you can cook without a stove, homeboy. You can make it happen.
It's just, you know, there is a will, there is a way and at the end of the day,

(44:30):
like, I would just encourage you to like really fight for what you want because, because.
Good coaches, once again, are very, very, very hard to find.
Most people come into this sport with this rose colored glasses of like,
like I said earlier, I want to coach Yanya and Duffman or I want to do this
or these kids aren't just like motivated enough or this and that and this and that.

(44:52):
And at the end of the day, what they don't realize is, is they are talking about themselves.
Yes, they are talking about how the kids don't do this. Yes,
they are talking about how this isn't happening. But at the end of the day,
what they are projecting, they are talking to their younger self,
maybe, that wasn't as motivated, or they are just talking at the kids.
They are not talking with the kids. They are not engaging with them because

(45:15):
their expectations are not being met.
And what they don't realize is their expectations are built on principles and
thoughts that have nothing to do with these kids.
They are built on their own principles, on their own thoughts,
on their own thing. And they have nothing to do with their children.

(45:37):
And the fact of the matter that you think about the principles that you want
to build and the expectations that you want to grow and how you want to take
the kids where you want to go. And you're thinking about them first.
And then you're building it around that is massive.
And most people don't do that. Like, you know, and, you know,
and almost like I said, in almost 20 years of coaching, like it is so rare.

(46:01):
To find people who want to do that most people love their job and they want to clock out.
There's like three people they love their job they want to clock out they love
the coaching and they're like you or they just
don't really care they're just doing it to just do to
like because they're in college or they just want something to pass the time or

(46:21):
they want a free membership yep you know and so i
definitely encourage you you know and i'm happy to help you in any way shape or
form i'm happy to bust anybody's balls you know i would come in like katie perry
and bring in the wrecking ball or was it whoever sung that song i don't remember
i think it is i think you're right where's it miley miley cyrus yeah yeah girl
my bad katie you out miley you win what's up girl miley from texas too anyway so what's up girl,

(46:48):
But yeah, man, I would just encourage you, however it can make it,
you know, and I would ask like Ben, Ben is a great resource.
He is. You know, I would ask anybody, man, but like, if you start asking,
you will get what you want, but it is, it is something well within your wheelhouse.
And the only reason why I'm kind of stressing it and I'll shut up about it after
this statement, but like, I know it's within your wheelhouse to do this because you were a climber.

(47:13):
You have the ability right now to walk
up to a boulder problem outside of your pay grade and piece it
together whether you'll send it or not in this day it doesn't matter but
you have the ability to start putting it together start having
aha moments start having those near misses connecting the
dots linking sequence together starting linking the
change together like i said whether you send it today or not

(47:34):
you might like oh it's an issue of finger strength it's
an issue you have like my rotator cuff it's like and you can
do all the work to like strengthen yourself and you can do all
the work to do like make this boulder happen why can we not as climbers redirect
that same energy towards wanting what you want or social problems or you're
right you know or wanting a wanting a successful love life or wanting a better

(47:58):
career or wanting spirituality or or,
you know, the list is endless, you know?
But I just say, like, you have the tools necessary.
It's just, the hard part is just getting on the freaking boulder.
Yep, yep. You know, just getting on the boulder. 100%, man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry to kind of go on this, like, little preachy thing here.

(48:21):
That was great. I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's just thinking about it, like I said. It's just, it's something,
it's just, it's, yeah, man, it's a rarity, man. And like, when you see something
that's good for kids and the community, you know, you got to do every,
you got to do everything you can to hold on to it.
You know, so do you have any aspirations or goals for your own personal climbing
that you're working on right now?

(48:42):
I mean, so again, with, with me deciding to coach, I really,
I was so hesitant about it because I knew the more time I spent in the gym working,
the less time I'd probably want to be there climbing.
And so again, I'm there, I'm there a lot. I pretty much live there and it's
hard for me to find the stoke for myself.
I'm great. I've learned wonderfully how to give my stoke to the kids.

(49:06):
But a lot of the time at the end of the day, after being there for 10 plus hours,
you know, I get that after being there for 10 hours and I finally am ready to clock out.
I'm like, do I want to go put in two hours on the moon board for a second?
Or do I just, do I just want to go home and eat dinner?
And I'm like, you know, I just think I want to go home and eat dinner and I'll
go home and hop on my hangboard for an hour.
And, you know, even though I'm not at the gym anymore, I'll still do like a nice exercise.

(49:28):
But again, being at the gym as often as I am is hard for me to find time,
for my own goals. So I do most of my training and most of my conditioning and
everything like that at my house. I have a pretty nice setup training in my house.
So the dojo at home is key, right? Right. I do a little tons of training at my house.
I mean, every day, right when I

(49:48):
wake up, I probably spend 30 minutes on my hangboard and handstand canes.
But, but again, if all I was doing was coaching too, I think it would be different,
but I've kind of supplemented, you know, I do staff work too at our gym just
so I can have extra income while I'm at the gym.
Because if I'm going to be at the gym coaching for two hours,
I might as well have been there for a few hours before to make,

(50:10):
make it worth me driving all the way up there and being there. That makes sense.
Yeah. I train before practice because I don't want to be like you.
I don't want to be there after practice.
Yeah. And it's like, yeah, you, it's hard because you do have to create boundaries.
You really do. Strong boundaries.
One thing that I, that I have learned that it works really well with keeping
your psych. Like if you have to train in the gym afterwards or before,

(50:30):
always have a rocking set of playlists.
Yes, music changes everything. Absolutely. Actually, so this is an interesting
question I've recently started asking.
I haven't asked everybody. I'm trying to remember to ask it.
If there is one album or playlists you could play for an entire session,
what would it be? One album or playlists?

(50:53):
Man, that's tough. I have a lot of really good ones. I'm a music snob, man.
Fair enough. I'm a music snob, and it does change pretty regularly.
Mine recently has been Carter No. 3. Yes, yes.
I feel like it's just a banger from the get-go. There's only one song in there
that's kind of like, it's not great, but if I time my workout where I'm having

(51:14):
my rest, la-la, it's like, okay.
But Carter No. 3 is like, bang. That's what you're going to do.
Yeah, because you start it off, and you're just like, okay, the warm-up is great.
And then the next song and it just keeps flowing and I feel like it just has
a good beat It you know, it's long enough to the whole album is long enough
to where like you can get a full session in like if you like especially if you go in with a plan and.

(51:37):
I like that. Yeah. I'm curious. So I guess late, so lately I've been,
I listened to a lot of really heavy stuff when I'm climbing.
I really like, like I run too.
And I seem to listen to more like house stuff, like trancy stuff when I run.
Oh yeah, I do too. It's better to get into like, you want to get lost.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But when I'm climbing and like trying hard stuff,
I listen to some pretty heavy like base stuff.

(51:57):
I'm really like, especially I've always been a huge fan of Minnesota.
I don't know if you've ever heard of Minnesota.
No, but I will now. So I really like Minnesota. soda and lately I've been listening
to a lot of Ivy lab when I climb. Oh, I know that.
I mean, so I really find that out of Ivy lab. Wow.
I haven't heard that in a long time. I actually just saw them live a few days
ago, but yeah, I've been listening to them a lot while I climbed too.

(52:19):
And there's just, I don't know.
I can think it's the base and stuff that gets me, that gets me amped.
Yeah, I have, I've started a playlist and I'm about to like clean out all my
playlist, but I have these playlists called clip and chains and I have clip
Clip and Chains 1 through 4.
And I'm just like slowly making Clip and Chains 5 or 4 right now. I think it's 5.
But, and Clip and Chains 1 through 4 has all been hip hop.

(52:42):
And so Clip and Chains 5 now is, it's more kind of like indie rock kind of things
like that. I'm struggling to make this playlist.
But I generally try to make the playlist 20 songs, 20 to 30 songs.
So you have like a nice time, like an hour. Yeah, because I find that like 20
to 30 songs, like if I remember correctly here, just doing the math,

(53:03):
like let's just say the average song is what, three and a half minutes long.
So, yeah, so it's like just under, it's just under an hour and a half, 90 minutes.
Perfect workout. out yeah yeah so it's like it's enough you
know especially if you go in with a plan so like an hour and
a half and then like the last like you know 20 minutes

(53:26):
of that or 10 minutes of that I'm usually just like I actually kind of need
silence so I can like stretch and like kind of open up my body and kind of like
make sure I'm not so lost in the music that I'm not like listening to like the
creaks and the aches of my body but yeah so I'd say like 30 I have to look I
think I think they're like 30 songs.
It might be 30 or 40, but needless to say, there's a reason for it. The raining?

(53:50):
No water. Nah, it's just creaky.
But yeah, yeah. I was just curious, but yeah, okay.
Music is a must, especially when I'm going in to do a sesh because I hate to say this too,
but being at the gym as often as I am, I know most of the people there and it's
really hard for me to warm up without getting distracted and stuck in a conversation

(54:14):
conversation and I love to talk to people.
I love talking to all my homies and stuff at the gym, but you know,
I'll be like, you know, I'll be stretching and warming up and then somebody
walks by and I'm like, Hey, how are you?
And then before I know it, I've been talking to him for 15 minutes and I'm like,
there goes my, there goes my warmup. I need to start from ground zero again.
So I like to pop in headphones too, just because it also gives me a little bit of like.
Anonymity when I'm when I'm it's like the library thing like

(54:36):
if someone's at the library and you see your homie but they're wearing
headphones universally you're like exactly I don't talk to
you exactly so you know I'd show up to do something they're like oh he's got headphones in and
I just kind of can keep stretching so not only does do I use the music
to get me pumped but I use it as kind of a as a
way to to keep me focused and not to let people know that
I'm you know yeah it's funny I noticed that's a

(54:56):
universal thing with coaches and people who work in the gym it's
funny mine are always big and obnoxious and it's
like sometimes i literally i'm not actually listening to
anything i was about to say that sometimes i don't even have music going dude
i just got them in yeah it's just so like people know it just creates that barrier
in that space where it's like it creates that boundary and and i want to be

(55:16):
very clear and i think you're the way it seems is like we love everybody in
the gym we love talking oh they're my family yeah yeah like i want to engage
with you like no like if you're hearing me say this and you're someone who's
come up and talk to me while I'm wearing headphones.
I really want to engage with you, but I also want to get my session in.
And it's like, it's one of the reasons why like a lot of my friends like,
man, I want to climb with you.

(55:36):
I'm like, I climb between the hours of 6am to like, like seven or 8am.
And you know, they're like, I'm not getting up that early to go climb. I'm like, sorry.
Like that's just, that's just
what I go like. Yeah. Well, it's also cause the gym is like, it's quiet.
There's barely anybody in there. It's really just staff. Yep.
And then also to, you know, training rope, a few rope partners that I have,

(56:00):
like the gym is just deserted. So I don't have to wait in line.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The world of being a coach is a little
different. It's not too bad.
It's good. It's fun. But there are, I think, you know, boundaries and intent
are probably like the two big things. Totally.
So if you had to give someone advice who wants to become a coach and like they're

(56:23):
considering like someone walks up to you, they're like, man,
I really want to become a climbing coach. Like what would you tell them?
Like how would you tell them to get started? it climb climb
as much as you can be you know immerse yourself
in the climbing world watch videos read look
at magazines I mean climbing is

(56:43):
such a part of me that I mean I think a lot of people at the gym don't realize
how how much of it is is literally my life you know what I mean my entire Instagram
I don't follow most of the people that I work with on my Instagram my My Instagram
is climbing only like I follow mostly climbers on my Instagram.
I have a Facebook for friends.
All my Instagram is, is climbing stuff and me following professional climbers.

(57:07):
You know, when I'm watching videos on YouTube and stuff like that,
I'm usually watching, you know, mellow climbing videos and stuff like that.
You know what I mean? When I'm sitting in my house, I'm, I watch climbing things
a lot. I read about climbing stuff.
Most of my vacations and traveling are revolved around climbing.
You know, it is, it is my life there. everything
I kind of do is somehow revolved around it and so I would say if you are trying

(57:33):
to get into coaching make it part of your life it's not just it's not just a
hobby it's not just a thing it is and I say this I don't know maybe lightly
but it's it's a lifestyle.
You know, a climber is a type of person. I feel like it really is.
And I've also realized that in general, the climbing community is just full of such amazing people.

(57:55):
I have met so many awesome people in the climbing community.
I mean, I'm sure with all communities, it's like that, but pretty much everywhere
I've ever gone without having spoken to the person prior and then finding out
they're a climber, it's an immediate like,
oh, wow, now we have where I feel very connected to you and like,
you know, if you're, if you're a heavy climber and I bump into you at a restaurant

(58:18):
somewhere and we start talking, it's where it's, it's like, we're best friends almost.
We can talk about climbing for a really long time. Yeah, no, it's universal.
It really is. You go to an airport, you see climbers, like, I like,
like you see the hand movements, you see things like talking about boulders.
I'm like, like, like I've been traveling with a friend.
I'm like looking across the airport.
I'm like, they're talking about rock climbing. You can pick them out.
Yeah. And then people, it's like, how do you know? I'm like,
just because they look like mimes. Yep. Or you see their feet. Yeah. Truth.

(58:43):
Truth. But, yeah, man, I would say just immerse yourself in it.
Learn as much as you can. Climb as much as you can. And just,
you know, make it part of your life.
It's so much more than, climbing is just so much more than climbing.
It's, you know, I've learned how to navigate my entire life,
I feel like, kind of through the skills I've learned. Yeah. Through climbing.

(59:07):
Yeah, true, true. Truth. And then, so they've done that and then they've kind
of really gotten into it and they've applied for a job.
What's the one, the next thing you would tell them that they need to,
I guess, like, like what is the next advice that you would give them on the first day on the job?
Get to know your kids, get to know the kids you're teaching,

(59:28):
get to know what their goals are, get to know, you know, where they're at,
what their headspace is,
get to know how, how, you know, again, where they want this to go and,
and, and, you know, feel them out.
So there's, I have kids that I'm like, oh man, you, I have a couple of kids
where I'm like, you are so strong.
You easily could be in the future, the next like professional climber,

(59:52):
but they're not motivated in the competitive aspect of things.
They love climbing. And I'm like, Oh, you're, you're probably going to be one
of those dirt bag people who just loves to get, you're going to be a crusher.
I can see it in you. You're extremely motivated.
You love climbing, but you don't have that competitive aspect.
You just want to go and climb and have fun and love it. And you're always probably

(01:00:12):
going to be super crazy strong, but you just don't want to probably compete.
And then I have the other kids who are like, I want to be the next Yanya.
I want to be on, I want to be in the Olympics. I want to compete.
And I'm like, okay, if that's what you want, I'll do everything in my power
to to get you there and to motivate you and to carry, to keep,
to keep pushing you in that direction.
But same thing for the kids who are like, I just really want to,
I just enjoy climbing and I want to be here because I like my, the community.

(01:00:35):
I like working with you and I just, you know, I like, I like the sport.
Then yeah, I want to continue to feed their stoke and make them strong,
but also like let them know that it's okay that they don't want to be the next
professional climber and everything, you know, and 100%.
And then I also have the kids, like you were saying earlier,
who are just there because their friends are there and they just enjoy climbing.

(01:00:57):
They don't care if one day they're climbing V10 or V15 or anything like that.
I mean, I'm sure they want to get better, but they're not.
There's no desire. There's no desire. They're not. There's not a burn.
There's not a burn. They get better. They get better. Exactly.
And that's OK. That is OK. okay, like figuring out what your students want and
helping them achieve that is the biggest thing that I can tell a new coach to

(01:01:22):
try to figure out because everybody's going to have their different goals.
Everybody's going to kind of be taught, you know, there's different ways to teach all the kids.
Everybody's going to be like respond better to certain teaching methods and
learning the methods that work best for those kids is a big part of it.
And, you know, you might pick that up in a week. You might pick it up after
working with them for a year some of the kids are coaching right now I've worked

(01:01:45):
with for two years I'm still figuring them out and figuring out what motivates
them and figuring out how to get them
Stoked on things and then other kids I'm new right out, you know first day how
to get them pumped and do it you know what I mean, and so I Yeah, I would just say,
Talk to your kids figure out what what gets their gears turning, you know?
Talk to them about their life outside of climbing they you know climbing is

(01:02:08):
not their whole world at least not yet Yeah, it might not be like figure out
what kind of people they are, figure out what kind of stuff they like to do,
figure out what their goals are and just be their friend.
And then after that, once they once you have that connection with them,
it's a lot easier to get them stoked and find out like how to encourage them to achieve their goals.

(01:02:30):
Yeah. And then the last question I have for you in regards to like helping a
new person coming into this injury.
What would you tell them to watch out for personally and like you know like
what do they need to be aware of what are the dangers or the traps or the things
that can make them lose the desire to do this and or or maybe the things that

(01:02:52):
they need to be aware of but like if there is anything.
That's a really good question. Take time. There is no rush for any answer.
I have learned and really tried to keep my, you know, all the kids I teach,
even though they're all on such different levels,
having a good time together and not really competing with each other and like,

(01:03:15):
you know, and singling each other out and saying, you know, I'm better than you.
I'm better than this person. I'm stronger than this person. and kind of not
letting the stronger people in the class be put on a pedestal.
Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Because it, I don't want to say it happens naturally, but... It does.
It kind of does, you know what I mean? The pecking order, I mean,

(01:03:35):
the natural, I mean, order, the natural pecking order always kind of flows out.
It's just, do they handle it with grace or not? Totally, totally.
Making sure, making sure the kids you're teaching that are the strongest kids
in your class or also humble about it is a good thing because it also teaches
the kids who are not as strong to be, you know, humble about themselves.

(01:03:59):
But, and also, you know, giving the kids that aren't the best in the class the
same amount of attention that you might be giving the best kids in the class.
It's really hard to find, smaller classes, it's easy to spread yourself out
and kind of get, you know, if you're only teaching four or five kids,
it's pretty easy to give those four or five kids, like, kind of like you're
all, at your entire attention in the two hours that you're working with them

(01:04:21):
you can kind of bounce around and give some of those kids 100% of your attention
you're teaching a class that's 10 or more it feels hard to be to connect to
some of these kids on a personal level so.
You know, try not, try not to single out the kids that are the strongest kids
and just connect with them.
Make sure you're giving all your kids, you know, the same amount of encouragement

(01:04:41):
and same amount of attention. Make sure nobody feels left out.
Make sure that the kids who aren't as strong don't feel like they're being,
you know, overshadowed by the kids who are the strongest in your class.
Try to create, I really try to create a, you know, a community and like camaraderie
between all the kids in the class and make sure that the strongest kids are
encouraging the weaker kids and vice versa.
And that everybody is stoked for everybody's sins, not just the person who's

(01:05:03):
working that, you know, V8 or whatever, and they finally get their project.
I want, whenever that kid gets his V8 and everybody's stoked about it,
I want the same amount of stoke that goes into that, that for the,
from the class to be there when that other kid sends their very first V2.
I want all the kids in the class to be just as stoked about it and know that
this kid worked hard to get there.
And I want them to appreciate that and like, you know, be there for each other.

(01:05:27):
I mean, that has been, navigating that has been an interesting thing for me
and trying to get all my kids kind of on that same level of encouragement with each other.
I think I've gotten the hang of it finally, but figuring it out and how to.
No, I mean, it's a, it's a, I mean, group dynamics is, is very,
very, very, very, very calm.
It is, it is an art more than it is a science.

(01:05:47):
I would say that is an art by far more than it is a science.
It is. It's taken, it's taken a second for me to understand that I came into
coaching with such a different mindset than I have right now.
What was your mindset that you came in with? What I came in,
so for starters, I came into coaching, my friend offered me kind of,
you know, he was like, hey, would you like to start coaching at our gym?
And immediately I was like, yes, you know, I used to compete.

(01:06:09):
My head went right to competitive team. I was like, yeah, I want to,
I want to coach the best of the best. I want to coach the kids that are trying
to be the best climbers in the world.
Yes, that's what I want to do. I want to turn these little kids into monsters,
which again, I do do that. I do that currently.
I turn most of my kids that I coach, I'm turning into monsters. masters.
I train them very hard, especially the kids who want to get good.
I push them right to that limit.

(01:06:31):
And I know there are limits, but you know, I came into it like thinking that,
and then I kind of found out, oh wait, you're not going to be coaching competitive team.
You're going to be working with kind of our rec team. And these kids who are
just like, they're here for fun.
You can't just jump right into coaching a competitive team. Like a lot goes into that.
The coach that we have been, you know, they like picked him out and basically
offered him a job when he was living in Dallas. And we're like, we want you.

(01:06:53):
So that's, you know, that's a big deal. He's got a, you know,
he's got a history of coaching and he's has a lot, there's a lot of weight behind his name.
People know who he is. He worked with team Texas and things like that.
And so for me to be like, okay, I guess I'm not working with competitive team.
I'm working with kids who are just kind of here for fun.
That was a little bit of a shocker to me. I was like, do I want to do that?
Do I want to work with kids who are not really serious about it?

(01:07:15):
And then the lady who was in charge of the youth program has kind of told me,
you make your class what you want to make it.
If you want to just come in here and kind of babysit these kids and spend time
with them, then right on.
If you want to find, you know, if you want to come in here and work with these
kids and turn them into little climbing monsters, then do that. It's your class.
You know, I respect you and I trust you. You do what you, as long as you're

(01:07:37):
being a good person and you know, not teaching these kids how to climb,
do whatever works for you.
And so figuring out that, you know, how to figuring out what I was going to do with that.
And then learning that I can take these kids who are just kind of in here for
fun and turn them into these kids that might want to be these world-class climbers also is a thing.

(01:07:59):
But I, you know, like I said, I was a little, I was a little bummed when I heard
that, but then I was like, Like, you know what, that's okay.
Cause I'm, I'm working with kids who don't already have that drive and I can
help them find that drive.
And so as kind of like what you were saying, not just the people who are trying
to be the best climbers in the world or the ones who are there for fun, it's the middle.
And that's kind of where I found myself being was in that middle grouping and

(01:08:22):
being like, this is the most important part.
The kids who are already, you know, working to be the best in the world,
they already know that's what they want. They are self-motivated.
You don't have to push them really much at all. You're literally pushing them to train harder.
You're there to say, you can do this, you can do this, and making sure they're
training correctly. They already have the fire.
You don't have to stoke it. Yeah, agreed. Those middle kids,

(01:08:42):
those are the ones who are kind of unsure about things. They're like,
you know, I like this, but I don't know.
Or I kind of feel like I'm getting better, but I don't know.
That is exactly like what you were saying. That is where the coaching really
comes into play because getting those kids motivated is everything, man.
Yeah, no, no. I 100% agree with you.

(01:09:04):
Limit, what is it? New York cut states are great, but there's more ground beef
and everyone loves a burger.
Exactly. And so I think that's the thing that, you know, is important and understanding
that by growing that section grows your program. Totally. That is what makes it go good.
Totally. And they're kind of the community of. Oh, yeah, they are.
That is the community. They grow up to be the primary members of the gym.

(01:09:25):
The ones who are like, eh, they're kind of for fun. But they're kind of,
you know, they've been climbing for years.
Yep. I mean, like, how many people do you meet? Like, yeah, I climbed on team for a while.
And then, you know, that's it. Or how many people do you meet?
Like, yeah, I was in a youth program and I just still climb to this day. Yeah, no, that's just.
They do it. You got them for life kind of. And you're turning these kids into climbers.
And you're building the climbing community and the future of climbing with these kids.

(01:09:48):
And if I want the climbing community to be as awesome as it was for me and to
continue to get better and more encouraging and inviting to people who aren't already part of it,
then I'm the person who gets to build the foundation for the future generation
of the climbing community.
And I love that. Agreed. Agreed.
Drew, I want to thank you for your time. And I would definitely love to talk

(01:10:10):
with you again. And I want to catch up with you next time I'm in town.
But do you have a shout out? Do you want to say hello to anybody?
I mean, my platform is your platform. I mean, you got the mic right now,
so if not, I mean, you can go full ghost status, it's up to you.
You know, a big, big shout out to my family, my mom and my dad,
for giving me the unique opportunity that I'm in right now to be the coach that

(01:10:30):
I am, because if it weren't for them,
I would probably be a lot more strapped financially and I wouldn't be able to
have the same mentality that I do right now.
To share with my kids and have the same kind of love and energy and bubbly personality
that I kind of have that transfers over into my kids.
If I was always stressed about money and if I was always stressed about bills,

(01:10:52):
I'm not sure I'd be able to be as good of a coach in all honesty.
And so I really am appreciative of my parents for giving me the opportunity
to be a coach right now, as well as my friend Dylan Stone, who is essentially
the person who got me into coaching.
He picked me out of the gym and the crowd and said, hey, dude,

(01:11:12):
I think you would be a good coach.
Would you want to do this? And if it weren't for him, I would probably not be
coaching at all. Thank you, Dylan. Yeah. Thanks, Dylan. I really appreciate you, man.
Music.

(01:11:34):
Friends and enemies lovers and haters i hope you enjoyed this episode of two
coaches talking shop about why they love to give back to the community please
remember we are selling sends and tougher t-shirts get your t-shirt 30 bucks
five dollars for shipping and handling I'll get that out to you.
And remember, we are posting episodes bi-monthly right now. Not every week, not once a month.

(01:11:58):
Trying to keep up something that I can keep on keeping.
I'm going to get out of here before I ramble. And remember, if you're not suffering,
I mean, was that sun really even worth it at all? I mean, you got to ask yourself.

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