Empire Records - S10 E75

Get ready to "Damn the man! Save the Empire!" because this week on Shoot The Hostage, Dan and Sarah are diving deep into the gloriously messy, utterly 90s, and undeniably flopped cinematic experience that is Empire Records (1995).

It’s not quite Rex Manning Day just yet, depending on when you're listening, but we're close enough to celebrate this box-office flop that holds a special, possibly embarrassing, place in at least one of our hearts.

Join us as we try to figure out why this ensemble piece, directed by Allan Moyle and written by Carol Heikkinen, starring a fresh-faced bunch including Liv Tyler, Renèe Zellweger, Robin Tunney, Ethan Embry... and even a fleeting credit for a certain Tobey Maguire (who may or may not have been lost to the 90s haze on set) failed to ignite the box-office despite its killer soundtrack.

Expect the usual blend of questionable observations and sarcastic commentary as we dissect this quintessential movie released in the 90s. We also ponder:

• Questionable romantic gestures involving feet
• Sarah's nostalgic love for this film and Dan's slow but steady descent into not-quite-hate
• Our general bewilderment at the sheer volume of music crammed into 90-odd minutes
• Comparisons to the Breakfast Club (which we covered – check it out)
• And why this might have flopped at the box-office

If you're a fan of hangout movies in the vein of Richard Linklater's character-driven narratives or the retail-centric vibes of early Kevin Smith flicks, you might find something to love (or at least tolerate) in Empire Records.

So, tune in for spoilers aplenty, personal anecdotes, and a deep dive into a film that may have flopped at the box office but definitely left a lasting impression (on some of us, anyway). You might even find yourself wanting to celebrate Rex Manning Day after listening… or maybe not. You’ve been warned!

Season 10 runs until May 26th with 10 episodes this time

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot a Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie. So, only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast. player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at swth_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh Over to me and Sarah for this week's episode.

(00:01):
Happy Rex Manning Day.
Not quite. Or is it?
Well, it depends when you're listening.
That's a good point.
If you're listening on release day on a Monday, unless you live in Australia, in which case you're in the future, then uh Rex Manning Day is tomorrow, the 8th of April. If you're listening to on on the 8th of April, then happy Rex Manning Day. We're on or around Rex Manning Day at time of release.
Yeah.
And that's good enough for me.
It's definitely good enough for me as somebody who fervently celebrates Rex Manning Day every single year.
Yeah. Something I was not familiar with until uh you and I met and you told me about Rex Manning Day and I was like, "What the f***** Rick Rex Manning Day?" You went, "It's a Empire Records thing." And I said, "Oh, I haven't seen Empire Records."
Said, "What the f***** Empire Records?"
I knew what it was. I remember that poster from when I was a teenager. But yeah, no surprise. This is your pick this week in our season of Flops.
Yep. Back to me.
Yeah. Third film in a season. Back to you, Empire Records. Off you go.
Oh my god. Don't do that to me. Don't do that to me.
Why Why' you pick it? First question. love it. I picked it because I love this movie and I think perhaps so we're only three episodes into Flops and I think The Thing is perhaps a bit of an outlier.
Yeah,
because
I think that's a genuinely brilliant film. Now, I am an Empire Records apologist. I make no bones about that. But do I think it's an excellent film? No. No, I don't.
I think it's kind of a mess.
You are correct in some of those words you just said.
Uh yeah, I mean some of it was opinion based, so I would say I'm correct in all of it.

(00:22):
I listen I I don't never saw this. I don't quite know why I didn't see it. I was definitely aware of it when it came out. What 95?
Yes.
So we're in the mid '90s. I was 11 years old.
Mhm.
I I probably wasn't aware of it upon cinema release.
I feel like it was maybe the year after. in the I feel like 90 summer 96 is where I'm kind of placing it in my mind. Broken Arrow sort of season if you were a John Travolta.
Oh my god. Stop with the John Travolta. Stop it.
I don't know why he comes up so much.
Neither do I.
But yeah, I I don't know. I sort of placed it around then and I think possibly I I was staying around one of my mates houses and his older brother had potentially rented it
and maybe we had rented Broken Arrow and that's maybe why I'm getting the two. Uh
his older brother Empire Records.
Yeah. But by
and you, an 11year-old, rented Broken Arrow,
but but but by like a year,
right? Okay.
But I don't I don't quite know why I never watched it. I think it just sort of passed me by. Other than that, didn't really think about it too much, but the poster is kind of firmly in my brain and and an image that I've just sort of recognized for decades at this point. And
I think when the first time you and I sat sat down to watch it, it was actually Rex Manning Day, I believe. Yeah.
And it has been every year except for one
when you were away.
When I was in Scotland. Yeah.

(00:43):
Um
I think you planned that personally.
You just wanted a year off.
I I purposely got a job in Scotland, moved there for 6 weeks just so I could avoid watching Empire Records and celebrating Rex Manning Day with you.
Yeah.
I would never go to those lengths.
I would not put that past you at all. Really?
I'm not I'm still not sure that job existed.
I think you just wanted the holiday from me.
It's on telly. Yeah. You've not watched it yet?
No, but some people have watched it. My boss has watched it. He said it's good.
Yeah. So, I I saw it for the first time a few years ago. About I guess five years ago. Four four or five years ago.
And I didn't I didn't love it. I'll be honest with you. But we'll get into it, I'm sure. But I don't know if you're kind of just beating me into submission with it. Like it's got to a point now where I'm just like, "Yeah, it's it's got a ch it's got a certain chance. to it. I can sort of see the
It does.
Yeah, totally. There's a couple of f****** annoying parts of it which again we'll get into.
Lucas
and the I was going to say Broadick Matthew Lillard's clone not clone.
Yeah.
But uh there's something about it. Maybe it's partly the the energy that you give off when you're watching it cuz you're like save the empire. Damn the man. And doing all these quotes and it's quite adorable to watch and I I can sort of feed off your excitement a little bit as well. There's there's part of that. I don't How do you feel when we're watching Terminator 2 together and I'm like, "Ah, it's a bit he pulls his skin off."
Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying, but also I love Terminator 2, so that's
it's not like you have to twist my arm to watch that movie.

(01:04):
No, I I just think the more I see it and the more familiar I've become of it, it's it's not like a film you have to sit down and concentrate on every single scene. No,
it's a hangout movie,
which Yeah. I love as you know,
it's totally your vibe. Yeah. And I think I just I still don't think it's an e excellent movie. I just have got a bit of a soft spot for it now.
That's interesting.
I can't say I was expecting it too much. And it wasn't until this time that it really was like, damn it, I'm kind of enjoying this.
Oh, wow. Okay. Interesting.
Was you not expecting that?
No, not at all.
Oh, did you expect me to do a giant turd on it?
Not a giant turd. A small turd.
Tiny turd.
Yeah. A pebble like a rabbit poo.
All right.
I Right. So, there was a series of like fortunate occurrences that happened to me. Um, I saw this film completely by accident the first time I was 13. Me and my friend Elizabeth went to Blockbuster to rent a movie on a Saturday evening. Believe it or not, we'd intended to rent a movie that hardly anybody's ever heard of called The Cure, which was like a boyhood body comedy AIDS drama. Um,
laugh a minute then.
Yeah.
Right.
And when we got home, we opened the box and they'd put Empire Records in instead.
I think they did that on purpose
to to spare us.

(01:25):
Yeah. Um
they're like, "You don't want to watch this."
But I did I did actually watch The Cure and I cried. I cried my little heart out.
Okay.
Um but we would My dad was just like, "I'm not. There's no way I'm driving you back. That's it. you're stuck with it. So, we were like, "f*** it. We'll just play it." Because I'd never heard of it.
Um, so we popped it in the VCR anyway because what else were we going to do? And we just like were subdued into silence for 90 odd minutes.
And when it finished, we were like, should we rewind it and watch it again? And we watched it again immediately.
Straight away.
Straight away.
That's what I did with Bad Boys.
This is my Bad Boys.
This is your Bad Boys.
Yeah.
Fascinating. And you were How old? then
13
13, right? So, yeah. Okay.
And similarly, I've warmed to bad boys.
Yeah. So, I suppose so. But maybe that's a little bit of that effect as well and I'm like, "Oh, we're just shiny dick with two chairs in it." You're like, "Oh, here he goes." You know, it's adorable, isn't it?
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I It's funny like you saw it all those years ago. My first experience was just a couple of years ago.
I don't know if I'd have seen it when I was a teenager. Maybe I maybe I don't know. Whether I would have liked it or not, I can't tell. It's It's tricky because I do I do like some Hangout movies, I think. Do I Do I though?
What What are we talking with Hangout movies? We're talking Link Later. We're talking Smith.

(01:46):
Well, so interestingly, the other sort of cir the other thing that came off the back of this just very quickly um was I became obsessed with Kevin Smith and his films in the I would say late 90s, early 2000s, you know, back when he was still sort of a reasonable. He's never been a good filmmaker.
Pre-tusk.
Pre copout.
Pre- cop out. That's a good shout. Yeah.
And um actually, no. Pre Jersey girl.
All right.
I'll say pre Jersey girl. But yeah, I was obsessed. And I remember I think it must have been something like Empire magazine because I I was like rabbid about collecting all the film magazines back then as well, but there weren't too many out. And there was a review of Empire Records and some somebody likened it to Clerks, which had obviously been a couple years prior to that, in a kind of like a day in the life of retail workers, and they said that Clerks was the far superior film. So, that's that's kind of what spurred that on because I went and rented that on VHS from the library, like the little nerd that I was.
Um, and yeah, that's what started my my infatuation with Kevin Smith back then as well. So,
Empire Records was responsible for that, too.
So, gateway movie for you to a lot of other well hangout type situations. Did you see what about um
and then and then again probably it was kind of reading Kevin Smith's reverence for people like Linkletter is what led me to kind of dig out Slacker and Dazed and Confused.
Oh, so you kind of went backwards through the timeline.
I did. Yes.
I don't think I've seen Slacker. Have I seen it?
I don't believe so.
I'm not sure you'd like it. It's It's not There's no story. There's no plot. It's just you follow one character, they bump into somebody else, then you follow the other person. Like, it's just character hopping.
Yeah. Right. Cuz I, while we were just having this little chat, my brain was working in the background and really trying to figure out if actually I do like Hangout movies cuz I can't actually think of any off the top of my head that I love.
We've covered one.
Breakfast Club.
Yeah,
it's fine.

(02:07):
Yeah, the Empire Records actually gets compared to Breakfast Club quite a bit.
Yeah, it's kind of a single location. Bunch of annoying people stuck in a room together.
Yeah. Some are more endearing than others.
Yeah.
But unlike Breakfast Club, the Goth Girl does not get a makeover.
Yeah.
Which I appreciate,
but I don't I don't know if the hangout genre is really for me thinking about it and while we've been talking, clerk, I think I prefer Empire Records to Clerks now at this point. I only saw Clerks for the first time
very recently when you introduced me to it and I'm kind of like, yeah. I find it a bit a bit hard to watch. I don't find it very interesting to be honest.
I don't love it as much as I used to. I'll always have a fondness for those movies because of I I guess they sort of shaped who I am in a way. They had they played a small part in that.
Well, yeah. A lot of people wrap their identity around these Kevin Smiths and Link Later types movies, don't they?
Yeah. Stuff that you saw in your formative years is is bound to have an impact.
And dazed and confused. Um, that's something I think we watched together as well. See, I think I think a bunch of these I just never saw.
Yeah.
I I guess they never really appealed to me a great deal, so I never sort them out.
And when I did see them, I was like, it's all right. Bit d though, isn't it?
What's that? What's that Ben Stiller one? Is that a hangout movie?
Reality bites.
Reality bites. Is that
I wouldn't call that a hangout movie. No.
Who made that? Is that link later?

(02:28):
No, that was Ben Stiller.
Oh, he directed that.
He did. Yeah.
Before the cable guy.
Yes. Right. Okay.
Uh yeah. Yeah. Would have been a year or two before.
Okay.
I I don't know. The all those films are kind of the same ilk, but yeah, I wouldn't call that one a hangout movie.
Um
which one do I like? It's really bothering me now.
You're just like there must be one.
I guess the Breakfast Club is my favorite and I don't like it that much.
Yeah,
I own it and we've covered it. It's all like it's all right. We spoke about that in the Breakfast Breakfast Club show. So go and listen to that if if you give a f*** about my opinion on it.
Um I'll Just scanning your Blu-rays. There must be a hangout movie.
Ridge. Is that a hangout movie? No.
Captain America Civil War. What? No.
Um,
well, I guess you could call it a hanger out movie cuz they are in a a hanger for a while.
A German airport. They are very good.
I don't I don't think I own many Hangout movies. You, on the other hand, own quite a few, I think.

(02:49):
Mhm.
I'm a big fan of just character-driven day in the life kind of things. I think they have to be either well written or fast-paced enough to keep me interested or as with Empire Records, just baked in nostalgia.
Is Is it baked in nostalgia? Is that a personal thing to you though? Is that because you it was like the first one of these that you saw and it got you into a bunch of other stuff? Is that why it's nostalgic to you? Because it's I was thinking about this the other day
and It was it it was a contemporary piece when it was made. It was like we watch it now and obviously if it was made today it'd be a period piece. So there would be some s sort of nostalgia link with it if it got remade today.
And I think that it's not a bad idea to remake something like this to be honest with you. But maybe we'll maybe we'll talk about that later.
But the um the nostalgia for you is more of your personal viewing of it,
seeing it through your teenage eyes.
Oh yeah, massively. Massively. Yeah.
Just just the the age I was at, the the place and the time, like everything kind of lined up for me. Um, it's wild to me that it's 30 years old now
cuz I know it is sort of steeped in the '9s that is, you know, the the costumeuming, the the set design, the music, very much the music. It's all very very very 90s. You think? I don't find it to be that dated.
I was I don't think it is very ' 90s. I think I think So yeah, some of the clothing, some of the haircuts, the attitudes on honestly some of the attitudes in it.
Uh but outside of that, I don't really know what's dating it. Some of the music, but then you've got like an AC/DC in there, which is like a 79 album, so that's not really '90s.
Some Jimmyi Hendris in there, too.
Yeah, exactly. There's some Hendrickx in the last movie we covered. Hrix um movies in movies.
So I don't know. It doesn't doesn't feel like a particularly ' 90s movie to me. But then again, I don't really feel like we've moved on that much aside from a smartphone and a laptop from the '90s.
Oh, a hard disagree.
Really? What do you think's different?
Everything.
You like what? Big Macs. They're smaller.
Yeah, everything's smaller and more expensive.
Yeah.

(03:10):
No, I think everything's wildly different.
Maybe it is. And I'm just too old to notice now.
Yeah. Um Yeah. It was It's interesting actually because a film I I imagine is going to keep coming up throughout this episode is Dazed and Confused.
Yeah.
Because that was made a couple years before obviously we mentioned Richard Linklatter already. This is it's kind of referenced indirectly in Empire Records but has three actors in common.
Oh, three.
Three.
I know one. One's Rory Cochr.
He would not appreciate that. Dan Rory Cochran. Um James Kimo Wills.
Who is that?
Uh, the guy who plays Eddie.
Who is that?
The guy with the long hair.
They've all got long hair.
The guy with the longest hair who gives Mark the pop brownies.
The The one that is Lift Tyler's dad.
No.
Not Steven Tyler. No. Right. Okay.
Right. I That guy. Sure.
The other one. Um, and Renee Zelwiger had like a bit part. She was sort of non-speaking, but I believe you can see her in the background of a scene or something. interesting
because she was actually dating Rory Cochran

(03:31):
really
when they they met on the set of Ded and Confused. Um, rumor has it that he got her the part in Empire Records.
Oh,
yeah.
Okay. So, it definitely was uh a fan like the the filmmakers of um Empire Records were a fan of the genre and that movie in particular. I'm guessing like that it can't be an accident that those people were in that movie and in this movie as well. When was what year was Dazed and confused? Roughly
93, I think.
Is he for some reason I feel like it's uh it's way older than that.
I mean, it's set in the 70s, so
that's probably why. Yeah. Is that the one with Ben Affleck in it?
Yeah.
Is he a Is he a douchebag? Yes. Doesn't really narrow it down.
No, it doesn't. But yes, he is.
Yeah. Yeah. I It's obviously It's It's fully intentional, I'm guessing. Or or it could just be that those were the people that were kind of popular at that time. Although, like maybe Never heard of any of them until I saw Empire Records apart from Rene Zelwiger because she's in Bridget Jones Diary,
which you love. Obviously,
that's my favorite movie. Yeah, I love I love that trilogy.
That film where she's a totally normalsized woman and everybody can't stop talking about how disgustingly fat she is.
Yeah, there's a new one out now. We We Oh, good.
We avoided that, didn't we? Didn't get that on the Patreon feed, did you?
No.
No. And you never f****** will.
Um, but yeah, the the last thing also is there's Um, there's a little sign on one of the tills in the the record shop that has the dazed and confused acid face.

(03:52):
That's not a dazed and confused, but that's just an acid face.
No, no, but it is the one from the front cover and it's got the same background and everything and it says have a nice days,
right? Okay. Isn't it also the cover for the Ivan Wrightman film Evolution?
No.
But but yes.
No. Well, isn't it also the front cover for the little scene Anna Ferris stoner comedy? Smiley face.
Yes.
Kind of. Yes. But no, not really.
Yes. I I think I've seen that movie. I think
it's terrible.
Is it? I think I liked it.
Oh dear. Were you high?
No, definitely not. So, you're you're a big fan of this movie.
It's something that speaks to your childhood. It reminds you of a simpler time.
I think between this and Labyrinth, I'm not sure which one, but I think this might be the film I've seen the most.
Right. Okay.
Which I know I sort of talked in the last episode about not having guilty pleasures and that's a stupid idea. We shouldn't feel guilty about things we enjoy. However,
to say that Empire Records is the film I've seen the most is vaguely embarrassing.
Is it I I sort of get it though. Like if you saw it when you were that age, if I'd have seen this when I was that age and I had liked it, I would have watched it every day
and that just would have been the case. I can't do that with films anymore, even if I do love them.
Yeah.

(04:13):
Which is weird, isn't it, that we don't can't Is that just because there are more things now or is it because we our adult brains are just like, "No, f*** that. We watched it yesterday."
I don't know. Because I think the reason why we don't rewatch stuff more often is because you don't want to. Cuz there's a bunch of stuff like I I have made a point of trying to buy all my favorite films of last year already.
Yeah.
And I would have probably re-watched all of them by now. Well, We have watched Ricky Steniki twice in
a year. Oh, that is embarrassing. I don't think the Farrellly brothers have seen it twice in a year.
It's f****** funny.
That front half is um loaded with jokes.
That's one of the funniest films in the last 5 years. Sorry,
we we stand rock hard rod on this podcast.
I don't. Yes, I uh am I do I not like re I guess I don't really like re-watching movies an awful lot. I We've rewatched some, haven't we? Ricky Staniki, obviously.
Uh, well, you brought me Civil War. We've not watched that. We haven't watched that. No, I'd be up for watching that. Which which ones are you keen to rewatch?
Um, Love Lies Bleeding, Monkey Man. Uh,
but they're movies I didn't really like.
Well, maybe that's the difference then. Blink Twice.
Yeah, I like Blink Twice. Yeah. Okay, that's Yeah, that's fair. I mean, we can put that on if you like, I guess. Or we could put Bad Boys on again.
Oh, here we go. We could just watch Empire Records. How about that?
Do you know what? Like, if you said to me, "Let's put this on again tonight," I wouldn't fight you about it.
That's crazy how quick of a turnaround you've had in just a couple years.
I've get a a quick turnaround in a couple of years. That's like seven views.
No, I've I've seen this now what, four, four times? Five times?
I think four.

(04:34):
There are some films in my collection that I've not seen four times. Yeah, there's some there's a lot of films I haven't seen once to be honest with you, but
but I I it's I think The more I watch it, the more just breezy I'm finding it to watch. Like
it's such an easy watch.
It's You don't really have to pay attention too much. You can dip in and out. Particularly as far as you're concerned because you've seen it so many times, you know, like the back of your hand.
Y
I could sort of dip in and out, make some dinner, come back in
uh 20 minutes later and oh, there the bit where they're doing the little dance in the in the shop to that s*** song. Um
Oh, it's Evan Collins again. Go back out.
Hate that song. It's just quite Yeah, it's uh it's not a tricky I don't hate watching it. The more I've seen it, the more I'm just kind of letting it happen rather than being resistant to it. Now, the caveat is I f****** hate Lucas and I hope he dies in a houseire.
Just Lucas.
Just the character, not the actor. I'm sure he's a great actor. Rory c*******. We saw him in that that film about the killer moose. I don't can't remember what it was called. You remember the big moose? Had the bit antlers.
It was called Antlers. Yeah, that's right.
And um
the film about the Wendigo.
Big moose.
Is it called a Wendyo?
Yeah.
Is that That's like a a sea with the horn. What's that called?
What?
The unicorn. Isn't that It's not real.
It's not a real thing.

(04:55):
No.
Wendy goes a fake.
Uh, depends who you talk to. But yeah,
but it's based on a moose.
No. Do you know what a moose is?
I thought it was like a a mammal with uh like horns that come out of it.
Horns that look like twigs. Oh my god.
Like a Christmas mammal.
I'm making myself sound stupid here. Let's move on.
A Christmas mammal. Oh, I love it. We need a We need a line of merch immediately.
Why? What are we going to put on on a t-shirt?
Christmas mammal.
Let's do it.
Rudolph the Christmas mammal.
Anyone can write f****** words on t-shirts these days. You see the s*** that f****** Tublic have got on their website.
Oh my god.
Um, so obviously We've already mentioned this was your choice.
Mhm.
You love it.
Something was very special to you,
but it's also a flop and which is one of the reasons or the main reason I guess it was included in this lineup.

(05:16):
There's a chance it might be the biggest flop this season. You know,
I was thinking that too. It might be. Maybe we'll review that at the end of the season.
Perhaps in a rap show. We'll do a I'll do a spreadsheet. Ah, yeah. I'll get to do a spreadsheet. go.
Uh, yeah, I think you might be right. So, the budget was 10 million,
an approximate 10 million. Apparently, it made about 250,000,
right?
If that that might be generous.
More than Police Academy 7.
Yeah, I think they may have rounded up for that. Um, I spent some time talking to Chat GBT this week because I was desperate to find out how much the music budget was.
Oh, yeah.
It was useless. AI has failed me. I couldn't find any information. anywhere about how much they they likely spent on the licensing rights, but it had to be astronomical, right?
It must be considering the the amount of songs there are in this.
Yeah. The sheer volume I remember. So, obviously when I was a kid and I watched this like every other day, I also ordered the CD soundtrack because I loved the soundtrack and I was so excited and then it arrived and there were like 13 songs on it.
M. And I knew because I'd counted in the credits that there were at least 50 songs in the film.
Good lord.
Yeah, I was that person. But yeah, there's like 50 60 tracks on the soundtrack.
There's a lot. And it does churn through them as well. And there's a there's even a couple of good ones.
There's loads of good ones. I think this soundtrack like is full of bangers and also Edwin Collins.
Do you?
I do.
I like AC/DC, but I bet that wasn't on a soundtrack.

(05:37):
It wasn't? No. There was Jimmyi Hendris. I don't know if the cranberries were It was mostly like the smaller stuff like
Pete Burns.
Pete Burns wasn't on this.
Was it? Who?
You thinking of the Bugles?
Bugles
video killed the radio star.
I'm thinking of you spinning me. Right.
That wasn't on this, was that?
Is that not in this?
No.
Maybe. I'm thinking of the wedding singer.
Yeah. I mean, they're fairly interchangeable, aren't they?
Was it Was it a video killed a radio star?
Yeah.
Oh, okay. That's the only thing I could think of that you might be um confusing it with.
Was it at the start of the movie?
It's fairly near the start. Yeah,
that's probably it.
As they're setting up for Rex Manning Day.
Yeah, I think that was it.

(05:58):
Do you know why they chose April 8th for Rex Manning Day?
I No, no idea.
So, apparently at a reunion screening, um I don't know where, don't know when, but Ethan Embry was asked and said that it was decided that it would be April 8 because it was the day that Kurt Cobain killed himself that in 1994 year prior.
I thought that was April the 4th.
Well, have you got time for me to Google it?
I'm going to Google it now.
If it's incorrect, then I've lost all faith in Ethan Embry.
When did Kurt with a K?
Yeah. When did
with a K.
When did Courtney Love have Kurt Cobain murdered? I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
Oh. Oh, no. Yeah. on April. This this is weird. Date of death, 5th of April, 1994. But then it says on April 8th, 1994, uh Kurt Cabain was found.
Oh, right. Okay. Okay. So, that was when he was found,
right?
Okay. Ethan Embra, you are relieved. Not in a not in a a handshand type way.
You didn't need to to specify.
I did. I did.
But thank you.
I did.
I appreciate the motion that you did as well that our listeners can't see.
I'm glad this isn't being filmed.

(06:19):
Me, too. Me too.
So it was um it was uh in honor of Kirk Cavane. I'm sure he's thrilled that Empire Records
has had a day a madeup day called Rex Manning Day in
about a washed up has been 80s singer
played by Maxwell Corfield.
Yes.
Who's in other things I guess
who's in Greece too.
Greece. He's a Greece is he?
Yeah.
That's interesting I guess.
Who do you think uh Rex Manning was? ly based on my my best guess is probably like a Tom Jones type.
Yeah, Tom Jones. A Wayne Newton perhaps.
Wayne Newton.
Uh a uh Neil Ail Diamond.
Okay.
Perhaps if you will. Did he do a frilly shirt situation in a tight trousers?
Probably
a horn blower. Maybe.
Was that Sha Bean?
Was he a horn blower? Did he have the tight trouser? Oh, no. He's a sharp I think.

(06:40):
Are you thinking of you and Griffith.
Lone Griffith. Yeah, my mind's going all over the place. Keep me on track.
Yeah, ADHD brain has taken over.
I uh Yeah, Tom Jones, I think, is probably the best shout for that. Do you think he did you was there any information any concrete information that Ethan Embrace said?
No, I couldn't find anything, sadly.
Um, so you've already mentioned that you despise Lucas.
Yeah.
Do you just find him obnoxious?
I do. You know what it is? I think that And I hate to admit it.
Is it the fact that he's dressed like Steve Jobs?
Yeah.
Well, the turtleneck doesn't do him any favors. I think honest honestly I think it's probably that out of all of the characters, he's the one that most reminds me of teenage me.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I think so.
Bit know it all. Bit of a just a smiley thinks he's really smart and clever and stuff and just says stupid s*** but thinks it's genius. I think that's probably what I was
I don't get that vibe. It's funny how you've taken that read of it. I think I I don't know. Maybe it's just my my overwhelming love for this movie that's making me view all of the characters in a more affectionate way, but I don't I don't get that vibe at all. He's he's annoying, don't get me wrong.
I guess he's our main character, right? Is he the first character that we see?
He is.
And the first thing that he does is gamble away n grand in Atlantic City.
Yes. That's not his own money. No, it's Joe's Anthony, famous Australian actor Anthony Leaglia.
I didn't know he was Australian until about 5 years ago. You know,

(07:01):
Australians are so good at being Americans.
I know.
And all the Americans think Australians are British.
Yeah.
Full circle.
Oh, I didn't know they had an accent. Everybody's got an accent, Karen.
Um, so yeah, I guess he's our main character. He's the one that we're supposed to follow. He looks at the camera at one point and is He's definitely
There's a couple of like fourth wall breaks in this movie.
Are they all by him?
No, at least one of them is Mark,
right? Yeah. Okay. He Yeah, Lucas is definitely the person that we're meant to be following. And I guess if there is a story, he's the instigator of that story in in a way. And I just I find him quite annoying to watch. But you you don't find him annoying. You find him
No, I do find him annoying, but I don't hate him
as a result of that.
Do you know what I think? is I think it's it's it's honestly partly that I think it reminds me of me as a teenager if I'm being perfectly honest.
Okay.
Because you know when when you get really annoyed at something, really angry at something, it's usually because it's hit a nerve somehow.
My dad always used to say, I don't know if he was like stealing the phrase from somebody else probably. Um but he always said we hate most in others the traits we see in ourselves.
Well, yeah, that's that's exactly right. I think and when I get that like oh It's probably something that I need to look deeper into.
At least you're self-aware about it.
Well, I wasn't until I and until this week when I was thinking about it
until Empire Records,

(07:22):
why does he annoy me so much? And I think that's honestly what it is. But honestly,
he says some stupid s*** in this. And it doesn't make any sense. So, I'm just like, what are you talking about, you absolute moron?
Does it not make sense given the the nugget of backstory that kind of unrolls for him?
Not to me. Well, like I I guess you're getting at the fact that he was a uh child without parent. What's the name of that? I forget the words.
Um well, it sounds like his his mom Yeah. just gave him up for adoption,
right? Okay.
But not until he was like 10,
which has got to be so traumatic.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then it sounds like he was kind of taken in by Joe. So there's more there's a hint of like a more father son dynamic going on between those two.
So He He got taken in by by Joe and then he robbed n grand off him.
But he thought he was doing the right thing.
Why? Why though?
Because he's an idiot. They're all like They're all teenagers.
Yeah.
I think
I I just the and the stupid s***. The stupid what he thinks is smart s***. Like bringing us a cushion when he's walking. That That is the sort of thing that I would have done.
Not the whole couch.
Not the whole Exactly. That's exactly the sort of thing that I would have done at that age. Be like cleverer than you. I Yeah, I hate it. I hate him. I hate him. I don't know if there's actually anyone in this cast that I that I love.
That was going to be my next question.
I I think um I do like Joe. I think Le Paglia is

(07:43):
really good
and I do like his character and I like the way that he sticks up for all of his employees, stroke foster kids.
They're a weird little misfit family.
They're like a family. Yeah. So, I do I do like that dynamic and I enjoy his kind of overarching role. I just wish he had more presence in it and we had less of the some of the other children in it. I can't stand the way um Ethan Embra goes like that when he puts that song on and I I just sometimes I'm falling asleep at night and I'll wake up and I'll think about it and oh god you that
he's your sleep paralysis demon.
That I find infuriating. But then I love the gu bit.
I I'm biased because I was deeply in love with Mark when I was a teenager.
That was fascinating.
Yeah. And honestly, Stillwood would Ethan Embry today. Stillwood.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was in that werewolf movie, wasn't he? That we watched with
Late Phases. Yeah.
That was that geyser. The
that geyser.
Oh, you know July Geyser.
Nick Dichi.
Yeah. Yeah.
Is he the guy the guy with the the the wooden stick the vampires? Stay cl
Yeah.
Yes.

(08:04):
Yeah. I um
This is hard work sometimes.
I try living in my brain sometimes, honestly. So, it's weird. I go back and forth on Mark. I do in some respects find him f****** irritating. Why are you kissing that woman's foot?
Why are you doing that?
So, she was um Maxwell Cfield's stepdaughter.
Really?
Yeah.
Okay. God, they're all related in this movie, aren't they?
Yeah, cuz they spoofed all the budget on the soundtrack, so they were like Just just phone your cousin. I don't know.
Get somebody down here for a day.
Yeah. Dad, sorry. Mom, is stepdad there?
Yeah. I sort of go back and forth on Mark. Some in some respects I hate him. And then in other scenes, I'm like, "Oh, he's pretty fun." And uh I don't really know where I land with him. Overall, I find that quite confusing.
Is there anyone that you relate to
that I relate to? Deb.
In terms of character, Deb. Yeah.
Robin Tunny.
Yeah.
She shaves her hair.
The weird suicidal one. I I know what that says about me. Um, yeah, I always did. I always did. I' I have a huge huge soft spot for Deb.
I um I think the first and possibly only time that I can think of being exposed to Robin. That's a terrible one. I suppose that.
So, you were saying Robin Tony exposed herself to you.

(08:25):
I remember um I think first time I saw her was probably in the craft,
which was the year after this movie.
Yeah. Yeah, they must have been made really close together.
Yeah.
And obviously she shaved her head for real in this movie, which God, that must have been a nerve-wracking day. Like, you only have one go at that.
It's not like you can even like
glue it back on quick.
Yeah.
Take two.
Let's do a read through like a electric shaver with no blades in it.
Yeah.
You got to get it right.
M. But yeah, if you go back and watch the craft now, the wig is quite obvious.
Okay. I'm terrible. at spotting wigs. Unless they're middle-aged men and in which case I'm brilliant at spotting wigs
because if they're old and white I'm like that's probably a wig.
That's a to
that's a to Yeah. I think um I don't know if I really relate to any of the characters outside of the one that I hate. Uh unfortunately I'm embarrassed to say
just Joe.
I guess Joe to a degree. Yeah. Because he's sort of you get the impression that he's sort of sort of sick of everyone's s*** but he's sort of loves them all as well.
Oh yeah.
So maybe I do relate to Joe a bit cuz I'm maybe I'm that's a bit of how I feel about it as well.

(08:46):
Maybe you'd have felt differently if you'd seen it as a teenager
perhaps. Yeah, maybe.
I think something I find really interesting is I think this film really does benefit from that those rose tinted glasses.
Yeah.
Um because if you look at uh like the reviews on Letterbox, almost everybody who's giving it a crappy score are people who come to it now.
Yeah. And aren't forced to watch it every year.
Yeah. And haven't haven't given it chance to grow on them what you have.
Yeah.
And everybody who's given it like five stars, they're just like, "This was my favorite movie when I was nine."
Yeah, I guess. So,
so it definitely seems to be uh two very distinct camps of people who watch this movie.
Were we having a similar discussion last week in our Masters episode when we were talking about, you know, if I'd have seen Masters of the Universe now, probably still would have got something from it, but it wouldn't be
the film that I so uh like I look back on now with such fondness. I'm like I that's actually a really good movie is I mean it's s*** in places. Go and listen to that episode. It definitely has that if I had seen that now I don't think I would enjoy it as much as I do.
I suspect this is something that's going to keep coming up this season.
Yes, I suspect you're probably right with one notable exception that I didn't see until I was in my 20ies and I can't I can't tell you why I enjoy that movie. Actually, I can.
I know what you're talking about,
but we're not going to spoil that now. So, yeah.
And one that neither of us has seen.
Uh, yes. Yes.
So, that'll be interesting.
Yes.

(09:07):
But, um, yeah. So, who else have we got in terms of the characters because it's such a
big ensemble cast.
We've got baby baby Steven Tyler.
Yes.
Who was I guess everyone in this is kind of in their early 20ies.
I think Rene Zelwiger actually, sorry. Reie Zelwiger.
Re was she was uh she was older than I thought she was. She was like 25 or something in this.
So before we started recording, I actually did sit down and write down everybody's ages.
It's important to get get into this. Yeah, cuz there's certain plot points in the film as well that I want to want to talk about.
Okay, interesting. Um but yeah, these are the ages of the people in 1995,
the actors.
Yes. So not necessarily when it was filmed cuz I'm assuming that was probably 94,
possibly 95. Yeah.
But yeah, so in 199 Anthony Leaglia was 36.
Yeah, that tracks
horrified me. I still
looks about 36.
No, I know. But like imagine being imagine watching this from the age of 13, loving it as much as I do.
Sort of because I watched it at that age. I guess I can still get in the heads of the characters and then I watch it and to me he's still like the cranky old boss, but he's 6 years younger than I am now. It's horrifying. Yeah.
But yeah, obviously it makes sense when I take a step back.
Yeah.

(09:28):
Um Debbie Mear, who I know you like,
MVP.
Um was 31.
Yeah.
The hair wasn't real. Going back to wigs,
right? Yeah. I She did have unusual hair in this, didn't she? She's usually got like a long black hair situation going on.
Yes.
She doesn't space truckers anyway.
Yeah. The only thing I really know about Debbie Mazar I never know how to pronounce it.
I don't know either.
Is that she I don't know if she still is, but she was really good friends with Madonna,
right?
I think she was maybe in a couple of her music videos early on and she based her character of Jane on Madonna's assistant at the time.
I don't know who that was, but
no.
Quite a flattering portrayal. I think Jane's a pretty good character.
Is she though? Is she I mean, is she Does she have any character whatsoever? apart from looking like Debbie Mosar, which I'm fine with by the way, but like she she's sort of in it, then she's not, then she comes back and I don't really know why what's going on with that
because don't question it.
You're right. Okay.
Just don't just don't overthink anything. If you start trying to pick holes in this movie, we're done. It's not that kind of film.
Okay. Well, I just need to say to the rest of my notes. Then I mean I've got a lot a lot of notes to go through still.

(09:49):
Okay.
How old was How old was Tyler?
Live Tyler was um on the younger side of the cast. She was 18.
Oh, she was 18. Okay. Cuz she's meant to be 17 the character in the movie,
but she's she was actually 18. So very close to her actual age.
Yeah.
And the just the following year she's in Armageddon.
So 19. She's
Yeah. That's nuts.
Yeah.
Also romantically involved with somebody called AJ. You you the other day.
Yeah, Ben was It wasn't Sorry, it wasn't the following year. Armageddon is 98. So, it was 3 years 3 years after, but yeah, still she's she's still 21 and um she hooks up with a guy called AJ in Empire Records and then hooks up with Ben Affleck's character in Armageddon who is also called AJ. So, she only likes BS what are called Age, apparently.
A
fair enough. Everyone's got their preferences. I'm not here to judge.
Um but yeah, kind of a meteoric rise. Not not a pawn um for her. But cuz I think the only the only notable thing she'd done before Empire Records was um an Aerosmith music video. There's a very famous Aerosmith music video with her and Alysia Silverstone.
Okay.
Pre-Empire Records Pre- Clueless.
I don't think I know about this
that a lot of male fans liked for the wrong reasons.
Okay. I didn't know about Liv Tyler until Armageddon and I didn't know Eer Smith about a Smith until Armageddon either.
Really?

(10:10):
Yeah. Unfortunately, that f****** song was the first time I was exposed to Aerosmith and I f****** hated it.
So many people have had that as their wedding song
and it makes me want to die inside. I hate it.
I don't want to fall asleep cuz I miss you, baby.
I do want to fall asleep so I don't have to listen to this song. And I wonder why I relate to Deb. Oh my god.
Yeah,
the big suicidal one. Jesus. Speaking of uh Robin Tony was 23,
Johnny Whit who played AJ was 20,
right?
Rory Cochran c*******.
c*******. Yeah.
Uh was 23 as well. Ethan Embry was only 17.
Okay.
Renee Zelwagger was on the older side of the the cast. She was 26.
Oh, past it.
To be to be playing a teenager.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a stretch.
I mean, that's pretty normal. Like, it's weird. It's unusual to have um actual teenagers playing teenagers, especially back then.
Yeah. Yeah.
Too expensive cuz you got to pay for the school or whatever.

(10:31):
Yeah. Online like um onset tutoring and
chaperonis.
They can't do very long days.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can't exploit them anymore.
What is the world coming to?
Child you can't even do child labor anymore. No.
What a s*** hole.
Uh Maxwell Cfield was 35.
Oh, that's that's that's that one hits me harder than
the has been.
Yeah.
Yeah. Tell me about it.
Yeah.
And Brendan Ston III who played Warren B. was was 15.
I forgot he was called Warren Batty. I was looking up.
We never learn his real name.
Is it not Warren Batty? I thought that was the joke. His actual name is Warren Batty.
Are you sure?
I'm sure.

(10:52):
I was looking up the some of the cast on Letter Box the other day and I got to Warren Batty. I've already forgotten his real name.
Brendan Ston III.
Brendan Stexon. Right. I looked up his credits and it seems like he might have had the most successful career. Black Hawk Down.
Yeah, he's been in some big projects. Uh, Boys Don't Cry or he was a nasty piece of work in that film.
Yeah.
But yeah, he's he's gone on to have a pretty decent career.
Okay. I mean, obviously we spoke about Reie Zelwagger and she did that that movie where she's enormous apparently and she writes a book
and Colin Fur died or something. Spoilers possibly for for that. I I don't care. Um, Liv Tyler, she What's she done recently? I couldn't think of anything super recent, but obviously she went stratospheric off the back of Lord of the Rings.
Oh, right. Yes, of course she's in Lord of the Rings.
Arwin, I want to say
sure she's sure. I've seen one of those movies and I thought it was f****** boring. I'm sorry.
I know fantasy is not your thing.
And well, unless they're superheroes, which is fantasy, isn't it really? I don't Doesn't make any sense in my brain. I just I just find that first movie so hard to get through that when it get when it's finished like I'm not watching any more of this and there's 4hour versions of it. How much more f****** walking can you watch?
There is a lot of walking in fairness. Even the trees walk in that movie.
God, it's like watching paint dry. I'm sorry. Yes, it looks very nice and I'm sure that it's faithful to the books, but it's just not it's not for me. I'm sorry. I don't want to alienate people anymore. I already have.
No, I I think the one remaining listener is fine with it.
I feel the same way about Harry Potter. Some some huge properties just don't vibe with with everybody.
Yeah, I saw a couple of them. I even I I watched the first Harry Potter, I think.
Mhm.
Well, like when it came out cuz my sister was about the right age and I think we watched it as a family on VHS.
And then I think I was on a plane when the second one came out. Not at the same time as it came out, but around the same time as

(11:13):
Did you want to jump off?
And they Uh they sealed the door shut unfortunately. They do that on planes now
when they screen Harry Potter films.
But uh I think Yeah. And I think that's called the Chamber of the Secrets. And I watched that and I was like that was s***. And then I didn't see there's like eight or nine, right? Or 10 or something.
There's loads of them.
I think maybe seven, but seven might be in two parts.
So eight then?
Yeah.
And then and then I skipped like three or four, but people were like, "Oh, seriously, this one's so good. You're going to love it."
The same thing. I can't remember which one it was. Maybe it was called an Asacaban or something.
Right.
Uh and then I was like, "All right, well, let's try this then." And I I put it on for about 40 minutes and then they flew away in the car and I was like, "I can't watch this."
I didn't I just didn't care. I don't know what it is about it. Some like I don't know. Are they Is there too much joy in them or what is the problem? No one's heads explode.
I don't know. But I don't like them either.
Yeah. I don't Why we talking about Harry Potter?
I don't know. Let's go back to Empire Records.
So,
we can't very well talk about Harry Potter in a flop season, can we?
No. Well, we went from Lord of the Rings to Harry Potter like two of the most successful franchises of all time from Empire Records. And it's because Liv Tyler
because Live Tyler was in a Lord of the Rings movie.
So, this is a flop. What Why do you think this movie flops? Do is it 10 million feels like a lot of money for a start for this movie? For me, and I guess you touched on it earlier, but a lot of the movie A lot of the money would have gone towards licensing that

(11:34):
well
expensive music.
I'm not 100% sure because chat GPT did tell me
who knows everything.
Yeah. That um that the bud the reported budget doesn't necessarily include licensing fees for music. That that can be
a separate thing.
Yeah, I guess.
But again, depends how much stock you're putting in AI at this point.
Well, you Yeah, you could you could put things in different budgets like you have If you're making a film, a marketing budget can come from a different part. Can
Oh, yeah. The marketing budget can can outstrip the the budget of the film.
Yeah.
But look at Anora most most recently that was made for very little money like a few million I think
but they neon spent an astronomical amount of money on the marketing and the run up to the Oscars.
It's it's you can really do the accounting however you like. You know, you got it costs you x amount of money to make it then someone else is foot in the bill for the marketing but they the the production company might get back build for it at some point. So I think it just depends how much tax they want to pay.
Right. Non easily.
Exactly.
As little as they can get away with.
But so so potentially it could be 10 million without the licensing.
Maybe.
What the spending that on? They built this the set, right? The music shop was a set.
The set is one of the things I love most about this film.

(11:55):
It's a good set. Like you you said it at one point you think it was you thought it was Right. And I I wasn't so sure.
Like I I spent the the bulk of my life watching this film assuming it was a real record store because to me it looks so lived in.
Yeah, that's fair.
They did such a good job of set dressing.
Just just random things. Some of the posters of the bands that you might not necessarily have heard of. Stickers put haphazardly all over the place. Like the DVO lamp. I would I would sell a limb for that DVO lamp. I love it. or you could just pay 12 quid.
Or I could make one, you know, it's not beyond my capabilities. Um,
the set dressing like it is amazing. Like I look at the set and the only reason that I was skeptical about it being shot on location is the fact that the whole movie is shot there. Yeah.
So that would have I think that
it would have had to be like a defunct record store if it was
in which case you're dressing it anyway. So you might as well build a f****** set where you can build it to your specific requirements where you want the cameras to go and things like that. So, that was the only reason that I thought it was probably a set, but it does look very It does look good, but it doesn't look like 10 million to me. I The young cast are we not paying the cast that much money? So,
I mean,
nobody in Nobody in this film was a name. This was this was pre fame for everybody.
This is and well, this is post So, I married Married an axe murderer, Anthony La Paglia, who
and Debbie Mazar.
Was she in that
apparently? Oh, I don't remember her in that. But, uh, yeah, and he's not he wasn't a huge name back then, but outside of him, who are we paying all of that money to? I don't really know. Where did it go?
I don't know.
Set construction. I don't know. What's that costing? Say, say, say it cost them 3 million quid. You've got 7 million quid still. And it's 3 million quid on some uh stickers with a smiley face on a poster from bands. you've never heard of. Um I you know you got the sex set construction and you got the set dressing. Might say they spent another million quid on set dressing for for that that thing and props to that that thing that makes the the badges
catering. It's a lot of mouths to feed.
I've just realized I think where the budget went acid
potentially.

(12:16):
Yeah, I did hear that they rented accommodation on the beach for the cast.
They all had like neighboring sort of beachfront properties. Yeah, cuz it's filmed in California.
The travel and accommodation budget.
Yeah.
Is where the money went,
right? Okay.
And that included Acid.
Yeah. Um
various powders.
Yeah. Well, obviously the director, Alan Moy, kind of wanted his cast to feel like um to to feel like colleagues,
people who knew each other. Yeah,
that makes sense.
Um so they were encouraged to kind of fratonize in the run up to filming and during filming. Some of which went brilliantly, some of which didn't.
What What didn't go brilliantly?
So, there's a story that I read in an article maybe 10 years ago, so it's a little bit hazy, but something that always puzzled me is that in the credits there is a character called Andre, who is supposedly played by Toby Maguire.
Yes. Right. Yeah.
And I've seen this film God knows how many times at this point. I also own the special remix fan edition, which I hate.
Is that a long Is that a longer long?
It's a longer cut, but they just shoehorned in a bunch of scenes that were cut for good reason in my opinion.
Okay.
Um Lucas gets a bit more backstory at the beginning. Like you get a bit more motivation for why he's taking the money. Like

(12:37):
some of it's not terrible, but I much prefer the theatrical cut. And and there is no Toby Maguire to be found in this movie.
So he's credited. Yes.
But he's not in any of the movies. So he must have shot something. I guess that's that's the rules.
So, I think another reason that the budget was 10 million is because it sounds like they shot a lot of footage that wasn't used.
Oh, obviously back then shot on film,
more expensive to shoot.
Yeah.
Okay.
It was intended to be This is something that confuses me. I found in a couple of places the fact that it was supposed to be set over two days was referenced,
but I don't quite know how they were able to edit it down into one day given that the costumeuming doesn't change for any of the characters.
I guess technically it is two days because it starts off with Lucas who then does an overnight in Atlantic City and then drives back to the shop.
I guess so.
So I guess if you said there's more backstory at the start that was that's part of it.
Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.
Um which I guess would make sense cuz some people's complaint is that when the film starts it's as if you're already supposed to know who a lot of these people are.
Yeah,
I don't have that same complaint. I think the introductions are just fine
or, you know, absent, but it doesn't matter.
So, no Toby Maguire in anything,
but he he was filmed. And the story goes there was some drug taking behind the scenes. And I think because he was so young, because it was would have been one of his first roles, he was a little bit out of his depth. He was on I I want to say acid. And all I know is that Alan Moy found him in his uh like downstairs kitchen eating a bowl of cereal and freaking out,
right?

(12:58):
And it was just suggested that he go home.
Yeah, some people shouldn't do ketamine.
Yeah,
there there are some people that that are fine and some people should stay away from that stuff.
I think most people should stay away from it personally.
Uh sure. Um Toby Maguire I for some reason I'm thinking about that meme where he's crying as Spider-Man and that's the the the image that I'm thinking of
photoshopping a bowl of cereal.
Yeah.
And you're probably most of the way there.
I'm glad Toby Magguire's not in this movie. He's not my favorite. I find him a bit annoying if I'm being honest.
Is he not your favorite member of the p**** Posy?
Lucas Hearts.
We all know that it's Lucas Hearts. The boy from Witness Witness.
Witness. Yes.
Yes. I'd forgotten he was in the p**** posy. Uh that's that is interesting, isn't it? That he is credited in this film presumably got paid got a good holiday out of it
and some free drugs from the sound of things too many drugs and then um never did them again. Like he's been tetotable ever since, hasn't he? I think.
Uh sure.
I I genuinely don't know.
Okay. Well, that's what I heard, but
don't know much about the man. I don't love him as an actor, I'll be honest.
No, he's not my favorite sort of when he pops up in things outside of a Spider-Man movie that's probably got the word home in it. Uh, I'm not that pleased to see him

(13:19):
and I don't love those Spider-Man. We're pissing off everyone tonight, aren't we? We don't like Lord of the Rings, the original Spider-Man Remy movies.
You're just taking every opportunity to piss off on a tangent and bad mouth everything.
Yeah. Well, it's Rex Manning Day, you know. You got to speak your truth on Rex Manning Day. That's what it's all about. It's about wearing tight trousers, Freddy shirt, and saying that Spider-Man 3 is big pile of s***,
which it is.
Well, this that's cannon now. Yeah. Yeah, Topher Grace agrees with me and he was in it.
Um, yeah, I I don't know who who the other characters were that were written out, but I do know that the edit was kind of um bit of a butcher job. That's the rumor anyway.
Uh, what as in the 90minute version that we got?
Yeah. Yeah. The the one that the only one that you've seen the theatrical cut.
Theatrical cut. How long is the the longer edition?
It's not that much longer. Like It's funny because they've added a bunch of stuff, but they've removed a couple scenes as well,
which I don't love. Um, but yeah, apparently there was a good sort of 40 plus minutes of footage that was edited out which included three significant characters.
One of them being Toby Magguire.
One of them being Andre. Yeah.
Andre. Yeah, I forget Andre. That feels like the least Toby Magguire name of all time, doesn't it?
Peter is is about right for him.
Yeah, he's Yeah, he looks like a Peter. Yeah.
But but who what other characters were there?
I don't know. I don't know. And I don't know the actors.
Oh, okay. Okay.
I couldn't find any information on it, sadly.
Okay. So, why do you think that this flopped? Why did Why did this cuz this feels like it's out at a time in the mid '9s. We're just getting going with the Kevin Smith stuff, which I don't actually know if those movies were particularly successful financially. Obviously, some of them have cult status and some people like some of them, but

(13:40):
I mean, Clerks Clerk is a funny one because
it was made for 400 and it gross.
Well, he self financed and then Miramax bought it. So,
Oh, yeah. That that lovely company.
Yeah. The less said about that the better obviously, but at least Kevin Smith's kind of made reparations in that area.
Yeah. It's not his fault.
Even though Yeah. Even though he didn't do anything wrong. Um, but yeah, I I don't necessarily think it's a fair comparison because this was a big studio movie from the from the off. This was Warner Brothers.
Yeah, that's true. They spent 10 million. It's Warner Brothers. They spent 10 million quid on it. They had the backing for the budget.
If anything, this is a more of a Mrats situation,
right? Did Mrs. do a bit
tanked?
Okay.
Because the studio wanted Kevin Smith to write um like a runchy 80s style teen comedy and he he did his version and it just didn't go over well. Whereas with this,
um it's funny because when we watched it this time, I sort of pointed out to you there was there was a really egregious dub of when uh Joe clearly says f***, but it's dubbed over. I can't remember what it's dubbed over with, but it's a softer word.
Is it when he says buckethe head?
No,
I'm going to dub you in the edit bucket head or
banana head. He comes out with some banana head.
Some quite um flary.
I remember when I I was a kid, I used you remember you used to prank calls when you were a kid. I used to get up in the morning and get up. This is going to age me. But we had one of those telephones where you do the little turn the wheel. And I would just dial random f****** numbers until someone answered. I got someone answered and I'll go banana head and put bugger
like but I was four.

(14:01):
Yeah.
Anthony Pagley I was 36. He call someone banana head. You have no place calling someone banana head in your mid30s.
Well in his defense initially this was supposed to be an R-rated teen comedy but it sounds like the studio kind of got cold feet and opted for a PG-13.
Okay.
So I think that's what I some of the dialogue was softened a little bit.
I'm still I'm still trying to figure out why this flopped as much as cuz that's a very severe flop on a 10 million budget to make 250 grand.
How many screens was it released on? Did it have a marketing budget? Is some of it because it was toned down like it was shot to be a certain way, an R-rated film, and then they got cold feet and started to reduce it and make it more child friendly or teenage friendly, however you want to term it. Like What? Why did Cuz this isn't a weird one. I mean, it's not a great movie. Was it a critical response? Would that
I don't think the critical response was great.
So, was it like they screened it and people were like, "Not loving this, so they just kind of cut their losses, didn't put much marketing budget behind it, didn't release it on many screens."
I think that's that's where my money would go.
Yeah.
Because I don't know, it's a it's a funny one. I I know the critical response was was pretty bad when it was released. But it's it's one of those we talked about this recently. I I think potentially in the Thing show actually, but it's one of those where even just a couple years later, people were kind of going, "It's actually not that bad."
Yeah.
They were sort of already recconing some of their opinions about it.
I think I think as a this is very boring thing to say, but as a society, I think we more than ever kind of go with the flow and I guess it was the same then like a film will come out people will s*** I think we mentioned it earlier Ricky Soniki right when that came out people hated it we watched it and we're like it's quite funny actually we quite liked it
literally my review of that was just are you all cowards or am I a moron
yeah
like I'm I'm unsure
so I I feel like a film will get shhat on and other people you know everyone has their own opinion I'm not saying opinions are wrong but you are influencing by other people to a certain degree.
Could that have been the case possibly with this one? Ebert's saying it's a piece of s***. They're like, "Oh yeah, Eert said it's a piece of s***." So I actually I'm a 9year-old and I haven't got a fully formed brain or my own thoughts yet and and I'm a moron.
As we know, all 9year-olds were were watching Roger Eert back then.

(14:22):
Yeah, I was watching Barry Norman.
That was his core audience,
which is our equivalent. Um we only had Barry Norman. I never heard of Roger Eert until I was 32. I um Yeah. Is Is it like a little bit like the critics say that it's s*** so people also don't like it possibly there's a bit of that and then give it some some time to breathe and people are like oh actually it's not bad and then some people have their nostalgia goggles on like yourself and then I've just been beaten into submission having watched it four or five times. I don't think this is a bad movie.
I don't think it's a bad movie. I don't think it's a great movie. It's funny because
it's so difficult for me to be truly objective about this movie. I would say almost impossible for me to be objective about it. But in my research, I did troll through various Reddit threads. Um there was one on r/ I watched an old movie which made me momentarily depressed.
There was one on r/grunge. Like there were there were a bunch of threads about it. And the general consensus seems to be the people who love it love it for what it is. They accept it for what it is. They perhaps watch it at the right time. The people who dislike it tend to be people who come to it a little bit more recently. And a lot of criticism that I keep seeing is that it's a little bit soulless, which I don't connect with personally. I don't think that's true. I actually think this film has quite a lot of heart. Um
I think I'm with you. I think it does have heart.
And I think its heart is in the right place as well.
Yeah. I mean, it does that f****** annoying thing where they finish where everyone's dancing and having a good time.
Yeah, of course. But it's is a hangout movie and it is about a group of friends stroke family
and I I get that I soulless I think is a bit strong
I think I think an extension of that is the criticism is also that it's sort of smacks of studio involvement like it it kind of reeks of this is a studio movie this is kind of um these are their stock characters like the the studious one the s***** one the stoner guy in much the same way as the characters were stock characters in The Breakfast Club. Obviously, it's a comparison that's already come up, but it seems like the most obvious one, and I can get that some of the characters are a little bit two-dimensional, but I think that's more to do with the fact that we're not given a whole lot of time to really get to know them.
Yeah, you you're not getting a bunch of um character development in this for
we get to know enough.
I think it depends on the project. I'm not looking at this movie. I guess now what having watched it a few times, I'm not looking for great character motivation. I don't really know how I would feel about a longer cut where we get more of Lucas. I think that could f*** off to be honest with you. I'm happy with I'm relatively happy with what it is. I don't love this movie, but I am coming round to it. And I think part of that is that it's short, it's breezy, the characters sometimes are likable, but even if they're not, Even if Mark's kissing the foot, it's very quickly over and it's on to the next scene. And
I wondered if you're going to talk about some of the problematic stuff.
Well, I mean, I get the impression that those two knew each other. Was is that something possibly that was cut cut down like because he's sort of hanging around the woman listening to some music and going in to kiss her when she's not aware of it, which he shouldn't do,
which is assault.
Which is assault. Yeah. And then he like picks up her leg and kisses her on the foot, which is assault. and also super weird.
Yeah. And weird.
Yeah. I think it's funny because as much as I love this film, I can see it for all its flaws. I'm not

(14:43):
I'm not blind to the flaws. There is a bunch of stuff that's wrong with it. The pacing is actually I think the pacing is pretty good.
I think the pacing is all right.
I think it's pretty zippy.
Yeah.
But it is a mess. Like the whole film is all over the shop.
I just I just think that there seems to be a bunch of r random things that people do and don't really make much sense. And
but I do not think that's largely because we don't know them. So there isn't the context.
It's like the the owner of the store is coming in like I just want to sell this gaff now. But like before you wanted it to be a toilet shop and and I don't who are you
bedet?
Yeah. And it's just like oh you're just here to be the the man as they say.
Mhm.
And that's about it. And I guess I'm just I I I'm at a Maybe the first time I watched it was like, well, that doesn't make any sense. But now I'm just like, whatever. We're meant to hate him, and that's fine. It's nearly over, so it's all right.
Touching on that, actually, that that is another complaint I've seen online. Um, obviously, it's not something that occurred to 13year-old Sarah, but I think there was some push back from people because it was a big studio 10 million budget movie that was sort of extolling the virtues of fighting the the big guys.
Yeah.
Like dependent stores over uh franchise franchised b******* basically.
I love I love that point. You're so right. Like if it was a Kevin Smith film that was made for five grand on credit cards and it had the same message
um
I guess it felt hypocritical to a lot of people.
It is.
Yeah,
it is. Mr. Mr. Brothers was he paid for this movie and he's it's

(15:04):
Do you think there's a man called Warner Brothers?
Yeah. Mr. W. Brothers,
right? Okay. Or were there two? Was it like the Mitchell brothers? There was more than one of them. The Warers.
Were they literally brothers?
Yeah.
And they were called the Warers.
I got a clue.
I don't f****** know. They're dead anyway, probably. Ain't they? Who owns Warner Brothers now anyway? I bet whoever owns it is not called Warers. It's probably called Jeff. Um I don't I don't know. I keep thinking of Batman v Superman for some reason. I think that's because it's a Warner Brothers movie and about how much the the studio carved up that movie and it ended up being a piece of s*** and then they released an extended version which was slightly better and made more sense. And I wondered if we would ever get a version of Empire Records where they do a version that makes more sense. I don't know. Um or should they just remake it?
I No.
I Is that because you're so fond of this one?
Yeah.
See, I think this is kind of a perfect example of something that should get a remake because I love the sentiment of it. I love the the kind of the David together family. David versus Goliath. Yeah,
definitely always root for the underdog in things.
Uh I think the cast are pretty pretty solid. But obviously if you did a remake then it' be a be a different cast and I don't really know who it would be because I don't know many young actors these days. But um
I think the only thing they could really do to improve on it is um implement a more diverse cast because this is the whitest movie of all time.
Yeah. That's fair. I do know I think there was a musical. I think I
There was a musical. We keep covering films that are adapted to musicals.
I It was um I think that the the person who wrote this, was it Carol Hiken?
Hiken. Yeah.
Hiken. I think she also wrote the musical. Okay. Some
I I could be wrong on that. I I did watch something for 3 minutes and then got bored and switched it off on YouTube. But

(15:25):
I know she only wrote three movies and I own two of them.
Uh has one of them got River Phoenix in?
It does.
Is it called Crimea River?
No. Okay. But yeah, I think I think this is a perfect example of a remake where I like the concept of it. I think you had some good ideas, wasn't executed brilliantly. Let's remake it. I think that's I think I would be up for that. But and also maybe now as well, I would if it was if I was uh if I was the the person in charge of the money, I would probably say, "Well, let's just do uh let's do it in the ' 90s again." But now it would be a period piece and you would already have that built-in nostalgia. So, my cynical brain is going, "Oh, let's do the cash grab. We've done Stranger Things now. We've moved on from the 80s. Now we're in the '9s, baby. Let's get some skateboards and some grunge." People love that s***, don't they?
I am not opposed to that idea. But the thing that sort of gives me pause is that a lot of films that are being remade from that kind of era, um, like Mean Girls, which was a little bit later, granted.
Yeah.
Um, She's All That, They remake She's All That.
They remade She's All That, but I think it was called He's All That.
Oh, yeah. The kid from the Karate Kid show was in it, wasn't he?
Sure.
Kobe Kai.
Um
I think so.
But so the only thing we've got to compare it to are things like that. And I think there's if they remade Empire Records, there's no way I would enjoy it
for the simple reason that it would be targeted towards
who I was 30 years ago.
Yeah.
And that is the Tik Tok generation. So, it would be dreadful.
Yeah. Okay. I I think that there's there could be something there. If you make it a period piece and you have the same sort of sentiment, a similar similar but obviously different cast maybe,
but they just have like they bring back like Rory Cochran and he'd be the owner of the record store. It would be that sort of like winky winky.

(15:46):
Yeah.
I No.
What you mean like a like a You're talking more like a legacy sequel situation?
Yeah.
Yeah. No, I don't. I'm not saying that. I'm saying just go for a full remake. Don't reference the original in any way. Don't Toby Magguire is not allowed anywhere near it.
I think remake it, but completely swerve genres and have Joe snap and murder everyone.
All right.
And they're having to hide out in the store.
Stuck in a place. Murder Empire murders.
Yeah.
Okay, let's go for that.
I mean, we'd still watch it.
Yeah. But um but yeah, I I don't I don't see my view on the film changing very much if it hasn't already.
No,
I always wondered if I'd grow tired of it. Like, I'm middle-agged now. It doesn't necessarily speak to me like it used to. Obviously, there was a bunch of reasons I loved it. It was just nice to see weirdos and misfits represented on screen and, you know, alternative people that weren't just shoehorned in there to be the butt of the joke.
Yeah.
So, it was nice. It sort of It sounds really cheesy and a bit s***, but I kind of felt a bit seen
when I was that age. And yeah, I guess just the the lasting memory of of seeing it so many times when I was a kid and celebrating Rex Manning Day every year. Like
I don't I can't see there being a time in my life where I don't love this movie.
Well, listen, say no more.
More. I get it. I get it. I've got Lord knows I've got my favorites that I saw as a teenager. Most of them have got Will Smith blowing people's heads off. But um yeah, there's something about watching movies when you're a teenager when you're such a fan of films like it's just uh even if they're not very good, there's just something about them that you can't escape.

(16:07):
Mhm.
And uh I get it. I get it. And unfortunately, you're bringing me round to this one as well.
I never saw this happening.
Me neither.
I'm so so happy.
We're getting to the point now it's like next year I'll be like Manning Day soon.
Let's watch the the extend did.
I've haven't seen it. I'm kind of curious.
Maybe next year we can watch it on VHS.
Yeah, we do own it on VHS.
Several copies of this film. Yeah.
You got the two versions on um DVD.
VHS. Is there a blue Blu-ray version of this yet?
I don't know if there was one released in the UK,
but I really want somebody to do like a really nice special edition.
Yeah,
that would be fantastic.
If there if there was a release if there was a sniff of a release, I would definitely pre-order it for you.
This is Definitely something I think you would want if the Second Sight did a
they're more of a horror sort of situation, aren't they? But if someone like that did one an arrow or whatever, then
yeah, I I would seek this out for you. I'm amazed that they haven't.

(16:28):
Yeah, even like do a a double double edition of Alan Moy movies and include pump up the volume as well.
Oh yeah, that's one that I watched, isn't it? Yeah, I f****** Christian Slater was annoying in that. There something about Moy and and making um really irritating characters.
So, you got anything else that you want to say about Empire Records before we announce what we're doing in the next episode?
I don't think so. No, I It's sort of hard for me to want to shut up about it. So, I think maybe now is the time to draw a line under it.
Okay.
Lest I waffle on for another hour.
All right. So, I I'm guessing that you're pretty excited for the next show. It's one that Have you in this movie.
No,
it's back to me.
I'm so angry at you.
It's It's back to me. And for next week's show, we're doing another John Travolta movie.
Why do you keep doing this to me?
It's our third John Travolta movie.
And it's not just any John Travolta movie, is it?
No, it's the one about Scientology. It's um Battlefield Earth. You're
I had to buy this on DVD cuz it's not streaming anywhere. I had to spend like two quid on this.
I'm so I'm so annoyed.
Barry Pepper's finest moment. Maybe
he was in Band of Brothers, wasn't he?
You can't call that Barry Pepper's finest hour. Battlefield Earth was nobody's finest hour, surely. Uh,
no. He'll run Hubbards, maybe. But he was he dead by then? We We'll talk about it next week, maybe. Yeah.